October 20, 2016 • 30 mins
Chairman Mao’s paranoia of a Soviet invasion led to hundreds of thousands of Beijing residents put to work for a decade building an 85-square-km underground city to serve as a massive bomb shelter. Instead it’s illegal underground housing today.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to you Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff
Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Josh Clark, There's Charles T. W Chuck Bryant, There's Jerry
So it's Stuff you should know. The Chinese Edition, right,
(00:21):
which probably isn't even hurt in China. Yeah, we say that,
and then we always hear from people like, no, you're
not banned. I get to hear you guys all the
time actually promote you for being such communist lackeys. They're like,
they send a guy to my house to read your
transcripts right at gunpoint. Uh, yeah, this is the China edition.
And you wrote this too, didn't you. Yep, just an
(00:43):
old one. Yep, you just dug it out from the
old memory banks. Yeah. It was on the list. I
think I just ran across it randomly and I was like, oh, yeah,
this one pretty interesting and think yeah, I think so too.
So um. One of the things that interested me was
I did it. I got to do like some historical
research on it. Initially, Are you familiar with the Sino
(01:07):
Russian conflicts along the border starting in the mid seventeenth century,
the uh roman Off Czars versus the Manchu in later
Ming dynasties. I'm more familiar now than I ever have
been before in my life, let's put it that way.
So but it did surprise me. I just kind of thought,
(01:28):
I don't know, I didn't know much about Comy Heart Commy, right, Yeah, yeah,
I mean that's what I would have thought too, UM,
And apparently I did at some point. But now once
I started researching, turns out those guys didn't like each
other so much, and it it actually did go back
to the six hundreds for sure, where UM China apparently
(01:48):
didn't trade outside of China and UM didn't have any diplomats.
The emperor controlled all trade with with other countries, and
it was through a system of trip you where like
you give the emperor the best stuff you got and
he'll see what he wants to give you back. UM.
And the Russians didn't like that very much, so they
(02:09):
just kind of we're a little more tense, a little
more tense, not the best of neighbors. But then yeah,
after World War Two when UM Russia starts taking over
Eurasia and China follows of the Union rather right, thank you,
And then China follow suit with Mause Dun's Communist Revolution. Um. Then, Yeah,
(02:31):
basically this whole area was red, and that's how we
were taught to view it. Right, it's all red, so
it's all the same. But that's that's very much an
oversimplification of the geopolitics of that area. Yeah, like you said,
Commy Hart, Commy, that's kind of what I always thought
was that they were neighbors. They were politically aligned in
the broadest sense, so they what what issues would they have?
(02:55):
But as usual, it's like Nancy Reagan said, kill all
the commie He's like, God, sort them out. You remember
that Saturday Morning cartoons. Um, as usual, the beef is
in the land and neighbors. Oftentimes, whether it's a Georgia
(03:17):
and Tennessee fighting over a river it's water, or it's
um Israel and Palestine, there are a lot of neighbors
that say no, that that stuff is ours, not yours.
And that seems like to be the the heart of
the beef between China and Russia. So I think that
(03:38):
the the border disputes were actually a symptom of a
larger thing, which was which was so MAW Chairman Mao
used to publicly deride the Soviets as revisionists, that they'd
abandoned the roots of revolutionary communism and it were basically sellouts. Interesting, yeah,
(03:59):
and he used to publicly say this stuff about him,
and the Russians would be like, we're sticky you now,
you're you're you talk too much trash, shut up, uh,
and he would talk more trash, Like he criticized um
Khrushchev for backing down from the human missile crisis stuff
like that, Right, it's really like poking them a lot,
and the Soviets, in retaliation withdrew all military and economic support,
(04:24):
and then they recalled all of like the scientists that
were over there working on joint projects, and the scientists
all left with the blueprints to whatever they were working on,
even if it was Chinese technology. So there was like
a lot of tensions, and it seemed to erupt in
the border disputes rather than it was over the border distructions,
you know what I mean. So what we when we
(04:45):
say erupt, we mean erupt with gunfire. And then uh,
the spring of nineteen sixty nine, some bad stuff went
down and marched. Specifically, there was an attack on a
patrol boat. Um what was the name of the river,
the Usuri River, and that's in the eastern border of China,
of course, and twenty four Soviets were left dead and
(05:11):
stuff got real after that. Yeah, the Soviets were like, okay,
it's like that, yea. So they rolled into the area
with tanks, they used missiles, aircraft and took out like
eight hundred Chinese and retaliation that same year, yes, only
losing about sixty of their own, which was a big victory.
And so they said, you see that there's more where
(05:32):
that came from, if you don't mind your peas and cues. Yeah,
And they were saying this to using the New York
Times as this like international mouthpiece, basically threatening one another
through the international press. China said, what are peas and cues?
We we don't have those letters. Well, they have cues
(05:53):
and peas well as you know. It's just a joke. Um.
So mouse Tong says, I understand that this. You're coming
after us now, Um, I think we should have a
plan in place because I don't want you creeping into
let's say Beijing, our capital with all your tanks like
(06:16):
you did along the river there. So here's what we'll do.
Six of the population, go red dawn and head for
the hills. Uh the other Um, here's what we'll do.
Let's all get to work building an underground bunker, but
one that can house of our seven million, which is
(06:39):
quite hit that that number was that about two point
eight millions something like that. Okay, they made enough for
three thousand people. It's not even close, but it's still
a pretty neat accomplishment that they created. Right. Yeah, and
this is um what would be become known as do
you know how to pronounce it? It's exactly like it's spelled.
(07:00):
I looked it up, so go ahead. Dixia Chang. Okay,
I thought that was Chinese for Dixie Chicks. I thought
it would might have been Disha Chang or something. But yeah,
I thought so too. That's why I was like, I'm
not getting this one wrong. I looked it up and
I couldn't find it. I found there's I don't remember
the site, but there's a site where I guess users
(07:22):
submit and say what what language they speak naturally? Naturally um,
So then it will have like this whole list of like,
you know, um Spanish from Catalonia or um like Spanish
spoken by Mexican person or Scandinavian or whatever. But if
you listen to all of them, they're all saying it
(07:43):
the same way. DIXIEA Chang. It's funny some people say shang,
but it's wrong in the uh in the office here,
I know people think we probably never look up pronunciations,
but we do. And YouTube has a lot of them.
Now you know where they will that little thing will
spin and reveal the word, and then the polite lady
computer lady will say it. But here in the office
(08:05):
a lot because it's not worth it to get out
the headphones for just that. So like I'll hear strickling
to the left or Holly over there the right or me,
and you'll just hear random computers all day long with
like Dixia Chang or manarchy. Can you just hearr words
kind of popping up and everyone's like, sorry, sorry, but
I think we all get it. Yeah, alright, so Dixia Chang,
(08:28):
And I mean we should say, we'll get to the
to the meat of this stuff. But an underground bunker
capable of housing three hundred thousand of Beijing's residence was
built because Chairman Mao got paranoid that the Soviets were
going to invade. Also, to a lesser extent, he was
(08:48):
worried about American imperialism extending to China. But really he
was worried the Soviets were going to either invade or
launch some nukes on his people. Um. It was like
my dad when we saw the day after exactly, except
he just put my brother and I to work, whereas
the chairman put I think it was three hundred thousand people.
(09:10):
I found that somewhere. Three thousand was how many people
it could it could house. I thought I was three
hundred thousand working. Maybe it was more than that even No,
I see what you're talking about. There's three hundred thousand
right there. But um, you know, women, children, men, all
kinds of people digging by hand. Yeah, we found this
really cool um blog posts from like two thousand and
(09:31):
ten by a guy named Anthony Tao Um or Dow,
depending on uh, I guess how you say it, um,
And he said that it was basically like an urban
exploration posts. There's a lot of pictures of this abandoned stuff.
It's really cool. But it turns out his relatives, including
(09:51):
his mother, helped build this, so that he includes some
of their recollections in it where they're like, um, like yeah,
we used to go to school. Then you'd come home
from school and you'd work like several hours building this,
like making bricks or digging or something like that. And
so this excavation was being carried out by the very
people who were going to use it as part of
(10:13):
this um this cultural revolution, this great communist experiment that
Chairman Mau was carrying out, like, everybody, just get to
work because the Russians might invade. And he said, very famously, um,
shen madong changji li yang, I'm not saying this correctly,
(10:33):
and then boo chang bah, which means it means dig
deep tunnels, store food, and prepare for war. He told
his population that, and that's what kicked off this thing
in nineteen sixty nine. He really like to get to
the point. Yeah, uh yeah, nineteen sixty nine to nineteen
seventy nine is when this was going on. And uh,
(10:54):
we'll take a little break here and tell you a
little bit about Dixie Chang. You know, everybody, if you're
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Make it professional, make it beautiful. Yeah. I think it
(12:02):
sounds like I'm saying chang with an A, but it's
ching chang with an E. I'm just not good at
It's a Southerner. I'm not going to pronounce in the
E in words like pen. I say pen pen like
P P I N E N chang. Yeah, we got
it alright. So this you say Dixie, I'll say chang.
(12:25):
You say Dixie, I'll say chang DIXIEA chang terrible? So,
uh what lies underground beneath? About twenty six to sixty
feet depending on where you are. There are eighteen miles
roughly of tunnels. Supposedly it connects every district in the city. Yeah,
(12:46):
and for those of us who don't live in the
US or Liberia, that's thirty kilometers of basically underground living
space fifty two square miles five kilometers squared. And um,
it was calling an undertaking. Was as an understatement. It
was a big deal, requiring lots of hands. Yeah. So
(13:12):
they used a lot of the old city gates, um,
the city walls as construction material. But again they were
also making their own bricks and they weren't using like
back hose or anything like that. They were using shovels
and removing dirt with bamboo baskets and making their own
bricks on site. Um. And they constructed this this is
(13:32):
just amazing labyrinth of of not just tunnels, but also
they had bomb shelters. In the bomb shelter, they had
ventilation shafts that were designed to keep out um fallout
and contamination from nuclear weapons or biological or chemical weapons.
I guess they built a great wall. They're like, yeah,
this is nothing exactly. Um. They had recreational stuff too,
(13:56):
like a movie theater. I think a roller skating rink,
basketball courts. Yeah, they had a barber shop, they had restaurants, um,
they had if you wanted to get down in here.
This is kind of the coolest part to me is
there were about ninety different entrances um around the city
that were sometimes in parks, sometimes in a private home,
sometimes in a shop that you needed a black light
(14:19):
to read a special map on the wall. It's like
kind of neat when you think about it like that.
Oh yeah it is. It's like all the residents of
Beijing or clued into this this big secret, you know,
this official secret. Yeah, it is like a speakeasy, except
those places. Come on, didn't that kind of hadn't that
(14:40):
run its course? Uh? Yeah, Like they just opened one
in Atlanta right here next door to us. Where at
the City Winery. Oh really there's a speakeasy day? Yeah,
now there's a speakeasy downstairs. If you know the code word,
you say it at the unmarked door. What's the co Man?
New York did this twenty years ago? What's the cod
this week? Actually wrote it down. So I'm going to
(15:02):
a show there tomorrow night. They have shows at the
Speak even will know. At the City Winery. Um, I'm
going to see Blitz and Trapper my boys. Wow. Yeah,
they're doing like this acoustic storyteller tour. It's neat. Yeah.
Apparently if you go there and you say you know
Miss Violet this week, they'll let you in. It's I'm
gonna go down there and make fun of them and
(15:26):
probably get a drink and leave a big tip. Yeah,
that's what you gotta do. That's right. You're gonna go
there and it's gonna be overrun with people. I just
wonder if you go to one of these places, especially
in Atlanta, like I get it. In New York when
they're supplying demand, they can literally say no, turn around
and go home. But in Atlanta, I would be like, dude,
come on, I don't know the password. Just let me
(15:46):
in the freaking building. And if they literally say no,
then they're dead to me. In fact, on the I'm
not gonna say I know Miss Violet. Oh yeah, you're
gonna test them, huh. I'm gonna say no, Miss Scarlett.
Let me know how that pans out. Well, Ms Scarlett,
I'll send you a text of either me sitting on
the sidewalk drink drinking. Yes, this, it's a substitute. I
(16:12):
used to drink the occasional forty in college, back when
you thought you were cool to do so because the
Beastie boys did it. Yeah, like, drink this swill and
it's totally hot after about the first like ten minutes. Well,
you have to hold it up around the neck. Oh,
is that the deal? Like Champagne I was. I never
got to the bomb because I was pouring some out
(16:32):
for my homies. That's pretty thoughtful of you. So where
were we speakeasies? That's right? Uh no, even further back
than that. Well, yeah, that this the complex. And by
the way, Dixie Ching literally means underground city. Yeah, like
that's it. You don't even capitalize it. Yeah, it was
(16:53):
never used because, um, the Big Apocalypse never happened. Well
not only that chair amount and apparently I didn't know this,
but shortly after he died, I think in the seventies, Um,
his cultural revolution seems to have died with him, which
was news to me because I thought that China was
(17:15):
communists to the core up until a couple of years ago.
But apparently there was a real opening of their culture, um,
like starting pretty much and slowly and incrementally right after
Chairman Mao's death, um and so I saw a bunch
of different stuff. This is part of the problem with
(17:37):
researching China without ever going to China, because like the
dispatches you read from the place where you know, they
just very wildly in the the accounts. And this is
a good example that I saw somewhere that um uh
they so Chairman MoU died nineteen six as saw that
(18:00):
by one they had the place open for tours and
it costs like ten Chinese cents a ticket, and that
you if you were Chinese, you could not even get in.
It was only for tourists. I saw in my own
article that they boarded up and forgot about it, and
it wasn't until like two thousand that people like started
(18:21):
to find their way in. I had the same problem.
I was trying to find out like literally the current state,
because I saw that in two thousand eight uh, in
preparation for the Olympics they closed it for renovations and
it's still not open um And I've tried to find
out like the most recent information. I couldn't. So I'm
going with not even myself. I'm not even going with
(18:42):
my own article, the article where they recounted that it
was ten Chinese cents a ticket to get in back
in one. I'm thinking that's probably right. So you're going
with that because it has numbers in it, right, this
thing is legitimate. All right, Well, let's take our final
break here and we'll come back and talk a little
bit about the rat tribe of Beijing. So Chuck um.
(19:21):
One of the first things that happened, whether it was
in or two thousand, was people started to move into
this area illegally. And at first I get the impression
that they opened up businesses and there was actually like
an official stretch like about a one kilometer stretch of
dixiea Chang that was open for tours like underground Atlanta. Yes,
(19:44):
But then the other like twenty nine kilometers were closed
off permanently and frozen in time. Right. Well, that kind
of stuff attracts people like moths to a flame, especially
like urban explorers. Um. And again, go check out Anthony
Tao's post last visit to Beijing's underground City. It's got
some great photos of this abandoned stuff. But over the
years there are people who have you know, worked their
(20:07):
way into like the other shut off twenty nine kilometers
and have reported back that it's just like eerie a
time capsulers like posters of Chairman Mao on the walls
with um slogans like dig the tunnels deep, accumulate grain
opposed to geminy. Yeah, pictures of it. It's pretty neat, right,
(20:28):
And then get this if you were let's say, like um,
Ronald Reagan had told us all this when we were
kids for the people prepare for war, prepare for famine.
It's kind of unsettling when they keep you on your toes. Um.
So there's a lot of it that's like just this
kind of rotting time capsule. Because again, like you said,
(20:48):
it was never used, but then plenty of it has
been used. Yeah, And that that's I couldn't even figure
out for sure. These are definitely parts of that complex
where people are living. Yes, okay, I didn't know if
it was other shelters. It's both, Okay, it's both got
You're right, all right, So what we're talking about or
(21:09):
is the rat tribe or the sho zoo uh. And
it's basically about a million people. They don't know exact numbers,
but about a million people in Beijing have moved underground,
um about a million of the one million people who
lived there. Yeah, and if if you talk about a
population boom in there were about nine million people in Beijing,
(21:31):
now there's twenty one million. UM. That's a lot of
people and not a very long span of time. So uh,
it's expensive to I really don't know that like median
incomes compared to housing. But this article made it seem
like the only reason these people were doing it is
because they can't afford to live above ground, or that
(21:53):
there's just such a shortage, Like your your choice is this.
You can live above ground in a door rom like
room with six to ten people in the suburbs and
pay about what you would pay for your own room
below ground, which is about fifty to seventy American dollars
a month. Right, So you want to go a little
(22:13):
with six to ten people in a dorm mountain suburbs,
or you want your own cozy, little eight ft by
eight foot concrete room underground. A lot of people are
saying I'd rather be underground, and they're normal people, they're
not Um, it's not like a situation like, uh, I'm
trying to think of something comfarable. But this woman interviewed
(22:35):
a lot of these people. Uh and net Kim from
USC southern California. Go Trojans for our friend Brian Bishop.
Oh yeah, congratulations to Brian on the birth of his child.
Yeah that too. So what she found out was that
as she suspected, these are computer programmers and waiters and
(22:57):
waitresses and uh barbaras and they are literally just mainly
migrants that have come there from the countryside to work.
And they're not weirdos. They just they're like, you know,
this is what I can afford. I have a job
above ground, and h this is just what I how
(23:17):
I choose to live because we don't have a lot
of options. So there's like the specter of MAO is
still around because apparently part of the UM the housing
code in China or in Beijing at least, requires that
if you are going to build like a building, you
have to build something between one to three stories of
(23:39):
basement or um bomb shelter below ground. That's still the thing. Yeah,
so um in addition to people squatting in dixia Chang,
which does happen, these people are going to the owners
of the building and saying can I please stay here.
I'll give you seventy bucks a month. Yeah, they like sure,
(24:01):
and even though it's illegal. Yeah, the owners are like, yeah,
just leave it, leave it under the trash can out
front and I'll come find Yeah, like I'm not using
that tiny room, right because these are you know, small spaces.
They're communal toilets uh and showers. You gotta pay like
fifty cents for a shower for five minutes, is that right? Yeah,
(24:22):
I didn't see that. Yeah. There's this um photographer Sim
Chi Yen based in Beijing and he has a collection
called China's Rat Tribe if you want to look at pictures,
and um, you know it's not there's a stigma to it.
First of all, a because it's illegal. They call him
the rat Tribe and be yeah, because you know, they
interviewed some of these people and the guy was like yeah,
(24:44):
my dad was like, son, no, you can't. You can't
live down here. And he's like, Dad, this is what
I can afford. I've got a job and I don't
want to live with ten people in a room and
there's no windows, it's dark. Apparently there's signs in some
of these tunnels. It advised people to go up and
get fun stuff like that. It's thoughtful, sure. Um. I
(25:06):
think one of the other reasons too why they're considered
like the rat tribe is in a lot of the
cases they're living beneath um fairly tony apartment buildings. So
the people above ground there's like a huge class difference
in the same like sprout of of living space in Beijing,
(25:28):
and the people above ground are not in contact with
the people below ground, and they do not trust them.
They're weird, they're different, they're poor, they're from the country. Um,
so they don't they don't communicate with one another, but
they know they're there. So the people above ground are
very suspicious of the people below ground. H Yeah, apparently
mold is a problem, yeah, because it's you know, undergrounds
(25:49):
kind of dank, so they have to work to keep
mold at bay. And I don't think we mentioned that
the original plan too, with Chairman Maus to grow things
like mushrooms, like things that you didn't need the sun
right to grow down there. You know how fast you
wed get sick of eating mushrooms if that's all you
had to eat. If it was me, it would be
(26:10):
one bite of mushroom later you don't like mushrooms, can't
do it? What if you put soy sauce and mayonnaise
on it? I mean I could choke it down. But
it's a texture thing for me. Uh yeah, you know
it's not even the taste. What about uncooked raw It's
almost got like a bit of a crunch to it.
I'll try one. Yeah, yeah, try like a white button mushroom,
(26:34):
little salt like lick at first. Put a little salt
on it. Think a bit. It's not like the mushroom
you're describing that that slimy texture doesn't have that although
wash it off first. Yeah yeah, you give it a
good scrub with your tongue. I'll bring you one. I
don't want to work. Actually, I have one here in
(26:54):
my pocket. I'm good, okay, pocket mushrooms. No you got
anything else? Uh no? Do you know? Oh? I do
have one other thing. Um. So they were a long time.
There were long standing rumors that they had built like
secret tunnels in this underground bunker Dixie chang Um that
(27:15):
connected to like the People's Hall and other government buildings,
and no one knew if it was real or not
until when the ten m and Square uprising happened, and
all of a sudden, all these government troops come out
of nowhere, flooding out of the People's Hall to quell
these protesters. They're like, oh, those underground tunnels really are real. Yeah,
And apparently there's only out of the ninety original entrances.
(27:38):
There's only a handful of those left. Yeah, because the
the the area where this was built beneath is the
called ken Mien I believe for kenyan Um, and it's
a very famous stretch of like shops uh in Beijing,
and it's been just recreated and rebuilt so much, especially
since right before the Olympics that a lot of these
(27:59):
olds are being leveled and there there to go the
entrances to the places and the fluorescent maps. So it
is in danger of being lost, but it'll still be
there for people to go find. Yeah. Go check out
the pictures. Pretty neat. Yeah. Uh. If you want to
know more about Beijing, type that word in the search
part how stuff works dot com see what comes up.
(28:20):
Press your luck. Since I said press your luck, it's
time for listener mail Ah. This was about the mining episode.
So it's been a bit but um, we always like
good information. So here it is. I've been listening to
your show for about a year now, been blissfully enlightened
on so many topics. Currently pursuing my master's degree in
(28:40):
economic geology. Whoa uh in the unlikely state of Iowa,
and I have a few friendly clarifications. On your mining episode,
you mentioned hard and soft rock mining, and we're unsure
of the difference between the two whether it comes for
the rock or the ore. The term soft and hard
rock mining relates to the hardness of the rock from
which the ore is being extracted, not the ore itself,
(29:04):
so that clears that up good. I think that's what
I said. I don't remember, actually, I think I hedged
and said it could be either one, so that was
right right either way. Uh So, soft rock mining typically
pertains to sedimentary rock, where's hard rock typically pertains to
igneous or metamorphic rocks. Furthermore, just finish your wonderful episode
(29:26):
on ice ages and giggled a little from your pronunciation
of Lois. I was always told it was pronounced luss,
and even though Lois is a bit more fun to say,
I just thought i'd let you guys know, keep up
the amazing work. Thanks for making my ears happy. And Megan,
that is exactly how you send in corrections in a
(29:47):
very nice, friendly way, and that's how you get on
the air, right exactly. And we we love our corrections, uh,
and we tend to favor the ones that are hospitable
because it's just nice in life, right. Thanks Megan, Thank
you for the demonstration. Top notch. If you want to
get in touch with us too, uh and possibly get
complimented by Chuck, you can tweet to us at s
(30:09):
Y s K podcast or josh um Clark. You can
hang out with us on Facebook at Charles W. Chuck
Bryant or Stuff you Should Know. You can send us
an email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot
com and has always joined us out at home on
the web. Stuff you Should Know dot com for more
(30:30):
on this and thousands of other topics. Does it how
Stuff Works dot com
Welcome to you Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff
Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
Josh Clark, There's Charles T. W Chuck Bryant, There's Jerry
So it's Stuff you should know. The Chinese Edition, right,
(00:21):
which probably isn't even hurt in China. Yeah, we say that,
and then we always hear from people like, no, you're
not banned. I get to hear you guys all the
time actually promote you for being such communist lackeys. They're like,
they send a guy to my house to read your
transcripts right at gunpoint. Uh, yeah, this is the China edition.
And you wrote this too, didn't you. Yep, just an
(00:43):
old one. Yep, you just dug it out from the
old memory banks. Yeah. It was on the list. I
think I just ran across it randomly and I was like, oh, yeah,
this one pretty interesting and think yeah, I think so too.
So um. One of the things that interested me was
I did it. I got to do like some historical
research on it. Initially, Are you familiar with the Sino
(01:07):
Russian conflicts along the border starting in the mid seventeenth century,
the uh roman Off Czars versus the Manchu in later
Ming dynasties. I'm more familiar now than I ever have
been before in my life, let's put it that way.
So but it did surprise me. I just kind of thought,
(01:28):
I don't know, I didn't know much about Comy Heart Commy, right, Yeah, yeah,
I mean that's what I would have thought too, UM,
And apparently I did at some point. But now once
I started researching, turns out those guys didn't like each
other so much, and it it actually did go back
to the six hundreds for sure, where UM China apparently
(01:48):
didn't trade outside of China and UM didn't have any diplomats.
The emperor controlled all trade with with other countries, and
it was through a system of trip you where like
you give the emperor the best stuff you got and
he'll see what he wants to give you back. UM.
And the Russians didn't like that very much, so they
(02:09):
just kind of we're a little more tense, a little
more tense, not the best of neighbors. But then yeah,
after World War Two when UM Russia starts taking over
Eurasia and China follows of the Union rather right, thank you,
And then China follow suit with Mause Dun's Communist Revolution. Um. Then, Yeah,
(02:31):
basically this whole area was red, and that's how we
were taught to view it. Right, it's all red, so
it's all the same. But that's that's very much an
oversimplification of the geopolitics of that area. Yeah, like you said,
Commy Hart, Commy, that's kind of what I always thought
was that they were neighbors. They were politically aligned in
the broadest sense, so they what what issues would they have?
(02:55):
But as usual, it's like Nancy Reagan said, kill all
the commie He's like, God, sort them out. You remember
that Saturday Morning cartoons. Um, as usual, the beef is
in the land and neighbors. Oftentimes, whether it's a Georgia
(03:17):
and Tennessee fighting over a river it's water, or it's
um Israel and Palestine, there are a lot of neighbors
that say no, that that stuff is ours, not yours.
And that seems like to be the the heart of
the beef between China and Russia. So I think that
(03:38):
the the border disputes were actually a symptom of a
larger thing, which was which was so MAW Chairman Mao
used to publicly deride the Soviets as revisionists, that they'd
abandoned the roots of revolutionary communism and it were basically sellouts. Interesting, yeah,
(03:59):
and he used to publicly say this stuff about him,
and the Russians would be like, we're sticky you now,
you're you're you talk too much trash, shut up, uh,
and he would talk more trash, Like he criticized um
Khrushchev for backing down from the human missile crisis stuff
like that, Right, it's really like poking them a lot,
and the Soviets, in retaliation withdrew all military and economic support,
(04:24):
and then they recalled all of like the scientists that
were over there working on joint projects, and the scientists
all left with the blueprints to whatever they were working on,
even if it was Chinese technology. So there was like
a lot of tensions, and it seemed to erupt in
the border disputes rather than it was over the border distructions,
you know what I mean. So what we when we
(04:45):
say erupt, we mean erupt with gunfire. And then uh,
the spring of nineteen sixty nine, some bad stuff went
down and marched. Specifically, there was an attack on a
patrol boat. Um what was the name of the river,
the Usuri River, and that's in the eastern border of China,
of course, and twenty four Soviets were left dead and
(05:11):
stuff got real after that. Yeah, the Soviets were like, okay,
it's like that, yea. So they rolled into the area
with tanks, they used missiles, aircraft and took out like
eight hundred Chinese and retaliation that same year, yes, only
losing about sixty of their own, which was a big victory.
And so they said, you see that there's more where
(05:32):
that came from, if you don't mind your peas and cues. Yeah,
And they were saying this to using the New York
Times as this like international mouthpiece, basically threatening one another
through the international press. China said, what are peas and cues?
We we don't have those letters. Well, they have cues
(05:53):
and peas well as you know. It's just a joke. Um.
So mouse Tong says, I understand that this. You're coming
after us now, Um, I think we should have a
plan in place because I don't want you creeping into
let's say Beijing, our capital with all your tanks like
(06:16):
you did along the river there. So here's what we'll do.
Six of the population, go red dawn and head for
the hills. Uh the other Um, here's what we'll do.
Let's all get to work building an underground bunker, but
one that can house of our seven million, which is
(06:39):
quite hit that that number was that about two point
eight millions something like that. Okay, they made enough for
three thousand people. It's not even close, but it's still
a pretty neat accomplishment that they created. Right. Yeah, and
this is um what would be become known as do
you know how to pronounce it? It's exactly like it's spelled.
(07:00):
I looked it up, so go ahead. Dixia Chang. Okay,
I thought that was Chinese for Dixie Chicks. I thought
it would might have been Disha Chang or something. But yeah,
I thought so too. That's why I was like, I'm
not getting this one wrong. I looked it up and
I couldn't find it. I found there's I don't remember
the site, but there's a site where I guess users
(07:22):
submit and say what what language they speak naturally? Naturally um,
So then it will have like this whole list of like,
you know, um Spanish from Catalonia or um like Spanish
spoken by Mexican person or Scandinavian or whatever. But if
you listen to all of them, they're all saying it
(07:43):
the same way. DIXIEA Chang. It's funny some people say shang,
but it's wrong in the uh in the office here,
I know people think we probably never look up pronunciations,
but we do. And YouTube has a lot of them.
Now you know where they will that little thing will
spin and reveal the word, and then the polite lady
computer lady will say it. But here in the office
(08:05):
a lot because it's not worth it to get out
the headphones for just that. So like I'll hear strickling
to the left or Holly over there the right or me,
and you'll just hear random computers all day long with
like Dixia Chang or manarchy. Can you just hearr words
kind of popping up and everyone's like, sorry, sorry, but
I think we all get it. Yeah, alright, so Dixia Chang,
(08:28):
And I mean we should say, we'll get to the
to the meat of this stuff. But an underground bunker
capable of housing three hundred thousand of Beijing's residence was
built because Chairman Mao got paranoid that the Soviets were
going to invade. Also, to a lesser extent, he was
(08:48):
worried about American imperialism extending to China. But really he
was worried the Soviets were going to either invade or
launch some nukes on his people. Um. It was like
my dad when we saw the day after exactly, except
he just put my brother and I to work, whereas
the chairman put I think it was three hundred thousand people.
(09:10):
I found that somewhere. Three thousand was how many people
it could it could house. I thought I was three
hundred thousand working. Maybe it was more than that even No,
I see what you're talking about. There's three hundred thousand
right there. But um, you know, women, children, men, all
kinds of people digging by hand. Yeah, we found this
really cool um blog posts from like two thousand and
(09:31):
ten by a guy named Anthony Tao Um or Dow,
depending on uh, I guess how you say it, um,
And he said that it was basically like an urban
exploration posts. There's a lot of pictures of this abandoned stuff.
It's really cool. But it turns out his relatives, including
(09:51):
his mother, helped build this, so that he includes some
of their recollections in it where they're like, um, like yeah,
we used to go to school. Then you'd come home
from school and you'd work like several hours building this,
like making bricks or digging or something like that. And
so this excavation was being carried out by the very
people who were going to use it as part of
(10:13):
this um this cultural revolution, this great communist experiment that
Chairman Mau was carrying out, like, everybody, just get to
work because the Russians might invade. And he said, very famously, um,
shen madong changji li yang, I'm not saying this correctly,
(10:33):
and then boo chang bah, which means it means dig
deep tunnels, store food, and prepare for war. He told
his population that, and that's what kicked off this thing
in nineteen sixty nine. He really like to get to
the point. Yeah, uh yeah, nineteen sixty nine to nineteen
seventy nine is when this was going on. And uh,
(10:54):
we'll take a little break here and tell you a
little bit about Dixie Chang. You know, everybody, if you're
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Make it professional, make it beautiful. Yeah. I think it
(12:02):
sounds like I'm saying chang with an A, but it's
ching chang with an E. I'm just not good at
It's a Southerner. I'm not going to pronounce in the
E in words like pen. I say pen pen like
P P I N E N chang. Yeah, we got
it alright. So this you say Dixie, I'll say chang.
(12:25):
You say Dixie, I'll say chang DIXIEA chang terrible? So,
uh what lies underground beneath? About twenty six to sixty
feet depending on where you are. There are eighteen miles
roughly of tunnels. Supposedly it connects every district in the city. Yeah,
(12:46):
and for those of us who don't live in the
US or Liberia, that's thirty kilometers of basically underground living
space fifty two square miles five kilometers squared. And um,
it was calling an undertaking. Was as an understatement. It
was a big deal, requiring lots of hands. Yeah. So
(13:12):
they used a lot of the old city gates, um,
the city walls as construction material. But again they were
also making their own bricks and they weren't using like
back hose or anything like that. They were using shovels
and removing dirt with bamboo baskets and making their own
bricks on site. Um. And they constructed this this is
(13:32):
just amazing labyrinth of of not just tunnels, but also
they had bomb shelters. In the bomb shelter, they had
ventilation shafts that were designed to keep out um fallout
and contamination from nuclear weapons or biological or chemical weapons.
I guess they built a great wall. They're like, yeah,
this is nothing exactly. Um. They had recreational stuff too,
(13:56):
like a movie theater. I think a roller skating rink,
basketball courts. Yeah, they had a barber shop, they had restaurants, um,
they had if you wanted to get down in here.
This is kind of the coolest part to me is
there were about ninety different entrances um around the city
that were sometimes in parks, sometimes in a private home,
sometimes in a shop that you needed a black light
(14:19):
to read a special map on the wall. It's like
kind of neat when you think about it like that.
Oh yeah it is. It's like all the residents of
Beijing or clued into this this big secret, you know,
this official secret. Yeah, it is like a speakeasy, except
those places. Come on, didn't that kind of hadn't that
(14:40):
run its course? Uh? Yeah, Like they just opened one
in Atlanta right here next door to us. Where at
the City Winery. Oh really there's a speakeasy day? Yeah,
now there's a speakeasy downstairs. If you know the code word,
you say it at the unmarked door. What's the co Man?
New York did this twenty years ago? What's the cod
this week? Actually wrote it down. So I'm going to
(15:02):
a show there tomorrow night. They have shows at the
Speak even will know. At the City Winery. Um, I'm
going to see Blitz and Trapper my boys. Wow. Yeah,
they're doing like this acoustic storyteller tour. It's neat. Yeah.
Apparently if you go there and you say you know
Miss Violet this week, they'll let you in. It's I'm
gonna go down there and make fun of them and
(15:26):
probably get a drink and leave a big tip. Yeah,
that's what you gotta do. That's right. You're gonna go
there and it's gonna be overrun with people. I just
wonder if you go to one of these places, especially
in Atlanta, like I get it. In New York when
they're supplying demand, they can literally say no, turn around
and go home. But in Atlanta, I would be like, dude,
come on, I don't know the password. Just let me
(15:46):
in the freaking building. And if they literally say no,
then they're dead to me. In fact, on the I'm
not gonna say I know Miss Violet. Oh yeah, you're
gonna test them, huh. I'm gonna say no, Miss Scarlett.
Let me know how that pans out. Well, Ms Scarlett,
I'll send you a text of either me sitting on
the sidewalk drink drinking. Yes, this, it's a substitute. I
(16:12):
used to drink the occasional forty in college, back when
you thought you were cool to do so because the
Beastie boys did it. Yeah, like, drink this swill and
it's totally hot after about the first like ten minutes. Well,
you have to hold it up around the neck. Oh,
is that the deal? Like Champagne I was. I never
got to the bomb because I was pouring some out
(16:32):
for my homies. That's pretty thoughtful of you. So where
were we speakeasies? That's right? Uh no, even further back
than that. Well, yeah, that this the complex. And by
the way, Dixie Ching literally means underground city. Yeah, like
that's it. You don't even capitalize it. Yeah, it was
(16:53):
never used because, um, the Big Apocalypse never happened. Well
not only that chair amount and apparently I didn't know this,
but shortly after he died, I think in the seventies, Um,
his cultural revolution seems to have died with him, which
was news to me because I thought that China was
(17:15):
communists to the core up until a couple of years ago.
But apparently there was a real opening of their culture, um,
like starting pretty much and slowly and incrementally right after
Chairman Mao's death, um and so I saw a bunch
of different stuff. This is part of the problem with
(17:37):
researching China without ever going to China, because like the
dispatches you read from the place where you know, they
just very wildly in the the accounts. And this is
a good example that I saw somewhere that um uh
they so Chairman MoU died nineteen six as saw that
(18:00):
by one they had the place open for tours and
it costs like ten Chinese cents a ticket, and that
you if you were Chinese, you could not even get in.
It was only for tourists. I saw in my own
article that they boarded up and forgot about it, and
it wasn't until like two thousand that people like started
(18:21):
to find their way in. I had the same problem.
I was trying to find out like literally the current state,
because I saw that in two thousand eight uh, in
preparation for the Olympics they closed it for renovations and
it's still not open um And I've tried to find
out like the most recent information. I couldn't. So I'm
going with not even myself. I'm not even going with
(18:42):
my own article, the article where they recounted that it
was ten Chinese cents a ticket to get in back
in one. I'm thinking that's probably right. So you're going
with that because it has numbers in it, right, this
thing is legitimate. All right, Well, let's take our final
break here and we'll come back and talk a little
bit about the rat tribe of Beijing. So Chuck um.
(19:21):
One of the first things that happened, whether it was
in or two thousand, was people started to move into
this area illegally. And at first I get the impression
that they opened up businesses and there was actually like
an official stretch like about a one kilometer stretch of
dixiea Chang that was open for tours like underground Atlanta. Yes,
(19:44):
But then the other like twenty nine kilometers were closed
off permanently and frozen in time. Right. Well, that kind
of stuff attracts people like moths to a flame, especially
like urban explorers. Um. And again, go check out Anthony
Tao's post last visit to Beijing's underground City. It's got
some great photos of this abandoned stuff. But over the
years there are people who have you know, worked their
(20:07):
way into like the other shut off twenty nine kilometers
and have reported back that it's just like eerie a
time capsulers like posters of Chairman Mao on the walls
with um slogans like dig the tunnels deep, accumulate grain
opposed to geminy. Yeah, pictures of it. It's pretty neat, right,
(20:28):
And then get this if you were let's say, like um,
Ronald Reagan had told us all this when we were
kids for the people prepare for war, prepare for famine.
It's kind of unsettling when they keep you on your toes. Um.
So there's a lot of it that's like just this
kind of rotting time capsule. Because again, like you said,
(20:48):
it was never used, but then plenty of it has
been used. Yeah, And that that's I couldn't even figure
out for sure. These are definitely parts of that complex
where people are living. Yes, okay, I didn't know if
it was other shelters. It's both, Okay, it's both got
You're right, all right, So what we're talking about or
(21:09):
is the rat tribe or the sho zoo uh. And
it's basically about a million people. They don't know exact numbers,
but about a million people in Beijing have moved underground,
um about a million of the one million people who
lived there. Yeah, and if if you talk about a
population boom in there were about nine million people in Beijing,
(21:31):
now there's twenty one million. UM. That's a lot of
people and not a very long span of time. So uh,
it's expensive to I really don't know that like median
incomes compared to housing. But this article made it seem
like the only reason these people were doing it is
because they can't afford to live above ground, or that
(21:53):
there's just such a shortage, Like your your choice is this.
You can live above ground in a door rom like
room with six to ten people in the suburbs and
pay about what you would pay for your own room
below ground, which is about fifty to seventy American dollars
a month. Right, So you want to go a little
(22:13):
with six to ten people in a dorm mountain suburbs,
or you want your own cozy, little eight ft by
eight foot concrete room underground. A lot of people are
saying I'd rather be underground, and they're normal people, they're
not Um, it's not like a situation like, uh, I'm
trying to think of something comfarable. But this woman interviewed
(22:35):
a lot of these people. Uh and net Kim from
USC southern California. Go Trojans for our friend Brian Bishop.
Oh yeah, congratulations to Brian on the birth of his child.
Yeah that too. So what she found out was that
as she suspected, these are computer programmers and waiters and
(22:57):
waitresses and uh barbaras and they are literally just mainly
migrants that have come there from the countryside to work.
And they're not weirdos. They just they're like, you know,
this is what I can afford. I have a job
above ground, and h this is just what I how
(23:17):
I choose to live because we don't have a lot
of options. So there's like the specter of MAO is
still around because apparently part of the UM the housing
code in China or in Beijing at least, requires that
if you are going to build like a building, you
have to build something between one to three stories of
(23:39):
basement or um bomb shelter below ground. That's still the thing. Yeah,
so um in addition to people squatting in dixia Chang,
which does happen, these people are going to the owners
of the building and saying can I please stay here.
I'll give you seventy bucks a month. Yeah, they like sure,
(24:01):
and even though it's illegal. Yeah, the owners are like, yeah,
just leave it, leave it under the trash can out
front and I'll come find Yeah, like I'm not using
that tiny room, right because these are you know, small spaces.
They're communal toilets uh and showers. You gotta pay like
fifty cents for a shower for five minutes, is that right? Yeah,
(24:22):
I didn't see that. Yeah. There's this um photographer Sim
Chi Yen based in Beijing and he has a collection
called China's Rat Tribe if you want to look at pictures,
and um, you know it's not there's a stigma to it.
First of all, a because it's illegal. They call him
the rat Tribe and be yeah, because you know, they
interviewed some of these people and the guy was like yeah,
(24:44):
my dad was like, son, no, you can't. You can't
live down here. And he's like, Dad, this is what
I can afford. I've got a job and I don't
want to live with ten people in a room and
there's no windows, it's dark. Apparently there's signs in some
of these tunnels. It advised people to go up and
get fun stuff like that. It's thoughtful, sure. Um. I
(25:06):
think one of the other reasons too why they're considered
like the rat tribe is in a lot of the
cases they're living beneath um fairly tony apartment buildings. So
the people above ground there's like a huge class difference
in the same like sprout of of living space in Beijing,
(25:28):
and the people above ground are not in contact with
the people below ground, and they do not trust them.
They're weird, they're different, they're poor, they're from the country. Um,
so they don't they don't communicate with one another, but
they know they're there. So the people above ground are
very suspicious of the people below ground. H Yeah, apparently
mold is a problem, yeah, because it's you know, undergrounds
(25:49):
kind of dank, so they have to work to keep
mold at bay. And I don't think we mentioned that
the original plan too, with Chairman Maus to grow things
like mushrooms, like things that you didn't need the sun
right to grow down there. You know how fast you
wed get sick of eating mushrooms if that's all you
had to eat. If it was me, it would be
(26:10):
one bite of mushroom later you don't like mushrooms, can't
do it? What if you put soy sauce and mayonnaise
on it? I mean I could choke it down. But
it's a texture thing for me. Uh yeah, you know
it's not even the taste. What about uncooked raw It's
almost got like a bit of a crunch to it.
I'll try one. Yeah, yeah, try like a white button mushroom,
(26:34):
little salt like lick at first. Put a little salt
on it. Think a bit. It's not like the mushroom
you're describing that that slimy texture doesn't have that although
wash it off first. Yeah yeah, you give it a
good scrub with your tongue. I'll bring you one. I
don't want to work. Actually, I have one here in
(26:54):
my pocket. I'm good, okay, pocket mushrooms. No you got
anything else? Uh no? Do you know? Oh? I do
have one other thing. Um. So they were a long time.
There were long standing rumors that they had built like
secret tunnels in this underground bunker Dixie chang Um that
(27:15):
connected to like the People's Hall and other government buildings,
and no one knew if it was real or not
until when the ten m and Square uprising happened, and
all of a sudden, all these government troops come out
of nowhere, flooding out of the People's Hall to quell
these protesters. They're like, oh, those underground tunnels really are real. Yeah,
And apparently there's only out of the ninety original entrances.
(27:38):
There's only a handful of those left. Yeah, because the
the the area where this was built beneath is the
called ken Mien I believe for kenyan Um, and it's
a very famous stretch of like shops uh in Beijing,
and it's been just recreated and rebuilt so much, especially
since right before the Olympics that a lot of these
(27:59):
olds are being leveled and there there to go the
entrances to the places and the fluorescent maps. So it
is in danger of being lost, but it'll still be
there for people to go find. Yeah. Go check out
the pictures. Pretty neat. Yeah. Uh. If you want to
know more about Beijing, type that word in the search
part how stuff works dot com see what comes up.
(28:20):
Press your luck. Since I said press your luck, it's
time for listener mail Ah. This was about the mining episode.
So it's been a bit but um, we always like
good information. So here it is. I've been listening to
your show for about a year now, been blissfully enlightened
on so many topics. Currently pursuing my master's degree in
(28:40):
economic geology. Whoa uh in the unlikely state of Iowa,
and I have a few friendly clarifications. On your mining episode,
you mentioned hard and soft rock mining, and we're unsure
of the difference between the two whether it comes for
the rock or the ore. The term soft and hard
rock mining relates to the hardness of the rock from
which the ore is being extracted, not the ore itself,
(29:04):
so that clears that up good. I think that's what
I said. I don't remember, actually, I think I hedged
and said it could be either one, so that was
right right either way. Uh So, soft rock mining typically
pertains to sedimentary rock, where's hard rock typically pertains to
igneous or metamorphic rocks. Furthermore, just finish your wonderful episode
(29:26):
on ice ages and giggled a little from your pronunciation
of Lois. I was always told it was pronounced luss,
and even though Lois is a bit more fun to say,
I just thought i'd let you guys know, keep up
the amazing work. Thanks for making my ears happy. And Megan,
that is exactly how you send in corrections in a
(29:47):
very nice, friendly way, and that's how you get on
the air, right exactly. And we we love our corrections, uh,
and we tend to favor the ones that are hospitable
because it's just nice in life, right. Thanks Megan, Thank
you for the demonstration. Top notch. If you want to
get in touch with us too, uh and possibly get
complimented by Chuck, you can tweet to us at s
(30:09):
Y s K podcast or josh um Clark. You can
hang out with us on Facebook at Charles W. Chuck
Bryant or Stuff you Should Know. You can send us
an email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot
com and has always joined us out at home on
the web. Stuff you Should Know dot com for more
(30:30):
on this and thousands of other topics. Does it how
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