November 16, 2023 • 46 mins
Diners may just be the most American establishment there is. They were born in the USA, thanks to European immigrants, and they only exist in the USA, unless it's a kitschy homage. So break open that 12-page menu and order up.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody get this. Chuck and I will be back
on tour this January out in the Pacific Northwest. On
the twenty fourth of January, we'll be in Seattle at
the Paramount Theater and the next day, January twenty fifth,
will be in Portland, Oregon at our beloved Revolution Hall.
You can get tickets on pre sale right now use
our offer code sysk live or the promoter's offer code
(00:21):
true West, and then general sale tickets start Friday. We'll
see you guys in January.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is Stuff you
should Know, the Greasiest of the Greasy Spoons edition.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
That's right. May I have a moment at the top
here to speak to our layoff of last week that
no one even knows because the Stuff you should listener
were right on time.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I'll step aside into the wings as the spotlight zero's
in on you. Well.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
First of all, I just wanted to thank everybody. My
my we lost our dog, Charlie. We had to put
our eldest Charlie to sleep last week, and so I
wanted to say thank you to all the people on
Instagram who were so kind, many many hundreds of people
commenting and many many thousands of people parting, and that always,
(01:27):
you know, helps out. But this was a tough one.
You know, we've lost five animals now since stuff you
should know launched, which is remarkable. Don't you think you
have a huge bummer, huge bummer. But Charlie, it was rough.
This was Ruby's first loss, and she insisted on being there,
(01:49):
so we kept her out of school and the vet
comes out of our house and Ruby was there for
the whole thing and she did you know, it was
devis but she did great and many many lessons were learned.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Man, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Chuck, Yeah, she did a good job. It was yeah.
I mean they're all very hard always, but I think
maybe being Ruby's first made it a little tougher even
she had. I think I've been saying it this way,
which is when you have an eight year old, you
hear all different kinds of cries out of your kid,
(02:26):
and they all have an agenda, usually right like I
didn't get this, or I wanted that, or I'm hungry,
or I got hurt or whatever, like they all have
like a different sound and a different meaning, but this
one was brand new, and this was a cry of
pure heartbreak and it was awful. So it sounded different
(02:50):
and it was not something I want to hear again
anytime soon. I had no agenda attached to it, and
then I think that's what part of the awfulness was.
It was just just heartbreak. So it was rough. We
got through it. And I know I told you guys
this personally, but I want like the world to know
(03:11):
how amazing you and Jerry are for basically just saying
like this. We record on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Two hours
before we were set to record is when we decided
to do it, like we got to do this tomorrow.
So I was clearly not going to record then, and
then we did it Wednesday, and Thursday rolls around and
(03:31):
I still was in no shape to do it, and
this screwed up our schedule, and you guys were just
really supportive, like family is. So I want everyone to
understand that.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
You got it. Of course we wouldn't be any other
way because we are family.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
I appreciate that. And now we are in phase three.
The decision is phase one, which is awful doing it
is Phase two and now the not thereness is the
extended just sort of muscle memory of all the you know,
the routines that are built into your life with a
pet that all of a sudden you go to do
(04:06):
and it's not happening. So adjusting to that.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I was holding it okay for phase one and two,
but you just got me with phase three.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, it's it's the little things like, oh, Charlie licks
the cats spoon, so when you do the cat's meal,
you go your body still goes to put the spoon down, stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Like that, and then you just have to look at
yourself and sob well you do.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
That's exactly right. I've been eating a lot of cat food.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
That's gotta make the whole thing that much worse too.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I have been sick to my stomach, but it's pretty tasty.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Well on behalf of everybody who knows and loves you,
or even people who don't like you. I'm very sorry
that you guys could go through that. That's an awful thing.
And I can't even make myself get into your shoes.
I won't do it, So don't I am You.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Can take the mon you can take the month off
one day when when you need to.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah, I don't want to talk about that.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Now you don't have to, So okay, well, welcome back.
Now let's talk about diners.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
I think it's good we're easing into diners like it's
a warm bath, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, because diners, agreed,
maybe the easiest topic we've ever done in our entire lives.
I cannot think of an easier one, can you.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Well. I mean I think we've had a lot of
stuff that's easy, all right, Like like any of the
toy episodes stuff like that is all easy.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Uh yeah, yeah, I guess you're right. But this one,
I don't know. For some reason, it just struck me
as easy. It has like a lot of like a
narrative arc. It has overlooked pop culture here there peppering
with it. It's got some neat little just kind of
pull points bullet points that we can go. I just
like it. It's just easy. And thanks to Olivia for helping
(05:53):
us with it.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah. Oh, and speaking of Livia, this turned out to
be a great assignment because Livia is sibling in law
runs a diner. Ember is o, Livia's sibling in law,
and they restored not only a diner, but they restored
the Wooster lunch car number seven sixty five man from
(06:15):
all the way back in nineteen thirty nine. And that
will all make sense what that is shortly, Yeah, it'll
be and super impressive. But this is in Moran. It's
the Moran Square Diner in Fitchburg, Massachusetts. And this thing
is awesome and the genuine article, and they serve you know,
like a diner food but updated and not fancy. But
(06:38):
you know, it's just sort of a more modern telling,
like there's some vegan options and from local farms, just
sort of elevated diner food. Right, So guys, say hi
to Ember.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, Hey, Ember and the diner. I know we're all
be eating next time. I'm in Fitchburg.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I know where's Pitchburg.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
I don't know, But what's the name of it? Again?
Tell everybody so they can.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Go there in the square or for all I know,
it's the Moran Square Diner. Mrin.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Okay, that's great. Yeah, thanks to Livia for helping us
with this one. Thanks to her family members for keeping
the diner thing going. And really, chuck if you want
to thank anybody, I feel like we have to thank
Walter Scott.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
So Walter Scott. The reason we're thanking him is he
is a printer for Providence, Rhode Island. And this was
at the time where people who were in one profession
could break into completely other professions. It's just what they
did back then in the.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Nineteenth century, not like today.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
No, not like today. You like, keep your head down
and stay in your lane. That's what you do, that's right.
So Walter Scott decided that there was a whole market
that was being missed. That there were people who worked
the late shift and when they were either going into
or coming off of that shift, the restaurants weren't open.
There was nowhere for them to get food. They didn't
(07:58):
have cafeterias that were They were totally esked, you know.
So he said, I'm going to start selling food to
these people, and the best way to do that is
to just sell it out of a horse and carriage.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Basically, yeah, which was essentially a food truck.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
They called him lunch Wagons and he got copped pretty
quick or imitated, I guess, because people, you know, back then,
ingenuity and starting a new business was all the rage.
So it's a guy named Sam Jones who said, all right,
I'm going to start up my own late night food
truck wagon. I'm going to name it the Owl. It's
(08:37):
going to be in what's the Mass And.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Walter Scott was like, oh, I hadn't thought of naming it.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, that's a pretty good name too for a late
night eatery, for sure. And that was imitated and people,
you know, it was a bible business all of a sudden.
Jones expanded his own enterprise in eighteen eighty seven by saying, hey,
let's go ahead and make one of these that actually
has a kitchen and maybe a few spots at a
counter where you can eat. No servers yet at this point,
(09:04):
it's just like people got their food through a window.
And then he started adding more and more carts, and
then he moved to Springfield, added more carts there, and
it was a legit business at that point.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah. So between eighteen seventy two and by eighteen ninety one,
the concept had been born, added upon and then was
patented in eighteen ninety one by a guy named Charles Palmer,
and Charles Palmer bought Sam Jones's wooster setup. When Sam
Jones moved to Springfield, and he's the one who patented it.
He said, I don't know why you didn't do this,
(09:39):
but I'm going to patent it. And his design was
extremely simple, but he added a counter, so now there
was a separation between the kitchen and where you sat
inside the dining area like in the actual diner. He
added those windows, or at least he patented those windows
that you handed food to other people who were just
taking it to go. Just the barest minimum of an idea.
(10:04):
He went and patented it. But it eventually became Diners.
And what's interesting is the reason it became Diners was
not from like some normal evolution. It was from social
pressures instead that basically took these mobile food trucks and said, hey,
take the wheels off of those things. Guys.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah. Yeah, Well what happened was, you know, this was
such a viable business model for people opening these And
this is what happens a lot of times with early
sort of innovations is then you innovate around it. So
companies that manufactured like buildings and things and as you'll
(10:42):
see railroad cars, they saw that people were doing this
in little structures, and they said, well, we're going to
start manufacturing these little food wagons and just selling them
to people, these boxes on wheels with little kitchens. Yeah,
and maybe we'll make them kind of cool looking on
the outside and paint them so they're sthetically pleasing, and
we can ship them. We can ship them on trains.
(11:04):
They're small enough at this point where you can put
them on a truck if you need to. And there
were three big builders of these at the time. The
Wooster Lunch Car and Carriage Car and Carriage Manufacturing Company
this is a Massachusetts and then there was one in
New Jersey called the Jerry O. Mahoney Company, and then
the PJ. Tyranny Company in New York building these sort
(11:25):
of made to order little restaurants that you can just
PLoP down and start working on.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah, And like you said, the Marin Square Diner Olivia's
Relatives Diner in Fitchburg, they redid or refurbished a Worcester
Lunch Car and Carriage Manufacturing Company prefab.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, and number seven sixty five.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, there are some still around, not just from that company,
but it seems like there's a lot of Jerry o'
mahoney's still around and in operation. Like they built these
things solid. As a matter of fact, one of them,
I think it might have been PJ. Tierney said, if
there's something wrong with it, or your thing starts coming apart,
put it back on a train, ship it to us.
We'll tune it up and send it back to you,
(12:07):
which I mean, and then he was like, nobody's going
to do it, No, exactly, Like I can't imagine anyone
took them up on it. I mean, what a pain
that would be. But it kind of goes to show
like they stood behind their caftsmanship and just the fact
that these things have been around for one hundred years.
Some of them haven't even been refurbished. Yeah, that you know,
they did a good job making. I'm I guess, is
(12:28):
what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah. Absolutely. And then kind of what you were talking
about in the early twentieth century, you know, you start
parking these lunch wagons everywhere, a couple of things are
going to happen. Restaurants nearby are going to say, hey,
wait a minute, what the heck? These people can just
move all over town and serve wherever they want. That's
no good for us, and then people that lived in
(12:51):
these towns and some of them they're like, I don't
like these things moving all over the place and parking
on the street. So they just started to park it
where they were and just serve food from one place.
And in nineteen thirteen, with the Jerry o' mahoney company,
they started producing sort of the same thing, a prefab restaurant,
(13:13):
but this time they were made to just sit there.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Right. They were about twenty six feet long, which is
really specific.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Right, Yeah, it was very specific.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
And I think Jerry o' mahoney, I think it was no.
Patrick Tierney was the one who took this idea when
they started making them stationary, and it was like, let's
dress these up a little bit. So like if you
look at some of the old ones that are still around,
like they have like handlaid tile, the wood sometimes has
like carvings in it. They're pretty neat. They're very cool
(13:47):
look and they look super nineteen twenties. Even. I think
there's one called Casey's. I can't remember where it is.
I think it'll come up later. Where like that. The
light fixtures are original to it too. But this whole
thing was like it was a diner that it came
to you, the diner owner, on a train car and
then was taken to your location and set up and
you would hook water up to it and gas up
(14:08):
to it, bring in your appliances and just open your
doors and start serving hash browns.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
I guess, or at the very least hash.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, that's how you made your initial money, I think.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
So the deal with why they're called diners is very
simple is because they were shipped on these trains. In
order to fit on the trains, they were shaped like
railroad cars and they essentially were modeled after railroad dining cars.
So they called them diners like the diner car on
a train, and they, you know, were sort of smoothly
(14:47):
curved for aerodynamics, and like you said, Tierney came along
and added some like chrome and this is in the
nineteen thirties when that Art Deco thing was happening. And
so that's why you know the diners, the sort of
the class diner that you think of has that chrome
look and neon and these padded benches and built in
boosts is all modeled after these cool trains, and they're
(15:10):
dining cars at the time.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
If I remember correctly from our Googie episode though that
streamline modern look, yeah that you think of with the
classic diner that was modeled on the trains of the time.
I think the trains were actually modeled on ships. I
think the ships were the ones that originally, oh really
had that look. Yeah, and then it was taken from
(15:32):
that for buildings and trains and diners eventually.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah. And you may have been thinking of Mickey's because
Libya listed Mickey's Diner in Saint Paul, Minnesota is one
of the O Mahoney ones, And just do yourself a
favor and look this thing up at some point if
you're listening, because the Mickeys Diner in Saint Paul is
beautiful and gorgeous and a kind of a perfect quintessential
(15:57):
example of these shipped pre ab restaurants.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
I think I think the one I'm talking about is
Casey's Diner and Natick Okay, I think that's the one.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
You're all gorgeous though.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
They are, and that's the one that still has like
Handley tile and it looks like the original like light
fixtures and all that. There's still some pea in the
toilet from the very first customer, like it is authentic.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Should we take a break?
Speaker 1 (16:25):
I think so?
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Now, all right, somebody at Casey's needs to instagrab that
toilet and we'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
So we have like a oh, we're back by the way, Chuck,
just stuy. I know it's been a minute since we recorded.
But the kind of view that we have of diners
today is set in time, as we'll see, and it's
set in a certain period of time. But prior to that,
there was a pretty different view of diners, and it
(17:19):
was that it was like basically a working man's place
to get grub, and that very much grew out of
where diners originated. They served food grub to working men,
and you didn't have to basically be particularly genteel or
mannerly to go to a diner. So diners started to
(17:41):
get reputations as places where, you know, if you're a
middle class man or a woman of any kind, you
would probably steer clear of diners. Up until about World
War two, that's the reputation that they had. Even as
cool as they looked, you didn't really go there unless
you were like a blue collar dude. Essentially, there were,
(18:01):
of course, people who would kind of break custom and go.
But for the most part, that's kind of what they
regarded as that kind of place like a Dave and
Busters today.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Right, you know my beef with Dave and Busters is
when was the last time you went in one? Or
have you ever?
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Oh? I have, it's been a really long time.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
There aren't enough just regular arcade games. I think it's
weird now like they have it. Yeah, they'll have like
a pac Man, but it's on a fifteen foot screen.
They just need an area, you know, a little bit
for the for our generation who are taking children and
stuff to where you know, dad wants to play a
little galaga and dad can't.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, I'm totally with you, man.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Anyway, kids love them. They don't know what a galagh is.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
No, they're done.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
So the menus at this time were not the most expansive.
I know these days are kind of known like you
go into a good Greek diner and there's like nine
pages of things. You'd get a pot roast, or you
can get an omelet. But back then it was kind
of grab and go, or you would eat kind of
quick because you got to get back to your shift,
(19:14):
or if you didn't have to get back to your shift.
You just ate and kind of hung around and maybe
gambled a little bit or something like that.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
It was like the local diner. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Probably it was like you know what you would imagine,
like eggs and you know, stuff like that. It's real satisfying,
maybe a sandwich, but pretty limited. They were generally owned
and frequented at the time by second generation, maybe first
generation European immigrants. So you might also find some sort
of local to their place in Europe stuff like you
(19:46):
might find spaghetti or a goulash or something like that,
along with some American style stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah. So the fact that you can find the best
bakleva in America at diners is it follows in that
tradition because so many diners are owned by Greek immigrant families.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah, well, should we go ahead and talk about that?
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah? Why not? Because apparently there was a point in time,
if it's not still going on, where Greek immigrants basically
ran the show as far as diners went in the
entire United States.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, I think the Livia found one source that said
ninety percent of diner owners in the US were Greek,
and not only that, they were from the island of
Carpathos or Carpathos. I'm not sure that they pronounced it.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I'm going with Carpathos Carpathos.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
What I say, Pathos Carpathos.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
I think that's where Balki came from. Uh.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
And there were a couple of waves of these immigrations
the early twentieth century. They would own coffee shops and
Greek neighborhoods. But the diners that we're thinking of today
happened after an influx of Greek immigrants in nineteen sixty five.
And like a lot of businesses is sort of where
(21:01):
you might think, like, wait, it seems like a lot
of people from this country run this kind of business.
It's because they come here, they run it. Their family
works there, and then the son or daughter maybe splinters
often opens one and some of their family might come
over and cousins and work there, right, And it's just
it's a family business, and it expands in such a
way where all of a sudden, ninety percent of them
(21:23):
are Greek diners.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah. It also explains that those coffee cups that were
huge in the late twentieth century in New York that
were blue with white lettering and kind of like a
classic Greek style because the Greek's owned the diners. It's
just as simple as that, which I'd know the Broadway
diner that used to be here in Atlanta that was
(21:44):
definitely owned by Greek people. There's one on not Holcombe Bridge.
What's the other bridge that's done off of Piedmont that
Cheshire Bridge. I can't remember the name of that diner,
but that's owned by Greek people. These are like, I
know what you mean, quality diners too, by the way,
but I don't think I've been in a diner that
didn't at least show its Greek roots by offering like
(22:09):
baclava or euros or something like that. And maybe even
my life, I don't think I've been in a diner
that wasn't a chain, that wasn't owned clearly by a
Greek family. Yeah, so at that ninety percent checks out,
I guess, is what I'm trying to say. Anecdotally, at
least I agree.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
So post World War Two, we kind of brought you
up to World War two and what it was like.
WW two brought all kinds of changes to America, a
couple of which were really important as far as diners
were concerned. One was people, you know, that was sort
of an economic boom, so people had a little bit
more money to eat out at restaurants, which wasn't a
(22:49):
huge thing prior to that. And the other thing that
happened was suburbia kind of started happening, which included one,
families moving to suburbia and two big you know, facilities
and factories and plants in suburbia. But they had their
own cafeterias, right, so their markets were sort of declining
(23:11):
in one way. But at the same time, these middle
class families started coming out and they wanted to eat
in these diners, and so they made changes to sort
of accommodate for that.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, they were so lucky because their market just bottomed
out like almost overnight after the war. And the fact
that they were able to just kind of adapt and
change their whole jam and be successful again, that's hats
off to them. But the way that they were able
to kind of find another market was that those families
that had more money to eat out. And interestingly, I
(23:43):
hadn't thought about this, but a lot of women entered
the workforce for the first time in World War two,
and after the war, a lot of them stayed in
the workforce like this. This custom had been broken, and
there was a new social acceptance of women working. It
was more socially accepted than it was before. And if
you're working every day, you probably don't want to cook
every day. So now not only does your family have
(24:06):
the money to go eat out, you have a great
incentive to go eat out if you're the mom too, like,
let's go eat out somewhere. But you don't want to
spend all of your money every time you go out.
So diners kind of moved to the suburbs and said
to and open their doors, and those families with the
little extra money and working moms came to eat there.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
That's right. And I'm gonna go ahead and stop people
emailing to say, Josh, you missed a great joke opportunity.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Oh what was it?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Well, when you said hats off, you probably should have said,
my fez is off to you?
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Where feeses increase?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Isn't it Greek?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
No, that's Northern African, like Morocca, Moroccan or something or Tunisian. Okay,
I think you're thinking of Shriners, and there may be
some Greek Shriners. I'm not sure. But in Greece they
wear those little kind of sailors caps, almost like a sailor.
It's a cruss between a newsboy cap and a cap
captain's cap. Okay, do you know what I'm talking about?
(25:04):
Look up Greek Greek cap?
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Well you know what, I just looked up Fez's Moroccan.
But it's actually ancient Greek in origin.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
That seems like a pretty wild technicality if you.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Ask me, it is because it is probably not associate
with Greece.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
But look right, my Greek cap. You'll know exactly what
I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Well, wait, but I bet there's a name for it, right,
the Greek cap. It doesn't have a I don't know,
Oh yeah, like a Greek fisherman's cap.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yes, exactly, that's exactly what I mean. That's what you
would find somebody wearing it a diner who worked there.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, a skipper cap or a Breton cap.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Okay, so there you go. So I tip my Breton cap.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Where were we? Oh, we were talking about women all
of a sudden, being like, hey, I don't have to
cook all these meals. That's great, right.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
And then the diners moved to the suburbs and found
like a whole new market. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
And the other thing that they did to help sort of,
you know, they kind of cleaned up their act a
little bit, yeah, and said listen to you guys, maybe
don't gamble. Inside the restaurant, they started all of a
sudden there were servers, Like they wanted to make it
a more you know, full restaurant kind of experience, so
you don't even have to get up and go get
(26:15):
the plates of food. Now we're going to have people
serving them to you, yeah, domesticate them. And and teenagers
all of a sudden it was like, hey, we can
go hang out of the diner after school, or like
these things are open light at night. If we're up
to no good, we can go buy the diner and
you know and pour a little whiskey into our soda pop.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
So Also, and another thing that domesticated the those diners
was that those servers were in large part women. The
new servers that have been brought on board were women,
and that signaled to families like, hey, this is a
safe place. Like if I'm safe to work here, you're
safe to eat here. Hun right, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah, they were to say, yeah, uh, these were still
prefab restaurants for the most part, even post war, but
they added more windows, they added like sort of that
pastel color theme that you see in diners came along then, yes,
sometimes mirrored ceilings, yeah, tile for mica counters. That's that
(27:16):
nineteen fifties kind of look because they had to all
of a sudden, you know, cars were resuming by in
the road and they had to get people's attention to
stop and eat. So the diners had to look you know, cooler.
And that's kind of where that Googi thing come in.
You might have a cool Googi sign, so a car
would go, ah, I got to stop there, right.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
So the image that you have of diners, like popular
diners that you see in like a movie like Greece
or something like that, or Happy Days or whatever that was.
It solidified to this era, the suburban post World War
two diners. The image that we have of diners is
like the classic thing.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah, still mainly in Northeast affair, but starting around the
fifties and into the sixties is when they tried to
expect and west and South and it didn't go quite
like it did in the Northeast. In the South, I
think people associated diners with the Northeast.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
And the War of Northern Aggression, I think still too.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Well sure, and just there was you know, in the
South at the time, there were just a lot of
things where it was like, oh, you know, that's how
the Northerners do it, and we don't do things that way,
so that we didn't have diners down here like they
did up there.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
No, not in classic style, but diners in everything but
name were here pretty early on. I think waffle House
started in nineteen fifty five, and I'm sure there were
diners that, like silver Skillet has to have started before
the fifties. It is old, the majestic, yes, old. So
(28:46):
I mean we had things, they just weren't prefab They
didn't look like trains necessarily, although some did or had
some qualities like that. They just didn't call them diners
down here because diners were Yankee.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly right.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Right.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Well, we can go ahead and talk about waffle House
because they kind of figure in. In the nineteen fifties,
these new places, these new chains started popping up that
you know, you may not call it a diner, but
something like Denny's opened in California in nineteen fifty three
originally Danny's Donuts and morphed into Denny's and Denny's and
(29:21):
Ihop which was in nineteen fifty eight, also in the
LA area. They're both essentially diners and even in kind
of how they look on the inside and the things
they serve and the spirit waffle house is a diner
like kind of full stop. They even I don't think
they're prefab but like I think opening a waffle house
(29:42):
is like this kit in a box built yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yeah, I mean, but they have like all of the
classic trappings of a diner. There's the kitchen area that's
separated by a counter that people sit at. There's servers
that come out from behind the counter to help the
people in the booths booths or booth seating is like
actually a diner innovation from way back, and you know,
there's a door that separates the booths that you come
(30:07):
in like this is a diner. It's a diying expensive
food exactly, yeah, exactly that can may or may not
give you dysentery.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
No, no, no, I love waffle house.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
If house the other day and it was not good.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
I did too, And that's the first time I've eaten
there in years. Where what did you have?
Speaker 1 (30:25):
And where did you go? And why I was on
in Smyrna. Okay, I went because I hadn't been in
a while, and I was craving scattered and covered hash browns, okay,
And it was just gross. I don't know if it
was I've changed or this particular waffle house was bad,
I don't know, but it was a gross experience for
(30:48):
men like gross.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Well, I'm sorry to hear that, because I think one
thing waffle house is known for is their remarkable consistency
of like the food is kind of exactly the same
at all of them.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Okay, sorry, I don't I don't mean the food. The
food was generally fine. I mean like watching a cook
drop something on the floor and just pick it up
and use it to stuff like that. Really, there was
a seat that had inexplicably had like a trash bag
over it and some tape at the counter, like it
was just a gross scene. It had like all waffle
(31:19):
houses had that just structural grease that has never been cleaned,
that is holding the place together like glue, And for
some reason this one was just grosser than the normal
waffle houses grease structure all.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Right, Well, I had a great experience. Actually went to
waffle House with our friend John Hodgman.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Oh yeah, where'd you go?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Well, somehow, and this might chock some people who know
about John, I managed to get him to the camp
and he went camping, yeah, before his Atlanta show. And
then after the camp, on the way back to Atlanta,
we stopped at one in you know, North Georgia. So
that's like a more real deal experienced waffle house then
(32:04):
you could probably imagine.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
I think they probably keep theirs cleaner because there are
very few places to eat out, so they kind of
take pride in what they got.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Yeah, it was good. I had an egg sandwich and
some hash Browns and John and I splittle country Ham.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Oh boy, it was good. You were being bad.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
But boy, I used to go there a lot late
night in college. That was the thing.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yeah. No, I loved waffle House in high school. I
always has a place in my heart. I was just
very disappointed that, well that's why you went there. It's
entirely possible that I have become more of a germophobe
than I was in high school.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I think you and I should hit one up at
some point.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
But if I'm just sitting there and like, don't touch anything. Well, no,
it's me. You can be the gauge of whether it's
me or not.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Just to put a button on this. The very first
waffle house you mentioned in nineteen fifty five that upened
in Avondale, Estates, which is just a few minutes from
where I live, and there is a restored a sort
of original waffle house. I guess it was the original
waffle house. They have restored as kind of a museum,
but I don't know if it's ever open. I think
(33:11):
you can do events there, but it's it's never opened,
so I'm not even sure what the deal is.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
That's like strange the world of coke having like the
coke fountains, but nothing comes out of them. So just
to button this whole thing up about like Denny's and
I hop in waffle House. Yeah, they were diners, but
they were diners that you knew what you were getting
no matter where you were in the country because they
were chains, and they really gave locally owned diners, like
(33:40):
the real deal diners a run for their money and
almost squished them out of existence. So too did fast
food chains that were coming up about the same time,
Southern California almost killed the diner. Essentially, is what we're
what we're saying by spitting out. I hop Denny's, fast
food stuff like McDonald's, and I think Taco Bell. But
(34:02):
thanks to that fifties nostalgia of the seventies, Yeah, like
Greece Happy Days, Shanna. No, yeah, exactly, Shanna. I can't
think of any other examples, but it was a big
deal back then. They loved the fifties. In the late seventies,
it managed to like rescue the diner and basically revive
it and keep it alive just enough so that you
(34:24):
could make a living again as a family, a Greek
family apparently owning a diner and just you know, cooking
great diner food.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Totally. Should we take a break?
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I think we should.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
All right, we'll call this the post waffle House break. Shit,
(35:08):
all right.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Now I can think about is setting waffle house right
in your mind again?
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Well we'll go. It's not like that was its last chance.
I won't be going back to that one again.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
But Okay, it sounded like you were kind of like,
I don't know, why would I even risk it again?
Speaker 1 (35:22):
No, No, I think it could be that location.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Okay, fantastic, that one's dead to you. We should go
to the one over near me where Kid Rock got
in a fistfight man that guy. Uh Oh. The other
thing we didn't mention about waffle House, which is they
are open twenty four to seven three sixty five and
FEMA actually uses what's called the waffle House Index, wherein
(35:48):
if there's a natural disaster in the area, if the
waffle house actually is closed, then they will say that
they were like even the waffle house is closed, which
means we're in real trouble.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yeah, Like things are really bad there because the waffle
does not close.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
I had a Thanksgiving there once when I was alone.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
How was it? You know? It was.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Fine and kind of fun and kitchy, but then also
a little lonely and sad. Yeah, as you would imagine that.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
But also it's like one of those situations where you
connect with the people that you're surrounded by, strangers that
you meet ay more than under normal circumstances. That can
be pretty gratifying in and of itself.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Oh yeah, I still keep in touch with with Butch
and Trucky and uh, kid Rock, flim Flam and Kid
Rock and all those people flim flam.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Huh, what's flimflam about?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Flim flam? He's he's a brick layer.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Oh okay, I know that guy.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
He's a good guy.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Did he go to Georgia stated?
Speaker 2 (36:45):
He lays a heck of.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
A brick too.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
I uh so. The the tie between the diner and
just sort of pop culture and politics is one that's
always been around, even back in the very beginning. Lvia
found this article from eighteen ninety six from the Boston
Morning Journal where they talked about it was a place
(37:10):
where the fashional gentleman could rub elbows with the homeless itinerant.
But you know, it was always just sort of like
this is authentic America where all kinds of people can
get together. And that is why it became a stop
for many politicians when they were in town to maybe
go to the local diner wherever they were, when they
stopped in a town when they were on the campaign trail.
(37:32):
But certainly some diners have distinguished themselves as you have
to come here basically if you're campaigning for office.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
It's interesting there's one in particular called the Red Arrow Diner.
It's in Manchester in New Hampshire and it was Bill
Clinton who put it on the map, at least the
campaign map. He apparently he lost pretty bad in Iowa.
I can't remember Tom Harkin, that's right, was one of
his who Tom Harkin. He was a senator from Iowa.
(38:02):
So he trounced Clinton and everybody else in Iowa at
the caucus. But Clinton made a huge comeback by getting
really like on the ground and shaking hands and kissing babies.
And one of the ways that he did that was
going to diners. And one of the diners that, for
some reason or another stuck was the Red Arrow Diner.
And it became tradition. Like when you go through New Hampshire,
(38:23):
if you're running for president in the United States, you
go to the Red Arrow Diner. You have a pressop there,
you go, meet a few people, you eat some pancakes
or something, and you leave. But you have to do it.
You can't not do it, which is pretty cool. But
the thing that surprised me is this actually goes a
little further back than nineteen ninety two is Jimmy Carter,
who first was like, man, I want to portray that
(38:46):
I'm going to the people. Where are the people, and
then he thought the diner, specifically the Chat and chew,
which is the worst name for any restaurant ever in
the history of civilization. I don't know if that's going
to track in Tunnel one to New York.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
It should be the chat then chew, right, or the
chew then chat. Don't do both of the same.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Thing, right, or maybe the chew quietly swallow And then
when you think of something interesting to say, chat.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I like that, knew better. Yeah that's good. Yeah, Jimmy Carter.
It's been a thing ever since then. Diners have always
popped up in pop culture. There's a few notable instances.
One of course, is the Edward Hopper painting from nineteen
forty two Nighthawks, which is that classic painting of the
diner on the corner. And you know, all kinds of
(39:36):
people have been painted into that painting since then.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Yeah. I had that poster the Boulevard of Broken Dreams.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Yeah, I was at Marilyn Monroe and James Dean.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yep, and Bogie and Elvis is behind the counter working
for some reason. Now, okay, I don't know why Bogeye
would be included in that. He was fine, He had
a gratefulfilling, nice life, no broken dreams, not one. From
what I understand.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
There was the movie Diner, of course, Barry Levinson's movie
from nineteen eighty two. Great movie set around these dudes
in nineteen fifty nine Baltimore and sort of that diner
culture of hanging out and you know, up to no goodness.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Apparently that that movie in particular, But I think Barry
Levinson's work in general inspired Quentin Tarantino. His whole banter
thing that he's so well known for. Apparently it comes
from Barry Levinson had no idea.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Old Tarantino has a lot of
diner stuff. The reservoir Dogs opening scene, yep, I don't
tip that whole classic scene.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
A lot of barely scripted banter in all of his.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Movies, yeah, which is heavily scripted.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
So god, that'd be so hard to do well. I mean, yeah,
Breton cap off to the actors in Tarantino movies who
can memorize that stuff and regurgitate it without making it
seem like it's win totally, you know.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Yeah. The great diner in pulp fiction, of course, is
the Hawthorne Grill in La which is now an AutoZone.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
That's sad. But what about the Marte Cafe in North Bend, Washington,
which stood in as the Double R Diner.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
In Twin Peaks Classic.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
It is a classic diner so much so that you're like,
that's kind of a creddy diner. Like that's how well
they nailed it.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Yeah, big time. I think they shot the pilot in
the actual North Bend's location and then they moved to
a sound stage for a lot of the actual show
and rebuilt that diner, but then went back to the
real diner for the movie Firewalk with Me, and I
believe it was partially burned down in two thousand and rebuilt,
(41:43):
but it didn't look the same. So in twenty seventeen,
when David Lynch came out with the new Twin Peaks,
they actually paid to restore that diner to its original
appearance so they could film there, which is awesome.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Yeah, just goes to show you production companies get stuff done.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Yeah, like when they rebuilt Avondale Mall near me because
Chuck Norris drove a pickup through it in Invasion USA.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
That's amazing. Yeah, there's one called Tom's, Well, Tom's Restaurant
I think it's just called Tom's. It's in Manhattan on Broadway,
and if you've ever watched Seinfeld, that's what they uses
the establishing shot for their Monks Coffee Shop, I think right. Yeah,
and the Suzanne Vegas song Tom's Diner is about Tom's
(42:30):
as well. Oh, Susan Mega, Yeah you remember that song?
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going to tell us a near worm.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Well I will, I will batty you. At the same time,
we can drive people crazy by me singing my name
is Luca. On top of no, you can't do it,
I will if you want. Okay, you ready, my name
is Luca. I live on the second floor. It definitely
makes Luca more upbeat.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
W Yeah, for sure, it's a it's not supposed to
be upbeat.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
For sure. We can mention cases because you are correct.
That is in uh Natic or I'm in Massachusetts. How
you pronounced Natick? Yeah, totally okay, And that's supposedly the
oldest diner in the United States. That's still a thing.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Yeah. It started out as like a lunch wagon, like
with a horse attached to it from eighteen ninety and
then it became one of those Worcester Lunch Car Company
models from nineteen twenty two, and I guess they bought
that and replaced the lunch Wagon with it in nineteen
twenty seven. It's been running ever since then. That's just amazing.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah. Absolutely, And we got to shout out New Jersey
because Jersey and when I lived there, there was a
kid from the South who who only knew waffle house.
Basically all I heard was diner this, and diner that.
You know, whenever people out, well, let's go to the diner.
Let's meet at the diner. I was like, what is
it with you people in diners? Because I didn't know
about this culture in the Northeast. And New Jersey is
(44:09):
I believe, still the leading state for the number of
diners today.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah. If you've ever watched Sopranos, let's set in New
Jersey and they're in diners like all the time.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yeah, six hundred of the roughly two thousand diners still around,
as according to Smithsonian Magazine, are in New Jersey. And
maybe the Jerio Mahoney company being based there had something
to do with that, but they love their diners in Jersey.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Well, there you go, Jersey. This episode was for you.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Can you get anything else? Nah, I don't either. Since
Chuck said Nan, I said, I don't either. That unlocked
listener mail.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Okay, I'm gonna call this buttons buttons buttons. We heard
from a lot of people about why buttons are for
traditionally for a man's garment and a woman's garment on
different sides. I had heard this, but I forgot Okay,
so thanks to everyone who emailed in. But we're going
with Sheila from Decatur, Georgia, because Sheila's right down the
(45:12):
street to as a long time Atlanta and uga Alum.
I love your show, guys, especially when you reference Atlanta
and Athens go Dogs. Regarding your mention of buttons on
the opposite side, women's clothes have traditionally been made with
enclosures on the opposite of men's because of upper class
royal women having assistants when getting dressed. Therefore, and people
(45:36):
being traditionally or not traditionally but predominantly right handed. Therefore,
the buttons would be fastened by someone on the other
side of the person wearing the clothes. I guess with
the assumption that actually working the button with your right
hand is more intuitive and easier than your left hand,
your non dominant hand, so more right handed people. Means
(45:57):
men were dressing themselves with a button the right and
women were dressed by other women with their buttons on
the left.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
That's fascinating. Who is that? Who wrote that? Suzanne Vega?
Speaker 2 (46:09):
That was Susanna, That was Shila, Chila Vegas, Susanne's sister.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Thanks a lot, Sheila. We appreciate that from you, and
a lot of people wrote in, So yeah, thank you
to everybody like you said. And if you want to
be like Shila and the whole gang and write to
us and tell us something interesting that we didn't know,
you can do it via email, send it off to
stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, everybody get this. Chuck and I will be back
on tour this January out in the Pacific Northwest. On
the twenty fourth of January, we'll be in Seattle at
the Paramount Theater and the next day, January twenty fifth,
will be in Portland, Oregon at our beloved Revolution Hall.
You can get tickets on pre sale right now use
our offer code sysk live or the promoter's offer code
(00:21):
true West, and then general sale tickets start Friday. We'll
see you guys in January.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's
Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is Stuff you
should Know, the Greasiest of the Greasy Spoons edition.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
That's right. May I have a moment at the top
here to speak to our layoff of last week that
no one even knows because the Stuff you should listener
were right on time.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I'll step aside into the wings as the spotlight zero's
in on you. Well.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
First of all, I just wanted to thank everybody. My
my we lost our dog, Charlie. We had to put
our eldest Charlie to sleep last week, and so I
wanted to say thank you to all the people on
Instagram who were so kind, many many hundreds of people
commenting and many many thousands of people parting, and that always,
(01:27):
you know, helps out. But this was a tough one.
You know, we've lost five animals now since stuff you
should know launched, which is remarkable. Don't you think you
have a huge bummer, huge bummer. But Charlie, it was rough.
This was Ruby's first loss, and she insisted on being there,
(01:49):
so we kept her out of school and the vet
comes out of our house and Ruby was there for
the whole thing and she did you know, it was
devis but she did great and many many lessons were learned.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Man, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Chuck, Yeah, she did a good job. It was yeah.
I mean they're all very hard always, but I think
maybe being Ruby's first made it a little tougher even
she had. I think I've been saying it this way,
which is when you have an eight year old, you
hear all different kinds of cries out of your kid,
(02:26):
and they all have an agenda, usually right like I
didn't get this, or I wanted that, or I'm hungry,
or I got hurt or whatever, like they all have
like a different sound and a different meaning, but this
one was brand new, and this was a cry of
pure heartbreak and it was awful. So it sounded different
(02:50):
and it was not something I want to hear again
anytime soon. I had no agenda attached to it, and
then I think that's what part of the awfulness was.
It was just just heartbreak. So it was rough. We
got through it. And I know I told you guys
this personally, but I want like the world to know
(03:11):
how amazing you and Jerry are for basically just saying
like this. We record on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Two hours
before we were set to record is when we decided
to do it, like we got to do this tomorrow.
So I was clearly not going to record then, and
then we did it Wednesday, and Thursday rolls around and
(03:31):
I still was in no shape to do it, and
this screwed up our schedule, and you guys were just
really supportive, like family is. So I want everyone to
understand that.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
You got it. Of course we wouldn't be any other
way because we are family.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
I appreciate that. And now we are in phase three.
The decision is phase one, which is awful doing it
is Phase two and now the not thereness is the
extended just sort of muscle memory of all the you know,
the routines that are built into your life with a
pet that all of a sudden you go to do
(04:06):
and it's not happening. So adjusting to that.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
I was holding it okay for phase one and two,
but you just got me with phase three.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, it's it's the little things like, oh, Charlie licks
the cats spoon, so when you do the cat's meal,
you go your body still goes to put the spoon down, stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Like that, and then you just have to look at
yourself and sob well you do.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
That's exactly right. I've been eating a lot of cat food.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
That's gotta make the whole thing that much worse too.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I have been sick to my stomach, but it's pretty tasty.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Well on behalf of everybody who knows and loves you,
or even people who don't like you. I'm very sorry
that you guys could go through that. That's an awful thing.
And I can't even make myself get into your shoes.
I won't do it, So don't I am You.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Can take the mon you can take the month off
one day when when you need to.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah, I don't want to talk about that.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Now you don't have to, So okay, well, welcome back.
Now let's talk about diners.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
I think it's good we're easing into diners like it's
a warm bath, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, because diners, agreed,
maybe the easiest topic we've ever done in our entire lives.
I cannot think of an easier one, can you.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Well. I mean I think we've had a lot of
stuff that's easy, all right, Like like any of the
toy episodes stuff like that is all easy.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Uh yeah, yeah, I guess you're right. But this one,
I don't know. For some reason, it just struck me
as easy. It has like a lot of like a
narrative arc. It has overlooked pop culture here there peppering
with it. It's got some neat little just kind of
pull points bullet points that we can go. I just
like it. It's just easy. And thanks to Olivia for helping
(05:53):
us with it.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah. Oh, and speaking of Livia, this turned out to
be a great assignment because Livia is sibling in law
runs a diner. Ember is o, Livia's sibling in law,
and they restored not only a diner, but they restored
the Wooster lunch car number seven sixty five man from
(06:15):
all the way back in nineteen thirty nine. And that
will all make sense what that is shortly, Yeah, it'll
be and super impressive. But this is in Moran. It's
the Moran Square Diner in Fitchburg, Massachusetts. And this thing
is awesome and the genuine article, and they serve you know,
like a diner food but updated and not fancy. But
(06:38):
you know, it's just sort of a more modern telling,
like there's some vegan options and from local farms, just
sort of elevated diner food. Right, So guys, say hi
to Ember.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Yeah, Hey, Ember and the diner. I know we're all
be eating next time. I'm in Fitchburg.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I know where's Pitchburg.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
I don't know, But what's the name of it? Again?
Tell everybody so they can.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Go there in the square or for all I know,
it's the Moran Square Diner. Mrin.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Okay, that's great. Yeah, thanks to Livia for helping us
with this one. Thanks to her family members for keeping
the diner thing going. And really, chuck if you want
to thank anybody, I feel like we have to thank
Walter Scott.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
So Walter Scott. The reason we're thanking him is he
is a printer for Providence, Rhode Island. And this was
at the time where people who were in one profession
could break into completely other professions. It's just what they
did back then in the.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Nineteenth century, not like today.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
No, not like today. You like, keep your head down
and stay in your lane. That's what you do, that's right.
So Walter Scott decided that there was a whole market
that was being missed. That there were people who worked
the late shift and when they were either going into
or coming off of that shift, the restaurants weren't open.
There was nowhere for them to get food. They didn't
(07:58):
have cafeterias that were They were totally esked, you know.
So he said, I'm going to start selling food to
these people, and the best way to do that is
to just sell it out of a horse and carriage.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Basically, yeah, which was essentially a food truck.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
They called him lunch Wagons and he got copped pretty
quick or imitated, I guess, because people, you know, back then,
ingenuity and starting a new business was all the rage.
So it's a guy named Sam Jones who said, all right,
I'm going to start up my own late night food
truck wagon. I'm going to name it the Owl. It's
(08:37):
going to be in what's the Mass And.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Walter Scott was like, oh, I hadn't thought of naming it.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah, that's a pretty good name too for a late
night eatery, for sure. And that was imitated and people,
you know, it was a bible business all of a sudden.
Jones expanded his own enterprise in eighteen eighty seven by saying, hey,
let's go ahead and make one of these that actually
has a kitchen and maybe a few spots at a
counter where you can eat. No servers yet at this point,
(09:04):
it's just like people got their food through a window.
And then he started adding more and more carts, and
then he moved to Springfield, added more carts there, and
it was a legit business at that point.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah. So between eighteen seventy two and by eighteen ninety one,
the concept had been born, added upon and then was
patented in eighteen ninety one by a guy named Charles Palmer,
and Charles Palmer bought Sam Jones's wooster setup. When Sam
Jones moved to Springfield, and he's the one who patented it.
He said, I don't know why you didn't do this,
(09:39):
but I'm going to patent it. And his design was
extremely simple, but he added a counter, so now there
was a separation between the kitchen and where you sat
inside the dining area like in the actual diner. He
added those windows, or at least he patented those windows
that you handed food to other people who were just
taking it to go. Just the barest minimum of an idea.
(10:04):
He went and patented it. But it eventually became Diners.
And what's interesting is the reason it became Diners was
not from like some normal evolution. It was from social
pressures instead that basically took these mobile food trucks and said, hey,
take the wheels off of those things. Guys.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah. Yeah, Well what happened was, you know, this was
such a viable business model for people opening these And
this is what happens a lot of times with early
sort of innovations is then you innovate around it. So
companies that manufactured like buildings and things and as you'll
(10:42):
see railroad cars, they saw that people were doing this
in little structures, and they said, well, we're going to
start manufacturing these little food wagons and just selling them
to people, these boxes on wheels with little kitchens. Yeah,
and maybe we'll make them kind of cool looking on
the outside and paint them so they're sthetically pleasing, and
we can ship them. We can ship them on trains.
(11:04):
They're small enough at this point where you can put
them on a truck if you need to. And there
were three big builders of these at the time. The
Wooster Lunch Car and Carriage Car and Carriage Manufacturing Company
this is a Massachusetts and then there was one in
New Jersey called the Jerry O. Mahoney Company, and then
the PJ. Tyranny Company in New York building these sort
(11:25):
of made to order little restaurants that you can just
PLoP down and start working on.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah, And like you said, the Marin Square Diner Olivia's
Relatives Diner in Fitchburg, they redid or refurbished a Worcester
Lunch Car and Carriage Manufacturing Company prefab.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah, and number seven sixty five.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, there are some still around, not just from that company,
but it seems like there's a lot of Jerry o'
mahoney's still around and in operation. Like they built these
things solid. As a matter of fact, one of them,
I think it might have been PJ. Tierney said, if
there's something wrong with it, or your thing starts coming apart,
put it back on a train, ship it to us.
We'll tune it up and send it back to you,
(12:07):
which I mean, and then he was like, nobody's going
to do it, No, exactly, Like I can't imagine anyone
took them up on it. I mean, what a pain
that would be. But it kind of goes to show
like they stood behind their caftsmanship and just the fact
that these things have been around for one hundred years.
Some of them haven't even been refurbished. Yeah, that you know,
they did a good job making. I'm I guess, is
(12:28):
what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah. Absolutely. And then kind of what you were talking
about in the early twentieth century, you know, you start
parking these lunch wagons everywhere, a couple of things are
going to happen. Restaurants nearby are going to say, hey,
wait a minute, what the heck? These people can just
move all over town and serve wherever they want. That's
no good for us, and then people that lived in
(12:51):
these towns and some of them they're like, I don't
like these things moving all over the place and parking
on the street. So they just started to park it
where they were and just serve food from one place.
And in nineteen thirteen, with the Jerry o' mahoney company,
they started producing sort of the same thing, a prefab restaurant,
(13:13):
but this time they were made to just sit there.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Right. They were about twenty six feet long, which is
really specific.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Right, Yeah, it was very specific.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
And I think Jerry o' mahoney, I think it was no.
Patrick Tierney was the one who took this idea when
they started making them stationary, and it was like, let's
dress these up a little bit. So like if you
look at some of the old ones that are still around,
like they have like handlaid tile, the wood sometimes has
like carvings in it. They're pretty neat. They're very cool
(13:47):
look and they look super nineteen twenties. Even. I think
there's one called Casey's. I can't remember where it is.
I think it'll come up later. Where like that. The
light fixtures are original to it too. But this whole
thing was like it was a diner that it came
to you, the diner owner, on a train car and
then was taken to your location and set up and
you would hook water up to it and gas up
(14:08):
to it, bring in your appliances and just open your
doors and start serving hash browns.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
I guess, or at the very least hash.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, that's how you made your initial money, I think.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
So the deal with why they're called diners is very
simple is because they were shipped on these trains. In
order to fit on the trains, they were shaped like
railroad cars and they essentially were modeled after railroad dining cars.
So they called them diners like the diner car on
a train, and they, you know, were sort of smoothly
(14:47):
curved for aerodynamics, and like you said, Tierney came along
and added some like chrome and this is in the
nineteen thirties when that Art Deco thing was happening. And
so that's why you know the diners, the sort of
the class diner that you think of has that chrome
look and neon and these padded benches and built in
boosts is all modeled after these cool trains, and they're
(15:10):
dining cars at the time.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
If I remember correctly from our Googie episode though that
streamline modern look, yeah that you think of with the
classic diner that was modeled on the trains of the time.
I think the trains were actually modeled on ships. I
think the ships were the ones that originally, oh really
had that look. Yeah, and then it was taken from
(15:32):
that for buildings and trains and diners eventually.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah. And you may have been thinking of Mickey's because
Libya listed Mickey's Diner in Saint Paul, Minnesota is one
of the O Mahoney ones, And just do yourself a
favor and look this thing up at some point if
you're listening, because the Mickeys Diner in Saint Paul is
beautiful and gorgeous and a kind of a perfect quintessential
(15:57):
example of these shipped pre ab restaurants.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
I think I think the one I'm talking about is
Casey's Diner and Natick Okay, I think that's the one.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
You're all gorgeous though.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
They are, and that's the one that still has like
Handley tile and it looks like the original like light
fixtures and all that. There's still some pea in the
toilet from the very first customer, like it is authentic.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Should we take a break?
Speaker 1 (16:25):
I think so?
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Now, all right, somebody at Casey's needs to instagrab that
toilet and we'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
So we have like a oh, we're back by the way, Chuck,
just stuy. I know it's been a minute since we recorded.
But the kind of view that we have of diners
today is set in time, as we'll see, and it's
set in a certain period of time. But prior to that,
there was a pretty different view of diners, and it
(17:19):
was that it was like basically a working man's place
to get grub, and that very much grew out of
where diners originated. They served food grub to working men,
and you didn't have to basically be particularly genteel or
mannerly to go to a diner. So diners started to
(17:41):
get reputations as places where, you know, if you're a
middle class man or a woman of any kind, you
would probably steer clear of diners. Up until about World
War two, that's the reputation that they had. Even as
cool as they looked, you didn't really go there unless
you were like a blue collar dude. Essentially, there were,
(18:01):
of course, people who would kind of break custom and go.
But for the most part, that's kind of what they
regarded as that kind of place like a Dave and
Busters today.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Right, you know my beef with Dave and Busters is
when was the last time you went in one? Or
have you ever?
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Oh? I have, it's been a really long time.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
There aren't enough just regular arcade games. I think it's
weird now like they have it. Yeah, they'll have like
a pac Man, but it's on a fifteen foot screen.
They just need an area, you know, a little bit
for the for our generation who are taking children and
stuff to where you know, dad wants to play a
little galaga and dad can't.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, I'm totally with you, man.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Anyway, kids love them. They don't know what a galagh is.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
No, they're done.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
So the menus at this time were not the most expansive.
I know these days are kind of known like you
go into a good Greek diner and there's like nine
pages of things. You'd get a pot roast, or you
can get an omelet. But back then it was kind
of grab and go, or you would eat kind of
quick because you got to get back to your shift,
(19:14):
or if you didn't have to get back to your shift.
You just ate and kind of hung around and maybe
gambled a little bit or something like that.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
It was like the local diner. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Probably it was like you know what you would imagine,
like eggs and you know, stuff like that. It's real satisfying,
maybe a sandwich, but pretty limited. They were generally owned
and frequented at the time by second generation, maybe first
generation European immigrants. So you might also find some sort
of local to their place in Europe stuff like you
(19:46):
might find spaghetti or a goulash or something like that,
along with some American style stuff.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah. So the fact that you can find the best
bakleva in America at diners is it follows in that
tradition because so many diners are owned by Greek immigrant families.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah, well, should we go ahead and talk about that?
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah? Why not? Because apparently there was a point in time,
if it's not still going on, where Greek immigrants basically
ran the show as far as diners went in the
entire United States.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, I think the Livia found one source that said
ninety percent of diner owners in the US were Greek,
and not only that, they were from the island of
Carpathos or Carpathos. I'm not sure that they pronounced it.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I'm going with Carpathos Carpathos.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
What I say, Pathos Carpathos.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
I think that's where Balki came from. Uh.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
And there were a couple of waves of these immigrations
the early twentieth century. They would own coffee shops and
Greek neighborhoods. But the diners that we're thinking of today
happened after an influx of Greek immigrants in nineteen sixty five.
And like a lot of businesses is sort of where
(21:01):
you might think, like, wait, it seems like a lot
of people from this country run this kind of business.
It's because they come here, they run it. Their family
works there, and then the son or daughter maybe splinters
often opens one and some of their family might come
over and cousins and work there, right, And it's just
it's a family business, and it expands in such a
way where all of a sudden, ninety percent of them
(21:23):
are Greek diners.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah. It also explains that those coffee cups that were
huge in the late twentieth century in New York that
were blue with white lettering and kind of like a
classic Greek style because the Greek's owned the diners. It's
just as simple as that, which I'd know the Broadway
diner that used to be here in Atlanta that was
(21:44):
definitely owned by Greek people. There's one on not Holcombe Bridge.
What's the other bridge that's done off of Piedmont that
Cheshire Bridge. I can't remember the name of that diner,
but that's owned by Greek people. These are like, I
know what you mean, quality diners too, by the way,
but I don't think I've been in a diner that
didn't at least show its Greek roots by offering like
(22:09):
baclava or euros or something like that. And maybe even
my life, I don't think I've been in a diner
that wasn't a chain, that wasn't owned clearly by a
Greek family. Yeah, so at that ninety percent checks out,
I guess, is what I'm trying to say. Anecdotally, at
least I agree.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
So post World War Two, we kind of brought you
up to World War two and what it was like.
WW two brought all kinds of changes to America, a
couple of which were really important as far as diners
were concerned. One was people, you know, that was sort
of an economic boom, so people had a little bit
more money to eat out at restaurants, which wasn't a
(22:49):
huge thing prior to that. And the other thing that
happened was suburbia kind of started happening, which included one,
families moving to suburbia and two big you know, facilities
and factories and plants in suburbia. But they had their
own cafeterias, right, so their markets were sort of declining
(23:11):
in one way. But at the same time, these middle
class families started coming out and they wanted to eat
in these diners, and so they made changes to sort
of accommodate for that.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yeah, they were so lucky because their market just bottomed
out like almost overnight after the war. And the fact
that they were able to just kind of adapt and
change their whole jam and be successful again, that's hats
off to them. But the way that they were able
to kind of find another market was that those families
that had more money to eat out. And interestingly, I
(23:43):
hadn't thought about this, but a lot of women entered
the workforce for the first time in World War two,
and after the war, a lot of them stayed in
the workforce like this. This custom had been broken, and
there was a new social acceptance of women working. It
was more socially accepted than it was before. And if
you're working every day, you probably don't want to cook
every day. So now not only does your family have
(24:06):
the money to go eat out, you have a great
incentive to go eat out if you're the mom too, like,
let's go eat out somewhere. But you don't want to
spend all of your money every time you go out.
So diners kind of moved to the suburbs and said
to and open their doors, and those families with the
little extra money and working moms came to eat there.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
That's right. And I'm gonna go ahead and stop people
emailing to say, Josh, you missed a great joke opportunity.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Oh what was it?
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Well, when you said hats off, you probably should have said,
my fez is off to you?
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Where feeses increase?
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Isn't it Greek?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
No, that's Northern African, like Morocca, Moroccan or something or Tunisian. Okay,
I think you're thinking of Shriners, and there may be
some Greek Shriners. I'm not sure. But in Greece they
wear those little kind of sailors caps, almost like a sailor.
It's a cruss between a newsboy cap and a cap
captain's cap. Okay, do you know what I'm talking about?
(25:04):
Look up Greek Greek cap?
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Well you know what, I just looked up Fez's Moroccan.
But it's actually ancient Greek in origin.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
That seems like a pretty wild technicality if you.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Ask me, it is because it is probably not associate
with Greece.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
But look right, my Greek cap. You'll know exactly what
I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Well, wait, but I bet there's a name for it, right,
the Greek cap. It doesn't have a I don't know,
Oh yeah, like a Greek fisherman's cap.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yes, exactly, that's exactly what I mean. That's what you
would find somebody wearing it a diner who worked there.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, a skipper cap or a Breton cap.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Okay, so there you go. So I tip my Breton cap.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Where were we? Oh, we were talking about women all
of a sudden, being like, hey, I don't have to
cook all these meals. That's great, right.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
And then the diners moved to the suburbs and found
like a whole new market. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
And the other thing that they did to help sort of,
you know, they kind of cleaned up their act a
little bit, yeah, and said listen to you guys, maybe
don't gamble. Inside the restaurant, they started all of a
sudden there were servers, Like they wanted to make it
a more you know, full restaurant kind of experience, so
you don't even have to get up and go get
(26:15):
the plates of food. Now we're going to have people
serving them to you, yeah, domesticate them. And and teenagers
all of a sudden it was like, hey, we can
go hang out of the diner after school, or like
these things are open light at night. If we're up
to no good, we can go buy the diner and
you know and pour a little whiskey into our soda pop.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
So Also, and another thing that domesticated the those diners
was that those servers were in large part women. The
new servers that have been brought on board were women,
and that signaled to families like, hey, this is a
safe place. Like if I'm safe to work here, you're
safe to eat here. Hun right, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah, they were to say, yeah, uh, these were still
prefab restaurants for the most part, even post war, but
they added more windows, they added like sort of that
pastel color theme that you see in diners came along then, yes,
sometimes mirrored ceilings, yeah, tile for mica counters. That's that
(27:16):
nineteen fifties kind of look because they had to all
of a sudden, you know, cars were resuming by in
the road and they had to get people's attention to
stop and eat. So the diners had to look you know, cooler.
And that's kind of where that Googi thing come in.
You might have a cool Googi sign, so a car
would go, ah, I got to stop there, right.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
So the image that you have of diners, like popular
diners that you see in like a movie like Greece
or something like that, or Happy Days or whatever that was.
It solidified to this era, the suburban post World War
two diners. The image that we have of diners is
like the classic thing.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah, still mainly in Northeast affair, but starting around the
fifties and into the sixties is when they tried to
expect and west and South and it didn't go quite
like it did in the Northeast. In the South, I
think people associated diners with the Northeast.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
And the War of Northern Aggression, I think still too.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Well sure, and just there was you know, in the
South at the time, there were just a lot of
things where it was like, oh, you know, that's how
the Northerners do it, and we don't do things that way,
so that we didn't have diners down here like they
did up there.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
No, not in classic style, but diners in everything but
name were here pretty early on. I think waffle House
started in nineteen fifty five, and I'm sure there were
diners that, like silver Skillet has to have started before
the fifties. It is old, the majestic, yes, old. So
(28:46):
I mean we had things, they just weren't prefab They
didn't look like trains necessarily, although some did or had
some qualities like that. They just didn't call them diners
down here because diners were Yankee.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly right.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Right.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Well, we can go ahead and talk about waffle House
because they kind of figure in. In the nineteen fifties,
these new places, these new chains started popping up that
you know, you may not call it a diner, but
something like Denny's opened in California in nineteen fifty three
originally Danny's Donuts and morphed into Denny's and Denny's and
(29:21):
Ihop which was in nineteen fifty eight, also in the
LA area. They're both essentially diners and even in kind
of how they look on the inside and the things
they serve and the spirit waffle house is a diner
like kind of full stop. They even I don't think
they're prefab but like I think opening a waffle house
(29:42):
is like this kit in a box built yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yeah, I mean, but they have like all of the
classic trappings of a diner. There's the kitchen area that's
separated by a counter that people sit at. There's servers
that come out from behind the counter to help the
people in the booths booths or booth seating is like
actually a diner innovation from way back, and you know,
there's a door that separates the booths that you come
(30:07):
in like this is a diner. It's a diying expensive
food exactly, yeah, exactly that can may or may not
give you dysentery.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
No, no, no, I love waffle house.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
If house the other day and it was not good.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
I did too, And that's the first time I've eaten
there in years. Where what did you have?
Speaker 1 (30:25):
And where did you go? And why I was on
in Smyrna. Okay, I went because I hadn't been in
a while, and I was craving scattered and covered hash browns, okay,
And it was just gross. I don't know if it
was I've changed or this particular waffle house was bad,
I don't know, but it was a gross experience for
(30:48):
men like gross.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Well, I'm sorry to hear that, because I think one
thing waffle house is known for is their remarkable consistency
of like the food is kind of exactly the same
at all of them.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Okay, sorry, I don't I don't mean the food. The
food was generally fine. I mean like watching a cook
drop something on the floor and just pick it up
and use it to stuff like that. Really, there was
a seat that had inexplicably had like a trash bag
over it and some tape at the counter, like it
was just a gross scene. It had like all waffle
(31:19):
houses had that just structural grease that has never been cleaned,
that is holding the place together like glue, And for
some reason this one was just grosser than the normal
waffle houses grease structure all.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Right, Well, I had a great experience. Actually went to
waffle House with our friend John Hodgman.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Oh yeah, where'd you go?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Well, somehow, and this might chock some people who know
about John, I managed to get him to the camp
and he went camping, yeah, before his Atlanta show. And
then after the camp, on the way back to Atlanta,
we stopped at one in you know, North Georgia. So
that's like a more real deal experienced waffle house then
(32:04):
you could probably imagine.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
I think they probably keep theirs cleaner because there are
very few places to eat out, so they kind of
take pride in what they got.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Yeah, it was good. I had an egg sandwich and
some hash Browns and John and I splittle country Ham.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Oh boy, it was good. You were being bad.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
But boy, I used to go there a lot late
night in college. That was the thing.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yeah. No, I loved waffle House in high school. I
always has a place in my heart. I was just
very disappointed that, well that's why you went there. It's
entirely possible that I have become more of a germophobe
than I was in high school.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
I think you and I should hit one up at
some point.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
But if I'm just sitting there and like, don't touch anything. Well, no,
it's me. You can be the gauge of whether it's
me or not.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Just to put a button on this. The very first
waffle house you mentioned in nineteen fifty five that upened
in Avondale, Estates, which is just a few minutes from
where I live, and there is a restored a sort
of original waffle house. I guess it was the original
waffle house. They have restored as kind of a museum,
but I don't know if it's ever open. I think
(33:11):
you can do events there, but it's it's never opened,
so I'm not even sure what the deal is.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
That's like strange the world of coke having like the
coke fountains, but nothing comes out of them. So just
to button this whole thing up about like Denny's and
I hop in waffle House. Yeah, they were diners, but
they were diners that you knew what you were getting
no matter where you were in the country because they
were chains, and they really gave locally owned diners, like
(33:40):
the real deal diners a run for their money and
almost squished them out of existence. So too did fast
food chains that were coming up about the same time,
Southern California almost killed the diner. Essentially, is what we're
what we're saying by spitting out. I hop Denny's, fast
food stuff like McDonald's, and I think Taco Bell. But
(34:02):
thanks to that fifties nostalgia of the seventies, Yeah, like
Greece Happy Days, Shanna. No, yeah, exactly, Shanna. I can't
think of any other examples, but it was a big
deal back then. They loved the fifties. In the late seventies,
it managed to like rescue the diner and basically revive
it and keep it alive just enough so that you
(34:24):
could make a living again as a family, a Greek
family apparently owning a diner and just you know, cooking
great diner food.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Totally. Should we take a break?
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I think we should.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
All right, we'll call this the post waffle House break. Shit,
(35:08):
all right.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Now I can think about is setting waffle house right
in your mind again?
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Well we'll go. It's not like that was its last chance.
I won't be going back to that one again.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
But Okay, it sounded like you were kind of like,
I don't know, why would I even risk it again?
Speaker 1 (35:22):
No, No, I think it could be that location.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Okay, fantastic, that one's dead to you. We should go
to the one over near me where Kid Rock got
in a fistfight man that guy. Uh Oh. The other
thing we didn't mention about waffle House, which is they
are open twenty four to seven three sixty five and
FEMA actually uses what's called the waffle House Index, wherein
(35:48):
if there's a natural disaster in the area, if the
waffle house actually is closed, then they will say that
they were like even the waffle house is closed, which
means we're in real trouble.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yeah, Like things are really bad there because the waffle
does not close.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
I had a Thanksgiving there once when I was alone.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
How was it? You know? It was.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Fine and kind of fun and kitchy, but then also
a little lonely and sad. Yeah, as you would imagine that.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
But also it's like one of those situations where you
connect with the people that you're surrounded by, strangers that
you meet ay more than under normal circumstances. That can
be pretty gratifying in and of itself.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Oh yeah, I still keep in touch with with Butch
and Trucky and uh, kid Rock, flim Flam and Kid
Rock and all those people flim flam.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Huh, what's flimflam about?
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Flim flam? He's he's a brick layer.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Oh okay, I know that guy.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
He's a good guy.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Did he go to Georgia stated?
Speaker 2 (36:45):
He lays a heck of.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
A brick too.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
I uh so. The the tie between the diner and
just sort of pop culture and politics is one that's
always been around, even back in the very beginning. Lvia
found this article from eighteen ninety six from the Boston
Morning Journal where they talked about it was a place
(37:10):
where the fashional gentleman could rub elbows with the homeless itinerant.
But you know, it was always just sort of like
this is authentic America where all kinds of people can
get together. And that is why it became a stop
for many politicians when they were in town to maybe
go to the local diner wherever they were, when they
stopped in a town when they were on the campaign trail.
(37:32):
But certainly some diners have distinguished themselves as you have
to come here basically if you're campaigning for office.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
It's interesting there's one in particular called the Red Arrow Diner.
It's in Manchester in New Hampshire and it was Bill
Clinton who put it on the map, at least the
campaign map. He apparently he lost pretty bad in Iowa.
I can't remember Tom Harkin, that's right, was one of
his who Tom Harkin. He was a senator from Iowa.
(38:02):
So he trounced Clinton and everybody else in Iowa at
the caucus. But Clinton made a huge comeback by getting
really like on the ground and shaking hands and kissing babies.
And one of the ways that he did that was
going to diners. And one of the diners that, for
some reason or another stuck was the Red Arrow Diner.
And it became tradition. Like when you go through New Hampshire,
(38:23):
if you're running for president in the United States, you
go to the Red Arrow Diner. You have a pressop there,
you go, meet a few people, you eat some pancakes
or something, and you leave. But you have to do it.
You can't not do it, which is pretty cool. But
the thing that surprised me is this actually goes a
little further back than nineteen ninety two is Jimmy Carter,
who first was like, man, I want to portray that
(38:46):
I'm going to the people. Where are the people, and
then he thought the diner, specifically the Chat and chew,
which is the worst name for any restaurant ever in
the history of civilization. I don't know if that's going
to track in Tunnel one to New York.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
It should be the chat then chew, right, or the
chew then chat. Don't do both of the same.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Thing, right, or maybe the chew quietly swallow And then
when you think of something interesting to say, chat.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I like that, knew better. Yeah that's good. Yeah, Jimmy Carter.
It's been a thing ever since then. Diners have always
popped up in pop culture. There's a few notable instances.
One of course, is the Edward Hopper painting from nineteen
forty two Nighthawks, which is that classic painting of the
diner on the corner. And you know, all kinds of
(39:36):
people have been painted into that painting since then.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Yeah. I had that poster the Boulevard of Broken Dreams.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Yeah, I was at Marilyn Monroe and James Dean.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yep, and Bogie and Elvis is behind the counter working
for some reason. Now, okay, I don't know why Bogeye
would be included in that. He was fine, He had
a gratefulfilling, nice life, no broken dreams, not one. From
what I understand.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
There was the movie Diner, of course, Barry Levinson's movie
from nineteen eighty two. Great movie set around these dudes
in nineteen fifty nine Baltimore and sort of that diner
culture of hanging out and you know, up to no goodness.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Apparently that that movie in particular, But I think Barry
Levinson's work in general inspired Quentin Tarantino. His whole banter
thing that he's so well known for. Apparently it comes
from Barry Levinson had no idea.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Old Tarantino has a lot of
diner stuff. The reservoir Dogs opening scene, yep, I don't
tip that whole classic scene.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
A lot of barely scripted banter in all of his.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
Movies, yeah, which is heavily scripted.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
So god, that'd be so hard to do well. I mean, yeah,
Breton cap off to the actors in Tarantino movies who
can memorize that stuff and regurgitate it without making it
seem like it's win totally, you know.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
Yeah. The great diner in pulp fiction, of course, is
the Hawthorne Grill in La which is now an AutoZone.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
That's sad. But what about the Marte Cafe in North Bend, Washington,
which stood in as the Double R Diner.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
In Twin Peaks Classic.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
It is a classic diner so much so that you're like,
that's kind of a creddy diner. Like that's how well
they nailed it.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Yeah, big time. I think they shot the pilot in
the actual North Bend's location and then they moved to
a sound stage for a lot of the actual show
and rebuilt that diner, but then went back to the
real diner for the movie Firewalk with Me, and I
believe it was partially burned down in two thousand and rebuilt,
(41:43):
but it didn't look the same. So in twenty seventeen,
when David Lynch came out with the new Twin Peaks,
they actually paid to restore that diner to its original
appearance so they could film there, which is awesome.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Yeah, just goes to show you production companies get stuff done.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Yeah, like when they rebuilt Avondale Mall near me because
Chuck Norris drove a pickup through it in Invasion USA.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
That's amazing. Yeah, there's one called Tom's, Well, Tom's Restaurant
I think it's just called Tom's. It's in Manhattan on Broadway,
and if you've ever watched Seinfeld, that's what they uses
the establishing shot for their Monks Coffee Shop, I think right. Yeah,
and the Suzanne Vegas song Tom's Diner is about Tom's
(42:30):
as well. Oh, Susan Mega, Yeah you remember that song?
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going to tell us a near worm.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Well I will, I will batty you. At the same time,
we can drive people crazy by me singing my name
is Luca. On top of no, you can't do it,
I will if you want. Okay, you ready, my name
is Luca. I live on the second floor. It definitely
makes Luca more upbeat.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
W Yeah, for sure, it's a it's not supposed to
be upbeat.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
For sure. We can mention cases because you are correct.
That is in uh Natic or I'm in Massachusetts. How
you pronounced Natick? Yeah, totally okay, And that's supposedly the
oldest diner in the United States. That's still a thing.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Yeah. It started out as like a lunch wagon, like
with a horse attached to it from eighteen ninety and
then it became one of those Worcester Lunch Car Company
models from nineteen twenty two, and I guess they bought
that and replaced the lunch Wagon with it in nineteen
twenty seven. It's been running ever since then. That's just amazing.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah. Absolutely, And we got to shout out New Jersey
because Jersey and when I lived there, there was a
kid from the South who who only knew waffle house.
Basically all I heard was diner this, and diner that.
You know, whenever people out, well, let's go to the diner.
Let's meet at the diner. I was like, what is
it with you people in diners? Because I didn't know
about this culture in the Northeast. And New Jersey is
(44:09):
I believe, still the leading state for the number of
diners today.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
Yeah. If you've ever watched Sopranos, let's set in New
Jersey and they're in diners like all the time.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yeah, six hundred of the roughly two thousand diners still around,
as according to Smithsonian Magazine, are in New Jersey. And
maybe the Jerio Mahoney company being based there had something
to do with that, but they love their diners in Jersey.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
Well, there you go, Jersey. This episode was for you.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Can you get anything else? Nah, I don't either. Since
Chuck said Nan, I said, I don't either. That unlocked
listener mail.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Okay, I'm gonna call this buttons buttons buttons. We heard
from a lot of people about why buttons are for
traditionally for a man's garment and a woman's garment on
different sides. I had heard this, but I forgot Okay,
so thanks to everyone who emailed in. But we're going
with Sheila from Decatur, Georgia, because Sheila's right down the
(45:12):
street to as a long time Atlanta and uga Alum.
I love your show, guys, especially when you reference Atlanta
and Athens go Dogs. Regarding your mention of buttons on
the opposite side, women's clothes have traditionally been made with
enclosures on the opposite of men's because of upper class
royal women having assistants when getting dressed. Therefore, and people
(45:36):
being traditionally or not traditionally but predominantly right handed. Therefore,
the buttons would be fastened by someone on the other
side of the person wearing the clothes. I guess with
the assumption that actually working the button with your right
hand is more intuitive and easier than your left hand,
your non dominant hand, so more right handed people. Means
(45:57):
men were dressing themselves with a button the right and
women were dressed by other women with their buttons on
the left.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
That's fascinating. Who is that? Who wrote that? Suzanne Vega?
Speaker 2 (46:09):
That was Susanna, That was Shila, Chila Vegas, Susanne's sister.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Thanks a lot, Sheila. We appreciate that from you, and
a lot of people wrote in, So yeah, thank you
to everybody like you said. And if you want to
be like Shila and the whole gang and write to
us and tell us something interesting that we didn't know,
you can do it via email, send it off to
stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
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