November 30, 2010 • 41 mins
Circumcision is a common practice in which the foreskin of a male's penis is removed, typically as a baby. Josh and Chuck take a look at the origins, practices, and arguments for and against circumcision in this episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the Reinvented twenty twelve Camra. It's ready.
Are you welcome to stuff you should know from HowStuffWorks
dot Com? Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Joshua
m clark. With me is Charles W. Bryant that makes
(00:21):
this stuff. You should nizzo and that's that. Hi. Hey,
josh m Clark, Joshua, Joshua m clark. Yes, you don't
have a fancy setup today, I have an intro. Okay,
let's hear it. Okay, Wow, Chuck, you really kind of
get up against the wall, aren't you today? Are you
(00:43):
waiting on me a little bit? Okay? Are you ready?
I'm ready, Chuck. Josh Have you ever heard of Lloyd Schofield?
I have not? Yes, you have? You always do this?
Who is he? Uh? He is a guy out in
San Francisco who has proposed, Yes, next Novembers, I guess,
(01:03):
referendum elections. It wouldn't even be midterm. What do you
call the elections between midterm and you know, the big
one quarter term? I don't know. Okay, we'll call it that.
For next November's ballot in San Francisco, there may be
a referendum if Floyd Schofield has anything to do with
it that outright bans male circumcision in San Francisco. Well, yeah, obviously,
(01:24):
but you got to start somewhere. Yeah, Schofield needs seventy
one hundred signatures. Huh and basically read the read the provision, Chuck,
the wording of the proposed referendum, it would make it
a misdemeanor to circumcise, xcise, cut, or mutilate the genitals
of a person under eighteen, right, and he he says
(01:47):
it's genital mutilation. That's how he feels, and other people
feel that way too. Yeah, he's definitely not on his
own in that one. There's some people in this CBS
AP article they're like, it's a little too far. It
should be the choice of the parents, Schofield's idea, And
it's kind of it kind of appears in this in
the wording of the ballot measure that it's a parent's choice,
(02:11):
but it's not the choice of most people who are circumcised,
because they're generally circumcised as newborn infants. Yeah, little boys are.
And he likened it to tattooing because you're not allowed
to tattoo a child. When did you start saying tattooed
like that? What do you mean? Tattoo? Is that weird? Yeah,
it's a little weird. It's like humans. Well that's what
(02:33):
he says. He said that, you know, to felony, to
tatoo a kid. So he's really laughing in there, Yeah,
to tattoo a child. And so he says it's the
same thing. Well, yeah, he's actually saying it's way way
worse than tattooing exactly. But he is saying it's a
long the same lines as a choice by the parents
that is possibly against the child's will later on. And
(02:56):
that's that. So let's talk about circumcision, because this is
a little that's an odd approach to me, you know,
like the way I've always understood it is, you know,
there's circumcision out there. It's not weird, it's not odd.
But as you kind of get older, you realize that there's,
you know, two sides to this whole story, and it
(03:17):
kind of is actually and you kind of come to realize,
like there's people out there who think that people who
aren't circumcised or weird, and people out there who think
that people who are circumcised? Are weird? Right? Exactly? Let's
do some stats, stat man, Well, I think the first
stat we should open with, perhaps, is that if you
are an American boy or a man in the last
(03:41):
thirty years, then there's about a three and five chance
that you are circumcised here in this country over the
past three decades, although that is falling big time. Yeah,
what was the three and five chance now in two
thousand and five. Between nineteen eighty and I think two thousand,
it was three and five, right, Yeah, and then by
(04:02):
two thousand and five it had dropped to about fifty
three percent. Yeah, and the Schofield says that in two
thousand and nine it fell to thirty three percent. That's
a huge job. So in a decade it fell thirty percent.
And they actually think one of the reasons why is
because there's been an increasing presence of Hispanics in the US,
(04:24):
and Hispanics are much much less likely than any other
group to circumcise their male infants. And it's also lower
out west than where there's a larger Hispanic population. Yeah,
in the Midwest, there's about a seventy five percent chance
that you are going to circumcise your boy. Yeah, in
the South, there's half yeah, fifty to fifty, right, it's
(04:46):
like Russian Roulette with a two barreled, two chamber gun. Yeah, yeah, sure.
And then out west, Yeah, it's less than a quarter
of the male infants are circumcised out there every year.
But ultimately there's about one point two million circumcisions. Well
there were in two thousand and five. Yes, so now
(05:07):
we're down to less than that. But in two thousand
and five, they're about one point two million male boys
born in the United States who were circumcised, right, yeah,
And since you mentioned that, that at about two hundred
dollars a pop, even though it's included in your in
your berthen bill, it's about two hundred and forty million
dollars that insurance companies would love to not have to
(05:28):
pay exactly. So there's actually, I don't know if it's
overt support or maybe quiet financial support or whatever, but
the insurance companies are very happy to side with the
anti circumcision movement and medicaid. Yes, of course, So Chuck,
let's talk about the penis. Let's talk about the foreskin.
(05:48):
That's part of it. We're gonna say the word penis
a whole lot ycause you can't avoid it when you're
talking about circumcision. That's right, because let's just go ahead
and set up for our foreign friends who may not
know what circumcisi is. Like Roller Derby circumcision is when
the foreskin of the penis that's also called the prepuse,
is removed. Simple as that. So you got the prepuse
(06:13):
which is the foreskin. Yes, it covers the tip of
the penis, which is also called the glands g L
A N s. Right. And then there's a piece of
connective tissue that works much like the connective tissue that
anchors the bottom of your tongue to the floor of
your mouth. Yes, call a frenulum, and that keeps the
prepuse connected to the glands. Yeah. And they also said
(06:35):
the inner portion of the foreskin is also much like
the inside of your mouth in that it has a
natural moisture to lubricate the glands. It's hot and moist
in there, that's what it says. Yes, Yeah, it provides
lubrication which kind of keeps it safe and sheathed, I
guess right, yeah, from abrasion. And like they mantled, cold
(06:59):
and the dry winter air can be rough on a glands. Yeah,
and they this was a Tom Sheeve article. In my
hat is off to him for this one. Yes, Tom
did a great job with us. I liked your first response,
Thank you, Chuck. It also contains the prep use, also
contains some nerve cells, did net bundles blood special blood cells.
(07:22):
I had no idea, just it makes the penis that
much more sensitive. And the fact that it's it produces
movement aids in stimulation and lubrication. So there's a lot
of people who are happy with their prep use or
foreskin and are very glad that they are uncut. As
the anti circumcision groups would call it right, right or
(07:45):
natural is another one that's right. And since we're talking
about the foreskin, it's not the same on all dudes.
It's like every human body part. It varies from person
to person. And some men actually are sort of naturally
circumcised because they're born with very little foreskin, or they
have foreskins that actually retract during puberty. They go exactly
(08:09):
where maybe said trombone, and they do serve a protective purpose,
but they can also and for people that are on
both sides, we're going to present both sides of the
arguments that don't say, you guys are just talking about
this one side. We're gonna talk about both sides, sure,
of course. But some one camp believes that it can
cause some problems. Well it can. I think everybody agrees
(08:31):
on these, like these are the very rare problems that
can come about it. And we should say that it's
rare though, because one of the big problems that the
anti circumcision folks have is that these are overstated. Like
when you say it can it's easier to get dirty,
and bacteria can build up and all these things can happen.
(08:52):
That is true, but it's not like if you skip
a shower, this is gonna happen. Well, let's talk about this,
because okay, there are some some problems that can arise
just from having an or normal foreskin. One of those
problems because it is like the inside of your mouth
and there warm moist. Gotta keep it clean. You do
have to keep it clean, and if you don't, a
(09:14):
white build up, a white soapy build up, soapy soupy.
This says cheesy in the article cheesy. That's right. A white,
cheesy build up called smegmum can develop and once you
start developing a white, cheesy build up called smegmum within
your foreskin, you want to take a really hard, long
(09:34):
look at your grooming habits. Yeah, did you say smegmum? Smegma? Okay,
Smegmum's maybe the plural. No, I want to make sure
you were saying it right, megma, because the last thing
I want is listener mail on the pronunciation of smegma.
We get all these voice files. Although I've always said shmegma,
but I think smegma. Yeah, maybe I've just said shmegma
(09:56):
for humor sake. Maybe all right, that was around the
time Wayne's what was out, wasn't it properly? So that's
just one that's probably a pretty minor thing. I'm sure
that's easily corrected. Your foreskin, though, can also be well.
It can develop two ways, too tight or too loose right,
(10:17):
and each other problems. Too tight it can cause a
condition known as fimosis. It's like trying to put on
a sweater that's way too small for you. It's a
good way look at it, and that is a medical
that's the main medical determinant for whether or not you
should get a circumcision. Like the main medical reason would
be fimosis. I think that's probably because it's the most frequent.
(10:39):
It's probably the most frequent problem you think. I think, Okay,
if it's too loose, then it's going to be called paraphimosis.
And that's like wearing your dad's sweater. Yes, And it
can cause swelling of the glands in the foreskin. And
there's also something called balan posthesis, which is swelling of
the mucous surfaces of the foreskin, and that can lead
(11:02):
to skin disease, problems with the urethra, pain, all sorts
of things that you don't want to end this in general,
like why, God, why, I would imagine so you can
have your frenulum attached too tightly, that's the frenulum brevy
where it's just like that's like trying to poke your
head through that very very tight sweater. That's a good
(11:24):
way to look at it as well, Thank you, Chuck,
very evocative, Josh. And circumcision can help correct all of
these problems, but it is rarely medically necessary to get circumcised, right,
And like we said, these problems do exist, they are
serious problems. It's at the very least uncomfortable if not,
you know, downright dangerous. Sure, and I think both sides
(11:46):
agree that there are circumstances such as these that do
warrant circumcision. The problem is most circumcision. I'm sure the
vast majority of circumcisions are customary, cultural preventative, right, yeah,
sociological in nature. Let's talk about the origins of circumcision.
(12:08):
When did humans get the idea to cut the foreskin
off of the boys penises? Well? Did it start with
the Bible? This is where tom started. But no, it
didn't start with the egypt As far back as we
can find the Egyptians, we're doing. Okay, that's what we understand. Okay,
Well you want to talk about that, Well, let's talk
about the Bible first, because in the Book of Genesis
(12:29):
God made a covenant with Abraham, and as we all know,
Abraham was a Jewish patriarch and his descendants, Abraham was
the patriarch of the houses of the Jews and the Muslims. Dude, really, yes, Isaac,
his son went on to found the Jews, Well, went
on to found Judaism. He's the father of Judaism. Ishmael
(12:51):
the other son, illegitimate son, right, but he went on
to found Islam. Yes and Isaac. They said, basically, God's
gonna bless Jews with riches and success all the you know,
the land will be fruitful if you get circumcised by
your eighth day, Yes of life. And not just you,
(13:12):
but your sons. Yeah, any servants that you captured, any
sons that those captured servants has. All boys have to
be circumcised. And this has led to the fact that
today ninety eight percent of Jewish Men are in fact circumcised. Right.
And according to biblical tradition, Ishmael was circumcised before he
(13:35):
was basically run off from Abraham's family, right, And so
that kind of formed the basis of the Muslim tradition
of circumcision, which continues today. If you look at Muslim texts,
the Qur'an, apparently it doesn't have any endorsement or mention
of precision, but most Muslims today still do circumcise because
(13:57):
Muhammad apparently was circumcised. So I guess it's a reverence
for their prophet. Yes, and today about two thirds of
every circumcised men on the planet are Muslim. So nine
percent of Jewish Men, yeah, and two thirds of muslim
in circumcised. Well, no, no, thirds of all men on
the planet are Muslim, exactly. That's a tough one, exactly.
(14:22):
It's kind of an odd qualifier. Christian sects don't really
endorse one way or the other. They say, like, you know,
decide amongst your selves and Buddhism and Hinduism, they don't
really have a stance one way or the other. Is
that right? That's right? And we talked about the Egyptians
probably being the earliest group as far as Western culture
is concerned. Like with most things, the Egyptians came up
(14:47):
with this idea, yeah, not necessarily independently, or if it
did independently, they weren't the only ones, but they apparently
were the ones who exposed the early Israelites, the early
Jews too, this concept, right. Yeah. And then at about
the same time, possibly even before other groups, the Mayans
(15:07):
and the Aztecs, Yeah, were both circumcising their boys indigenous Australians,
African Asian and other American tribes, right. Yeah. And Georgians, Yeah,
what is that that? I've never heard of them? The
coal Colchians, Yeah, I hadn't heard of them either, But
(15:27):
as described them, so there were ancient people that is
now modern day Georgia and they were into it. Yeah,
well they practiced it and then so here in the West,
I guess it was strictly religious until about the nineteenth century, right,
and then all of a sudden, medicine is like, we
can do that. Well yeah, but that's also around the
same time that they were doing all sorts of things
(15:50):
saying that this could solve this and this, like we
can treat VD and we can cure homosexuality with circumcision,
and impotence was another one. Yeah, So they were a
little bit off base, I would say there, as in
way off base, I would think, so, yeah, but it
did it did have a lasting impression. The circumcision did
become associated with the medical establishment here in the West,
(16:14):
and that I think that's translated elsewhere. In the Jewish
faith a mohel mohole mole. Okay, they still perform bris
briss briss i brisom I. Just the only thing I
know about that is from Seinfeld when Jerry was supposed
(16:34):
to perform the snap. They they they may still perform
these procedures in the Arab world, in the Muslim world,
that's it's generally done in the medical realm, right, and
then that's actually that was taken away from barbers in
(16:56):
ancient Turkey, and yeah, in Turkey, in the Middle East,
the Middle Ages, barbers used to do amputations, blood lettings, sure,
and circumcisions. Blood lettings like give you a nice leading
and you'll be feeling better, get all the toxins out
of your blood. Let's talk about it around the globe,
like how how it actually goes down like today? Yeah,
(17:19):
Like the Jews still still do it traditionally before the
eighth Day. They kind of stick to that, and Egypt
it's anywhere from birth to about eight years old, and
in Malaysia it's in other places it's like a rite
of passage like at early adolescens. Yeah, some and some
Muslim cultures, once a boy can recite the Quran right once,
(17:43):
like all the way through, right, right, I mean think
about that, then think about it if you don't want
to get circumcised, you like, I remember, once a boy
can do that, that's associated with the time when he'll
be circumcised after that. And you didn't see there's some
really sad cute pictures in this article. Oh yeah, there's
a little boy who's clutching his genitalia under his hospital
(18:07):
gown and crying because he's like second in line to
be circumcised. There's a kid who's being circumcised on page zero.
It's sad stuff. I'm glad I don't print the pictures out. Yeah,
I don't want to see that. In Africa, Josh, it
is also in a lot of tribes a coming of
age type of thing. And here's the deal. In Africa,
though sometimes there's not in these remote areas a trained
(18:30):
professional with all the right equipment, and they do it anyway.
And because of this, there's like a thirty five percent
increased risk of complications, six percent severe complications that possibly
result in partial or full amputation of the penis. Yeah,
but sometimes a traveling circumciser will roll through town in
(18:52):
his ice cream truck and everybody comes out and with
boys of all ages because they know the safe, real
doctor with the real clean equipment is there, and so
they'll bring out boys of all ages to get circumcised
when he rolls through. Yes, which it's a good thing
that happens. Asia, it's extremely rare unless they have thriving
(19:13):
Muslim populations. But in Asia, among Asian cultures, it's pretty uncommon,
except Chuck. In South Korea and the Philippines, circumcision is
pretty common. Who knew the American serviceman knew? Yeah? Is
that the reason why? In Korea? Yes, and the Philippines.
American servicemen stationed there in the ladder half beginning in
(19:34):
the latter half of the twentieth century apparently got the
word leaked out that they were missing their prepuce, and
South Korean's and Filipinos started following suit. Alrighty, well, that's
circumcision around the globe today. If we forgot your country,
then we apologize. Please rite in. Shall we talk about
(19:55):
the procedure itself? Yeah, as Tom put it. Next up,
the big show is that he said, I didn't see
that part. There's some did you So you didn't see
the pictures? I had the illustrations like step by step illustration. Yeah,
I didn't eat it. You had dotted lines like where
you clip out a coupon. They have these. I have
a pretty get idea what's going on down there, So
(20:16):
I didn't. I was just fine with the words. Uh
so what happens Josh is uh a baby? If it's
a baby in infant circumcision. Then they strap the baby
down of course arms and legs, which it just seems
like an awful thing. It's a bad start when you
read it. They give a either a topical anesthetic, uh
you know, rubbed around the area or injected around the
(20:40):
base of the penis to numb the area. There are
a few different devices that the person performing the procedure
can choose from, and I know you know a little
bit about these, I do. Let's hear it. There's like
three things. Well, there's the Gomco clamp, the Mgan clamp,
and the plastic bell device. Right, yeah, so I did.
I didn't really look into the Mogan clamp because it
(21:03):
just too wow. But the Gomco clamp has been around
for a while and that sounds like something you would
see on a late night TV ad. You can actually
buy them on the internet for the two hundred and
thirty bucks. Yeah, search gomcoke clamp. It comes up, and
do not do not buy one and do this at home.
That is in no way an endorsement a coat clamp.
(21:26):
Do any just stop stop right now there. The Gomco
clamp involves a bell with a an arm and appendage
that comes off the tip of the bell, put that in,
pull the foreskin up around the bell. So what you're
doing is you're inserting this metal layer between the glands
and the foreskin. Yeah, like all these things, you're separating
(21:47):
the foreskin from the glands exactly. That's pretty much the
key to circumcision. Sure, you pull it up around, you
slide it through this hole. It has an arm attached
to the top of the bell's holding everything taut, and
then you cut around it and remove the foreskin. The
plastic bell device is similar. It doesn't have the arm
(22:08):
and the clamp holding everything, but basically you're just you're
putting a bell in between the glands and the foreskin,
and then you basically tie off the suture around the
foreskin that's been pulled up right, and then you cut
that and then eventually, after like a few days, the
bell falls off and you're fine, supposedly well, And that's
(22:31):
about the recovery period period if you're an infant is
about three to four days. Plan on having a grumpy
little baby boy for those next few days, and plan
on keeping the area really really clean and maybe you
might even have to bandage it, and just you got
to make sure that you keep it separate from diaper
(22:53):
poo poo, because you don't want a fresh surgery being
around fecal matter not a good thing. No, you're you're
looking at a pretty hefty, little horrible infection there too.
And it takes about thirty minutes. Yeah, if you're an adult,
you don't necessarily need to use any of these other
bells or whistles literally bells. But you can just pull
(23:14):
the foreskin forward, make a couple of incisions, cut off
the frenulum, stitch back. Basically you're stitching this hanging loose
skin to the just to the corona, which is the
strip just below the glands. Yeah, and bamm bada bing
no sex for a couple of weeks, which no one
should have to tell you that, but we're telling you that. Yeah,
(23:36):
that would be common sense. If you ask me, then
it's done. So why are people doing this, Chuck? I mean,
think about that, especially as an adult. Why are people
circumcising both their themselves and their infant sons. Why is
it like all the rage? So this is the argument for,
and we will cover the argument against before you get
upset by Chuck Bryant. Mister Schofield. The reason some of
(23:59):
the reasons, Josh are are obviously, like we said, you're
raised in a religion or a culture where that's the
thing you do, then you would probably do that, right.
Some fathers think that their son's penis should kind of
be like theirs, and they're a little matter fact, nine
tenths of circumcised men opt to have their sons circumcised,
(24:21):
and about three quarters of uncircumcised men opt to have
their sons not circumcised. Yeah, it's about fifteen percent. Main natural. Interesting, Uh,
some parents want their sons to just be like the
rest of the little boys. If and if you live
in the United States and most boys are like that,
they don't want you to stand out in the locker
room and potentially be teased that kind of thing. This
(24:45):
one uncircumcised men or twice as likely to contract HPV
and pass that along here. And apparently circumcision also helps
prevent or protect against chlamytee and syphilis, they say, and
this is from the Journal of American Medical Association. We
should say we should same goes with a study that
(25:07):
found recently that areas that don't circumcise or where circumcision
is uncommon tend to have higher prevalences of HIV. I
don't know if those two are causal, like HIV is
more easily contracted because there's this maybe the blood vessels
(25:29):
are closer to the surface right when the foreskin is attached, yeah,
or if it's just correlated, like maybe they have maybe
these areas have lesser health care right, right, or less
adequate healthcare. Well, at any rate, they put that number
at sixty percent less likely. But it's only it's not
for male to male sex. It's only female to male
(25:51):
transmission right of HIV is what it says. You go.
I know some people think it's cleaner, but that's completely
unsupported from what I can tell medically. Right, that's just
a perception, if I'm not mistaken. And then there are
some who just think it's prettier, yeah, better looking, sleeker,
(26:15):
All right, Josh, that's the case for generally. Let's talk
about people who are against this, like mister Schofield, what
are their arguments. Well, I get the impression that there's
a lot of people who well, the people who are
against it are vehemently against it. One of the biggest
arguments is that it's mutilation. Yeah, general mutilation. It is
genital mutilation. Female circumcision, which we'll talk a little bit
(26:37):
more about in a minute, is basically considered now in
the Western world, the developed world, female genital mutilation, right,
not female circumcision any longer. And the one of the
big points among anti circumcision people is that this is
the same thing with ment. It's just for some reason
more accepted in the West than email circumcision is. Yeah,
(27:01):
but if you're against it, you probably think it's old
fashion and unnecessary. Unnecessary is a big one. Yeah. The
American Academy of Pediatrics considered this in nineteen ninety nine
and said, you know what, we're not going to endorse this.
We're not going to come out against it, but we've
looked at all of the information. We see no medical
reason to do this, and we're not going to endorse it.
So that's that's a big one that the anti circumcision
(27:25):
lobby sites. Oh yeah, when I read that that they
didn't endorse it, or they said that you shouldn't do it.
This is such a tender subject. That kind of got
the impression they were a little bit like, I ain't
going there. Why don't you just decide? Right, Like, we
don't have a lot of data either way, so we're
not going to say. I get the impression that it's
a lot like the natural birth movement. There's a lot
(27:46):
of probably similar sentiment, maybe a lot of crossover actually
between the two. Josh, there are risks of scarring, their
risks of infection. Yeah, this is a big one right here.
It can go wrong. Yeah, and it does like you
can have your penis lopped off because of a bad circumcision. Yeah,
that's a pretty good reason not to do it. I
don't think it's super common. It's very uncommon. Yeah, but
(28:09):
when you're talking about your your maybe you're only male son,
it can only be a male son, but your only son.
Do you want to take that kind of risk? I
don't know yet. Well, yeah, sure, I don't know. Stop
pressuring me. No, I'm not pressuring you. I was just
I'm not asking you. I'm just asking theoretically. But I
think that's probably the sentiment among a lot of like
(28:30):
first time parents, you know, like should we do this?
I haven't really thought about it before, and like, holdly, cow,
now we have to decide or do we Another argument
against is that you take away the child's right to choose.
There are there is a procedure called an epipasm, which
there's actually a surgical procedure, which is kind of a
(28:52):
skin graft. It is not always desirable. Sometimes you get
a different color, a different texture because this is someone
else's foreskin or else it's skin from elsewhere on your body.
It's probably from your body, I would say. And then
there's also like a non there's non surgical things you
can do too, right, Chuck, to to create a foreskin,
(29:14):
to recreate it. Yes, Josh, there are non surgical ways.
And I have never heard of this at all. I
hadn't either until I read this article. Over time, and
we're not recommending that you try this at home, by
the way, this is this is something you really need
to know a lot about. Over time, though, you can
apparently stretch your foreskin using weights and straps and it
(29:36):
will eventually stretch to where it could cover your glands.
That's what they say. There's another method that has involves
inflating little balloons under your skin, under your penile skin
prompt new skin cell growth. I guess, to fill in
the void, I guess. And then when you deflate the balloons,
You've got all that extra skin, right, and you go
(29:57):
to So that's an epipath. So yeah, the point is
one of the arguments against circumcisions that you take away
a kid's right to choose. And if you kid turns
like eighteen twenty one, thirty five fifty and goes, I
really want a foreskin, basically he doesn't have a lot
of options available to him balloons and weights and straps
(30:18):
and skin graphs and skin graphs. Yeah, so that's another reason.
What are some more reasons, Chuckers, Well, like we said
in the foreskin, there's a lot of sensitive areas for
sexual stimulation and that once you lose that, it's gone. Yeah,
so theoretically you're cutting down on the man's pleasure. Sinners
somewhat sure, and he wants to do that to your kid. Puritans,
(30:42):
I don't know, they say, you know, like psychologists might
say that a child might remember this somehow, resulting in
lingering psychological repercussions. It's very Freudian sentence. Some people think
it's better looking to have the foreskin and prettier that way. Yeah,
I I would like to conduct a Paul. I don't
know how we could do this conceivably, but I would
(31:04):
like to I know, not and not and not get
in trouble, right, But I am curious, like where, like
which one is considered more attractive? I have no idea. Yeah,
so I'm I'm I'm very curious. Yeah, you know, like,
is it like do people think people who like foreskin
think those people are weird or vice versa, or I'm
(31:26):
very curious. This is all just I'm curious. Yeah, you've
been even fascinated by this whole thing, Huh. I have
from paid zero. Uh. And there are a couple more
reasons some men subconsciously might not feel complete, and then
the big reason you're born with it, So that might
mean that you should keep it on your body. Yeah, Like,
if we didn't need it, why would we have it?
(31:47):
Wouldn't it have whether you whether you believe in creationism
or evolution, there's that. Both of those kind of touch
upon that. Yeah, we wouldn't have it if we didn't
need it, it didn't serve some purpose. Did you already
cover the language part? I think you'd mentioned that right
a little bit. If you are talking to somebody who
(32:07):
is in the anti circumcision camp, you don't want to
use the term uncircumcised because it implies that there is
something wrong, that there's something missing, right, something hasn't been
done yet. That's not the norm, right, And so they
the people in the anti circumcision camp tend to prefer
(32:28):
terms like natural, uncut, full length, intact, intact. Yeah, yeah,
we'd be remiss, Josh, you did mention female general mutilation.
This is a big problem around the world. Between one
hundred and one hundred and forty million women have been
victims of this. A lot of times. There are I'm
(32:50):
sorry all the time. There's no medical reason for doing this, right,
Like they will remove the clitterists sometimes. Yeah, this actually
was kind of It came about in the West too.
It's still a huge problem in Africa. Apparently ninety two
million girls under the age of ten have undergone female
(33:11):
genital mutilation. And that's just Africa alone. But in the
West it was popular. I had no idea. But here
in the West, in the United States, really until nineteen
seventy seven, Blue Cross covered it. That's female. They covered clitterectomy,
clitter clittery, glitteridectomy, that's awful, glitteridectomy, which is the partial
(33:37):
total removal of the clitteris right. And this this fad
of circumcision came about at about the same time in
the nineteenth century and for the same reasons as male circumcision,
which has yet another argument against male circumcision, because we've
come to see female circumcision as barbaric, even though they
(33:58):
were both brought up for the same reason, which was
it's cleaner, it's more hygienic, it's it's healthier. And also
with girls, they had the added bonus of its reduces
their sexual pleasure from masturbation. Therefore it will it's much
more morally hygienic as well. This is one of the
reasons why it's become or come to be seen as barbaric,
(34:21):
because it actually does reduce tremendously the sensitivity a woman
can experience in sex. Right, There's a lot of other
problems with it too. There's a little procedure called infabulation
that basically is you cut the inner outer labia so
that it grows back to narrow or close the vagina.
(34:46):
And what's the idea here are they is it a
moral thing where they're trying to prevent their daughters from
being tempted to have sex or having sex. Yes, because
to to get this reversed, you to have children, to
have sex, to conceive, to do all these things basically
have to have the procedure reversed. Wow. And then in
some cultures that promote this, after childbirth, after the reproductive years,
(35:08):
it's closed up again. So not only are you undergoing
it this first time, you're having a reverse and then
you're having it done again. So it is a huge
problem and it is viewed as barbaric in the West,
and the World Health organizations come out starting in nineteen
ninety seven against this, and then I guess over the
ensuing decades really lobbied the rest of the UN and
(35:30):
got much wider support. In February two thousand and eight,
pretty much the entire UN issued this statement saying like
this has to stop. This is really bad. But it
still continues. It happens in the US, it happens in
Great Britain, and a lot of the minority African populations
that immigrate here immigrate here. It's a problem. Yeah, Well,
(35:52):
thank god for the WHO. In groups like UNICEF and
other human rights groups, we're trying to get the word
out on that too, right, But Chuck, we just urarrived.
I did a really kind of a hinky place. Like,
everybody agrees this is barbaric. One of the reasons why
is because it serves absolutely no medical reason whatsoever. No,
there's no medical purpose to it, right, It's all just
(36:14):
basically chastity. Right, So we all agree that that's barbaric.
If there's really no medical reason for male circumcision, isn't
the same thing? Is it barbaric? Yeah? Well, people against
it sure say it is, people like Scofield. Yeah, And
I'm not here to make a judgment either way because
I don't have a sun at this point. But maybe
(36:37):
that day will come when I'm gonna have to make
that decision, and hopefully we put out at least some
facts and figures on both sides that point some stats. Yeah,
it's tricky. Well, if you want to know more about circumcision,
and you want to see probably more illustrations of the
male reproductive organ than any other article on the site,
including cut here, do cut along the ditted line dots.
(37:03):
You can type circumcision into the search bar at how
stuff works dot com and that will bring all that
stuff up. It's an interesting article, right, yes, sir, since
I said handy, search bar, well, I said search bar
at least right, Yeah, it's time for a listener mail. Yes, Josh,
I thought this might be appropriate. You asked for stories
about people who had their fingers cut off, and what
(37:25):
podcast was at one of them? Yes, one of the
podcasts one of the things we did. And so we
got a bunch of stories of people who have lost fingers,
and I picked out three fairly short ones to read.
The first one comes from Melanie from Minnesota. She did
not lose a finger, but her husband's uncle did. He's
doing some woodworking in his garage solid his thumb, index finger,
(37:48):
and part of his middle finger clean off while his
wife rushed him to the hospital. They were able to
reattach the thumb, but not his index finger. They were
never able to find the rest of his ring finger,
and they suspect that the dog ate it. Now he
now has a prosthetic index finger, which he likes to
remove and toss to people just to freak them out.
He was a musician before the accident. He's still able
(38:09):
to play the piano with his faux finger, wow, which
is pretty cool. And he has a winter and summer version.
One is tan and one isn't no way Way. Well,
this next one is from Abby from Hamden, Connecticut. Guys,
I thought you might find this interesting. I am, in
fact missing two fingers, but I still have five fingers
on each hand. Awesome, Awesome, This one may win the prize.
(38:32):
The same is true for my mother and her grandmother.
We all have a slight genetic disorder called polydactylism m HM,
which is when you're born with extra pinkies. The extra
fingers were all cut off at birth because the bones
in them were not fully formed. So now we all
have little bumps on the sides of our hands that
were once pinkies. That's circumcision of fingers. It is I
(38:53):
kind of wish I had kept the little extra fingers
and that they were fully functional, because I would use
him to play impossible pieces of music. I told my
bio teacher about polydactylism in high school. She got very
excited and gave me extra credit. She gave her extra
credit for missing those fingers it's pretty cool. Or she
gave her extra credit for being born with two extra fingers,
or being brave enough to admit it in a classroom
(39:15):
sending yeah, all right. And this last one is from
James from Ohio, guys. I have a missing finger story
you might find disturbing or fascinating. In high school, my
shot class teacher always had these crazy stories about his
work in the industry field. In the industry field, and
it's a pretty wide field, And one day he had
a story to tell us about a man who was
unfortunate enough to lose some fingers. The story starts when
(39:38):
my shop teacher worked at a metal sheet shaping factory.
I bet you it was a lot of fingers in
one of those places. Sure, they make impossible curves on
metal that couldn't normally exist. Fellow worker decided to pull
an all nighter and attempt to work machinery with coherency. Unfortunately,
the fingers of the worker were caught in the metal
working machine, pinched off, not cut, pinched off. My teacher
(40:03):
explained that it took about a half an hour to
find all the missing fingers and keep them cool and
a fridge until they were able to reattach them. It's
like the Machinist Christian vale Man. That movie was messed up,
Yes it was, so we got a lot more stories
and a lot. We're very detailed and more gruesome, so
we went with these because it were short and a
little lighter. Him interest you for that. That's very good.
(40:27):
That's all I got. If you have an email that
has absolutely nothing to do with that, we want to
hear about it. You should wrap it up, send it
to us, spank it on the bottom, and send it
to stuff podcast at HowStuffWorks dot com. For more on
this and thousands of other topics, is it HowStuffWorks dot com.
(40:49):
To learn more about the podcast, click on the podcast
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Brought to you by the Reinvented twenty twelve Camra. It's ready.
Are you welcome to stuff you should know from HowStuffWorks
dot Com? Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Joshua
m clark. With me is Charles W. Bryant that makes
(00:21):
this stuff. You should nizzo and that's that. Hi. Hey,
josh m Clark, Joshua, Joshua m clark. Yes, you don't
have a fancy setup today, I have an intro. Okay,
let's hear it. Okay, Wow, Chuck, you really kind of
get up against the wall, aren't you today? Are you
(00:43):
waiting on me a little bit? Okay? Are you ready?
I'm ready, Chuck. Josh Have you ever heard of Lloyd Schofield?
I have not? Yes, you have? You always do this?
Who is he? Uh? He is a guy out in
San Francisco who has proposed, Yes, next Novembers, I guess,
(01:03):
referendum elections. It wouldn't even be midterm. What do you
call the elections between midterm and you know, the big
one quarter term? I don't know. Okay, we'll call it that.
For next November's ballot in San Francisco, there may be
a referendum if Floyd Schofield has anything to do with
it that outright bans male circumcision in San Francisco. Well, yeah, obviously,
(01:24):
but you got to start somewhere. Yeah, Schofield needs seventy
one hundred signatures. Huh and basically read the read the provision, Chuck,
the wording of the proposed referendum, it would make it
a misdemeanor to circumcise, xcise, cut, or mutilate the genitals
of a person under eighteen, right, and he he says
(01:47):
it's genital mutilation. That's how he feels, and other people
feel that way too. Yeah, he's definitely not on his
own in that one. There's some people in this CBS
AP article they're like, it's a little too far. It
should be the choice of the parents, Schofield's idea, And
it's kind of it kind of appears in this in
the wording of the ballot measure that it's a parent's choice,
(02:11):
but it's not the choice of most people who are circumcised,
because they're generally circumcised as newborn infants. Yeah, little boys are.
And he likened it to tattooing because you're not allowed
to tattoo a child. When did you start saying tattooed
like that? What do you mean? Tattoo? Is that weird? Yeah,
it's a little weird. It's like humans. Well that's what
(02:33):
he says. He said that, you know, to felony, to
tatoo a kid. So he's really laughing in there, Yeah,
to tattoo a child. And so he says it's the
same thing. Well, yeah, he's actually saying it's way way
worse than tattooing exactly. But he is saying it's a
long the same lines as a choice by the parents
that is possibly against the child's will later on. And
(02:56):
that's that. So let's talk about circumcision, because this is
a little that's an odd approach to me, you know,
like the way I've always understood it is, you know,
there's circumcision out there. It's not weird, it's not odd.
But as you kind of get older, you realize that there's,
you know, two sides to this whole story, and it
(03:17):
kind of is actually and you kind of come to realize,
like there's people out there who think that people who
aren't circumcised or weird, and people out there who think
that people who are circumcised? Are weird? Right? Exactly? Let's
do some stats, stat man, Well, I think the first
stat we should open with, perhaps, is that if you
are an American boy or a man in the last
(03:41):
thirty years, then there's about a three and five chance
that you are circumcised here in this country over the
past three decades, although that is falling big time. Yeah,
what was the three and five chance now in two
thousand and five. Between nineteen eighty and I think two thousand,
it was three and five, right, Yeah, and then by
(04:02):
two thousand and five it had dropped to about fifty
three percent. Yeah, and the Schofield says that in two
thousand and nine it fell to thirty three percent. That's
a huge job. So in a decade it fell thirty percent.
And they actually think one of the reasons why is
because there's been an increasing presence of Hispanics in the US,
(04:24):
and Hispanics are much much less likely than any other
group to circumcise their male infants. And it's also lower
out west than where there's a larger Hispanic population. Yeah,
in the Midwest, there's about a seventy five percent chance
that you are going to circumcise your boy. Yeah, in
the South, there's half yeah, fifty to fifty, right, it's
(04:46):
like Russian Roulette with a two barreled, two chamber gun. Yeah, yeah, sure.
And then out west, Yeah, it's less than a quarter
of the male infants are circumcised out there every year.
But ultimately there's about one point two million circumcisions. Well
there were in two thousand and five. Yes, so now
(05:07):
we're down to less than that. But in two thousand
and five, they're about one point two million male boys
born in the United States who were circumcised, right, yeah,
And since you mentioned that, that at about two hundred
dollars a pop, even though it's included in your in
your berthen bill, it's about two hundred and forty million
dollars that insurance companies would love to not have to
(05:28):
pay exactly. So there's actually, I don't know if it's
overt support or maybe quiet financial support or whatever, but
the insurance companies are very happy to side with the
anti circumcision movement and medicaid. Yes, of course, So Chuck,
let's talk about the penis. Let's talk about the foreskin.
(05:48):
That's part of it. We're gonna say the word penis
a whole lot ycause you can't avoid it when you're
talking about circumcision. That's right, because let's just go ahead
and set up for our foreign friends who may not
know what circumcisi is. Like Roller Derby circumcision is when
the foreskin of the penis that's also called the prepuse,
is removed. Simple as that. So you got the prepuse
(06:13):
which is the foreskin. Yes, it covers the tip of
the penis, which is also called the glands g L
A N s. Right. And then there's a piece of
connective tissue that works much like the connective tissue that
anchors the bottom of your tongue to the floor of
your mouth. Yes, call a frenulum, and that keeps the
prepuse connected to the glands. Yeah. And they also said
(06:35):
the inner portion of the foreskin is also much like
the inside of your mouth in that it has a
natural moisture to lubricate the glands. It's hot and moist
in there, that's what it says. Yes, Yeah, it provides
lubrication which kind of keeps it safe and sheathed, I
guess right, yeah, from abrasion. And like they mantled, cold
(06:59):
and the dry winter air can be rough on a glands. Yeah,
and they this was a Tom Sheeve article. In my
hat is off to him for this one. Yes, Tom
did a great job with us. I liked your first response,
Thank you, Chuck. It also contains the prep use, also
contains some nerve cells, did net bundles blood special blood cells.
(07:22):
I had no idea, just it makes the penis that
much more sensitive. And the fact that it's it produces
movement aids in stimulation and lubrication. So there's a lot
of people who are happy with their prep use or
foreskin and are very glad that they are uncut. As
the anti circumcision groups would call it right, right or
(07:45):
natural is another one that's right. And since we're talking
about the foreskin, it's not the same on all dudes.
It's like every human body part. It varies from person
to person. And some men actually are sort of naturally
circumcised because they're born with very little foreskin, or they
have foreskins that actually retract during puberty. They go exactly
(08:09):
where maybe said trombone, and they do serve a protective purpose,
but they can also and for people that are on
both sides, we're going to present both sides of the
arguments that don't say, you guys are just talking about
this one side. We're gonna talk about both sides, sure,
of course. But some one camp believes that it can
cause some problems. Well it can. I think everybody agrees
(08:31):
on these, like these are the very rare problems that
can come about it. And we should say that it's
rare though, because one of the big problems that the
anti circumcision folks have is that these are overstated. Like
when you say it can it's easier to get dirty,
and bacteria can build up and all these things can happen.
(08:52):
That is true, but it's not like if you skip
a shower, this is gonna happen. Well, let's talk about this,
because okay, there are some some problems that can arise
just from having an or normal foreskin. One of those
problems because it is like the inside of your mouth
and there warm moist. Gotta keep it clean. You do
have to keep it clean, and if you don't, a
(09:14):
white build up, a white soapy build up, soapy soupy.
This says cheesy in the article cheesy. That's right. A white,
cheesy build up called smegmum can develop and once you
start developing a white, cheesy build up called smegmum within
your foreskin, you want to take a really hard, long
(09:34):
look at your grooming habits. Yeah, did you say smegmum? Smegma? Okay,
Smegmum's maybe the plural. No, I want to make sure
you were saying it right, megma, because the last thing
I want is listener mail on the pronunciation of smegma.
We get all these voice files. Although I've always said shmegma,
but I think smegma. Yeah, maybe I've just said shmegma
(09:56):
for humor sake. Maybe all right, that was around the
time Wayne's what was out, wasn't it properly? So that's
just one that's probably a pretty minor thing. I'm sure
that's easily corrected. Your foreskin, though, can also be well.
It can develop two ways, too tight or too loose right,
(10:17):
and each other problems. Too tight it can cause a
condition known as fimosis. It's like trying to put on
a sweater that's way too small for you. It's a
good way look at it, and that is a medical
that's the main medical determinant for whether or not you
should get a circumcision. Like the main medical reason would
be fimosis. I think that's probably because it's the most frequent.
(10:39):
It's probably the most frequent problem you think. I think, Okay,
if it's too loose, then it's going to be called paraphimosis.
And that's like wearing your dad's sweater. Yes, And it
can cause swelling of the glands in the foreskin. And
there's also something called balan posthesis, which is swelling of
the mucous surfaces of the foreskin, and that can lead
(11:02):
to skin disease, problems with the urethra, pain, all sorts
of things that you don't want to end this in general,
like why, God, why, I would imagine so you can
have your frenulum attached too tightly, that's the frenulum brevy
where it's just like that's like trying to poke your
head through that very very tight sweater. That's a good
(11:24):
way to look at it as well, Thank you, Chuck,
very evocative, Josh. And circumcision can help correct all of
these problems, but it is rarely medically necessary to get circumcised, right,
And like we said, these problems do exist, they are
serious problems. It's at the very least uncomfortable if not,
you know, downright dangerous. Sure, and I think both sides
(11:46):
agree that there are circumstances such as these that do
warrant circumcision. The problem is most circumcision. I'm sure the
vast majority of circumcisions are customary, cultural preventative, right, yeah,
sociological in nature. Let's talk about the origins of circumcision.
(12:08):
When did humans get the idea to cut the foreskin
off of the boys penises? Well? Did it start with
the Bible? This is where tom started. But no, it
didn't start with the egypt As far back as we
can find the Egyptians, we're doing. Okay, that's what we understand. Okay,
Well you want to talk about that, Well, let's talk
about the Bible first, because in the Book of Genesis
(12:29):
God made a covenant with Abraham, and as we all know,
Abraham was a Jewish patriarch and his descendants, Abraham was
the patriarch of the houses of the Jews and the Muslims. Dude, really, yes, Isaac,
his son went on to found the Jews, Well, went
on to found Judaism. He's the father of Judaism. Ishmael
(12:51):
the other son, illegitimate son, right, but he went on
to found Islam. Yes and Isaac. They said, basically, God's
gonna bless Jews with riches and success all the you know,
the land will be fruitful if you get circumcised by
your eighth day, Yes of life. And not just you,
(13:12):
but your sons. Yeah, any servants that you captured, any
sons that those captured servants has. All boys have to
be circumcised. And this has led to the fact that
today ninety eight percent of Jewish Men are in fact circumcised. Right.
And according to biblical tradition, Ishmael was circumcised before he
(13:35):
was basically run off from Abraham's family, right, And so
that kind of formed the basis of the Muslim tradition
of circumcision, which continues today. If you look at Muslim texts,
the Qur'an, apparently it doesn't have any endorsement or mention
of precision, but most Muslims today still do circumcise because
(13:57):
Muhammad apparently was circumcised. So I guess it's a reverence
for their prophet. Yes, and today about two thirds of
every circumcised men on the planet are Muslim. So nine
percent of Jewish Men, yeah, and two thirds of muslim
in circumcised. Well, no, no, thirds of all men on
the planet are Muslim, exactly. That's a tough one, exactly.
(14:22):
It's kind of an odd qualifier. Christian sects don't really
endorse one way or the other. They say, like, you know,
decide amongst your selves and Buddhism and Hinduism, they don't
really have a stance one way or the other. Is
that right? That's right? And we talked about the Egyptians
probably being the earliest group as far as Western culture
is concerned. Like with most things, the Egyptians came up
(14:47):
with this idea, yeah, not necessarily independently, or if it
did independently, they weren't the only ones, but they apparently
were the ones who exposed the early Israelites, the early
Jews too, this concept, right. Yeah. And then at about
the same time, possibly even before other groups, the Mayans
(15:07):
and the Aztecs, Yeah, were both circumcising their boys indigenous Australians,
African Asian and other American tribes, right. Yeah. And Georgians, Yeah,
what is that that? I've never heard of them? The
coal Colchians, Yeah, I hadn't heard of them either, But
(15:27):
as described them, so there were ancient people that is
now modern day Georgia and they were into it. Yeah,
well they practiced it and then so here in the West,
I guess it was strictly religious until about the nineteenth century, right,
and then all of a sudden, medicine is like, we
can do that. Well yeah, but that's also around the
same time that they were doing all sorts of things
(15:50):
saying that this could solve this and this, like we
can treat VD and we can cure homosexuality with circumcision,
and impotence was another one. Yeah, So they were a
little bit off base, I would say there, as in
way off base, I would think, so, yeah, but it
did it did have a lasting impression. The circumcision did
become associated with the medical establishment here in the West,
(16:14):
and that I think that's translated elsewhere. In the Jewish
faith a mohel mohole mole. Okay, they still perform bris
briss briss i brisom I. Just the only thing I
know about that is from Seinfeld when Jerry was supposed
(16:34):
to perform the snap. They they they may still perform
these procedures in the Arab world, in the Muslim world,
that's it's generally done in the medical realm, right, and
then that's actually that was taken away from barbers in
(16:56):
ancient Turkey, and yeah, in Turkey, in the Middle East,
the Middle Ages, barbers used to do amputations, blood lettings, sure,
and circumcisions. Blood lettings like give you a nice leading
and you'll be feeling better, get all the toxins out
of your blood. Let's talk about it around the globe,
like how how it actually goes down like today? Yeah,
(17:19):
Like the Jews still still do it traditionally before the
eighth Day. They kind of stick to that, and Egypt
it's anywhere from birth to about eight years old, and
in Malaysia it's in other places it's like a rite
of passage like at early adolescens. Yeah, some and some
Muslim cultures, once a boy can recite the Quran right once,
(17:43):
like all the way through, right, right, I mean think
about that, then think about it if you don't want
to get circumcised, you like, I remember, once a boy
can do that, that's associated with the time when he'll
be circumcised after that. And you didn't see there's some
really sad cute pictures in this article. Oh yeah, there's
a little boy who's clutching his genitalia under his hospital
(18:07):
gown and crying because he's like second in line to
be circumcised. There's a kid who's being circumcised on page zero.
It's sad stuff. I'm glad I don't print the pictures out. Yeah,
I don't want to see that. In Africa, Josh, it
is also in a lot of tribes a coming of
age type of thing. And here's the deal. In Africa,
though sometimes there's not in these remote areas a trained
(18:30):
professional with all the right equipment, and they do it anyway.
And because of this, there's like a thirty five percent
increased risk of complications, six percent severe complications that possibly
result in partial or full amputation of the penis. Yeah,
but sometimes a traveling circumciser will roll through town in
(18:52):
his ice cream truck and everybody comes out and with
boys of all ages because they know the safe, real
doctor with the real clean equipment is there, and so
they'll bring out boys of all ages to get circumcised
when he rolls through. Yes, which it's a good thing
that happens. Asia, it's extremely rare unless they have thriving
(19:13):
Muslim populations. But in Asia, among Asian cultures, it's pretty uncommon,
except Chuck. In South Korea and the Philippines, circumcision is
pretty common. Who knew the American serviceman knew? Yeah? Is
that the reason why? In Korea? Yes, and the Philippines.
American servicemen stationed there in the ladder half beginning in
(19:34):
the latter half of the twentieth century apparently got the
word leaked out that they were missing their prepuce, and
South Korean's and Filipinos started following suit. Alrighty, well, that's
circumcision around the globe today. If we forgot your country,
then we apologize. Please rite in. Shall we talk about
(19:55):
the procedure itself? Yeah, as Tom put it. Next up,
the big show is that he said, I didn't see
that part. There's some did you So you didn't see
the pictures? I had the illustrations like step by step illustration. Yeah,
I didn't eat it. You had dotted lines like where
you clip out a coupon. They have these. I have
a pretty get idea what's going on down there, So
(20:16):
I didn't. I was just fine with the words. Uh
so what happens Josh is uh a baby? If it's
a baby in infant circumcision. Then they strap the baby
down of course arms and legs, which it just seems
like an awful thing. It's a bad start when you
read it. They give a either a topical anesthetic, uh
you know, rubbed around the area or injected around the
(20:40):
base of the penis to numb the area. There are
a few different devices that the person performing the procedure
can choose from, and I know you know a little
bit about these, I do. Let's hear it. There's like
three things. Well, there's the Gomco clamp, the Mgan clamp,
and the plastic bell device. Right, yeah, so I did.
I didn't really look into the Mogan clamp because it
(21:03):
just too wow. But the Gomco clamp has been around
for a while and that sounds like something you would
see on a late night TV ad. You can actually
buy them on the internet for the two hundred and
thirty bucks. Yeah, search gomcoke clamp. It comes up, and
do not do not buy one and do this at home.
That is in no way an endorsement a coat clamp.
(21:26):
Do any just stop stop right now there. The Gomco
clamp involves a bell with a an arm and appendage
that comes off the tip of the bell, put that in,
pull the foreskin up around the bell. So what you're
doing is you're inserting this metal layer between the glands
and the foreskin. Yeah, like all these things, you're separating
(21:47):
the foreskin from the glands exactly. That's pretty much the
key to circumcision. Sure, you pull it up around, you
slide it through this hole. It has an arm attached
to the top of the bell's holding everything taut, and
then you cut around it and remove the foreskin. The
plastic bell device is similar. It doesn't have the arm
(22:08):
and the clamp holding everything, but basically you're just you're
putting a bell in between the glands and the foreskin,
and then you basically tie off the suture around the
foreskin that's been pulled up right, and then you cut
that and then eventually, after like a few days, the
bell falls off and you're fine, supposedly well, And that's
(22:31):
about the recovery period period if you're an infant is
about three to four days. Plan on having a grumpy
little baby boy for those next few days, and plan
on keeping the area really really clean and maybe you
might even have to bandage it, and just you got
to make sure that you keep it separate from diaper
(22:53):
poo poo, because you don't want a fresh surgery being
around fecal matter not a good thing. No, you're you're
looking at a pretty hefty, little horrible infection there too.
And it takes about thirty minutes. Yeah, if you're an adult,
you don't necessarily need to use any of these other
bells or whistles literally bells. But you can just pull
(23:14):
the foreskin forward, make a couple of incisions, cut off
the frenulum, stitch back. Basically you're stitching this hanging loose
skin to the just to the corona, which is the
strip just below the glands. Yeah, and bamm bada bing
no sex for a couple of weeks, which no one
should have to tell you that, but we're telling you that. Yeah,
(23:36):
that would be common sense. If you ask me, then
it's done. So why are people doing this, Chuck? I mean,
think about that, especially as an adult. Why are people
circumcising both their themselves and their infant sons. Why is
it like all the rage? So this is the argument for,
and we will cover the argument against before you get
upset by Chuck Bryant. Mister Schofield. The reason some of
(23:59):
the reasons, Josh are are obviously, like we said, you're
raised in a religion or a culture where that's the
thing you do, then you would probably do that, right.
Some fathers think that their son's penis should kind of
be like theirs, and they're a little matter fact, nine
tenths of circumcised men opt to have their sons circumcised,
(24:21):
and about three quarters of uncircumcised men opt to have
their sons not circumcised. Yeah, it's about fifteen percent. Main natural. Interesting, Uh,
some parents want their sons to just be like the
rest of the little boys. If and if you live
in the United States and most boys are like that,
they don't want you to stand out in the locker
room and potentially be teased that kind of thing. This
(24:45):
one uncircumcised men or twice as likely to contract HPV
and pass that along here. And apparently circumcision also helps
prevent or protect against chlamytee and syphilis, they say, and
this is from the Journal of American Medical Association. We
should say we should same goes with a study that
(25:07):
found recently that areas that don't circumcise or where circumcision
is uncommon tend to have higher prevalences of HIV. I
don't know if those two are causal, like HIV is
more easily contracted because there's this maybe the blood vessels
(25:29):
are closer to the surface right when the foreskin is attached, yeah,
or if it's just correlated, like maybe they have maybe
these areas have lesser health care right, right, or less
adequate healthcare. Well, at any rate, they put that number
at sixty percent less likely. But it's only it's not
for male to male sex. It's only female to male
(25:51):
transmission right of HIV is what it says. You go.
I know some people think it's cleaner, but that's completely
unsupported from what I can tell medically. Right, that's just
a perception, if I'm not mistaken. And then there are
some who just think it's prettier, yeah, better looking, sleeker,
(26:15):
All right, Josh, that's the case for generally. Let's talk
about people who are against this, like mister Schofield, what
are their arguments. Well, I get the impression that there's
a lot of people who well, the people who are
against it are vehemently against it. One of the biggest
arguments is that it's mutilation. Yeah, general mutilation. It is
genital mutilation. Female circumcision, which we'll talk a little bit
(26:37):
more about in a minute, is basically considered now in
the Western world, the developed world, female genital mutilation, right,
not female circumcision any longer. And the one of the
big points among anti circumcision people is that this is
the same thing with ment. It's just for some reason
more accepted in the West than email circumcision is. Yeah,
(27:01):
but if you're against it, you probably think it's old
fashion and unnecessary. Unnecessary is a big one. Yeah. The
American Academy of Pediatrics considered this in nineteen ninety nine
and said, you know what, we're not going to endorse this.
We're not going to come out against it, but we've
looked at all of the information. We see no medical
reason to do this, and we're not going to endorse it.
So that's that's a big one that the anti circumcision
(27:25):
lobby sites. Oh yeah, when I read that that they
didn't endorse it, or they said that you shouldn't do it.
This is such a tender subject. That kind of got
the impression they were a little bit like, I ain't
going there. Why don't you just decide? Right, Like, we
don't have a lot of data either way, so we're
not going to say. I get the impression that it's
a lot like the natural birth movement. There's a lot
(27:46):
of probably similar sentiment, maybe a lot of crossover actually
between the two. Josh, there are risks of scarring, their
risks of infection. Yeah, this is a big one right here.
It can go wrong. Yeah, and it does like you
can have your penis lopped off because of a bad circumcision. Yeah,
that's a pretty good reason not to do it. I
don't think it's super common. It's very uncommon. Yeah, but
(28:09):
when you're talking about your your maybe you're only male son,
it can only be a male son, but your only son.
Do you want to take that kind of risk? I
don't know yet. Well, yeah, sure, I don't know. Stop
pressuring me. No, I'm not pressuring you. I was just
I'm not asking you. I'm just asking theoretically. But I
think that's probably the sentiment among a lot of like
(28:30):
first time parents, you know, like should we do this?
I haven't really thought about it before, and like, holdly, cow,
now we have to decide or do we Another argument
against is that you take away the child's right to choose.
There are there is a procedure called an epipasm, which
there's actually a surgical procedure, which is kind of a
(28:52):
skin graft. It is not always desirable. Sometimes you get
a different color, a different texture because this is someone
else's foreskin or else it's skin from elsewhere on your body.
It's probably from your body, I would say. And then
there's also like a non there's non surgical things you
can do too, right, Chuck, to to create a foreskin,
(29:14):
to recreate it. Yes, Josh, there are non surgical ways.
And I have never heard of this at all. I
hadn't either until I read this article. Over time, and
we're not recommending that you try this at home, by
the way, this is this is something you really need
to know a lot about. Over time, though, you can
apparently stretch your foreskin using weights and straps and it
(29:36):
will eventually stretch to where it could cover your glands.
That's what they say. There's another method that has involves
inflating little balloons under your skin, under your penile skin
prompt new skin cell growth. I guess, to fill in
the void, I guess. And then when you deflate the balloons,
You've got all that extra skin, right, and you go
(29:57):
to So that's an epipath. So yeah, the point is
one of the arguments against circumcisions that you take away
a kid's right to choose. And if you kid turns
like eighteen twenty one, thirty five fifty and goes, I
really want a foreskin, basically he doesn't have a lot
of options available to him balloons and weights and straps
(30:18):
and skin graphs and skin graphs. Yeah, so that's another reason.
What are some more reasons, Chuckers, Well, like we said
in the foreskin, there's a lot of sensitive areas for
sexual stimulation and that once you lose that, it's gone. Yeah,
so theoretically you're cutting down on the man's pleasure. Sinners
somewhat sure, and he wants to do that to your kid. Puritans,
(30:42):
I don't know, they say, you know, like psychologists might
say that a child might remember this somehow, resulting in
lingering psychological repercussions. It's very Freudian sentence. Some people think
it's better looking to have the foreskin and prettier that way. Yeah,
I I would like to conduct a Paul. I don't
know how we could do this conceivably, but I would
(31:04):
like to I know, not and not and not get
in trouble, right, But I am curious, like where, like
which one is considered more attractive? I have no idea. Yeah,
so I'm I'm I'm very curious. Yeah, you know, like,
is it like do people think people who like foreskin
think those people are weird or vice versa, or I'm
(31:26):
very curious. This is all just I'm curious. Yeah, you've
been even fascinated by this whole thing, Huh. I have
from paid zero. Uh. And there are a couple more
reasons some men subconsciously might not feel complete, and then
the big reason you're born with it, So that might
mean that you should keep it on your body. Yeah, Like,
if we didn't need it, why would we have it?
(31:47):
Wouldn't it have whether you whether you believe in creationism
or evolution, there's that. Both of those kind of touch
upon that. Yeah, we wouldn't have it if we didn't
need it, it didn't serve some purpose. Did you already
cover the language part? I think you'd mentioned that right
a little bit. If you are talking to somebody who
(32:07):
is in the anti circumcision camp, you don't want to
use the term uncircumcised because it implies that there is
something wrong, that there's something missing, right, something hasn't been
done yet. That's not the norm, right, And so they
the people in the anti circumcision camp tend to prefer
(32:28):
terms like natural, uncut, full length, intact, intact. Yeah, yeah,
we'd be remiss, Josh, you did mention female general mutilation.
This is a big problem around the world. Between one
hundred and one hundred and forty million women have been
victims of this. A lot of times. There are I'm
(32:50):
sorry all the time. There's no medical reason for doing this, right,
Like they will remove the clitterists sometimes. Yeah, this actually
was kind of It came about in the West too.
It's still a huge problem in Africa. Apparently ninety two
million girls under the age of ten have undergone female
(33:11):
genital mutilation. And that's just Africa alone. But in the
West it was popular. I had no idea. But here
in the West, in the United States, really until nineteen
seventy seven, Blue Cross covered it. That's female. They covered clitterectomy,
clitter clittery, glitteridectomy, that's awful, glitteridectomy, which is the partial
(33:37):
total removal of the clitteris right. And this this fad
of circumcision came about at about the same time in
the nineteenth century and for the same reasons as male circumcision,
which has yet another argument against male circumcision, because we've
come to see female circumcision as barbaric, even though they
(33:58):
were both brought up for the same reason, which was
it's cleaner, it's more hygienic, it's it's healthier. And also
with girls, they had the added bonus of its reduces
their sexual pleasure from masturbation. Therefore it will it's much
more morally hygienic as well. This is one of the
reasons why it's become or come to be seen as barbaric,
(34:21):
because it actually does reduce tremendously the sensitivity a woman
can experience in sex. Right, There's a lot of other
problems with it too. There's a little procedure called infabulation
that basically is you cut the inner outer labia so
that it grows back to narrow or close the vagina.
(34:46):
And what's the idea here are they is it a
moral thing where they're trying to prevent their daughters from
being tempted to have sex or having sex. Yes, because
to to get this reversed, you to have children, to
have sex, to conceive, to do all these things basically
have to have the procedure reversed. Wow. And then in
some cultures that promote this, after childbirth, after the reproductive years,
(35:08):
it's closed up again. So not only are you undergoing
it this first time, you're having a reverse and then
you're having it done again. So it is a huge
problem and it is viewed as barbaric in the West,
and the World Health organizations come out starting in nineteen
ninety seven against this, and then I guess over the
ensuing decades really lobbied the rest of the UN and
(35:30):
got much wider support. In February two thousand and eight,
pretty much the entire UN issued this statement saying like
this has to stop. This is really bad. But it
still continues. It happens in the US, it happens in
Great Britain, and a lot of the minority African populations
that immigrate here immigrate here. It's a problem. Yeah, Well,
(35:52):
thank god for the WHO. In groups like UNICEF and
other human rights groups, we're trying to get the word
out on that too, right, But Chuck, we just urarrived.
I did a really kind of a hinky place. Like,
everybody agrees this is barbaric. One of the reasons why
is because it serves absolutely no medical reason whatsoever. No,
there's no medical purpose to it, right, It's all just
(36:14):
basically chastity. Right, So we all agree that that's barbaric.
If there's really no medical reason for male circumcision, isn't
the same thing? Is it barbaric? Yeah? Well, people against
it sure say it is, people like Scofield. Yeah, And
I'm not here to make a judgment either way because
I don't have a sun at this point. But maybe
(36:37):
that day will come when I'm gonna have to make
that decision, and hopefully we put out at least some
facts and figures on both sides that point some stats. Yeah,
it's tricky. Well, if you want to know more about circumcision,
and you want to see probably more illustrations of the
male reproductive organ than any other article on the site,
including cut here, do cut along the ditted line dots.
(37:03):
You can type circumcision into the search bar at how
stuff works dot com and that will bring all that
stuff up. It's an interesting article, right, yes, sir, since
I said handy, search bar, well, I said search bar
at least right, Yeah, it's time for a listener mail. Yes, Josh,
I thought this might be appropriate. You asked for stories
about people who had their fingers cut off, and what
(37:25):
podcast was at one of them? Yes, one of the
podcasts one of the things we did. And so we
got a bunch of stories of people who have lost fingers,
and I picked out three fairly short ones to read.
The first one comes from Melanie from Minnesota. She did
not lose a finger, but her husband's uncle did. He's
doing some woodworking in his garage solid his thumb, index finger,
(37:48):
and part of his middle finger clean off while his
wife rushed him to the hospital. They were able to
reattach the thumb, but not his index finger. They were
never able to find the rest of his ring finger,
and they suspect that the dog ate it. Now he
now has a prosthetic index finger, which he likes to
remove and toss to people just to freak them out.
He was a musician before the accident. He's still able
(38:09):
to play the piano with his faux finger, wow, which
is pretty cool. And he has a winter and summer version.
One is tan and one isn't no way Way. Well,
this next one is from Abby from Hamden, Connecticut. Guys,
I thought you might find this interesting. I am, in
fact missing two fingers, but I still have five fingers
on each hand. Awesome, Awesome, This one may win the prize.
(38:32):
The same is true for my mother and her grandmother.
We all have a slight genetic disorder called polydactylism m HM,
which is when you're born with extra pinkies. The extra
fingers were all cut off at birth because the bones
in them were not fully formed. So now we all
have little bumps on the sides of our hands that
were once pinkies. That's circumcision of fingers. It is I
(38:53):
kind of wish I had kept the little extra fingers
and that they were fully functional, because I would use
him to play impossible pieces of music. I told my
bio teacher about polydactylism in high school. She got very
excited and gave me extra credit. She gave her extra
credit for missing those fingers it's pretty cool. Or she
gave her extra credit for being born with two extra fingers,
or being brave enough to admit it in a classroom
(39:15):
sending yeah, all right. And this last one is from
James from Ohio, guys. I have a missing finger story
you might find disturbing or fascinating. In high school, my
shot class teacher always had these crazy stories about his
work in the industry field. In the industry field, and
it's a pretty wide field, And one day he had
a story to tell us about a man who was
unfortunate enough to lose some fingers. The story starts when
(39:38):
my shop teacher worked at a metal sheet shaping factory.
I bet you it was a lot of fingers in
one of those places. Sure, they make impossible curves on
metal that couldn't normally exist. Fellow worker decided to pull
an all nighter and attempt to work machinery with coherency. Unfortunately,
the fingers of the worker were caught in the metal
working machine, pinched off, not cut, pinched off. My teacher
(40:03):
explained that it took about a half an hour to
find all the missing fingers and keep them cool and
a fridge until they were able to reattach them. It's
like the Machinist Christian vale Man. That movie was messed up,
Yes it was, so we got a lot more stories
and a lot. We're very detailed and more gruesome, so
we went with these because it were short and a
little lighter. Him interest you for that. That's very good.
(40:27):
That's all I got. If you have an email that
has absolutely nothing to do with that, we want to
hear about it. You should wrap it up, send it
to us, spank it on the bottom, and send it
to stuff podcast at HowStuffWorks dot com. For more on
this and thousands of other topics, is it HowStuffWorks dot com.
(40:49):
To learn more about the podcast, click on the podcast
icon in the upper right corner of our homepage. The
house Stuff Works iPhone app has a arrived. Download it
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