Vanessa Estelle Williams

Melrose Place resident and fitness instructor Rhonda Blair is on the pod! 

 

Vanessa Estelle Williams joins Courtney, Laura, and Daphne to talk about her time on the first season of MP! From her audition process to how her character developed throughout the season, the lack of Black writers on the series, and the devastation she felt after being fired after season one without warning. 

 

Vanessa also talks about sharing her first onscreen kiss ever with Néstor Carbonell, what she did after leaving Melrose Place, and a surprise call from Doug Savant! 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Still the place with Laura Layton, Courtney thorn Smith.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
And Daphnews and Niga and iHeartRadio podcast, right and it
is exciting and Nasa Williams.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
That's a Estelle Williams, right, you know these floating initials
that were erroneous and wrong.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
I read about that, but there was a legal erroneous
settlement between you two. Sad they just said you both
could use Williams. Right.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Well, those Williams. Was the thing is I was first,
and so they should have made her change her name,
and she was this light and then everyone was making
mistake and giving me the L and then and then paramount.
At some point I think it was like some clerk
put an a initial was being known as Vanessa and

(01:01):
all these like floating initials l A, you know, it.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Was all wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
And then I just of late, just after the pandemic,
I was like, you know what, I'm just going to
do all three of the name of my My mama
gave me Vanessa Estelle Williams.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
It's gorgeous.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
I mean it was Vanessa.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
You look insane, gorgeous. I walked in fell over looked better.
I really full of resentment. I'm trying to cover us.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Because beautiful, and I mean we're fine.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
That's true, We're fine, but you.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
Mycular fine not fine fine like fine wine like.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
But honestly, the work has been while they were setting up,
it's been trying not to talk.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
So now we can really talk about everything.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
Yeah, we've been, we've we've been like we knew each other.
I mean, listen was the beginning my like real professional
career in terms of television. So, I mean, we go
back so far I couldn't. I was watching the episodes
last night, you know, the one we're going to discuss
only and then dipping into like the other episodes, and
I was like, oh my gods, we were such babies. Yeah,

(02:15):
it seems so long ago, but not that long ago.
It seems like maybe ten years ago. We do have
the children in the matter.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
We're just talking about how much fun it would be
to have all our kids in a picture. And then
that's to do it like a Melrose picture, like all
in white.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
And a staircase. Now that's my focus.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
That's what I want to have that happen on a
staircase like Dynasty, that outside staircase. I wonder if we
could recreate it, remember that picture. In the first season,
you got.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
A New York that gap ad. You know, we had
Annie Lieberwitz, that Annie Lee Express. So I like that.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Somebody call so do you remember your audition process?

Speaker 3 (02:59):
You can, of course. So they were like, you know,
I'm new to town, right, I've done a lot of
theater in New York. I had done a movie, and
so I was like, let me come out to LA
and see what's you know, because I'm New York and
die hard. That's why it's definitely you thought I was
still living there because I whenever there, I dig in
and yeah, the places and I you know, I'm just now.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
It was your movie New Jack New Jack City, New
Jack City.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
There's a bunch of them, right.

Speaker 4 (03:24):
Movie.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
Yeah, It's that launched my beginnings. And I came here
to just check out LA, you know, because I wasn't
coming so many of my other active friends had come
on series, you know, the audition to New York and
then got flown out to LA and I was the
kind of the trajectory that was in my head. Then
I had a breakup with a guy who I adored
and loved, and I was like, let me get out

(03:45):
of here.

Speaker 1 (03:46):
We don't test l but I'm still too small court
and I was just going to test the water.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
So I booked Candy Man all right, was my second,
and I was like, whoo, they like me, you know,
you know, I'll give it a year. So I sublet
my place to Erika Alexander, another wonderful actress friend of mine,
her boyfriend, and two other roommates of his who were
also actors, still living in New York. Then I came
out here, stayed with a girlfriend, stayed and got a place,

(04:17):
and then did Candy Man, and then I started auditioning.
Actually also met my you know, would be husband, so
he was my boyfriend. And the audition process was the
regular Sandy Gale, go see the casting director. Then I
had a callback with her. Then it was like go
see the producers and go see go meet Aaron.

Speaker 5 (04:37):
Okay, so you know, it was like you know spelling,
it's like in the building and it's like you know
all the things, and you know, my role, I think
was originally it was going to be like sort of
the same kind of nine O two one oh set up.

Speaker 3 (04:51):
We're like a Jewish girl, and so like they said,
let's go black with the role, and so I was like, okay,
you know, so.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
So were you sitting in a room out in the
waiting room with all these.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
Like jewish the other time they got to me, you know,
it was like yeah, okay, but I just remember meeting
Spelling and he was so dear and lovely and kind.
And I did my little to do and my little thing,
and you know, I got home. Man they called me,
was like you got it. I was like wow right away,
right away. Yeah, as I recall as memory serves, I

(05:24):
don't really really remember, but I don't remember it being
a very long time before finding out that I had
a series, and that was like and.

Speaker 6 (05:30):
It wasn't sorry, it was part of your audition or
part of your role description to be a dancer, and
did you have to do any of that?

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Like did they want to make sure you dance?

Speaker 3 (05:41):
I didn't have to dance. I mean, thank goodness for
the dance double Okay, So I was I was always
an actress who moved well with a dance is hard
in my next life. So it was really perfect. But yeah,
that was part of the thing.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Sold it really well because we were questioning.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
There were some episodes were like no, I think that's
all of aerobic stuff like the teaching that I can
handle that yeah, the touch that classic seven eight Yeah,
but the pirouettes and the you know, I could do
a part. But you know, so I was watching it
last night and I was like, oh, yeah, this is
a devil. Those parts are great.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, so you watched the episode was you and your Rival?

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (06:21):
That was fun so much. Is a great, great friend
of mine. I almost cast her in the in a
movie that I direct. No, we knew each other, like
all the sisters kind of knew each other, you know,
back and forth in auditions and stuff. It'd be always like,
you know, little mini reunions. Hey, how's it going for you?

(06:41):
You know, so I knew Gina. I knew Gina. It
was great that she's Mark, She's she did all of
her dancing stuff.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
She's a real dancer.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah. Do you happen to remember the scene they had
you auditioned with for Melrose at all? Or no?

Speaker 3 (06:54):
It was it was a scene with Doug. It was
a met Matt Ronda scene, as I recall, because you
guys were like, oh yeah, we were we were we
were bombed. You guys were best the best?

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah, wow, Okay, and so wait, I want to go
back to right before. So first of all, you came
out here and you got Candy Man with my friend
Virginia Madsen, right.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
Oh my god, Virginia was the best, the best.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
It was Virginia Madson Casey Lemons, who I knew from
New York and we were we had such a great time.
I wasn't even shooting in Chicago, but they flew me
out just to like meet the woman who my my
role was sort of modeled on. We were in Cabrini Green,
which was still standing at the time, and it was
so fascinating and we created the whole project that looked like,

(07:42):
you know, a prison, and so we met the woman.
She was so beautiful. Her home was immaculate, like you know,
it looked like a prison going through all these like
you know, metal doors and stuff like that, and then
inside it was like bright and folded towels and it
was so really really wonderful. And and Virginia and Casey
had seen that they were shooting there, so I was there.

(08:03):
I mean, Bernard was so beautiful, and that whole process,
like my entry to entredeed to Hollywood. In the business,
I'm seeing the Hollywood side because I had done several
plays in New York. You know, I was a full
on actress when I moved out here. Yeah I was
a girl and girl lady, but still like naive and
New Green Green too. It was like starting again, you know,

(08:27):
going from the theater world and commercials to to the
Los Angeles, the La Hollywood kind of like you know,
every you know you could. I remember losing a job
because I wore like my lear tards and tights. I
was in rehearsal mode and they, you know, I'm like
theater like yeah, got it together and leg warmings probably

(08:48):
in New York, but yeah, but I was in my
all black. I was doing to Jamie Timmy Timmy Fox Show,
and they replaced me. They were like, oh no, they
would come through, the producers would come through the redthrough.
I mean they still paid me, which was lovely. I
was like, okay, free money, I'll go on a vacation
precisely precisely. But it was.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Because they were confused that you weren't dressed in a
way they understood.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
Well.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
I mean I auditioned and I came in like, you
know whatever, but now we're doing the work.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
The work of rehearsal.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
Rehearsal I didn't know it was like every and this
was a valuable lesson, right that I learned because it's like, oh,
you're always auditioning because at any time they could replace
you at any time. It's like you're always into LA
was very like what it looked like. And you know,
I'm from New York and it's you're growing your character.
So it was like a whole different mindset than how

(09:34):
I grew up. I mean I learned. I went to
Performing Arts High school, so I had been studying the
craft since fourteen, and I studied with like teachers Tony
Absen and people like who were about like you could
change the world with theater, and you can, you know,
So what we were doing was was a vocation, not
just like oh your pretty face and you know it's so,

(09:55):
isn't it.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
You come out here. I mean I didn't start in
New York, but I did a lot of acting classes
and I did Beater, and it's like it's a whole
other game out here. It's a game.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
It's different. It definitely is machine or some sort.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
But so then after I watched some clips of your
New Jack City and I was so was that was
right before Melos, Yeah, like right before I was then
All Star cast.

Speaker 3 (10:18):
It was so like amazing. I was so green on
that it set too. We had a twenty year reunion.
I think it's twenty years, could be thirty.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
Whatever the numbers. The numbers loud. It was a while
said it was thirty.

Speaker 3 (10:31):
Yes, okay, sorry, what seemed like yesterday? But we triedbeca
film festival did a reunion and so Mario and Michael,
Michelle and I were among the cast members that were
there to screen the movie again. And I had my
kids there and it was just so so marvelous and

(10:52):
I was green, green as hell, and we're doing the
like the the talk back, and I tell the story
of how Mario was like, you want to be in
this you want to be this movie because I didn't
know about a three show, like staying in the frame
of the movie. But it's not like they tell you,
oh that our frame is here if you go out there,
you know, so he's you can in there again. I
was like, oh, okay, so yeah, it was. It was

(11:12):
a new experience, but it was like you know, in
terms of like the one thing after another after another,
after another.

Speaker 2 (11:18):
So that did that prime youth. Sorry, I don't want
to hug the questions, but I came from films too,
and when I started doing our TV show, it went
so fast? Were you ready for how fast these scenes go?
Like there's not time to prepare?

Speaker 3 (11:30):
Right, See, I had only done the one movie, right,
So I remember Amy feeling like, oh wait, this is
way too fast. I'm a film actress. I've got time
to like just my performance, get my close up. And
it was like and so for me, it wasn't that
same transition because I had done so much theater where
it's like you heard you rehearse and then you know,

(11:51):
talked to bottom. So I didn't have that same sort
of uh in terms of like how moving.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
So yeah, it's a big difference. The time in between
the film is like hours. The time in between is
maybe twenty minutes.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
Twenty minutes exactly.

Speaker 6 (12:07):
But just the assumption that you know all the things
like that you're saying, like the two over, like I
mean I came to Melrose as a new person too,
and like the assumption is that you're going to know
those things, and so I remember that feeling of like
all these terms that were thrown at me was like, hey,
I'm sorry, what matching?

Speaker 3 (12:27):
What exactly? Exactly? So yeah, but you learn real quick, Yeah,
real quick. You learned really quickly. And then everyone was
so kind. Everyone was so I mean. So we were
talking earlier about how Courtney and I were like, you know,
like this episode, you're up to you guys, haven't.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah we have Oh no, you two. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (12:45):
We always can get through our recaps because we keep
wanting to have our guests on.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
What I think it's fun about watching it again from
the beginning is I'm watching us all become friends, like
you watch it in real time like in the beginning,
and then all of a sudden, we'll see scenes where
we're actually like looking at each other, they're laughing when
we're all together. Remember how much fun those scenes were.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
The cart cart I remember my apartment, like the Thanksgivings,
like all the all those scenes are just like ye
so crazy shooters. You know that was our hang you
know we had like the cheers, Yeah, you know, we
had all of the television tropes and and it's so
funny like now like knowing, oh that's a theme they introduced,

(13:24):
and I say they carried it over in fact, I
noticed like an episode we're talking about where it's just
call your mother or mother love or something on the
back of on the which was the b story with
with Grant and his mom, you know. So it was
just like I was like, oh, look at that.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
You know, I didn't know that kind of thing. I
know you did it right.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
I had no idea, Oh this is tying into that.
So like it was just wonderful training ground because we
did so many episodes. We did thirty episodes.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, unheard us. You're just nowadays.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
You're lucky, are you?

Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (14:04):
Really it was amazing.

Speaker 6 (14:07):
Do you have any like favorite story arcs that that
you got to participate in or anything that really wait?

Speaker 3 (14:16):
Oh hello, who is it?

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Is it? Doug? He dog?

Speaker 3 (14:18):
I think it's for you. I just called your name,
honey beautiful.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
That's hilarious. You too, You too?

Speaker 3 (14:36):
You have adult We will that we all have adult
children and married children like that is like wow, wait, okay, okay, yeah,
they want me to hold us here? Okay can you
hear yes, darling, I.

Speaker 4 (14:54):
Last time we were together, like we had kids in school.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
Are kids?

Speaker 4 (14:59):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (15:00):
Yes, Laura and I were just saying how our kids were, right,
hold on Let's see, we were both in the shop.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Great because the fans remember those two faces a lot.

Speaker 3 (15:11):
We were talking about. Laura was asking me what were
some of my favorite scenes, and I was talking about
all of the scenes we had together. We were such chums.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
We were such.

Speaker 3 (15:22):
Buddies on the show, on and off screen. It was
so great. Oh did you freeze?

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Okay, there you go?

Speaker 3 (15:29):
So okay good.

Speaker 4 (15:32):
I had all of that. I had all of that
humiliating dancing to do with you.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
You were coming to the class, you know, because you
had to keep the body right. Okay, No, they cut it.
They cut it so we all looked good. We all
looked so good. That's so great.

Speaker 4 (15:51):
You haven't lost the second of your kindness.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
Oh sweet, that's so funny. And I'm still dancing. I
still I love to dance. I still go. I go
to Mama Shelter, you Utopia Tribe, these and I keep
up with all the DJs, so like, yeah, like I
love dancing. I love it.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Wow are you living?

Speaker 3 (16:11):
No, I'm mostly in LA but I get back all
the time because my oldest Omar is he graduated from
Cooper Union and now he's working as an artist.

Speaker 4 (16:19):
There.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
We're having an exhibition for him and you'll all be invited.
So next month.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
So and then my my youngest who's turning twenty one,
which is crazy because I was pregnant with him on
Soul Food. He's turning twenty one next month and he's
at Chapman and and oh my god.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah that's yeah, that's great. Yeah, you know he is.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
He's a filmmaker, singer. He's like like, he's making videos.
All I couldn't. Yeah, I didn't want to. I didn't
want to, Like I just got out of the way
and let them show me what they wanted to do.
You too, How long is your show running? I want
to come see it.

Speaker 4 (16:59):
Oh god, are until November three? It's been a good time.
So it's great to see you.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
Have so much to talk about. Thanks for calling call.

Speaker 3 (17:15):
I mean it was so like perfect because I just
went to your name. Did you get cute?

Speaker 2 (17:23):
You love you? That's so great. Miss.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
We gotta do this like offscreen too.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
That's great. I didn't. That was a total surprise. Well
to me. Yeah, that great, Thank you. He didn't want
to miss the opportunity to say hi.

Speaker 3 (17:42):
I love it. You have a great chemistry, you know,
there was so much chemistry going around. You and Andrew
got together and we were like we saw it coming.
But yeah, Doug and I was like, you know, my
my TV husband to like in that in that we
were just such good friends. I mean, that was what
we was saying, Like it was such a beautiful way

(18:03):
to begin, like, you know, this really Hollywood career because
even though it got really real and really hollywood, you know,
we saw and the thing is, we saw things coming
where people would like do whole through five episodes and
then be replaced or have to like do their whole
episode like Amy had to do all of this voiceover

(18:23):
in a different you know, twing on the accent. You know,
So it was it was really real. But the day
to day and and the writing and all the things,
you know, people, it was a lovely place to work.
It was a really really loved.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
So so when Amy when they decided to get rid
of the accent, which was a good call because it
was uncomfortable after did they have her then you said
they had her voice double whole show just had to.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
Read dub whole shows Like I don't I don't call
how many episodes, I just recall how TD it was
for her.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Wow, baby, that's in a regular accent and just herself.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
Did they they took the accent away, right, okay? They
so yeah, So she had to do the whole thing
over like episodes and episode maybe it was like maybe
two or three.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Wow, that's so much many wow.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yeah, you know what it's like in an eight R room.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Oh, it's so awful.

Speaker 6 (19:21):
Yeah, because your your characters were roommates through the time
that she departed the show.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
She was around episode thirteen, right.

Speaker 3 (19:30):
You know, I guess yeah, because how did they write
her off?

Speaker 2 (19:34):
I think she's probably going to get an acting gig.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
And yeah, it was still there was a false move
out that I that I saw in my little my
little head home recasp yees to get back.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
The fans are probably listening, going, I can tell you
what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You storyline of
that episode of like being annoyed by this actress roommate ring.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
True, it was, it did. And you know the thing,
this is what's so funny about watching the show. It
was so like innocent, like these times were so instant,
even though it was like crazy times and we thought
we were cutting edge and we were right. We were
but if you're looking back now with this guy, it
was so so innocent and what we especially that time

(20:23):
on the show too. Again, I always say the thirty
something was really really popular, and tell how it was
sort of relate to me and my agent and stuff,
that this was going to be a twenty something take,
you know, where like they're all these actors and young
people and they're starting their lives. We're thirty something was
like in the middle of family and you know, they're
in their thirties and their in careers and whatever, and

(20:45):
so we were gonna do the same thing but in
our twenties, right, So like all this acts and stuff
like that. And then they after the first season, they
were like, you know what, we're gonna go to the
the winning Aaron Spelling formula and sexies. Yeah, TV Night
and tv TV.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
So that's what we're really noticing that it's a comple
We were like, what sure are we?

Speaker 1 (21:03):
I know, I remember that, like it wasn't a big
big fanfare when we were released, and then it really
didn't do well because it was sort of this sweet show.
But I want to ask about that episode because so
the episode when when Sandy gets a job and your character,
and I wonder how you were directed because your character
is just annoyed with her from the like she says,
pass me this sault. You're like, oh, miss actress. They

(21:27):
were like you just got to go after her for
I'm sure you're like, she just got a job.

Speaker 3 (21:30):
I know, right, you know, it was it was a
disconnect because that was never how I acted in real life,
you know. And and I you know, I guess they
was just looking for the drama and like this is
how people would act, and I guess this would be
more interesting to watch. Yeah, you know, and I think again,
like they were tweaking my character, like they didn't really know.
There were no black writers on the show, so it

(21:52):
was like there was not a real voice of anyone
who like what had Ronda's experience, And like I said,
they were finding the characters and figuring out, you know,
just how she would respond. So I, as the actors,
was trying to find some levels to it and whatever.
But you know, you can't control like what they cut,
you know, how it gets edited together and what point
they were trying to make based on whatever the other

(22:14):
storylines were too, And so you know, I just I
could justify you know watching it, well, you know, the
balloons come in and then here's this like selfish girl.
Oh I got to run out to my Holly party.
And then what I thought when I was watching it too,
was you know anything it happened up in that party,
Like she's going out without her roommate. Like I was like, no,
she would have taken her girl, you know, or some

(22:35):
friend with her to make sure. Now do we know
what Hollywood is with?

Speaker 2 (22:40):
I mean, don't you think it's interesting here in twenty
twenty four looking.

Speaker 7 (22:43):
Back at how innocent innocent and how things we didn't
think at the time didn't notice just like, Okay, well
I got to say I did love those hats, though
I kept those hats.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Did you get to keep from.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
Some of those pieces were my own? Occually was? And
but you know it was very you know I was like, oh,
that's still my style, but colectic off the shoulder, Yeah,
you had a real style, You had a real she
was She was really great. And I think that the
costume people really pulled from what was going on in
the day. You know, all of that, you know, leisure

(23:20):
wear as out of wear, you know, the tights, the
leg warmers and the button always combat boot, always combat.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
Boot, right.

Speaker 3 (23:27):
So it was fun.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
It was so you did have a say in that
with the wardrobe person say like, bring you things that
you liked.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
Mostly they brought me things that like in and you know,
occasionally I was like, oh I have this, and you know,
it was like a collaboration and certainly all like the wraps,
the African raps, and you know, because my whole thing
was like my hair is natural, this how it comes
down my head. You know, when I got to Hollywood,
every black girl had to weave down to her next
So it was radical to be on a TV show

(23:54):
with like little tiny butting locks and you know, twist
out and just like you know, here I am like
this is beautiful too. You know, I've always felt like
politically conscious and you know I call myself a naturalistu
og the og huh yeah, because there's that whole movement
of natural hair, and you know, being not having to
keep up with any other kind of standard beauty as

(24:16):
a Ronda was really killing that.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
Well, that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
That really wasn't ahead of your time because that just
came back up a few years ago. Ye were so
far ahead of time.

Speaker 3 (24:24):
Was kudos to them for embracing it. This is what
I'm saying that I got hired like that. You know,
it was really they were really moving the needle and
really conscious of it. Darren was really great to you know,
as we go to talk about that, you know, the
aftermath kind of episode or where I read an initial
draft and I was like, Ronda can't say, you know,

(24:44):
I know that they're black people, say those people, I said,
but you know, Ronda can't. Ronda can't as much as
she's out of touch with baby, her community and she's
been in this bubble and in a suburban bubble and
all our friends or you know, mostly white people, you know,
she can't. She can't really say, she can't really disassociate
hers so much. Like I was like, I didn't want
my myself and my character to be confused that this

(25:07):
would somehow be like my point of view. So I
was like, yeah, she can. She can say that, but
she can't point over there like these people are different
than her. And so it turned the whole gist of
the story. I was so grateful, Oh you expressed that,
and then they that Darren, Darren heard me. I had
a whole little meeting with you do oh.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
I did. So what was the script originally?

Speaker 3 (25:29):
What ie the vibe? I can't remember precisely, but I
went in there and I talked about that that that
I didn't want to like be so out of it, right,
that I didn't want ron to Chart to be so
out of it that she also was saying those people
over there.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
So let me just for our audience. You didn't see
it because not everyone follows along, but this is the
episode where it's the same year as the Rodney.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
What's the same year exactly? Because I was I was watching,
I said, let me see when did this happen? And
when did we shoot this? So the started and the
verdict happened in May of ninety two, right, and we
and this show that episode aired in September, right, so
it was fresh.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
So that episode what happened in the episode?

Speaker 3 (26:13):
So in the episode, you know, Ronda, well Billy comes
back and he's gotten robbed, and you know, I was
so glad they cut away because I was like, what
happens to be like, how's this happening? And we're all
all of the whole you know, home crew is like concerned,
like what happened? And he's just like, yeah, I got
you know whatever, the car got robbed, but he just
got robbed. But there's not a scar on him, There's

(26:33):
not anything. And it was like a dangerous time because
you know, the riots had happened, all of this angst
about the policing of those of our neighborhoods and everything
was really at the fore. It was really really you know,
volatile time.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah, and he was down in South Central.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
He was dropping of a lady in South Central and
then his car gets robbed and like it's kid's cab
gets like you know, bashed in. But he did. They
just take him for his money, right, and then what
else happened to hell.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
You're talking about the scene when he comes back and
he said, I'm not going to go down there again.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
Right, It's like he makes some sort of he makes
some sort of deflection about those kinds of people. Yeah, yes, right,
not like this is a specific thing that happened. I
got jacked and these guys whatever. He just like blankets

(27:28):
the whole area. And that was a sentiment like, oh,
don't go down into the jungle. And you know, Ronda says,
oh what the jungle, and all these things like that.
So Ronda takes it like, oh, what are you saying
about the community that I come from? Just because I
live here with you guys and I'm in this mumble
And then she it also causes her to reflect. So
this is what I go into Darren's office with with, Like,

(27:51):
you know, she can't be part of among the people
saying those people over there and I'm separate from that.
She's got to realize, Oh, I need to grow myself.
I've been away out of context. I haven't seen my grandmam,
my cousin, you know, whoever still lives in South Central whatever.
And that was the thing, like we never got to
see Rhonda's background, right, but certainly, you know she knows

(28:13):
people there. She you know, she's a part of that
community no matter where you know, where you are. And
and so I was just really grateful that he that
that Darren really heard me and turned it into Okay,
let's everybody have an awakening. Awakening.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, that's great. Yea, I love the whole story.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
I'm so happy because we were talking about it, when
we talked about the episode, We're saying, I wonder what
that was like for you because there were very few
women on the writing staff, there may have been one
at that point and you know black people at all.
And I love that makes sense because it really felt
like they had a pretty good handle on it.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
Why because it was.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, I really talked about and more real than a
stere cliche storyline, right, which it could have been.

Speaker 3 (28:57):
It easily easily could have been. And I think that
you know, to our level of commitment to craft and
really going deeper with it, and their commitment to like
really telling a story. Again, like the focus of it
was really about, you know, young adults growing into themselves
and what kind of world they wanted to create and

(29:19):
live in and how their worldview would would be right.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
I love that you did that though, because it took courage.
So we talk a lot of it was exact word,
we had to do everything. So I love that you
had the courage to call them and say this doesn't
feel authentic, man, and that they listened.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
It was really it was really powerful, and it was
sort of like I was nervous to do it. I
was like, and it's not like I went through my
agent and say hey, I want to have it, like
I just but we had already there had been this
sort of like familiarity within the production company and Aaron
and Darren that I felt that I could come when

(29:55):
something troubled me. I knew regardless that I couldn't live
with myself without sayings they had listened to or not.
I was going to have to act my way through
those deeper meanings or the meanings that I was trying
to say. It was moving to be to be able
to affect the change, like.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Yeah, did you feel like that in other storylines.

Speaker 6 (30:12):
Like did you find yourself like with that door open?
Was that then an ongoing conversation that you.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
It wasn't necessarily an ongoing conversation, listen, I was happy
to be there, Yeah, okay, like I want to pay job.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
No, it wasn't.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
It wasn't that I felt like I would be pushing
or anything. But it never got like that sensitive about
these like racial kinds of things.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
You know.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
Then it just became universal themes of like relationships with
your MoMA, you know, what do your friends say? And
the act or the actor as like that wasn't that
wasn't something I needed to go to the back to
back right, you know, like you know what I mean?
It was just like Okay, this is this could be
somebody's take on it. Another episode that comes to mind
was when raid On Chong came talking about Roommates from Hell.

(30:53):
But that how far along.

Speaker 6 (30:54):
We're we're we're about to watch it.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
Oh, you can talk about because because because it's after
Amy leaves. Oh, and then she comes in, I get
like this single white female kind of It's just like
she's you know, she's like commandeering my life and rearranging
my my my hangars in my closet and I'm like,
where is my Oh I cleaned everything with bleach and

(31:19):
it was just like, my god, so funny. And ray
Raydn is such a marvelous actress, so it was like
beautiful having her as a guest star and having to
do all that. And she was such a like differential
from any character we'd ever seen her play, So she
was on it.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
We had such great guest stars.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
You talked about that a lot, how much fun it
is to see who came through. I missed that about
being a regular on the show. I miss meeting all
the people you get to come from, get.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
To work, and wonderful directors as well.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
You know, what do you remember? I don't know. After
thirty years.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
We can't remember some of them who come back to
Richard Lang. We remember Dannie Carell and Charlie Carrell.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
Talked about Victoria with Thomas. You had a hard time
with Victoria Hackburg. I don't know if.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
Rooney Bean that's what I was Bethan Rooney. And then
I worked with Bethany again on some other shows. But
Bethany was great. She's amazing. What she wanted she really did.
She was like she was she was a mom too,
and she was like okay. She really had a way
of like nurturing way of talking to actors. I loved it. Yeah,

(32:29):
clear vision.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yeah, she was connected us and the men. It's happened
with all the women directors. The men would go are
you sure, and she would.

Speaker 3 (32:35):
Go, I am. And think about how like love that
she was.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
So she knew exactly what she wanted to go. Really,
She's like yes, and I was like, oh, that's why
I want to be.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
These were very crucial times in our social constructs, of
of of of ideas about women. And you know this,
the nineties were really really volt times. You know, we
look back now and think, yeah, you know, you know,
women's rye and all the things, but we were moving
the needle so far in those times, and yeah, it

(33:06):
was really cutting edge.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
That's a good point that you're saying, Vanessa, because I
think of the nineties and again my age being so young,
like you're saying, we're also young, and so I think
of it as a very nostalgic, joyful time, but you
forget what really, in a bigger sense, those times were about.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
For sure. I mean that we can list all these
women directors on our show that wasn't the norm.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yeah, and even yeah, and even and even the storylines
you know, we went back to I've seen a lot
of them now and just all the drama that they
came up with was violence against women.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
Yes, go to Yes, I mean.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
That did you feel that coming in the season one?
Did that?

Speaker 4 (33:49):
Well?

Speaker 3 (33:49):
Remember they the episode where Amy is getting stalked, Like
it's a light stalking, Yeah, you know, it's yeah, there's flowers.
But I was like, oh, this was them touching at
some really deeper stuff that was happening, you know, But
I feel like they were really trying to balance this,
you know, nine oh two one oh echoes, right, Like

(34:12):
we were like in that sauce of that with doing
much more cutting edge, deep, you know, thirty something ideology
and and themes.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
I think they as a show we're trying to figure
themselves out. Yeah, we're all saying yeah, because there's some
of your storylines about the I'm thinking of you with Terrence.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
And though I didn't watch those again okay, yeah, we
haven't watched Gotten, but I just remember what you thought
of that.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
I was wondering, wasn't you on for a while?

Speaker 3 (34:44):
Yes, Yes, I think I think Ronda was really like
moving through. Okay. Am I an artist? Am I a
career woman, an entrepreneur? I've got my business here, and
then there's some man who wants to come and just
swoop me up and just you know, put me in
as a trad wife, right exactly. And so you know

(35:05):
that ski Oh that was one of the outfits I
wish I had kept. Oh my goodness, this one suit.
You know, this wash is such a great thing. He
took me skiing like so he was taking her out
of her, you know, out of her what she could.

Speaker 2 (35:18):
Have shown her, what he could be with him.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
But she was like, listen, I'm not such an eat.
You can't just buy me. Hold on, I've got career
moves and other things I want to do. So really,
you know, I think these were ideas and themes that
women were going through, age were going through. Yeah, so attracted,
tract with what we've got.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
An over guy comes in who has a career and
stuff and kind of just takes you to all this
fancy stuff.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
With important fancy you know me now, So yeah, we're
gonna do this together, you know.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
But you pick up, you come back to the apartment,
you picked up, you pick your buds, right, yes, yeah,
what was the outpit?

Speaker 3 (35:54):
That outfit was like a beautiful like onesie no, no, no, no,
when he took me skiing ski out But can we
talk about my kiss with Nestor? Oh that was my
first on screen kids, Oh my goodness. I never thought

(36:18):
of myself as a leading lady. So to be able
to have an on screen kiss, it was just like
I was always like the sidekick, the friend, you know,
you know, and so to like have a kiss, it
was so so great, was it? It was so great?

Speaker 2 (36:35):
Was he? What was he like?

Speaker 3 (36:36):
He was marvels We had the same agent actually, so
that was he was cool. He was very you know,
just beautiful and marvelous. So so that was great too. Okay,
like in terms of how the this was, this was
good feedback that we got. So originally, you know, my
character Ronda was going to be sort of like a
plane chain and you couldn't really get a date, and

(36:57):
they were going with that, with that idea, and then
they then then then it wasn't really tracking.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
If she can't get.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
And then I started to have like boy friends and
all these things. So that was so much fun.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
That was really really nice. So you did have effect
there too. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
Again again you know they wrote toward the character. That's
that was also like what you know, good writers do,
a good writing staff do well, they'll write to the
to the.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
The chemistry that's already there. Yeah. Energy.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yeah. One of our fan questions that I thought was
so hilarious is are you upset that they're the only
one who didn't get to have a relationship with Grant?

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah? I am.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
And you know the reason, it's not that they didn't
consider it. I think the affiliates in Middle America weren't
really going to buy it. Guys. You got to remember
what times we were These were really like not eve
all times the audience was not WOA, which is a
good thing awaken to like where we need to grow
and where we need to you know, we're taking back

(38:01):
that term. It's it's like the audience wasn't ready. So yeah,
so it was a it was a big thing, you
know for me to even kiss you know, nestor really yeah,
of course, I mean, of course Grant would be getting around.
Of course Grant would be getting.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
The black girl.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
Ye black lovers off camera kidding me and she's a dancer,
come on, So talking about Stevie, Yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
Could have calmed Darren.

Speaker 6 (38:35):
Did you feel that, like through the course of season one,
did you feel like the writing was there for you
or like, did you see as the show is evolving,
because we've had people say like, and I think you've
even mentioned in interviews, like there were no black writers.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
And they didn't really know what to do with your character.
They didn't know what.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
To do with my character, which is why eventually, like
I left, especially when the show turned from like it's
just gonna be nighttime soap opera and everybody's gonna be
sleeping with everybody's like they didn't know what to do.
But I never felt it. I never felt it. I
got just as many fan letters. I was. I went
to Spelling's house, you know, when we got through, when
we got the pickups, I thought, I was going on,
we're the rest with everyone.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Everyone's going to be sleeping with everybody, and I that's
such a fascinating No. No, of course, you know what.
I brought outside people in for me, so I got
to keep my good girl here. I sleep with outside people.
But but that's an interesting thing. If they don't have
people sleeping with everybody, and if they can't have interracial couples,
how complicated that my.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
Mind is being it was going to be, and they're
not being a writer in the room to reflect you know,
that storyline, that character, you know, it just it just
it matters, It really really matters. And so I didn't
feel like I needed to, you know, go in there
and advocate for any kinds of storylines. I was having

(39:51):
a good time. Yeah, the clothing and the camaraderie. I
was engaged with all of the certain line. No matter
what the storyline is, Ronda always had something to say
take on it. So you know, I was fine. And
and like I said, it turned from her being like,
you know, hard to date and everything to like having
lots of dates and then eventually you know, getting married
and whatever. So I was that was fine, right, living

(40:12):
my best life getting married, you know, between episodes and stuff.
It was so funny.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
So you got married during off hour, See I did?
I did.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
It was so crazy, eleven months of dating and then
I married my my ex. You know, we had a
good sixteen year run and two beautiful kids and so
but it was really and exciting, you know, that was
my experience. It was my first series of regular job.
I'm not complaining about a damn thing. That was pretty great,
you know what I mean. And all of you, all
of it, we were so it was so much fun,

(40:43):
you know, working. Yeah, so I know this is boring, right,
there's no like drama.

Speaker 6 (40:48):
But I know, but it's yannimous, like you know, we're
all telling the truth. Yeah, it happens to be.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
And lots of people were getting married too, Like didn't
Josie get married that year.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
Too, honeymoons short as we kept filming, we never stopped
filming filming.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah, was Thomas already married?

Speaker 1 (41:05):
No, Thomas met Liz during the film first season.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
Yeah, so it was that time in our lives. Thomas
and who else speaking a.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
List, these guys at me till later.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
Did not marry me, but Andrew got married during Yes
he did babies, right, Heather, I'm not sure divorced and
remarried during the show going on.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
Well, and Heather came our first season too, And okay,
so so when it when it was not tracking that this,
this twenty something angsty thing was going to really be
what hooked us in because you were saying, this is
another thought that I had. We had so much publicity,
remember all of those weeks and and and photo shoots,

(41:55):
and we had no we hadn't seen the script, and
they were like, so what did it?

Speaker 1 (41:58):
And we were on like, yeah, your character, Like I
couldn't I tell you yet?

Speaker 2 (42:03):
Yeah? Wow?

Speaker 3 (42:05):
And they were hooking, you know, putting us together in
different shots. We went out to a desert and did
a shot that we had a whole block party in
the middle of melwork. They shut they shut down to
have that. Do you remember that?

Speaker 2 (42:18):
No, I remember going to this mountain.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
They were doing an event autographs anding Magic Mountain. I
don't think you came that day because there were just
a few of us, the people who weren't shooting, and
nobody came, people are like, who are you? People were saying,
why are we sitting here?

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Like in this outdoor thing?

Speaker 3 (42:35):
So much publicity, it was like a hole. That's when
I saw what a publicity machine was. And again, because
we were on the fumes of nine to two one oh,
that had so much hope. So they were hoping it
was going to be the same kind of impact, just
young adults and not teenagers, which they were. And so
during the course of the show, then they started finding it.
What's what's it gonna be? Then it was like, let's

(42:58):
bring in the ringer, Let's in Neather, Heather to save
the day.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
That was when it was falling apart. So did you
do all the episodes in the first season. I did,
so it was like thirty thirty, so you remember Heather
coming on.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
Indeed, I remember I remember Billy getting recast. That was
another like, yes.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
The other guy shot a week, shot shot a day,
not a day, not a day, shot a day.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
But wasn't. But I feel like they were all these
things leading up.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
We did a ton of press with him. We did
press guy, this guy.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
Just when everybody was together. It just didn't that I
ended up working with him later so he did what's
his name again, Stephen Fan Steve.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Really good actor. It's just such a time.

Speaker 3 (43:46):
Yeah, such a marvelous actor. And yeah, so I thought
we were working because we were We had so much
publicity to do before the show, so it was just
the one day.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
I remember it as being one day, and we kept
redoing the scene and redoing the scene and redoing the scene,
and then they just said it wasn't like whatever they were.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
They were watching us so carefully because of the press.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
I think there hadn't been so much attention on would
have gotten more legs because he was great.

Speaker 3 (44:11):
It was wonderful.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
But then I think Aaron had an idea and then
brought this energy in with Andrew, which also worked really
well obviously, But I think it was he was a
victim of the intensity of the pressure we were all under.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
Yeah. I think, like anything, they were trying to find
what the show was. They had an idea of what
the show is, and then and then they're shooting the show.
It's like what you write, what you shoot, and then
what you got, you know, So it was like like
them figuring out that. But I just remember those these
were shocking, like, Okay, you could just lose it, okay,
you know, for your own like not bad acting or anything.

Speaker 2 (44:46):
It's like they're creating.

Speaker 3 (44:47):
A whole piece.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah with that, you're just a piece of it, you know.
I over the years and all the rejection that comes
with it, I remember calling my mom or talking to
her and crying about something much later, about something I
didn't get, and she just said, you know, Daphn, you
try to think of it as a painting, and you're
you're a color. You're a color rose. But they needed

(45:10):
rose matter, they needed rose, you know, they needed they
wanted the visuals. The visionaries wanted just something slightly different
from your rose color. So they just want something different,
and we all actors are literally just that's a hard
you're a victim to that.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
They could come and go, well yeah, because the second
you start working on the script, you're like, oh, yeah,
this is me exactly to immediately see yourself as it
and you're well, of course it was me, and they
have a completely different idea.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
And even when you're watching something and be like I could.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
Do that, yeah right, well that yeah, all actors think exactly, yeah, yeah, total.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
Color that you know.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
Yeah you so Vanessa, do you know again, looking back
thirty years later, with the lens of being in twenty
twenty four, I mean, I just want to ask, Obviously,
no black writers in the room back then, no people
of color pretty much shit anywhere, and you know, making
the rules and calling the shots and writing the stories
and stuff. Do you feel for your career as an

(46:13):
actress that it has changed? And where are we now?

Speaker 3 (46:16):
Oh? Yes, certainly, And even on Meloe's place. I mean,
it wasn't like the show was in a vacuum, even
though I didn't watch it after I was dismissed. And
I'll tell you about that later, but there were Yeah,
as my guy came on, and you know the people
that populated Allison's office, you know, the real world, there
were occasional black actor occasional occasional. But I took note

(46:40):
of it, of course, because I had been fired and
so I or let go, you know, and that that
was traumatic. I gotta tell you, like, it's my first series,
and I'm like in LA and it's my second job,
my first series. I'm like, I'm on my trajectory. It
was a really good lesson for me. So I had
done the I had done all thirty episodes, and I

(47:01):
worked the last day of the last show for the
season and then I get a call from Chuck and
actually because my my my ex husband was my manager
at the time, and so Chuck Charles Pratt called him
to say, yeah, it's not going on, and I was yeah,
he was one of my Yeah, he's a writer, executive producer.
So he gets the call and he's like grave and

(47:23):
he's not da da And he gets off the phone.
He says, Vanessa, they're they're letting you go. I was like, huh.
And I had already been to Spelling's house. We had
already had champagne that we got picked up for the
second season and all that stuff, and I was like what.
He was like, yeah, no, they're not You're not going
to be in the next season.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
I was devastated.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
Oh, I mean like devastated because there was no indication.
It wasn't like, oh, you're not getting the fan mail,
and it was like am I and you So you
start thinking, oh, was I horrible to work with? Was
my acting that I could, you know, just all of
the things. And then it took me into like a
very like let me go into like a spiritual let
me go to. What I know is like, this is

(48:05):
not whether I'm working or not is not the value
of who I am, who I am as an artist,
and and I got really clear. I went to agape,
I got involved into taking classes. I just went deeply
into my spiritual roots. You know, I was raised Baptist,
but you know I was doing the New Thought, you know,
kind of practical mysticism and practical spiritual just basically a

(48:27):
way to make God real and part of my everyday life,
not just something I did on Sunday or whatever. God
is love and God is you, and you are an
expression of God's love. And so all of that resonated
so wonderfully for me. So I was happy to find
like a spiritual home at a GOPE with Reverend Michael
and all the teachings there. And so as I said,
I went, I took classes because I was so hurt.

(48:49):
I was so so hurt. I mean, so much of
your value, you know you. So what I came to
was that, oh, if I let whether I'm working or
not be the measure of how good I am as
an actor, then I'll always be at the mercy of
this business of someone else. I said, I'm still that

(49:09):
fine actor who booked that job and booked the jobs before,
whether I'm working or not. So it was a very
painful but very purposeful lesson to take going forward. And
then regards I booked, other things happen. So I went on,
but it was really it was so it was it
was I felt like a bait and switch kind of thing.
And again I was like, well, if I had known

(49:30):
I wasn't coming back, because the other thing about not
know being known, not knowing that I was coming back
was I could have auditioned for other shows living. I
could have gotten an on Living Single. I could There
was like a bunch of shows. I mean I taught.
I think, you know, there would have been opportunities. I
wouldn't have been like sitting out the whole next season

(49:50):
because I would have had my next show. But what that,
what that gave me opportunity to do was go to Spain,
go to Europe and be the face of Melrose Place
in your So then I got a show in Spain
on Tellasinco, and I had like all these people like
mobbing my car because Melwoy's Place was playing in all
these places. And so you guys go on to set

(50:11):
working and I was getting all the love and kudos,
and from that appearance in Madrid, Teleasinkle offered me a
variety show, So now, of course I did. I did
a show called Vivanos Novios grand Fiesta. I was in
Spain for four months, getting tutored in Spanish, speaking in Spanish,

(50:32):
singing Gloria Stefan's shows. I'm like a whole lola Forlana.
Yea variety show thing. It was amazing, That's incredible, amazing.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
I've done a show in Spain. I was a guest
on one of those. I know what you mean, like literally.

Speaker 3 (50:46):
Like you know, in terms of like what the format
of these shows, but I was I would I did
like full on production numbers.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (50:53):
It's just the best thing ever, isn't it amazing?

Speaker 2 (50:57):
Yeah, just hearing your story about this first time I've
heard all this, and I think we've all had that
in our careers at times where you just you know,
have gotten let go or something isn't working out and
you have to go deeper and you have to find
yourself worth and your value because even if you you're
constantly being rejected, and I remember it being My story
came later about this, but just thinking it's over falling.

Speaker 3 (51:21):
To day I ever work again, And also like who.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
Am I do?

Speaker 3 (51:25):
Is my my child?

Speaker 2 (51:26):
Because you have done this your whole life since you
were child, and your dreams, and you just think is
your child dream over?

Speaker 3 (51:32):
Is that it?

Speaker 2 (51:33):
They are discarding you, And kudos for you for freaking
going deeper and finding that spiritual anchor and the truer truth,
the bigger truth of you. And then you find there's infinite,
There's more infinite.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
You are so much more than that. Bronda's Deep, Puck
and Wayne Dyer and all of these truth teachers that
I was able to find as a result. I mean,
I think I would have found them anyway because I was.
I'm a seekert. We're all, you know, trying to you know,
balance that and I and I thank my my my
religious roots, my Baptist church, you know, going to church
every Sunday. My grandmother was the was the organist. So

(52:10):
I have all that. So I had a spiritual practice
and then I sharpened it and tuned it to make
sense for my life, you know, I tailored it to
you know, Okay, I want this part of it, not
that part of it. I want the love message. I
want like I want to live as Jesus, you know,
I want to do I want to know that I'm
you know that he came as an example of how

(52:31):
you can live in peace and be kind to you know,
your your your community and your world and make a difference.
So it was a yeah, it was a it's like,
how are you going to survive this Hollywood thing, this
monster if you don't have something deeper and richer to
anchor you and hold you because most of it is no,

(52:52):
most of our lives as actors is no. And it's
only a like it's like.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
You are bigger than this than this job that you
came in to do and A and B. Most people
they quit before they even had a chance, but we
have all you know, you did that and you kept
going and kept going, and it's like you were meant
to do this. Well that was the thing.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
It was like.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
It was also like a calling, right, So it's like
it's not like I could really quit and be happy
like this was what my calling is? My service? You know,
like when when you know that you would do it
and have done it, whether they were paying you or not,
you it's like, oh, and that's when I would talk
to people. It was like, well, find the thing that

(53:34):
really you love that you would do whether we're paying
you or not, because then that's your passion. So yeah,
I mean it was, it was. It was a good time.
But oh girl, but it got me ready for hell.
Welcome to Hollywood, like for real, for real, Like they'll
roll out the red carpet for you and they'll snatch
that in a litter.

Speaker 6 (53:55):
A lot of fans were so excited that you're a podcast.
I mean there's you know, you've got a ton of
fans for Melrose. Do you feel that in your life,
like you still have people like, oh I.

Speaker 3 (54:04):
Love your Melrose. Melrose brought me into a wider America, right,
so like like my fans are from like so so
when people recognize me in airport, I don't know what
they're what they're linked in too. You know, certainly people
of a certain age well like Melrose and being and
being that representation on Melrose Place was also very crucial

(54:26):
and very very marvelous. I know, lots of black people said,
I start watching it when you left, I started watching it,
so you you know you left a whole It was
a whole connection. Yeah, yeah, so a whole swath of
the audience was left, you know, but you went.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
On to do I'm just I went on and looked
Murder One. You did several episodes Chicago Hope, of course,
Soul Food.

Speaker 3 (54:45):
I was a series regular Murder one. Yeah, and that
was like a very I talked about that being I
was really a very high, very highly paid extra because
while I okay, so the the oh J trial was
going on, so we were doing the first sort of
like well maybe not the first, but like a court

(55:05):
trial like law office kind of show, and then the
real life crime you know, court show of a century
took over the airway be televised. So then our little
murder show, you know, people were like, yeah, okay, whatever, Boddy,
let's really see what's going on. And this is on
the heels of the Rodney King thing, right, So right,

(55:29):
so it's volatile times and LA's smoking, you know, and
and and and and because you know, the community felt
the way it did about how those officers got, you know, free,
when when that verdict came, even though there was questionable,
we said, this is American law. This is what if
you have enough money, you can get off. And so

(55:49):
this man is going to you know, I mean all
of us knew, you know, they look very mean. Yes,
you know, so none of no one was convinced, but
we were like, this is how all goes down. This
is how it went down. You know, these those white
guys got to off can afforded, don't Yeah, exactly, you know,
American justice has a has a price stag and and

(56:12):
certainly a color, but it definitely it can be bought.

Speaker 7 (56:16):
Right.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
So, and you were on Murder one.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
I'm a Murder one track girl one exactly, Well, what
was that this podcast? Why do you think we need
exactly to my own my own cheat notes. But so,
so I had an episode of a little breakout episode

(56:40):
on Murder one, and you know, my boyfriend got arrested,
and then I went to my bosses and so it
was really really great. And then they got into the
show the anchoring, the anchoring storyline, and it didn't really
include or they didn't really include Ron disppointed. I mean, Ronda,
what was my character? And that my character's point of view?

(57:01):
So I was just answering the phone, and I'd I'd
be chilling in my dressing room on that Fox a lot.
I'd be like Okay, yeah, I want to pay me
this series of regular money. I'm here for it. And
so but it was it was still wonderful. I was
on the set, I was watching what the directors do
and you know, lighting and all that stuff. So it
was it was a great education and it was wonderful.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
Yeah, and not lasted a better none of you. Yeah,
that soul Food, So how is it to be on
soul Food after all of these other being sort of
minimalized on the whole food.

Speaker 3 (57:30):
Was a mecca. So the only you know, I wish
it were different that we were shooting in La but
I think that would have turned that would have I
don't know if we would have bonded the same way
because sort of like being at away camp and forging
friendships and being and the show was so big and
we didn't really know because we're tucked away in Canada

(57:50):
and Toronto shooting it. So we had no idea that
I mean, we had an idea because Melinda Williams was
telling us, listen, this is about to be thing. You know, listen, listen,
people gonna be making babies like all this. He predicted
all of it, but we it might have been more
distracting being in La with everyone's life and their connections.
You know, coming in we've had you know access, We

(58:13):
had lots of wonderful guest stars, but we've had more.
The casting extras was sometimes difficult. We're doing it because
Canada is really a different country and so some of
the cultural differences. You know, Canada, the African American people
there are from the Caribbean, and so, you know, I
remember the director having to like teach these people, teach

(58:36):
the guy who was the was hired to be the
pastor how to lay his hand on somebody. You know,
these things that are like part of the culture of
the African American church in the States. It was different
in at least this actor. You know, maybe I won't
put it all on you know, but this particular but
we had that like lots of times with the extras.

(58:57):
I mean, they were wonderful. It was a wonderful pool
of actors, but they weren't as well trained because there
wasn't a whole lot of things for black actors in
Canada to do.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
Egather so different.

Speaker 3 (59:06):
Now, Yeah, it was like so all of the white
actors had like lots of training and lots of opportunities.
But lots of the African American actors that we weren't
you know, flying in from LA and other places. You know,
this was their first job or you know, they didn't
have a lot of training or a lot of time
on set. So yeah, it was, it was. It was marvelous,

(59:28):
you know. And again like you make a family and
your your your cast is your family. And so those
are my sisters for life. And the showrunner who like
the show writing was like got used. It was. It
was everything. There was nothing that needed to be explained.
I didn't have to come in and make a case
for it. Listen, I can't say those people, you know,
like it was, things were understood and and we were

(59:50):
all so really trying to humanize the African American experience
on screen, like we we came in our curls, we
went to bed with our night capsle you like all
these things that we wanted to like humanize the gamut
of emotion. And yes, in one family, you could have
somebody who was having some criminal element done of stuff
they're going through and an attorney at a top firm,

(01:00:11):
like the whole gamut of what is the African American
experience in this one family, and again we were on
the heels of the popularity and the great success that
the movie was, and so then that was, you know, amazing.
We were stepping into the shoes. So again a lot
of like pressure at the beginning right where you're there's
already an ip as it's called today, Right, there's already

(01:00:32):
the ip. You're stepping into the shoes of other wonderful
actors who had made this show. But when we would
get questioned and interviews and stuff like that, well, why
do you feel stepping into Vivica A. Fox's role? And
I was like, you know, it's like a great song.
We want to hear Billy sing it. We want to
hear Dinah Washington sing it. It's like when you've got

(01:00:54):
like a great character and a great story, it's just
going to be another take on a wonderful thing, and
you're going to see what you're going to see. And
then we as as the series actors, got to really
expand these roles that that those initial actors in the
movie set up so wonderfully. So it was really great
and as a as a training ground of how to

(01:01:17):
be on set, how to like everything that they're souped
and nuts. I got to direct. I wrote and directed
a piece. Yeah not because they wouldn't let me direct
an episode, which is a time on the tradition. So
my agents go in like second season, it's like, okay,
we'd like to have this, and they're like, well, you
know whatever. But but the heads of the network was

(01:01:38):
like Jerry Offset, he was like, yeah, I heard you
guys wanted to direct and let me how about this?
And so they gave us a budget and I got
to direct an independent a thirty minute film and so
out budget to do your own thing, and you wrote
it and I wrote and directed it. Yes right now,
Yeah I do, I do, I do, But I haven't

(01:01:58):
directed in such a long time, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
What I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
But it was that was such a marvelous opportunity. It
was like that that sort of doggedness, that resilience, like
what I still want to direct. And it was like
this because I think because they were not in Canada,
they had an obligation to hire local hires in Canada,
so that it was a tricky thing getting the cast

(01:02:22):
to direct an episode, you know, which is which is
a time of tradition. You get to direct episode of
America because you're from the Yeah, they need to employ Canadians, right.
That was part of like the buy into being able
to shoot in Canada and get all of those write offs.
And remember I think it was like an Ayatzi strike
or something like that. So being in Canada, we had
acts we could keep going. Yeah, it was yeah, you know,

(01:02:44):
it was like some weird stuff going on.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
We have time for one question. There were so many
great questions, fans so excited to have you here. But
like one of the really fantastic questions is what do
you think Ronda would be doing today? I got it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
She's running a wellness center called Body and Soul and
it's dancing and it's all massage and you know, all
the things wellness and health and diet and all you
know she's getting she's keeping, she's keeping it in the body.
But because her husband said her up, you know, with

(01:03:21):
the nice little package, did she marry Terrence, she's but
they're divorcing. There was wonder.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
That sounds amazing. I want to go to body.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
I know comes to Body and Soul. That just downloaded
from the angel that you know, I was looking at
the fan questions we asked most of them because there
we asked all those the.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
Only one we actually didn't get to just questions of
one mind. That's great. I love I love envisioning Ronda
exactly where Vanessa.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
And I love envisioning all of us there right exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
I mean, we could talk all day, But is there
anything else that you wanted to like say or you
remember from what I was going to say?

Speaker 3 (01:04:06):
Just in terms. I was having a wonderful dinner catching
up with my other castmate, dear friend's sister friend, Melinda Williams,
and and she was talking about, you know this, this
impact that we have in the in the minds, in
the zeitgeist of American television, and and that these characters
live in the context, in context of their time and

(01:04:29):
in the context of our lives, and what a beautiful
like opportunity and honor we've had to like tell these
stories through these characters, and that this is all a
part of the context of who we are as artists.
So I thought that was like a really powerful way
to hold what we do as sacred. Is so easy
to be like, oh, what have you done for me lately?

(01:04:50):
Like what's your next thing? And all you know, all
those things and I I just feel like, you know what,
what we're doing, the stories we were able to tell,
what we get to do, this rarefied air to be
actors working as often, you know, to work at all
is a is a blessing, you know. So I feel
like I feel so grateful to have shared this space

(01:05:13):
and this time in our lives that was long ago
and yesterday, you know what I mean. It's just like
it goes by in a blink. And and I we
got like grown children who are married in and starting
all the things.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
I love to give it real value beyond just what
the ratings did or whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
Or what it was just to do, like we mean
something to people. We're part of people's story, you know,
and part of people's life and nurtured their their beingness
and growing up and entertained and enlivened and enlightened you
know all the things.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
Yeah, partly shift when that comes up for us a lot.
We shared that time. We were the same age as
the people watching it, so we have this shared memory
all of us. We have the experience of the show.
They watched the show, like we really share it with people.
It's a really special thing coming of age, right.

Speaker 6 (01:05:58):
And It's such a great way to sort of wrap
this up book. We have loved being with you as
a as a person, and we shared this thing in
our past, but we're so happy to have you in
our presence.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
Yeah, we love We hope. I want to I do.

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
I want to come back.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
Guys and you and everyone, We're getting there, and thank you, thank.

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
You for heaven. Thank you. I look forward to us all,
you know, being out together and meeting our fans again.
That would be really really.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Yeah, they're so party. Or you can write us something
and we can all do something now another excuse to
sit down and.

Speaker 3 (01:06:40):
Chay exactly all the things. So I was so thrilled
and excited to come. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 6 (01:06:49):
We'll see you next time too, and thanks again all
the for all the fan questions and all the listeners.
Keep keep subscribing and morning, well we'll see you next week.