September 30, 2023 • 39 mins
Do you know that up until July 2011 an ambitious hacker with a good software program could deduce your social security number based on your date and place of birth? In this classic episode, the boys examine some of the lesser-known details of the Social Security system in the U.S.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, everybody, it's Charles W. Chuck Bryant here. Why don't
you jump back into the wayback machine with me and
we'll go back to April nineteen, twenty twelve for this
Saturday Selects episode Social Security Numbers colon less boring than
You'd think, And I gotta tell you it is less
boring than you'd think. This is a really good episode,
So check it out. If you didn't think you wanted
(00:21):
to know about social Security numbers, think again, pal.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey,
and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Chuck Bryant aka two eight six five four seven five
two three.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Dude, you can't come out your social Security number. I
just made that up. I thought about that. I thought
about what if I like ended up when we were
describing like what the different numbers were. Yeah, I was like, well,
my have to be this one. If you listen to
the whole podcast, you could put together a social security number.
And I was like, don't do that, Josh, don't.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
We should probably beep out what I said anyway, because
that might be someone else's social Security number.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I don't want to be responsible for that.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Okay, we'll go back and beat that out. That's really
some CoA right there. Why how do you know that
that person would be there? Like, yes, you should notice
called me out serial number? Why I want a contest.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I can pay for my own hotel in Atlanta to
go see the guys.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
But just me, so Jerry like that? Yeah? So chuck, josh.
Uh do you know much about social security?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
A bit?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
You're about to chuck?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
The Social Security Act of nineteen thirty five, Yes, created
by our old timey forebears, basically created a scheme, and
not scheme in the way of like a carbon trading
scheme or something like that. I know you don't like
that word, but it's a legitimate word. It doesn't necessarily
mean something nefarious. Right, But under this scheme, social security
(02:12):
is given to retiring workers, yes, in the month, in
the form of a monthly payment, where basically it says, hey,
good job, you did a good job working. Go take
care of yourself. We don't want you to die on
the street. Sure, this should hopefully sustain you in your
retirement years. Right. This is before the advent of four
oh one k's and the like.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Right, this just thirty five bucks a month.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Right, Well, the whole basis of it is that the
workers of today pay into the Social Security fund and
it is immediately taken and distributed dispersed to workers who
have retired today. Yeah, so the workers of today are
(02:55):
taking care of the workers of yesterday. That's the whole
point too. It So this has led some people to
claim that the Social Security program is nothing more than
a Ponzi scheme where you're taking the money of these
people to pay off other people, or socialism even Oh,
it's totally different. It is socialism.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yeah, but people cry socialism a lot these days, and
they don't think about things like social security in all
the different ways we do have socialism that people are like, oh,
that's fine.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Right, sure, yeah, Well but you can make a case
that it is a Ponzi scheme. Sure, but Stephen Goss,
chief Actuary for the Social Security Administration, would take issue
with that.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I'm sure he would.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
He would say it's not a Ponzi scheme because a
Ponzi scheme is not sustainable.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Some might argue that social security is not sustainable, and
that is, as we say here in the South. That's
a whole nother show.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Oh okay, well I won't talk about it anymore.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Well, what do you have some numbers on its sustainability? Well,
we can chat about it.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Here's the thing. So if you just if you had
zero population growth, this thing would work forever, right, and
it would work completely efficiently with no changes whatsoever. Unfortunately,
we don't have zero population growth, and we actually had
a spike in population that we know of as the
baby boom, right, which means that very shortly and starting now,
(04:20):
I think more, there will be way more retired workers
than there are workers, which means that the workers of
today are going to have far greater burden placed on
them taking care of these retired workers than any other
workers ever.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Have or will.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
But Stephen Goss, chief factuary for the Social Security Administration,
says this will eventually work itself out. The government's taken
steps to address this, and what is done is raise
the amount of money that people throw into this. And
they're taking the extra money, and the government is buying
treasury bonds, investing in itself. Now here's the weird thing.
(04:55):
When they come mature, these bonds, the government pays these
things off with other tax money. So the government is
going to pay the Social Security fun back with other
tax money.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Now, this will drive people crazy, conservatives, libertarians, liberals, right
leaning liberals, right fiscally conservative liberals especially, But Stephen Goss
assures us it's just a little bump. We're probably not
going to have another population spike for a while, and
Social Security will go right back to normal. It just
sticks for us right now.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Right. The other thing that I'd never really thought about
is it could not have been a sustainable program even
to begin with, because you start Social Security and when
was it, nineteen thirty five? Yeah, people started getting paid out,
you know, a year later, two years later, and so
they weren't paying in that long. So immediately you've got
(05:52):
a problem on your hands because people are starting to
get payouts that didn't pay in for twenty years.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Well saying, yes, that is the case, but they were
smaller at first.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, but it still creates a bit of a wrinkle.
I think that would wrinkle in time for the future.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I think so. But it was a hump that had
to be gotten over, and it was gotten over, like
basically the first people just got screwed.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, well, well, but they didn't pay in that much
either though, So.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
No, and that's true. So they were rightly screwed. Okay,
so let's talk about the history of all this chuck.
And by the way, I guess the takeaway from the
intro social Security is considered a.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
What a punt sis scheme.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I think people were just in there, like say, I know, all.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Right, well you already you already blew the big secret
there the Act of nineteen thirty five. It was coined.
The name social Security was coined by Abraham Epstein, who
led the American Association for Social Security. Yeah, and they
began paying out in thirty seven, like you said, yeah,
(07:01):
just for workers, right, and it was.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
The biggest wage journer of a household basically the dad,
right got the money as the retiree. Yeah, and it
was a lump something, right.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
They didn't pay it in monthly buckets back then.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Tell him what the first guy who got social Security
got his lump sum.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, his lump sum was was it seventeen cents?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, in January nineteen thirty seven. He was the first
guy to get Social Security benefits. And I lickd it up.
That's two dollars and fifty five cents in twenty ten money.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
So even back then he was just like, hey, federal government,
I got some in my pocket for you.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, Josh just made an obscene gesture. We should just
say that. In nineteen thirty nine, just two years later,
they added survivors benefits and benefits to spouses and children.
Flash forward to fifty six, they added disability benefits. Medicare
(08:01):
was signed into law. Yeah, and in sixty one, the uh,
I'm sorry. In sixty one sixty two, the Civil Service
Commission and the IRS adopted the Social Security number as
your official federal ID number and taxpayer ID number, right respectively.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Which is a kind of a thing because the first
Social Security cards specifically said on them not to be
used as identification. Yeah, but they never made a follow
up law to enforce it, and so everybody's like, no,
it's perfect for identification.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, I'll always remember it because of this card in
my wallet.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
We'll use the mark of the beast as identification.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
The first numbers, because this is not just about Social
Security but more about the numbers, which is more interesting
than I thought. Slightly, Yeah, it was. They were distributed
through the post office because they didn't have field offices yet.
So yeah, forty five thousand post offices took the initial
task to type up. These cards are called typing centers.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah. So basically this is what I This is the
part I entitled bureaucracy. Ho right, Yeah. The Social Security
Administration contacted all employers in the United States and said, hey,
this is a form SS four and on it you
just list the number of employees you have working for
(09:25):
you mail it back to us. And so all the
employers filled out I have fifteen employees and then mailed
the SS four back to the Social Security Administration. Social
Security Administration opened up the SS fours and they said, okay,
this employer has fifteen employees, so we're going to mail
him fifteen SS five forms, which are basically signing up
(09:47):
for your Social Security number.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Right, So they mailed the fifteen back, probably in one package,
to the employer, and the employer distributed them among his employees.
The employees filled out the SS five forms and they
sent them back to the Social Security Administration. Social Security
Administration said, oh, okay, now we have these and we're
going to assign social Security numbers, right right. They said, hey,
(10:12):
go to your post office the post Office gave them
the social Security numbers. The Post Office then sent that
duplicate form to the Social Security Administration, who created the
master file of all of these documents put together, which
was your social Security.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Number file, and that was sent to Maryland.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yes, and then in Maryland is where it all came together.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
That's right. Yeah, well what came together there? The numbers,
the numbering, the whole thing, your whole file. Okay, the
block file, that's right. So let's talk about the first
numbers since we're there.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Who has it? And is it zero zero one zero
one zero zero zero one? Is it the first number?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
No? Well, we should first say that no one knows
for sure who got the very first card in the
very first number, because they reckon about several hundred thousand
people applied in that first November of nineteen thirty six.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
So he didn't do the math, but they're some I'm
sure you could figure out statistically, and I'd be interested
to hear how to do this. But if one hundred
thousand people all got their card that day, yeah, and
the post offices were open from like eight to five,
sure how many people were handed their Social Security number
card simultaneously? That day, right, how many first people were there?
(11:32):
There's got to be some awesome math equation to figure
that out.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, somebody should do that for us since then, so
they don't know officially who it was, but their first
official record they do know. It was a guy named
John David Sweeney Junior. And he had the social Security
number five to five nine one, and by oh, I
(11:57):
mean zero of course or ought.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
And he got his because the head of the Social
Security Administration took it off the top of a stack, yeah,
and said this is the first one. That's right, So
there you go.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
But they did offer that to oh no, they sorry.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
The zero zero one number, the lowest number right on record.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Right before we get to there, though, John David Sweeney
ironically died before he could collect his Social Security payments.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
John David Sweeney's the one with the first social Security number,
So that is very ironic.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
It is.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
That's the fact of the podcast if you ask me.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Oh yeah, yeah, because retirement age was sixty five and
he died at sixty one. Yeah, Today they handle it differently.
It's a little confusing, but actually it's not that confusing.
You just have to be good at math. Benefits are
reduced by five nights of one percent for every month
you retire before the age of sixty five. Slacker yeah
or rich person.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, good for you.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
So so back to the number one one or whatever.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, the all time low number holder who always will
be until we start recycling numbers if we ever need to.
We won't. We may, we may. Her name is Grace
d Owen. She is of Concord, New Hampshire, or Conquered Okay,
and uh yeah, because we always get male from people.
(13:19):
It's like, oh, you pronounced it Nevada, it's Nevada. Or
if we say Nevada, they say, hey, you pronounced Nevada incorrectly,
it's Nevada.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
No, it is Nevada. But I tell everyone that writes
in from Nevada only people from Nevada say Nevada. Everyone
else has.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Nevada, especially people in Missouri. So chuck. Grace Diowen of Concord,
(14:03):
New Hampshire got the lowest number zero zero one zero
one zero zero zero one with her security numbers. It
was and she got that not because she was first
in line. As we've said, different guy got that low
number or a different guy got the first number, and
it wasn't low. She got it because of where she lived. Originally,
(14:26):
the number scheming was based on, well, the first two
numbers were based on the state you lived.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
In, right, and starting northeast, moving westward.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Right, and so you had less than fifty possible primary numbers,
the first two, first three numbers.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah, well not even They didn't even have fifty at
the time, did they.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
No, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, so this is a
total waste of digits. They figured out very quickly, so
they started assigning them to zip codes instead. Right, And
we should talk about these numbers. Do you want to hear
Are we there?
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Well, we are almost there, but you didn't mention that
Grace Owen got that number. That actually offered it as
an honor to John G. Winnet, the Social Security Board chairman,
and John Campbell, the Federal Bureau of Old Age Benefits
rep for the Boston They offered them both the number
(15:21):
one one one, and they both said, no, no thanks.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
We are true bureaucrats and that would be against the
bureaucracy's rules.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
That's right. And seventeen cents to Ernest Ackerman, the first
guy to get a payment.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yes, but item a Fuller made out like a bandit.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
This is exactly the problem.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
This is not the problem. Missus Fuller did good things
with her money. She bought herself an edsel. Yeah, she
uh invested in uh webvan. She did great things. She
did so item A. Fuller retired in November nineteen thirty nine,
(16:03):
and she was the first person to start collecting monthly benefits.
So by the time she by the time Social Security payments,
or by the time you had to start paying him,
because another fact is that you can't opt out. And
the time she retired, she contributed a total of twenty
four dollars and seventy five cents. Yes, because of the
(16:24):
Social Security scheme. By the time she died at age
one hundred and nineteen seventy five, she collected a total
of twenty two thousand, eight hundred and eighty eight dollars
and ninety two cents.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
She not sustainable.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
She made out. She wore like a bandanna around her
face like the rest of her life. She did.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah, she was a Social Security bandit.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Okay, back to the numbers. Is that enough history?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
I think so? Ok So, the first three numbers they're
called what the area numbers, yes, And like you said,
they were originally from northeast to west. So like if
you were if you lived in New Hampshire, you your
first three numbers were going to be zero zero one.
Then they figured out that, well, that's stupid, Like we're
(17:10):
going to have fifty states top, so there's a whole
number that we're not using. Eventually we're gonna need it
because Social Security numbers aren't recycled, they're retired after the
person dies, right, that is true. So then they started
assigning them to zip code, so that started using up
a lot more numbers, right.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, zip code on the mailing address on the application form,
which didn't necessarily indicate your residence. It's just wherever the
mailing address was where you applied.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Right, exactly when you were living, right, And it doesn't, Yeah,
it doesn't. Mailing in residence is not the same address
most times, it is, sure, but even still, like the
place where I was born is not where I live now.
Oh yeah, so right, So I mean you have a
lot of weird numbers for.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
The beginning, correct in the early seventies, since seventy two
is when they started the zip code. So I believe
that I actually in one of the last years since
I was born in seventy one, last people to get
the one based on the state. Cool, So I'm old timing.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Seriously, that is something.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
The next two numbers are group numbers, so you have
your area number, and then the area number is broken
into groups zero one through ninety nine.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah, and this makes sense.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
So the two numbers in the middle are the you
are that group of that zip code or that state,
depending on how old you are.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yeah, it was just a means to break it up
and make it simpler for accounting and filing and all
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Right, because instead of just one group sure from an
area or what nine hundred and ninety nine possible areas, Yeah,
you now have ninety nine groups of nine hundred and
ninety nine possible areas, ninety nine groups each, which allows
for a lot more because the eight ball that the
Social Security number is always behind is basically running out
(19:06):
of numbers.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I don't think it'll happen. It will well eventually, but
there's what they say, a billion combinations.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
There's a billion combinations. But consider this, there's been more
than four hundred million numbers issued since nineteen thirty five. Yeah,
so what sixty five seventy seven years, right, I have
a feeling that does take into account the baby boom
that ate up a lot of numbers, But I mean
I have a feeling that we could we could reach
(19:33):
that and what another one hundred, one hundred years, the
US will be around I'm sure longer than then, hopefully.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Hey you never know, Yeah, China is rising. Well it'll
be at the very least not in our lifetime.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Oh no, so who cares. I would have agreed with you.
You qualified it like that.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah. Well, what they'll probably do is, and I'm guessing here,
but they'll probably start reassigning numbers from dead people.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Which will be weird. I use social Security number.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah, I imagine they'd go back. I mean, it would
make sense to me that they would start from the
beginning again almost. Yeah, so like you're using someone's number
from nineteen thirty five in the year it's twenty one fourteen. Yeah,
you got a stinky old mothball number.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
It's like a wicker wicker wheelchair or something like that,
or like leather leg braks. Is something weird, like from
the thirties?
Speaker 1 (20:25):
What are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
You know exactly what I'm talking about Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
The last four digits are the serial numbers, and they
number consecutively from triple O one through nine nine nine nine.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
So that's just saying, well, we're going to extend the
number the possible numbers we can come up with exactly
even more as a billion. And you know what, you
don't even necessarily have to recycle even if you add
like an extra attempt digit. How much would that change everything?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
I mean, they'd have to rewrite all their programming and
all their accountings.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
But then we wouldn't have to recycle numbers.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, good point. Okay, Luckily they have people much smarter
than that's deciding how to handle that.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
I don't know, we're pretty sharp, all.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Right, Josh, common questions, these are actually pretty good.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Okay, Chuck, here's a question for you. Does everyone have
to have a Social Security number?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
If you're over eighteen, then yes, you do. And if
you receive an income and you're over eighteen, okay, if
you're interested in starting up a bank account, being a
deduction on your parents' income taxes, all sorts of things
like that, metal getting medical coverage, taking advantage of government services,
(21:43):
then you're going to need that.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
So there's a lot of people who dispute that that
you have to have that right. Practically speaking, you do,
like any bank can be like I'm not doing business
with you, and then you say, oh, okay, well I
can't force you to buy law, but I'll try your competitor,
and you go on down the line and maybe you
find a bank. From what I understand, there's banks that
(22:05):
are set up in the Midwest for people who don't
have Social Security numbers, who have said I'm not going
to have one. I don't trust the government, I don't
want to have a serial number, and I'm not going
to have this now.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
But they're still paying in.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Uh yeah, yeah, I think they're still paying in, but
they don't have a Social Security number, so.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
That means they're not going to get benefits at the end.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I don't think they think they're going to get benefits anyway.
I could get that, but yeah, they don't have a
Social Security number. I think there are there are people
who don't pay Social Security as well. It's like a
whole Yeah, there's like a whole topic along the fringe
of whether or not you need to have one, whether
or not you actually do have to pay in the
constitutionality of it, all that stuff, but for all practical purposes,
(22:49):
your life is exponentially easier if you have a Social
Security number.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Right, And you also said you have to pay because
you can't tell the government, you know what, I'm setting
up for my own retirement, and I want to take
all the available money that I make to do that
because my retirement plan is much better than whatever U
yokals are working on.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah, because I mean, if you you have to pay
you in fifteen point three percent. I don't know if
that's current. I haven't looked, but as of the writing
of this article, it was fifteen point three percent, seven
points sixty five percent paid by you out of your
gross pay and seven point sixty five paid by your employer.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
It is staggering how much we pay in taxes in
this country.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
So if you took fifteen point three percent of your
gross pay and put it into a four oh one
k over the same course of years, you would have
so much more money. Yeah, barring another stock market catastrophe
before you could get your money out of your four
oh one k, right, you would have way more than
you have from the Social Security administration as benefits.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
You know, what I meant to look up is if
the government uses this money for other things in the meantime,
or is it strictly like here, it's in this little
pool and all we're doing is paying people out with it.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Well, supposedly, before the baby boom problem arose, it was
going in and right back out. Okay, And I'm sure
any surplus was invested in treasury bonds. Now all of
the surpluses invested in treasury bonds, which is just such
a shell game. It's so crazy, and no one has
any idea if this is gonna work. I swear to God,
(24:28):
I'm not paranoid.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
I don't live in the Midwest. I'm not a fringe dweller.
This is not something I like keep up with a lot.
I don't read WorldNet daily. There's nothing like that in
my life. Yeah, but I'm telling you this is like
there there's no guarantee that this social Security I guess
bandage for the baby boom population spike, if it's gonna work,
(24:51):
it's it's really at the very least, it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah, in the troubling, I would say, at the very least, sure, Okay,
they but you they make it real easy for you
to slap a number on your little, brand new baby.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yes, do you have to have a number for your child?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Well, like I said, if you want them to get
medical coverage and open up a savings account in their
name for like their future college or trade school, or
travels around the world, or.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
You want to claim it was a deduction on your tax.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Filing, yeah, then they're going to need one, and they
make it pretty easy on you to get one for
your new, little smelly baby.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
They do. Again, I'm not a fringe dweller, but they
have the very sinister sounding Enumeration at Birth program.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
That's pretty bad. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
It was started in nineteen eighty nine and basically just
made it very easy for you to get a Social
Security number for your infant as part of their birth
record forms. Right Enumeration at birth.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
You know, I used to I think I mentioned this before.
I used to carry my card around on my wallet
when I was a teenager because I thought it was
I don't know, I thought it made me legitimate or adult,
like it's interesting. Everyone else is everyone else is out
drinking and I was like, no, no, I got myself
a security card.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
It keeps the urges away.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Hey, speaking of social Security cards and wallets, do you
want to talk about that, lady? Oh?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah, I can't kill this Witcher.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
This in uh nineteen thirty seven, dude named Douglas Patterson
had a wallet company.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I'm sorry, h Ferry.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, he was the vice president and treasurer of this
wallet company, and he said, you know what we should do.
We should include a fake social Security card and every wallet.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
But we'll make it look really, really realistic by copying
yours secretary.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah. He basically assigned these little fake cards that like,
you know, you get a picture frame with a fake
picture in it. Yeah, they gave out wallet or they
sold wallets with a fake social Security card with a
real number. I don't know why he thought that was
a good idea or why.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
She went along with it. Yeah, what was her name,
Hilda Strader Witcher? She went along with this? Did she
go along with their boss?
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Maybe she didn't know, No, she knew she did.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yeah, And I guess she didn't feel like she could
assert herself at the time. But what over forty years,
something like forty thousand people used her social Security number?
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yeah, they gave her newing.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah, and people were still using as recently as nineteen
seventy seven, there were twelve people using that as their
own because of this wallet.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Yeah, in defense of the dude. He did have the
word spitchimmen on the bottom of it Spaceman specimen, but
it was, you know, in small print, and it looked
like the real deal. It had the little emblem that
who was the guy who designed that?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Fred Happle?
Speaker 1 (27:45):
That's right? And what else did he design?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
The flying Tiger's logo?
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Which what was that? Like a B two bomber logo?
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Well, who knows? World War two? I guess some sort
of gunner plane or something. Okay, that'd be my guess.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
The fighting Hellcats, Yeah, flying hell Fish, the Hellfish.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
The Hellfish was the Simpsons. Yeah, okay, Josh, can you
get a new number?
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yes, but only in very extreme cases.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Like stalking, like stalking or fraud, a bad case of fraud,
I guess yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
I would imagine that the FBI can probably get you
on if you're part of the Witness Protection program. Oh sure,
which we've talked about.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yeah, yeah, you don't have to pay for that, there's
no fee from the SSA, but you what you should
be wary of as companies that claim that they can
get you a new number to absolve your credit, like, hey,
have you led an awful bad life, become a new person.
We'll get you a new Social Security number.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Which is hilarious if you think that that that's crazy
fallowing for that. It's like buying an elevator pass in
high school as a reshmen or something like that, except way.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Worse when you have a single floor high school.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Because I'm sure they're like, not only do we charge
you a fee, but give us your sub security number
because we have to go in and like make sure
that it's wiped out.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Right, geez, where are we here? You know? The title
of this section was why does it matter if someone
knows my Social Security number? I think it's pretty obvious. Yeah,
Identity theft, Yeah, it's a big problem these days. Back
in the old days, it wasn't as much.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
It's actually gone down since this article.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
What four hundred thousand years what they said here, right.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
It's like two seventeen. Now, oh that's good. Well that's
the ones that the FTC gets reports of, which are
probably the lion's share of them. Right, But it was
supposedly increasing, like by some crazy percentage.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yeah, forty percent per year.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
It's up eleven percent. Okay, so it's gone down some.
I think people have just gotten scared of it, more
wary about it. But I mean it's still obviously a
pretty big problem.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Part of the problem though, is that we shouldn't be
using social Security numbers for identification for a reason. They're
just way too publicly available.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Even the last four digits. Don't use that as like
your pin number.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
No, but I mean, even if somebody asks you your
last four digits, how many people have your last four digits?
How many companies do a lot? A lot, And they
also have your birth date, They also have where you
were born, your mother's maiden name. It's just kind of
like it's all out there, I know. And basically there's
no really good scheme to I guess uses as a
(30:38):
pass code, as a past basically a way of saying
I am me right, because if we all just relied
on some other number or something like that, then people
could find that out. There's really no good way to
do it. But social Security numbers are definitely not the answer. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I always get a little creeped out when some business,
you know, what are the last like Comcast or something
like my cable company. Yeah, we'll see what are your
last force of your social and I'll spit it out
and they'll go, okay, Right.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
You can say I don't want to tell you, I
want to answer everything else, and they'll they'll run you
through your paces.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
But they know it because they're asking you for identificing,
like right for verification.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Exactly because you've given it to them already. You don't.
There's basically most companies don't have any legal right to
ask you what your Social Security number is, right, But
they can also say, well, we don't trust you, so
if you don't give it to us when you open
your account or whatever exactly, then you're out of luck.
(31:37):
With government agencies. You can ask for the Privacy Act
of nineteen seventy four disclose your notice, which says like, hey,
we have a legal right to ask you this or
we don't, right, and then you can say you can't
ask me that, bob.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
But yeah, all the protection advice that given here is
pretty basic. You know, don't carry your card and your wallet,
cancel credit cards you don't use, don't share.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
It way, don't necessarily repute that one. What don't we
just cancel credit cards you don't use. There are things
you should do, like keep an eye on your accounts,
your credit card accounts, even though you don't use them.
But that's not necessarily good advice, especially credit wise, because
there's this thing called the available credit to debt ratio,
(32:26):
one of the ratios that they figure your credit score with.
And if you have a clean credit card you're not
using that has like five or ten grand of available
credit on it, sure that counts, and that makes you
very attractive to people who are selling you houses or
cars or whatever. That's true, So don't necessarily go do that.
Keep them in a safe deposit box, keep an eye
on all your accounts even if you're not using them.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah. Boy, my credit rating is so good right now.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
That's awesome, dude.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
It's like top five percentile somehow. Oh yeah, and that
is I say that as a testament to you out
there who may have bad credit. You can hear it
over time.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah, you and Emily did good.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Huh uh. Well yeah, she's the one that helped me
get my good credit back. That's good as CFO.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Congratulations, man, that's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Thank you. It is good and my debts, you know,
from the past were I don't want to get into it,
but they had less to do with me and more
to do with.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Like bookies, heroin, No, like dog fighting.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Bad roommates and getting screwed over by you know, like, hey,
you were supposed to pay this Georgia power bill eight
years ago and it's still in my name and I
didn't even know about it. That kind of thing, gotcha,
And just being lazy in college, like miss, yeah, I
missed my credit card payment. No big deal, I'll just
pay it next month.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Right, I'm just gonna go buy some heroin instead. I
know you're doing in college, Chuck, not that, So I
(34:10):
guess that's about it. Huh.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yeah. One more piece of advice, which is actually good.
Every few years, go to the SSA website and request
a copy of your earnings and Benefit Estimate statement.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah. Have you heard of this before? No?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
And I've never done it, and I'm gonna go do
it today.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
All right, let's go do it together. We'll both go
do years together.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
And we'll be like what, I've been working since I
was thirteen, So I imagine I'm doing pretty good.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Nice. Oh, we didn't talk about that. The system is waited.
The whole reason it was instituted was to help make
sure that people don't fall through the cracks or whatever. Yeah,
and to help the poor more than the wealthy. Although
you get more money out the more money you put
(34:58):
in right.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Which is based on your income, so the right you make,
the more you ban.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
But it's also disproportionately weighted so that the people who
are earning the least get a disproportionate amount out to
help them, correct, Amanda, which is great. It's socialism at
its finest, as you said. So, uh yeah, that's about it.
That's social security numbers and pretty much social security. I
(35:25):
don't think any to do that again. Okay, hats off
the FDR, Pharah, new deal, great society.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Chicken in every pot that was Hoover a number on
every forehead.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Nice Chuck, thank you. We'll end it with that one.
If you want to know more about social security numbers,
you can read this exhaustive article about them by typing
in social security in the search bar at HowStuffWorks dot com.
Which means it's time for a listener mail.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Josh, I'm gonna call this following up on zero. That
one got a lot more attention than I thought. All
the math nerds came out you were like zero, very
happy that we did that. And one such nerd emailed this.
This is Stephen, and he says, I think I might
be able to put your mind to rest on a
(36:18):
couple of those zero properties. And a lot of people
try to explain this, and I think he did the
best first, dividing by zero. I find it helpful to
think of division as separating objects into containers. See this
guy is like talking up my alley. Yeah, yeah, I
can visualize stuff a lot better this way. So if
you have five objects and five containers, you would put
(36:40):
one object in each container. You still have the same
number of objects, but divided evenly across containers. Now, if
you have five objects and no containers, in other words,
dividing by zero, you still have all the same objects,
but they have not been put anywhere. You can't say
that you'd put zero per container because it's not a
(37:03):
lack of items, but rather a lack of containers. So
dividing by zero means you have things but nothing to
contain them, so a ratio cannot be formed.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Awesome makes sense.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Right, Yeah, As for the raising to the zero zero power.
This is one because our basis of numerology is the
number one. All things larger are functions of how many
ones it holds, and all things larger define how many
need to be combined to form a one. This, combined
(37:38):
with the fact that exponents don't describe a multiplication, but
rather a number of times a base measurement will be
multiplied by a factor, means that if the base measurement
is never a multiplied by the factor, you are left
with the base alone. So there you have it. It's
tempting to think of these numbers as one to the power,
but unfortunately this is wrong.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Over that again, No, I can't.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
That is from Stephen, a junior software engineer. Thanks Steven,
so I will take him at his word.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, he sounds like he's got it down.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah, the containers. That makes total sense to me now. Yeah,
So there you have it.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
So thanks Steven, junior software engineer. We are looking forward
to you becoming a senior software engineer, likely in the
near future. From your email, and if you have some
sort of illumination about a previous podcast, doesn't matter how
old it is. We always like hearing new stuff about
old stuff. Sure, You can send it in an email
(38:40):
to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you Should
Know is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hi, everybody, it's Charles W. Chuck Bryant here. Why don't
you jump back into the wayback machine with me and
we'll go back to April nineteen, twenty twelve for this
Saturday Selects episode Social Security Numbers colon less boring than
You'd think, And I gotta tell you it is less
boring than you'd think. This is a really good episode,
So check it out. If you didn't think you wanted
(00:21):
to know about social Security numbers, think again, pal.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey,
and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Chuck Bryant aka two eight six five four seven five
two three.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Dude, you can't come out your social Security number. I
just made that up. I thought about that. I thought
about what if I like ended up when we were
describing like what the different numbers were. Yeah, I was like, well,
my have to be this one. If you listen to
the whole podcast, you could put together a social security number.
And I was like, don't do that, Josh, don't.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
We should probably beep out what I said anyway, because
that might be someone else's social Security number.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
I don't want to be responsible for that.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Okay, we'll go back and beat that out. That's really
some CoA right there. Why how do you know that
that person would be there? Like, yes, you should notice
called me out serial number? Why I want a contest.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I can pay for my own hotel in Atlanta to
go see the guys.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
But just me, so Jerry like that? Yeah? So chuck, josh.
Uh do you know much about social security?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
A bit?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
You're about to chuck?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
The Social Security Act of nineteen thirty five, Yes, created
by our old timey forebears, basically created a scheme, and
not scheme in the way of like a carbon trading
scheme or something like that. I know you don't like
that word, but it's a legitimate word. It doesn't necessarily
mean something nefarious. Right, But under this scheme, social security
(02:12):
is given to retiring workers, yes, in the month, in
the form of a monthly payment, where basically it says, hey,
good job, you did a good job working. Go take
care of yourself. We don't want you to die on
the street. Sure, this should hopefully sustain you in your
retirement years. Right. This is before the advent of four
oh one k's and the like.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Right, this just thirty five bucks a month.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Right, Well, the whole basis of it is that the
workers of today pay into the Social Security fund and
it is immediately taken and distributed dispersed to workers who
have retired today. Yeah, so the workers of today are
(02:55):
taking care of the workers of yesterday. That's the whole
point too. It So this has led some people to
claim that the Social Security program is nothing more than
a Ponzi scheme where you're taking the money of these
people to pay off other people, or socialism even Oh,
it's totally different. It is socialism.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yeah, but people cry socialism a lot these days, and
they don't think about things like social security in all
the different ways we do have socialism that people are like, oh,
that's fine.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Right, sure, yeah, Well but you can make a case
that it is a Ponzi scheme. Sure, but Stephen Goss,
chief Actuary for the Social Security Administration, would take issue
with that.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I'm sure he would.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
He would say it's not a Ponzi scheme because a
Ponzi scheme is not sustainable.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Some might argue that social security is not sustainable, and
that is, as we say here in the South. That's
a whole nother show.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Oh okay, well I won't talk about it anymore.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Well, what do you have some numbers on its sustainability? Well,
we can chat about it.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Here's the thing. So if you just if you had
zero population growth, this thing would work forever, right, and
it would work completely efficiently with no changes whatsoever. Unfortunately,
we don't have zero population growth, and we actually had
a spike in population that we know of as the
baby boom, right, which means that very shortly and starting now,
(04:20):
I think more, there will be way more retired workers
than there are workers, which means that the workers of
today are going to have far greater burden placed on
them taking care of these retired workers than any other
workers ever.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Have or will.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
But Stephen Goss, chief factuary for the Social Security Administration,
says this will eventually work itself out. The government's taken
steps to address this, and what is done is raise
the amount of money that people throw into this. And
they're taking the extra money, and the government is buying
treasury bonds, investing in itself. Now here's the weird thing.
(04:55):
When they come mature, these bonds, the government pays these
things off with other tax money. So the government is
going to pay the Social Security fun back with other
tax money.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Now, this will drive people crazy, conservatives, libertarians, liberals, right
leaning liberals, right fiscally conservative liberals especially, But Stephen Goss
assures us it's just a little bump. We're probably not
going to have another population spike for a while, and
Social Security will go right back to normal. It just
sticks for us right now.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Right. The other thing that I'd never really thought about
is it could not have been a sustainable program even
to begin with, because you start Social Security and when
was it, nineteen thirty five? Yeah, people started getting paid out,
you know, a year later, two years later, and so
they weren't paying in that long. So immediately you've got
(05:52):
a problem on your hands because people are starting to
get payouts that didn't pay in for twenty years.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Well saying, yes, that is the case, but they were
smaller at first.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, but it still creates a bit of a wrinkle.
I think that would wrinkle in time for the future.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I think so. But it was a hump that had
to be gotten over, and it was gotten over, like
basically the first people just got screwed.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, well, well, but they didn't pay in that much
either though, So.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
No, and that's true. So they were rightly screwed. Okay,
so let's talk about the history of all this chuck.
And by the way, I guess the takeaway from the
intro social Security is considered a.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
What a punt sis scheme.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I think people were just in there, like say, I know, all.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Right, well you already you already blew the big secret
there the Act of nineteen thirty five. It was coined.
The name social Security was coined by Abraham Epstein, who
led the American Association for Social Security. Yeah, and they
began paying out in thirty seven, like you said, yeah,
(07:01):
just for workers, right, and it was.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
The biggest wage journer of a household basically the dad,
right got the money as the retiree. Yeah, and it
was a lump something, right.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
They didn't pay it in monthly buckets back then.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Tell him what the first guy who got social Security
got his lump sum.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, his lump sum was was it seventeen cents?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yeah, in January nineteen thirty seven. He was the first
guy to get Social Security benefits. And I lickd it up.
That's two dollars and fifty five cents in twenty ten money.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
So even back then he was just like, hey, federal government,
I got some in my pocket for you.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yeah, Josh just made an obscene gesture. We should just
say that. In nineteen thirty nine, just two years later,
they added survivors benefits and benefits to spouses and children.
Flash forward to fifty six, they added disability benefits. Medicare
(08:01):
was signed into law. Yeah, and in sixty one, the uh,
I'm sorry. In sixty one sixty two, the Civil Service
Commission and the IRS adopted the Social Security number as
your official federal ID number and taxpayer ID number, right respectively.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Which is a kind of a thing because the first
Social Security cards specifically said on them not to be
used as identification. Yeah, but they never made a follow
up law to enforce it, and so everybody's like, no,
it's perfect for identification.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, I'll always remember it because of this card in
my wallet.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
We'll use the mark of the beast as identification.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
The first numbers, because this is not just about Social
Security but more about the numbers, which is more interesting
than I thought. Slightly, Yeah, it was. They were distributed
through the post office because they didn't have field offices yet.
So yeah, forty five thousand post offices took the initial
task to type up. These cards are called typing centers.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah. So basically this is what I This is the
part I entitled bureaucracy. Ho right, Yeah. The Social Security
Administration contacted all employers in the United States and said, hey,
this is a form SS four and on it you
just list the number of employees you have working for
(09:25):
you mail it back to us. And so all the
employers filled out I have fifteen employees and then mailed
the SS four back to the Social Security Administration. Social
Security Administration opened up the SS fours and they said, okay,
this employer has fifteen employees, so we're going to mail
him fifteen SS five forms, which are basically signing up
(09:47):
for your Social Security number.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Right, So they mailed the fifteen back, probably in one package,
to the employer, and the employer distributed them among his employees.
The employees filled out the SS five forms and they
sent them back to the Social Security Administration. Social Security
Administration said, oh, okay, now we have these and we're
going to assign social Security numbers, right right. They said, hey,
(10:12):
go to your post office the post Office gave them
the social Security numbers. The Post Office then sent that
duplicate form to the Social Security Administration, who created the
master file of all of these documents put together, which
was your social Security.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Number file, and that was sent to Maryland.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yes, and then in Maryland is where it all came together.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
That's right. Yeah, well what came together there? The numbers,
the numbering, the whole thing, your whole file. Okay, the
block file, that's right. So let's talk about the first
numbers since we're there.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Who has it? And is it zero zero one zero
one zero zero zero one? Is it the first number?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
No? Well, we should first say that no one knows
for sure who got the very first card in the
very first number, because they reckon about several hundred thousand
people applied in that first November of nineteen thirty six.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
So he didn't do the math, but they're some I'm
sure you could figure out statistically, and I'd be interested
to hear how to do this. But if one hundred
thousand people all got their card that day, yeah, and
the post offices were open from like eight to five,
sure how many people were handed their Social Security number
card simultaneously? That day, right, how many first people were there?
(11:32):
There's got to be some awesome math equation to figure
that out.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Yeah, somebody should do that for us since then, so
they don't know officially who it was, but their first
official record they do know. It was a guy named
John David Sweeney Junior. And he had the social Security
number five to five nine one, and by oh, I
(11:57):
mean zero of course or ought.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
And he got his because the head of the Social
Security Administration took it off the top of a stack, yeah,
and said this is the first one. That's right, So
there you go.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
But they did offer that to oh no, they sorry.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
The zero zero one number, the lowest number right on record.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Right before we get to there, though, John David Sweeney
ironically died before he could collect his Social Security payments.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
John David Sweeney's the one with the first social Security number,
So that is very ironic.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
It is.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
That's the fact of the podcast if you ask me.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Oh yeah, yeah, because retirement age was sixty five and
he died at sixty one. Yeah, Today they handle it differently.
It's a little confusing, but actually it's not that confusing.
You just have to be good at math. Benefits are
reduced by five nights of one percent for every month
you retire before the age of sixty five. Slacker yeah
or rich person.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, good for you.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
So so back to the number one one or whatever.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, the all time low number holder who always will
be until we start recycling numbers if we ever need to.
We won't. We may, we may. Her name is Grace
d Owen. She is of Concord, New Hampshire, or Conquered Okay,
and uh yeah, because we always get male from people.
(13:19):
It's like, oh, you pronounced it Nevada, it's Nevada. Or
if we say Nevada, they say, hey, you pronounced Nevada incorrectly,
it's Nevada.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
No, it is Nevada. But I tell everyone that writes
in from Nevada only people from Nevada say Nevada. Everyone
else has.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Nevada, especially people in Missouri. So chuck. Grace Diowen of Concord,
(14:03):
New Hampshire got the lowest number zero zero one zero
one zero zero zero one with her security numbers. It
was and she got that not because she was first
in line. As we've said, different guy got that low
number or a different guy got the first number, and
it wasn't low. She got it because of where she lived. Originally,
(14:26):
the number scheming was based on, well, the first two
numbers were based on the state you lived.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
In, right, and starting northeast, moving westward.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Right, and so you had less than fifty possible primary numbers,
the first two, first three numbers.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Yeah, well not even They didn't even have fifty at
the time, did they.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
No, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, so this is a
total waste of digits. They figured out very quickly, so
they started assigning them to zip codes instead. Right, And
we should talk about these numbers. Do you want to hear
Are we there?
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Well, we are almost there, but you didn't mention that
Grace Owen got that number. That actually offered it as
an honor to John G. Winnet, the Social Security Board chairman,
and John Campbell, the Federal Bureau of Old Age Benefits
rep for the Boston They offered them both the number
(15:21):
one one one, and they both said, no, no thanks.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
We are true bureaucrats and that would be against the
bureaucracy's rules.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
That's right. And seventeen cents to Ernest Ackerman, the first
guy to get a payment.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yes, but item a Fuller made out like a bandit.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
This is exactly the problem.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
This is not the problem. Missus Fuller did good things
with her money. She bought herself an edsel. Yeah, she
uh invested in uh webvan. She did great things. She
did so item A. Fuller retired in November nineteen thirty nine,
(16:03):
and she was the first person to start collecting monthly benefits.
So by the time she by the time Social Security payments,
or by the time you had to start paying him,
because another fact is that you can't opt out. And
the time she retired, she contributed a total of twenty
four dollars and seventy five cents. Yes, because of the
(16:24):
Social Security scheme. By the time she died at age
one hundred and nineteen seventy five, she collected a total
of twenty two thousand, eight hundred and eighty eight dollars
and ninety two cents.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
She not sustainable.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
She made out. She wore like a bandanna around her
face like the rest of her life. She did.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah, she was a Social Security bandit.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Okay, back to the numbers. Is that enough history?
Speaker 2 (16:49):
I think so? Ok So, the first three numbers they're
called what the area numbers, yes, And like you said,
they were originally from northeast to west. So like if
you were if you lived in New Hampshire, you your
first three numbers were going to be zero zero one.
Then they figured out that, well, that's stupid, Like we're
(17:10):
going to have fifty states top, so there's a whole
number that we're not using. Eventually we're gonna need it
because Social Security numbers aren't recycled, they're retired after the
person dies, right, that is true. So then they started
assigning them to zip code, so that started using up
a lot more numbers, right.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, zip code on the mailing address on the application form,
which didn't necessarily indicate your residence. It's just wherever the
mailing address was where you applied.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Right, exactly when you were living, right, And it doesn't, Yeah,
it doesn't. Mailing in residence is not the same address
most times, it is, sure, but even still, like the
place where I was born is not where I live now.
Oh yeah, so right, So I mean you have a
lot of weird numbers for.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
The beginning, correct in the early seventies, since seventy two
is when they started the zip code. So I believe
that I actually in one of the last years since
I was born in seventy one, last people to get
the one based on the state. Cool, So I'm old timing.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Seriously, that is something.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
The next two numbers are group numbers, so you have
your area number, and then the area number is broken
into groups zero one through ninety nine.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah, and this makes sense.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
So the two numbers in the middle are the you
are that group of that zip code or that state,
depending on how old you are.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Yeah, it was just a means to break it up
and make it simpler for accounting and filing and all
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Right, because instead of just one group sure from an
area or what nine hundred and ninety nine possible areas, Yeah,
you now have ninety nine groups of nine hundred and
ninety nine possible areas, ninety nine groups each, which allows
for a lot more because the eight ball that the
Social Security number is always behind is basically running out
(19:06):
of numbers.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I don't think it'll happen. It will well eventually, but
there's what they say, a billion combinations.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
There's a billion combinations. But consider this, there's been more
than four hundred million numbers issued since nineteen thirty five. Yeah,
so what sixty five seventy seven years, right, I have
a feeling that does take into account the baby boom
that ate up a lot of numbers, But I mean
I have a feeling that we could we could reach
(19:33):
that and what another one hundred, one hundred years, the
US will be around I'm sure longer than then, hopefully.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Hey you never know, Yeah, China is rising. Well it'll
be at the very least not in our lifetime.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Oh no, so who cares. I would have agreed with you.
You qualified it like that.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Yeah. Well, what they'll probably do is, and I'm guessing here,
but they'll probably start reassigning numbers from dead people.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Which will be weird. I use social Security number.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah, I imagine they'd go back. I mean, it would
make sense to me that they would start from the
beginning again almost. Yeah, so like you're using someone's number
from nineteen thirty five in the year it's twenty one fourteen. Yeah,
you got a stinky old mothball number.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
It's like a wicker wicker wheelchair or something like that,
or like leather leg braks. Is something weird, like from
the thirties?
Speaker 1 (20:25):
What are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (20:26):
You know exactly what I'm talking about Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
The last four digits are the serial numbers, and they
number consecutively from triple O one through nine nine nine nine.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
So that's just saying, well, we're going to extend the
number the possible numbers we can come up with exactly
even more as a billion. And you know what, you
don't even necessarily have to recycle even if you add
like an extra attempt digit. How much would that change everything?
Speaker 1 (20:56):
I mean, they'd have to rewrite all their programming and
all their accountings.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
But then we wouldn't have to recycle numbers.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, good point. Okay, Luckily they have people much smarter
than that's deciding how to handle that.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
I don't know, we're pretty sharp, all.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Right, Josh, common questions, these are actually pretty good.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Okay, Chuck, here's a question for you. Does everyone have
to have a Social Security number?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
If you're over eighteen, then yes, you do. And if
you receive an income and you're over eighteen, okay, if
you're interested in starting up a bank account, being a
deduction on your parents' income taxes, all sorts of things
like that, metal getting medical coverage, taking advantage of government services,
(21:43):
then you're going to need that.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
So there's a lot of people who dispute that that
you have to have that right. Practically speaking, you do,
like any bank can be like I'm not doing business
with you, and then you say, oh, okay, well I
can't force you to buy law, but I'll try your competitor,
and you go on down the line and maybe you
find a bank. From what I understand, there's banks that
(22:05):
are set up in the Midwest for people who don't
have Social Security numbers, who have said I'm not going
to have one. I don't trust the government, I don't
want to have a serial number, and I'm not going
to have this now.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
But they're still paying in.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Uh yeah, yeah, I think they're still paying in, but
they don't have a Social Security number, so.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
That means they're not going to get benefits at the end.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
I don't think they think they're going to get benefits anyway.
I could get that, but yeah, they don't have a
Social Security number. I think there are there are people
who don't pay Social Security as well. It's like a
whole Yeah, there's like a whole topic along the fringe
of whether or not you need to have one, whether
or not you actually do have to pay in the
constitutionality of it, all that stuff, but for all practical purposes,
(22:49):
your life is exponentially easier if you have a Social
Security number.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Right, And you also said you have to pay because
you can't tell the government, you know what, I'm setting
up for my own retirement, and I want to take
all the available money that I make to do that
because my retirement plan is much better than whatever U
yokals are working on.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah, because I mean, if you you have to pay
you in fifteen point three percent. I don't know if
that's current. I haven't looked, but as of the writing
of this article, it was fifteen point three percent, seven
points sixty five percent paid by you out of your
gross pay and seven point sixty five paid by your employer.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
It is staggering how much we pay in taxes in
this country.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
So if you took fifteen point three percent of your
gross pay and put it into a four oh one
k over the same course of years, you would have
so much more money. Yeah, barring another stock market catastrophe
before you could get your money out of your four
oh one k, right, you would have way more than
you have from the Social Security administration as benefits.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
You know, what I meant to look up is if
the government uses this money for other things in the meantime,
or is it strictly like here, it's in this little
pool and all we're doing is paying people out with it.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Well, supposedly, before the baby boom problem arose, it was
going in and right back out. Okay, And I'm sure
any surplus was invested in treasury bonds. Now all of
the surpluses invested in treasury bonds, which is just such
a shell game. It's so crazy, and no one has
any idea if this is gonna work. I swear to God,
(24:28):
I'm not paranoid.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
I don't live in the Midwest. I'm not a fringe dweller.
This is not something I like keep up with a lot.
I don't read WorldNet daily. There's nothing like that in
my life. Yeah, but I'm telling you this is like
there there's no guarantee that this social Security I guess
bandage for the baby boom population spike, if it's gonna work,
(24:51):
it's it's really at the very least, it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Yeah, in the troubling, I would say, at the very least, sure, Okay,
they but you they make it real easy for you
to slap a number on your little, brand new baby.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yes, do you have to have a number for your child?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Well, like I said, if you want them to get
medical coverage and open up a savings account in their
name for like their future college or trade school, or
travels around the world, or.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
You want to claim it was a deduction on your tax.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Filing, yeah, then they're going to need one, and they
make it pretty easy on you to get one for
your new, little smelly baby.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
They do. Again, I'm not a fringe dweller, but they
have the very sinister sounding Enumeration at Birth program.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
That's pretty bad. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
It was started in nineteen eighty nine and basically just
made it very easy for you to get a Social
Security number for your infant as part of their birth
record forms. Right Enumeration at birth.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
You know, I used to I think I mentioned this before.
I used to carry my card around on my wallet
when I was a teenager because I thought it was
I don't know, I thought it made me legitimate or adult,
like it's interesting. Everyone else is everyone else is out
drinking and I was like, no, no, I got myself
a security card.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
It keeps the urges away.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Hey, speaking of social Security cards and wallets, do you
want to talk about that, lady? Oh?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah, I can't kill this Witcher.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
This in uh nineteen thirty seven, dude named Douglas Patterson
had a wallet company.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I'm sorry, h Ferry.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, he was the vice president and treasurer of this
wallet company, and he said, you know what we should do.
We should include a fake social Security card and every wallet.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
But we'll make it look really, really realistic by copying
yours secretary.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah. He basically assigned these little fake cards that like,
you know, you get a picture frame with a fake
picture in it. Yeah, they gave out wallet or they
sold wallets with a fake social Security card with a
real number. I don't know why he thought that was
a good idea or why.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
She went along with it. Yeah, what was her name,
Hilda Strader Witcher? She went along with this? Did she
go along with their boss?
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Maybe she didn't know, No, she knew she did.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yeah, And I guess she didn't feel like she could
assert herself at the time. But what over forty years,
something like forty thousand people used her social Security number?
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yeah, they gave her newing.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah, and people were still using as recently as nineteen
seventy seven, there were twelve people using that as their
own because of this wallet.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Yeah, in defense of the dude. He did have the
word spitchimmen on the bottom of it Spaceman specimen, but
it was, you know, in small print, and it looked
like the real deal. It had the little emblem that
who was the guy who designed that?
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Fred Happle?
Speaker 1 (27:45):
That's right? And what else did he design?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
The flying Tiger's logo?
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Which what was that? Like a B two bomber logo?
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Well, who knows? World War two? I guess some sort
of gunner plane or something. Okay, that'd be my guess.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
The fighting Hellcats, Yeah, flying hell Fish, the Hellfish.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
The Hellfish was the Simpsons. Yeah, okay, Josh, can you
get a new number?
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yes, but only in very extreme cases.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Like stalking, like stalking or fraud, a bad case of fraud,
I guess yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
I would imagine that the FBI can probably get you
on if you're part of the Witness Protection program. Oh sure,
which we've talked about.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yeah, yeah, you don't have to pay for that, there's
no fee from the SSA, but you what you should
be wary of as companies that claim that they can
get you a new number to absolve your credit, like, hey,
have you led an awful bad life, become a new person.
We'll get you a new Social Security number.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Which is hilarious if you think that that that's crazy
fallowing for that. It's like buying an elevator pass in
high school as a reshmen or something like that, except way.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Worse when you have a single floor high school.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Because I'm sure they're like, not only do we charge
you a fee, but give us your sub security number
because we have to go in and like make sure
that it's wiped out.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Right, geez, where are we here? You know? The title
of this section was why does it matter if someone
knows my Social Security number? I think it's pretty obvious. Yeah,
Identity theft, Yeah, it's a big problem these days. Back
in the old days, it wasn't as much.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
It's actually gone down since this article.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
What four hundred thousand years what they said here, right.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
It's like two seventeen. Now, oh that's good. Well that's
the ones that the FTC gets reports of, which are
probably the lion's share of them. Right, But it was
supposedly increasing, like by some crazy percentage.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Yeah, forty percent per year.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
It's up eleven percent. Okay, so it's gone down some.
I think people have just gotten scared of it, more
wary about it. But I mean it's still obviously a
pretty big problem.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Part of the problem though, is that we shouldn't be
using social Security numbers for identification for a reason. They're
just way too publicly available.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Even the last four digits. Don't use that as like
your pin number.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
No, but I mean, even if somebody asks you your
last four digits, how many people have your last four digits?
How many companies do a lot? A lot, And they
also have your birth date, They also have where you
were born, your mother's maiden name. It's just kind of
like it's all out there, I know. And basically there's
no really good scheme to I guess uses as a
(30:38):
pass code, as a past basically a way of saying
I am me right, because if we all just relied
on some other number or something like that, then people
could find that out. There's really no good way to
do it. But social Security numbers are definitely not the answer. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I always get a little creeped out when some business,
you know, what are the last like Comcast or something
like my cable company. Yeah, we'll see what are your
last force of your social and I'll spit it out
and they'll go, okay, Right.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
You can say I don't want to tell you, I
want to answer everything else, and they'll they'll run you
through your paces.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
But they know it because they're asking you for identificing,
like right for verification.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
Exactly because you've given it to them already. You don't.
There's basically most companies don't have any legal right to
ask you what your Social Security number is, right, But
they can also say, well, we don't trust you, so
if you don't give it to us when you open
your account or whatever exactly, then you're out of luck.
(31:37):
With government agencies. You can ask for the Privacy Act
of nineteen seventy four disclose your notice, which says like, hey,
we have a legal right to ask you this or
we don't, right, and then you can say you can't
ask me that, bob.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
But yeah, all the protection advice that given here is
pretty basic. You know, don't carry your card and your wallet,
cancel credit cards you don't use, don't share.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
It way, don't necessarily repute that one. What don't we
just cancel credit cards you don't use. There are things
you should do, like keep an eye on your accounts,
your credit card accounts, even though you don't use them.
But that's not necessarily good advice, especially credit wise, because
there's this thing called the available credit to debt ratio,
(32:26):
one of the ratios that they figure your credit score with.
And if you have a clean credit card you're not
using that has like five or ten grand of available
credit on it, sure that counts, and that makes you
very attractive to people who are selling you houses or
cars or whatever. That's true, So don't necessarily go do that.
Keep them in a safe deposit box, keep an eye
on all your accounts even if you're not using them.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah. Boy, my credit rating is so good right now.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
That's awesome, dude.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
It's like top five percentile somehow. Oh yeah, and that
is I say that as a testament to you out
there who may have bad credit. You can hear it
over time.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah, you and Emily did good.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Huh uh. Well yeah, she's the one that helped me
get my good credit back. That's good as CFO.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Congratulations, man, that's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Thank you. It is good and my debts, you know,
from the past were I don't want to get into it,
but they had less to do with me and more
to do with.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Like bookies, heroin, No, like dog fighting.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Bad roommates and getting screwed over by you know, like, hey,
you were supposed to pay this Georgia power bill eight
years ago and it's still in my name and I
didn't even know about it. That kind of thing, gotcha,
And just being lazy in college, like miss, yeah, I
missed my credit card payment. No big deal, I'll just
pay it next month.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Right, I'm just gonna go buy some heroin instead. I
know you're doing in college, Chuck, not that, So I
(34:10):
guess that's about it. Huh.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yeah. One more piece of advice, which is actually good.
Every few years, go to the SSA website and request
a copy of your earnings and Benefit Estimate statement.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah. Have you heard of this before? No?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
And I've never done it, and I'm gonna go do
it today.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
All right, let's go do it together. We'll both go
do years together.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
And we'll be like what, I've been working since I
was thirteen, So I imagine I'm doing pretty good.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Nice. Oh, we didn't talk about that. The system is waited.
The whole reason it was instituted was to help make
sure that people don't fall through the cracks or whatever. Yeah,
and to help the poor more than the wealthy. Although
you get more money out the more money you put
(34:58):
in right.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Which is based on your income, so the right you make,
the more you ban.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
But it's also disproportionately weighted so that the people who
are earning the least get a disproportionate amount out to
help them, correct, Amanda, which is great. It's socialism at
its finest, as you said. So, uh yeah, that's about it.
That's social security numbers and pretty much social security. I
(35:25):
don't think any to do that again. Okay, hats off
the FDR, Pharah, new deal, great society.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Chicken in every pot that was Hoover a number on
every forehead.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
Nice Chuck, thank you. We'll end it with that one.
If you want to know more about social security numbers,
you can read this exhaustive article about them by typing
in social security in the search bar at HowStuffWorks dot com.
Which means it's time for a listener mail.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Josh, I'm gonna call this following up on zero. That
one got a lot more attention than I thought. All
the math nerds came out you were like zero, very
happy that we did that. And one such nerd emailed this.
This is Stephen, and he says, I think I might
be able to put your mind to rest on a
(36:18):
couple of those zero properties. And a lot of people
try to explain this, and I think he did the
best first, dividing by zero. I find it helpful to
think of division as separating objects into containers. See this
guy is like talking up my alley. Yeah, yeah, I
can visualize stuff a lot better this way. So if
you have five objects and five containers, you would put
(36:40):
one object in each container. You still have the same
number of objects, but divided evenly across containers. Now, if
you have five objects and no containers, in other words,
dividing by zero, you still have all the same objects,
but they have not been put anywhere. You can't say
that you'd put zero per container because it's not a
(37:03):
lack of items, but rather a lack of containers. So
dividing by zero means you have things but nothing to
contain them, so a ratio cannot be formed.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Awesome makes sense.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Right, Yeah, As for the raising to the zero zero power.
This is one because our basis of numerology is the
number one. All things larger are functions of how many
ones it holds, and all things larger define how many
need to be combined to form a one. This, combined
(37:38):
with the fact that exponents don't describe a multiplication, but
rather a number of times a base measurement will be
multiplied by a factor, means that if the base measurement
is never a multiplied by the factor, you are left
with the base alone. So there you have it. It's
tempting to think of these numbers as one to the power,
but unfortunately this is wrong.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Over that again, No, I can't.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
That is from Stephen, a junior software engineer. Thanks Steven,
so I will take him at his word.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, he sounds like he's got it down.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah, the containers. That makes total sense to me now. Yeah,
So there you have it.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
So thanks Steven, junior software engineer. We are looking forward
to you becoming a senior software engineer, likely in the
near future. From your email, and if you have some
sort of illumination about a previous podcast, doesn't matter how
old it is. We always like hearing new stuff about
old stuff. Sure, You can send it in an email
(38:40):
to stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you Should
Know is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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