September 15, 2015 • 42 mins
Some people call them flacks. Other people call them liars. But if you're in the public eye and suddenly have an image problem, you'll call them your best friend.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Stuff you should know from house Stuff Works
dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.
There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, There's Jerry so Stub. You
should know. This is it? Well, that sounded like you're
(00:22):
introducing the final episode my voice, this is it feels
like it's the final episode. You won't be able to
talk anymore. No, I'm getting there. That's not true. You
don't know that. How's it going? It's going pretty well? Man.
How about with you? I think both of us had
a bit of a dark time researching this article. Why well,
(00:47):
because and we're gonna get Well, we're gonna get flak.
That's a teaser from publicists, because what I learned is
that publicists are professional liars. I would say that depends
on the circumstance. Well, what do you mean, Well, you're
(01:08):
saying they're publicists who don't lie. No, I'm saying it
depends on um whether the publicist is going to the
media or the media is coming to the publicist, depending
on the circumstance. What I am saying is, no matter
what who you work for, if you're a publicist, then
a percentage of your job will be lying depending on
(01:31):
the circumstance. So so Billy Rays lie about something good.
Billy ray Cyrus is like, I am going to donate
a bunch of time and money to a local homeless shelter.
You don't about that. The publicist gets on the horn
starts letting everybody know, you guys should come cover this.
Billy ray Cyrus goes and does that, and everything's good.
(01:52):
Then on the way home, Billy ray Cyrus decides to
celebrate by drinking a bucket of tequila and runs his
car into a uh whatever. Okay. The publicist then starts
getting calls and says he didn't drink a bucket of tequila.
That wasn't even happen. That's overstated what really happened with this.
(02:15):
So the circumstances depend on the the whether the publicist
is or not. Oh yeah, I'm not saying that all
publicists do is lie. But I'm saying if you work
as a publicist, part of your job is to cover
tracks and to lie um and you know that. Don't
hate the publicists, hate the system, is what I say. Yeah,
(02:36):
they're definitely a part of a larger system. Yeah, a
larger system which includes all of us who digest news. Yeah,
especially say like entertainment news, that kind of thing. Um,
there's like there's a whole there's two. From my understanding,
there's two routes a person can take as a celebrity.
(02:58):
You can either just go off and be a normal person,
and depending on your level, you might have paparazzi following
your that kind of stuff. There's once you get to
a certain level, it doesn't matter what your decision is,
or you can hire a publicist and feed yourself right
into that machine to get as much publicity and as
much pressed as you possibly can. Yeah. Well, I think
(03:21):
any celebrity is going to have a publicist, but it's
really a matter of your directive and your goal. I
think some of those people like to be like that
the old adage there's no such thing as bad publicity. Yeah,
I I ran into that that that's more of a
PR term, where like, so if you're in the PR,
you're probably representing a company or an organization or something
(03:42):
like that. A publicist is somebody who typically represents a
single person, an artist and author, a musician, um, something
like that. That's really the only definition I confined for
a publicist, and the the job the goal of the
publicist is to you, um, help maintain and promote the
(04:03):
public image of that person that they represent. That's right,
by um having a good relationship with the media, Yes,
that's the publicist. Uh. And by the way, that no,
no such thing as bad publicity. I tried to find
the origin of that, and the closest thing I could
find was P. T. Barnum. But I don't know if
that's true. I don't think that's verified. We Twain, Yeah,
(04:27):
PT Barnum or Mark Twain. Everybody says Mark Twain saying uh.
And I don't think that's even true anyway. I think
maybe that used to be true, that it was a
Mark Twain saying no, that no such thing is bad publicity.
I think at one point that may have been sort
of true. Yeah, these days there's clearly bad publicity. So
(04:47):
you I said the word flak earlier as a teaser, apparently,
um too. Flak or a flack is a term originating
from Gene Flak, early movie publicist Hollywood, and that's right
f l a K to take. Flak is named after
a type of German gun in World War Two. A
(05:09):
German anti aircraft gun. Two different things, but in this
case it is a pejorative term for publicists. They don't
like it. Pr flack Yeah, you shouldn't say that to
someone that works in PR, or call them a liar.
They don't like that either. Um yeah, I looked it up.
Apparently it means that like, you can't be trusted, you'll
you'll do anything for money. That's what a flackist. And
(05:32):
then that's like they one article I read said that's
like calling a personal injury attorney an ambulance chaser. Just
not a nice term. So there you have it. Uh So,
a publicist, like you said, works for their client to
make them to get their good deeds out, and too
(05:53):
if they don't have good deeds, to spend things to
make it look like they do. You know, here, hold
this baby lamp. Yeah, we take your picture exactly, and
then they get photographed later eating euros down the block.
The two events were totally not connected. No, So the
what they do is they pitch ideas to the media
(06:15):
and they probably have to be good writers themselves because
the press release oftentimes is a starting point. But press releases,
as we know, I can get lost in the shuffle
and never see the light of day. Yeah, it seems
like a huge wasted time. It can be, but uh,
if you have a good publicist, um, they will be
(06:37):
well connected to the media to ensure that that uh
publicity blast is not lost, right exactly. So there's um,
there's direction one, which is from the publicists to the media,
and the publicist is going to have all these contacts
with different entertainment reporters and business reporters and anybody that
(06:58):
can possibly run the story. Yeah, anybody that could possibly
run a story on um their client rights. And they'll say, um,
Billy Ray is going to donate some money. He just
seems like the type who would donate a bunch of
money to a homeless shelter and go down there himself
and help out. So Billy Ray is going to be
(07:19):
down there. Plus it's it's it rolls off the tongue,
Billy Ray. Um, So why don't you send one of
your cover reporters down and and let's get some coverage
for this. And since their friends, since these people have
worked together for decades, now this reporter and this your
your publicist. The reporter actually might respond and show up
(07:41):
or the editor or the news producer, whoever the contact is.
That's great, Like that's you hired a good publicist and
now this story is going to make it out there
because they didn't just write up a press release with
a bunch of exclamation points in the headline and facts
it to every media outlet they could find and get
your response. Yes, so good. A publicist is only as
(08:02):
good as their relationships, I think. Um. The other way
on that street that you were talking about is from
the journalists fact to the publicist. If they hear I
heard Billy ray Cyrus drink a bucket of tequila and
ran over a prostitute with his car, they will then
get in touch with the publicist and then they go jack, buddy, Hey,
(08:22):
we go back a long way. What I lie to you?
What I lie to you? Uh So that's how that goes,
and they want they will be more forthcoming with people
who have it's a scratch your back, you scratch my
type of scenario. Yeah, like that reporter that actually showed
up at the homeless shelter and covered it and made
a nice piece and everything. I'll give you the scoop.
(08:45):
When that guy calls, he's he's going to get the
better treatment from the publicist than somebody who ignored the
pitch before. That's right, um scratching a lot of back
scratchings in the machine. I've seen a lot more women
as bblicists and men, and I've always wonder why that
it's true. I don't know that that is true. In
researching this, I saw about an equal amount. I used
(09:07):
to think that as well, Um, but it seems like
there's an equal amount these days. It seems like every
publicist I've ever known has been a woman. And I
just figured just because women maybe more level headed and
uh more able to like smooth out a situation has
some big dumb guy. Um, but I guess the guys
who were publicists aren't big dumb guys like me. I'd
(09:28):
be a bad publicist. Oh yeah, So what would your
response to be if somebody called to find out what
stupid thing you're your client did or why they did
some stupid thing. I'd say, you know, what's really none
none of your business, bad publicist. Yeah well that was
something I ran across, as you know, saying something like
(09:50):
my client needs to privacy respected right now, we just
immediately shut down a relationship that you've cultivated over the years.
Do you have to give as a publicist you are
like you, there has to be something that you give,
so you better have something that will play kate the reporter,
but while also is probably not the truth, because that
(10:13):
reporter will go off and write the truth about your client,
and your client will have just gotten horrible publicity because
of you. It's a balancing act. Yeah, or they'll just
say let me send you get back from pet Segal.
You like the last one, right, Uh. But publicist may
also and it depends people that have a staff of
people working for them. Sometimes the lines are blurred on
(10:37):
who does what. But a publicist can arrange uh interview
requests and set all that stuff up. If you have
like a book tour, or your politician or your band
with a new album coming out, they might arrange all
those interviews, in which case they are prepping two things.
They are prepping the interviewer saying you can't ask about
(10:59):
the bucket of tequila. If you want this interview, i'll
give it to you, but this is off limits all
these things. And then, as we've learned when we've had
people work with us in publicity, they'll be prepping you
um on as the interviewee, like if they asked this,
this is how you should probably deal with it. Don't
answer that. Yeah, it's back to what you were And uh,
(11:22):
my favorite thing ever our videos where celebrities walk out
of interviews because the interviewer has asked something they weren't
supposed to ask. Those are great. Yeah, not to sit
around watch those all day. Yeah, you can probably find
a pretty good super cut of them. Yeah probably. So
all right, Well let's take a break and uh when
we come back, we will talk a little bit about
(11:44):
the skills you need as a publicist. All right, We've
mentioned lying and you know, I joke, but for real,
(12:06):
if you want to be a publicist, you better have
a certain comfort level with with stretching the truth and lying. Yeah,
because you're gonna have to do that. If you're not
comfortable with that, you shouldn't go into that line of work.
Is that safe to say? I think very. You need
to be good with people and cultivate those relationships. You
need to be a good writer. Well, not only do
you have to be a good writer, you have to
(12:27):
be a good journalist. And a lot of UM publicists
have a background in journalism because I kept running into
this in this article and another article you sent. The
number one rule of being a publicist is to think
like a journalist. Even better than that is to not
only think like a journalist, but be able to write
(12:47):
like a journalist too, because as we kind of demonstrated
that the publicist media relationship is a two way street.
The publicist needs the media to publicize and of adding
manner their client, But the media needs a publicist because
they've got deadlines and they need to come up with
story ideas. And if something is brought to them, that's great.
(13:11):
But that that media professional has a reputation to protect.
It can't be like, you know, Billy ray Cyrus got
off of his couch and mail to check for five
dollars to a local homeless shelter. Yeah, and they came
in a pressure release in a fax machine. That reporter
is not going to have a very good reputation. But
if a publicist comes to this reporter with a great headline,
(13:35):
creative pitch a good story that's tailored to that reporter
and they're beat and even more than that, tailored to
that reporters audience, there's a good likelihood that reporter will say,
I'm listening and that's just music to a publicist years sure,
just to be listened to. Yeah, that's when you throw
it into fifth year. Uh. You can't be afraid of rejection. UM,
(13:59):
you've got to be outgoing and you've got to take
your licks because a lot of your attempts are going
to fail just by nature of the job. So you
can't get your feelings all hurt. Yeah, you guess you could,
but you don't want to show that because then the
journalists would be like, jeez, Chuck, such a baby. You're
going to be eating a lot. I didn't run the
story and he's complaining I saw him choking up in
(14:20):
the bathroom. While they may get a good laugh out
of that, probably won't want to work with you as much. UM.
You gotta be very patient and you have to be
very flexible because if you're working for celebrities, it is
a very tough job. That's another thing too, So you
are Um, your hours are basically all hours whenever you're needed. Right.
(14:43):
So not only does your publicists frequently also have to
do other stuff or people associated with the publicist UM
have to do things like pick up things for the
the client, like um. In addition to that, like the
higher up you go on the food chain, which we'll
(15:04):
talk about in a minute. UM, the more that that
client feels a okay with emailing you at three in
the morning saying like, UM, I need to be reassured
about my celebrity status or whatever, um, and the publicist
needs to respond, you're basically on call all the time. Also,
at three in the morning, your client may have done
(15:25):
something really horrifically stupid and some paparazzi caught it and
now words starting to spread and you're fielding calls from
reporters at three in the morning to get a statement
on what your client did. Yeah. I mean when when
Twitter came out, I remember thinking at the time, like
publicists aren't gonna be around anymore because people are doing
this themselves. Well, they've actually figured out ways to use Twitter,
(15:49):
benefit ways to use Twitter. But Twitter is also their
biggest security blanket as well, because because of Twitter, more
and more celebrities are saying really stupid things at the
publicist is then going to have to cover their tracks,
so they'll take down the tweet and then try and
spend that or just you know, the apology is always
very funny to me awkward. Well, it's never like, did
(16:13):
you hear about Chris Carter, the NFL guy, he's a
former NFL player wide receiver. Yeah, he um is in
hot water this week because he spoke. Was hired by
the NFL to come in and speak to the rookies.
They often do that for guys that had been in trouble,
to come in and say, don't do what I did. Yeah,
(16:35):
sort of and um he said in his talk to
the Rookie Symposium said something about, you know, if you
get caught with you know, da da da da da,
he just make sure you have a fall guy on
your team, like the guy in the car that's like,
it's my weed. And he got in big trouble for that.
And his apology. His apology was was like that that's
(16:56):
not the kind of advice I would ever give young people.
It's like, but that's the advice you exactly gave young people, Like,
how can you say that days later? It's just so obvious.
It's a forced, insincere apology. So we either had a
bad publicist didn't listen to his publicist, because part of
the publicist job is when you're going to make the statement,
(17:19):
the public statement, the public apology, or whatever, the reasoning
behind it, the rationale, the um, the wording of it,
just the logic behind the apology is probably going to
be crafted by your publicists. At least help they're going
to help you with it. At the very least, they're
going to want to help you with it, right because
(17:41):
they're probably scared stupid that you're going to make it worse. Right,
And it sounds like there's a lot of crisis management
and that is a part of it, But publicists also
are just trying to cook up opportunities. Um. I think
that that's way more the day to day. Yeah, yeah,
for sure, depending on the client, of course. Um but
I remember our former boss Connell was in a band
(18:04):
years ago and I read online somewhere that his band
was I went to Elton John's do you remember this story?
Went to Elton John's house and spelled out their band
name and fire on his tennis court. I hadn't to
try and get on his label or something. That's a
great way to do it, I know, And I went
and asked it. I was like, dude, I can't believe
(18:26):
you guys did that. And he went we didn't do that.
I was like no, and he was like no, these
our publicists made that up. It's like nothing true about it.
And he's like no, they completely fabricated that story as
a publicity stunt that never happened. Uh. Yeah, So why
even go to the trouble of it where you can
just release a story that says that you did that
you hadn't that amazing when something like that could so
(18:47):
easily be fact check, like by calling Elton John Well,
that's the other thing. Like, I don't know, I don't know.
So I'm curious. I wonder how many media stories are
just totally fabricated matter of fact. You out there in
podcast land, let us know if you know a media
story that was just totally fabricated that everybody takes his fact.
(19:10):
We want to hear it. I love stuff like that.
I do too. Alright. We mentioned earlier that you might
end up getting the laundry or dry cleaning as a publicist,
if you're the publicist intern. Yeah, that's probably what's going
to happen, is you might get asked to go get
the laundry and then you will say, sure, I'll take
care of that for you, and then you will go
down the chain until you find the underling who was
(19:30):
trying to be a publicist who still does things like that. Right,
this person may or may not be in college, but
it's probably college age. That's something that I ran across.
If you want a career in as a publicist, you
do not need to spend a single penny on higher education.
The entire career of publicists begins as as a hands
(19:55):
on experience. You need to be in. You need to
be literate, You need to prob have a knack for
writing um in a journalistic way and crafting good headlines
and by proxy good email subject lines. But you don't
If you have that already before college, you don't need
to go to college. No, Like you can go in
(20:16):
major in journalism or communications or PR. But it's not
like you get that diploma, that PR diploma, and you're
gonna get like some entry level job as a publicist
and you're still gonna have to work your way out.
See it says right here, I have a PR degree,
So where's my job? My advice is to skip college
and go straight into the workforce as early as you can.
(20:37):
If this is what you want to do, you know,
I feel and I hope that there is becoming a
bigger understanding that there are certain fields out there. There
are careers out there where you don't have to go
to college, and there are careers out there where, like
you should go to a vocational school to learn that trade.
That college is not necessarily this end all be all,
(20:58):
that you have to spend money after money after money
to get a degree that might even not be used
in your field. But I mean that it needed a
degree to do what I'm doing. No one ever has
to see it, all right, And this is a this
is a perfect example of that, Chuck, Like, to be
a publicist, you do not need a degree. You need
hands on experience. You need basically what amounts to an apprenticeship.
(21:20):
That's right, Yeah, a good way to say it. So
go in and get that job in the mail room
or as an assistant or as an intern. Uh. And
it would be great if you still live at your
parents house at this point, because you're going to get
paid like next to nothing and you're going to be
doing all the grunt work. But if you are, if
you go in there with your mindset to I'm going
(21:41):
to learn this. I want to learn this and move up.
You're you're going to be in the right environment for
that absolutely. Uh. Like we said, you might be picking
up dry cleaning. You're going to be returning a lot
of phone calls, drafting a lot of um, probably not
so fun uh press releases that that is graduated from
the intern. Yeah. Well, I'm talking about being like a
(22:03):
junior assistant right after you get hired on. Yeah. Yeah,
and press releases that aren't like the sexy ones. You know, Um,
you're not gonna be writing like the press releases for
Billy Ray Cyrus in other words, No, those are sexy.
You'll be writing them for his dog, Okay, you know sure,
Freddie Freddie Cyrus, Freddie Freddie Cyrus. Okay. You are going
(22:28):
to be handling your publicists that you work for, their schedule, um,
their contacts. You're going to be putting together press skots
and epks electronic press skitts and blasting those out. Basically
all of the um nuts and bolts of the job
you're going to be doing as a junior uh staff
(22:51):
publicist or an assistant. Not a bad gig if that's
what you want to do and if you stick to
it and you're good at it, you're gonna end up
being a publicist. Not only are you getting the experience
you need on the job, you're also in a place
where your networking too, because that is probably tied for
first as far as like thinking like a journalist goes.
(23:11):
You need to be a pretty good networker. That's right,
And you know what, let's take a break and we
will talk more about networking and some of the skills
you still need. Cho Can I make a confession, I'm
(23:38):
possibly the worst networker on the planet. Uh, you didn't
have to tell me that I'm really bad at it. Yeah,
it's not your back, It isn't. Some people are good
at networking, pretty good at You're good at networking because
I enjoy it, and I don't consider it um networking
(23:58):
sounds like just doing something to serve you in the end.
I don't look at it that way. I look at
it like I enjoy making professional colleague, enjoy meeting and
getting to know professional colleagues, and then later on if
I can hit them up for something or if they
hit me up, that's great, But if not, it's just
(24:19):
something like you know, so, so the response to somebody
when they come and ask you for something you're like,
oh I saw this coming. That's not the way to respond.
Probably not. I'm trying to put myself out there a
little more. Oh yeah, yeah, Why is that just just?
I think that's a skill that everybody should have instead
(24:41):
of being like a misanthropic recluse, you know, put yourself
out there. I agree. Um, well, one of the skills
that I don't think we pinpointed was networking without seeming
like your networking, which is sort of the key what
I was just talking about. And I think maybe that
is it too, Like I feel like networking is a task.
Is if I just relaxed and enjoyed it and like
(25:03):
just you know, communing with a fellow human being, isn't
that what it's all about? It's all it is like that,
then I'm sure it would be much more relaxing. Um.
I read a blog and I sent it to you,
and I want to shout them out because they sonic
(25:25):
bids S O N I C B I D S.
It's a blog where they did an interview that was
pretty insightful. Actually, they did a double interview, a dual
interview with Julie Lichtenstein, a thirty seven Media and Lily
Golightly of Golightly Media, And I think they worked with
bands and musical artists mainly, but it was super insightful
(25:49):
and they said, Um, just some little tidbits here, Like
I was always curious how they get paid, um, And
I think if you're a publicist for a person and
like you were on retainer, then you just get a
salary um, or if you're part of a firm that
just works for that person. But you can also just
be hired for a campaign. Right, So if you're a
(26:10):
band and you have gone to the trouble of like
going in and hiring a producer to produce your album,
and like you've made a studio quality album that you're
proud of, you might want to hit everybody up or
gather around another two grand to hire a publicist for
a month to release that album correctly. And like just
(26:32):
hiring a publicist isn't going to automatically make it great.
Like you need to say, can we see some of
the other campaigns you've run? What are your ideas for
this campaign? Um? Who have some of your clients been
in the past? Um? What are what are what's some
of the press that you've gotten. Yeah, you don't want
to just be like throw a dart at a phone book,
(26:55):
do your research because it's too grand and you're an
upcoming band and that's just that's not chump change. But
if you if you look at it as a wise investment,
and you do invest in wisely and a good publicist,
it could make a huge difference for you. Agreed. Um.
This Julie said that, Uh, they try and get out
for for a major artist, three or four months ahead
(27:17):
of the release of the album is when they want
to start their job. So it's not like, hey, it
drops next week, let's think of some good ideas, you know,
they want some good lead time. Uh. And they said
that they like to work around goals. Um, if they're
if it's like a tour, like for us going on
our tour, we don't have a publicist, but we have
(27:40):
promoters working with venues that sort of do the job
of a publicist as far as trying to sell tickets. Um.
But if you are booking a tour and you have
a publicist, they're going to be the ones that are
getting you on the local radio stations, morning TV, getting
you in the local newspaper or alternative newspaper to get
(28:01):
you some pressed. And this is I mean if you
have um, like, this is stuff you can do yourself.
But one of the things that you are hiring when
you hire a publicists their contexts, Like you don't have
the context, you're just the band. One of the problems
is that you are it's going to be tough for
you to think objectively, like you're not gonna understand why
(28:23):
every journalist you talked to doesn't want to automatically do
a long form piece on how great your band is.
Publicists is going to be dispassionate enough and removed enough
that they can see it objectively through a journalists size
and then pitch it in a way that's probably going
to get better, um more more bites. Yeah, that's a
(28:43):
good way to put it. Because the artists we've even
experienced this is the ones who gets their feelings or
saying like, oh man, that you know they interviewed us
last time, why did they do it this time? And
they're always great about massaging the ego a little bit,
saying like it's okay, guys, there's no big deal, because um,
that doesn't do much for anyway. Lie, right, we got
this other thing that's better lie right. Um. The other
(29:07):
thing they're gonna be doing if they work for you,
is are gonna be sending you, uh weekly or bi
weekly reports on what's lined up, who passed on stuff,
who who bit um stuff like that, Like they're keeping
you informed. You're not just like in a black hole.
And some artists like to be well in touch on
that stuff. And some probably don't care about being bothered.
(29:29):
They just want to be on Man. Conan shot in
Atlanta fifteen minutes from our house where we live, and
we couldn't get on Conan and it was while our
TV show is debuting. You don't have to remind me.
Let's talk Penny C. Santi Vieri, Yeah, from HuffPo. She
(29:53):
is the author and CEO of Marketing Experts, Inc. And
she listed out nine things that a good publicist does.
What's number one? Chuck? Can you guess? I think like
a journalist? That's right. You already said that and you
were right. It's the number one rule. Number two rules,
know the rules, right, You gotta play within the game
(30:14):
if you start and you can bend rules, but if
you start breaking them, people have a long memory. Well here, yeah,
if you go on and read. Um, just type the
phrase rules of pitching and publicity into your favorite search
engine and it will bring up Apparently one of the
journalist things journalists like to do in their downtime is
(30:35):
right lengthy blog post mocking pr and publicists don't follow
the rules of pitching. So, um, one of the rules
is no phone calls. You just don't use the phone email. Yeah,
especially if you're cold calling people like I guess if
you have a relationship with somebody, you can pick up
the phone and column, but you you don't send an
(30:58):
email blast and then a day later follow up on
the email by phone. Apparently that's the worst thing you
can do. Yeah, you don't want to bug people, know,
and it's very easy to come off as like pestering
a reporter as publicist. So you need to know the rules,
or your publicist needs to know the rules. Here's a
(31:20):
good one that I didn't think about reading outside of
your market. I'm sure it's pretty easy to just think
New York in l A, Like, what else do I
need to know about? Well, not even that. It's like, um,
if you're a band outside of your industry, yeah, you know,
and just start to think of like, oh, well, we
actually sing this song about the oil industry and oil
(31:41):
prices are going through the roofs, so maybe maybe the
Today Show would want to talk to us about our songs.
I didn't think about that. I'd be a great publicist.
I'm terrible at networking. UM, Google alerts. That's kind of
a no brainer. I would think. UM, understanding the importance
of local met the that's a good one because while
(32:02):
your artist is not gonna be super stoked about appearing
on Good Morning Toledo, Hey, if there's a tie like
you're from Toledo, like you, then that's probably a smart
thing to do because the local media loves people that
were from there that moved away. Plus, UM, Mrs sance
(32:22):
Cvari makes this point or miss santy Viry sorry, um
makes this point that, Um, you never know where a
local contact is going to end up. Sure might hit
the big time. They might work for USA Today in
a couple of months. Yeah, it doesn't get bigger than that. Uh.
And if they if they hit the big time on
their end and they have you as like a contact,
(32:43):
it could help you out big time. That's right. Uh.
And then earlier you mentioned something about subject lines for emails.
I never really thought about this, but um, Penny says,
can I call her Penny? You can't in the first
name basis I call her miss san Sivilleri. Okay, what's
She says that crafting a subject line is one of
the most important things that you can do as a publicist,
(33:06):
and that they agonize over this, and it makes total
sense with the glut of emails that people receive, especially journalists. Uh,
you want to grab their attention otherwise it's just going
to be by bye time. So but you also have
to redrafting, editing, tweaking, she says. It's just like maddening
(33:26):
how much you have to do that. Yeah, that would
drive me crazy. Yeah, because it's the minutia. So much
importance on the minutiae. But it's true, and you have
to you have to put a lot of thought into it.
But you also probably can't come off as having put
too much thought into where else it seems desperate, which
she'll turn somebody off. Publicists want to kill journalists and
(33:47):
vice versa. Yeah, it sounds like a weird relationship for sure,
you know, and then also, did you look up media leads?
So basically there's services out there where journalists say I
need a quote on I'm doing a piece on nuclear fusion,
and I don't even know what that is. So the
source and then this this this UM service that the
(34:11):
journalist calls puts out like a daily year's you know,
maybe even more than once a day newsletter blasts to
PR people who pay for the service, and then they
go through and say, oh, I've actually got a nuclear
physicist on my payroll, and I'm I'm going to connect him.
We've been connected that way before, huh, when we had
(34:33):
different PR firms working for worth US at times UM
they've gotten in touch and say it said so and
so at SpaceX UM wants to know if you want
to come on and talk about this or when we
did that stuff on ABC about when the housing crisis hit. Yeah,
because we're financial experts. Yeah, so stuff like that. Yeah,
I guess it used to come across our desk every
(34:54):
now and then. Well, there's there's subscription services that connect
people through leads. From what I'm seeing is Twitter is
now I'm filling that void a lot where you can
just search Twitter for the hashtag h A r oh,
help a reporter out the reporters um. And then also
I guess there's a lot of PR tastemakers out there
(35:15):
um that are just super connected and will basically tweet
a lead and you don't have to pay a thousand
dollars a more for that subscription service. You just follow
certain people on Twitter, and as a PR person, you
might have somebody that's a client that you connect. Yeah,
the whole that whole new job of being an aggregator
a curator like that. Yeah, like people do that and
(35:37):
that's all they do. But we also live in an
age where people are famous for being famous. Man, I
need to take back a little bit about my tirade
about liars. I think that what I'm talking about our
people publicists for like big celebrities and stuff like that.
Like we've had publicists work with us and at that
(36:01):
of the clients that they work with are like people
like us, where you don't have to like lie and spend. Yeah,
we're always on our best behavior. Yeah, it's just you know,
regular stuff like let me find a good opportunity for
you and connect to you. And so it's I was overstating,
and I think that's just the far edge of the
celebrity end of things, because I just got to thinking
about what if they're listening. I don't want them to
(36:22):
think I didn't think they were doing a good job.
He did a great job. We'll wait to back off
of that one, Chuck. I got one more little thing
on Jim Moron Moran. You just said moron m O
R A N. I think Moran not the way the
friends say moron. Uh. He is was known as the
(36:43):
master of the publicity stunt back in the day. Like
he did things. What his big thing was was to
take a saying and try and disprove it, like for
a company. So he literally went to Alaska on behalf
of g E to sell a refrigerator to Uh, well
it says an s come out. But I guess in
any wits what you would say today. Um, he walked
(37:04):
a bull through a china shop in New York City
is a stunt. I think they broke some things. He
got on a horse for a politician and changed directions
midstream on the horse like rode it through a river
and change directions like you can't do this. Uh. And
then in nine nine for the Premier of the Mouse
(37:24):
That Roared the Great Peter Seller's movie he opened an embassy.
Remember the movie was about a small country that declared
war in a big country because they wanted to declare
war in the US and then surrender and then get
financially from around the world because their economy was but
they ended up winning or something. I don't he opened
an embassy in Washington for a mythical country. Yeah. Speaking
(37:48):
of By the way, I finally saw a Doctor Strangelove. Oh,
really great movie, one of the best. It's up there
for sure, one of the best satires. Let's say it
is a great movie. Great movie. And Peter Seller's man
just he did great. But also I mean, like George C.
Scott was amazing, and he was amazing. And the guy
I can't remember his name that played the colonel or whatever,
(38:11):
the one who lost his marvels. Yea, yeah he was.
He was so good. Everybody was slim Slim Chills or
slim Pickins, Slim Pickins Chills. Yeah, there's Chili. Chill Wills
was another like what country Western actor, Chill Wills, I
think is his name, Chill Wills. You'd recognize him if
(38:32):
you saw his face, Okay, Chill Wills, All right, of course,
Chill Wills makes an appearance and How Publicist Works episode No,
I got nothing else, Thank goodness. If you want to
know more about publicists, you can take this word in
the search part how stuff Works dot com? And I
said search parts was time for listening to mail Did
(38:54):
have one more thing? What was that movie America's Sweethearts?
Did you ever see that? With John cusack Down? You
know Billy Crystal was played a publicist a pain in
the butt Hollywood couple. Oh, best, best portrayal of a
publicist is on Seinfeld. The mom from that seventies show Members.
She played Seinfeld's publicist. Oh she was. Yeah, she tried
(39:18):
to get the airline pilot kicked out of Jerry's show
and he ended up getting I think it's the one
where Kramer's at JFK or LaGuardia. He's making bets on
arrivals and he ends up using the son of Sam
mail Bag as collateral. Right, great episode, but the mom
from that seventies show played Jerry's publicist. Yeah, who was
(39:40):
also on Friends? What was she friends? She played Phoebe's
half brother. Giovanni Ribisi played his girlfriend or wife, Oh yeah,
which is a weird like a mismatch couples, and I
think they were. They got her to be a surrogate
for them. Okay, when Lisa Kudro got pregnant realized, I
think it's how he handled it. We have watched a
(40:02):
lot of all right, I'm gonna call this one. Uh uh.
We were actually right, and this lady was nice at
the dinner party. How's that perspic luve? Okay, hey, guys,
have a little story. I was at a small dinner
party where the host was making his own sea salt.
(40:22):
The topic about It's one of those dinner parties. The
topic of kosher salt came up, so I dropped the
fact from Your Salt episode that Kasher salt is actually
just salt used for drawing blood out of meat to
make a kosher not salt blessed by a rabbi, and
the fellow guest disagreed, which I responded, I'm quite true
about this. The host then said, raise your hand if
you're Jewish, and the guy that disputed me raised his
(40:43):
hand felt rather embarrassed while he explained to me what
kosher means and that salt also goes through the same
kosher process that would ever explained how I backed down
and didn't try to defend the fact that I just
told It's not that I doubted you guys, though I
jokingly said I'd write any mail to complain, but it's
because appeal is disrespectful to correct someone on their own heritage.
(41:04):
Good move. I also didn't want to start any petty
debate with someone at someone else's dinner party, also a
good move, so I decided to take in the embarrassment
while he was explaining what pocher is at the same
time eating a splite of pasta with Rizo. I hope
you find this amusing. Please keep up the good work.
If you read on the show, please give a shout
out to my friend Amber, who introduced me to the show.
(41:26):
And that is from Chloe uh to say. So, wait
a minute, Chuck, were we right and the guy was wrong?
We were right. The Jewish guy was wrong because I
looked it up today just to be sure, and apparently
kosher salt is kosher because in fact, they said it
should be called koshering salt. Yeah, because it's used to
make things kosher. It is not the salt itself, it's kosure.
(41:48):
It would have kept Chloe out of that kind of
suspostion Chloe, it sounds like you have a lot of
tact and dignity, yes, and that it sounds like, yeah,
the guy's a bit of a chlow part. I'm not
ruining the dinner party. So that is from Chloe in Sydney, Australia.
Thank you. If you want to get in touch with us,
we want to hear about all of your misadventures out
(42:10):
there based on Stuff you Should Know. You can tweak
to us at s y s K podcast. You can
join us on Facebook dot com slash Stuff you Should Know.
You can send us an email to Stuff Podcast at
how stuff Works dot com and has always joined us
at our home on the web, Stuff you Should Know
dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics,
(42:32):
does it how stuff Works dot com
Welcome to Stuff you should know from house Stuff Works
dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.
There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, There's Jerry so Stub. You
should know. This is it? Well, that sounded like you're
(00:22):
introducing the final episode my voice, this is it feels
like it's the final episode. You won't be able to
talk anymore. No, I'm getting there. That's not true. You
don't know that. How's it going? It's going pretty well? Man.
How about with you? I think both of us had
a bit of a dark time researching this article. Why well,
(00:47):
because and we're gonna get Well, we're gonna get flak.
That's a teaser from publicists, because what I learned is
that publicists are professional liars. I would say that depends
on the circumstance. Well, what do you mean, Well, you're
(01:08):
saying they're publicists who don't lie. No, I'm saying it
depends on um whether the publicist is going to the
media or the media is coming to the publicist, depending
on the circumstance. What I am saying is, no matter
what who you work for, if you're a publicist, then
a percentage of your job will be lying depending on
(01:31):
the circumstance. So so Billy Rays lie about something good.
Billy ray Cyrus is like, I am going to donate
a bunch of time and money to a local homeless shelter.
You don't about that. The publicist gets on the horn
starts letting everybody know, you guys should come cover this.
Billy ray Cyrus goes and does that, and everything's good.
(01:52):
Then on the way home, Billy ray Cyrus decides to
celebrate by drinking a bucket of tequila and runs his
car into a uh whatever. Okay. The publicist then starts
getting calls and says he didn't drink a bucket of tequila.
That wasn't even happen. That's overstated what really happened with this.
(02:15):
So the circumstances depend on the the whether the publicist
is or not. Oh yeah, I'm not saying that all
publicists do is lie. But I'm saying if you work
as a publicist, part of your job is to cover
tracks and to lie um and you know that. Don't
hate the publicists, hate the system, is what I say. Yeah,
(02:36):
they're definitely a part of a larger system. Yeah, a
larger system which includes all of us who digest news. Yeah,
especially say like entertainment news, that kind of thing. Um,
there's like there's a whole there's two. From my understanding,
there's two routes a person can take as a celebrity.
(02:58):
You can either just go off and be a normal person,
and depending on your level, you might have paparazzi following
your that kind of stuff. There's once you get to
a certain level, it doesn't matter what your decision is,
or you can hire a publicist and feed yourself right
into that machine to get as much publicity and as
much pressed as you possibly can. Yeah. Well, I think
(03:21):
any celebrity is going to have a publicist, but it's
really a matter of your directive and your goal. I
think some of those people like to be like that
the old adage there's no such thing as bad publicity. Yeah,
I I ran into that that that's more of a
PR term, where like, so if you're in the PR,
you're probably representing a company or an organization or something
(03:42):
like that. A publicist is somebody who typically represents a
single person, an artist and author, a musician, um, something
like that. That's really the only definition I confined for
a publicist, and the the job the goal of the
publicist is to you, um, help maintain and promote the
(04:03):
public image of that person that they represent. That's right,
by um having a good relationship with the media, Yes,
that's the publicist. Uh. And by the way, that no,
no such thing as bad publicity. I tried to find
the origin of that, and the closest thing I could
find was P. T. Barnum. But I don't know if
that's true. I don't think that's verified. We Twain, Yeah,
(04:27):
PT Barnum or Mark Twain. Everybody says Mark Twain saying uh.
And I don't think that's even true anyway. I think
maybe that used to be true, that it was a
Mark Twain saying no, that no such thing is bad publicity.
I think at one point that may have been sort
of true. Yeah, these days there's clearly bad publicity. So
(04:47):
you I said the word flak earlier as a teaser, apparently,
um too. Flak or a flack is a term originating
from Gene Flak, early movie publicist Hollywood, and that's right
f l a K to take. Flak is named after
a type of German gun in World War Two. A
(05:09):
German anti aircraft gun. Two different things, but in this
case it is a pejorative term for publicists. They don't
like it. Pr flack Yeah, you shouldn't say that to
someone that works in PR, or call them a liar.
They don't like that either. Um yeah, I looked it up.
Apparently it means that like, you can't be trusted, you'll
you'll do anything for money. That's what a flackist. And
(05:32):
then that's like they one article I read said that's
like calling a personal injury attorney an ambulance chaser. Just
not a nice term. So there you have it. Uh So,
a publicist, like you said, works for their client to
make them to get their good deeds out, and too
(05:53):
if they don't have good deeds, to spend things to
make it look like they do. You know, here, hold
this baby lamp. Yeah, we take your picture exactly, and
then they get photographed later eating euros down the block.
The two events were totally not connected. No, So the
what they do is they pitch ideas to the media
(06:15):
and they probably have to be good writers themselves because
the press release oftentimes is a starting point. But press releases,
as we know, I can get lost in the shuffle
and never see the light of day. Yeah, it seems
like a huge wasted time. It can be, but uh,
if you have a good publicist, um, they will be
(06:37):
well connected to the media to ensure that that uh
publicity blast is not lost, right exactly. So there's um,
there's direction one, which is from the publicists to the media,
and the publicist is going to have all these contacts
with different entertainment reporters and business reporters and anybody that
(06:58):
can possibly run the story. Yeah, anybody that could possibly
run a story on um their client rights. And they'll say, um,
Billy Ray is going to donate some money. He just
seems like the type who would donate a bunch of
money to a homeless shelter and go down there himself
and help out. So Billy Ray is going to be
(07:19):
down there. Plus it's it's it rolls off the tongue,
Billy Ray. Um, So why don't you send one of
your cover reporters down and and let's get some coverage
for this. And since their friends, since these people have
worked together for decades, now this reporter and this your
your publicist. The reporter actually might respond and show up
(07:41):
or the editor or the news producer, whoever the contact is.
That's great, Like that's you hired a good publicist and
now this story is going to make it out there
because they didn't just write up a press release with
a bunch of exclamation points in the headline and facts
it to every media outlet they could find and get
your response. Yes, so good. A publicist is only as
(08:02):
good as their relationships, I think. Um. The other way
on that street that you were talking about is from
the journalists fact to the publicist. If they hear I
heard Billy ray Cyrus drink a bucket of tequila and
ran over a prostitute with his car, they will then
get in touch with the publicist and then they go jack, buddy, Hey,
(08:22):
we go back a long way. What I lie to you?
What I lie to you? Uh So that's how that goes,
and they want they will be more forthcoming with people
who have it's a scratch your back, you scratch my
type of scenario. Yeah, like that reporter that actually showed
up at the homeless shelter and covered it and made
a nice piece and everything. I'll give you the scoop.
(08:45):
When that guy calls, he's he's going to get the
better treatment from the publicist than somebody who ignored the
pitch before. That's right, um scratching a lot of back
scratchings in the machine. I've seen a lot more women
as bblicists and men, and I've always wonder why that
it's true. I don't know that that is true. In
researching this, I saw about an equal amount. I used
(09:07):
to think that as well, Um, but it seems like
there's an equal amount these days. It seems like every
publicist I've ever known has been a woman. And I
just figured just because women maybe more level headed and
uh more able to like smooth out a situation has
some big dumb guy. Um, but I guess the guys
who were publicists aren't big dumb guys like me. I'd
(09:28):
be a bad publicist. Oh yeah, So what would your
response to be if somebody called to find out what
stupid thing you're your client did or why they did
some stupid thing. I'd say, you know, what's really none
none of your business, bad publicist. Yeah well that was
something I ran across, as you know, saying something like
(09:50):
my client needs to privacy respected right now, we just
immediately shut down a relationship that you've cultivated over the years.
Do you have to give as a publicist you are
like you, there has to be something that you give,
so you better have something that will play kate the reporter,
but while also is probably not the truth, because that
(10:13):
reporter will go off and write the truth about your client,
and your client will have just gotten horrible publicity because
of you. It's a balancing act. Yeah, or they'll just
say let me send you get back from pet Segal.
You like the last one, right, Uh. But publicist may
also and it depends people that have a staff of
people working for them. Sometimes the lines are blurred on
(10:37):
who does what. But a publicist can arrange uh interview
requests and set all that stuff up. If you have
like a book tour, or your politician or your band
with a new album coming out, they might arrange all
those interviews, in which case they are prepping two things.
They are prepping the interviewer saying you can't ask about
(10:59):
the bucket of tequila. If you want this interview, i'll
give it to you, but this is off limits all
these things. And then, as we've learned when we've had
people work with us in publicity, they'll be prepping you
um on as the interviewee, like if they asked this,
this is how you should probably deal with it. Don't
answer that. Yeah, it's back to what you were And uh,
(11:22):
my favorite thing ever our videos where celebrities walk out
of interviews because the interviewer has asked something they weren't
supposed to ask. Those are great. Yeah, not to sit
around watch those all day. Yeah, you can probably find
a pretty good super cut of them. Yeah probably. So
all right, Well let's take a break and uh when
we come back, we will talk a little bit about
(11:44):
the skills you need as a publicist. All right, We've
mentioned lying and you know, I joke, but for real,
(12:06):
if you want to be a publicist, you better have
a certain comfort level with with stretching the truth and lying. Yeah,
because you're gonna have to do that. If you're not
comfortable with that, you shouldn't go into that line of work.
Is that safe to say? I think very. You need
to be good with people and cultivate those relationships. You
need to be a good writer. Well, not only do
you have to be a good writer, you have to
(12:27):
be a good journalist. And a lot of UM publicists
have a background in journalism because I kept running into
this in this article and another article you sent. The
number one rule of being a publicist is to think
like a journalist. Even better than that is to not
only think like a journalist, but be able to write
(12:47):
like a journalist too, because as we kind of demonstrated
that the publicist media relationship is a two way street.
The publicist needs the media to publicize and of adding
manner their client, But the media needs a publicist because
they've got deadlines and they need to come up with
story ideas. And if something is brought to them, that's great.
(13:11):
But that that media professional has a reputation to protect.
It can't be like, you know, Billy ray Cyrus got
off of his couch and mail to check for five
dollars to a local homeless shelter. Yeah, and they came
in a pressure release in a fax machine. That reporter
is not going to have a very good reputation. But
if a publicist comes to this reporter with a great headline,
(13:35):
creative pitch a good story that's tailored to that reporter
and they're beat and even more than that, tailored to
that reporters audience, there's a good likelihood that reporter will say,
I'm listening and that's just music to a publicist years sure,
just to be listened to. Yeah, that's when you throw
it into fifth year. Uh. You can't be afraid of rejection. UM,
(13:59):
you've got to be outgoing and you've got to take
your licks because a lot of your attempts are going
to fail just by nature of the job. So you
can't get your feelings all hurt. Yeah, you guess you could,
but you don't want to show that because then the
journalists would be like, jeez, Chuck, such a baby. You're
going to be eating a lot. I didn't run the
story and he's complaining I saw him choking up in
(14:20):
the bathroom. While they may get a good laugh out
of that, probably won't want to work with you as much. UM.
You gotta be very patient and you have to be
very flexible because if you're working for celebrities, it is
a very tough job. That's another thing too, So you
are Um, your hours are basically all hours whenever you're needed. Right.
(14:43):
So not only does your publicists frequently also have to
do other stuff or people associated with the publicist UM
have to do things like pick up things for the
the client, like um. In addition to that, like the
higher up you go on the food chain, which we'll
(15:04):
talk about in a minute. UM, the more that that
client feels a okay with emailing you at three in
the morning saying like, UM, I need to be reassured
about my celebrity status or whatever, um, and the publicist
needs to respond, you're basically on call all the time. Also,
at three in the morning, your client may have done
(15:25):
something really horrifically stupid and some paparazzi caught it and
now words starting to spread and you're fielding calls from
reporters at three in the morning to get a statement
on what your client did. Yeah. I mean when when
Twitter came out, I remember thinking at the time, like
publicists aren't gonna be around anymore because people are doing
this themselves. Well, they've actually figured out ways to use Twitter,
(15:49):
benefit ways to use Twitter. But Twitter is also their
biggest security blanket as well, because because of Twitter, more
and more celebrities are saying really stupid things at the
publicist is then going to have to cover their tracks,
so they'll take down the tweet and then try and
spend that or just you know, the apology is always
very funny to me awkward. Well, it's never like, did
(16:13):
you hear about Chris Carter, the NFL guy, he's a
former NFL player wide receiver. Yeah, he um is in
hot water this week because he spoke. Was hired by
the NFL to come in and speak to the rookies.
They often do that for guys that had been in trouble,
to come in and say, don't do what I did. Yeah,
(16:35):
sort of and um he said in his talk to
the Rookie Symposium said something about, you know, if you
get caught with you know, da da da da da,
he just make sure you have a fall guy on
your team, like the guy in the car that's like,
it's my weed. And he got in big trouble for that.
And his apology. His apology was was like that that's
(16:56):
not the kind of advice I would ever give young people.
It's like, but that's the advice you exactly gave young people, Like,
how can you say that days later? It's just so obvious.
It's a forced, insincere apology. So we either had a
bad publicist didn't listen to his publicist, because part of
the publicist job is when you're going to make the statement,
(17:19):
the public statement, the public apology, or whatever, the reasoning
behind it, the rationale, the um, the wording of it,
just the logic behind the apology is probably going to
be crafted by your publicists. At least help they're going
to help you with it. At the very least, they're
going to want to help you with it, right because
(17:41):
they're probably scared stupid that you're going to make it worse. Right,
And it sounds like there's a lot of crisis management
and that is a part of it, But publicists also
are just trying to cook up opportunities. Um. I think
that that's way more the day to day. Yeah, yeah,
for sure, depending on the client, of course. Um but
I remember our former boss Connell was in a band
(18:04):
years ago and I read online somewhere that his band
was I went to Elton John's do you remember this story?
Went to Elton John's house and spelled out their band
name and fire on his tennis court. I hadn't to
try and get on his label or something. That's a
great way to do it, I know, And I went
and asked it. I was like, dude, I can't believe
(18:26):
you guys did that. And he went we didn't do that.
I was like no, and he was like no, these
our publicists made that up. It's like nothing true about it.
And he's like no, they completely fabricated that story as
a publicity stunt that never happened. Uh. Yeah, So why
even go to the trouble of it where you can
just release a story that says that you did that
you hadn't that amazing when something like that could so
(18:47):
easily be fact check, like by calling Elton John Well,
that's the other thing. Like, I don't know, I don't know.
So I'm curious. I wonder how many media stories are
just totally fabricated matter of fact. You out there in
podcast land, let us know if you know a media
story that was just totally fabricated that everybody takes his fact.
(19:10):
We want to hear it. I love stuff like that.
I do too. Alright. We mentioned earlier that you might
end up getting the laundry or dry cleaning as a publicist,
if you're the publicist intern. Yeah, that's probably what's going
to happen, is you might get asked to go get
the laundry and then you will say, sure, I'll take
care of that for you, and then you will go
down the chain until you find the underling who was
(19:30):
trying to be a publicist who still does things like that. Right,
this person may or may not be in college, but
it's probably college age. That's something that I ran across.
If you want a career in as a publicist, you
do not need to spend a single penny on higher education.
The entire career of publicists begins as as a hands
(19:55):
on experience. You need to be in. You need to
be literate, You need to prob have a knack for
writing um in a journalistic way and crafting good headlines
and by proxy good email subject lines. But you don't
If you have that already before college, you don't need
to go to college. No, Like you can go in
(20:16):
major in journalism or communications or PR. But it's not
like you get that diploma, that PR diploma, and you're
gonna get like some entry level job as a publicist
and you're still gonna have to work your way out.
See it says right here, I have a PR degree,
So where's my job? My advice is to skip college
and go straight into the workforce as early as you can.
(20:37):
If this is what you want to do, you know,
I feel and I hope that there is becoming a
bigger understanding that there are certain fields out there. There
are careers out there where you don't have to go
to college, and there are careers out there where, like
you should go to a vocational school to learn that trade.
That college is not necessarily this end all be all,
(20:58):
that you have to spend money after money after money
to get a degree that might even not be used
in your field. But I mean that it needed a
degree to do what I'm doing. No one ever has
to see it, all right, And this is a this
is a perfect example of that, Chuck, Like, to be
a publicist, you do not need a degree. You need
hands on experience. You need basically what amounts to an apprenticeship.
(21:20):
That's right, Yeah, a good way to say it. So
go in and get that job in the mail room
or as an assistant or as an intern. Uh. And
it would be great if you still live at your
parents house at this point, because you're going to get
paid like next to nothing and you're going to be
doing all the grunt work. But if you are, if
you go in there with your mindset to I'm going
(21:41):
to learn this. I want to learn this and move up.
You're you're going to be in the right environment for
that absolutely. Uh. Like we said, you might be picking
up dry cleaning. You're going to be returning a lot
of phone calls, drafting a lot of um, probably not
so fun uh press releases that that is graduated from
the intern. Yeah. Well, I'm talking about being like a
(22:03):
junior assistant right after you get hired on. Yeah. Yeah,
and press releases that aren't like the sexy ones. You know, Um,
you're not gonna be writing like the press releases for
Billy Ray Cyrus in other words, No, those are sexy.
You'll be writing them for his dog, Okay, you know sure,
Freddie Freddie Cyrus, Freddie Freddie Cyrus. Okay. You are going
(22:28):
to be handling your publicists that you work for, their schedule, um,
their contacts. You're going to be putting together press skots
and epks electronic press skitts and blasting those out. Basically
all of the um nuts and bolts of the job
you're going to be doing as a junior uh staff
(22:51):
publicist or an assistant. Not a bad gig if that's
what you want to do and if you stick to
it and you're good at it, you're gonna end up
being a publicist. Not only are you getting the experience
you need on the job, you're also in a place
where your networking too, because that is probably tied for
first as far as like thinking like a journalist goes.
(23:11):
You need to be a pretty good networker. That's right,
And you know what, let's take a break and we
will talk more about networking and some of the skills
you still need. Cho Can I make a confession, I'm
(23:38):
possibly the worst networker on the planet. Uh, you didn't
have to tell me that I'm really bad at it. Yeah,
it's not your back, It isn't. Some people are good
at networking, pretty good at You're good at networking because
I enjoy it, and I don't consider it um networking
(23:58):
sounds like just doing something to serve you in the end.
I don't look at it that way. I look at
it like I enjoy making professional colleague, enjoy meeting and
getting to know professional colleagues, and then later on if
I can hit them up for something or if they
hit me up, that's great, But if not, it's just
(24:19):
something like you know, so, so the response to somebody
when they come and ask you for something you're like,
oh I saw this coming. That's not the way to respond.
Probably not. I'm trying to put myself out there a
little more. Oh yeah, yeah, Why is that just just?
I think that's a skill that everybody should have instead
(24:41):
of being like a misanthropic recluse, you know, put yourself
out there. I agree. Um, well, one of the skills
that I don't think we pinpointed was networking without seeming
like your networking, which is sort of the key what
I was just talking about. And I think maybe that
is it too, Like I feel like networking is a task.
Is if I just relaxed and enjoyed it and like
(25:03):
just you know, communing with a fellow human being, isn't
that what it's all about? It's all it is like that,
then I'm sure it would be much more relaxing. Um.
I read a blog and I sent it to you,
and I want to shout them out because they sonic
(25:25):
bids S O N I C B I D S.
It's a blog where they did an interview that was
pretty insightful. Actually, they did a double interview, a dual
interview with Julie Lichtenstein, a thirty seven Media and Lily
Golightly of Golightly Media, And I think they worked with
bands and musical artists mainly, but it was super insightful
(25:49):
and they said, Um, just some little tidbits here, Like
I was always curious how they get paid, um, And
I think if you're a publicist for a person and
like you were on retainer, then you just get a
salary um, or if you're part of a firm that
just works for that person. But you can also just
be hired for a campaign. Right, So if you're a
(26:10):
band and you have gone to the trouble of like
going in and hiring a producer to produce your album,
and like you've made a studio quality album that you're
proud of, you might want to hit everybody up or
gather around another two grand to hire a publicist for
a month to release that album correctly. And like just
(26:32):
hiring a publicist isn't going to automatically make it great.
Like you need to say, can we see some of
the other campaigns you've run? What are your ideas for
this campaign? Um? Who have some of your clients been
in the past? Um? What are what are what's some
of the press that you've gotten. Yeah, you don't want
to just be like throw a dart at a phone book,
(26:55):
do your research because it's too grand and you're an
upcoming band and that's just that's not chump change. But
if you if you look at it as a wise investment,
and you do invest in wisely and a good publicist,
it could make a huge difference for you. Agreed. Um.
This Julie said that, Uh, they try and get out
for for a major artist, three or four months ahead
(27:17):
of the release of the album is when they want
to start their job. So it's not like, hey, it
drops next week, let's think of some good ideas, you know,
they want some good lead time. Uh. And they said
that they like to work around goals. Um, if they're
if it's like a tour, like for us going on
our tour, we don't have a publicist, but we have
(27:40):
promoters working with venues that sort of do the job
of a publicist as far as trying to sell tickets. Um.
But if you are booking a tour and you have
a publicist, they're going to be the ones that are
getting you on the local radio stations, morning TV, getting
you in the local newspaper or alternative newspaper to get
(28:01):
you some pressed. And this is I mean if you
have um, like, this is stuff you can do yourself.
But one of the things that you are hiring when
you hire a publicists their contexts, Like you don't have
the context, you're just the band. One of the problems
is that you are it's going to be tough for
you to think objectively, like you're not gonna understand why
(28:23):
every journalist you talked to doesn't want to automatically do
a long form piece on how great your band is.
Publicists is going to be dispassionate enough and removed enough
that they can see it objectively through a journalists size
and then pitch it in a way that's probably going
to get better, um more more bites. Yeah, that's a
(28:43):
good way to put it. Because the artists we've even
experienced this is the ones who gets their feelings or
saying like, oh man, that you know they interviewed us
last time, why did they do it this time? And
they're always great about massaging the ego a little bit,
saying like it's okay, guys, there's no big deal, because um,
that doesn't do much for anyway. Lie, right, we got
this other thing that's better lie right. Um. The other
(29:07):
thing they're gonna be doing if they work for you,
is are gonna be sending you, uh weekly or bi
weekly reports on what's lined up, who passed on stuff,
who who bit um stuff like that, Like they're keeping
you informed. You're not just like in a black hole.
And some artists like to be well in touch on
that stuff. And some probably don't care about being bothered.
(29:29):
They just want to be on Man. Conan shot in
Atlanta fifteen minutes from our house where we live, and
we couldn't get on Conan and it was while our
TV show is debuting. You don't have to remind me.
Let's talk Penny C. Santi Vieri, Yeah, from HuffPo. She
(29:53):
is the author and CEO of Marketing Experts, Inc. And
she listed out nine things that a good publicist does.
What's number one? Chuck? Can you guess? I think like
a journalist? That's right. You already said that and you
were right. It's the number one rule. Number two rules,
know the rules, right, You gotta play within the game
(30:14):
if you start and you can bend rules, but if
you start breaking them, people have a long memory. Well here, yeah,
if you go on and read. Um, just type the
phrase rules of pitching and publicity into your favorite search
engine and it will bring up Apparently one of the
journalist things journalists like to do in their downtime is
(30:35):
right lengthy blog post mocking pr and publicists don't follow
the rules of pitching. So, um, one of the rules
is no phone calls. You just don't use the phone email. Yeah,
especially if you're cold calling people like I guess if
you have a relationship with somebody, you can pick up
the phone and column, but you you don't send an
(30:58):
email blast and then a day later follow up on
the email by phone. Apparently that's the worst thing you
can do. Yeah, you don't want to bug people, know,
and it's very easy to come off as like pestering
a reporter as publicist. So you need to know the rules,
or your publicist needs to know the rules. Here's a
(31:20):
good one that I didn't think about reading outside of
your market. I'm sure it's pretty easy to just think
New York in l A, Like, what else do I
need to know about? Well, not even that. It's like, um,
if you're a band outside of your industry, yeah, you know,
and just start to think of like, oh, well, we
actually sing this song about the oil industry and oil
(31:41):
prices are going through the roofs, so maybe maybe the
Today Show would want to talk to us about our songs.
I didn't think about that. I'd be a great publicist.
I'm terrible at networking. UM, Google alerts. That's kind of
a no brainer. I would think. UM, understanding the importance
of local met the that's a good one because while
(32:02):
your artist is not gonna be super stoked about appearing
on Good Morning Toledo, Hey, if there's a tie like
you're from Toledo, like you, then that's probably a smart
thing to do because the local media loves people that
were from there that moved away. Plus, UM, Mrs sance
(32:22):
Cvari makes this point or miss santy Viry sorry, um
makes this point that, Um, you never know where a
local contact is going to end up. Sure might hit
the big time. They might work for USA Today in
a couple of months. Yeah, it doesn't get bigger than that. Uh.
And if they if they hit the big time on
their end and they have you as like a contact,
(32:43):
it could help you out big time. That's right. Uh.
And then earlier you mentioned something about subject lines for emails.
I never really thought about this, but um, Penny says,
can I call her Penny? You can't in the first
name basis I call her miss san Sivilleri. Okay, what's
She says that crafting a subject line is one of
the most important things that you can do as a publicist,
(33:06):
and that they agonize over this, and it makes total
sense with the glut of emails that people receive, especially journalists. Uh,
you want to grab their attention otherwise it's just going
to be by bye time. So but you also have
to redrafting, editing, tweaking, she says. It's just like maddening
(33:26):
how much you have to do that. Yeah, that would
drive me crazy. Yeah, because it's the minutia. So much
importance on the minutiae. But it's true, and you have
to you have to put a lot of thought into it.
But you also probably can't come off as having put
too much thought into where else it seems desperate, which
she'll turn somebody off. Publicists want to kill journalists and
(33:47):
vice versa. Yeah, it sounds like a weird relationship for sure,
you know, and then also, did you look up media leads?
So basically there's services out there where journalists say I
need a quote on I'm doing a piece on nuclear fusion,
and I don't even know what that is. So the
source and then this this this UM service that the
(34:11):
journalist calls puts out like a daily year's you know,
maybe even more than once a day newsletter blasts to
PR people who pay for the service, and then they
go through and say, oh, I've actually got a nuclear
physicist on my payroll, and I'm I'm going to connect him.
We've been connected that way before, huh, when we had
(34:33):
different PR firms working for worth US at times UM
they've gotten in touch and say it said so and
so at SpaceX UM wants to know if you want
to come on and talk about this or when we
did that stuff on ABC about when the housing crisis hit. Yeah,
because we're financial experts. Yeah, so stuff like that. Yeah,
I guess it used to come across our desk every
(34:54):
now and then. Well, there's there's subscription services that connect
people through leads. From what I'm seeing is Twitter is
now I'm filling that void a lot where you can
just search Twitter for the hashtag h A r oh,
help a reporter out the reporters um. And then also
I guess there's a lot of PR tastemakers out there
(35:15):
um that are just super connected and will basically tweet
a lead and you don't have to pay a thousand
dollars a more for that subscription service. You just follow
certain people on Twitter, and as a PR person, you
might have somebody that's a client that you connect. Yeah,
the whole that whole new job of being an aggregator
a curator like that. Yeah, like people do that and
(35:37):
that's all they do. But we also live in an
age where people are famous for being famous. Man, I
need to take back a little bit about my tirade
about liars. I think that what I'm talking about our
people publicists for like big celebrities and stuff like that.
Like we've had publicists work with us and at that
(36:01):
of the clients that they work with are like people
like us, where you don't have to like lie and spend. Yeah,
we're always on our best behavior. Yeah, it's just you know,
regular stuff like let me find a good opportunity for
you and connect to you. And so it's I was overstating,
and I think that's just the far edge of the
celebrity end of things, because I just got to thinking
about what if they're listening. I don't want them to
(36:22):
think I didn't think they were doing a good job.
He did a great job. We'll wait to back off
of that one, Chuck. I got one more little thing
on Jim Moron Moran. You just said moron m O
R A N. I think Moran not the way the
friends say moron. Uh. He is was known as the
(36:43):
master of the publicity stunt back in the day. Like
he did things. What his big thing was was to
take a saying and try and disprove it, like for
a company. So he literally went to Alaska on behalf
of g E to sell a refrigerator to Uh, well
it says an s come out. But I guess in
any wits what you would say today. Um, he walked
(37:04):
a bull through a china shop in New York City
is a stunt. I think they broke some things. He
got on a horse for a politician and changed directions
midstream on the horse like rode it through a river
and change directions like you can't do this. Uh. And
then in nine nine for the Premier of the Mouse
(37:24):
That Roared the Great Peter Seller's movie he opened an embassy.
Remember the movie was about a small country that declared
war in a big country because they wanted to declare
war in the US and then surrender and then get
financially from around the world because their economy was but
they ended up winning or something. I don't he opened
an embassy in Washington for a mythical country. Yeah. Speaking
(37:48):
of By the way, I finally saw a Doctor Strangelove. Oh,
really great movie, one of the best. It's up there
for sure, one of the best satires. Let's say it
is a great movie. Great movie. And Peter Seller's man
just he did great. But also I mean, like George C.
Scott was amazing, and he was amazing. And the guy
I can't remember his name that played the colonel or whatever,
(38:11):
the one who lost his marvels. Yea, yeah he was.
He was so good. Everybody was slim Slim Chills or
slim Pickins, Slim Pickins Chills. Yeah, there's Chili. Chill Wills
was another like what country Western actor, Chill Wills, I
think is his name, Chill Wills. You'd recognize him if
(38:32):
you saw his face, Okay, Chill Wills, All right, of course,
Chill Wills makes an appearance and How Publicist Works episode No,
I got nothing else, Thank goodness. If you want to
know more about publicists, you can take this word in
the search part how stuff Works dot com? And I
said search parts was time for listening to mail Did
(38:54):
have one more thing? What was that movie America's Sweethearts?
Did you ever see that? With John cusack Down? You
know Billy Crystal was played a publicist a pain in
the butt Hollywood couple. Oh, best, best portrayal of a
publicist is on Seinfeld. The mom from that seventies show Members.
She played Seinfeld's publicist. Oh she was. Yeah, she tried
(39:18):
to get the airline pilot kicked out of Jerry's show
and he ended up getting I think it's the one
where Kramer's at JFK or LaGuardia. He's making bets on
arrivals and he ends up using the son of Sam
mail Bag as collateral. Right, great episode, but the mom
from that seventies show played Jerry's publicist. Yeah, who was
(39:40):
also on Friends? What was she friends? She played Phoebe's
half brother. Giovanni Ribisi played his girlfriend or wife, Oh yeah,
which is a weird like a mismatch couples, and I
think they were. They got her to be a surrogate
for them. Okay, when Lisa Kudro got pregnant realized, I
think it's how he handled it. We have watched a
(40:02):
lot of all right, I'm gonna call this one. Uh uh.
We were actually right, and this lady was nice at
the dinner party. How's that perspic luve? Okay, hey, guys,
have a little story. I was at a small dinner
party where the host was making his own sea salt.
(40:22):
The topic about It's one of those dinner parties. The
topic of kosher salt came up, so I dropped the
fact from Your Salt episode that Kasher salt is actually
just salt used for drawing blood out of meat to
make a kosher not salt blessed by a rabbi, and
the fellow guest disagreed, which I responded, I'm quite true
about this. The host then said, raise your hand if
you're Jewish, and the guy that disputed me raised his
(40:43):
hand felt rather embarrassed while he explained to me what
kosher means and that salt also goes through the same
kosher process that would ever explained how I backed down
and didn't try to defend the fact that I just
told It's not that I doubted you guys, though I
jokingly said I'd write any mail to complain, but it's
because appeal is disrespectful to correct someone on their own heritage.
(41:04):
Good move. I also didn't want to start any petty
debate with someone at someone else's dinner party, also a
good move, so I decided to take in the embarrassment
while he was explaining what pocher is at the same
time eating a splite of pasta with Rizo. I hope
you find this amusing. Please keep up the good work.
If you read on the show, please give a shout
out to my friend Amber, who introduced me to the show.
(41:26):
And that is from Chloe uh to say. So, wait
a minute, Chuck, were we right and the guy was wrong?
We were right. The Jewish guy was wrong because I
looked it up today just to be sure, and apparently
kosher salt is kosher because in fact, they said it
should be called koshering salt. Yeah, because it's used to
make things kosher. It is not the salt itself, it's kosure.
(41:48):
It would have kept Chloe out of that kind of
suspostion Chloe, it sounds like you have a lot of
tact and dignity, yes, and that it sounds like, yeah,
the guy's a bit of a chlow part. I'm not
ruining the dinner party. So that is from Chloe in Sydney, Australia.
Thank you. If you want to get in touch with us,
we want to hear about all of your misadventures out
(42:10):
there based on Stuff you Should Know. You can tweak
to us at s y s K podcast. You can
join us on Facebook dot com slash Stuff you Should Know.
You can send us an email to Stuff Podcast at
how stuff Works dot com and has always joined us
at our home on the web, Stuff you Should Know
dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics,
(42:32):
does it how stuff Works dot com
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