December 30, 2008 • 22 mins
Habeas Corpus is a Latin term meaning "you have the body," and -- in theory -- guarantees an incarcerated person the right to have a court determine whether he or she is imprisoned lawfully. Listen to this podcast from HowStuffWorks to learn more.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know
from House Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, and welcome to
the podcast. Welcome to the Stuff you Should Know. I'm
Josh say Hi, Chuck. Hi. How's it coming? Chuck? Uh? Great?
A little cold, but other than that fun fun, well, Chuck,
(00:23):
you know what it's It's supposed to get really really
cold this January, which is a significant day. You heard
about that in this segway. That's a good one. Thanks.
Is that the inauguration? Yes, it is, and they're expecting
up to maybe four million people and worst case scenario
they're talking is thirty thirty one degrees in raining. Everything
(00:44):
will be icy and frozen, and there's gonna be old,
you know, old people dying left and right, basically children
exactly in peril. Yeah. Um, so it'll probably be the
if that happens, the most the most death fraught inauguration
of all time. And there's been some pretty bloody ones. Really,
I don't know. Okay, no, I'm not sure, but um
(01:07):
I I personally am looking forward to the inauguration. Um because,
as I understand it, Barack Obama. We've heard of him,
president our next president. Yes, um, he is planning on
restoring a part of the constitution that was shaved off
a couple of years ago. Well, thing called habeas corpus. Yes,
(01:28):
you've heard of this, I have. It is a Latin term.
And you said you took Latin in high school. No, No,
I took German? Did you? You just continue to surprise
and amaze me. I seemed like a Spanish guy, don't I.
I would have definitely said Spanish. I wish I had
taken Spanish it with I would be better now for it.
But although you could definitely get yourself a desk job
(01:49):
at how stuff works, Frankfurt? Is there how the works?
Frank okay? I I mentioned to create one for you though,
if you lobbied for it enough. Uh So. Habeas corpus
is Latin and it means, uh, you have the body.
And essentially what it is is that it's a legal
term that that it's kind of in order from a
judge to a jailer saying you have the body, bring
(02:12):
him to me so we can figure out if he's
being in prison legally or not. Right. I've heard this
term a lot I'm glad we're doing this because I
never you know, it's one of those terms that everyone's
probably heard of but doesn't know a lot about. So yeah,
there's a lot to it. Basically, what Habeas corpus does
is we have a set of um guarantees in the
Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Actually, if you really
take a look at the Bill of Rights, you know
(02:34):
the Framer's top ten great protections that that that list,
Um they most of it has to do with being prosecuted, right, um,
you know thinks so in taking all together, it's called
due process. So you have a right to confront your accusers,
you have a right to counsel, speedy trial. Speedy trial
(02:56):
is a big one. Fair trial, fair trial, huge. But
the thing is is, you know, the these things can
be guaranteed to you and I all day long, but
they don't amount to anything if we don't have any
action to take to ensure that they're actually being carried out,
that the the these guarantees are are being delivered on.
And that's what Habeas corpus is. It's it's that mechanism
(03:17):
by which these constitutional protections are you know, guaranteed. That's
a great thanks a lot. Well that's it for today. Um,
if that's all for me, folks, well, don't put this
on me, because there's a lot to come. Do you
want me to carry the corpus part? Okay? So, um,
it's not this is not a new concept. It it
(03:39):
actually dates back before the Framers, uh created the constitution
and ratified in nine goes back to England. Correct, it's
it's English common law in the in the seventeenth century.
If you're a Catholic like I was raised, you would
be in grave danger of being picked up by the
king'sman and throne in jail. Because this is a time
(04:01):
when I believe it was King Henry, one of the kings.
You know, there's just so many of them I can't
keep them straight in Um, he when whoever was king,
had had established the Church of England, and uh, you
know that was the big rival to the Catholic Church.
So he wanted a state sponsored, state run church and
didn't really want any competition. So if you're a Catholic,
(04:23):
you were probably going to be in prison and heldon,
not given a trial or anything like that nod process.
So Parliament came up with this this protection and actually
it made date back further than that. Some people say
that it's it's kind of implied by the Magna Carta,
which was twelve fifteen at running med It's a long
long time ago, it is, um. But it it actually
(04:45):
became codified as habeas corpus in in the seventeenth century England,
and then the framers picked it up and it's in
the constitution. It's a huge right, you know. UM. And
in American practice, if you have habeas corpus, the process
goes like this, you're tried or you're jailed. Even you
(05:05):
can say you're jailed. Most of the time you've already
been tried and now you've been convicted and incarcerated. And
a writ of habeas corpus can actually be a legal
strategy where after all of your appeals run out, you
can use it. You can issue a petition of habeas
corpus and you're saying, hey, judge, you know I don't
think at my trial I was given a fair trial.
(05:27):
Say you know my counselor was inadequate, Um, he was
drunk all the time. That kind of thing, or the
prosecution like hid you know, important evidence that would have
exonerated you you can, you can issue this in a
petition of habeas corpus. Judge considers that if the judge
decides that you know, it raises enough questions about the
(05:47):
legality of your imprisonment, you will well, no, it's not
another trial, it's a hearing and actually no habeas corpus.
It's not a rehash of your actual trial. So it's
not an appeal at all, not really, but it's it
kind of falls in step with the appeal process. It's
so what happened as far as you know, you murdered
(06:09):
somebody or that's what you're accused of. The judge and
the habeas corpus hearing, it doesn't care about that. What
they care about is evidence that shows that you're you know,
your defense attorney was drunk, that kind of thing. Sure,
I get it. And the So these things also tend
to as a legal strategy, tended to come in a flurry.
(06:30):
Would say, like a prosecutor is found to have been,
you know, um, a cocaine user, and it comes out,
so everyone that person prosecuted all of a sudden lines
up there rid of habeas corp They they start sending
out petitions of habeas corporate your corpy. I guess the
petition is first, and then and then if the judge
thinks that it's worth hearing the judge issues are rid
(06:51):
of habeas corpus bring the body to me. Uh and
and that's that's pretty much how it's used. But you
can actually, um, you can contest your in car reseration,
I believe, at any point, but using it as a
as a legal strategy, that's usually how it's used. It's
kind of depressing. I think if I were a prisoner,
just being referred to as the body is I don't know,
(07:12):
that would worry me immediately. Yeah, and corpus sounds a
lot like corpse. Like I said, I didn't take Latin,
but I have a feeling those two are probably connected, right.
I thought you said you did take Latin German German? Really?
Um yeah, I think though being referred to as the body,
I would be much more um, concerned with the fact
that I was in prison. You know, at that point
(07:34):
you're probably already used to being called the body or
the booty or something horrible, and you know, being those
those those names being made good on, right, you have
your prior recent line exactly. Yeah, So check. Um, we
we understand Habeas corpus kind of get an impression of
why it's important. Now, it's it keeps us from being
thrown into jail and the key being thrown away. Right,
(07:57):
it's our one recourse because really think about it, the system,
it is this entity that stands between the state which
has the power to throw you in jail, and the
individual which can be thrown in jail. The whole purpose
of the court system, the legal system, is to find
out whether or not this person should be incarcerated or
punished guilt or innocence. Um. So, the it's kind of insinuated.
(08:22):
It's placed in between the state and the individual, um too,
as a buffer, as a protection as much as it
is you know, the the judge and jury that can
and exec executioner cases. Right. Okay, So so now we
understand how important it is, which kind of gives us
an idea then of how egregious the Military Commission's Act
(08:45):
of two thousand six was. Right. Well, let's back up
a little, because let's do it. This is not the
first time the Military Act of two thousand six, Commissions
Act that Habeas corpus has been revoked. Oh oh, that
was one other thing we should probably say, hunch chuck.
In the Bill of Rights, it actually specifically mentions habeas
corpus it's actually thinking the Constitution. It says the only
(09:08):
time that habeas corpus can be suspended, suspended is in
times of insurrection or rebellion, when it's when it serves
the public safety can be the only time it can
be suspended. Not that he opens it up to some
interpretation obviously, you know what it shouldn't because it's so explicit.
(09:31):
But yes, sadly, over the course of American history has
been interpreted in my in my opinion, incorrectly. So, yeah,
you were saying, you give us some examples. Well, one
example is during the Civil War President Lincoln, Abraham Lincoln
suspended habeas corpus um when the Civil War broke out,
and uh, five years later it was reinstated at the
(09:51):
end of the Civil War and which insurrection rebellion. You
could make a pretty good case that he had every
constitutional right to do that Civil War for goodness sakex uh.
And then in sadly, one of our black eyes I
guess on our nation's history was the internment of Japanese
Americans during World War two, and the same thing happened.
(10:13):
Then more than a hundred thousand Japanese Americans were detained
and held um, many of them American born citizens. So yeah,
I mean, think about how screwed up that is. That
would be like after nine eleven if we had um
had round up every Muslim, every Muslim, not even Muslim,
you know, because that would be based on religion. This
is based on a nationality. So let's say we we
(10:36):
rounded up every Saudi American and put them into soccer
stadiums that we had, you know, reinforced with concertina wire
and fences and German shepherds just because they were Staudias.
This happened like sixty years ago, not so long ago,
so very good friend of Syrian, I can't imagine a
world where we would do something like that. Yeah, well,
(10:58):
it's a good thing you weren't alive and ninety forty two,
my friend, because you would have wept tears and the
most ironic orup I guess not that words not appropriate.
But the most surprising part of the revocation of Habeas
corpus in nineteen forty two for Japanese Americans was that
it took uh until nineteen seventy six, Jerry Ford. Gerald
(11:22):
Ford finally issued an executive order that reinstated the rid
of habeas corpus or the right of habeas corpus to
Japanese Americans. So, for that that thirty plus year period,
if you were a Japanese American, technically they could throw
you in jail for whatever and you couldn't uh contest
(11:42):
the legality of your incarceration, which is scary, it is.
I wonder if that happened. I don't know, that's a
great question. I have a feeling it was probably just
not acted on, and no one really thought much about
it until gerald Ford popped up on his radar somehow. Yeah.
I wonder how you forget something like that, you know,
Roosevelt just forgot to pass it along, you know, Hey, Truman,
(12:03):
don't I guarantee Japanese Americans probably didn't forget. Yeah, I
wouldn't think so. So now we're up to the modern
day time. So the Military Commissions Act two thousand six.
You remember Mark Foley, yes, Florida representative, I think so
okay um, And he had a little the email tryst
(12:24):
with one of his male aids. His pages, little man
boy I think he was like seventeen or eighteen. That
story happened the it broke coincidentally, the same time, Congress
passed the Military Commissions Acted two thousand six, which allowed
it to kind of go into the radar exactly. It
was this huge sweeping act. Really, although it succinct, it
(12:48):
really had huge repercussions, and it was basically aimed at
terror suspects um and as far as Habeas corpus goes,
it related to it related to that right by revoking
it for anyone deemed an enemy combatant, which once again
they leave it nice and vague exactly. And they also
(13:09):
said that the President and Congress and a few other
high officials can deem whoever they want enemy combatant and
that can't be contested in Once you're deemed an enemy combatant,
you are stripped of your right of habeas corpus, which
means that's why that's how all these people down at
Guantanamo Bay were kept. And definitely uh and the this
Military Commissions Act, it's so cynical. It was passed after
(13:33):
the Supreme Court had ruled that these people were being
held there illegally in in flying in the face of
the Geneva Convention. So Bush had, you know, Congress passed
this federal law that basically overturned that Supreme Court ruling.
It's nuts. So all these people are being held there's
enemy combatants, and you think, you know, it's who cares
(13:55):
they're terrorists. The problem is is there were plenty of
um of his down there where people were released because
they've been picked up just because they had the same
name as a terror. UM. There is a guy whose
name was maher Are I believe that's the pronunciation, you know,
(14:15):
I butcher foreign names. He especially Mr r r Uh.
He was a Syrian born Canadian national. He's a naturalized
citizen computer engineer. And he popped up on the Canadian
Mounted Police's intelligence watch list in two thousand two. UM,
(14:36):
and they alerted the US authorities and some other you know,
friendly nations that this guy was on their list and
that he left the country. He went to Tunisia, all right,
and on his way back to to Canada, his home,
he had a layover at JFK in New York and
he was picked up by federal authorities. US officials and
(14:58):
they secretly rendered to Syria, where he was kept in
a prison and tortured for a year before the Syrians,
who we outsourced the tortured two you remember, um, concluded
that he wasn't a terrorist and had no ties of terrorism.
The the Syrians were the ones who decided that the
U S couldn't even figure it out. But after your tortured,
(15:20):
luckily for Mr ar, the Syrians concluded that he wasn't
a terrorist and set him free. Now that Canada get involved,
I would think that they was, Yes, Canada is in
big trouble, but really the US is in bigger trouble,
um or was? I think it's been swept under the
carpet by now. Um. But the US officials told the
(15:41):
Canadians that they were going to send him back to
Switzerland because he went from Tunisia to Switzerland, and that
they the U S said, hey, thanks a lot for
telling us. We're just gonna grab him and send him
back to Switzerland. We don't want him in the country,
and what you don't really want him either, right, And
they put him on a plane to Jordan, took overland
of Syria, gave him to the Syrians to be tortured
(16:03):
find out what he knew. I think one point, do
you make in the article is it was a retroactive act,
so it was passing two thousand six. This guy was
picked up when two thousand two. Yes, so it was
a retroactive act, meaning anyone picked up after September. Yeah,
I had no habeas corpus right. And it also gave
retroactive immunity all the way back to September eleven one.
(16:24):
Any US official who was engaged in anything that can
be construed as torture or illegal as far as it
was fell under the umbrella of the War on Terror,
which is beyond screwed up. So we still have this
act today, it's still on the books, um, and it's
still a huge bone of contention. And hopefully, from what
(16:45):
I understand, when Obama comes back into or when he
comes into office, he's going to basically repeal the Military
Commissions Act. He's going to hopefully get it repealed, and um,
he's going to come up with a new lead system
that's design just to prosecute high level, high value terror
(17:06):
suspects in the US. So basically it's gonna let a
bunch of them go, then he's gonna send them back
to their country of origin for prosecution. Incarceration or freedom.
I don't know. Uh, the low level ones they're just
gonna prosecute in regular American courts. Then the high level
ones are gonna be a more secret court um where
they get all the aspects of due process, but it's
(17:29):
not as transparent. So you know, you they won't be
able if their accusers a CIA informant, they won't be
able to face that accusers. Sorry, t s you know,
but there's still evidence is going to be submitted. Um. Oh.
Another thing about the Military Commission's Act, testimony uh gathered
from torture was actually admissible. Really yeah, so if you
(17:50):
if you tortured somebody and they confessed to being a
terrorist to get you to stop, Oh well there's your confession. Amazing.
And you know, this isn't a liberal Democrat thing, it's
a human rights thing. So definitely we should just point
that out that it's not like uh President elect Obama
just wants to set terrorists free all over the all
over the world or anything. No, definitely not. And he's
(18:12):
he's actually he's also getting criticism from both sides too, like,
you know, should we set up a legal a new
legal system just for this, you know, the A. C.
L Use criticizing the plan just as much as Republicans
are criticizing him for shutting down Guantanamo. But yeah, I
agree with you wholeheartedly. It is a human rights issue,
and um, I'm glad to see that it's going to
(18:33):
be resolved. I very strongly believe it's going to be resolved,
to let's hope. Yeah. The worst part is is that,
you know, America is going to spend the next twenty
years trying to um regain our our our image or
our standards, you know. Um. And then by about that time,
that's when all those horrendous documents are going to come
out of everything that went down in Guantanamo. It's just
(18:56):
that second jab to the eye. Yeah. Yeah, So, uh,
let's hope as corpus ladies and gentlemen look for one
time am obey to go the way of disco, hopefully
in the next several months. And uh, you know what
time it is now, don't you check? I think so?
I think it's reader mail time, listener mail. Uh. So,
(19:17):
I've got a little Thanksgiving episode love from some folks.
Sweet and if you recall, during the Thanksgiving episode, I
made I put the call out to the stuff. You
should know nation that if anyone out there is not
a vegetarian and they forego the turkey for let's say, steak,
then I would love to hear from them. Let's let's
play the Colick show. Yeah. Uh, of Americans now eat
(19:40):
turkey on Thanksgiving, and I would imagine the tim percent
who don't. A lot of those are probably vegetarian. I
can't imagine you would choose another meat if you're not
a vegetarian other than turkey. You have to be some
sort of communists. Yeah. If we have listeners out there
who do, who are not vegetarian and who opt for
steak on Thanksgiving, I'd love to hear from you. Okay,
(20:01):
so yet you said it, So there we have it.
So we actually heard from a few folks. We heard
from Chris Ent. That's Ian T. Hope. I'm pronouncing that right.
Chris Um. He married a lovely lady from Tokyo and
he has a tradition that Josh and I we want
to be invited over next year, Mr, and we would
gladly accept any invitation you extended. Right, I would forego
(20:21):
the turkey because what they do, Uh, the wife doesn't
like the turkey flavor. This is a this is at uh.
So what he does is he buys an entire New
York strip which is about ten pounds of beef, and
he cuts it up into humongous inch and a quarter steaks,
and then on Thanksgiving he cooks them up on the
grill with pear wood and actual wood charcoal, and he
(20:44):
smokes a salmon. Well, he says, pear wood and actual
wood charcoal. I'm just reading, uh, And he smokes a
wild salmon and the smoke. So they have smoked salmon
and h wood fire grilled steaks and that's what they
have for the leftover. Said fantastic again, Mr, And you
know we will be giving you well, actually you already
know our email. It's a stuff podcast that how stuff
(21:07):
works out constantly. Just send us those invitations along, right,
I've got a couple of more to him too quickly.
Chris Corby responded that his family eats chicken a capon specifically,
which I looked it up. It's a large castrated rooster, yeah,
he says, I think it's a big chicken. I noticed that,
and hate I hate to tell you, but that's just
so it's sort of like a chicken and it's like
(21:28):
a turkey is as big as a turkey. Turkey with
a falsetto voice right uh. And then we heard from
Travis Ilig, who is a not a vegetarian. He hates turkey,
even though his whole family loves it, he doesn't like
the flavor and he said that makes Thanksgiving his least
favorite holiday, which is very sad because he grew up
eating potatoes and rolls uh and having to answer questions
(21:51):
about why he doesn't like turkey every year. So now
he's done everything from bringing his own Chinese food, pizza
and lobster. I would go for the lot yeah, and
uh dining with the family or he said, the last
few years they've gone to a Thanksgiving buffet so they
can have their turkey. He can have his uh spaghetti
wherever he wants. What's that last guy's name, Travis ill.
(22:12):
I think Travis has the saddest story out of the three,
and I think just for that he deserves a how
Stuff Works t shirt. Travis, if you want to send
us your name and address to Stuffed podcast at how
stuff works dot com, we will gladly pass that along
to you and you can wear it happily while you
sadly eat your spaghetti on Thanksgiving. Anybody else who wants
(22:32):
to drop us a line let us know something we
screwed up in this podcast, which I'm quite sure we
did again. It's stuff Podcast at how stuff works dot com.
For more on this and thousands of other topics. Does
it how stuff works dot com. Brought to you by
(22:54):
the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. It's ready, are you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know
from House Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, and welcome to
the podcast. Welcome to the Stuff you Should Know. I'm
Josh say Hi, Chuck. Hi. How's it coming? Chuck? Uh? Great?
A little cold, but other than that fun fun, well, Chuck,
(00:23):
you know what it's It's supposed to get really really
cold this January, which is a significant day. You heard
about that in this segway. That's a good one. Thanks.
Is that the inauguration? Yes, it is, and they're expecting
up to maybe four million people and worst case scenario
they're talking is thirty thirty one degrees in raining. Everything
(00:44):
will be icy and frozen, and there's gonna be old,
you know, old people dying left and right, basically children
exactly in peril. Yeah. Um, so it'll probably be the
if that happens, the most the most death fraught inauguration
of all time. And there's been some pretty bloody ones. Really,
I don't know. Okay, no, I'm not sure, but um
(01:07):
I I personally am looking forward to the inauguration. Um because,
as I understand it, Barack Obama. We've heard of him,
president our next president. Yes, um, he is planning on
restoring a part of the constitution that was shaved off
a couple of years ago. Well, thing called habeas corpus. Yes,
(01:28):
you've heard of this, I have. It is a Latin term.
And you said you took Latin in high school. No, No,
I took German? Did you? You just continue to surprise
and amaze me. I seemed like a Spanish guy, don't I.
I would have definitely said Spanish. I wish I had
taken Spanish it with I would be better now for it.
But although you could definitely get yourself a desk job
(01:49):
at how stuff works, Frankfurt? Is there how the works?
Frank okay? I I mentioned to create one for you though,
if you lobbied for it enough. Uh So. Habeas corpus
is Latin and it means, uh, you have the body.
And essentially what it is is that it's a legal
term that that it's kind of in order from a
judge to a jailer saying you have the body, bring
(02:12):
him to me so we can figure out if he's
being in prison legally or not. Right. I've heard this
term a lot I'm glad we're doing this because I
never you know, it's one of those terms that everyone's
probably heard of but doesn't know a lot about. So yeah,
there's a lot to it. Basically, what Habeas corpus does
is we have a set of um guarantees in the
Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Actually, if you really
take a look at the Bill of Rights, you know
(02:34):
the Framer's top ten great protections that that that list,
Um they most of it has to do with being prosecuted, right, um,
you know thinks so in taking all together, it's called
due process. So you have a right to confront your accusers,
you have a right to counsel, speedy trial. Speedy trial
(02:56):
is a big one. Fair trial, fair trial, huge. But
the thing is is, you know, the these things can
be guaranteed to you and I all day long, but
they don't amount to anything if we don't have any
action to take to ensure that they're actually being carried out,
that the the these guarantees are are being delivered on.
And that's what Habeas corpus is. It's it's that mechanism
(03:17):
by which these constitutional protections are you know, guaranteed. That's
a great thanks a lot. Well that's it for today. Um,
if that's all for me, folks, well, don't put this
on me, because there's a lot to come. Do you
want me to carry the corpus part? Okay? So, um,
it's not this is not a new concept. It it
(03:39):
actually dates back before the Framers, uh created the constitution
and ratified in nine goes back to England. Correct, it's
it's English common law in the in the seventeenth century.
If you're a Catholic like I was raised, you would
be in grave danger of being picked up by the
king'sman and throne in jail. Because this is a time
(04:01):
when I believe it was King Henry, one of the kings.
You know, there's just so many of them I can't
keep them straight in Um, he when whoever was king,
had had established the Church of England, and uh, you
know that was the big rival to the Catholic Church.
So he wanted a state sponsored, state run church and
didn't really want any competition. So if you're a Catholic,
(04:23):
you were probably going to be in prison and heldon,
not given a trial or anything like that nod process.
So Parliament came up with this this protection and actually
it made date back further than that. Some people say
that it's it's kind of implied by the Magna Carta,
which was twelve fifteen at running med It's a long
long time ago, it is, um. But it it actually
(04:45):
became codified as habeas corpus in in the seventeenth century England,
and then the framers picked it up and it's in
the constitution. It's a huge right, you know. UM. And
in American practice, if you have habeas corpus, the process
goes like this, you're tried or you're jailed. Even you
(05:05):
can say you're jailed. Most of the time you've already
been tried and now you've been convicted and incarcerated. And
a writ of habeas corpus can actually be a legal
strategy where after all of your appeals run out, you
can use it. You can issue a petition of habeas
corpus and you're saying, hey, judge, you know I don't
think at my trial I was given a fair trial.
(05:27):
Say you know my counselor was inadequate, Um, he was
drunk all the time. That kind of thing, or the
prosecution like hid you know, important evidence that would have
exonerated you you can, you can issue this in a
petition of habeas corpus. Judge considers that if the judge
decides that you know, it raises enough questions about the
(05:47):
legality of your imprisonment, you will well, no, it's not
another trial, it's a hearing and actually no habeas corpus.
It's not a rehash of your actual trial. So it's
not an appeal at all, not really, but it's it
kind of falls in step with the appeal process. It's
so what happened as far as you know, you murdered
(06:09):
somebody or that's what you're accused of. The judge and
the habeas corpus hearing, it doesn't care about that. What
they care about is evidence that shows that you're you know,
your defense attorney was drunk, that kind of thing. Sure,
I get it. And the So these things also tend
to as a legal strategy, tended to come in a flurry.
(06:30):
Would say, like a prosecutor is found to have been,
you know, um, a cocaine user, and it comes out,
so everyone that person prosecuted all of a sudden lines
up there rid of habeas corp They they start sending
out petitions of habeas corporate your corpy. I guess the
petition is first, and then and then if the judge
thinks that it's worth hearing the judge issues are rid
(06:51):
of habeas corpus bring the body to me. Uh and
and that's that's pretty much how it's used. But you
can actually, um, you can contest your in car reseration,
I believe, at any point, but using it as a
as a legal strategy, that's usually how it's used. It's
kind of depressing. I think if I were a prisoner,
just being referred to as the body is I don't know,
(07:12):
that would worry me immediately. Yeah, and corpus sounds a
lot like corpse. Like I said, I didn't take Latin,
but I have a feeling those two are probably connected, right.
I thought you said you did take Latin German German? Really?
Um yeah, I think though being referred to as the body,
I would be much more um, concerned with the fact
that I was in prison. You know, at that point
(07:34):
you're probably already used to being called the body or
the booty or something horrible, and you know, being those
those those names being made good on, right, you have
your prior recent line exactly. Yeah, So check. Um, we
we understand Habeas corpus kind of get an impression of
why it's important. Now, it's it keeps us from being
thrown into jail and the key being thrown away. Right,
(07:57):
it's our one recourse because really think about it, the system,
it is this entity that stands between the state which
has the power to throw you in jail, and the
individual which can be thrown in jail. The whole purpose
of the court system, the legal system, is to find
out whether or not this person should be incarcerated or
punished guilt or innocence. Um. So, the it's kind of insinuated.
(08:22):
It's placed in between the state and the individual, um too,
as a buffer, as a protection as much as it
is you know, the the judge and jury that can
and exec executioner cases. Right. Okay, So so now we
understand how important it is, which kind of gives us
an idea then of how egregious the Military Commission's Act
(08:45):
of two thousand six was. Right. Well, let's back up
a little, because let's do it. This is not the
first time the Military Act of two thousand six, Commissions
Act that Habeas corpus has been revoked. Oh oh, that
was one other thing we should probably say, hunch chuck.
In the Bill of Rights, it actually specifically mentions habeas
corpus it's actually thinking the Constitution. It says the only
(09:08):
time that habeas corpus can be suspended, suspended is in
times of insurrection or rebellion, when it's when it serves
the public safety can be the only time it can
be suspended. Not that he opens it up to some
interpretation obviously, you know what it shouldn't because it's so explicit.
(09:31):
But yes, sadly, over the course of American history has
been interpreted in my in my opinion, incorrectly. So, yeah,
you were saying, you give us some examples. Well, one
example is during the Civil War President Lincoln, Abraham Lincoln
suspended habeas corpus um when the Civil War broke out,
and uh, five years later it was reinstated at the
(09:51):
end of the Civil War and which insurrection rebellion. You
could make a pretty good case that he had every
constitutional right to do that Civil War for goodness sakex uh.
And then in sadly, one of our black eyes I
guess on our nation's history was the internment of Japanese
Americans during World War two, and the same thing happened.
(10:13):
Then more than a hundred thousand Japanese Americans were detained
and held um, many of them American born citizens. So yeah,
I mean, think about how screwed up that is. That
would be like after nine eleven if we had um
had round up every Muslim, every Muslim, not even Muslim,
you know, because that would be based on religion. This
is based on a nationality. So let's say we we
(10:36):
rounded up every Saudi American and put them into soccer
stadiums that we had, you know, reinforced with concertina wire
and fences and German shepherds just because they were Staudias.
This happened like sixty years ago, not so long ago,
so very good friend of Syrian, I can't imagine a
world where we would do something like that. Yeah, well,
(10:58):
it's a good thing you weren't alive and ninety forty two,
my friend, because you would have wept tears and the
most ironic orup I guess not that words not appropriate.
But the most surprising part of the revocation of Habeas
corpus in nineteen forty two for Japanese Americans was that
it took uh until nineteen seventy six, Jerry Ford. Gerald
(11:22):
Ford finally issued an executive order that reinstated the rid
of habeas corpus or the right of habeas corpus to
Japanese Americans. So, for that that thirty plus year period,
if you were a Japanese American, technically they could throw
you in jail for whatever and you couldn't uh contest
(11:42):
the legality of your incarceration, which is scary, it is.
I wonder if that happened. I don't know, that's a
great question. I have a feeling it was probably just
not acted on, and no one really thought much about
it until gerald Ford popped up on his radar somehow. Yeah.
I wonder how you forget something like that, you know,
Roosevelt just forgot to pass it along, you know, Hey, Truman,
(12:03):
don't I guarantee Japanese Americans probably didn't forget. Yeah, I
wouldn't think so. So now we're up to the modern
day time. So the Military Commissions Act two thousand six.
You remember Mark Foley, yes, Florida representative, I think so
okay um, And he had a little the email tryst
(12:24):
with one of his male aids. His pages, little man
boy I think he was like seventeen or eighteen. That
story happened the it broke coincidentally, the same time, Congress
passed the Military Commissions Acted two thousand six, which allowed
it to kind of go into the radar exactly. It
was this huge sweeping act. Really, although it succinct, it
(12:48):
really had huge repercussions, and it was basically aimed at
terror suspects um and as far as Habeas corpus goes,
it related to it related to that right by revoking
it for anyone deemed an enemy combatant, which once again
they leave it nice and vague exactly. And they also
(13:09):
said that the President and Congress and a few other
high officials can deem whoever they want enemy combatant and
that can't be contested in Once you're deemed an enemy combatant,
you are stripped of your right of habeas corpus, which
means that's why that's how all these people down at
Guantanamo Bay were kept. And definitely uh and the this
Military Commissions Act, it's so cynical. It was passed after
(13:33):
the Supreme Court had ruled that these people were being
held there illegally in in flying in the face of
the Geneva Convention. So Bush had, you know, Congress passed
this federal law that basically overturned that Supreme Court ruling.
It's nuts. So all these people are being held there's
enemy combatants, and you think, you know, it's who cares
(13:55):
they're terrorists. The problem is is there were plenty of
um of his down there where people were released because
they've been picked up just because they had the same
name as a terror. UM. There is a guy whose
name was maher Are I believe that's the pronunciation, you know,
(14:15):
I butcher foreign names. He especially Mr r r Uh.
He was a Syrian born Canadian national. He's a naturalized
citizen computer engineer. And he popped up on the Canadian
Mounted Police's intelligence watch list in two thousand two. UM,
(14:36):
and they alerted the US authorities and some other you know,
friendly nations that this guy was on their list and
that he left the country. He went to Tunisia, all right,
and on his way back to to Canada, his home,
he had a layover at JFK in New York and
he was picked up by federal authorities. US officials and
(14:58):
they secretly rendered to Syria, where he was kept in
a prison and tortured for a year before the Syrians,
who we outsourced the tortured two you remember, um, concluded
that he wasn't a terrorist and had no ties of terrorism.
The the Syrians were the ones who decided that the
U S couldn't even figure it out. But after your tortured,
(15:20):
luckily for Mr ar, the Syrians concluded that he wasn't
a terrorist and set him free. Now that Canada get involved,
I would think that they was, Yes, Canada is in
big trouble, but really the US is in bigger trouble,
um or was? I think it's been swept under the
carpet by now. Um. But the US officials told the
(15:41):
Canadians that they were going to send him back to
Switzerland because he went from Tunisia to Switzerland, and that
they the U S said, hey, thanks a lot for
telling us. We're just gonna grab him and send him
back to Switzerland. We don't want him in the country,
and what you don't really want him either, right, And
they put him on a plane to Jordan, took overland
of Syria, gave him to the Syrians to be tortured
(16:03):
find out what he knew. I think one point, do
you make in the article is it was a retroactive act,
so it was passing two thousand six. This guy was
picked up when two thousand two. Yes, so it was
a retroactive act, meaning anyone picked up after September. Yeah,
I had no habeas corpus right. And it also gave
retroactive immunity all the way back to September eleven one.
(16:24):
Any US official who was engaged in anything that can
be construed as torture or illegal as far as it
was fell under the umbrella of the War on Terror,
which is beyond screwed up. So we still have this
act today, it's still on the books, um, and it's
still a huge bone of contention. And hopefully, from what
(16:45):
I understand, when Obama comes back into or when he
comes into office, he's going to basically repeal the Military
Commissions Act. He's going to hopefully get it repealed, and um,
he's going to come up with a new lead system
that's design just to prosecute high level, high value terror
(17:06):
suspects in the US. So basically it's gonna let a
bunch of them go, then he's gonna send them back
to their country of origin for prosecution. Incarceration or freedom.
I don't know. Uh, the low level ones they're just
gonna prosecute in regular American courts. Then the high level
ones are gonna be a more secret court um where
they get all the aspects of due process, but it's
(17:29):
not as transparent. So you know, you they won't be
able if their accusers a CIA informant, they won't be
able to face that accusers. Sorry, t s you know,
but there's still evidence is going to be submitted. Um. Oh.
Another thing about the Military Commission's Act, testimony uh gathered
from torture was actually admissible. Really yeah, so if you
(17:50):
if you tortured somebody and they confessed to being a
terrorist to get you to stop, Oh well there's your confession. Amazing.
And you know, this isn't a liberal Democrat thing, it's
a human rights thing. So definitely we should just point
that out that it's not like uh President elect Obama
just wants to set terrorists free all over the all
over the world or anything. No, definitely not. And he's
(18:12):
he's actually he's also getting criticism from both sides too, like,
you know, should we set up a legal a new
legal system just for this, you know, the A. C.
L Use criticizing the plan just as much as Republicans
are criticizing him for shutting down Guantanamo. But yeah, I
agree with you wholeheartedly. It is a human rights issue,
and um, I'm glad to see that it's going to
(18:33):
be resolved. I very strongly believe it's going to be resolved,
to let's hope. Yeah. The worst part is is that,
you know, America is going to spend the next twenty
years trying to um regain our our our image or
our standards, you know. Um. And then by about that time,
that's when all those horrendous documents are going to come
out of everything that went down in Guantanamo. It's just
(18:56):
that second jab to the eye. Yeah. Yeah, So, uh,
let's hope as corpus ladies and gentlemen look for one
time am obey to go the way of disco, hopefully
in the next several months. And uh, you know what
time it is now, don't you check? I think so?
I think it's reader mail time, listener mail. Uh. So,
(19:17):
I've got a little Thanksgiving episode love from some folks.
Sweet and if you recall, during the Thanksgiving episode, I
made I put the call out to the stuff. You
should know nation that if anyone out there is not
a vegetarian and they forego the turkey for let's say, steak,
then I would love to hear from them. Let's let's
play the Colick show. Yeah. Uh, of Americans now eat
(19:40):
turkey on Thanksgiving, and I would imagine the tim percent
who don't. A lot of those are probably vegetarian. I
can't imagine you would choose another meat if you're not
a vegetarian other than turkey. You have to be some
sort of communists. Yeah. If we have listeners out there
who do, who are not vegetarian and who opt for
steak on Thanksgiving, I'd love to hear from you. Okay,
(20:01):
so yet you said it, So there we have it.
So we actually heard from a few folks. We heard
from Chris Ent. That's Ian T. Hope. I'm pronouncing that right.
Chris Um. He married a lovely lady from Tokyo and
he has a tradition that Josh and I we want
to be invited over next year, Mr, and we would
gladly accept any invitation you extended. Right, I would forego
(20:21):
the turkey because what they do, Uh, the wife doesn't
like the turkey flavor. This is a this is at uh.
So what he does is he buys an entire New
York strip which is about ten pounds of beef, and
he cuts it up into humongous inch and a quarter steaks,
and then on Thanksgiving he cooks them up on the
grill with pear wood and actual wood charcoal, and he
(20:44):
smokes a salmon. Well, he says, pear wood and actual
wood charcoal. I'm just reading, uh, And he smokes a
wild salmon and the smoke. So they have smoked salmon
and h wood fire grilled steaks and that's what they
have for the leftover. Said fantastic again, Mr, And you
know we will be giving you well, actually you already
know our email. It's a stuff podcast that how stuff
(21:07):
works out constantly. Just send us those invitations along, right,
I've got a couple of more to him too quickly.
Chris Corby responded that his family eats chicken a capon specifically,
which I looked it up. It's a large castrated rooster, yeah,
he says, I think it's a big chicken. I noticed that,
and hate I hate to tell you, but that's just
so it's sort of like a chicken and it's like
(21:28):
a turkey is as big as a turkey. Turkey with
a falsetto voice right uh. And then we heard from
Travis Ilig, who is a not a vegetarian. He hates turkey,
even though his whole family loves it, he doesn't like
the flavor and he said that makes Thanksgiving his least
favorite holiday, which is very sad because he grew up
eating potatoes and rolls uh and having to answer questions
(21:51):
about why he doesn't like turkey every year. So now
he's done everything from bringing his own Chinese food, pizza
and lobster. I would go for the lot yeah, and
uh dining with the family or he said, the last
few years they've gone to a Thanksgiving buffet so they
can have their turkey. He can have his uh spaghetti
wherever he wants. What's that last guy's name, Travis ill.
(22:12):
I think Travis has the saddest story out of the three,
and I think just for that he deserves a how
Stuff Works t shirt. Travis, if you want to send
us your name and address to Stuffed podcast at how
stuff works dot com, we will gladly pass that along
to you and you can wear it happily while you
sadly eat your spaghetti on Thanksgiving. Anybody else who wants
(22:32):
to drop us a line let us know something we
screwed up in this podcast, which I'm quite sure we
did again. It's stuff Podcast at how stuff works dot com.
For more on this and thousands of other topics. Does
it how stuff works dot com. Brought to you by
(22:54):
the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. It's ready, are you
Stuff You Should Know News
Hosts And Creators
Chuck Bryant
Josh Clark
Show Links
AboutOrder Our BookStoreSYSK ArmyRSSPopular Podcasts
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Decisions, Decisions
Welcome to "Decisions, Decisions," the podcast where boundaries are pushed, and conversations get candid! Join your favorite hosts, Mandii B and WeezyWTF, as they dive deep into the world of non-traditional relationships and explore the often-taboo topics surrounding dating, sex, and love. Every Monday, Mandii and Weezy invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriarchal norms. With a blend of humor, vulnerability, and authenticity, they share their personal journeys navigating their 30s, tackling the complexities of modern relationships, and engaging in thought-provoking discussions that challenge societal expectations. From groundbreaking interviews with diverse guests to relatable stories that resonate with your experiences, "Decisions, Decisions" is your go-to source for open dialogue about what it truly means to love and connect in today's world. Get ready to reshape your understanding of relationships and embrace the freedom of authentic connections—tune in and join the conversation!