December 28, 2010 • 49 mins
Immigration systems regulate the flow of foreign immigrants into any given country. But why is immigration such a controversial topic, especially in the United States? In this episode, Josh and Chuck delve into the details and debate behind immigration.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know
from house Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. So you did a cross
from me. As Always as it should be is Charles W.
(00:22):
Chuck Bryant, and that makes this stuff you should know.
The podcast the Dream of the Legend. Yeah, the classic podcast,
classic audio. Yeah, look at us. Yeah, we're We're called
pioneers before on I Tunes. Do you remember that? Then
year one we're like the Milton Borough of podcast and
now we're already classics. I wonner. Next year will be
(00:43):
on the way out if you just die already, husbands,
I think that's what it will be. Come well, you're
referring to we were We were named the number seven
podcast of the year in the classics category. We were
ahead of or behind our class well as always. Yeah,
you know, I've said it before and I'll say it again.
I don't feel comfortable being ahead of Ira Glass, you know,
(01:04):
I just feel like I'm walking around the big target
on my back or something. No. No one does stands alone.
So Chuck, yes, I wish you probably mentioned, um while
we're at the top of the podcast. Facebook stuff you
should know. And on Facebook, come join us. It's a
lot of fun. Yeah, give yourself a little Christmas treat. Yeah,
and uh on Twitter, follow Josh's Twitter feed s y
(01:28):
s K podcast. But you you run the show there
for the most part. You do a good job. I'm
filling in the blanks buddy rarely, but thank you, Chuck. Josh. Hey,
have you ever heard of the Dream Act? I have
as as of uh, I mean not as of today,
but today big news. Yes, the Development Relief and Education
(01:49):
for Alien Miners Act, which is basically like s CHIP
for illegal immigrant kids, but without the healthcare right right, Yeah, yeah, Um.
It was passed in the House to day by a
vote of to sixteen. And uh, that's kind of a
big deal. It moves on to the Senate. Well, let's
getting a little hinky because the Senate may kill this thing.
(02:09):
Oh yeah, well, I mean this is like breaking news,
so who knows what's gonna happen in the next hour
after we record. But that's the word on the street. Wow.
But basically, this, uh, this Act provides a path to
citizenship for kids who were brought to the United States
as illegal immigrants and have grown up here. Well yeah,
and who uh qualify in certain ways, like they've been
(02:29):
here five years, they've attained obtained a high school diploma
or a g e d. And demonstrate a good moral character,
so they're not just willy nilly handed out citizenship. And
if you're a little kid right now and you were
brought to the US illegally as a child, go start
volunteering at nursing homes. That can only help your kids,
(02:50):
and the nursing home people will enjoy it as well. Well.
This one guy they mentioned in here quickly, Caesar Vargas,
is of course they pick out like the one shining
star as their example. But he's going to graduate law
school with a three point eight g p A and
wants to serve in the U. S Military, And potentially
this is blocked. He won't be allowed to do so, no,
which is you know, it's kind of sad. We need
(03:13):
willing and able bodies, smart guys and gals, hard workers,
we do need. I mean, actually, most of our immigration laws,
as I understand from researching this article, um are kind
of structured around the economy. Yeah, you know, like our
are the order of preference for the types of immigrants
(03:33):
that we give pieces to are are kind of like,
how's your back right, right? You know exactly and strong
come on it. Yeah, well they did say that the
Dream Act um the Congressional Budget Office said it would
actually cut the federal deficit by one point four billion
dollars how and increase revenues. I would guess by adding
(03:54):
people taxes and people to the workforce, uh, will increase revenues.
That's what they say, at least over a decade. And
that with offering them tuition in state tuition to college. Right, Yeah, yeah,
that's pretty big. Okay, Chuck, let's talk immigration, shall we. Yeah?
This is way more dense than I thought it was
gonna be, really did. I knew it was going to
be sort of complicated, because becoming a citizen is is
(04:15):
sort of complicated, but I didn't know there were so
many ways to do. We should say spoiler alert here,
naturalization isn't even in this podcast. And it's that dense. Yeah,
I wondered about that. There's no citizenship classes, there's no nothing.
The word green card doesn't appear in here, either, just immigration.
That is correct, My friend remember Happiness. One of the
(04:36):
characters was an immigration naturalization teacher. That's your favorite movie.
We'll Chuck, let's start at the beginning. Okay, back in
the seventeen seventies. Uh, there's a guy named Samuel Ellis
and he on the little island in New York Harbor. Yeah,
it was very important in eighteen twelve, it was an
(04:57):
important defensive position. After the British left. We said, you
know what, let's just use this to immigrant people. Let's
just funnel him through here, build up a nice little
building and change everybody's names. And that was Ellis Island. Yep,
and uh. From eight to nineteen fifty four, dude, twelve
(05:19):
million immigrants pass through that tiny little island, and of
our population in this country can be traced back to
an immigrant from Ellis Island. And I think, without slanting
anything or um leaning one way or the other, I
think it behooves all of us while we're listening to
this podcast, to kind of bear that in mind, that
(05:41):
maybe your relatives were immigrants at one point. Yeah, so, Chuck,
let's talk immigration. How do you do this. Let's talk
legal immigration first. Yeah, Well, we should point out beforehand
that when he said that we should remember bear in
mind that a lot of our ancestors were immigrants. There
are nativists that believe that, like, you shouldn't let any
people into the country anymore, right, And those aren't to
(06:02):
be confused with Native Americans, who are actually the ones
who were here originally. Big difference. These are people who
are descended from immigrants who are saying that we shouldn't
let anybody in the country. But I would encourage any
nativist to attend a naturalization ceremony, That's all I'm gonna say.
I've been to one. Yeah. I worked on a little
documentary on Jane Seymour's naturalization. What Dr Quinn medicine woman. Oh,
(06:28):
she was naturalized? Yeah, I thought she made a documentary
called naturalization. No no no, no, she was naturalized and they
hired a camera crew to follow her around. And I
worked on that and I went to ceremony in Los
Angeles and it was you know, it's easy to get
down in this country when you hear about those things
citizens with LSD and other hinky science experiment human experimentation
and stuff. But you go to one of these things
(06:50):
and it's a genuine reminder and I don't get hokey
like this much. But I was misty eyed for sure. Yeah.
I mean an auditorium full of people at the Congress
uh Congress Center, what's it called an l A Staples
Center st the Hollywood Bowl, the Hollywood Bowl, Jerry Sucker's house.
But all these kids and and uh and adults just
(07:11):
uh you could just see it on their faces. They
were so happy to be citizens of the US and took,
you know, said the allegiance and it was really really cool. Yeah,
you're like, those people know more about civics than the
average person who was born here right now, darn straight. Alright,
so let's go ahead, Jay Seymour class act, Chuck. And
before we move on, one of Dave Lederman's top ten
signs you're in a bad fraternity Every Saturday night is
(07:34):
Dr Quinn Medicine woman Night. Is that for really? That's good?
So Chuck Um, you're done. You're ready to actually talk
about legal immigrants. That's my mini rant against people that
say close up shop. I like your rants. They're very
non offensive, thank you. Um. There are a few agencies
that are charged with um immigration, and let's make the distinction.
(07:56):
Chuck Um. You've heard of immigration and m imigration with
an irony. So immigration with an eye means that you
are going into a country. Immigrating means that you are
leaving a country or exiting with an e. That's how
I would remember. That's a good one. Um, I remember
it like I am nauseous to you, chuck, because I
(08:18):
make you feel nauseated. That's how I keep immigrant and immigrant.
That's an interesting denemonic device like that. Yeah, So it
used to be I N. S. Who is in charge
of immigration and uh, these days it's Department of Homeland Security. Right,
pretty much ever since two thousand one in the Department
of Homeland Security was organized after that, Um, I N
S is, No, it's pretty much taken a back seat,
(08:40):
if they're even still around. And under the Homeland Security
is the obviously the Border protection US CUP, Customs and
Border Protection and the US Citizenship and Immigration Service. They
handle a lot of the paperwork, right, Customs and Border
Protection handles like the law enforcement aspect of it. Yeah, right,
that Congress passes the laws, right, and Congress is up
(09:02):
to there in charge of all immigration policy. The president
can have an agenda that he tries to push through Congress,
but it's up to Congress. The one thing the president
does have a direct hand in is creating refugee policy.
And we'll talk a little bit about refugees. But I
propose right here and now that we do a podcast
on refugees at some point in time. Yeah, we'll handle
immigration and we'll do refugees later. Agreed, it's a layoff
(09:23):
ue um, chuck. Yes, there are plenty of different aliens. Yeah,
there's the illegal alien if you've heard of. There's the
legal alien, the most famous one being sting in englishmen
in New York. Um. And there's a lot of other
words that get bandied about. I get the impression that
(09:44):
alien is not quite um acceptable as it once was.
It's more it's just immigrant now. But it's not an
offensive word. It's actually still a very um. It's a
it's a legitimate word to use. Yeah, you have a
resident alien who was you're not assistant or national, but
you have the right to live and work here, so
um or a nonresident alien is like if you have
(10:06):
a travel visa you're here for you know, you're an Australian.
You're allowed to live here for a little while. You're
an Australian let's face it. Um naturalized, not to be
confused with spiritualized, but naturalized means that you are a citizen.
But you you became a citizen after birth. You weren't
a born citizenymour right class act. Yes, she's married to,
(10:28):
by the way, Stacy Keach's brother, Todd Keach. Or was
it Stacy No, Stacy Keach's brother Todd. No, it's not Todd.
I can't remember. But that's her husband. He's a filmmaker
and he made the film about her becoming a citizen.
That's awesome. Yeah, well I started bring that up. So
basically they rode off about six months of their life. Yeah,
and he was he acted for a short time. He
(10:48):
was in vacation. Remember when the officer pulls him over
for killing the dog, dragging the dog. He that's him,
that's ke James Keach. Really yeah, okay, full circle. Yeah,
that's good stuff. Check all right. Um, there is the uh,
the end all be all of before being naturalized, the
lawful permanent resident, which is basically like kick back, relax,
(11:13):
get a job, have a drink, do whatever you want.
Just just start just apply something here there. But you're
allowed to live here for the rest of your life.
You're not necessarily a citizen. Don't try and vote, don't
you dare try and serve on a jury? Right, right?
But you know pretty much everything else is fine. Right,
So how do people get here? Well, you have to
(11:36):
apply for a visa. That's the first step in all
of these processes, is the old visa. Yeah, And and
it depends on where you are right where you go
apply uh yeah, or or where's what your status is? Right? Well, sure,
if you well, if you are in a country, let's
say you're Swedish and you're like, I am so sick
of this minimalist furniture crap. I want to get to
(11:58):
the US and then no crime and in the gorgeous
sceneries and the women that are blond and tall, Right,
I want to leave all that? Right? Okay? Um, and
moved to Detroit. Yes, you want to move to Detroit.
What you would do is you would go to the U.
S Consulate in Stockholm or wherever you find the closest
one to you in your country of origin and say
(12:20):
I want to move to Detroit, And after a few
minutes of them like thinking you're joking, finally convinced them
you're you're telling the truth. They're going to start the
process of applying for a visa, right, yeah, and this
has to become a permanent resident. This isn't like a
work visa or student visa. Those are all temporary, right.
This is if you want to stay here forever in Detroit. Uh.
(12:41):
And you but but this visa is not. This is
a This is basically your ticket to get from your
country to a port. Yeah. Not even in the United States. No,
which is confusing to me. And you're setting yourself up
for an almost immediate um let down because the consular
officer who's going to eventually interview you after you fill
(13:01):
out your application can say sorry, we we don't want
your type in Detroit. Yeah, or they could interview and
say great, and then you could have another awkward encounter
when you get to the port of entry because they
don't have to let you in either. No, the the
the the port authority agent can be like, no, no,
I don't really like the looks of you. I don't
like your mustache. I don't like that cable n sweater.
(13:24):
Go back to sweeten. I hate Ikia yeah is that Swedish? Okay?
I always I think it's Swiss for some reason. Everything
over there that's over here Swedish. Okay, So, uh, let's
say you do get here to the port of entry.
They will ask you a few questions when you get
to that port of entry, like where you're from, what
do you want to do here? Is anyone sponsoring you?
(13:46):
Do you have family here? Or that kind of thing? Right?
And um, there are different kinds of visas. I get
the impression that there's the like, wink wink, nudge, nudge,
let the Swede in, he wants to go to Detroit,
no criminal background, just let him in type of visa
down to the um, we're not entirely certain that this
guy is not a criminal visa so like really scrutinized him. Right. Yeah.
(14:09):
They give out four hundred and eighty thousand permanent resident
visas every year. That's for family. Yeah, yeah, if you
want to join a family member that's in the country. Right, sorry, Right,
So you maybe you get married to an American Joe
or something like that during the war, sure, um, or
(14:29):
you're you have dual citizenship. You're because you're you were
born somewhere with two different parents, for parents from two
different countries. So you have dual citizenship. You chose the
other country. Now you want to move to the US
and your parent lives here, that's probably pretty easy, especially
again with the economics if you're twenty one and unmarried,
(14:50):
because you're going to come over here, probably make babies
with an American girl, so you're gonna take care of her,
and you are going to get a good job, so
you're going to spend money raising your or kid here,
and you are going to do nothing but be an
economic driver rather than a drain. Yes, we'll put so
if you let's say you do have a family member here, Uh,
(15:10):
you need to prove your relationship. UM. I would guess
beyond just saying I promise you it's my father, and uh,
you need like you have to have an affida affidavit
of support UM that says that you can support this
person at a hundred and above the poverty line, which
is like nineteen grand. It's not much, basically saying you're
(15:32):
you're not going to be a drain on the system.
You'll barely eat by if nothing else, but as long
as you can eat by, as long as you can
eat buy, then it's got to get approved by the
U s C I S. Yes. Again, the the kind
of the bureaucratic arm of immigration right right, then the
Department of State checks to see if a visa number
is available, Uh, if you might already be in the US,
(15:55):
so you can apply to have your status change to
that that awesome lawful permanent resident. It after you get
a number, or if you're outside and you get a number,
you go to the US to where they tell you
to go. You go to the consulate and and finish
the process there in Detroit, right and and no in
in your country still or outside. So basically the whole
(16:17):
key to immigration is is down the middle. Whether you're
doing this outside the country or inside the country, there's
basically two different sets of you know, it's like a
choose your own adventure book. Right. If you're inside the US,
you know, turn to page thirty two and then you know,
apply for lawful permanent resident status. If you're if you're
(16:37):
still in Sweden, go to page twelve and go to
the consulate. It really does get a little convoluted. I
don't I don't think they make it hard on purpose,
but I think you just hit we should totally see
o A. This is in no way legal advice to
anybody who is listening to US in Australia or Sweden especially. Um,
we're just using you as an example. If you actually
(16:59):
do to immigrate to the US, we hope this inspires
you to do it lawfully and to go contract and
immigration attorney, or at least do a lot of heavy
lifting research on you know, um, Department of State, the
Department of Homeland, securities websites or the very least by
Immigration for dummies, or I just don't guarantee is out there.
(17:21):
Just do something in addition to listening to this show,
That's what I say. Or if you do, just listen
to this show and you you become a lawful citizen
from it. We want an email from you about that.
Yeah in frienness on Facebook. Yeah that's so cheap. Uh
So where are we here? The family sponsorship? Should we
(17:42):
go through that? The preference? Yeah, we talked about the preferences, right,
so let's let's spell them out. Um, provided your at
least twenty one parents, spouses and unmarried children of US citizens,
you don't have to wait, like if they are citizens,
you don't have to wait for that visa number. No,
you can if you're if you're visas approved or if
your petition for alien relative is approved. Um, you can
(18:05):
just come on over and become a lawful permanent resident, right, Yeah,
and that's if they're a citizen. If you're relative is
a citizen. Right. If one of your relatives has made
it over and has become a lawful permanent resident, Uh,
then you can start to come over to But there's
there's different preferences for that. It's a spouse or an
unmarried soner daughter again probably of twenty one, of twenty
(18:28):
one years of age or older. Yeah, that's first preference
and not too old, right. The second preferences spouses of
lawful permanent residents. Uh, they're under one under twenty one,
unmarried children and unmarried children of lawful permanent residences I'm sorry, residents,
third preference married children of citizens, and fourth preference siblings
(18:50):
of adult citizens. Wow, yeah, siblings of adult citizens. It's like, yes,
you go vis left over, you really need your brother
were here? I mean really, Yeah, you're thirty and you
gotta have your brother over here, right or you're seventy
you know, so yeah, it gets a little convoluted for sure. Um,
chuckers there have been. There are other ways to do this.
(19:14):
If you were the first of your family and you
are starting on the path to citizenship, right, Um, there's
some other ways to get in the country to get
the ball rolling. Number one. One of the best ways
to do this is through a the Diversity Lottery program.
That means that you are living in a country where
(19:34):
immigration to the US is really not that bulky. Not
a lot of people are not not a lot of
Swedes coming over to the US. Necessarily they probably get
shot at it um. And so the State Department sets
aside fifty five thousand visas visa numbers every year, and
actually a hundred and ten thousand is what they really
set aside because a lot of people don't complete the process.
(19:57):
But they basically say, hey, you want to come to
the US. Not too many people are coming over from
your country. We we are the great melting pot over here.
We're missing a little bit of your spice. So how
about applying huh and um. The Kentucky Consular Bureau is
responsible for this. And in two thousand eleven, Chuck, did
you know that nine New Caledonians and one Lichtenstinian among
(20:20):
the where among the who came over. Wow, and one
person from the French Arctic lands. I don't even know
that is uh. And if you're if you're lucky enough
to hit this lottery, Josh, you can live here and
work here forever and bring your family. You can bring
your family. You can bring your unmarried children. They're under
(20:41):
twenty one, they're one, then they're on their own. Right,
you become a lawful permanent resident who who can become
a citizen under that. But it's like a huge not
just like uh, it's like the express lane. Yeah, you're
in there. Another way to do it is through employment, right,
didn't know about this one or the next one. No,
(21:02):
this is that. This is how we got the Nazis
over here to start our rocket program through Operation paper Clip. Okay,
immigration through employment, gotcha? Yeah. So yeah, that's when the
employer kind of sponsors you and they submit a labor
certification requests certification like that. I like that was the
other one you said to the residences and I'm all
(21:24):
over the place out of fated. Yeah, I'm all thick
tongue today. Um, an honor of you. So you submit
that to the Department of Labor. Uh. If it's granted.
Then the employer then files for a petition for alien
worker considered by the U S U S S C
(21:44):
I S again. Then if that's approved, then you can
get the immigrant a visa number from the State Department
and basically say go to work. But that's reading the
little qualifications there, the like the types of workers, the preferences. Yeah,
so you've got um EB one which is priority workers,
(22:05):
which is we need a rocket program to get to
the moon fast. Um e B two is professionals with
advanced degrees of persons with exceptional abilities. Basically, if you
live in Bangalore, India right now, that's you. You're coming
over here, no problems. Um EB three skilled or professional workers.
I think a lot of people, a lot of yes,
(22:26):
a lot of roofers UM made their way into Florida.
I imagine through that without immigration status. And there's EB
four special immigrants. I have no idea. I can't even
begin to think of what kind of job that would be.
We need someone on the inside, if you know, if
you work for the State Department, let us know what
a special immigrant is. Yes, and then there is the
(22:48):
what what you could call the yellow brick road to citizenship. Yeah,
this is the the cherry on top. Basically, if you
have if you have some money you want to throw
around and invest in in the American dream, you can
buy you can buy your visa. It's ten thousand investor
visas every year made available. And uh, you have to
there's you know, a few different ways to do it.
(23:09):
You have to prove, basically that you're gonna make an
investment in a commercial endeavor that's approved and that you're
going to create ten ten or more jobs through this endeavor. Right,
and this is half of those half of those ten
thou investor visas are set aside for this pilot project
called um OH Regional Centers, which is basically it's a
(23:29):
rural area struggling business. It's it's a part of the
US that needs some investment, needs some new businesses. Right Detroit,
here we go again. Uh. You can also get that
same visa, Josh by starting a business or purchasing a
business that's not doing so hot. Uh. You can also Yeah,
if you purchase the business. You can't just purchase that.
(23:50):
You have to show that you can inflate its revenues
by and keep everybody on staff, right, or the golden
ticket if you just have a lot of money, if
you have half a million dollars, you can say I'm
gonna invest that in a rural area, or if you
have a million dollars, you can just invest in some
other venture anything. And and the best part is if
(24:12):
you invest that million dollars correctly, not only do you
buy your visa, you might make a substantial amount of
money back on your investment. So that Yeah, if you've
got a lot of dough, then you can become an
American citizen. Sack, come on in, spend your money, right, Yeah,
And I have to say, I know you don't print
out the pictures. You're missing out on this one. There
(24:33):
are some cool maps that are like inflated and and
exaggerated and anemic and colorful based on based on immigration
to countries. Interesting. And then there's also one where refugees are.
It's really neat. I recommend going and checking this. South
and Central America are skinny. America islated is cool? Yeah,
(24:55):
so so is the Middle East? Very very big? How
is it? Huh uh? So let's talk about asylum. This
is it's pretty convoluted as well. Actually, yeah, if you
remember one thing from this podcast, A person seeking asylum
is called in Assili. That's it. Can we just stop there?
(25:19):
You know what asylum is, Josh, it's obviously it's when
you're protected, um from if you're fleeing persecution from your country.
You can come here and say I need asylum because
I live in Sudan. Well, do you remember in the
Rules of War podcasts we were talking about World War
two changed everything basically brought the whole world together, uh,
to say we need to come up with some like
(25:39):
rules not just for war, but for the Universal Declaration
of Human Rights that was passed through ratified UM. Countries
of the world said as a human being, uh, people
have the right to seek and enjoy in other countries
asylum for persecution. It is basically like it's some horrible
(26:03):
stuffs going on over here. You have to take these
people if they come to your country. That that's a
basic human right to be free from that. Because there's
other parts of the world. Yeah, yeah, or at the
very least in the case of the United States, you
you can go to another country that we have a
deal with an asylum deal, like hey, you might like Canada, right,
Not only that, if they yeah, if they come to
(26:24):
the U S and they're like, we I'm seeking asylum.
We can be like, you're approved for Canada and we
can just take you there, like we'll give you a
bus ticket even But yeah, it's it's kind of funny
because we have asylum treaties with other countries. It's interesting. Yeah,
there are no quotas or limits on on this kind
of visa. You just have to demonstrate a well founded
(26:47):
fear for your life basically, yeah, of persecution in his
or her home country, right, and you make that case
um at a point of entry. So basically, if you're
seeking asylum, here's the difference between in ASSYLI and a
refugee again inside or outside of the country. So let's
say that you are fleeting fleeing Sudan and you've made
(27:08):
it to Egypt, right, You're like, I don't really want
to stay in Africa any longer. I really want to
seek I want to I want to seek asylum in
the US, but I'm doing it from Egypt. Your refugee,
if you leave Egypt and come to the Port of
Savannah and say I want asylum, you're in Asia. It's
just where you're doing that. But it's the same thing
(27:30):
for the same reasons. You're being persecuting your home country
and you're seeking comfort and freedom from persecution in another country.
Got it. You know you've heard of the is it
the Lost Boys of Sudan? The child Soldiers? Why am
I thinking? Is that the Lost Boys of Sudan? Right?
It sounds right? Yeh. One of those guys works at
Twains Indicator. He's a former child soldier, I think so.
(27:56):
And he was just very happy to be bussing tables
at Twains. I'm sure. I mean everyone loved this guy.
I don't know if he's still there. There has been
a couple of years since I've been there, but yeah,
it was really neat. I mean he was you know,
the news stories all over the place about these guys,
and he worked there and was one of the U
was the word I'm looking for. People loved him. He
(28:17):
wasn't a mascot, but he was. He was almost like
people would come to Twains and like everyone said high
to him and and he was. He's very nice guy.
Mascot's not the right word. Save it for the refugee podcast, um,
because we're talking about asylum here. Yes, So, Chuck, if
you're fleeing persecution. That's kind of specific. You can't be like,
(28:39):
no one in my home country likes me. Right, that's
not persecution, right, No, no, no, it's um persecution based
on race, politics, nationality, religion, membership in a social group.
So if like the US turned on the nights at Columbus,
they could go to like Europe and seek asylum. Or
if you're in a book club. Yeah, I'm not sure
(29:02):
what that means. Okay, Um, there are two types of asylum, Josh,
here's affirmative and defensive asylum. And from what I get,
affirmative is when you arrive here at a portive entry.
You within a year of being here, you submit your application,
it's filed, and you have an interview. They call it
non adversarial. It basically means doesn't take place in court. Right,
(29:26):
It's gonna take place in a friendly office and everybody's
gonna be smiling and uh, they're not detained. You can
live here while your case is being considered. Um, but
you can't work, isn't that right? I believe that is right.
And actually, if you do this the right way, like
the US is set up, but we actually have an
Act from nine called the Refugee Act and if anybody
(29:49):
can ask for asylum no matter what your alien status is,
and we actually have mechanations, mechanization mechanisms will go with
that one in place, um to kind of hasten this process.
So if you do this correctly, you can have this
whole thing buttoned up in sixty days and be kicking
back in Detroit. Yeah. If it never goes to uh
(30:10):
before a judge and it just stays nice and affirmative
and non adversarial, yeah, then you're you're in like Flint
in no time. Right. So basically what you want to
do is within a year of landing in the US,
you want to go to a port and ask for asylum. Yeah.
I would do that on day two. Why not after
I've gone out and like, I seen what nightlife? That's
the offer. And then there's defensive asylum, and that is
(30:34):
when you are you were in danger of being deported
and you're trying to get asylum. Yes, so that's not
like you came here and you filed all the correct paperwork.
That means they're saying, now you need to go home,
and you're like, no, I don't want to go right.
That means like, if you waited two years, yeah, and
you go, they're gonna be like, oh, well now you're
now you're in defensive asylum, dummy, Why don't you do
(30:56):
this a year ago? Right? Or if you weren't granted asylum,
you can still try and get in through defensive asylum,
right if you've gone through If you went through affirmative
asylum and we're denied that, your next step would be
going through defensive asylum, which is adversarial, meaning it's in
a court. Everybody's a little stern talking to you, a
little mean, there's lawyers and all that stuff. Um, and
(31:20):
we should say here, if you were caught without correct documentation,
if you um forfeited your alien status anything like that. Uh,
it doesn't just apply to illegal immigrants. It applies to
illegal immigrants who can again demonstrate a quote credible fear
of persecution or torture. This is asylum. It just applies
(31:41):
to those people. Yes, right, Yes, and then there's expedited
removal chuck. Yeah, that's if you're busted basically with no
documentation coming in coming in and you're just like, oh,
I just thought you needed the plane ticket. Is that
not good enough? Here's my luggage receipt and actually this
is pretty cool. The immigration officials, which I imagine includes
(32:06):
the customs UM agency, right, yeah, uh, which we did
a podcast something, didn't we um, They have to ask
four questions of anyone they catch, uh trying to make
it into the US illegally. Right. They have to ask, oh,
why did you leave your home country? Uh? Why or
(32:29):
do you have any fear concerned about being returned to
your home country? Uh? Would you be harmed if you
were returned to your home country? Do you have any questions?
Anything else you'd like to add? It's actually in your
Uh so it basically anybody who wants to seek asylum
can say I'm seeking asylum, and that's gonna start off
this process. You're not They're not gonna be like, no, yeah, anyone.
(32:53):
If you come here and you want asylum, you're at
least gonna be able to speak with someone about that.
You're not just gonna be turned away at the door.
But if you busted getting in, you're going straight to
defensive asylum. If you make it through and then go
to a port right and say I'm seeking asylum, they'll
that'll be affirmative asylum. People like I was, are probably like,
(33:15):
what so confusing? Yeah, just go to the port and
say asylum and that'll that'll kick start something interesting. That'll
start the process for sure. Uh So we're not gonna
talk too much about refugees, but um, the two thousand
nine World Refugee Survey puts that number at about thirteen
point six million worldwide refugees. And in uh last year, God,
(33:39):
that's up a lot. Because this article was written I
think in like two thousand seven and Silverman did you
notice Jacob Silverman made a Bruno reference. Um, he said
that in two thousand and five there were nine point
five million UM refugees at the beginning of that year.
We're up to thirteen million, that's what it said. Wow.
(34:00):
And uh, last year, the US admitted sixty thousand refugees
and the next closest was Canada at about eleven thousand,
and then the ASSES said about nine thousand. Wow, there's
refugees from Canada. No refugees. That Canada said once you
come on here to the Great right North, we'll let
(34:20):
you know. They admitted the refugee. And that's you know,
refugees are looking for at the very least temporary protected status.
And that's when you're like, all right, we'll take care
of you for now and then we'll work this whole
thing out in a minute. But you're safe. Is that
all on? Refugees? And listen? Do you do you want
to do a podcast? Dot? Yeah? Yeah, let's do one later.
(34:41):
All right, Well, let's let's move on to the the
sexiest business of all of this. Yeah, controversy illegal immigration. Yeah,
it's hard to say, obviously how many there are. The
numbers are kind of all over, but the Department of
Home Homeland Security said that, uh, there were ten point
eight million last year, which is down a full million
(35:02):
from O eight and that's the largest drop in thirty years. Yeah. Well,
in the middle of a pretty big recession. Times are
tough here. I don't really think about that. That's exactly
why I would still think that it would be better
than being in Warez. Well, I'm glad you brought up
Warez because I had a question about that about se
you Dodd Warez. Do you like my Spanish? Yeah? But
(35:24):
I was talking about war is the place, But go ahead,
that's what I'm talking about that too. Oh Is that
the full name of it? Yeah, it means Warrez City.
Like I wasn't talking about see you, Dodd Warez. I
was talking about Warez City. I don't know who that
dude is. But think about it, Like, I think more
than six thousand people have died in July. This past
(35:45):
July hit the six thousand mark. Not have died, we're killed, Okay,
we're killed in war Is alone since January two eight
because of the real deal drug war. Right, So, if
you're fleeing that across the US border, what's how is
how can you not seek asylum? Is it that you
(36:07):
could conceivably go south and deeper into your home country
and be relatively safe. Yeah, I don't know. I was
hoping you would. Yeah, I don't know if asylum is
just for Yeah, I mean that would definitely constitute a
fear of fearing for your life, for sure, your persecution
for sure. That's a good point. But that is that
(36:28):
that's kind of posed a problem for people in Warez
fleeing north, you know, because the US is right there.
Warez is in the middle of a real drug war
and it's a very dangerous place right now. Maybe they
don't think asylum, they just think, you know, across Yeah, illegally,
and so should clue him in. Yeah, and before we
(36:49):
were you were talking about the controversy with illegal immigration,
and we mentioned the recession. It seems like they're there.
That's pretty much. I don't think too many people have
problems with peaceful refugees seeking asylum in the US. It's
when economics are brought into it that will go nuts. Right, Um,
that always goes back to money, right, it does. But
(37:11):
I think first we should kind of we're we're up here, like, oh, well,
they're coming in down south and the border, right, Um,
we should probably point out that for a lot of
people who are making these border crossings illegally, it's extremely dangerous, right.
Silverman who wrote this um this article cited three thousand
people who have died since trying to make the trek
(37:36):
between the Mexico California border Mexico California. Yeah, since we
since we erected the fence. They're interesting. Yeah. Um. Also
coyotes who you pay to get you across the border,
especially if you're coming out of warrez Um. They basically
double as drug transporters. They use illegal immigrants as mules
(37:58):
basically like well, here, carry some drugs and I won't
charge you, and the person will say, well, no, I'll
just pay you, and the guy pulled out a gun
and goes, no, you're going to carry these drugs. So
these people are not just getting busted coming into the country.
They're getting busted with tons of dope on them and
they're going to prison. Well, and then that gives the
argument to the native of saan See, they're just coming
(38:19):
in here bringing drugs when it may be traced back
to this one drug runner. It is making these hundreds
of people smuggling their drugs, and I think there's a
lot of confusion going on. But yes, it's it's not
good down there right now. No, it's not so. Uh.
Illegal immigrants, as most people know, a lot of times
will come to this country, join up with some of
their family who may be here already legally and do
(38:43):
jobs that Americans don't want to do for low wages.
That happens a lot of times. It's not legal, you're
not supposed to hire these people, but it happens. Yeah,
it wasn't there. Um, I think Colbert did it. There's
a a group in New York State who we're offering
this farm hand like I think fruit harvesting job to
(39:06):
anybody who wanted it, any American born American, you wanted it,
and no one took him up on it. Yeah, well
that kind of goes uh to the guest worker program,
which is something George w was in favor of and
that has not been approved, but it's been bandied about
a lot. And basically that means if you can't find
any American to do a job that you want, you know,
(39:27):
to hire someone for, then hire a foreigner for about
you know, to be a term limit like three years,
um track them through the system, make them pay some
taxes while they're here, and then give them an incentive
to return home, like, hey, we'll even give you retirement
benefits which you can collect in Warez after your term
(39:49):
is done, after you've worked for three years. And I
didn't know this at a little digging. There was actually
a program from ninety two to nineteen sixty four called
called the Bracero program that Roosevelt put in, and it
was basically that it was we need a lot of labor,
so let's get some of the Mexican people up here
to do this work. And it was a nice exchange.
But in the middle of this and then we were like,
(40:10):
everybody get out. Well it was till nineteen sixty four.
But in nineteen fifty four, in the middle of this program,
the I n S ran a program no lie called
Operation wet Back What That was the name of it what?
And their goal was to round up one thousand aliens
per day and get them out and in the end
more than one million Mexican nationals. We're taken back to
(40:34):
Mexico courtesy of the US, and not just taken back
to Mexico, but like eight hundreds to a thousand miles
deep into Mexico to discourage them coming back to the US.
Was this program headed up by Don Johnson, No man,
but that was the name of it. I mean you
can google it. So anyway, that's part of our our
lovely history to here. Wow. But um, until the guest
(40:56):
worker program is for real, then it's just an idea
that some people say might not be a bad one. Yeah, Like,
if they're here working, why not see if we can.
Because the reason a lot of people get mad, we
should explain it's like this is fun, I'm watching you
tap dance is a they're not paying taxes is what
the people against US say and be they most times
(41:16):
are sending money straight back to their homes. Yeah, so
they're not even putting money into the economy. Remember when
we were in Guatemala, we found out that tourism number two,
agriculture number three, remittances was the number one driver of
their economy while we were there. Unbelievable. That takes a
lot of people off, right, But I think that that's
(41:38):
kind of a flash point, um. For I don't think
it encapsulates the whole thing. Is something the beginning and
the end of the problem with immigration, of course not right,
um chuck. A lot of people say, you want a
guess worker program path to citizenship that is amnesty, and
we don't do that in the US, right, Yeah, actually
(42:01):
we do. We've given amnesty to it a lot of people. Uh.
In nineteen Uh, Fidel Castro opened up the Merrielle Port
Havannah and a hundred and twenty five thousand Cubans said
see you later and showed up on mass in Miami. Yeah,
amnesty seems to have gone in big waves here. Yeah,
(42:23):
which is what a lot of people say. That's why
we shouldn't do it, because it just encourages people to
come here illegally in hopes that there will be another
big amnesty. Right. It rewards illegal behavior, It's federally mandated
rewards for illegal behavior. I totally understand that argument. Um,
it's a slap in the face to all the people
who came here legally and went through this hard, kind
(42:44):
of grueling process legally. Um. And you know all the
other problems as well. Um. But I guess my point
is we have given amnesty to people before and hasn't
been the end of the country. Yeah, you know what
I'm saying. It's good point. Um. And by the way,
that that Cuban migration in that's what Scarface starts out.
(43:06):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And the delt Force came to
Atlanta actually because a lot of the immigrants were moved
to federal prisons just to hold for a while until
the government figured out what to do with them. There
was an uprising in the Atlanta federal pen attention and
the Delts Force showed up to quell it. W Well,
that's kind of what happened in scar Face, right when
there are a big uprising on their internment camp. Yes,
(43:29):
great movie. So obviously we well we didn't really talk
about the border Patrol. We could do a whole podcast
on that, but yeah, we did with customs. Yeah, we
talked about that. We can't say that that that virtual
border fence that was controversial and full of issues, technical
issues and delays. Obama put it into that in March
(43:51):
and said, this thing is we could use our money
better than this. It's not working. But there is a fence.
There's five and eighty miles of vents along the border,
pedestrian and vehicle fencing. So I mean they're they're working
on it. I don't know. I mean, they can clearly
never build a fence along the entire border, but the
(44:11):
Minutemen Civil Devent Defense Corps is trying to do it
on their own, not very successfully though they talk a lot,
but apparently they did a report on their fence and
they basically said it's a cattle fence. I once interviewed
the guy, the guy who founded that. I can't remember
his name right now, but I talked to him on
the phone, and you just start him talking and he'll talk.
(44:34):
It was very interesting, very interesting conversation to just basically
sit there and take notes on well, I mean, I
guess I see what they're trying to prove. But they
were you know, their goal was a ten mile stretch
of fence, and come on, ten miles. I mean, you
can walk that in an hour and go around it
ten miles an hour. You're gonna have to be jogging
running okay, two hours? Okay, what do you walk about?
(44:55):
Four miles? I walk about a mile and a half
an hour because I stop a lot and lay down. Well,
you're a stroller? What else, dude? Um, well, that's it.
An amnesty. You want to talk about some more highlights
of amnesty. About a million Nicaraguans were given amnesty through
the Central American Relief Act. UH hundred and twenty five
(45:16):
thousand Haitian refugees were granted amnesty on mass and all
of that is because of the Night six Immigration Reform
and Control Act, which gave amnesty to about two point
eight million illegal immigrants. And the president who did that one,
Ronald Reagan, ooka there. Yeah, it's funny how things were.
He was such a dichotomous president. Man. Yeah, okay, I
(45:42):
got nothing else. I don't either. I think that's the
end of immigration. We don't ever have to talk about
it again. Yeah, we can do refugees. We can do
naturalization at some point. Yeah, we could. Well, just how
about this, We'll just play selected clips from Jane Seymour's
naturalization documentary and just be like, oh wow, alright, God,
(46:02):
that's something, and then we'll, uh, we'll make sure to
get a lot of you crying. Okay, so Chuck. If
anybody wants to learn more about immigration, very dense article
well written by one Jacob Silverman who used to work here.
You can type in immigration that's two MS in the
handy search bar at how stuff works dot com, which
means it's time now or listener mail Josh, I'm gonna
(46:28):
call this, uh shout out requests that we don't grant often,
but we are in this case. Oh, this is a
big one that we can pay for these now. No
in Karmen, we do, guys. My name is Eric Rrickson.
I've been listening to your show for some time now.
I was actually shown them by my friend. Uh, how
would you pronounce I l O in a Elona? Alona? Elona?
(46:51):
It's like Alona, which is why I'm actually emailing you
guys for her birthday this year. I'm trying to do
something really, really special I've been emailing her favorite actors
and musicians to see if they could send an autograph
or a short message. So far, I've gotten messages back
from Andrew Bird, who I'm a fan of, and Priscilla
On who was another singer who I don't know, and
they both got back. So I felt that's the only
(47:13):
reason I did this. I thought, well, we can't be
the jerks who don't do it. How many of these
we're gonna get now, No, don't bother. We're gonna do
like a happy birthdays figure. Now. I figured it'd be
really awesome if you two can maybe give a shout
out to her and the listener mail sections. So that's
what we're doing here. Eric, would mean a lot to
me if you could do this. It doesn't matter when
he didn't tell us when her birthday was. I'm just
(47:33):
hoping she doesn't listen to it before they give for
the rest of the things, and he still doesn't tell
me when a birthday is. So we're ruining this for you,
Alona that I'm very sorry. If you get back to
me sometime, it would be super awesome. And uh yeah,
I just want to tell you why. Alona means so
much to me. So that is very sweet. Eric with
(47:56):
the c K, and I hope, I hope this gets
in a minute whatever you're seekings. And Eric with the
c K, you can't trust. Eric's a speller names of
the C and a KA. It's one to the other.
You should just throw a T on the end of that.
Just he's very middle of the road. I'll bet so
you can see your sign, but I can also see
your side. I'll bet this immigration podcast just made his
head explode. Well, he clearly needn't. One of them are
(48:18):
gonna get through this, so they'll just think that we
blew them off. Well, thanks a lot um. If you
want to say happy birthday to somebody, apparently it's the
the border is open, everybody's streaming through. Let us know
why we should say happy birthday to somebody. Wrap it
up in an email and send it to stuffed podcast
(48:38):
at how stuff works dot com for more on this
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dot com. To learn more about the podcast, click on
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(49:02):
thousand twelve Camry. It's ready, Are you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know
from house Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. So you did a cross
from me. As Always as it should be is Charles W.
(00:22):
Chuck Bryant, and that makes this stuff you should know.
The podcast the Dream of the Legend. Yeah, the classic podcast,
classic audio. Yeah, look at us. Yeah, we're We're called
pioneers before on I Tunes. Do you remember that? Then
year one we're like the Milton Borough of podcast and
now we're already classics. I wonner. Next year will be
(00:43):
on the way out if you just die already, husbands,
I think that's what it will be. Come well, you're
referring to we were We were named the number seven
podcast of the year in the classics category. We were
ahead of or behind our class well as always. Yeah,
you know, I've said it before and I'll say it again.
I don't feel comfortable being ahead of Ira Glass, you know,
(01:04):
I just feel like I'm walking around the big target
on my back or something. No. No one does stands alone.
So Chuck, yes, I wish you probably mentioned, um while
we're at the top of the podcast. Facebook stuff you
should know. And on Facebook, come join us. It's a
lot of fun. Yeah, give yourself a little Christmas treat. Yeah,
and uh on Twitter, follow Josh's Twitter feed s y
(01:28):
s K podcast. But you you run the show there
for the most part. You do a good job. I'm
filling in the blanks buddy rarely, but thank you, Chuck. Josh. Hey,
have you ever heard of the Dream Act? I have
as as of uh, I mean not as of today,
but today big news. Yes, the Development Relief and Education
(01:49):
for Alien Miners Act, which is basically like s CHIP
for illegal immigrant kids, but without the healthcare right right, Yeah, yeah, Um.
It was passed in the House to day by a
vote of to sixteen. And uh, that's kind of a
big deal. It moves on to the Senate. Well, let's
getting a little hinky because the Senate may kill this thing.
(02:09):
Oh yeah, well, I mean this is like breaking news,
so who knows what's gonna happen in the next hour
after we record. But that's the word on the street. Wow.
But basically, this, uh, this Act provides a path to
citizenship for kids who were brought to the United States
as illegal immigrants and have grown up here. Well yeah,
and who uh qualify in certain ways, like they've been
(02:29):
here five years, they've attained obtained a high school diploma
or a g e d. And demonstrate a good moral character,
so they're not just willy nilly handed out citizenship. And
if you're a little kid right now and you were
brought to the US illegally as a child, go start
volunteering at nursing homes. That can only help your kids,
(02:50):
and the nursing home people will enjoy it as well. Well.
This one guy they mentioned in here quickly, Caesar Vargas,
is of course they pick out like the one shining
star as their example. But he's going to graduate law
school with a three point eight g p A and
wants to serve in the U. S Military, And potentially
this is blocked. He won't be allowed to do so, no,
which is you know, it's kind of sad. We need
(03:13):
willing and able bodies, smart guys and gals, hard workers,
we do need. I mean, actually, most of our immigration laws,
as I understand from researching this article, um are kind
of structured around the economy. Yeah, you know, like our
are the order of preference for the types of immigrants
(03:33):
that we give pieces to are are kind of like,
how's your back right, right? You know exactly and strong
come on it. Yeah, well they did say that the
Dream Act um the Congressional Budget Office said it would
actually cut the federal deficit by one point four billion
dollars how and increase revenues. I would guess by adding
(03:54):
people taxes and people to the workforce, uh, will increase revenues.
That's what they say, at least over a decade. And
that with offering them tuition in state tuition to college. Right, Yeah, yeah,
that's pretty big. Okay, Chuck, let's talk immigration, shall we. Yeah?
This is way more dense than I thought it was
gonna be, really did. I knew it was going to
be sort of complicated, because becoming a citizen is is
(04:15):
sort of complicated, but I didn't know there were so
many ways to do. We should say spoiler alert here,
naturalization isn't even in this podcast. And it's that dense. Yeah,
I wondered about that. There's no citizenship classes, there's no nothing.
The word green card doesn't appear in here, either, just immigration.
That is correct, My friend remember Happiness. One of the
(04:36):
characters was an immigration naturalization teacher. That's your favorite movie.
We'll Chuck, let's start at the beginning. Okay, back in
the seventeen seventies. Uh, there's a guy named Samuel Ellis
and he on the little island in New York Harbor. Yeah,
it was very important in eighteen twelve, it was an
(04:57):
important defensive position. After the British left. We said, you
know what, let's just use this to immigrant people. Let's
just funnel him through here, build up a nice little
building and change everybody's names. And that was Ellis Island. Yep,
and uh. From eight to nineteen fifty four, dude, twelve
(05:19):
million immigrants pass through that tiny little island, and of
our population in this country can be traced back to
an immigrant from Ellis Island. And I think, without slanting
anything or um leaning one way or the other, I
think it behooves all of us while we're listening to
this podcast, to kind of bear that in mind, that
(05:41):
maybe your relatives were immigrants at one point. Yeah, so, Chuck,
let's talk immigration. How do you do this. Let's talk
legal immigration first. Yeah, Well, we should point out beforehand
that when he said that we should remember bear in
mind that a lot of our ancestors were immigrants. There
are nativists that believe that, like, you shouldn't let any
people into the country anymore, right, And those aren't to
(06:02):
be confused with Native Americans, who are actually the ones
who were here originally. Big difference. These are people who
are descended from immigrants who are saying that we shouldn't
let anybody in the country. But I would encourage any
nativist to attend a naturalization ceremony, That's all I'm gonna say.
I've been to one. Yeah. I worked on a little
documentary on Jane Seymour's naturalization. What Dr Quinn medicine woman. Oh,
(06:28):
she was naturalized? Yeah, I thought she made a documentary
called naturalization. No no no, no, she was naturalized and they
hired a camera crew to follow her around. And I
worked on that and I went to ceremony in Los
Angeles and it was you know, it's easy to get
down in this country when you hear about those things
citizens with LSD and other hinky science experiment human experimentation
and stuff. But you go to one of these things
(06:50):
and it's a genuine reminder and I don't get hokey
like this much. But I was misty eyed for sure. Yeah.
I mean an auditorium full of people at the Congress
uh Congress Center, what's it called an l A Staples
Center st the Hollywood Bowl, the Hollywood Bowl, Jerry Sucker's house.
But all these kids and and uh and adults just
(07:11):
uh you could just see it on their faces. They
were so happy to be citizens of the US and took,
you know, said the allegiance and it was really really cool. Yeah,
you're like, those people know more about civics than the
average person who was born here right now, darn straight. Alright,
so let's go ahead, Jay Seymour class act, Chuck. And
before we move on, one of Dave Lederman's top ten
signs you're in a bad fraternity Every Saturday night is
(07:34):
Dr Quinn Medicine woman Night. Is that for really? That's good?
So Chuck Um, you're done. You're ready to actually talk
about legal immigrants. That's my mini rant against people that
say close up shop. I like your rants. They're very
non offensive, thank you. Um. There are a few agencies
that are charged with um immigration, and let's make the distinction.
(07:56):
Chuck Um. You've heard of immigration and m imigration with
an irony. So immigration with an eye means that you
are going into a country. Immigrating means that you are
leaving a country or exiting with an e. That's how
I would remember. That's a good one. Um, I remember
it like I am nauseous to you, chuck, because I
(08:18):
make you feel nauseated. That's how I keep immigrant and immigrant.
That's an interesting denemonic device like that. Yeah, So it
used to be I N. S. Who is in charge
of immigration and uh, these days it's Department of Homeland Security. Right,
pretty much ever since two thousand one in the Department
of Homeland Security was organized after that, Um, I N
S is, No, it's pretty much taken a back seat,
(08:40):
if they're even still around. And under the Homeland Security
is the obviously the Border protection US CUP, Customs and
Border Protection and the US Citizenship and Immigration Service. They
handle a lot of the paperwork, right, Customs and Border
Protection handles like the law enforcement aspect of it. Yeah, right,
that Congress passes the laws, right, and Congress is up
(09:02):
to there in charge of all immigration policy. The president
can have an agenda that he tries to push through Congress,
but it's up to Congress. The one thing the president
does have a direct hand in is creating refugee policy.
And we'll talk a little bit about refugees. But I
propose right here and now that we do a podcast
on refugees at some point in time. Yeah, we'll handle
immigration and we'll do refugees later. Agreed, it's a layoff
(09:23):
ue um, chuck. Yes, there are plenty of different aliens. Yeah,
there's the illegal alien if you've heard of. There's the
legal alien, the most famous one being sting in englishmen
in New York. Um. And there's a lot of other
words that get bandied about. I get the impression that
(09:44):
alien is not quite um acceptable as it once was.
It's more it's just immigrant now. But it's not an
offensive word. It's actually still a very um. It's a
it's a legitimate word to use. Yeah, you have a
resident alien who was you're not assistant or national, but
you have the right to live and work here, so
um or a nonresident alien is like if you have
(10:06):
a travel visa you're here for you know, you're an Australian.
You're allowed to live here for a little while. You're
an Australian let's face it. Um naturalized, not to be
confused with spiritualized, but naturalized means that you are a citizen.
But you you became a citizen after birth. You weren't
a born citizenymour right class act. Yes, she's married to,
(10:28):
by the way, Stacy Keach's brother, Todd Keach. Or was
it Stacy No, Stacy Keach's brother Todd. No, it's not Todd.
I can't remember. But that's her husband. He's a filmmaker
and he made the film about her becoming a citizen.
That's awesome. Yeah, well I started bring that up. So
basically they rode off about six months of their life. Yeah,
and he was he acted for a short time. He
(10:48):
was in vacation. Remember when the officer pulls him over
for killing the dog, dragging the dog. He that's him,
that's ke James Keach. Really yeah, okay, full circle. Yeah,
that's good stuff. Check all right. Um, there is the uh,
the end all be all of before being naturalized, the
lawful permanent resident, which is basically like kick back, relax,
(11:13):
get a job, have a drink, do whatever you want.
Just just start just apply something here there. But you're
allowed to live here for the rest of your life.
You're not necessarily a citizen. Don't try and vote, don't
you dare try and serve on a jury? Right, right?
But you know pretty much everything else is fine. Right,
So how do people get here? Well, you have to
(11:36):
apply for a visa. That's the first step in all
of these processes, is the old visa. Yeah, And and
it depends on where you are right where you go
apply uh yeah, or or where's what your status is? Right? Well, sure,
if you well, if you are in a country, let's
say you're Swedish and you're like, I am so sick
of this minimalist furniture crap. I want to get to
(11:58):
the US and then no crime and in the gorgeous
sceneries and the women that are blond and tall, Right,
I want to leave all that? Right? Okay? Um, and
moved to Detroit. Yes, you want to move to Detroit.
What you would do is you would go to the U.
S Consulate in Stockholm or wherever you find the closest
one to you in your country of origin and say
(12:20):
I want to move to Detroit, And after a few
minutes of them like thinking you're joking, finally convinced them
you're you're telling the truth. They're going to start the
process of applying for a visa, right, yeah, and this
has to become a permanent resident. This isn't like a
work visa or student visa. Those are all temporary, right.
This is if you want to stay here forever in Detroit. Uh.
(12:41):
And you but but this visa is not. This is
a This is basically your ticket to get from your
country to a port. Yeah. Not even in the United States. No,
which is confusing to me. And you're setting yourself up
for an almost immediate um let down because the consular
officer who's going to eventually interview you after you fill
(13:01):
out your application can say sorry, we we don't want
your type in Detroit. Yeah, or they could interview and
say great, and then you could have another awkward encounter
when you get to the port of entry because they
don't have to let you in either. No, the the
the the port authority agent can be like, no, no,
I don't really like the looks of you. I don't
like your mustache. I don't like that cable n sweater.
(13:24):
Go back to sweeten. I hate Ikia yeah is that Swedish? Okay?
I always I think it's Swiss for some reason. Everything
over there that's over here Swedish. Okay, So, uh, let's
say you do get here to the port of entry.
They will ask you a few questions when you get
to that port of entry, like where you're from, what
do you want to do here? Is anyone sponsoring you?
(13:46):
Do you have family here? Or that kind of thing? Right?
And um, there are different kinds of visas. I get
the impression that there's the like, wink wink, nudge, nudge,
let the Swede in, he wants to go to Detroit,
no criminal background, just let him in type of visa
down to the um, we're not entirely certain that this
guy is not a criminal visa so like really scrutinized him. Right. Yeah.
(14:09):
They give out four hundred and eighty thousand permanent resident
visas every year. That's for family. Yeah, yeah, if you
want to join a family member that's in the country. Right, sorry, Right,
So you maybe you get married to an American Joe
or something like that during the war, sure, um, or
(14:29):
you're you have dual citizenship. You're because you're you were
born somewhere with two different parents, for parents from two
different countries. So you have dual citizenship. You chose the
other country. Now you want to move to the US
and your parent lives here, that's probably pretty easy, especially
again with the economics if you're twenty one and unmarried,
(14:50):
because you're going to come over here, probably make babies
with an American girl, so you're gonna take care of her,
and you are going to get a good job, so
you're going to spend money raising your or kid here,
and you are going to do nothing but be an
economic driver rather than a drain. Yes, we'll put so
if you let's say you do have a family member here, Uh,
(15:10):
you need to prove your relationship. UM. I would guess
beyond just saying I promise you it's my father, and uh,
you need like you have to have an affida affidavit
of support UM that says that you can support this
person at a hundred and above the poverty line, which
is like nineteen grand. It's not much, basically saying you're
(15:32):
you're not going to be a drain on the system.
You'll barely eat by if nothing else, but as long
as you can eat by, as long as you can
eat buy, then it's got to get approved by the
U s C I S. Yes. Again, the the kind
of the bureaucratic arm of immigration right right, then the
Department of State checks to see if a visa number
is available, Uh, if you might already be in the US,
(15:55):
so you can apply to have your status change to
that that awesome lawful permanent resident. It after you get
a number, or if you're outside and you get a number,
you go to the US to where they tell you
to go. You go to the consulate and and finish
the process there in Detroit, right and and no in
in your country still or outside. So basically the whole
(16:17):
key to immigration is is down the middle. Whether you're
doing this outside the country or inside the country, there's
basically two different sets of you know, it's like a
choose your own adventure book. Right. If you're inside the US,
you know, turn to page thirty two and then you know,
apply for lawful permanent resident status. If you're if you're
(16:37):
still in Sweden, go to page twelve and go to
the consulate. It really does get a little convoluted. I
don't I don't think they make it hard on purpose,
but I think you just hit we should totally see
o A. This is in no way legal advice to
anybody who is listening to US in Australia or Sweden especially. Um,
we're just using you as an example. If you actually
(16:59):
do to immigrate to the US, we hope this inspires
you to do it lawfully and to go contract and
immigration attorney, or at least do a lot of heavy
lifting research on you know, um, Department of State, the
Department of Homeland, securities websites or the very least by
Immigration for dummies, or I just don't guarantee is out there.
(17:21):
Just do something in addition to listening to this show,
That's what I say. Or if you do, just listen
to this show and you you become a lawful citizen
from it. We want an email from you about that.
Yeah in frienness on Facebook. Yeah that's so cheap. Uh
So where are we here? The family sponsorship? Should we
(17:42):
go through that? The preference? Yeah, we talked about the preferences, right,
so let's let's spell them out. Um, provided your at
least twenty one parents, spouses and unmarried children of US citizens,
you don't have to wait, like if they are citizens,
you don't have to wait for that visa number. No,
you can if you're if you're visas approved or if
your petition for alien relative is approved. Um, you can
(18:05):
just come on over and become a lawful permanent resident, right, Yeah,
and that's if they're a citizen. If you're relative is
a citizen. Right. If one of your relatives has made
it over and has become a lawful permanent resident, Uh,
then you can start to come over to But there's
there's different preferences for that. It's a spouse or an
unmarried soner daughter again probably of twenty one, of twenty
(18:28):
one years of age or older. Yeah, that's first preference
and not too old, right. The second preferences spouses of
lawful permanent residents. Uh, they're under one under twenty one,
unmarried children and unmarried children of lawful permanent residences I'm sorry, residents,
third preference married children of citizens, and fourth preference siblings
(18:50):
of adult citizens. Wow, yeah, siblings of adult citizens. It's like, yes,
you go vis left over, you really need your brother
were here? I mean really, Yeah, you're thirty and you
gotta have your brother over here, right or you're seventy
you know, so yeah, it gets a little convoluted for sure. Um,
chuckers there have been. There are other ways to do this.
(19:14):
If you were the first of your family and you
are starting on the path to citizenship, right, Um, there's
some other ways to get in the country to get
the ball rolling. Number one. One of the best ways
to do this is through a the Diversity Lottery program.
That means that you are living in a country where
(19:34):
immigration to the US is really not that bulky. Not
a lot of people are not not a lot of
Swedes coming over to the US. Necessarily they probably get
shot at it um. And so the State Department sets
aside fifty five thousand visas visa numbers every year, and
actually a hundred and ten thousand is what they really
set aside because a lot of people don't complete the process.
(19:57):
But they basically say, hey, you want to come to
the US. Not too many people are coming over from
your country. We we are the great melting pot over here.
We're missing a little bit of your spice. So how
about applying huh and um. The Kentucky Consular Bureau is
responsible for this. And in two thousand eleven, Chuck, did
you know that nine New Caledonians and one Lichtenstinian among
(20:20):
the where among the who came over. Wow, and one
person from the French Arctic lands. I don't even know
that is uh. And if you're if you're lucky enough
to hit this lottery, Josh, you can live here and
work here forever and bring your family. You can bring
your family. You can bring your unmarried children. They're under
(20:41):
twenty one, they're one, then they're on their own. Right,
you become a lawful permanent resident who who can become
a citizen under that. But it's like a huge not
just like uh, it's like the express lane. Yeah, you're
in there. Another way to do it is through employment, right,
didn't know about this one or the next one. No,
(21:02):
this is that. This is how we got the Nazis
over here to start our rocket program through Operation paper Clip. Okay,
immigration through employment, gotcha? Yeah. So yeah, that's when the
employer kind of sponsors you and they submit a labor
certification requests certification like that. I like that was the
other one you said to the residences and I'm all
(21:24):
over the place out of fated. Yeah, I'm all thick
tongue today. Um, an honor of you. So you submit
that to the Department of Labor. Uh. If it's granted.
Then the employer then files for a petition for alien
worker considered by the U S U S S C
(21:44):
I S again. Then if that's approved, then you can
get the immigrant a visa number from the State Department
and basically say go to work. But that's reading the
little qualifications there, the like the types of workers, the preferences. Yeah,
so you've got um EB one which is priority workers,
(22:05):
which is we need a rocket program to get to
the moon fast. Um e B two is professionals with
advanced degrees of persons with exceptional abilities. Basically, if you
live in Bangalore, India right now, that's you. You're coming
over here, no problems. Um EB three skilled or professional workers.
I think a lot of people, a lot of yes,
(22:26):
a lot of roofers UM made their way into Florida.
I imagine through that without immigration status. And there's EB
four special immigrants. I have no idea. I can't even
begin to think of what kind of job that would be.
We need someone on the inside, if you know, if
you work for the State Department, let us know what
a special immigrant is. Yes, and then there is the
(22:48):
what what you could call the yellow brick road to citizenship. Yeah,
this is the the cherry on top. Basically, if you
have if you have some money you want to throw
around and invest in in the American dream, you can
buy you can buy your visa. It's ten thousand investor
visas every year made available. And uh, you have to
there's you know, a few different ways to do it.
(23:09):
You have to prove, basically that you're gonna make an
investment in a commercial endeavor that's approved and that you're
going to create ten ten or more jobs through this endeavor. Right,
and this is half of those half of those ten
thou investor visas are set aside for this pilot project
called um OH Regional Centers, which is basically it's a
(23:29):
rural area struggling business. It's it's a part of the
US that needs some investment, needs some new businesses. Right Detroit,
here we go again. Uh. You can also get that
same visa, Josh by starting a business or purchasing a
business that's not doing so hot. Uh. You can also Yeah,
if you purchase the business. You can't just purchase that.
(23:50):
You have to show that you can inflate its revenues
by and keep everybody on staff, right, or the golden
ticket if you just have a lot of money, if
you have half a million dollars, you can say I'm
gonna invest that in a rural area, or if you
have a million dollars, you can just invest in some
other venture anything. And and the best part is if
(24:12):
you invest that million dollars correctly, not only do you
buy your visa, you might make a substantial amount of
money back on your investment. So that Yeah, if you've
got a lot of dough, then you can become an
American citizen. Sack, come on in, spend your money, right, Yeah,
And I have to say, I know you don't print
out the pictures. You're missing out on this one. There
(24:33):
are some cool maps that are like inflated and and
exaggerated and anemic and colorful based on based on immigration
to countries. Interesting. And then there's also one where refugees are.
It's really neat. I recommend going and checking this. South
and Central America are skinny. America islated is cool? Yeah,
(24:55):
so so is the Middle East? Very very big? How
is it? Huh uh? So let's talk about asylum. This
is it's pretty convoluted as well. Actually, yeah, if you
remember one thing from this podcast, A person seeking asylum
is called in Assili. That's it. Can we just stop there?
(25:19):
You know what asylum is, Josh, it's obviously it's when
you're protected, um from if you're fleeing persecution from your country.
You can come here and say I need asylum because
I live in Sudan. Well, do you remember in the
Rules of War podcasts we were talking about World War
two changed everything basically brought the whole world together, uh,
to say we need to come up with some like
(25:39):
rules not just for war, but for the Universal Declaration
of Human Rights that was passed through ratified UM. Countries
of the world said as a human being, uh, people
have the right to seek and enjoy in other countries
asylum for persecution. It is basically like it's some horrible
(26:03):
stuffs going on over here. You have to take these
people if they come to your country. That that's a
basic human right to be free from that. Because there's
other parts of the world. Yeah, yeah, or at the
very least in the case of the United States, you
you can go to another country that we have a
deal with an asylum deal, like hey, you might like Canada, right,
Not only that, if they yeah, if they come to
(26:24):
the U S and they're like, we I'm seeking asylum.
We can be like, you're approved for Canada and we
can just take you there, like we'll give you a
bus ticket even But yeah, it's it's kind of funny
because we have asylum treaties with other countries. It's interesting. Yeah,
there are no quotas or limits on on this kind
of visa. You just have to demonstrate a well founded
(26:47):
fear for your life basically, yeah, of persecution in his
or her home country, right, and you make that case
um at a point of entry. So basically, if you're
seeking asylum, here's the difference between in ASSYLI and a
refugee again inside or outside of the country. So let's
say that you are fleeting fleeing Sudan and you've made
(27:08):
it to Egypt, right, You're like, I don't really want
to stay in Africa any longer. I really want to
seek I want to I want to seek asylum in
the US, but I'm doing it from Egypt. Your refugee,
if you leave Egypt and come to the Port of
Savannah and say I want asylum, you're in Asia. It's
just where you're doing that. But it's the same thing
(27:30):
for the same reasons. You're being persecuting your home country
and you're seeking comfort and freedom from persecution in another country.
Got it. You know you've heard of the is it
the Lost Boys of Sudan? The child Soldiers? Why am
I thinking? Is that the Lost Boys of Sudan? Right?
It sounds right? Yeh. One of those guys works at
Twains Indicator. He's a former child soldier, I think so.
(27:56):
And he was just very happy to be bussing tables
at Twains. I'm sure. I mean everyone loved this guy.
I don't know if he's still there. There has been
a couple of years since I've been there, but yeah,
it was really neat. I mean he was you know,
the news stories all over the place about these guys,
and he worked there and was one of the U
was the word I'm looking for. People loved him. He
(28:17):
wasn't a mascot, but he was. He was almost like
people would come to Twains and like everyone said high
to him and and he was. He's very nice guy.
Mascot's not the right word. Save it for the refugee podcast, um,
because we're talking about asylum here. Yes, So, Chuck, if
you're fleeing persecution. That's kind of specific. You can't be like,
(28:39):
no one in my home country likes me. Right, that's
not persecution, right, No, no, no, it's um persecution based
on race, politics, nationality, religion, membership in a social group.
So if like the US turned on the nights at Columbus,
they could go to like Europe and seek asylum. Or
if you're in a book club. Yeah, I'm not sure
(29:02):
what that means. Okay, Um, there are two types of asylum, Josh,
here's affirmative and defensive asylum. And from what I get,
affirmative is when you arrive here at a portive entry.
You within a year of being here, you submit your application,
it's filed, and you have an interview. They call it
non adversarial. It basically means doesn't take place in court. Right,
(29:26):
It's gonna take place in a friendly office and everybody's
gonna be smiling and uh, they're not detained. You can
live here while your case is being considered. Um, but
you can't work, isn't that right? I believe that is right.
And actually, if you do this the right way, like
the US is set up, but we actually have an
Act from nine called the Refugee Act and if anybody
(29:49):
can ask for asylum no matter what your alien status is,
and we actually have mechanations, mechanization mechanisms will go with
that one in place, um to kind of hasten this process.
So if you do this correctly, you can have this
whole thing buttoned up in sixty days and be kicking
back in Detroit. Yeah. If it never goes to uh
(30:10):
before a judge and it just stays nice and affirmative
and non adversarial, yeah, then you're you're in like Flint
in no time. Right. So basically what you want to
do is within a year of landing in the US,
you want to go to a port and ask for asylum. Yeah.
I would do that on day two. Why not after
I've gone out and like, I seen what nightlife? That's
the offer. And then there's defensive asylum, and that is
(30:34):
when you are you were in danger of being deported
and you're trying to get asylum. Yes, so that's not
like you came here and you filed all the correct paperwork.
That means they're saying, now you need to go home,
and you're like, no, I don't want to go right.
That means like, if you waited two years, yeah, and
you go, they're gonna be like, oh, well now you're
now you're in defensive asylum, dummy, Why don't you do
(30:56):
this a year ago? Right? Or if you weren't granted asylum,
you can still try and get in through defensive asylum,
right if you've gone through If you went through affirmative
asylum and we're denied that, your next step would be
going through defensive asylum, which is adversarial, meaning it's in
a court. Everybody's a little stern talking to you, a
little mean, there's lawyers and all that stuff. Um, and
(31:20):
we should say here, if you were caught without correct documentation,
if you um forfeited your alien status anything like that. Uh,
it doesn't just apply to illegal immigrants. It applies to
illegal immigrants who can again demonstrate a quote credible fear
of persecution or torture. This is asylum. It just applies
(31:41):
to those people. Yes, right, Yes, and then there's expedited
removal chuck. Yeah, that's if you're busted basically with no
documentation coming in coming in and you're just like, oh,
I just thought you needed the plane ticket. Is that
not good enough? Here's my luggage receipt and actually this
is pretty cool. The immigration officials, which I imagine includes
(32:06):
the customs UM agency, right, yeah, uh, which we did
a podcast something, didn't we um, They have to ask
four questions of anyone they catch, uh trying to make
it into the US illegally. Right. They have to ask, oh,
why did you leave your home country? Uh? Why or
(32:29):
do you have any fear concerned about being returned to
your home country? Uh? Would you be harmed if you
were returned to your home country? Do you have any questions?
Anything else you'd like to add? It's actually in your
Uh so it basically anybody who wants to seek asylum
can say I'm seeking asylum, and that's gonna start off
this process. You're not They're not gonna be like, no, yeah, anyone.
(32:53):
If you come here and you want asylum, you're at
least gonna be able to speak with someone about that.
You're not just gonna be turned away at the door.
But if you busted getting in, you're going straight to
defensive asylum. If you make it through and then go
to a port right and say I'm seeking asylum, they'll
that'll be affirmative asylum. People like I was, are probably like,
(33:15):
what so confusing? Yeah, just go to the port and
say asylum and that'll that'll kick start something interesting. That'll
start the process for sure. Uh So we're not gonna
talk too much about refugees, but um, the two thousand
nine World Refugee Survey puts that number at about thirteen
point six million worldwide refugees. And in uh last year, God,
(33:39):
that's up a lot. Because this article was written I
think in like two thousand seven and Silverman did you
notice Jacob Silverman made a Bruno reference. Um, he said
that in two thousand and five there were nine point
five million UM refugees at the beginning of that year.
We're up to thirteen million, that's what it said. Wow.
(34:00):
And uh, last year, the US admitted sixty thousand refugees
and the next closest was Canada at about eleven thousand,
and then the ASSES said about nine thousand. Wow, there's
refugees from Canada. No refugees. That Canada said once you
come on here to the Great right North, we'll let
(34:20):
you know. They admitted the refugee. And that's you know,
refugees are looking for at the very least temporary protected status.
And that's when you're like, all right, we'll take care
of you for now and then we'll work this whole
thing out in a minute. But you're safe. Is that
all on? Refugees? And listen? Do you do you want
to do a podcast? Dot? Yeah? Yeah, let's do one later.
(34:41):
All right, Well, let's let's move on to the the
sexiest business of all of this. Yeah, controversy illegal immigration. Yeah,
it's hard to say, obviously how many there are. The
numbers are kind of all over, but the Department of
Home Homeland Security said that, uh, there were ten point
eight million last year, which is down a full million
(35:02):
from O eight and that's the largest drop in thirty years. Yeah. Well,
in the middle of a pretty big recession. Times are
tough here. I don't really think about that. That's exactly
why I would still think that it would be better
than being in Warez. Well, I'm glad you brought up
Warez because I had a question about that about se
you Dodd Warez. Do you like my Spanish? Yeah? But
(35:24):
I was talking about war is the place, But go ahead,
that's what I'm talking about that too. Oh Is that
the full name of it? Yeah, it means Warrez City.
Like I wasn't talking about see you, Dodd Warez. I
was talking about Warez City. I don't know who that
dude is. But think about it, Like, I think more
than six thousand people have died in July. This past
(35:45):
July hit the six thousand mark. Not have died, we're killed, Okay,
we're killed in war Is alone since January two eight
because of the real deal drug war. Right, So, if
you're fleeing that across the US border, what's how is
how can you not seek asylum? Is it that you
(36:07):
could conceivably go south and deeper into your home country
and be relatively safe. Yeah, I don't know. I was
hoping you would. Yeah, I don't know if asylum is
just for Yeah, I mean that would definitely constitute a
fear of fearing for your life, for sure, your persecution
for sure. That's a good point. But that is that
(36:28):
that's kind of posed a problem for people in Warez
fleeing north, you know, because the US is right there.
Warez is in the middle of a real drug war
and it's a very dangerous place right now. Maybe they
don't think asylum, they just think, you know, across Yeah, illegally,
and so should clue him in. Yeah, and before we
(36:49):
were you were talking about the controversy with illegal immigration,
and we mentioned the recession. It seems like they're there.
That's pretty much. I don't think too many people have
problems with peaceful refugees seeking asylum in the US. It's
when economics are brought into it that will go nuts. Right, Um,
that always goes back to money, right, it does. But
(37:11):
I think first we should kind of we're we're up here, like, oh, well,
they're coming in down south and the border, right, Um,
we should probably point out that for a lot of
people who are making these border crossings illegally, it's extremely dangerous, right.
Silverman who wrote this um this article cited three thousand
people who have died since trying to make the trek
(37:36):
between the Mexico California border Mexico California. Yeah, since we
since we erected the fence. They're interesting. Yeah. Um. Also
coyotes who you pay to get you across the border,
especially if you're coming out of warrez Um. They basically
double as drug transporters. They use illegal immigrants as mules
(37:58):
basically like well, here, carry some drugs and I won't
charge you, and the person will say, well, no, I'll
just pay you, and the guy pulled out a gun
and goes, no, you're going to carry these drugs. So
these people are not just getting busted coming into the country.
They're getting busted with tons of dope on them and
they're going to prison. Well, and then that gives the
argument to the native of saan See, they're just coming
(38:19):
in here bringing drugs when it may be traced back
to this one drug runner. It is making these hundreds
of people smuggling their drugs, and I think there's a
lot of confusion going on. But yes, it's it's not
good down there right now. No, it's not so. Uh.
Illegal immigrants, as most people know, a lot of times
will come to this country, join up with some of
their family who may be here already legally and do
(38:43):
jobs that Americans don't want to do for low wages.
That happens a lot of times. It's not legal, you're
not supposed to hire these people, but it happens. Yeah,
it wasn't there. Um, I think Colbert did it. There's
a a group in New York State who we're offering
this farm hand like I think fruit harvesting job to
(39:06):
anybody who wanted it, any American born American, you wanted it,
and no one took him up on it. Yeah, well
that kind of goes uh to the guest worker program,
which is something George w was in favor of and
that has not been approved, but it's been bandied about
a lot. And basically that means if you can't find
any American to do a job that you want, you know,
(39:27):
to hire someone for, then hire a foreigner for about
you know, to be a term limit like three years,
um track them through the system, make them pay some
taxes while they're here, and then give them an incentive
to return home, like, hey, we'll even give you retirement
benefits which you can collect in Warez after your term
(39:49):
is done, after you've worked for three years. And I
didn't know this at a little digging. There was actually
a program from ninety two to nineteen sixty four called
called the Bracero program that Roosevelt put in, and it
was basically that it was we need a lot of labor,
so let's get some of the Mexican people up here
to do this work. And it was a nice exchange.
But in the middle of this and then we were like,
(40:10):
everybody get out. Well it was till nineteen sixty four.
But in nineteen fifty four, in the middle of this program,
the I n S ran a program no lie called
Operation wet Back What That was the name of it what?
And their goal was to round up one thousand aliens
per day and get them out and in the end
more than one million Mexican nationals. We're taken back to
(40:34):
Mexico courtesy of the US, and not just taken back
to Mexico, but like eight hundreds to a thousand miles
deep into Mexico to discourage them coming back to the US.
Was this program headed up by Don Johnson, No man,
but that was the name of it. I mean you
can google it. So anyway, that's part of our our
lovely history to here. Wow. But um, until the guest
(40:56):
worker program is for real, then it's just an idea
that some people say might not be a bad one. Yeah, Like,
if they're here working, why not see if we can.
Because the reason a lot of people get mad, we
should explain it's like this is fun, I'm watching you
tap dance is a they're not paying taxes is what
the people against US say and be they most times
(41:16):
are sending money straight back to their homes. Yeah, so
they're not even putting money into the economy. Remember when
we were in Guatemala, we found out that tourism number two,
agriculture number three, remittances was the number one driver of
their economy while we were there. Unbelievable. That takes a
lot of people off, right, But I think that that's
(41:38):
kind of a flash point, um. For I don't think
it encapsulates the whole thing. Is something the beginning and
the end of the problem with immigration, of course not right,
um chuck. A lot of people say, you want a
guess worker program path to citizenship that is amnesty, and
we don't do that in the US, right, Yeah, actually
(42:01):
we do. We've given amnesty to it a lot of people. Uh.
In nineteen Uh, Fidel Castro opened up the Merrielle Port
Havannah and a hundred and twenty five thousand Cubans said
see you later and showed up on mass in Miami. Yeah,
amnesty seems to have gone in big waves here. Yeah,
(42:23):
which is what a lot of people say. That's why
we shouldn't do it, because it just encourages people to
come here illegally in hopes that there will be another
big amnesty. Right. It rewards illegal behavior, It's federally mandated
rewards for illegal behavior. I totally understand that argument. Um,
it's a slap in the face to all the people
who came here legally and went through this hard, kind
(42:44):
of grueling process legally. Um. And you know all the
other problems as well. Um. But I guess my point
is we have given amnesty to people before and hasn't
been the end of the country. Yeah, you know what
I'm saying. It's good point. Um. And by the way,
that that Cuban migration in that's what Scarface starts out.
(43:06):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And the delt Force came to
Atlanta actually because a lot of the immigrants were moved
to federal prisons just to hold for a while until
the government figured out what to do with them. There
was an uprising in the Atlanta federal pen attention and
the Delts Force showed up to quell it. W Well,
that's kind of what happened in scar Face, right when
there are a big uprising on their internment camp. Yes,
(43:29):
great movie. So obviously we well we didn't really talk
about the border Patrol. We could do a whole podcast
on that, but yeah, we did with customs. Yeah, we
talked about that. We can't say that that that virtual
border fence that was controversial and full of issues, technical
issues and delays. Obama put it into that in March
(43:51):
and said, this thing is we could use our money
better than this. It's not working. But there is a fence.
There's five and eighty miles of vents along the border,
pedestrian and vehicle fencing. So I mean they're they're working
on it. I don't know. I mean, they can clearly
never build a fence along the entire border, but the
(44:11):
Minutemen Civil Devent Defense Corps is trying to do it
on their own, not very successfully though they talk a lot,
but apparently they did a report on their fence and
they basically said it's a cattle fence. I once interviewed
the guy, the guy who founded that. I can't remember
his name right now, but I talked to him on
the phone, and you just start him talking and he'll talk.
(44:34):
It was very interesting, very interesting conversation to just basically
sit there and take notes on well, I mean, I
guess I see what they're trying to prove. But they
were you know, their goal was a ten mile stretch
of fence, and come on, ten miles. I mean, you
can walk that in an hour and go around it
ten miles an hour. You're gonna have to be jogging
running okay, two hours? Okay, what do you walk about?
(44:55):
Four miles? I walk about a mile and a half
an hour because I stop a lot and lay down. Well,
you're a stroller? What else, dude? Um, well, that's it.
An amnesty. You want to talk about some more highlights
of amnesty. About a million Nicaraguans were given amnesty through
the Central American Relief Act. UH hundred and twenty five
(45:16):
thousand Haitian refugees were granted amnesty on mass and all
of that is because of the Night six Immigration Reform
and Control Act, which gave amnesty to about two point
eight million illegal immigrants. And the president who did that one,
Ronald Reagan, ooka there. Yeah, it's funny how things were.
He was such a dichotomous president. Man. Yeah, okay, I
(45:42):
got nothing else. I don't either. I think that's the
end of immigration. We don't ever have to talk about
it again. Yeah, we can do refugees. We can do
naturalization at some point. Yeah, we could. Well, just how
about this, We'll just play selected clips from Jane Seymour's
naturalization documentary and just be like, oh wow, alright, God,
(46:02):
that's something, and then we'll, uh, we'll make sure to
get a lot of you crying. Okay, so Chuck. If
anybody wants to learn more about immigration, very dense article
well written by one Jacob Silverman who used to work here.
You can type in immigration that's two MS in the
handy search bar at how stuff works dot com, which
means it's time now or listener mail Josh, I'm gonna
(46:28):
call this, uh shout out requests that we don't grant often,
but we are in this case. Oh, this is a
big one that we can pay for these now. No
in Karmen, we do, guys. My name is Eric Rrickson.
I've been listening to your show for some time now.
I was actually shown them by my friend. Uh, how
would you pronounce I l O in a Elona? Alona? Elona?
(46:51):
It's like Alona, which is why I'm actually emailing you
guys for her birthday this year. I'm trying to do
something really, really special I've been emailing her favorite actors
and musicians to see if they could send an autograph
or a short message. So far, I've gotten messages back
from Andrew Bird, who I'm a fan of, and Priscilla
On who was another singer who I don't know, and
they both got back. So I felt that's the only
(47:13):
reason I did this. I thought, well, we can't be
the jerks who don't do it. How many of these
we're gonna get now, No, don't bother. We're gonna do
like a happy birthdays figure. Now. I figured it'd be
really awesome if you two can maybe give a shout
out to her and the listener mail sections. So that's
what we're doing here. Eric, would mean a lot to
me if you could do this. It doesn't matter when
he didn't tell us when her birthday was. I'm just
(47:33):
hoping she doesn't listen to it before they give for
the rest of the things, and he still doesn't tell
me when a birthday is. So we're ruining this for you,
Alona that I'm very sorry. If you get back to
me sometime, it would be super awesome. And uh yeah,
I just want to tell you why. Alona means so
much to me. So that is very sweet. Eric with
(47:56):
the c K, and I hope, I hope this gets
in a minute whatever you're seekings. And Eric with the
c K, you can't trust. Eric's a speller names of
the C and a KA. It's one to the other.
You should just throw a T on the end of that.
Just he's very middle of the road. I'll bet so
you can see your sign, but I can also see
your side. I'll bet this immigration podcast just made his
head explode. Well, he clearly needn't. One of them are
(48:18):
gonna get through this, so they'll just think that we
blew them off. Well, thanks a lot um. If you
want to say happy birthday to somebody, apparently it's the
the border is open, everybody's streaming through. Let us know
why we should say happy birthday to somebody. Wrap it
up in an email and send it to stuffed podcast
(48:38):
at how stuff works dot com for more on this
and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works
dot com. To learn more about the podcast, click on
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The how Stuff Works iPhone app has arrived. Download it
today on iTunes. Brought to you by the reinvented two
(49:02):
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