"Polyamory" w/ Lauren Oyler

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Podcast starts now. Wow wow wow wow wow, the way
that we are not only a bicoastal podcast now we
are actually try.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Coastal, tricoastal, international global.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
We've gone global. One.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
We have the song international Smile by Katie Perry is
applicable here.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
I would say it's never been more applicable in our lives,
which is saying something because both of us have traveled before.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
That's right, multiple times even you know, speaking of songs
that exist.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Today's a huge day. Sam. Do you want to say, why.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Are you really deciding right now to hop into the
Taylor's discourse?

Speaker 3 (01:01):
Well, you know, we've always been a proudly we were
the pioneers and starting a movement of being neutral about
Taylor Swift. And I think for a while, I think
I was satisfied being like it is the biggest political
statement you can make is never address when her music
comes out, never address anything about her never, you know.
And and I think silence sometimes is actually more politically

(01:25):
impactful than using your voice. And that's something they won't
tell you at various you know, Ivylea universities across this
great nation. But I think that I somehow today I
did feel compelled to speak.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
So you're speaking out, you're speaking now, as Taylor Swift
would say.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
That's right. So here's my thing.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
I really I am trying to find the right words
with which to say this. So much of this podcast,
and so much of like our rapport and our sense
of humor is like taking things that are meaningless and
silly and vapid, and like weaving theories around them and
being like, this is why quartersips are straight and button
ups are like it. We love talking about things that

(02:04):
don't matter. We love something silly, something stupid, something low
brow even, And so I would never purport to be
some sort of pretentious elitist or something like that. Here's
what I'm running into a wall with Taylor Swift. I
can't even muster up the energy to do that with her,
Like you can't even be playful with it. I don't
know how to even interact with it in a in

(02:26):
a distanced, ironic way.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
It's like staring into a black hole.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
I'm finding myself crippled with silence in like a non
activism way. I feel like pel like I have to
be silent in like a like it's it's impossible to
like your words I feel like, you know how when
a famous person does our podcast. Yeah, sometimes they'll take

(02:51):
something random and be like and it'll make a headline
like blank says blank, and you're like, you took you
made news out of a comedy podcast. This makes no sense.
And I feel like any conversation, a private conversation I
will have about tedday Swift could be taken out of
context and made news because everyone is just looking for
like who hates her, who loves her? What's the deal?

(03:13):
And I'm like, everyone stop, Everyone's stopping. I mean, this
is the neutrality issue again. But I feel like you
can't remain on a day like today. I feel like
all I can do is like run into the woods
and hide.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
Yeah, that's very folklore of you. I imagine. I have
not listened to the album.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
I mean again, I'm so happy for all of her fans.
They are too, the most well fed fans in all
of pop music, and that is really amazing, you know,
as someone who stands Gaga, of course, I'm alive, but barely.
I get a morsel here and there, but I tell myself,

(03:54):
I'm emaciated. I'm ready to walk the runways of Milan.
Based on how emaciated I am for crying out loud right.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
Some of my friend was saying that they are like,
you know that Kamala thing. Sorry, we can't be talking
about online stuff, but you know the Kamala video where
she's like my favorite video of all time.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
My mother used to she would give us a hard
time sometimes and she would say to us, I don't
know what's wrong with you young people.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
You think you just fell out of a coconut tree.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
You exist in the context.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
Of all in which you live and what came before you.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
You didn't fall out of a coconut tree. You live
in the context of everything around or whatever. My friend
was like, you know, Taylor's fans are really the most
fell out of a coconut tree fan base around. And
I do think that there's something sort of beautiful about
that and sort of pure, Like you do. They seem
to exist in this childlike state where no music or
art has come before or after Taylor Swift. And I
was thinking, like, in the same way that you and

(04:52):
I wake up every morning read the news, maybe we
read some culture news or political news, or maybe we
catch up on what's going on in the arts, and
then we have a you know, some opinions about it.
I think these people only read, they have an app
that only shows them what Taylor Swift is doing, and
then they have and then that's like what the topic
of conversation is that day.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
I don't know what to make of it, to be honest,
like even this, I'm like, it's so easy to be
like all Taylor Swift fans are completely ignorant of past, present,
and future.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Sure, then it's like, but.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
That's not true, Like there's something even deeper, there's something
even more nefarious going on, because they do know what's
going on, Like some of these people are smart, some
of them like and it's like, what the hell is
happening here? And I don't know? And there's a way,
you know, when like I almost wish like to be

(05:44):
left out of this feeling. It doesn't give me the
feeling of eliteness that I would prefer it to give me.
It actually just gives me a feeling of lost. I
feel like like it's almost like, am I missing out
on a human experience? Is liking Taylor Swift a human
experience that I am incapable of experiencing? And I don't know?

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, No, I know, I know what you mean.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yeah, It's it's sort of like when an election is
happening and you see people earnestly, like feel truly like
a strong connection to Joe Biden or something, you know.
I mean, I guess there are no debates this year
because who needs them. But you know, in a normal election,
you're you know, there's debates, and it's like seeing someone
who is earnestly like, let's our guys gonna win. You know,

(06:31):
I just really like Team Blue and then and they're
like against Team Red and they're so excited about it
in a real earnest way and they're so like, oh,
that's going to make a difference, and you're like, God,
if only I could occupy that sort of spirit, I
would be so much happier on a day to day basis.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
I would be so much happier. I I know that.
Like I don't do like a lot of work to
try to educate myself. If I'm being about about what
like I, for all intents and purposes, I should be
someone who likes Taylor Slip. It should be someone that
is Team Blue over Team Read. I like, you know,
I've been on the last sixty pages of a book

(07:06):
that everyone reads seven years ago for six months, I
should be like this this person, and like I'm not
trying to open my eyes, I'm like trying to shut them.
And yet I see through it.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
I see what you're saying. You're saying.

Speaker 3 (07:21):
It's not even like you are some urban nite, sophistic
hit that is always shitting on things that are popular
and does not believe in popular art and only goes
to the opera. You're saying you want so badly to
participate in it, and you are in fact actively trying
to read less.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yes, this is like being gay all over again, where
it's like I shouldn't this shouldn't be me. Yeah, I'm
I'm just a boy from the Midwest.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah it.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
Being gay was forced upon you against your will, and
now being sort of smart has been forced upon you
against you will. Despite all your efforts. You're like, stop it,
stop it. You're bringing your head against the wall repeatedly.
You're trying to say, stop having critical thoughts. But it's impossible.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
It's impossible. That's literally it.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:08):
Wow, wow, you know you know what I think would
help us with this, with this discussion, bring in our guest,
bringing out a cultural critic to give her take.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
I'll say, George, do the honors.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
Oh my god, we are so excited to welcome to
the pod. I have to say we are. We are
a little late to this. I'm like, the book came
out like over a month ago, but we are so
excited to have author of No Judgment and also Fake Counts,
which is a novel. I loved Lauren Euler on the
podcast Lauren and welcome.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Hi.

Speaker 5 (08:37):
I have a thought, Actually, I thank you for bringing
in because I was like, I was raring to go.

Speaker 6 (08:41):
I was like, I have someone out.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah, well, you know Laurens as someone who sort of
has made a career out of tearing down powerful women.
I would love to hear your opinion on one, Miss
Taylor Swift.

Speaker 5 (08:53):
Well, I think Sam's issue your feeling of alienation about
not understanding what it's like to like to Swift. They
don't understand what it's like to not care about Taylor Swift, right,
And that's also a rich, beautiful experience that you're having
an aesthetic experience, even where you know you're making an effort,
you're listening to it, you just it doesn't mean anything

(09:15):
to you. That's also an experience that you're having, and
I think that that's very valid and you should be
ashamed of it. You shouldn't say anything bad about Taylor
Swift because my understanding is they will get you. But
but besides that, I think that's that's totally fine. But
do you think do you think that she in some

(09:36):
way produces the experience of believing that she is like
she fell out of a coconut You all fell out
of a coconut tree.

Speaker 6 (09:44):
This is all all like the present moment.

Speaker 5 (09:46):
There is no there's no predecessor, and there's no future
as well, right, Like that's part of the appeal. But
it's not like hedonistic enjoyment. It's just kind of a
high school emotional drama, right Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:04):
I think that's a big part of it is that
I think in order to really fully buy into the narrative,
you just have to. I mean, she is in this
constant state of like high school big feelings, which I
think there's something sort of beautiful about. I mean, I
don't know, it's much less interesting to release an album
that's about like, well, I woke up and I was
sort of hung over and then I read half an

(10:24):
article and then went on a walk, like, yes, it
is obviously like much more interesting to be constantly falling
in love and constantly having your heartbroken, but then you
also are stuck in this place where all these things
are feel like they're happening for the first time.

Speaker 5 (10:38):
Yeah, and also that there's they're never going to end, right,
like there's no future and for so past. But I
think people I don't know, don't people sort of want
to live in that place, And indeed, actually I do
think that they do. I do think that there are
some people who are unbothered by, uh the philosophical is

(11:00):
of existence, and they're just kind of like bopping around
and so the worst, you know, the the worst thing
that happens to them. And it's actually not a it's
not so I'm not being sound terrible, but it's not
like the worst kind of person to be to be
like I was in love with this guy and he
ditched me for someone more beautiful. It's it's not it
is it does suck, Like it's a really sort of

(11:21):
moving experience. Uh, and if you have no like you know, context, right,
the context.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
Yeah, it's even more moving.

Speaker 5 (11:29):
Yeah, it's even more moving. But what's amazing is that
people don't sort of have any epiphanies after that, right,
Like they just keep doing the same thing over and over,
like it doesn't make them stronger.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
There's no connecting of the dots. There are just dots constantly.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
There's no Kelly Clarkson.

Speaker 5 (11:45):
There's no Kelly Clarkson. That's Kelly Clarkson, right, What does
Kelly makes me stronger? There's none of that.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yes, there's just.

Speaker 5 (11:50):
There's there's no Kelly Clarkson American I will never happened.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
I feel this way. I also sometimes feel this way
about comedians. When comedians like keep finding themselves and fucked
up situations and like storytelling about the fucked up situation
that they got themselves into. I'm sort of like, well,
when are you gonna learn to not get into fucked
up situations? Like at some point you're seeking out fucked
up situations and being dishonest with either me, your audience
or you yourself. And I can't tell who you're being

(12:15):
dishonest to, but there is a dishonesty going on here.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
I mean, if there's someone who fell out of a
coconut tree at stand up comedians.

Speaker 5 (12:21):
But you guys are comedians. But what would happen if
you stop getting into fuck? I guess you comment on
external yes stimuli, right, so you don't need to get
a fuck up situation. But I recently sort of developed
appreciation for let's say, lived experience, and I'm like, yeah,
a little bit of a fucked up situation is okay.

Speaker 6 (12:39):
And as long as I conduct myself, as.

Speaker 5 (12:42):
Long as I win the fucked up situation, like, I'll
go you, I'm interested in that.

Speaker 3 (12:49):
Do you do you feel comfortable to telling us what
the fucked up situation was that you're referring to.

Speaker 5 (12:53):
It's just getting into scrapes romantic, oh, personal drama.

Speaker 6 (12:59):
I think this relates to what we're going to talk
about later. So I don't want to.

Speaker 5 (13:02):
Give too much. Okay, okay, life, it's like love life,
social life, like okay.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Sure, sure, sure, I mean I like, I look, I'm
not above getting myself into a fucked up situation, but
I think I am sort of. You know, I don't
like when it feels forced. I say, let it happen naturally.
You know, you can find you know, even the most
normal situation has interesting elements if you let it. It's
sort of my my take on it. But but you know,

(13:30):
maybe that's not true. Maybe I should join a cult
for a year and then I'll have a big book,
a big comedy book.

Speaker 5 (13:36):
We're not talking about we're not talking about cults. We're
not talking about cults. We're just talking about guys. You're
going out with that you sure, sure, sure it's going
to end badly, Like that's a yeah, you know, there's
a dispiriting like like idea that you know, you should
avoid the red flags and you should be actualizing and
you should live your life in a particular way.

Speaker 6 (13:53):
And you shouldn't.

Speaker 5 (13:55):
I don't seek out things, but if they come to
you and then you accept.

Speaker 6 (14:00):
Them, that that's sort of different.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
Well yeah, and it's also like, what are you gonna
do not ever seek out big feelings and not evan
always be completely like down the line and neutral and
never have any big I mean, you're not even gonna
get close to the epiphanies if you don't at least
attempt some things.

Speaker 6 (14:19):
And then you're going to get older and you're going
to have many regrets.

Speaker 5 (14:23):
Yes, you're going to be reflecting constantly on all all
of the things you could have done and all the
loves you lost, and what if you had just gone
what if you had just gone to the bar, like
when you had said you were you know, okay, you
just had.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
Yeah, it's true.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
You're literally convincing me to be Taylor Slift. Coded.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
I'm literally all in on Taylor Swift. Now, I'm not
even kidding. There is something slip this is yeah, no,
I know, Oh, it's all about Taylor Slift. I wonder
if you know what I think it is also about
Taylor Swift. And I have to be honest with myself
and call myself in because I feel like there's almost something.

(14:59):
Taylor's unable to have any sort of ironic distance and
is unable to have like a sense of humor about
herself really, and I think my distaste for it comes
down to that. But maybe that is on me because
I don't have the courage to like enter this fully
earnest millieu. And it's like that's because of I have
some sort of self like insurmountable self. I don't know,

(15:23):
shame or self awareness or something.

Speaker 5 (15:25):
But do you think that she had It's not ironic,
but certainly you have to have distance if you're sort
of cultivating a public image, right, she just I mean,
everybody has a persona. She surely has her persona. Is
that it's just like we find it sort of annoying
and boring.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
I guess that's true. I guess that's true.

Speaker 6 (15:42):
But maybe she's not annoying and boring. She is. She
could just be really good at doing that.

Speaker 5 (15:48):
But usually my feeling about celebrities, like really truly famous
people is that they're all like quite with it, if
not intelligent.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
Yeah right, yeah, I do think, especially these days, it
is so genuinely difficult and traumatizing to have any level
of fame that if you are getting through that on
a day to day basis, you must have a good
head on your shoulders in some capacity.

Speaker 5 (16:11):
Or you have been your good head is like, you know,
I'm sure she's crazy in some way because of that.

Speaker 6 (16:19):
Because of that, but she can handle it, right.

Speaker 5 (16:22):
The ability to handle it doesn't necessarily indicate a good head.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
That's true. But but I mean maybe.

Speaker 5 (16:28):
Abnormal, but that doesn't mean that she's a psycho.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Sure, Okay, to what would happen if you did hang
out with tail lived and you were like, oh my God,
she's actually incredible. I'm such an asshole. How would that feel?

Speaker 5 (16:42):
It would be great because then I would get to
go whatever, sit in the box of whatever fucking sport
of things she's gone to for some reason, like dance
around with Caara de.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
Levine and like everyone my childhood dream.

Speaker 5 (16:53):
Get some free clothes. I think we're probably similar sizes
because she's also a tall woman.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
So I think that, Oh that's true.

Speaker 6 (16:59):
Great, Uh if I you know, if I genuinely liked her, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:05):
I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility
that Taylor. I mean, all these people have sort of
a team that picks what books they are photographed with
and what tastes they have and whatever. I don't think
it's on their own possibility for them to decide. You know,
we want Lauren oiler to be part of Taylor's squad
for the next album cycle. She's sort of like going
into more bookish direction. And I think I do agree

(17:28):
with you that you're I mean, I have never met
you in person, but I know you're you're saying you're tall.
I know Taylor's like you guys would probably look good
together in a photograph, like the two of you hanging out.
It would be sort of like the rest laughing. Yeah,
like you with Blake Lively, with Carl Delvine. There's some
I don't know, it would be something I don't know.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
Wow, I mean that would be so groundbreaking. That would
be sort of her growing up.

Speaker 5 (17:52):
Also, isn't isn't the sort of idea that she had
this brief relationship with that guy from whatever that band is.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
Matt Yeah whatever, and Mattie Haley.

Speaker 5 (18:01):
He helps her produce as far as I know, her
one kind of interesting song, which is about being the
anti hero or whatever. I mean.

Speaker 6 (18:09):
I think I think that song's.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Inter the great song I have for say Sona.

Speaker 5 (18:13):
The persona that she is speaking from is really interesting,
and so, you know, maybe she wants to go a
little dark, come hang out in Berlin. I believe, if
I recall, I believe she did her tour and she
did not come to Oh wow, Oh that could be wrong.
Don't quote me on that, but I believe she went
to Munich.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
And Munich I was about to say, yeah, I believe.

Speaker 5 (18:35):
She did not stop here because she maybe would not
have been welcome. I'm sure they could have scrounged up
some people.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
To see her buddy. Yeah, you know, my sister lives
in Munich, and it is really just sort of like
the more basic Berlin like it is everyone. They take
everyone from Berlin and they're like, take off one eyebrow
piercing and put on this startup T shirt and you
can go to.

Speaker 5 (18:59):
Mune that they're glowing, like they're really creepy. Right, they're
really really tan, really glowing. They're always like hanging out
by the river that whatever, and yeah, they're very rich.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
Well I'll say this and we can close the close
the book on Taylor Swift. But I'm i you know,
I started out this whole episode being like my issue
with Taylor Swift is that I can't even theorize around her.
And here we are, you know, ten fifteen minutes into
the episode, and we have thought of some amazing points
we have, you know, sort of like I think brought

(19:32):
into the four some interesting elements of her work. And
I think I'm gonna after this, I'm going to listen
to the album Topped to a Bottom and I'm going
to publish my official rankings of the songs on BuzzFeed
dot com, So look.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
Out for that.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Yeah, I think I think we did a really really
balanced discussion, and I think if anyone were to attack
us after this, well we would have grounds to put
them in prison.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
I agree, And again, as I always say, I like
the album reputation. If anyone wants to come for me,
just know that that. I often listened to the song Delicate.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yeah, and even it's really good, you'd like recommend some
reason it's really good. The song mean speaks to me.

Speaker 6 (20:15):
That's a great sign.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
It's such a hit. So you know, this has been
a really really balanced discussion and I think you deserve
money for that.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
Actually, yeah, and shout out to the Tortured Poets Department.
That's what it's called.

Speaker 3 (20:28):
Yeah, yeah, the most it's really if if I were like,
what is the most grading series of three words you
could put together, it would be Tortured Poets Department.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
Well, and it's apparently what her exes with a group
text thread was called. So it's a call of.

Speaker 5 (20:50):
You said that.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
I don't know. Someone was telling me this. Last night.
I did a show and I found myself everyone there
was a huge Sitter Swift fan, and I was sort
of just like it was that thing where I was like, oh,
I'm like I found myself an enemy territory, and like
if I say a word, they'll I'll be drawn and quartered.
So I need to be silent.

Speaker 5 (21:08):
You know where I was.

Speaker 6 (21:09):
I was in Washington, d C.

Speaker 5 (21:11):
And I was on a little book tour, and I
was in mostly close to elite cities or Chicago, the
great American city. But then I was ending in Washington, DC,
and everywhere you went was Taylor Swift. It was some
it was It was also not from any one album.
It was like obviously a Taylor Swift Spotify radio or
even worse, I would assume some someone's personal my favorite

(21:35):
Taylor Swift tracks just non stop.

Speaker 6 (21:38):
Every restaurant, every where you were.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
D C is very DC is. Actually I would say,
what the city Taylor Swift was made for? Wow?

Speaker 5 (21:47):
And I mean from Pennsylvania. I No, Pennsylvania not that
far away from where I'm from. If I'm may, if
I'm ay.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Another reason why you guys hit it off, we.

Speaker 5 (21:59):
Would hit it off.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
No, DC is a perfect encapsulation of her.

Speaker 5 (22:03):
I think.

Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
So when Sam and I went on tour, you know,
we went to a few cities and our audience, you know,
it's like a sort of mix of I don't know,
sort of like queer and queer presenting people in their
like twenties through forties, okay, and it's like you see
some tattoos, you see some piercings, you see some people
that are sort of like, you know, work in marketing
but are ashamed of it, and you know they love
listening to comedy podcasts whatever. In DC, every single person

(22:27):
was like in a suit coming from working in the
White House. I've never seen anything like it, like the
most like respectful you know, applause, laughing exactly three ha
ha has per joke and then completely like composing themselves
well to be fair, Our.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Show that night was at the US House of Representatives, so.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
True, yeah yeah, And Joe Biden was.

Speaker 5 (22:52):
I'm trying to formulate the joke of trying to formulate
the joke of trying to formulate the joke.

Speaker 6 (22:55):
What about the senate guy, the twink, the twink, the twink,
the twink, Oh, the twink.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
That is that bottomed in the in the Yeah yeah, yeah,
Well see he's the only person that Twink talk about.
That's the only person that has ever lived out loud
in the city of Washington, d C. And look how
he was ostracized.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Not okay, Okay, I love my favorite joke set up
as I'm trying to formulate, I'm trying to formulate the joke.
I'm trying to.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
Formulate the joke that's literally seventy percent of my life. Okay,
should we do our first segment?

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Sam?

Speaker 1 (23:24):
What do you think that would be such a beautiful idea?

Speaker 3 (23:26):
George, We like to do a preliminary first segment with
every guest called straight Shooters, And in this segment, we
ask you a series of rapid fire questions to gauge
your familiarity with and complicity and straight culture. All you
have to do is choose this thing or this other thing.
And the one rule is you can't ask any follow

(23:48):
up questions about how the game works.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
Are you ready? Yeah? Okay, Lauren manifesting a better life
for beta testing women to be your.

Speaker 5 (23:58):
Wife, manifesting a better life, okay, Lauren.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Putting a playlist on shuffle, or getting your face hit
in a kerfuffle.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
Shuffle, catching a matinee, or matching with a man who's gay.

Speaker 6 (24:14):
Matching with a man is gay.

Speaker 5 (24:16):
Well, it's difficult.

Speaker 6 (24:16):
I always say, I do like mattinee as well, Okay.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Lauren carry Bradshaw or Terry Bradshaw.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Carrie, we tell ourselves stories in order to live. Or
that new song is boring. I wanted it to give
the new song is boring.

Speaker 6 (24:31):
I wanted it to give.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
Okay, full transparency or hair transplant for.

Speaker 6 (24:36):
Me, full transparency. These are too easy. I listened to
you with what's the director just now? You gave her
much better?

Speaker 3 (24:47):
Oh wow? Well, you know you're catching us on a Friday,
and it's Taylor Swift Day. So we've wereen really busy
all day. Okay, the critics in the hot the critic
critic has entered the chat. Y'all okay, the this itch
won't go away, or this bitch is good at ballet.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
This bitch is good at ballet, okay, Toblarne or hold
the phone, hold the phone, wow wow Okay.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
So we rank each guest performance on a scale of
zero to one thousand doves. I would say, you know,
I would say generally I would go in a sort
of like seven hundred to eight hundred direction, But because
of your bold criticism of us, I think that actually
elevates you to a nine p fifty, a clean nine fifty.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
What do you think, Sam?

Speaker 1 (25:35):
I one hundred percent agree.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
We haven't been put in our place like that in
a while, and it really actually felt correct.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
You know, I actually do have to, I mean a
guess to like really be like, no, this isn't good enough.
It's so refreshing, it's so good. I do feel that generally, George,
I don't know how you feel. I do feel like
we are somewhat in our backlash era.

Speaker 5 (25:55):
Are you experiencing blacklash or we are experiencing backlash?

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Sam? Should we talk about the specifics of the backlash?
Do you think I would?

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Actually, I'm not opposed to it.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
So, Lauren, we had American comedian Kathy Griffin on the podcast,
and she told, you know, listen, I as a sort
of basic gay teen. I loved Kathy Griffin. I was,
you know, she was appealing to stupid little gay guys

(26:25):
that like pop culture.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
That was me, I was. I was all in to me.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
She's always been a white whale. I've always been like,
it would be so fun to have her on the podcast.
How funny for the two of us to be talking
to Kathy Griffin. So she did the podcast. I thought
she was very funny. At some point out of nowhere,
she went on a full sort of I would say
rant about how we need to vote blue no matter who,
and that if we don't, then potentially we as gay

(26:52):
guys would lose our rights. And the problem there, I
think is twofold. A you know, the idea of voting
blue no matter who, you know, amid everything happening in
the world right now, amid Joe Biden sending billions of
dollars to a military aid to Israel is a complicated
a complicated statement, to say the least. Second being her

(27:14):
sort of implication that as two gay men, the only
thing we would care about is like gay marriage being
repealed and not you know, innocent people being murdered.

Speaker 6 (27:23):
Yeah, fair, all fair.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
So then we, you know, we do not know this
woman at all. Like her doing this podcast was like
exciting for us because we're like, this is like an icon,
Kathy Grip, and so she and we respect her, you
respect her, and so we were like, okay, like it
was sort of like, let's just try to move on.
And people were like, but why don't.

Speaker 6 (27:43):
You guys edit? So that's all the other podcasts edit?

Speaker 2 (27:47):
I kind of well, I felt like it was so
that was Sam's and sorry Sam.

Speaker 3 (27:52):
Sam wanted to cut the rent and I was sort
of like, I find it maybe I have such a
like joker sense of humor. To me, it's literally so
funny and I and I'm sorry to make light of it,
but it's so funny to me for the two of us,
two gay guys that literally like we we literally had
an episode where the topic, the straight topic was voting,

(28:13):
like we have we so we've made jokes about this
sort of like vote blue no matter who sentiment before.
Everyone knows our politics, everyone knows their sense of humor.
To me, it's so funny to have Kathy Griffin, like iconic,
you know, sixty three year old celebrity, you know, yelling
at us to vote blue no matter who. And I,
to me, I was like, our audience is with us.

(28:34):
They will also find it really funny.

Speaker 5 (28:38):
From this journalism kind of like you're giving her, you're
you know, you're interviewing her that you know, letting her
hang herself or whatever. Like, yes, that's like the you know,
if you if you were The New York Times, you
would publish that as well. But unfortunately you're the victims
of homophobia exactly, and you just aren't given, like allowed
the same standards.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, I mean, and I really true, I George, I
think it's so beautiful that you respected our audience that much.
I was like, this is a little bit too high
level of a joke.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
You just don't want to Yeah, you just like don't
want to do it. Okay, I mean I get it,
and listen, But also.

Speaker 6 (29:13):
What do you expect from her?

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Didn't you do that?

Speaker 5 (29:15):
What was the weird thing she did with like the
Trump head?

Speaker 2 (29:17):
That's no way like what but that's what.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
So that was a big part of it is she
was saying, like, you know, she she took she did
this photo shoe where she was holding Trump's head, and
because of that, she lost like basically six years of work.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
She was like put on government lists.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
I mean, she was explaining all of this to us,
and Okay, yes, I understand that if with no context,
you're like, why is this lady you know, yelling at
my two favorite podcasters?

Speaker 2 (29:40):
But I don't know.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
I was like, how fun, Like she was in the
center of everything. She literally couldn't work for six years
because of a photo shoot she did where she held
Trump's bloody head like that is funn I knew.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
I mean, I you can just I you know, Lauren,
sometimes I have toxic levels of empathy. And I could
just feel our listeners listening to it, Like when I
was listening to it and I was like, they're going
to be mad at this, and it was like I
was hoping I was wrong, and I was hoping that
George's joker level humor would shine through. But I just

(30:11):
so we've sort of been dealing with people being like
so mad at us for like the last two weeks.
In a way it's like like is it's like, so,
I'm struggling with it, But.

Speaker 6 (30:21):
Don't you feel like it's a bit fake? It's it's
they're going through the motions a bit.

Speaker 5 (30:25):
I do feel like in the last couple of months
there has been a resurgence of people trying to make.

Speaker 6 (30:35):
Twitter politics happen again.

Speaker 5 (30:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yeah, they're trying.

Speaker 5 (30:39):
They're like, look, we're really mad, this is going to
destroy our society, and like I'm gonna yell at you
and I'm going to cyber bully you, and it's kind
of like you got it's a little bit sweet, No, Like.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
No, I know what I mean. There is something about
it that.

Speaker 5 (30:55):
They lack a new impetuous for like talk like being
in public, and so so they're like latching on to
like twenty twenty whatever stupid.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
This is exactly it talk about Taylor Swift fall out
of a coconut tree, the yelling. I'm sort of like,
didn't we do we did this, and we like saw
how stupid we all looked, and and we've like fully
unpacked how silly that like we all looked.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
No, it's really true when I think about something confusing.

Speaker 6 (31:26):
They were trying to cancel me for being a bad writer.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
I didn't even Lauren.

Speaker 5 (31:31):
They were trying to cant listen.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
You brought it up, not what happened, But.

Speaker 5 (31:35):
I'm just like I had.

Speaker 6 (31:36):
Everybody online was going insane about what.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
Well, you know, Lauren, they called you. They were not
an adler of looking at your phone a lot.

Speaker 3 (31:44):
That's not even bad.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
I don't think that's bad.

Speaker 6 (31:48):
About looking at your phone.

Speaker 2 (31:50):
Yeah, that's a good thing to be.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
Why would that's literally like everyone looks at their phone
a lot. What I mean, I guess would you rather
be Elizabeth hardway of? I don't know, writing listicles for
BuzzFeed dot Com I don't know.

Speaker 6 (32:06):
Yeah, it's not what I'm like, you guys are making.

Speaker 5 (32:10):
Well, I don't know, it was really I was really
it was really like people were trying to bring us
back to twenty sixty.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
Well, you know, it's of course there's a certain there's
a certain beauty to it, of course because uh, you know,
as a longtime reader of yours, you you were one
of the voices that was publishing sort of similar pieces
at that time.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
But do you is there a part of you that's
like a.

Speaker 6 (32:35):
Math error in my pieces? George?

Speaker 2 (32:39):
What is the math there?

Speaker 5 (32:40):
I believe there was an arithmetic error in the book
Forum article about me, among other among other fact checking
foibles that they had there.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
That is interesting, okay, no, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (32:53):
Yeah, of course obviously, but also that I guess my
feeling is like, oh I wish I'd had my period
of un earned unanimous praise and like money, you know
what I mean?

Speaker 6 (33:03):
Like, you know, when I did it, I was like,
this person is is really famous.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying.

Speaker 5 (33:10):
Well, and they had never had a negative review. I'm like,
I have been getting this internection. I'm like, you guys, like,
you're making me feel bad. I was doing this since
I was twenty four years old. I wrote a takedown
of Rock sand Gig. Do you think you're gonna.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
Make me like episodes? Okay?

Speaker 3 (33:27):
So Lauren, in your ideal world, I feel like, So,
do you think you should have this book that you
just published no judgment?

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (33:35):
You think this should have had sort of all positive
reviews so that then someone a spunky, young twenty four
year old writer could come, you know, for your next
book and really take you down.

Speaker 6 (33:46):
That would be I mean good for them.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (33:48):
Do I think that it should have been that way?
I don't know. I don't like to engage in counterfactuals.

Speaker 5 (33:55):
Okay, but my feeling is like this again, google it,
you know what I mean? Like google it.

Speaker 6 (34:03):
Of course I'm not like upset about like do whatever
you want.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
No, you don't seem upset at all.

Speaker 5 (34:08):
It's funny.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
It's funny speaking of our backlash era.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Yes, speaking of our backlash air.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Could we get into our topic.

Speaker 3 (34:14):
Let's in our topic, because talk about something that's going
to have a backlash, I mean not.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
I really feel like we are like to be completely or.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Being a little reputation era right now, it's so.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
Reputation era in a way that I'm not sure. I mean,
don't get me wrong, I hope we have a delegate
on this episode. Yes, yes, yes, but the backlash era,
I'm not emotionally good at dealing with it. Like I
get very obsessed with like what people are saying about you. Yeah, yeah,
and it like is not chill. And but maybe this

(34:45):
is exposure therapy. And I hope my reputation era is
strong and you know, talking about Taylor Swift and now
our topic, I'm sure I've got to get my armor on, girls,
I've got to be stronger than ever before.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
I think it's.

Speaker 6 (34:59):
Important to hear your opinions about this.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
Yeah, I think it's important to not we can't suddenly
like for the rest of time only be talking about
things we you know, read online. But I think it's
okay to be like this is contained, you know, for
this episode, in this conversation. We want to we want
to really just like here's what happened, here's how we feel,
and then we can we can move on perfect. So anyway, Lauren,

(35:23):
what is the straight topic you've brought with you today
and what do you think makes it straight.

Speaker 5 (35:28):
I have brought with me several boyfriends because we are
talking about polyamory.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Wow wow wow wow.

Speaker 5 (35:38):
Now it's a bit contentious to say this is straight. Obviously,
the quias, as they might say in Boston, the location
of the most recent polyamory narrative that we were treated
to on the intern. Yes, uh would say the queers
pioneered this practice as we're response to various oppressive forces

(36:03):
in our society. But like all things that you guys pioneer,
we take them and ruin them. So that's what we're
talking about today.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Wow.

Speaker 6 (36:15):
And why is it straight?

Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (36:17):
Because a bunch of dorks have made it an identity
on the internet in order.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
To score points. I see.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
So it's become like a competitive it's become something that,
like forcibly makes you interesting when not much else is there.

Speaker 5 (36:38):
Let's say yes, and I think to the sort of
discourse polyamory that I think we're going to discuss is
very managerial.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
No, okay, wait, I do I do agree that his
manager I mean again, the most sort of like, I think,
the most compelling argument against this the kind of the
kind of only twenty four straight coded polyamory that we
read about in the pages of the New York Times
of the Atlantic. Is that it is like people that
are it's it's this way to basically like put romantic

(37:12):
love into spreadsheets and live with eight people and have
like schedules of when you are in bed with whom.

Speaker 6 (37:19):
Yeah, and so it's sort of yeah, well, I also think, sorry,
I did mean to interrupt you.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
Please.

Speaker 5 (37:24):
I also think there is a way that it is
trying to put like the normal emotions of monogamy. So
you know, you want to cheat on your husband of
fifteen years, it's total, it is it's a sort of
logic based it's like a logic and reason based calculus
about how you're going to live your romantic life, right,
so you know you're not gonna it's it's true, you're

(37:46):
not going to sleep with the same person for the
rest for the rest of your life that you met
when you were twenty seven.

Speaker 6 (37:52):
If we may use like a sort of straight, a
straight timeline, You're just not going to do that.

Speaker 5 (38:00):
But I think in the last ten or fifteen years,
there has been a real emphasis on being a good person.
You know, you can't you know, anti red flag, you know,
living healthy, like manifesting your best life kind of thing,
which means you can't have an affair, right, you can't
dump your husband because you need to be living with
your husband forever.

Speaker 6 (38:20):
So you have to sort of do this kind of
rules based thing ethically and m or whatever.

Speaker 5 (38:28):
And then you just keep legislating, is my experience and
understanding like that, You just keep another a new situation arises,
and then you must create more rules, and then a
new situation arise, and you create more rules because there
is a resistance.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
So it's a less intuitive. Yeah, it's a less like
intuitive embodied existence. And it's a more like we are
calling meetings to modify the Bill of Rights every you know,
two days or whatever, and we're having house meetings and
it is by consensus and we are voting. It's basically,
what if relationships we're voting.

Speaker 6 (39:01):
What if relationships were voting. We're having a caucus.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
We're having a caucus. Yes, yeah, that's good, I get it.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
No no joke formulation necessary. That's when I was ready
to go.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Lauren.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
So you said, bringing multiple boyfriends to the conversation, do
you participate in polyamory or are just a viewer?

Speaker 5 (39:23):
I resist the terms and I don't. Well, I talk
about it now, I guess I do talk about it.
If the man I am dating tries to use a term,
I throw a fit and yeah.

Speaker 6 (39:40):
It immediately.

Speaker 5 (39:42):
But but I am an open relationship. If you have
read some of my work, this would not be a
surprise to you.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
Well, I did want to ask, you know, and thank
you for a team. You're right up for it.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
I remember I first thought, okay, we got to get
her on years or not years, but months before your book,
your latest book was released, when I read your essay
and Harper is about going on the Goop Cruise, which
was an incredibly fun read, and you sort of off
handedly were like, well, I had two boyfriends, one was
straight and one was gay. So obviously I'm going to

(40:17):
bring the gay boyfriend to the cruise because he has
a sense of irony, which first of all perfect, you know,
perfect way to put that, but also sort of an
iconic thing to mention and then never go back to
just a straight woman being like anyway, So my gay
boyfriend has a sense of irony, so I'm going to
bring him to the Goop cruise. Is everyone on board great?
So basically we get there and it is random sauce.

(40:39):
So I want to know sort of. I mean, I
do think it's funny that I don't know, Like I
think the idea is that we're supposed to be like
Lauren is known for her literary takedowns, when in fact,
you should be known for calling your boyfriend gay on
the cover story for Harper's.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
Calling you gay.

Speaker 6 (40:57):
Gay, he's gay. He's probably so gay up.

Speaker 5 (41:01):
Like we were saying earlier, I don't shy away from
getting into a little bit of a scrape. And I
don't know if we've mentioned this, but I live in Berlin,
the hot bed of sexual freedom, and.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
He didn't thought that was Boston.

Speaker 5 (41:18):
And now, yeah, this was a couple of years ago.
We sort of paved the way for the Boston polycule
that was featured in the New York Times this week.
I think that in Berlin, especially in sort of expat
like writer, artists, academic, intellectual party people mill you than

(41:38):
I am, a part of the queer politics sort of
did like a there was like no more queer to go, right,
So so they had the gay guys in particular sort
of had to turn around because they reached the end
of the line and they're like.

Speaker 6 (41:55):
What else can we do?

Speaker 2 (41:56):
This is literally perfect. Yeah, Sam and I talk about
this all the time.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
Sam and I talk about this all the time that
there's like people are so liberated, and specifically gay guys
are so liberated that really the only other way to
go is to go full horseshoe theory and date a woman.
And we were saying in a previous episode, the most
radical thing for us to do, and I'm not even
talking about like a woman, maybe a sort of more
masculine presenting woman or someone who is gender nonconforming, I

(42:21):
think the most radical thing Sam and I could do
was date Sydney Sweeney. Like it just go truly like
date like the most porny, like straight man's fantasy of
what a woman is.

Speaker 5 (42:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
Yeah, And so it's honestly really inspiring that that's already
happening in Berlin.

Speaker 6 (42:37):
What you say, I'm on the level of Sidney Sweeney,
Thanks very much.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
I think you would look at that well, as we've
already discussed, you're more of a Taylor Swift, but I
think you're certainly on the spectrum.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
No.

Speaker 5 (42:49):
When I was doing this, a couple of my friends
were like, but Laura, in your queer and I was like,
what are you talking about? And they were like, you
wear baggy pants. And I was like, what do you
mean I wear bagging pants and they were like, you
wear bag of pants. You have two boyfriends. Your boyfriends gay.
I was like, maybe you could say I'm in a
queer relationship. I see, but I'm not going to go
around saying I'm a queer woman, which means something else,

(43:12):
and I'm obviously not. And if a man had two girlfriends,
you would not call him queer. You would be like,
my guy's doing.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
A great job.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Well he might call himself queer.

Speaker 5 (43:22):
Yeah, but these days, Yeah, my former gay werfriend did
not fall out of the coconut tree.

Speaker 6 (43:29):
He is a part of the context of everything that
came for me.

Speaker 5 (43:31):
So so you know, this is kind of like I'm
not aware that this is happening, but I have since
done some sociological investigations and indeed, like I was like
in a spin class and I like met a friend
of a friend and this guy was sort of like
talking to me about something and I said, oh, you know,
like I like I had this gay boyfriend, and he

(43:54):
was like.

Speaker 6 (43:54):
I'm a gay guy and I have a girlfriend and
I was like, what what?

Speaker 5 (43:58):
I never met another one, so so it was sort
of common and I think, uh, it would be serious
for a moment.

Speaker 6 (44:06):
The gay Uh, I don't know how it described this.

Speaker 5 (44:10):
Let's say the gay sex culture in Berlin is somewhat
abusive and I and alienating is my understanding.

Speaker 6 (44:18):
And I think many people have figured.

Speaker 5 (44:24):
Out ways to deal with that, maybe like there's no
boyfriend for me here. They're all horrible and like be yes, yeah,
and and you.

Speaker 6 (44:38):
Know the related Historically the relationship between straight women and
gay and has been quite strong.

Speaker 5 (44:42):
Sure, and now if you have a sort of open
sex culture where you can like you know, nobody's like
expecting you to do missionary or whatever, like you can do.

Speaker 6 (44:52):
Also, you know, it's not so unusual or strange.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
I guess yeah, I mean it's funny.

Speaker 5 (44:58):
You know.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
What you're describing is it's like a sort of a
woman that has always identified as straight later in life
being like, you know what, men suck, and then she
starts dating a woman. You're describing that but for a
gig guy, which I think is so new and radical,
like a gay guy literally being like ladies, men suck
and then go and then going and dating.

Speaker 5 (45:18):
Yeah, yeah, and the and the and the ladies are
like they do suck, and you can kind of like
bond about that in a way that is initially quite excited,
and then you realize like, oh, you're also a man though, Yeah,
which side are you on?

Speaker 3 (45:31):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (45:32):
And so so so it it.

Speaker 5 (45:33):
It does have let's say, radical potential, or it feels
that way and not unprecedented, but.

Speaker 6 (45:43):
It's interesting, it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (45:46):
But the reason I did it, you know, anyway, the
craft portion of this conversation is like, yeah, I dropped
that information in because it's not super relevant to the
ostensible topic of my piece, but uh, it is the
funniest way to do it.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Yeah. Wow.

Speaker 3 (46:05):
So I have a question in terms of the straightness
of polyamory, like, do do we feel like if there
are two, broadly speaking, two types of polyamory that are
representing the media, I would say one of them is
a sort of like democratized polycule and the other one
is like, I'm in an open relationship with a primary
partner and i am a quote unquote allowed to have

(46:26):
other flings. Which of those would you say is straighter?
And which of them would you say is gayer.

Speaker 5 (46:33):
The polycule is straighter, and the open sort of agree.
I feel Flings is gayer, for sure.

Speaker 3 (46:39):
I agree, even though in theory you would think that
the polycule is more queer because it's so communal and
it's so like Copenhagen.

Speaker 5 (46:47):
Yeah, but it's all like I don't want to be
I think, like I don't really want to be around
like somewhat like annoying people that you're going out with
for some reason.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
You know, I mean, because you know what it is.
You're not actually in a commune. You're in a startup
like you are, that is what it's. You are in
a we work and you have you are sharing a
shared desk, you are in a pod with other people
that are on their MacBooks.

Speaker 5 (47:14):
Yeah, and the group chat thaying the shared calendar and
the weird denial of reality. I don't think like denying
reality is particularly gay, right, Like I think I.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
Don't know, sure, sure, well, I think no, this is
an interesting point because I'm on the one hand, like I.

Speaker 6 (47:36):
Don't really know if this is true, but I think
this is a fruitful topic of conversation.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
Yeah, yeah, it is. Denying This is actually great. Well, okay,
this is a great questionly.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
A rich tradition for queer people to deny reality like
that is like I'm living my fantasy blah blah blah
blah blah, Like I I'm not rich, but I feel
rich and that's enough.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
And you know, so, just the idea of performance, like
the idea that we are at all times performing, the
idea that all the world's a stage, all of that
is very much like denying basic.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Famous LGBTQ icon Shakespeare said that exactly.

Speaker 5 (48:12):
But is it not creating reality?

Speaker 2 (48:14):
I don't.

Speaker 5 (48:15):
I don't understand this distinction between the performance and reality.
I don't think that there is necessarily a legitimate distinction, right, Like,
if you spend half your time performing, that's who you
are and it's your life.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
And of course that's the real meaning of performativity, is
that it's for something to be a performance.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Doesn't mean that it's fake. It just means that it
is being performed and thus being made.

Speaker 5 (48:35):
Yes, yes, but I don't think that the straight polycule,
sorry that they would be a queer polycule, because yes,
some queer relationships happening in there.

Speaker 6 (48:45):
That is not performing, And maybe it's just that the
performance is bad.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
M's a yeah, you're in a black box theater. It's
your friends, it's your friend's friend. You're going there to
support and at the end you're like, well, you know
they work together really well.

Speaker 6 (49:01):
Yeah, you're like, well, is the thing where it's like
living their dream?

Speaker 1 (49:05):
You know, it took a lot of emails to get here,
Like you have to admit this was like many people
were called in and organizationally, this was difficult. Other than that,
is it inspired? I'm not sure.

Speaker 3 (49:17):
Yeah, and I think that Okay, So then I think
that if we're going back to denying reality, I think
if you were to argue that denying reality is straight,
and not to get political, but like the idea of
straight denial of reality is sort of like denying, for example,
denying that inequality exists, denying that there are problems in
the world, and going about your day. That is a

(49:39):
straight version of denying reality. It's not like putting on
a fun outfit. It's being like it's being like I'm composting.

Speaker 6 (49:46):
Yeah, well, now I guess you paid.

Speaker 5 (49:48):
Sort of let's historicize this, so you could say that
straight monogamy was denying reality like this like fake like
idea that you were going to like possess each other
for all time, and you would never never step out
or or whatever. You would never want to the extent
that it would ruin your life to do something besides monogamy.
Now they've sort of pendulum swing too far in the

(50:08):
other direction, which is like, I'm going to deny the
fact that this is deeply weird and fucked up that
I'm in an eight person polycula and I hate these people.
And I watch my primary partner who I'm in love with,
like have sex with some other person and they text
me afterwards and they're like, oh, well, got cream pie
or whatever they do, and like like this thing is
accasy stup and porn like like de sexualized porn language

(50:32):
that they And it's also sort of denying reality because they're.

Speaker 6 (50:36):
Like, I went to therapy for several you know, I
don't have a problem with that.

Speaker 5 (50:40):
I'm really happy for her actually, And I think among
many poly people there is a sort of like people
they feel distraught that they're jealous or they're di straw
that they have, like they don't like that their primary
partner is falling in love with someone else.

Speaker 6 (50:56):
Yeah, they're like I need to get rid of this
because it isn't enlightened.

Speaker 5 (50:58):
It isn't you know, it's like patriarchal or whatever like
blah blah blah blah blah. And you're like, no, that's
a very obviously that's how you feel, and that doesn't
mean you need to act on it such that you
like ruin your life, but like you shouldn't, you know,
deny the fact that you're obviously jealous about that, right?

Speaker 2 (51:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (51:18):
So maybe what's what like compulsory heteromonogamy and you know,
hedonistic queer polycules have in common is that they aspire
to this sort of like simplified happiness. Like it's like
in the same way that you watch you know, Far
from Heaven or something, and it is this like fifties
version of a happy household and everyone has to conform

(51:41):
in a weird like fun house mirror way. The polycule
article is people every day waking up and looking in
the mirror and being like, I'm happy, I'm happy, I'm happy,
Like this is exactly I finally found a way to
be happy. And maybe the way out of both of
those things is to sort of like accept that any
given time you can feel a variety of feeling and

(52:03):
you can feel jealousy and you can feel bitterness, and
that is all part of a healthy relationship.

Speaker 6 (52:09):
Yeah, and you do is it healthy to discuss it all?

Speaker 5 (52:13):
Like we can questions about the processing element, which does
also come from like like queer like Berkeley culture.

Speaker 6 (52:23):
But Sam was gonna make a point first, Well.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
I guess I was going to ask a different question, George.
You made the joke earlier about like it's very tech
startup but honestly, and maybe it's just aeographic. There is
a link between straight poly and people that work in tech. Yes,
and like totally I want to understand why. Well, it's
burning man. It's literally like literally burning man.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
It's it's like it's you know, sort of like commodified
club culture, commodified like back to nature ideology.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
It is like whole Earth catalog.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
It is you know, people sort of like efficiency culture too.
It's like being like I can do this perfectly, Like
I've all my wants can be met and they can
be met on time and like and I'll reach like
a higher plane of productivity.

Speaker 5 (53:11):
Yeah, and I'll get all of the bad unproductive emotions
out by like working through this.

Speaker 6 (53:17):
But it's also about an investment mindset.

Speaker 5 (53:20):
Which is like, if I can only get over these
hang ups I have, then I will achieve sexual emotional
nirvana and I can continue to be productive like in
my like work life. Or I can retire early because
they also want to retire early and become millionaires, right,
so we can retire early in our pollyhouse and blah
blah blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
I've I've got it. Okay, this is the reality thing.
You're not trying to ignore reality. You're trying to escape reality.
You think there's a way to get out if you
can just do everything right, But the truth is there's
no escaping, and so it's better to like, yeah, get
used to feeling jealous, get used to being late, get
used to being unproductive some days and productive other days.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
I mean, are we being so like pull yourself up
from your by your bootstraps? Like I'm like, are we
now suddenly being conservative and telling people that are not
allowed to imagine new ways of of being with one another?

Speaker 1 (54:11):
I just mean I don't even mean don't be Polly.
I mean, like, don't be Polly as an excuse, like
as an escape from like what is reality? Like, don't
be Polly as an escape from unproductivity or or lack
of or don't be Polly as an escape of jealousy
and whatever.

Speaker 5 (54:29):
Yeah, what it means to like be a human in
the world. Like you can't like hack your way out
of it. But can I ask you, guys?

Speaker 6 (54:35):
What are your uh uh?

Speaker 5 (54:38):
What are your orientation?

Speaker 6 (54:39):
What are your what are your uh?

Speaker 4 (54:41):
We're both gay, you're gay, We're both in open relationship,
we're opistas, we're both in I would say long term
open relationships.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
But it's yeah, and like the question of like a
third you know, is sort of like I feel like
there's so many gay couples that like start open and
whatever and then like suddenly it's like and that's our boyfriend,
and I'm sort of like, yeah, go off, queen. There's
a difference to where it's not like and I am
Polly and I have been and it's just sort of

(55:13):
like there's a like, yeah, we are dating and now
we're dating him too, and in a way that I appreciate,
which is like the casualness and maybe, like queer people,
maybe that's a privilege of being gay, is that you
get to be more casual about it, whereas if you're
like straight, you don't get too.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
I do think that's a big part of it, is, like,
and it sort of sucks that for these for the
poly New York Times people, that they become these punchlines
when in fact they are just trying to have a
certain level of freedom that perhaps if you are already queer,
and if you are you know, if you are already
embedded in communities where like different romantic practices are at play,

(55:53):
you don't feel the need to constantly justify your actions
and put them in a sort of moral framework.

Speaker 5 (56:00):
And I think too, if polyseoth in particular, there is
a kind of evangelical approach or an evangelical impulse that
these people have, because especially poly stuff, you know, you
need more people to do it so that you can
fuck more people, right, Like, it's actually a sort of
it's a sort of like very like it's an ls Yeah,

(56:22):
it's an MLM. So you need people to participate in
it because first of all, you don't want people to
be like, you're a freak, get away from me.

Speaker 6 (56:29):
And also you don't want people to you know, you
want more people who.

Speaker 5 (56:33):
Are like kind of interested in it so that you
can like have relationships with them in the way that
you want to, because it is it can be alienating.

Speaker 6 (56:40):
I don't find a particularly aliening. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (56:44):
I was just gonna make a joke, which is that
if you were to, as two gay guys pick up
a third who was a woman, I do believe it
would not be casual and you would indeed.

Speaker 6 (56:53):
Have all sorts of issues experience talking about it.

Speaker 5 (57:00):
Yeah, but there is also another part of it that
is interesting to me, which is the talking and the
intimacy that that creates. And I think maybe some of
it is about like wanting more intimacy, wanting to know
people deeper, and wanting to know about your partner things

(57:21):
that would ordinarily be kept private. Right, So if I
have I'm having like a really huge crush on somebody,
and then I talk to my boyfriend about it, which
is not to say I do that. I don't really
do that. But if I do that, then he kind
of like has one over on the crush because he,
you know, we have a relationship and he sort of
talks to me about things that I can't talk to

(57:42):
that guy thought, Yeah, So the talking element I think
is sort of underrepresented, and the like let's make fun
of the poly people online because I agree with you guys,
like there is something beautiful about it or like interesting
about it totally.

Speaker 3 (57:59):
The crush thing is really fascinating because this really struck
me when I was watching Couple's Therapy, that show with
worn on that show, I mean, of course, so there
is a couple and one of them says, you know,
I told her I have a new crush, and the
complaint was that her girlfriend was not sort of excited

(58:20):
enough about her new crush. Like it's like everything needs
to be affirmed so much that I'm telling I am
telling my boyfriend I have a new crush. And not
only do I expect him to, you know, sort of
be okay with that conversation quote unquote, but I also
want him to affirm it and yes, stand it and
be like, oh my god, I'm so proud of you.
That must be so exciting that you have a new crush.
Tell me about it and we'll talk about it together.

Speaker 6 (58:42):
I feel like, my I just SIT's not me.

Speaker 5 (58:46):
I'm like, if my boyfriend is like, yeah, I think
that guy's great, you should go out with him, I'm.

Speaker 6 (58:50):
Like, don't say that.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
Yeah, no, you don't know.

Speaker 6 (58:56):
You should watch out for that guy, you don't know,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (58:59):
I'm like, I don't there's a certain amount of the
open relationship, which is like I want to maintain some
part of myself and I want to like be my
own person, and I want my freedom, and I don't
want you to participate in it, like quit stealing my stuff.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
That's a really good point.

Speaker 3 (59:14):
It's almost like, you know, the point of an open relationship,
I guess would be or part of the point would
be to be more free. But then if you are
discussing every little thing with your partner, then in fact,
it's almost like you are even more tied in a
sort of heteropatriarchal way. You're even more tied to your
primary partner, and you like are losing a sense of

(59:35):
like independence and privacy rather than gaining.

Speaker 5 (59:37):
Yeah, and it creates all these like other I don't know,
I'm a sort of like neurotic anxious person and that
like I'm like, what, you know, when do I have
to tell you that I'm going on a date?

Speaker 6 (59:46):
Like do I have to tell you now? Like should
I disclose this text message?

Speaker 5 (59:49):
Like this? It creates all this like bullshit that you
think about where you're like This was supposed to be fun, Like,
this was supposed to be.

Speaker 6 (59:55):
Liberal, like not liberated, but like free. Yeah exactly.

Speaker 5 (59:57):
Yeah, Like it was supposed to be easier, and now
it's because of this impetus to validate everyone's feelings as
opposed to an impetus to like deal with your own
feelings on your own time. Yeah, it creates like more
stress in some ways.

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
Yeah, every relationship you do need like some privacy, Like
you need a little bit of privacy in the relationship,
and it's weird to think that you don't. I'm like
obsessed with having a little bit of space to myself
and like, you know, honey, I like to perform a bit.
And so if you're seeing me at my worst all

(01:00:39):
the time, like if you see me at three pm
every Tuesday when I'm miserable, then you're not going to
find me very hot. So I'm like, don't look at
me now, like, let me be let me be private
and let me be cranky, and then you know, Friday
night you can see me in all my wonder and glory.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
That's right.

Speaker 5 (01:00:56):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
What I think actually would really help the situation is
if Taylor Swift joined a polycule for approximately six months
and then wrote an album about that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
Yes, that's really good.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
That's really good.

Speaker 6 (01:01:09):
Wow, that's a great idea.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Yeah, I really do think that's the last frontier.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
I mean, in our previously mentioned Backlash episode with Kathy Griffin,
we actually told Kathy Griffin that in trying to pivot
to a joke, we told Kathy Griffin that Taylor Swift
should be in a polycule with Joe and Jill Biden,
and I feel that she was just sort of.

Speaker 6 (01:01:26):
Like what, she didn't get it, But Kathy Griffin ever
replied like respond to.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
That, well, this is part of our many we this
is part of our many efforts, and I just want
to make it clear we adore Kathy Griffin, who are
so honored she came on, and I genuinely have so
much respect for her as a comic. But it was
just very funny that we kept trying to pivot when
she would say, like, you know, go into the vote
blue no matter who stuff. We would just try to
very kindly pivot to a joke. And so she was like,

(01:01:55):
you know, I think Taylor Swift, if she endorsed Joe Biden,
that would really like help us out. And we were like,
you know, it would be really funny if she was
in a throttle with Joe Biden and Joe Biden, but.

Speaker 6 (01:02:05):
She didn't funny.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
I think she found I think she got it. I
think she got I think she got it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
But I also think she felt that it was a
joke and was sort of like, well, I'm not kidding,
let's uh and it was of like yeah, yeah, right right,
but yeah, I don't know. I feel like this the
Polly discussion is like so uh, you know, in my
radical empathy complex because I am like, I do feel

(01:02:31):
like for the you know, quote unquote like heterosexual people
that are in poly situations, I could see why they'd
want to like, you know, defend it and be and
like have people have respect for it because it's so
maligned but in their in their community, but it is

(01:02:52):
there's a self seriousness to it that's unfortunately gonna be
a little laughable sometimes of course.

Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
But and also guess what, like the people that it's
also a self selecting group of people that are gree
to be in the New York Times feature, I think
there are probably, you know, there are people living in
polycules that are just like honestly reading that article and
being like, oh god, they're making us look bad. It's
like when I, you know, turn on my TV and
see all these gay guys. You know, it's it's a

(01:03:24):
self selecting group.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:03:26):
I don't know though when I was gonna suggest polyamor
for the topic, but I was like, you know, it
could do more nation to Field.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
Which Field is a really tough one.

Speaker 6 (01:03:38):
Yeah, Field the sex app for smart people.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 5 (01:03:43):
But the I don't know, I do find that a
lot of the people on it. I don't really use
it anymore, but like when you look at it, it's
it's a lot of branding, Like it's a lot of
like self branding as like what kind of poll you
are in the sort of like lower and low, you know,
sort of subgenre of Polly that you can be and
like what what are your weird roles and stuff?

Speaker 6 (01:04:04):
And I don't know, it's just.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
The like that was what was embarrassing about the New
York Times article two. It was all the self branding
of like he is jock football player, but I am
which Crystal.

Speaker 6 (01:04:18):
I know, do people really want to be like that?
Like do they really want to be like trapped in that?

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
I think about this All the time.

Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
People are looking for meaning and nothing everything is. Everything
is so uncertain and nebulous that I do think there's
a comfort you can take and being like I am cheerleader,
but where does it doesn't mean?

Speaker 5 (01:04:37):
But doesn't meaning come from the constantly cycling uncertainty and
the way that you respond that you meaning is not fixed?

Speaker 6 (01:04:45):
I don't know what do you mean?

Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
I feel they're so I I get. I mean people
just want to have control. I think more than meaning.
I think people want to have control. And that's like
like it's sort of like knowing, like what your favorite
movie is. Like it's like people like to be like
I know what my favorite movie is, therefore I know
who I am and it's.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
Like, well yes.

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
It's also just like identity is so complex that it's
so much easier rather than finding out fundamentally what kind
of person you are or something, it's easier to be
like I am a.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
Gryffindor should we do our final segment?

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
Yeah, Lauren, any final thoughts on polyamory.

Speaker 6 (01:05:29):
I don't have any final thoughts. It's not it's not
bad or good.

Speaker 5 (01:05:32):
I think I will say, you know, we're like Judge,
Judge judge, judge, judge, but it's it would even though
we all sort of do it in some way.

Speaker 2 (01:05:43):
Yeah, of course.

Speaker 6 (01:05:43):
I think the thing I will say, the thing that.

Speaker 5 (01:05:46):
I judge people for is being an obviously doomed monogamous relationship.

Speaker 6 (01:05:51):
Yes, yes, and and sort of being like I just
can't do it.

Speaker 5 (01:05:54):
This is the way that I am.

Speaker 6 (01:05:56):
And it's like, no, you're not.

Speaker 5 (01:05:57):
And there is something like really like moving and and
nice about the people who are like I'm going to
do this differently, even if they do a bad job
of it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
Right, I completely agree, And I think I don't want
anyone to take away from this that we are I
don't know, passing moral judgment on people who are in polycules,
if anything, judgment passing exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
There needs to be a different word for it, because
it's not that I'm like opposed to it's like a
type of person. It's almost like how like there's like
people who smoke weed and their stoner culture, like like
it's like it's not that I care, like I'm down
for different relationship styles. It's just like be normal about it,
be chill.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
I mean that's literally how I feel about Taylor Swift.

Speaker 6 (01:06:40):
Literally it's just how you guys feel about Tailor Swift.
It's the same. You don't They're not hurting you. Yeah,
it's fine if they do that.

Speaker 5 (01:06:48):
But if any of them wanted to get woken up
and come over and like listen to Lanada right like
you would welcome them.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
You would help them welcome with open arms. Our final
second that's called shout outs, and in this segment we
do pay homage to the grand straight tradition of the
radio shout out and just shout out to anything that
we are enjoying at all. So imagine it's two thousand

(01:07:16):
and one, you're at TRL shouting out to your squad
back home, but about anything that you are currently enjoying. George,
off the top of your head, do you have one?

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
So you know part of this, yeah, part of the
traditions that we think of them on the spot, just
like we would if we were put on the spot
on the radio. I I canduce one, it's not gonna
be super entertaining, but it is gonna be earnest and
something I genuinely recommend.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
Ok So I can go go for it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:40):
Okay, all right, what's up breaks the losers out there?
I want to give a shout out to my friend
David's substack. It's called the Arcades dot subseack dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
Now, okay, here's the thing. This is not one of
the He's not some some journalist railing about cancel culture.
I'll tell you that it is a.

Speaker 3 (01:07:59):
Subsec where each week you get a curated list of
things that are on auction. I'm talking furniture, design items,
whatever that he has looked through and curated for you,
and I have found some of them. I mean, we're
talking a giant glass table with huge legs. We are
talking a sort of like I'm looking at it now,

(01:08:20):
silver leaf shelf brackets that are currently going for it. Nope,
that link is broken, and we are talking. We are
talking about there was one time a life size sort
of sculpture, sculptural like set piece of Sigourney Weaver from
the Alien movie that they were like getting rid of
in some sort of like on set items auction that

(01:08:41):
they were doing or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
And so this is a big part of his life.
So he looks at auctions a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
And you know, rather than seeing all the cacophony of
all the different live auctioneers and all those websites, you
just get one email a week and it shows you
truly some of the most fun there is a bit.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
Okay. So there's a sculpture of a banana.

Speaker 3 (01:08:58):
And when it's peeled, it looks like a volva inside,
and that is made of I think, like pure hold on,
let me find it all right, it's ivory, so you
can't import it. So it is an ivory banana sculpture
that has sort of flies that are colored around it,

(01:09:20):
and then it is open and then you get a
sort of vaginal inside.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
Anyway, the arcades, that'subs dot com.

Speaker 6 (01:09:27):
So you're looking for a girlfriend, I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:09:32):
Really drawn to this vaginal scope sculpture.

Speaker 6 (01:09:36):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
That was beautiful? Okay, okay, what is a thoughtful thinkers
around the globe? I would like to give a shout
out to the new Chapel Rowan song good Luck Babe
So and this is a mixed, mixed, complicated conversation because
we are at a point where Chapel Roan is reached

(01:10:00):
a larger stage. She is growing rapidly. And you know,
I've been I've been standing, I've been you know, saying
I love her, I love her, I love her. This
new song is incredible, and I'm saying, Okay, now I'm
getting a little bit scared. We are at sort of
what I call Lizzo's pass, where she can either go

(01:10:20):
in a cool direction and be cool forever, or in
a not cool direction and be a shameful part of
my past that I was a stand And so I
am just so curious. Right now, all signs point to
the right direction and she will be cool forever. But
I have been proven wrong many times before, and I

(01:10:41):
love watching someone rise. I love right now. I'm obsessed
with her, and I keep expecting to enter my own
backlash air and it just keeps not happening. You want
someone to be a fluke, and then you're like, no,
she's really got the goods, and so chappel, I say,
shout out to you, You've got the goods. Good luck,
babe is such a hit, and you're at Lizo's pass.
Make the right choice. It's left or right, and you

(01:11:03):
have all the power to make the right choice. I
love your baby.

Speaker 2 (01:11:06):
Wow, Lizzo's pass, that's gonna be big.

Speaker 6 (01:11:10):
It's really good.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
I was thinking good.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
I mean there was a point. I mean, people forget
Lizzo was once the George the Piana Tao of Brooklyn.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
So I want to where it was, Lauren the.

Speaker 3 (01:11:24):
So Lauren, the context there is that I one I
met a guy that was trying to say krem de
la krem A accidentally said pieda tere. And so now
whenever something is sort of the krem de la krem
of something, we say it's the Piana terracing makes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
But yeah, there was a point where Lizzo was like
everyone was like, she's so cool, She's so amazing, She's awesome,
like like the mean gay guys that you like live
in New York.

Speaker 3 (01:11:45):
Yes, I mean she was like cool and she was
endorsed by Prince and she was from Minnesota and like
played the flute.

Speaker 6 (01:11:50):
She was playing the flute, and then she abused her employees.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
That's right, Yeah, Lizzo's pass.

Speaker 5 (01:11:57):
All right, all right, Lauren should I what's what's the paters?
I was going to do some object but you guys
both recommended things from culture. So I'm also gonna mention
shout out an artist. I purchased a rhizograph print from
this week. Her name is Maya Reverett. I was walking
down the street living my local community lifestyle here in Berlin,

(01:12:21):
and I went into a gallery and I saw this
great print show featuring works by more Revert, and I
bought a print from her.

Speaker 6 (01:12:32):
And it is a picture of a sort of name plate.

Speaker 5 (01:12:36):
On an apartment building with little buttons. And what I
like about this print that I bought is it could
have gone terribly wrong. I could have been really twee,
but she is incisive enough and smart enough to have
labeled these name plates in a funny way. And I
am going to read the nameplates that you can theoretically

(01:12:56):
does in this picture. Okay, perfect, So it's a just
summarize again. It is an apartment name plate with the buzzer,
so you can buzz indulgent father figure, can genital, nay sayer,
plain spoken peer, self effacing acolyte, unbothered, enabler, or clairvoyant confidante.

(01:13:19):
Like I said, it could have been twee and stupid,
but it's actually pretty smart.

Speaker 6 (01:13:24):
So shout out to Mourra. Great work. I'm very happy
and I'm excited to frame this and rid on my wall.

Speaker 5 (01:13:30):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
And you know I'll tell you one thing you won't
find that on Wikipedia. So eat Dick book four U.

Speaker 6 (01:13:37):
No, we love we love book for him.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
It's a very no, we love book for I actually we.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
Hear at stradio allowed love book for him.

Speaker 3 (01:13:43):
I actually do love com back in. Yes, I love
book for him. And they're still getting lips of flap
in all these years later. So welcome back, Welcome back.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
I love being a tricoastal book forum based podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:13:55):
Me too, and and we'll see you. We'll see you
in Berlin, by the way. Last question, Lauren Germany Gayer straight.

Speaker 6 (01:14:03):
Oh it's deeply closeted.

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
Surely, Yeah, I agree, Well it sounds hot to me.
I'm coming.

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
All right, Lauren, Thanks so much for doing the pod.

Speaker 6 (01:14:14):
Thank you, guys.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
Lauren's new book is called No Judgment. Lauren's novel it's
called Fake Accounts. Anything else you would like to promote
any any upcoming television or film projects.

Speaker 6 (01:14:24):
No, no, no more projects.

Speaker 5 (01:14:26):
We're in repose currently. Yes, yes, we're training. We're in training.

Speaker 6 (01:14:32):
Let's say beautful.

Speaker 2 (01:14:34):
Well, thanks for doing the Thanks for doing the pod.
Bye podcast, and now want more.

Speaker 3 (01:14:40):
Subscribe to our Patreon for two extra episodes a month,
discord access and more by heading to patreon dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
Slash Stradia Lab and.

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
For all our visual learners, free full length video episodes
are available on our YouTube.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
Now get back to work.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

The Breakfast Club

Dateline NBC

Decisions, Decisions

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}"Polyamory" w/ Lauren Oyler

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}The Breakfast Club

Dateline NBC

Decisions, Decisions

All Episodes

"Polyamory" w/ Lauren Oyler

The Breakfast Club