How LARP Works

Dressing up in duct tape-covered cardboard suit of armor and pretending you're an elf warrior for a weekend at a state park might sound like a pretty embarrassing thing to do, but that probably just means you've never done it. Join Josh and Chuck as they explore the imaginative world of LARP - live action role playing games.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to you Stuff you should Know from house Stuff
Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and um, he's
got duct tape over some cardboard that he's wearing on
his chest, which means that this stuff you should know

(00:23):
the Lark podcast or all right, I'm just gonna say
that like every five minutes. Well, and this will be
a fun one larb. All right, I'm not gonna do
that ever again. Yeah, I think we should just call this, um,
Dungeons and Dragons follow up, UM, D and D two
nerdier than you thought it could be. You know. Um,

(00:48):
some people, as is written in the end of this article,
believe that the in the introduction of Dungeon and Dragons
was the that's the citation for the beginning of Larpe. Yeah,
that makes sense. It's just like kind of one step further,
you know, the people that really get into D and
D and sort of role play at the table. That
makes sense to me that that grew into let's just

(01:09):
take this out to the park across the street, you know,
or hang out in front of a movie theater when
the New Star Wars is gonna premiere. Yeah, I guess
that's LARPing in a way, isn't it. Well? Do you
remember the wizard that came by for that Triumph, Yeah,
when Triumph went to the Star Wars premiere. Yeah, I've
seen that guy in New York, the wizard. If he's

(01:29):
not a LARPer, I don't know what is. I think
that's he's just a wizard. So we should we should
probably tell people who don't know what LARPE is what
larpe is. LARPE stands for live action role playing and,
as you probably guess from context, UM is usually fantasy based,
sometimes sci fi, sometimes goth But basically it is everything

(01:50):
that a D and D game is or a role
playing game is, but actually physically acted out by people
who are dressed up as their characters, who are like
going through physical motions. Um, it's real battles, right, and
it is. It's because of that, because you're actually doing
these things, it's considered much more immersive than just an
average role playing game. Sure. Uh, and we should mention

(02:11):
that throughout this. We're gonna be um. There was an
interview conducted for this article. This is written by Tracy Wilson. UM.
Stuff you missed in history class, and she interviewed someone
named Lari zoel Kosky. I did say that, you say that,
and she Larry, I guess is local. And I think
she has even invented her own larpe game. So what

(02:32):
she did is called King's Gate. Yeah, so Tracy interviewed her.
So we're gonna be using bits and pieces from Lauri. Um,
so we thank her in abstincia. Um okay, So yeah,
I looked up King's Gate. It was purchased by Red
Button Productions. She actually sold it, yeah, and they brought
her on as the creative director. But um, I don't see,

(02:54):
I don't, I don't, I don't see like that was
in two thousands six. I believe I don't see her
um her name anywhere in regards to that, And I
don't see King's Gate. It's much more like archived now,
so I think it's like kind of had its day
or whatever. But hey, she still catched that check for
two seventy. I mean, I imagine, like making money from
creating a larp game is pretty unusual and rare. I

(03:18):
might look into that, actually, because when I was reading this,
I was thinking I could create a LARP game. I
might not want to play it, Yeah, but I could
totally create one. Have you seen some of like the
like the rules and all that, and like how granular
it gets. Yeah, I mean it's not something you rush into.
In fact, I think Laurie said she spent about a
year or a year and a half creating King's Gate

(03:39):
and she even used existing rules. Yeah. Sure, what you
can do if you're creating a game, you can lease
rules from other game crews. We've gotten way. Let's let's yeah,
need to back this larp truck up. So you mentioned
that she creates this game like a larp is an
actual game. It's basically like creating a new universe and

(04:00):
saying the new universe is going to be at the
state Park on these three days, and if you come,
you either have to be a character that you've designed
or that have been improved by me, the game designer, um,
and you're you're going to follow the rules of this
universe and things are going to happen within this universe
and that will be our larp. Yeah. And like you said,

(04:22):
the universe isn't something that you can you think, well,
how hard could it be to sketch that out over
the course of like a week, but it gets really
grant new, like you said, and you've got to think
of everything, like what does race mean in this world?
Is there electricity? Can people read um? Or what what
are the classes like in the difference between the classes?

(04:42):
What kinds of weapons do they have? Um? Is their magic? Answer? Yes? Yeah,
always magic, that's the answer. UM. And like you said,
you can eat they. I guess they have existing rule
systems out there that you can nick from, or you
can make a combination of that in your own, or
you can just make up all your own rules, right,
which that has to be so involved, Yeah, because I

(05:03):
think one thing you don't want to do is invite
fifty nerds with foam rubber swords out to the park
and have unanswered questions, right or a dissatisfying game, you know,
like how could you not think of this? Like can
they read or can't they read? Um? And a lot
of it follows the same like rules that you'll find

(05:24):
in like a a like a traditional role playing game
like Dungeon and Dragons, Like there's armor classes, there's hit points,
there's things that determine since the people who are, like
you said, engaging in combat don't actually die, you have
to keep up with a way of simulating their death right.
And so there's there's rules, the intuitive rules that you

(05:46):
can just kind of come up with just from playing
Dungeons and Dragons and being aware of that kind of thing.
They apply to this too, but I think it is
a little more even more granular, because you have you
have not just the rules, but you have the game itself.
So there are three different uh types of not types
of people, but different categories of character. I guess that

(06:09):
you can participate. You can just like a D and D,
you can be the game master um or because LARPA
is a bigger, more immersive time and sense of thing.
It's probably just not run by one person that you're
probably you might have a plot committee and be on
you know, like a group with a group of folks
trying to like sus this out basically, right, Yeah, exactly,

(06:30):
especially if players break off into smaller groups and you
kind of know what's going on, like mutiny. Uh. There
are non player characters in PCs UH, and that I
wonder what the draw is for that. Those are people
that actually aren't advancing in the game or playing to win.
Tracy gave the example of like you might be the

(06:52):
the innkeeper or the bartender in the pub that tells you,
you know, don't go that way, that the dragon is
that way, right, that's probably you're doing. That's like a
LARPer who has a drinking problem and doesn't like to
move around too muss, so they just sit in the
tavern and wait for people to come by and make
up stories about you know, bandits or whatever. I guess
the answer is it's the same person who would want

(07:14):
to or not the same person, but the same idea
behind someone who doesn't mind playing the tree in the play,
you know, as opposed to trying out for the lead role.
Like we need our bit players and we need our stars.
I think. Also, probably if you have a Larpe game, um,
and so like an actual three day weekend at the
park will be a game. Uh, and then those games

(07:36):
might take place over some sort of um, consecutive order
in the time that's in this Larpe world, um, and
that will form a campaign. But if you have like
a game like King's Gate that the lady who was
interviewed for this created, right, um, you're you're gonna have
kind of an organization of people who help you carry

(07:59):
out this game in real life, and I imagine they
probably play nonplayer characters. You think that's who I would think,
does it? That makes sense? You know, they're almost they're
almost like administrators of this right. They're not game masters
per se, but they're like the game master's right hand people.
They still like sit and break bread with the game master,
which I think some people like being the inner circle. Maybe.

(08:22):
All right, So then you have the player characters, and
those are they can develop new skills, they can learn things,
they're trying to win. They're actually a part of the story.
I'm sorry. The NPCs are part of the story. The
PCs are experiencing that story, right. So, like, if you
are the game designer or the game master and you
created this particular game or campaign that you're sending people

(08:44):
out on, it's not just a free for all, like you,
if you need to keep the narrative moving along, you
will create like that bartender character, right, So that person
is there and they're going to be there when these
player characters come for the weekend um or there the
bandits that the bartender warns everybody about, they're gonna be

(09:05):
out there in the woods they're non player characters, but
they're part of the game. So anybody who's not part
of the designed game that is playing and has a
foam sword, that's a player character. I think I would
like to be like a wild card NPC, like the
right hand man to the gamemaster. And if the game
master was like, oh crap, I forgot like no one
knows how to get to the eerie Cave, I need

(09:26):
a need in an innkeeper, and I could just like
get in the character all right, I'm an innkeeper. What
do you need? What do you need from me? Innkeeper? Boom?
What do they call that? Is that character acting? Yeah,
i'd be I'd be a character actor. What if the
gamemasters like, crap, we didn't get enough bolognay for all
these people and they're gonna be upset come month's time.

(09:46):
Can you go get some more? I can do that.
I can be a bologna guy. Um. And you mentioned
the game the game itself. UM. A game session can
last a few hours, a few days, and that can
or cannot be, or may or may not be part
of a large your campaign. From what I saw, games
typically last like three days over a weekend. I think

(10:07):
the campaign thing is kind of cool though. Yeah, like
you you you have your battles over a weekend and
then you take that back and apply that to your
risk board or you know, your whatever maps you've drawn
up in the world, and like, all right, now we
know that, uh, this territory is now owned by whoever
the victor was. And what does that mean because now

(10:27):
they're advancing towards this group or something. Right. Yeah, from
the interaction of the players and the game both change.
Like the players. A player might die, a player is
going to probably gain some experience points or maybe some
hit points or whatever, or a new weapon. Um the
game itself. Like if you created like a central monster

(10:49):
or something that needs to be killed, that monster may
be killed. So in this world that you created, that
monster no longer lives. So this this thing, it's it's
um dynamic, it's not static. It Yeah, another to evolve.
It's really cool. Have you seen Step Brothers? That movie?
No I haven't. The Larpe features heavily in that. It's

(11:10):
pretty funny and it doesn't know role models too. Oh yeah,
Step Brothers d c Riley and Will Ferrell. Right, if
I hadn't seen it, so I didn't know, no, no no, no, Yeah,
role models, that's what I meant. Yeah, yeah, he gets
his confidence at the end. Yeah, and apparently people get
their confidence from larp in in some cases. Um yeah,

(11:31):
I thought that movie was better then I thought it
was gonna be. And apparently David Wayne, the director, said
that that's his highest compliment for that movie is for
he said, people come up to me often and say
it was a lot better than about What's Gonna be. Yeah.
The way it was marketed was really like dumb and
low brow and it was just gonna be just a
dunce of a movie. But it had like a lot

(11:52):
of heart and thoughts to it, and there was a
lot of conflict and it was funny too, like if
you get a LARP game going with my At Walsh
and Ken Jiong, you're you're on the right track. Comedy
was in it, alright, So, um, Stepbrothers, what a dope.
I'm sure people were like, no Strothers. The great thing

(12:13):
is that they started their emails and then hopefully stop
mid sentence. Yeah, Stepbrothers funny too. The Catalina wine mixer, Um,
all right, so there are three like Catalina addressing no
cat the island of Catalina, the coast of l a um.
So there are three different types of games, three ways
you can play the game. There's a battle game, and

(12:34):
that's actually when dudes and ladies get out there. They're
fully armored up in their cardboard and plastic and they
someone gives a signal and they charge each other like
it's you know, uh, what was the mel Gibson Braveheart
and they you know, they beat each other about the

(12:55):
head with foam swords. Yeah, and like there's there's restrictions
on how to make what's what's called a boffer. It's
a um it's a larpe weapon. And typically it's anything
from like a sword to mace shield, um yeah, battle ax,
bow and arrow. But there's there's standards for it. Like

(13:15):
they usually start with, um, a piece of PVC or
a piece of bamboo. It's heavily padded and wrapped in
duct tape and then you know it's it's tricked out
to like be to look like a sword or to
look like a bone arrow or whatever, and um it
it doesn't do any damage, but it looks cool, especially

(13:37):
when you're like this is a pretense sword and it's
mine and I built it and I'm gonna kill you
with it. Yeah, what are them? What's that website? Tracy
recommended it was. I went and checked it out. It
was actually pretty good, so did I. It was called
Leucrane's Guide to Boffer's l U k r Ai n
Apostrophe s and it's you go, and it's got all
the weapons there that you could ever imagine and how

(13:57):
to make them, an advice and all that good stuf
of um. All right, So that's the battle game and
Dark Con is one of the most popular ones, and
that is an award winning documentary as well. And I
checked out the trailer for that just to see it.
Did you see that They kind of echoed Braveheart, you know,
in the way they shot it, but it's, you know,

(14:18):
it is what it is. It's kind of funny. But
they interviewed some people in there that you could tell,
like this one lady was like, you know, I don't
have control at work, I don't have control, and here
I don't have control. They're like when I lark, I'm
in control and that's what it gives me. And this
other guy was like, you know, I became ended up
becoming the man, I wanted to be through the fantasy

(14:41):
of the character that I wanted to be. Yeah, I'm sure,
like if you kill a few elves over the course
of a weekend and come out of like a larpe game,
like really on top, that has to translate to the
rest of your life. Well, it's just like winning anything,
whether I mean, I don't care what sport or competition,
any kind of competition that you participate in and come
out on top or just get something out of, it's

(15:03):
gonna benefit you in your life. Yeah, it's just because
society deems of support is being worthy of paying somebody
tens of millions of dollars to be able to play it.
It doesn't mean it's any more valuable or victory there
is any more valuable than one elsewhere. Agreed, very open
minded Josh. So then you have theatrical games. Um, this
is mainly like sitting around in your house with storytelling

(15:25):
with cards and dice and things that I thought to know,
there's this whole world out there. Well it can be
that though that but that's like, that's what it is like.
If you sit around and do this in your house,
people are gonna be like, this is what you invited
us over for No, that's not true. There's all sorts
of of theatrical games that people just play, like on
a Friday night. Okay, the ones I found, we're all

(15:46):
like really involved, really widespread and kind of cool. Look, well,
it's all over the map. There's one called Fiasco that
I actually want to buy and play. It's a movie larp,
theatrical larp, and it's like very Coen Brothers ask like
the movie plots and you act out these characters. And
but that's the one where you sit around play with
your friends. All Right, it sounds kind of cool. But

(16:08):
so what's the other half. Well, the one I ran across,
the the big um, the legendary one is called Vampire
the Masquerade. Yeah, and there's like classes and tribes and
races of different vampires. And then there's other ones. There's
like ones based on mummies. There's one based on sin eaters.
There's like demon ones. There's like just different um like

(16:30):
whole worlds. Man, they've created entire worlds. They have whole
histories and they're acting these things out and it's very
much like a large except it's far more subtle. Literally
the theater maybe in a theater. It'll be in a
much larger place than like somebody's living room, um, maybe
like a conference hall or something like that, with the

(16:51):
lights turned down or something, and everybody's decked out as
like vampires from like the Victorian eras, and it looks
really cool. If you go read up on these things,
like just just going from link to link, it just
becomes more and more and more involved, and you like
it's incredibly thought out. The rules are incredibly complex. The

(17:13):
big difference between that and like combat um LARPing is
that like if if say a vampire goes to attack
another vampire, they'll usually roll for the outcome. They'll play
like some sort of some variation of paper rock scissors
or something like that. Um And And that's how it's
more about the the story and intrigue and um and

(17:37):
that kind of thing, rather than like running into battle
against one another in the woods. I think if I
I would sneak in my big boffer when they were
like all right, Chuck, you know, do your rock, paper
or scissors, and then I would pull out the big
boffer and it just like a hush would follow over
the right, like you can't bring a boffer right, especially
because you would have fixed like a squeaky toy to

(17:57):
the egg when the head to make a really goofy
noise and they're like, you're not playing right, and I
would just boff everybody like you all dead, all right?
And the final is the role playing game. And I
didn't really understand the difference, to be honest, I was
gonna ask Tracy, so maybe you can explain it. Do
you know the difference between this and like a battle
game or is it sort of like theatrical combined with battle? Yes,

(18:21):
that's exactly what Okay. Battle game is just running against
one another and beating the tar out of each other.
So there's no larger story going on. No, no, necessarily.
I think if there's a larger story than you just
created a role playing game. Okay, all right, I get
it that I would want to play a role playing game.
Then it's got everything. It's got the best of both
worlds plus bologna um. And like we said, the rules

(18:44):
are really the most important thing. Like I get a
feeling that in all these games the rules are just
sac or sancta. If you don't follow the rules, then
people get upset, and then the whole thing just goes
into chaos, you know. So let's talk about some of them,
like combat rules. Well, like we said, um, you're simulating

(19:05):
death or injury. Yeah, you're not actually inflicting this, So
you have to be able to tell how, um how
how I guess how many hit points? How much health
a character has. When you're being hit with a sword,
like in a certain area, typically you you're forced to
call out how many points you just lost. So Tracy says,

(19:26):
the combatants call out how much damage they inflict. That
seems a little I would rather play a game where
it's up to you, as the one that's hit with
the foam arrow, to say, all right, that's three points
I get hit in the chest with the foam arrow,
rather than some jerk take all three points hit you
with my arrow, right, you know, right? Like, I think
it should be up to the person who gets inflicted.

(19:48):
That's just me, And ultimately it would be up to
the game designer to decide who who who calls that out?
That would be a rule, I guess. So. But if
some guy came up and bough me in the chest
and then stood over me to many how many points?
That would be a problem. I would say, probably you
should stay away from large games because I guarantee that's
what it's like. Okay, uh we mentioned magic. Imagine magic

(20:10):
plays a big part in most games because why not.
You know, if you're going to do a fantasy game,
you might as well throw magic in there. And throwing
is is pretty important. Well, yeah, I would like to
see some of this actually, um, because there's the two components.
One where you cast a spell and do an incantation,
and then when you cast your spell at the end,

(20:31):
like you said, like you might throw a bean bag
or a little pouch of bird seed and you have
to hit the other person with it for your spell
to have had there's physical skill involved, right, So physical
skill if you get the incantation wrong um or if
you um miss, the spell doesn't work. And um. Also
like if you're a new character, if there's not you're

(20:52):
only gonna have access to certain number types of spells. Yeah,
you can't just say like I can do this spell
as much as I want, exactly. That's that's part of
the rules as well. But you mentioned this skill like
throwing is an actual part of skill that's considered a
hard skill, Like in real life, you are good at throwing.
You have the skill with pigging people with little balls

(21:13):
of bird seed. Right, your soft skill would be magic
like the made up skill that you're carrying out, and
those two combined would make you good at casting spells. Right.
Or like Tracy says, if you're a good cook, you
may really cook or make the bologna sandwiches. If you're not,
and that is your character, you may have something that

(21:34):
like to find out how good you are. I thought
that was a little granular, but I'm sure that's important
in keeping like the immersion going. Yeah, you gotta stay
in character. You know death, Yeah, yeah, you can die.
That's sort of the point. But because no one wants

(21:56):
to spend two weeks making your outfit in your boffer
only to get stabbed in the chest within the first
eight seconds of a battle and then you're just all
you have left is your bologna sandwich. So most games
will allow you back in the game um again, depending
on certain rules. Resurrecting your character is generally part of

(22:17):
the front of it. Yeah, and so either like a
player character or nonplayer character can resurrect you using a spell. Um. Oftentimes,
there's limits to how many times the character can be resurrected. Yeah.
So I imagine if you're a character who's like on
your last life in a campaign, and you're headed toward
the state park this weekend. I but you're a little nervous. Yeah,

(22:39):
that desperation, like that's palpable. Sure, Like that adds to
the whole thing, the enjoyment in the drama, because people
are going to be gunning for you, or conversely, people
might be out to protect you too. That's true. You
might learn who your friends are that weekend. Um, a
lot of folks. Sometimes sometimes there's a scorekeeper that just

(23:01):
keeps track of all the stuff. Sometimes it's up to you. Yeah,
that's different from the game master. Yeah keepers just numbers. Yeah,
just spreadsheet. I imagine that's a very specific person as well. Um,
A lot of times you you have what's called a
life ring, and it's a key ring has these little
tags on it that say like whether I'm dead or
whether or not, Like I've got four spells I can

(23:24):
use and as I use them, I'll take them off
my little ring. Just too, I guess help you remember
keep track of everything that's going on because it's complicated,
or if it has hit points you're you're pulling them off,
going like oh that one hurt. Oh, I'm bleeding, I'm
about to die, meeting bologna sandwich. Ye. Uh. The other
thing too, they will have many times is a a

(23:44):
non participation area because that's where you guess so like
let's say you do get knocked out of the game,
like you don't want to just go sit in your
you know, chevette and you know like player music your yeah,
it probably has led zeppe um oh man, nothing will

(24:06):
get you more charged up for combat than like immigrant
song immigrants is um. So there will be like a
little cordoned off area where like you can go have
a cigarette if you're into that, although kids, you shouldn't
be smoking, um and just socialize, you know. It's just
a big part of it. You're making friends out there,
and who are your friends? Who are the people that

(24:28):
play these games? Well, uh, Lari Zlokovski says, um quote,
most of them are very imaginative, people have a taste
for genre fiction, are highly intelligent, and are in some
sense usually a little bit different socially, she says, um,
and that's a big part of it. Maybe you don't
have a lot of friends and this is a good

(24:48):
outlet for you to make friends and create this cool
fantasy world and like we said, like build up your
self esteem. Um yeah, man, that's just so neat. I
like that there's a place out there for people who
lack confidence. It can go like get it absolutely man,
because you know, the dumb jock might get that on

(25:11):
the football field. But Lucas may not be able to
play football. You know, he's too tiny. He's a little
Corey Hamees, so he might. You know, they had Larpe
when Lucas was around. He might have been able to
get the chick from the goonies. I can't remember her name.
But but he didn't, and he dies young because there's
no Larva. That's the right movie. Did Lucas die? I

(25:35):
don't know. That's why I'm asking you, Jerry, she says,
I think so? Does he really? Spoiler? No, I don't
think Lucas died. Keep thinking of Brian's song, Jerry. Yeah,
or Rudy Rudy, Rudy Diesudy still alive? Actually? Oh really,
who dies? She said, Lucas? Have you seen John dies

(25:57):
at the end? No? Is that good? It is good? Yeah?
All right, So spoilers all over the place. So well,
it's in the title. Well, no, no, no, I'm just
talking about Lucas, so, uh, you can't. What we're saying
is you can't pigeonhole, right, LARPers. You have to have
three pigeonholes for LARPers. Uh. It turns out there's a

(26:18):
guy named Peter Brockman. He wrote an essay called the
three Way Model UM and it was included in the
book as Lark Grows Up Theory and Methods and larp. Yeah,
there's another essay called the three way Model that it
has nothing to do with at least one other UM.
And Brockman says, Okay, there's basically three kinds of mindsets

(26:40):
among LARPers. You've got the dramatists, the gamist, and the immersionist.
And really, honestly, um, probably most LARPers are a combination
of these three. But there are three pure mindsets among LARPers. Yeah.
The dramatists obviously is going to be way into the
story and the plot maybe helps write the story. You know. Well,

(27:01):
you can also take all three of these and transpose
them onto the game designer as well, Like it applies
to the characters the player characters and the designers. Yeah,
the gami ist, Um, they're really into the mystery and
maybe uh creating these puzzles for players to discover. Um.
And then the immersionists. Immersionists obviously are like way into

(27:23):
becoming these characters. Yeah, I mean if you're if you're
the character and you're really into the character. Everything else
is kind of secondary to that for the immersionist. And
then there's the administrate administrationist. Yeah, the the the person
who keeps score. Yeah, it is a big deal though,
Like you can't just show up at a park with
seventy people and overrun picnickers. You know, you probably have

(27:47):
to reserve your spot and maybe look into insurance and
the licenses. Usually. Yeah, like there's a little more red
tape probably than you might imagine. Um. And thank god
there's people out there that are willing to pitch in
and help out like that exact. And usually it's the again,
the game designer's inner circle that is helping out. And uh,
Laura Zolkowski says, in this case, usually you're more looking

(28:11):
for reliability than even talent and creativity. Just having people
you can depend on is you know, worth its weight
in gold. Jerry just texted me from three feet away
and then said, Lucas doesn't die. That's great. I didn't
think he died because he's not sick, he's just small. Yeah,

(28:32):
he died in real life. Maybe that's what she was thinking.
Oh yeah, Cory Haynes. But he was growing up then. Yeah. No,
there's like a kid dies young powder. Maybe we'll figure
it out one day. If you know the answer to that,
let us know. Uh, well, that's the end of Lark, buddy,
you got anything else. No, we'd like to hear from

(28:52):
Marker's for sure. Red that Red Button Productions that Zolkowski
sold King's Gate to. They do it like every month.
M every month they have it Lark. Maybe I'll get
my feet wet and go watch. Oh you will be
sucked in immediately. Somebody will hand you a sword in
a blowny sandwich and you'll be like, I'm in. Well,
I'll bring my boffer just in case, but I'll just

(29:14):
go watch. Do you have one? Handy potato guns don't count.
You can't shoot people with those, or US retrofitted steampunk
nerf guns, yeah, which are pretty cool. Actually, Yeah, if
I had more time in the inclination. I would make one.
He can just by one, put duct tape on and
be like, look what I mane. If you want to

(29:34):
know more about LARP, you can type in l A
r P on the search bar how stuff works dot
Com and will bring up this article. Uh. And since
I said search bar, that means it's time for message
brick U now, Chuck, it's time for listener mail. Yeah,

(29:55):
this is called capgrass murder. Dude, dude, Oh yeah, I
heard just at the People's Court theme. No, I did
cat scratch fever. All right, that's what I thought you
were saying it like cat grass murder. Okay, I thought
you was in People's Court. Even still, this this is
pretty serious. Hey, guys, love the show. I have a

(30:18):
story about cap grass syndrome. What do you remember this one? Yeah? Okay.
In the early my family moved from Detroit, Michigan to
a small farming community in northern Michigan. Hillman. We got
a great deal in the house that we moved into,
and soon found out it was because there was a
double murder in that house. Unfortunately, his son murdered both
of his parents. We were able to determine where when

(30:39):
we changed the carpets. That's gross. It is super gross.
And you'll remember in crime scene remediation, Yeah, episode, someone
did a bad child, did a terrible job. You sup
to tear up that sub floor. Um. When questioned it's
the way he did it, he kept saying he did
not kill his parents because they were still living down state.
He was convinced that they were not his arrants but

(31:00):
instead impostors. I remember that one of his defenses was
was that he suffered from cap craw or capgrass syndrome. Dude,
we got lots of stairs in the neighborhood and we
weren't really sure why until we found out the names.
The people who were shot were named David and Norma Douglas.
My parents were David and Elizabeth Douglas. Creepy. The town,

(31:24):
being small and not very accepting of strangers, referred to
my mother as Norma he even though her name was Elizabeth.
That's not very nice, no, and that's creepy too. Um.
We were never really sure if it was out of
jess malice or other reasoning. It was a little concerning, though,
because we were always worried that if he ever got
out of jail, he may go back home only to
find that David Norman Douglas still lived in the house.

(31:47):
It's a val concern. Um. Thankfully that has never happened,
but it was definitely worrisome at the time, and we
occasionally still check from time to time to make sure
he's still locked up. And I hope I occasionally you mean,
like every three to six months, um, take care of
keep up the great shows. That is from John Peter Zak,
That poor guy man. That was one of those things
where it's like, oh my god, this is so what

(32:08):
a bizarre conditioning, and then like the more you learn
about you're like, oh, what a horribly debilitating condition. Yeah,
that was a sad one. There was also, maybe my opinion,
our most interesting episode subject. We um, there was a
guy in the neighborhood in New Jersey, in the small
town in New Jersey I looked in that murdered his
parents and he apparently wrote their names on the shotgun shells,

(32:31):
which is like there's a bullet with their name on
that kind of thing. I would say that was premeditated. Yeah,
there was no accident. Well thanks for that, Chuck. Sure,
that was like a listener mouse supplement's right, h if
you have something to say about one of our episodes,
or what were we asking about from the lark community.
Just you know, what's your experience been like. Has it

(32:53):
built up your confidence? Maybe? Oh, if you know the
movie we're thinking of about the kid who dies Young,
that too, and we're not talking about I Young, the
movie with Campbell Scott Roberts. There's another one. Any of
those things. Or if you want to just get in
touch with us, you can tweet to us at s
y s K podcast. You can join us on Facebook
dot com slash stuff you Should Know. You can send

(33:14):
us an email The Stuff podcasts at Discovery dot com,
and you can join us at our home on the web.
That's Stuff you Should Know dot com For more on
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(33:40):
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