November 5, 2024 • 45 mins
Today, Josh and Chuck dive into part one of their two-part suite on ADHD.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody. In today's episode and in part two, we
talk very frankly about ADHD and all that that means
over the lifetime of a person who has it. So
if you're a parent with a kiddo who has ADHD,
maybe considered listening by yourself first before you share it
with them. Just a thought. Hope you enjoy these episodes.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and
there's Charles w chuck'bryan, and there's Jerry Jerome Roland. You
put the three of us together and you got yourself
a podcast called Stuff you Should Know.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
That's right. And this is the.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Sort of long simmering we've had it on the back
burner down to as low as a consummer. You had
many many months the ADHD. What is now to be
a two part episode because we've had I mean, that's
not why we're splitting it up, but we have had
a lot of requests for this over the years, and
you know, it's big that could certainly be more than
(01:12):
two episodes. And as much as I wanted to try
and split this up into AD and HD for fun,
and it kind of doesn't work that way, so we're
just gonna split it up into two parts.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I think you're more thinking of ac DC.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Oh, okay, that's that's what I think it is. Yeah,
I gotcha, No, chuck.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Instead, today we're talking about ADHD, which stands for attention
deficit hyperactivity disorder. Kind of wordy, but it really does
get the point across because with ADHD, I'm sure a
lot of people are familiar with it, especially the people
who requested it. It's a I'm not exactly sure exactly
(01:51):
what kind of disorder it is, whether it's a mental disorder,
a personality disorder, an externalizing disorder. There's actually a lot
of debate about it, but essentially, it's where people have
a lot of trouble paying attention, sitting still focusing, and
a bunch of other stuff that we'll talk about, and
you put it all together and it can make life
kind of hard to navigate. And at first we'll talk
(02:15):
about it a lot more. But kids, it used to
be like little boys fidgeting essentially was what ADHD or
ADD at the time was considered. But over time it's
really kind of expanded. We've realized way more girls have
it than we thought before, and we've also come to
realize that adults have it too, and that's a I mean,
it's a really big, huge disorder, and a lot of
(02:36):
people just kind of use it as shorthand, like, you know,
I forgot my keys, it's my ADHD or something like that.
But the more you know about it, the more you
realize it's a genuinely debilitating disorder that people have.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, and sometimes you may lose your keys.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
It's true, that is a big part of it. I mean,
they're not wrong about that.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
One for sure.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
So you know, when it comes to something like this,
that is only and I mean, honestly, in the last
like twenty five ish years, really come more into focus
as far as our understanding of it.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
When you look.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Back through medical and you know, psychiatric literature, you're going
to see it pop up. They just didn't know what
it was at the time. And in this case you
can probably go back all the way to the eighteenth
century with a Scottish physician named Sir Alexander Crichton, who
in his seventeen eighty nine book talked about children who
(03:29):
were unable to focus on one thing at a time
and you know, it's one of those clear cases kind
of like, oh, well, it was probably somebody with ADHD.
It is not just a modern condition because kids eat
too much sugar and they have screens in their lives.
Screens can we'll talk about that. Can certainly, you know,
make things worse, But it's not like, oh, because people
(03:52):
are so busy and there's too many distractions these days,
and back in the olden times when there were no distractions,
people didn't suffer from something like this. It's just not
true when you hear about some of these old descriptions.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah, no, not at all. And our understanding of it
has progressed like over the centuries. But it is interesting
that it started in the eighteenth century because I mean
Crichton nailed it on the head, like he's like, there's
definitely something here, and I guess it just kind of
stayed there for a little while until nineteen oh two
when a pediatrician from the UK named Sir George Frederick.
(04:24):
Still ironically, yeah, I thought that too. He described children
who had a defect of moral control, which is essentially
saying that these are kids who have troubled delaying gratification,
not thinking about negative consequences when they carry out actions,
and that's impulsivity. That's what we call it today, is impulsivity.
(04:48):
And that's what Still was essentially describing at the time.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Yeah, in the thirties, some more descriptors came along from
the courtesy of some German physicians I named Franz Kramer
and Hans pol No in this case talking about more
of the hyperactivity side of things. And then about five
years after that, still in the nineteen thirties, in nineteen
thirty seven, a big I guess breakthrough came along when
(05:13):
a doctor for the Rhode Island Facility for Children with
neurological problems, saying Charles Bradley was doing an experiment where
he was doing a imaging test on the brain, and specifically,
in this case with kids, he was draining some brain
or some fluid around the brain. Rather gave the kids headaches,
he treated them with benza dream, which is an amphetamine,
(05:37):
And what he found out was, Wow, this doesn't seem
to make any intuitive sense, but giving these children amphetamines
is at least for about half of them, made them
less vigety and more focused, and all of a sudden
you're onto a pharmaceutical potential, pharmaceutical treatment.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, I mean, what a way to accidentally stumble into that,
because even today we're not exactly sure how stimulants like
take care of ADHD symptoms. We just know they really
really work. Luckily, this doctor was like quick complaining, take
some benz adream and shut up little.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Kids, and back then the kids obeyed, So.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
There was a so that was actually kind of a
diversion nineteen thirty seven when when Charles Bradley discovered this
that amphetamines treat ADHD, it didn't like take off like wildfire,
because there was an interim period between then and like
the fifties where psychiatrists and psychologists were like, all this
stuff needs to just be talked out through psychoanalysis. That's
(06:38):
how you treat you know, mental disorders. And in the
fifties finally people were like, no, let's start prescribing drugs.
And one of the first companies was Siba Geige pharmaceutical company.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
I mean, you're definitely going to go out of business
if that's the name of your pharmaceutical company. But they're
the first ones who developed Riddlin. And it turns out
that the guy who developed the drug leandro penzone penizone.
His wife was named Rita and he named it as.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
That's right, lovely Rita.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
So it was the first half of the twentieth century
when things started to change, you know, you know not
I guess I could say begin in earnest as far
as researching this kind of thing. A lot of like
research into brain injuries were happening at the time, and
they thought that, well, hey, this is what's going on
(07:32):
with any kind of developmental issue. It's almost certainly a
brain injury. That can be the case for sure with
all kinds of developmental issues, including ADHD in this case.
But in the nineteen sixties that started to go out
of favor a little bit and they started to realize that, hey,
a lot of this stuff, there are a lot of
actually distinct conditions, and you can't just lump them all
(07:54):
in there and say it's because a kid hit his
head when they were young.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
No. So in the late sixties, the DSM two, the sequel,
the introduced to diagnosis called hyperkinetic Reaction of childhood and
it's essentially ADHD that they were talking about, And this
is the first time it showed up in psychiatry or
it's like, this is actually a thing. We just aren't
clear what to name it yet, clearly because we're calling
(08:19):
it hyperkinetic reaction of childhood. And within a decade and
a half we finally had it nailed down to attention
deficit disorder ADD, which people of our age, that was
what the name we were first exposed to. For sure,
it was not ADHD, this new fangled version. It was
ad D and that's the way it was, and you.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Liked it, right, right.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
ADD had a couple of subtypes depending on whether there
was hyperactivity involved, but they it wasn't like a part
of the actual definition at this point. I think seven
years later it finally landed upon I guess this would
be nineteen eighty seven. But a junior, I'm sorry, sophomore
in high school?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
How is eleven?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Oh, you were just a cute little eleven year old.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
How was a well I didn't get pimples, luckily, but
it would be pimply faced teenager when ADHD finally rolls
through the door. And I think if you had no
hyperactivity attached at that time, it could it was called
undifferentiated ADD Right am I.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Saying all this?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Right?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I think so yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
You totally.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
And then in the nineties, another big breakthrough came through
when they found out, hey, there's a genetic component to
all this, and there are actually a lot of.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Adults that have this.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
We thought kids just grew out of this kind of thing,
but now adults are saying, like when they're diagnosing like
gen xers, basically diagnosing their kids, they're saying, wait a minute,
that sounds a lot like me, maybe I have it,
and oh, my goodness, I do, and that maybe also
why my kid has it.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yeah. One of the reasons why they used to think
it was just a child the disorder that you grew
out of was because the first batch of kids with
ADHD or ADD they weren't followed into adulthood. They stopped
studying them after they were kids, so they just didn't
think about it. And then also, and this is really
sad if you think about this as an adult. As
(10:18):
you grow up, you get so good at masking your
symptoms in order to blend into society totally that researchers
were unaware that there was a whole group of people
with a disorder that was just went unrecognized because they
were good at disguising it, which is a huge part
of ADHD, and it turns out just being neurodiverse in general.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Yeah, for sure. And we'll get to masking more in
a little bit. But another revision in ninety four in
the DSM finally divided ADHD up into three types, the
enotent of type, hyperactive impulsive type, and then the combined type,
which is both.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, and that's where we are today.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Right where we are today.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
But you know, the more we learn, I feel like
every ten years that there's another change.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
So who knows where it's gonna stop.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah, they're just going to keep adding letters. Maybe, So
I say we take a break and come back and
talk about how this whole thing kind of works in
the brain.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
As far as we know, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Definitely should know a.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
Y s K. Lately I've been learning some stop about
insoma or aluminia.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
How about the one on border like disorder, that ynder order,
that one be warm But it was so nice I
learned this, why definitely, body listen, stop stop.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Chuck.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I can't remember if I said it already, but I
have ADHD myself. What Yeah, And then Jerry does too.
It turns out this is the most amazing part of this.
Jerry and I were diagnosed within like a week of
each other, and we both told you on the same day,
(12:25):
and you found out that you were the only third
of stuff you should know that doesn't have ADHD.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Now, and I was like, oh, this is great to
know here fifteen years into our career.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yeah, I'm surrounded.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
I'm surrounded. But you guys are both wonderful and understanding
this stuff helps everybody understand things because, as you'll see
throughout this episode, ADHD affects you, and it affects your parents,
your loved ones, your partners, your business partners. And I
think the more people understand all this stuff, the more
empathy we can all have for each other.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
That sounded like a really word prey children's book.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
About ADHD, not a kid's book writer. Even though we
have a kid's book exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
That still holds true. So Chuck, there's like it's clear,
like you said, they have a genetic or they found
a genetic component to this whole thing. They've also found
that there are definite differences in brain structure with people
who have ADHD. The brains are just simply physically different.
One of the things is that they're smaller in places,
(13:29):
like they have less volume. Maybe some parts are thinner,
some parts maybe thicker. And it's really important to point
out that brain size is not relative to intelligence. So
if you're verin smaller doesn't mean like you aren't intelligent.
And maybe here's a really good place to point out
that one of the things that I think is kind
(13:49):
of overlooked about people with ADHD is they have the
same thoughts and feelings and emotions that anybody else does.
It's just that they have trouble regulating those emotions and
regulating those behaviors that the same impulses that everybody else
gets can slip through with a person with ADHD. That
(14:09):
that damper that's like, well, I can't do that because
it's socially unacceptable that neurotypical people have is kind of
absent for the most part in people with ADHD unless
they're really paying attention and trying to hold it back.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Absolutely, And what's you know fascinating is that they can
detect some of these differences, like you know, with brain scans,
physical differences as early as age four h which you know,
it suggests at least that like this is innate like
you were probably born with this if you can be
(14:43):
you know, four years old and detect differences in brain scans.
Another big one, and this is kind of the the
real crux of the whole thing is if you were
a person with ADHD, then that means that you have
a deficit of two things that really make a big
difference in your life. Dopamine and nora epinephrine, two things
(15:05):
that we've talked about quite a lot over the years.
But you know, we know what dopamine does. And part
of the challenge of ADHD is if you're not getting
a dopamine hit. And this is just a sort of
a big generalization, but I think if you have ADHD,
you can probably relate if you're not getting that hit
(15:26):
of a dopamine, which is a you know, part of
the reward center, like, hey, you did a great job
cleaning that room and making that bed, and just look
at it, my dopamine is hitting and I feel great
about that. If you're not getting that, or that's you know,
dampered in some way, then you're not gonna be as
interested in cleaning that room or making that bed.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
It's not that.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Your kid doesn't care or as lazy or loves a
mess is because they literally don't get that same reward
or adults that same reward that someone who doesn't have
that neurodiversity does.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
And so they're not going to be incentivized to do
that thing.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
And as we talked about in the dopamine episode, it's
not like dopamine gives you that hit of feeling good.
It's the thing that comes along with whatever makes you
feel good and says this is important, learn this and
remember this so that the next time you're faced with
cleaning a room, you can remember, Oh, there's some good
feeling at the end of this, and if you don't
have that, yeah, there's there's no reason whatsoever for you
(16:29):
to get up and clean a room. Especially there's like,
as we'll see, there's actual brain function that's missing or
impaired in people with ADHD that allows them to self
arouse and be like, I should really do this. I'm
going to get up and do this.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
And fatigue is another sort of I guess, cosymptom of
ADHD sometimes because maybe you don't sleep as well, maybe
the hyperactivity is just wearing you out, or your anxiety which.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Can also come along.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
So not only are you not getting that dopamine hit,
and your body isn't learning and your brain isn't learning, Like, hey,
here's the reward that comes with making that bed if
you're fatigued at the same time, and let's say you're
an adult and it's not just like make your bed,
small child. If you have a huge amount of things
on your plate and you're fatigued and you're not getting
(17:21):
that dopamine hit, it can I'm sure feel like the
weight of the world is coming down on you and
you could go into shutdown mode.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, So one thing I saw is that they don't
think that people with ADHD produce less dopamine. The current
understanding is that people with ADHD have more dopamine transporters,
so that dopamine gets moved out of the brain faster,
so you have less of it at any given point
in time, not that you make less of it. The
(17:51):
other one you mentioned is nora pineffron, and that's usually
the thing that allows you to kind of rouse yourself,
and it helps you also very import and regulate emotion,
regulate self control, regulate attention. And so those are the neurotransmitters,
the big ones that definitely in some way, shape or
form effect ADHD. We just don't fully understand it. But
(18:14):
one of the other big things that has to do
with the brain is the typically the frontal lobe or
the frontal cortex contains like our higher thinking, our higher behaviors,
and that's usually put together in something called executive function
which is a suite of behaviors and cognitive abilities that
(18:36):
essentially let us just be you know, functioning people in
society as far as the terms of society.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Require, Yeah, like how you prioritize your tasks, how you
handle distractions that come your way, how you control what
impulses that come your way that may or may not
distract you from those tasks. And you know, we're going
to talk about I guess like six broad executive functioning components,
(19:06):
and if you have ADHD, one or all of these
are going to be dinged in some way. Doesn't mean
you can't you have zero executive functioning by any means,
but it just means with these six things, some of
them may be worse than others because ADHD, like most things,
sort of exist on the spectrum as far as how
(19:26):
sibiera might be for each individual. The first part of
that executive functioning is working memory. Of course, that's just
your you know, that's your working memory. It's just like
thoughts at any given moment about what you're doing and
what you are remembering to do.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Right. You usually think of working memories like remembering a
phone number while you're going to write it down, you know,
but it also involves everything from like engaging in a conversation,
planning a vacation, like anything where you're having to hold
a bunch of thoughts like in the front of your
mind while you're kind of working it all out. That's
working memory, and it's really important and it's very frequently
(20:04):
impaired in people with ADHD. Another classic executive function that
is essentially universal as far as ADHD symptoms go is
self restraint or inhibition control, and not just physically, but
also emotionally and attentionally too, like staying in a conversation
not blurting out something offensive about someone's hair style even
(20:28):
though you don't mean to hurt their feelings. Another one too,
being on a diet and then just being like, I'm
just gonna eat a bunch of cookies too. Who cares
a lot of all of those things? Have to do
with inhibition control, and that's just a big part of it.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Yeah, and you can still say, like geez, who wears
a mullet these days? Just say it very quietly to
your friend.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Or just think it. And that's another thing too. I
think that's why a lot of people who don't have
ADHD recognize because they were thinking the same thing, but
they know not to say it. This person says it,
you know what I'm saying. That's the friends.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Yeah, if you've ever heard anybody say something like, oh,
I got no filter, that person has no filter.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
That person may have ADHD.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Is a good chance, you know, they're just irresponsible one
of the two.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Yeah, that's true. You can also just be a jerk.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Planning, organizing, and problem solving is another big one. If
you have a goal for work or life or whatever, school,
what you usually do when you're executive and when you're
an executive, no, when you're when you're functioning executively. As
you take that goal, you look at it, you break
it down into steps and smaller parts. You do an
(21:39):
evaluation of, like what's the best way to tackle this thing?
And that's a big, big part of problem solving. If
that is impaired with ADHD, and you're throwing a big
task or a big worker school project, you may kind
of just freeze for a while, and you know, you
know this sounds bad, but you might just sit there
(22:00):
and think about something entirely different for a little while.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yeah, you might go to great links to avoid that task.
And also not just procrastinating, but like really genuinely having
trouble focusing because you don't know what to do. You
don't know where to start.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Yeah, like you can't do it. It's not that's a
disinterest or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Right. Another one's decision making, which kind of ties into that,
where you know, you can't just say yes to everything.
That's not how life works. So you have to take
into like account future consequences and you have to figure
out do I have time to do all of these things,
and if not, which one's more important? Like all that
goes into decision making, and that can be largely impaired too,
(22:42):
not just not like necessarily all the time, But you
were just kind of mentioning something called ADHD paralysis that
where like things can get so overwhelming you cannot know
where to start your you know, like your bosses coming
down the hall to get this report. You haven't even
started on, and like you just shut down. You can't
decide anything, you can't really focus on anything. That's called
(23:03):
ADHD paralysis, and that can come from having to make decisions.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Yeah, and that's where as a parent or as a partner,
a business partner or life partner to someone, if you
don't have that challenge, that's when you can really step
up and sit down with your kid or your friend
or partner and say, all right, let's sit down and
look at this. Let's talk about the steps, like maybe
what a good first step might be, maybe get a
little help organizing something. Those are Like to be a
(23:32):
really active involved parent or partner is key to everyone,
you know, doing the best they can in life.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
And we'll talk more about like what parents and like
family members and spouses and all that can do later
on down the road. But that's a great that's a
great thing to hit multiple times, you know.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
Time management is another big one that kind of ties
into a little bit of the planning and organization and
stuff like that. But just being able to allocate your time,
keep track of the deadlines.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
It may seem counterintuitive.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
But if you are a person with ADHD, you might
do much better with a deadline instead of some just
amorphous task this handed to you. So like knowing the
deadline may be really good for you, or the deadline
may just come and go sometimes as well.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Yeah, and it's not necessarily because they're like I don't
care about this deadline. They may have literally forgotten about it.
I read a horror story Chuck about a guy with
ADHD an adult whose boss came to him and said, Hey,
you know, why don't you run Monday's meeting. I'm not
going to be there, And the guy was like, I
knew that this was like a step toward like getting
(24:41):
me ready for the next level, for a promotion into management,
So he was really excited about it, and then over
the weekend he totally forgot about it. When the Monday
meeting came around, he sat down with everybody else waiting
for the boss, wondering where the boss was, and they
all just left the meeting and went back to work,
and his boss came and asked him how the meeting went,
and he's like, what are you talking about? And it
(25:03):
finally sunk into him, like what had just happened, and
think about that, like, he just probably totally scuttled any
chance of that promotion. Yeah, because he just forgot about it.
And that's just something that can happen with it. That's
a frequent reason people with ADHD miss deadlines. They just
forget that they have one.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
You should have saved that for Halloween. That horror story, Yeah,
where's the knocker?
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Didn't that just turn your stomach least imagining that guy
for sure.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
And then the last part of executive functioning that can
be impaired is another big one. It's called task shifting,
and it leads into a couple of things we're going
to talk about. That means you get out of your
default mode, which we'll expand on here in a second,
and doing something called set shifting, which is you know,
being able to switch from task to task, being flexible
(25:56):
as you're doing that, maybe realizing that different tasks and
different situations require different rules. And if you don't have that,
if that's impaired, you might be really rigid in how
you think something has to be done, a very black
and white thinking. They can come across to others as stubborn,
but in the ADHD mind, you just have a hard
(26:17):
time task shifting right exactly.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
And that's a huge classic one too, like you just
focus on one thing or you can't start another thing too.
And if you put all that together in life, people
with ADHD, they have trouble remembering to pay bills, they
forget that they have homework, They say or do in
appropriate things like not waiting for their turn to speak.
(26:41):
They have trouble self motivating, staying on task. They misplace things,
They have false memories, which is a really big one
that we'll talk about. They can't remember important dates or
that they're supposed to run a meeting. And another big
one too is that they'll very frequently ADHD causes you
to walk into a room and you have no idea
(27:04):
what you went in there for. You knew you went
in there for. Something that happens sometimes too, but imagine
every time.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Yeah, now I can't because it's it's frustrating and it
can also be alarming.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yes, that's another thing too, is especially as you age
with ADHD, you can still be like, okay, is this
ADHD or am I developing early on said dementia? Like
there's a lot of overlap and it can be very scary,
but sure you also learn tricks like you just leave
the room and go back out to where you just were,
and you're going to see like a clue that will
prompt you to remember, and then you just think about
(27:37):
it while you're going into the room and then you remember.
It's usually just amounts to an extra trip back out
of the room and then back into it. But it
is just frustrating for sure.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
You know what they call that in the l film biz.
Do you remember a mcguffin, Now you go back to one?
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Oh okay, yeah, that's right, that's right back to one.
Dad saying that he would always pinch the bridge of
his nose while he was saying, yeah, back.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
To one just means first position of that scene.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
Like if the scene starts and you're in the doorway,
go back to one, You go back to that doorway.
So maybe that's a fun way to remember that kind
of thing.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Yeah, I love that, Chuck.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Way to go.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Now, let's not take a break yet, because I think
we should talk. I mentioned default mode. Default mode network
is a very big part of this, at least understanding
of this. The brain regions collectively that function when you're
just hanging out when you're hanging out on the couch,
you don't have anything to do in the moment. I
(28:37):
mean people with no children can identify with this, maybe
I can't. But the times of the day where you
can just sit around and introspect and daydream and zone
out a little bit, that's called default mode. And when
you're doing that, there are parts of your brain that
become really active and light up during default mode. And
if you have if you're a neurotypical person, going between
(29:02):
default mode, because once you have to kick into action mode,
that default mode turns off and switching between those if
your neurotypical is you know, it works as it should
if you have ADHD, and the problem is that default
mode stays on sometimes they've shown this in brain imaging studies.
(29:23):
So if you're doing a task that requires focus, your
default mode still may be on and that's active at
the same time. And those two things are not SYMPATICO.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
No, and like by sometimes it's pretty much all the time,
like it just does not shut off. So that amounts
to there's a psychiatrist and Ned Hollowell, MD, who put
it as a persistent magnetic pull away from the task
at hand into distraction. So you're because your brain is
(29:55):
like no, no, no, we're over here, We're going to daydream.
Because your default mode network is on, you can't focus
for long periods on the task at hand, or if
you can, it's a constant struggle to resist. You're letting
your mind wander. You have to actively keep it focused
on the thing you're doing because you're like you said,
(30:15):
the action network didn't take over and the default mode
network go down, you know, proportionately to one another. Now
they're just both.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
On default net network go down turned into tuk took
for me?
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Yeahs is so, And we'll talk about medication and you know,
I guess probably in part two. But aside from medication,
if you are trying to help turn that default mode
network down or off, breathing techniques are a big part
of that, Like trying to stay in the present, bring
(30:51):
yourself back to the present through breathing techniques and mindfulness exercises,
those can go a long way.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah, for sure. Do you want to take a break
and then come back and talk some more about you
know ADHD Yeah?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Sure, so it three here.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Definitely should know.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Y s K get.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
Lately, I've been learning some stuff about insomnia or aluminia.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
How about the one on borderlight disorder that are under order?
Heard that one before, but it was.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
So nice I learned this.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
Why except everybody listen up.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Shot, stop stop stop?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
All right?
Speaker 4 (31:53):
So, uh, this is a big one, maybe one of
the biggest sort of downsides to ADHD. Uh, And don't worry,
there are some upsides too, because you know there are
some quote ADHD superpowers here and there that we're going
to talk about, so take heart. But one of the
biggest drawbacks is called rejection sensitive dysphoria or RSD.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
It's a very.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Destructive thing if you have it. It's very destructive to
people around you. It's the basically it's basically when any
any kind of rejection or even appearance of rejection, even
if it's not rejection, will trigger a very very intense
flood of emotion that is, it almost has and can
(32:38):
feel like it's having, and can have an actual physical
effect that is so strong. Not just a fear of rejection,
just a because no one likes rejection, but if you
have ADHD and RSD anything like that can bring a
real flood of negativity around you.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Yeah, it can be actual rejection, but it can also
be something like constructive criticism, which is important to be
able to take a perceived slight, maybe a made up slight,
somebody's fleeting facial expression, and offhand comment your own false beliefs.
And then there's two ways generally that a person with
(33:20):
RSD or we should just say ADHD will respond to
that to that perceived rejection. They can internalize where they'll
just emotionally curl up into a ball and just shut down,
or they may also lash out and they'll have a
meltdown or an outburst, or they'll become angry. That's called externalization.
(33:41):
And so to really kind of put it in perspective,
imagine either one of those being the response that you
get when you ask someone to not leave their dirty
dishes in the sink.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Yeah, Like that's RST.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
That's what it's like living with RSC. That's what it's
like having with RSC. And the big problem is the
whole thing is instant. It's not like I'm gonna have
an outbur burst, I'm gonna melt down, I'm gonna emotionally
ball up. It just it just it goes from trigger
to response with nothing in between.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Yeah, and then you know, the person in your life
may end up, even if they're understanding of what's going on,
may end up walking on eggshells, may not want to
criticize or constructively or otherwise anything about that person in
fear of like a meltdown or an emotional outburst or
something like that, because it can it can really disrupt
(34:31):
like a relationship. So you know, you've got one side
where someone can't help something, and you've got the other
side where even if that person can't help it, it's
destructive to the relationship. So I'm just gonna do everything
I can to avoid any sort of confrontation.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Yeah, it makes it really hard to have a connection
with somebody who might just melt down at you at
the slightest provocation, right, Yeah, and you said something the
person can't help it. The person with RC cannot help this.
They're not being a jerk, like, they can't not do this.
And one of the problems with it is that it's
really fleeting. It's like a tidal wave or getting punched
(35:10):
in the stomach, that's what it feels like. The overwhelming emotion,
like you said, but that's fairly fleeting, and then that
gets replaced by regret and then feelings of shame every
time because you're just so ashamed you can't control yourself. Right, So,
some people who have RSD will become people pleasers where
(35:31):
they don't share their thoughts, they're true emotions, they're true opinions,
they don't share themselves because what they're doing is cutting
off as much risk as possible of being rejected and
thus triggering an about of RSD.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Yeah. Yeah, that's a vicious cycle, it is.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
And so initially they used to think that it was
comorbid with ADHD, that it was a separate thing, and
it's not even recognized in the DSM yet. It's that
that recently recognized. But apparently studies have found that essentially
one hundred percent of people with ADHD also have RSD.
So they're just basically coming to the conclusion that it's
(36:12):
a it's a terrible symptom of ADHD.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
We'd mentioned some benefits and positive things. Hyper focus is
one of them. It's sometimes called the superpower of ADHD.
If you and I've seen this with all kinds of
people in my life that have ADHD, if it's there,
if it's something they're into and they're interested in, and
they can zero in on that thing. It is like,
(36:39):
I mean, hyper focus doesn't even begin to describe it.
They can tune out everything, and sometimes to their own detriment,
you know, if it's like other things in their life
that need attention, hyper focus can distract away from those.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
But it can also be a great thing. If you
are someone.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
With ADHD, you may have a real like a real
skill for like zoning in on something. Maybe a particular
kind of job might be really really good for you, right,
or particular tasks maybe really really great for you, and
you can get a lot done sometimes that way.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, it's like the exact opposite of your inability to
self motivate, right.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
I saw a corporate study bandied about the statistic all
over the place, but essentially this one company found that
a person, a neurodiverse person who is locked into something
that interests them in their work will essentially do the
job of two people. They produce between ninety and one
(37:41):
hundred and forty percent more work than their peers in
the same, say, department, and that their work is consistent
and error free, typically because they're just totally laser focused
on that thing. So if you can find a job
that holds your interests like that, you're you're very much
in luck, because unfortunately, one of the things that is
(38:03):
a huge challenge for people with ADHD is finding a job.
When you have to find a job that doesn't hold
your interests, it's very difficult to arouse yourself to do that,
even though you know like you have to do this
and you should be doing it and you feel terrible
for not doing it, it's really hard to do sometimes.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
Yeah, which is why I sort of understanding yourself and
your challenges is like really key when you go out
into the world and join the workforce, Like it's important
for anyone to go into the job starts thinking like,
all right, what am I really good at and what
are my challenges? But I just think it's probably times
a million if you have ADHD.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, and yeah, for sure. Another kind of something related
to this is you can become laser focused on just
everyday tasks that end up catching your interest somehow surprisingly,
and so people with ADHD, if they're doing a task
and they're in hyper focus, it'll take them way longer
to do it frequently, But that's because they're doing a
(39:04):
perfect job of it. So, like say vacuuming the car,
you just go to vacuum the car and you're like, huh,
this caught my interest in Now I'm totally focused on
making this car immaculately clean in every way, shape or form.
So of course it's going to go from taking fifteen
minutes to taking an hour and a half. You know,
but when you're done, the car looks awesome.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
So maybe they're probably CEOs all over the place now
trying to staff up certain departments.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Yeah, that's actually a thing, and there.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
Are probably people that should be auto detailers and start
up your own a small business that way.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Yeah. Well, one of the things I saw I read
a del Watt or how do you say that that
consulting firm.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
I don't know, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
I read one of their reports and they were saying that,
you know, traditionally people think like, Okay, there's there's got
to be a good job for a neurodiverse person, like
maybe programming or coding or something like that. Just let
them go off and be themselves by themselves. Yeah, and
they're starting to recognize like, no, like you can put
somebody that's neurodiverse in any job, and if they find
(40:09):
something interesting in it, they're going to excel at it.
It's not necessarily a specific field that applies to neurodiverse people.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
And you know, kind of tagging onto what we were
just talking about, viewing yourself as you know, not having
some sort of defect or deficit and like, hey, this
is who I am, this is.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
How I like.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
I have no choice but to operate this way and
try and work, you know, within that framework, not the
framework of somebody who doesn't have this, who doesn't have ADHD.
Like it's a the world and jobs a lot of
times are kind of structured around I mean, yeah, the
entire world is structured around people who aren't neurodiverse. So
(40:55):
fitting into that world can be a real challenge no
matter what your neurodiversity is. So kind of working with
who you are and understanding that is a real key
to moving forward in life.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yeah, and there are a lot of positives upsides to
having ADHD that kind of give you talents that other
people don't necessarily have. Like one of them is I
saw it described as you're getting so much noise at
any given time you're inevitably going to also get more
data points than other people at any given time, And
people with ADHD have a typically an ability to connect
(41:30):
dots that other people make, connections that other people can't see.
That's a big one. Another one is like, if you
are multitasking and you actually get those projects done, that
kind of boundless energy that's synonymous with the hyperactive part
of ADHD, you're gonna get a ton of stuff done
(41:51):
in any given day, way more than like a neurotypical
person who you know, poops out halfway through the day.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
Another potential positive is, you know, earlier when we were
talking about some of the impaired executive functions and being
super just sort of black and white and rigid, when
you apply that to a moral code, you may have
a very strong moral compass, whereas somebody who's a little
more sees like the gray instead of the black and
white might be like, well, you know, it's really not
(42:22):
so bad if this kind of if you do this
kind of thing, Whereas if you have a very strict
sort of view of right and wrong in a black
and white sense of that, you may be like, no,
that's just wrong.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Chuck, there was this one time where I tried to
fight two guys who I thought were throwing rocks at
a manateee and like I was seeing red. You me
was even like it's not a manity stop and I
didn't even hear. And those guys were like, it's a rock,
We're not throwing rocks amanities. I was like, oh all right,
and luckily they were cool with it. But I was
(42:53):
ready to fight two dudes for throwing rocks at amanity.
Like my sense of justice was just that stricken.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
I wish I would have been there. How might we
might have fought them anyway.
Speaker 4 (43:02):
Josh, Just because I've never been in a fight, right, So,
like I don't know, it'd be fun to get in
a fight.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
With you, right, sure?
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Oh yeah back to back?
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yeah, yeah, exactly with the two Musketeers.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Another one Chuck is if a person with ADHD gets excited,
it's infectious. Typically if they're in a place where they
feel safe and comfortable, like just showing their excitement and
just letting it hang out, You're probably going to get
excited along with them because it's just so it just
fills over. It can be really nice to.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Be around, for sure.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
One more thing if you have ADHD, you very typically
catastrophize as far as thinking goes. You're just constantly expecting
the worst, just because over and over and over again
in your life the worst has come around because you
forgot to do something or whatever. So that catastrophic thinking
can actually be an asset in that you can look
(43:58):
at something that everybody's about to do, like, well, we're
all gonna die if we do this that no one
else saw, and you can find a safer option in
that way. It's actually a huge benefit of having ADHD,
even though you have to suffer with catastrophic thinking in
order for that to be an asset too.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
You know.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah, Chuck, I say that we end part.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
One here, Yeah, just getting cooking too, and then we're.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Going to pick up part two and we're going to
talk more about ADHD and part two, and then while
we're talking about ADHD, we'll eventually finish part two and
then that will complete part one and two of ADHD.
What do you think about that.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
For a plan? I think that sounds great.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
And as is custom here, we don't do listener mail
or anything for these two parters, so I guess we'll
just say see you Thursday.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yeah, and finish on that dramatic pause, like the very
special episode of Different Strokes.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the Iheartrate you up,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
H m hm
Hey, everybody. In today's episode and in part two, we
talk very frankly about ADHD and all that that means
over the lifetime of a person who has it. So
if you're a parent with a kiddo who has ADHD,
maybe considered listening by yourself first before you share it
with them. Just a thought. Hope you enjoy these episodes.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and
there's Charles w chuck'bryan, and there's Jerry Jerome Roland. You
put the three of us together and you got yourself
a podcast called Stuff you Should Know.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
That's right. And this is the.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Sort of long simmering we've had it on the back
burner down to as low as a consummer. You had
many many months the ADHD. What is now to be
a two part episode because we've had I mean, that's
not why we're splitting it up, but we have had
a lot of requests for this over the years, and
you know, it's big that could certainly be more than
(01:12):
two episodes. And as much as I wanted to try
and split this up into AD and HD for fun,
and it kind of doesn't work that way, so we're
just gonna split it up into two parts.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I think you're more thinking of ac DC.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Oh, okay, that's that's what I think it is. Yeah,
I gotcha, No, chuck.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Instead, today we're talking about ADHD, which stands for attention
deficit hyperactivity disorder. Kind of wordy, but it really does
get the point across because with ADHD, I'm sure a
lot of people are familiar with it, especially the people
who requested it. It's a I'm not exactly sure exactly
(01:51):
what kind of disorder it is, whether it's a mental disorder,
a personality disorder, an externalizing disorder. There's actually a lot
of debate about it, but essentially, it's where people have
a lot of trouble paying attention, sitting still focusing, and
a bunch of other stuff that we'll talk about, and
you put it all together and it can make life
kind of hard to navigate. And at first we'll talk
(02:15):
about it a lot more. But kids, it used to
be like little boys fidgeting essentially was what ADHD or
ADD at the time was considered. But over time it's
really kind of expanded. We've realized way more girls have
it than we thought before, and we've also come to
realize that adults have it too, and that's a I mean,
it's a really big, huge disorder, and a lot of
(02:36):
people just kind of use it as shorthand, like, you know,
I forgot my keys, it's my ADHD or something like that.
But the more you know about it, the more you
realize it's a genuinely debilitating disorder that people have.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yeah, and sometimes you may lose your keys.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
It's true, that is a big part of it. I mean,
they're not wrong about that.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
One for sure.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
So you know, when it comes to something like this,
that is only and I mean, honestly, in the last
like twenty five ish years, really come more into focus
as far as our understanding of it.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
When you look.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Back through medical and you know, psychiatric literature, you're going
to see it pop up. They just didn't know what
it was at the time. And in this case you
can probably go back all the way to the eighteenth
century with a Scottish physician named Sir Alexander Crichton, who
in his seventeen eighty nine book talked about children who
(03:29):
were unable to focus on one thing at a time
and you know, it's one of those clear cases kind
of like, oh, well, it was probably somebody with ADHD.
It is not just a modern condition because kids eat
too much sugar and they have screens in their lives.
Screens can we'll talk about that. Can certainly, you know,
make things worse, But it's not like, oh, because people
(03:52):
are so busy and there's too many distractions these days,
and back in the olden times when there were no distractions,
people didn't suffer from something like this. It's just not
true when you hear about some of these old descriptions.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah, no, not at all. And our understanding of it
has progressed like over the centuries. But it is interesting
that it started in the eighteenth century because I mean
Crichton nailed it on the head, like he's like, there's
definitely something here, and I guess it just kind of
stayed there for a little while until nineteen oh two
when a pediatrician from the UK named Sir George Frederick.
(04:24):
Still ironically, yeah, I thought that too. He described children
who had a defect of moral control, which is essentially
saying that these are kids who have troubled delaying gratification,
not thinking about negative consequences when they carry out actions,
and that's impulsivity. That's what we call it today, is impulsivity.
(04:48):
And that's what Still was essentially describing at the time.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Yeah, in the thirties, some more descriptors came along from
the courtesy of some German physicians I named Franz Kramer
and Hans pol No in this case talking about more
of the hyperactivity side of things. And then about five
years after that, still in the nineteen thirties, in nineteen
thirty seven, a big I guess breakthrough came along when
(05:13):
a doctor for the Rhode Island Facility for Children with
neurological problems, saying Charles Bradley was doing an experiment where
he was doing a imaging test on the brain, and specifically,
in this case with kids, he was draining some brain
or some fluid around the brain. Rather gave the kids headaches,
he treated them with benza dream, which is an amphetamine,
(05:37):
And what he found out was, Wow, this doesn't seem
to make any intuitive sense, but giving these children amphetamines
is at least for about half of them, made them
less vigety and more focused, and all of a sudden
you're onto a pharmaceutical potential, pharmaceutical treatment.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, I mean, what a way to accidentally stumble into that,
because even today we're not exactly sure how stimulants like
take care of ADHD symptoms. We just know they really
really work. Luckily, this doctor was like quick complaining, take
some benz adream and shut up little.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Kids, and back then the kids obeyed, So.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
There was a so that was actually kind of a
diversion nineteen thirty seven when when Charles Bradley discovered this
that amphetamines treat ADHD, it didn't like take off like wildfire,
because there was an interim period between then and like
the fifties where psychiatrists and psychologists were like, all this
stuff needs to just be talked out through psychoanalysis. That's
(06:38):
how you treat you know, mental disorders. And in the
fifties finally people were like, no, let's start prescribing drugs.
And one of the first companies was Siba Geige pharmaceutical company.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
I mean, you're definitely going to go out of business
if that's the name of your pharmaceutical company. But they're
the first ones who developed Riddlin. And it turns out
that the guy who developed the drug leandro penzone penizone.
His wife was named Rita and he named it as.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
That's right, lovely Rita.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
So it was the first half of the twentieth century
when things started to change, you know, you know not
I guess I could say begin in earnest as far
as researching this kind of thing. A lot of like
research into brain injuries were happening at the time, and
they thought that, well, hey, this is what's going on
(07:32):
with any kind of developmental issue. It's almost certainly a
brain injury. That can be the case for sure with
all kinds of developmental issues, including ADHD in this case.
But in the nineteen sixties that started to go out
of favor a little bit and they started to realize that, hey,
a lot of this stuff, there are a lot of
actually distinct conditions, and you can't just lump them all
(07:54):
in there and say it's because a kid hit his
head when they were young.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
No. So in the late sixties, the DSM two, the sequel,
the introduced to diagnosis called hyperkinetic Reaction of childhood and
it's essentially ADHD that they were talking about, And this
is the first time it showed up in psychiatry or
it's like, this is actually a thing. We just aren't
clear what to name it yet, clearly because we're calling
(08:19):
it hyperkinetic reaction of childhood. And within a decade and
a half we finally had it nailed down to attention
deficit disorder ADD, which people of our age, that was
what the name we were first exposed to. For sure,
it was not ADHD, this new fangled version. It was
ad D and that's the way it was, and you.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Liked it, right, right.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
ADD had a couple of subtypes depending on whether there
was hyperactivity involved, but they it wasn't like a part
of the actual definition at this point. I think seven
years later it finally landed upon I guess this would
be nineteen eighty seven. But a junior, I'm sorry, sophomore
in high school?
Speaker 1 (09:02):
How is eleven?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Oh, you were just a cute little eleven year old.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
How was a well I didn't get pimples, luckily, but
it would be pimply faced teenager when ADHD finally rolls
through the door. And I think if you had no
hyperactivity attached at that time, it could it was called
undifferentiated ADD Right am I.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Saying all this?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Right?
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I think so yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
You totally.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
And then in the nineties, another big breakthrough came through
when they found out, hey, there's a genetic component to
all this, and there are actually a lot of.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Adults that have this.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
We thought kids just grew out of this kind of thing,
but now adults are saying, like when they're diagnosing like
gen xers, basically diagnosing their kids, they're saying, wait a minute,
that sounds a lot like me, maybe I have it,
and oh, my goodness, I do, and that maybe also
why my kid has it.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yeah. One of the reasons why they used to think
it was just a child the disorder that you grew
out of was because the first batch of kids with
ADHD or ADD they weren't followed into adulthood. They stopped
studying them after they were kids, so they just didn't
think about it. And then also, and this is really
sad if you think about this as an adult. As
(10:18):
you grow up, you get so good at masking your
symptoms in order to blend into society totally that researchers
were unaware that there was a whole group of people
with a disorder that was just went unrecognized because they
were good at disguising it, which is a huge part
of ADHD, and it turns out just being neurodiverse in general.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Yeah, for sure. And we'll get to masking more in
a little bit. But another revision in ninety four in
the DSM finally divided ADHD up into three types, the
enotent of type, hyperactive impulsive type, and then the combined type,
which is both.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, and that's where we are today.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Right where we are today.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
But you know, the more we learn, I feel like
every ten years that there's another change.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
So who knows where it's gonna stop.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Yeah, they're just going to keep adding letters. Maybe, So
I say we take a break and come back and
talk about how this whole thing kind of works in
the brain.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
As far as we know, let's do it.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Definitely should know a.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
Y s K. Lately I've been learning some stop about
insoma or aluminia.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
How about the one on border like disorder, that ynder order,
that one be warm But it was so nice I
learned this, why definitely, body listen, stop stop.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Chuck.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
I can't remember if I said it already, but I
have ADHD myself. What Yeah, And then Jerry does too.
It turns out this is the most amazing part of this.
Jerry and I were diagnosed within like a week of
each other, and we both told you on the same day,
(12:25):
and you found out that you were the only third
of stuff you should know that doesn't have ADHD.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Now, and I was like, oh, this is great to
know here fifteen years into our career.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yeah, I'm surrounded.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
I'm surrounded. But you guys are both wonderful and understanding
this stuff helps everybody understand things because, as you'll see
throughout this episode, ADHD affects you, and it affects your parents,
your loved ones, your partners, your business partners. And I
think the more people understand all this stuff, the more
empathy we can all have for each other.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
That sounded like a really word prey children's book.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
About ADHD, not a kid's book writer. Even though we
have a kid's book exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
That still holds true. So Chuck, there's like it's clear,
like you said, they have a genetic or they found
a genetic component to this whole thing. They've also found
that there are definite differences in brain structure with people
who have ADHD. The brains are just simply physically different.
One of the things is that they're smaller in places,
(13:29):
like they have less volume. Maybe some parts are thinner,
some parts maybe thicker. And it's really important to point
out that brain size is not relative to intelligence. So
if you're verin smaller doesn't mean like you aren't intelligent.
And maybe here's a really good place to point out
that one of the things that I think is kind
(13:49):
of overlooked about people with ADHD is they have the
same thoughts and feelings and emotions that anybody else does.
It's just that they have trouble regulating those emotions and
regulating those behaviors that the same impulses that everybody else
gets can slip through with a person with ADHD. That
(14:09):
that damper that's like, well, I can't do that because
it's socially unacceptable that neurotypical people have is kind of
absent for the most part in people with ADHD unless
they're really paying attention and trying to hold it back.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Absolutely, And what's you know fascinating is that they can
detect some of these differences, like you know, with brain scans,
physical differences as early as age four h which you know,
it suggests at least that like this is innate like
you were probably born with this if you can be
(14:43):
you know, four years old and detect differences in brain scans.
Another big one, and this is kind of the the
real crux of the whole thing is if you were
a person with ADHD, then that means that you have
a deficit of two things that really make a big
difference in your life. Dopamine and nora epinephrine, two things
(15:05):
that we've talked about quite a lot over the years.
But you know, we know what dopamine does. And part
of the challenge of ADHD is if you're not getting
a dopamine hit. And this is just a sort of
a big generalization, but I think if you have ADHD,
you can probably relate if you're not getting that hit
(15:26):
of a dopamine, which is a you know, part of
the reward center, like, hey, you did a great job
cleaning that room and making that bed, and just look
at it, my dopamine is hitting and I feel great
about that. If you're not getting that, or that's you know,
dampered in some way, then you're not gonna be as
interested in cleaning that room or making that bed.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
It's not that.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Your kid doesn't care or as lazy or loves a
mess is because they literally don't get that same reward
or adults that same reward that someone who doesn't have
that neurodiversity does.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
And so they're not going to be incentivized to do
that thing.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
And as we talked about in the dopamine episode, it's
not like dopamine gives you that hit of feeling good.
It's the thing that comes along with whatever makes you
feel good and says this is important, learn this and
remember this so that the next time you're faced with
cleaning a room, you can remember, Oh, there's some good
feeling at the end of this, and if you don't
have that, yeah, there's there's no reason whatsoever for you
(16:29):
to get up and clean a room. Especially there's like,
as we'll see, there's actual brain function that's missing or
impaired in people with ADHD that allows them to self
arouse and be like, I should really do this. I'm
going to get up and do this.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
And fatigue is another sort of I guess, cosymptom of
ADHD sometimes because maybe you don't sleep as well, maybe
the hyperactivity is just wearing you out, or your anxiety which.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Can also come along.
Speaker 4 (16:59):
So not only are you not getting that dopamine hit,
and your body isn't learning and your brain isn't learning, Like, hey,
here's the reward that comes with making that bed if
you're fatigued at the same time, and let's say you're
an adult and it's not just like make your bed,
small child. If you have a huge amount of things
on your plate and you're fatigued and you're not getting
(17:21):
that dopamine hit, it can I'm sure feel like the
weight of the world is coming down on you and
you could go into shutdown mode.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, So one thing I saw is that they don't
think that people with ADHD produce less dopamine. The current
understanding is that people with ADHD have more dopamine transporters,
so that dopamine gets moved out of the brain faster,
so you have less of it at any given point
in time, not that you make less of it. The
(17:51):
other one you mentioned is nora pineffron, and that's usually
the thing that allows you to kind of rouse yourself,
and it helps you also very import and regulate emotion,
regulate self control, regulate attention. And so those are the neurotransmitters,
the big ones that definitely in some way, shape or
form effect ADHD. We just don't fully understand it. But
(18:14):
one of the other big things that has to do
with the brain is the typically the frontal lobe or
the frontal cortex contains like our higher thinking, our higher behaviors,
and that's usually put together in something called executive function
which is a suite of behaviors and cognitive abilities that
(18:36):
essentially let us just be you know, functioning people in
society as far as the terms of society.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Require, Yeah, like how you prioritize your tasks, how you
handle distractions that come your way, how you control what
impulses that come your way that may or may not
distract you from those tasks. And you know, we're going
to talk about I guess like six broad executive functioning components,
(19:06):
and if you have ADHD, one or all of these
are going to be dinged in some way. Doesn't mean
you can't you have zero executive functioning by any means,
but it just means with these six things, some of
them may be worse than others because ADHD, like most things,
sort of exist on the spectrum as far as how
(19:26):
sibiera might be for each individual. The first part of
that executive functioning is working memory. Of course, that's just
your you know, that's your working memory. It's just like
thoughts at any given moment about what you're doing and
what you are remembering to do.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Right. You usually think of working memories like remembering a
phone number while you're going to write it down, you know,
but it also involves everything from like engaging in a conversation,
planning a vacation, like anything where you're having to hold
a bunch of thoughts like in the front of your
mind while you're kind of working it all out. That's
working memory, and it's really important and it's very frequently
(20:04):
impaired in people with ADHD. Another classic executive function that
is essentially universal as far as ADHD symptoms go is
self restraint or inhibition control, and not just physically, but
also emotionally and attentionally too, like staying in a conversation
not blurting out something offensive about someone's hair style even
(20:28):
though you don't mean to hurt their feelings. Another one too,
being on a diet and then just being like, I'm
just gonna eat a bunch of cookies too. Who cares
a lot of all of those things? Have to do
with inhibition control, and that's just a big part of it.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Yeah, and you can still say, like geez, who wears
a mullet these days? Just say it very quietly to
your friend.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Or just think it. And that's another thing too. I
think that's why a lot of people who don't have
ADHD recognize because they were thinking the same thing, but
they know not to say it. This person says it,
you know what I'm saying. That's the friends.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Yeah, if you've ever heard anybody say something like, oh,
I got no filter, that person has no filter.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
That person may have ADHD.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Is a good chance, you know, they're just irresponsible one
of the two.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
Yeah, that's true. You can also just be a jerk.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
Planning, organizing, and problem solving is another big one. If
you have a goal for work or life or whatever, school,
what you usually do when you're executive and when you're
an executive, no, when you're when you're functioning executively. As
you take that goal, you look at it, you break
it down into steps and smaller parts. You do an
(21:39):
evaluation of, like what's the best way to tackle this thing?
And that's a big, big part of problem solving. If
that is impaired with ADHD, and you're throwing a big
task or a big worker school project, you may kind
of just freeze for a while, and you know, you
know this sounds bad, but you might just sit there
(22:00):
and think about something entirely different for a little while.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yeah, you might go to great links to avoid that task.
And also not just procrastinating, but like really genuinely having
trouble focusing because you don't know what to do. You
don't know where to start.
Speaker 4 (22:14):
Yeah, like you can't do it. It's not that's a
disinterest or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Right. Another one's decision making, which kind of ties into that,
where you know, you can't just say yes to everything.
That's not how life works. So you have to take
into like account future consequences and you have to figure
out do I have time to do all of these things,
and if not, which one's more important? Like all that
goes into decision making, and that can be largely impaired too,
(22:42):
not just not like necessarily all the time, But you
were just kind of mentioning something called ADHD paralysis that
where like things can get so overwhelming you cannot know
where to start your you know, like your bosses coming
down the hall to get this report. You haven't even
started on, and like you just shut down. You can't
decide anything, you can't really focus on anything. That's called
(23:03):
ADHD paralysis, and that can come from having to make decisions.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Yeah, and that's where as a parent or as a partner,
a business partner or life partner to someone, if you
don't have that challenge, that's when you can really step
up and sit down with your kid or your friend
or partner and say, all right, let's sit down and
look at this. Let's talk about the steps, like maybe
what a good first step might be, maybe get a
little help organizing something. Those are Like to be a
(23:32):
really active involved parent or partner is key to everyone,
you know, doing the best they can in life.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
And we'll talk more about like what parents and like
family members and spouses and all that can do later
on down the road. But that's a great that's a
great thing to hit multiple times, you know.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
Time management is another big one that kind of ties
into a little bit of the planning and organization and
stuff like that. But just being able to allocate your time,
keep track of the deadlines.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
It may seem counterintuitive.
Speaker 4 (24:05):
But if you are a person with ADHD, you might
do much better with a deadline instead of some just
amorphous task this handed to you. So like knowing the
deadline may be really good for you, or the deadline
may just come and go sometimes as well.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Yeah, and it's not necessarily because they're like I don't
care about this deadline. They may have literally forgotten about it.
I read a horror story Chuck about a guy with
ADHD an adult whose boss came to him and said, Hey,
you know, why don't you run Monday's meeting. I'm not
going to be there, And the guy was like, I
knew that this was like a step toward like getting
(24:41):
me ready for the next level, for a promotion into management,
So he was really excited about it, and then over
the weekend he totally forgot about it. When the Monday
meeting came around, he sat down with everybody else waiting
for the boss, wondering where the boss was, and they
all just left the meeting and went back to work,
and his boss came and asked him how the meeting went,
and he's like, what are you talking about? And it
(25:03):
finally sunk into him, like what had just happened, and
think about that, like, he just probably totally scuttled any
chance of that promotion. Yeah, because he just forgot about it.
And that's just something that can happen with it. That's
a frequent reason people with ADHD miss deadlines. They just
forget that they have one.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
You should have saved that for Halloween. That horror story, Yeah,
where's the knocker?
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Didn't that just turn your stomach least imagining that guy
for sure.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
And then the last part of executive functioning that can
be impaired is another big one. It's called task shifting,
and it leads into a couple of things we're going
to talk about. That means you get out of your
default mode, which we'll expand on here in a second,
and doing something called set shifting, which is you know,
being able to switch from task to task, being flexible
(25:56):
as you're doing that, maybe realizing that different tasks and
different situations require different rules. And if you don't have that,
if that's impaired, you might be really rigid in how
you think something has to be done, a very black
and white thinking. They can come across to others as stubborn,
but in the ADHD mind, you just have a hard
(26:17):
time task shifting right exactly.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
And that's a huge classic one too, like you just
focus on one thing or you can't start another thing too.
And if you put all that together in life, people
with ADHD, they have trouble remembering to pay bills, they
forget that they have homework, They say or do in
appropriate things like not waiting for their turn to speak.
(26:41):
They have trouble self motivating, staying on task. They misplace things,
They have false memories, which is a really big one
that we'll talk about. They can't remember important dates or
that they're supposed to run a meeting. And another big
one too is that they'll very frequently ADHD causes you
to walk into a room and you have no idea
(27:04):
what you went in there for. You knew you went
in there for. Something that happens sometimes too, but imagine
every time.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
Yeah, now I can't because it's it's frustrating and it
can also be alarming.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yes, that's another thing too, is especially as you age
with ADHD, you can still be like, okay, is this
ADHD or am I developing early on said dementia? Like
there's a lot of overlap and it can be very scary,
but sure you also learn tricks like you just leave
the room and go back out to where you just were,
and you're going to see like a clue that will
prompt you to remember, and then you just think about
(27:37):
it while you're going into the room and then you remember.
It's usually just amounts to an extra trip back out
of the room and then back into it. But it
is just frustrating for sure.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
You know what they call that in the l film biz.
Do you remember a mcguffin, Now you go back to one?
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Oh okay, yeah, that's right, that's right back to one.
Dad saying that he would always pinch the bridge of
his nose while he was saying, yeah, back.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
To one just means first position of that scene.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
Like if the scene starts and you're in the doorway,
go back to one, You go back to that doorway.
So maybe that's a fun way to remember that kind
of thing.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Yeah, I love that, Chuck.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Way to go.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Now, let's not take a break yet, because I think
we should talk. I mentioned default mode. Default mode network
is a very big part of this, at least understanding
of this. The brain regions collectively that function when you're
just hanging out when you're hanging out on the couch,
you don't have anything to do in the moment. I
(28:37):
mean people with no children can identify with this, maybe
I can't. But the times of the day where you
can just sit around and introspect and daydream and zone
out a little bit, that's called default mode. And when
you're doing that, there are parts of your brain that
become really active and light up during default mode. And
if you have if you're a neurotypical person, going between
(29:02):
default mode, because once you have to kick into action mode,
that default mode turns off and switching between those if
your neurotypical is you know, it works as it should
if you have ADHD, and the problem is that default
mode stays on sometimes they've shown this in brain imaging studies.
(29:23):
So if you're doing a task that requires focus, your
default mode still may be on and that's active at
the same time. And those two things are not SYMPATICO.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
No, and like by sometimes it's pretty much all the time,
like it just does not shut off. So that amounts
to there's a psychiatrist and Ned Hollowell, MD, who put
it as a persistent magnetic pull away from the task
at hand into distraction. So you're because your brain is
(29:55):
like no, no, no, we're over here, We're going to daydream.
Because your default mode network is on, you can't focus
for long periods on the task at hand, or if
you can, it's a constant struggle to resist. You're letting
your mind wander. You have to actively keep it focused
on the thing you're doing because you're like you said,
(30:15):
the action network didn't take over and the default mode
network go down, you know, proportionately to one another. Now
they're just both.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
On default net network go down turned into tuk took
for me?
Speaker 4 (30:29):
Yeahs is so, And we'll talk about medication and you know,
I guess probably in part two. But aside from medication,
if you are trying to help turn that default mode
network down or off, breathing techniques are a big part
of that, Like trying to stay in the present, bring
(30:51):
yourself back to the present through breathing techniques and mindfulness exercises,
those can go a long way.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah, for sure. Do you want to take a break
and then come back and talk some more about you
know ADHD Yeah?
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Sure, so it three here.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Definitely should know.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
Y s K get.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
Lately, I've been learning some stuff about insomnia or aluminia.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
How about the one on borderlight disorder that are under order?
Heard that one before, but it was.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
So nice I learned this.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
Why except everybody listen up.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Shot, stop stop stop?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
All right?
Speaker 4 (31:53):
So, uh, this is a big one, maybe one of
the biggest sort of downsides to ADHD. Uh, And don't worry,
there are some upsides too, because you know there are
some quote ADHD superpowers here and there that we're going
to talk about, so take heart. But one of the
biggest drawbacks is called rejection sensitive dysphoria or RSD.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
It's a very.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
Destructive thing if you have it. It's very destructive to
people around you. It's the basically it's basically when any
any kind of rejection or even appearance of rejection, even
if it's not rejection, will trigger a very very intense
flood of emotion that is, it almost has and can
(32:38):
feel like it's having, and can have an actual physical
effect that is so strong. Not just a fear of rejection,
just a because no one likes rejection, but if you
have ADHD and RSD anything like that can bring a
real flood of negativity around you.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Yeah, it can be actual rejection, but it can also
be something like constructive criticism, which is important to be
able to take a perceived slight, maybe a made up slight,
somebody's fleeting facial expression, and offhand comment your own false beliefs.
And then there's two ways generally that a person with
(33:20):
RSD or we should just say ADHD will respond to
that to that perceived rejection. They can internalize where they'll
just emotionally curl up into a ball and just shut down,
or they may also lash out and they'll have a
meltdown or an outburst, or they'll become angry. That's called externalization.
(33:41):
And so to really kind of put it in perspective,
imagine either one of those being the response that you
get when you ask someone to not leave their dirty
dishes in the sink.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Yeah, Like that's RST.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
That's what it's like living with RSC. That's what it's
like having with RSC. And the big problem is the
whole thing is instant. It's not like I'm gonna have
an outbur burst, I'm gonna melt down, I'm gonna emotionally
ball up. It just it just it goes from trigger
to response with nothing in between.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
Yeah, and then you know, the person in your life
may end up, even if they're understanding of what's going on,
may end up walking on eggshells, may not want to
criticize or constructively or otherwise anything about that person in
fear of like a meltdown or an emotional outburst or
something like that, because it can it can really disrupt
(34:31):
like a relationship. So you know, you've got one side
where someone can't help something, and you've got the other
side where even if that person can't help it, it's
destructive to the relationship. So I'm just gonna do everything
I can to avoid any sort of confrontation.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Yeah, it makes it really hard to have a connection
with somebody who might just melt down at you at
the slightest provocation, right, Yeah, and you said something the
person can't help it. The person with RC cannot help this.
They're not being a jerk, like, they can't not do this.
And one of the problems with it is that it's
really fleeting. It's like a tidal wave or getting punched
(35:10):
in the stomach, that's what it feels like. The overwhelming emotion,
like you said, but that's fairly fleeting, and then that
gets replaced by regret and then feelings of shame every
time because you're just so ashamed you can't control yourself. Right, So,
some people who have RSD will become people pleasers where
(35:31):
they don't share their thoughts, they're true emotions, they're true opinions,
they don't share themselves because what they're doing is cutting
off as much risk as possible of being rejected and
thus triggering an about of RSD.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Yeah. Yeah, that's a vicious cycle, it is.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
And so initially they used to think that it was
comorbid with ADHD, that it was a separate thing, and
it's not even recognized in the DSM yet. It's that
that recently recognized. But apparently studies have found that essentially
one hundred percent of people with ADHD also have RSD.
So they're just basically coming to the conclusion that it's
(36:12):
a it's a terrible symptom of ADHD.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
We'd mentioned some benefits and positive things. Hyper focus is
one of them. It's sometimes called the superpower of ADHD.
If you and I've seen this with all kinds of
people in my life that have ADHD, if it's there,
if it's something they're into and they're interested in, and
they can zero in on that thing. It is like,
(36:39):
I mean, hyper focus doesn't even begin to describe it.
They can tune out everything, and sometimes to their own detriment,
you know, if it's like other things in their life
that need attention, hyper focus can distract away from those.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
But it can also be a great thing. If you
are someone.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
With ADHD, you may have a real like a real
skill for like zoning in on something. Maybe a particular
kind of job might be really really good for you, right,
or particular tasks maybe really really great for you, and
you can get a lot done sometimes that way.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, it's like the exact opposite of your inability to
self motivate, right.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
I saw a corporate study bandied about the statistic all
over the place, but essentially this one company found that
a person, a neurodiverse person who is locked into something
that interests them in their work will essentially do the
job of two people. They produce between ninety and one
(37:41):
hundred and forty percent more work than their peers in
the same, say, department, and that their work is consistent
and error free, typically because they're just totally laser focused
on that thing. So if you can find a job
that holds your interests like that, you're you're very much
in luck, because unfortunately, one of the things that is
(38:03):
a huge challenge for people with ADHD is finding a job.
When you have to find a job that doesn't hold
your interests, it's very difficult to arouse yourself to do that,
even though you know like you have to do this
and you should be doing it and you feel terrible
for not doing it, it's really hard to do sometimes.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
Yeah, which is why I sort of understanding yourself and
your challenges is like really key when you go out
into the world and join the workforce, Like it's important
for anyone to go into the job starts thinking like,
all right, what am I really good at and what
are my challenges? But I just think it's probably times
a million if you have ADHD.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, and yeah, for sure. Another kind of something related
to this is you can become laser focused on just
everyday tasks that end up catching your interest somehow surprisingly,
and so people with ADHD, if they're doing a task
and they're in hyper focus, it'll take them way longer
to do it frequently, But that's because they're doing a
(39:04):
perfect job of it. So, like say vacuuming the car,
you just go to vacuum the car and you're like, huh,
this caught my interest in Now I'm totally focused on
making this car immaculately clean in every way, shape or form.
So of course it's going to go from taking fifteen
minutes to taking an hour and a half. You know,
but when you're done, the car looks awesome.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
So maybe they're probably CEOs all over the place now
trying to staff up certain departments.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Yeah, that's actually a thing, and there.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
Are probably people that should be auto detailers and start
up your own a small business that way.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Yeah. Well, one of the things I saw I read
a del Watt or how do you say that that
consulting firm.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
I don't know, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
I read one of their reports and they were saying that,
you know, traditionally people think like, Okay, there's there's got
to be a good job for a neurodiverse person, like
maybe programming or coding or something like that. Just let
them go off and be themselves by themselves. Yeah, and
they're starting to recognize like, no, like you can put
somebody that's neurodiverse in any job, and if they find
(40:09):
something interesting in it, they're going to excel at it.
It's not necessarily a specific field that applies to neurodiverse people.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
And you know, kind of tagging onto what we were
just talking about, viewing yourself as you know, not having
some sort of defect or deficit and like, hey, this
is who I am, this is.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
How I like.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
I have no choice but to operate this way and
try and work, you know, within that framework, not the
framework of somebody who doesn't have this, who doesn't have ADHD.
Like it's a the world and jobs a lot of
times are kind of structured around I mean, yeah, the
entire world is structured around people who aren't neurodiverse. So
(40:55):
fitting into that world can be a real challenge no
matter what your neurodiversity is. So kind of working with
who you are and understanding that is a real key
to moving forward in life.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yeah, and there are a lot of positives upsides to
having ADHD that kind of give you talents that other
people don't necessarily have. Like one of them is I
saw it described as you're getting so much noise at
any given time you're inevitably going to also get more
data points than other people at any given time, And
people with ADHD have a typically an ability to connect
(41:30):
dots that other people make, connections that other people can't see.
That's a big one. Another one is like, if you
are multitasking and you actually get those projects done, that
kind of boundless energy that's synonymous with the hyperactive part
of ADHD, you're gonna get a ton of stuff done
(41:51):
in any given day, way more than like a neurotypical
person who you know, poops out halfway through the day.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (42:00):
Another potential positive is, you know, earlier when we were
talking about some of the impaired executive functions and being
super just sort of black and white and rigid, when
you apply that to a moral code, you may have
a very strong moral compass, whereas somebody who's a little
more sees like the gray instead of the black and
white might be like, well, you know, it's really not
(42:22):
so bad if this kind of if you do this
kind of thing, Whereas if you have a very strict
sort of view of right and wrong in a black
and white sense of that, you may be like, no,
that's just wrong.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Chuck, there was this one time where I tried to
fight two guys who I thought were throwing rocks at
a manateee and like I was seeing red. You me
was even like it's not a manity stop and I
didn't even hear. And those guys were like, it's a rock,
We're not throwing rocks amanities. I was like, oh all right,
and luckily they were cool with it. But I was
(42:53):
ready to fight two dudes for throwing rocks at amanity.
Like my sense of justice was just that stricken.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
I wish I would have been there. How might we
might have fought them anyway.
Speaker 4 (43:02):
Josh, Just because I've never been in a fight, right, So,
like I don't know, it'd be fun to get in
a fight.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
With you, right, sure?
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Oh yeah back to back?
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yeah, yeah, exactly with the two Musketeers.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Another one Chuck is if a person with ADHD gets excited,
it's infectious. Typically if they're in a place where they
feel safe and comfortable, like just showing their excitement and
just letting it hang out, You're probably going to get
excited along with them because it's just so it just
fills over. It can be really nice to.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
Be around, for sure.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
One more thing if you have ADHD, you very typically
catastrophize as far as thinking goes. You're just constantly expecting
the worst, just because over and over and over again
in your life the worst has come around because you
forgot to do something or whatever. So that catastrophic thinking
can actually be an asset in that you can look
(43:58):
at something that everybody's about to do, like, well, we're
all gonna die if we do this that no one
else saw, and you can find a safer option in
that way. It's actually a huge benefit of having ADHD,
even though you have to suffer with catastrophic thinking in
order for that to be an asset too.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
You know.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah, Chuck, I say that we end part.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
One here, Yeah, just getting cooking too, and then we're.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Going to pick up part two and we're going to
talk more about ADHD and part two, and then while
we're talking about ADHD, we'll eventually finish part two and
then that will complete part one and two of ADHD.
What do you think about that.
Speaker 3 (44:36):
For a plan? I think that sounds great.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
And as is custom here, we don't do listener mail
or anything for these two parters, so I guess we'll
just say see you Thursday.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yeah, and finish on that dramatic pause, like the very
special episode of Different Strokes.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the Iheartrate you up,
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Speaker 1 (45:06):
H m hm
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Josh Clark
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