December 6, 2016 • 49 mins
A lot of people read their daily horoscopes, but does anyone really take stock in them? Turns out the answer is yes, even though there is no evidence of their accuracy. Learn all about horoscopes today.
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We will see you soon. Welcome to stuff you should
(01:07):
know from how Stuff Works dot com. Hey, you welcome
to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles W. Chuck Ryant,
and Jerry's over here and we're just relaxing here in
Studio one A. So this is stuff you should know. Oh,
(01:30):
I thought it was astro chat. Yeah, that's what we
would call has a great name or horoscope or podcast?
I say horror scope. No, you shouldn't say that. No,
would you ever want to do a horoscope or astrology podcast?
Oh do you mean on its own? Yeah? No, I
(01:51):
would not see that. Well, we were talking about this
briefly until I didn't do it this time, But normally,
whenever this is a secret Chuck though about to share
with everybody. Yeah, if we start to talk and get
too involved in the topic before we start recording, usually
one of us will be like, stop, stop, this is
golden to save it for the podcast. We didn't do
(02:14):
that this time. I think we just kind of naturally
just continue conversations. But um, you were saying that you are,
and I don't know if you're ready to admit this
or not this early in the episode. You're a little
incredulous about horoscopes and astrology. Yes, okay, um, I am
as well. But I think the difference between us is
(02:35):
you're just kind of like, come on. And as I
was researching it more and more, I was like, this
is really interesting. I could say here and read about
this like all day, and now that it's been brought up,
I'm like, I could probably do a skeptical but not
with the aim to like destroy it, but just from
a skeptic standpoint podcast on astrology. I think that that
would fascinate me personally, and like day maybe, so yeah,
(03:03):
I think we we got on that because I was
having a hard time wrapping my head around a couple
of i'm not gonna say scientific parts but a couple
of the science sciency parts of this, and I kept
going back to like, who cares, It's not real, So
it's hard for me to commit to the learning of it.
(03:24):
And and we typically have a thing where it's like,
you know, poo poo people's beliefs. Yeah, we're not really
doing that here, but there have been a couple of
occasions where we just kind of like, this is there's
just no way. One of them was crop circles. Yeah, um,
I'm I don't plan on poop pooing this throughout. But
I think it's good for us to state our beliefs
(03:47):
from the get go, all right, so that we don't
mislead anybody who's who does believe in it. Well, here's
I did. I had my astrological chart done once. Um
you did. Yeah, I didn't like seek it out and
pay for it. My friend's mom is really into this,
and she asked me one time, She's like, do you
want me to do your chart? And I'm sure? So
(04:09):
she did my chart and I remember looking at it
and thinking like, wow, a lot of this, you know.
It kind of like when you look at your son
sign and we'll go ahead and say that's what most like,
like when somebody says what sign are you? Yeah, or
if you read your daily horoscope, it's it's based on
your sun sign. Um. I would look at things like that,
or like my whatever my year is on the Chinese zodiac,
(04:30):
can think like, oh wow, I am some of these things.
But then I'm like, not about half of those things.
So uh, I just think it's interesting. And I think
it's interesting as well, but again from a standpoint of
where I don't actually believe it's effective or real. But
just the thought put into it. And Ed wrote this
(04:50):
article the Grabster, and he makes a really good point.
He saying like, even if you don't believe it or
not getting your your chart done is interesting in and
of itself. I think so sure, And at the very least,
it's going to force you to be a little more
introspective about yourself than than you normally would be, because
you're being presented with basically like here's your personality according
(05:11):
to the Cosmos, and it's you can't help but think, what, like,
am I introspective? Am I do I set things on fire?
I think anything that can spur self reflection is valuable
in some ways. Yes, I think that's where interested. Like
I would go to a palm reader just to know
what that's like. But I wouldn't leave thinking like, oh boy,
(05:31):
my life is set out for me. Yeah, exactly. You
know Nancy Reagan, Well we'll get to that, so but spoiler,
I am not Nancy Reagan. We we should probably say
for those of you who are confused, they're like, how
are they pooh pooing this? Like this is the science
of of Niel's deGrasse Tyson and Carl Sagan. I don't understand.
(05:53):
We're talking about astrology, not astronomy. Um. So astrology is
basically the idea UM that distant objects out on the cosmos, planets, stars,
constellations specifically have an influence on our lives and events
on the planet. And it's very old. Um. I saw
(06:16):
it as far back as five thousand years ago. People
were starting to develop astrological systems. UM. I saw more
frequently three thousand years ago with the Babylonians, that Western
astrology kind of started to develop. Should we talk about
history a little bit? I think I finally figured out
my beef with it. Should I hold on to that
(06:38):
or should we talk about history first? That's up to you, man,
how do you want it to play out? I just
don't forget if you hang onto it. All right, I'm
gonna write beef at the top of my page. It's
gonna you're gonna carrying yourself to shoot a duck later on. Okay,
So it's like memento. I'll come back to that. So
(06:59):
his street. Um, we need to go back in the
way back machine, the way way back to ancient times,
to Babylon. Yeah, when basically people mean we are going
back to Babylon, basically when people were like looking around
(07:22):
at everything and going on, don't get it. Why is
all this stuff happening? Why did the earth just open
up and swallow fish mail? Why is it raining? Why
is it not raining? Why are the crops doing well?
Are they doing terribly? Yeah? Why why is that sun? Uh?
Up half the day and down half the day. Uh So,
as humans started to get a little more I don't
(07:44):
know about intelligent, but um, inquisitive, inquisitive. I was about
to say, answer seeky, but inquisitive is the word for that.
As they started to get a little more answer seeky,
they started to make things up. Um that made them
feel better about what was going on, right, I mean
they they did apply a certain measure of science too,
(08:06):
which is where a lot of people who believe in
astrology get the idea that it's scientific at some in
some way, shape or form, because it does involve the movement,
studying and tracking the movement of the planets and the
constellations the cosmos. Right, Yeah, And that makes a good point.
Back then, astronomy and astrology were the same thing, right, right,
(08:27):
Because you took those observations astronomy and then you you
used them to predict or explain the stuff that was
going on here on Earth, which we now call astrology, right,
but yeah, I don't even know what they called it
back then. They called it reality, probably so. But it
wasn't just the Babylonians who were doing this, Like all
(08:48):
over the planet. Basically every culture that's ever lived had
some sort of astrological system. Yeah, the Aztec and Incas
and the mines in South America they had zodiac of
twenty symbols, including things like earthquake and ape and rain
and um. When they died out they took it with them,
(09:10):
like that doesn't have any that didn't seep into modern
forms of astrology, like the Babylonians. No Spanish Jesuit was saying,
so can you explain your astrological system to an Inca
emperor that was being tortured to death? Uh? What else?
The Chinese, of course, they had their own um by
a thousand BC, and they had twenty four divisions in
(09:33):
a year. Yeah, they had like the most complex one
probably of all time. Not surprising. Um, I don't know
why that's not surprising. They're complex people. Maybe. Well, when
I think of the zodiac, I think of the Western
zodiac and then Chinese zodiac. Yeah, me too. And the
only thing I knew about Chinese zodiac coming in was
(09:53):
what year animal? I was what are you? From the
menu at the Chinese restaurant? That's where I learned it too. Yeah,
I'm the dog. Oh, I'm a dragon wolf? Jerry? Are
you a cat? She just me out that that was weird.
It was her first instant. There is a year the cat? Huh?
(10:18):
That al Stewart's song Are you the Year of the fish? Jerry?
All right? Jerry's said that she was the ox year
of the Ox. But when but when she's called upon
to do it? Animals sound? I think it's cute. What
if oxes oxen me out? Maybe an ox that was
raised by cats and it imprinted might learn to me out.
(10:39):
I think that's what Jerry was saying. This is getting silly.
So the horoscope points getting silly. It is is there
gas looking in? Uh? One of our events that I
don't know about? Um? All right, So back to China.
UM twenty four divisions twenty eight part lunar zodiac and
then the twelve branches that correspond to the animal, and
(11:00):
then those animals have further subdivisions. Uh, like you could
be a fire dog or a water dragon, right, which
we'll get to that stuff in a minute too. Yeah.
And I didn't know that you could be like an
elemental animal. I thought it was just straight up animal.
I did not know that either. Yeah. Like, that's one
thing about astrology. No matter what system you're looking at,
(11:21):
there's like, oh, there's this one layer and then let's
add this other layer and another layer in another layer.
That's so fascinates me. It's just the thought that's going
into it. What about Babylon though, what do you mean? Well,
I mean, ohh that's like the origin of the Western Yeah,
and here is where it becomes painfully obvious that astrology
(11:43):
can't possibly be correct or real. You know what you're
about to say. So our idea of the constellations here
in the West came from the ancient Babylonian people and
astronomers and astrologers who looked up and they said, oh,
Mars is red, so blog can be read. So Mars
is probably associated with war. Right. They just kind of
(12:06):
just made that up. They made it up, and that
is fundamentally the basis of astrology. Stuff that was made
up by the Babylonians can't possibly be true. It's just
basically a fact. The other big thing is the Babylonians
divided the zodiac into twelve equal parts. But um, according
(12:26):
to their own stories, there were thirteen constellations in the zodiac,
so they just picked one and left it out. Yes,
which was choose? I like how you said that? I
don't know, man, I've never tried to say that out loud.
O P h I U C h U S. It's
(12:48):
like the hidden zodiac symbol, well, not hidden. They just
kind of said, twelve kind of works out better, so
let's just leave it out. Yeah. And if the Babylonians
prove anything, it's that for thousands of years humans have
all has preferred things to be nice and tidy and neat.
They don't like it to be messy because if you
really look at what they were trying to do, it's
super messy. So, for example, if you are dividing the
(13:10):
night sky into twelve, trying to assign a month to
each horoscope, you've got constellations slopping over into other um
zodiac signs. UM. The the actual movement of the constellations
behind the sun UH is way less than a thirty
day standard. I think Scorpio is actually in line with
(13:33):
the sun for about seven days out of the year,
whereas um, one of one of the other ones is
around for like forty five days. I believe. I don't
think we even said what that means, though, maybe we're
we should we should start from the beginning, should we?
We got the history down? Do you want to take
a break first? Uh? Yeah, why not. I'll go to
check my horsecope and see if it says we should continue. Okay, Well,
(14:15):
lucky for us, the horoscope said finished show. It said
ask again. Later it said finished show. Take it easy
on me, Yeah, he layoff jerks. I had even resolved
to not poo poo astrology. I think the first thing
I did was launched into it. Yeah, I'm sorry, astrology.
(14:36):
So we should get to the basics of all this,
and um, we will this. There's two things that we
have to point out. One, we would have to spend
years researching astrology to really get everything right. Too, even
if we spent years researching astrology, we would still get
(14:57):
stuff wrong depending on who you are, because there's a
of contradictory things like, for example, I saw that the
moon is a fire sign. Also saw that the moon
is associated with water. How is that? Well, I think
there's just been so many permutations over the years that
it's you know, been kind of mixed together. Okay, so
(15:17):
we are going to get things that will contradict your
understanding of astrology, I'm quite sure. But for the most part,
I feel like if we're sticking to the basics of it,
we can get it fairly right, right, Yeah, I mean
the most basic thing is sun sign astrology, which is
really just seeing where each planet was when you were
born the day you were born. That's the most simplistic
(15:38):
way to look at it, right, And when you ask
somebody what's your sign? What's your sign? See, okay, I'm cancer.
All that's say is that on the date of our births,
the Pisces constellation allegedly was behind the sun as it rose, right,
and when I was born, the Cancer constellation was behind
(16:01):
the sun when it rose, and the I like to
take the sunshine a little brighter when we were born.
But probably I can't prove that, no, but you can
just make a pretty good assumption. So, um, the way
that you do this is you basically take the Sun
and the Earth in its orbit around the Sun, which
equals a year. And you draw a line, an arrow
(16:21):
even from the Earth and may put it flat, like
it flat? I forgot to say that. Uh, And you
make it. You draw an arrow from the Earth through
the Sun and then out the other side of the Sun.
And wherever that arrow is pointing, which is actually what
the opposite side of the Sun, opposite to Earth, whatever
constellation that is, that's your sun. Right, Pretty simple stuff. Right,
(16:44):
So you can think of the if if you've thought
of a circle around each if you looked at it
as a circle, each sign would be its own little
zone zone exactly. A pizza slice, a pie slice, whatever.
If you have a sweet tooth or a salty tooth,
you're gonna go with either one of those. What about cake?
(17:06):
I guess a cake too. Are you cake or pie both?
Mm hmm. What's your favorite cake? I like a good
coconut cream cake or coconut frosting cake. I like, um,
it's your favorite pie? Probably cream pie? No, actually that
sounds gross. I would say a key a good key
(17:30):
lime pie. But what does cheesecake constitute pie? I think
you've just opened up a Hornet's nest. Well, I love cheesecake. Basically,
I don't really discriminate. I've learned. I recently started trying
cherry pie, and I was like, where have you been
my whole life? Why did I ever discriminate against you know,
it's just been sitting there in the pie safe, rotting
(17:52):
because no one eats cherry pie anymore. Yeah, and then
I came along and ate all the rotten cherry pie
and loved it all right, what about you cake pie? Oh?
I love the good key lime pies like you were saying.
But um, I don't eat a lot of either. You know,
I don't just keep like cake and pie around the house.
And I don't really eat dessert in the restaurants either.
(18:16):
Um so just neither. Probably more cake, just because cakes
are the occasion dessert, like people bringing cake for birthdays
or whatever. Any any like Public's cake is awesome, their
standard cake with cream icing. Yeah, yeah, I never had it. Oh, chuck,
I slice. I like a good pecan pie. I eat.
I eat the pecan now, But I used to not
(18:38):
like the nuts. I would just slice that off because
I like the jelly. You'd give rid of the candy
pecans yeah, but I don't now because now I'm growing up. Okay,
I just eat the jelly man pecan pie, pumpkin pie. Sure,
all right, I'm going all in on pie now that
I think about it. Okay, pie, wait till you try
the public's cake. Then where are we? Oh? Sorry? We
(19:01):
were talking about how slices, right, and each of one
of those slices one of the twelve constellations of the zodiac. Right. Okay,
So wherever wherever the Earth, whatever constellation is opposite the
Earth on the other side of the sign, that's your
sun sign. And when you were born, that constellation has
(19:21):
a bunch of different personality traits and they are basically
imbued onto you. You were born under that sign, which
means you're going to have those personality traits. That's the
point of what's called the sun sign. That's right. Um.
In western astrology there you can subdivide it into three
groups mundane astrology, and this is basically what what is
(19:42):
your aim uh with these Mundane astrology is examines world
events and makes predictions about big things like the economy
and war. Uh. Interrogatory astrology. It seeks to make predictions
very specific ones or analyzes for for like events or
your life, maybe like for you the individual. Yeah, more
(20:04):
like you say, it's like when you when somebody says
they'll consult the stars to see what the best course
of action is. That's what they're talking about, which seems
like it overlaps with uh the last one. I think
all three of them could definite. Like, if you're doing
like a serious chart to figure out something you you
would probably do all three. So what would that be?
Natal astrology? Uh? Birth astrology? Yeah, and that's when you
(20:29):
read your daily horoscope. Uh. And that's based on the
idea that everything that happens to someone is expressed by
the very beginning, like that moment you were born, right,
But ironically the moment you're born, not the moment you
were conceived. So really that's when the astrology starts, not
the moment you were conceived, but the moment you were born. Right.
(20:49):
But the idea, this law of beginning says that the
moment you're born, the stars basically make everything in your
life predestined and therefore predictable if the person knows how
to read the stars correctly. That's the basis of astrology. Yeah,
and then what you would come up with these predictions
this chart that is your horoscope, that's right, and then uh,
(21:11):
there are different um the signs that can be subgrouped
into four elements you've heard of, Like I'm a water sign,
your water sign. We're both water signs, how about that? Yeah,
so fire sign that would be Aries Leo, Sagittarius uh enthusiasm, action, leadership,
open to change. Water signs besides cancer and Pisces who
(21:34):
get Scorpio um emotion, sensitivity and compassion. Earth signs Taurus Virgo,
Capricorn practicality and to focus on material goals. And then
air signs Jim and I Libra and Aquarius uh Into
signifies intellect, and those are the big groupings, the elemental groupings, right,
So here we've kind of come up with another layer, right, Yeah,
(21:58):
Like since each each sign and on its own has
its own qualities like for example, um, the cancer is
a very domestic, imaginative, thorough shy, interested in the past
and tradition. That's me all over? Is it really all
those things? Yeah? Basically, Um, but the then you lay
(22:19):
over the water sign, right that it's a water sign,
so that adds to the emotion or the sensitivity or
the compassion of it. That the where it really starts
to get interesting is the idea that there's a relationship
between the element and the sign, and those are with
the cardinal fixed or mutable um right, whether or not
(22:43):
you're resistant to change, you're able to change, or what's
cardinal just general movement. Cardinal is that it moves right.
So so these three things, it's like a whole other
layer and and basically um so they had to do
with the solsticism that equal an ox is. We should say.
There's a couple of kinds of Western astrology. One is sidereal,
(23:07):
which follows the movement of the stars, so your birth
sign is sidereal astrology. There's another one called tropical that
really just has nothing to do with the stars. It's
the idea that around the in the cosmos, the zodiac
is fixed and it really has nothing to do with
the stars. It has to do with the sun's relative
(23:28):
position to the horizon, so it has to do with
things like solstices and equinoxes. So when you go into
the tropical um type of astrology, that's when the cardinal
fixed a mutable comes up. So a cardinal sign right,
each element has a cardinal sign, so there's four cardinal signs,
and for example, cancer is the cardinal water sign. Right.
(23:52):
Each element also has four fixed signs, so Leo is
the fixed fire sign that has to do with like persistence, perseverance,
resistance to change. And then lastly, mutable means you're flexible, adaptable, suggestible,
and Gemini is a mutable air sign. There's four different
mutable air signs, right, So you put them all together,
and what you have is in our interaction between the
(24:13):
elements and the signs themselves, so that you have sometimes
contradictory stuff, you have things that enhance other things. But
it's yet another layer. So now you have three layers
deep of interpretations just the signs, and it's up to
an astrologer to um ex extract whatever however they want
(24:36):
to read it. Basically like, it makes a point. You
can ask a hundred different astrologers to look at your
your chart and they might give you a hundred different readings. Yeah,
because it's ultimately the astrologers interpretation of the information that's
presented by these the signs and whether they're cardinal or fixture, mutable,
or what element they are, right, Well, they can also
(24:57):
be masculine or feminine, which Ed points out is not
really can't think of in terms of gender. It's more
like the concept of yin and yang, which makes a
little more sense. But when I look at mine Pisces
February twenty to March um mutable water, feminine. Okay, So
that's where I am. Emotional, sure, self sacrificing, sometimes, adaptable,
(25:22):
sometimes empathetic, almost always religious, not anymore versatile, Yeah, sure,
talkative sometimes you get paid for it. Yeah, and sometimes
I'm really quiet though, don't want to talk, you know,
but that goes against all astrology often takes on the
behaviors of others. I don't know about that. Creative, I hope. Impractical, No,
(25:45):
I'm pretty practical, so like but more like half and
half maybe would you say half? I feel like you did,
or maybe more? Maybe that sounds about right all right,
but even still, I mean, that doesn't prove anything, no,
of course not. But it did just get you to
think about your self. That's the whole point, right from
what I understand. That's how it tells you. So you've
(26:07):
got all these different layers to just you're just the
sign that you were born under right, But there's even
there's even deeper layers to the whole thing, right, that
has to do with the movement of the constellations or
the movement of the sun. Um. And it also has
(26:28):
to do with more than just the sign you were
born under. Like when you sit down and you do
an astrological chart, you um, you're you're basically looking at
the position of everything that's taken too into account in
the cosmos, rather than just where the constellation, what constellations
(26:48):
behind the summer you were born. Well, we're gonna dive
even deeper into this stuff after this message break, So Chuck,
(27:15):
we're talking about how we've got like the fixed layers, right,
and then depending on when you were born, where you're born,
there's a lot of stuff to take into account, meaning
like literally the minute Yeah, because um, one of the zodiacs, uh, well,
the houses when you add this other layer, the houses
(27:37):
of the zodiac, which are the same thing as the
zodiac signs, but they're different in this case, they represent
the twenty four hour movement of the Earth on its axis. Um.
So now you have the added layer of time, yeah,
to the to the moment that you were born, um.
To to create a genuine like astrology chart. So not
(27:58):
only you're taking into account time and your sun sign,
but you also want to look around if you're a
good astrologer, and say, okay, where was the moon? What
house was the was venus in? And you start to
you start to basically go through and find the position
of every planet, including the sun in the moon um
and all the moon are considered planets as far as
(28:20):
astrology goes, right, And then when you put all this
stuff together, there's a huge, extremely complex interplay between all
these different um components that are all supposed to point
to the person that you were born as. Right, this
is where I think I should say my beef now,
(28:42):
I think it's a good time for that. My beef
is that I couldn't find anywhere. And this is me
looking for science where there is none. Is why like
the position of the stars and they all affect who
you are and uh and and what you're gonna be Like,
all right, we'll explain that to me. Does it do that? Oh? Yeah? No,
(29:02):
that's what what forces? What scientific forces are behind this
zero that caused this? Like I get what you're saying. People,
The stars are aligned and these things are all in
a certain place and you're gonna be a certain way,
all right, Well, how does it do that? It doesn't.
That's where that's my beef. So I mean that's a
legitimate beef. Um, there's no how, No, there's not, there's none.
(29:27):
I guess I'm not hung up on that fact. I
think I just kind of accepted. And it's almost like
coming upon uh and the belief system of another culture
and know that, like I don't subscribe to it, but
I'm interested in, like what what they believe and how
it applies to their life. But that doesn't mean that
(29:49):
I believe in it. I'm just I'm just kind of
interested in in an academic sense. Yeah, yeah, well you're
we're curious people, so I get that. Just get hung
up on the fact that it doesn't actually and you'll
you'll be interested in I promise. No. I do think
it's interesting. And I used to read my horoscope here
and there just for fun, just the same way I
look at a fortune cookie. Um, it's just a parlor trick.
(30:11):
That to me though, it's not. But I think an
astrologer even if they even if they said, fine, you
don't believe in it, it's fine. But this is more
than a parlor trick, like they're really sitting down and
applying this. It takes a tremendous amount of time calculation
um a certain measure of of science. You have to
understand astronomy at least because you have to go figure
(30:32):
out when someone was born where, what was where? Right?
And so when you're sitting down and doing your chart,
you were born of Pisces, right, So the Pisces constellation
was behind the Sun. But where was Saturn? And why
would Saturn matter? Well, Saturn is a melancholy planet. So
if Saturn is in a house associated with happiness, um,
(30:56):
you might have uh thread of bitter weakness that runs
through your whole life. That might be one interpretation of it.
Or you might be happy sometimes and sad sometimes maybe
just every person ever sure that I mean, yeah, definitely.
And again I'm not explaining how this Porson is saying
like this is what an astrologer would would sit down
and think, or um, Mars is warlike, Well, if Mars
(31:20):
was in UM, I don't know, a house associated with aggressiveness,
you might get in a fight your whole life, according
to this astrology chart. So that's just each planet. Right,
Let's say that you have Mars in a an aggressive
house and you have Saturn in a happy house. How
(31:41):
did those interact with each other? How does that getting
in fights all the time? Uh, interact with the bitter
sweetness that runs through your life. And that's open to
interpretation as well. And that's where the astrology I think
I was saying astrologist earlier, is that even a word?
I think? So, Okay, it doesn't seem it seems like
I've heard that before. Well at anyway, that's where they
(32:01):
come into play, yes, with their varying interpretations, but not
just the interpretations. They're actually gonna sit down and figure
out what was where, what that means according to the
astrological tradition, and then the third step is for them
to um interpret it for you, you know what I mean. So,
(32:21):
I mean there is a tremendous amount of work to it,
from what I can tell, for a genuine astrological chart.
Your friend's mom hooked you up when you were yeah,
I mean she didn't dash it off in five minutes.
I'll tell you that that was math involved and angles
and stuff. So the main thing you're getting if you're
(32:42):
looking at like a newspaper or if you have if
your son up for some sort of internet daily horoscope
is it's usually some sort of personality profile, advice on
your life. Uh, maybe some sort of um map two
for finances you might want to think about, you know,
(33:03):
investing soon. That's where people probably get in trouble. Um.
But it's pretty much personal advice stuff, not so much
long term future type of thing, not like predicting your
future necessarily. Well, they do to the extent of like
you'll have a so so day to day. Yeah, yeah,
today will be rather unremarkable, yeah, or like a lot
(33:25):
of times it can be. I think it's it's like,
you know, today might be a good day to reach
out to an old friend, and if you follow that advice,
then that's great because your old friend probably would want
to hear from you. And then you have lunch with
that friend and it goes great, and you might say,
we'll see there, my my horoscope said to reach out
to an old friend and it went awesome, or if
(33:47):
it went really horribly, you'd be like, why are you
punishing these stars? Yeah? Or what if you get killed
on the way to the lunch, Like you don't hear
those stories. No, but that's the great thing about astrology.
It removes personal responsibility from your decisions. That's funny. And
I should say also, I wanna, I want to like
there are even more layers to the whole thing than
(34:09):
what I what I said. I I hope we kind
of got the point across that there's layer upon layer
upon layer, and they all interact with one another. But
I mean, like in a good astrologer will take into
account like whether planet was in retrograde and what that
means when you were born, you know, um, or if
it's in retrograde right now. Um, there's just so much
to it. I think that's what fascinates me. Well, it
(34:30):
makes a good point. Uh, if this is a true science,
then it should have it should pass the muster of
the of repeatable testing, which of course it doesn't know.
Um no, it really really doesn't. But some other people
might say, you know what this is, it's beyond science.
(34:52):
This is you shouldn't try and quantify in terms of science.
This is something that you can't you can't even understand it, right,
your beauny s cannot explain this, this outside that realm
to something that we don't know and understand. And hey,
I'm a science guy, but I'm not foolish enough to
think there isn't anything out there that I maybe I
(35:12):
don't know about or we can't prove. It's very healthy.
You know, my hat is off to you. You're forty
in and you don't even know it. Seriously, that's like,
to me, that's the the pinnacle of what a thinking
person can aspire to. Well, I think that's when you
stop looking, when you think that we you know, we've
got it all figured out, you know, especially when you
(35:35):
aggressively attack other people who say otherwise. That's if this
conversation is floating your boat. Go list In the Enlightenment episode,
that was good. That was a good one. I had
a lot to do with that. They have done studies though,
on the viability of astrology as far as you know,
are are you could do divorce rates UM? Are they
(35:57):
compatible or do they comply with um or correlate with
the compatibility of two people? Astrologically speaking, they don't. Yes,
you know, they're supposedly interaction amongst the signs where like
you know, uh, virgos don't get along with um, Capricorns
or something like that. Yeah, and that doesn't hold up
through scientific study, and if you cherry pick examples in
(36:19):
your life, of course you might think it does. Well. Yeah,
that's why a lot of people are like, astrology is right.
It's a selection bias, is what you're encountering. You're ignoring
the stuff that disproves it or that suggests that it's
not true, and instead just focusing on the amazing facts
where it lines up right. Right, that's a selection bias, right,
(36:40):
I think, so I need to know more about all
the different biases. It's interesting we should say another thing
that kind of suggests that astrology is not accurate. The
zodiac signs are no longer where they're supposed to be.
If you're going by your birth date. For example, I
was born into life. If so, I would be a cancer.
(37:02):
If you actually follow the constellations, I'm I'm a Gemini.
Never knew that. So. Geminis are um concerned with information,
highly literate, curious, adaptable, absent minded, love to travel. I
am a Gemini. So the reason why is because when
(37:22):
astrology was first created them the earth, the constellations were
lined up with where they were originally. As the Earth
rotates on its access at wobbles, and over the last
couple of thousand years, it's wobbled so that those constellations
are no longer where they were when they set them
(37:44):
three thousand years ago. So today we have totally different um,
totally different signs. What would mind be? Can so you
were born in the eyes of March, You're still a
Pisces man, I'm sorry that I am uh now I
am now a Gemini because it gotta moved. So let's
(38:06):
let's go through because I think a lot of people
don't know this, and NASA blogged about it a couple
of years ago and really caused a stir um. Jerry
still a cat ox, Jerry. Jerry's Birthday's April something right,
Jerry's birthday is what's your birthday? Your birthday's Valentine's Day.
(38:26):
I didn't know that. Jerry just said her birthday. It's
February fourteenth, because we have to edit out any Jerry talk. Right, Jerry,
what are you supposed to be? Normally? You are a Capricorn.
You are January twenty, February six As far as NASA
is concerned, you're a Capricorn. So it starts, and we
should say I don't think we said this, but zodiac
(38:47):
officially in the West starts with aries and moves on um.
So starting with Capricorn because NASA is like, now we're
gonna start with the beginning of the year Capricorn January
twentieth to February sixte okay, Aquarius is now February sixteenth
to March eleventh. And you'll notice these aren't necessarily thirty
(39:07):
day period. Yeah you were, uh Pisces March eleventh to
April eighteenth, Aries April eighteenth to May, taurusts May thirteenth
of June twenty one. It's a long one, uh Gemini
June one to July twenty that's me now, cancer July
twenty August. I used to be a cancer Leo August
(39:30):
tenth to September six Virgo September sixteenth of October, Libra
October November, Scorpio November twenty three to twenty nine. That's
six days. You've got six days to be a Scorpio.
It's kind of neat uh oh fucus. Yeah, that long
forgotten November twenty nine to December. That crazy. There's people
(39:52):
out there don't even know that they're that signed yeah,
or how to pronounce it right? No one does. No
one alive knows how to pronounce that. Uh. And then
Sagittarius December seventeenth to January. Wow, I don't even know
anything anymore. No, no one does, Chuck. I think this
is fascinating stuff that I've been thinking a lot lately
(40:12):
about what does shape your personality and what you become
in life as far as nature and nurture and some
people might throw this in there. I think we should
totally do a podcast on birth order. Oh yeah, that's
the good ones, super fascinating to me. Or whether, um,
whether hearing your name or the vibrations caused by saying
(40:36):
your own name throughout your life has an effect on
your personality. You heard that one? Yeah, supposedly the vibrations
are the frequency made from hearing and saying your own
name throughout your life makes your makes your personality a
certain one. Weird, Alan, It's probably not true, but it's interesting. Well,
we tease Ronald Reagan earlier. Well, we didn't tease Ronald
(40:59):
Reagan did, But we can't talk about astrology without talking
a little bit about the Reagan administration because uh in
nine uh ron and Nancy were uh out, it's sort
of exposed. Yeah, as is having a astrologer on the
(41:20):
payroll to the tune of about how much three grand
per what reading a month? Three grand a month? It's
not bad. No, this lady was working hard, Joan quickly
down under. That's her nickname woman. And it was revealed
that she uh wrote up star charts uh and basically
(41:41):
detailed even down to the minute, supposedly depending on who
you listen to, what Reagan's schedule should look like. Right,
so this lady was definitely doing mundane interrogatory and natal
astrology combined to create a chart. Yes, for sure. And
chief of staff On Reagan wrote in his memoir um,
(42:03):
I mean he I mean, this is is not a
matter of debate or anything. No, this is for for real.
But Don Regan wrote in his memoirs and he talked about, um,
you know, capturing the public's attention like that was a
big deal because it looked like what was going on
was going on, which was his schedule was kind of
being determined by an astrologist. Like you can't talk to
(42:25):
Gorby today. This is a bad day to propose the
salt treaty. Wait until you know. No, that's when you
talked to Gorby. And then Don Regan would be told
by Nancy, Uh he he should be talking to Gorbion
because met with Nancy only met ron once, supposedly, um
(42:45):
and and Nancy downplayed it a lot, of course, they
all tried to distance well. They said it was more
of a hobby. And and she definitely had no impact
on decisions. It was really just about scheduling, is what
they said, scheduling decisions. But she wrote a book, actually, uh,
miss Quigley, in was called this is the most on
(43:08):
the nose book title of all time. It was called
what does Jones say? Colin my seven years as White
House astrologer to Nancy and Ronald Reagan by me, do
you get it? Um? And she said, quote, I was
responsible for timing all press conferences, most speeches. The State
of the Union addresses the takeoffs and landings of Air
(43:30):
Force one. I picked the time of Ronald Reagan's debate
with Jimmy Carter and the two debates with Mondale, all
extended trips abroad as well as shorter trips and one
day excursions. End quote yeah, um, so yes. The leader
of the Free World arguably the most powerful American president
in recent memory, had his schedule determined by an astrologer.
(43:54):
So weird, I got a couple more things, all right,
what you got? So? Um, Apparently Americans around the time
of Reagan had hit like, basically a low in believing
in astrology. They were They did a poll after that
that news came out, and they found that American belief
overall in astrology um was a twelve percent, which is
(44:17):
down from this is an eight eight, which is down
from ten years before, which makes total sense, like coming
off of the the hippie age and the goofy seven
sign into the very like kind of cynical late eighties. Uh,
it aligns perfectly right the star. So somebody forgot to
send Nancy and Ron that memo. So in two thousand
(44:40):
and four, another poll found that it had gone back
up to no idea why. And then another poll I
saw that asked something different rather than do you believe
in astrology, asked, um, would you say that astrology is
quote not at all scientific? In two thousand four, sixty
six percent of Americans said at two was not scientific.
(45:03):
So basically they don't believe in astrology. And then in
two um percent said that, so apparently belief in astrology
is still on the increase. Interesting, even more interesting, in
China of the public says they don't believe in astrology
compared to about here. And then lastly, I have one
(45:24):
more story ready, and there's actually a blog post you
can go recalled the Genius Mural at St. John's. Okay, yeah,
it's from years back, but I just came across the
story is amazing. There's this place called St. John's Anglican Church.
It's in Lunenburg, Nova Scotia and um. It was built
(45:44):
in seventeen fifty four and it was built with a
mural on the ceiling of the night sky with gilded stars.
And they were remodeling the church and they wanted to
redo the mural right recreated exactly as it had been.
But they realized they didn't have any dead on photographs
of it, so they had to kind of like figure
out what to do. So they hired an astronomer and
(46:07):
he started poking around into it and he realized that
the mural, which had been constructed in seventeen fifty four,
was the exact scene of the night sky over Lunenburg
on December one which is in the Christian tradition is
(46:28):
the night Christ was born. Somebody in seventeen fifty four
accurately calculated what the sky had looked like fifty four
years before on December and turned it into a mural.
Isn't that amazing? I love that story. That's astrology and
what's the name of that story, The Genius Genius Mural
(46:50):
at St. John's. Thanks man, Are you got anything else? Nope?
I could talk about this all day. Are you sure
I think we did right by it. If you want
to know more about astrology, go read Joan Quigley's book.
And since I said Joan quickly, it's time for listener, ma'il.
(47:11):
I'm gonna call this Star Wars Action figure and neared, Hey, guys,
love the show like to I can say, like all
the other fans, is definitely my favorite thing to listen to.
My transplant to Texas from Tennessee, and I always get
excited when I can make that long drive back home
and binge on your interesting material just listen to Action
figures and was thrilled to hear you talk about Star
(47:33):
Wars action figures. I'm one of those Star Wars guys.
You mentioned that read away too much of the fan
fiction and new way too many characters, uh, too many
of the character names. I wanted to share a fact
I thought was interesting about the Kinner toys and two
of the Bounty Hunter characters seen in an Empire Strikes Back.
Kinner went originally packaging the characters mislabeled for Loam probably
(47:59):
not even pronouncing that right. Uh for the number four
dash l O M originally the droid and zook Us
z u c k Uss originally the bug looking guy,
and switch their names. How somebody got fired for that?
Do you believe it? The name stuck into and you
(48:20):
can see on newer packaging of the Hasbro toys that
their names have been switched back. I always thought it
was interesting and interesting. Mishap. Thanks for all you guys do,
and I've learned so much and it's love referencing your
show every chance I get. Sincerely, Harrison for Adam West
No ps, sadly I'm not him. Wow, I agreat would
(48:42):
that be man? That that nice email Adam that was
full of drama, suspense facts and I could do my
nerd voice man, which I completely stole from him. I
just want to make that clear, claiming it at your
own right to homage to Conan yep. Uh well, Adam,
thank you. That was a great one. If you want
(49:03):
to get in touch with us, like Adam did, you
can join us on Facebook, dot com, slash Stuff you
Should Know. You can hang out with Chuck too at
Charles W. Chuck Bryant at Facebook. You can hang out
with me on Twitter, Josh Underscore, UM Underscore, Clark uh
and you can also hang up with us at s
y SK podcast. Send us an email to uh stuff Podcast,
(49:24):
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and we're doing it rare Sunday afternoon jam, so that
is Sunday, January at one pm. You can come see
(00:44):
us live and tickets are gonna go fast, So go
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It's one of our favorite cities to perform in and
uh go to s Sketch Fest dot com Oakland, San Francisco,
We will see you soon. Welcome to stuff you should
(01:07):
know from how Stuff Works dot com. Hey, you welcome
to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles W. Chuck Ryant,
and Jerry's over here and we're just relaxing here in
Studio one A. So this is stuff you should know. Oh,
(01:30):
I thought it was astro chat. Yeah, that's what we
would call has a great name or horoscope or podcast?
I say horror scope. No, you shouldn't say that. No,
would you ever want to do a horoscope or astrology podcast?
Oh do you mean on its own? Yeah? No, I
(01:51):
would not see that. Well, we were talking about this
briefly until I didn't do it this time, But normally,
whenever this is a secret Chuck though about to share
with everybody. Yeah, if we start to talk and get
too involved in the topic before we start recording, usually
one of us will be like, stop, stop, this is
golden to save it for the podcast. We didn't do
(02:14):
that this time. I think we just kind of naturally
just continue conversations. But um, you were saying that you are,
and I don't know if you're ready to admit this
or not this early in the episode. You're a little
incredulous about horoscopes and astrology. Yes, okay, um, I am
as well. But I think the difference between us is
(02:35):
you're just kind of like, come on. And as I
was researching it more and more, I was like, this
is really interesting. I could say here and read about
this like all day, and now that it's been brought up,
I'm like, I could probably do a skeptical but not
with the aim to like destroy it, but just from
a skeptic standpoint podcast on astrology. I think that that
would fascinate me personally, and like day maybe, so yeah,
(03:03):
I think we we got on that because I was
having a hard time wrapping my head around a couple
of i'm not gonna say scientific parts but a couple
of the science sciency parts of this, and I kept
going back to like, who cares, It's not real, So
it's hard for me to commit to the learning of it.
(03:24):
And and we typically have a thing where it's like,
you know, poo poo people's beliefs. Yeah, we're not really
doing that here, but there have been a couple of
occasions where we just kind of like, this is there's
just no way. One of them was crop circles. Yeah, um,
I'm I don't plan on poop pooing this throughout. But
I think it's good for us to state our beliefs
(03:47):
from the get go, all right, so that we don't
mislead anybody who's who does believe in it. Well, here's
I did. I had my astrological chart done once. Um
you did. Yeah, I didn't like seek it out and
pay for it. My friend's mom is really into this,
and she asked me one time, She's like, do you
want me to do your chart? And I'm sure? So
(04:09):
she did my chart and I remember looking at it
and thinking like, wow, a lot of this, you know.
It kind of like when you look at your son
sign and we'll go ahead and say that's what most like,
like when somebody says what sign are you? Yeah, or
if you read your daily horoscope, it's it's based on
your sun sign. Um. I would look at things like that,
or like my whatever my year is on the Chinese zodiac,
(04:30):
can think like, oh wow, I am some of these things.
But then I'm like, not about half of those things.
So uh, I just think it's interesting. And I think
it's interesting as well, but again from a standpoint of
where I don't actually believe it's effective or real. But
just the thought put into it. And Ed wrote this
(04:50):
article the Grabster, and he makes a really good point.
He saying like, even if you don't believe it or
not getting your your chart done is interesting in and
of itself. I think so sure, And at the very least,
it's going to force you to be a little more
introspective about yourself than than you normally would be, because
you're being presented with basically like here's your personality according
(05:11):
to the Cosmos, and it's you can't help but think, what, like,
am I introspective? Am I do I set things on fire?
I think anything that can spur self reflection is valuable
in some ways. Yes, I think that's where interested. Like
I would go to a palm reader just to know
what that's like. But I wouldn't leave thinking like, oh boy,
(05:31):
my life is set out for me. Yeah, exactly. You
know Nancy Reagan, Well we'll get to that, so but spoiler,
I am not Nancy Reagan. We we should probably say
for those of you who are confused, they're like, how
are they pooh pooing this? Like this is the science
of of Niel's deGrasse Tyson and Carl Sagan. I don't understand.
(05:53):
We're talking about astrology, not astronomy. Um. So astrology is
basically the idea UM that distant objects out on the cosmos, planets, stars,
constellations specifically have an influence on our lives and events
on the planet. And it's very old. Um. I saw
(06:16):
it as far back as five thousand years ago. People
were starting to develop astrological systems. UM. I saw more
frequently three thousand years ago with the Babylonians, that Western
astrology kind of started to develop. Should we talk about
history a little bit? I think I finally figured out
my beef with it. Should I hold on to that
(06:38):
or should we talk about history first? That's up to you, man,
how do you want it to play out? I just
don't forget if you hang onto it. All right, I'm
gonna write beef at the top of my page. It's
gonna you're gonna carrying yourself to shoot a duck later on. Okay,
So it's like memento. I'll come back to that. So
(06:59):
his street. Um, we need to go back in the
way back machine, the way way back to ancient times,
to Babylon. Yeah, when basically people mean we are going
back to Babylon, basically when people were like looking around
(07:22):
at everything and going on, don't get it. Why is
all this stuff happening? Why did the earth just open
up and swallow fish mail? Why is it raining? Why
is it not raining? Why are the crops doing well?
Are they doing terribly? Yeah? Why why is that sun? Uh?
Up half the day and down half the day. Uh So,
as humans started to get a little more I don't
(07:44):
know about intelligent, but um, inquisitive, inquisitive. I was about
to say, answer seeky, but inquisitive is the word for that.
As they started to get a little more answer seeky,
they started to make things up. Um that made them
feel better about what was going on, right, I mean
they they did apply a certain measure of science too,
(08:06):
which is where a lot of people who believe in
astrology get the idea that it's scientific at some in
some way, shape or form, because it does involve the movement,
studying and tracking the movement of the planets and the
constellations the cosmos. Right, Yeah, And that makes a good point.
Back then, astronomy and astrology were the same thing, right, right,
(08:27):
Because you took those observations astronomy and then you you
used them to predict or explain the stuff that was
going on here on Earth, which we now call astrology, right,
but yeah, I don't even know what they called it
back then. They called it reality, probably so. But it
wasn't just the Babylonians who were doing this, Like all
(08:48):
over the planet. Basically every culture that's ever lived had
some sort of astrological system. Yeah, the Aztec and Incas
and the mines in South America they had zodiac of
twenty symbols, including things like earthquake and ape and rain
and um. When they died out they took it with them,
(09:10):
like that doesn't have any that didn't seep into modern
forms of astrology, like the Babylonians. No Spanish Jesuit was saying,
so can you explain your astrological system to an Inca
emperor that was being tortured to death? Uh? What else?
The Chinese, of course, they had their own um by
a thousand BC, and they had twenty four divisions in
(09:33):
a year. Yeah, they had like the most complex one
probably of all time. Not surprising. Um, I don't know
why that's not surprising. They're complex people. Maybe. Well, when
I think of the zodiac, I think of the Western
zodiac and then Chinese zodiac. Yeah, me too. And the
only thing I knew about Chinese zodiac coming in was
(09:53):
what year animal? I was what are you? From the
menu at the Chinese restaurant? That's where I learned it too. Yeah,
I'm the dog. Oh, I'm a dragon wolf? Jerry? Are
you a cat? She just me out that that was weird.
It was her first instant. There is a year the cat? Huh?
(10:18):
That al Stewart's song Are you the Year of the fish? Jerry?
All right? Jerry's said that she was the ox year
of the Ox. But when but when she's called upon
to do it? Animals sound? I think it's cute. What
if oxes oxen me out? Maybe an ox that was
raised by cats and it imprinted might learn to me out.
(10:39):
I think that's what Jerry was saying. This is getting silly.
So the horoscope points getting silly. It is is there
gas looking in? Uh? One of our events that I
don't know about? Um? All right, So back to China.
UM twenty four divisions twenty eight part lunar zodiac and
then the twelve branches that correspond to the animal, and
(11:00):
then those animals have further subdivisions. Uh, like you could
be a fire dog or a water dragon, right, which
we'll get to that stuff in a minute too. Yeah.
And I didn't know that you could be like an
elemental animal. I thought it was just straight up animal.
I did not know that either. Yeah. Like, that's one
thing about astrology. No matter what system you're looking at,
(11:21):
there's like, oh, there's this one layer and then let's
add this other layer and another layer in another layer.
That's so fascinates me. It's just the thought that's going
into it. What about Babylon though, what do you mean? Well,
I mean, ohh that's like the origin of the Western Yeah,
and here is where it becomes painfully obvious that astrology
(11:43):
can't possibly be correct or real. You know what you're
about to say. So our idea of the constellations here
in the West came from the ancient Babylonian people and
astronomers and astrologers who looked up and they said, oh,
Mars is red, so blog can be read. So Mars
is probably associated with war. Right. They just kind of
(12:06):
just made that up. They made it up, and that
is fundamentally the basis of astrology. Stuff that was made
up by the Babylonians can't possibly be true. It's just
basically a fact. The other big thing is the Babylonians
divided the zodiac into twelve equal parts. But um, according
(12:26):
to their own stories, there were thirteen constellations in the zodiac,
so they just picked one and left it out. Yes,
which was choose? I like how you said that? I
don't know, man, I've never tried to say that out loud.
O P h I U C h U S. It's
(12:48):
like the hidden zodiac symbol, well, not hidden. They just
kind of said, twelve kind of works out better, so
let's just leave it out. Yeah. And if the Babylonians
prove anything, it's that for thousands of years humans have
all has preferred things to be nice and tidy and neat.
They don't like it to be messy because if you
really look at what they were trying to do, it's
super messy. So, for example, if you are dividing the
(13:10):
night sky into twelve, trying to assign a month to
each horoscope, you've got constellations slopping over into other um
zodiac signs. UM. The the actual movement of the constellations
behind the sun UH is way less than a thirty
day standard. I think Scorpio is actually in line with
(13:33):
the sun for about seven days out of the year,
whereas um, one of one of the other ones is
around for like forty five days. I believe. I don't
think we even said what that means, though, maybe we're
we should we should start from the beginning, should we?
We got the history down? Do you want to take
a break first? Uh? Yeah, why not. I'll go to
check my horsecope and see if it says we should continue. Okay, Well,
(14:15):
lucky for us, the horoscope said finished show. It said
ask again. Later it said finished show. Take it easy
on me, Yeah, he layoff jerks. I had even resolved
to not poo poo astrology. I think the first thing
I did was launched into it. Yeah, I'm sorry, astrology.
(14:36):
So we should get to the basics of all this,
and um, we will this. There's two things that we
have to point out. One, we would have to spend
years researching astrology to really get everything right. Too, even
if we spent years researching astrology, we would still get
(14:57):
stuff wrong depending on who you are, because there's a
of contradictory things like, for example, I saw that the
moon is a fire sign. Also saw that the moon
is associated with water. How is that? Well, I think
there's just been so many permutations over the years that
it's you know, been kind of mixed together. Okay, so
(15:17):
we are going to get things that will contradict your
understanding of astrology, I'm quite sure. But for the most part,
I feel like if we're sticking to the basics of it,
we can get it fairly right, right, Yeah, I mean
the most basic thing is sun sign astrology, which is
really just seeing where each planet was when you were
born the day you were born. That's the most simplistic
(15:38):
way to look at it, right, And when you ask
somebody what's your sign? What's your sign? See, okay, I'm cancer.
All that's say is that on the date of our births,
the Pisces constellation allegedly was behind the sun as it rose, right,
and when I was born, the Cancer constellation was behind
(16:01):
the sun when it rose, and the I like to
take the sunshine a little brighter when we were born.
But probably I can't prove that, no, but you can
just make a pretty good assumption. So, um, the way
that you do this is you basically take the Sun
and the Earth in its orbit around the Sun, which
equals a year. And you draw a line, an arrow
(16:21):
even from the Earth and may put it flat, like
it flat? I forgot to say that. Uh, And you
make it. You draw an arrow from the Earth through
the Sun and then out the other side of the Sun.
And wherever that arrow is pointing, which is actually what
the opposite side of the Sun, opposite to Earth, whatever
constellation that is, that's your sun. Right, Pretty simple stuff. Right,
(16:44):
So you can think of the if if you've thought
of a circle around each if you looked at it
as a circle, each sign would be its own little
zone zone exactly. A pizza slice, a pie slice, whatever.
If you have a sweet tooth or a salty tooth,
you're gonna go with either one of those. What about cake?
(17:06):
I guess a cake too. Are you cake or pie both?
Mm hmm. What's your favorite cake? I like a good
coconut cream cake or coconut frosting cake. I like, um,
it's your favorite pie? Probably cream pie? No, actually that
sounds gross. I would say a key a good key
(17:30):
lime pie. But what does cheesecake constitute pie? I think
you've just opened up a Hornet's nest. Well, I love cheesecake. Basically,
I don't really discriminate. I've learned. I recently started trying
cherry pie, and I was like, where have you been
my whole life? Why did I ever discriminate against you know,
it's just been sitting there in the pie safe, rotting
(17:52):
because no one eats cherry pie anymore. Yeah, and then
I came along and ate all the rotten cherry pie
and loved it all right, what about you cake pie? Oh?
I love the good key lime pies like you were saying.
But um, I don't eat a lot of either. You know,
I don't just keep like cake and pie around the house.
And I don't really eat dessert in the restaurants either.
(18:16):
Um so just neither. Probably more cake, just because cakes
are the occasion dessert, like people bringing cake for birthdays
or whatever. Any any like Public's cake is awesome, their
standard cake with cream icing. Yeah, yeah, I never had it. Oh, chuck,
I slice. I like a good pecan pie. I eat.
I eat the pecan now, But I used to not
(18:38):
like the nuts. I would just slice that off because
I like the jelly. You'd give rid of the candy
pecans yeah, but I don't now because now I'm growing up. Okay,
I just eat the jelly man pecan pie, pumpkin pie. Sure,
all right, I'm going all in on pie now that
I think about it. Okay, pie, wait till you try
the public's cake. Then where are we? Oh? Sorry? We
(19:01):
were talking about how slices, right, and each of one
of those slices one of the twelve constellations of the zodiac. Right. Okay,
So wherever wherever the Earth, whatever constellation is opposite the
Earth on the other side of the sign, that's your
sun sign. And when you were born, that constellation has
(19:21):
a bunch of different personality traits and they are basically
imbued onto you. You were born under that sign, which
means you're going to have those personality traits. That's the
point of what's called the sun sign. That's right. Um.
In western astrology there you can subdivide it into three
groups mundane astrology, and this is basically what what is
(19:42):
your aim uh with these Mundane astrology is examines world
events and makes predictions about big things like the economy
and war. Uh. Interrogatory astrology. It seeks to make predictions
very specific ones or analyzes for for like events or
your life, maybe like for you the individual. Yeah, more
(20:04):
like you say, it's like when you when somebody says
they'll consult the stars to see what the best course
of action is. That's what they're talking about, which seems
like it overlaps with uh the last one. I think
all three of them could definite. Like, if you're doing
like a serious chart to figure out something you you
would probably do all three. So what would that be?
Natal astrology? Uh? Birth astrology? Yeah, and that's when you
(20:29):
read your daily horoscope. Uh. And that's based on the
idea that everything that happens to someone is expressed by
the very beginning, like that moment you were born, right,
But ironically the moment you're born, not the moment you
were conceived. So really that's when the astrology starts, not
the moment you were conceived, but the moment you were born. Right.
(20:49):
But the idea, this law of beginning says that the
moment you're born, the stars basically make everything in your
life predestined and therefore predictable if the person knows how
to read the stars correctly. That's the basis of astrology. Yeah,
and then what you would come up with these predictions
this chart that is your horoscope, that's right, and then uh,
(21:11):
there are different um the signs that can be subgrouped
into four elements you've heard of, Like I'm a water sign,
your water sign. We're both water signs, how about that? Yeah,
so fire sign that would be Aries Leo, Sagittarius uh enthusiasm, action, leadership,
open to change. Water signs besides cancer and Pisces who
(21:34):
get Scorpio um emotion, sensitivity and compassion. Earth signs Taurus Virgo,
Capricorn practicality and to focus on material goals. And then
air signs Jim and I Libra and Aquarius uh Into
signifies intellect, and those are the big groupings, the elemental groupings, right,
So here we've kind of come up with another layer, right, Yeah,
(21:58):
Like since each each sign and on its own has
its own qualities like for example, um, the cancer is
a very domestic, imaginative, thorough shy, interested in the past
and tradition. That's me all over? Is it really all
those things? Yeah? Basically, Um, but the then you lay
(22:19):
over the water sign, right that it's a water sign,
so that adds to the emotion or the sensitivity or
the compassion of it. That the where it really starts
to get interesting is the idea that there's a relationship
between the element and the sign, and those are with
the cardinal fixed or mutable um right, whether or not
(22:43):
you're resistant to change, you're able to change, or what's
cardinal just general movement. Cardinal is that it moves right.
So so these three things, it's like a whole other
layer and and basically um so they had to do
with the solsticism that equal an ox is. We should say.
There's a couple of kinds of Western astrology. One is sidereal,
(23:07):
which follows the movement of the stars, so your birth
sign is sidereal astrology. There's another one called tropical that
really just has nothing to do with the stars. It's
the idea that around the in the cosmos, the zodiac
is fixed and it really has nothing to do with
the stars. It has to do with the sun's relative
(23:28):
position to the horizon, so it has to do with
things like solstices and equinoxes. So when you go into
the tropical um type of astrology, that's when the cardinal
fixed a mutable comes up. So a cardinal sign right,
each element has a cardinal sign, so there's four cardinal signs,
and for example, cancer is the cardinal water sign. Right.
(23:52):
Each element also has four fixed signs, so Leo is
the fixed fire sign that has to do with like persistence, perseverance,
resistance to change. And then lastly, mutable means you're flexible, adaptable, suggestible,
and Gemini is a mutable air sign. There's four different
mutable air signs, right, So you put them all together,
and what you have is in our interaction between the
(24:13):
elements and the signs themselves, so that you have sometimes
contradictory stuff, you have things that enhance other things. But
it's yet another layer. So now you have three layers
deep of interpretations just the signs, and it's up to
an astrologer to um ex extract whatever however they want
(24:36):
to read it. Basically like, it makes a point. You
can ask a hundred different astrologers to look at your
your chart and they might give you a hundred different readings. Yeah,
because it's ultimately the astrologers interpretation of the information that's
presented by these the signs and whether they're cardinal or fixture, mutable,
or what element they are, right, Well, they can also
(24:57):
be masculine or feminine, which Ed points out is not
really can't think of in terms of gender. It's more
like the concept of yin and yang, which makes a
little more sense. But when I look at mine Pisces
February twenty to March um mutable water, feminine. Okay, So
that's where I am. Emotional, sure, self sacrificing, sometimes, adaptable,
(25:22):
sometimes empathetic, almost always religious, not anymore versatile, Yeah, sure,
talkative sometimes you get paid for it. Yeah, and sometimes
I'm really quiet though, don't want to talk, you know,
but that goes against all astrology often takes on the
behaviors of others. I don't know about that. Creative, I hope. Impractical, No,
(25:45):
I'm pretty practical, so like but more like half and
half maybe would you say half? I feel like you did,
or maybe more? Maybe that sounds about right all right,
but even still, I mean, that doesn't prove anything, no,
of course not. But it did just get you to
think about your self. That's the whole point, right from
what I understand. That's how it tells you. So you've
(26:07):
got all these different layers to just you're just the
sign that you were born under right, But there's even
there's even deeper layers to the whole thing, right, that
has to do with the movement of the constellations or
the movement of the sun. Um. And it also has
(26:28):
to do with more than just the sign you were
born under. Like when you sit down and you do
an astrological chart, you um, you're you're basically looking at
the position of everything that's taken too into account in
the cosmos, rather than just where the constellation, what constellations
(26:48):
behind the summer you were born. Well, we're gonna dive
even deeper into this stuff after this message break, So Chuck,
(27:15):
we're talking about how we've got like the fixed layers, right,
and then depending on when you were born, where you're born,
there's a lot of stuff to take into account, meaning
like literally the minute Yeah, because um, one of the zodiacs, uh, well,
the houses when you add this other layer, the houses
(27:37):
of the zodiac, which are the same thing as the
zodiac signs, but they're different in this case, they represent
the twenty four hour movement of the Earth on its axis. Um.
So now you have the added layer of time, yeah,
to the to the moment that you were born, um.
To to create a genuine like astrology chart. So not
(27:58):
only you're taking into account time and your sun sign,
but you also want to look around if you're a
good astrologer, and say, okay, where was the moon? What
house was the was venus in? And you start to
you start to basically go through and find the position
of every planet, including the sun in the moon um
and all the moon are considered planets as far as
(28:20):
astrology goes, right, And then when you put all this
stuff together, there's a huge, extremely complex interplay between all
these different um components that are all supposed to point
to the person that you were born as. Right, this
is where I think I should say my beef now,
(28:42):
I think it's a good time for that. My beef
is that I couldn't find anywhere. And this is me
looking for science where there is none. Is why like
the position of the stars and they all affect who
you are and uh and and what you're gonna be Like,
all right, we'll explain that to me. Does it do that? Oh? Yeah? No,
(29:02):
that's what what forces? What scientific forces are behind this
zero that caused this? Like I get what you're saying. People,
The stars are aligned and these things are all in
a certain place and you're gonna be a certain way,
all right, Well, how does it do that? It doesn't.
That's where that's my beef. So I mean that's a
legitimate beef. Um, there's no how, No, there's not, there's none.
(29:27):
I guess I'm not hung up on that fact. I
think I just kind of accepted. And it's almost like
coming upon uh and the belief system of another culture
and know that, like I don't subscribe to it, but
I'm interested in, like what what they believe and how
it applies to their life. But that doesn't mean that
(29:49):
I believe in it. I'm just I'm just kind of
interested in in an academic sense. Yeah, yeah, well you're
we're curious people, so I get that. Just get hung
up on the fact that it doesn't actually and you'll
you'll be interested in I promise. No. I do think
it's interesting. And I used to read my horoscope here
and there just for fun, just the same way I
look at a fortune cookie. Um, it's just a parlor trick.
(30:11):
That to me though, it's not. But I think an
astrologer even if they even if they said, fine, you
don't believe in it, it's fine. But this is more
than a parlor trick, like they're really sitting down and
applying this. It takes a tremendous amount of time calculation
um a certain measure of of science. You have to
understand astronomy at least because you have to go figure
(30:32):
out when someone was born where, what was where? Right?
And so when you're sitting down and doing your chart,
you were born of Pisces, right, So the Pisces constellation
was behind the Sun. But where was Saturn? And why
would Saturn matter? Well, Saturn is a melancholy planet. So
if Saturn is in a house associated with happiness, um,
(30:56):
you might have uh thread of bitter weakness that runs
through your whole life. That might be one interpretation of it.
Or you might be happy sometimes and sad sometimes maybe
just every person ever sure that I mean, yeah, definitely.
And again I'm not explaining how this Porson is saying
like this is what an astrologer would would sit down
and think, or um, Mars is warlike, Well, if Mars
(31:20):
was in UM, I don't know, a house associated with aggressiveness,
you might get in a fight your whole life, according
to this astrology chart. So that's just each planet. Right,
Let's say that you have Mars in a an aggressive
house and you have Saturn in a happy house. How
(31:41):
did those interact with each other? How does that getting
in fights all the time? Uh, interact with the bitter
sweetness that runs through your life. And that's open to
interpretation as well. And that's where the astrology I think
I was saying astrologist earlier, is that even a word?
I think? So, Okay, it doesn't seem it seems like
I've heard that before. Well at anyway, that's where they
(32:01):
come into play, yes, with their varying interpretations, but not
just the interpretations. They're actually gonna sit down and figure
out what was where, what that means according to the
astrological tradition, and then the third step is for them
to um interpret it for you, you know what I mean. So,
(32:21):
I mean there is a tremendous amount of work to it,
from what I can tell, for a genuine astrological chart.
Your friend's mom hooked you up when you were yeah,
I mean she didn't dash it off in five minutes.
I'll tell you that that was math involved and angles
and stuff. So the main thing you're getting if you're
(32:42):
looking at like a newspaper or if you have if
your son up for some sort of internet daily horoscope
is it's usually some sort of personality profile, advice on
your life. Uh, maybe some sort of um map two
for finances you might want to think about, you know,
(33:03):
investing soon. That's where people probably get in trouble. Um.
But it's pretty much personal advice stuff, not so much
long term future type of thing, not like predicting your
future necessarily. Well, they do to the extent of like
you'll have a so so day to day. Yeah, yeah,
today will be rather unremarkable, yeah, or like a lot
(33:25):
of times it can be. I think it's it's like,
you know, today might be a good day to reach
out to an old friend, and if you follow that advice,
then that's great because your old friend probably would want
to hear from you. And then you have lunch with
that friend and it goes great, and you might say,
we'll see there, my my horoscope said to reach out
to an old friend and it went awesome, or if
(33:47):
it went really horribly, you'd be like, why are you
punishing these stars? Yeah? Or what if you get killed
on the way to the lunch, Like you don't hear
those stories. No, but that's the great thing about astrology.
It removes personal responsibility from your decisions. That's funny. And
I should say also, I wanna, I want to like
there are even more layers to the whole thing than
(34:09):
what I what I said. I I hope we kind
of got the point across that there's layer upon layer
upon layer, and they all interact with one another. But
I mean, like in a good astrologer will take into
account like whether planet was in retrograde and what that
means when you were born, you know, um, or if
it's in retrograde right now. Um, there's just so much
to it. I think that's what fascinates me. Well, it
(34:30):
makes a good point. Uh, if this is a true science,
then it should have it should pass the muster of
the of repeatable testing, which of course it doesn't know.
Um no, it really really doesn't. But some other people
might say, you know what this is, it's beyond science.
(34:52):
This is you shouldn't try and quantify in terms of science.
This is something that you can't you can't even understand it, right,
your beauny s cannot explain this, this outside that realm
to something that we don't know and understand. And hey,
I'm a science guy, but I'm not foolish enough to
think there isn't anything out there that I maybe I
(35:12):
don't know about or we can't prove. It's very healthy.
You know, my hat is off to you. You're forty
in and you don't even know it. Seriously, that's like,
to me, that's the the pinnacle of what a thinking
person can aspire to. Well, I think that's when you
stop looking, when you think that we you know, we've
got it all figured out, you know, especially when you
(35:35):
aggressively attack other people who say otherwise. That's if this
conversation is floating your boat. Go list In the Enlightenment episode,
that was good. That was a good one. I had
a lot to do with that. They have done studies though,
on the viability of astrology as far as you know,
are are you could do divorce rates UM? Are they
(35:57):
compatible or do they comply with um or correlate with
the compatibility of two people? Astrologically speaking, they don't. Yes,
you know, they're supposedly interaction amongst the signs where like
you know, uh, virgos don't get along with um, Capricorns
or something like that. Yeah, and that doesn't hold up
through scientific study, and if you cherry pick examples in
(36:19):
your life, of course you might think it does. Well. Yeah,
that's why a lot of people are like, astrology is right.
It's a selection bias, is what you're encountering. You're ignoring
the stuff that disproves it or that suggests that it's
not true, and instead just focusing on the amazing facts
where it lines up right. Right, that's a selection bias, right,
(36:40):
I think, so I need to know more about all
the different biases. It's interesting we should say another thing
that kind of suggests that astrology is not accurate. The
zodiac signs are no longer where they're supposed to be.
If you're going by your birth date. For example, I
was born into life. If so, I would be a cancer.
(37:02):
If you actually follow the constellations, I'm I'm a Gemini.
Never knew that. So. Geminis are um concerned with information,
highly literate, curious, adaptable, absent minded, love to travel. I
am a Gemini. So the reason why is because when
(37:22):
astrology was first created them the earth, the constellations were
lined up with where they were originally. As the Earth
rotates on its access at wobbles, and over the last
couple of thousand years, it's wobbled so that those constellations
are no longer where they were when they set them
(37:44):
three thousand years ago. So today we have totally different um,
totally different signs. What would mind be? Can so you
were born in the eyes of March, You're still a
Pisces man, I'm sorry that I am uh now I
am now a Gemini because it gotta moved. So let's
(38:06):
let's go through because I think a lot of people
don't know this, and NASA blogged about it a couple
of years ago and really caused a stir um. Jerry
still a cat ox, Jerry. Jerry's Birthday's April something right,
Jerry's birthday is what's your birthday? Your birthday's Valentine's Day.
(38:26):
I didn't know that. Jerry just said her birthday. It's
February fourteenth, because we have to edit out any Jerry talk. Right, Jerry,
what are you supposed to be? Normally? You are a Capricorn.
You are January twenty, February six As far as NASA
is concerned, you're a Capricorn. So it starts, and we
should say I don't think we said this, but zodiac
(38:47):
officially in the West starts with aries and moves on um.
So starting with Capricorn because NASA is like, now we're
gonna start with the beginning of the year Capricorn January
twentieth to February sixte okay, Aquarius is now February sixteenth
to March eleventh. And you'll notice these aren't necessarily thirty
(39:07):
day period. Yeah you were, uh Pisces March eleventh to
April eighteenth, Aries April eighteenth to May, taurusts May thirteenth
of June twenty one. It's a long one, uh Gemini
June one to July twenty that's me now, cancer July
twenty August. I used to be a cancer Leo August
(39:30):
tenth to September six Virgo September sixteenth of October, Libra
October November, Scorpio November twenty three to twenty nine. That's
six days. You've got six days to be a Scorpio.
It's kind of neat uh oh fucus. Yeah, that long
forgotten November twenty nine to December. That crazy. There's people
(39:52):
out there don't even know that they're that signed yeah,
or how to pronounce it right? No one does. No
one alive knows how to pronounce that. Uh. And then
Sagittarius December seventeenth to January. Wow, I don't even know
anything anymore. No, no one does, Chuck. I think this
is fascinating stuff that I've been thinking a lot lately
(40:12):
about what does shape your personality and what you become
in life as far as nature and nurture and some
people might throw this in there. I think we should
totally do a podcast on birth order. Oh yeah, that's
the good ones, super fascinating to me. Or whether, um,
whether hearing your name or the vibrations caused by saying
(40:36):
your own name throughout your life has an effect on
your personality. You heard that one? Yeah, supposedly the vibrations
are the frequency made from hearing and saying your own
name throughout your life makes your makes your personality a
certain one. Weird, Alan, It's probably not true, but it's interesting. Well,
we tease Ronald Reagan earlier. Well, we didn't tease Ronald
(40:59):
Reagan did, But we can't talk about astrology without talking
a little bit about the Reagan administration because uh in
nine uh ron and Nancy were uh out, it's sort
of exposed. Yeah, as is having a astrologer on the
(41:20):
payroll to the tune of about how much three grand
per what reading a month? Three grand a month? It's
not bad. No, this lady was working hard, Joan quickly
down under. That's her nickname woman. And it was revealed
that she uh wrote up star charts uh and basically
(41:41):
detailed even down to the minute, supposedly depending on who
you listen to, what Reagan's schedule should look like. Right,
so this lady was definitely doing mundane interrogatory and natal
astrology combined to create a chart. Yes, for sure. And
chief of staff On Reagan wrote in his memoir um,
(42:03):
I mean he I mean, this is is not a
matter of debate or anything. No, this is for for real.
But Don Regan wrote in his memoirs and he talked about, um,
you know, capturing the public's attention like that was a
big deal because it looked like what was going on
was going on, which was his schedule was kind of
being determined by an astrologist. Like you can't talk to
(42:25):
Gorby today. This is a bad day to propose the
salt treaty. Wait until you know. No, that's when you
talked to Gorby. And then Don Regan would be told
by Nancy, Uh he he should be talking to Gorbion
because met with Nancy only met ron once, supposedly, um
(42:45):
and and Nancy downplayed it a lot, of course, they
all tried to distance well. They said it was more
of a hobby. And and she definitely had no impact
on decisions. It was really just about scheduling, is what
they said, scheduling decisions. But she wrote a book, actually, uh,
miss Quigley, in was called this is the most on
(43:08):
the nose book title of all time. It was called
what does Jones say? Colin my seven years as White
House astrologer to Nancy and Ronald Reagan by me, do
you get it? Um? And she said, quote, I was
responsible for timing all press conferences, most speeches. The State
of the Union addresses the takeoffs and landings of Air
(43:30):
Force one. I picked the time of Ronald Reagan's debate
with Jimmy Carter and the two debates with Mondale, all
extended trips abroad as well as shorter trips and one
day excursions. End quote yeah, um, so yes. The leader
of the Free World arguably the most powerful American president
in recent memory, had his schedule determined by an astrologer.
(43:54):
So weird, I got a couple more things, all right,
what you got? So? Um, Apparently Americans around the time
of Reagan had hit like, basically a low in believing
in astrology. They were They did a poll after that
that news came out, and they found that American belief
overall in astrology um was a twelve percent, which is
(44:17):
down from this is an eight eight, which is down
from ten years before, which makes total sense, like coming
off of the the hippie age and the goofy seven
sign into the very like kind of cynical late eighties. Uh,
it aligns perfectly right the star. So somebody forgot to
send Nancy and Ron that memo. So in two thousand
(44:40):
and four, another poll found that it had gone back
up to no idea why. And then another poll I
saw that asked something different rather than do you believe
in astrology, asked, um, would you say that astrology is
quote not at all scientific? In two thousand four, sixty
six percent of Americans said at two was not scientific.
(45:03):
So basically they don't believe in astrology. And then in
two um percent said that, so apparently belief in astrology
is still on the increase. Interesting, even more interesting, in
China of the public says they don't believe in astrology
compared to about here. And then lastly, I have one
(45:24):
more story ready, and there's actually a blog post you
can go recalled the Genius Mural at St. John's. Okay, yeah,
it's from years back, but I just came across the
story is amazing. There's this place called St. John's Anglican Church.
It's in Lunenburg, Nova Scotia and um. It was built
(45:44):
in seventeen fifty four and it was built with a
mural on the ceiling of the night sky with gilded stars.
And they were remodeling the church and they wanted to
redo the mural right recreated exactly as it had been.
But they realized they didn't have any dead on photographs
of it, so they had to kind of like figure
out what to do. So they hired an astronomer and
(46:07):
he started poking around into it and he realized that
the mural, which had been constructed in seventeen fifty four,
was the exact scene of the night sky over Lunenburg
on December one which is in the Christian tradition is
(46:28):
the night Christ was born. Somebody in seventeen fifty four
accurately calculated what the sky had looked like fifty four
years before on December and turned it into a mural.
Isn't that amazing? I love that story. That's astrology and
what's the name of that story, The Genius Genius Mural
(46:50):
at St. John's. Thanks man, Are you got anything else? Nope?
I could talk about this all day. Are you sure
I think we did right by it. If you want
to know more about astrology, go read Joan Quigley's book.
And since I said Joan quickly, it's time for listener, ma'il.
(47:11):
I'm gonna call this Star Wars Action figure and neared, Hey, guys,
love the show like to I can say, like all
the other fans, is definitely my favorite thing to listen to.
My transplant to Texas from Tennessee, and I always get
excited when I can make that long drive back home
and binge on your interesting material just listen to Action
figures and was thrilled to hear you talk about Star
(47:33):
Wars action figures. I'm one of those Star Wars guys.
You mentioned that read away too much of the fan
fiction and new way too many characters, uh, too many
of the character names. I wanted to share a fact
I thought was interesting about the Kinner toys and two
of the Bounty Hunter characters seen in an Empire Strikes Back.
Kinner went originally packaging the characters mislabeled for Loam probably
(47:59):
not even pronouncing that right. Uh for the number four
dash l O M originally the droid and zook Us
z u c k Uss originally the bug looking guy,
and switch their names. How somebody got fired for that?
Do you believe it? The name stuck into and you
(48:20):
can see on newer packaging of the Hasbro toys that
their names have been switched back. I always thought it
was interesting and interesting. Mishap. Thanks for all you guys do,
and I've learned so much and it's love referencing your
show every chance I get. Sincerely, Harrison for Adam West
No ps, sadly I'm not him. Wow, I agreat would
(48:42):
that be man? That that nice email Adam that was
full of drama, suspense facts and I could do my
nerd voice man, which I completely stole from him. I
just want to make that clear, claiming it at your
own right to homage to Conan yep. Uh well, Adam,
thank you. That was a great one. If you want
(49:03):
to get in touch with us, like Adam did, you
can join us on Facebook, dot com, slash Stuff you
Should Know. You can hang out with Chuck too at
Charles W. Chuck Bryant at Facebook. You can hang out
with me on Twitter, Josh Underscore, UM Underscore, Clark uh
and you can also hang up with us at s
y SK podcast. Send us an email to uh stuff Podcast,
(49:24):
how stuff Works dot com and has always joined us
at Home on the web, Stuff you Should Know dot
com For more on this and thousands of other topics,
is it how Stuff Works dot com
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