March 10, 2011 • 37 mins
It's a controversial idea, to say the least: If evidence shows that addicts tend to be irresponsible, abusive parents, then why should they have children at all? In this podcast, Josh and Chuck explore the practice (and legality) of sterilizing addicts.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know
from house Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant
(00:20):
that makes this stuff you should know the podcast The
Addiction right, yea? How do I just realize I was
giving all kinds of awesome sign language but no one
can see that. I could see it just having a
beneficial effect on me, pumping you up. Yeah, um, Chuck, Josh,
you doing good? Great? Good, almost good. I'm great. It's
(00:41):
Friday afternoon. Glad to hear that. Dude. You're about to
go on vacation too. I am. You're probably pretty excited, right,
I am very y'all even tonight tomorrow morning? Awesome? Yes,
you're ready, Yes, Chuck. Yes. Do you know the economic
cost for child abuse in the United States? I do,
but I won't ruin it. It's massive. Let's talk about it,
(01:03):
because you can chart anything. Yeah, it kind of money
to good at that, and they're really good at that. UM.
You've got direct costs like UM foster care programs, law enforcement,
hospital care, medical costs, that kind of thing. Um, you've
got indirect costs like funding the court system, right, loss
(01:23):
of productivity for all the people who have to like
go to be on a jury, all that kind of thing.
A hundred and four billion dollars in two thousand seven
is what child abuse costs the US, right, Josh, that
sounds almost like more money than we spend on education
in the United States. It was it was that year,
(01:44):
well the year before. Yeah, yeah, and then interesting it's
interesting and said, yeah, um, so if you have no heart,
but dollar signs really makes sense to you, you can
agree that child abuse is a bad thing. Right. Uh,
if you do have a heart, then child abuses bad thing.
Either way, it's a bad thing. Um. Child abuse, though,
(02:05):
is not necessarily all just battering children or sexually molesting children.
There's also and most of them are cases of neglect. Yeah,
they have a stat here eighty six point six percent
or neglect. And they surveyed some child welfare workers and
is an awkward stat but it is of them estimated
(02:27):
that about half of their neglect cases were from drug
drug addicted parents, which makes sense. It does drugs. You're
not going to provide care for your child adequately. Um.
There's another study found that children who are born addicted
to drugs, meaning that they have drug addicted parents who
did drugs while they were pregnant, or drug addicted mothers
(02:50):
at least um, those kids are two to three times
more likely to be abused than non addicted children. I
would argue that they're already abused, that's that's a good point,
but even later on that they are much more likely
to become abused, probably through neglect, because if you are like,
I really need to score some crack, you're not gonna
(03:12):
be like, but first I need to make sure my
child has a healthy dinner. I gotta pump and dump
before I go out and hit the streets. That's another
thing too. Um. So, what we've just done, and what
is not very difficult, we've connected, um, drug addicted parents
to child abuse. We started out with child abuse is bad, right,
Why don't we just sterilize drug addicts so they can't
(03:33):
have any kids. That sounds like a great idea, does it? Uh?
It sounds like an idea that's actually being done, is
what that sounds like. And I have my dancing shoes
on for this podcast because this is tricky business dude. Yeah,
you can see both sides. It's the slady. Barbara Harris
(03:53):
makes some points where I think interesting point. Plus she
has some cred. Let's talk about her real quick. Barbara
Harris is the founder of some thing called Commune or
Children Require a Caring Community crack because community spell to
the K. Yeah, that's I can't believe she stretched that.
She is a former International House of Pancakes waitress who
(04:14):
is a mother, a biological mother to six children and
an adopted mother to four African American children who are
born to a drug addicted mother. She walks the walk.
She spent her days driving the United States in an
RV promoting her UM organization, the main purpose of which
(04:35):
is to carry out what's called project prevention, which is
what we just mentioned chuck sterilizing addicts. Yeah, and we
should say that her r V is not any ordinary
r V. It has the whole thing is decorated with
a huge picture of a dead baby, um, a line
of crack, cocaine, I believe, a razor blade, and then
(04:56):
some things just don't go together. Is the quote? Is
that right? I couldn't find that one. I've I read
that in a time article, I think, but Um, I
saw a picture of the one that she's using in
the UK, and it's a picture of a baby crying
and it says, Uh, she has her father's eyes and
her mother's heroin addiction. So she has a knack for
getting her message out there. And one of the ways
(05:16):
she has done that, aside from her RV, is a
string of billboards in the nineties in Los Angeles that
UM had taglines like don't let pregnancy ruin your drug habit. Yeah,
it's gonna get some attention, yep. Or I think there's
another one who's like, UM, like drugs, are you pregnant,
gets sterilized? Get three bucks or something like that, which
(05:37):
basically is like gets sterilized, We'll give you three hundred
dollars in drug money. Well, there you go. That the
cats out of the bag. Um, that's what we're doing there. Well,
there's a lot of ways to look at this. It
is a bribe too. It's a bribe to drug addicts
who will in most cases spend there this money on
drugs to give up their fertility. This woman is buying
(06:00):
drug addicts fertility through her her program. Another way to
look at it is that she is taking a lot
of the burden off of the state. Um, who are
we're going to eventually be charged with caring for these children?
Were not yet conceived. Uh, And like we said, originally
there were billboards, flyers, aggressive methods like hanging out at
(06:24):
A meetings and n A meetings and basically, um, Barbara
Harris's view is that if you've ever been addicted, even
if you're clean, now just go ahead and get sterilized
because you've kind of given up your right to have children.
She doesn't see um reproduction as a right, which is
what makes her very contentious to most people, very controversial
(06:48):
thing that she's doing here. Yes, clearly, so, Chuck, how
does this work? Do you know? Well, Josh, Um, it's
important to point out that she will only accept someone
into the program it already has one child, at least
one at least one child, You're right, and Um, they
the drug addict will have to fill out the paperwork
(07:10):
and have their counselor probably social counselor or judge appointed
counselor sign something that says they are in fact drug addicts,
or a social work or in a rest report. They
have to prove your drug addict. First off, got to
prove it and then that you can either be sterilized
or you can go on long term birth control. Right
(07:31):
and um, if you go on birth control, you get
two hundred bucks. You UM get a hundred up front, right,
a hundred when you sign a contract that says I
will do this and keep it up in a hundred
after you prove that you're you're doing it, or you
get three hundred bucks. Here's what they do. This is
a bystander organization. They don't provide any kind of clinics
where you where they perform the sterilization. Basically, what they
(07:54):
do is say, prove to us you're a drug addict. Okay,
we believe you're a drug addict. You're not qualified. Sign
this contract. It says you'll go do this. Now, go
do it. Get Medicaid or Medicare to pay for your
sterilization programs, so you and I are paying for this
pre sterilization. And then come bring us a note from
the doctor that says that this happened, that proves that
this procedure happened, that you're sterilized, and here's your three
(08:16):
d bucks. And hey, if you bring by one of
your crack addic buddies. We'll give you another fifty bucks
if they do it. Yep, I always got to pay
the referral fee. Yeah, so no strings attached except for
a contract. That's another problem too. There isn't any kind
of counseling now. It's just no parent classes, no parenting classes,
no UM drug cessation programs. It's just here's some money
(08:40):
to go give up your reproduction, your ability to reproduce.
And since uh, it's founding, I'm sorry. Within thirteen years
of its founding, UM she has worked with more than
thirty seven hundred drug addicts in the United States, and
about a third of those were sterilized from my math
roughly the rest I guess or on long term birth control. Wow.
(09:06):
And now she's making a way to the UK and
she wants to go to Kenya for women with HIV
and AIDS. Yeah. So that's pretty successful in the US,
and thirteen years in the UK she's finding a much
harder time of it. Um. Well, she's getting a lot
more flak. Yeah, but she got support to begin with
us is the reading. She went over there, some anonymous
(09:26):
donor gave her twenty grand and she got a lot
of the BBC did a special on her and she
got a bunch of phone calls saying please come over here,
and then the anonymous Downer came along gave her twenty grand.
She says that she took that as a sign signs
she started to set up in in the UK and
if you go on the Project Prevention website, it says, um,
(09:47):
there's a UK tab that you can click. Um, so
she is set up in the UK, and then you
also mentioned Kenya. She's getting probably the most grief of
all for Kenya. Understandably. Basically, she it has decided that
not only can you break the cycle of addiction by
taking away the ability to reproduce among addicts, you can
cure AIDS by just letting everybody who has AIDS die
(10:09):
out and not reproduced, basically children with AIDS or hiv UM.
In both cases, it depends on how who you are
and how you're looking at it, because there are definitely
people out there who support this, the Kenya AIDS Initiative
and sterilizing addicts, because in both cases what you're looking
(10:30):
at is uh an end do a perceived cycle where
everything else is failing. It's not necessarily the case. Though
there is drug treatment for drug addiction, there are drugs
that can treat HIV. UM. There are also educational programs
that you can teach people to to take better care,
(10:53):
take preventative measures. This lady is not interested in that
and in the I mean it's a part of the state,
the government medical program here seeing well, yeah, I guess
you can get birth control for free. Here came Medicaid Medicare.
That's how this thing is functioning. Addicts go get these
procedures or their birth control for free, for through texpayer
(11:14):
funding programs like medicaid medicare, and she's given them three bucks. Um,
just go talk about Kenya for a second longer. Did
you look at that? Uh? Now, I didn't look much
into it. Actually, she found a doctor who said that
he'll he'll insert i U d S, which is long
term birth control, but it's temporary, it's reversible, for seven
bucks a pop. And then her organization will pay UM
(11:36):
women with HIV AIDS UM forty bucks for it. So
forty seven bucks a person. She's just buying their reproductive
abilities in Kenya. There are a lot of people who
are frustrated by that. I'm sure. So Chuck, how is
any of this legal? Well, Uh, Planned Parenthood is one
(11:57):
organization that says, you know what, this is possibly illegal.
Uh if you're talking contract law, because there's something when
you have a vasectomy or any kind of sterilization that says, uh,
informed consent, like you have to be in there of
your own free will. It's not h Daddy isn't out
in the car forcing you to go in and get
(12:17):
your tubes tied. That kind of thing. Um they basically
you're saying that you know this three d bucks is coercive,
it's a bribe, and it's not informed consent going on. No,
because if if, if there's a bribe involved, Yeah, you can't,
like informed consent can exist medicaid in medicare requires informed consent.
(12:38):
But here's the loophole. The informed consent has to be
between the patient and the provider. Project prevention is a
third party and interested third party who is really not
involved in that equation. And the court protects the lady
going into get her tubes tied. Yes, And the court's
protecting the lady who's paying the US and to go
(13:00):
get their tubes tied. Because this is even though like
it's it's um extremely unethical and immoral in some people's eyes.
It is still technically illegal because the provider of the
sterilization services not giving this this person three d bucks.
Someone else's here too. Of her arguments which made me
(13:21):
at least sit back and think for a minute about
what the heck is going on here, because this is,
like I said, this is a narrow line this lady's walking,
so I might say she's way way over it. Uh.
One of the arguments used against her is that these
um women are not in their right mind to decide
to have this procedure done. They're on drugs. You're given
(13:41):
him this money. So her argument back is so they're
not of sound mind enough to have this procedure, but
they're of sound mind enough to decide to have a kid. Yeah,
it's a good argument. Her other big argument is against
her is that you're taking away a woman's right to
choose to have a baby essentially, and her are gim
and reverses, Well, why is that right more important than
(14:03):
a child's right to be born into a normal environment
and have a shot at a normal life. So I
believe that she is not necessarily trying to create some
pure race of smart white people. I think she is
trying to stop crack babies from being born, but she's
(14:23):
doing it is definitely stirred the pot. The impression I
have is that even this lady's critics are UM say
that she's a true believer. Yeah, she's not, Like, she's
not a social engineer. She doesn't see it like that.
The problem is is, like I think a lot of
people are worried about where she's getting her funding. UM,
(14:44):
her largest donor apparently UM. Crack and Project Prevention have
about five thousand dollars a year in operating budget ok UM,
which I guess is enough to fund to fuel the
RV around the country and keep the website going and
pay as many addicts as possible. UM. But most of
(15:04):
that money is coming from a guy who is a
billionaire named Richard Mellen Scafe. Right. I hadn't either, but
he's apparently UM on the right right hand of the
spectrum politically. Yeah. He runs the Pittsburgh Tribune, which is
a right wing newspaper as far as its leanings UM,
(15:26):
and he The idea of a billionaire funding a project
like that scares the tar out of people because it
gives it a classist, um bent. Even if this lady
is a former eyehop waitress, if the people who are
giving her the money to do this indefinitely are billionaires,
(15:47):
then what what you're talking about is how one person
put it. Um, you have a structure in which the
economically privileged can and do dictate who will and who
won't have children end quote, which means you're you're on crack,
or you're black, or we've decided that you're unfit to reproduce,
(16:09):
but instead of forcing it, we're gonna pay you. But really,
what's the difference. Yeah, I mean, it's a nonprofit quote unquote,
but a nonprofit funded by a billionaire. It's different kind
of nonprofit, you know what I'm saying. Another criticism is
um that it is racially disproportionate. Um. She will point
out that a thousand clients were African American, whereas more
(16:32):
than eight hundred have been white. But Um, as far
as percentages of population goes, it's it's skewed heavily towards blacks. Yeah,
that makes a lot of sense if you I mean,
in hard numbers, it's like, well, there's way more white
people than black people who have taken part in this.
But if you look at the proportion of the population UM,
seventies something percent of the US population is white, whereas
(16:54):
only like about thirteen percent is black, So those numbers
actually are very disproportioned new UM and also the original
billboards targeted low income, predominantly African American areas of Los
Angeles at the beginning. UM. I think ultimately what scares
people is that even if this is an addicts choice,
(17:17):
even if you agree, this addict is making their own decision,
and in some cases there are UM. In this time article,
there's a woman named Joe and Chavarria, and she's just
like this model participant. There's a quote from her that said,
like when you stop having kids, that makes you think
about what else you can do in life. She already
has five kids, the state has custody of them. She
(17:38):
got sterilized and took her three hundred dollars and bought
Easter presence and educational toys for her children, who she's
trying to get back. She already had three kids, and
then she gave birth to two drug addicted twins because
she was addicted to meth um. She started doing math
at eight months pregnant. Yeah, which is not a good
time to start doing myth start. That's a particular bad
(18:00):
time to start. I would agree with that. Um. Yeah,
so she's a poster child. She is. But even if
she's walking around, right, the the whole idea that that
reproduction in reproductive rights should and could be controlled by
other people, whether they're a private organization funded by a
(18:20):
billionaire um or the government smacks of the eugenics movement.
We've already done this before and it's it proved horrific. Right,
we need to talk about eugenics, we definitely do. Let's
do it well. Remember it came up in the Crimes
Them Photography, Uh our podcast? Right, Yes, it was a
big deal in the US. Yeah. When did it start? Night?
(18:42):
Turn of the Century night, early early twentieth century. Eugenics
was a movement a concept that you could create a
fitter human species if you removed undesirable traits UM like
chronic disease, UM, low socio economic status. Do you want
to hear with this this model law for eugenics. Yeah,
we'll say what the model law is first. Who was
(19:03):
it that came up with that? A guy named Harry Laughlin? Um.
He was the head of the Eugenics Record Office, and
I remember at the time in the the um this
was nineteen fourteen that he came up with the Model Law.
There was this idea that, like you said, Chuck, you
could create a fitter human race by basically weeding out
the undesirable elements and we just letting the healthy, robust
ones reproduce. Simple as pie, you get yourself a nice
(19:27):
arian race boys from Brazil, right, Um, So to to
carry this out. Most people who are unfit don't really
consider themselves unfit, and even worse, in a lot of cases, Um,
one of the sure signs that they are socially unfit
is that they're sexually promiscuous. So you gotta take matters
(19:48):
into your own hands. And the government has to force
sterilization through the courts and not just formiscus. Should we
read out some of the things in the law. Well
this these are the undesirables, take it, Chuck, the feeble minded,
the saying, criminalistic, the epileptic, the inebriate, the disease, the blind,
the deaf, the deformed and dependent and orphans, near do wells, tramps,
(20:11):
homeless and pauper's The only thing I don't see in
here is skullduggery. Right, I'm surprised that's probably in here somewhere. Actually,
So that was the model law for UM forced government
mandated sterilization. You know, people who are targeting. Yeah, this
is the US UM. And by this by the time
this model law was created, UM, a couple of states
(20:33):
already had their own compulsory sterilization laws based on the
idea of eugenics. Right. I think Indiana and Connecticut were hot,
hot on, hot on the trail. Yeah. California came fairly
late to the game. UM. In the early to mid twenties,
they had a law. But by that time, by UM,
(20:54):
hundred of the three thousand people who had been forced
to be sterilized under this law UM or in California.
And one of the ideas behind it was that it
was a tax saving measure. Right. The really interesting considering
today's it sounds very familiar. UM. The U. S. Supreme
(21:18):
Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes very famously said something that
might also sound familiar as far as logic goes. UM.
He said, quote, it is better for all the world if,
instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or
to let them starve for their imbecility. Society can prevent
those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. And
(21:41):
he finished up, and we'll talk about this case. Was saying,
three generations of imbeciles are enough. He's talking about Carrie Buck.
And she was a seventeen year old in Charlottesville, Virginia.
She was the first person chosen to be sterilized in
Virginia under the Dow Model law. She had a kid,
but was not married. Her mother was in an insane
(22:04):
asylum called the Virginia Colony for the epileptic and the
feeble minded. It's not a place you want to visit
and not leave. Uh. And here's her story. She was
um picked because they thought that she shared hereditary traits
with her mother, a feeble minded, feeble mindedness, and sexual promiscuity. Uh.
(22:25):
They thought it was genetic. She already had one kid,
and they thought, you know what, it's probable that she's
gonna have a socially inadequate child after this, and let's
sterilize her. Let's make her case number one in Virginia.
Took her. They went to court. Um, it went all
the way to the Supreme Court. Um, people testified against
her that she had a record of immorality and uh, syphilis, prostitution,
(22:49):
and untruthfulness. So the judge said, okay, let's sterilize her.
And it was upheld. And it was upheld because that
Oliver Wendell Holmes decision, that quote came from the majority
opinion that yeah, we should go ahead and sterilize this girl.
And she was sterilized. But what happened, Josh afterwards, Well,
what we her kid was studied UM tremendously. This was
(23:12):
not like, uh, there was popular, widespread support for eugenics
in the US, but there are also plenty of people
who are like, what are you doing? This is the
worst thing we've ever done. Um. So her kid, UM,
Vivian Buck was UM was followed her. A lot of
stuff was not entered into the public record when during
(23:34):
carry Buck's trial or hearings. UM. For one, she wasn't promiscuous.
She was raped by her foster parents relative right, um.
And then Vivian was not a an example of a
third generation feeble minded person. She was a solid beast
student apparently and was on the honor roll. UM. That
was her first grade report card. So basically this woman
(23:56):
was the the test case to keep seralization going or
to really get it going, proved fraudulent in the end.
Well not only that, but her defense lawyer, it turns
out this was later uncovered, conspired with the lawyer for
the Insane Asylum to guarantee that would be upheld. So
it was completely fraudulent. Uh, but it was upheld in
(24:20):
Virginia and eight three hundred Virginians were sterilized after that
Buck versus Bell case eight thousand, three hundred. UM. Harry Laughlin,
the guy who was running the eugenics record office and
who wrote that model law in nineteen fourteen. He went
on to get a mob um a medal from the
Nazi government in nineteen thirty three for um his his
(24:44):
contribution to the science of racial cleansing from the University
of Heidelberg got an honorary degree. And UM, I didn't
know this, but apparently the Rockefeller Foundation funded the German
I can't remember with the name of the the research facility,
but funded the German res for search facility where this
(25:05):
was being born. Over there where is Mingla is that
is that the Guy Rockfeller Center was funding them at
the time too. And then Nazi says, this is a
great idea, and we'll go on to sterilize thy thousand people.
And it turns out that's not even enough, so we're
just gonna start killing them. Right. So, if if you
start people to say, like, oh, what could something ever
(25:27):
lead to, you never know what it could lead to. Well,
in the US, in the United States, UM, it led
to a thirty three states with compulsory sterilization laws on
the books that continued into the nineteen seventies. We were
sterilizing the mentally retarded in the US. I was alive,
I was born, and this was going on UM and
(25:50):
ultimately about sixty thou people lost their ability to reproduce
UM at the hands of the US government. UM. And
this the guy who wrote this great paper, he's actually
a pretty much an expert on the eugenics movement in
the US. His name is Paul Lombardo. He's a University
of Virginia professor. UM. He points out that the Carrie
(26:11):
Buck case that basically allows compulsory sterilization of feeble minded
people is still on the books. It's not overturned. Yeah,
but it's one of those it's not you couldn't do
it today, But wouldn't it be interesting if that came
up and somebody when somebody ultimately challenges project prevention. I
have a list of people who supported eugenics. Are you
(26:34):
going to call him out? And this is not to
say that they supported sterilization, because eugenics had a lot
more to do with It was broader than just sterialization.
But Woodrow Wilson, uh Margaret Sanger, who is the founder
of Planned Parenthood, who was a lightning rod her self
in her time, and now Planned Parenthood is criticizing Barbara Harris,
(26:58):
which really says something. Oliver Wendell Holmes obviously we mentioned him. H. G. Wells,
Teddy Roosevelt, John Maynard Keynes, and George Bernard Shaw are
just a few who thought eugenics was pretty good idea
at the Charles Lindbergh did you see him? No? No, no,
was he in there? Remember he was all about Darwin
and Limberg. Really I didn't know Limberg was in there.
(27:22):
It wasn't that one article you sent me. No, that
was for trans humanism, right, but it was for certain
people it was based on genics. So Chuck Um, like
you said, you had your dancing shoes on, and I
can appreciate that. Should we talk about Jack Skinner real
quick though, or do you want to? Well? Yeah, because
that was when it was actually struck down in two
(27:44):
Oklahoma criminal Um. They were going to start sterilizing criminals
or they had been already probably right, repeat criminals, repeat criminals.
And he was a chicken thief and uh an armed robber.
And this went to court in justice William ou Douglas
struck it down and had a very good point. He said,
you're not gonna essentially I'm paraphrasing, you're not gonna sterilize
(28:08):
at three time in Besler, all right, but you'll sterilize
a chicken thief. So it comes back to class once again. Yeah,
and then then that's where we are again. Um again,
you did a good job with your dancing shoes. I'm
dancing nice. Um. Depending on how you feel about it,
this isn't going anywhere. This lady has been doing this
(28:30):
for thirteen years and it first got attention, like right
when she first started doing it. She gets attention every
once in a while. I just heard about her, like
a couple of months ago. I reckon if you've seen
that RB around town, you'll pay attention. Yeah, and if
you're in the UK, lookout for it because they're um,
they're already investigating her people um for very aggressive tactics.
(28:50):
Apparently this woman came out of a clinic with her
kid and one of the Project Prevention people ran up
and was like, hey, how would you like three hundred
pounds to be sterilized or two hundre pounds to be sterilized?
And she's like what, she wasn't a drug addict? Yeah,
which because a tremendous amount of offense and now there
it's being investigated. I'm wondering what kind of um reception
(29:12):
shill ultimately have there. And she's got her sights on
Australia next. So Project Prevention sterilizing addicts the answer to
the question. Technically, yeah, it's legal reeks of eugenics. Yeah,
but that's not illegal, that's right. And apparently you can
go out and compulsor really sterilized a feeble minded person
(29:33):
as long as you can provide that they were feeble minded.
You know, we should do some podcasts on some like
awesome things that America has done. I feel like we're
always dredging up these awful things that we did in
our past history. But people, a lot of people don't know.
I was never taught about eugenics in high school. Oh no,
neither was I. I don't know, but that didn't know
we sterilize sixty people. But I think that's why we
have to do this sometimes, Chuck, because we know a
(29:55):
lot of the good stuff. You're right, we do need
to come up with some great, awesome off to talk
about two. But I think people generally think that way,
and I think that a lot of this, the dirty,
nasty stuff, just gets covered over and it can't can't
because we're in the midst of a case of history
repeating itself. And if we don't talk about it, if
people don't know about it, then if you don't have
(30:17):
the luxury of hindsight or to make an informed decision,
hazza to that, sir, So uh uh Sterilized Addicts will
bring you the article which we just pretty much did
to death um. But if you want to see some
pictures of heroin UM and a methodicted couple with their child,
(30:37):
you can type in uh sterilized addicts at the handysearch
bar house that works dot com which means it's time
for listener mail. Not so it is time for uh
what do we call it? Administrative detail and breaks on.
That was a really good break sound chuck, Thank you,
(30:59):
quick announced and everyone. We are coming to south By
Southwest in Austin, Texas. Uh, you need a badge to
get in to see us. We're even doing a live podcast.
You need a gold or platinum level interactive badge. I
think it's a Krypton level kryptonite. No it's not. But
we're gonna be podcasting live regardless at the Drisco Hotel
eleven am Monday, March fourteen, and we'd like you to
(31:23):
come down and see us well podcast and then do
a little Q and A. Plainly, we would like you
to come see it. So it just come see us.
What you what's your problem? It gets your hands on
a badge, you can do it. Yeah, just take quick.
Most of the people wearing the interactive badges are going
to be pasty, maybe a little weak. Just get a badge, yeah, exactly,
and we'll see you there all right, back to it, Yeah, okay.
(31:43):
We like to take time every couple of months to
thank people who send us gifts in the mail because
it's a real nice thing to do. Sometimes people are
plugging their little Etsy site. We'll plug that away. It's fine.
Travis Local, Travis and Uh. Tickets to the Village Theater.
You're in Atlanta, improv Yeah, and I haven't gone yet,
but I got my ticket. We should go on the
same night. Let's do it. But don't tell Jerry we'll
(32:05):
double date. Okay, Okay, sounds good. Um. Let's thank Becca
E and her two dogs, Frey and Freya for the
homemade doggy treats that our dogs enjoyed. Yeah, mine are
still enjoying them. I still have a few left. They
love them. They're delicious. They're like Scooby Snacks, but me
from home. Joey sent us personalized Ghostbuster shirts. Yeah, and
(32:30):
it's it's like the tuxedo T shirt. It's as if
you are wearing the Ghostbusters uniform. And it says Bryant
on it. Clark that does it? Yeah, Okay, I thought
it might say Roland. You says Roland because I think
you got Jerry's I'm just kidding. Um. Stink Free Direct
dot Com send us some nice over control stuff. Thank
you very much for that. We actually need it. Uh,
(32:54):
Mary Magenta, which has a she has a great name.
She sent us homemade calendars and I have mine hanging
up with my cube. I use it and tomorrow is
full radish on my calendar, and I think that means
full moon. Um. J Nolan of j nolan film dot
Com sent home baked cookies. I guess we should say
again that's J Nolan of J nolan film dot com.
(33:16):
J a y cookie bribe. Tony from Wisconsin. He's a
skinny and he sent us lovely drawing of a butterfly.
And Tony I think is young because I think it
was a crayon drawing, but it was you know, it's
from the heart. Yeah. Um. VFP sent us a postcard
from Dubai. Very nice send us each one, I believe. Yeah,
(33:37):
oh yeah, we got to Kate and TC sent us
a homemade Valentine of a t Rex holding a heart
and it was we like how many stuf feels really cute? Yeah,
Kate and TC. Victor sent us a postcard from Malta.
Lindsay and Nick. They sent us a real picture. Yeah,
it's been a while since I held a real picture
like that of us with them. We met them at
(34:00):
a Brooklyn trivia event and Nick, uh, I think it
was Army was leaving to go to Afghanistan, I think
the next day, and they took time to route themselves
through Brooklyn to come to our trivia event and we
met them both. And he is back in two days
from today? Is that right? But he well, two days
from the day she wrote the letter, right, I think
(34:22):
he's back. I think he said high on the Facebook page.
I think so he's back. He's definitely back by the
time this is out. So Nick, glad you're back, safe
and sound, buddy. Thanks for the picture, Lindsay and Nick Um. Well,
you got a huge, awesome assortment of Christmas cookies from
Mona Colon team. Oh yeah, Monus. And she's a big
fan on the stuff you should Facebook page. Yeah, Monus,
(34:42):
nice girl and she she sent us tons of Christmas
cookies which were awesome. She's a lady. She's a lady. Uh.
Joe Garden, our buddy, Joe Garden from the Onion definitely
send us Onion T shirts and hoodies because he promised
them months and months ago. And you can support Joe
(35:02):
if you like funny things by buying his books, The
Dangerous Book for Dogs, The Devious Book for Cats, and
my favorite, the New Vampire's Handbook, a guide for the
recently turned creature of the Night. And Joe writes these
with other Onion writers and they're all obviously very funny.
And speaking of the Onion, Chuck was used for a
photo for an Onion article on a hunter being busted
(35:24):
for not having a license. Right, so the the hunter
becomes the prey. Yeah. Um, how could we not thank
Aaron Cooper who made us some super cool Magnum p
I T shirts with our images on them. That was
actually a t shirt um contest submission. That was just
(35:45):
so awesome he made him anyway, and send him to
It's awesome. We couldn't use it. Yeah, licensing rights and
all that. And Coop Wet We always think Coop just
because his awesome photoshops because he saw the full metal
Jack Owens. Yeah, that was pretty good. Yeah, and um
off putting of course, Andrew and Janelle for their Christmas card,
right yeah, Ben and Leah sent us a Christmas card
(36:05):
to Abigail. She's a twelve year old who sent us
four handwritten letters. And it's always nice to get a
handwriten letter because it reminds me of being twelve years old.
Emily's not my wife. Emily sent us fifteen. I'm sorry,
she is fifteen, and she sent us a letter because
her mom took her computer away because of overuse, so
(36:26):
she had to write a letter. Tony and Hawaii sent
us a handwritten letter as well. And Martin van Nostrin,
of course of our best stuff ever. Yeah, he always
sent us great stuff, bacon related things, CDs of comedians
and weird bands, and he basically sent us a box
(36:46):
call goodies from merch bot dot com, which he said,
make sure you think merch bot support those guys. Yeah,
merch bot dot com. Thanks to everybody sent us stuff,
whether it was a postcard, a letter of bacon, tuxedo,
what have you. We appreciate you. Um. If you want
to go say hi to us, you can check us
out on Facebook at facebook dot com slash stuff you
(37:08):
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Oh wait, good join our Kiva team k i v
A dot org slash team slash Stuff you should Know
and then you can always send us an email. Stuff
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(37:29):
this and thousands of other topics, is it how stuff
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reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know
from house Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant
(00:20):
that makes this stuff you should know the podcast The
Addiction right, yea? How do I just realize I was
giving all kinds of awesome sign language but no one
can see that. I could see it just having a
beneficial effect on me, pumping you up. Yeah, um, Chuck, Josh,
you doing good? Great? Good, almost good. I'm great. It's
(00:41):
Friday afternoon. Glad to hear that. Dude. You're about to
go on vacation too. I am. You're probably pretty excited, right,
I am very y'all even tonight tomorrow morning? Awesome? Yes,
you're ready, Yes, Chuck. Yes. Do you know the economic
cost for child abuse in the United States? I do,
but I won't ruin it. It's massive. Let's talk about it,
(01:03):
because you can chart anything. Yeah, it kind of money
to good at that, and they're really good at that. UM.
You've got direct costs like UM foster care programs, law enforcement,
hospital care, medical costs, that kind of thing. Um, you've
got indirect costs like funding the court system, right, loss
(01:23):
of productivity for all the people who have to like
go to be on a jury, all that kind of thing.
A hundred and four billion dollars in two thousand seven
is what child abuse costs the US, right, Josh, that
sounds almost like more money than we spend on education
in the United States. It was it was that year,
(01:44):
well the year before. Yeah, yeah, and then interesting it's
interesting and said, yeah, um, so if you have no heart,
but dollar signs really makes sense to you, you can
agree that child abuse is a bad thing. Right. Uh,
if you do have a heart, then child abuses bad thing.
Either way, it's a bad thing. Um. Child abuse, though,
(02:05):
is not necessarily all just battering children or sexually molesting children.
There's also and most of them are cases of neglect. Yeah,
they have a stat here eighty six point six percent
or neglect. And they surveyed some child welfare workers and
is an awkward stat but it is of them estimated
(02:27):
that about half of their neglect cases were from drug
drug addicted parents, which makes sense. It does drugs. You're
not going to provide care for your child adequately. Um.
There's another study found that children who are born addicted
to drugs, meaning that they have drug addicted parents who
did drugs while they were pregnant, or drug addicted mothers
(02:50):
at least um, those kids are two to three times
more likely to be abused than non addicted children. I
would argue that they're already abused, that's that's a good point,
but even later on that they are much more likely
to become abused, probably through neglect, because if you are like,
I really need to score some crack, you're not gonna
(03:12):
be like, but first I need to make sure my
child has a healthy dinner. I gotta pump and dump
before I go out and hit the streets. That's another
thing too. Um. So, what we've just done, and what
is not very difficult, we've connected, um, drug addicted parents
to child abuse. We started out with child abuse is bad, right,
Why don't we just sterilize drug addicts so they can't
(03:33):
have any kids. That sounds like a great idea, does it? Uh?
It sounds like an idea that's actually being done, is
what that sounds like. And I have my dancing shoes
on for this podcast because this is tricky business dude. Yeah,
you can see both sides. It's the slady. Barbara Harris
(03:53):
makes some points where I think interesting point. Plus she
has some cred. Let's talk about her real quick. Barbara
Harris is the founder of some thing called Commune or
Children Require a Caring Community crack because community spell to
the K. Yeah, that's I can't believe she stretched that.
She is a former International House of Pancakes waitress who
(04:14):
is a mother, a biological mother to six children and
an adopted mother to four African American children who are
born to a drug addicted mother. She walks the walk.
She spent her days driving the United States in an
RV promoting her UM organization, the main purpose of which
(04:35):
is to carry out what's called project prevention, which is
what we just mentioned chuck sterilizing addicts. Yeah, and we
should say that her r V is not any ordinary
r V. It has the whole thing is decorated with
a huge picture of a dead baby, um, a line
of crack, cocaine, I believe, a razor blade, and then
(04:56):
some things just don't go together. Is the quote? Is
that right? I couldn't find that one. I've I read
that in a time article, I think, but Um, I
saw a picture of the one that she's using in
the UK, and it's a picture of a baby crying
and it says, Uh, she has her father's eyes and
her mother's heroin addiction. So she has a knack for
getting her message out there. And one of the ways
(05:16):
she has done that, aside from her RV, is a
string of billboards in the nineties in Los Angeles that
UM had taglines like don't let pregnancy ruin your drug habit. Yeah,
it's gonna get some attention, yep. Or I think there's
another one who's like, UM, like drugs, are you pregnant,
gets sterilized? Get three bucks or something like that, which
(05:37):
basically is like gets sterilized, We'll give you three hundred
dollars in drug money. Well, there you go. That the
cats out of the bag. Um, that's what we're doing there. Well,
there's a lot of ways to look at this. It
is a bribe too. It's a bribe to drug addicts
who will in most cases spend there this money on
drugs to give up their fertility. This woman is buying
(06:00):
drug addicts fertility through her her program. Another way to
look at it is that she is taking a lot
of the burden off of the state. Um, who are
we're going to eventually be charged with caring for these children?
Were not yet conceived. Uh, And like we said, originally
there were billboards, flyers, aggressive methods like hanging out at
(06:24):
A meetings and n A meetings and basically, um, Barbara
Harris's view is that if you've ever been addicted, even
if you're clean, now just go ahead and get sterilized
because you've kind of given up your right to have children.
She doesn't see um reproduction as a right, which is
what makes her very contentious to most people, very controversial
(06:48):
thing that she's doing here. Yes, clearly, so, Chuck, how
does this work? Do you know? Well, Josh, Um, it's
important to point out that she will only accept someone
into the program it already has one child, at least
one at least one child, You're right, and Um, they
the drug addict will have to fill out the paperwork
(07:10):
and have their counselor probably social counselor or judge appointed
counselor sign something that says they are in fact drug addicts,
or a social work or in a rest report. They
have to prove your drug addict. First off, got to
prove it and then that you can either be sterilized
or you can go on long term birth control. Right
(07:31):
and um, if you go on birth control, you get
two hundred bucks. You UM get a hundred up front, right,
a hundred when you sign a contract that says I
will do this and keep it up in a hundred
after you prove that you're you're doing it, or you
get three hundred bucks. Here's what they do. This is
a bystander organization. They don't provide any kind of clinics
where you where they perform the sterilization. Basically, what they
(07:54):
do is say, prove to us you're a drug addict. Okay,
we believe you're a drug addict. You're not qualified. Sign
this contract. It says you'll go do this. Now, go
do it. Get Medicaid or Medicare to pay for your
sterilization programs, so you and I are paying for this
pre sterilization. And then come bring us a note from
the doctor that says that this happened, that proves that
this procedure happened, that you're sterilized, and here's your three
(08:16):
d bucks. And hey, if you bring by one of
your crack addic buddies. We'll give you another fifty bucks
if they do it. Yep, I always got to pay
the referral fee. Yeah, so no strings attached except for
a contract. That's another problem too. There isn't any kind
of counseling now. It's just no parent classes, no parenting classes,
no UM drug cessation programs. It's just here's some money
(08:40):
to go give up your reproduction, your ability to reproduce.
And since uh, it's founding, I'm sorry. Within thirteen years
of its founding, UM she has worked with more than
thirty seven hundred drug addicts in the United States, and
about a third of those were sterilized from my math
roughly the rest I guess or on long term birth control. Wow.
(09:06):
And now she's making a way to the UK and
she wants to go to Kenya for women with HIV
and AIDS. Yeah. So that's pretty successful in the US,
and thirteen years in the UK she's finding a much
harder time of it. Um. Well, she's getting a lot
more flak. Yeah, but she got support to begin with
us is the reading. She went over there, some anonymous
(09:26):
donor gave her twenty grand and she got a lot
of the BBC did a special on her and she
got a bunch of phone calls saying please come over here,
and then the anonymous Downer came along gave her twenty grand.
She says that she took that as a sign signs
she started to set up in in the UK and
if you go on the Project Prevention website, it says, um,
(09:47):
there's a UK tab that you can click. Um, so
she is set up in the UK, and then you
also mentioned Kenya. She's getting probably the most grief of
all for Kenya. Understandably. Basically, she it has decided that
not only can you break the cycle of addiction by
taking away the ability to reproduce among addicts, you can
cure AIDS by just letting everybody who has AIDS die
(10:09):
out and not reproduced, basically children with AIDS or hiv UM.
In both cases, it depends on how who you are
and how you're looking at it, because there are definitely
people out there who support this, the Kenya AIDS Initiative
and sterilizing addicts, because in both cases what you're looking
(10:30):
at is uh an end do a perceived cycle where
everything else is failing. It's not necessarily the case. Though
there is drug treatment for drug addiction, there are drugs
that can treat HIV. UM. There are also educational programs
that you can teach people to to take better care,
(10:53):
take preventative measures. This lady is not interested in that
and in the I mean it's a part of the state,
the government medical program here seeing well, yeah, I guess
you can get birth control for free. Here came Medicaid Medicare.
That's how this thing is functioning. Addicts go get these
procedures or their birth control for free, for through texpayer
(11:14):
funding programs like medicaid medicare, and she's given them three bucks. Um,
just go talk about Kenya for a second longer. Did
you look at that? Uh? Now, I didn't look much
into it. Actually, she found a doctor who said that
he'll he'll insert i U d S, which is long
term birth control, but it's temporary, it's reversible, for seven
bucks a pop. And then her organization will pay UM
(11:36):
women with HIV AIDS UM forty bucks for it. So
forty seven bucks a person. She's just buying their reproductive
abilities in Kenya. There are a lot of people who
are frustrated by that. I'm sure. So Chuck, how is
any of this legal? Well, Uh, Planned Parenthood is one
(11:57):
organization that says, you know what, this is possibly illegal.
Uh if you're talking contract law, because there's something when
you have a vasectomy or any kind of sterilization that says, uh,
informed consent, like you have to be in there of
your own free will. It's not h Daddy isn't out
in the car forcing you to go in and get
(12:17):
your tubes tied. That kind of thing. Um they basically
you're saying that you know this three d bucks is coercive,
it's a bribe, and it's not informed consent going on. No,
because if if, if there's a bribe involved, Yeah, you can't,
like informed consent can exist medicaid in medicare requires informed consent.
(12:38):
But here's the loophole. The informed consent has to be
between the patient and the provider. Project prevention is a
third party and interested third party who is really not
involved in that equation. And the court protects the lady
going into get her tubes tied. Yes, And the court's
protecting the lady who's paying the US and to go
(13:00):
get their tubes tied. Because this is even though like
it's it's um extremely unethical and immoral in some people's eyes.
It is still technically illegal because the provider of the
sterilization services not giving this this person three d bucks.
Someone else's here too. Of her arguments which made me
(13:21):
at least sit back and think for a minute about
what the heck is going on here, because this is,
like I said, this is a narrow line this lady's walking,
so I might say she's way way over it. Uh.
One of the arguments used against her is that these
um women are not in their right mind to decide
to have this procedure done. They're on drugs. You're given
(13:41):
him this money. So her argument back is so they're
not of sound mind enough to have this procedure, but
they're of sound mind enough to decide to have a kid. Yeah,
it's a good argument. Her other big argument is against
her is that you're taking away a woman's right to
choose to have a baby essentially, and her are gim
and reverses, Well, why is that right more important than
(14:03):
a child's right to be born into a normal environment
and have a shot at a normal life. So I
believe that she is not necessarily trying to create some
pure race of smart white people. I think she is
trying to stop crack babies from being born, but she's
(14:23):
doing it is definitely stirred the pot. The impression I
have is that even this lady's critics are UM say
that she's a true believer. Yeah, she's not, Like, she's
not a social engineer. She doesn't see it like that.
The problem is is, like I think a lot of
people are worried about where she's getting her funding. UM,
(14:44):
her largest donor apparently UM. Crack and Project Prevention have
about five thousand dollars a year in operating budget ok UM,
which I guess is enough to fund to fuel the
RV around the country and keep the website going and
pay as many addicts as possible. UM. But most of
(15:04):
that money is coming from a guy who is a
billionaire named Richard Mellen Scafe. Right. I hadn't either, but
he's apparently UM on the right right hand of the
spectrum politically. Yeah. He runs the Pittsburgh Tribune, which is
a right wing newspaper as far as its leanings UM,
(15:26):
and he The idea of a billionaire funding a project
like that scares the tar out of people because it
gives it a classist, um bent. Even if this lady
is a former eyehop waitress, if the people who are
giving her the money to do this indefinitely are billionaires,
(15:47):
then what what you're talking about is how one person
put it. Um, you have a structure in which the
economically privileged can and do dictate who will and who
won't have children end quote, which means you're you're on crack,
or you're black, or we've decided that you're unfit to reproduce,
(16:09):
but instead of forcing it, we're gonna pay you. But really,
what's the difference. Yeah, I mean, it's a nonprofit quote unquote,
but a nonprofit funded by a billionaire. It's different kind
of nonprofit, you know what I'm saying. Another criticism is
um that it is racially disproportionate. Um. She will point
out that a thousand clients were African American, whereas more
(16:32):
than eight hundred have been white. But Um, as far
as percentages of population goes, it's it's skewed heavily towards blacks. Yeah,
that makes a lot of sense if you I mean,
in hard numbers, it's like, well, there's way more white
people than black people who have taken part in this.
But if you look at the proportion of the population UM,
seventies something percent of the US population is white, whereas
(16:54):
only like about thirteen percent is black, So those numbers
actually are very disproportioned new UM and also the original
billboards targeted low income, predominantly African American areas of Los
Angeles at the beginning. UM. I think ultimately what scares
people is that even if this is an addicts choice,
(17:17):
even if you agree, this addict is making their own decision,
and in some cases there are UM. In this time article,
there's a woman named Joe and Chavarria, and she's just
like this model participant. There's a quote from her that said,
like when you stop having kids, that makes you think
about what else you can do in life. She already
has five kids, the state has custody of them. She
(17:38):
got sterilized and took her three hundred dollars and bought
Easter presence and educational toys for her children, who she's
trying to get back. She already had three kids, and
then she gave birth to two drug addicted twins because
she was addicted to meth um. She started doing math
at eight months pregnant. Yeah, which is not a good
time to start doing myth start. That's a particular bad
(18:00):
time to start. I would agree with that. Um. Yeah,
so she's a poster child. She is. But even if
she's walking around, right, the the whole idea that that
reproduction in reproductive rights should and could be controlled by
other people, whether they're a private organization funded by a
(18:20):
billionaire um or the government smacks of the eugenics movement.
We've already done this before and it's it proved horrific. Right,
we need to talk about eugenics, we definitely do. Let's
do it well. Remember it came up in the Crimes
Them Photography, Uh our podcast? Right, Yes, it was a
big deal in the US. Yeah. When did it start? Night?
(18:42):
Turn of the Century night, early early twentieth century. Eugenics
was a movement a concept that you could create a
fitter human species if you removed undesirable traits UM like
chronic disease, UM, low socio economic status. Do you want
to hear with this this model law for eugenics. Yeah,
we'll say what the model law is first. Who was
(19:03):
it that came up with that? A guy named Harry Laughlin? Um.
He was the head of the Eugenics Record Office, and
I remember at the time in the the um this
was nineteen fourteen that he came up with the Model Law.
There was this idea that, like you said, Chuck, you
could create a fitter human race by basically weeding out
the undesirable elements and we just letting the healthy, robust
ones reproduce. Simple as pie, you get yourself a nice
(19:27):
arian race boys from Brazil, right, Um, So to to
carry this out. Most people who are unfit don't really
consider themselves unfit, and even worse, in a lot of cases, Um,
one of the sure signs that they are socially unfit
is that they're sexually promiscuous. So you gotta take matters
(19:48):
into your own hands. And the government has to force
sterilization through the courts and not just formiscus. Should we
read out some of the things in the law. Well
this these are the undesirables, take it, Chuck, the feeble minded,
the saying, criminalistic, the epileptic, the inebriate, the disease, the blind,
the deaf, the deformed and dependent and orphans, near do wells, tramps,
(20:11):
homeless and pauper's The only thing I don't see in
here is skullduggery. Right, I'm surprised that's probably in here somewhere. Actually,
So that was the model law for UM forced government
mandated sterilization. You know, people who are targeting. Yeah, this
is the US UM. And by this by the time
this model law was created, UM, a couple of states
(20:33):
already had their own compulsory sterilization laws based on the
idea of eugenics. Right. I think Indiana and Connecticut were hot,
hot on, hot on the trail. Yeah. California came fairly
late to the game. UM. In the early to mid twenties,
they had a law. But by that time, by UM,
(20:54):
hundred of the three thousand people who had been forced
to be sterilized under this law UM or in California.
And one of the ideas behind it was that it
was a tax saving measure. Right. The really interesting considering
today's it sounds very familiar. UM. The U. S. Supreme
(21:18):
Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes very famously said something that
might also sound familiar as far as logic goes. UM.
He said, quote, it is better for all the world if,
instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or
to let them starve for their imbecility. Society can prevent
those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. And
(21:41):
he finished up, and we'll talk about this case. Was saying,
three generations of imbeciles are enough. He's talking about Carrie Buck.
And she was a seventeen year old in Charlottesville, Virginia.
She was the first person chosen to be sterilized in
Virginia under the Dow Model law. She had a kid,
but was not married. Her mother was in an insane
(22:04):
asylum called the Virginia Colony for the epileptic and the
feeble minded. It's not a place you want to visit
and not leave. Uh. And here's her story. She was
um picked because they thought that she shared hereditary traits
with her mother, a feeble minded, feeble mindedness, and sexual promiscuity. Uh.
(22:25):
They thought it was genetic. She already had one kid,
and they thought, you know what, it's probable that she's
gonna have a socially inadequate child after this, and let's
sterilize her. Let's make her case number one in Virginia.
Took her. They went to court. Um, it went all
the way to the Supreme Court. Um, people testified against
her that she had a record of immorality and uh, syphilis, prostitution,
(22:49):
and untruthfulness. So the judge said, okay, let's sterilize her.
And it was upheld. And it was upheld because that
Oliver Wendell Holmes decision, that quote came from the majority
opinion that yeah, we should go ahead and sterilize this girl.
And she was sterilized. But what happened, Josh afterwards, Well,
what we her kid was studied UM tremendously. This was
(23:12):
not like, uh, there was popular, widespread support for eugenics
in the US, but there are also plenty of people
who are like, what are you doing? This is the
worst thing we've ever done. Um. So her kid, UM,
Vivian Buck was UM was followed her. A lot of
stuff was not entered into the public record when during
(23:34):
carry Buck's trial or hearings. UM. For one, she wasn't promiscuous.
She was raped by her foster parents relative right, um.
And then Vivian was not a an example of a
third generation feeble minded person. She was a solid beast
student apparently and was on the honor roll. UM. That
was her first grade report card. So basically this woman
(23:56):
was the the test case to keep seralization going or
to really get it going, proved fraudulent in the end.
Well not only that, but her defense lawyer, it turns
out this was later uncovered, conspired with the lawyer for
the Insane Asylum to guarantee that would be upheld. So
it was completely fraudulent. Uh, but it was upheld in
(24:20):
Virginia and eight three hundred Virginians were sterilized after that
Buck versus Bell case eight thousand, three hundred. UM. Harry Laughlin,
the guy who was running the eugenics record office and
who wrote that model law in nineteen fourteen. He went
on to get a mob um a medal from the
Nazi government in nineteen thirty three for um his his
(24:44):
contribution to the science of racial cleansing from the University
of Heidelberg got an honorary degree. And UM, I didn't
know this, but apparently the Rockefeller Foundation funded the German
I can't remember with the name of the the research facility,
but funded the German res for search facility where this
(25:05):
was being born. Over there where is Mingla is that
is that the Guy Rockfeller Center was funding them at
the time too. And then Nazi says, this is a
great idea, and we'll go on to sterilize thy thousand people.
And it turns out that's not even enough, so we're
just gonna start killing them. Right. So, if if you
start people to say, like, oh, what could something ever
(25:27):
lead to, you never know what it could lead to. Well,
in the US, in the United States, UM, it led
to a thirty three states with compulsory sterilization laws on
the books that continued into the nineteen seventies. We were
sterilizing the mentally retarded in the US. I was alive,
I was born, and this was going on UM and
(25:50):
ultimately about sixty thou people lost their ability to reproduce
UM at the hands of the US government. UM. And
this the guy who wrote this great paper, he's actually
a pretty much an expert on the eugenics movement in
the US. His name is Paul Lombardo. He's a University
of Virginia professor. UM. He points out that the Carrie
(26:11):
Buck case that basically allows compulsory sterilization of feeble minded
people is still on the books. It's not overturned. Yeah,
but it's one of those it's not you couldn't do
it today, But wouldn't it be interesting if that came
up and somebody when somebody ultimately challenges project prevention. I
have a list of people who supported eugenics. Are you
(26:34):
going to call him out? And this is not to
say that they supported sterilization, because eugenics had a lot
more to do with It was broader than just sterialization.
But Woodrow Wilson, uh Margaret Sanger, who is the founder
of Planned Parenthood, who was a lightning rod her self
in her time, and now Planned Parenthood is criticizing Barbara Harris,
(26:58):
which really says something. Oliver Wendell Holmes obviously we mentioned him. H. G. Wells,
Teddy Roosevelt, John Maynard Keynes, and George Bernard Shaw are
just a few who thought eugenics was pretty good idea
at the Charles Lindbergh did you see him? No? No, no,
was he in there? Remember he was all about Darwin
and Limberg. Really I didn't know Limberg was in there.
(27:22):
It wasn't that one article you sent me. No, that
was for trans humanism, right, but it was for certain
people it was based on genics. So Chuck Um, like
you said, you had your dancing shoes on, and I
can appreciate that. Should we talk about Jack Skinner real
quick though, or do you want to? Well? Yeah, because
that was when it was actually struck down in two
(27:44):
Oklahoma criminal Um. They were going to start sterilizing criminals
or they had been already probably right, repeat criminals, repeat criminals.
And he was a chicken thief and uh an armed robber.
And this went to court in justice William ou Douglas
struck it down and had a very good point. He said,
you're not gonna essentially I'm paraphrasing, you're not gonna sterilize
(28:08):
at three time in Besler, all right, but you'll sterilize
a chicken thief. So it comes back to class once again. Yeah,
and then then that's where we are again. Um again,
you did a good job with your dancing shoes. I'm
dancing nice. Um. Depending on how you feel about it,
this isn't going anywhere. This lady has been doing this
(28:30):
for thirteen years and it first got attention, like right
when she first started doing it. She gets attention every
once in a while. I just heard about her, like
a couple of months ago. I reckon if you've seen
that RB around town, you'll pay attention. Yeah, and if
you're in the UK, lookout for it because they're um,
they're already investigating her people um for very aggressive tactics.
(28:50):
Apparently this woman came out of a clinic with her
kid and one of the Project Prevention people ran up
and was like, hey, how would you like three hundred
pounds to be sterilized or two hundre pounds to be sterilized?
And she's like what, she wasn't a drug addict? Yeah,
which because a tremendous amount of offense and now there
it's being investigated. I'm wondering what kind of um reception
(29:12):
shill ultimately have there. And she's got her sights on
Australia next. So Project Prevention sterilizing addicts the answer to
the question. Technically, yeah, it's legal reeks of eugenics. Yeah,
but that's not illegal, that's right. And apparently you can
go out and compulsor really sterilized a feeble minded person
(29:33):
as long as you can provide that they were feeble minded.
You know, we should do some podcasts on some like
awesome things that America has done. I feel like we're
always dredging up these awful things that we did in
our past history. But people, a lot of people don't know.
I was never taught about eugenics in high school. Oh no,
neither was I. I don't know, but that didn't know
we sterilize sixty people. But I think that's why we
have to do this sometimes, Chuck, because we know a
(29:55):
lot of the good stuff. You're right, we do need
to come up with some great, awesome off to talk
about two. But I think people generally think that way,
and I think that a lot of this, the dirty,
nasty stuff, just gets covered over and it can't can't
because we're in the midst of a case of history
repeating itself. And if we don't talk about it, if
people don't know about it, then if you don't have
(30:17):
the luxury of hindsight or to make an informed decision,
hazza to that, sir, So uh uh Sterilized Addicts will
bring you the article which we just pretty much did
to death um. But if you want to see some
pictures of heroin UM and a methodicted couple with their child,
(30:37):
you can type in uh sterilized addicts at the handysearch
bar house that works dot com which means it's time
for listener mail. Not so it is time for uh
what do we call it? Administrative detail and breaks on.
That was a really good break sound chuck, Thank you,
(30:59):
quick announced and everyone. We are coming to south By
Southwest in Austin, Texas. Uh, you need a badge to
get in to see us. We're even doing a live podcast.
You need a gold or platinum level interactive badge. I
think it's a Krypton level kryptonite. No it's not. But
we're gonna be podcasting live regardless at the Drisco Hotel
eleven am Monday, March fourteen, and we'd like you to
(31:23):
come down and see us well podcast and then do
a little Q and A. Plainly, we would like you
to come see it. So it just come see us.
What you what's your problem? It gets your hands on
a badge, you can do it. Yeah, just take quick.
Most of the people wearing the interactive badges are going
to be pasty, maybe a little weak. Just get a badge, yeah, exactly,
and we'll see you there all right, back to it, Yeah, okay.
(31:43):
We like to take time every couple of months to
thank people who send us gifts in the mail because
it's a real nice thing to do. Sometimes people are
plugging their little Etsy site. We'll plug that away. It's fine.
Travis Local, Travis and Uh. Tickets to the Village Theater.
You're in Atlanta, improv Yeah, and I haven't gone yet,
but I got my ticket. We should go on the
same night. Let's do it. But don't tell Jerry we'll
(32:05):
double date. Okay, Okay, sounds good. Um. Let's thank Becca
E and her two dogs, Frey and Freya for the
homemade doggy treats that our dogs enjoyed. Yeah, mine are
still enjoying them. I still have a few left. They
love them. They're delicious. They're like Scooby Snacks, but me
from home. Joey sent us personalized Ghostbuster shirts. Yeah, and
(32:30):
it's it's like the tuxedo T shirt. It's as if
you are wearing the Ghostbusters uniform. And it says Bryant
on it. Clark that does it? Yeah, Okay, I thought
it might say Roland. You says Roland because I think
you got Jerry's I'm just kidding. Um. Stink Free Direct
dot Com send us some nice over control stuff. Thank
you very much for that. We actually need it. Uh,
(32:54):
Mary Magenta, which has a she has a great name.
She sent us homemade calendars and I have mine hanging
up with my cube. I use it and tomorrow is
full radish on my calendar, and I think that means
full moon. Um. J Nolan of j nolan film dot
Com sent home baked cookies. I guess we should say
again that's J Nolan of J nolan film dot com.
(33:16):
J a y cookie bribe. Tony from Wisconsin. He's a
skinny and he sent us lovely drawing of a butterfly.
And Tony I think is young because I think it
was a crayon drawing, but it was you know, it's
from the heart. Yeah. Um. VFP sent us a postcard
from Dubai. Very nice send us each one, I believe. Yeah,
(33:37):
oh yeah, we got to Kate and TC sent us
a homemade Valentine of a t Rex holding a heart
and it was we like how many stuf feels really cute? Yeah,
Kate and TC. Victor sent us a postcard from Malta.
Lindsay and Nick. They sent us a real picture. Yeah,
it's been a while since I held a real picture
like that of us with them. We met them at
(34:00):
a Brooklyn trivia event and Nick, uh, I think it
was Army was leaving to go to Afghanistan, I think
the next day, and they took time to route themselves
through Brooklyn to come to our trivia event and we
met them both. And he is back in two days
from today? Is that right? But he well, two days
from the day she wrote the letter, right, I think
(34:22):
he's back. I think he said high on the Facebook page.
I think so he's back. He's definitely back by the
time this is out. So Nick, glad you're back, safe
and sound, buddy. Thanks for the picture, Lindsay and Nick Um. Well,
you got a huge, awesome assortment of Christmas cookies from
Mona Colon team. Oh yeah, Monus. And she's a big
fan on the stuff you should Facebook page. Yeah, Monus,
(34:42):
nice girl and she she sent us tons of Christmas
cookies which were awesome. She's a lady. She's a lady. Uh.
Joe Garden, our buddy, Joe Garden from the Onion definitely
send us Onion T shirts and hoodies because he promised
them months and months ago. And you can support Joe
(35:02):
if you like funny things by buying his books, The
Dangerous Book for Dogs, The Devious Book for Cats, and
my favorite, the New Vampire's Handbook, a guide for the
recently turned creature of the Night. And Joe writes these
with other Onion writers and they're all obviously very funny.
And speaking of the Onion, Chuck was used for a
photo for an Onion article on a hunter being busted
(35:24):
for not having a license. Right, so the the hunter
becomes the prey. Yeah. Um, how could we not thank
Aaron Cooper who made us some super cool Magnum p
I T shirts with our images on them. That was
actually a t shirt um contest submission. That was just
(35:45):
so awesome he made him anyway, and send him to
It's awesome. We couldn't use it. Yeah, licensing rights and
all that. And Coop Wet We always think Coop just
because his awesome photoshops because he saw the full metal
Jack Owens. Yeah, that was pretty good. Yeah, and um
off putting of course, Andrew and Janelle for their Christmas card,
right yeah, Ben and Leah sent us a Christmas card
(36:05):
to Abigail. She's a twelve year old who sent us
four handwritten letters. And it's always nice to get a
handwriten letter because it reminds me of being twelve years old.
Emily's not my wife. Emily sent us fifteen. I'm sorry,
she is fifteen, and she sent us a letter because
her mom took her computer away because of overuse, so
(36:26):
she had to write a letter. Tony and Hawaii sent
us a handwritten letter as well. And Martin van Nostrin,
of course of our best stuff ever. Yeah, he always
sent us great stuff, bacon related things, CDs of comedians
and weird bands, and he basically sent us a box
(36:46):
call goodies from merch bot dot com, which he said,
make sure you think merch bot support those guys. Yeah,
merch bot dot com. Thanks to everybody sent us stuff,
whether it was a postcard, a letter of bacon, tuxedo,
what have you. We appreciate you. Um. If you want
to go say hi to us, you can check us
out on Facebook at facebook dot com slash stuff you
(37:08):
Should Know. We also tweet at s y s K
podcast and as always you can send us an email.
Oh wait, good join our Kiva team k i v
A dot org slash team slash Stuff you should Know
and then you can always send us an email. Stuff
podcast at how stuff works dot com For more on
(37:29):
this and thousands of other topics, is it how stuff
works dot com. To learn more about the podcast, click
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