June 29, 2023 • 51 mins
If you thought caterpillars were awesome, just wait until you see them with colorful, iridescent wings!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everyone, we want to announce that we have our
final three shows of the year on the books August
twelfth in Orlando, Florida, September sixth in Nashville, Tennessee, and
winding it up right here in Atlanta September ninth.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
They're going to be great, just great, great, great great.
So if you want to come see the Stuff you
Should Know greatness, the last of it for the year,
you can by going to stuff youshould Know dot com
and checking out our tour page or going to link
tree slash sysk. Either way you'll get links to tickets
and all the info you need. We'll see you starting
in August.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is Stuff you
Should Know, Part two of a one to two punch
of insect Goodness.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, Caterpillars hopefully you just listen to. If you did,
you might want to, because really, you know, without Caterpillar
there is no Butterfly episode. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I feel like they could stand on their own, Like,
I don't think you have to have listened to one
to understand what we're going to talk about here.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
No, no, no, but you know we're probably gonna say
when it comes time to talk about how the caterpillar
turns into a butterfly, just go back in time to
two days ago and listen to that one.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Right, we'll be like.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
And once again we have to thank HowStuffWorks dot Com
and our former and current colleague Tracy Wilson, as well
as our former colleague not current, Jennifer Horton, wrote a
fun piece about butterfly gardens that we're going to talk
about at the end. But I forgot about Jennifer. You
remember her?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Oh yeah, she was great. She wrote lots of great stuff.
She's a good person.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
So, Jennifer, I don't know if you're out there and listen,
but Hi, Hi.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
It's been a while, yeah, since like two thousand and
eight or nine, in a long while. Well, so we're
talking about butterflies, and we should probably kind of pick
up not where we left off, because we talked I
think about caterpillars being pests at the end, or considered pests,
but they're not really. Yeah, we should pick up after
the caterpillar emerges from its chrysalis because we're talking specifically
(02:17):
about butterflies. So it's the chrysalis, not a cocoon that
it metamorphosizes within, and once it emerges, it is a
beautiful creature that resembles the caterpillar that it was almost
not at all. But it's the same exact creature. It's
got the same mind, it can remember smells and all that.
But whereas the caterpillar was built for eating, I think
(02:39):
we said it in the last episode too, the butterfly
is built for sex, sex, sex.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah, they're built for reproducing. Should we talk, I mean,
should we go back in time just a little bit
and talk about the fact that, like the distinction between
mals and butterflies and stuff like that. Sure, well, what's
the deal, wasn't it aren't moths and butterflies basically mostly
(03:06):
the same except moths are they do their sex at
night and butterflies do their sex in the day.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, I mean, there's not many distinctions between them other
than like the obvious ones. But that's the biggest one.
And the reason why butterflies are diurnal and moths are
nocturnal is because all butterflies, I think, what is there
like fifteen twenty thousand species.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Of butterflies, A lot of them.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, all of them are descended from moths, and these
were just moths that started to do their thing in
the daytime rather than the nighttime, and over time they
evolve to fit in in the daytime rather than the nighttime,
which is how moths evolved. So a moth's camouflage is
meant to blend in with like a tree where it's
(03:52):
sleeping during the day, whereas a butterfly is bright colored
because it's out in the daytime and it needs to
blend in with the big, color full flowers that it
likes to hang out on.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Do you know why I'm meant to look this up
and didn't. Why then a moth is so attracted to light.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
I saw that they think that it is attracted to
the moon for navigation. Oh okay, and that butterflies aren't
attracted to light because they don't navigate by the moon.
They lost that ability or that need.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Well, butterflies navigate by the sun. That's one of the
one of my amazing facts about butterflies.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, but then that's weird that they don't fly to light,
but they are not attracted to flames or light bulbs.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah, Oh well maybe they know sun is death.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, whereas the moon is nice and cool.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Should we talk about their bodies a little bit, because
that's where we like to start off usually with our
insect casts.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
One more thing, let's talk about where the word butterfly
came from.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Eh, where to come from?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Oh well, it's very Old English and it means butter
and fly, right, No real mystery there. Yeah, but the
reason they think there's two reasons why they are named
butterflies in the Old English. And they think it's either
because some of them are a pale yellow in color,
so they resemble butter. We can pretty much discard that one.
(05:11):
The other one is that there was a folk belief
that they stole butter, that they were just kind of
some sort of supernatural spirit in a butterfly form to
come and steal your milk in your butter. And there's
evidence of that in other nearby languages. I think the
Germans called butterflies milk.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Thieves and butterfairy almost.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yes, and then the Dutch and the Germans have a
word for butterfly that means butter witch. So that's probably
why butterflies are called that, because they used to think
that they stole butter.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Well, you know who it was the whole time, it
was Grandpa night eating.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, he could get one cc of blood through those arteries.
They were so clogged he was he was on ambient.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Does it does it say when the name more for
my wife into flutterfly.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
They actually used to think or something like, it's a
pretty strange idea that they are called butterflies rather than flutterbys,
because that makes more sense. So Emily's kind of taking
it in a much smarter direction. But it's interesting. She
probably just doesn't know the fact that they're actually witches
in disguise who are out to steal butter and milk.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yeah, she's always she still calls them fltterflies.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Just does she call spaghetti pasquetti?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
No? No, just flutterflies. Can we talk about their their
bodies now?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yes? Yes, thank you for indulging me. I feel so indulged.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Sure. So, like we mentioned, the head, the thorax, and
the abdomen of the butterfly will look a lot like
a caterpillar in some ways if you hold them up
next to each other, and that's about it. For one,
a butterfly can see a lot better than a caterpillar.
Can I get the idea that it still doesn't have like,
(06:59):
you know, like great vision. But caterpillars, remember, we're essentially blind.
Butterflies at least have these compound eyes and they can
detect color. And I think we said the caterpillar could
only see black and white. They can detect movement as well.
But when it comes to the star of the show,
as far as butterfly parts go, it's those antennae.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Well, hold on, before we move on, I've got one
about the eyes too. You know, the monarch butterfly like
basically the quintessential butterfly. Sure, they have twelve thousand eyes,
both compound and simple, and they go basically all the
way around their head.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
It's a lot of eyes.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
They can see into your soul.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
And that's why they Maybe that's why they're so great,
migrating every year and such large numbers.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Possibly, I think we talked about in our animal Migration episode.
We talked about monarch butterfly migration, and I think we
said one of the reasons why they're able to make
it from eastern Canada all the way down to northwest
Mexico is because they are they navigate using UV they
see in the UV.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, it's that it's that sun. And that's kind of
brings me back around to antennae. These things are amazing.
They they get their sense of direction from the position
of the sun, so they are literally navigating by the
position of the sun. The antennae also act as light receptors,
(08:25):
obviously to tract the sun. They're highly attuned to odors.
Those antenna are great smellers. They sense pheromones during times
of mating, and they can even sense these antennae the
beat of wings of butterflies of the same species.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
During amazing, just the antennae, just the antennae. Well, how
about the labial palps.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Well, yeah, those are if you if you look at
a close up of a butterfly, and they can take
kind of different positions, but usually I've seen them they
look like kind of little hairy tusks coming out.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Coming out of what chuck coming out of.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Their their head well near the mouth parts.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeaping thing. Okay, it's now officially a Tracy Wilson article.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
So they apparently are like this is food. This isn't food.
This is food, but they don't eat with the labial palps.
It's just a way of sensing food. What they eat
with is their proboscis and that's the long kind of
tongue like appendage that they suck nectar with.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
That's right, I got one more thing on the labial palps.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
So, oh okay.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
They they've kind of surmised that it detects food. That
the function was is fairly unknown, but I think they've
learned I'm not sure how recently that they can those
labial palps detect CO two in the air. Oh, neat
as well, and they think that might be the main function.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Oh that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Who knows?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
So instead of seeing red or green, they have the
labial palps that detect I guess two. That was a
reference to a reality episode.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yeah, yeah, So what part did you move to?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I moved on to their proboscis.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Oh, everyone loves a good prescos and the uh, the
butterfly proboscos is interesting because when the butterfly comes out,
and we'll talk about this morn in a second, it's
almost like it should have a label that says some
assembly required. Yeah, because they got to do some stuff
before they can really do their butterfly thing. And one
of those things is literally almost like screwing together their proscis.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Mm hmm. Yeah, they have two parts of their proboscis
that they have to connect in order to start eating.
So that's one of the first things that they do
when they e close from their chrysalis.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
E close. It's a great name.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Now, it sounds like Apple has trademarked it or something.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
And we'll talk more about the proboscos as we go,
but we do need to mention their legs. If you remember,
the caterpillars have six real legs and then a bunch
of pro legs. The butterfly says, I don't need those
pro legs anymore because I'm flying basically, but I've still
got those six legs. I've got a set of four legs,
some middle legs and some hind legs. And these things
(11:13):
are pretty they're more than just legs as well, because
they will land on something and they're looking for dissolving
sugars basically to eat, and they're looking for that with
their legs.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yeah. And also you'll probably see fairly commonly that there
are some butterfly species that only have two pairs of legs,
and that's not true, they actually have six, but one
pair is basically shriveled almost to nothingness.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
And by the way, I should clear up when I
say their legs are looking for dissolving sugars, they're not
doing it by feel like they are taste organs in
their feet.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah, they can taste through all sorts of different organs.
It's pretty cool. They apparently when they're they step in
like some dissolving sugar, their proboscis uncoils involuntarily and it
just starts sipping nectar immediately. Oh man, so you better
hope that your your legs are finely attuned to sugar
(12:09):
and you don't accidentally suck up some really gross stuff. Yeah,
you know, like, oh it was puss right.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Oh my god, Oh, the worst word. It's the worst.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
It's pretty bad and hygenic utensil.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Though, Like, what are the odds that one of the
grossest things has the grossest word.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I don't know. I wonder if that was intentional?
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, like, what is that?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Ugh?
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Puss?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Right?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Does that sound gross enough? Sure, let's go with it.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
We please stop talking about puss.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Sure, Webster the wings, We're going to talk about a lot.
We did a whole episode on the iridescence of butterfly wings.
So we're not going to really get into it here,
but if you want to learn about iridescence, it's very
complex and complicated and deserved its own episode many years ago.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yeah, but the opshot is the structure of the scales.
They're transparent, multi layered, and they reflect and amplify light
multiple times. That was a really cool episode if I
remember correctly.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
It was, and it was a tough one if I
remember to like absorb.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yes, but we did such a great job of it.
I would like to say we probably just knocked it
out of the park.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Really, I think so too. But the butterfly wings are
made of it's transparents called kiten. If you've heard of
kitenre you're probably just alive on the earth because it
is one of the most abundant polysaccharides in nature. It's
I think the second most abundant. It's all over the place.
(13:40):
Their wings are made of that kitan, and they have
those sort of vein like structures that you can if
you look at their wings closely. Don't touch them though,
please no, we talked about that in that episode. But
they have those four wings that are obviously toward the
front and they are basically triangular, and then the hind
wings toward the button and they kind of look like
(14:01):
little seashells.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yes, and they're like you said, don't touch them. They're very,
very delicate, and those veins are species specific, so that's
one of the ways that they use to recognize one
another when they're mating as well.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, and I think butterflies cannot repair their wings, isn't
that correct?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yes, they have no means of doing that. They have
no car shield for wings.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
But I don't think it kills them. But if a
butterfly can't fly, that's probably ultimately a death sentence, right.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
That's my guess. It would make them easy prey at
the very least.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, I think that's kind of the deal. When they
say a butterfly will die if you touch their wings, Yes,
it will die quicker.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
There's something that a butterfly that's recently e closed and
a baby that's just been born have in common. Do
you know what it is?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Mmm? Maybe, but go ahead.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
They both poop out in a meconium.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Oh sure, a human baby yeah, yeah, yeah, maconium. Is
that that first poop that they take and in this case,
the butterfly is pooping what it last eight as a caterpillar.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
That's so cool.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
It is really cool.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
It's usually red bright red, almost looks like blood. But
the butterfly poops that out. That's one of the first
things it does. It has to clean off all of
its organs, its feet to make sure it's sugar finding
not puss finding, clean off its antennas, put its proboscis
together again, let its wings dry out. I saw, and
(15:31):
I don't think we mentioned in the Caterpillar episode that
in its last in star it has wings already. They're
just folded up under its skin that they develop even
further in the chrysalis. But when they're when they come out,
they're soaking wet because the butterfly was goo not too
long ago, and they have to spread them out and
(15:52):
let them dry in the sun before they can fly.
So they're doing all of this like self care, basically
a morning at the spa after they're born.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, but they can't just like flop their wings open immediately.
They actually have to pump them up, almost like an
air pump inflating a raft or something, or some high stops, yeah,
or some oh man, remember those. That's so funny. What
a scam.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
That was a scam, right, I'm quite sure you could
break your ankle in that just as easily as any
other shoe. Sure.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yeah, it may give you like a little tighter fit
or something. I don't know about that.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And for people that are our younger or younger listeners,
if you don't know who Milli Vanilli was or pump
up basketball shoes, there were I think Rebock.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Right, pretty sure it was Rebock.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Had basketball shoes that on the tongue had a little
basketball that was a little pump, and you would put
on your shoes, tie them up, and then press that
pump a bunch of times, and it would fill some
cavities with air, I guess, and make your shoes tighter.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yeah, especially around your ankle. It was meant to give
you extra ankle support so you could daunt easier, even
though you've never donked in your life.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
That's right. But they had Spudweb repping them, so oh yeah, yeah,
I think he. I think he was one of their
pitch guys for a little while. Okay, cool, but anyway,
the butterfly Wait.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Wait, should we explain who spud web.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
He was a diminutive NBA player for the hostod Land
to get his autograph one time. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
They pump their wings out, but not with air. There's
a fluid that they pump through these those two black
veins we were talking about, and just sort of inflate
them out, and like you said, they just get all
cleaned up and ready to fly.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yes, And then once they're all ready, they start flying
and they realize very quickly, up it's not a very
good day to fly. And I say, we take a
break and come back and explain just what in the
holy heck I'm talking about?
Speaker 1 (18:10):
All right, what in the holy heck are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Oh well, let me explain, Chuck. It turns out that butterflies,
while being pretty hardy individuals, at least as far as
insects are concerned, on that level, they're also very delicate,
like we talked about with their wings, and even beyond
their wings, getting like a rain drop driving through it,
that can happen, or say like strong wind tattering it.
(18:34):
That's a big problem for a butterfly. Just the temperature,
the ambient temperature has a tremendous effect on them. Not
just because they're ectotherms, meaning they're like a lizard. They
rely on the ambient temperature to warm themselves or cool
themselves off. Their muscles just simply will not function when
it drops below a certain temperature.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yeah, I think Tracy points out they work best when
their internal temperature is about eighty two fahrenheit twenty eight celsius.
And you know, they use these wings for flying, which
is great, but you might think like, oh, it's no
big deal if it's cold, they just kind of hunker down.
But they also use these wings to do all kinds
of like cool things, like, namely to scare away predators.
(19:20):
They can do all sorts of like they can make
eyes where it looks like a scary face, kind of
like their little caterpillar former selves can look like snakes.
They can flash these bright colors that a lot of
times say get away predator. And if they can't move
their wings, it's not just that they can't fly, but
they can't defend themselves or disguise themselves. So it means
(19:41):
that when it's cold outside, or when it's two windy
or rainy or something, then they're way more vulnerable to
prey for sure, or as prey.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Right but even prey could probably get them. That's how
vulnerable they are, so for sure. So you'll often see
like butterflies is kind of bask in the sun. I've
always wondered what they're doing, Like they just seem like
they're they don't know what to do next. That's how
it's always struck me. For some reason, they're thinking of
their next move, but in reality, they're just sitting there
(20:12):
getting warmed up by the sun so they can fly
to another spot. And if you stop and think about it,
the next time you see a butterfly basking in the sun,
I'll bet it's below eighty degrees out and the butterflies
having to warm itself so it can fly on to
the next flower to eat or rest or whatever.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, that's a good point. They do take shelter at
night when it gets chilly. That's why you don't see
butterflies flying around at night mainly. And like you said,
they're what are daytime dwellers called diurnal diurnal day urinal? Yeah,
day ernal? Is that how you remember it?
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Now? It is?
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Okay, you do remember it. That's how I need to
remember it, right, But yeah, they bass those wings, they'll
sit on rocks they shelter at night sometimes that they
will actually do like a kind of like human shiver
to warm up. They can kind of shake their butterfly
wings to get their muscles warmed up to fly. They
(21:13):
just can't go out cold. They gotta do a little
warm up first.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
It's like that knee hike thing. Live their knees really
really high, like in place a bunch of times.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, that soccer players do. Yeah, like that ted Lasso guy.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Right, then there's a name for that. But don't bother
emailing us with it. We can figure it out ourselves.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
They also can use those wings as little reflectors, like
you know how in the nineteen fifties and sixties people
would sit out in the sun with those reflectors under
their neck to reflect sun back on their faces. They
can use their wings to do that to their body
and warm it.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Up, right, which is pretty cool. They can also they
can also keep the sun from warming them up when
it's too hot out. They'll fold their wings together and
just present like the edge, the outer edge of their
wings to the sun, so there's much less surface area.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And they, like
you said, when you see them sitting they're probably not
sitting for long. They're probably sitting just so they can
get it going to fly again very shortly.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Exactly so, even though they're sitting there, warming themselves up
to move from flower to flower even and that's typically
what you see. There's a lot of species I see
at least two hundred that migrate over very long distances,
and monarchs are the ones that they're like the money,
the money butterfly that everybody knows about. But one of
(22:40):
the reasons why is because they migrate so far. Again,
they migrate from eastern Canada to northwest Mexico. It takes
eight months, and not a single butterfly that starts that
journey is alive at the end. So it's like you
look at the butterfly. By the way, the butterfly flock
or a group of butterflies is called the kaleidoscope. M
(23:03):
I love that also, that's the official one. They're also
called flutter, shimmer, and rainbow of butterflies.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Okay, a flutter of butterflies, yep.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
But you look at the kaleidoscope of butterflies, it's like
a single organism in each individual butterfly that lives and
dies and reproduces, not necessarily in that order, as kind
of like cells that function and make up the larger hole.
But it's really a bunch of individual butterflies flying together
but migrating as a whole down from eastern Canada to
(23:33):
northwest Mexico.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, and I guess since we're there, there was a
big deforestation, illegal deforestation, logging operation in Mexico at the
Butterfly Biosphere Reserve in twenty fifteen and they got like
I can't remember, like thirty or forty acres of land
just cut down before anyone knew what was going on.
(23:57):
And since then, and we can't get into it here
because it's really complex, but they have this very involved
plan that they've been enacting since then of reforestation, including
something called assisted migration that I don't fully understand yet,
but I'm going to look into it more.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
They just drive slowly by some butterflies and swipe them
into the car and drive them halfway.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Well, things are better now, but there were a billion
butterflies in that migration in nineteen ninety six, and in
I think twenty sixteen that was down to thirty five
million from a billion, and I think has since gone
up due to these efforts.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
But that's good.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, then you know, butterflies, if you take down where
they're trying to get to, then they're going to die.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, and that's that Biosphere Reserve is a UNESCO World
Heritage Site and you can go visit it. But apparently
when the number of butterflies that show up are in
the billions, the branches that they're sitting on bend under
the weight of butterflies, that's how many butterflies there are
are sometimes. But yes, it's very problematic that there's fewer
(25:04):
and fewer. I'm glad to hear that it's kind of
bounced back a little bit, but they're still under I
don't know if they're endangered or just critical right now,
but there's there's something to keep an eye on, as
we'll see, because they're an indicator species.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
They are, and they're also pollinators. They're not, you know,
the best pollinators, but they're pretty good. They're not like bees.
I mean, bees were made to pollinate. They wear shirts
that they do, they wear be shirts. But the some butterflies,
some butterflies don't spread pollen at all. They just love
(25:40):
that nectar. But generally butterflies are looked at as polleners,
and they have that proboscis. Like you said, that's just
it's made for diving deep into those flowers and getting
all that sweet stuff. But butterflies have lots of dietary needs.
They can't just get by on that sweet, sweet sugar.
They need minerals and stuff, and they get this in
(26:02):
a variety of interesting ways.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Right, Yeah, one is puddles. They'll just descend on a
puddle that's bare dirt. I don't think asphalt would work,
so yeah, it's kind of gross to think about. But
the minerals from the dirt and the soil leach into
the puddle, and the butterflies suck up those minerals through
the puddle, and apparently if there's not enough minerals for
(26:24):
their liking, they'll actually flutter off real quick and then
come back to the puddle, and just that little butterfly
movement is enough disturbance of the water to bring some
extra minerals to the surface of the puddle for them
to drink and to create a hurricane in Belize.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Right, if there's no water, it's pretty gross. If it
gets pretty bad, they will resort to puking onto the
soil and then drinking that mineral puke.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I took it more as spit.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
One man's other man's that's right.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
But yeah, they need the minerals, the nutrients, and it's
just not enough for the nectar.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah, exactly. They've done some studies because they'll they'll eat fruit.
They'll eat rotten fruit on the ground, or they will
get on a piece of fruit. They will stomp on
it with their little feet ye to try and tenderize
it a little bit, and then jab it with that
proboscis and drink it up. And they've done studies that
have found that the fruit eaters live longer and are
(27:30):
better at reproducing in studies because they I think it
was the monarchs. Even they fed them either mash banana
or sugar, and the ones that ate the mash banana
laid almost two times as many eggs, and those eggs
were bigger and like more robust and vital as well.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, I also read that they tend to be easier
going in social situations and are more well liked by
their peers.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
The fruit. Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
So there's a couple other places that they can get
nutrients and minerals, dung, and urine. Butterflies are not above that,
especially if they need it really badly. But the when
they're getting it from a puddle, it's called puddling. There's
just so many great words around butterflies. And there's a
specific word for butterflies pollinating plants. It's called psychophily, like psychophillly,
(28:27):
but with one l okay. Specifically, butterflies pollinating plants is psychophily.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
I thought you would. I found that and I was like,
fuck's gonna love this.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
The sexy stuff you mentioned. They you know, butterflies love
to try and reproduce, and they reproduce like a lot
of animals. They they join themselves. They join end to
end at the abdomen. I think the male has a
like clasps clasps down on the female to make sure
(28:58):
they stay together. And there is sperm from the male
that is eventually going to fertilize the eggs of a female.
But not like you would think, it's pretty remarkable because
what they do is they well, first of all, they
have to recognize each other, like I said, using those antennae,
they recognize themselves as the same species or whatever. And
(29:20):
through their pheromones as well, which is also the antennae,
and then the male delivers a spermatophore, so it's like, hey,
I don't just have sperm for you. I've packaged it
up in a little package for you, and it's got
all these other minerals and nutrients that you love that
will help you in this fertilization process. And they will
(29:41):
take extra time to get an extra good spermatophore package
ready to be an extra attractive mate. The good ones
will sure.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
So I guess the female butterflies when they fertilize their eggs,
they use the the last sperm that was inserted to them,
the last spermatophor package.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
So there are some species where the male will basically
close up shop after he's inserted a spermataphor with kind
of like a sticky substance that prevents more sperm from
going in. So his sperm is the most recent sperm.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Yeah, that's not very cool at all. But I guess
that guy's also like, you know what am I doing
giving you my spermataphor if you're just gonna use the
latest spermataphor that you got.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Exactly I went to a lot of trouble combining the spermatophoor.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yeah, like, look at this stuff. Look at all these minerals.
I also saw that some of the males in some
species will spray them with an off putting scent. Huh,
so no other butterflies will want them. There are mating
dances that they'll do, and they, you know, when the
female gets this spermataphor, they put it in their bursa
(30:57):
and then they wait until they're ready to lay their eggs.
And they actually lay the eggs first and then use
the sperm to fertilize them once they have laid the eggs,
which is also I think pretty unusual in the insect kingdom.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Right, I don't know. For some reason, I had the
impression that they were fertilizing each egg as they were
coming out, kind of like a pez dispenser. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Yeah, that's what I mean though, But they're not, like
they're not fertilized in the body.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
I see what you're saying. They're fertilized externally.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yeah, yeah, sure, that's the word.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
One other thing you talked about terrible smells. I turned
up that there some pheromones are pleasant smelling to humans. Specifically,
let me tell you about the green vein white butterfly.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Let's hear it.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
It puts together lemon oil for all intents and purposes.
It has the same chemical composition as lemon oil, but
it's the pheromone it produces to attract a mate. And
I got to tell you, lemon oil is a pretty
great smell. It would attract me too.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
So if you ever smell a great vein white during
mating season, you're gonna smell some lemon oil.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
The gestation periods about three days, and they lay anywhere
from ten to three hundred eggs in clusters over a
two to four week period.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Oh wow, it's that long.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah, it can't. Yeah, two to four weeks and these eggs,
you know, they lay that many because it's tough for
these eggs to survive into adulthood. They got to be
the temperature's got to be just right, humidity's got to
be just right. They can rot very easily if it's
too wet. If it's not wet enough, they're going to
dry out. And then of course there's all those predators
(32:39):
that are just dying to eat those butterfly eggs.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
They need to find the goldilock zone with the humidity
for the eggs.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
That's right, they do.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
So they also make sure that they put the eggs
on their baby's favorite food, which is a certain kind
of plant. Their butterflies are very frequently indiscriminate pollinators. They
just go from plant to plant. But there are also
plenty of species that are very plant specific, and those
are the ones where they will not only eat that
plant while they're caterpillars, they were probably born on that
(33:10):
same plant as well.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
We used to have a butterfly bush in our yard
that was those things get really big and out of control,
kind of in a we have sort of a wild
garden anyway. It's not like a you know, super manicure
like English type garden. It's kind of a crazy, fun garden.
So it fit in the garden and we had tons
and tons of butterflies. But it went away. And I
(33:32):
don't know if it was because I think some people,
well I think it could be an invasive species, and
a lot of people say, like they'll play it the
butterfly bush, but we had one for a while but
don't now, so Emily may have taken it down for
that reason.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
So the reason it's considered invasive and harmful the butterflies
is it produces tons of nectar, but it has no
value in supporting eggs or the life cycle of it
other than nectar for adults, And so it's a distract
from native plants that do provide not just nectar but
also shelter and a place to lay their eggs. So
(34:07):
it actually disrupts the life cycle of local butterflies. Even
though it's a butterfly bush and they love it, it's
actually bad for them. So I have to go cut
down mine after this.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Even if you have a lot of those natives nearby,
like as a whole, it's still bad, yes.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Because it's a distraction because it's so chuck full of
nectar that they go to that one instead and just
die off.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Well, some distractions are okay, right, like television.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Sure, you could put a TV with an extension cord
out in your butterfly garden. That's not going to harm them.
If you have a butterfly bush, you have to chop
it down. I command you, all right.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
They're really pretty though, and it's fun to see other butterflies,
But yeah, I get you.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
In the But wait until you've planted other plants, which
we'll talk about, and then you can chop down your
butterfly bush.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
All right, Well, let's take a break or second break,
and we'll talk a little bit more about what's going
on with a butterf population and the butterfly gardens right
after this. Okay, Well, we talked already about the monarchs
(35:30):
and how they had been hit hard from the illegal
logging going on in Mexico in the mid twenty tens,
and in general, butterflies are doing okay, but there are
some you know, pesticides and things like that. I think
one of the other big reasons besides the logging for
that migration of the monarchs, I think pesticides has killed
(35:53):
a lot of milkweed, which I think the monarchs love.
So pesticides are a big threat. And it's not like
I'm just going to spray this one little part of
my garden, Like pesticides in your garden in one part
of your garden generally means it's in most parts of
your garden.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah, it travels very easily. But on top of that,
butterflies are extremely sensitive to pesticides. So I don't know
about herbicides, but definitely pesticides, So if you are going
to plan a butterfly garden, you want to use natural
pest defenses. But that's a big thing that's killing off
butterflies and bees too.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
And then also we talked about it in the last episode.
A lot of people think of caterpillars as pests. It's like, oh,
you ate some of them, I lettuce, I'm going to
kill all of you. That kills butterflies too. They never
make it to be adult butterflies, and you've just disrupted
generations of butterflies that could have been So when you
put all that together, humans have not been super good
(36:48):
for butterflies. Did you mention urbanization and roads too? Now
those are a problem. Like anytime we build somewhere, we
destroy plants, and those often are butterflies or that's a
butterfly habitat. And then the roads that we have, the
marginal land alongside of the roads are often like great
places for butterfly centric plants to grow. But that means
(37:12):
that the butterflies are very close to cars that are
going seventy eighty miles an hour, which is never good
for the butterfly when they come in contact with them. So, yeah,
like I was saying, humans have been kind of bad
for butterflies, but fortunately we're starting to wake up and
see the value in butterflies goes beyond like let's put
that thing on a stamp, Like, there's there's more value
(37:33):
to the butterfly than just its esthetic beauty. But that
makes it plenty valuable in and of itself.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
I wonder if butterflies and other insects would ever if
natural selection would be such that they would learn to
fly higher than the height of an average car.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Sure, I could see that, but then they run into
semis and they're like, it's going to take millions more
years to get higher than a semi.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Maybe they'll figure out how to fly under cars very quickly.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Okay, that collecting butterflies is, believe it or not, another
thing that has hit the butterfly population. Butterfly collecting butterflies
is a thing. Hunting butterflies and putting them behind glass
in your office is a thing that some people are
really into. And I don't know a lot about that,
(38:28):
but I do know that that there are certain species
that are endangered, and part of the problem is over collecting.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah, and the more rare a butterfly species gets, the
more desirable it is for collectors, and the more collecting
harms that population because it's so small. So or a burros,
but the worst kind.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yeah, and I imagine we'll hear from some collectors who
who can tell us that there are responsible ways of
doing this. I really don't know enough about it to
speak to it, but I'm not gonna click butterflies, That's
all I'm gonna say.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, I wonder if it's one of those things like ivory,
where it's like, Okay, this happened, this is done, Like
these things are are out there and we're not just
gonna throw them away. That's an even bigger waste. So
like antique ivory or antique taxidermy, butterflies are legal, but
anything new is illegal. I wonder if it's treated like
(39:24):
that or what. But I get the impression that butterflies
don't have that much legal protection. I think they do
on paper, but it's very rarely enforced.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Yeah. I guess if you find one in the ground
or something that's uh, you know that for your collection.
Sure not sunning on a rock, but you know dead right.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Sure it just fell over of old age.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Uh, should we talk about butterfly gardens here at the end.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yeah, because one of the things people are doing or saying, like, hey, butterflies,
we got to save these butterflies. If we don't, things
are gonna go pear shaped even more. And so people
are starting to plant butterfly gardens.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Yeah, because I think you said they're a big indicator
of like, if butterflies are dying off all around you,
that's a big indicator of how your local ecosystem is doing,
in large part.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
The canary and the coal mine.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah, exactly. And butterfly gardens are beautiful and it doesn't
take a lot. You need some plants, and you're gonna
want plants. Well, you're gonna want to find out what
kind of butterflies you have around you.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
That's a big one.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
You can look with your eyeballs and then cross reference,
or you can just look it up on the internet,
and then you want to find out what kind of
plants those butterflies love that are native to your area
and plant those.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Chuck. When I was researching this, all I wanted to
do was be done with this episode so I can
go garden.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Oh. I love that Emily's gardening. I'm looking at it
right now, is gardening outside?
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Well, pound on your window and tell her I'm jealous
of her.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
We got I put it on my Instagram. I don't
know if you saw it, but I saw a huge,
well it's not that big, but a hornet's nest in
our backyard yesterday. That is the coolest, most beautiful thing.
I'm kind of tucked in a magnolia branch about only
four feet off the ground. Yeah, And I'm glad I
saw it because I was about to go do some
(41:12):
trimming of my box woods right behind it in a
few days and I would have bumped right into that thing.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
So, oh boy.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Now we're just going to steer clear of it until
it is out of season and then hopefully try and
preserve it. But hornets ness are so cool looking, and
I just love that we have one back there. We
got a crazy backyard full of all kinds of critters.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Does it look like a mummy's head? Sometimes it looks.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
It looks like a sort of a mummy's head, But
if it was an alien mummy, because it's like top heavy,
and it looks like it has a little mouth at
the bottom. You know, their little door. Yeah, I'll send
you a picture, it's cool.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Yeah, or I can just go on Instagram like everybody else.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Now you get text privies.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Thanks man.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
What else about the butterfly guarden? You need water, right, Yeah?
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Remember they like to drink minerals from puddles, So if
you have a little bit of water dripping that forms
a puddle in the soil, that's definitely gonna help them.
You want rocks for them to sun on. A big one, Chuck,
is you want to use native plants. I know you
and Emily are like big into that, and I feel
like people, including myself, are really waking up to just
(42:19):
how bad for the local ecosystem like non native plants are,
and to use native plants whenever you can when you're
building a butterfly garden. It's crucial because even plants within
the same species can be harmful to butterflies. Yeah, and
I have an example if you'll allow me. Sure, So,
(42:39):
butterflies in Florida and Georgia in the southeast in general,
I think, are very very keen on what's called butterfly weed.
It's what monarchs love. It's that very tiny, multi flowered,
orange flowered weed. It's a type of milk weed. Okay, yeah,
that's native. There's another kind of milkweed called tropical milk
(43:02):
weed that does just fine in Florida and Georgia in
the southeast too, but it's not native. And the problem
with putting that in your butterfly garden into the Southeast
is that it blooms so late into the season that
butterflies will keep reproducing and entire parts of the population
will freeze to death because they've gone beyond their natural
(43:25):
reproductive window. And then furthermore, when the temperature drops a
little bit, they're more susceptible to a specific kind of
protozoan parasite called ot or oe I. Can't remember that
they wouldn't otherwise be if they were just on the
native milkweed rather than the tropical milkweed. So like, that's
how much attention you really should be paying to your
(43:47):
butterfly garden, because you can inadvertently harm them while you're
doing something you think is good for them, like putting
a butterfly bush out there. Everybody would think, like, that's great,
I'm gonna put a butterfly bush out and I can
pretty much call myself Gandhi from here on out the butterflies.
But it turns out you're harming them. So it's definitely
something that you need to take some research for. But
it's the kind of research that it's like an invitation
(44:10):
to go, like immerse yourself in the natural world in
all of the best ways.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Yeah. Boy, that butterfly weed is beautiful.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Yes it is, and it's native to Georgia. So you
just plan it all you.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Like, you know what, I'm gonna go tell Emily like, oh,
this butterfly milkweed and shes gonna be like it's right
behind you, coming right.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
But it's not only a food source, it's a it's
like a place where monarchs lay their eggs. So you
will have butterflies like living in your garden. I mean
they'll fly to Mexico eventually, but they'll hang out there
for a while. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
I mean that's the cool thing about the butterfly garden too.
If you if you do it right, then you're you're
gonna have butterflies in your yard. And not only that,
but butterflies are gonna like word gets around and it'll
become a place for butterflies. It'll become like a haven
for butterflies, and they don't. They don't generally, I mean
the ones who migrate migrate. But other than that, you
(45:01):
could have you could have butterflies families living their whole
life back there in your backyard.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Yeah. And speaking of backyards, I've got a backyard. A
lower part of my backyard is kind of wild. I
keep it wild, like I don't know it very often,
and there's lots of weeds and like little clovers and
stuff growing. So I've left it there for the beds,
the birds and the bees and all that and the butterflies.
But I'm going full on, man, I'm going to let
Oh yes, it's gonna be all butterflies, like up to
(45:27):
your hips butterfly stuff. I cannot wait to go plan it.
It's I'm really looking forward to it because it's really
goes right up to the edge of some woods too,
so it's gonna be amazing.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Yeah, there's something we really love like leading green spaces
and making it an invitation for animals, you know, like
I got my camp up there in North Georgia, and
like all of North Georgia is just being torn down
for neighborhoods and and or and you know, if you're
a hunter. Let's fine that that's your thing. I'm not
(46:00):
into it. And we love that we have this acreage
where we're just like, tell your dear buddies this to
come to our land setup shop here. No one will
be shooting you, and spread the word everybody. We have.
We have a safe space for all you critters out here.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Yes, except for humans, because it's also a most dangerous
game type setup. You got going there?
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Huh well sure the weekends.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Right. Let's see one more thing about butterflies. There is
an amazing fact that I think we can end on.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
How about that, Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
They're frequently cited as inspiring the discovery of the RH
blood factor, which is a type of subtype of blood types,
and it actually cured what's known as Rhese's hemolytic disease,
which is where a baby has a positive RH blood
type and is born from a mother with a negative
RH blood type and its immune system starts attacking its blood.
(46:56):
Not good, but the discover of the R blood factor.
His name is Sir Cyril Clark, and he was big
time in the butterflies, and he was inspired by the
butterfly's ability to mimic other butterflies genetically, that they had
these what are called super genes, these big clusters of
genes that all produce this mimicry, and that we're refined
(47:17):
by smaller genes over time. And he was like, I
wonder if that has to do with blood types and diseases,
and in fact, it was Oh, wow, yeah, so butterflies,
super useful, super beautiful. Go cut down your butterfly bush today. Amazing,
Chuck said, amazing. So that means it's time for listener
mail everybody.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
I'm gonna call this our influence on Spotify. Perhaps, Hey, guys,
I was wondering, wondering if you were aware of your
potential impact on Spotify searches. On the Milli Vanilli episode,
Josh mentioned the song owner of a Lonely Heart by
Yes being the best song of the eighties, And in
my head, I'm like, I'm not sure what that song
is is, but I said it out loud and immediately
(48:03):
the chorus popped into my head. So I go over
to listen to it later on Spotify. I see a
ton of covers for it, and I see Millie Vanilli
is also in the search results, which was going to
be my next search. So I think you guys may
have had enough people searching Owner of a Lonely Heart
and Millie Vanilly close together so that the algorithm associated
(48:24):
those two. That's awesome because other than the time period,
it's not similar music.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
You know, No, I would say not.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
Maybe do a test to mention two unrelated songs for
something to see what happens. Oh boy, should we try it?
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Yeah, let's mix Sabbath and you pick the other one.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Okay, So Black Sabbath, you name a song specifically, Warpigs. Okay, Warpigs. Hey, everybody,
if you haven't heard Warpigs, you should go search it
on Spotify. Give it a listen. It's a great song.
And while you're at it, I don't know if you've
ever heard Barry Manilow's Chuck.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
I was going to suggest Barry Manilo I had it.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Well, I had a fifty to fifty chance there. I
don't know if you've ever heard the Barry Manilo song
even Now, but it's a classic Barry Manilo song. And
everyone should just go search those two on Spotify.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
So war Pigs and even Now by Black Sabbath and
Barry Manilo, Let's see what happens. Let's see what happened.
That was a great experiment. Who was that from?
Speaker 1 (49:27):
That was from Corey and I just want to give
Corey's to side notes. Saw you guys for the Andre
the Giant Live in Chicago episode. I also saw Josh's
Into the World Live in Chicago when you tour that
your short series. That was so great and I really
enjoy that. Josh walked by on his way in when
(49:47):
we were outside and patted my friend Sam on the shoulder,
and he's definitely mentioned that several times since then.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
So that's from Corey and you patted Sam on the shoulder.
I think that mean launch say.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Yeah, thanks for coming to see me, Sam and Corey.
It was a fun show. Actually, let's see if you
want to let us know how this experiment pans out.
Corey's experiment is what we're gonna call it Corey's choice.
How about that love it? No, let's call it a
Corey's song rather than Brian's song. Oh okay, okay, no,
(50:25):
Corey can wait perfect Okay.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
So oh no, but how about Corey's in Charge?
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Okay, that's a good one. That's perfect. We're gonna end
on that. If you want to let us know how
the Corey's in Charge experiment goes, but we'd love to
hear from you, you can send us an email to
Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, everyone, we want to announce that we have our
final three shows of the year on the books August
twelfth in Orlando, Florida, September sixth in Nashville, Tennessee, and
winding it up right here in Atlanta September ninth.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
They're going to be great, just great, great, great great.
So if you want to come see the Stuff you
Should Know greatness, the last of it for the year,
you can by going to stuff youshould Know dot com
and checking out our tour page or going to link
tree slash sysk. Either way you'll get links to tickets
and all the info you need. We'll see you starting
in August.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is Stuff you
Should Know, Part two of a one to two punch
of insect Goodness.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, Caterpillars hopefully you just listen to. If you did,
you might want to, because really, you know, without Caterpillar
there is no Butterfly episode. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I feel like they could stand on their own, Like,
I don't think you have to have listened to one
to understand what we're going to talk about here.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
No, no, no, but you know we're probably gonna say
when it comes time to talk about how the caterpillar
turns into a butterfly, just go back in time to
two days ago and listen to that one.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Right, we'll be like.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
And once again we have to thank HowStuffWorks dot Com
and our former and current colleague Tracy Wilson, as well
as our former colleague not current, Jennifer Horton, wrote a
fun piece about butterfly gardens that we're going to talk
about at the end. But I forgot about Jennifer. You
remember her?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Oh yeah, she was great. She wrote lots of great stuff.
She's a good person.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
So, Jennifer, I don't know if you're out there and listen,
but Hi, Hi.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
It's been a while, yeah, since like two thousand and
eight or nine, in a long while. Well, so we're
talking about butterflies, and we should probably kind of pick
up not where we left off, because we talked I
think about caterpillars being pests at the end, or considered pests,
but they're not really. Yeah, we should pick up after
the caterpillar emerges from its chrysalis because we're talking specifically
(02:17):
about butterflies. So it's the chrysalis, not a cocoon that
it metamorphosizes within, and once it emerges, it is a
beautiful creature that resembles the caterpillar that it was almost
not at all. But it's the same exact creature. It's
got the same mind, it can remember smells and all that.
But whereas the caterpillar was built for eating, I think
(02:39):
we said it in the last episode too, the butterfly
is built for sex, sex, sex.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah, they're built for reproducing. Should we talk, I mean,
should we go back in time just a little bit
and talk about the fact that, like the distinction between
mals and butterflies and stuff like that. Sure, well, what's
the deal, wasn't it aren't moths and butterflies basically mostly
(03:06):
the same except moths are they do their sex at
night and butterflies do their sex in the day.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, I mean, there's not many distinctions between them other
than like the obvious ones. But that's the biggest one.
And the reason why butterflies are diurnal and moths are
nocturnal is because all butterflies, I think, what is there
like fifteen twenty thousand species.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Of butterflies, A lot of them.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, all of them are descended from moths, and these
were just moths that started to do their thing in
the daytime rather than the nighttime, and over time they
evolve to fit in in the daytime rather than the nighttime,
which is how moths evolved. So a moth's camouflage is
meant to blend in with like a tree where it's
(03:52):
sleeping during the day, whereas a butterfly is bright colored
because it's out in the daytime and it needs to
blend in with the big, color full flowers that it
likes to hang out on.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Do you know why I'm meant to look this up
and didn't. Why then a moth is so attracted to light.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
I saw that they think that it is attracted to
the moon for navigation. Oh okay, and that butterflies aren't
attracted to light because they don't navigate by the moon.
They lost that ability or that need.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Well, butterflies navigate by the sun. That's one of the
one of my amazing facts about butterflies.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, but then that's weird that they don't fly to light,
but they are not attracted to flames or light bulbs.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah, Oh well maybe they know sun is death.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, whereas the moon is nice and cool.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Should we talk about their bodies a little bit, because
that's where we like to start off usually with our
insect casts.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
One more thing, let's talk about where the word butterfly
came from.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Eh, where to come from?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Oh well, it's very Old English and it means butter
and fly, right, No real mystery there. Yeah, but the
reason they think there's two reasons why they are named
butterflies in the Old English. And they think it's either
because some of them are a pale yellow in color,
so they resemble butter. We can pretty much discard that one.
(05:11):
The other one is that there was a folk belief
that they stole butter, that they were just kind of
some sort of supernatural spirit in a butterfly form to
come and steal your milk in your butter. And there's
evidence of that in other nearby languages. I think the
Germans called butterflies milk.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Thieves and butterfairy almost.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yes, and then the Dutch and the Germans have a
word for butterfly that means butter witch. So that's probably
why butterflies are called that, because they used to think
that they stole butter.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Well, you know who it was the whole time, it
was Grandpa night eating.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, he could get one cc of blood through those arteries.
They were so clogged he was he was on ambient.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Does it does it say when the name more for
my wife into flutterfly.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
They actually used to think or something like, it's a
pretty strange idea that they are called butterflies rather than flutterbys,
because that makes more sense. So Emily's kind of taking
it in a much smarter direction. But it's interesting. She
probably just doesn't know the fact that they're actually witches
in disguise who are out to steal butter and milk.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yeah, she's always she still calls them fltterflies.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Just does she call spaghetti pasquetti?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
No? No, just flutterflies. Can we talk about their their
bodies now?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yes? Yes, thank you for indulging me. I feel so indulged.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Sure. So, like we mentioned, the head, the thorax, and
the abdomen of the butterfly will look a lot like
a caterpillar in some ways if you hold them up
next to each other, and that's about it. For one,
a butterfly can see a lot better than a caterpillar.
Can I get the idea that it still doesn't have like,
(06:59):
you know, like great vision. But caterpillars, remember, we're essentially blind.
Butterflies at least have these compound eyes and they can
detect color. And I think we said the caterpillar could
only see black and white. They can detect movement as well.
But when it comes to the star of the show,
as far as butterfly parts go, it's those antennae.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Well, hold on, before we move on, I've got one
about the eyes too. You know, the monarch butterfly like
basically the quintessential butterfly. Sure, they have twelve thousand eyes,
both compound and simple, and they go basically all the
way around their head.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
It's a lot of eyes.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
They can see into your soul.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
And that's why they Maybe that's why they're so great,
migrating every year and such large numbers.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Possibly, I think we talked about in our animal Migration episode.
We talked about monarch butterfly migration, and I think we
said one of the reasons why they're able to make
it from eastern Canada all the way down to northwest
Mexico is because they are they navigate using UV they
see in the UV.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, it's that it's that sun. And that's kind of
brings me back around to antennae. These things are amazing.
They they get their sense of direction from the position
of the sun, so they are literally navigating by the
position of the sun. The antennae also act as light receptors,
(08:25):
obviously to tract the sun. They're highly attuned to odors.
Those antenna are great smellers. They sense pheromones during times
of mating, and they can even sense these antennae the
beat of wings of butterflies of the same species.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
During amazing, just the antennae, just the antennae. Well, how
about the labial palps.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Well, yeah, those are if you if you look at
a close up of a butterfly, and they can take
kind of different positions, but usually I've seen them they
look like kind of little hairy tusks coming out.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Coming out of what chuck coming out of.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Their their head well near the mouth parts.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeaping thing. Okay, it's now officially a Tracy Wilson article.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
So they apparently are like this is food. This isn't food.
This is food, but they don't eat with the labial palps.
It's just a way of sensing food. What they eat
with is their proboscis and that's the long kind of
tongue like appendage that they suck nectar with.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
That's right, I got one more thing on the labial palps.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
So, oh okay.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
They they've kind of surmised that it detects food. That
the function was is fairly unknown, but I think they've
learned I'm not sure how recently that they can those
labial palps detect CO two in the air. Oh, neat
as well, and they think that might be the main function.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Oh that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Who knows?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
So instead of seeing red or green, they have the
labial palps that detect I guess two. That was a
reference to a reality episode.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yeah, yeah, So what part did you move to?
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I moved on to their proboscis.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Oh, everyone loves a good prescos and the uh, the
butterfly proboscos is interesting because when the butterfly comes out,
and we'll talk about this morn in a second, it's
almost like it should have a label that says some
assembly required. Yeah, because they got to do some stuff
before they can really do their butterfly thing. And one
of those things is literally almost like screwing together their proscis.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Mm hmm. Yeah, they have two parts of their proboscis
that they have to connect in order to start eating.
So that's one of the first things that they do
when they e close from their chrysalis.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
E close. It's a great name.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Now, it sounds like Apple has trademarked it or something.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
And we'll talk more about the proboscos as we go,
but we do need to mention their legs. If you remember,
the caterpillars have six real legs and then a bunch
of pro legs. The butterfly says, I don't need those
pro legs anymore because I'm flying basically, but I've still
got those six legs. I've got a set of four legs,
some middle legs and some hind legs. And these things
(11:13):
are pretty they're more than just legs as well, because
they will land on something and they're looking for dissolving
sugars basically to eat, and they're looking for that with
their legs.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yeah. And also you'll probably see fairly commonly that there
are some butterfly species that only have two pairs of legs,
and that's not true, they actually have six, but one
pair is basically shriveled almost to nothingness.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
And by the way, I should clear up when I
say their legs are looking for dissolving sugars, they're not
doing it by feel like they are taste organs in
their feet.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yeah, they can taste through all sorts of different organs.
It's pretty cool. They apparently when they're they step in
like some dissolving sugar, their proboscis uncoils involuntarily and it
just starts sipping nectar immediately. Oh man, so you better
hope that your your legs are finely attuned to sugar
(12:09):
and you don't accidentally suck up some really gross stuff. Yeah,
you know, like, oh it was puss right.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Oh my god, Oh, the worst word. It's the worst.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
It's pretty bad and hygenic utensil.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Though, Like, what are the odds that one of the
grossest things has the grossest word.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I don't know. I wonder if that was intentional?
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, like, what is that?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Ugh?
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Puss?
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Right?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Does that sound gross enough? Sure, let's go with it.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
We please stop talking about puss.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Sure, Webster the wings, We're going to talk about a lot.
We did a whole episode on the iridescence of butterfly wings.
So we're not going to really get into it here,
but if you want to learn about iridescence, it's very
complex and complicated and deserved its own episode many years ago.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yeah, but the opshot is the structure of the scales.
They're transparent, multi layered, and they reflect and amplify light
multiple times. That was a really cool episode if I
remember correctly.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
It was, and it was a tough one if I
remember to like absorb.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yes, but we did such a great job of it.
I would like to say we probably just knocked it
out of the park.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Really, I think so too. But the butterfly wings are
made of it's transparents called kiten. If you've heard of
kitenre you're probably just alive on the earth because it
is one of the most abundant polysaccharides in nature. It's
I think the second most abundant. It's all over the place.
(13:40):
Their wings are made of that kitan, and they have
those sort of vein like structures that you can if
you look at their wings closely. Don't touch them though,
please no, we talked about that in that episode. But
they have those four wings that are obviously toward the
front and they are basically triangular, and then the hind
wings toward the button and they kind of look like
(14:01):
little seashells.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yes, and they're like you said, don't touch them. They're very,
very delicate, and those veins are species specific, so that's
one of the ways that they use to recognize one
another when they're mating as well.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, and I think butterflies cannot repair their wings, isn't
that correct?
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yes, they have no means of doing that. They have
no car shield for wings.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
But I don't think it kills them. But if a
butterfly can't fly, that's probably ultimately a death sentence, right.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
That's my guess. It would make them easy prey at
the very least.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, I think that's kind of the deal. When they
say a butterfly will die if you touch their wings, Yes,
it will die quicker.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
There's something that a butterfly that's recently e closed and
a baby that's just been born have in common. Do
you know what it is?
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Mmm? Maybe, but go ahead.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
They both poop out in a meconium.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Oh sure, a human baby yeah, yeah, yeah, maconium. Is
that that first poop that they take and in this case,
the butterfly is pooping what it last eight as a caterpillar.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
That's so cool.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
It is really cool.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
It's usually red bright red, almost looks like blood. But
the butterfly poops that out. That's one of the first
things it does. It has to clean off all of
its organs, its feet to make sure it's sugar finding
not puss finding, clean off its antennas, put its proboscis
together again, let its wings dry out. I saw, and
(15:31):
I don't think we mentioned in the Caterpillar episode that
in its last in star it has wings already. They're
just folded up under its skin that they develop even
further in the chrysalis. But when they're when they come out,
they're soaking wet because the butterfly was goo not too
long ago, and they have to spread them out and
(15:52):
let them dry in the sun before they can fly.
So they're doing all of this like self care, basically
a morning at the spa after they're born.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, but they can't just like flop their wings open immediately.
They actually have to pump them up, almost like an
air pump inflating a raft or something, or some high stops, yeah,
or some oh man, remember those. That's so funny. What
a scam.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
That was a scam, right, I'm quite sure you could
break your ankle in that just as easily as any
other shoe. Sure.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yeah, it may give you like a little tighter fit
or something. I don't know about that.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And for people that are our younger or younger listeners,
if you don't know who Milli Vanilli was or pump
up basketball shoes, there were I think Rebock.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Right, pretty sure it was Rebock.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Had basketball shoes that on the tongue had a little
basketball that was a little pump, and you would put
on your shoes, tie them up, and then press that
pump a bunch of times, and it would fill some
cavities with air, I guess, and make your shoes tighter.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yeah, especially around your ankle. It was meant to give
you extra ankle support so you could daunt easier, even
though you've never donked in your life.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
That's right. But they had Spudweb repping them, so oh yeah, yeah,
I think he. I think he was one of their
pitch guys for a little while. Okay, cool, but anyway,
the butterfly Wait.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Wait, should we explain who spud web.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
He was a diminutive NBA player for the hostod Land
to get his autograph one time. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
They pump their wings out, but not with air. There's
a fluid that they pump through these those two black
veins we were talking about, and just sort of inflate
them out, and like you said, they just get all
cleaned up and ready to fly.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yes, And then once they're all ready, they start flying
and they realize very quickly, up it's not a very
good day to fly. And I say, we take a
break and come back and explain just what in the
holy heck I'm talking about?
Speaker 1 (18:10):
All right, what in the holy heck are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Oh well, let me explain, Chuck. It turns out that butterflies,
while being pretty hardy individuals, at least as far as
insects are concerned, on that level, they're also very delicate,
like we talked about with their wings, and even beyond
their wings, getting like a rain drop driving through it,
that can happen, or say like strong wind tattering it.
(18:34):
That's a big problem for a butterfly. Just the temperature,
the ambient temperature has a tremendous effect on them. Not
just because they're ectotherms, meaning they're like a lizard. They
rely on the ambient temperature to warm themselves or cool
themselves off. Their muscles just simply will not function when
it drops below a certain temperature.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yeah, I think Tracy points out they work best when
their internal temperature is about eighty two fahrenheit twenty eight celsius.
And you know, they use these wings for flying, which
is great, but you might think like, oh, it's no
big deal if it's cold, they just kind of hunker down.
But they also use these wings to do all kinds
of like cool things, like, namely to scare away predators.
(19:20):
They can do all sorts of like they can make
eyes where it looks like a scary face, kind of
like their little caterpillar former selves can look like snakes.
They can flash these bright colors that a lot of
times say get away predator. And if they can't move
their wings, it's not just that they can't fly, but
they can't defend themselves or disguise themselves. So it means
(19:41):
that when it's cold outside, or when it's two windy
or rainy or something, then they're way more vulnerable to
prey for sure, or as prey.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Right but even prey could probably get them. That's how
vulnerable they are, so for sure. So you'll often see
like butterflies is kind of bask in the sun. I've
always wondered what they're doing, Like they just seem like
they're they don't know what to do next. That's how
it's always struck me. For some reason, they're thinking of
their next move, but in reality, they're just sitting there
(20:12):
getting warmed up by the sun so they can fly
to another spot. And if you stop and think about it,
the next time you see a butterfly basking in the sun,
I'll bet it's below eighty degrees out and the butterflies
having to warm itself so it can fly on to
the next flower to eat or rest or whatever.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, that's a good point. They do take shelter at
night when it gets chilly. That's why you don't see
butterflies flying around at night mainly. And like you said,
they're what are daytime dwellers called diurnal diurnal day urinal? Yeah,
day ernal? Is that how you remember it?
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Now? It is?
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Okay, you do remember it. That's how I need to
remember it, right, But yeah, they bass those wings, they'll
sit on rocks they shelter at night sometimes that they
will actually do like a kind of like human shiver
to warm up. They can kind of shake their butterfly
wings to get their muscles warmed up to fly. They
(21:13):
just can't go out cold. They gotta do a little
warm up first.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
It's like that knee hike thing. Live their knees really
really high, like in place a bunch of times.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, that soccer players do. Yeah, like that ted Lasso guy.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Right, then there's a name for that. But don't bother
emailing us with it. We can figure it out ourselves.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
They also can use those wings as little reflectors, like
you know how in the nineteen fifties and sixties people
would sit out in the sun with those reflectors under
their neck to reflect sun back on their faces. They
can use their wings to do that to their body
and warm it.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Up, right, which is pretty cool. They can also they
can also keep the sun from warming them up when
it's too hot out. They'll fold their wings together and
just present like the edge, the outer edge of their
wings to the sun, so there's much less surface area.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And they, like
you said, when you see them sitting they're probably not
sitting for long. They're probably sitting just so they can
get it going to fly again very shortly.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Exactly so, even though they're sitting there, warming themselves up
to move from flower to flower even and that's typically
what you see. There's a lot of species I see
at least two hundred that migrate over very long distances,
and monarchs are the ones that they're like the money,
the money butterfly that everybody knows about. But one of
(22:40):
the reasons why is because they migrate so far. Again,
they migrate from eastern Canada to northwest Mexico. It takes
eight months, and not a single butterfly that starts that
journey is alive at the end. So it's like you
look at the butterfly. By the way, the butterfly flock
or a group of butterflies is called the kaleidoscope. M
(23:03):
I love that also, that's the official one. They're also
called flutter, shimmer, and rainbow of butterflies.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Okay, a flutter of butterflies, yep.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
But you look at the kaleidoscope of butterflies, it's like
a single organism in each individual butterfly that lives and
dies and reproduces, not necessarily in that order, as kind
of like cells that function and make up the larger hole.
But it's really a bunch of individual butterflies flying together
but migrating as a whole down from eastern Canada to
(23:33):
northwest Mexico.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, and I guess since we're there, there was a
big deforestation, illegal deforestation, logging operation in Mexico at the
Butterfly Biosphere Reserve in twenty fifteen and they got like
I can't remember, like thirty or forty acres of land
just cut down before anyone knew what was going on.
(23:57):
And since then, and we can't get into it here
because it's really complex, but they have this very involved
plan that they've been enacting since then of reforestation, including
something called assisted migration that I don't fully understand yet,
but I'm going to look into it more.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
They just drive slowly by some butterflies and swipe them
into the car and drive them halfway.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Well, things are better now, but there were a billion
butterflies in that migration in nineteen ninety six, and in
I think twenty sixteen that was down to thirty five
million from a billion, and I think has since gone
up due to these efforts.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
But that's good.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, then you know, butterflies, if you take down where
they're trying to get to, then they're going to die.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, and that's that Biosphere Reserve is a UNESCO World
Heritage Site and you can go visit it. But apparently
when the number of butterflies that show up are in
the billions, the branches that they're sitting on bend under
the weight of butterflies, that's how many butterflies there are
are sometimes. But yes, it's very problematic that there's fewer
(25:04):
and fewer. I'm glad to hear that it's kind of
bounced back a little bit, but they're still under I
don't know if they're endangered or just critical right now,
but there's there's something to keep an eye on, as
we'll see, because they're an indicator species.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
They are, and they're also pollinators. They're not, you know,
the best pollinators, but they're pretty good. They're not like bees.
I mean, bees were made to pollinate. They wear shirts
that they do, they wear be shirts. But the some butterflies,
some butterflies don't spread pollen at all. They just love
(25:40):
that nectar. But generally butterflies are looked at as polleners,
and they have that proboscis. Like you said, that's just
it's made for diving deep into those flowers and getting
all that sweet stuff. But butterflies have lots of dietary needs.
They can't just get by on that sweet, sweet sugar.
They need minerals and stuff, and they get this in
(26:02):
a variety of interesting ways.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Right, Yeah, one is puddles. They'll just descend on a
puddle that's bare dirt. I don't think asphalt would work,
so yeah, it's kind of gross to think about. But
the minerals from the dirt and the soil leach into
the puddle, and the butterflies suck up those minerals through
the puddle, and apparently if there's not enough minerals for
(26:24):
their liking, they'll actually flutter off real quick and then
come back to the puddle, and just that little butterfly
movement is enough disturbance of the water to bring some
extra minerals to the surface of the puddle for them
to drink and to create a hurricane in Belize.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Right, if there's no water, it's pretty gross. If it
gets pretty bad, they will resort to puking onto the
soil and then drinking that mineral puke.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
I took it more as spit.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
One man's other man's that's right.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
But yeah, they need the minerals, the nutrients, and it's
just not enough for the nectar.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yeah, exactly. They've done some studies because they'll they'll eat fruit.
They'll eat rotten fruit on the ground, or they will
get on a piece of fruit. They will stomp on
it with their little feet ye to try and tenderize
it a little bit, and then jab it with that
proboscis and drink it up. And they've done studies that
have found that the fruit eaters live longer and are
(27:30):
better at reproducing in studies because they I think it
was the monarchs. Even they fed them either mash banana
or sugar, and the ones that ate the mash banana
laid almost two times as many eggs, and those eggs
were bigger and like more robust and vital as well.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, I also read that they tend to be easier
going in social situations and are more well liked by
their peers.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
The fruit. Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
So there's a couple other places that they can get
nutrients and minerals, dung, and urine. Butterflies are not above that,
especially if they need it really badly. But the when
they're getting it from a puddle, it's called puddling. There's
just so many great words around butterflies. And there's a
specific word for butterflies pollinating plants. It's called psychophily, like psychophillly,
(28:27):
but with one l okay. Specifically, butterflies pollinating plants is psychophily.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
I thought you would. I found that and I was like,
fuck's gonna love this.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
The sexy stuff you mentioned. They you know, butterflies love
to try and reproduce, and they reproduce like a lot
of animals. They they join themselves. They join end to
end at the abdomen. I think the male has a
like clasps clasps down on the female to make sure
(28:58):
they stay together. And there is sperm from the male
that is eventually going to fertilize the eggs of a female.
But not like you would think, it's pretty remarkable because
what they do is they well, first of all, they
have to recognize each other, like I said, using those antennae,
they recognize themselves as the same species or whatever. And
(29:20):
through their pheromones as well, which is also the antennae,
and then the male delivers a spermatophore, so it's like, hey,
I don't just have sperm for you. I've packaged it
up in a little package for you, and it's got
all these other minerals and nutrients that you love that
will help you in this fertilization process. And they will
(29:41):
take extra time to get an extra good spermatophore package
ready to be an extra attractive mate. The good ones
will sure.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
So I guess the female butterflies when they fertilize their eggs,
they use the the last sperm that was inserted to them,
the last spermatophor package.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
So there are some species where the male will basically
close up shop after he's inserted a spermataphor with kind
of like a sticky substance that prevents more sperm from
going in. So his sperm is the most recent sperm.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Yeah, that's not very cool at all. But I guess
that guy's also like, you know what am I doing
giving you my spermataphor if you're just gonna use the
latest spermataphor that you got.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Exactly I went to a lot of trouble combining the spermatophoor.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yeah, like, look at this stuff. Look at all these minerals.
I also saw that some of the males in some
species will spray them with an off putting scent. Huh,
so no other butterflies will want them. There are mating
dances that they'll do, and they, you know, when the
female gets this spermataphor, they put it in their bursa
(30:57):
and then they wait until they're ready to lay their eggs.
And they actually lay the eggs first and then use
the sperm to fertilize them once they have laid the eggs,
which is also I think pretty unusual in the insect kingdom.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Right, I don't know. For some reason, I had the
impression that they were fertilizing each egg as they were
coming out, kind of like a pez dispenser. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Yeah, that's what I mean though, But they're not, like
they're not fertilized in the body.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
I see what you're saying. They're fertilized externally.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yeah, yeah, sure, that's the word.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
One other thing you talked about terrible smells. I turned
up that there some pheromones are pleasant smelling to humans. Specifically,
let me tell you about the green vein white butterfly.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Let's hear it.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
It puts together lemon oil for all intents and purposes.
It has the same chemical composition as lemon oil, but
it's the pheromone it produces to attract a mate. And
I got to tell you, lemon oil is a pretty
great smell. It would attract me too.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
So if you ever smell a great vein white during
mating season, you're gonna smell some lemon oil.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
The gestation periods about three days, and they lay anywhere
from ten to three hundred eggs in clusters over a
two to four week period.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Oh wow, it's that long.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Yeah, it can't. Yeah, two to four weeks and these eggs,
you know, they lay that many because it's tough for
these eggs to survive into adulthood. They got to be
the temperature's got to be just right, humidity's got to
be just right. They can rot very easily if it's
too wet. If it's not wet enough, they're going to
dry out. And then of course there's all those predators
(32:39):
that are just dying to eat those butterfly eggs.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
They need to find the goldilock zone with the humidity
for the eggs.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
That's right, they do.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
So they also make sure that they put the eggs
on their baby's favorite food, which is a certain kind
of plant. Their butterflies are very frequently indiscriminate pollinators. They
just go from plant to plant. But there are also
plenty of species that are very plant specific, and those
are the ones where they will not only eat that
plant while they're caterpillars, they were probably born on that
(33:10):
same plant as well.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
We used to have a butterfly bush in our yard
that was those things get really big and out of control,
kind of in a we have sort of a wild
garden anyway. It's not like a you know, super manicure
like English type garden. It's kind of a crazy, fun garden.
So it fit in the garden and we had tons
and tons of butterflies. But it went away. And I
(33:32):
don't know if it was because I think some people,
well I think it could be an invasive species, and
a lot of people say, like they'll play it the
butterfly bush, but we had one for a while but
don't now, so Emily may have taken it down for
that reason.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
So the reason it's considered invasive and harmful the butterflies
is it produces tons of nectar, but it has no
value in supporting eggs or the life cycle of it
other than nectar for adults, And so it's a distract
from native plants that do provide not just nectar but
also shelter and a place to lay their eggs. So
(34:07):
it actually disrupts the life cycle of local butterflies. Even
though it's a butterfly bush and they love it, it's
actually bad for them. So I have to go cut
down mine after this.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Even if you have a lot of those natives nearby,
like as a whole, it's still bad, yes.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Because it's a distraction because it's so chuck full of
nectar that they go to that one instead and just
die off.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Well, some distractions are okay, right, like television.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Sure, you could put a TV with an extension cord
out in your butterfly garden. That's not going to harm them.
If you have a butterfly bush, you have to chop
it down. I command you, all right.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
They're really pretty though, and it's fun to see other butterflies,
But yeah, I get you.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
In the But wait until you've planted other plants, which
we'll talk about, and then you can chop down your
butterfly bush.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
All right, Well, let's take a break or second break,
and we'll talk a little bit more about what's going
on with a butterf population and the butterfly gardens right
after this. Okay, Well, we talked already about the monarchs
(35:30):
and how they had been hit hard from the illegal
logging going on in Mexico in the mid twenty tens,
and in general, butterflies are doing okay, but there are
some you know, pesticides and things like that. I think
one of the other big reasons besides the logging for
that migration of the monarchs, I think pesticides has killed
(35:53):
a lot of milkweed, which I think the monarchs love.
So pesticides are a big threat. And it's not like
I'm just going to spray this one little part of
my garden, Like pesticides in your garden in one part
of your garden generally means it's in most parts of
your garden.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah, it travels very easily. But on top of that,
butterflies are extremely sensitive to pesticides. So I don't know
about herbicides, but definitely pesticides, So if you are going
to plan a butterfly garden, you want to use natural
pest defenses. But that's a big thing that's killing off
butterflies and bees too.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
And then also we talked about it in the last episode.
A lot of people think of caterpillars as pests. It's like, oh,
you ate some of them, I lettuce, I'm going to
kill all of you. That kills butterflies too. They never
make it to be adult butterflies, and you've just disrupted
generations of butterflies that could have been So when you
put all that together, humans have not been super good
(36:48):
for butterflies. Did you mention urbanization and roads too? Now
those are a problem. Like anytime we build somewhere, we
destroy plants, and those often are butterflies or that's a
butterfly habitat. And then the roads that we have, the
marginal land alongside of the roads are often like great
places for butterfly centric plants to grow. But that means
(37:12):
that the butterflies are very close to cars that are
going seventy eighty miles an hour, which is never good
for the butterfly when they come in contact with them. So, yeah,
like I was saying, humans have been kind of bad
for butterflies, but fortunately we're starting to wake up and
see the value in butterflies goes beyond like let's put
that thing on a stamp, Like, there's there's more value
(37:33):
to the butterfly than just its esthetic beauty. But that
makes it plenty valuable in and of itself.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
I wonder if butterflies and other insects would ever if
natural selection would be such that they would learn to
fly higher than the height of an average car.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Sure, I could see that, but then they run into
semis and they're like, it's going to take millions more
years to get higher than a semi.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Maybe they'll figure out how to fly under cars very quickly.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Okay, that collecting butterflies is, believe it or not, another
thing that has hit the butterfly population. Butterfly collecting butterflies
is a thing. Hunting butterflies and putting them behind glass
in your office is a thing that some people are
really into. And I don't know a lot about that,
(38:28):
but I do know that that there are certain species
that are endangered, and part of the problem is over collecting.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Yeah, and the more rare a butterfly species gets, the
more desirable it is for collectors, and the more collecting
harms that population because it's so small. So or a burros,
but the worst kind.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yeah, and I imagine we'll hear from some collectors who
who can tell us that there are responsible ways of
doing this. I really don't know enough about it to
speak to it, but I'm not gonna click butterflies, That's
all I'm gonna say.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah, I wonder if it's one of those things like ivory,
where it's like, Okay, this happened, this is done, Like
these things are are out there and we're not just
gonna throw them away. That's an even bigger waste. So
like antique ivory or antique taxidermy, butterflies are legal, but
anything new is illegal. I wonder if it's treated like
(39:24):
that or what. But I get the impression that butterflies
don't have that much legal protection. I think they do
on paper, but it's very rarely enforced.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Yeah. I guess if you find one in the ground
or something that's uh, you know that for your collection.
Sure not sunning on a rock, but you know dead right.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Sure it just fell over of old age.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Uh, should we talk about butterfly gardens here at the end.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Yeah, because one of the things people are doing or saying, like, hey, butterflies,
we got to save these butterflies. If we don't, things
are gonna go pear shaped even more. And so people
are starting to plant butterfly gardens.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Yeah, because I think you said they're a big indicator
of like, if butterflies are dying off all around you,
that's a big indicator of how your local ecosystem is doing,
in large part.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
The canary and the coal mine.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah, exactly. And butterfly gardens are beautiful and it doesn't
take a lot. You need some plants, and you're gonna
want plants. Well, you're gonna want to find out what
kind of butterflies you have around you.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
That's a big one.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
You can look with your eyeballs and then cross reference,
or you can just look it up on the internet,
and then you want to find out what kind of
plants those butterflies love that are native to your area
and plant those.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Chuck. When I was researching this, all I wanted to
do was be done with this episode so I can
go garden.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Oh. I love that Emily's gardening. I'm looking at it
right now, is gardening outside?
Speaker 2 (40:47):
Well, pound on your window and tell her I'm jealous
of her.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
We got I put it on my Instagram. I don't
know if you saw it, but I saw a huge,
well it's not that big, but a hornet's nest in
our backyard yesterday. That is the coolest, most beautiful thing.
I'm kind of tucked in a magnolia branch about only
four feet off the ground. Yeah, And I'm glad I
saw it because I was about to go do some
(41:12):
trimming of my box woods right behind it in a
few days and I would have bumped right into that thing.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
So, oh boy.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Now we're just going to steer clear of it until
it is out of season and then hopefully try and
preserve it. But hornets ness are so cool looking, and
I just love that we have one back there. We
got a crazy backyard full of all kinds of critters.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Does it look like a mummy's head? Sometimes it looks.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
It looks like a sort of a mummy's head, But
if it was an alien mummy, because it's like top heavy,
and it looks like it has a little mouth at
the bottom. You know, their little door. Yeah, I'll send
you a picture, it's cool.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Yeah, or I can just go on Instagram like everybody else.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Now you get text privies.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Thanks man.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
What else about the butterfly guarden? You need water, right, Yeah?
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Remember they like to drink minerals from puddles, So if
you have a little bit of water dripping that forms
a puddle in the soil, that's definitely gonna help them.
You want rocks for them to sun on. A big one, Chuck,
is you want to use native plants. I know you
and Emily are like big into that, and I feel
like people, including myself, are really waking up to just
(42:19):
how bad for the local ecosystem like non native plants are,
and to use native plants whenever you can when you're
building a butterfly garden. It's crucial because even plants within
the same species can be harmful to butterflies. Yeah, and
I have an example if you'll allow me. Sure, So,
(42:39):
butterflies in Florida and Georgia in the southeast in general,
I think, are very very keen on what's called butterfly weed.
It's what monarchs love. It's that very tiny, multi flowered,
orange flowered weed. It's a type of milk weed. Okay, yeah,
that's native. There's another kind of milkweed called tropical milk
(43:02):
weed that does just fine in Florida and Georgia in
the southeast too, but it's not native. And the problem
with putting that in your butterfly garden into the Southeast
is that it blooms so late into the season that
butterflies will keep reproducing and entire parts of the population
will freeze to death because they've gone beyond their natural
(43:25):
reproductive window. And then furthermore, when the temperature drops a
little bit, they're more susceptible to a specific kind of
protozoan parasite called ot or oe I. Can't remember that
they wouldn't otherwise be if they were just on the
native milkweed rather than the tropical milkweed. So like, that's
how much attention you really should be paying to your
(43:47):
butterfly garden, because you can inadvertently harm them while you're
doing something you think is good for them, like putting
a butterfly bush out there. Everybody would think, like, that's great,
I'm gonna put a butterfly bush out and I can
pretty much call myself Gandhi from here on out the butterflies.
But it turns out you're harming them. So it's definitely
something that you need to take some research for. But
it's the kind of research that it's like an invitation
(44:10):
to go, like immerse yourself in the natural world in
all of the best ways.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Yeah. Boy, that butterfly weed is beautiful.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Yes it is, and it's native to Georgia. So you
just plan it all you.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Like, you know what, I'm gonna go tell Emily like, oh,
this butterfly milkweed and shes gonna be like it's right
behind you, coming right.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
But it's not only a food source, it's a it's
like a place where monarchs lay their eggs. So you
will have butterflies like living in your garden. I mean
they'll fly to Mexico eventually, but they'll hang out there
for a while. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
I mean that's the cool thing about the butterfly garden too.
If you if you do it right, then you're you're
gonna have butterflies in your yard. And not only that,
but butterflies are gonna like word gets around and it'll
become a place for butterflies. It'll become like a haven
for butterflies, and they don't. They don't generally, I mean
the ones who migrate migrate. But other than that, you
(45:01):
could have you could have butterflies families living their whole
life back there in your backyard.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Yeah. And speaking of backyards, I've got a backyard. A
lower part of my backyard is kind of wild. I
keep it wild, like I don't know it very often,
and there's lots of weeds and like little clovers and
stuff growing. So I've left it there for the beds,
the birds and the bees and all that and the butterflies.
But I'm going full on, man, I'm going to let
Oh yes, it's gonna be all butterflies, like up to
(45:27):
your hips butterfly stuff. I cannot wait to go plan it.
It's I'm really looking forward to it because it's really
goes right up to the edge of some woods too,
so it's gonna be amazing.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Yeah, there's something we really love like leading green spaces
and making it an invitation for animals, you know, like
I got my camp up there in North Georgia, and
like all of North Georgia is just being torn down
for neighborhoods and and or and you know, if you're
a hunter. Let's fine that that's your thing. I'm not
(46:00):
into it. And we love that we have this acreage
where we're just like, tell your dear buddies this to
come to our land setup shop here. No one will
be shooting you, and spread the word everybody. We have.
We have a safe space for all you critters out here.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Yes, except for humans, because it's also a most dangerous
game type setup. You got going there?
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Huh well sure the weekends.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Right. Let's see one more thing about butterflies. There is
an amazing fact that I think we can end on.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
How about that, Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
They're frequently cited as inspiring the discovery of the RH
blood factor, which is a type of subtype of blood types,
and it actually cured what's known as Rhese's hemolytic disease,
which is where a baby has a positive RH blood
type and is born from a mother with a negative
RH blood type and its immune system starts attacking its blood.
(46:56):
Not good, but the discover of the R blood factor.
His name is Sir Cyril Clark, and he was big
time in the butterflies, and he was inspired by the
butterfly's ability to mimic other butterflies genetically, that they had
these what are called super genes, these big clusters of
genes that all produce this mimicry, and that we're refined
(47:17):
by smaller genes over time. And he was like, I
wonder if that has to do with blood types and diseases,
and in fact, it was Oh, wow, yeah, so butterflies,
super useful, super beautiful. Go cut down your butterfly bush today. Amazing,
Chuck said, amazing. So that means it's time for listener
mail everybody.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
I'm gonna call this our influence on Spotify. Perhaps, Hey, guys,
I was wondering, wondering if you were aware of your
potential impact on Spotify searches. On the Milli Vanilli episode,
Josh mentioned the song owner of a Lonely Heart by
Yes being the best song of the eighties, And in
my head, I'm like, I'm not sure what that song
is is, but I said it out loud and immediately
(48:03):
the chorus popped into my head. So I go over
to listen to it later on Spotify. I see a
ton of covers for it, and I see Millie Vanilli
is also in the search results, which was going to
be my next search. So I think you guys may
have had enough people searching Owner of a Lonely Heart
and Millie Vanilly close together so that the algorithm associated
(48:24):
those two. That's awesome because other than the time period,
it's not similar music.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
You know, No, I would say not.
Speaker 1 (48:31):
Maybe do a test to mention two unrelated songs for
something to see what happens. Oh boy, should we try it?
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Yeah, let's mix Sabbath and you pick the other one.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Okay, So Black Sabbath, you name a song specifically, Warpigs. Okay, Warpigs. Hey, everybody,
if you haven't heard Warpigs, you should go search it
on Spotify. Give it a listen. It's a great song.
And while you're at it, I don't know if you've
ever heard Barry Manilow's Chuck.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
I was going to suggest Barry Manilo I had it.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Well, I had a fifty to fifty chance there. I
don't know if you've ever heard the Barry Manilo song
even Now, but it's a classic Barry Manilo song. And
everyone should just go search those two on Spotify.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
So war Pigs and even Now by Black Sabbath and
Barry Manilo, Let's see what happens. Let's see what happened.
That was a great experiment. Who was that from?
Speaker 1 (49:27):
That was from Corey and I just want to give
Corey's to side notes. Saw you guys for the Andre
the Giant Live in Chicago episode. I also saw Josh's
Into the World Live in Chicago when you tour that
your short series. That was so great and I really
enjoy that. Josh walked by on his way in when
(49:47):
we were outside and patted my friend Sam on the shoulder,
and he's definitely mentioned that several times since then.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
So that's from Corey and you patted Sam on the shoulder.
I think that mean launch say.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Yeah, thanks for coming to see me, Sam and Corey.
It was a fun show. Actually, let's see if you
want to let us know how this experiment pans out.
Corey's experiment is what we're gonna call it Corey's choice.
How about that love it? No, let's call it a
Corey's song rather than Brian's song. Oh okay, okay, no,
(50:25):
Corey can wait perfect Okay.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
So oh no, but how about Corey's in Charge?
Speaker 2 (50:31):
Okay, that's a good one. That's perfect. We're gonna end
on that. If you want to let us know how
the Corey's in Charge experiment goes, but we'd love to
hear from you, you can send us an email to
Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff You Should Know News
Hosts And Creators
Chuck Bryant
Josh Clark
Show Links
AboutOrder Our BookStoreSYSK ArmyRSSPopular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.