February 1, 2025 • 45 mins
It was only in the last few decades that science became aware that itches aren't just low-level pain. And in that time, the mystery of how we itch and why we scratch has gotten even more baffling. Explore the mystery with Josh and Chuck in this classic episode.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, everybody, Chuck here, it's May ninth, twenty seventeen, and
podcast time. I know it's really twenty twenty five, but
we're going all the way back to May of twenty
seventeen to talk about itching. Oh boy, just seeing that
title probably makes you itch, and that's one of the
deals with itching, if I remember correctly. So I hope
you dig it, and I hope you're not too itchy
(00:22):
right now.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's
Charles W Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry Rowland. So this
is Stuff you Should Know Scratching Edition.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yeah, this is one of many.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
You remember when we did Yawning. Yeah, well, that's the
only one I can think of where just researching something
makes you do the thing researching. This definitely happened with
this one.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah. Well we ran across that and poison ivy and
scabies for sure, Oh yeah, and talked about some of
this stuff, but I think itch, we had an itch
we needed to scratch. Yeah, with this particular topic.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Well, I'm glad. I've been wanting to do this one
for a while.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, you did a video about this, right, Yes, a
short video.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
No, it was three four hours long. Okay, if I
remember correctly, Does.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
That mean we have to do this? Do I have
to be here for the next four hours?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, we have to just play the whole thing and
then we'll talk about it for an hour.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
And it was good.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Okay. I think it was a brain stuff video, wasn't it. Yeah?
I watched did it scratch your itch?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah? I watched it yesterday.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Oh okay, nice work, thank you very much. You're just
like now we finally arrived and what I was after compliment.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah, no, it was great, thanks man.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
So I guess the point of all that is to say,
you guys are going you're going right, my videos are
the best that you're going to scratch, You're going to
feel an itch, which is one of the great mysteries
of itches. It turns out we only very very recently
have started to get a handle on what itches are. Yeah,
(02:14):
and there's still plenty of mysteries left to it, like,
for example, it's bizarre and there's really no evolutionary reason
as far as anyone can tell why. Just hearing about
itches or seeing someone else scratch can make you itch. Right,
That's that's odd. That's that's weird.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
We're seeing the video of an ant crawling up. Yeah,
an arm will make you itch.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
It will. But I mean think about it. If somebody
is sitting there, you see a video of some schmo
who's got his hand like near an oven, and he
pulls it away really quick. It doesn't hurt your hand,
It doesn't make you feel like your hand is burned.
This doesn't happen.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I don't even think that would excite mirror Neron's like
a leg break with Now.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
You're just like, what a stupid idiot, that's what it excites. Yeah,
I hope that guy's hands just burns clean off. That's
what I think, right right.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, uh, you sourced a couple of well we've had
our own article on how stuffworks dot com. Yeah, but
you also sent this great New Yorker article written by
doctor A.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Tool Gowande, one of the best names in writing today.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah, that may be my new hotel name.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Well, you may be thronged by science right science fans,
because that guy's pretty pretty well known.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Actually, I've never used to alias at a hotel. That's dumb,
and I don't even know if you can, can you,
I guess if you're a big shot you can.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah, but you have to be like, I'm not Brad
Pitt on a tool Goanda, right.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
H But the we'll get to some of the more
interesting aspects of that article later, specifically a very specific
patient that's quite distressing.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
So calm down for now, a tool's mom. But we'll
get to it eventually.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
He did include a couple of neat historical tidbits, like
in sixteen sixty there was in Germans are all over
this thing for some reason. Yeah, you know, researchers that
they're they're all German.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
They had the itch to explain the itch.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I guess, so yeah, the itch.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
But there was a physician in sixteen sixty name Samuel Hoffenreffer.
Actually that's my new hotel name. Yeah, that's a good one.
Uh he kind of well, he defined it by saying,
an itch is an unpleasant sensation that provokes the desire
to scratch. Pretty simple, yeah, but right on the money
(04:36):
it is.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
And actually it's so it's so on the money that
anywhere you look in the medical literature, whenever they define
itch word for word, that's the definition they use. Yeah,
although poor Hoff and Refer doesn't get credit for it
all the time. But that's the one. The only expansion
of that that I've seen is that can occur anywhere
on the body, which apparently is true.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I think hoff and Reffer he felt that was implied.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Right, And it's like it goes without saying. Yeah, I
mean I'm scratching right now.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah. I don't know if I just noticed more, because
as I was doing it, I was thinking, well, now
I'm scratching. I thought, do I always scratch this much
or itch this much?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Oh? I hadn't thought about that. I'm pretty sure that
I was. I don't think I scratched as much as
I don't know. Do you raise a really good question.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Maybe we can get an intern to follow us around
just record our scratching, right.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
I'm surprised that that's not already a TV show. Frankly,
Josh and Chuck scratch just being followed around.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah, oh, you know, no one wants to see that.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Well, that's probably why it's not you're scratching. See, that's
what I'm saying. I don't think I scratched this much.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I don't notice it all right, Moving on to Dante's Inferno.
It was in Dante's Inferno, the burning age of fierce
itching that nothing could relieve is how falsifiers were punished.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, do you know what a falsifier is?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Us?
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I no, really, Like, isn't that that somebody who like
bears false witness or somebody who falsifies a document or.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Is it just a fancy name for liar?
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Oh? I thought you were gonna tell me you were
just wondering.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yeah, I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
All right, Well, I don't know what Dante meant, but
they're they're bad people.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Sure, apparently there's a special place in health for him literally,
well I guess actually not literally figuratively sure, literally.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Oh very nice. So itching scientifically is known as pururitis
p r U R I T I S. Yeah, it's
one of those tough to pronounce things for me at least,
and for well. Actually, they still believe that the evolution
of the itch was to help humans survive, basically because
(07:00):
so many things that can kill you and nature or
things like mosquitoes or flies or spiders or fleas. Yeah,
that can have like malaria or the plague or any
number of diseases attached to their tiny little insect bodies. Right. So, hey, human,
you've got a mosquito on your neck that could kill you.
(07:21):
You might want to slap it or scratch.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah, And that's still, as far as I know, the
evolutionary hypothesis for why we experience itching. Yeah, and it's
not just us either.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Well you're scratching like crazy.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Yeah, it's found throughout the animal kingdom, from us to
apparently fish have shown scratching behavior. Yeah, that's crazy fruit flies.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
How's a fish scratch? You might ask?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
It rubs up against rocks.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yeah, it's kind of cute.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
It is a little cute.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
It's like I remember my dad did like the uh
who was the Barren Jungle book? Was that blue?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
He would do the ballue or he would get up
against a tree or yeah, and then I did it
probably because of that. I'm sure that's where I got
it and realized that it works. And I still do
it every now and then. Oh yeah, yeah, it look
kind of silly. But do you sing while you do it? Yeah?
Bare necessities, that's still my favorite.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
What else are you going to sing? Like Mambo number five?
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I'm gonna start doing that. Actually, you'd be like, think
something's wrong with Chuck.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
So, like you said, though, it was up until almost
well was it nineteen eighty seven, the mid to late eighties. Yeah,
that another German h O handworker and his gang, sure
of toughs. They started to do actual like research about it.
(08:48):
They were puzzled and wanted to solve.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
It, right, because up to this point, up to actually
nineteen eighty seven, everyone thought that an itch was just
a low grade pain stimulus.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, I guess happy with that.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
That's just what they thought it was. And hand worker said,
you know what, let's let's find out if this is
actually true. I'm tired of sitting around just assuming this
is fine. I'm a hand worker. And he got to
work her with his hands, testing this, right, So what
he knows, like Jonathan Strickland level, what he did was
(09:26):
this is just awful. He introduced using like electrical stimulation.
I guess he introduced histamine to skin cells, right. And
histamine is a natural I don't know if it's a protein,
but it's it's a natural, natural chemical, right that the
body releases in response to certain stimuli, say, for example,
(09:47):
like a mosquito bite or something. And it triggers the
inflammation and immune response in that area. Right, So histamine
is associated with itch and it had been for a
very long time. So this I was using an electrical
stimulation to introduce histamine and increasing amounts in these poor
(10:08):
study participants, and it went from barely noticeable to this
is a quote, the maximum imaginable itch. And they never
felt paint.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, like even though they ramped it up to eleven,
no one ever said like, holy crap, that hurts.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
They said, please, please, fore love God stop, let me
out of this. And hand Wurker just cackled and cackled, right,
and these men with like black leather gloves were holding
the participants down.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah, they said, this is not worth the five Deutsche
marks that I'm getting for this lousy study.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah, that's nice man, that's this would have been pre
euro I think, oh yeah, even though the EU was around,
I don't think the euro was around in eighty seven
right now, No, no, because the nineties I traveled.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I traveled to Europe in nineteen ninety seven and there
was I was still on all that weird money.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Oh okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
So it was a while after that. So now scientists,
I think this sort of introduced an itch to the
scientific community because after hundreds and hundreds of years, Hanvoka
sort of disrupted the thought process of the itch and
the scratch, and all of a sudden, scientists were like, oh, well,
(11:25):
maybe we should start looking into this, Maybe we can
actually isolate the nerve and figure this thing out.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Yeah, because I mean if it's not, if it's not
just a low level pain sensation, then that means it's
its own thing. And if it's its own thing, it
probably has its own system and we need to know
more about it. So they they got to study in it.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah what ma I wonder if all of this was
under the notion that they were trying to cure itching.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
I don't know, because from what I was reading and
all of this was pretty recent stuff. Yeah, there's a
real un medical need in dealing and addressing like chronic itch. Sure,
because you know, most people who go through life just
experiencing itch under normal circumstances. Right, Let's say you or me,
we're like an itch. Yeah, they suck for a second
(12:13):
and then it goes away. Imagine it not going away ever,
whether you're asleep or awake, or swimming or an outer
space or doing whatever you're itching constantly. Supposedly it has
as much of a pronounced effect on a patient's life
as chronic pain does. It's constant, persistent, and agonizing, and
(12:37):
it's not being met or treated because it's not understood.
So they're just now starting to get into pain or
itch research. I saw somebody put it where pain research
was about twenty years ago, So it's starting to really
heat up, but we're still just starting to understand it.
So I would think that they weren't looking to cure it.
(12:57):
I think it was just pointed out that there was
a whole branch of neuroscience that was right totally not understood,
So get to work neurologists.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
I wonder I never really thought about it until just now,
But I wonder what happens when a performer or somebody
like that is in the public eye or on TV
or on stage or like the president giving an address,
Like what what what did they do if they have
poison ivy or some other kind of contact dermatitis? Like
(13:28):
have you ever thought about that? Like what if Lynn
Mail went Manuel Miranda has like a really bad case
of POY. I guess they can get an understudy in
that case, sure, but you can't have an understudy as
president no, which is too bad.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
You just go out there with your hands bandaged up,
just holding them up, like how do you fight that
poison ivy on camera?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Or like a news anchor when they're just like, oh
my god, I'm dying. I don't know. I guess a
news anchor can tape things, but I'm talking about live.
What does Tom Petty do?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
For God's sakes, Tom Petty and bears it. He had
a hard scrubble childhood prepared him for that.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I'm going to see him tomorrow night. Oh yeah, waiting
for coffee. He's not performing anyway. I was just curious
about that.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Well, it's a good question.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Thanks.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Do you remember when Costas had red eye at the Olympics.
I was so dedicated to being the commentator, the anchor
for the Olympics. They finally were like, you have to stop. Yeah,
no one can look.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
At you, people writing and you're disgusting them. One thing
that made me think of that is I had recently.
You can still kind of see it on my forearm,
the scars. But I did a cement job. I was
building this fence, putting in a gate at my house
and Scotty, you know, Scotty and I built huh, Scotty Pippin.
(14:51):
He and I built this thing together. And we sank
these huge posts for this gate. And I didn't know
that cement could cause contact dermatitis or even burns. Never
knew this. Yeah, and we were it was kind of
a tight spot and we couldn't get shovels in there
in the hole, so we were literally mixing the stuff
(15:12):
like up to our elbows with our arms, and I
was like, this kind of feels good. I even said, like,
you know, like oatmeal or something. And then two days
later my right arm was just covered in the nastiest
dermatitis I've ever seen, and then he got it. Yeah,
it's still like kind of hanging around. So I went
and got a prescription for steroids, which made me a
(15:33):
little crazy for a week and a half.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
You trashed the gate and have to start over.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
No, I think I was probably not the best husband
though over that time period. Judging from Emily saying, hey,
you're real a hole. Get off the steroids, gotcha, get
off the juice, I was like, shut up, watch me
hit this homer. So long story short, I experienced this
(16:00):
and it was awful. And I can't imagine like shooting
the TV show or something, or like doing anything or
performing live, like I would have to address it because
I would scratch and smack. It was what I usually do.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
That's how you're supposed to do, not scratch. I guess
we'll just cut to the chase here. This is why
everyone's listening. How do you scratch a niche? Correctly? You
rub it?
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah? I didn't do I did you know?
Speaker 3 (16:24):
It?
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Really did? It was the we have a handheld implement
in the shower along with the regular shower head and
put that sucker on the tightest, hardest, most penetrating flow
and just put that hot water on it. Man, And
that was like, I think I spent half my days
in the shower over that week and a half.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Are you biting down like a broomstick while you're doing that?
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Now? It felt so good, man. I was just like
I couldn't get enough of it.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
And then the court zone and all that jump too.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
So we'll we'll talk about this because this you're raising
some great points here.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Well I just kind of ruined the spoiler.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
No, No, this is good stuff. We're going to analyze
what was going on with your arm after this break?
Speaker 2 (17:09):
How about that sounds good?
Speaker 3 (17:18):
So, Chuck, you had contact dermatitis.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Right, I thought it was poison ivy because that area
has some poison ivy.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
But each of us, Scotty and I had it just
on the arm that we sunk in cement, right, And
then we researched and found out that could happen.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Yeah, so Lesson learned on that.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
So what happened was you like something in the cement
and I'm not sure what it was reacted chemically with
the mast cells in your skin. Yeah, and histamine was released,
right apparently, And so the histamine sent a signal through
specialized nerve cells called sea fibers.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, which sea fibers aren't just limited to itching. I
think only about five percent handle that, and right, most
of the rest are for pain.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Right, right, So they use the same type of neural
pathway as pain, but for itch it's it's basically it's
just like, no, these these are just for itches only. Yeah,
And it sent a signal through your spinal column, and
in your spinal column, it released a neurotransmitter called gastrin,
(18:40):
releasing peptide receptor, and so at the skin, the histamine
would have released a neurotransmitter called.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
What natur uretic polypeptide B.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Okay, So that says itch signal coming your way along
those sea fibers, yes, okay, uh, it makes it to
the spinal column, and I guess in about two and
seven they found that there's another neurotransmitter in the spine
that I guess accepts the the NPPB the invitation and
says I'm going to transfer this along up to the brain.
(19:13):
That's gastrin releasing peptide receptor that shoots up to the
brain and it starts this cascade of activity. Right Because
when they, like after handworker said, hey, you know, itching
is its own thing. These other researchers went to town
and traced and figured out that there were specific, specific
(19:33):
types of itch receptors that were dedicated just to itches.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Right, more Germans, more Germans, a couple.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Of Swedes, but mostly Germans for good measure. Yeah, And
what they found eventually from tracing this pathway, they were
able to follow it into the wonder machine and apparently
they made some people itch and would not let them
scratch it. And then They had them lay down in
an MRI and they took a brain scan and they
found that there's this whole galaxy of stuff going on
(20:02):
in your brain that combined is the itch sensation.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah. It was pretty interesting too. There's a signature pattern
in the brain when you get an itch, and a
few specific areas light up. One is a cortex, and
it all makes sense when you put it together. The
cortex in this case just sort of geo locates where
on your body you're getting that sensation, so that helps.
(20:28):
It's like left elbow, yeah, or in my case, from
right elbow to wrist, right, and then a little bit
in other places, but not too bad that that was
the main area.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Is this your cortex still saying this, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
It's very complex conversation going on. And then the region
I thought this was interesting, the region that government's governments
that governs emotional response. So basically, this is your brain
saying like, I don't like this, this makes me feel bad.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Yeah, it's the worst thing ever do something.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
And then finally in the limbic and motor areas, and
I thought this was the most interesting. Those areas process
irresistible urges, the same ones that say I want to
smoke crack or I want to eat too much cake,
says you have an itch that is unbearable and you
need to scratch it.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Right, and maybe go smoke some crack and eat some
cake while you're at.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
It because that'll help. So I just I don't know.
I thought that was all very super interesting when you
combine that pattern.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah, that's the that's an itch, and then then followed
by the irresistible urge to scratch it, which apparently research
has shown those two do not happen independently. They're they're
part of a cycle. Yes, there's something called the itch
scratch cycle, right, and so you have an irresistible urge
to scratch the itch. It's it's weird if you think
(21:49):
about it. Like, on the one hand, it makes sense
where you you sense that there's a really hot heat
source that your hand is really close to, so you
have an irresistible urge to pull it back, but it
doesn't feel like an urge. It almost feels like an
involuntary reflex. Yeah, scratch is almost like I'm going to
(22:12):
kill this itch. I can't wait to scratch it, Like
you're almost exacting revenge on the itch for itching you, right,
So it scratches. It's an irresistible urge where it's like
pulling your hand back from a hot hot source or something,
is like an involuntary reflex. It just feels different, like
a scratches its own thing.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Well it is, you know. They kind of found that
out and go on day. Doctor Gowande pointed out something
interesting too that I never thought about, is that you
can have like that short collar rubs against your neck
all day and you might never notice it. But if
there's like one little string that's just poking one little area,
that might trigger an itch.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Right, and so you would think that, you know, its
receptors are super finely tuned, and they covered just this
one tiny like that's what it would say micron of
skin as a matter of fact. No, apparently an itch
receptor can sense itch stimuli like three inches away from it.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Yeah, So they're really sensitive.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, whereas pain receptors are that specific down to like
you know, millimeters.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
And the other thing they found out too is that
not only can they sense it from a few inches away,
but it's a very slow acting thing, which as opposed
to like heat on the hand, like a candle on
your hand almost said candle in the wind. Uh, that's
super fast. But that that explains why an itch like
(23:39):
it's kind of slow to come and then slow to
resolve by scratching. Yeah, it's not like you scratch it,
you're like, oh, it's all better now. Yeah, it helps
a little bit.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
So, so the itching is a it's a good strategy.
If you think about, say you're you're there's a mosquito
on you and that's what's making you itch. When you
go to scratch it, you're getting rid of the mosquito,
maybe even smushed it or something like that. The problems
taken care of the issue is is that that itch
scratch cycle eventually becomes a vicious cycle because when you scratch,
(24:12):
this is what they think is going on. This is
another mystery with itches. We don't understand how scratching alleviates
an itch, right, or why we scratch really right? What
they think the current hypothesis is that when you scratch
an itch, you're stimulating other receptors in the area that
(24:32):
aren't itch receptors.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yeah, so I got that, but what does that do
to sort of like say, hey, body, don't worry about
that for a minute, I think. So a pain receptor
is now.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Active, right exactly, it's sending feedback to the brain saying
it's being taken care of. You can settle down with
the itch, gotcha, right. I think the problem is that
neurologically or neurochemically, when you scratch an itch, you're activating
those pain receptors in the area pain pressure, that kind
of thing. You're causing serotonin to be released, right, natural
(25:05):
pain reliever, right, yeah, or at least mood enhancer. And
what they found is that serotonin, among other neurochemicals, actually
exacerbates the itch sensation. So your itch not only comes back,
it gets worse. So you go to scratch it again,
and then the same thing happens over and over again.
That's the itch scratch cycle, which it's not the best
(25:25):
cycle around. No, you can make a better cycles.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Not a bad band name. Yeah, it's okay, a little
too cute.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Maybe progue folk progue.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
They well, they'd have to be German probably.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
German folk progue. Okay.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Another interesting thing they learned too, is that I guess
we're kind of jumping around, but who cares. Right, if
you scratch, you don't have to scratch the point of
the itch to relieve it, apparently, right, Like if you
have had that itch on my right forearm and I
could scratch, maybe then you have to be the left forearm,
(26:03):
so it's not like you have to mirror it. But
I could scratch like my neck and apparently that might
help relieve it.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Yeah. I tried it. It didn't work for me. No, No,
But I think the reason why there's that's it's possible
that it could have that effect is supposedly scratching also
activates like your pleasure center.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, you bet it does.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
But there's different different places where you're scratching on your
body have different amounts of pleasure associated with them. Did
you know that? I mean, I guess, I guess so.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
But yeah, interesting, Yeah, but I mean think about it.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
It's like if you scratch your scratch your like your clavicle,
who cares, it's nothing, right, But then you scratch like
your head right above and behind your ear, it's great.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Well, and they I think they did find that, like
you're back in your ankles supposedly or some of the
most rewarding places to scratch exactly. And I I don't know,
I've never really thought about the ankles. But my mom
would give me backscratches when I was a kid. That's nice,
and it was always like one of my favorite things ever. Sure,
(27:14):
and so I don't get those anymore now that I'm
a grown up because that's gross. You know, my mom
scratched my back, right, I'm forty six years old, lay down,
But yeah, it was like I think I preferred to
backscratch to a back rub even oh yeah, when I
was younger. But now, you know, massage is probably way better. Sure,
(27:36):
but if they if a massuse could include a little
backscratch in there, yeah, get ready for a huge tip
for me. Yeah, I guess, or does that? What is
that sexual? I think it.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Crosses a line once they're potentially clawing away skin cells.
I think that's longer in the massuse range or massuur range.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, I get that. Once skin cells are involved, you know,
under the nails, then your murder suspect, right, exactly? All right, Well,
should we take another break and talk a little bit
about one of the most distressing articles I've ever read?
(28:32):
All right, so we've referenced this article from The New
Yorker from doctor utsul Goande and he talked a lot
about itching and just had good information on the science
of it all.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Well that's what he does.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
But most of the article was focused on a patient,
a woman in Massachusetts that they named EM for the
article just M the letter M. In other words, you know,
she's anonymous, And I think she was anonymous because she
kind of had a rough go after her divorce. She
(29:06):
ended up getting HIV from getting on heroin kind of
spun out, it seems like, but then got her life
back by all accounts, but ended up getting shingles as
a result of HIV complications, and the shingles went away,
but the itching did not, to say the least.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Yeah, I think the itching came after the shingles, even
And at first her her physicians were like, well, I
mean you must have it damaged some nerves in there.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
So.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Ts for you, I guess yeah. And then eventually after
treating it like all these different ways and it's still
being scratching, they said, Okay, you're crazy. How about that, right,
And she said, well, whatever, I still have this itch.
Do whatever you need to to treat it because I'm
literally scratching the itch in my sleep. It was on
(30:01):
her scalp wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Yeah, it was on her head and she she kind
of managed to control it during the day, but like
you said, at night, she couldn't control it to the
point where I think she was like restrained in her sleep.
That came after, Oh okay, after they realized it's a
problem because your brain is using out of your head.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Can you believe that she scratched her scalp so much
that she scratched through her skull. And she went into
her doctor one day and said, they've got like this
green fluid coming down. And then apparently the doctor the
doctor didn't even say anything, he was just she or
she was like, excuse me, went and called an ambulance
and came back and said please lay down and don't
(30:42):
talk or move or do anything else. And they finally
told her after she was at the er, you scratched
through to your brain, Like that's your brain you're touching
right now.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
The doctor's like, very interesting, just give me a second
here her, Oh my god. Well, they gathered up all
the other doctors and nurses. Sure, yeah, you got to
come see this.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
She said. Also in this article, she said that she
had a what do they call a roommate and okay,
a roommate, So she had a roommate while she was like,
they treated it, gave her a skin graft, and then
she she she scratched away the skin graft, and then
(31:29):
they finally were like, okay, you're going to an asylum.
And she's like, do they even call it that anymore?
And they're like, just shut up, and they put her
in this asylum and restrained her, like you said, while
she was sleeping, and she had a roommate in there.
She said in the article she she heard didn't survive.
He had scratched through his carotid artery and died bled death.
(31:50):
So they never really got to the bottom of this.
She finally got a doctor. Like the doctors are like,
it's something that had to do with the s this
is what we think happens. That are doctors that the
the nerve endings around the area where she had shingles
were so devastated by the shingles that there were just
(32:11):
a couple of nerve endings left and it just so
happened that they were itch receptors. It yeah, itch receptors,
and that those were like really exacerbated by the fact
that there was no other competing sensations. Ipso facto, there's
your problem, right, So they said, well, we'll just cut
the main nerve to your face and that should solve
(32:33):
the problem. They cut the main nerve to her face
and she said yeah, and then the itch came back
and she's like, you have to be kidding me. So
finally she met a doctor who said, I don't think
it's your your receptors or the nerve transmission. I think
it's your brain, not psychologically. I don't think it's a psychosis.
(32:53):
I think there's that the actual itch signal and your
brain is being set off without any stimulation or transmission
going on. Yeah, and apparently she was right, but then
they were like, good luck treating that right.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
You know. I didn't see much follow up on this.
I did read one article that a follow up with
doctor Gowande because there were a lot of skeptics after
that article came out that said it's impossible with your
fingernail because she said she didn't use an implement. It's
not like she got out of metal file to scratch
through your skull. And he said that his theory was
that bacteria it became infected had eaten it away such
(33:30):
that the skull became soft. Yeah. And then people also said,
and you know, you don't have men and women in
the same room in hospitals or asylums. That's that's false.
And he said that it was like the room next
door and quit being pedantic. Yeah, really, man, I think
people just didn't believe it. So all these folks rode
(33:51):
into the New Yorker. So those coastal elites said, no way,
They said.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
A tool, A tool, come on. So the idea though
that even if this woman was hypothetical, I think tool
Gwande is pretty upstanding cat and didn't make this up.
But even if say she was hypothetical, her problem. What
the doctors initially thought it was was that she had
(34:16):
a neuropathic itch, type of chronic itch. But then the
doctor who apparently figured it all out, said no, no, no,
it's a neurogenic itch, another type of chronic itch, and
it has to do with whether it's the brain going
off or the nerve transmissions going off. Either way, you
don't actually have an itch, although you're experiencing the itch
(34:39):
sensation well.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
And they also then said at some point she had
a psychogenic itch, right, So they basically covered three out
of the four kinds of itches, the last one being
man such a hard time per ireceptive and that's what
you get from like a mosquito bite, yeah, or if
you have a skin disorder like exma or something. Sure,
So they basically ruled out the most common one and
(35:01):
at various stages said, now you've got this other.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
One right for the other three, right, finally, and then
again they said, we don't. There's really nothing we can
do to treat it. The one that they've got down
pretty well is per receptive. We've got all sorts of
stuff to treat that because that's that's basically histamine is
being released and your your skin is itching. So you
can treat histamines with antihistamines. Yeah, you can reduce that
(35:24):
response and then your itch will go away.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Well, I took benadrill at night, and they also make
this benadrill spray, a topical spray that just it really helps. Right,
So between that and cortizone and then the benadrill at night,
I did okay, right, and those awesome showers.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
So the like the pre receptive itch, we've got treatment
for basically, Yeah, the other three you're you're in trouble.
It turns out, as far as it stands right now,
maybe five or ten years from now there'll be something.
Apparently there is a lot of movement right now on
treating this stuff, but it's like they're having to figure
(36:03):
out how to block some really otherwise important chemicals in
the body, like that NPPB, Right.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, that one? What does It can help regulate your
blood pressure as well, right, So they can't switch that off?
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Right? Yeah, just turn off the gene that produces that.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
You won't itch, but you might die early, right, not
worth it? Right? The one that really, I mean, they're
all sad, but the psychogenic when you have a mental
illness where you feel like parasites and bugs on your skin.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Remember our Morglon's disease? Yeah, how did you said it?
More gallons? Right? And I said Morgalons.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I can't remember. I know that I said it the
way everyone else El says it, though, That's all.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
I remember, Morgalons, that's right, That's how I said it.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Man. But all this stuff, it just had so much
empathy for m Yeah, and wanted to follow up so
bad to see how she was doing, you know. Yeah,
she kept scratching holes in her skull.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
I don't know, geez. So there's I read another article
called Accidental Therapists. It's by a guy named Eric Brudman,
and it was published on a website called stat and
it's all about delusional para parasitosis but how it's treated
sometimes by entomologists, you know, like those extension services at
(37:27):
universities here in the US, like state universities have what
it called extension services, where like a scientist will basically
be there for the public to come talk to about whatever.
Usually it's like household stuff, for farm stuff, something like that.
And apparently entomologists frequently are approached with people who are like,
(37:48):
I've got these bugs like crawling all over me. Here's
the sample of them. And it turns out it's like
carpet fiber or something like that, and these people just
can't stop itching or whatever. But it turns out they
have a delusion, they don't actually have parasites. My question is,
is that our understanding of it now and in five
or ten years, we're going to know that they had
neurogenic itches and we just treated them like they were
(38:09):
crazy even though they weren't.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Yeah, and it's going.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
To be like a real blemish on the history of
neuroscience maybe, or will this idea of psychogenic itches? You know?
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Hold up, Yeah, I wonder did you ever see the
Todd Haynes movie Safe with Julianne Moore. No, it was
one of his first movies after the Karen Carpenter thing
he did. That wasn't like I mean, it was a
real movie, but it wasn't released. But Safe was very disturbing.
It was about a woman who kind of slowly drifted
into madness from believing that the world was poisoning her wow,
(38:45):
and like household chemicals and everything, And it kind of
started slow and eventually she ended up at this kind
of safe camp for people like her. Right, very distressing movie,
and some one of her first movies too.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
I'll have to check it out.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Yeah, it's really good.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Oh it's old.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah it was. It was early nineties. I think I
know you're talking about. No, it's called the Road to Wellville.
Is that what you mean? No, it's called Safe.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Okay, I'll check it out.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah, it's good and very distressing.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
I'm trying to think of anything.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
And that wasn't necessarily itching, but it was just like
that psychogenic thing of like, I think everything in my
house is killing me. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
I mean, have you ever like stopped and thought about
something and thought, there's there's the path to madness right there.
I'm staring down it right now. I should probably not
keep thinking about this.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
I don't really get like that. Oh no, no, I'm
very easily kind of led onto the next shiny thing.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
I guess, oh like a bird.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Yeah. Yeah, basically that's probably for the best it is.
It has its drawbacks, though, Uh, what else you got? Well,
one thing it says in here is that having someone
else scratch your itch does apparently does not do the trick.
So you have to scratch your own itch.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
Yeah, I mean somebody can like obviously, like you know,
if you're like a little left a little left up
up up. Yeah, see, I can't work.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
I agree with that. Oh man, not you them saying,
oh right, like, I think it definitely helps.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
I think what they're saying is that it doesn't have
quite the same relieving properties as if you do it yourself.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Oh yeah, and if you could reach that area of
your back, it would be better than that. Yeah, I guess,
so I got a pretty good backscratcher.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Now though, Oh yeah, what's it made of bamboo?
Speaker 1 (40:28):
No, it's it's metal, but it's telescoping, so it's not
you know, two feet long, but it can be.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
But it's metal.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Yeah, it looks like a like what are the bear claw?
Not the pastry, but a real bear claw which actually
looks like the pastry. Yeah, I guess that's why they
call it that. I never thought about that. Why do
you think that was called that? I actually call it
a bear paw. It looks more like a bear pa.
I'm trying and bring that, bring that around.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Unless you get somebody like really the extra mile and
puts almonds on the tips to make it look like
the claw.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Yes, and not just haphazardly scattered about the bare paw exactly.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Yeah, that's the difference between a baker who loves their
job the one who's just in it for the money.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
A couple more things, Charles. Like we said, there's still
plenty of mysteries around itches. Yeah, why say, does a
feather tickle sometimes but itch other times? Big question? They
don't know, right, but I'd like to know.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Well, maybe the Germans will get active on this again. Yeah,
they're the only ones who can solve it.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
Only the Germans can save us. You got anything else?
Speaker 1 (41:45):
No, I don't. I don't either. Itching.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Nice work, thanks man, same to you, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
And you haven't scratched in a while, so.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
No, I'm actually I've been scratching the same spot and
it's starting to get a little tender stopping. Man.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
There's nothing worse in a movie, and I've seen it.
I feel like I've seen this a few times in
movies where someone is compulsively like scratching until it becomes
a sore, and then they're scratching it. It's just like
ugh through their brain.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
Well, yeah, so I guess the moral of this one
is what would Tom Petty do? I'll ask him tomorrow.
If you want to know more about itching or what
Tom Petty would do, you can type those words in
the search bart howstufforks dot com. And since I said
search bar, it's time for listener mail.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
I'm gonna call this one of the many emails we
got on the swearing episode. Do you notice that people
really seem to like that one? Yeah, they did a
lot of response from mostly from fellow potty mouths, which
were very filthy emails too, which were great, and I
responded in turn by cursing at them. Sure replies, which
(43:01):
I hope they enjoyed in all caps, No, I didn't
want to be too aggressive. So this is from Emily Allen. Hey, guys,
longtime listener, first time writing in writing about swearing. I
should start by saying that it's funny I'm writing about
this episode because I almost never curse, and when I do,
it's normally not a very offensive swear. However, your intro
(43:22):
made me think of something interesting I wanted to share.
You talked about how you really censor yourself during recording
in or to keep your show family friendly. It got
me thinking about how our jobs really shape our vocabulary,
how we express ourselves. I noticed a major change in
the way I speak since becoming a teacher, primarily teach
kindergarten to second grade students, and I found this really
change the way I express myself. For example, I try
(43:44):
to avoid even saying things are dumb or stupid around kids.
We'll often say, well, isn't that silly? Instead. This works
in the classroom, but I often get laughs from friends
and family when I refer to a situations silly, like
a disagreement with a colleague or something a politician does.
There are other expressions I use with kids that often
(44:06):
slip into regular conversation as well. The most embarrassing when
I'm out and excuse myself to go potty. That always
gets a laugh. Anyway, just want to share and thank
you for all the great work you do. Learn so
much from listening each week and I'm always excited to
see the new episode offerings every Tuesday and Thursday. That
is from Emily Alan. Thank you, Miss Allen, very silly.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
That was a very nice email. Yeah, if you want
to get in touch with us, like miss Allen did,
you can send us an email and stuff podcast at
houstuffworks dot com and has always joined us at our
home on the web. Stuff you Should Know dot com.
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
For more podcasts my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows
Hi, everybody, Chuck here, it's May ninth, twenty seventeen, and
podcast time. I know it's really twenty twenty five, but
we're going all the way back to May of twenty
seventeen to talk about itching. Oh boy, just seeing that
title probably makes you itch, and that's one of the
deals with itching, if I remember correctly. So I hope
you dig it, and I hope you're not too itchy
(00:22):
right now.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's
Charles W Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry Rowland. So this
is Stuff you Should Know Scratching Edition.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Yeah, this is one of many.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
You remember when we did Yawning. Yeah, well, that's the
only one I can think of where just researching something
makes you do the thing researching. This definitely happened with
this one.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah. Well we ran across that and poison ivy and
scabies for sure, Oh yeah, and talked about some of
this stuff, but I think itch, we had an itch
we needed to scratch. Yeah, with this particular topic.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Well, I'm glad. I've been wanting to do this one
for a while.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, you did a video about this, right, Yes, a
short video.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
No, it was three four hours long. Okay, if I
remember correctly, Does.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
That mean we have to do this? Do I have
to be here for the next four hours?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, we have to just play the whole thing and
then we'll talk about it for an hour.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
And it was good.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Okay. I think it was a brain stuff video, wasn't it. Yeah?
I watched did it scratch your itch?
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah? I watched it yesterday.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Oh okay, nice work, thank you very much. You're just
like now we finally arrived and what I was after compliment.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah, no, it was great, thanks man.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
So I guess the point of all that is to say,
you guys are going you're going right, my videos are
the best that you're going to scratch, You're going to
feel an itch, which is one of the great mysteries
of itches. It turns out we only very very recently
have started to get a handle on what itches are. Yeah,
(02:14):
and there's still plenty of mysteries left to it, like,
for example, it's bizarre and there's really no evolutionary reason
as far as anyone can tell why. Just hearing about
itches or seeing someone else scratch can make you itch. Right,
That's that's odd. That's that's weird.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
We're seeing the video of an ant crawling up. Yeah,
an arm will make you itch.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
It will. But I mean think about it. If somebody
is sitting there, you see a video of some schmo
who's got his hand like near an oven, and he
pulls it away really quick. It doesn't hurt your hand,
It doesn't make you feel like your hand is burned.
This doesn't happen.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
I don't even think that would excite mirror Neron's like
a leg break with Now.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
You're just like, what a stupid idiot, that's what it excites. Yeah,
I hope that guy's hands just burns clean off. That's
what I think, right right.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, uh, you sourced a couple of well we've had
our own article on how stuffworks dot com. Yeah, but
you also sent this great New Yorker article written by
doctor A.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Tool Gowande, one of the best names in writing today.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah, that may be my new hotel name.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Well, you may be thronged by science right science fans,
because that guy's pretty pretty well known.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Actually, I've never used to alias at a hotel. That's dumb,
and I don't even know if you can, can you,
I guess if you're a big shot you can.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah, but you have to be like, I'm not Brad
Pitt on a tool Goanda, right.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
H But the we'll get to some of the more
interesting aspects of that article later, specifically a very specific
patient that's quite distressing.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
So calm down for now, a tool's mom. But we'll
get to it eventually.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
He did include a couple of neat historical tidbits, like
in sixteen sixty there was in Germans are all over
this thing for some reason. Yeah, you know, researchers that
they're they're all German.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
They had the itch to explain the itch.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I guess, so yeah, the itch.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
But there was a physician in sixteen sixty name Samuel Hoffenreffer.
Actually that's my new hotel name. Yeah, that's a good one.
Uh he kind of well, he defined it by saying,
an itch is an unpleasant sensation that provokes the desire
to scratch. Pretty simple, yeah, but right on the money
(04:36):
it is.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
And actually it's so it's so on the money that
anywhere you look in the medical literature, whenever they define
itch word for word, that's the definition they use. Yeah,
although poor Hoff and Refer doesn't get credit for it
all the time. But that's the one. The only expansion
of that that I've seen is that can occur anywhere
on the body, which apparently is true.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
I think hoff and Reffer he felt that was implied.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Right, And it's like it goes without saying. Yeah, I
mean I'm scratching right now.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah. I don't know if I just noticed more, because
as I was doing it, I was thinking, well, now
I'm scratching. I thought, do I always scratch this much
or itch this much?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Oh? I hadn't thought about that. I'm pretty sure that
I was. I don't think I scratched as much as
I don't know. Do you raise a really good question.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Maybe we can get an intern to follow us around
just record our scratching, right.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
I'm surprised that that's not already a TV show. Frankly,
Josh and Chuck scratch just being followed around.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah, oh, you know, no one wants to see that.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Well, that's probably why it's not you're scratching. See, that's
what I'm saying. I don't think I scratched this much.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I don't notice it all right, Moving on to Dante's Inferno.
It was in Dante's Inferno, the burning age of fierce
itching that nothing could relieve is how falsifiers were punished.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, do you know what a falsifier is?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Us?
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I no, really, Like, isn't that that somebody who like
bears false witness or somebody who falsifies a document or.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Is it just a fancy name for liar?
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Maybe?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Oh? I thought you were gonna tell me you were
just wondering.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yeah, I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
All right, Well, I don't know what Dante meant, but
they're they're bad people.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Sure, apparently there's a special place in health for him literally,
well I guess actually not literally figuratively sure, literally.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Oh very nice. So itching scientifically is known as pururitis
p r U R I T I S. Yeah, it's
one of those tough to pronounce things for me at least,
and for well. Actually, they still believe that the evolution
of the itch was to help humans survive, basically because
(07:00):
so many things that can kill you and nature or
things like mosquitoes or flies or spiders or fleas. Yeah,
that can have like malaria or the plague or any
number of diseases attached to their tiny little insect bodies. Right. So, hey, human,
you've got a mosquito on your neck that could kill you.
(07:21):
You might want to slap it or scratch.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah, And that's still, as far as I know, the
evolutionary hypothesis for why we experience itching. Yeah, and it's
not just us either.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Well you're scratching like crazy.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Yeah, it's found throughout the animal kingdom, from us to
apparently fish have shown scratching behavior. Yeah, that's crazy fruit flies.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
How's a fish scratch? You might ask?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
It rubs up against rocks.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yeah, it's kind of cute.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
It is a little cute.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
It's like I remember my dad did like the uh
who was the Barren Jungle book? Was that blue?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
He would do the ballue or he would get up
against a tree or yeah, and then I did it
probably because of that. I'm sure that's where I got
it and realized that it works. And I still do
it every now and then. Oh yeah, yeah, it look
kind of silly. But do you sing while you do it? Yeah?
Bare necessities, that's still my favorite.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
What else are you going to sing? Like Mambo number five?
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I'm gonna start doing that. Actually, you'd be like, think
something's wrong with Chuck.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
So, like you said, though, it was up until almost
well was it nineteen eighty seven, the mid to late eighties. Yeah,
that another German h O handworker and his gang, sure
of toughs. They started to do actual like research about it.
(08:48):
They were puzzled and wanted to solve.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
It, right, because up to this point, up to actually
nineteen eighty seven, everyone thought that an itch was just
a low grade pain stimulus.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, I guess happy with that.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
That's just what they thought it was. And hand worker said,
you know what, let's let's find out if this is
actually true. I'm tired of sitting around just assuming this
is fine. I'm a hand worker. And he got to
work her with his hands, testing this, right, So what
he knows, like Jonathan Strickland level, what he did was
(09:26):
this is just awful. He introduced using like electrical stimulation.
I guess he introduced histamine to skin cells, right. And
histamine is a natural I don't know if it's a protein,
but it's it's a natural, natural chemical, right that the
body releases in response to certain stimuli, say, for example,
(09:47):
like a mosquito bite or something. And it triggers the
inflammation and immune response in that area. Right, So histamine
is associated with itch and it had been for a
very long time. So this I was using an electrical
stimulation to introduce histamine and increasing amounts in these poor
(10:08):
study participants, and it went from barely noticeable to this
is a quote, the maximum imaginable itch. And they never
felt paint.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, like even though they ramped it up to eleven,
no one ever said like, holy crap, that hurts.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
They said, please, please, fore love God stop, let me
out of this. And hand Wurker just cackled and cackled, right,
and these men with like black leather gloves were holding
the participants down.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah, they said, this is not worth the five Deutsche
marks that I'm getting for this lousy study.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah, that's nice man, that's this would have been pre
euro I think, oh yeah, even though the EU was around,
I don't think the euro was around in eighty seven
right now, No, no, because the nineties I traveled.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
I traveled to Europe in nineteen ninety seven and there
was I was still on all that weird money.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Oh okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
So it was a while after that. So now scientists,
I think this sort of introduced an itch to the
scientific community because after hundreds and hundreds of years, Hanvoka
sort of disrupted the thought process of the itch and
the scratch, and all of a sudden, scientists were like, oh, well,
(11:25):
maybe we should start looking into this, Maybe we can
actually isolate the nerve and figure this thing out.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Yeah, because I mean if it's not, if it's not
just a low level pain sensation, then that means it's
its own thing. And if it's its own thing, it
probably has its own system and we need to know
more about it. So they they got to study in it.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah what ma I wonder if all of this was
under the notion that they were trying to cure itching.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
I don't know, because from what I was reading and
all of this was pretty recent stuff. Yeah, there's a
real un medical need in dealing and addressing like chronic itch. Sure,
because you know, most people who go through life just
experiencing itch under normal circumstances. Right, Let's say you or me,
we're like an itch. Yeah, they suck for a second
(12:13):
and then it goes away. Imagine it not going away ever,
whether you're asleep or awake, or swimming or an outer
space or doing whatever you're itching constantly. Supposedly it has
as much of a pronounced effect on a patient's life
as chronic pain does. It's constant, persistent, and agonizing, and
(12:37):
it's not being met or treated because it's not understood.
So they're just now starting to get into pain or
itch research. I saw somebody put it where pain research
was about twenty years ago, So it's starting to really
heat up, but we're still just starting to understand it.
So I would think that they weren't looking to cure it.
(12:57):
I think it was just pointed out that there was
a whole branch of neuroscience that was right totally not understood,
So get to work neurologists.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
I wonder I never really thought about it until just now,
But I wonder what happens when a performer or somebody
like that is in the public eye or on TV
or on stage or like the president giving an address,
Like what what what did they do if they have
poison ivy or some other kind of contact dermatitis? Like
(13:28):
have you ever thought about that? Like what if Lynn
Mail went Manuel Miranda has like a really bad case
of POY. I guess they can get an understudy in
that case, sure, but you can't have an understudy as
president no, which is too bad.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
You just go out there with your hands bandaged up,
just holding them up, like how do you fight that
poison ivy on camera?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Or like a news anchor when they're just like, oh
my god, I'm dying. I don't know. I guess a
news anchor can tape things, but I'm talking about live.
What does Tom Petty do?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
For God's sakes, Tom Petty and bears it. He had
a hard scrubble childhood prepared him for that.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I'm going to see him tomorrow night. Oh yeah, waiting
for coffee. He's not performing anyway. I was just curious
about that.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Well, it's a good question.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Thanks.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Do you remember when Costas had red eye at the Olympics.
I was so dedicated to being the commentator, the anchor
for the Olympics. They finally were like, you have to stop. Yeah,
no one can look.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
At you, people writing and you're disgusting them. One thing
that made me think of that is I had recently.
You can still kind of see it on my forearm,
the scars. But I did a cement job. I was
building this fence, putting in a gate at my house
and Scotty, you know, Scotty and I built huh, Scotty Pippin.
(14:51):
He and I built this thing together. And we sank
these huge posts for this gate. And I didn't know
that cement could cause contact dermatitis or even burns. Never
knew this. Yeah, and we were it was kind of
a tight spot and we couldn't get shovels in there
in the hole, so we were literally mixing the stuff
(15:12):
like up to our elbows with our arms, and I
was like, this kind of feels good. I even said, like,
you know, like oatmeal or something. And then two days
later my right arm was just covered in the nastiest
dermatitis I've ever seen, and then he got it. Yeah,
it's still like kind of hanging around. So I went
and got a prescription for steroids, which made me a
(15:33):
little crazy for a week and a half.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
You trashed the gate and have to start over.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
No, I think I was probably not the best husband
though over that time period. Judging from Emily saying, hey,
you're real a hole. Get off the steroids, gotcha, get
off the juice, I was like, shut up, watch me
hit this homer. So long story short, I experienced this
(16:00):
and it was awful. And I can't imagine like shooting
the TV show or something, or like doing anything or
performing live, like I would have to address it because
I would scratch and smack. It was what I usually do.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
That's how you're supposed to do, not scratch. I guess
we'll just cut to the chase here. This is why
everyone's listening. How do you scratch a niche? Correctly? You
rub it?
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah? I didn't do I did you know?
Speaker 3 (16:24):
It?
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Really did? It was the we have a handheld implement
in the shower along with the regular shower head and
put that sucker on the tightest, hardest, most penetrating flow
and just put that hot water on it. Man, And
that was like, I think I spent half my days
in the shower over that week and a half.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Are you biting down like a broomstick while you're doing that?
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Now? It felt so good, man. I was just like
I couldn't get enough of it.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
And then the court zone and all that jump too.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
So we'll we'll talk about this because this you're raising
some great points here.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
Well I just kind of ruined the spoiler.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
No, No, this is good stuff. We're going to analyze
what was going on with your arm after this break?
Speaker 2 (17:09):
How about that sounds good?
Speaker 3 (17:18):
So, Chuck, you had contact dermatitis.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Right, I thought it was poison ivy because that area
has some poison ivy.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
But each of us, Scotty and I had it just
on the arm that we sunk in cement, right, And
then we researched and found out that could happen.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Yeah, so Lesson learned on that.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
So what happened was you like something in the cement
and I'm not sure what it was reacted chemically with
the mast cells in your skin. Yeah, and histamine was released,
right apparently, And so the histamine sent a signal through
specialized nerve cells called sea fibers.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, which sea fibers aren't just limited to itching. I
think only about five percent handle that, and right, most
of the rest are for pain.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Right, right, So they use the same type of neural
pathway as pain, but for itch it's it's basically it's
just like, no, these these are just for itches only. Yeah,
And it sent a signal through your spinal column, and
in your spinal column, it released a neurotransmitter called gastrin,
(18:40):
releasing peptide receptor, and so at the skin, the histamine
would have released a neurotransmitter called.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
What natur uretic polypeptide B.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Okay, So that says itch signal coming your way along
those sea fibers, yes, okay, uh, it makes it to
the spinal column, and I guess in about two and
seven they found that there's another neurotransmitter in the spine
that I guess accepts the the NPPB the invitation and
says I'm going to transfer this along up to the brain.
(19:13):
That's gastrin releasing peptide receptor that shoots up to the
brain and it starts this cascade of activity. Right Because
when they, like after handworker said, hey, you know, itching
is its own thing. These other researchers went to town
and traced and figured out that there were specific, specific
(19:33):
types of itch receptors that were dedicated just to itches.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Right, more Germans, more Germans, a couple.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Of Swedes, but mostly Germans for good measure. Yeah, And
what they found eventually from tracing this pathway, they were
able to follow it into the wonder machine and apparently
they made some people itch and would not let them
scratch it. And then They had them lay down in
an MRI and they took a brain scan and they
found that there's this whole galaxy of stuff going on
(20:02):
in your brain that combined is the itch sensation.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah. It was pretty interesting too. There's a signature pattern
in the brain when you get an itch, and a
few specific areas light up. One is a cortex, and
it all makes sense when you put it together. The
cortex in this case just sort of geo locates where
on your body you're getting that sensation, so that helps.
(20:28):
It's like left elbow, yeah, or in my case, from
right elbow to wrist, right, and then a little bit
in other places, but not too bad that that was
the main area.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Is this your cortex still saying this, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
It's very complex conversation going on. And then the region
I thought this was interesting, the region that government's governments
that governs emotional response. So basically, this is your brain
saying like, I don't like this, this makes me feel bad.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Yeah, it's the worst thing ever do something.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
And then finally in the limbic and motor areas, and
I thought this was the most interesting. Those areas process
irresistible urges, the same ones that say I want to
smoke crack or I want to eat too much cake,
says you have an itch that is unbearable and you
need to scratch it.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Right, and maybe go smoke some crack and eat some
cake while you're at.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
It because that'll help. So I just I don't know.
I thought that was all very super interesting when you
combine that pattern.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah, that's the that's an itch, and then then followed
by the irresistible urge to scratch it, which apparently research
has shown those two do not happen independently. They're they're
part of a cycle. Yes, there's something called the itch
scratch cycle, right, and so you have an irresistible urge
to scratch the itch. It's it's weird if you think
(21:49):
about it. Like, on the one hand, it makes sense
where you you sense that there's a really hot heat
source that your hand is really close to, so you
have an irresistible urge to pull it back, but it
doesn't feel like an urge. It almost feels like an
involuntary reflex. Yeah, scratch is almost like I'm going to
(22:12):
kill this itch. I can't wait to scratch it, Like
you're almost exacting revenge on the itch for itching you, right,
So it scratches. It's an irresistible urge where it's like
pulling your hand back from a hot hot source or something,
is like an involuntary reflex. It just feels different, like
a scratches its own thing.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Well it is, you know. They kind of found that
out and go on day. Doctor Gowande pointed out something
interesting too that I never thought about, is that you
can have like that short collar rubs against your neck
all day and you might never notice it. But if
there's like one little string that's just poking one little area,
that might trigger an itch.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Right, and so you would think that, you know, its
receptors are super finely tuned, and they covered just this
one tiny like that's what it would say micron of
skin as a matter of fact. No, apparently an itch
receptor can sense itch stimuli like three inches away from it.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
That's crazy.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Yeah, So they're really sensitive.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, whereas pain receptors are that specific down to like
you know, millimeters.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
And the other thing they found out too is that
not only can they sense it from a few inches away,
but it's a very slow acting thing, which as opposed
to like heat on the hand, like a candle on
your hand almost said candle in the wind. Uh, that's
super fast. But that that explains why an itch like
(23:39):
it's kind of slow to come and then slow to
resolve by scratching. Yeah, it's not like you scratch it,
you're like, oh, it's all better now. Yeah, it helps
a little bit.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
So, so the itching is a it's a good strategy.
If you think about, say you're you're there's a mosquito
on you and that's what's making you itch. When you
go to scratch it, you're getting rid of the mosquito,
maybe even smushed it or something like that. The problems
taken care of the issue is is that that itch
scratch cycle eventually becomes a vicious cycle because when you scratch,
(24:12):
this is what they think is going on. This is
another mystery with itches. We don't understand how scratching alleviates
an itch, right, or why we scratch really right? What
they think the current hypothesis is that when you scratch
an itch, you're stimulating other receptors in the area that
(24:32):
aren't itch receptors.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Yeah, so I got that, but what does that do
to sort of like say, hey, body, don't worry about
that for a minute, I think. So a pain receptor
is now.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Active, right exactly, it's sending feedback to the brain saying
it's being taken care of. You can settle down with
the itch, gotcha, right. I think the problem is that
neurologically or neurochemically, when you scratch an itch, you're activating
those pain receptors in the area pain pressure, that kind
of thing. You're causing serotonin to be released, right, natural
(25:05):
pain reliever, right, yeah, or at least mood enhancer. And
what they found is that serotonin, among other neurochemicals, actually
exacerbates the itch sensation. So your itch not only comes back,
it gets worse. So you go to scratch it again,
and then the same thing happens over and over again.
That's the itch scratch cycle, which it's not the best
(25:25):
cycle around. No, you can make a better cycles.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Not a bad band name. Yeah, it's okay, a little
too cute.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Maybe progue folk progue.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
They well, they'd have to be German probably.
Speaker 3 (25:39):
German folk progue. Okay.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Another interesting thing they learned too, is that I guess
we're kind of jumping around, but who cares. Right, if
you scratch, you don't have to scratch the point of
the itch to relieve it, apparently, right, Like if you
have had that itch on my right forearm and I
could scratch, maybe then you have to be the left forearm,
(26:03):
so it's not like you have to mirror it. But
I could scratch like my neck and apparently that might
help relieve it.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Yeah. I tried it. It didn't work for me. No, No,
But I think the reason why there's that's it's possible
that it could have that effect is supposedly scratching also
activates like your pleasure center.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, you bet it does.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
But there's different different places where you're scratching on your
body have different amounts of pleasure associated with them. Did
you know that? I mean, I guess, I guess so.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
But yeah, interesting, Yeah, but I mean think about it.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
It's like if you scratch your scratch your like your clavicle,
who cares, it's nothing, right, But then you scratch like
your head right above and behind your ear, it's great.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Well, and they I think they did find that, like
you're back in your ankles supposedly or some of the
most rewarding places to scratch exactly. And I I don't know,
I've never really thought about the ankles. But my mom
would give me backscratches when I was a kid. That's nice,
and it was always like one of my favorite things ever. Sure,
(27:14):
and so I don't get those anymore now that I'm
a grown up because that's gross. You know, my mom
scratched my back, right, I'm forty six years old, lay down,
But yeah, it was like I think I preferred to
backscratch to a back rub even oh yeah, when I
was younger. But now, you know, massage is probably way better. Sure,
(27:36):
but if they if a massuse could include a little
backscratch in there, yeah, get ready for a huge tip
for me. Yeah, I guess, or does that? What is
that sexual? I think it.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Crosses a line once they're potentially clawing away skin cells.
I think that's longer in the massuse range or massuur range.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, I get that. Once skin cells are involved, you know,
under the nails, then your murder suspect, right, exactly? All right, Well,
should we take another break and talk a little bit
about one of the most distressing articles I've ever read?
(28:32):
All right, so we've referenced this article from The New
Yorker from doctor utsul Goande and he talked a lot
about itching and just had good information on the science
of it all.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Well that's what he does.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
But most of the article was focused on a patient,
a woman in Massachusetts that they named EM for the
article just M the letter M. In other words, you know,
she's anonymous, And I think she was anonymous because she
kind of had a rough go after her divorce. She
(29:06):
ended up getting HIV from getting on heroin kind of
spun out, it seems like, but then got her life
back by all accounts, but ended up getting shingles as
a result of HIV complications, and the shingles went away,
but the itching did not, to say the least.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Yeah, I think the itching came after the shingles, even
And at first her her physicians were like, well, I
mean you must have it damaged some nerves in there.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
So.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Ts for you, I guess yeah. And then eventually after
treating it like all these different ways and it's still
being scratching, they said, Okay, you're crazy. How about that, right,
And she said, well, whatever, I still have this itch.
Do whatever you need to to treat it because I'm
literally scratching the itch in my sleep. It was on
(30:01):
her scalp wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Yeah, it was on her head and she she kind
of managed to control it during the day, but like
you said, at night, she couldn't control it to the
point where I think she was like restrained in her sleep.
That came after, Oh okay, after they realized it's a
problem because your brain is using out of your head.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Can you believe that she scratched her scalp so much
that she scratched through her skull. And she went into
her doctor one day and said, they've got like this
green fluid coming down. And then apparently the doctor the
doctor didn't even say anything, he was just she or
she was like, excuse me, went and called an ambulance
and came back and said please lay down and don't
(30:42):
talk or move or do anything else. And they finally
told her after she was at the er, you scratched
through to your brain, Like that's your brain you're touching
right now.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
The doctor's like, very interesting, just give me a second
here her, Oh my god. Well, they gathered up all
the other doctors and nurses. Sure, yeah, you got to
come see this.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
She said. Also in this article, she said that she
had a what do they call a roommate and okay,
a roommate, So she had a roommate while she was like,
they treated it, gave her a skin graft, and then
she she she scratched away the skin graft, and then
(31:29):
they finally were like, okay, you're going to an asylum.
And she's like, do they even call it that anymore?
And they're like, just shut up, and they put her
in this asylum and restrained her, like you said, while
she was sleeping, and she had a roommate in there.
She said in the article she she heard didn't survive.
He had scratched through his carotid artery and died bled death.
(31:50):
So they never really got to the bottom of this.
She finally got a doctor. Like the doctors are like,
it's something that had to do with the s this
is what we think happens. That are doctors that the
the nerve endings around the area where she had shingles
were so devastated by the shingles that there were just
(32:11):
a couple of nerve endings left and it just so
happened that they were itch receptors. It yeah, itch receptors,
and that those were like really exacerbated by the fact
that there was no other competing sensations. Ipso facto, there's
your problem, right, So they said, well, we'll just cut
the main nerve to your face and that should solve
(32:33):
the problem. They cut the main nerve to her face
and she said yeah, and then the itch came back
and she's like, you have to be kidding me. So
finally she met a doctor who said, I don't think
it's your your receptors or the nerve transmission. I think
it's your brain, not psychologically. I don't think it's a psychosis.
(32:53):
I think there's that the actual itch signal and your
brain is being set off without any stimulation or transmission
going on. Yeah, and apparently she was right, but then
they were like, good luck treating that right.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
You know. I didn't see much follow up on this.
I did read one article that a follow up with
doctor Gowande because there were a lot of skeptics after
that article came out that said it's impossible with your
fingernail because she said she didn't use an implement. It's
not like she got out of metal file to scratch
through your skull. And he said that his theory was
that bacteria it became infected had eaten it away such
(33:30):
that the skull became soft. Yeah. And then people also said,
and you know, you don't have men and women in
the same room in hospitals or asylums. That's that's false.
And he said that it was like the room next
door and quit being pedantic. Yeah, really, man, I think
people just didn't believe it. So all these folks rode
(33:51):
into the New Yorker. So those coastal elites said, no way,
They said.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
A tool, A tool, come on. So the idea though
that even if this woman was hypothetical, I think tool
Gwande is pretty upstanding cat and didn't make this up.
But even if say she was hypothetical, her problem. What
the doctors initially thought it was was that she had
(34:16):
a neuropathic itch, type of chronic itch. But then the
doctor who apparently figured it all out, said no, no, no,
it's a neurogenic itch, another type of chronic itch, and
it has to do with whether it's the brain going
off or the nerve transmissions going off. Either way, you
don't actually have an itch, although you're experiencing the itch
(34:39):
sensation well.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
And they also then said at some point she had
a psychogenic itch, right, So they basically covered three out
of the four kinds of itches, the last one being
man such a hard time per ireceptive and that's what
you get from like a mosquito bite, yeah, or if
you have a skin disorder like exma or something. Sure,
So they basically ruled out the most common one and
(35:01):
at various stages said, now you've got this other.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
One right for the other three, right, finally, and then
again they said, we don't. There's really nothing we can
do to treat it. The one that they've got down
pretty well is per receptive. We've got all sorts of
stuff to treat that because that's that's basically histamine is
being released and your your skin is itching. So you
can treat histamines with antihistamines. Yeah, you can reduce that
(35:24):
response and then your itch will go away.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Well, I took benadrill at night, and they also make
this benadrill spray, a topical spray that just it really helps. Right,
So between that and cortizone and then the benadrill at night,
I did okay, right, and those awesome showers.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
So the like the pre receptive itch, we've got treatment
for basically, Yeah, the other three you're you're in trouble.
It turns out, as far as it stands right now,
maybe five or ten years from now there'll be something.
Apparently there is a lot of movement right now on
treating this stuff, but it's like they're having to figure
(36:03):
out how to block some really otherwise important chemicals in
the body, like that NPPB, Right.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, that one? What does It can help regulate your
blood pressure as well, right, So they can't switch that off?
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Right? Yeah, just turn off the gene that produces that.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
You won't itch, but you might die early, right, not
worth it? Right? The one that really, I mean, they're
all sad, but the psychogenic when you have a mental
illness where you feel like parasites and bugs on your skin.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Remember our Morglon's disease? Yeah, how did you said it?
More gallons? Right? And I said Morgalons.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
I can't remember. I know that I said it the
way everyone else El says it, though, That's all.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
I remember, Morgalons, that's right, That's how I said it.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Man. But all this stuff, it just had so much
empathy for m Yeah, and wanted to follow up so
bad to see how she was doing, you know. Yeah,
she kept scratching holes in her skull.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
I don't know, geez. So there's I read another article
called Accidental Therapists. It's by a guy named Eric Brudman,
and it was published on a website called stat and
it's all about delusional para parasitosis but how it's treated
sometimes by entomologists, you know, like those extension services at
(37:27):
universities here in the US, like state universities have what
it called extension services, where like a scientist will basically
be there for the public to come talk to about whatever.
Usually it's like household stuff, for farm stuff, something like that.
And apparently entomologists frequently are approached with people who are like,
(37:48):
I've got these bugs like crawling all over me. Here's
the sample of them. And it turns out it's like
carpet fiber or something like that, and these people just
can't stop itching or whatever. But it turns out they
have a delusion, they don't actually have parasites. My question is,
is that our understanding of it now and in five
or ten years, we're going to know that they had
neurogenic itches and we just treated them like they were
(38:09):
crazy even though they weren't.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Yeah, and it's going.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
To be like a real blemish on the history of
neuroscience maybe, or will this idea of psychogenic itches? You know?
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Hold up, Yeah, I wonder did you ever see the
Todd Haynes movie Safe with Julianne Moore. No, it was
one of his first movies after the Karen Carpenter thing
he did. That wasn't like I mean, it was a
real movie, but it wasn't released. But Safe was very disturbing.
It was about a woman who kind of slowly drifted
into madness from believing that the world was poisoning her wow,
(38:45):
and like household chemicals and everything, And it kind of
started slow and eventually she ended up at this kind
of safe camp for people like her. Right, very distressing movie,
and some one of her first movies too.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
I'll have to check it out.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Yeah, it's really good.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Oh it's old.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah it was. It was early nineties. I think I
know you're talking about. No, it's called the Road to Wellville.
Is that what you mean? No, it's called Safe.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Okay, I'll check it out.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah, it's good and very distressing.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
I'm trying to think of anything.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
And that wasn't necessarily itching, but it was just like
that psychogenic thing of like, I think everything in my
house is killing me. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
I mean, have you ever like stopped and thought about
something and thought, there's there's the path to madness right there.
I'm staring down it right now. I should probably not
keep thinking about this.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
I don't really get like that. Oh no, no, I'm
very easily kind of led onto the next shiny thing.
Speaker 3 (39:37):
I guess, oh like a bird.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Yeah. Yeah, basically that's probably for the best it is.
It has its drawbacks, though, Uh, what else you got? Well,
one thing it says in here is that having someone
else scratch your itch does apparently does not do the trick.
So you have to scratch your own itch.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
Yeah, I mean somebody can like obviously, like you know,
if you're like a little left a little left up
up up. Yeah, see, I can't work.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
I agree with that. Oh man, not you them saying,
oh right, like, I think it definitely helps.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
I think what they're saying is that it doesn't have
quite the same relieving properties as if you do it yourself.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Oh yeah, and if you could reach that area of
your back, it would be better than that. Yeah, I guess,
so I got a pretty good backscratcher.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Now though, Oh yeah, what's it made of bamboo?
Speaker 1 (40:28):
No, it's it's metal, but it's telescoping, so it's not
you know, two feet long, but it can be.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
But it's metal.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Yeah, it looks like a like what are the bear claw?
Not the pastry, but a real bear claw which actually
looks like the pastry. Yeah, I guess that's why they
call it that. I never thought about that. Why do
you think that was called that? I actually call it
a bear paw. It looks more like a bear pa.
I'm trying and bring that, bring that around.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Unless you get somebody like really the extra mile and
puts almonds on the tips to make it look like
the claw.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Yes, and not just haphazardly scattered about the bare paw exactly.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Yeah, that's the difference between a baker who loves their
job the one who's just in it for the money.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
A couple more things, Charles. Like we said, there's still
plenty of mysteries around itches. Yeah, why say, does a
feather tickle sometimes but itch other times? Big question? They
don't know, right, but I'd like to know.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Well, maybe the Germans will get active on this again. Yeah,
they're the only ones who can solve it.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
Only the Germans can save us. You got anything else?
Speaker 1 (41:45):
No, I don't. I don't either. Itching.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Nice work, thanks man, same to you, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
And you haven't scratched in a while, so.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
No, I'm actually I've been scratching the same spot and
it's starting to get a little tender stopping. Man.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
There's nothing worse in a movie, and I've seen it.
I feel like I've seen this a few times in
movies where someone is compulsively like scratching until it becomes
a sore, and then they're scratching it. It's just like
ugh through their brain.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
Well, yeah, so I guess the moral of this one
is what would Tom Petty do? I'll ask him tomorrow.
If you want to know more about itching or what
Tom Petty would do, you can type those words in
the search bart howstufforks dot com. And since I said
search bar, it's time for listener mail.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
I'm gonna call this one of the many emails we
got on the swearing episode. Do you notice that people
really seem to like that one? Yeah, they did a
lot of response from mostly from fellow potty mouths, which
were very filthy emails too, which were great, and I
responded in turn by cursing at them. Sure replies, which
(43:01):
I hope they enjoyed in all caps, No, I didn't
want to be too aggressive. So this is from Emily Allen. Hey, guys,
longtime listener, first time writing in writing about swearing. I
should start by saying that it's funny I'm writing about
this episode because I almost never curse, and when I do,
it's normally not a very offensive swear. However, your intro
(43:22):
made me think of something interesting I wanted to share.
You talked about how you really censor yourself during recording
in or to keep your show family friendly. It got
me thinking about how our jobs really shape our vocabulary,
how we express ourselves. I noticed a major change in
the way I speak since becoming a teacher, primarily teach
kindergarten to second grade students, and I found this really
change the way I express myself. For example, I try
(43:44):
to avoid even saying things are dumb or stupid around kids.
We'll often say, well, isn't that silly? Instead. This works
in the classroom, but I often get laughs from friends
and family when I refer to a situations silly, like
a disagreement with a colleague or something a politician does.
There are other expressions I use with kids that often
(44:06):
slip into regular conversation as well. The most embarrassing when
I'm out and excuse myself to go potty. That always
gets a laugh. Anyway, just want to share and thank
you for all the great work you do. Learn so
much from listening each week and I'm always excited to
see the new episode offerings every Tuesday and Thursday. That
is from Emily Alan. Thank you, Miss Allen, very silly.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
That was a very nice email. Yeah, if you want
to get in touch with us, like miss Allen did,
you can send us an email and stuff podcast at
houstuffworks dot com and has always joined us at our
home on the web. Stuff you Should Know dot com.
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
For more podcasts my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows
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