October 12, 2017 • 46 mins
Up until recently we had no idea buildering was a word. Or that people scaling buildings has been a thing since the turn of the 20th Century. Learn along with us, and don't try it at home.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Attention celebrity listeners. I hope they got your attention. Hey everyone,
this is Chuck And as some of you have heard,
I have announced that I have a new solo podcast
coming out in November called Movie Crush. UH. The show
where I interview your favorite people about their favorite movie.
And that's along and short of it's really cool. I've
(00:20):
had a bunch of guests in the studio uh and
just had a nice chat about movie fandom in general
and what their favorite movie is and why. And I
need more guests. So if you are a stealthy celebrity listener,
if you're an actor, or a writer or a producer,
uh director, if you're a musician, if you are a
(00:43):
book author. I've had all kinds of people in the studio,
and that's kind of the point, is to hear from
from neat folks of all walks of life. If you
were out there and you want to be on Movie Crush,
I would love, love love to have you. Um, if
you're in Atlanta or going through Atlanta with a movie project,
that's great. If not, we had partner studios in l
A and New York, UH, and we can work it out.
(01:05):
If you live in uh a fly over state even
let's say so, hit me up. Just send me an
email to movie Crush at how stuff Works dot com
and put in the subject line movie Crush guest and
I'll know it's you and I appreciate it. It's a
lot of fun, trust me and um here's two recording
(01:27):
podcast together. Thanks. Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from
how Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.
I'm Josh Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant and Jerry
Roland and this is Stuff you Should Know trying on
(01:52):
some new stuff. The two least extreme guys covering yet
another extreme sports topic. I'm extreme in my easy goingness,
extremely easy going, extremely laid back. Yeah, I always feel
weird when we do uh, what do we do? Base
jumping and parkoury and uh, I just feel wholly unqualified.
(02:17):
It's a great way to start out a shop, right
share It is like, don't listen to a word we say.
But now, these things always have like the coolest backstories,
and there's always like a handful of people who like
just take it to the next level, and there's always
like underground like up stars. It's it's like all of
those things, So I find these pretty pretty interesting. I
wouldn't want to just focus on these entirely. Yeah, you know,
(02:41):
I think we'd both be dissatisfied with our work, but
ex cast with Josh and Chuck. Yeah, oh actually yeah,
I see. No, I'm disregarding it stuff, but I like
them still. Yeah. I think the history for sure of
this is super interesting. Yeah, and if you're if you
aren't familiar, we didn't misspell the title of this episode.
(03:01):
Buildering is actually a combination of buildings, like you walk into,
maybe eat luncheon, possibly do some work, um, you know,
go on to Facebook in sure, Yeah, you can do
those in some buildings, um, get chased out of the
basement via ghost. There's a lot of things that can
happen with a building, so everybody knows what a building is.
(03:23):
Then there's also something called bouldering, which is um climbing
huge enormous rocks. Basically, it's like um, like rock climbing,
but but it's like a rather than a mountain or
a cliff face or something like that, it's an actual boulder,
like a huge giant boulder, And um, I think it's
it's harder than than rock climber. It can be depending
on the boulder, I'm sure. Um. But if you put
(03:44):
those two things together, you get this new term, this
relatively new term called buildering, and it is basically climbing
those buildings that we mentioned before. Yeah. I didn't know
this was a term either. Honestly, I didn't need because
when I saw it, I went, huh did you? And
then it sucks you into the article and you said,
(04:05):
I've got to learn more about this. Well yeah, and
then when I clicked on and I said, oh, these
are just those those wackos who uh climb you know,
tall towers illegally, mostly illegally. You got all that right.
It's illegal almost across the board. The buildings they usually
climb are tall, especially the ones they get pressed. And
(04:26):
every single person who does this is a wacko. Yeah,
and we'll go over this, but they a lot of
times we'll get arrested and stuff. Um. The same as
uh as as the tight rope walker that that wacky
French guy what was his name? Ha ha ha ha, Yeah,
the guy who walks between the World Trade Center towers
(04:48):
and Man on Wire. I think we've gone over this
Man on Wire, great documentary very bad movie, was it?
I just don't know what they did to uh to
Ron John's eyes? Ron John what's his name? Not Ron John,
Don John Don John Don John. Yeah. Remember he made
(05:10):
a movie about a guy who was addicted to internet
porn but started dating Scarlett Johnson. What yeah? Wait wait yes,
Don John Don Juan. Wasn't it? No? I think it
was John. Okay, you're thinking of Don Juan DeMarco, which
was a great movie. But you're talking about j g L.
That's I didn't know. You're talking about a character that's
(05:30):
like the guy's not called any of those things, you know,
but he like he wrote that movie that was like
his movie, His baby, that was pretty good. They said,
what do you want to do? You can do anything
you want, and he's like, well, I have this one idea.
I want to make out with Scarlett Joe answer all right.
I liked him in Third Rock from the Sun. I
never saw that. It was a surprisingly good sitcom actually,
(05:53):
and it was pretty well written and well acted, stellar cast. Well, yeah,
anything with what's his face? Syndum super into. Yeah, everybody
loves what's his face? I know who you're talking about.
What's his face? I'm blanking everything. You know, we should
tell people were recording in the morning. That's why. Oh
my brain is so foggy. I hadn't really thought about that.
(06:14):
But yeah, it's gonna make a substantial difference. It's gonna
really drag this one down. I think we haven't done
that in a long time. No, for good reason. It's
John Lithgow that you're thinking. That's right. But I'm also drunk,
so hopefully it'll from the night before, from last night
I thought you stunk. Um, I think so yet. No,
I didn't actually drink a thing last night. For the record,
(06:40):
I did not either. Oh good, we're both teetotally last night.
So um, yes, bad movie. The only good thing about
the Man on Wire movie was, um, some of the
shots of the actual walk itself. Most of that looked
really astounding. But um man, it was so bad. Well,
(07:01):
you know, I think that there's an overreliance on special
effects these days to really move a movie along, rather
than good old fashioned plot and and writing and dialogue.
They're just like, oh no, no, we're gonna have these
great shots. Are these great effects? Or this thing's gonna
blow up. I mean that's long been a problem. I
mean it's like what action movies are made of, right,
(07:23):
but it seems to have crept its way into movies
all over the spectrum. Yeah, and it sounds like what
you're talking about, and this is well and he did this,
he did this. Uh, he broke the third wall and
did a lot of talking to the audience in this
ridiculous from accent, and um did he really? Yeah? Man,
it was. It was all just weird, a lot of
weird choices. And I think it's also a case of
(07:46):
a documentary that's so good just stop there. Yeah, you
don't need to see it played out fictionally, you know.
I mean that's like one of the pinnacles of documentary filmmaker.
Al Right, well we killed some time. Yeah, that was great.
Check we can So we're talking about the the guy
you're talking about. I can't believe neither one of us
can remember the actual man's name. Um. He he walked
(08:10):
on a tight rope between the World Trade Center towers.
That's not buildering. Um, there are people. There's a guy
named Shipwreck Kelly who used to um go up on
like the top of like a construction site and like
stack chairs and sit on top of them. That's an
absolutely insane not building. Buildering is strictly climbing up scaling
(08:32):
a building on the outside to preferably get to the top, right,
And there's all different ways you can do it, like
you can do it um free climbing, which is absolutely
totally and completely insane. And also I want to go
on record here about this as well. Do not do this.
(08:54):
Do not. I don't care if you're one of the
people were talking about. I'm I'm begging with you to
stop doing what you're doing. It's one of the most
dangerous things in person can do. You're climbing a building,
and a lot of buildings are not made to be climbed.
Some of them are like, well, yeah, I mean that's
an obvious building to climb. Others are like how are
you doing this, especially if you're free climbing. But there's
(09:15):
a lot of other implements people people can use that
will go over as well. But that that is building.
It's not like Philippe Petite who walked on a wire
right right, that's sorry, I had to look up that name.
I'm glad you did to stop people from screaming in
their car. Yeah. Should we talk about the history, Yeah,
let's because this was to me the most interesting thing
(09:36):
about all of this is when I think of buildering
or climbing buildings, I think, well, this has been going
on for probably thirty forty years max, maybe about the
time that Mountain Dew really turned extreme. That's right, Uh,
not true at all. And I was genuinely shocked to
know that people have been climbing buildings and in an
(10:00):
extreme sports way. They just didn't call it that. Then,
since there have been tall buildings right like in nineteen
hundred is when this started, which is about the time
people started building like genuinely tall buildings. Yeah, it's crazy.
There's a guy called the father of modern urban climbing, uh,
Jeoffrey Winthrop Young, And he wrote a book, small book
(10:25):
called a guide book, if you will, called The Roof
Climbers Guide to Trinity about Trinity College buildings in Cambridge, England.
And basically it was like, here's how you do it, mates,
here's what you should climb on campus, and here's the
best way to go about it. Yeah, and like there
were even little diagrams that was like that would show
(10:47):
you which way to climb. He would reference like this
one window sill or there's a ledge next to this
one drain pipe or the actual drain pipe work. Like
he really kind of spelled out how you could make
your way up to each olding and it was kind
of like this cool underground thing to do on Trinity
College's campus. That's right, And I can't still it's hard
(11:09):
to believe to me that this is going on a
uh yeah yeah, I mean college didn't have always been
college students, So don't you think that's true? You know? So? Um,
Jeoffrey Winthrop Young his name really is kind of fun
to say, isn't it. Um, he published this is kind
of like a little underground smash. From what I understand,
(11:30):
the the deans of the college were not happy about
this to suppress it, right. Um. But then almost forty
years later, another pamphlet or mini book came out and
it was written student pseudonymously by someone named Whipple Snaith
turned out to be Noel Symington. Another great game, and
(11:54):
he he published something called The Night Climbers of Cambridge,
another university in Cambridge, and um basically did the same thing.
It was you could even call it a follow up,
and he actually I think coined that term night climbing,
which is still used around that town today to denote
climbing up buildings at night. And the whole reason you
do it at night it is because you don't want
(12:16):
to get caught. Yeah, it's crazy that Cambridge was the
was the birth of modern you know, extreme climbing. Yeah. Uh.
And here in the United States, however, when it really
started happening was when we started building skyscrapers, that is
to say, the the first like years of the twentieth century. Uh,
and there were it's weird there. It seems like there's
(12:38):
been a lot of Spiderman and human flies and think
they maybe he should just be a little more original
rather than just say I'm the new Spider Man, right. Uh.
And for God's sake, that they should stop wearing Spider
Man outfits when they do this, because that just looks
kind of silly. And while we're on it, they should
stop making Spider Man movies over and over again. Oh
(12:58):
the new one is so good though, is it? I
haven't seen it. Yeah, And I'm totally against the whole
thing where it's like and there's a new guy, but
this new one really like kind of captured the comic
book thing. Okay, I'll give it a shot. Yeah, I was.
I was pretty taken with it. Okay. So, yeah, we
started building skyscrapers here in the US and almost out
(13:20):
of the gate, people are like, I want to climb that,
and some people didn't, like you were saying. There was
one guy who's the Human Fly, the original human Fly,
I think, and supposedly he got that nickname from Grover Cleveland,
president at the time. But this guy's name was Harry H.
Gardner and he was quite a character. Actually, yeah, did
you look up pictures of this dude. It's crazy. He
(13:42):
looks like, uh, I mean, I don't know what I expected,
maybe that he would just look a little different from
his peers of the day, but he literally looks like
he walked out of an accounting office in New York
City and started climbing buildings. Yeah, that's basically it's basically
what he did. And he got really good at it too. Yeah,
(14:02):
he got the slick back hair and the glasses. And
there's one great picture of him. He would usually wear
this kind of look like a weird white jumpsuit was
his outfit as the Human Fly. But um, there's this
one that one great picture I hope you saw it
where he's hanging off of a building ledge and a
full three piece suit like doffing his cap. I did
(14:24):
see that. Pretty neat, Yeah he had he had a
little bit of pinoche. You could say, yes, yeah, is
there anything Okay, No, there is something more unsettling. But something,
something very unsettling, is old timey athletic wear, you know.
And the other thing I thought of that's even more
unsettling his old timey wheelchairs. The weaker ones. They look
(14:47):
neither comfortable nor safe. No, and they're they're clearly haunted
by their past occupants. Yeah, for sure, the haunted wheelchair.
That's a good short story. I think so too. Man
um so Gardner are one of his first big moves
as he climbed Detroit News is twelve story uh Ad
building in nineteen sixteen. And as you'll see, with most
(15:09):
of these folks, they don't I mean they call it
night climbing. But aside from the early days, they kind
of said, you know what, that's kind of for the birds.
Day climbing is where it's at because we kind of
want people to see us. Yeah, because I mean, at
the time, people didn't have a lot to do. You know,
it's a big thing, like you could sit around and
and read and that's great, but people were looking for
(15:32):
stuff to do during the day too. So yeah, like
you you could see Daredevil's doing crazy stuff in the
cities around this time. And one of them was that
climb of the Detroit News building. Did you say it
was twelve stories? Yeah, twelve stories and you know he
hit it right at noon when people could leave their
offices at lunch leave their martinis on the table. Um.
(15:54):
And the Detroit News actually covered it, and all the
newspapers were always knocked out by these, you know, feats
of daring do uh And they said they dared not cheer.
Men stood and stared with bulging eyes. Women hugged their
babies to their breasts and held their breath. Yeah it's
a lot. It reads easier than it than it speaks
(16:14):
that line. Yes, you're right, but um, so this was
like a huge deal in Detroit, and so Gardner was like, well,
I'll just do it again. It was pretty easy this time.
I lived. Let's let me press my luck another time,
let me cheat death again. So we scheduled another one
just a couple of days later. But um, Apparently the
crowds that turned out were so massive and throwing the
(16:37):
area and just disrupted everything around there that they're like,
we we can't do this, you can't climb, so they
canceled it. Yeah, it's kind of a bummer, but he
would not be deterred. He would go on to climb
many buildings, including the sixteen story Empire Building in Birmingham, Alabama,
which I didn't know Birmingham had. I know, this is
(16:58):
like back in the time when any city had a
shot at being a great American city. You know. Oh
he had to do is get a little investment, maybe
has some cattle or timber or something, and then build
some skyscrapers. That's right in Birmingham is one of the
great American cities, by the way. Uh. And then in Vancouver,
and it seems like a lot of this has happened
(17:18):
over the years. In Vancouver, Um, the coup, the seventeen
story World Building. Uh, there he climbed as well. Yes, yeah,
so he's like traveling North America climbing these buildings is
like a public spectacle. The President calls him the human fly. Um,
he's feeling pretty great and then all of a sudden,
(17:39):
he just drops out of public view and thence he
drops off the side of the building. No, he didn't.
No one knows what happened to him. They don't know
how he died, where he went, or anything like that.
But supposedly the best guess is that he was found
he was murdered in Paris at the Eiffel Tower, because
there was an unidentified body that apparently matched his description
(18:02):
that was found beaten to death at the base of
the Eiffel Tower in I think six or something like that. Yeah,
imagine a lot of people didn't get beaten to death
in Paris either back then. No, they were taking a
break after the rain of tear. They're like, that really
got out of hand. Let's all just be peaceful for
a while. Shall we take a break? Yeah, alright, we'll
(18:24):
go chalk up and uh scale Jerry's desk over there. Hey, Chuck,
(18:58):
So we're back and all of this is m reminded
me of the going over the Niagara Falls in a
Barrel episode. Oh that's right, that was another one. Um.
I feel like we should do an episode on like
Daredevils in general. You know, we did that two part
around Evil Kinevil, we did one of Daredevils? Um did
(19:19):
we on Daredevil's I knew we did Stuntman and Canniball run.
I think we did Daredevils. Huh, I I think I
think this closes the book. Oh, I was gonna say,
I think we need to reduce some of this stuff.
All right, but do you remember the one guy who
went over the falls and um over, yeah, over Niagara
Falls in a barrel and lived and then died I
think slipping on an orange peel like years later in
(19:42):
the Three Students episode. That's like the greatest worst thing
I've ever heard. It's pretty good. So so who else
Gardner leads the way? Apparently he was known for saying, um,
like a hundred something men have tried to do what
I do and died trying, which is a lie. Probably
there's probably some people who did you know, died emulating
(20:04):
him or imitating him. But there were other successful ones too,
successful human Flies, early Spider Man, if you will. Yeah,
going back again to the nineties, this is a little
out of order sequentially, but a dude named Henry Roland
broke his hip felt only about thirty five ft in Iowa,
climbing the Davis County Courthouse and this was kind of
(20:27):
took him out of commission for a while, but he
would not be deterred as well. That's the kind of
the rolling narrative here with these dudes, as you can't
keep him down. Eight years later he returned climbed that
same courthouse and only twelve minutes, which is pretty impressive,
and then put his hat on the head of the
blind Justice statue. I know. That's the thing, like, this
(20:49):
is a time when not wearing a hat was so
scandalous that human flies would wear a hat out of
doors while they were climbing, you know, I just love that.
And then there was a dude that died too, right, Yeah,
I think there are a lot of guys that died,
but this one was I think fairly well known and died. HF.
Young died in nineteen three. He fell off the Hotel
(21:11):
martinique Um which was a nine story drop for him.
Which will do it? That will? That will kill you?
Although I was on Mosaic Science magazine site and they
had um I think it was called how to Survive
a Fall or something like that, and it was basically
about like on your way down what to do? Yeah, um,
(21:33):
but not just like what to do. It wasn't just
an instructional thing it was. It was also like a
look at the study of falling and how we fall,
which is kind of an understudied thing, but there are
some people who are really like taking a hard look
at it, and um, I don't remember the exact gist
of it, but they do kind of tell you exactly
the best way to improve your chances from a huge
(21:55):
fall and you don't know that now, No, I forgot,
so I'm I'm dead meat if I fall. That's probably
the one key takeaway. Well, I think the key takeaway
is everybody should go read this article. It's from Mosaic
Science magazine and it's called I think like how to
Survive a fall. Jeez. Yeah, it's a good one. That's
a good reading. So HF young dies very sad, and
(22:16):
then the couple of more folks died the next year.
And then that's when cities started to say, all right,
we're not calling it buildering yet because we're not in
a time machine, but these crazy dudes need to knock
it off. Yeah, They're like, this is wildly irresponsible for
us to allow this and not only allow it, but
like assemble the citizens at lunchtime to come watch this thing,
(22:41):
you know for sure, So they did, they started an
outlaw and it kind of fell to the wayside. And
um some of these early guys, like you said, building
is not a term yet, so there called urban climbers,
at least they are now. But there's a there's actually
a pretty big distinction between urban climbing and builder, although
they can very frequently overlap, and some people do both.
(23:04):
Um But urban climbing is like that would include climbing
up a ladder on a construction crane, on the top
of a skyscraper, as some people do. Oh yeah, I
can't see those videos. I know. It's it's just too
much um or it could be like climbing up a
bridge or something. But it's you're you're using like other
things besides just the face of the building, which is
(23:29):
that's kind of like one of the requisites of building
is you're not using any of the ladders or anything
that's intended to be climbed. You're you're using the building
at the facade of the building itself, although sometimes that
can um imitate a ladder, as we'll see here in
a minute. But you're right, nothing extra right. Uh, So
(23:50):
we jump from you know, I guess the nineteen thirties
or so. Like you said, it tailed off for a
long time for good reason, and then finally in the
nineteen seventies and eighties started to pick back up again. Uh,
namely in the late nineteen seventies with a man named
George Willig. Uh he was a toy maker, so he
had a sense of whimsy I imagine um for the
Ideal Toy Company. And he took a p t O
(24:13):
d literally and said, uh, well, he didn't tell anyone,
but he took a p t O day a little
personal time to go climb the World Trade Center. Yep,
I'd love this guy a lot. Actually yeah, he did
in three and a half hours. And he actually had
a rig. He was not a free climber because that
would just be insane um and probably not possible with
(24:35):
the World Trade Center which was mostly glass. But he
figured out a way, uh to to fit a device
over the window washers scaffold and then it fit. And
if you see pictures of this guy doing so, you
know between the World Trade Center it had these grooves
between the windows, and he probably rigged something of his
own making. Yeah, he made it himself. Yeah, that would
(24:58):
fit between the channel between those windows. Uh. And apparently
after he figured that out, it wasn't too tough. Well
it was. It was like, um, I think it was
still tough. But this implement that he designed was you know,
pretty ingenious. Well that he climbed with relative ease, right right, yeah, yeah,
(25:18):
better than free climbing or something like that. For sure.
He was using implements. But the thing when he when
he pressed down on it, it's it would slide into
these slats that the window washing machine was supposed to
go up and down on, like you were saying, um,
And when he pressed down on it, it would lock
into the sides, and when he like lifted up on it,
it would unlock, so he could just kind of like
(25:39):
shimmy up like that. Right. And he had the foresight
to bring a little hammer with him because he was like,
you know what, I'll bet that thing is not perfect
all the way up. And he brought a little hammer
with him and needed it many times to like hammer
it out to about the shape that he needed it
to be. But he, um, he made this climb and
(26:04):
a couple of cops. One of them was a specialist
in suicides. Uh, we're lowered down on an actual window
washing conveyance and said, you know, they were given the
task of talking this guy down, and apparently at some
point they were like, oh, you you mean to do this?
You're you're just climbing the World Trade Center, that's all
(26:27):
you're doing. Huh. And then I would have just walked
up and jumped off, dummy, right exactly, like this seems
a little hard for that. But they they left him
alone until he got to the top, and then of
course they arrested him right when he when he got
to the top. But um, he made it to the
top for sure. Yeah. And originally apparently the city was
going to find him a big old fat and this
(26:48):
is the ninety seven a quarter million bucks, which it's
a lot of money today, but certainly a lot of
money backs in. But Mayor Beam, I guess, was charmed
and taken with the uh the attention it brought maybe
the New York City and said I'm gonna find you
a penny per floor. So he paid a find of
a dollar in ten cents, right, And I think there
(27:10):
was probably a lot of public pressure to leave this
guy alone because he became a celebrity overnight when he
did this. I mean he was he was big time
all of a sudden, and he's just this you know,
thoughtful toymaking guy who who just decided he wanted to
do this and made his own implements, you know, and
all of a sudden, now he's on like Johnny Carson
(27:30):
and Merv Griffin and all the late night talk shows. Um.
He got work as a stunt man on a bunch
of shows, including The six Million Dollar Man, like just
that one clime like made him famous still to this day.
I think he's he's one of the u for sure,
one of the dudes that people look back on as
like very revered in this sport. Yeah, I agree. You
(27:52):
don't hear people doing stuff like this anymore, do you am?
I just not hearing about it. Yeah, you're not hearing
about it. Um, well, because we'll get to him. That
uh Ellen Robert guy. He's still climbing as a little
buns off. There's a little tight climbing buns stupid sexy
Flanders classic one that there's a dude and he still
(28:20):
climbs as well. I believe California man named Dan Goodwin,
and he was silly enough to put on a Spider
Man costume, which I guess it feels cool at the time,
but it just never looks good, especially after you've seen
the movies and like the really cool outfits that they
put the Spider Man in. So the Walmart version right
(28:42):
when you're just like a kid at Halloween, were clearly
see what kind of like sneakers you're wearing not so
cool underneath the red spats. They're supposed to cover them,
but don't. Yeah, like if he had the real Hollywood suit,
it would might look kind of, you know, awesome, but
no such luck for Dan Goodwin. Plus, also, if you're
gonna go to this kind of trouble and do something
this publicly, like to take an extra month and design
(29:05):
and manufacture your own costume. Agreed, get a little cape
in there something sure, although that might get in the way. Well,
it had to be a very lightweight, thin, small cape.
I would half size. Maybe I would be a nude builderer.
Could you imagine? Now I can? I'll sit with you
(29:28):
for a while. Um. So, Dan Goodwin dressed up his
spidy and he climbed the sears Tower in Chicago, which
is now the Willis Tower at the time the Year's Tower,
it's still the Sears Tower. Yeah, I agree. Uh, And
then would go on to climb the John Hancock Tower,
also in Chicago, and then he said, that's beans, I'm
(29:49):
gonna go climb the Sea In Tower in Toronto because
I think it's over eight feet tall, and at the
time it was the world's tallest structure, which made him
the top dog for a bit. And he climbed that
CN Tower twice in the same day. Yeah. Why because
it was there. I guess, I don't know. Maybe somebody
(30:10):
was like, that wasn't the big of a deal and
he's like, oh yeah, I'll do it again. I'll see
in a couple of hours. Jerk. Uh. And then Goodwin
was then followed um by the man we were just
talking about, a Frenchman or a Frenchman name Alan Robert
or is it Elaine? I never know how to pronounce
that when the eye is stuck in there, Uh, I
don't know, Ellen, Okay, Yeah, that sounds nice. Yeah. This
(30:35):
is in the mid nineties and he he is a
bit of a stand alone, not a stand alone, but
a stand apart at least because while he occasionally will
use some equipment, what he really likes to do is
get out there, get some chalk on his hands, and
tackle a building. Yeah. This guy is, I mean, in
my opinion, the greatest builder who's ever lived, at the
(30:58):
very least the riskiest, or at the very least the
most well known. Too. I've ran across another guy named
Um Mustang Wanted. I don't think that's his actual name.
That's what he goes by, Mustang Wanted. He named his
himself after an ad on Craigslist, right exactly. And he
does from what I can tell free free climbing, buildering. Um.
(31:23):
And he's younger and just kind of not well known.
I'm sure he's quite well known in the buildering circles
or the serving climbing circles. But um, yeah, Elaine Robert, Robert, right,
Alan Robert. What am I doing? He? Um like he's sponsored.
He's that well known by you want to tell him by? Who?
(31:44):
I think you should tell him? Well, what's the name
of the company. I know it's a hair replacement company.
It's like a Nuvigil nor Jill, nor Jill or nor Gill,
one of them. We're having a lot of trouble with
the words that circle in this guy's universe. Yeah, that's
because this morning. But he uh yeah, God bless him.
He has some some hair loss going on. So he
(32:06):
got the sponsorship that made sense for his life. It's
good for him, right, good for that guy. And he
also wore Spider Man outfit, so just stop, dudes, get
the Spider Man. He doesn't always he would from time
to time. I think it might be like a tradition
now maybe an inside joke I don't know, or maybe
(32:26):
they really are, like this is gonna make it feel
so much cooler when I build her this building. Should
we take another break? I think? So? All right, we're
gonna go getting our Spiderman costumes and finish the show
that way. So, UM, we talked about how like these
(33:08):
guys can get kind of famous actually, and some of
them use their platforms for for good, like l A.
Robert Um, he'll go both ways, right, Like he's taken
um tens of thousands of dollars to climb a building
to promote like a Spider Man movie or something like that.
Really that's why he was dressed as Spider Man. Did
he really do that? Um? And then. But on the
(33:32):
other hand, he's well known to like unfurraled banners at
the top that promote like, um, like uh, the climate
change stuff like that, right, Yeah, Like there was a
one website called a hundred months dot org that he
was promoting. I think back in the late nineties that
um basically positive that we had like a hundred months
(33:54):
before the earth was irreversibly changed by climate change. And
I don't think that that has has panned out as successful,
that website and changing the world's mind yet. Um. Other
people have done the same though, uh, either promotional stuff
or banners, sometimes like you said, for good Uh, sometimes
(34:15):
for dough because the builder has got to eat after all. Sure,
you gotta be able to get to the places. If
you're traveling the world, you need airplane money. Yeah, and
sometimes like you said with the was it Willig that
went on to um do some stuntman work. Yeah he did. Yeah,
that's a good way to get work. Um. Sebastia was
(34:40):
the guy in Casino Royal. I just want to apologize
to the entire country of France for this episode. You
don't listen now, You're right, that's fine, We're good then, uh.
He was the one in Casino Royal who doubled up
um James Bond and did all the I think he
did all the parkour and the building and that's that
(35:00):
stunt scene. Yeah he did. It was pretty neat. Yeah,
that was a thrilling scene for sure. Yeah. And we
have to talk about the scene in uh Mission Impossible
Ghost Protocol thrilling as well. Apparently it was for real.
It was, dude, and it really was Tom Cruise doing
that stunt. It was I watched the full scene again today.
(35:23):
I watched the behind the scenes of the making of
that scene. Uh. This is when he uh went out
of the window of the Birch Birch Khalifa in Dubai,
which is the world's tallest tower at seventeen feet and
h that I think what you want about Tom Cruise.
(35:45):
I'm still sort of in and out with that guy.
But that scene is one of the most thrilling scenes
in action movie history to me. And the idea that
it was real, yeah, I mean, and of course he
was fully cabled and tethered, uh, and it was as
(36:06):
as safe as you can imagine something being And then
they go in and erase all that stuff in post production.
But it's still he's still up there doing this stuff,
running down the side of the building, launching himself off
the side and swinging around, and uh, it's just it's amazing,
really really great action movie scene. It is a lot
(36:30):
of those movies were pretty good that um Mission Impossible
ones turned out. Okay, yeah, I think all of them
were good except for the Uh, I guess it was
too the John Woowin. That's what everybody says. What was
wrong with that? I don't even know if I saw
it or not. I don't know. I think he it
just I don't know. It just wasn't that good. I
can't remember if it was, like, because you know, besides
(36:51):
good action and stuff, he still have to have a
good story for Mission Impossible and good um impossible mission stuff, right,
and they didn't have that. I think I remember it
just not having a very good plot in and good
Mission impossible type stuff. It didn't feel Mission Impossible like
to me. But they once brad Bird got back onto
(37:12):
the director like those those were good in my opinion. Yeah,
but that's what I'm saying, Like, you need to have plot,
you need to have a story, you have a good dialogue,
so if you're gonna do this, you should be prepared
to be arrested, right, But don't do it. No, No,
that's great, great point, Chuck. Don't do this because if
(37:33):
you were going to you'd be arrested. Like apparently Elaine
Robert has been arrested like a hundred times or something
like that. Um, and he's become so infamous. He never
announces publicly what he's going to do. He just shows
up at the building apparently in the morning and just
starts climbing, you know, and people take note. Right. Um.
(37:53):
He also apparently is so famous that he was seen
hanging around inside maybe on a tour or something of
the Shard in London, and the building's owners got freaked
out and they went to court and got a restraining
order against him to keep them away from their building forever.
They're like, I know why you're here. You're you're not
a scout, you're casing the place. Yeah, I mean, it's
(38:15):
obviously a liability for property owners. Um, although some have
paid people and invited them to do so to give
them press. So it's a it's a weird sort of
mix of illegality and like, hey, come do this thing. Yeah,
and I mean for the most part though, if the
building owner doesn't want you there, it's it's because they're
they're covering their bottoms, you know, like they if you
(38:37):
fall off, and even worse, if you fall off and
you fall on to some other people. Yeah, that's that's
a big problem for them. I never thought about that. Yeah,
it's I mean, it's not just you whose life is
in jeopardy in that respect, but you're also like draining
like public resources because the cops have to keep everybody
back a safe distance. It's a selfish sport for it
(38:59):
really is a selfish dangel sport. But um, like there's
there's a lot of stuff you can get in trouble,
for the least of which is probably criminal trespassing, right, Yeah,
and the cops don't really know what to do with you.
And apparently in Chicago, um they tried to blast uh
spider Dan what was his last name, Dan Goodwin, Dan
(39:19):
Goodwin off of the building with fire hose. That's what
he says. I saw elsewhere that they tried to get
him off the building using various means. He's the one
who said that it was with a fire hose. We're
talking about the Chicago Police, so it's entirely possible. Yeah.
He also claimed that Fire Commissioner William Blair threatened to
kill him if he did this again. And both of
(39:39):
these are claims from Dan Goodwin um who by the way,
there was an article in Wired magazine about him and
uh Elaine Robert and it was to both them their
inspirations in life, and Elaine Roberts were Zoro and Robin Hood.
So's he's clearly grounded in reality. Uh. And then good
ones are Bruce Lee makes sense, Carlos Castanada, mm hmm,
(40:05):
Steve Jobs, are you ready for the last one? John Lennon,
famous extreme sportsman. Yeah, John Lennon, you can parkour like
a gorilla. Yeah, I remember that a song. All we're
saying is get building a chance, which was wildly irresponsible
(40:26):
to or imagine there's no building. It's easy if you
try so do this all day. One of the one
of the things, well, this is good because it's actually
getting the image of you naked building out of my head.
So maybe keep it up now. Naked John Lennon is
building in your head. Um. So, man, that really threw
(40:47):
me off because you can picture him naked because I
forgot where I was going. Yeah, I can picture like
his his flank and rump. Yep, you know how can
you just picture instead of Yoko oh no, him clinging
to the side of the building. And now I know
Aaron Cooper will be sending something. Yeah, for sure, I
know what I was gonna say, Dan, Dan Goodwin, Um
(41:10):
he was actually he said he was inspired by the
Las Vegas MGM Grand fire in the early eighties. I
think maybe, um, which, I think we should do an
episode on hotel fires too. It sounds weird and gruesome
and it is, but there's actually like a lot of
crazy history involved in there. And yeah, there was one
(41:31):
in Atlanta in the early days. Yeah, the I can't
remember what it was back then, but there's Yeah, they
revamped that hotel. You can go to it now. Um
it's right down there by where the Hawks play Phillips. Yes, so,
but I can't remember the name of it off the
top of my head. But yeah, we should do a
hotel fires one. Okay, very dark idea. So apparently, um
(41:55):
Goodwin saw that hotel fire and saw people were trapped
in that the fire department had no way to get
to them, and he was already a climber. I just
don't think he was a builder. And he apparently went
up to the fire chief for the person in charge
of fighting his fires, like, let me climb up there
and put some cables in place, and you guys can
go get these people out. And the guy was like,
(42:16):
I'm going to have you arrested if you don't leave
right now. Yeah. I mean, his heart was in the
right place, but fire chiefs kind of want to just
do their thing and not have citizens offered to put
themselves in danger on top of that, especially if they're
just as Spider Man in an ill fitting child's costume
at the time. Chief, Yeah, I got a great idea.
(42:39):
But supposedly he went and started climbing the outside of
buildings to kind of proved that this could be done
and that it should be done, and um, that people
could be saved, that you could use this kind of
thing as a way to assist um fire departments during fires,
which so far I don't think anyone's ever taken them
up on it. They don't have builders on the on
the payroll, no. Um. So one final thing I want
(43:03):
to mention is that, uh, there's this one building new
York Times building in two thousand eight that Elain Robert climbed,
and the cop that was interviewed by the New York
Times was silly enough to say, well, look at this thing.
You don't have to be a professional, like the building
looks like a ladder, and someone read that, and then
apparently later on that same day, someone who didn't wasn't
(43:25):
even an experienced builder from Brooklyn went out and climbed
the thing successfully. Yeah. Pretty interesting. Yeah, and there have
been unsuccessful climbs. There's one guy who was climbing a
building in Houston and felt like thirty stories in two
thousand three. Um, and he was reported by an eyewitnesses
is purposefully jumping. Um, but I don't know. Apparently the
(43:48):
buildering community doesn't necessarily buy that. He said no, thank you, Yeah,
Ryan John Hartley was his name. That's very sad. It
is sad, and it also goes to show just how
dangerous this this is dangerous. Don't do it, even if
you've got the best tom Cruise suction cups you you
can get your hands on, and you've got uh nice
some ropes and some friends who are really trustworthy, just
(44:10):
don't do it, Okay, I agreed. Uh, well, since I
said just don't do it, that's your queue to go
look this article up on how Stuff Works dot com.
And since I said that it's time for listener mail,
I'm gonna call this. I forgot to get a listener mail,
so I'm gonna read the first one on the latest email.
(44:30):
It's like Russian Roulette with listener mail. Um, yeah, this
one's okay, not bad. Subject lines sleepy while reading. Uh.
Dear Josh and Chuck, thanks for all the hard work
and humor you put into stuff. You should know. Podcasts
have been a constant companion to me for the last
seven years. Taught me about agent orange while painting landscapes,
Jim Hinson while working out at the gym, and bioluminescence
(44:54):
while riding the bus in China. Wow, he's got an
exciting life. Um, there's one thing I really do need
to know, though, Why do I always doze off while
I'm reading? I'd like to learn enjoy reading, but over
the past few years I struggled to stay conscious. Whyn't
when I read? I was hoping you could shed some
light on this, as you're both avid readers. That is
Harrison Gibbs, and he has a PS. I've been enjoying
(45:16):
Internet round Up and don't be dumb on Amazon Prime.
My sympathies to Chuck is, I know the struggle of
Beard Dan drip is real and we referenced it. T
sell shampoo and Beard Oil has helped me. That's Harrison Gibbs. Uh.
I don't know the answer, but that is a for
sure thing. Like if you want to fall asleep at night,
(45:38):
put your phone down or your e reader and read
a good old fashioned book. It's like a paper valume. Yeah,
it might just do it, yep, but they're science behind it. Sure,
well look at it. We don't forget to Yeah, if
we don't fall asleep while we're looking it up. Thanks Harrison,
appreciate that. If you want to get in touch with
this like he did, you can tweet to us at
Josh I'm Clark or s Y s K Podcast. You
(45:59):
can hit up Facebook at Charles W. Chuck Bryant or
Stuff if you should Know right. You can send us
an email to Stuff Podcast at how Stuff Works dot com.
There's always joined us at our home on the web.
Stuff you Should Know dot com for more on this
and thousands of other topics is that how stuff works
(46:20):
dot com
Attention celebrity listeners. I hope they got your attention. Hey everyone,
this is Chuck And as some of you have heard,
I have announced that I have a new solo podcast
coming out in November called Movie Crush. UH. The show
where I interview your favorite people about their favorite movie.
And that's along and short of it's really cool. I've
(00:20):
had a bunch of guests in the studio uh and
just had a nice chat about movie fandom in general
and what their favorite movie is and why. And I
need more guests. So if you are a stealthy celebrity listener,
if you're an actor, or a writer or a producer,
uh director, if you're a musician, if you are a
(00:43):
book author. I've had all kinds of people in the studio,
and that's kind of the point, is to hear from
from neat folks of all walks of life. If you
were out there and you want to be on Movie Crush,
I would love, love love to have you. Um, if
you're in Atlanta or going through Atlanta with a movie project,
that's great. If not, we had partner studios in l
A and New York, UH, and we can work it out.
(01:05):
If you live in uh a fly over state even
let's say so, hit me up. Just send me an
email to movie Crush at how stuff Works dot com
and put in the subject line movie Crush guest and
I'll know it's you and I appreciate it. It's a
lot of fun, trust me and um here's two recording
(01:27):
podcast together. Thanks. Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from
how Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.
I'm Josh Clark with Charles W. Chuck Bryant and Jerry
Roland and this is Stuff you Should Know trying on
(01:52):
some new stuff. The two least extreme guys covering yet
another extreme sports topic. I'm extreme in my easy goingness,
extremely easy going, extremely laid back. Yeah, I always feel
weird when we do uh, what do we do? Base
jumping and parkoury and uh, I just feel wholly unqualified.
(02:17):
It's a great way to start out a shop, right
share It is like, don't listen to a word we say.
But now, these things always have like the coolest backstories,
and there's always like a handful of people who like
just take it to the next level, and there's always
like underground like up stars. It's it's like all of
those things, So I find these pretty pretty interesting. I
wouldn't want to just focus on these entirely. Yeah, you know,
(02:41):
I think we'd both be dissatisfied with our work, but
ex cast with Josh and Chuck. Yeah, oh actually yeah,
I see. No, I'm disregarding it stuff, but I like
them still. Yeah. I think the history for sure of
this is super interesting. Yeah, and if you're if you
aren't familiar, we didn't misspell the title of this episode.
(03:01):
Buildering is actually a combination of buildings, like you walk into,
maybe eat luncheon, possibly do some work, um, you know,
go on to Facebook in sure, Yeah, you can do
those in some buildings, um, get chased out of the
basement via ghost. There's a lot of things that can
happen with a building, so everybody knows what a building is.
(03:23):
Then there's also something called bouldering, which is um climbing
huge enormous rocks. Basically, it's like um, like rock climbing,
but but it's like a rather than a mountain or
a cliff face or something like that, it's an actual boulder,
like a huge giant boulder, And um, I think it's
it's harder than than rock climber. It can be depending
on the boulder, I'm sure. Um. But if you put
(03:44):
those two things together, you get this new term, this
relatively new term called buildering, and it is basically climbing
those buildings that we mentioned before. Yeah. I didn't know
this was a term either. Honestly, I didn't need because
when I saw it, I went, huh did you? And
then it sucks you into the article and you said,
(04:05):
I've got to learn more about this. Well yeah, and
then when I clicked on and I said, oh, these
are just those those wackos who uh climb you know,
tall towers illegally, mostly illegally. You got all that right.
It's illegal almost across the board. The buildings they usually
climb are tall, especially the ones they get pressed. And
(04:26):
every single person who does this is a wacko. Yeah,
and we'll go over this, but they a lot of
times we'll get arrested and stuff. Um. The same as
uh as as the tight rope walker that that wacky
French guy what was his name? Ha ha ha ha, Yeah,
the guy who walks between the World Trade Center towers
(04:48):
and Man on Wire. I think we've gone over this
Man on Wire, great documentary very bad movie, was it?
I just don't know what they did to uh to
Ron John's eyes? Ron John what's his name? Not Ron John,
Don John Don John Don John. Yeah. Remember he made
(05:10):
a movie about a guy who was addicted to internet
porn but started dating Scarlett Johnson. What yeah? Wait wait yes,
Don John Don Juan. Wasn't it? No? I think it
was John. Okay, you're thinking of Don Juan DeMarco, which
was a great movie. But you're talking about j g L.
That's I didn't know. You're talking about a character that's
(05:30):
like the guy's not called any of those things, you know,
but he like he wrote that movie that was like
his movie, His baby, that was pretty good. They said,
what do you want to do? You can do anything
you want, and he's like, well, I have this one idea.
I want to make out with Scarlett Joe answer all right.
I liked him in Third Rock from the Sun. I
never saw that. It was a surprisingly good sitcom actually,
(05:53):
and it was pretty well written and well acted, stellar cast. Well, yeah,
anything with what's his face? Syndum super into. Yeah, everybody
loves what's his face? I know who you're talking about.
What's his face? I'm blanking everything. You know, we should
tell people were recording in the morning. That's why. Oh
my brain is so foggy. I hadn't really thought about that.
(06:14):
But yeah, it's gonna make a substantial difference. It's gonna
really drag this one down. I think we haven't done
that in a long time. No, for good reason. It's
John Lithgow that you're thinking. That's right. But I'm also drunk,
so hopefully it'll from the night before, from last night
I thought you stunk. Um, I think so yet. No,
I didn't actually drink a thing last night. For the record,
(06:40):
I did not either. Oh good, we're both teetotally last night.
So um, yes, bad movie. The only good thing about
the Man on Wire movie was, um, some of the
shots of the actual walk itself. Most of that looked
really astounding. But um man, it was so bad. Well,
(07:01):
you know, I think that there's an overreliance on special
effects these days to really move a movie along, rather
than good old fashioned plot and and writing and dialogue.
They're just like, oh no, no, we're gonna have these
great shots. Are these great effects? Or this thing's gonna
blow up. I mean that's long been a problem. I
mean it's like what action movies are made of, right,
(07:23):
but it seems to have crept its way into movies
all over the spectrum. Yeah, and it sounds like what
you're talking about, and this is well and he did this,
he did this. Uh, he broke the third wall and
did a lot of talking to the audience in this
ridiculous from accent, and um did he really? Yeah? Man,
it was. It was all just weird, a lot of
weird choices. And I think it's also a case of
(07:46):
a documentary that's so good just stop there. Yeah, you
don't need to see it played out fictionally, you know.
I mean that's like one of the pinnacles of documentary filmmaker.
Al Right, well we killed some time. Yeah, that was great.
Check we can So we're talking about the the guy
you're talking about. I can't believe neither one of us
can remember the actual man's name. Um. He he walked
(08:10):
on a tight rope between the World Trade Center towers.
That's not buildering. Um, there are people. There's a guy
named Shipwreck Kelly who used to um go up on
like the top of like a construction site and like
stack chairs and sit on top of them. That's an
absolutely insane not building. Buildering is strictly climbing up scaling
(08:32):
a building on the outside to preferably get to the top, right,
And there's all different ways you can do it, like
you can do it um free climbing, which is absolutely
totally and completely insane. And also I want to go
on record here about this as well. Do not do this.
(08:54):
Do not. I don't care if you're one of the
people were talking about. I'm I'm begging with you to
stop doing what you're doing. It's one of the most
dangerous things in person can do. You're climbing a building,
and a lot of buildings are not made to be climbed.
Some of them are like, well, yeah, I mean that's
an obvious building to climb. Others are like how are
you doing this, especially if you're free climbing. But there's
(09:15):
a lot of other implements people people can use that
will go over as well. But that that is building.
It's not like Philippe Petite who walked on a wire
right right, that's sorry, I had to look up that name.
I'm glad you did to stop people from screaming in
their car. Yeah. Should we talk about the history, Yeah,
let's because this was to me the most interesting thing
(09:36):
about all of this is when I think of buildering
or climbing buildings, I think, well, this has been going
on for probably thirty forty years max, maybe about the
time that Mountain Dew really turned extreme. That's right, Uh,
not true at all. And I was genuinely shocked to
know that people have been climbing buildings and in an
(10:00):
extreme sports way. They just didn't call it that. Then,
since there have been tall buildings right like in nineteen
hundred is when this started, which is about the time
people started building like genuinely tall buildings. Yeah, it's crazy.
There's a guy called the father of modern urban climbing, uh,
Jeoffrey Winthrop Young, And he wrote a book, small book
(10:25):
called a guide book, if you will, called The Roof
Climbers Guide to Trinity about Trinity College buildings in Cambridge, England.
And basically it was like, here's how you do it, mates,
here's what you should climb on campus, and here's the
best way to go about it. Yeah, and like there
were even little diagrams that was like that would show
(10:47):
you which way to climb. He would reference like this
one window sill or there's a ledge next to this
one drain pipe or the actual drain pipe work. Like
he really kind of spelled out how you could make
your way up to each olding and it was kind
of like this cool underground thing to do on Trinity
College's campus. That's right, And I can't still it's hard
(11:09):
to believe to me that this is going on a
uh yeah yeah, I mean college didn't have always been
college students, So don't you think that's true? You know? So? Um,
Jeoffrey Winthrop Young his name really is kind of fun
to say, isn't it. Um, he published this is kind
of like a little underground smash. From what I understand,
(11:30):
the the deans of the college were not happy about
this to suppress it, right. Um. But then almost forty
years later, another pamphlet or mini book came out and
it was written student pseudonymously by someone named Whipple Snaith
turned out to be Noel Symington. Another great game, and
(11:54):
he he published something called The Night Climbers of Cambridge,
another university in Cambridge, and um basically did the same thing.
It was you could even call it a follow up,
and he actually I think coined that term night climbing,
which is still used around that town today to denote
climbing up buildings at night. And the whole reason you
do it at night it is because you don't want
(12:16):
to get caught. Yeah, it's crazy that Cambridge was the
was the birth of modern you know, extreme climbing. Yeah. Uh.
And here in the United States, however, when it really
started happening was when we started building skyscrapers, that is
to say, the the first like years of the twentieth century. Uh,
and there were it's weird there. It seems like there's
(12:38):
been a lot of Spiderman and human flies and think
they maybe he should just be a little more original
rather than just say I'm the new Spider Man, right. Uh.
And for God's sake, that they should stop wearing Spider
Man outfits when they do this, because that just looks
kind of silly. And while we're on it, they should
stop making Spider Man movies over and over again. Oh
(12:58):
the new one is so good though, is it? I
haven't seen it. Yeah, And I'm totally against the whole
thing where it's like and there's a new guy, but
this new one really like kind of captured the comic
book thing. Okay, I'll give it a shot. Yeah, I was.
I was pretty taken with it. Okay. So, yeah, we
started building skyscrapers here in the US and almost out
(13:20):
of the gate, people are like, I want to climb that,
and some people didn't, like you were saying. There was
one guy who's the Human Fly, the original human Fly,
I think, and supposedly he got that nickname from Grover Cleveland,
president at the time. But this guy's name was Harry H.
Gardner and he was quite a character. Actually, yeah, did
you look up pictures of this dude. It's crazy. He
(13:42):
looks like, uh, I mean, I don't know what I expected,
maybe that he would just look a little different from
his peers of the day, but he literally looks like
he walked out of an accounting office in New York
City and started climbing buildings. Yeah, that's basically it's basically
what he did. And he got really good at it too. Yeah,
(14:02):
he got the slick back hair and the glasses. And
there's one great picture of him. He would usually wear
this kind of look like a weird white jumpsuit was
his outfit as the Human Fly. But um, there's this
one that one great picture I hope you saw it
where he's hanging off of a building ledge and a
full three piece suit like doffing his cap. I did
(14:24):
see that. Pretty neat, Yeah he had he had a
little bit of pinoche. You could say, yes, yeah, is
there anything Okay, No, there is something more unsettling. But something,
something very unsettling, is old timey athletic wear, you know.
And the other thing I thought of that's even more
unsettling his old timey wheelchairs. The weaker ones. They look
(14:47):
neither comfortable nor safe. No, and they're they're clearly haunted
by their past occupants. Yeah, for sure, the haunted wheelchair.
That's a good short story. I think so too. Man
um so Gardner are one of his first big moves
as he climbed Detroit News is twelve story uh Ad
building in nineteen sixteen. And as you'll see, with most
(15:09):
of these folks, they don't I mean they call it
night climbing. But aside from the early days, they kind
of said, you know what, that's kind of for the birds.
Day climbing is where it's at because we kind of
want people to see us. Yeah, because I mean, at
the time, people didn't have a lot to do. You know,
it's a big thing, like you could sit around and
and read and that's great, but people were looking for
(15:32):
stuff to do during the day too. So yeah, like
you you could see Daredevil's doing crazy stuff in the
cities around this time. And one of them was that
climb of the Detroit News building. Did you say it
was twelve stories? Yeah, twelve stories and you know he
hit it right at noon when people could leave their
offices at lunch leave their martinis on the table. Um.
(15:54):
And the Detroit News actually covered it, and all the
newspapers were always knocked out by these, you know, feats
of daring do uh And they said they dared not cheer.
Men stood and stared with bulging eyes. Women hugged their
babies to their breasts and held their breath. Yeah it's
a lot. It reads easier than it than it speaks
(16:14):
that line. Yes, you're right, but um, so this was
like a huge deal in Detroit, and so Gardner was like, well,
I'll just do it again. It was pretty easy this time.
I lived. Let's let me press my luck another time,
let me cheat death again. So we scheduled another one
just a couple of days later. But um, Apparently the
crowds that turned out were so massive and throwing the
(16:37):
area and just disrupted everything around there that they're like,
we we can't do this, you can't climb, so they
canceled it. Yeah, it's kind of a bummer, but he
would not be deterred. He would go on to climb
many buildings, including the sixteen story Empire Building in Birmingham, Alabama,
which I didn't know Birmingham had. I know, this is
(16:58):
like back in the time when any city had a
shot at being a great American city. You know. Oh
he had to do is get a little investment, maybe
has some cattle or timber or something, and then build
some skyscrapers. That's right in Birmingham is one of the
great American cities, by the way. Uh. And then in Vancouver,
and it seems like a lot of this has happened
(17:18):
over the years. In Vancouver, Um, the coup, the seventeen
story World Building. Uh, there he climbed as well. Yes, yeah,
so he's like traveling North America climbing these buildings is
like a public spectacle. The President calls him the human fly. Um,
he's feeling pretty great and then all of a sudden,
(17:39):
he just drops out of public view and thence he
drops off the side of the building. No, he didn't.
No one knows what happened to him. They don't know
how he died, where he went, or anything like that.
But supposedly the best guess is that he was found
he was murdered in Paris at the Eiffel Tower, because
there was an unidentified body that apparently matched his description
(18:02):
that was found beaten to death at the base of
the Eiffel Tower in I think six or something like that. Yeah,
imagine a lot of people didn't get beaten to death
in Paris either back then. No, they were taking a
break after the rain of tear. They're like, that really
got out of hand. Let's all just be peaceful for
a while. Shall we take a break? Yeah, alright, we'll
(18:24):
go chalk up and uh scale Jerry's desk over there. Hey, Chuck,
(18:58):
So we're back and all of this is m reminded
me of the going over the Niagara Falls in a
Barrel episode. Oh that's right, that was another one. Um.
I feel like we should do an episode on like
Daredevils in general. You know, we did that two part
around Evil Kinevil, we did one of Daredevils? Um did
(19:19):
we on Daredevil's I knew we did Stuntman and Canniball run.
I think we did Daredevils. Huh, I I think I
think this closes the book. Oh, I was gonna say,
I think we need to reduce some of this stuff.
All right, but do you remember the one guy who
went over the falls and um over, yeah, over Niagara
Falls in a barrel and lived and then died I
think slipping on an orange peel like years later in
(19:42):
the Three Students episode. That's like the greatest worst thing
I've ever heard. It's pretty good. So so who else
Gardner leads the way? Apparently he was known for saying, um,
like a hundred something men have tried to do what
I do and died trying, which is a lie. Probably
there's probably some people who did you know, died emulating
(20:04):
him or imitating him. But there were other successful ones too,
successful human Flies, early Spider Man, if you will. Yeah,
going back again to the nineties, this is a little
out of order sequentially, but a dude named Henry Roland
broke his hip felt only about thirty five ft in Iowa,
climbing the Davis County Courthouse and this was kind of
(20:27):
took him out of commission for a while, but he
would not be deterred as well. That's the kind of
the rolling narrative here with these dudes, as you can't
keep him down. Eight years later he returned climbed that
same courthouse and only twelve minutes, which is pretty impressive,
and then put his hat on the head of the
blind Justice statue. I know. That's the thing, like, this
(20:49):
is a time when not wearing a hat was so
scandalous that human flies would wear a hat out of
doors while they were climbing, you know, I just love that.
And then there was a dude that died too, right, Yeah,
I think there are a lot of guys that died,
but this one was I think fairly well known and died. HF.
Young died in nineteen three. He fell off the Hotel
(21:11):
martinique Um which was a nine story drop for him.
Which will do it? That will? That will kill you?
Although I was on Mosaic Science magazine site and they
had um I think it was called how to Survive
a Fall or something like that, and it was basically
about like on your way down what to do? Yeah, um,
(21:33):
but not just like what to do. It wasn't just
an instructional thing it was. It was also like a
look at the study of falling and how we fall,
which is kind of an understudied thing, but there are
some people who are really like taking a hard look
at it, and um, I don't remember the exact gist
of it, but they do kind of tell you exactly
the best way to improve your chances from a huge
(21:55):
fall and you don't know that now, No, I forgot,
so I'm I'm dead meat if I fall. That's probably
the one key takeaway. Well, I think the key takeaway
is everybody should go read this article. It's from Mosaic
Science magazine and it's called I think like how to
Survive a fall. Jeez. Yeah, it's a good one. That's
a good reading. So HF young dies very sad, and
(22:16):
then the couple of more folks died the next year.
And then that's when cities started to say, all right,
we're not calling it buildering yet because we're not in
a time machine, but these crazy dudes need to knock
it off. Yeah, They're like, this is wildly irresponsible for
us to allow this and not only allow it, but
like assemble the citizens at lunchtime to come watch this thing,
(22:41):
you know for sure, So they did, they started an
outlaw and it kind of fell to the wayside. And
um some of these early guys, like you said, building
is not a term yet, so there called urban climbers,
at least they are now. But there's a there's actually
a pretty big distinction between urban climbing and builder, although
they can very frequently overlap, and some people do both.
(23:04):
Um But urban climbing is like that would include climbing
up a ladder on a construction crane, on the top
of a skyscraper, as some people do. Oh yeah, I
can't see those videos. I know. It's it's just too
much um or it could be like climbing up a
bridge or something. But it's you're you're using like other
things besides just the face of the building, which is
(23:29):
that's kind of like one of the requisites of building
is you're not using any of the ladders or anything
that's intended to be climbed. You're you're using the building
at the facade of the building itself, although sometimes that
can um imitate a ladder, as we'll see here in
a minute. But you're right, nothing extra right. Uh, So
(23:50):
we jump from you know, I guess the nineteen thirties
or so. Like you said, it tailed off for a
long time for good reason, and then finally in the
nineteen seventies and eighties started to pick back up again. Uh,
namely in the late nineteen seventies with a man named
George Willig. Uh he was a toy maker, so he
had a sense of whimsy I imagine um for the
Ideal Toy Company. And he took a p t O
(24:13):
d literally and said, uh, well, he didn't tell anyone,
but he took a p t O day a little
personal time to go climb the World Trade Center. Yep,
I'd love this guy a lot. Actually yeah, he did
in three and a half hours. And he actually had
a rig. He was not a free climber because that
would just be insane um and probably not possible with
(24:35):
the World Trade Center which was mostly glass. But he
figured out a way, uh to to fit a device
over the window washers scaffold and then it fit. And
if you see pictures of this guy doing so, you
know between the World Trade Center it had these grooves
between the windows, and he probably rigged something of his
own making. Yeah, he made it himself. Yeah, that would
(24:58):
fit between the channel between those windows. Uh. And apparently
after he figured that out, it wasn't too tough. Well
it was. It was like, um, I think it was
still tough. But this implement that he designed was you know,
pretty ingenious. Well that he climbed with relative ease, right right, yeah, yeah,
(25:18):
better than free climbing or something like that. For sure.
He was using implements. But the thing when he when
he pressed down on it, it's it would slide into
these slats that the window washing machine was supposed to
go up and down on, like you were saying, um,
And when he pressed down on it, it would lock
into the sides, and when he like lifted up on it,
it would unlock, so he could just kind of like
(25:39):
shimmy up like that. Right. And he had the foresight
to bring a little hammer with him because he was like,
you know what, I'll bet that thing is not perfect
all the way up. And he brought a little hammer
with him and needed it many times to like hammer
it out to about the shape that he needed it
to be. But he, um, he made this climb and
(26:04):
a couple of cops. One of them was a specialist
in suicides. Uh, we're lowered down on an actual window
washing conveyance and said, you know, they were given the
task of talking this guy down, and apparently at some
point they were like, oh, you you mean to do this?
You're you're just climbing the World Trade Center, that's all
(26:27):
you're doing. Huh. And then I would have just walked
up and jumped off, dummy, right exactly, like this seems
a little hard for that. But they they left him
alone until he got to the top, and then of
course they arrested him right when he when he got
to the top. But um, he made it to the
top for sure. Yeah. And originally apparently the city was
going to find him a big old fat and this
(26:48):
is the ninety seven a quarter million bucks, which it's
a lot of money today, but certainly a lot of
money backs in. But Mayor Beam, I guess, was charmed
and taken with the uh the attention it brought maybe
the New York City and said I'm gonna find you
a penny per floor. So he paid a find of
a dollar in ten cents, right, And I think there
(27:10):
was probably a lot of public pressure to leave this
guy alone because he became a celebrity overnight when he
did this. I mean he was he was big time
all of a sudden, and he's just this you know,
thoughtful toymaking guy who who just decided he wanted to
do this and made his own implements, you know, and
all of a sudden, now he's on like Johnny Carson
(27:30):
and Merv Griffin and all the late night talk shows. Um.
He got work as a stunt man on a bunch
of shows, including The six Million Dollar Man, like just
that one clime like made him famous still to this day.
I think he's he's one of the u for sure,
one of the dudes that people look back on as
like very revered in this sport. Yeah, I agree. You
(27:52):
don't hear people doing stuff like this anymore, do you am?
I just not hearing about it. Yeah, you're not hearing
about it. Um, well, because we'll get to him. That
uh Ellen Robert guy. He's still climbing as a little
buns off. There's a little tight climbing buns stupid sexy
Flanders classic one that there's a dude and he still
(28:20):
climbs as well. I believe California man named Dan Goodwin,
and he was silly enough to put on a Spider
Man costume, which I guess it feels cool at the time,
but it just never looks good, especially after you've seen
the movies and like the really cool outfits that they
put the Spider Man in. So the Walmart version right
(28:42):
when you're just like a kid at Halloween, were clearly
see what kind of like sneakers you're wearing not so
cool underneath the red spats. They're supposed to cover them,
but don't. Yeah, like if he had the real Hollywood suit,
it would might look kind of, you know, awesome, but
no such luck for Dan Goodwin. Plus, also, if you're
gonna go to this kind of trouble and do something
this publicly, like to take an extra month and design
(29:05):
and manufacture your own costume. Agreed, get a little cape
in there something sure, although that might get in the way. Well,
it had to be a very lightweight, thin, small cape.
I would half size. Maybe I would be a nude builderer.
Could you imagine? Now I can? I'll sit with you
(29:28):
for a while. Um. So, Dan Goodwin dressed up his
spidy and he climbed the sears Tower in Chicago, which
is now the Willis Tower at the time the Year's Tower,
it's still the Sears Tower. Yeah, I agree. Uh, And
then would go on to climb the John Hancock Tower,
also in Chicago, and then he said, that's beans, I'm
(29:49):
gonna go climb the Sea In Tower in Toronto because
I think it's over eight feet tall, and at the
time it was the world's tallest structure, which made him
the top dog for a bit. And he climbed that
CN Tower twice in the same day. Yeah. Why because
it was there. I guess, I don't know. Maybe somebody
(30:10):
was like, that wasn't the big of a deal and
he's like, oh yeah, I'll do it again. I'll see
in a couple of hours. Jerk. Uh. And then Goodwin
was then followed um by the man we were just
talking about, a Frenchman or a Frenchman name Alan Robert
or is it Elaine? I never know how to pronounce
that when the eye is stuck in there, Uh, I
don't know, Ellen, Okay, Yeah, that sounds nice. Yeah. This
(30:35):
is in the mid nineties and he he is a
bit of a stand alone, not a stand alone, but
a stand apart at least because while he occasionally will
use some equipment, what he really likes to do is
get out there, get some chalk on his hands, and
tackle a building. Yeah. This guy is, I mean, in
my opinion, the greatest builder who's ever lived, at the
(30:58):
very least the riskiest, or at the very least the
most well known. Too. I've ran across another guy named
Um Mustang Wanted. I don't think that's his actual name.
That's what he goes by, Mustang Wanted. He named his
himself after an ad on Craigslist, right exactly. And he
does from what I can tell free free climbing, buildering. Um.
(31:23):
And he's younger and just kind of not well known.
I'm sure he's quite well known in the buildering circles
or the serving climbing circles. But um, yeah, Elaine Robert, Robert, right,
Alan Robert. What am I doing? He? Um like he's sponsored.
He's that well known by you want to tell him by? Who?
(31:44):
I think you should tell him? Well, what's the name
of the company. I know it's a hair replacement company.
It's like a Nuvigil nor Jill, nor Jill or nor Gill,
one of them. We're having a lot of trouble with
the words that circle in this guy's universe. Yeah, that's
because this morning. But he uh yeah, God bless him.
He has some some hair loss going on. So he
(32:06):
got the sponsorship that made sense for his life. It's
good for him, right, good for that guy. And he
also wore Spider Man outfit, so just stop, dudes, get
the Spider Man. He doesn't always he would from time
to time. I think it might be like a tradition
now maybe an inside joke I don't know, or maybe
(32:26):
they really are, like this is gonna make it feel
so much cooler when I build her this building. Should
we take another break? I think? So? All right, we're
gonna go getting our Spiderman costumes and finish the show
that way. So, UM, we talked about how like these
(33:08):
guys can get kind of famous actually, and some of
them use their platforms for for good, like l A.
Robert Um, he'll go both ways, right, Like he's taken
um tens of thousands of dollars to climb a building
to promote like a Spider Man movie or something like that.
Really that's why he was dressed as Spider Man. Did
he really do that? Um? And then. But on the
(33:32):
other hand, he's well known to like unfurraled banners at
the top that promote like, um, like uh, the climate
change stuff like that, right, Yeah, Like there was a
one website called a hundred months dot org that he
was promoting. I think back in the late nineties that
um basically positive that we had like a hundred months
(33:54):
before the earth was irreversibly changed by climate change. And
I don't think that that has has panned out as successful,
that website and changing the world's mind yet. Um. Other
people have done the same though, uh, either promotional stuff
or banners, sometimes like you said, for good Uh, sometimes
(34:15):
for dough because the builder has got to eat after all. Sure,
you gotta be able to get to the places. If
you're traveling the world, you need airplane money. Yeah, and
sometimes like you said with the was it Willig that
went on to um do some stuntman work. Yeah he did. Yeah,
that's a good way to get work. Um. Sebastia was
(34:40):
the guy in Casino Royal. I just want to apologize
to the entire country of France for this episode. You
don't listen now, You're right, that's fine, We're good then, uh.
He was the one in Casino Royal who doubled up
um James Bond and did all the I think he
did all the parkour and the building and that's that
(35:00):
stunt scene. Yeah he did. It was pretty neat. Yeah,
that was a thrilling scene for sure. Yeah. And we
have to talk about the scene in uh Mission Impossible
Ghost Protocol thrilling as well. Apparently it was for real.
It was, dude, and it really was Tom Cruise doing
that stunt. It was I watched the full scene again today.
(35:23):
I watched the behind the scenes of the making of
that scene. Uh. This is when he uh went out
of the window of the Birch Birch Khalifa in Dubai,
which is the world's tallest tower at seventeen feet and
h that I think what you want about Tom Cruise.
(35:45):
I'm still sort of in and out with that guy.
But that scene is one of the most thrilling scenes
in action movie history to me. And the idea that
it was real, yeah, I mean, and of course he
was fully cabled and tethered, uh, and it was as
(36:06):
as safe as you can imagine something being And then
they go in and erase all that stuff in post production.
But it's still he's still up there doing this stuff,
running down the side of the building, launching himself off
the side and swinging around, and uh, it's just it's amazing,
really really great action movie scene. It is a lot
(36:30):
of those movies were pretty good that um Mission Impossible
ones turned out. Okay, yeah, I think all of them
were good except for the Uh, I guess it was
too the John Woowin. That's what everybody says. What was
wrong with that? I don't even know if I saw
it or not. I don't know. I think he it
just I don't know. It just wasn't that good. I
can't remember if it was, like, because you know, besides
(36:51):
good action and stuff, he still have to have a
good story for Mission Impossible and good um impossible mission stuff, right,
and they didn't have that. I think I remember it
just not having a very good plot in and good
Mission impossible type stuff. It didn't feel Mission Impossible like
to me. But they once brad Bird got back onto
(37:12):
the director like those those were good in my opinion. Yeah,
but that's what I'm saying, Like, you need to have plot,
you need to have a story, you have a good dialogue,
so if you're gonna do this, you should be prepared
to be arrested, right, But don't do it. No, No,
that's great, great point, Chuck. Don't do this because if
(37:33):
you were going to you'd be arrested. Like apparently Elaine
Robert has been arrested like a hundred times or something
like that. Um, and he's become so infamous. He never
announces publicly what he's going to do. He just shows
up at the building apparently in the morning and just
starts climbing, you know, and people take note. Right. Um.
(37:53):
He also apparently is so famous that he was seen
hanging around inside maybe on a tour or something of
the Shard in London, and the building's owners got freaked
out and they went to court and got a restraining
order against him to keep them away from their building forever.
They're like, I know why you're here. You're you're not
a scout, you're casing the place. Yeah, I mean, it's
(38:15):
obviously a liability for property owners. Um, although some have
paid people and invited them to do so to give
them press. So it's a it's a weird sort of
mix of illegality and like, hey, come do this thing. Yeah,
and I mean for the most part though, if the
building owner doesn't want you there, it's it's because they're
they're covering their bottoms, you know, like they if you
(38:37):
fall off, and even worse, if you fall off and
you fall on to some other people. Yeah, that's that's
a big problem for them. I never thought about that. Yeah,
it's I mean, it's not just you whose life is
in jeopardy in that respect, but you're also like draining
like public resources because the cops have to keep everybody
back a safe distance. It's a selfish sport for it
(38:59):
really is a selfish dangel sport. But um, like there's
there's a lot of stuff you can get in trouble,
for the least of which is probably criminal trespassing, right, Yeah,
and the cops don't really know what to do with you.
And apparently in Chicago, um they tried to blast uh
spider Dan what was his last name, Dan Goodwin, Dan
(39:19):
Goodwin off of the building with fire hose. That's what
he says. I saw elsewhere that they tried to get
him off the building using various means. He's the one
who said that it was with a fire hose. We're
talking about the Chicago Police, so it's entirely possible. Yeah.
He also claimed that Fire Commissioner William Blair threatened to
kill him if he did this again. And both of
(39:39):
these are claims from Dan Goodwin um who by the way,
there was an article in Wired magazine about him and
uh Elaine Robert and it was to both them their
inspirations in life, and Elaine Roberts were Zoro and Robin Hood.
So's he's clearly grounded in reality. Uh. And then good
ones are Bruce Lee makes sense, Carlos Castanada, mm hmm,
(40:05):
Steve Jobs, are you ready for the last one? John Lennon,
famous extreme sportsman. Yeah, John Lennon, you can parkour like
a gorilla. Yeah, I remember that a song. All we're
saying is get building a chance, which was wildly irresponsible
(40:26):
to or imagine there's no building. It's easy if you
try so do this all day. One of the one
of the things, well, this is good because it's actually
getting the image of you naked building out of my head.
So maybe keep it up now. Naked John Lennon is
building in your head. Um. So, man, that really threw
(40:47):
me off because you can picture him naked because I
forgot where I was going. Yeah, I can picture like
his his flank and rump. Yep, you know how can
you just picture instead of Yoko oh no, him clinging
to the side of the building. And now I know
Aaron Cooper will be sending something. Yeah, for sure, I
know what I was gonna say, Dan, Dan Goodwin, Um
(41:10):
he was actually he said he was inspired by the
Las Vegas MGM Grand fire in the early eighties. I
think maybe, um, which, I think we should do an
episode on hotel fires too. It sounds weird and gruesome
and it is, but there's actually like a lot of
crazy history involved in there. And yeah, there was one
(41:31):
in Atlanta in the early days. Yeah, the I can't
remember what it was back then, but there's Yeah, they
revamped that hotel. You can go to it now. Um
it's right down there by where the Hawks play Phillips. Yes, so,
but I can't remember the name of it off the
top of my head. But yeah, we should do a
hotel fires one. Okay, very dark idea. So apparently, um
(41:55):
Goodwin saw that hotel fire and saw people were trapped
in that the fire department had no way to get
to them, and he was already a climber. I just
don't think he was a builder. And he apparently went
up to the fire chief for the person in charge
of fighting his fires, like, let me climb up there
and put some cables in place, and you guys can
go get these people out. And the guy was like,
(42:16):
I'm going to have you arrested if you don't leave
right now. Yeah. I mean, his heart was in the
right place, but fire chiefs kind of want to just
do their thing and not have citizens offered to put
themselves in danger on top of that, especially if they're
just as Spider Man in an ill fitting child's costume
at the time. Chief, Yeah, I got a great idea.
(42:39):
But supposedly he went and started climbing the outside of
buildings to kind of proved that this could be done
and that it should be done, and um, that people
could be saved, that you could use this kind of
thing as a way to assist um fire departments during fires,
which so far I don't think anyone's ever taken them
up on it. They don't have builders on the on
the payroll, no. Um. So one final thing I want
(43:03):
to mention is that, uh, there's this one building new
York Times building in two thousand eight that Elain Robert climbed,
and the cop that was interviewed by the New York
Times was silly enough to say, well, look at this thing.
You don't have to be a professional, like the building
looks like a ladder, and someone read that, and then
apparently later on that same day, someone who didn't wasn't
(43:25):
even an experienced builder from Brooklyn went out and climbed
the thing successfully. Yeah. Pretty interesting. Yeah, and there have
been unsuccessful climbs. There's one guy who was climbing a
building in Houston and felt like thirty stories in two
thousand three. Um, and he was reported by an eyewitnesses
is purposefully jumping. Um, but I don't know. Apparently the
(43:48):
buildering community doesn't necessarily buy that. He said no, thank you, Yeah,
Ryan John Hartley was his name. That's very sad. It
is sad, and it also goes to show just how
dangerous this this is dangerous. Don't do it, even if
you've got the best tom Cruise suction cups you you
can get your hands on, and you've got uh nice
some ropes and some friends who are really trustworthy, just
(44:10):
don't do it, Okay, I agreed. Uh, well, since I
said just don't do it, that's your queue to go
look this article up on how Stuff Works dot com.
And since I said that it's time for listener mail,
I'm gonna call this. I forgot to get a listener mail,
so I'm gonna read the first one on the latest email.
(44:30):
It's like Russian Roulette with listener mail. Um, yeah, this
one's okay, not bad. Subject lines sleepy while reading. Uh.
Dear Josh and Chuck, thanks for all the hard work
and humor you put into stuff. You should know. Podcasts
have been a constant companion to me for the last
seven years. Taught me about agent orange while painting landscapes,
Jim Hinson while working out at the gym, and bioluminescence
(44:54):
while riding the bus in China. Wow, he's got an
exciting life. Um, there's one thing I really do need
to know, though, Why do I always doze off while
I'm reading? I'd like to learn enjoy reading, but over
the past few years I struggled to stay conscious. Whyn't
when I read? I was hoping you could shed some
light on this, as you're both avid readers. That is
Harrison Gibbs, and he has a PS. I've been enjoying
(45:16):
Internet round Up and don't be dumb on Amazon Prime.
My sympathies to Chuck is, I know the struggle of
Beard Dan drip is real and we referenced it. T
sell shampoo and Beard Oil has helped me. That's Harrison Gibbs. Uh.
I don't know the answer, but that is a for
sure thing. Like if you want to fall asleep at night,
(45:38):
put your phone down or your e reader and read
a good old fashioned book. It's like a paper valume. Yeah,
it might just do it, yep, but they're science behind it. Sure,
well look at it. We don't forget to Yeah, if
we don't fall asleep while we're looking it up. Thanks Harrison,
appreciate that. If you want to get in touch with
this like he did, you can tweet to us at
Josh I'm Clark or s Y s K Podcast. You
(45:59):
can hit up Facebook at Charles W. Chuck Bryant or
Stuff if you should Know right. You can send us
an email to Stuff Podcast at how Stuff Works dot com.
There's always joined us at our home on the web.
Stuff you Should Know dot com for more on this
and thousands of other topics is that how stuff works
(46:20):
dot com
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