September 13, 2016 • 49 mins
Alexander Hamilton, the "ten dollar founding father," is more than the toast of Broadway. In fact, he just may be the most influential American in history. A brash genius, Hamilton wasn't much of a politician. He was all about policy. Learn all about Hamilton in today's episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode of Stuff You Should Know is sponsored by Squarespace.
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House Stuff Works dot com and New York Hey, and
(00:52):
welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W.
Chuck Bryant, Jerry's over there, and that was Lin Manuel
Miranda in the original Broadway show cast cats of Hamilton's
Oh Yeah, great song? Do you listen to that stuff?
(01:12):
Like Broadway Show sometimes recordings and stuffing. I don't necessarily
seek it out or whatever, but I'm not like turn
it off. Have you listen to Hamilton's I have not
heard a second of Hamilton's even still because that song
was put in in post production. I've still never heard
a second of Hamilton's. I've seen like video on mute,
(01:33):
but that's it. Well, it is no wonder that show
has become a runaway hit because of two things. One,
the music is great, and the book and is great,
and it looks great. I've not seen it yet because
I'm not wealthy, man, don't you have to be? Yeah,
if you want to get a ticket to Hamilton's that's
sold out, Yeah, you gotta pay thousands of dollars. I
(01:57):
can't do it. Um. And the second reason is because
Alexander Hamilton is finally getting his due as perhaps the
most influential American in history. These are big words, buddy, Uh,
show me someone else, uh saying there haven't been influential Americans?
(02:23):
Would I think tops them all? Yeah? You know, I
can't disagree. I think you're absolutely right. Most controversial founding
father for sure, youngest founding father by far. Yeah, he's
an outsider. Wasn't even born in the United States, wasn't
even born in England. He was an immigrant bastard child,
(02:45):
which um yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a lot to
do with his, um how he turned out in life.
Oh yeah, he had a chip on his shoulder, he
had well, yeah, you can put it that way. I
would put it like he had extra drive that a
lot of those like hoity toity blue blood aristocrats founding
(03:06):
fathers didn't have because they didn't need it. They had
a lot of money, they had a lot of opportunity.
This guy picked himself up from the bootstraps, like the
first American Horatio Alger. I think he thought he was
smarter than everyone else. He yes, I get that impression.
(03:27):
But the thing is he was right most of the time.
Well yeah, and if someone came out and disagreed with him,
he was not He wasn't a good politician. He was
not skilled at being deferential or I didn't know how
to bow, certainly didn't know how to curtsy. No, Like
he would come out and say, no, you're completely wrong
(03:48):
for these fourteen reasons, right, and you're ugly? That all
explain at length? Yeah, Um, he'd like poke them in
the belly, pull on their jowels a little bit to
tear their wig off. Yeah. I saw there's this really
great American Experience episode from Yeah. Did you notice there
(04:09):
were like some recognizable actors in there, Like one guy
was like I was like, I recognized that guy from
Fraser and the Wire. And ye, there were a few
das were played the recreated the roles of but not like, oh,
great actor, do you mind daigning to be in this
American Experience? It was like, hey, hungry actor, your agent
(04:30):
called us and we have a role for you, because
this is like back in the nineties seven. I looked
it up. Really good episode though, Yeah, and if you
look at the website for it you can tell it's
from sure, but it was great and in it one
of the historians put it pretty plainly, he was, uh,
excellent statesman, maybe one of the best United States has
(04:51):
ever had. Terrible politicians. One of the parts of being
a politician is um to have finesse. Again, one of
the historians called it an s Yeah, he had. He
didn't learn it. No one taught him that he was
orphaned at age what eleven, no? Thirteen? Possibly fifteen. There's
some dispute over really when he was born and if
(05:12):
he lied about his age. Well, yeah, I mean, let's
just go back to the to the Islands of the
Caribbean in seventeen fifty seven or seventeen fifty five. Is
that the two dates? Possibly? Yeah. If you look at
the official records in Nevis, which I did before this episode,
I went down there and uh, it's it has him
(05:33):
listed as having been born January eleventh, seventeen fifty five.
He always said January eleven, seventeen fifty seven. And there's
actually good reason why he would have fudged his name.
We'll talk about that a minute. Oh, I'll talk about
that in forty eight seconds. So his father was a
Scottish merchant and his mother, her name was Rachel Fawcett.
(05:54):
She was an English French planter's daughter. Uh. He dad
moved the family to St. Croix and then left his family.
Mom died uh in seventy and um, it's interesting. I
was watching this great documentary on Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers,
(06:15):
same thing by Peter Bogdanovitch, and they these music historians
make a point that there's something about a father who
rejects you or a mother who dies when you're young.
And they say, in the case of Tom Petty, he
had both. But they listed like a list of rock
stars like from Bono to Tom Petty, I can't remember
(06:37):
Jimi Hendrix were either rejected by their dads or mothers
died younger both, and they said they have something to prove.
And I was like, dude, that's Alexander Hamilton to a t.
He spent his whole life was something to prove. Live
Manuel Miranda just yeah, he's way ahead of us on this.
But apparently we're the only podcast he does not listen to.
So yeah, or he politely ignored it. Come on, so um,
(07:03):
let's talk about though his his early life, his early situation.
He finds himself an orphan, his father abandoned him, and
he never saw his father for the rest of his life.
And I was like boo, his right, Um, but I
saw elsewhere and I can't I couldn't find it again.
But that that it was explained that his mother had
been married before, and even though she was divorced, she
(07:25):
was not capable legally of being married again, so her
husband or um Alexander's father left her in the family
to prevent her from being um accused of being a
big amist and possibly going to jail. So maybe that
was it. But I only saw that in one place. UM.
Most other people just say the father left in Alexander
(07:47):
never saw him again, and as as a result, he
was not able to inherit uh any estate with mother's estate. No,
but it would have been pretty helpful to have anything,
especially when you're thirteen s last fifteen uh and apparently
had a kind uncle who tried to help him out
and and secure the estate. But now it didn't happen.
(08:08):
It actually went to his mother's first husband. Yeah, and
he moved in with a cousin who then committed suicide.
And so he said, he hasn't had good experiences with
being taken care of. H left to his own devices.
He got a job working for Beachman and Krueger Mercantile.
And this dude, at fourteen was running a major company,
(08:31):
not just a major company, a major company on what,
until the last couple of decades had been the largest
income producing colony in in um the English Empire. Like
it made more money from tobacco and then sugar than
the other thirteen colonies combined. And it was just this
(08:53):
little tiny speck of an island, and this kid is
running the major company on this major island. So it
was it was even bigger than it seems at first blush. Yeah,
he was a child prodigy, he wrote in a newspaper
articles at fourteen, he wrote poetry, published poetry. And uh,
it was clear to everyone at the company. They were like,
this kid, he's he's going places, So let's start a
(09:16):
fund to get him out of here and get him
to New York City. Yeah, because uh, in New York
you can be a new man. Yes, I'm Broadway. That's
from Hamilton's. Okay, I'm gonna drop those in. You're not
gonna know. I'll struggle to make sense of them to
(09:37):
keep it up. Uh, So they did, so they raised
some money and um he went to King's College, which
later became Columbia University. Yeah, and for those of us
who saw our UK tour, they remember that Alexander Hamilton's
shows up at Columbia University to plead with the rioting crowd.
Remember apparently he did that a couple of times. Yeah,
I noticed that too in that documentary. Yeah, it was
(09:58):
like he's a lot of time arguing with like crowds
with torches and pitchforks on the steps of Columbia University.
All right, So it goes to King's College's doing his
studying there. Uh. He really makes a name for himself
in writing, uh political pamphlets, which was kind of the
thing to do. And of that day, there weren't magazines,
(10:22):
there wasn't Tiger Beat no. So, like, if you wanted
to feel a lot to say, he didn't have squarespace, right,
so he would yeah you like that, So he would write, Uh,
he would write political pamphlets and they became very well known. Yeah.
He um was railing against the British monarchy, and it
(10:43):
was very much in favor of the loose confederation that
the colonies had had um created amongst themselves, in their um,
their joints suffering at the hands of the British colonies,
which were like or the British crown, which was actively
trying to punish them um and keep them in line
through like taxation and representation, Um. All the Asians that
(11:06):
you wouldn't like, right and um. Alexander Hamilton definitely saw
this as a potential for um revolution to occur. And
he actually wrote in his journal as a younger man,
back when he's like twelve, thirteen fourteen, that he wished
there a war would happen so that he could prove himself.
(11:28):
It would be a great opportunity to prove himself. And
he probably saw that opportunity and this unrest that was
going on that was being aroused in the colonies, and
he was fanning the flames of it. Yeah. And he
also uh, and this is sort of a side note,
he was the most consistent abolitionist. Oh. Yeah, of all
the founding fathers throughout his entire life. Uh, and for
(11:50):
very well, for two reasons. One he thought it was wrong,
but very practically he thought, you know, some of these
people might be able to do great things for this
country and they're not allowed to. And he was like,
that just doesn't make sense to not let people live
up to their potential. But to make America better, Yeah,
but at least equally is important. He personally found it
(12:12):
abhorrent and despicable, Like he was against slavery from the
time he was a kid. Amazing. Yeah, well he saw
at firsthand too when his family moved to St. Croix
Um they plantations here. Yeah, he he was, he was,
he encountered it, and it had a real impact on him. Alright.
So seventeen seventy six, the Revolution is underway. He joins
(12:35):
as a captain and the Continental Army. And I was
amazed that this little factoid from the PBS saying his
artillery unit that he founded is still around today. It's
the only surviving army unit from the Revolutionary War. Wow,
that's pretty amazing. Yeah, he found it a lot of
stuff that's still around today. Well, in our Customs episode,
(12:58):
we touched on that a little bit in Our Lighthouses episode.
He popped up in that too. Yeah, he's all over
the place. No one that his fingers in a lot
of pots. So he fought like a champ in the
Revolutionary War and impressed Um George Washington, who was pretty
important guy at the time, and he said, you know what,
I like the cut of your jib, kid, why don't
(13:21):
you join me? And he surrounded himself with these young
men who as his team and his family. He called
them that he thought, were, you know, bright guys in
in the future of this country. And he said, you
will be my aide de camp, you'll be my assistant.
And I got a lot of good dudes around me.
They're great military minds. But you're the only one that
(13:41):
can write like you can write like a mug. He did.
He said that you can write like a mug. Is
that in the Broadway show? It should be? I honestly
don't know it could be. It sounds like that could
definitely be in a Hamilton rap. So I said, what's
your name, man, and he said, Alexander Hamilton's Okay, that's
(14:02):
from the show too. Okay, how about this indicate it's
from the show by making jazz hands. Okay, you know what,
that's that's the last of him. Okay, so well, if
you want to keep it up, that's fine. But I'll
say everyone who hasn't seen the show chucks making jazz hands, alright,
and then Jerry will ring a bell post production. Okay, alright,
(14:22):
So he's Washington's assistant. Yeah, and he actually um one
of the Again, the historians on that American experience said,
if you look at Washington's um writing at the Times Correspondence, um,
his uh diaries, I guess probably not his diary. I
don't think he had him write his diaries. Well, his
(14:43):
speeches and things, Um, the best stuff is just obviously
written by Alexander Hamilton's like indisputably so, right, But it
made Washington look really good, and Washington was eternally grateful,
and he he also had aum definite soft spot for
Alexander Hamilton's person and and will for the rest of
his life for sure, stands by him through thick and thin. Yeah,
(15:05):
and um, our own article does a good job of
pointing out that he wasn't just some kid that was
like yes, sir or anything you say, Like from the
very beginning He's like, you know what, this army is
messed up, is disorganized. We need funding. Uh and like
there's a this is a big mess to keep killing people.
Yeah and what And Washington was like I like hearing this.
(15:28):
You know he didn't he didn't want a yes man around. Yeah,
well maybe a couple right, he needs a couple of
lickspittles to keep his boots clean. Lickspittle Mr Burns used
in One Love that um so Washington, Uh, I think
actually Hamilton's was a victim of his own success. Like
(15:50):
Washington liked having him around in this position as an
aide to Camp so much that um Hamilton is like, Okay,
let's let's keep rising through the ranks. And when I
really get out there and fight. And he really railed
against his position for a while and finally Washington was like, okay, fine, fine,
go get out there and fight. And he did. Actually,
he really um honored himself on the battlefield, particularly in Yorktown.
(16:16):
He led his regiment into battle. Let it not like
I'm on horseback back here, but I'm leading you. Like
he was the first guy breaking through the lines and
jumping on like into the trenches with the British and
fighting them hand to hand. Yeah, at least so he
definitely put his money where his mouth was. Like. He
(16:38):
wasn't like, yeah, I'm gonna get out there and fight,
and then when the time came, he was like, I'm
gonna hang back here. He got out there and fought.
I get the impression that he ran through more than
one person. Yeah, and he was a little dude too.
He wasn't you know. He wasn't trying to think of
some big tough guy and the rock. He wasn't the rock.
(16:59):
He was Kevin Hart. Who's that? Uh you know who
Kevin Hart is? Oh? Kevin hart Ish. I thought you're
saying Kevin Hardish, Like that's a person. He's bigger than
Kevin Hart. But yeah, Kevin Harve. Uh how big was
Alexander Hamilton's seven? Oh? Well he's wave breaker. Well those
(17:22):
three inches matter when you're five. But Washington, he was
a giant. He was a big dude, wn't he? Uh?
So the war is over. That's the quickest description of
the Revolutionary War ever. Who won the US one or America?
I guess? And um it's interesting too that documentary pointed
(17:45):
out at one point they were like I don't think
anyone gave much thought to what literally they were going
to do. The day after the war, they were so
like gung ho for it, and then afterward they're like, whoa,
we're in bad shape, Like we're a bankrupt nation. Right.
But even more than that, there the the people who
were running the show. We're pretty content with the idea
(18:07):
of like their state being an independent country. Now. Thought
like Thomas Jefferson referred when when when he called, when
he said my country, he was talking about Virginia, and
he was he was basically of a similar mind to
just about everyone else we would consider a founding father.
There weren't too many people who were thinking like Alexander
(18:28):
Hamilton's whose idea was, hey, let's let's get together. There's
gonna be a lot more peace, a lot less in fighting,
and we're gonna have a lot less headaches with things
like multiple currencies and all that stuff. Let's just come
together and create a centralized federal government. And all these
guys are like, well, who are you nuts? A centralized
federal government? It sounds an awful lot like a monarchy.
(18:51):
And we just threw those cats off. Why would we
want to go back to it. So Hamilton's saw very
clearly that a central, very powerful federal government that was
in control and as an umbrella over the thirteen colonies,
turning them into states assembled under this federal government was
the best way to help this. The these colonies turned states,
(19:15):
and that now turned country to mature to keep going
to progress forward. But he had a real uphill battle
to climb um because there was nobody really who saw
things that way. Yeah, and uh, he knew that the
only way to do this was to have a document
behind him pushing him along, and he did. Uh he
(19:40):
saw the U. S Constitution is a great chance to
do so. And uh, we'll talk about that right after this.
(20:07):
So Chuck Um, A lot of people don't really recognize
that the Revolutionary War ends in seventeen seventy six, but
it wasn't until seventeen eighty seven that the Constitution is written, right,
and in between that time people were just kind of like, okay,
what do we do? There was the Articles of Confederation. Yeah,
(20:27):
they were great, Well, they weren't so great. Actually I
thought they were pretty great. Okay, well, the founding fathers
thought they stunk. And actually they showed up in I
think Philadelphia, and UM we're called there to say, hey, uh,
let's figure something out about this Articles of Confederation. It's
that the the country's bankrupt. We're going nowhere. Um, everybody's
(20:50):
hooked on drugs. We don't know what's going on. Everybody,
come and let's figure out how to make the Articles
of Confederation better. And these founding fathers um all showed up,
these delegates, it's including Alexander Hamilton, who was a delegate
from New York, and they really looked at it and
they're like, this is terrible. Let's just start over. So
they crumple it up, through it over their shoulder, pull
(21:10):
out a fresh piece of paper, said, okay, debate, that's right,
And through that debate, the Constitution of the United States
was drafted. Uh. Hamilton's actually was not there a lot
for the debates because of business and UM. So he
wasn't actually a key member in drafting the Constitution. What
(21:32):
he was um and of course the Constitution was the
document that that indicated a strong central government and a
powerful president. Uh. He came into into play when it
came time for for saying this is the document we're
gonna go forward with. Forgetting it ratified. Um, they needed
nine and thirteen states for it to pass, and there
(21:53):
was a lot of strong opposition, like you were saying,
you know, we were we just got out from under
Britain's rule. Why are we gonna draft this thing with
like these taxes and the central government and we like
all of our little small states making all their own
decisions and um. It turned out to be a big
deal when he and uh John j and James Madison
(22:15):
wrote the Federalist papers, forming the Federalist Party and really
coming out hard like have you ever read like even
the first Federalist paper? Uh, No, it's amazing. And Hamilton's
wrote that the introduction and in it he basically just says,
here are all your questions answered, and here's why you're
(22:38):
all wrong, and here's why this is the way forward,
no questions asked, and I know in it like he
he basically he and Jay and Madison used it as
an opportunity to address every single um opposition to the
Constitution and the adoption of it, including things like, um,
well you know we have a court to inter with
(23:00):
the law so that it's constantly evolving and that kind
of thing. Um, and just explaining why we needed a
powerful executive, but that it would be um balanced out
by these other branches of government as well. Um. And
it worked. These things were getting published in the papers
and and it helped really change the minds of a
lot of people. Yeah. And remarkably, the Federalist Papers have
(23:21):
been cited by the Supreme Court of the United States
more than any other document, including the Constitution. It's pretty
pretty amazing. Yeah, it really is, because I mean, if
you think about it's just these guys are saying, here
are here's our opinion of the constitution, uh, and why
it works. And the Supreme Court says, we're with you, buddy,
that's right. Uh. So he got married along the way
(23:43):
in seventy two, uh, a woman named Elizabeth uh Schyler
Skyler Skyler. Yeah, and um, a big thing happened in sight.
They had the first presidential election, Washington one, and as
his confidant, he appointed quickly Hamilton's as his secretary of Treasury. Uh,
(24:05):
probably the most powerful cabinet position of all. Yeah. And
like we said, we were nearly bankrupt from the Revolutionary War.
We borrowed money from everyone from like they owed money
to the army, they owed money to individuals who supported
the army. They would just go take equipment and money
and say here, we're gonna pay you back one day.
(24:26):
And they literally owed money to American citizens to the
point where they couldn't pay it back. And it was
a disorganized mass of records. And Hamilton's got in there
and most people would have shied away, and he was like,
this is great. I can really get in here and
do what I do best, which is get this on
the right track. Yeah, he's a He's a big picture
guy if there was ever a big picture guy. And
(24:49):
UM historians now look back at Hamilton's and say he
They actually say the man who made America. It's one
of his his UM nicknames, right, which is that's not
for nothing saying something like that. UM. He had a
vision to where the strong central government could create the UM,
(25:13):
the nation that these states comprised or composed UM. And
it was based on four points. Right. One was tariffs,
which we talked about in the Customs episode. UM one
was a central bank and UH investment in infrastructure. And
then a big one called assumption, which was taking all
(25:35):
the state's individual debts and UM the federal government assuming
it and that was a big He had a lot
of trouble with that one because a lot of people
were like, why would you want to do that? Oh,
we understand why you want to make the central government
that much more powerful because will owe you now? Right?
He said, it's way more than that. Um, not only
will yes, you guys, will owe us, but you know
(25:57):
it's a it's a gesture of goodwill, but it legit
themizes this federal government. And it also allows it once
there's an establishment of a national debt, to borrow more
money and to um issue right and to issue bonds
against those debts, which can be traded on the open market.
And I was like, whoa wait, what he's like? Just
just trust me? And um, he was faced with that
(26:19):
a lot like where he understood the steps forward, and
he was he faced opposition and just about every turn.
And I get the imperson that a lot of it
was like from people who weren't getting what he was
getting across because very like like some of them a
century ahead of their time. Like here there was a
panic in seventeen ninety two, a financial panic where somebody
(26:42):
tried to corner the market on treasury bonds and almost
collapse the federal debt right just just almost ruined it
single handedly, and under the guidance of Alexander Hamilton's the
national bank that he had established stepped in and became
a what's called a buyer of last resort, where they
were buying treasury bills at less than what they were worth,
(27:06):
so that you had to be really desperate to go
and sell them to them. Um. And that that wasn't,
I guess, legitimized by economists until like a full century
after that. This guy was just operating on like a
totally different level, like very much ahead of his time. Well,
the idea of creating a national purposefully creating a national
debt seems crazy and no one understood it. And he
(27:30):
came out with quotes like the national debt will be
the cement of our nation and basically like these creditors
are gonna have to get on board and support the
federal government so they can get paid back exactly, and
it really had a unifying effect. Um. He had a
he had a problem getting assumption passed through. It was
(27:50):
blocked on almost every level with the politicians and um.
One of his neighbors in New York at the time
was one Thomas Jefferson, one of his biggest foes throughout
his career, and uh, he worked out a little deal
at a very famous dinner called the Dinner Table Compromise,
wherein Jefferson wanted to move the capital to essentially what
(28:10):
would become Washington, d C. And UM Hamilton's was like, no,
I'd like it here in New York City. He said,
but here's what we'll do. Um, you can move your
capital down there if you throw your support and Madison
was there too, if you guys throw your support behind Assumption. Uh,
and they said, great, that's what we'll do. So he
sacrificed New York City is the capital his own people
(28:33):
because he was like a true New Yorker through and
through by this time, but he was a transplant, a transplant,
and historians point to that is saying like he didn't
have the kind of ties that like native born New
Yorkers had to it necessarily. But that's why the capital
ended up in d C. And uh, that's why Assumption
went through and it changed history. And we also talked
(28:54):
in the Customs episode about how tariffs paid for the
um United States. It's like these high taxes on imports,
especially imported British goods. Um. But that money didn't just
automatically funnel into the infrastructure that built the United States
Industrial Revolution. That was directed by the policies of Alexander
(29:15):
Hamilton's because Jefferson was like, we want to be farmers,
which like I want to be an agricultural society, small government,
and he said, no, where it's at is big government
and a big industrialized nation. That's how we're gonna get ahead.
And you can actually trace the to um political parties
in the United States, or actually the fact that we
have political parties back to the rivalry between Alexander Hamilton's
(29:38):
and Thomas Jefferson and how they saw things, Um, small government,
agrarian based and big government and infrastructure based, industrial based. Yeah,
it was it was the new party was the Republicans
and then the Federalists. Um, nothing to do with Republicans
of modern times to although there was like that whole
(30:01):
small government bent. That's kind of a big deal with Republicans. So, uh,
we have these two parties. Things got really ugly. Uh.
They weren't afraid to I mean, they weren't nice guys
with each other. They weren't afraid to to argue and
yell and scream about the I mean, this is the
direction of the country at very tentative time. You know,
(30:24):
we could have gone one of two ways. So it
was it was a big deal. Yeah, it wasn't just
a matter of passing a couple of laws. It's like,
what kind of country do we want to be? Yeah,
in Hamilton's kind of one? He definitely one. Uh. He
left public office as uh when he resigned as Treasury Secretary,
(30:45):
but he was far from leaving politics, still very heavily involved.
Oh yeah, he kept his his thumb on the Federalist
Party as as much as he could. And um, he
actually ended up basically screwing up the party's chances of
the presidency from that point on when he became involved
(31:07):
in I think the election, right, he kind of destroyed
his own party. Uh Huh. So John Adams was the
country's second president, and Adams was a Federalist, but he
and Hamilton's didn't really get along. They didn't see things
eye to eye. They couldn't stand each other. And um,
they were both members of Washington's cabinet. Uh, and Adams
(31:31):
was very much the older than Um. Alexander Hamilton's and
he kind of got pushed to the side whenever there
was um a in their rivalry is whenever Washington was around,
because he kind of favored Hamilton's more than Adams. Right,
I'm picturing Paul Giamati shoving around lin Manuel Miranda. Right, Okay,
(31:52):
you know, right, one of those guys is cooler than
the other. Who it's Paul Giamati. No, I'm just kidding.
I don't know. Paul giamight is kind of a cool cat. No,
he's In fact, I knew someone who worked on a
movie with him locally and our buddy Craig, and he
was like, he went out with us a few times,
like drinking, and he was like the coolest guy. That's neat. Yeah,
(32:12):
So that's what that's I expect that from him there
in it'sie for cool dudes. Okay. So, um, Paul Giamati
is like, I don't like you Li Manuel, and lim
Manuel is like I don't care sucking egg and um Broadway,
you just had an HBO show, right exactly. So, Um,
when Adams comes to power, he very much freezes um
(32:35):
Hamilton's out of the Federalist Party. Well yeah, and he
he's said some really nasty things. He questioned his integrity.
He called him a bastard, Uh, a bastard, creole immigrant
like he was not nice. Okay, so um Hamilton's doesn't
like this. He starts writing about Adams and just what
(32:58):
a terrible person he thinks as he went after him hard.
But he didn't go after him publicly. It was actually
Aaron Burr, who, from what I understand it was a
pretty big scoundrel. He he got his hands on these
private papers, I think private correspondents and published them just
in time for the eight hundred election. And in the
(33:21):
eight hundred election there John Adams was up for re
election for a second term. Uh, and then Thomas Jefferson
and Aaron Burr were running against him, both as Republicans, right,
and with the publication of these this basically slander against
John Adams at the hands of Alexander Hamilton's it created
(33:41):
enough in fighting in the Federalist Party that they they
were out of the race and it was down to
the two Republicans. They actually tied and congress Um Congress
decided who would win. If I remember correctly, right, yeah,
I think it went to the House and there was
a tie there. Then it went to Congress and uh
(34:01):
the Senate. So what the Senate went to the House
and then the Senate. Yes, I believe that's correct. Okay,
so um they they ultimately voted for Jefferson. And at
the time, if you were the runner up in a
presidential election, you became vice president. So Aaron Burr became
vice president. But was it just tore Hamilton's apart that
he had to figure out who to support in this
(34:23):
He didn't like either one of them. But um, Burr
was just a jerk. He was an aristocratic rich kid
who clearly was getting into politics to become more famous,
to make more money. Uh he was. He was impure
of heart and intention. And despite how Hamilton's felt about Jefferson,
(34:44):
I mean, like this is his mortal enemy basically, yeah,
well one of them, he had a bunch. But despite
how he felt about him, he was like, at least Jefferson,
I think isn't a jerk and wants like good things
for America. And I can't even say that about burr R. Right, So,
like if Alexander ham Alton was a great statesman terrible politician,
alex Aaron Burr was a pretty good politician, terrible statesman. Um. Yeah,
(35:07):
So he threw his support behind Thomas Jefferson UH and
against Aaron Burr so much so that apparently he made
a remark at a dinner party about Aaron Burr's character
that got back to Aaron Burr and it was vicious
enough that he challenged them to a duel. And we'll
talk about that right after this. So we did a
(35:48):
good episode on duels any years ago and we covered
this duel. Uh, but we would be remiss not to
go over it again. UM. Hamilton has been challenged to
a lot of duels over the years, which is no
surprise because he was not afraid to mix it up.
But at the time, duels were like they didn't often
(36:12):
go down. Like you, you could almost always talk your
way out of a duel by doing a certain certain
amount of apologizing without fully like uh, destroying your reputation
as like someone who stood behind his word. And in
this case he Hamilton's very much tried to get out
of this duel. Uh went so far as to almost
(36:32):
offer a full retraction, which is a miracle for Hamilton's
but a Burr was having none of it. He like
really wanted this to go down, and it went down.
It did. Um. It was we hawk in New Jersey,
which is like along the shores of the Hudson and UM.
Three years earlier, Uh, Alexander Hamilton's firstborn son, Philip, who
(36:55):
the family had put basically all of their hopes and
dreams into, was killed in a duel himself. There him
for his dad. Yeah, there was a guy who was
slandering his dad publicly and Philip demanded a retraction and
the guy said, no, dude, down the gauntlet. So yeah,
Philip challenged him to a duel and they met it
we Hawking and Philip was killed at that duel. And
(37:18):
three years later at the same spot when Alexander Hamilton's
met Aaron Burr, historians think this was on his mind
and that he actually um purposefully missed Aaron Burr because
he saw what can happen in a duel. But Aaron
Burr was like, thanks for the free ride, chump, and
shot him in the stomach. Yeah. They were very Nobody
(37:40):
knows for sure what happened. They were conflicting accounts um
whether or not he purposefully missed, whether he didn't shoot
at all and got fired upon and then accidentally fired
his weapon. Um. No one actually saw it go down.
They do know there were two shots. Uh fired though
because of the noise, and UM, yeah, he got a
(38:00):
a bullet through the liver and through his abdomen and
immediately said to his confidant who rushed up to him,
He's like, this is it. Yeah, this is a mortal wound.
And some people even say that he was goating Burr
into killing him that day with the way he handled
(38:20):
the duel and like he was taking his time putting
on his glasses. He had a special gun that had
a hair trigger, which would make it easier to aim. Uh.
There's all these weird, conflicting accounts. Um, it's kind of
frustrating that no one knows like the actual truth. I
think it is frustrating. I that's very odd that he
would have, um wanted to die at this point. It
(38:43):
doesn't seem like his life was well. I don't think
he thought he was gonna die. I think he thought
he could destroy Burr's reputation by being a gentleman and
firing into the air, and then Burr actually shooting him.
He lives and is a bit of a martyr. I
got a living murder that didn't happen. No, he died. No,
And before he died, his his reputation had gone down
(39:06):
quite a bit thanks to an extramarital affair that he
had um starting in I think seventeen ninety one, while
he was still the Secretary of the Treasury. Right. So, uh,
he met a woman named Maria Reynolds who showed up
on his doorstep in Philadelphia and said, Hey, I am
(39:28):
in great trouble. My husband left me with this kid.
I'm from New York. I know you're from New York.
He can can I have some money? And uh, it
just kind of went from there, right, So he ended
up having a I think a three year long affair. Well,
he gave her some money and she said, how can
I ever repay you? And he went, well, I have
one idea. She said okay, and that kind of became
(39:50):
the arrangement. Yep, so um again this one I'm for
three years. And it turned out that um, Mrs Reynolds
husband was a criminal himself and that this was all
an extortion attempt. Um he hadn't left her at all.
They had plotted together and um they were extorting money
(40:11):
from uh, from Alexander Hamilton's and when Mr Reynolds, James
Reynolds was caught in another scandal, um, he said, hey,
get this, you guys should take it easy at me,
because I got some great information. You're gonna love. You know,
the Secretary of the Treasury, Well, me and my wife
have been extorting him what I can only assume is
(40:33):
federal money for years. Now go go talk to him.
And they did. That's right. And Hamilton's uh, he had
one thing he couldn't stand for is for his integrity
to be questioned. And uh, in this case, not integrity
is being a faithful husband, but integrity and stealing from
(40:55):
the government. And he's like, I won't stand for that.
I'm gonna come out and say, you know, I was
having an affair and I was making payments and they
were from my personal funds. Here's the letters to prove it. Yeah,
which was pretty remarkable. It was stroyed his political career
in the process. But he was like, no one's gonna
accuse me of pilfering money from the country that I love. Yeah,
(41:16):
And originally that he was approached by a delegation um
of investigators I think including James Madison, who said no,
James Monroe, I'm sorry, who said, hey man, we're you're
being accused of using government funds as hush money. Um,
you want to you want to speak to this And
he produced the love letters that exonerated him privately, and
(41:41):
Monroe and the other investigators agreed to just keep the
matter private because they saw that that was a false accusation,
that he'd been using his own money to um to
cover the extortion. And uh, but he let them walk
with the love letters provided they kept him confidential. Well,
one of them gave him to Thomas Jefferson, and Jefferson
was like, oh baby, what, thank you God for dropping
(42:04):
this in my lap. I hate this guy, he's my
political rival. I'm going to see to it that these
things are published. And so they got published, and as
a result of them being published, that's when Hamilton was like, well,
I'll published my own explanation, and he did, and he
went he went large with it and went wide and
everyone knew. But like I said, at least he was
proven out to not be ripping off his government, right,
(42:25):
So everybody was like, good for that. But at the
same time, uh, you just confess to an affair in
a in a publication that you published yourself. So that's
the part we're gonna remember. So his star definitely waned
as a result of that. He wasn't um as as
important in the Federalist Party he was. He didn't hold
any civil office any longer. Um. And by the time
(42:49):
he was killed in the duel forty nine years old. Yeah,
and his finances have been pretty stretched. He built a
place called the Grange on thirty five acres and what
is now hard him uh, and it almost bankrupted his
family apparently. Yeah, and he um, like you said, he
had stretched himself too thin. He was out of the
public eye for the most part, and once he died
(43:11):
and was not around to vigorously defend himself, people like
Adams and Jefferson and Madison jumped on him, uh and
started writing these things about you know, he wanted a monarchy,
He wasn't a good guy. He didn't have the the
best interest of the country, which was really a shame.
And for many years I think that had a big
impact on how he was viewed in America. Like, you know,
(43:33):
he doesn't have a statue in Washington, d C. Yeah,
he doesn't have a memorial in Washington, d C. Yet
are they trying to get one? I'm sure lin Manuel
Miranda's like, come on, well, the one guy, that one historian,
it's really great. At the end, he was like, America
is his memorial. Like you're you're living in his memorial.
(43:55):
Pretty powerful. So now scholars have gotten on board and
they said, you know what, this guy was actually perhaps
the most influential person in our history to the America
that we look around at today. Yeah, the coast Guard, lighthouses, lighthouses,
that's it. Uh, the well, just the whole the structure
(44:16):
of our economy, the fact that we have a central bank, um,
the fact that the government intervenes in financial crises. He's
credited with coming up with the stock market after that
panic of He got the biggest traders around to meet
him in New York and say, hey, let's all sign
a letter of cooperation. And that became the New York
(44:38):
Stock Exchange. And he's buried steps from the New York
Stock Exchange. Uh. He founded the Bank of New York.
That was one of three banks that he founded, two
national banks in the Bank of New York and the
Bank of New York actually was still in continuous operation
until I think two thousand eight or two thousand eleven
when Chemical Banker City Group took it over. But it
(45:01):
had been like operating continuously since I think seventeen ninety four. Right.
He founded the New York Post newspaper. Yeah, I had
a what was the original name, the New York Evening Post,
which became the Post, and he founded that so he
could get his word out. Yeah. It was a federalist
newspaper originally. Pretty pretty amazing guy. He did quite a bit.
(45:24):
And yeah, he is starting to get his his due recognition. Yeah.
And he you mentioned the Grange Um. It was the
only home he ever owned in New York. He lived
downtown for most of his life in apartments, but finally
bought that land uh and the suburb of Harlem and
Um in eighteen eighty nine. That home was donated to
(45:45):
a New York church, UH if they moved it two
hundred and fifty feet, which they did, and then in
the nineteen sixties it fell into uh disrepair basically, and
they said, you know, now it's part of the National
Park Service. We need to honor this house. Let's find
it location for it and restore it. And it took
about thirty years and then finally uh in two thousand
(46:06):
eleven September UH fourteen point five million dollars later reopened
to the public near St. Nicholas Park. Pretty amazing, yep.
And he's buried right there behind Trinity Church, around the
corner from the Stock Exchange, lasting legacy. It's on Broadway.
Immigrant bastard child. Amazing, Pretty amazing. So I wonder if
(46:31):
he got a music written about him. At first, when
that first came out, I didn't know a lot about him.
I was like a lot somebody writing a musical about him,
and then you read up on it and you're like, oh,
that's exactly why true underdog. Yeah he was. He was great.
I like him. If you want to know more about
Alexander Hamilton's go to Broadway. Uh. And you can also
(46:52):
type those words in the search bar how stuff works
dot com. And since I said Broadway, it's time for
listener mail, I'm gonna call this rare shout out. Hey guys,
to know us. This isn't your usual m O. But
I was hoping you'd be able to publicly thank my
friend Jeff Beverage. This guy's name. It's a great name.
(47:13):
He's my best friend for fifteen years and it's been
like a brother to me. He's the one that got
me hooked on your show. Recently, he has stepped up
even more after my family suffered a pretty devastating house fire.
We had lots of family and friends reaching out the
support us, but he offered to take in my pet
turtle and toward us that we didn't have room for
in our rental house. It's hard to fathom just how
you'll be able to repay and thank him for thank
(47:36):
all of our family and friends. I know the best
way to thank Bev. So what they call him would
be a shout out from you guys. Even better if
you would call him a schmump, which is a combination
of a schmuck and a chump. Well, I don't know
if we should do that. Well, I mean, it sounds
like it would make Bev's day, So I, for one,
(47:58):
we'll say, Bev, sir, you are a first rate schmump smump.
What if we just made him cry? I doubt it.
I hope you had a great UK tour. We did,
and we look forward to hearing some of the tangents
from the travels you might thanks for all the hours
of entertainment, and that is from Kevin Barrett. Nice. Well,
there you go, Kevin, your wish has been fulfilled. Uh.
(48:20):
You're a schmump too, Kevin, thanks for thanks for that.
Thank you, Bev for being a top notch person. Uh.
And if you want to get in touch with this,
you can hang out with us on Twitter at s
Y s K podcast. You can hang out with me
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out with us on Facebook. Chuck has his own Charles W.
(48:40):
Chuck Bryant. Right, that's right, sir, I've got one called
Super Josh Clark. Check it out. Yeah, good stuff going
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(49:02):
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House Stuff Works dot com and New York Hey, and
(00:52):
welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W.
Chuck Bryant, Jerry's over there, and that was Lin Manuel
Miranda in the original Broadway show cast cats of Hamilton's
Oh Yeah, great song? Do you listen to that stuff?
(01:12):
Like Broadway Show sometimes recordings and stuffing. I don't necessarily
seek it out or whatever, but I'm not like turn
it off. Have you listen to Hamilton's I have not
heard a second of Hamilton's even still because that song
was put in in post production. I've still never heard
a second of Hamilton's. I've seen like video on mute,
(01:33):
but that's it. Well, it is no wonder that show
has become a runaway hit because of two things. One,
the music is great, and the book and is great,
and it looks great. I've not seen it yet because
I'm not wealthy, man, don't you have to be? Yeah,
if you want to get a ticket to Hamilton's that's
sold out, Yeah, you gotta pay thousands of dollars. I
(01:57):
can't do it. Um. And the second reason is because
Alexander Hamilton is finally getting his due as perhaps the
most influential American in history. These are big words, buddy, Uh,
show me someone else, uh saying there haven't been influential Americans?
(02:23):
Would I think tops them all? Yeah? You know, I
can't disagree. I think you're absolutely right. Most controversial founding
father for sure, youngest founding father by far. Yeah, he's
an outsider. Wasn't even born in the United States, wasn't
even born in England. He was an immigrant bastard child,
(02:45):
which um yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a lot to
do with his, um how he turned out in life.
Oh yeah, he had a chip on his shoulder, he
had well, yeah, you can put it that way. I
would put it like he had extra drive that a
lot of those like hoity toity blue blood aristocrats founding
(03:06):
fathers didn't have because they didn't need it. They had
a lot of money, they had a lot of opportunity.
This guy picked himself up from the bootstraps, like the
first American Horatio Alger. I think he thought he was
smarter than everyone else. He yes, I get that impression.
(03:27):
But the thing is he was right most of the time.
Well yeah, and if someone came out and disagreed with him,
he was not He wasn't a good politician. He was
not skilled at being deferential or I didn't know how
to bow, certainly didn't know how to curtsy. No, Like
he would come out and say, no, you're completely wrong
(03:48):
for these fourteen reasons, right, and you're ugly? That all
explain at length? Yeah, Um, he'd like poke them in
the belly, pull on their jowels a little bit to
tear their wig off. Yeah. I saw there's this really
great American Experience episode from Yeah. Did you notice there
(04:09):
were like some recognizable actors in there, Like one guy
was like I was like, I recognized that guy from
Fraser and the Wire. And ye, there were a few
das were played the recreated the roles of but not like, oh,
great actor, do you mind daigning to be in this
American Experience? It was like, hey, hungry actor, your agent
(04:30):
called us and we have a role for you, because
this is like back in the nineties seven. I looked
it up. Really good episode though, Yeah, and if you
look at the website for it you can tell it's
from sure, but it was great and in it one
of the historians put it pretty plainly, he was, uh,
excellent statesman, maybe one of the best United States has
(04:51):
ever had. Terrible politicians. One of the parts of being
a politician is um to have finesse. Again, one of
the historians called it an s Yeah, he had. He
didn't learn it. No one taught him that he was
orphaned at age what eleven, no? Thirteen? Possibly fifteen. There's
some dispute over really when he was born and if
(05:12):
he lied about his age. Well, yeah, I mean, let's
just go back to the to the Islands of the
Caribbean in seventeen fifty seven or seventeen fifty five. Is
that the two dates? Possibly? Yeah. If you look at
the official records in Nevis, which I did before this episode,
I went down there and uh, it's it has him
(05:33):
listed as having been born January eleventh, seventeen fifty five.
He always said January eleven, seventeen fifty seven. And there's
actually good reason why he would have fudged his name.
We'll talk about that a minute. Oh, I'll talk about
that in forty eight seconds. So his father was a
Scottish merchant and his mother, her name was Rachel Fawcett.
(05:54):
She was an English French planter's daughter. Uh. He dad
moved the family to St. Croix and then left his family.
Mom died uh in seventy and um, it's interesting. I
was watching this great documentary on Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers,
(06:15):
same thing by Peter Bogdanovitch, and they these music historians
make a point that there's something about a father who
rejects you or a mother who dies when you're young.
And they say, in the case of Tom Petty, he
had both. But they listed like a list of rock
stars like from Bono to Tom Petty, I can't remember
(06:37):
Jimi Hendrix were either rejected by their dads or mothers
died younger both, and they said they have something to prove.
And I was like, dude, that's Alexander Hamilton to a t.
He spent his whole life was something to prove. Live
Manuel Miranda just yeah, he's way ahead of us on this.
But apparently we're the only podcast he does not listen to.
So yeah, or he politely ignored it. Come on, so um,
(07:03):
let's talk about though his his early life, his early situation.
He finds himself an orphan, his father abandoned him, and
he never saw his father for the rest of his life.
And I was like boo, his right, Um, but I
saw elsewhere and I can't I couldn't find it again.
But that that it was explained that his mother had
been married before, and even though she was divorced, she
(07:25):
was not capable legally of being married again, so her
husband or um Alexander's father left her in the family
to prevent her from being um accused of being a
big amist and possibly going to jail. So maybe that
was it. But I only saw that in one place. UM.
Most other people just say the father left in Alexander
(07:47):
never saw him again, and as as a result, he
was not able to inherit uh any estate with mother's estate. No,
but it would have been pretty helpful to have anything,
especially when you're thirteen s last fifteen uh and apparently
had a kind uncle who tried to help him out
and and secure the estate. But now it didn't happen.
(08:08):
It actually went to his mother's first husband. Yeah, and
he moved in with a cousin who then committed suicide.
And so he said, he hasn't had good experiences with
being taken care of. H left to his own devices.
He got a job working for Beachman and Krueger Mercantile.
And this dude, at fourteen was running a major company,
(08:31):
not just a major company, a major company on what,
until the last couple of decades had been the largest
income producing colony in in um the English Empire. Like
it made more money from tobacco and then sugar than
the other thirteen colonies combined. And it was just this
(08:53):
little tiny speck of an island, and this kid is
running the major company on this major island. So it
was it was even bigger than it seems at first blush. Yeah,
he was a child prodigy, he wrote in a newspaper
articles at fourteen, he wrote poetry, published poetry. And uh,
it was clear to everyone at the company. They were like,
this kid, he's he's going places, So let's start a
(09:16):
fund to get him out of here and get him
to New York City. Yeah, because uh, in New York
you can be a new man. Yes, I'm Broadway. That's
from Hamilton's. Okay, I'm gonna drop those in. You're not
gonna know. I'll struggle to make sense of them to
(09:37):
keep it up. Uh, So they did, so they raised
some money and um he went to King's College, which
later became Columbia University. Yeah, and for those of us
who saw our UK tour, they remember that Alexander Hamilton's
shows up at Columbia University to plead with the rioting crowd.
Remember apparently he did that a couple of times. Yeah,
I noticed that too in that documentary. Yeah, it was
(09:58):
like he's a lot of time arguing with like crowds
with torches and pitchforks on the steps of Columbia University.
All right, So it goes to King's College's doing his
studying there. Uh. He really makes a name for himself
in writing, uh political pamphlets, which was kind of the
thing to do. And of that day, there weren't magazines,
(10:22):
there wasn't Tiger Beat no. So, like, if you wanted
to feel a lot to say, he didn't have squarespace, right,
so he would yeah you like that, So he would write, Uh,
he would write political pamphlets and they became very well known. Yeah.
He um was railing against the British monarchy, and it
(10:43):
was very much in favor of the loose confederation that
the colonies had had um created amongst themselves, in their um,
their joints suffering at the hands of the British colonies,
which were like or the British crown, which was actively
trying to punish them um and keep them in line
through like taxation and representation, Um. All the Asians that
(11:06):
you wouldn't like, right and um. Alexander Hamilton definitely saw
this as a potential for um revolution to occur. And
he actually wrote in his journal as a younger man,
back when he's like twelve, thirteen fourteen, that he wished
there a war would happen so that he could prove himself.
(11:28):
It would be a great opportunity to prove himself. And
he probably saw that opportunity and this unrest that was
going on that was being aroused in the colonies, and
he was fanning the flames of it. Yeah. And he
also uh, and this is sort of a side note,
he was the most consistent abolitionist. Oh. Yeah, of all
the founding fathers throughout his entire life. Uh, and for
(11:50):
very well, for two reasons. One he thought it was wrong,
but very practically he thought, you know, some of these
people might be able to do great things for this
country and they're not allowed to. And he was like,
that just doesn't make sense to not let people live
up to their potential. But to make America better, Yeah,
but at least equally is important. He personally found it
(12:12):
abhorrent and despicable, Like he was against slavery from the
time he was a kid. Amazing. Yeah, well he saw
at firsthand too when his family moved to St. Croix
Um they plantations here. Yeah, he he was, he was,
he encountered it, and it had a real impact on him. Alright.
So seventeen seventy six, the Revolution is underway. He joins
(12:35):
as a captain and the Continental Army. And I was
amazed that this little factoid from the PBS saying his
artillery unit that he founded is still around today. It's
the only surviving army unit from the Revolutionary War. Wow,
that's pretty amazing. Yeah, he found it a lot of
stuff that's still around today. Well, in our Customs episode,
(12:58):
we touched on that a little bit in Our Lighthouses episode.
He popped up in that too. Yeah, he's all over
the place. No one that his fingers in a lot
of pots. So he fought like a champ in the
Revolutionary War and impressed Um George Washington, who was pretty
important guy at the time, and he said, you know what,
I like the cut of your jib, kid, why don't
(13:21):
you join me? And he surrounded himself with these young
men who as his team and his family. He called
them that he thought, were, you know, bright guys in
in the future of this country. And he said, you
will be my aide de camp, you'll be my assistant.
And I got a lot of good dudes around me.
They're great military minds. But you're the only one that
(13:41):
can write like you can write like a mug. He did.
He said that you can write like a mug. Is
that in the Broadway show? It should be? I honestly
don't know it could be. It sounds like that could
definitely be in a Hamilton rap. So I said, what's
your name, man, and he said, Alexander Hamilton's Okay, that's
(14:02):
from the show too. Okay, how about this indicate it's
from the show by making jazz hands. Okay, you know what,
that's that's the last of him. Okay, so well, if
you want to keep it up, that's fine. But I'll
say everyone who hasn't seen the show chucks making jazz hands, alright,
and then Jerry will ring a bell post production. Okay, alright,
(14:22):
So he's Washington's assistant. Yeah, and he actually um one
of the Again, the historians on that American experience said,
if you look at Washington's um writing at the Times Correspondence, um,
his uh diaries, I guess probably not his diary. I
don't think he had him write his diaries. Well, his
(14:43):
speeches and things, Um, the best stuff is just obviously
written by Alexander Hamilton's like indisputably so, right, But it
made Washington look really good, and Washington was eternally grateful,
and he he also had aum definite soft spot for
Alexander Hamilton's person and and will for the rest of
his life for sure, stands by him through thick and thin. Yeah,
(15:05):
and um, our own article does a good job of
pointing out that he wasn't just some kid that was
like yes, sir or anything you say, Like from the
very beginning He's like, you know what, this army is
messed up, is disorganized. We need funding. Uh and like
there's a this is a big mess to keep killing people.
Yeah and what And Washington was like I like hearing this.
(15:28):
You know he didn't he didn't want a yes man around. Yeah,
well maybe a couple right, he needs a couple of
lickspittles to keep his boots clean. Lickspittle Mr Burns used
in One Love that um so Washington, Uh, I think
actually Hamilton's was a victim of his own success. Like
(15:50):
Washington liked having him around in this position as an
aide to Camp so much that um Hamilton is like, Okay,
let's let's keep rising through the ranks. And when I
really get out there and fight. And he really railed
against his position for a while and finally Washington was like, okay, fine, fine,
go get out there and fight. And he did. Actually,
he really um honored himself on the battlefield, particularly in Yorktown.
(16:16):
He led his regiment into battle. Let it not like
I'm on horseback back here, but I'm leading you. Like
he was the first guy breaking through the lines and
jumping on like into the trenches with the British and
fighting them hand to hand. Yeah, at least so he
definitely put his money where his mouth was. Like. He
(16:38):
wasn't like, yeah, I'm gonna get out there and fight,
and then when the time came, he was like, I'm
gonna hang back here. He got out there and fought.
I get the impression that he ran through more than
one person. Yeah, and he was a little dude too.
He wasn't you know. He wasn't trying to think of
some big tough guy and the rock. He wasn't the rock.
(16:59):
He was Kevin Hart. Who's that? Uh you know who
Kevin Hart is? Oh? Kevin hart Ish. I thought you're
saying Kevin Hardish, Like that's a person. He's bigger than
Kevin Hart. But yeah, Kevin Harve. Uh how big was
Alexander Hamilton's seven? Oh? Well he's wave breaker. Well those
(17:22):
three inches matter when you're five. But Washington, he was
a giant. He was a big dude, wn't he? Uh?
So the war is over. That's the quickest description of
the Revolutionary War ever. Who won the US one or America?
I guess? And um it's interesting too that documentary pointed
(17:45):
out at one point they were like I don't think
anyone gave much thought to what literally they were going
to do. The day after the war, they were so
like gung ho for it, and then afterward they're like, whoa,
we're in bad shape, Like we're a bankrupt nation. Right.
But even more than that, there the the people who
were running the show. We're pretty content with the idea
(18:07):
of like their state being an independent country. Now. Thought
like Thomas Jefferson referred when when when he called, when
he said my country, he was talking about Virginia, and
he was he was basically of a similar mind to
just about everyone else we would consider a founding father.
There weren't too many people who were thinking like Alexander
(18:28):
Hamilton's whose idea was, hey, let's let's get together. There's
gonna be a lot more peace, a lot less in fighting,
and we're gonna have a lot less headaches with things
like multiple currencies and all that stuff. Let's just come
together and create a centralized federal government. And all these
guys are like, well, who are you nuts? A centralized
federal government? It sounds an awful lot like a monarchy.
(18:51):
And we just threw those cats off. Why would we
want to go back to it. So Hamilton's saw very
clearly that a central, very powerful federal government that was
in control and as an umbrella over the thirteen colonies,
turning them into states assembled under this federal government was
the best way to help this. The these colonies turned states,
(19:15):
and that now turned country to mature to keep going
to progress forward. But he had a real uphill battle
to climb um because there was nobody really who saw
things that way. Yeah, and uh, he knew that the
only way to do this was to have a document
behind him pushing him along, and he did. Uh he
(19:40):
saw the U. S Constitution is a great chance to
do so. And uh, we'll talk about that right after this.
(20:07):
So Chuck Um, A lot of people don't really recognize
that the Revolutionary War ends in seventeen seventy six, but
it wasn't until seventeen eighty seven that the Constitution is written, right,
and in between that time people were just kind of like, okay,
what do we do? There was the Articles of Confederation. Yeah,
(20:27):
they were great, Well, they weren't so great. Actually I
thought they were pretty great. Okay, well, the founding fathers
thought they stunk. And actually they showed up in I
think Philadelphia, and UM we're called there to say, hey, uh,
let's figure something out about this Articles of Confederation. It's
that the the country's bankrupt. We're going nowhere. Um, everybody's
(20:50):
hooked on drugs. We don't know what's going on. Everybody,
come and let's figure out how to make the Articles
of Confederation better. And these founding fathers um all showed up,
these delegates, it's including Alexander Hamilton, who was a delegate
from New York, and they really looked at it and
they're like, this is terrible. Let's just start over. So
they crumple it up, through it over their shoulder, pull
(21:10):
out a fresh piece of paper, said, okay, debate, that's right,
And through that debate, the Constitution of the United States
was drafted. Uh. Hamilton's actually was not there a lot
for the debates because of business and UM. So he
wasn't actually a key member in drafting the Constitution. What
(21:32):
he was um and of course the Constitution was the
document that that indicated a strong central government and a
powerful president. Uh. He came into into play when it
came time for for saying this is the document we're
gonna go forward with. Forgetting it ratified. Um, they needed
nine and thirteen states for it to pass, and there
(21:53):
was a lot of strong opposition, like you were saying,
you know, we were we just got out from under
Britain's rule. Why are we gonna draft this thing with
like these taxes and the central government and we like
all of our little small states making all their own
decisions and um. It turned out to be a big
deal when he and uh John j and James Madison
(22:15):
wrote the Federalist papers, forming the Federalist Party and really
coming out hard like have you ever read like even
the first Federalist paper? Uh, No, it's amazing. And Hamilton's
wrote that the introduction and in it he basically just says,
here are all your questions answered, and here's why you're
(22:38):
all wrong, and here's why this is the way forward,
no questions asked, and I know in it like he
he basically he and Jay and Madison used it as
an opportunity to address every single um opposition to the
Constitution and the adoption of it, including things like, um,
well you know we have a court to inter with
(23:00):
the law so that it's constantly evolving and that kind
of thing. Um, and just explaining why we needed a
powerful executive, but that it would be um balanced out
by these other branches of government as well. Um. And
it worked. These things were getting published in the papers
and and it helped really change the minds of a
lot of people. Yeah. And remarkably, the Federalist Papers have
(23:21):
been cited by the Supreme Court of the United States
more than any other document, including the Constitution. It's pretty
pretty amazing. Yeah, it really is, because I mean, if
you think about it's just these guys are saying, here
are here's our opinion of the constitution, uh, and why
it works. And the Supreme Court says, we're with you, buddy,
that's right. Uh. So he got married along the way
(23:43):
in seventy two, uh, a woman named Elizabeth uh Schyler
Skyler Skyler. Yeah, and um, a big thing happened in sight.
They had the first presidential election, Washington one, and as
his confidant, he appointed quickly Hamilton's as his secretary of Treasury. Uh,
(24:05):
probably the most powerful cabinet position of all. Yeah. And
like we said, we were nearly bankrupt from the Revolutionary War.
We borrowed money from everyone from like they owed money
to the army, they owed money to individuals who supported
the army. They would just go take equipment and money
and say here, we're gonna pay you back one day.
(24:26):
And they literally owed money to American citizens to the
point where they couldn't pay it back. And it was
a disorganized mass of records. And Hamilton's got in there
and most people would have shied away, and he was like,
this is great. I can really get in here and
do what I do best, which is get this on
the right track. Yeah, he's a He's a big picture
guy if there was ever a big picture guy. And
(24:49):
UM historians now look back at Hamilton's and say he
They actually say the man who made America. It's one
of his his UM nicknames, right, which is that's not
for nothing saying something like that. UM. He had a
vision to where the strong central government could create the UM,
(25:13):
the nation that these states comprised or composed UM. And
it was based on four points. Right. One was tariffs,
which we talked about in the Customs episode. UM one
was a central bank and UH investment in infrastructure. And
then a big one called assumption, which was taking all
(25:35):
the state's individual debts and UM the federal government assuming
it and that was a big He had a lot
of trouble with that one because a lot of people
were like, why would you want to do that? Oh,
we understand why you want to make the central government
that much more powerful because will owe you now? Right?
He said, it's way more than that. Um, not only
will yes, you guys, will owe us, but you know
(25:57):
it's a it's a gesture of goodwill, but it legit
themizes this federal government. And it also allows it once
there's an establishment of a national debt, to borrow more
money and to um issue right and to issue bonds
against those debts, which can be traded on the open market.
And I was like, whoa wait, what he's like? Just
just trust me? And um, he was faced with that
(26:19):
a lot like where he understood the steps forward, and
he was he faced opposition and just about every turn.
And I get the imperson that a lot of it
was like from people who weren't getting what he was
getting across because very like like some of them a
century ahead of their time. Like here there was a
panic in seventeen ninety two, a financial panic where somebody
(26:42):
tried to corner the market on treasury bonds and almost
collapse the federal debt right just just almost ruined it
single handedly, and under the guidance of Alexander Hamilton's the
national bank that he had established stepped in and became
a what's called a buyer of last resort, where they
were buying treasury bills at less than what they were worth,
(27:06):
so that you had to be really desperate to go
and sell them to them. Um. And that that wasn't,
I guess, legitimized by economists until like a full century
after that. This guy was just operating on like a
totally different level, like very much ahead of his time. Well,
the idea of creating a national purposefully creating a national
debt seems crazy and no one understood it. And he
(27:30):
came out with quotes like the national debt will be
the cement of our nation and basically like these creditors
are gonna have to get on board and support the
federal government so they can get paid back exactly, and
it really had a unifying effect. Um. He had a
he had a problem getting assumption passed through. It was
(27:50):
blocked on almost every level with the politicians and um.
One of his neighbors in New York at the time
was one Thomas Jefferson, one of his biggest foes throughout
his career, and uh, he worked out a little deal
at a very famous dinner called the Dinner Table Compromise,
wherein Jefferson wanted to move the capital to essentially what
(28:10):
would become Washington, d C. And UM Hamilton's was like, no,
I'd like it here in New York City. He said,
but here's what we'll do. Um, you can move your
capital down there if you throw your support and Madison
was there too, if you guys throw your support behind Assumption. Uh,
and they said, great, that's what we'll do. So he
sacrificed New York City is the capital his own people
(28:33):
because he was like a true New Yorker through and
through by this time, but he was a transplant, a transplant,
and historians point to that is saying like he didn't
have the kind of ties that like native born New
Yorkers had to it necessarily. But that's why the capital
ended up in d C. And uh, that's why Assumption
went through and it changed history. And we also talked
(28:54):
in the Customs episode about how tariffs paid for the
um United States. It's like these high taxes on imports,
especially imported British goods. Um. But that money didn't just
automatically funnel into the infrastructure that built the United States
Industrial Revolution. That was directed by the policies of Alexander
(29:15):
Hamilton's because Jefferson was like, we want to be farmers,
which like I want to be an agricultural society, small government,
and he said, no, where it's at is big government
and a big industrialized nation. That's how we're gonna get ahead.
And you can actually trace the to um political parties
in the United States, or actually the fact that we
have political parties back to the rivalry between Alexander Hamilton's
(29:38):
and Thomas Jefferson and how they saw things, Um, small government,
agrarian based and big government and infrastructure based, industrial based. Yeah,
it was it was the new party was the Republicans
and then the Federalists. Um, nothing to do with Republicans
of modern times to although there was like that whole
(30:01):
small government bent. That's kind of a big deal with Republicans. So, uh,
we have these two parties. Things got really ugly. Uh.
They weren't afraid to I mean, they weren't nice guys
with each other. They weren't afraid to to argue and
yell and scream about the I mean, this is the
direction of the country at very tentative time. You know,
(30:24):
we could have gone one of two ways. So it
was it was a big deal. Yeah, it wasn't just
a matter of passing a couple of laws. It's like,
what kind of country do we want to be? Yeah,
in Hamilton's kind of one? He definitely one. Uh. He
left public office as uh when he resigned as Treasury Secretary,
(30:45):
but he was far from leaving politics, still very heavily involved.
Oh yeah, he kept his his thumb on the Federalist
Party as as much as he could. And um, he
actually ended up basically screwing up the party's chances of
the presidency from that point on when he became involved
(31:07):
in I think the election, right, he kind of destroyed
his own party. Uh Huh. So John Adams was the
country's second president, and Adams was a Federalist, but he
and Hamilton's didn't really get along. They didn't see things
eye to eye. They couldn't stand each other. And um,
they were both members of Washington's cabinet. Uh, and Adams
(31:31):
was very much the older than Um. Alexander Hamilton's and
he kind of got pushed to the side whenever there
was um a in their rivalry is whenever Washington was around,
because he kind of favored Hamilton's more than Adams. Right,
I'm picturing Paul Giamati shoving around lin Manuel Miranda. Right, Okay,
(31:52):
you know, right, one of those guys is cooler than
the other. Who it's Paul Giamati. No, I'm just kidding.
I don't know. Paul giamight is kind of a cool cat. No,
he's In fact, I knew someone who worked on a
movie with him locally and our buddy Craig, and he
was like, he went out with us a few times,
like drinking, and he was like the coolest guy. That's neat. Yeah,
(32:12):
So that's what that's I expect that from him there
in it'sie for cool dudes. Okay. So, um, Paul Giamati
is like, I don't like you Li Manuel, and lim
Manuel is like I don't care sucking egg and um Broadway,
you just had an HBO show, right exactly. So, Um,
when Adams comes to power, he very much freezes um
(32:35):
Hamilton's out of the Federalist Party. Well yeah, and he
he's said some really nasty things. He questioned his integrity.
He called him a bastard, Uh, a bastard, creole immigrant
like he was not nice. Okay, so um Hamilton's doesn't
like this. He starts writing about Adams and just what
(32:58):
a terrible person he thinks as he went after him hard.
But he didn't go after him publicly. It was actually
Aaron Burr, who, from what I understand it was a
pretty big scoundrel. He he got his hands on these
private papers, I think private correspondents and published them just
in time for the eight hundred election. And in the
(33:21):
eight hundred election there John Adams was up for re
election for a second term. Uh, and then Thomas Jefferson
and Aaron Burr were running against him, both as Republicans, right,
and with the publication of these this basically slander against
John Adams at the hands of Alexander Hamilton's it created
(33:41):
enough in fighting in the Federalist Party that they they
were out of the race and it was down to
the two Republicans. They actually tied and congress Um Congress
decided who would win. If I remember correctly, right, yeah,
I think it went to the House and there was
a tie there. Then it went to Congress and uh
(34:01):
the Senate. So what the Senate went to the House
and then the Senate. Yes, I believe that's correct. Okay,
so um they they ultimately voted for Jefferson. And at
the time, if you were the runner up in a
presidential election, you became vice president. So Aaron Burr became
vice president. But was it just tore Hamilton's apart that
he had to figure out who to support in this
(34:23):
He didn't like either one of them. But um, Burr
was just a jerk. He was an aristocratic rich kid
who clearly was getting into politics to become more famous,
to make more money. Uh he was. He was impure
of heart and intention. And despite how Hamilton's felt about Jefferson,
(34:44):
I mean, like this is his mortal enemy basically, yeah,
well one of them, he had a bunch. But despite
how he felt about him, he was like, at least Jefferson,
I think isn't a jerk and wants like good things
for America. And I can't even say that about burr R. Right, So,
like if Alexander ham Alton was a great statesman terrible politician,
alex Aaron Burr was a pretty good politician, terrible statesman. Um. Yeah,
(35:07):
So he threw his support behind Thomas Jefferson UH and
against Aaron Burr so much so that apparently he made
a remark at a dinner party about Aaron Burr's character
that got back to Aaron Burr and it was vicious
enough that he challenged them to a duel. And we'll
talk about that right after this. So we did a
(35:48):
good episode on duels any years ago and we covered
this duel. Uh, but we would be remiss not to
go over it again. UM. Hamilton has been challenged to
a lot of duels over the years, which is no
surprise because he was not afraid to mix it up.
But at the time, duels were like they didn't often
(36:12):
go down. Like you, you could almost always talk your
way out of a duel by doing a certain certain
amount of apologizing without fully like uh, destroying your reputation
as like someone who stood behind his word. And in
this case he Hamilton's very much tried to get out
of this duel. Uh went so far as to almost
(36:32):
offer a full retraction, which is a miracle for Hamilton's
but a Burr was having none of it. He like
really wanted this to go down, and it went down.
It did. Um. It was we hawk in New Jersey,
which is like along the shores of the Hudson and UM.
Three years earlier, Uh, Alexander Hamilton's firstborn son, Philip, who
(36:55):
the family had put basically all of their hopes and
dreams into, was killed in a duel himself. There him
for his dad. Yeah, there was a guy who was
slandering his dad publicly and Philip demanded a retraction and
the guy said, no, dude, down the gauntlet. So yeah,
Philip challenged him to a duel and they met it
we Hawking and Philip was killed at that duel. And
(37:18):
three years later at the same spot when Alexander Hamilton's
met Aaron Burr, historians think this was on his mind
and that he actually um purposefully missed Aaron Burr because
he saw what can happen in a duel. But Aaron
Burr was like, thanks for the free ride, chump, and
shot him in the stomach. Yeah. They were very Nobody
(37:40):
knows for sure what happened. They were conflicting accounts um
whether or not he purposefully missed, whether he didn't shoot
at all and got fired upon and then accidentally fired
his weapon. Um. No one actually saw it go down.
They do know there were two shots. Uh fired though
because of the noise, and UM, yeah, he got a
(38:00):
a bullet through the liver and through his abdomen and
immediately said to his confidant who rushed up to him,
He's like, this is it. Yeah, this is a mortal wound.
And some people even say that he was goating Burr
into killing him that day with the way he handled
(38:20):
the duel and like he was taking his time putting
on his glasses. He had a special gun that had
a hair trigger, which would make it easier to aim. Uh.
There's all these weird, conflicting accounts. Um, it's kind of
frustrating that no one knows like the actual truth. I
think it is frustrating. I that's very odd that he
would have, um wanted to die at this point. It
(38:43):
doesn't seem like his life was well. I don't think
he thought he was gonna die. I think he thought
he could destroy Burr's reputation by being a gentleman and
firing into the air, and then Burr actually shooting him.
He lives and is a bit of a martyr. I
got a living murder that didn't happen. No, he died. No,
And before he died, his his reputation had gone down
(39:06):
quite a bit thanks to an extramarital affair that he
had um starting in I think seventeen ninety one, while
he was still the Secretary of the Treasury. Right. So, uh,
he met a woman named Maria Reynolds who showed up
on his doorstep in Philadelphia and said, Hey, I am
(39:28):
in great trouble. My husband left me with this kid.
I'm from New York. I know you're from New York.
He can can I have some money? And uh, it
just kind of went from there, right, So he ended
up having a I think a three year long affair. Well,
he gave her some money and she said, how can
I ever repay you? And he went, well, I have
one idea. She said okay, and that kind of became
(39:50):
the arrangement. Yep, so um again this one I'm for
three years. And it turned out that um, Mrs Reynolds
husband was a criminal himself and that this was all
an extortion attempt. Um he hadn't left her at all.
They had plotted together and um they were extorting money
(40:11):
from uh, from Alexander Hamilton's and when Mr Reynolds, James
Reynolds was caught in another scandal, um, he said, hey,
get this, you guys should take it easy at me,
because I got some great information. You're gonna love. You know,
the Secretary of the Treasury, Well, me and my wife
have been extorting him what I can only assume is
(40:33):
federal money for years. Now go go talk to him.
And they did. That's right. And Hamilton's uh, he had
one thing he couldn't stand for is for his integrity
to be questioned. And uh, in this case, not integrity
is being a faithful husband, but integrity and stealing from
(40:55):
the government. And he's like, I won't stand for that.
I'm gonna come out and say, you know, I was
having an affair and I was making payments and they
were from my personal funds. Here's the letters to prove it. Yeah,
which was pretty remarkable. It was stroyed his political career
in the process. But he was like, no one's gonna
accuse me of pilfering money from the country that I love. Yeah,
(41:16):
And originally that he was approached by a delegation um
of investigators I think including James Madison, who said no,
James Monroe, I'm sorry, who said, hey man, we're you're
being accused of using government funds as hush money. Um,
you want to you want to speak to this And
he produced the love letters that exonerated him privately, and
(41:41):
Monroe and the other investigators agreed to just keep the
matter private because they saw that that was a false accusation,
that he'd been using his own money to um to
cover the extortion. And uh, but he let them walk
with the love letters provided they kept him confidential. Well,
one of them gave him to Thomas Jefferson, and Jefferson
was like, oh baby, what, thank you God for dropping
(42:04):
this in my lap. I hate this guy, he's my
political rival. I'm going to see to it that these
things are published. And so they got published, and as
a result of them being published, that's when Hamilton was like, well,
I'll published my own explanation, and he did, and he
went he went large with it and went wide and
everyone knew. But like I said, at least he was
proven out to not be ripping off his government, right,
(42:25):
So everybody was like, good for that. But at the
same time, uh, you just confess to an affair in
a in a publication that you published yourself. So that's
the part we're gonna remember. So his star definitely waned
as a result of that. He wasn't um as as
important in the Federalist Party he was. He didn't hold
any civil office any longer. Um. And by the time
(42:49):
he was killed in the duel forty nine years old. Yeah,
and his finances have been pretty stretched. He built a
place called the Grange on thirty five acres and what
is now hard him uh, and it almost bankrupted his
family apparently. Yeah, and he um, like you said, he
had stretched himself too thin. He was out of the
public eye for the most part, and once he died
(43:11):
and was not around to vigorously defend himself, people like
Adams and Jefferson and Madison jumped on him, uh and
started writing these things about you know, he wanted a monarchy,
He wasn't a good guy. He didn't have the the
best interest of the country, which was really a shame.
And for many years I think that had a big
impact on how he was viewed in America. Like, you know,
(43:33):
he doesn't have a statue in Washington, d C. Yeah,
he doesn't have a memorial in Washington, d C. Yet
are they trying to get one? I'm sure lin Manuel
Miranda's like, come on, well, the one guy, that one historian,
it's really great. At the end, he was like, America
is his memorial. Like you're you're living in his memorial.
(43:55):
Pretty powerful. So now scholars have gotten on board and
they said, you know what, this guy was actually perhaps
the most influential person in our history to the America
that we look around at today. Yeah, the coast Guard, lighthouses, lighthouses,
that's it. Uh, the well, just the whole the structure
(44:16):
of our economy, the fact that we have a central bank, um,
the fact that the government intervenes in financial crises. He's
credited with coming up with the stock market after that
panic of He got the biggest traders around to meet
him in New York and say, hey, let's all sign
a letter of cooperation. And that became the New York
(44:38):
Stock Exchange. And he's buried steps from the New York
Stock Exchange. Uh. He founded the Bank of New York.
That was one of three banks that he founded, two
national banks in the Bank of New York and the
Bank of New York actually was still in continuous operation
until I think two thousand eight or two thousand eleven
when Chemical Banker City Group took it over. But it
(45:01):
had been like operating continuously since I think seventeen ninety four. Right.
He founded the New York Post newspaper. Yeah, I had
a what was the original name, the New York Evening Post,
which became the Post, and he founded that so he
could get his word out. Yeah. It was a federalist
newspaper originally. Pretty pretty amazing guy. He did quite a bit.
(45:24):
And yeah, he is starting to get his his due recognition. Yeah.
And he you mentioned the Grange Um. It was the
only home he ever owned in New York. He lived
downtown for most of his life in apartments, but finally
bought that land uh and the suburb of Harlem and
Um in eighteen eighty nine. That home was donated to
(45:45):
a New York church, UH if they moved it two
hundred and fifty feet, which they did, and then in
the nineteen sixties it fell into uh disrepair basically, and
they said, you know, now it's part of the National
Park Service. We need to honor this house. Let's find
it location for it and restore it. And it took
about thirty years and then finally uh in two thousand
(46:06):
eleven September UH fourteen point five million dollars later reopened
to the public near St. Nicholas Park. Pretty amazing, yep.
And he's buried right there behind Trinity Church, around the
corner from the Stock Exchange, lasting legacy. It's on Broadway.
Immigrant bastard child. Amazing, Pretty amazing. So I wonder if
(46:31):
he got a music written about him. At first, when
that first came out, I didn't know a lot about him.
I was like a lot somebody writing a musical about him,
and then you read up on it and you're like, oh,
that's exactly why true underdog. Yeah he was. He was great.
I like him. If you want to know more about
Alexander Hamilton's go to Broadway. Uh. And you can also
(46:52):
type those words in the search bar how stuff works
dot com. And since I said Broadway, it's time for
listener mail, I'm gonna call this rare shout out. Hey guys,
to know us. This isn't your usual m O. But
I was hoping you'd be able to publicly thank my
friend Jeff Beverage. This guy's name. It's a great name.
(47:13):
He's my best friend for fifteen years and it's been
like a brother to me. He's the one that got
me hooked on your show. Recently, he has stepped up
even more after my family suffered a pretty devastating house fire.
We had lots of family and friends reaching out the
support us, but he offered to take in my pet
turtle and toward us that we didn't have room for
in our rental house. It's hard to fathom just how
you'll be able to repay and thank him for thank
(47:36):
all of our family and friends. I know the best
way to thank Bev. So what they call him would
be a shout out from you guys. Even better if
you would call him a schmump, which is a combination
of a schmuck and a chump. Well, I don't know
if we should do that. Well, I mean, it sounds
like it would make Bev's day, So I, for one,
(47:58):
we'll say, Bev, sir, you are a first rate schmump smump.
What if we just made him cry? I doubt it.
I hope you had a great UK tour. We did,
and we look forward to hearing some of the tangents
from the travels you might thanks for all the hours
of entertainment, and that is from Kevin Barrett. Nice. Well,
there you go, Kevin, your wish has been fulfilled. Uh.
(48:20):
You're a schmump too, Kevin, thanks for thanks for that.
Thank you, Bev for being a top notch person. Uh.
And if you want to get in touch with this,
you can hang out with us on Twitter at s
Y s K podcast. You can hang out with me
too at Josh Underscore, um Underscore Clark. You can hang
out with us on Facebook. Chuck has his own Charles W.
(48:40):
Chuck Bryant. Right, that's right, sir, I've got one called
Super Josh Clark. Check it out. Yeah, good stuff going
on in those places. Yeah. And then of course you
can hang out the official Stuff you Should Know page
at Facebook dot com, slash stuff you Should Know. We're
on Instagram. You can send us an emails, the Stuff Podcast,
the House, Stuff Works dot com, and as always, you
can join us at our humble abode on the web,
(49:02):
Stuff You Show dot com for more on this and
thousands of other topics. Is it how Stuff Works dot
com
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