October 19, 2024 • 40 mins
We love animals. A lot. Especially underrated ones like the darling porcupine. Listen in to this classic episode to learn all about these stabby little boogers.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
It was a dark and stormy night just like this one.
Exactly four years ago today minus four days that we
released the porcupine episode. Oh sorry, Halloween's almost upon us,
and I guess the spirit of the season got in me.
(00:23):
At any rate. Here's our porcupine episode. We're proud of
all of our animal episodes, but this one in particular
really takes the cake. So enjoy it with some cake.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and
there's Charles w Chuck Bryan over there, and this is
stuff you should know about porcupines, which this is a
great idea. Chuck, good job.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
You know, the pine when you take away all those quills,
is just a cute little guinea pig.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Basically a giant one.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yeah, a cute big guinea pig.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Speaking of cute porcupines, Dude, do you remember Teddy Bear
the porcupine kind of went a little viral a few
years ago. No, you have to watch Teddy Bear the Porcupine,
specifically Teddy Bear the Porcupine doesn't like to share on YouTube,
and it is this porcupine eating corn on the cob
(01:33):
and making all these sounds like cousin it and it
is one of the cutest things I've ever seen in
my entire life.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, we want to shout out Live Science, Smithsonian, Mental Floss,
the San Diego Zoo, and a couple of other websites
that I coupled together this wonderful bit on one of
our wonderful animal friends in the world. We'd love to
do these shows. It just made me think, have you
seen the octopus documentary thing yet?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
No? I haven't. I've been like kind of popping up
in my in my periphery, but I don't really know
what it is. Is it just about OCTOPI.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Well, it's it's called My Octopus Teacher. I haven't seen
it yet, but I just know that the dealer, this
guy kind of gets to know one octopus and that's right.
You know, A nice story ensues, is all I know.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
That's neat. We'll have to watch that.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, I can't. I can't wait. But and I mentioned
that because you know, we've long said that the octopus
is our favorite animal. But I feel like almost every
time we've done one on an animal, it's on something
that we love, and boy do I love the quill pig.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I do too. Yeah, apparently that's what the their Latin
name means, quill pig.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
That's great, That is fantastic. And it turns out, Chuck,
that there are basically two groups that porcupines get lumped into.
There's a bunch of different GENI yeah, that's right, and speace.
But they basically fall under two categories. It's Old World,
which is Europe, Africa, Asia, and the New World, which
(03:08):
is North, South, and Central America. And if you saw
a you know, porcupine in South America and you saw
one in you know, the Himalayas, you probably would be like,
that's porcupine. That's porcupine too. They're not radically different like
some Old World and New World's animals are.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah. But something I saw that was interesting was that
they evolved separately what one of those what is it
called co evolutions or whatever.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
No, I didn't see that. That's that is crazy.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I saw that, and I only saw it in one place, so.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
I think that might have been a personal hypothesis of
somebody who got them, maybe website.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I saw it somewhere though, and then that the two
actually the Old World in the New World have less
in common then they do individually with like some other
rodents in their area.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, so I'm actually not surprised to hear that. But
the one thing that they do have in common across
the board is that they have quills, and that they
use their quills defensively. Now what their quills look like,
how they use their quills. There's a lot of other
distinctions and differences between Old World and New World, but
they all have quills. They're all porcupines. That seems to
(04:28):
be the thing that binds them. It's the tie that
binds that family.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, And it's just it's easy to take the porcupine
for granted, I think, and just say, yeah, the little
animal with all those quills. But when you take a
step back and look at it and think about the
evolution of the porcupine that, like I said, it sort
of would be a very large, sort of cute, little
fluffy guinea pig, but it probably got eaten a lot.
(04:57):
And then you know, they said nuts to this nature
steps in It is like, all right, how about this.
What if we were just animal pincushions such that if
you came anywhere near us, you would be stabbed repeatedly
if you tried to eat us, Like, It's one of
the most amazing evolutionary adaptations I've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, And I mean they can really use those things too.
There's a long standing myth that they can shoot them,
which is not true, but apparently even Aristotle fell for
that one, and what a dummy. But they can use
them in some pretty interesting ways. And you hit the
nail on the head when you said, you know, step
back if you see a porcupine. That is good advice.
(05:40):
You should probably step back because depending on the species
or whether it's an Old world or New world, those
quills can mess you up pretty good.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah. But also you know, get nearby and take a look,
like they're not going to come after you. The porcupine
is a very kind hearted animal. Yeah, and those are
one hundred percent for defense. A porcupine is never going
to charge you, and you know, leap at your belly
to put quills all in your stomach. So take a
(06:10):
little look, admire it for what it is. I think,
you know, to talk about porcupines, a lot of this
is talking about the old world versus the rush version.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah. So the big differences that I saw and there's
lots of differences between different species within each of these groups,
but the Old World versus New World have some big
differences between them, and one of them is that Old
World are typically terrestrial porcupines. They spend most of their
lives on the ground. They live in burrows or caves
(06:43):
or rock dens, and New World porcupines they live on
the ground too, they live in burrows, but they're also
very capable of climbing trees, and they'll spend a significant
amount of time and sometimes nests in trees. And there
are some species that spend virtually their whole lies in trees,
almost like sloths.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, quill wise, the New World porcupines quills are going
to be shorter and smaller in general. I think they're
about four to ten four inches ten centimeters. The Old
World dudes and ladies they can get very long. They
can have quills up to twenty inches long. They can
(07:22):
be marked with black and white bands. And what they
can do is these Old World guys can puff them
up so they stand up and are more intimidating and look. Also,
I mean it's weird because it's like multifold, like four
or five different things they do. By doing this, they
look larger, so that's always something that vulnerable animals try
(07:44):
to do in the wild. They look like a skunk
a little bit because of the black and white marking
down their back.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
They actually have a defensive musk kind of like a skunk,
which is not nearly as bad.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah, so they try to imitate a skunk a little bit.
They look bigger, They rattle, They can shake those things
and rattle them, which is another great adaptation to say
like get away from me, don't try and eat me.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And supposedly that works pretty well too.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Yeah, totally. And then if all else fails, they are stabby.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
They are stabby. So sometimes the old world ones will
actually charge backwards toward a predator if they're feeling like
they want to stand their ground, and that's usually when
they're caught out in the open. If they have a
place to hide, they'll stick their head in that place
to hide and then puff out their quills and make
themselves hard to get at. But if they're out in
(08:39):
the open, they may decide that they're going to fight
off this predator and they'll charge backward. And one other
adaptation I saw, which I thought was awesome. They'll have
the predator chase it, and then they'll stop all of
a sudden, and the predator will run into them in
their quills for real.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
And then you hear the sound effect.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, exactly, and then it's too late.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because those quills, even though
they puff them out, they are pointed generally in the
reverse direction, right, which you know, which is why they
have to back up into something to quill them or
like you said, bury them, just throwing that parking break
real quick, and all of a sudden, that fox has
got a face full of quill, right.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
So that Old World contains a couple of species that
are called crested porcupines, and they basically look like if
the quills were like an umbrella. It opens at the
back of their head, yeah, and just kind of sticks
out like that, and like you said, it makes them
look a lot bigger. They're a lot more dangerous. The
(09:42):
big difference with quills between the Old World and the
New World, in addition to being shorter, is Old World
porcupines are covered in quills. That's all they have. They're
like they have like I don't know if we said
or not, but quills are just modified hair. They're made
a carratin. They're just like hair. They're just way stabbier
than hair that you and I have.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Well, it's like hair Mead's fingernails basically.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, that's a great way to put it. And Old
World porcupines, that's all they have are quills. New World
porcupines have quills that are also mixed in with fur
like an undercoat, longer hairs, and their quills kind of
stand up and are used for defense. That's not just
it's not all that they have. And the other thing
(10:26):
about their quills is that they have little barbs, and
New World porcupines barbs make their New World quills way
more dangerous than Old World quills.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah, it's like little fish hook basically, and it'll instead
of just poking right into you, it'll actually snag in
your flesh and makes it, like you said, way way
tougher to get out, a much harder time removing a
New World quill than an Old World quill. Right, But
those New World guys are because their quills start further back.
(11:00):
You get the feeling if you just and I wouldn't
recommend this, but if you just go very gently and
just say, hey, little guy, no do that. I just
I just want to give you a stretch under the
under the chin, and I think you might enjoy it.
And I'm gonna move very slowly. Just don't turn around,
and you'll you'll have a really good time.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I'd like to include a disclaimer here, don't do it.
You guys should not listen to Chuck right now. He's
doling out some really terrible advice.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, it's just because those quills start further back. They
got that cute little head and face, and it just
makes you want to give him a scritch.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah, no, totally. Like if you watch Teddy Teddy Bear
videos Teddy Bear the Porcupine, you will want to go
get one as a pet. There's another one I saw
called Diva, and she's a baby porcupine. She's adorable. Yeah,
you totally want to do that, and I'm sure there
are ways to handle them. But I also saw, you know,
one of those zoo guys on a late night talk
(11:57):
show and he had I think an African crested porcupine
on his lap and that thing was not at all
worried or scared or in any sort of defense mode.
And that dude was in pain just letting this thing
sit on his lap because I don't know. You said,
you know, they look like guinea pigs, and I said,
overgrown guinea pigs. Some of these things can get really big.
There's a cape porcupine. I think it's the biggest one.
(12:20):
They get up to like sixty five pounds. Sixty five pounds,
it's like a large dog. Yeah, and with quills though, uh,
with the quills puffed up, No, like they're sixty five
pounds year round. And then but imagine a sixty five
pound dog with those quills. That's dangerous.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, what I meant. I know they don't actually weigh
more when they puff up, but they can. When they
puff those quills out, they can look two to three
times their size. So right, yeah, yeah, I imagine that
thing looks enormous. And actually I don't do this much,
but I'm watching that thing eat that corn on the
cop right now.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Isn't that adorable?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah? I have to have the sound down, so I'm
gonna go back and watch it.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
You have to hear this, like the sound does it?
But even without the sound, he's just awfully cute. Huh.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah, it kind of They kind of look like Beaver's
a little bit too, and they are related as fellow rodents. Here.
I think we should take a break. I'm getting kind
of worked up here, and we'll come back and talk
more about these cute little stabby suckers right after this.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Okay, Charles, we're back, and we've been talking mostly about quills.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, so one more thing about quills, and there's gonna
be more than one more thing about quills, let's be honest.
But we said they couldn't shoot him. What they can do?
These things do fall out just like hair, and they
grow just like fingernails and will eventually fall so when
they shake, they if they have loose quills, they can
fly off. But they're still not like shooting, like Aristotle said,
(14:06):
like deadly needle darts.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
No, but they can be problematic, like these things can
puncture the sidewalls of tires. I was reading the blog
of some tire company ka L Tires, I think up
in the Yukon, and they said that it's actually it
can be a problem if you run over one, like
on some roads. Yeah that if you're out in the
middle of nowhere and you run over a porcupine quill
(14:30):
you're you're probably going to get a flat that's how
tough those things are.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Well, that's sad.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
What for your tire? No for the afternoon? Well, no,
you're not running over Are you still watching Teddy Bear videos?
Speaker 2 (14:44):
No? I thought you said if you run over a porcupine,
it can porcupine quill? Oh well, I mean what is it?
Just a loose quill on the road.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, exactly, That's what I'm saying. Like, just a loose
quill laying on the road. If you run over it
goes into your sidewall, You're probably going to get a
flat tire. That's how tough those things are.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Okay, I thought you. And if you actually run over
a porcupine and you have like a bunch of quills, that.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Would probably do it too, especially if the porcupine was
in a defensive procedure. But the porcupine doesn't have to
die in this case for you to give a flat tire.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
So regardless of that sadness they there is sadness in that,
despite this great adaptation and this great defense mechanism, they
still can be hunted. Lions can still hunt them human people.
There's the bush meat trade for the Old World porcupines
that is, you know, just you know what that means,
(15:33):
and they're you know, there are owls, wolverines, pythons. There's
something called a fissure that looks sort of like a weasel, bear,
fox or something. Did you look that thing up?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, I think it's related to otters and weasels.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Okay, but it had a little sort of a bear face.
It was interesting.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
But apparently stink too.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Well. They stink in more ways than one because they
learned to flip these porcupines over where they had that
soft belly meat and no quills as a way to
attack them, which really makes me mad.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, I don't. I don't like fishes for that reason either.
I'd never heard of them until recently, until we started
researching this, I had neither. I don't like them. No,
I just don't like them. Eat something else, Yeah, leave
the porcupines alone, because they're actually pretty nice.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah, and they don't eat what do they eat? They
eat vegetables and fruits and berries and nuts and tubers
and roots.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yeah, so they eat all those things. They'll also eat crops,
which is Porcupines are considered a nuisance, especially if you're
a farmer or even a gardener in the suburbs, because
they will eat your root vegetables. They will eat corn,
love corn, apparently. But they'll also they have another thing too,
(16:50):
where they need sodium in their diet. They acted they
need a pretty even ratio of one to one of
potassium to sodium for their electrical conductivity in their body
to work. But they don't give much sodium in their diet.
Plants have lots of potassium, not much sodium, so they
have to go find it elsewhere. And it turns out
(17:12):
we humans have a lot of stuff that has sodium
in it. Apparently plywood glue contains a lot of sodium,
so they love eating wood. Structures we build out of plywood.
The salt that we put on the roads gets kicked
up on the underside of our car, so you might
find a porcupine chewing on the tires or the hoses
(17:34):
or belts or wires under your car.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, what else that they would even because the humans
sweat so much salt when they're working that they'll go Like,
if you have some wooden pruners in your shed, they'll
go in there and they'll start eating the handle of
your pruners because it just has residual human salt left
over on it.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Right, you just walk in, You're like, are you nuts?
What is wrong with you? You?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Porcupine just set up a salt like for those fellas.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, well they'll find anywhere they can find a natural salt, like,
they'll definitely eat that too. But yes, anything that has
human sweat on, even trace amounts of human sweat, they'll
go bonkers. Like they eat oars, paddles, that kind of stuff.
But yes, typically they eat leaves, stems, they eat shoots
and leaves. They also, though, and this is another reason
(18:26):
why they're considered a nuisance, they eat the bark off
of the tree. So they're considered generalists. They'll eat just
about any kind of vegetation, which is actually and they're
also super adaptable, which is why you'll find porcupines almost
anywhere there's vegetation. But they'll that's what they eat, you know,
in spring, summer, fall, and then in winter. They don't hibernate,
(18:48):
which actually makes them kind of unusual as well. But
they go from being generalists to what's known as faculative specialists,
meaning their diet becomes very limited to just one or
two types of trees. And not just one or two
types of trees. During the winter, they may just feed
on the inner bark of one tree, and that can
(19:11):
be problematic because the inner bark is where nutrients and
water moves from the roots to the rest of the tree.
And if that porcupine eats all the way around it,
what's called girdling a tree, it can kill or seriously
damage that tree.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah. So I I mean, if you have a problem,
if you live in the woods and stuff and you
see a tree, it could be a beaver, but either way,
you kind of handle it the same. You can wrap
like chicken wire around it around the bottom, or some
sort of aluminum or something sheeting to keep the beaver
and or porcupine from non on that thing.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, and I would guess you'd want to wear work
gloves because the salt from the sweat and your hands
is just going to attract them to that chicken wire.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, they eat. They're nocturnal, so they're mainly doing this
stuff at night. They're patrolling around, they're defending their areas
that they feed.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
I saw both. I saw that they're territorial. I saw
that they're also not territorial.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, it probably depends with you know, so many different species,
because they will travel outside their home range if they
want to get a mate or if they need that salt.
They're usually they're fairly solo flyers, although sometimes you'll see
a couple of them. They may be mated, they may
be siblings. I don't think we mentioned that the Old
(20:30):
World porcupines are actually really good swimmers.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Both of them are, from what I understand.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Oh really m hmm, okay.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah, and New World will actually go swim out to
gather aquatic plants. They swim more than the Old World does.
But they just swim to collect plants and then they
bring it back to the shore to eat.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Yeah, and they're they're living in they don't. They'll like
sleep in trees sometimes the climbers will, but it seems
like they make use of other animals dens when they're
not around and they have left, Like they'll go to
an ardvark den that has been abandoned or a hole
and they will change it around, maybe knock down some walls,
(21:11):
open up that floor plan. Yeah, so to island in
the kitchen, Yeah, of course, gotta have the big island. Sure,
And then you know they'll just adapt it to their
needs because obviously they're a little puffier than the ardvark.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, and in doing so, Chuck, a question that I
kept running up against was what role did porcupines play
in the ecosystem? And they think that one of the
big roles they play is by basically disturbing stuff. They
disturb the soil when they're digging and burrowing and everything
so interesting. And they found that they the through that
they propagate way more seeds than would otherwise be propagated
(21:50):
if they weren't around. So forests are much more diverse
with them in it than without them because of all
of their scratching and moving and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yeah, and it seems like for rodents they live a
long time. They can live in the wild. I mean,
I sort of saw a wild range anywhere from I
did two three to five years in the wild to
like ten years in the wild. I saw one that
lived to be eighteen. I saw the record was twenty five,
which I think was second only to a beaver as
(22:22):
far as the rodent record. I think there was a
twenty eight year old beaver.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Once I saw one in Brazil was can live up
to twenty seven years in captivity. Oh wow, yeah, so
that's I mean, that's long lived. But yeah, I saw
three to five years too. I guess it just depends
on the species, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah. And the other thing about their feeding habits is
they eat seasonally. They're little hipsters. They eat seasonally and locally,
So depending on what's there, they will I think in
the winter they'll eat more evergreen needles and the like
sort of the inner bark of the trees and stuff
like that. And then you know, when those sweet berries
(23:02):
come around or when that corn crop is coming in,
just look.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Out, then they turn back into generalists.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
So I feel like we cannot go any further, can't
dance around the fact that porcupines copulate, and when they
do copulate, they produce offspring, and we should talk about that.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah, should we break or should we do this and
then break?
Speaker 1 (23:30):
I feel like we're gonna need to take a break
after this. Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
So porcupines have stabby quills.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
That's that point backwards.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
That's right. And if you know how a rodent and
a mammal like this would have sex, it is from
something a male approaching the female from the rear right
where those things are pointing, and so you think, how
do they do this? What happens is the males are
gonna they're gonna vie for the female. Like so many animals,
(24:03):
they have these sort of noisy battles, and they whine
and they stomp when they win and stomp their tail
and try to impress the lady, puff their quills out.
And if the lady says, all right, I think you
might be a good match for me, what does he do?
Speaker 1 (24:20):
He sprays urine all over her. That's right, and she goes,
She goes, that was wonderful. Let's go, big boy.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, I'm gonna put I'm gonna lay down my quills.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, and move the tail to the side.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
It's business time, right, Yeah, because the jail is barbed.
I don't think we said that either.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
No, but like all the quills are barbed, right.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Well, no, I think the actual tail is barbed.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Oh, good lord as well.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Which can help with the climbing and stuff.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Right, So I think it would take being sprayed with
your end. You would want to reach that level of
commitment to make sure that you could trust that that
barbed is going to be kept to the side. Will
we really are we in, right, and then yes, that
that definitely says yes, you're in. You're in. Get it. Yep,
I told you we would need a break. Let's take one,
(25:13):
shall we.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
All right, and we'll talk about uh, we'll talk about
porcupets right after this.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
So, Chuck, the porcupines have copulated. They were successful, and
the female has now just stated for two hundred and
five to two hundred and seventeen days.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, and what did you say?
Speaker 1 (25:47):
We're just born porcupets like he tte s.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah, not pets is in something you keep. But yeah,
little porcupets.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Like like the fifties singing group girl version of the.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Porcupines, Randy Porcupine and the porcupts right exactly. Yeah. And
here's where it got a little confusing, because I saw
different stuff depending on where I looked, and again it
maybe according to species. I saw that they rarely have
more than one at a time. I also saw that
(26:21):
sometimes they have up to four, but let's just say
between one and four per litter. And they stay with
their their mommies for a little longer than what I found.
It says, and I think from the San Diego Zoo
just a few months. But I also saw anywhere from
twelve to twenty four months, and they at least need
(26:43):
that mother's milk for like six months.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
And I think it really depends on the species. Like
I saw those the largest ones, the cape porcupine, they
actually stay in family units of a mom and a
dad in one to two kids.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Oh interesting, and the dad's usually out of there with
a porky right right.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
So yeah, especially with North American porcupines, I feel like
a lot because we're in America, A lot of the
info we got was for North American porcupines and people
just called it porcupines, which required a lot more digging.
But I feel like with North American porcupines, it's like, hey,
good luck with the kids. And then the mom has
(27:21):
the kid and it's like, hey, I'm weaning you. Good
luck with the rest of your life. And then they
live this kind of solitary, happy existence, digging around and
eating tree bark.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah. And if you think the porcupet as soft and
cute as you would imagine, you were correct. Those needle
like quills start to stiffen up very quickly, but it
takes it kind of starts three or four days later,
and then I imagine takes a little while to reach
full you know, kind of hard quill version.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah. And I saw conflicting information too. I saw that
they were born precocious, where they had a full set
of teeth, their eyes were open, and then it just
took a few hours for their quills to harden end
of like adult quillage. That was even take two chuck, Yes,
adult quillage. Thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah. Also their eyes were closed.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
For a long time. Yeah. Yeah, So I don't know,
it's possible it's different species. It's also possible the San
Diego Zoo just got a bunch of stuff wrong.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Well, that's always possible. Great zoo, I've been there. I
know we did an episode on zoos and whether or
not they were ethical, so you can go make up
your own mind about that.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
But and then where Jack Hannah hailed from, wasn't he
a San Diego Zoo?
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Guy, I feel like that's probably true.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Let's just say it is.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
I got something else on these quills. They have an anti.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Wait a minute, I thought we were done with quillo.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Said no, no, never done with quills. Okay, they have an
antiseptic quality, apparently in case of self stavage.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
That's awesome. I hadn't seen that actually, and I think
we should say too. Just one more thing about quills.
I'm breaking my own rules here because they're like modified hair.
They grow back when they're shed. They are constantly shedding
and growing quills.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yeah, and like I said, you should not approach one
in the wild. But they make harry rabies. But other
than that, they don't really carry any other diseases, which
we need.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
To worry them. Yeah, Like if you wanted to love
porcupines anymore, there you go, Like you could snuggle one
and you don't have to worry about any diseases.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yes, but don't eat them like they do. In some
parts of the world they are in pretty good shape.
But they have been exterminated in certain parts of Africa
because they do eat root crops, so they're a nuisance pests,
so they get rid of them. People can collect you
like that. They can collect the quills for ornamentation. And
(29:51):
I think there's a couple of them that are listed
as vulnerable and very sadly of course, because their habitat
is being lost.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yes, bug. Globally, porcupines are under they're considered of least concern,
which itself is concerning because they're considered pests in a
lot of places, so they're eradicated. I think it was
the Maryland DNR that Do Not Resuscitate Agency said that
on their site that porcupines used to be in the
(30:23):
southeastern United States but they were eradicated. I didn't know that,
and I've never heard that, and I couldn't find it
anywhere else. But I don't know why the DNR would
make that up.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I'm trying to think if I've ever seen one in
the wild.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
They do not live in the Southeast. But the Maryland
DNR is saying, like.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
I've traveled all over the world. I'm not saying in
my backyard.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Oh, I got you. Well, we were talking about the Southeast.
You can imagine why I fell for that one.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
No, I'm just trying to think of I've seen one
like camping out west or anything. I know I've ever
seen one.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
I never have. I would think you would definitely remember
seeing a porcupine in real life.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Probably armadillos everywhere, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Everywhere, And you know they carry Hanson's disease, so don't
get close to them. Porcupines don't carry any communicable diseases
that humans are concerned about, except rabies. Yeah, they can
be rabbid, but all mammals can be rabbid, you.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Know, So should we talk about what happens? You know,
if you just google porcupine and dog, you're gonna get
a lot of very sad pictures of curious dogs who
stuck their snout where they shouldn't and are barbed all
over the nose and snout. Not good.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
No, And there's a lot of things that you want
to do and don't want to do. Yeah, if that
happens to your dog, because it's actually really bad if
that happens. So if your dog is if you ever
see a porcupine on a hike with your dog, get
your dog away from that porcupine, not just for the
porcupine's sake, Like if a porcupine goes into a defensive
(32:00):
it's scared to death. It's not. It might seem all
tough and angry. It's scared. That's why it's doing that,
But also it could really mess your dog up. So
for at least your dog's sake, get your dog away
from the porcupine. And if you fail to do that
quickly enough and your dog does take some quills in
its face and its neck wherever those things can because
(32:23):
especially in the New World porcupine that their quills have barbs,
they can migrate further and further inward. They're not going
to work themselves out, they're going to actually work themselves in.
So you want to take your dog to a vet,
Like your dog gets quilled, you get in the car,
you go to the vet. That's the order of how
everything happens. You don't stop and get a double cheeseburger.
(32:44):
You don't like go home and like read the paper first, Like,
you go straight to the vet because your dog's gonna
need to go under general anesthesia to have those things removed.
That's how bad of a jam it is.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, I'm actually going to amend that with your permission,
because what the first thing you should do, and hopefully
you're with someone else if you've got it. Really it
would be great if you have two people in on this,
one one to drive and one to keep your dog
from messing with their face. Yeah, that's a big one,
because they're gonna if there's quills poking in a dog's face,
(33:18):
they're gonna paw at it. They're going to try and
rub their nose on the ground, and that is bad, bad, bad,
bad bad, because those quills are just going to go
further and further in. So you really really need to
do your best to hold onto your dog, hold their
head up, and keep their paws away from their face. Uh.
And like you said, go straight to that vet, because
(33:39):
you don't try and remove them yourself, you're you're only
going to make it worse. And that's like guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
There's also supposedly a myth that if you clip the
porcupine quill it deflates it and makes it easier to
come out. They don't. They're not inflated with air. No,
so clipping it's not going to deflate any is that Aristotle? Yeah,
and it actually can make the quill shatter, because imagine
(34:05):
like a really hard claw or something like that being
clipped with some scissors. It's going to shatter some and
if enough of a piece shutters far enough down, it
can reach the skin level. And then if it works
its way in, all of a sudden, you just made
it that much harder to get out because you just
added a new barb, which is that shattered jagged edge
(34:26):
that used to be intact before you cut it like
a knucklehead.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah. I mean I could see the instinct if you
don't know what's going on, to be to clip them
because if they're really long and sticking out of their
face it looks terrible, or to try and just yank
them out. But to do yeah, don't do either one
of those things. Another big reason why is the risk
of infection is really really big. I mean, they have multiple,
(34:50):
multiple stab wounds essentially, and they, like you said, the
only solution is general anesthesia. I mean it's it's not surgery,
but it's not not surgery.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
No, and they you know, some of these may not
ever be able to come out, and your pets is
going to have a lifetime of being monitored to make
sure they don't migrate toward a joint or an organ
or the back of their eye who knows, or depending
on where they got stabbed with a quill. So I
think it was the ASPCA that said the best way
(35:22):
to deal with this is to prevent it from ever happening.
Just don't let your dog anywhere near a porcupine. It's
just a not worth the risk. Yeah, and don't you're
going to scare the porcupine too.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Yeah, and if you live in porcupine country, don't ever
let your dog out of the house.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
No, as a matter of fact, just keep it wrapped
and bubble wrap at all times.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Toilet train them.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Yeah, or just change the bubble wrap and I'm peeling
the bowl rap.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah. Just have to get tons and tons of bubble wrap.
And then don't throw it away, don't recycle it. Put
it in a huge pile at the end of each
season in your front yard and melt it with a blowtorch.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Yeah, that's great. Maybe mix it with acidtone first. Yes,
I've got two more porcupine facts if you will indulge me.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Let's hear it.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
You got anything else?
Speaker 2 (36:11):
I got nothing else.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
In the seventies, the seventies in the UK was a
swing in time for porcupines, apparently because there was a
population of Himalayan porcupines crested I believe in South Devon
in the wild, because they'd escaped from the zoo sometime
in the seventies and lived on the lamb for a decade.
(36:34):
And the same thing happened in Staffordshire with a kind
of crested porcupine where they had a wild population because
they escaped from the zoo too.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Is that near Stoke on Trent?
Speaker 1 (36:46):
No, no, no, we'll have to ask Tom. All right, if
that's near Stoke on Trent, all right, you got anything
else again?
Speaker 2 (36:52):
I got nothing else?
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Okay, Well let's say for porcupines. Everybody go watch Teddy
Bear videos. You're gonna love them. And since I said
teddy Bear, it's time for a listener.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Mail Man, I can't wait to turn up the volume
on this.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
You're it's gonna knock your socks right off.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
I do this. Teddy Bear is probably on an Instagram,
I would imagine, but I do follow that groundhog on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Oh I Chunk, I think I know. I think I
know who you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Yeah, Chunk the Groundhog. It's good stuff. Yeah, all right,
so here we go. This is from Oh, this is
from Don the Black Cowboy. Did you see this one?
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Oh? Yeah, this is great.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
It's fantastic. We did a short stuff on black cowboys
in history and how they have long been overlooked. So
for some weird reason, you don't listen to short stuffs.
You should. Yeah, we never kind of promote that, but
it's just like stuff you should know. But it's shorter.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah, what's your problem? Listen?
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Hey guys. My name is Don and I'm a twenty
five year old black cowboy from Texas. I, along with
my brother, am also a second generation amateur farrier as well.
My father taught us after learning the trade growing up
on our family farm, then later going into horse shoeing
as a side career. When I saw your episode about blacksmithing,
I was eager to hear if you mentioned farriers in
(38:13):
it and thought I might finally write in. Then when
you came out with a black cowboy episode, all of
my friends shared the episode with me, so I knew
I had to write. As a kid, our family did
trail rides, rodeos, and horse races nearly every weekend. Since
leaving my hometown for college and beyond, I've often been
the first introduction to black cowboys slash farmers. For most people,
(38:36):
there's a large community of black cowboys and farmers still surviving,
regardless of the systemic issues we face. Whenever it's safe again,
I'd like to invite anyone hearing this out to our
annual trail ride Easter weekend to get a chance to
experience the lifestyle. Isn't that cool, dude, I so want
to do this.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
So we sent a flyer too, and it looks super interesting.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
It does. It looks awesome.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah. So they hold it over Easter weekend and you
just basically go live the cowboy life for a weekend.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
And it's like ten bucks or something like that too.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Yeah, it's not like some city slicker scam.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
No, Don doesn't stick it to you, Don, I'll give
it to you straight.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
That's right, Kimbox, straight shooter, he says. Love. The podcast
really helped keep me company these last few years in
the Peace Corps. So Don is my new most interesting
man in the world. I think he is.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
One of the more well rounded Stuff you Should Know
listeners we've heard from in a while.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah, and he says, ps, yes, I did ride my
horse to school. That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Yeah. Well thanks a lot, Don, Hats off to you
ten gallon hat even literally thank you for the invite.
We may see you one of these Easter weekends and
your trail ride. And if you want to get in
touch with us, you can send us an email too
to Stuff Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
It was a dark and stormy night just like this one.
Exactly four years ago today minus four days that we
released the porcupine episode. Oh sorry, Halloween's almost upon us,
and I guess the spirit of the season got in me.
(00:23):
At any rate. Here's our porcupine episode. We're proud of
all of our animal episodes, but this one in particular
really takes the cake. So enjoy it with some cake.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and
there's Charles w Chuck Bryan over there, and this is
stuff you should know about porcupines, which this is a
great idea. Chuck, good job.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
You know, the pine when you take away all those quills,
is just a cute little guinea pig.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Basically a giant one.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yeah, a cute big guinea pig.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Speaking of cute porcupines, Dude, do you remember Teddy Bear
the porcupine kind of went a little viral a few
years ago. No, you have to watch Teddy Bear the Porcupine,
specifically Teddy Bear the Porcupine doesn't like to share on YouTube,
and it is this porcupine eating corn on the cob
(01:33):
and making all these sounds like cousin it and it
is one of the cutest things I've ever seen in
my entire life.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yeah, we want to shout out Live Science, Smithsonian, Mental Floss,
the San Diego Zoo, and a couple of other websites
that I coupled together this wonderful bit on one of
our wonderful animal friends in the world. We'd love to
do these shows. It just made me think, have you
seen the octopus documentary thing yet?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
No? I haven't. I've been like kind of popping up
in my in my periphery, but I don't really know
what it is. Is it just about OCTOPI.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Well, it's it's called My Octopus Teacher. I haven't seen
it yet, but I just know that the dealer, this
guy kind of gets to know one octopus and that's right.
You know, A nice story ensues, is all I know.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
That's neat. We'll have to watch that.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, I can't. I can't wait. But and I mentioned
that because you know, we've long said that the octopus
is our favorite animal. But I feel like almost every
time we've done one on an animal, it's on something
that we love, and boy do I love the quill pig.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I do too. Yeah, apparently that's what the their Latin
name means, quill pig.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
That's great, That is fantastic. And it turns out, Chuck,
that there are basically two groups that porcupines get lumped into.
There's a bunch of different GENI yeah, that's right, and speace.
But they basically fall under two categories. It's Old World,
which is Europe, Africa, Asia, and the New World, which
(03:08):
is North, South, and Central America. And if you saw
a you know, porcupine in South America and you saw
one in you know, the Himalayas, you probably would be like,
that's porcupine. That's porcupine too. They're not radically different like
some Old World and New World's animals are.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah. But something I saw that was interesting was that
they evolved separately what one of those what is it
called co evolutions or whatever.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
No, I didn't see that. That's that is crazy.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I saw that, and I only saw it in one place, so.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
I think that might have been a personal hypothesis of
somebody who got them, maybe website.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
I saw it somewhere though, and then that the two
actually the Old World in the New World have less
in common then they do individually with like some other
rodents in their area.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, so I'm actually not surprised to hear that. But
the one thing that they do have in common across
the board is that they have quills, and that they
use their quills defensively. Now what their quills look like,
how they use their quills. There's a lot of other
distinctions and differences between Old World and New World, but
they all have quills. They're all porcupines. That seems to
(04:28):
be the thing that binds them. It's the tie that
binds that family.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, And it's just it's easy to take the porcupine
for granted, I think, and just say, yeah, the little
animal with all those quills. But when you take a
step back and look at it and think about the
evolution of the porcupine that, like I said, it sort
of would be a very large, sort of cute, little
fluffy guinea pig, but it probably got eaten a lot.
(04:57):
And then you know, they said nuts to this nature
steps in It is like, all right, how about this.
What if we were just animal pincushions such that if
you came anywhere near us, you would be stabbed repeatedly
if you tried to eat us, Like, It's one of
the most amazing evolutionary adaptations I've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, And I mean they can really use those things too.
There's a long standing myth that they can shoot them,
which is not true, but apparently even Aristotle fell for
that one, and what a dummy. But they can use
them in some pretty interesting ways. And you hit the
nail on the head when you said, you know, step
back if you see a porcupine. That is good advice.
(05:40):
You should probably step back because depending on the species
or whether it's an Old world or New world, those
quills can mess you up pretty good.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah. But also you know, get nearby and take a look,
like they're not going to come after you. The porcupine
is a very kind hearted animal. Yeah, and those are
one hundred percent for defense. A porcupine is never going
to charge you, and you know, leap at your belly
to put quills all in your stomach. So take a
(06:10):
little look, admire it for what it is. I think,
you know, to talk about porcupines, a lot of this
is talking about the old world versus the rush version.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yeah. So the big differences that I saw and there's
lots of differences between different species within each of these groups,
but the Old World versus New World have some big
differences between them, and one of them is that Old
World are typically terrestrial porcupines. They spend most of their
lives on the ground. They live in burrows or caves
(06:43):
or rock dens, and New World porcupines they live on
the ground too, they live in burrows, but they're also
very capable of climbing trees, and they'll spend a significant
amount of time and sometimes nests in trees. And there
are some species that spend virtually their whole lies in trees,
almost like sloths.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, quill wise, the New World porcupines quills are going
to be shorter and smaller in general. I think they're
about four to ten four inches ten centimeters. The Old
World dudes and ladies they can get very long. They
can have quills up to twenty inches long. They can
(07:22):
be marked with black and white bands. And what they
can do is these Old World guys can puff them
up so they stand up and are more intimidating and look. Also,
I mean it's weird because it's like multifold, like four
or five different things they do. By doing this, they
look larger, so that's always something that vulnerable animals try
(07:44):
to do in the wild. They look like a skunk
a little bit because of the black and white marking
down their back.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
They actually have a defensive musk kind of like a skunk,
which is not nearly as bad.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah, so they try to imitate a skunk a little bit.
They look bigger, They rattle, They can shake those things
and rattle them, which is another great adaptation to say
like get away from me, don't try and eat me.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And supposedly that works pretty well too.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Yeah, totally. And then if all else fails, they are stabby.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
They are stabby. So sometimes the old world ones will
actually charge backwards toward a predator if they're feeling like
they want to stand their ground, and that's usually when
they're caught out in the open. If they have a
place to hide, they'll stick their head in that place
to hide and then puff out their quills and make
themselves hard to get at. But if they're out in
(08:39):
the open, they may decide that they're going to fight
off this predator and they'll charge backward. And one other
adaptation I saw, which I thought was awesome. They'll have
the predator chase it, and then they'll stop all of
a sudden, and the predator will run into them in
their quills for real.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
And then you hear the sound effect.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Yeah, exactly, and then it's too late.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because those quills, even though
they puff them out, they are pointed generally in the
reverse direction, right, which you know, which is why they
have to back up into something to quill them or
like you said, bury them, just throwing that parking break
real quick, and all of a sudden, that fox has
got a face full of quill, right.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
So that Old World contains a couple of species that
are called crested porcupines, and they basically look like if
the quills were like an umbrella. It opens at the
back of their head, yeah, and just kind of sticks
out like that, and like you said, it makes them
look a lot bigger. They're a lot more dangerous. The
(09:42):
big difference with quills between the Old World and the
New World, in addition to being shorter, is Old World
porcupines are covered in quills. That's all they have. They're
like they have like I don't know if we said
or not, but quills are just modified hair. They're made
a carratin. They're just like hair. They're just way stabbier
than hair that you and I have.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Well, it's like hair Mead's fingernails basically.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, that's a great way to put it. And Old
World porcupines, that's all they have are quills. New World
porcupines have quills that are also mixed in with fur
like an undercoat, longer hairs, and their quills kind of
stand up and are used for defense. That's not just
it's not all that they have. And the other thing
(10:26):
about their quills is that they have little barbs, and
New World porcupines barbs make their New World quills way
more dangerous than Old World quills.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah, it's like little fish hook basically, and it'll instead
of just poking right into you, it'll actually snag in
your flesh and makes it, like you said, way way
tougher to get out, a much harder time removing a
New World quill than an Old World quill. Right, But
those New World guys are because their quills start further back.
(11:00):
You get the feeling if you just and I wouldn't
recommend this, but if you just go very gently and
just say, hey, little guy, no do that. I just
I just want to give you a stretch under the
under the chin, and I think you might enjoy it.
And I'm gonna move very slowly. Just don't turn around,
and you'll you'll have a really good time.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I'd like to include a disclaimer here, don't do it.
You guys should not listen to Chuck right now. He's
doling out some really terrible advice.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, it's just because those quills start further back. They
got that cute little head and face, and it just
makes you want to give him a scritch.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah, no, totally. Like if you watch Teddy Teddy Bear
videos Teddy Bear the Porcupine, you will want to go
get one as a pet. There's another one I saw
called Diva, and she's a baby porcupine. She's adorable. Yeah,
you totally want to do that, and I'm sure there
are ways to handle them. But I also saw, you know,
one of those zoo guys on a late night talk
(11:57):
show and he had I think an African crested porcupine
on his lap and that thing was not at all
worried or scared or in any sort of defense mode.
And that dude was in pain just letting this thing
sit on his lap because I don't know. You said,
you know, they look like guinea pigs, and I said,
overgrown guinea pigs. Some of these things can get really big.
There's a cape porcupine. I think it's the biggest one.
(12:20):
They get up to like sixty five pounds. Sixty five pounds,
it's like a large dog. Yeah, and with quills though, uh,
with the quills puffed up, No, like they're sixty five
pounds year round. And then but imagine a sixty five
pound dog with those quills. That's dangerous.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, what I meant. I know they don't actually weigh
more when they puff up, but they can. When they
puff those quills out, they can look two to three
times their size. So right, yeah, yeah, I imagine that
thing looks enormous. And actually I don't do this much,
but I'm watching that thing eat that corn on the
cop right now.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Isn't that adorable?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah? I have to have the sound down, so I'm
gonna go back and watch it.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
You have to hear this, like the sound does it?
But even without the sound, he's just awfully cute. Huh.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah, it kind of They kind of look like Beaver's
a little bit too, and they are related as fellow rodents. Here.
I think we should take a break. I'm getting kind
of worked up here, and we'll come back and talk
more about these cute little stabby suckers right after this.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Okay, Charles, we're back, and we've been talking mostly about quills.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, so one more thing about quills, and there's gonna
be more than one more thing about quills, let's be honest.
But we said they couldn't shoot him. What they can do?
These things do fall out just like hair, and they
grow just like fingernails and will eventually fall so when
they shake, they if they have loose quills, they can
fly off. But they're still not like shooting, like Aristotle said,
(14:06):
like deadly needle darts.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
No, but they can be problematic, like these things can
puncture the sidewalls of tires. I was reading the blog
of some tire company ka L Tires, I think up
in the Yukon, and they said that it's actually it
can be a problem if you run over one, like
on some roads. Yeah that if you're out in the
middle of nowhere and you run over a porcupine quill
(14:30):
you're you're probably going to get a flat that's how
tough those things are.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Well, that's sad.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
What for your tire? No for the afternoon? Well, no,
you're not running over Are you still watching Teddy Bear videos?
Speaker 2 (14:44):
No? I thought you said if you run over a porcupine,
it can porcupine quill? Oh well, I mean what is it?
Just a loose quill on the road.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, exactly, That's what I'm saying. Like, just a loose
quill laying on the road. If you run over it
goes into your sidewall, You're probably going to get a
flat tire. That's how tough those things are.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Okay, I thought you. And if you actually run over
a porcupine and you have like a bunch of quills, that.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Would probably do it too, especially if the porcupine was
in a defensive procedure. But the porcupine doesn't have to
die in this case for you to give a flat tire.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
So regardless of that sadness they there is sadness in that,
despite this great adaptation and this great defense mechanism, they
still can be hunted. Lions can still hunt them human people.
There's the bush meat trade for the Old World porcupines
that is, you know, just you know what that means,
(15:33):
and they're you know, there are owls, wolverines, pythons. There's
something called a fissure that looks sort of like a weasel, bear,
fox or something. Did you look that thing up?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, I think it's related to otters and weasels.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Okay, but it had a little sort of a bear face.
It was interesting.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
But apparently stink too.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Well. They stink in more ways than one because they
learned to flip these porcupines over where they had that
soft belly meat and no quills as a way to
attack them, which really makes me mad.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, I don't. I don't like fishes for that reason either.
I'd never heard of them until recently, until we started
researching this, I had neither. I don't like them. No,
I just don't like them. Eat something else, Yeah, leave
the porcupines alone, because they're actually pretty nice.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Yeah, and they don't eat what do they eat? They
eat vegetables and fruits and berries and nuts and tubers
and roots.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yeah, so they eat all those things. They'll also eat crops,
which is Porcupines are considered a nuisance, especially if you're
a farmer or even a gardener in the suburbs, because
they will eat your root vegetables. They will eat corn,
love corn, apparently. But they'll also they have another thing too,
(16:50):
where they need sodium in their diet. They acted they
need a pretty even ratio of one to one of
potassium to sodium for their electrical conductivity in their body
to work. But they don't give much sodium in their diet.
Plants have lots of potassium, not much sodium, so they
have to go find it elsewhere. And it turns out
(17:12):
we humans have a lot of stuff that has sodium
in it. Apparently plywood glue contains a lot of sodium,
so they love eating wood. Structures we build out of plywood.
The salt that we put on the roads gets kicked
up on the underside of our car, so you might
find a porcupine chewing on the tires or the hoses
(17:34):
or belts or wires under your car.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, what else that they would even because the humans
sweat so much salt when they're working that they'll go Like,
if you have some wooden pruners in your shed, they'll
go in there and they'll start eating the handle of
your pruners because it just has residual human salt left
over on it.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Right, you just walk in, You're like, are you nuts?
What is wrong with you? You?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Porcupine just set up a salt like for those fellas.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, well they'll find anywhere they can find a natural salt, like,
they'll definitely eat that too. But yes, anything that has
human sweat on, even trace amounts of human sweat, they'll
go bonkers. Like they eat oars, paddles, that kind of stuff.
But yes, typically they eat leaves, stems, they eat shoots
and leaves. They also, though, and this is another reason
(18:26):
why they're considered a nuisance, they eat the bark off
of the tree. So they're considered generalists. They'll eat just
about any kind of vegetation, which is actually and they're
also super adaptable, which is why you'll find porcupines almost
anywhere there's vegetation. But they'll that's what they eat, you know,
in spring, summer, fall, and then in winter. They don't hibernate,
(18:48):
which actually makes them kind of unusual as well. But
they go from being generalists to what's known as faculative specialists,
meaning their diet becomes very limited to just one or
two types of trees. And not just one or two
types of trees. During the winter, they may just feed
on the inner bark of one tree, and that can
(19:11):
be problematic because the inner bark is where nutrients and
water moves from the roots to the rest of the tree.
And if that porcupine eats all the way around it,
what's called girdling a tree, it can kill or seriously
damage that tree.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah. So I I mean, if you have a problem,
if you live in the woods and stuff and you
see a tree, it could be a beaver, but either way,
you kind of handle it the same. You can wrap
like chicken wire around it around the bottom, or some
sort of aluminum or something sheeting to keep the beaver
and or porcupine from non on that thing.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, and I would guess you'd want to wear work
gloves because the salt from the sweat and your hands
is just going to attract them to that chicken wire.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, they eat. They're nocturnal, so they're mainly doing this
stuff at night. They're patrolling around, they're defending their areas
that they feed.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
I saw both. I saw that they're territorial. I saw
that they're also not territorial.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah, it probably depends with you know, so many different species,
because they will travel outside their home range if they
want to get a mate or if they need that salt.
They're usually they're fairly solo flyers, although sometimes you'll see
a couple of them. They may be mated, they may
be siblings. I don't think we mentioned that the Old
(20:30):
World porcupines are actually really good swimmers.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Both of them are, from what I understand.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Oh really m hmm, okay.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Yeah, and New World will actually go swim out to
gather aquatic plants. They swim more than the Old World does.
But they just swim to collect plants and then they
bring it back to the shore to eat.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Yeah, and they're they're living in they don't. They'll like
sleep in trees sometimes the climbers will, but it seems
like they make use of other animals dens when they're
not around and they have left, Like they'll go to
an ardvark den that has been abandoned or a hole
and they will change it around, maybe knock down some walls,
(21:11):
open up that floor plan. Yeah, so to island in
the kitchen, Yeah, of course, gotta have the big island. Sure,
And then you know they'll just adapt it to their
needs because obviously they're a little puffier than the ardvark.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Yeah, and in doing so, Chuck, a question that I
kept running up against was what role did porcupines play
in the ecosystem? And they think that one of the
big roles they play is by basically disturbing stuff. They
disturb the soil when they're digging and burrowing and everything
so interesting. And they found that they the through that
they propagate way more seeds than would otherwise be propagated
(21:50):
if they weren't around. So forests are much more diverse
with them in it than without them because of all
of their scratching and moving and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yeah, and it seems like for rodents they live a
long time. They can live in the wild. I mean,
I sort of saw a wild range anywhere from I
did two three to five years in the wild to
like ten years in the wild. I saw one that
lived to be eighteen. I saw the record was twenty five,
which I think was second only to a beaver as
(22:22):
far as the rodent record. I think there was a
twenty eight year old beaver.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Once I saw one in Brazil was can live up
to twenty seven years in captivity. Oh wow, yeah, so
that's I mean, that's long lived. But yeah, I saw
three to five years too. I guess it just depends
on the species, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah. And the other thing about their feeding habits is
they eat seasonally. They're little hipsters. They eat seasonally and locally,
So depending on what's there, they will I think in
the winter they'll eat more evergreen needles and the like
sort of the inner bark of the trees and stuff
like that. And then you know, when those sweet berries
(23:02):
come around or when that corn crop is coming in,
just look.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Out, then they turn back into generalists.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
So I feel like we cannot go any further, can't
dance around the fact that porcupines copulate, and when they
do copulate, they produce offspring, and we should talk about that.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah, should we break or should we do this and
then break?
Speaker 1 (23:30):
I feel like we're gonna need to take a break
after this. Okay.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
So porcupines have stabby quills.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
That's that point backwards.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
That's right. And if you know how a rodent and
a mammal like this would have sex, it is from
something a male approaching the female from the rear right
where those things are pointing, and so you think, how
do they do this? What happens is the males are
gonna they're gonna vie for the female. Like so many animals,
(24:03):
they have these sort of noisy battles, and they whine
and they stomp when they win and stomp their tail
and try to impress the lady, puff their quills out.
And if the lady says, all right, I think you
might be a good match for me, what does he do?
Speaker 1 (24:20):
He sprays urine all over her. That's right, and she goes,
She goes, that was wonderful. Let's go, big boy.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Yeah, I'm gonna put I'm gonna lay down my quills.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, and move the tail to the side.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
It's business time, right, Yeah, because the jail is barbed.
I don't think we said that either.
Speaker 1 (24:42):
No, but like all the quills are barbed, right.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Well, no, I think the actual tail is barbed.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Oh, good lord as well.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Which can help with the climbing and stuff.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Right, So I think it would take being sprayed with
your end. You would want to reach that level of
commitment to make sure that you could trust that that
barbed is going to be kept to the side. Will
we really are we in, right, and then yes, that
that definitely says yes, you're in. You're in. Get it. Yep,
I told you we would need a break. Let's take one,
(25:13):
shall we.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
All right, and we'll talk about uh, we'll talk about
porcupets right after this.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
So, Chuck, the porcupines have copulated. They were successful, and
the female has now just stated for two hundred and
five to two hundred and seventeen days.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, and what did you say?
Speaker 1 (25:47):
We're just born porcupets like he tte s.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Yeah, not pets is in something you keep. But yeah,
little porcupets.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Like like the fifties singing group girl version of the.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Porcupines, Randy Porcupine and the porcupts right exactly. Yeah. And
here's where it got a little confusing, because I saw
different stuff depending on where I looked, and again it
maybe according to species. I saw that they rarely have
more than one at a time. I also saw that
(26:21):
sometimes they have up to four, but let's just say
between one and four per litter. And they stay with
their their mommies for a little longer than what I found.
It says, and I think from the San Diego Zoo
just a few months. But I also saw anywhere from
twelve to twenty four months, and they at least need
(26:43):
that mother's milk for like six months.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
And I think it really depends on the species. Like
I saw those the largest ones, the cape porcupine, they
actually stay in family units of a mom and a
dad in one to two kids.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Oh interesting, and the dad's usually out of there with
a porky right right.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
So yeah, especially with North American porcupines, I feel like
a lot because we're in America, A lot of the
info we got was for North American porcupines and people
just called it porcupines, which required a lot more digging.
But I feel like with North American porcupines, it's like, hey,
good luck with the kids. And then the mom has
(27:21):
the kid and it's like, hey, I'm weaning you. Good
luck with the rest of your life. And then they
live this kind of solitary, happy existence, digging around and
eating tree bark.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yeah. And if you think the porcupet as soft and
cute as you would imagine, you were correct. Those needle
like quills start to stiffen up very quickly, but it
takes it kind of starts three or four days later,
and then I imagine takes a little while to reach
full you know, kind of hard quill version.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah. And I saw conflicting information too. I saw that
they were born precocious, where they had a full set
of teeth, their eyes were open, and then it just
took a few hours for their quills to harden end
of like adult quillage. That was even take two chuck, Yes,
adult quillage. Thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah. Also their eyes were closed.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
For a long time. Yeah. Yeah, So I don't know,
it's possible it's different species. It's also possible the San
Diego Zoo just got a bunch of stuff wrong.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Well, that's always possible. Great zoo, I've been there. I
know we did an episode on zoos and whether or
not they were ethical, so you can go make up
your own mind about that.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
But and then where Jack Hannah hailed from, wasn't he
a San Diego Zoo?
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Guy, I feel like that's probably true.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Let's just say it is.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
I got something else on these quills. They have an anti.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Wait a minute, I thought we were done with quillo.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Said no, no, never done with quills. Okay, they have an
antiseptic quality, apparently in case of self stavage.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
That's awesome. I hadn't seen that actually, and I think
we should say too. Just one more thing about quills.
I'm breaking my own rules here because they're like modified hair.
They grow back when they're shed. They are constantly shedding
and growing quills.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yeah, and like I said, you should not approach one
in the wild. But they make harry rabies. But other
than that, they don't really carry any other diseases, which
we need.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
To worry them. Yeah, Like if you wanted to love
porcupines anymore, there you go, Like you could snuggle one
and you don't have to worry about any diseases.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yes, but don't eat them like they do. In some
parts of the world they are in pretty good shape.
But they have been exterminated in certain parts of Africa
because they do eat root crops, so they're a nuisance pests,
so they get rid of them. People can collect you
like that. They can collect the quills for ornamentation. And
(29:51):
I think there's a couple of them that are listed
as vulnerable and very sadly of course, because their habitat
is being lost.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yes, bug. Globally, porcupines are under they're considered of least concern,
which itself is concerning because they're considered pests in a
lot of places, so they're eradicated. I think it was
the Maryland DNR that Do Not Resuscitate Agency said that
on their site that porcupines used to be in the
(30:23):
southeastern United States but they were eradicated. I didn't know that,
and I've never heard that, and I couldn't find it
anywhere else. But I don't know why the DNR would
make that up.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I'm trying to think if I've ever seen one in
the wild.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
They do not live in the Southeast. But the Maryland
DNR is saying, like.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
I've traveled all over the world. I'm not saying in
my backyard.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Oh, I got you. Well, we were talking about the Southeast.
You can imagine why I fell for that one.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
No, I'm just trying to think of I've seen one
like camping out west or anything. I know I've ever
seen one.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
I never have. I would think you would definitely remember
seeing a porcupine in real life.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Probably armadillos everywhere, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Everywhere, And you know they carry Hanson's disease, so don't
get close to them. Porcupines don't carry any communicable diseases
that humans are concerned about, except rabies. Yeah, they can
be rabbid, but all mammals can be rabbid, you.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Know, So should we talk about what happens? You know,
if you just google porcupine and dog, you're gonna get
a lot of very sad pictures of curious dogs who
stuck their snout where they shouldn't and are barbed all
over the nose and snout. Not good.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
No, And there's a lot of things that you want
to do and don't want to do. Yeah, if that
happens to your dog, because it's actually really bad if
that happens. So if your dog is if you ever
see a porcupine on a hike with your dog, get
your dog away from that porcupine, not just for the
porcupine's sake, Like if a porcupine goes into a defensive
(32:00):
it's scared to death. It's not. It might seem all
tough and angry. It's scared. That's why it's doing that,
But also it could really mess your dog up. So
for at least your dog's sake, get your dog away
from the porcupine. And if you fail to do that
quickly enough and your dog does take some quills in
its face and its neck wherever those things can because
(32:23):
especially in the New World porcupine that their quills have barbs,
they can migrate further and further inward. They're not going
to work themselves out, they're going to actually work themselves in.
So you want to take your dog to a vet,
Like your dog gets quilled, you get in the car,
you go to the vet. That's the order of how
everything happens. You don't stop and get a double cheeseburger.
(32:44):
You don't like go home and like read the paper first, Like,
you go straight to the vet because your dog's gonna
need to go under general anesthesia to have those things removed.
That's how bad of a jam it is.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, I'm actually going to amend that with your permission,
because what the first thing you should do, and hopefully
you're with someone else if you've got it. Really it
would be great if you have two people in on this,
one one to drive and one to keep your dog
from messing with their face. Yeah, that's a big one,
because they're gonna if there's quills poking in a dog's face,
(33:18):
they're gonna paw at it. They're going to try and
rub their nose on the ground, and that is bad, bad, bad,
bad bad, because those quills are just going to go
further and further in. So you really really need to
do your best to hold onto your dog, hold their
head up, and keep their paws away from their face. Uh.
And like you said, go straight to that vet, because
(33:39):
you don't try and remove them yourself, you're you're only
going to make it worse. And that's like guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
There's also supposedly a myth that if you clip the
porcupine quill it deflates it and makes it easier to
come out. They don't. They're not inflated with air. No,
so clipping it's not going to deflate any is that Aristotle? Yeah,
and it actually can make the quill shatter, because imagine
(34:05):
like a really hard claw or something like that being
clipped with some scissors. It's going to shatter some and
if enough of a piece shutters far enough down, it
can reach the skin level. And then if it works
its way in, all of a sudden, you just made
it that much harder to get out because you just
added a new barb, which is that shattered jagged edge
(34:26):
that used to be intact before you cut it like
a knucklehead.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah. I mean I could see the instinct if you
don't know what's going on, to be to clip them
because if they're really long and sticking out of their
face it looks terrible, or to try and just yank
them out. But to do yeah, don't do either one
of those things. Another big reason why is the risk
of infection is really really big. I mean, they have multiple,
(34:50):
multiple stab wounds essentially, and they, like you said, the
only solution is general anesthesia. I mean it's it's not surgery,
but it's not not surgery.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
No, and they you know, some of these may not
ever be able to come out, and your pets is
going to have a lifetime of being monitored to make
sure they don't migrate toward a joint or an organ
or the back of their eye who knows, or depending
on where they got stabbed with a quill. So I
think it was the ASPCA that said the best way
(35:22):
to deal with this is to prevent it from ever happening.
Just don't let your dog anywhere near a porcupine. It's
just a not worth the risk. Yeah, and don't you're
going to scare the porcupine too.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Yeah, and if you live in porcupine country, don't ever
let your dog out of the house.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
No, as a matter of fact, just keep it wrapped
and bubble wrap at all times.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Toilet train them.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Yeah, or just change the bubble wrap and I'm peeling
the bowl rap.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah. Just have to get tons and tons of bubble wrap.
And then don't throw it away, don't recycle it. Put
it in a huge pile at the end of each
season in your front yard and melt it with a blowtorch.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Yeah, that's great. Maybe mix it with acidtone first. Yes,
I've got two more porcupine facts if you will indulge me.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Let's hear it.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
You got anything else?
Speaker 2 (36:11):
I got nothing else.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
In the seventies, the seventies in the UK was a
swing in time for porcupines, apparently because there was a
population of Himalayan porcupines crested I believe in South Devon
in the wild, because they'd escaped from the zoo sometime
in the seventies and lived on the lamb for a decade.
(36:34):
And the same thing happened in Staffordshire with a kind
of crested porcupine where they had a wild population because
they escaped from the zoo too.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Is that near Stoke on Trent?
Speaker 1 (36:46):
No, no, no, we'll have to ask Tom. All right, if
that's near Stoke on Trent, all right, you got anything
else again?
Speaker 2 (36:52):
I got nothing else?
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Okay, Well let's say for porcupines. Everybody go watch Teddy
Bear videos. You're gonna love them. And since I said
teddy Bear, it's time for a listener.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Mail Man, I can't wait to turn up the volume
on this.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
You're it's gonna knock your socks right off.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
I do this. Teddy Bear is probably on an Instagram,
I would imagine, but I do follow that groundhog on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Oh I Chunk, I think I know. I think I
know who you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Yeah, Chunk the Groundhog. It's good stuff. Yeah, all right,
so here we go. This is from Oh, this is
from Don the Black Cowboy. Did you see this one?
Speaker 1 (37:32):
Oh? Yeah, this is great.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
It's fantastic. We did a short stuff on black cowboys
in history and how they have long been overlooked. So
for some weird reason, you don't listen to short stuffs.
You should. Yeah, we never kind of promote that, but
it's just like stuff you should know. But it's shorter.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah, what's your problem? Listen?
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Hey guys. My name is Don and I'm a twenty
five year old black cowboy from Texas. I, along with
my brother, am also a second generation amateur farrier as well.
My father taught us after learning the trade growing up
on our family farm, then later going into horse shoeing
as a side career. When I saw your episode about blacksmithing,
I was eager to hear if you mentioned farriers in
(38:13):
it and thought I might finally write in. Then when
you came out with a black cowboy episode, all of
my friends shared the episode with me, so I knew
I had to write. As a kid, our family did
trail rides, rodeos, and horse races nearly every weekend. Since
leaving my hometown for college and beyond, I've often been
the first introduction to black cowboys slash farmers. For most people,
(38:36):
there's a large community of black cowboys and farmers still surviving,
regardless of the systemic issues we face. Whenever it's safe again,
I'd like to invite anyone hearing this out to our
annual trail ride Easter weekend to get a chance to
experience the lifestyle. Isn't that cool, dude, I so want
to do this.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
So we sent a flyer too, and it looks super interesting.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
It does. It looks awesome.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah. So they hold it over Easter weekend and you
just basically go live the cowboy life for a weekend.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
And it's like ten bucks or something like that too.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
Yeah, it's not like some city slicker scam.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
No, Don doesn't stick it to you, Don, I'll give
it to you straight.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
That's right, Kimbox, straight shooter, he says. Love. The podcast
really helped keep me company these last few years in
the Peace Corps. So Don is my new most interesting
man in the world. I think he is.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
One of the more well rounded Stuff you Should Know
listeners we've heard from in a while.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
Yeah, and he says, ps, yes, I did ride my
horse to school. That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
Yeah. Well thanks a lot, Don, Hats off to you
ten gallon hat even literally thank you for the invite.
We may see you one of these Easter weekends and
your trail ride. And if you want to get in
touch with us, you can send us an email too
to Stuff Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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Chuck Bryant
Josh Clark
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