November 26, 2013 • 42 mins
Recorded live at the Los Angeles PodFest, this episode of SYSK delves into the longstanding attempt to break down what humans find funny into a scientifically reproducible formula. Join Josh and Chuck as they examine just why this extremely unfunny quest will (thankfully) never be realized.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the all new Toyota Corolla. Ladies
and gentlemen looking to stuff you should know. Hey, and
welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me is
always this, Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and with us as
(00:23):
not always is all of you guys here at l
a podcast, but it's a little unusual. I've only done
this a couple of times before. Yeah, little south by Southwest, Yeah,
comic con and now podcast. That's right, um, and we've
(00:43):
got a pretty good crew here, good group, I can
tell just by the looks of you guys. Um, and uh,
we've got a very special treat for all of you
listeners at home. We're all very excited about it. I
think I'm the most excited about it, but a right,
you're definitely the most excited about it. Uh. And today
we're talking about, um, Chuck, as you were saying, we're
talking about we're gonna answer a question, is there a
(01:05):
scientific formula for funny? And I guess we can kind
of spoil it now by saying yes and not really right,
And that was it. That's all. That's the podcast. UM.
I do have an intro if you're interested in hearing it. Um,
(01:26):
remember our ghosts episode? Yeah, that was pretty bad, so
we I liked it. We got a lot of We
got a lot of crud from skeptics surprised they didn't
like our ghost episode. Um. But there was a guy,
a researcher named Richard Wiseman from Hertfordshire University in the UK.
Go Figgy Puddings, Um, and they Richard, why do you
(01:52):
remember who I'm talking about? I remember the guy. We
interpreted his his research and the ghosts, which is basically
used to debunk ghosts. We took what he found as
evidence there there may be such things as ghosts, and
the skeptics didn't like that at all. But he's done
some other stuff too, So he makes an appearance in
this podcast as of right now because before he was
(02:13):
doing ghost stuff, he was doing humor research. I am
back in two thousands two. He set up a website
called laugh Lab and he wanted to find the world's
funniest joke. Really yeah, not to be confused with the
funniest joke in the world, the Monty Python thing. This
is different. Um. And there were forty thousand submissions I
think one point four million hits and this is prior
(02:35):
to social media, so these are pretty respectable numbers if
you think about it. And they found the world's funniest joke.
I generally don't know this, so I'm on pins and needles.
Do you want to hear? Okay? So this guy is
out hunting with a friend of his in the woods
and the friend suddenly just drops over falls to the ground,
(02:56):
and the hunter picks up his cell phone and he
calls nine on one and he's is, hey, I think
my friend just died. We're out here in the woods hunting.
What should I do? And the nine and one operator says, well,
first let's make sure he's dead, and so the hunter
shoots his friend and he goes, okay, Now what that's
the world's funniest joke. It's not okay, but the so
(03:19):
ahead of mixed reaction and what we're talking about now
is the world's funniest joke. And it got a couple
of laughs here, right. Yeah. I think what that proves
and the point of this long rambling intro is that, um,
we pretty much can't predict what's funny, what people are
gonna find funny, and uh, let's talk about exactly why
that is chuckers. Yes, well it's subjective, but we'll get
(03:42):
to that later. Right, Well, we can just throw our
opinions out then and be right. Well they've been. Even
though there is no formula as of yet, it doesn't
mean people haven't tried to find out. Dating all the
way back to the first masters of comedy, Aristotle and Plato,
two very funny guys, they talked a lot about it, actually,
surprisingly and um, they basically try to look at what
(04:06):
compels people to laugh. And Aristotle, I think he thought
that we're the we were the only creatures to laugh.
Is that right? Yeah, that was just a human phenomenon,
which is wrong. It's right because it turns out, and
this is the cutest part of the show too. Um,
chimpanzees and ring tangs and apes not only laugh when
you tickle them, but if you go to a baby chimp,
(04:29):
you don't even have to make contact. You can just
do the little here I come with the fingers and
the baby chimp will laugh. Apparently, And uh, I did
look up chimpanzee laughter and it's not um like humans
make the hehes and the ho hoes. There's more of
a gasping sound apparently, rats do the same thing when
you tickle that. No, we talked about this and the
(04:50):
What's So Funny episode? We remember rat tickling with there's
videos of it out there. They get like a little
high pitched thing. It's the cutest thing you've ever seen,
like somebody tickling a rat and the rats is like,
it's it's very cute. But so yes, at the very least,
laughter or taking tickling is funny. Is it goes across species? Yeah,
(05:11):
And we did cover some of this in the show
on did we call it What's So Funny? I think
so okay um, But laughter is UH is definitely a
human thing, aside from the primates and the rats, I think,
and it consists of variations of one single basic form.
It's vowel like sounds repeated every two and ten milliseconds,
and human skin either he he like you just did,
(05:33):
or a variation of a ho ho, but you don't
mix them. Apparently there's never been someone that laughs he
ho he ho, because that would be up if that's
how you laugh and your your facial muscles get going.
There's fifteen facial muscles that contract and strain UH. The
zygomatic major muscle, which is your upper lip is is triggered. Um,
(05:57):
if it's really good, you might get the tear ducks going.
Gonna know, we've all been there, and you're gonna be
gasping and your respiratory system is struggling basically to breathe
at that point, chimp like a baby chip. Uh. So
that's basically what laughter is babies human babies. Human babies
start at about three or four months if they have
a sense of humor, I guess, and uh, some reachers
(06:21):
researchers have found that, um, we are thirty times more
likely to laugh in the company of others, uh than
when you're alone. So it's definitely a social thing. And
that is if because I read that first, that and
I was like, clearly they've never watched Portlandia or Eastbounding
down alone on the couch at midnight. But I mean
that's a good point because when you're watching it by yourself, like,
(06:43):
you may laugh, but you're not necessarily laughing your off.
I guess there's another way to put it. Yet, well
I do, oh you do, of course. But that stat
though was Um, that was the caveat is that's not
including TV or any kind of external stimulation, Like if
you're just alone and you like think a funny thought
or see a funny thing, you're way less likely to
(07:05):
laugh if you're by yourself. Okay, all right, but whether
you are in China or Santa Monica, wherever you are,
laughter is gonna sound very similar like you were saying,
and um, there is going to be such thing as humor.
It's not necessarily going to be the same thing in
China as it is in Santa Monica that gets laughs,
(07:26):
like it would just be dead silent right now if
we were in Beijing. Sounded like for a second. But
so the point is as humor as universal, but it's
constrained by all these different contexts like um uh, well,
like where you are and not just space but also time.
Like what guys like Ben Franklin thought was funny, it
(07:49):
just kind of falls flat today, Like turkey jokes, apple
apple brandy jokes. That's a turkey joke. He had a couple.
They weren't that good. They're not, they're not. They don't
bear eating here. But that all that put together, gender differences,
economic differences, all of these things kind of separate like
what's funny from what's not funny depending on who you are. Um,
(08:13):
but from Aristotle to Plato was one, wasn't he hum
all the way up to Schopenhauer. Another hilarious dude, Kyrka Guard,
who by the way, has a great Twitter feed. Um,
Kyrka Kardashian, it's um, are you guys familiar with it?
It's awesome. It's uh Kirka Guards philosophical musings and he
(08:37):
was pretty dark. UM mashed together with Kim Kardashian's contemporary tweets.
Let's just go check it out. It's like you'll you
will definitely follow it. Not her old tweets, now her contemporary. Yeah,
like for I'll give you one. Okay, that's how one
today It's it's worth saying. Um. She said, Hey, I
can't wait until you guys, um smell my new fragrance
(09:00):
coming out this spring. It reeks of the misery of
modern life. That was just an average one too. We
got we got more than a he heat out of
this guy. It's good right Uh for me, I'm I've
actually blogged about it the other day. Um, short jokes
to me are the best brevity is the soul of
(09:21):
wit or as they said on the Simpsons brevity is
with of course they had to one up it. And
my hero and many writers heroes, is the Great Jack Handy,
who is a real person. By the way, I don't
mean a lot of people think that Deep Thoughts by
Jack Andy was just some you know, made up name,
Like there's no one named Jack Handy. It's written by,
(09:42):
you know, just one of the SNL writers. He was
an lent writer and his name is Jack Handy, and
he has been sort of obsessed with creating the perfect
short joke over his career. He's the closest he thinks
he's ever come. And it's pretty good, I think, is uh.
The crows seemed to be calling his name. Thought to
call not bad. That's Jack Handy thinks that's the best
(10:06):
short joke he's ever written. Jack knows what he's talking,
so good and uh. It was in a McSweeney's article
that I first read about this from the New York Times. Um,
they were talking about the New York Times that that
writer thought the best one was. And this is pretty
good too. I came here in peace, seeking gold and slaves.
(10:27):
So for me, the Great Jack Handy is trying to
get a laugh out of the fewest amount of words. Um.
I came here in peking Golden slaves, five syllable set up,
five syllable punchline, beautiful, clean, the master for me? What's
funny is this? Actually? In my research I ran across um,
a real formula for funny. Um. That was the yes
(10:49):
part of the answer. Um alcohol plus joke greater than okay.
So it's X equals F times L plus end times oh,
divided by P And in those values in there, well,
p p actually penalizes you because that's the number of
puns that's in the jokes. So you get all these
(11:11):
all these points and then it divided by the number
of puns you used. So um. But one of the
one of the formulas that that builds up the funniness
of a joke is how long it takes for the
punch line to build and then finally pay off. So
it's like pretty much the opposite of it. So even
Jack Handy and whoever came up with this formula can't
agree on how to make something funnier. To figure out
(11:32):
what's the funniest. Yeah, Well, if it was easy, everyone
would be doing it, clearly, And we've seen a lot
of I know you go to see a lot of
stand up comics a lot, and yeah, you're really into it.
And through our job, we've gotten to see a lot
and it's really fascinating, especially when you meet some of them,
to see them working this stuff out, especially if you
see them more than once doing kind of the same
material and the subtle changes. I just I think it's
(11:55):
really fascinating. And I've been writing a stand aback for
like ten years. How's it going. It's going pretty good.
Care to do so? No, not at all. It's got
a mike, you have an audience. No, no, no, no,
I don't like. I wouldn't have be I would have
not even brought it up. There was a writer I know.
Uh that was a writer named Debrah Solomon for New
(12:16):
York Times magazine though that asked Chris Rock and I'm
not gonna do my Chris Rock, don't worry, um what's funny?
And his reply was, and it kind of says it
all is, you want to know what's funny? Is thinking
about it? What's not funny? Oh yeah, chuck blew that joke.
It's not a joke. Yeah, you want to know it's
not funny. It's thinking about it, thank you for that,
(12:37):
or talking about it, which is what we're doing. So
stop laughing because this is not funny. Apparently that's right,
all right, So, um, we are not the only people
who have ever said, you know, is can you figure
out what's funny? Scientifically? There's actually a whole study. It's
called humor studies, and strangely enough, it's not taken very
seriously among psychologists. Um, although there's you know, an equal
(13:01):
dedicated amount of work applied to it using the scientific method.
You have the International Society for Humor Studies. They've been
around since the eighties. They're trying to like keep the
flame going. And apparently, um, ever since we started putting
people into the Wonder Machine and asking them questions or um,
telling them jokes, we've gotten like a lot more scientific
(13:23):
basis of what's funny. We'll get into that in a
little bit. Yeah, that's the f m R I or
the m R I machine. You don't want to know that.
That's our little name for though. Um. But prior to this,
prior to the Wonder Machine being rolled out, like people
have just kind of it's basically been up to philosophers
to figure out what's funny, and they've come up with
some pretty good theories. And there's a big three. There's
I think as many I saw as many as a
(13:45):
hundred theories of humor, but then it's been whittled down
to a big three, like pretty much arbitrarily. Or else
people are like, maybe these three are the right ones.
Who knows, but I think he's kind of hit on it.
Um Number one is the superiority theory um Plato, Aristotle, Hobbs.
They all sort of focus on this dark side of
comedy and we've all been there. Um, Laughing at someone
(14:08):
else's expense sometimes can be quite a good time. It's
pretty much like, Um, this theory would be supported by
Dwight shrewked like watching him. Yeah, you know, were listening
to him for sure. And I might have told this
on another show. But one of the funniest things I
ever saw Bless You, Bless You, was in college in Athens, Georgia.
(14:29):
I saw a guy face plant really really bad on
campus one day. You're already laughing, did you laugh? Well?
I laughed at this. The dude fell busted face forward,
books went spilling out on the sidewalk, and I swear
to God. Immediately the guy went like this and opened
up a book on the sidewalk like he was reading.
(14:52):
And I was driving and I saw this happen, and
I wanted to pull the car over and say, dude,
you are the funniest person I've ever seen in my life,
because it was just his instinct to play it off
like that. And that was man. That was like seventeen
years ago, and it's stuck with me this day. I
don't know who that guy was, but I want to
meet him still, if you're out there, way to go, man, Yeah, yeah,
but it was I don't know if I would have
laughed at his expense had he not done that, because
(15:14):
when although the America's funny some video effect, i'll call it, yeah,
kicked in the nuts juggernaut, that is very much the
superiority theory in action. It is, or it is pretty
much the converse theory that says the same thing but
has a kind of a different take of It's called
inferiority theory. It's like the person whoever came up with
(15:35):
this is like the person who who raises the last
um bet by a dollar on the prices, right, you know, Oh,
superiority theory. How about inferiority theory? Um they what they
came up with was that we see and that guy falling.
You don't feel better about yourself. You see part of
(15:55):
yourself and him like you could have just as easily
fallen or whatever. Yeah, but I wouldn't have been cool
enough to play it off like I was reading a book.
I would have picked up my books and ran home.
Don't laugh at me. So that's where, Yeah, that's where
the admiration kicks in a right. Number two we are
we're in the relief theory, which is Freud's theory, which
(16:17):
means it's wrong. Man, you got it. You've had a
bone to pick with Freud since I've known you. I
like Malcolm Bladwell, I like um see is like as
I just started twitching involuntarily. I like I like Freud
as a person. I like what he was trying to do.
I just think he was just kind of full of it.
All right, So what did Freud say? He wrote about
(16:40):
joking Believe it or not, This is actually um the
his his theory that I agree with the most. Probably
his theory of um humor is really theory, and that
I totally agree. We have like it's it's a build
up of wait for it, sexual energy that we release
surprised in some way, bless you that this live podcasting
(17:01):
is funny and it's like a whole other sneezy know
um that we were. We're getting out sexual energy, intellectual energy,
whatever is pent up through laughter, which makes sense to
a certain degree, like there are there are things that
you laugh at that you can point to and say,
may may right here. Yeah, or I think self deprecation
(17:22):
might fall into that a little bit too, like taking
the things that make you feel bad, making a joke
about of it. I've lived my whole life this way basically,
Or anyone that listens to Howard Stern he's been joking
about his small penis for twenty five years. Who knows
if that's true. I think it probably is. But he's
definitely made a point of joking about it for you know,
forever five years. Joke man, That means it's it's definitely true.
(17:45):
So that's the relief theory. And and I think there's
you know, put a lot of stock in that for sure.
Well yeah, I mean it's like adding levity to a situation. Yeah,
if and it works, like you can defuse in tense
situation by making people laugh, and they may even laugh
in volunteary really so relief theory. Yeah, and every every
like like every teen movie in history has some dude
(18:07):
in it that tries to get out of a fight
by making jokes, which was also me although I didn't
that wasn't even close to getting in fights, So that's
not really true. That's because you could talk your way
out of him. Like early on, who would want to
beat up Chuck? You know? When't you have to be
the meanest guy in the world. You would not, you
like too much. I think Emily might want to slug
(18:29):
at me every now and then. Yeah, yeah, okay, so
that this is the other the last one in the
big three. Yeah, in congruity theory. Yeah, and this one's
really um A really big part of comedy forever through today,
Forever through today is that um. Emmanuel concept in his
(18:53):
uh Tome the critique of judgment. Laughter is an affectation
arising from the sudden transformation of a strained expectation into nothing.
So the modern version of that is in incongruity resolution. Basically,
you're not getting what you expect, so like a punch
line takes you by surprise, right, like that classic how
(19:14):
do you keep an elephant from charging takeaway his credit card? Hey? Yeah, again,
that wasn't my joke. I'm just giving examples here. Well,
and that's that's sort of the basis of what some
say is the greatest joke the Aristocrats. Did you guys
see that documentary For those of you who don't know,
there's probably like two of you. The the ideas that
a family goes into a talent agent and says they
(19:36):
have a family act. And then the point of the
joke is too nastiest, most blue comedy you can and
it really gets out of hand if you watch this documentary,
which is the point and at the end, the punch
line is what do you call yourselves? The aristocrats? And
it's not so much about the punch line, but that's
definitely the incongruity, right yeah, I think that that's probably
(19:57):
the basis of humors. It's in and grouvous you it's
a an expectation you weren't expecting well, and those are
the best jokes to me is you think you see
it coming and you get surprised at the end. Uh,
there's another name for something like that. It's called And
I didn't even know this was a word till today,
a para prosed Dokian. Has anyone ever heard that? One person? Now? Awesome,
(20:22):
I just made it up. Uh. That is a figure
of speech where the second part causes the audience to
rethink the first part. And it has been going on
since Aristotle. For instance, he said on his feet he
wore blisters. That's one example. Groucho Marks, I've had a
perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it. That's that kind
(20:43):
of joke. Uh, the great Homer Simpson like that, that
was unexpected. Uh. If I could just say a few words,
I'd be a better public speaker. And Mitch Hedberg, who
I know, you love, the late great Mitch Heedburgh. I
haven't slept for ten days because that would be too long.
(21:05):
Not the good miss Hamburg too. I did some heroin
before I came in. Right, Wow, that is not funny. Actually,
you know what we're gonna be getting into that was
a perfect setup. We're getting into heroine. No joking about
things that divide the what you should be joking about. Yeah,
it is like someone dying of a heroin over there
too soon. That was like ten years ago, Thank you buddy. Um.
(21:29):
So you take the big three and you take a
little bit of this, and you take a little bit
of that, and you put them together and you can
basically explain like just about any bit of humor after
the fact. That's the key here, um if by I guess,
just mixing him up. So you have, for example, the
benign violation theory, which is what you're talking about, Like,
(21:50):
that's the idea that there you have a little bit
of incongruity, a little bit of superiority. You mix them
together and right you you can come up with a
joke that will make people laugh. But there's also a
line apparently it's across it right with miss hedbird jokes.
That's the line, um. And once you cross that line,
(22:12):
then you you quickly go from humor to raising the
ire of a of a audience. Right, Yeah, they say,
not want to do Yeah, you like you should keep
a safe psychological distance, is what they say, where the
humor isn't so real and the whole too soon thing
is totally true. There's a certain amount of time and
it's different for everyone in that line is different for
(22:32):
everyone that's why it's dangerous to be a comic who
kind of skirts around those kind of jokes. Ask Gilbert Godfrey,
what did he do? He tweeted a joke about I
don't even remember what it was about the the Fukushima
earthquake in tsunami. I think like too soon. It was
like while it was going on, he made a joke
about it and he he used to be the affleck
(22:55):
duck and he's not anymore, which is weird. It raises
a point like I feel like the duck. Yeah, yeah,
which I have imagine paid pretty well. You know, he
doesn't really talk like that. I know it's it's not
very well known, but Howard Stern has him on a
telephone message that he played on the show where he
was like, hey Gary, this is Gilbert and I just
wanted to check on the time, and I was like,
no way. Because he never breaks character. He's famous for
(23:18):
always always, always being that guy. I've never heard him
speak other otherwise. Yeah, it's pretty weird. Yeah, I can
imagine um. And on the uh too soon thing, I
was watching Portlandia with Emily the other night and they
have a sketch. I don't know if you've seen at
about nine eleven where Armison they were talking about like
what you were doing during nine eleven when you got
in the news and he was like, where was that? Yeah?
(23:41):
I heard about this? What was what was I doing?
And he's like, oh, I was in New York. That's
where I was. And he's like, and what happened? Um,
thirty three planes or something? No, no, no, I know
what it was. I know what it was. And I
was dying. And Emily was like, I don't know, is
that is that even? And I said, I think the
difference is he's making fun of people the absurdity of
someone who not know where they were nine eleven, not
(24:01):
nine eleven itself, right, So that that slight difference, I
think is what made it funny exactly. There was also
a pretty good UM story about group on Super Bowls
in two thousand eleven. Did you hear about those? So? Like,
for example, ahead Timothy Hutton talking about the plight of
Tibetans and how they are all like basically just screwed
on a daily basis, but they also make a really
(24:23):
good fish curry and you can get a group on
for it in Chicago for like twenty Bucks and then well,
you guys are the only ones who thought it was
funny apparently, because um, group On was like everyone's like,
what are you doing? Group On was like their big debut.
So Timothy Hunton was just like, oh, man, right, why
did I sign it? Seemed funny At the time, I
was just starting to come back, right, yeah, not anymore
(24:46):
Falcon or was he Snowman boy? Which one? Was he? Anyone? Now?
He was like, I got it right off the bat.
To me, he's Turk one and two? Is that who
that was? Yeah? I need to see that movie? All right?
So where are we? Maybe let's get into the science
of the whole thing? Oh wait, uh well, if we're
gonna do that, we should, Chuck, I think maybe stop
(25:07):
here for a message break. Okay, So now we're back,
we actually do that. We beat for Jerry like that.
That gets her attention because she's doing like ten other
things while she added us, oh yeah, okay, uh Chuck,
(25:32):
let's get back to it. Should I we should with
the science of it? Right. So, um, like we said
earlier with the f m R, I, when you put
somebody into it shows you where all the blood flows going,
because it shows you where the oxygen is in the
brain enhance you can surmise what is going on, what
region is lighting up when you activate doing certain things.
And one of the things that they like to do
(25:54):
is tell people jokes, right yeah, or or have them
watch like Seinfeld or something right, which I hope you're
a van of if you're in that study. Even still,
how do you not laugh at Seinfeld? Like? What kind
of soulless person doesn't like sign? Now? Somebody recently I
talked to said that their father didn't like it at all,
hated it and just said he didn't think it was funny.
(26:16):
And I said his soul was dead inside, so yeah,
and he said, yes it is. He seemed too much
or something something's wrong. So Seinfeld and the Simpsons in
one study, right, yeah, two two pretty good picks, I
would say. Um, So what they found was that our
brains actually go through a two part process when we
hear a joke. There's joke detection and then there's joke appreciation.
(26:39):
But apparently this is what's going on in the brain. Well, yeah,
it depends on the joke for sure. Um, but the
joke detection part is probably the most important because you
have to know that you're hearing a joke and your
brain is priming you for the appreciation part, But first
it has to figure it out. And all this is
going on in the left hemisphere, and the reason it
all happens in the least the left hemisphere is that, um,
(27:03):
that's where we sort through novel information and compared to
experiences we've already had. So when you're hearing something like
how do you stop an elephant from charging? Um, you think, okay, well,
I've got an image of an elephant charging. I'm ready
to go. Come on, what's what's coming after this? Plus
you're probably trying to, like me, I try to figure
out a joke sometimes when it's set up punchline like that, right,
(27:25):
And I'll bet that says a lot about you as
a person. I can't wait until they have m R
eyes that show what you're thinking, what you mean, like
like when you behind you like pretty much yeah, yeah,
like like a thought bubble, right man, I knew it.
I knew that's what you were thinking. Um we also
(27:46):
we we it's a little more blue at our live ones.
I don't know if you've caught that or not, but
both and chuck the said, um, no, like, like, what
what would you think of if if someone says, like,
how do you stop an elephant from charge? Quickly try
and figure it out? I think that's just my right side,
and then I probably wouldn't be able to and then
(28:06):
I would hear the punch line and go, that's not
very funny, right, Well, it's not a very funny punch line.
It isn't. But um, once you once you're hearing that,
the brain's primed. I'm sure there's some sort of que
that didn't get into this in this article at all.
But there's got to be some sort of que that
there's a joke coming, you know, like if you walk
up to somebody and say, like, you know, how do
you stop in all the room charging? Probably just the
(28:27):
very virtue, right, that's funny too. And then the guy
like just lace down is like blindly trying to read
a book on the ground. Um, so your left, the
left hemisphere of your brain is working overtime to try
to figure out this joke. And depending on what type
of joke it is, um, different regions are going to
be involved. Yeah, the UM, I think I guess if
(28:49):
you like, the joke is in the amygdala. Well that's
the reward. So if you like the joke, right or
not right? Yeah? Okay, yeah, And I mean like depending
on the type of joke, like for over here where
the gears are going, like your broken area is involved
with language, so a pun is going to make that
area work and broke his area just goes. Yeah, there's
(29:11):
no amig della pay off on that. Not some people
love pun Zoe. I don't get people like that. Are
former colleague Chris Ballette. He was famous for his punch
which it was bad like you. I used to be
like stop, just stop, and he somehow commed with a
pun from stop. You know, so you got broken area. Um,
(29:33):
a guy walks into a bar type of joke, we'll
get the frontal lobe going. That's used with higher reasoning.
Apparently those jokes are very high minded typically or whatever
what else the frontal lobe. If you have damage in
your frontal lobe, they have found that it can prevent
you from understanding jokes and punch lines, which is really sad.
And they apparently tend to prefer slapstick comedy more because
(29:57):
you don't have the process as much, which I think
my have something to do with America's Funny some videos.
We're all slightly but I'm not saying everyone that was
that show has frontal lobe damage. But maybe maybe it's
something you can kind of turn on and off depending
on whether America's Funny or some videos is on. Yeah.
Maybe so, Um, did you know that to the guys
(30:17):
from Mry Science three Theater, three thousand, right for that show?
No way. Yeah, and you can tell too, because like
the qualities stepped up quite a bit. Oh, they're right
for it now, I believe so. Yeah, within the last
few years they were writing. I think Josh just admitted
to recently watching that show. It's true. I like that show.
I said it at the Variety Show. I like ridiculousness too.
(30:38):
I just like that kind of stuff turn your brain off. Yeah,
but my fernal lobe works just fine. Everybody. Well, you're
you're an intellectual guy, so that doesn't surprise me. Sometimes
I think if you're like super intellectual, you might enjoy
just like super based comedy occasionally. Yeah, it's true, it's
a theory. But I read about this study, um that
came up with the idea that brain damage people can't
especially funnal lobe. You said, can't really appreciate jokes because
(31:02):
they can't find the punch line. And one of the
ways they tested him was they showed him a joke
on paper and it was basically like a kid's interviewing
for a summer job and the employer says, um, well,
we'll give you fifty to start, and then after a
month we'll up at the s And then the brain
damage patients were to pick out what the punch line was.
(31:24):
There was great, I'll take it, when do I start?
That's not really it, that's just kind of boring response. Um.
Then there was the punch line, which is okay, well
I'll come back in a month again, not my joke. Uh.
And then the one that the brain damage patients picked
typically was um, hey boss, your nose is too big
(31:47):
for your face and can't you just see like the
person administering this test is just holding back tears that
they were picking that one. But that's what they came
up with. It was you can't really get the punch line. Yeah,
it takes a little a little bit of thought. It's
really sad. Uh. So when we do get a joke
(32:09):
and get that payoff, our old friend dopamine is what's
coming into play. That reward is a shot of dopamine
via the a magdala that we talked about. And it
also explains why it's hard to laugh when you're blue,
when you're sad. Um. I know, everyone that's had a
friend or or relative or family member that's really down
(32:30):
on the dumps, you try and cheer them up, and
sometimes it is just impossible. You know. Yeah, why were
you just getting so mad? And why why was I
just laughing? Yeah? Because you you said that surely all
of you have had a friend or a family member
has been down in the debt. I sound like a
Hallmark Guarden. Yeah, a little bit. It just made me laugh, okay, um.
(32:50):
But yeah, sometimes it's literally impossible to cheer someone up,
um because the meso limbic reward system turns basically shuts
off the dopamine valve and you're not able to laugh. Um.
So it's like it's like their brain is working through
the joke, but they just can't possibly find it funny
because their their mesolympic system is not functioning. And then
(33:12):
you might have this sad exchange, which is didn't you
get it? And they go no, I got it, or
when they're like those funny, but I think it also
explains to when they when you're able to finally reopen
that And this is just my own theory too. Sometimes
you know when you have that laugh that you really
need after being depressed, then sometimes you just can't stop laughing.
(33:33):
That hysterics hysterical thing takes over. And I think it's
because you just get that rush of dopamine again, because
your body craves it like cigarettes. And when it does, right,
when it does pay off, you've got these special helper
cells called spindle cells that just shoot it across your brain.
So if you see somebody laughing like uncontrollably, their brain
(33:53):
is just basically like zapping itself over and over and
over again until the spindle cells just kind of pet
around it. Yeah. Uh, I guess we're at the point
now where we talk about the uncomfortable topic of men
and women and why some people like Christopher Hitchens don't
think women are funny. Take it, Chuck Hitchens. Uh, God
(34:22):
rest his soul was on record in a very famous
Vanity Fair article. Um what's it called? Why women aren't Funny?
I think so, which is a great way to get
a lot of clicks, I guess, and he theorized that
women just weren't as funny, and I disagree. I think
my wife, for one, is hysterical. Well, here's how he
explained it. He said that, um, women don't have the
(34:42):
same need to be funny that men do. That For men,
it's a tool for reproduction to attract a mate by
being funny. And he was saying women just don't need that.
I get that. That was that was pretty much the
basis of his argument. So it wasn't like he just
wrote down like women aren't funny, don't even play right.
It was a little more thought. Um And at Washington
(35:05):
University School of Medicine actually did some studies again with
the Wonder machine, and they did find some interesting differences
between the sexes. UM. Females tend to pick apart verbiage
more UM and derived a more potent meso limbic reward
response when there was a punchline. So I think the
general point is that guys may laugh more, women laugh harder,
(35:30):
which I've seen in action. Yeah, because guys are kind
of dopey and they'll we'll laugh at anything, you know.
But I think women pick it apart more maybe maybe
more a little more intellectual about it, but tend to
get a lot more out of a joke than a
man would. In the end, spindle cells go crazy, they
go crazy. Oh yeah, the magic formula, my friend. Uh
(35:52):
it is um x equals at times help plus and
times though divided by P. I thought you're gonna say,
chardon ay, No that works. Um so, Uh there's statistics
actually yeah kind of. I don't know if it proves
that men are funnier. It shows that women get fewer
(36:16):
laughs than men statistically. So if you have a woman
speaking to an audience, um, she's going to get well,
the man's gonna get a hundred and twenty six percent
more laughs out of that same audience than a female speaker.
Well yeah, and a female speaker, especially to an all
male audience, will get even less laughs. Uh it's science. Yeah,
(36:36):
this is not a saying. That not our jokes and
this is not our position. Yes, they're turning on this.
I feel it. Can you open that door? Quick exit?
Uh so again. Christo Hitchins himself wasn't like we were saying,
it's not like women are funny, But um, I think
there's tons of great female comedians. Well he made that
(36:57):
point too. He didn't say tons, but I mean he did.
He didn't make a point. He's saying like that, you
can't possibly say that there are no funny women. There's
been some really great ones. But I think he was
saying just in general. Here's why, um So, I think
the reason we bring that up is, um, there's gender
differences in humor. Yeah. Um, Like we said, it's very
(37:21):
much based on context. So it's like age, cultural differences, gender,
it all comes into play and everyone's going to find
everything funny. National differences, like apparently we Americans. Everyone here American. Okay,
well we're gonna let you in a little secret. Americans
tend to think that, um that irony, humor that's not
(37:42):
really like mean is funnier, more positive stuff, whereas the
Brits think self deprecation and mean humor is way funnier too. Sarcasm. Yeah, um,
so you put a britain in an American in the
same room telling the same joke, one one is probably
not gonna laugh. Yeah, unless you're a master at mixing
those two things together. I like British humor, Yeah, I
(38:05):
like it too. It depends although oppressions. Well you have to. Now,
I don't get Eddie Iszard. I know everybody loves Eddie
is See. I don't it's what that's it. I'm not
I'm sure that I know what that means. Apparently it's
an Eddie Iszard reference. Is that one of his bits? Okay,
(38:31):
that's kind of that's funny. Yah, what's your name? Lance?
You should just do Eddie Iszard material. Maybe it's the
presentation that's bothering me or the dress. He's like, well, okay, yeah,
well I'm gonna give another shot now. Yeah, that beast
things great, Lance. Lance Iszard just got his brother Eddie
(38:53):
is some extra views. Uh So, recent research on Plato
and Aristotle's theories um abound um. The ancient Greeks claim
that people laughed at malice of others misfortune, yeah, that
superiority thing. Yeah, so it goes way back. People have
always laughed at people that face plant, apparently, or get
kicked in the balls. It's good old school humor. You're
(39:16):
telling you blue um or. They've also found that um
like bosses, and this is a kind of a no brainer,
and they call it the brown nose effect. Bosses tend
to joke more. And if you are an inferior not inferior,
what would you call it? I guess just an employee,
the the high man on the totem pole. What would
(39:38):
you say? Subordinate? There you go. Um, if you're the subordinate,
then you're gonna laugh more at your boss's jokes, just
because you're trying to get in there. Your brown nosing. Well,
I I saw in that same study they were saying, like,
that's possibly an explanation, but they also think that it's
more involuntary rather than a strategy like the uncomfortable not
(40:00):
necessarily uncomfortable. It's almost like you just you're more primed
to laugh at everything when you are at a low
station and a given social situation, because when you laugh,
people tend to like you more. You have a sense
of humor, you attract more friends, and so the more
friends you have, more allies you have, more allies you have,
the higher your station rises. So they were saying they
(40:22):
didn't think it was like an actual strategy that you
just can't help but titter nervously yourself. Maybe I'm not,
I'm just saying other people are. Uh. And finally, The
last thing I have is that, um, they did some
studies on what people do find funny and just daily life,
and it's usually not jokes, and it's usually not a
(40:43):
comedy routine you're watching. It's everyday life. Apparently only traces
back to an actual joke. And seventy of daily laughter
is just laughing at life and the people around you
on a daily basis, right, And supposedly it's not even funny.
Apparently the average person last seventeen point five times a day.
I don't know if we said that. We didn't, but
(41:04):
I wonder about that half laugh. You know, it's just
a hoe or he wasn't so great, but we'll count it. Um.
But this guy named Robert Provine, who's a laughter humor researcher. UM,
he said that most of the stuff that precedes laughter
and daily life, UM, which is called most pre laugh
dialogue is quote like that of an interminable television situation
(41:29):
comedy scripted by an extremely ungifted writer. So it's basically
just like laughing at just dumb stuff that's not even
really funny. It's just kind of said by somebody who
you want to like you. Apparently that's the basis of humor.
There's the s Y s K theory. Boom, I'm done,
(41:51):
man uh all right, so you want to give our
familiar sign off here. Yeah. So if you guys are
interested in this kind of thing, you can find this
article UM on how stuff works dot com by typing?
Is there a scientific formula for funny in the handy
search bar? And since I said handy search bar, it's
time for do you have any listener mail? No, I
(42:13):
should have brought one. Well that's it then, everybody, Thank
you very much for coming out and checking out our
live podcast. We hope you learned some funny stuff, laughed
a little, loved a little. There you go. Thanks for
more on this and thousands of other topics. Is that
(42:35):
how stuff works dot Com? Brought to you by the
all new Toyota Corolla
Brought to you by the all new Toyota Corolla. Ladies
and gentlemen looking to stuff you should know. Hey, and
welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me is
always this, Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and with us as
(00:23):
not always is all of you guys here at l
a podcast, but it's a little unusual. I've only done
this a couple of times before. Yeah, little south by Southwest, Yeah,
comic con and now podcast. That's right, um, and we've
(00:43):
got a pretty good crew here, good group, I can
tell just by the looks of you guys. Um, and uh,
we've got a very special treat for all of you
listeners at home. We're all very excited about it. I
think I'm the most excited about it, but a right,
you're definitely the most excited about it. Uh. And today
we're talking about, um, Chuck, as you were saying, we're
talking about we're gonna answer a question, is there a
(01:05):
scientific formula for funny? And I guess we can kind
of spoil it now by saying yes and not really right,
And that was it. That's all. That's the podcast. UM.
I do have an intro if you're interested in hearing it. Um,
(01:26):
remember our ghosts episode? Yeah, that was pretty bad, so
we I liked it. We got a lot of We
got a lot of crud from skeptics surprised they didn't
like our ghost episode. Um. But there was a guy,
a researcher named Richard Wiseman from Hertfordshire University in the UK.
Go Figgy Puddings, Um, and they Richard, why do you
(01:52):
remember who I'm talking about? I remember the guy. We
interpreted his his research and the ghosts, which is basically
used to debunk ghosts. We took what he found as
evidence there there may be such things as ghosts, and
the skeptics didn't like that at all. But he's done
some other stuff too, So he makes an appearance in
this podcast as of right now because before he was
(02:13):
doing ghost stuff, he was doing humor research. I am
back in two thousands two. He set up a website
called laugh Lab and he wanted to find the world's
funniest joke. Really yeah, not to be confused with the
funniest joke in the world, the Monty Python thing. This
is different. Um. And there were forty thousand submissions I
think one point four million hits and this is prior
(02:35):
to social media, so these are pretty respectable numbers if
you think about it. And they found the world's funniest joke.
I generally don't know this, so I'm on pins and needles.
Do you want to hear? Okay? So this guy is
out hunting with a friend of his in the woods
and the friend suddenly just drops over falls to the ground,
(02:56):
and the hunter picks up his cell phone and he
calls nine on one and he's is, hey, I think
my friend just died. We're out here in the woods hunting.
What should I do? And the nine and one operator says, well,
first let's make sure he's dead, and so the hunter
shoots his friend and he goes, okay, Now what that's
the world's funniest joke. It's not okay, but the so
(03:19):
ahead of mixed reaction and what we're talking about now
is the world's funniest joke. And it got a couple
of laughs here, right. Yeah. I think what that proves
and the point of this long rambling intro is that, um,
we pretty much can't predict what's funny, what people are
gonna find funny, and uh, let's talk about exactly why
that is chuckers. Yes, well it's subjective, but we'll get
(03:42):
to that later. Right, Well, we can just throw our
opinions out then and be right. Well they've been. Even
though there is no formula as of yet, it doesn't
mean people haven't tried to find out. Dating all the
way back to the first masters of comedy, Aristotle and Plato,
two very funny guys, they talked a lot about it, actually,
surprisingly and um, they basically try to look at what
(04:06):
compels people to laugh. And Aristotle, I think he thought
that we're the we were the only creatures to laugh.
Is that right? Yeah, that was just a human phenomenon,
which is wrong. It's right because it turns out, and
this is the cutest part of the show too. Um,
chimpanzees and ring tangs and apes not only laugh when
you tickle them, but if you go to a baby chimp,
(04:29):
you don't even have to make contact. You can just
do the little here I come with the fingers and
the baby chimp will laugh. Apparently, And uh, I did
look up chimpanzee laughter and it's not um like humans
make the hehes and the ho hoes. There's more of
a gasping sound apparently, rats do the same thing when
you tickle that. No, we talked about this and the
(04:50):
What's So Funny episode? We remember rat tickling with there's
videos of it out there. They get like a little
high pitched thing. It's the cutest thing you've ever seen,
like somebody tickling a rat and the rats is like,
it's it's very cute. But so yes, at the very least,
laughter or taking tickling is funny. Is it goes across species? Yeah,
(05:11):
And we did cover some of this in the show
on did we call it What's So Funny? I think
so okay um, But laughter is UH is definitely a
human thing, aside from the primates and the rats, I think,
and it consists of variations of one single basic form.
It's vowel like sounds repeated every two and ten milliseconds,
and human skin either he he like you just did,
(05:33):
or a variation of a ho ho, but you don't
mix them. Apparently there's never been someone that laughs he
ho he ho, because that would be up if that's
how you laugh and your your facial muscles get going.
There's fifteen facial muscles that contract and strain UH. The
zygomatic major muscle, which is your upper lip is is triggered. Um,
(05:57):
if it's really good, you might get the tear ducks going.
Gonna know, we've all been there, and you're gonna be
gasping and your respiratory system is struggling basically to breathe
at that point, chimp like a baby chip. Uh. So
that's basically what laughter is babies human babies. Human babies
start at about three or four months if they have
a sense of humor, I guess, and uh, some reachers
(06:21):
researchers have found that, um, we are thirty times more
likely to laugh in the company of others, uh than
when you're alone. So it's definitely a social thing. And
that is if because I read that first, that and
I was like, clearly they've never watched Portlandia or Eastbounding
down alone on the couch at midnight. But I mean
that's a good point because when you're watching it by yourself, like,
(06:43):
you may laugh, but you're not necessarily laughing your off.
I guess there's another way to put it. Yet, well
I do, oh you do, of course. But that stat
though was Um, that was the caveat is that's not
including TV or any kind of external stimulation, Like if
you're just alone and you like think a funny thought
or see a funny thing, you're way less likely to
(07:05):
laugh if you're by yourself. Okay, all right, but whether
you are in China or Santa Monica, wherever you are,
laughter is gonna sound very similar like you were saying,
and um, there is going to be such thing as humor.
It's not necessarily going to be the same thing in
China as it is in Santa Monica that gets laughs,
(07:26):
like it would just be dead silent right now if
we were in Beijing. Sounded like for a second. But
so the point is as humor as universal, but it's
constrained by all these different contexts like um uh, well,
like where you are and not just space but also time.
Like what guys like Ben Franklin thought was funny, it
(07:49):
just kind of falls flat today, Like turkey jokes, apple
apple brandy jokes. That's a turkey joke. He had a couple.
They weren't that good. They're not, they're not. They don't
bear eating here. But that all that put together, gender differences,
economic differences, all of these things kind of separate like
what's funny from what's not funny depending on who you are. Um,
(08:13):
but from Aristotle to Plato was one, wasn't he hum
all the way up to Schopenhauer. Another hilarious dude, Kyrka Guard,
who by the way, has a great Twitter feed. Um,
Kyrka Kardashian, it's um, are you guys familiar with it?
It's awesome. It's uh Kirka Guards philosophical musings and he
(08:37):
was pretty dark. UM mashed together with Kim Kardashian's contemporary tweets.
Let's just go check it out. It's like you'll you
will definitely follow it. Not her old tweets, now her contemporary. Yeah,
like for I'll give you one. Okay, that's how one
today It's it's worth saying. Um. She said, Hey, I
can't wait until you guys, um smell my new fragrance
(09:00):
coming out this spring. It reeks of the misery of
modern life. That was just an average one too. We
got we got more than a he heat out of
this guy. It's good right Uh for me, I'm I've
actually blogged about it the other day. Um, short jokes
to me are the best brevity is the soul of
(09:21):
wit or as they said on the Simpsons brevity is
with of course they had to one up it. And
my hero and many writers heroes, is the Great Jack Handy,
who is a real person. By the way, I don't
mean a lot of people think that Deep Thoughts by
Jack Andy was just some you know, made up name,
Like there's no one named Jack Handy. It's written by,
(09:42):
you know, just one of the SNL writers. He was
an lent writer and his name is Jack Handy, and
he has been sort of obsessed with creating the perfect
short joke over his career. He's the closest he thinks
he's ever come. And it's pretty good, I think, is uh.
The crows seemed to be calling his name. Thought to
call not bad. That's Jack Handy thinks that's the best
(10:06):
short joke he's ever written. Jack knows what he's talking,
so good and uh. It was in a McSweeney's article
that I first read about this from the New York Times. Um,
they were talking about the New York Times that that
writer thought the best one was. And this is pretty
good too. I came here in peace, seeking gold and slaves.
(10:27):
So for me, the Great Jack Handy is trying to
get a laugh out of the fewest amount of words. Um.
I came here in peking Golden slaves, five syllable set up,
five syllable punchline, beautiful, clean, the master for me? What's
funny is this? Actually? In my research I ran across um,
a real formula for funny. Um. That was the yes
(10:49):
part of the answer. Um alcohol plus joke greater than okay.
So it's X equals F times L plus end times oh,
divided by P And in those values in there, well,
p p actually penalizes you because that's the number of
puns that's in the jokes. So you get all these
(11:11):
all these points and then it divided by the number
of puns you used. So um. But one of the
one of the formulas that that builds up the funniness
of a joke is how long it takes for the
punch line to build and then finally pay off. So
it's like pretty much the opposite of it. So even
Jack Handy and whoever came up with this formula can't
agree on how to make something funnier. To figure out
(11:32):
what's the funniest. Yeah, Well, if it was easy, everyone
would be doing it, clearly, And we've seen a lot
of I know you go to see a lot of
stand up comics a lot, and yeah, you're really into it.
And through our job, we've gotten to see a lot
and it's really fascinating, especially when you meet some of them,
to see them working this stuff out, especially if you
see them more than once doing kind of the same
material and the subtle changes. I just I think it's
(11:55):
really fascinating. And I've been writing a stand aback for
like ten years. How's it going. It's going pretty good.
Care to do so? No, not at all. It's got
a mike, you have an audience. No, no, no, no,
I don't like. I wouldn't have be I would have
not even brought it up. There was a writer I know.
Uh that was a writer named Debrah Solomon for New
(12:16):
York Times magazine though that asked Chris Rock and I'm
not gonna do my Chris Rock, don't worry, um what's funny?
And his reply was, and it kind of says it
all is, you want to know what's funny? Is thinking
about it? What's not funny? Oh yeah, chuck blew that joke.
It's not a joke. Yeah, you want to know it's
not funny. It's thinking about it, thank you for that,
(12:37):
or talking about it, which is what we're doing. So
stop laughing because this is not funny. Apparently that's right,
all right, So, um, we are not the only people
who have ever said, you know, is can you figure
out what's funny? Scientifically? There's actually a whole study. It's
called humor studies, and strangely enough, it's not taken very
seriously among psychologists. Um, although there's you know, an equal
(13:01):
dedicated amount of work applied to it using the scientific method.
You have the International Society for Humor Studies. They've been
around since the eighties. They're trying to like keep the
flame going. And apparently, um, ever since we started putting
people into the Wonder Machine and asking them questions or um,
telling them jokes, we've gotten like a lot more scientific
(13:23):
basis of what's funny. We'll get into that in a
little bit. Yeah, that's the f m R I or
the m R I machine. You don't want to know that.
That's our little name for though. Um. But prior to this,
prior to the Wonder Machine being rolled out, like people
have just kind of it's basically been up to philosophers
to figure out what's funny, and they've come up with
some pretty good theories. And there's a big three. There's
I think as many I saw as many as a
(13:45):
hundred theories of humor, but then it's been whittled down
to a big three, like pretty much arbitrarily. Or else
people are like, maybe these three are the right ones.
Who knows, but I think he's kind of hit on it.
Um Number one is the superiority theory um Plato, Aristotle, Hobbs.
They all sort of focus on this dark side of
comedy and we've all been there. Um, Laughing at someone
(14:08):
else's expense sometimes can be quite a good time. It's
pretty much like, Um, this theory would be supported by
Dwight shrewked like watching him. Yeah, you know, were listening
to him for sure. And I might have told this
on another show. But one of the funniest things I
ever saw Bless You, Bless You, was in college in Athens, Georgia.
(14:29):
I saw a guy face plant really really bad on
campus one day. You're already laughing, did you laugh? Well?
I laughed at this. The dude fell busted face forward,
books went spilling out on the sidewalk, and I swear
to God. Immediately the guy went like this and opened
up a book on the sidewalk like he was reading.
(14:52):
And I was driving and I saw this happen, and
I wanted to pull the car over and say, dude,
you are the funniest person I've ever seen in my life,
because it was just his instinct to play it off
like that. And that was man. That was like seventeen
years ago, and it's stuck with me this day. I
don't know who that guy was, but I want to
meet him still, if you're out there, way to go, man, Yeah, yeah,
but it was I don't know if I would have
laughed at his expense had he not done that, because
(15:14):
when although the America's funny some video effect, i'll call it, yeah,
kicked in the nuts juggernaut, that is very much the
superiority theory in action. It is, or it is pretty
much the converse theory that says the same thing but
has a kind of a different take of It's called
inferiority theory. It's like the person whoever came up with
(15:35):
this is like the person who who raises the last
um bet by a dollar on the prices, right, you know, Oh,
superiority theory. How about inferiority theory? Um they what they
came up with was that we see and that guy falling.
You don't feel better about yourself. You see part of
(15:55):
yourself and him like you could have just as easily
fallen or whatever. Yeah, but I wouldn't have been cool
enough to play it off like I was reading a book.
I would have picked up my books and ran home.
Don't laugh at me. So that's where, Yeah, that's where
the admiration kicks in a right. Number two we are
we're in the relief theory, which is Freud's theory, which
(16:17):
means it's wrong. Man, you got it. You've had a
bone to pick with Freud since I've known you. I
like Malcolm Bladwell, I like um see is like as
I just started twitching involuntarily. I like I like Freud
as a person. I like what he was trying to do.
I just think he was just kind of full of it.
All right, So what did Freud say? He wrote about
(16:40):
joking Believe it or not, This is actually um the
his his theory that I agree with the most. Probably
his theory of um humor is really theory, and that
I totally agree. We have like it's it's a build
up of wait for it, sexual energy that we release
surprised in some way, bless you that this live podcasting
(17:01):
is funny and it's like a whole other sneezy know
um that we were. We're getting out sexual energy, intellectual energy,
whatever is pent up through laughter, which makes sense to
a certain degree, like there are there are things that
you laugh at that you can point to and say,
may may right here. Yeah, or I think self deprecation
(17:22):
might fall into that a little bit too, like taking
the things that make you feel bad, making a joke
about of it. I've lived my whole life this way basically,
Or anyone that listens to Howard Stern he's been joking
about his small penis for twenty five years. Who knows
if that's true. I think it probably is. But he's
definitely made a point of joking about it for you know,
forever five years. Joke man, That means it's it's definitely true.
(17:45):
So that's the relief theory. And and I think there's
you know, put a lot of stock in that for sure.
Well yeah, I mean it's like adding levity to a situation. Yeah,
if and it works, like you can defuse in tense
situation by making people laugh, and they may even laugh
in volunteary really so relief theory. Yeah, and every every
like like every teen movie in history has some dude
(18:07):
in it that tries to get out of a fight
by making jokes, which was also me although I didn't
that wasn't even close to getting in fights, So that's
not really true. That's because you could talk your way
out of him. Like early on, who would want to
beat up Chuck? You know? When't you have to be
the meanest guy in the world. You would not, you
like too much. I think Emily might want to slug
(18:29):
at me every now and then. Yeah, yeah, okay, so
that this is the other the last one in the
big three. Yeah, in congruity theory. Yeah, and this one's
really um A really big part of comedy forever through today,
Forever through today is that um. Emmanuel concept in his
(18:53):
uh Tome the critique of judgment. Laughter is an affectation
arising from the sudden transformation of a strained expectation into nothing.
So the modern version of that is in incongruity resolution. Basically,
you're not getting what you expect, so like a punch
line takes you by surprise, right, like that classic how
(19:14):
do you keep an elephant from charging takeaway his credit card? Hey? Yeah, again,
that wasn't my joke. I'm just giving examples here. Well,
and that's that's sort of the basis of what some
say is the greatest joke the Aristocrats. Did you guys
see that documentary For those of you who don't know,
there's probably like two of you. The the ideas that
a family goes into a talent agent and says they
(19:36):
have a family act. And then the point of the
joke is too nastiest, most blue comedy you can and
it really gets out of hand if you watch this documentary,
which is the point and at the end, the punch
line is what do you call yourselves? The aristocrats? And
it's not so much about the punch line, but that's
definitely the incongruity, right yeah, I think that that's probably
(19:57):
the basis of humors. It's in and grouvous you it's
a an expectation you weren't expecting well, and those are
the best jokes to me is you think you see
it coming and you get surprised at the end. Uh,
there's another name for something like that. It's called And
I didn't even know this was a word till today,
a para prosed Dokian. Has anyone ever heard that? One person? Now? Awesome,
(20:22):
I just made it up. Uh. That is a figure
of speech where the second part causes the audience to
rethink the first part. And it has been going on
since Aristotle. For instance, he said on his feet he
wore blisters. That's one example. Groucho Marks, I've had a
perfectly wonderful evening, but this wasn't it. That's that kind
(20:43):
of joke. Uh, the great Homer Simpson like that, that
was unexpected. Uh. If I could just say a few words,
I'd be a better public speaker. And Mitch Hedberg, who
I know, you love, the late great Mitch Heedburgh. I
haven't slept for ten days because that would be too long.
(21:05):
Not the good miss Hamburg too. I did some heroin
before I came in. Right, Wow, that is not funny. Actually,
you know what we're gonna be getting into that was
a perfect setup. We're getting into heroine. No joking about
things that divide the what you should be joking about. Yeah,
it is like someone dying of a heroin over there
too soon. That was like ten years ago, Thank you buddy. Um.
(21:29):
So you take the big three and you take a
little bit of this, and you take a little bit
of that, and you put them together and you can
basically explain like just about any bit of humor after
the fact. That's the key here, um if by I guess,
just mixing him up. So you have, for example, the
benign violation theory, which is what you're talking about, Like,
(21:50):
that's the idea that there you have a little bit
of incongruity, a little bit of superiority. You mix them
together and right you you can come up with a
joke that will make people laugh. But there's also a
line apparently it's across it right with miss hedbird jokes.
That's the line, um. And once you cross that line,
(22:12):
then you you quickly go from humor to raising the
ire of a of a audience. Right, Yeah, they say,
not want to do Yeah, you like you should keep
a safe psychological distance, is what they say, where the
humor isn't so real and the whole too soon thing
is totally true. There's a certain amount of time and
it's different for everyone in that line is different for
(22:32):
everyone that's why it's dangerous to be a comic who
kind of skirts around those kind of jokes. Ask Gilbert Godfrey,
what did he do? He tweeted a joke about I
don't even remember what it was about the the Fukushima
earthquake in tsunami. I think like too soon. It was
like while it was going on, he made a joke
about it and he he used to be the affleck
(22:55):
duck and he's not anymore, which is weird. It raises
a point like I feel like the duck. Yeah, yeah,
which I have imagine paid pretty well. You know, he
doesn't really talk like that. I know it's it's not
very well known, but Howard Stern has him on a
telephone message that he played on the show where he
was like, hey Gary, this is Gilbert and I just
wanted to check on the time, and I was like,
no way. Because he never breaks character. He's famous for
(23:18):
always always, always being that guy. I've never heard him
speak other otherwise. Yeah, it's pretty weird. Yeah, I can
imagine um. And on the uh too soon thing, I
was watching Portlandia with Emily the other night and they
have a sketch. I don't know if you've seen at
about nine eleven where Armison they were talking about like
what you were doing during nine eleven when you got
in the news and he was like, where was that? Yeah?
(23:41):
I heard about this? What was what was I doing?
And he's like, oh, I was in New York. That's
where I was. And he's like, and what happened? Um,
thirty three planes or something? No, no, no, I know
what it was. I know what it was. And I
was dying. And Emily was like, I don't know, is
that is that even? And I said, I think the
difference is he's making fun of people the absurdity of
someone who not know where they were nine eleven, not
(24:01):
nine eleven itself, right, So that that slight difference, I
think is what made it funny exactly. There was also
a pretty good UM story about group on Super Bowls
in two thousand eleven. Did you hear about those? So? Like,
for example, ahead Timothy Hutton talking about the plight of
Tibetans and how they are all like basically just screwed
on a daily basis, but they also make a really
(24:23):
good fish curry and you can get a group on
for it in Chicago for like twenty Bucks and then well,
you guys are the only ones who thought it was
funny apparently, because um, group On was like everyone's like,
what are you doing? Group On was like their big debut.
So Timothy Hunton was just like, oh, man, right, why
did I sign it? Seemed funny At the time, I
was just starting to come back, right, yeah, not anymore
(24:46):
Falcon or was he Snowman boy? Which one? Was he? Anyone? Now?
He was like, I got it right off the bat.
To me, he's Turk one and two? Is that who
that was? Yeah? I need to see that movie? All right?
So where are we? Maybe let's get into the science
of the whole thing? Oh wait, uh well, if we're
gonna do that, we should, Chuck, I think maybe stop
(25:07):
here for a message break. Okay, So now we're back,
we actually do that. We beat for Jerry like that.
That gets her attention because she's doing like ten other
things while she added us, oh yeah, okay, uh Chuck,
(25:32):
let's get back to it. Should I we should with
the science of it? Right. So, um, like we said
earlier with the f m R, I, when you put
somebody into it shows you where all the blood flows going,
because it shows you where the oxygen is in the
brain enhance you can surmise what is going on, what
region is lighting up when you activate doing certain things.
And one of the things that they like to do
(25:54):
is tell people jokes, right yeah, or or have them
watch like Seinfeld or something right, which I hope you're
a van of if you're in that study. Even still,
how do you not laugh at Seinfeld? Like? What kind
of soulless person doesn't like sign? Now? Somebody recently I
talked to said that their father didn't like it at all,
hated it and just said he didn't think it was funny.
(26:16):
And I said his soul was dead inside, so yeah,
and he said, yes it is. He seemed too much
or something something's wrong. So Seinfeld and the Simpsons in
one study, right, yeah, two two pretty good picks, I
would say. Um, So what they found was that our
brains actually go through a two part process when we
hear a joke. There's joke detection and then there's joke appreciation.
(26:39):
But apparently this is what's going on in the brain. Well, yeah,
it depends on the joke for sure. Um, but the
joke detection part is probably the most important because you
have to know that you're hearing a joke and your
brain is priming you for the appreciation part, But first
it has to figure it out. And all this is
going on in the left hemisphere, and the reason it
all happens in the least the left hemisphere is that, um,
(27:03):
that's where we sort through novel information and compared to
experiences we've already had. So when you're hearing something like
how do you stop an elephant from charging? Um, you think, okay, well,
I've got an image of an elephant charging. I'm ready
to go. Come on, what's what's coming after this? Plus
you're probably trying to, like me, I try to figure
out a joke sometimes when it's set up punchline like that, right,
(27:25):
And I'll bet that says a lot about you as
a person. I can't wait until they have m R
eyes that show what you're thinking, what you mean, like
like when you behind you like pretty much yeah, yeah,
like like a thought bubble, right man, I knew it.
I knew that's what you were thinking. Um we also
(27:46):
we we it's a little more blue at our live ones.
I don't know if you've caught that or not, but
both and chuck the said, um, no, like, like, what
what would you think of if if someone says, like,
how do you stop an elephant from charge? Quickly try
and figure it out? I think that's just my right side,
and then I probably wouldn't be able to and then
(28:06):
I would hear the punch line and go, that's not
very funny, right, Well, it's not a very funny punch line.
It isn't. But um, once you once you're hearing that,
the brain's primed. I'm sure there's some sort of que
that didn't get into this in this article at all.
But there's got to be some sort of que that
there's a joke coming, you know, like if you walk
up to somebody and say, like, you know, how do
you stop in all the room charging? Probably just the
(28:27):
very virtue, right, that's funny too. And then the guy
like just lace down is like blindly trying to read
a book on the ground. Um, so your left, the
left hemisphere of your brain is working overtime to try
to figure out this joke. And depending on what type
of joke it is, um, different regions are going to
be involved. Yeah, the UM, I think I guess if
(28:49):
you like, the joke is in the amygdala. Well that's
the reward. So if you like the joke, right or
not right? Yeah? Okay, yeah, And I mean like depending
on the type of joke, like for over here where
the gears are going, like your broken area is involved
with language, so a pun is going to make that
area work and broke his area just goes. Yeah, there's
(29:11):
no amig della pay off on that. Not some people
love pun Zoe. I don't get people like that. Are
former colleague Chris Ballette. He was famous for his punch
which it was bad like you. I used to be
like stop, just stop, and he somehow commed with a
pun from stop. You know, so you got broken area. Um,
(29:33):
a guy walks into a bar type of joke, we'll
get the frontal lobe going. That's used with higher reasoning.
Apparently those jokes are very high minded typically or whatever
what else the frontal lobe. If you have damage in
your frontal lobe, they have found that it can prevent
you from understanding jokes and punch lines, which is really sad.
And they apparently tend to prefer slapstick comedy more because
(29:57):
you don't have the process as much, which I think
my have something to do with America's Funny some videos.
We're all slightly but I'm not saying everyone that was
that show has frontal lobe damage. But maybe maybe it's
something you can kind of turn on and off depending
on whether America's Funny or some videos is on. Yeah.
Maybe so, Um, did you know that to the guys
(30:17):
from Mry Science three Theater, three thousand, right for that show?
No way. Yeah, and you can tell too, because like
the qualities stepped up quite a bit. Oh, they're right
for it now, I believe so. Yeah, within the last
few years they were writing. I think Josh just admitted
to recently watching that show. It's true. I like that show.
I said it at the Variety Show. I like ridiculousness too.
(30:38):
I just like that kind of stuff turn your brain off. Yeah,
but my fernal lobe works just fine. Everybody. Well, you're
you're an intellectual guy, so that doesn't surprise me. Sometimes
I think if you're like super intellectual, you might enjoy
just like super based comedy occasionally. Yeah, it's true, it's
a theory. But I read about this study, um that
came up with the idea that brain damage people can't
especially funnal lobe. You said, can't really appreciate jokes because
(31:02):
they can't find the punch line. And one of the
ways they tested him was they showed him a joke
on paper and it was basically like a kid's interviewing
for a summer job and the employer says, um, well,
we'll give you fifty to start, and then after a
month we'll up at the s And then the brain
damage patients were to pick out what the punch line was.
(31:24):
There was great, I'll take it, when do I start?
That's not really it, that's just kind of boring response. Um.
Then there was the punch line, which is okay, well
I'll come back in a month again, not my joke. Uh.
And then the one that the brain damage patients picked
typically was um, hey boss, your nose is too big
(31:47):
for your face and can't you just see like the
person administering this test is just holding back tears that
they were picking that one. But that's what they came
up with. It was you can't really get the punch line. Yeah,
it takes a little a little bit of thought. It's
really sad. Uh. So when we do get a joke
(32:09):
and get that payoff, our old friend dopamine is what's
coming into play. That reward is a shot of dopamine
via the a magdala that we talked about. And it
also explains why it's hard to laugh when you're blue,
when you're sad. Um. I know, everyone that's had a
friend or or relative or family member that's really down
(32:30):
on the dumps, you try and cheer them up, and
sometimes it is just impossible. You know. Yeah, why were
you just getting so mad? And why why was I
just laughing? Yeah? Because you you said that surely all
of you have had a friend or a family member
has been down in the debt. I sound like a
Hallmark Guarden. Yeah, a little bit. It just made me laugh, okay, um.
(32:50):
But yeah, sometimes it's literally impossible to cheer someone up,
um because the meso limbic reward system turns basically shuts
off the dopamine valve and you're not able to laugh. Um.
So it's like it's like their brain is working through
the joke, but they just can't possibly find it funny
because their their mesolympic system is not functioning. And then
(33:12):
you might have this sad exchange, which is didn't you
get it? And they go no, I got it, or
when they're like those funny, but I think it also
explains to when they when you're able to finally reopen
that And this is just my own theory too. Sometimes
you know when you have that laugh that you really
need after being depressed, then sometimes you just can't stop laughing.
(33:33):
That hysterics hysterical thing takes over. And I think it's
because you just get that rush of dopamine again, because
your body craves it like cigarettes. And when it does, right,
when it does pay off, you've got these special helper
cells called spindle cells that just shoot it across your brain.
So if you see somebody laughing like uncontrollably, their brain
(33:53):
is just basically like zapping itself over and over and
over again until the spindle cells just kind of pet
around it. Yeah. Uh, I guess we're at the point
now where we talk about the uncomfortable topic of men
and women and why some people like Christopher Hitchens don't
think women are funny. Take it, Chuck Hitchens. Uh, God
(34:22):
rest his soul was on record in a very famous
Vanity Fair article. Um what's it called? Why women aren't Funny?
I think so, which is a great way to get
a lot of clicks, I guess, and he theorized that
women just weren't as funny, and I disagree. I think
my wife, for one, is hysterical. Well, here's how he
explained it. He said that, um, women don't have the
(34:42):
same need to be funny that men do. That For men,
it's a tool for reproduction to attract a mate by
being funny. And he was saying women just don't need that.
I get that. That was that was pretty much the
basis of his argument. So it wasn't like he just
wrote down like women aren't funny, don't even play right.
It was a little more thought. Um And at Washington
(35:05):
University School of Medicine actually did some studies again with
the Wonder machine, and they did find some interesting differences
between the sexes. UM. Females tend to pick apart verbiage
more UM and derived a more potent meso limbic reward
response when there was a punchline. So I think the
general point is that guys may laugh more, women laugh harder,
(35:30):
which I've seen in action. Yeah, because guys are kind
of dopey and they'll we'll laugh at anything, you know.
But I think women pick it apart more maybe maybe
more a little more intellectual about it, but tend to
get a lot more out of a joke than a
man would. In the end, spindle cells go crazy, they
go crazy. Oh yeah, the magic formula, my friend. Uh
(35:52):
it is um x equals at times help plus and
times though divided by P. I thought you're gonna say,
chardon ay, No that works. Um so, Uh there's statistics
actually yeah kind of. I don't know if it proves
that men are funnier. It shows that women get fewer
(36:16):
laughs than men statistically. So if you have a woman
speaking to an audience, um, she's going to get well,
the man's gonna get a hundred and twenty six percent
more laughs out of that same audience than a female speaker.
Well yeah, and a female speaker, especially to an all
male audience, will get even less laughs. Uh it's science. Yeah,
(36:36):
this is not a saying. That not our jokes and
this is not our position. Yes, they're turning on this.
I feel it. Can you open that door? Quick exit?
Uh so again. Christo Hitchins himself wasn't like we were saying,
it's not like women are funny, But um, I think
there's tons of great female comedians. Well he made that
(36:57):
point too. He didn't say tons, but I mean he did.
He didn't make a point. He's saying like that, you
can't possibly say that there are no funny women. There's
been some really great ones. But I think he was
saying just in general. Here's why, um So, I think
the reason we bring that up is, um, there's gender
differences in humor. Yeah. Um, Like we said, it's very
(37:21):
much based on context. So it's like age, cultural differences, gender,
it all comes into play and everyone's going to find
everything funny. National differences, like apparently we Americans. Everyone here American. Okay,
well we're gonna let you in a little secret. Americans
tend to think that, um that irony, humor that's not
(37:42):
really like mean is funnier, more positive stuff, whereas the
Brits think self deprecation and mean humor is way funnier too. Sarcasm. Yeah, um,
so you put a britain in an American in the
same room telling the same joke, one one is probably
not gonna laugh. Yeah, unless you're a master at mixing
those two things together. I like British humor, Yeah, I
(38:05):
like it too. It depends although oppressions. Well you have to. Now,
I don't get Eddie Iszard. I know everybody loves Eddie
is See. I don't it's what that's it. I'm not
I'm sure that I know what that means. Apparently it's
an Eddie Iszard reference. Is that one of his bits? Okay,
(38:31):
that's kind of that's funny. Yah, what's your name? Lance?
You should just do Eddie Iszard material. Maybe it's the
presentation that's bothering me or the dress. He's like, well, okay, yeah,
well I'm gonna give another shot now. Yeah, that beast
things great, Lance. Lance Iszard just got his brother Eddie
(38:53):
is some extra views. Uh So, recent research on Plato
and Aristotle's theories um abound um. The ancient Greeks claim
that people laughed at malice of others misfortune, yeah, that
superiority thing. Yeah, so it goes way back. People have
always laughed at people that face plant, apparently, or get
kicked in the balls. It's good old school humor. You're
(39:16):
telling you blue um or. They've also found that um
like bosses, and this is a kind of a no brainer,
and they call it the brown nose effect. Bosses tend
to joke more. And if you are an inferior not inferior,
what would you call it? I guess just an employee,
the the high man on the totem pole. What would
(39:38):
you say? Subordinate? There you go. Um, if you're the subordinate,
then you're gonna laugh more at your boss's jokes, just
because you're trying to get in there. Your brown nosing. Well,
I I saw in that same study they were saying, like,
that's possibly an explanation, but they also think that it's
more involuntary rather than a strategy like the uncomfortable not
(40:00):
necessarily uncomfortable. It's almost like you just you're more primed
to laugh at everything when you are at a low
station and a given social situation, because when you laugh,
people tend to like you more. You have a sense
of humor, you attract more friends, and so the more
friends you have, more allies you have, more allies you have,
the higher your station rises. So they were saying they
(40:22):
didn't think it was like an actual strategy that you
just can't help but titter nervously yourself. Maybe I'm not,
I'm just saying other people are. Uh. And finally, The
last thing I have is that, um, they did some
studies on what people do find funny and just daily life,
and it's usually not jokes, and it's usually not a
(40:43):
comedy routine you're watching. It's everyday life. Apparently only traces
back to an actual joke. And seventy of daily laughter
is just laughing at life and the people around you
on a daily basis, right, And supposedly it's not even funny.
Apparently the average person last seventeen point five times a day.
I don't know if we said that. We didn't, but
(41:04):
I wonder about that half laugh. You know, it's just
a hoe or he wasn't so great, but we'll count it. Um.
But this guy named Robert Provine, who's a laughter humor researcher. UM,
he said that most of the stuff that precedes laughter
and daily life, UM, which is called most pre laugh
dialogue is quote like that of an interminable television situation
(41:29):
comedy scripted by an extremely ungifted writer. So it's basically
just like laughing at just dumb stuff that's not even
really funny. It's just kind of said by somebody who
you want to like you. Apparently that's the basis of humor.
There's the s Y s K theory. Boom, I'm done,
(41:51):
man uh all right, so you want to give our
familiar sign off here. Yeah. So if you guys are
interested in this kind of thing, you can find this
article UM on how stuff works dot com by typing?
Is there a scientific formula for funny in the handy
search bar? And since I said handy search bar, it's
time for do you have any listener mail? No, I
(42:13):
should have brought one. Well that's it then, everybody, Thank
you very much for coming out and checking out our
live podcast. We hope you learned some funny stuff, laughed
a little, loved a little. There you go. Thanks for
more on this and thousands of other topics. Is that
(42:35):
how stuff works dot Com? Brought to you by the
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.