Do video games produce real-life violence?

The disturbing trend of school shootings around the world has dragged violence in video games into the hot seat. But are violent video games actually more capable of producing real violence in gamers or is it just the latest victim of societal hysteria?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know
from house Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. This Charles W. Chuck Bryant.
You can probably hear his forehead and scraping against his

(00:22):
mic cover. You do not feel like doing us today? Do? No,
We're gonna do it anyway. I mean, yes, we do
not know we do? You can't affirm with the negative,
yes we don't. Well, there it is Chuck, the cleverest
banter we will ever have. Um. Hey, how are you?
How are you? I'm fine, man, I'm feeling aggressive. I

(00:43):
want to punch something. You've been playing violent video games,
and I've been reading about people playing violent video games.
It's apparently the magic bullet. It's what really makes you
aggressive reading about that kind of thing. Oh, reading about yeah,
articles on that sure. Yeah, so we need to be
watching out for um. Yeah, people who read like parenting

(01:05):
sections on like HuffPo or MSNBC, or like some of
the most violent criminals now because of those um, Chuck,
are you familiar with a little country called Germany? Mm?
Hmm yeah, old Uh is that that's Russian, isn't it?
That's Germany. I don't know if you've noticed this' not chuck,

(01:28):
but over the last few weeks, I've gotten increasingly dumber.
Have you picked up on that? Who you have? I have? UM?
I don't really know. My the frequency of mispronouncing words
has just gone up dramatically, which is really saying something. Um.
Uh getting language is wrong, as I just did. That's
a big one. Uh fallen asleep in the middle of

(01:50):
stuff like I'm about to right now. Okay, Uh, chuck,
you've heard of Germany? Uh. In two thousand six, late
two thousand six, there was some thing of a fairly
radical proposal that came up from the representatives of Bavaria
and Lower Saxony get those two together. Things happen normally,

(02:10):
not in this case, but normally. The representatives proposed a
bill that would offer fines of uh. Well, I don't
know how much the fines were, but the penalty of
jail time up to twelve months for um may I
quote uh, cruel violence on humans or human looking characters

(02:34):
inside games. So creating a game inside games, yes, said, yeah,
that's funny. Creating a game where there is violence violence
can happen, or playing a video game and inflicting violence
virtual violence could get your twelve months in jail, according
to these guys. So you can't play Call of Duty

(02:56):
you would spend the rest of your life in jail.
If these guys had had their rather radical resolution passed,
it felt flat on its face. But the whole thing
was in reaction to um the the prior month, the
spree killing or almost I guess free maiming by Sebastian Boss,

(03:21):
who was eighteen. He was the worst school shooter Germany
ever had. Any He wounded thirty seven people, didn't kill anybody, Um,
but he did kill himself. You you you remember he
played counter Strike a lot. I find it interesting that
he shot thirty seven people and didn't kill anyone. I'll
bet he found that something other than interesting. Did he

(03:42):
try to just wound? No, I know that's probably dumb question. No,
he went on a rampage and he just missed. Okay,
so anyway, this is god he well yeah, he um,
but he played a lot of counter Strike. That was
his big thing. And nowadays is you you have grown
up and since the nine and you've been paying attention,
so you know that anytime there's a spree shooting at

(04:04):
a school by a teenager, one of the first things
that comes out is what their violent video game of
choice was. And legislation like this out of Germany. Is
it is radical like putting someone in jail for acts
of virtual violence? Um, but it's it's getting to be
par for the course, you know, which leads us to

(04:27):
a very big question, though, before you start throwing people
in jail for playing video games, before creating video games,
we have to prove whether or not video games is
especially violent ones cause real life violence. And as I
learned after reading this article, the jury is very much
still out on that. Yeah, although both sides have very

(04:50):
persuasive arguments, and I think you should explore buff Um,
I'm just gonna go ahead and say it's probably hard
to prove anything when it comes to this. Why. Well,
because of all the reasons we're going to mention, it's
it's a very complicated issue. Yeah, Um, whether or not
that was the thing that pushed someone over the edge,
or whether or not it was an inspiration, whether or

(05:12):
not it had nothing to do with it. It's uh,
it's tough to prove something like that, right, And there's
a lot of people who are like, yes, school shooters
are horrifying, They're terrifying. The idea that your kid could
go to school and get shot and killed by a
classmate on a rampage, that's that that would terrify anybody.
So yeah, of course you want to get to the

(05:33):
root of it. But a lot of people are saying,
don't stop at video games. Even the a p A,
The American Psychological Association, UM, who are very much in
favor of the idea that violent video games cause real
life violence, say, don't just stop at video games, like
that's one part of a larger hole, and we've not

(05:55):
figured it out because video games. You can just lay
that at the feet of one thing and go back
to work. Let your let your kids go back to
playing video games. Yeah, I gotta quote, I was gonna
hang onto this might as well read it though. UM.
There's a book written called Grand Theft Childhood, The Surprising
Truth about Violent video Games and what Parents can do,
And this is by Lawrence Kutner and Cheryl Olsen, and

(06:18):
they are co directors of the Harvard Medical School Center
for Mental Health and media. They wrote this book. Um,
and they have a guy that they interviewed, a psychologist
who specializes in media research called Guy Cumberbatch. Wow, it
sounds like a Simpson's character. He's real though, Um And

(06:38):
he says, uh, and I'm gonna quote. The real puzzle
is that anyone looking at the research evidence in this
field could draw any conclusions about the pattern, let alone
argue with such confidence and even passion that demonstrates the
harmon violence on television, in film, and in video games.
While test of statistical significance are a vital tool of
the social sciences, they seem to have been more often

(07:00):
used in this field as instruments of torture on the
data until it confesses something which could justify publication in
a scientific journal. So basically, he's, in a very verbose way,
kind of said, what you're saying is that it's easy
to scapegoat something like a video game by looking at

(07:21):
um anecdotal research. It is very easy. Um. And Also,
I think part of the reason why school shooters not
not just because they're so sensational they are, sure, also
because most if not all of them did play violent
video games, but also because the school shooting rampage so

(07:43):
closely mirrors video game action even to the casual observer.
Um that I think like it's something that's really been
zeroed in on. Well, the army uses it for training,
you know, and so it's bound to be Uh, it's
bound to put you in that headspace which makes a
lot of sense. Sure, which is that's an argument on

(08:05):
the side of um people who say that, yes, video games,
violent video games create real life violence. So let's let's
explore that. Let's look at the the side that says yes, obviously,
ding Bat, if you play violent video games, you're going
to be violent. And this isn't new. By the way,
we should point out that like before video games, it

(08:26):
was laid at the feet of TV, well, comic books
before that, even before that. And I wondered, though, if
you go back far enough, the media is a fairly
recent thing, at least as far as like entertainment media.
So say the advent of radio, big radio in like
the twenties. Say, what did anybody blame violence on before that? Uh?

(08:51):
Probably the real reason, which is that some people are sociopaths. Well,
I think you you make an excellent point, Chuck, What
what you're saying, I think I tend to agree with
is that's possible in in everybody, and then probably more
possible in some of us than others. So is it
just a convergence of large public schools where you have

(09:12):
a lot of people who you don't like sitting like
ducks in one place, and converging with access easy access
to guns? Is that all the school shooter is. It's
pretty complicated issue. Okay, so go ahead and sorry about that.
That's all right? UM, I guess we can sign a
couple of more cases that in the media at least
have placed the blame on on video games UM. In

(09:35):
two thousand and six, in Alabama, Devon Moore famously ah
was arrested for car theft UM suspicion and he's eighteen.
Brought him into the station to book him, and he
kind of went nuts. He attacked the cop, stole his gun,
shot him, shot another cop, went down the hall, shot
at nine one one dispatch in the head, then grabbed

(09:58):
the squad car keys and took off in squad car.
That's crazy. And and what game did he play? He
played Grand Theft Auto, which is pretty much how that
game goes down, And reportedly after he was arrested. He
even said, quote life as a video game, everybody's got
to die sometime. And he was convicted and sentenced to death,
and I could not find out if he's still on

(10:21):
death row or if he was put to death. It's
so frustrating when you can't find out something that should
be so easy to find out. Did you try the
Alabama's Department of Corrections website. No, I mean I was
gonna call somebody, but it just ran out of time.
So at any rate, he was convicted, an appealed, and
I think that appeal was denied. But um, when this
happens a lot of times, there are lawsuits filed. In

(10:43):
the case of Columbine, one of the wife of a
teacher there, um sued wh she sue. She sued Sony
and Nintendo and Time Warner and Palm Pictures because, Uh,
Clibold and Harris had also watched The Basketball Die. Yeah,
you remember that party. But what's strange is that that

(11:05):
movie came out and with the late nineties, but the
Basketball Diaries were written by Jim Carroll and like the seventies,
maybe in the sixties, and people were thinking about doing
that back then obviously, well and also wonder and boy,
we're gonna be all over the place here, but also
wonder about what constitutes as far as the lawsuit goes,
a negative correlation, Like what if someone made a movie

(11:29):
about the Columbine massacre and some kid watched that and
then later on did his own thing, like if something,
you know, even if that movie decries it and shows
the repercussions, which is one of the big points that
a lot of parents make, because these video games don't
show the repercussions of these actions. It's all just fantasy.

(11:51):
So like, where do you draw the line there as
far as the lawsuit goes? Well, that's also a really
good question, like where do you draw the line as
far as legislation goes, Because what we're talking about here
basically is say, ultimately, the idea that if video games
cause violence in just some people banning them all together.
It's the same thing like we did with booze and prohibitions.

(12:14):
There are some alcoholics who couldn't help themselves to the
rest of us who weren't alcoholics could just give it up,
and let's just do that, right, But are you gonna
ban movies and TV and comic books and everywhere else
that has any kind of violence portrayed. Art think, So
I don't think that's ever going to be able to happen,
And no, I don't. I think ultimately, if you follow

(12:35):
that argument to its logical conclusion, now you come to
where you and I are sitting, which is, no, there's
some crazy people out there and some are kids. All right,
So should we talk about a little bit of the
studies in the science behind it. Yeah, So like on
the in the camp where they where they think that yes,
violent video games cause violence. There problem, Their most persuasive

(12:58):
argument is that, yes, TV has been linked to aggressive
behavior in kids. Right, TV violence has been through other studies.
They've been doing this for years and years and years.
Video games are relatively new, but um by extension, video
games should be even more prone degenerating violence in the

(13:20):
player because playing video games is more immersive than watching television.
You're interacting, right. Also though they're based on the reward
system of learning, right conditioning exactly, So if I if
I shoot you and behind you is like this magic donut,

(13:40):
and I get like, I get another life once I
grab the magic donut, right, I'm gonna shoot you, and
I'm gonna learn the next time that I need to
shoot you again to get that magic donut. Last time
I got the reward. That's a pretty broad basic example,
but the the whole point of video games is based on,
like you said, classical conditioning. They should have a podcaster

(14:01):
game where it's like us and Mark Marrin and Ira
Glass and Jesse Thorne and we're all like out there
trying to kill each other, all right. I think that
would do us all a little good. Judge Judge John
Hodgman like presides over the whole thing. I don't know though,
Adam Carola going down, Yeah, who would you take on first?

(14:24):
Probably um you? It would be like um Golden Eye
and just get trapped in the corner and just keep
shooting me and waiting for me to come back. And
one of those things where we're supposed to be teammates
and like, you know, you can kill your own guy
sometimes and what call of duty? Right? Um? I think
a lot of those games where you can partner up,

(14:45):
you can still shoot your partners. You used to not
be the case. Oh it would just like fire by
you or something. Yeh. You just sit there and like
kind of move a little bit, but like nothing happened
to you, It didn't have any effect on your life.
Oh good stuff. So those are two big ones there.
Immersive and they use classical conditioning. What else? Why else
would a video game cause violence more be more likely

(15:07):
to cause violence than just play on TV. Well, they
did one study where they actually hook kids up to
uh it didn't actually say what they just said they
scanned the brain. So I'm guessing an m R. I
UM in two thousand six at Indiana University and they
UM have them play two games, A Need for Speed
Underground and Medal of Honor colon frontline One is non

(15:29):
violent Need for Speed I guess, and Medal of Honor
is violent. First person shooters were talking about if you
don't know what that is, carl out from under a rock,
But it's when you are. It's the point of view
of the person walking around shooting people. Is you? Um
And the brain scans say showed that the kids who

(15:50):
played the violent game showed increased activity in the amygdala,
which stimulates emotion, decreased activity in the prefrontal cortext or
lobe regulates inhibition and self control. Right, you realize what
you just described, right, zombie zombie. I think you're gonna
say that. But my question is is, like, wouldn't it

(16:11):
be more cause of concern if there was like zero
emotion going on. If these kids are playing these violent
games and make it like shut down, that would freak
me out. It's a really good point because the whole
idea behind video games is to trick the brain into
thinking that it's actually experiencing the game play. Right. I
get like I don't play much anymore, but when I
play Call of Duty, I would way get into it

(16:32):
and like my heart would increase, and like if someone
snuck up behind me and it was like, you know,
it puts you there. But that's to me, like the
fun of those games. Well, yeah, it's the point of them. Right,
So your fighter fight or flight response is aroused, Um,
your heart rates up, like you said, you're perspiring, you're jumpie,
you know, But how does that translate to video games?

(16:54):
And I guess an even bigger question is how long
does that state of arousal last? Like if it did
trans violent, Really, the only person who's in trouble is
you know, your big brother or your best friend who
you're playing next to, who just killed you and you
lean over and you punch them like, yeah, I've done
that before. Well that happens. Actually, I saw a bunch
of cases where and it wasn't just violent video games.

(17:16):
It was like people playing John Madden. Uh would like
one guy Wisconsin, I think hit his buddy with a
lead pipe, and then you know this one guy in
England attacked a kid who killed him and call of duty.
But they're like, these people are crazy and competitive and
they might do the same thing playing monopoly. So maybe
it's not violent. It's competitive video games make you violent.

(17:41):
Maybe that's what we should be looking at. Mak So, right,
let's see what else, Chuck, Oh, I've got one for you.
These studies are just so awesome. Um So, especially after
call him, I get the impression that there was like
just a rash of studies like this. And then now
the end is to go back and do meta analysis

(18:02):
of these studies. But um one study found that it
took kids and scored them um with like basically inherent hostility, right,
And what it found was that kids with the lowest
hostility score they were just the nicest little kids. When

(18:22):
they played violent video games, they were ten times more
likely to get in a physical fight than the kids
with the lowest hostility scores who didn't play violent video games.
So it was like they were thirty eight percent third
they were, they had a thirty eight percent likelihood he
getting a fight compared to like four so almost ten
times right, and then even crazier according to the study, Um,

(18:45):
there the kids with the lowest hostility score who played
violent video games were more likely to get in a
fight than the kids with the highest hostility scores who
didn't play violent video games at least, so it would
make nice kids bad and bad kids who didn't played
it would just they would maintain that level or whatever.
The nice kids who played them were worse than the

(19:06):
bad kids, worse than the worst bad kids. Interesting, Yeah, so,
like studies like these are coming out and it's making
it like more and more clear, Like yes, all right, um,
video games do cause violence, but there's a lot of
ground left to cover before that link can be made,
if it's ever made, And there's a lot of people

(19:28):
trying to put the reins on this, especially once we
are saying, well, you're you're looking, you're barking up the
wrong tree, Like maybe, so maybe you're even right. But
this isn't it. This isn't the one thing that's the problem.
So what are some of the criticisms of this science,
I guess explaining or showing a link between the two. Uh. Well,

(19:49):
one is that it's a lot of anecdotal stories. Um
this uh the same guy Cumberbatch says, um the strong
link between video games violence and real world violence, and
the conclusion that it leads to social social isolation, poor
interpersonal skills are drawn from bad and or irrelevant research,

(20:10):
muddle headed thinking, and unfounded simplistic news reports. So that,
for instance, in the Malvo DC sniper case, Lee Malvo,
remember that his attorney actually argued that he trained quote
unquote himself to kill by playing Halo on Xbox. Uh.

(20:31):
He was even quoted as saying he's trained and desensitized
with video games to shoot human forms over and over.
In actuality, Lee Malvo trained by shooting paper plates with
human faces drawn on them with real guns. Bye, what's
his face? Who's the guy? I can't remember his name?

(20:51):
But yeah, yeah, And in Halo, you shoot this weird
looking space gun at like giant bug. So this was
even brought up in a court of law that like Halo,
led him to be a DC sniper, So it's definitely
a lot of sensationalism going on. Um. And another thing
they point out is that, ah, video game popularity and

(21:15):
youth violence has been going in the opposite direction statistically.
Since um it reached a peak, violent juvenile crime reached
a peak in has been in decline ever since. Between
ninety four and two thousand one, arrest for murder, forcible rape, robbery,
and aggravated assault fell fort and had the lowest juvenile

(21:36):
arrest rate for violent crimes since the early eighties. So ah,
you know, that seems to fly in the face of
the research at least. And the reason also people keep
picking on kids is not just because there's school shooters,
but the one of one of the assumptions that people's
trying to prove that yes, um, violent video games caused

(21:58):
violence is that if you are a child, you still
have a developing brain, so you're gonna be more susceptible
of that kind of classical conditioning that a violent video
game provides. The thing is is like, as of I
think two thousand and eleven, a survey of kids played
video games, the average is about nine hours a week

(22:20):
and then a great many of those video games are violent.
So the numbers like that, it makes you wonder why
there aren't more school shooters. Why, to make this point
in this book, not a lot more common. Yeah, why
isn't the world like millions of people play these games.
Why isn't it just violent, chaotic world out there? All this?

(22:40):
I might say this so again though, we should, we
should kind of bring it back a little bit, like
it's the school shooters are just like the most sensational
um thing to point to. They're also worried that like
kids are like pump punching each other more or you know, um,
knifeing each other more. And the idea behind that is

(23:00):
there's this thing called script theory, where um we it's
it's an extension of this thing called affect theory. Right,
We're basically like something happens to us, we have uh,
an emotional reaction to something, and it triggers a response,
a prescribed response, and it's it's fairly specific to the
human being, but it's also kind of predictable well over time.

(23:24):
Because remember, the brain is very lazy and likes to
chunk things and do things as efficiently as possible. The
same thing happens, Um, whenever we we come across the
same emotional stimulus, right where we build a script. Okay,
so if somebody comes up to us and we have
been trained to or we've produced a script through violent

(23:47):
video games where if somebody's coming at us, we have
to shoot it. The idea behind script, they very crudely
put is that, um, we would use violence, it would
trigger a violent reaction because we are script for dealing
with this has been built and compiled through violence through

(24:07):
violent video games. Interesting, it is interesting. Um, it's also
totally unproven. It's the problem. So, like number one, there's
a lot of there's a there's despite all the studies,
there's not a lot of scientific data out there that
shows yes, violent video games cause violence. Well, they'll study
like thirty kids. That's a big problem. Another one is like,

(24:30):
how do you quantify violence and video games? How do
you say when you're giving people, when you're testing pharmaceuticals,
you can get it down to the milligram or microgram
or whatever. How do you do that with exposure to
violence in a video game? Well, yeah, because there's all
kinds of levels of violence from Mario whacking animals on
the head with mallets. H And that's That's one of

(24:54):
the things that this book points out is that they're
kind of getting it wrong with the ratings. The E.
S r B is who rates video games ranging from
uh early childhood rating, which is the sweetest of all ratings,
all the way to mature and adults only. UM And,

(25:14):
like I said, one of the problems is that people
complain that there are no repercussions in video games, but
they say they got it backwards and that um. In
the in the lighter rated games, like the dead bodies
just disappear instead of showing like this is a dead body,
or the blood is like super animated and not realistic. Um.

(25:37):
And it's basically saying no, these lighter rated games aren't
showing negative consequences. Games that do show that are more
likely to be rated M or A, which is adults only,
which is interesting I thought so and also um. Another
point is that the average gamer these days apparently is
thirty so and listen as Mom's space mo, yeah he's

(26:00):
He's also probably not out there committing acts of violence either, right. Uh.
You know, I will say when I played like a
lot of UM, call of duty or what was the
driving one again? Grand Theft Auto that like it was
the same one I played Tetris. I had like Tetris
dreams like it. It gets into your dreams and it

(26:21):
like gets into your crawl. And when I'm driving around,
you have those thoughts of like, you know, bump the
sky off the road and make this move like it's
in your head, but you don't do it. You know,
like people have thoughts all the time, but that you know,
Cleibold and Harris were suicidal, depressed sociopaths. You know, they

(26:44):
weren't like just great kids who played college or whatever
game they accused them of playing and just decided to
shoot up their school. But that's not to say it
doesn't have some impact, you know. That's why it's such
a tough issue. Yeah, it's definitely not there's not one.
I don't think there's one side that's ever gonna be proven, right,
I think it's going to be like, yes, Okay, this
does have this effect that does have this impact on

(27:07):
some people more than others, because it just just from
the small amount of games that I've played, Like I
know what it's like, Yeah, you get around, you get
like excited fight or flight, and then you you start
thinking about ways to play it better when you're not
playing it. So yeah, it definitely does not It doesn't

(27:29):
have just an immediate effect. It definitely extends to the
rest of your life. But there is that line, and
that's what we need to explore, in my opinion, is
where that line is and how does that differ from people,
from some people to another, and how do you take
people who have the line a lot closer than it
should be an extended further out. You, my friend, have
hit on it. I think that's basically the summary of

(27:51):
this book is we're asking the wrong questions and looking
for the wrong uh causes. Basically, um, I'm gonna quote again.
Instead of looking for a simple direct relationship, um, in
all children, we should be asking ourselves, how might we
identify those children who are the greatest risk for being

(28:12):
influenced by everything from movies to the freaking news that
they watch on TV every night and then put him
in jail prematurely? I just said, freaking man, can we
do that? Now? I'm pretty hopped up? Uh So, yeah,
I think you hit on it. Like you, these games
aren't going away. Violent movies aren't going away the History Channel,

(28:34):
which shows more violence than anything on television in going away. Um,
none of these things are going anywhere, So maybe it's
up to the parents to get involved a little more. Yeah,
but like you have to stop watching TV to do
something like that. Ah, you got anything else right now?
I don't think so. Well, it's a tough issue. I

(28:54):
get it, you know it is. This is definitely not
when we're just gonna explain everything. But I feel like
we explained both. It's right, I think so that the
people on the pro side saying hey, here's all the
science of people on the conside saying hey, you gotta
do a little better. Right, Yeah, we'll see where we
are in we'll come back here. Okay. If you want

(29:15):
to learn more about this, you can type violent video
games in the search bart how stuff works dot com.
It will bring up this really good article. And uh,
I said search bar, which means it's time through the listener. Mate,
Josh gonna call this gas chromatography mass spectrometer, explained, of course,

(29:35):
remember I brought that up in the body other thing,
and I didn't have time to look it up. Luckily
we have smart listeners. Um, guys have just heard the
Body Oder podcast. Nicely done as always. Um. In the show,
you mentioned that you didn't have time to look up
gas chromatography mass spectrometer. Is there not an abbreviation for that?
We call it gc M s Um, this is exactly

(29:58):
the type of situation I'd be glad to help. And
he's basically offering his services in the future too. It's
like wherever, Like, uh, I don't time, he said, just
pick up the phone. I'll explain it to you. So
who He's an associate professor of physics at Thomas Moore
College in Kentucky. That's awesome, um, And he says in
a single sentence, a gas chromatography mass but trometer is

(30:21):
essentially a machine for identifying the composition of molecules and
a sample, which you clearly presume. In a brief essence,
he says this. It has two parts, the gas chromatograph,
which essentially breaks a sample into its component molecules and
admits them on a delay based on their chemical properties,
and then the mass spectrometer, which essentially finds the mass

(30:45):
of the molecule. The combination of these processes identifies some
molecular makeup. The amount of each type of molecule of
the sample. And he said this only and then he
had a longer version to which I read, but I'm
not free now, and he said. This took me about
ten or fifteen minutes to type out. Guys, I hope
it encourages you to ask if you need a short

(31:06):
overview of some minor detail. My goal in this offer
is to maximize a number of times kids are exposed
to the idea that the world around me is understandable.
And he would be happy to donate his time to
help us out in the future. This guy would make
a great mascot, It's right. That is Joe Christensen of
Thomas Moore College. The fighting jeez, I don't know if

(31:29):
they have it sounds like a smart school. I don't
know if they have sports. Thomas More, He wasn't the
wong with the social contract prest View Hills, Kentucky. Yeah,
that's not where the social contract came from, but it's
upheld there every day. That's right, Thank you very much,
Professor Christensen. Let's say sure, thanks, professor Um and I

(31:50):
think we will take you up on your offer at
some point. Um. Let's see, uh, if you ever want
to explain something to us. We're always in the market
for that kind of thing. Specifically, I would love it
if somebody can explain to me what's so great about
prog rock because I don't get it. Um. You can
tweet to us at s y s K podcast, You

(32:13):
can go on to Facebook with its stupid timeline at
Facebook dot com slash stuff you Should Know, and you
can email us at Stuff Podcast at Discovery dot com
for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is

(32:33):
it how stuff works dot Com. Brought to you by
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