November 6, 2021 • 48 mins
America loves to go nuts over new food trends and it turns out that the 20th century was a boon time for them. Revisit them with Josh and Chuck in this classic episode.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody. It's Josh and for this week's select, I
chose are surprisingly Interesting. June two thousand seventeen episode on
food fads. This episode has everything you're looking for in
a food fads episode, TV Dinners, Oprah, and Thrills, Chills, spills.
It's an odd good episode, so I hope you enjoy it.
(00:25):
Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I
Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark
with Charles W. Chuck Bryant, Jerry, Jerome Roland and Frank
the Chair. Oh Frank, it's been there the whole time.
(00:46):
You just keep quiet mostly mostly. Yeah. I don't have
my hat on today though, so I know what gives
I don't know. You know, I'm growing the hair out,
so I thought i'd just let it flow. I noticed
it looks good. Why are you growing it out? I
don't know. It just sort of started happening. Then I
was like, my brother's got good hair, is longer. Yeah,
(01:08):
I'm always trying to be more like him. Plus I
can't have a butt cut with short hair. Yeah. Plus
I mean I've had the same short, spiky hair for
like fifteen years. Time to mix it up. I know, man,
when I started growing mine out, I was like, what
am I doing? What's with this cube ball crap? I'm
so tired of all this. Let me just see what
(01:29):
it looks like, you know, with a what's that quarterback's name?
Joe with Eisman? No Joe no? Uh, Terry Bradshaw, No,
you know the one, Randall Cunningham. No, Tom Brady, tom Brady.
Despite your harassment, I still figured it out. What about
(01:50):
Tom Brady? He want his hair? I have his hair, buddy.
I don't know about that. I do me and Tom Brady? Now,
uh chuh? Yes. Did you grow up on TV dinners
at all? Really? No? My mom is wasn't is a
great cook, so she wouldn't have that. I see, I see, Wow,
(02:13):
well I did. I grew up on TV dinners and
usually when a TV dinner appeared. Seriously, you did miss out.
They were pretty amazing when you're like six seven years old.
I've had them when you were six or seven. No,
I had them like in college. Okay, so so okay,
So you understand the magic of a TV dinner, right? Sure? Alright,
(02:35):
imagine that as like a six year old. I'm sure
it was magical. All of your foods and like a
different little compartment. Nie just staring at you, waiting, like
just just wait, just wait, buddy. Um, when you're six,
it's just even better. And when I was six, if
I would get a TV dinner, it meant that my
parents were like going to do something right. They were
going to play bridge or something like that. So it
(02:57):
was like a special night and like I probably exactly right.
I'd probably get to stay up late, or there'd be
some babysitter or whatever. Um, it was always just kind
of a special thing when TV dinners made an appearance.
My parents never did anything together. They never like, they
never played cards or no. Man, I rarely had babysitters.
(03:22):
I rarely. I don't remember having babysitters. There was always
one of them there. Yeah, maybe they didn't trust you,
that they didn't like each other. They may have really
enjoyed key parties well plus yeah you never know, Um
I had I have a sister that's six years older though,
(03:42):
so ter Yeah, but they still didn't do a lot
I can remember. I can literally just think of a
few times they like went to an olibaan Newton John
concert once. Uh. They've got a pretty good track record
so far, and my mom wentnt saw Elvis but not
with my dad. Wow. Uh on that last tour or
(04:03):
two man, the uh I think they call that the
jumpsuit Integrity Tour. They hold on, let me catch my breath. Yeah,
they didn't put an undignified ending, Yeah they didn't. They
didn't do much stuff together, so I didn't get a
lot of TV dinners. I didn't get a lot of Hey,
(04:23):
there's just throw it in and warm it up. My
mom was kind of yeah, always cooking for us. Yeah, yeah, no,
my mom cooked a lot too. But now that I'm
older and looked back, I'm like us pretty convenient meal.
Like you know, she was an e R nurse for
pete sake, a weird hours and stuff. Um, but she
was a great mom. She raised me very well, as
everybody knows. It's a well known fact. So with TV
(04:49):
Dinners in particular, though, I have a certain amount of
nostalgia for him, But apparently like America as a whole
has a bit of nostalgia for TV dinners. There's a
TV dinner the Smithsonian, for Pete's sake, and that's like
America's greatest repository of nostalgia for sure, you know. Yeah,
so I think we should take people on a delightful
(05:10):
tour of the history of this wonder of TV dinners.
Yeah you sound like you're I'm not so sure. No, no, no,
I am sure. I was just joking around. Was trying
to set it up as some you know, magical experience
that everyone's about to have. But I feel like that's
ingrained in it. So as the story goes, Uh, Swanson
(05:31):
ce A Swanson and Sons was and is a leader
in the frozen food industry. And um, whether or not
this is legend, who knows, but it's a great story.
Was that uh one Thanksgiving they had too much turkey
on their hands Post Thanksgiving to the tune of something
(05:52):
like two fifty tons of turkey that they didn't sell
they overestimate, which is so sad, you know, yeah for
those nothing. Uh yeah, like we so wanted to give
our life as a meal right now, we're just on
a train. Well, yeah, that's what they did. So the
story goes, they had about they loaded it, they couldn't
(06:14):
store it. They didn't none of room and no freezer
room to store all this turkey, So they put it
on a frozen train or a refrigerated train car as
a polar express, it's called in the industry. And the
trick to this thing is is in order for that
train to stay refrigerated, it's gotta keep moving. And so
(06:34):
they basically we're just running this turkey all over the
country to keep it frozen and cold. Right, It's like
that one movie UM set in the future with Tilda Switten,
where like the train never stops, societies on the train. Yeah,
that's like that, but with frozen turkeys. That's a good movie.
So it's like that cross between that and Speed. Yes,
(06:57):
Like so if the train ever stops, it's in a
lose refrigeration, the losers refrigeration, the turkeys all go bad.
So there's this remember that Simpsons which one when Homer
is trying to describe or think of the name of
the movie Speed. He's like, it's about a about a bus.
If it's speed goes down and it can't speed up.
(07:18):
And he says it like that many times, and he goes,
I think it's called the bus that wouldn't slow down
or that couldn't slow down. Yeah, I remember that very
funny line. Um, but this is real life. Chuck, this
wasn't a cartoon or a joke. Half a million pounds
of turkey on a train and if it's topped it
(07:38):
would spoil Simpsons. No, the idea that this actually happened,
it's so insane to me. So apparently the Swanson brothers
Clark and um, what was the other brothers, Gilbert Gilbert.
I wanted to say Clark and Gable, but Clark and
Gilbert Swanson said, all right, employ ease, we need you
(08:01):
to put your heads together and come up with an idea.
So they had again this is the legend, they had
an employee contest where um, whoever could come up with
what to do with all this turkey, I guess would
just be the employee of the month or something like that. Um.
And all the while this contest is going on in
the Swanson company, there's a train out there in the
(08:24):
United States of America just circling endlessly because it can't
stop or else the turkeys will go bad until this
Winton wins. Yeah. Yeah. So there was a salesman named
Jerry Thomas g E r R Y, not like our
own j E R I right, which no one ever gets. Right. Um,
(08:47):
this is the party, I will get He traveled from
Nebraska to Pittsburgh to where Pan American Airways had their
kitchens because they were testing uh single compartment uh foil
tray meals that they would serve to people. And I
guess he couldn't envision what that might look like unless
(09:08):
he went there in person, right and steal one. Well yeah,
so yeah, it was a single compartment right. So basically
it was just a tray that you put a bunch
of food on. There were like different compartments in the tray,
and he's like, I gotta get my hands on one
of these, right, this is innovation. Yeah. I don't understand
that either, which is why his story smells a little
(09:29):
fishy to me. Um. But this, this guy, Jerry Thomas,
is the He's he's known as the inventor basically of
the TV dinner. Right. So he comes back to the
Swanson brothers and says, I got it. I've I've driven
from Pittsburgh back home, h to wherever the Swanson company
(09:49):
is located. Where am I? He famously said, Um, And
he said, and I've added two more compartments into this trace,
the three compartment trade. And I drew two lines I
know what to do with the turkey. Now we're gonna
basically sell it as a frozen Thanksgiving dinner. And they
(10:10):
said your employee of the month, Jerry. Yeah. They say, look,
you got your your potatoes and gravy here, you got
your peas here, you got your turkey here. None of
it touches each other. I'm a genius. I'm Jerry Thomas.
So this coalesce with the another UH craze, which was television,
and in nineteen fifty three there were thirty three million
(10:34):
households with televisions, and um, it was really I mean,
there have been other people that had been doing this before.
Quaker State Foods UH in ninety nine had something in
the supermarket of frozen meal called under Geez, I know,
the most the most one, I don't want to say
(10:54):
the most one of the most offensive brand names ever. Yeah,
the one eyed Eskimo label. That's that's terrible. So they
were selling those in supermarkets. And then in previous to that,
even UH the Strato plates from Maxim were being served
on airplanes, but not as a retail food. So it
had been done before. So the creation of the TV dinner, well, wait,
(11:17):
don't don't don't leave out Jack Fisher. Who Jack Fisher?
Oh right, what was that one called frigid dinners? Yes,
but they're the most depressing meal ever because they were
served in bars. Yeah, they're serving in a bar, so
you didn't have to leave to go home to eat dinner.
You could just stay and keep drinking. Oh man, there
were some bars in l A in Los Felis when
(11:38):
I lived there that around two am, the Tomali guy
would come around, So okay, that's different. Oh dude, it
was the best. I mean, they were legit handmade to
Molly's and at one was the perfect time to be
dropping into the drawing room, you know. Oh anyway, the
creation of the TV dinner was not so much that
(12:00):
it was a brand new thing, but it was. It
was a marketing success story because the TV they thought,
if we can build a sing around the television, then
we've got something on our hands. Right. That was the
key the TV making it a TV dinner, right, because
all of a sudden it was like, hey, everybody loves TV.
(12:20):
Plus this is something I didn't realize. It added a
certain amount of like cashe to the TV dinner because
if you had a TV dinner. It meant that you
had a TV. And if you had a TV, you
were probably upper middle class at the time, right, So
the idea of having a TV or a dinner to
(12:40):
go with your TV really appealed to two Americans. And
even to this day it was such a great marketing coup.
I guess that um people still call these, and like
almost any frozen entree or frozen meal, a TV dinner.
Even though it was two when Swanson stopped calling their
(13:02):
products that they still made the products, they just stopped
calling them TV dinners. Every everybody else kept calling them
TV dinner. Yeah, you were eating these in the eighties,
like twenty years after they that brand went away, still
calling TV dinners and eating them on TV trays. This
is another thing you possed out on Chuck, did you have?
So that was the whole The whole point of the
TV tray was it was a foldable individual table that
(13:26):
you would open up in front of yourself and eat
your TV dinner on while you were sitting on the couch,
so you could watch TV most efficiently while you were
eating dinner. And now they call that the coffee table.
You just stoop over a little bit right, or the
sink eating over the sink. I don't know what that is.
That's a depressing way to eat. So these are actually
(13:50):
called that was the brand, Swanson's TV brand, frozen Dinner.
And there they're big concept with the box. If you
look it up on on the internet. Was it looked
like it was designed like a little television the box
was it the t The dinner itself was like the
screen on the screen and then it had the little
dials on the bottom left and right corner and uh,
(14:10):
you know it look like a little TV right. And
it was ninety eight cents in nineteen fifty four, and
they sold a ton of them. Yeah, they apparently um
so again, remember all this came from a bunch of
turkey that was about to spoil. So Swanson start to
an industry. Swanson ordered like five thousand of them initially
(14:30):
to be made, and they hired a small battalion of
of um ladies in aprons and ice cream scoops and
spatchel is to assemble these things, right, and they just
had them go right down the assembly line and they
sold five thousand just almost immediately, and apparently in the
first year um that they were sold they sold like
(14:54):
ten million of them. So they came out with them
in nineteen fifty four, and by the end of the
first full year of production, which I guess would be nine,
they'd sold ten million of them. So they went from
initially ordering five thousand of them to selling ten million
of them in a year, so that it just hit
America just right, you know. Well, yeah, and it was
at a time where women were starting to want kind
(15:17):
of re enter the workforce. Gave them time that they
could still get that hot meal on the table, because
that was their job back then, right right. It gave
women a really great opportunity to provide a stark contrast
to the your husband's mother. Yeah. Yeah, Apparently there were
a bunch of men who were like, this isn't good enough.
I want my wife to cook from scratch like my mom.
(15:38):
Dr Freud, And if they could be like my mom
in a lot of other ways, that'd be awesome. Would
it kill her to wear a hairnut? Yeah, So apparently
it didn't delight all men because they weren't on board,
but would have killer to just me up in a diaper.
We should do an episode on that sometime. That's the thing. Oh,
(15:59):
I thought about san Freud, but on men wearing diapers
as adults. Yeah, it's for like I think it's called
diaper play for sex play, but but it's it's diaper centric. Yeah,
we should do a podcast on that just that. Well,
we can include it in like maybe a fetish one,
how about that? All right? Okay, Wow, that took a
(16:21):
weird turn, all of this, it really did. Uh geez,
you got anything else on TV Dinners? That's a good
way to end it, I think. Nope. Shall we take
a break? Yep? All right, I'm gonna go change my
diaper and we'll talk about gelatin right after this. So, Chuck,
(16:55):
you were saying that um in the last one, that uh,
that the TV dinner hit just right and struck struck
America in part because women were starting to enter the workforce, right,
and that was partially the results of World War Two.
World War two also changed things as far as food
(17:16):
and food consumption and food packaging goes, and that apparently
at the end of World War Two there were a
lot of companies that had gone all in into supplying
the troops food. And we're making pretty great money. But
apparently we're basically caught with a large amount of supply.
Um when the war ended, and they said, well, if
(17:40):
we don't figure out a way to get non wartime America,
the regular American consumer to buy this stuff, we're going
to go out of business. Were over extended basically, and
so food companies, I guess, individually and on the whole,
taught America to basically eat what had prior to that
(18:01):
point being considered field rations like spam. If you remember
that podcast that kind of was where that whole movement
was born. Yep, spam, condensed soup, um, dehydrated stuff, freeze,
dried stuff, like. All of this came out of basically
an overstock of World War two food supplies that were
intended for troops and we're kind of repackaged and rearranged
(18:23):
to be served to the American consumer. And part of
that also was that same thing that TV Dinner struck,
which which was convenient. You know, like, hey, your your
husband still wants a meal and your your family still
expects you to be the one to to cook for him. Um,
but now you have to work. So what are you
gonna do? Well, we have we have something helpful for you,
(18:46):
and it's called convenience food. And one of the big
convenience foods that came out of the post war era.
But really it started to gather steam before then was gelatin. Yeah,
specifically jello as the name brand, but gelatine. The word
is from Latin gelatas, meaning jellied froze. And uh. It
(19:06):
was first used in Egypt, but it was really first
used in cooking in France. And um, you know, I
think most people know this by now, but if you don't, Um,
gelatine is as a protein and it's uh it's produced
from collagen from boiling animal bones, yeah, or hoofs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,
(19:30):
So it's a it's glutinous basically, and it can go
one of two ways, I think, depending on what you
do with it. You can turn it into glue or
you can turn it into food. That's never a good start, no,
it really you know. Yeah. And a guy from the
I think the seventeenth century in France, what was his name, Peppin,
(19:51):
someone Peppin, Dennis Poppine, who may or may not be
related to Jacques Pepin. It was great and French. He's
also a cook. Um. He was the first person to
mention it in writing. I believe, Uh, and then it
just kind of sat there for a while until the
nineteenth century, when I guess people were aware of gelatine
(20:14):
and that you could use it as a food, but
it was extraordinarily gourmet, like the average person was not
making jello at home. It was very time consuming. You
had to start from scratch and boil animal bones to
start the process of gelatine. It was the exact opposite
of how we think of gelatine today, which is instantaneous. Yeah.
(20:37):
So in the nineteenth century, um, there this guy named
Peter Cooper uh figured out a way to turn gelatine
into a powder form, a dehydrated gelatine powder. Um, and
it went absolutely nowhere for fifty years. And I was
surprised to find this out. I knew gelatine was pretty old,
(20:58):
but it's it's interesting how it's just kind of moved
along in these very slow little fits and starts, like
no one would give up on it. No, it was interesting,
which is weird because it's really disgusting if you think
about it. It should have been given up on, yeah,
and it never was. It's a very bizarre invention. It
almost makes you feel like there was some sort of
divine hand guiding gelatine along in its progress. Yeah. So
(21:21):
later on in eut named Charles Knox, uh kind of
revolutionized things when he found came up with a process
that resulted in a dried sheet of gelatine, and he
hired salesman to go door to door to show women like, hey,
you can add liquid to these sheets. You can make desserts,
you can make aspects, which is a really gross word.
(21:45):
I think it is. It's not it's pretty. It's a
gross thing. It's a savory gelatine. Yeah, which we'll get
to that. But uh. A couple of years later, Rose Knox,
which was that his wife, I guess yes, published a
book called Dainty Dessert Hurts, which is a book of recipes,
and things were kind of moving along a little bit. Um.
(22:06):
Then there was a cough syrup company in New York
called Pearl Pearl b wait is that what it's called?
Pearl way? W W A I T. But they weren't
so much cough syrups. So he said, all right, let's
get into the food business. And uh, the wife, whose
(22:27):
name was May, said, you know, let me add some
fruit syrups to this stuff. And actually she's the one
who named it Jello. She came up with that name,
but they didn't succeed either, and sold that to their neighbor.
Uh Francis, is that the whole name? Or Tor Francis
Woodward for four hundred and fifty bucks. This person purchased
(22:50):
the name in name brand Jello, right, and he almost
fell victim to the curse of Jello as well. Right.
He could do nothing with it either, um despite some
early attempts. He apparently tried to sell it to his
supervisor at work for thirty five bucks even though he
paid four and fifty to it for it. So at
(23:11):
some point I guess he decided to give it another
go and he hired a bunch of traveling salesman, sent
them out to fairs, community gatherings, that kind of stuff,
and said, teach the people how to make the jello.
And this time it started to stick. Actually, Jello, Jello
kind of um hit at just the right time. Finally,
(23:34):
I should say, the world was finally ready for Jello.
Part of it had to do with, um, refrigeration, Yeah,
for sure, once you know, refrigeration is key for jello,
as we all know, right, And once those technologies were developed,
it kind of Uh well, it formed literally, it all
congealed and figuratively. Uh. And then once advertising started taking over,
(23:57):
like in the mid nineteen thirties, uh, General foods Um
had a very famous radio ad from Jack Binny, the
j E L l O tag, which really kind of
helped push things along as well. Yeah, and I noticed
that at some point they started dabbling with with other flavors.
I think originally they tried strawberry, raspberry, orange, and lemon, right, um.
(24:19):
And then they tried chocolate and they they apparently chocolate
didn't go over very well, so they released no. First
they just released it as chocolate jello. That's pretty awful.
And then they thought, oh, maybe we should add milk
instead of water, and that's when they came up with
jello pudding and they re released chocolate and that that
spurred like a whole pudding line, including something I grew
(24:42):
up on, which was butterscotch jello pudding. Oh yeah, man,
that was so good, except you you couldn't. You had
to get the skin off. The skin was no good,
But everything under the skin was great. What was the skin?
It was just like a on top. It was a
very it was the tougher layer on top. Yeah, but
if you just scraped it off, you had some nice
(25:03):
pudding underneath. Emily still loves the uh the brown, the
chocolate jello pudding. Yeah, it's good. Yeah. She'll make a
parfait like you know, a little a little putting, a
little whipped cream, little pudding, little whipped cream. She knows
how to live. She does. It's a special night that
happens about three times a year, and I'm like, oh boy,
fight time. Uh So in the nineteen fifties, uh, supposedly
(25:27):
the jello shot with alcohol was invented by uh, this
really interesting guy named Tom Larer, who, um, he was
a mathematician and a singer songwriter who I looked into him.
He did song parodies about math and chemistry. I guess
he was like the Jonathan Colton of his day as
far as I can tell. And he was also in
(25:48):
the army and to get around alcohol restrictions. As the
story goes, he claims he invented the jello shot, which
I've never had. Uh what, I've never had a jello shot? Wow,
Well you're not missing much of a pretty gross well jello.
I can't stand jello well even if you do, even
if you like or or ambivalent to jello, it's it's
(26:10):
just gross. Does it taste like, yeah, it's or whatever.
It's a very obnoxious taste you're supposed to use, Like
I think you're a place half of the water with
whatever liquor you're using. Usually people use vodka. It really
just stands out in a in a noxious way. By
the way, Tom Larra, I thought that name sounded familiar.
(26:30):
He um, he is pretty great. He wrote this one
um song called The Old Dope Peddler and two Chains. Actually, um,
you know the rapper two Chains from Atlanta? No, yes
you do? Oh wait was he our guy? Was he
the guy that judged that? No? Man? Who was that guy?
(26:51):
That was young Jock? Right now? Two Chains is he's huge? Man. Um.
He did a song where he sampled the Old Dope
Peddler and he, I guess wrote to Tom Laird to
ask for permission to sample it. Tom Lair had this
awesome famous response, So just read up on that. What
was did he let him use it? Yes? Oh great,
So he's the opposite of Don Henley and probably every
(27:15):
single way Yeah yeah, uh but jello shots, Yes, jello
shots are gross. So jello is speeding along. It's uh,
it's taking over America. Um. And then they decided to
come out with these savory lines and it became uh
and this was this post World War two thing that
(27:36):
you were talking about when UM, I guess they did what.
There was this great article you sent making and eating
the nineteen fifties most nauseating jello soaked recipes from collector
Yeah Hunter Hunter Oatmund Stanford, and uh they did this
interview and um with Ruth Clark. Yeah, Ruth Clark. Basically
(27:57):
it's a really good interview and she talks about kind
of this savory movement that took over, and not only
with jello, but the fact that it was a time
in America where and if you look back, it's so
great to look back at these old ads and these
old recipe books that it was a time where you
would the goal was to have a dinner party with
(28:18):
this big, flashy, uh experimental and unique centerpiece food centerpiece
made of jello, well, jell all kinds of things. We're
talking about the hot dog tree right yeah, there and
there there. It could be a lot of different stuff.
And I think that's what Ruth Clark does she recreates
this stuff right, and her poor husband has to eat it. Um.
(28:40):
But a lot of those things were jello molds, and
a lot of the reason why jello molds were so
weird and so popular is because Jello put so much
time and effort into publishing cookbooks. And the whole point
was all of these food companies wanted, like all of
their products to to be your entire meal, So they
(29:01):
were putting these these random part like products that the
food company made into some really weird configurations, and they
came up with some very odd jello molds in the
fifties or sixties. Such a sad culinary time it was.
But the Ruth Clark makes a good point that that
to the people at that time, like a really well
(29:23):
thought out, fancy jello mold was as a centerpiece of
your table, was like the pinnacle of classiness. Yeah, but
we're talking about like a shaped mold with like uh
lamb shank and asparagus inside of jello. A savory jello
that's like celery flavored. You're lucky if it was savory.
(29:45):
The lime jello is one of the most abused jello
flavors of all time. People would put tuna and stuff
in with the lime jello. There's one called Perfection Salad
that's cold slaw inside of law, I'm jello. And what
Ruth Clark pointed out was that gelatine apparently preserves food
(30:06):
really well, and and that cole slaw that would have
otherwise been inedible and running after day three was still
like crunchy after day five when it was put inside
of a jello mold, so still gross. Yeah. There's actually
a great BuzzFeed article, um if you want to get
an idea of what people were doing in the fifties, sixties,
and seventies with jello molds. It's called seventeen Horrifying Lee
(30:28):
Disgusting Retro Gelatine recipes, and they are gross. Man like
cottage cheese and salmon mold. Yeah, yeah, I mean I
hate jello. Oh Man's like you're waking nightmare. I didn't
even look through it. You sent it to me, and
that's scrolled about halfway through and just deleted through my
computer out the window. The best one I see is
(30:48):
lime cheese salad. It's it's lime jello mixed with cottage
cheese and then into the center of the jello mold.
You put a seafood salad, Oh my god, sour krout mold.
It just goes on and on. But it was a
weird time. And again Ruth Clark has a bunch of theories.
She said she can't really answer exactly why jello molds
(31:09):
were as big as they are, but she posits that, uh,
part of it was this idea that there were all
these companies trying to get you to use their products,
and these were just monstrosities that they came up with,
and people fell for it, like can salmon, can tuna
in jello? Right, Oh my god, So that's jello molds. Man, Uh,
(31:35):
where do you want to head next? Let's go to
the crock pot. All right, Dot, that was a crock
pot travel. So first of all, I have a croc
pot the same here and um as yours. Actually croc
Pot are using it as a proprietary eponym. I don't
(31:56):
think it is a croc Pot brand pot. Yeah, it's
a slocaler um and I'd forget to use it a lot,
But when I remember, I'll go in a little crock
pot binge where I'll cook, you know, a few meals
over the course of a few weeks in a croc pot,
and they're still great if you know how to how
(32:16):
to use it and how to spice things up, for sure.
You know, apparently at first people didn't know because if
you're cooking a recipe, say, um, it's like simmering, say
like a beef stew on the stovetop, that simmering action
that it's going undergoing, it does something different to the
(32:38):
recipe than a croc pot does, even though it's the
exact same recipe. Um. And so at first, when crock
pots came out, it was first introduced by rival back
in when crock pots first came out, um, they people
were like, this is this This dinner that it's making
is really gross. It doesn't taste very good. It's bland,
(33:00):
and yet they still didn't stop using or buying crock pots. Well,
food was more bland back then. Well we're talking the seventies,
So by the seventies, I think it was people were
using more spices than before. I think it was more bland,
and like the forties and maybe the fifties. Yeah, but
that one, yeah, you're probably right, But that one article
we read said, you know, like an old recipe for
(33:22):
chili would have like a teaspoon of chili powder or something,
and it's like all the food just sucked because they
didn't realize, like, no, man, you dump a bunch of
that junk in there. So well, you were saying. Back
in the forties or fifties when TV Dinners really hit,
moms were starting to enter the work force in one
moms were really into the workforce. And so the idea
(33:45):
of having a crock pot where you could make this
meal in a one pot in the morning, throw it
all in there, turn it on, and then come home
at the end of the day and dinner was ready
and you still went to work and got everything you
needed to get done done was so attractive that just that,
despite the fact that it made these meals that did
not taste like they should um, people were still, like
(34:09):
I said, they were still buying the crock pots, and
instead they started to look around to find tips for
how to make these things taste better. And actually, a
woman named what was her name, Mabel, Yeah, Mabel Hoffman,
Mabel Hoffman stepped into the fray and said, peace piece, children,
I've got this covered. Listen up. Yeah. She wrote a
book called The Crockery cookery or crockery cookery. No, the
(34:34):
and uh it was a huge, huge hit, was the
New York Times bestseller. I believe she went on to
sell about six million copies of this thing. And UM,
I don't even think we've said that, you know, we
said we you throw the food in there and cook
it all day. But the whole idea is that you
put a kind of a tight fitting lid on there
and it and it cooks at a very very low
(34:56):
heat all day long, right, and then when you when
you get home from work eight hours later or something
like that, it will it will be done. You just
serve and smile. Yeah, And thanks to Crockery Cookery. UM,
the crock pot uh in nineteen seventy one or two
million bucks in ten million, seventy three, twenty three million,
(35:17):
and then eventually peaking in nineteen seventy five at ninety
three million dollars worth of croc pots being sold. It
was a genuine legit craze food craze and supposedly croc
pot cookery. The book was UM America's sixth best selling
cookbook ever. Right, so this was like a legitimate craze.
Crock Pot cooking was a legitimate craze, but again there
(35:40):
was something compared to the same recipes on the stovetop
as compared to a croc pot um, there was something.
It was the flavor was just disappointing. So what Mabel
Hoffman did was on a very tight deadline um create
from scratch a book, I guess, the world's first cookbook
of slow cooker rest piece. And she did it in
(36:01):
her own kitchen with like twenty crock pots going all
day every day. She had to testing all this stuff,
and she figured out some of the keys to crock
pot cooking, which was, like, you want to use way
less liquid um then you would use like on the
stovetop because you have a lot less um evaporation. The
crock pot keeps it in there, which is one reason
(36:23):
why meat is so so tender in a croc pot
or slow cooker um because it just recirculates the the
moisture rather than allowing it to just evaporate. Right. And
then another thing she came up with was that when
you um, when you use herbs into the recipe, you
want to reserve some of them for right before the
(36:43):
things finished cooking, so you can add it like a
pop of fresh flavor. So once she figured this out,
crock pots just took off even more. Yeah, so she
was they were selling a bunch of crock pots, she
was selling a bunch of cookbooks. Uh. And eventually she
would said, hey, I really was into something here. So
she wrote deep frye cookery, chocolate cookery. Uh, and these
(37:05):
are um seventy seven like kind of all in a
row crape cookery, and then eventually healthy healthy crockery cookery
and um. The person he who interviewed her later in
life said that she was just this really great lady,
(37:26):
very humble, and was super upfront about the fact that
she like, hey, I hit something at the right time
with the right book, and it just sort of I
kind of fell into this and it's been just like
a wonderful thing for my life. Yeah, it's really neat. Yeah,
she sounds like a pretty cool person. So what's your
what's your crock pot recipe? Oh, jeez, I don't know
(37:46):
it's your favorite thing to cook? But usually some sort
of like beef. Yeah, it's just does such a such
a good job, like making a roast or something, you know. Um,
but yeah, I that's usually what I'm cooking. When I
cook in the crock pot? Is is beef all right?
Josh's crock pot beef crock pot surprise right with aspect
(38:10):
You want to take a break, Yeah, let's take a
break and we'll finish up with a bit interesting bit
on oat brand, So Chuck, Yes, we finally arrived. We're
(38:38):
just gonna go forward a few years. Blue the way
Back machine is in the shop. This is why I'm
having to do it to the eighties man an oat brand. Yes,
I know that we differ on the interesting nous of
this one. I'm just fascinated by it. I really yeah, man,
(38:59):
because it's got it all. It's like, um, it's got
the eighties. Um. Do you remember that snl the famous
snl um add colon for colon blow that was based
on this came out of this this trend. Um has
to do with studies, studies that contradict those studies. Um,
(39:21):
bad science reporting the whole thing. I love it, Oh brand,
It's very important. So there was this huge trend in
the eighties where anything that had to do with O
brand you could sell a million units of a minute. Yes, um,
so much so that there was a article from Tulsa
(39:44):
World that um said that there are no I'm sorry.
The l A Times article from said that they were
over like three hundred different items available in grocery stores
at the time that touted on its label the fact
that it had oprand and people were not uts for it.
Yes they were. And this is uh largely due to
some studies that came out that said that brand was
(40:08):
kind of a miracle food for lowering cholesterol, right, And
that was like back in the late seventies, and and
I guess Quaker Oats took notice of those studies and
they released a thing called Mother's Oh Brand, but they
sent it straight to the hippies at the health food
store and just and didn't do anything about They just
released a product and that was that. And then Kellogg's
(40:29):
came along and said, hey, you know what, what if
we start telling people that are food can basically prevent cancer?
Can we do that? And the lawyers said no, and
the president of Kelloggs said, well, we're doing it anyway.
Who's going to stop us? Reagan? And Reagan said no,
I'm not going to stop you. That was a good Reagan,
thank you, And so they said, um, okay, well, you
(40:52):
eat our cereal and it will reduce cancer. And nothing happened.
There was no blowback, despite the fact that this had
been illegal for nearly a century. And then Quaker Oats
partnered with Chicago's Northwestern University and Linda van horn In
because they had a similar study about o brand cutting cholesterol. Right,
(41:13):
so they're starting to say, well, Kelley didn't get in trouble,
let's try this ourselves. And they went out and they
hired Wilfred Brimley. Remember his ads. Yeah, I think I
told the story about working with him. Oh yeah, wasn't
he like the antithesis of what his his persona was. Yeah,
the word got around they were like this, you know,
just maybe a short day, because that's how it goes
(41:35):
with them sometimes it's so funny, and I think it was.
I think we wrapped it about half day because he
was just like, I'm done, I'm cantankerous. But in the meantime,
when the cameras were rolling, he he told everybody that
eating quicker opra and was the right thing to do
and it would cut your cholesterol, that's right. And then
this book came out, so things are starting to build
here for opra and this book came out called The
(41:56):
Eight Week Cholesterol Cure by a guy named Robert E. Kowalski,
and it chronicled his the decline of his l d
L the bad cholesterol UM, just from eating an O
brand diet. And that book became extraordinarily popular. Supposedly it
was the the one of the greatest selling self help
(42:18):
health books of all time. It just took off. And
then yet another thing happened, and this was the thing.
This is like where the peak began the UM. I
think the Journal of the American Medical Association April published
a study from the University of Maryland where these researchers
(42:38):
found that, yeah, eating O brand could really significantly lower
your cholesterol, and not only that, it does it for
a six of the price of the expensive cholesterol lowering drugs.
That's right, and people ate even more OAT brand, That's right.
The trend is developing, can you see it. I think
it's fully developed at this point. So everybody's going OPR
(43:02):
and crazy. And one of the big things that UM
that they were doing was eating OPR and muffins. But
these opra and muffins were like loaded with fat and
butter and eggs, and so they weren't actually doing anything
to lower their cholesterol because the effects would be counteracted. Suckers, right.
But in the in the meantime, people were still having fun,
(43:24):
eating lots of muffins and pretending they were really healthy.
And then this Harvard study came out and it basically said,
you know what, Um, you're all fools, you're dummies. You
know how it lowers your cholesterol because it keeps you
from eating bacon and eggs. That's how you chumps. Well yeah,
And then that study itself was was attacked because they
only studied twenty people, um, which is not much of
(43:46):
a study. It isn't and the people who were on
the opran diet were eating more fat than the control group.
It was a terrible study, almost like they wanted to
take Opran down a peg and it worked really well. Basically,
the science reporting in major newspapers and the news services
(44:06):
reported that Oprand was the greatest thing ever, and then
they suddenly turned on it and said Oprand is nothing,
and everybody dropped Oprand and that if if you read
this stuff today, it's true, oprand really does lower cholesterol. Um,
but he just got overhyped because of the eighties. That's
the eighties for you. That's food fads. Man, You got
(44:29):
anything else? I got nothing else? All right? Man? Well,
if you want to know more about food fads, you
can type those words into the search bar at how
stuff works dot Com said search bar. I'm gonna get
much though, so you may want to just look elsewhere.
But still, uh. Since I said that, it's time for
a listener mail, I'm gonna call this MS response, and
(44:53):
I would like to say that we got many, many
great responses from our MS episode. A lot of warm
thought from people about my friend Billy and just uh,
it's just really great people with MS, people who had
people in their family. We heard from doctors and nurses,
and that's just ended up being a really good episode.
(45:13):
So we appreciate that feedback. But this is from anonymous listener. Hey,
I've been listening to your show for a couple of
years now. I want to thank you for making my
commute more engaging. Listened to the show on MS am
I right home and like to commend you for how
well you handled the topic. I was diagnosed a few
years ago at nineteen. Uh. Luckily my diagnosis was quick
(45:33):
due to the severity of my first relapse, and I
feel like your podcast would have helped me understanding cope
with the diagnosis and more constructive manner than my initially
trying to self destruct. Since then, I'm continually UH learning
about the latest research in history. I love that you
discussed uh Ledwina and Augustus dis Day, as a lot
of the time they don't come up in the mainstream
(45:54):
discourse of MS. Didn't really know any history until I
wrote an undergrad history paper on MS last year and
found reading through bits of death Day's journal to be
the closest I've ever felt with a historical person. You
mentioned that many tend to keep their diagnosis a secret.
I'll admit that with me, it's a need to know basis,
and I rarely openly talk about it outside of family, friends,
(46:15):
in the support system, and my support system, mainly because
of the stigma of the disease and that the assumptions
circulating MS tend to negatively alter people's perceptions of myself
as an individual. Have had people approach me when I
start limping thanks to fatigue and a permanently numb foot,
but I'll rush it off and tell them there's nothing
to worry about, or it's an old injury. However, I
(46:37):
think with time it's getting easier to talk about thanks
to resources like your podcast that are well researched and accurate.
I cringe whenever someone tells me there's an easy homeopathic
solution to my ailments, and sometimes I struggle with discussing
MS in an accessible way that doesn't solely rely on
the clinical pathological understanding of it. And I will be
(46:57):
sure in the future to redirect people to this episode.
Thank you so much for sharing and uh, we said
we keep this anonymous because this person was close. Yeah,
this person said, you know, that's great that you read it.
But if if they're keeping it quiet for now, we
don't want to, you know, broadcast the nage. Sure. Yeah, nice,
(47:20):
So thank you Anonymous. Yeah, thanks a nonymus. Uh. If
you want to get in touch with us, like anonymous did,
you can tweet to us that s Y s K podcast.
You can hang out with Chuck on Facebook dot com
slash Stuff you Should Know, or at Charles W. Chuck
Bryant on Facebook. You can send us both an email. Uh.
We promised to be confidential at Stuff podcast at House
(47:43):
Stuffworks dot com and has always joined us at at
home on the web. Stuff you Should Know dot Com
Stuff you Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
Hello everybody. It's Josh and for this week's select, I
chose are surprisingly Interesting. June two thousand seventeen episode on
food fads. This episode has everything you're looking for in
a food fads episode, TV Dinners, Oprah, and Thrills, Chills, spills.
It's an odd good episode, so I hope you enjoy it.
(00:25):
Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I
Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark
with Charles W. Chuck Bryant, Jerry, Jerome Roland and Frank
the Chair. Oh Frank, it's been there the whole time.
(00:46):
You just keep quiet mostly mostly. Yeah. I don't have
my hat on today though, so I know what gives
I don't know. You know, I'm growing the hair out,
so I thought i'd just let it flow. I noticed
it looks good. Why are you growing it out? I
don't know. It just sort of started happening. Then I
was like, my brother's got good hair, is longer. Yeah,
(01:08):
I'm always trying to be more like him. Plus I
can't have a butt cut with short hair. Yeah. Plus
I mean I've had the same short, spiky hair for
like fifteen years. Time to mix it up. I know, man,
when I started growing mine out, I was like, what
am I doing? What's with this cube ball crap? I'm
so tired of all this. Let me just see what
(01:29):
it looks like, you know, with a what's that quarterback's name?
Joe with Eisman? No Joe no? Uh, Terry Bradshaw, No,
you know the one, Randall Cunningham. No, Tom Brady, tom Brady.
Despite your harassment, I still figured it out. What about
(01:50):
Tom Brady? He want his hair? I have his hair, buddy.
I don't know about that. I do me and Tom Brady? Now,
uh chuh? Yes. Did you grow up on TV dinners
at all? Really? No? My mom is wasn't is a
great cook, so she wouldn't have that. I see, I see, Wow,
(02:13):
well I did. I grew up on TV dinners and
usually when a TV dinner appeared. Seriously, you did miss out.
They were pretty amazing when you're like six seven years old.
I've had them when you were six or seven. No,
I had them like in college. Okay, so so okay,
So you understand the magic of a TV dinner, right? Sure? Alright,
(02:35):
imagine that as like a six year old. I'm sure
it was magical. All of your foods and like a
different little compartment. Nie just staring at you, waiting, like
just just wait, just wait, buddy. Um, when you're six,
it's just even better. And when I was six, if
I would get a TV dinner, it meant that my
parents were like going to do something right. They were
going to play bridge or something like that. So it
(02:57):
was like a special night and like I probably exactly right.
I'd probably get to stay up late, or there'd be
some babysitter or whatever. Um, it was always just kind
of a special thing when TV dinners made an appearance.
My parents never did anything together. They never like, they
never played cards or no. Man, I rarely had babysitters.
(03:22):
I rarely. I don't remember having babysitters. There was always
one of them there. Yeah, maybe they didn't trust you,
that they didn't like each other. They may have really
enjoyed key parties well plus yeah you never know, Um
I had I have a sister that's six years older though,
(03:42):
so ter Yeah, but they still didn't do a lot
I can remember. I can literally just think of a
few times they like went to an olibaan Newton John
concert once. Uh. They've got a pretty good track record
so far, and my mom wentnt saw Elvis but not
with my dad. Wow. Uh on that last tour or
(04:03):
two man, the uh I think they call that the
jumpsuit Integrity Tour. They hold on, let me catch my breath. Yeah,
they didn't put an undignified ending, Yeah they didn't. They
didn't do much stuff together, so I didn't get a
lot of TV dinners. I didn't get a lot of Hey,
(04:23):
there's just throw it in and warm it up. My
mom was kind of yeah, always cooking for us. Yeah, yeah, no,
my mom cooked a lot too. But now that I'm
older and looked back, I'm like us pretty convenient meal.
Like you know, she was an e R nurse for
pete sake, a weird hours and stuff. Um, but she
was a great mom. She raised me very well, as
everybody knows. It's a well known fact. So with TV
(04:49):
Dinners in particular, though, I have a certain amount of
nostalgia for him, But apparently like America as a whole
has a bit of nostalgia for TV dinners. There's a
TV dinner the Smithsonian, for Pete's sake, and that's like
America's greatest repository of nostalgia for sure, you know. Yeah,
so I think we should take people on a delightful
(05:10):
tour of the history of this wonder of TV dinners.
Yeah you sound like you're I'm not so sure. No, no, no,
I am sure. I was just joking around. Was trying
to set it up as some you know, magical experience
that everyone's about to have. But I feel like that's
ingrained in it. So as the story goes, Uh, Swanson
(05:31):
ce A Swanson and Sons was and is a leader
in the frozen food industry. And um, whether or not
this is legend, who knows, but it's a great story.
Was that uh one Thanksgiving they had too much turkey
on their hands Post Thanksgiving to the tune of something
(05:52):
like two fifty tons of turkey that they didn't sell
they overestimate, which is so sad, you know, yeah for
those nothing. Uh yeah, like we so wanted to give
our life as a meal right now, we're just on
a train. Well, yeah, that's what they did. So the
story goes, they had about they loaded it, they couldn't
(06:14):
store it. They didn't none of room and no freezer
room to store all this turkey, So they put it
on a frozen train or a refrigerated train car as
a polar express, it's called in the industry. And the
trick to this thing is is in order for that
train to stay refrigerated, it's gotta keep moving. And so
(06:34):
they basically we're just running this turkey all over the
country to keep it frozen and cold. Right, It's like
that one movie UM set in the future with Tilda Switten,
where like the train never stops, societies on the train. Yeah,
that's like that, but with frozen turkeys. That's a good movie.
So it's like that cross between that and Speed. Yes,
(06:57):
Like so if the train ever stops, it's in a
lose refrigeration, the losers refrigeration, the turkeys all go bad.
So there's this remember that Simpsons which one when Homer
is trying to describe or think of the name of
the movie Speed. He's like, it's about a about a bus.
If it's speed goes down and it can't speed up.
(07:18):
And he says it like that many times, and he goes,
I think it's called the bus that wouldn't slow down
or that couldn't slow down. Yeah, I remember that very
funny line. Um, but this is real life. Chuck, this
wasn't a cartoon or a joke. Half a million pounds
of turkey on a train and if it's topped it
(07:38):
would spoil Simpsons. No, the idea that this actually happened,
it's so insane to me. So apparently the Swanson brothers
Clark and um, what was the other brothers, Gilbert Gilbert.
I wanted to say Clark and Gable, but Clark and
Gilbert Swanson said, all right, employ ease, we need you
(08:01):
to put your heads together and come up with an idea.
So they had again this is the legend, they had
an employee contest where um, whoever could come up with
what to do with all this turkey, I guess would
just be the employee of the month or something like that. Um.
And all the while this contest is going on in
the Swanson company, there's a train out there in the
(08:24):
United States of America just circling endlessly because it can't
stop or else the turkeys will go bad until this
Winton wins. Yeah. Yeah. So there was a salesman named
Jerry Thomas g E r R Y, not like our
own j E R I right, which no one ever gets. Right. Um,
(08:47):
this is the party, I will get He traveled from
Nebraska to Pittsburgh to where Pan American Airways had their
kitchens because they were testing uh single compartment uh foil
tray meals that they would serve to people. And I
guess he couldn't envision what that might look like unless
(09:08):
he went there in person, right and steal one. Well yeah,
so yeah, it was a single compartment right. So basically
it was just a tray that you put a bunch
of food on. There were like different compartments in the tray,
and he's like, I gotta get my hands on one
of these, right, this is innovation. Yeah. I don't understand
that either, which is why his story smells a little
(09:29):
fishy to me. Um. But this, this guy, Jerry Thomas,
is the He's he's known as the inventor basically of
the TV dinner. Right. So he comes back to the
Swanson brothers and says, I got it. I've I've driven
from Pittsburgh back home, h to wherever the Swanson company
(09:49):
is located. Where am I? He famously said, Um, And
he said, and I've added two more compartments into this trace,
the three compartment trade. And I drew two lines I
know what to do with the turkey. Now we're gonna
basically sell it as a frozen Thanksgiving dinner. And they
(10:10):
said your employee of the month, Jerry. Yeah. They say, look,
you got your your potatoes and gravy here, you got
your peas here, you got your turkey here. None of
it touches each other. I'm a genius. I'm Jerry Thomas.
So this coalesce with the another UH craze, which was television,
and in nineteen fifty three there were thirty three million
(10:34):
households with televisions, and um, it was really I mean,
there have been other people that had been doing this before.
Quaker State Foods UH in ninety nine had something in
the supermarket of frozen meal called under Geez, I know,
the most the most one, I don't want to say
(10:54):
the most one of the most offensive brand names ever. Yeah,
the one eyed Eskimo label. That's that's terrible. So they
were selling those in supermarkets. And then in previous to that,
even UH the Strato plates from Maxim were being served
on airplanes, but not as a retail food. So it
had been done before. So the creation of the TV dinner, well, wait,
(11:17):
don't don't don't leave out Jack Fisher. Who Jack Fisher?
Oh right, what was that one called frigid dinners? Yes,
but they're the most depressing meal ever because they were
served in bars. Yeah, they're serving in a bar, so
you didn't have to leave to go home to eat dinner.
You could just stay and keep drinking. Oh man, there
were some bars in l A in Los Felis when
(11:38):
I lived there that around two am, the Tomali guy
would come around, So okay, that's different. Oh dude, it
was the best. I mean, they were legit handmade to
Molly's and at one was the perfect time to be
dropping into the drawing room, you know. Oh anyway, the
creation of the TV dinner was not so much that
(12:00):
it was a brand new thing, but it was. It
was a marketing success story because the TV they thought,
if we can build a sing around the television, then
we've got something on our hands. Right. That was the
key the TV making it a TV dinner, right, because
all of a sudden it was like, hey, everybody loves TV.
(12:20):
Plus this is something I didn't realize. It added a
certain amount of like cashe to the TV dinner because
if you had a TV dinner. It meant that you
had a TV. And if you had a TV, you
were probably upper middle class at the time, right, So
the idea of having a TV or a dinner to
(12:40):
go with your TV really appealed to two Americans. And
even to this day it was such a great marketing coup.
I guess that um people still call these, and like
almost any frozen entree or frozen meal, a TV dinner.
Even though it was two when Swanson stopped calling their
(13:02):
products that they still made the products, they just stopped
calling them TV dinners. Every everybody else kept calling them
TV dinner. Yeah, you were eating these in the eighties,
like twenty years after they that brand went away, still
calling TV dinners and eating them on TV trays. This
is another thing you possed out on Chuck, did you have?
So that was the whole The whole point of the
TV tray was it was a foldable individual table that
(13:26):
you would open up in front of yourself and eat
your TV dinner on while you were sitting on the couch,
so you could watch TV most efficiently while you were
eating dinner. And now they call that the coffee table.
You just stoop over a little bit right, or the
sink eating over the sink. I don't know what that is.
That's a depressing way to eat. So these are actually
(13:50):
called that was the brand, Swanson's TV brand, frozen Dinner.
And there they're big concept with the box. If you
look it up on on the internet. Was it looked
like it was designed like a little television the box
was it the t The dinner itself was like the
screen on the screen and then it had the little
dials on the bottom left and right corner and uh,
(14:10):
you know it look like a little TV right. And
it was ninety eight cents in nineteen fifty four, and
they sold a ton of them. Yeah, they apparently um
so again, remember all this came from a bunch of
turkey that was about to spoil. So Swanson start to
an industry. Swanson ordered like five thousand of them initially
(14:30):
to be made, and they hired a small battalion of
of um ladies in aprons and ice cream scoops and
spatchel is to assemble these things, right, and they just
had them go right down the assembly line and they
sold five thousand just almost immediately, and apparently in the
first year um that they were sold they sold like
(14:54):
ten million of them. So they came out with them
in nineteen fifty four, and by the end of the
first full year of production, which I guess would be nine,
they'd sold ten million of them. So they went from
initially ordering five thousand of them to selling ten million
of them in a year, so that it just hit
America just right, you know. Well, yeah, and it was
at a time where women were starting to want kind
(15:17):
of re enter the workforce. Gave them time that they
could still get that hot meal on the table, because
that was their job back then, right right. It gave
women a really great opportunity to provide a stark contrast
to the your husband's mother. Yeah. Yeah, Apparently there were
a bunch of men who were like, this isn't good enough.
I want my wife to cook from scratch like my mom.
(15:38):
Dr Freud, And if they could be like my mom
in a lot of other ways, that'd be awesome. Would
it kill her to wear a hairnut? Yeah, So apparently
it didn't delight all men because they weren't on board,
but would have killer to just me up in a diaper.
We should do an episode on that sometime. That's the thing. Oh,
(15:59):
I thought about san Freud, but on men wearing diapers
as adults. Yeah, it's for like I think it's called
diaper play for sex play, but but it's it's diaper centric. Yeah,
we should do a podcast on that just that. Well,
we can include it in like maybe a fetish one,
how about that? All right? Okay, Wow, that took a
(16:21):
weird turn, all of this, it really did. Uh geez,
you got anything else on TV Dinners? That's a good
way to end it, I think. Nope. Shall we take
a break? Yep? All right, I'm gonna go change my
diaper and we'll talk about gelatin right after this. So, Chuck,
(16:55):
you were saying that um in the last one, that uh,
that the TV dinner hit just right and struck struck
America in part because women were starting to enter the workforce, right,
and that was partially the results of World War Two.
World War two also changed things as far as food
(17:16):
and food consumption and food packaging goes, and that apparently
at the end of World War Two there were a
lot of companies that had gone all in into supplying
the troops food. And we're making pretty great money. But
apparently we're basically caught with a large amount of supply.
Um when the war ended, and they said, well, if
(17:40):
we don't figure out a way to get non wartime America,
the regular American consumer to buy this stuff, we're going
to go out of business. Were over extended basically, and
so food companies, I guess, individually and on the whole,
taught America to basically eat what had prior to that
(18:01):
point being considered field rations like spam. If you remember
that podcast that kind of was where that whole movement
was born. Yep, spam, condensed soup, um, dehydrated stuff, freeze,
dried stuff, like. All of this came out of basically
an overstock of World War two food supplies that were
intended for troops and we're kind of repackaged and rearranged
(18:23):
to be served to the American consumer. And part of
that also was that same thing that TV Dinner struck,
which which was convenient. You know, like, hey, your your
husband still wants a meal and your your family still
expects you to be the one to to cook for him. Um,
but now you have to work. So what are you
gonna do? Well, we have we have something helpful for you,
(18:46):
and it's called convenience food. And one of the big
convenience foods that came out of the post war era.
But really it started to gather steam before then was gelatin. Yeah,
specifically jello as the name brand, but gelatine. The word
is from Latin gelatas, meaning jellied froze. And uh. It
(19:06):
was first used in Egypt, but it was really first
used in cooking in France. And um, you know, I
think most people know this by now, but if you don't, Um,
gelatine is as a protein and it's uh it's produced
from collagen from boiling animal bones, yeah, or hoofs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,
(19:30):
So it's a it's glutinous basically, and it can go
one of two ways, I think, depending on what you
do with it. You can turn it into glue or
you can turn it into food. That's never a good start, no,
it really you know. Yeah. And a guy from the
I think the seventeenth century in France, what was his name, Peppin,
(19:51):
someone Peppin, Dennis Poppine, who may or may not be
related to Jacques Pepin. It was great and French. He's
also a cook. Um. He was the first person to
mention it in writing. I believe, Uh, and then it
just kind of sat there for a while until the
nineteenth century, when I guess people were aware of gelatine
(20:14):
and that you could use it as a food, but
it was extraordinarily gourmet, like the average person was not
making jello at home. It was very time consuming. You
had to start from scratch and boil animal bones to
start the process of gelatine. It was the exact opposite
of how we think of gelatine today, which is instantaneous. Yeah.
(20:37):
So in the nineteenth century, um, there this guy named
Peter Cooper uh figured out a way to turn gelatine
into a powder form, a dehydrated gelatine powder. Um, and
it went absolutely nowhere for fifty years. And I was
surprised to find this out. I knew gelatine was pretty old,
(20:58):
but it's it's interesting how it's just kind of moved
along in these very slow little fits and starts, like
no one would give up on it. No, it was interesting,
which is weird because it's really disgusting if you think
about it. It should have been given up on, yeah,
and it never was. It's a very bizarre invention. It
almost makes you feel like there was some sort of
divine hand guiding gelatine along in its progress. Yeah. So
(21:21):
later on in eut named Charles Knox, uh kind of
revolutionized things when he found came up with a process
that resulted in a dried sheet of gelatine, and he
hired salesman to go door to door to show women like, hey,
you can add liquid to these sheets. You can make desserts,
you can make aspects, which is a really gross word.
(21:45):
I think it is. It's not it's pretty. It's a
gross thing. It's a savory gelatine. Yeah, which we'll get
to that. But uh. A couple of years later, Rose Knox,
which was that his wife, I guess yes, published a
book called Dainty Dessert Hurts, which is a book of recipes,
and things were kind of moving along a little bit. Um.
(22:06):
Then there was a cough syrup company in New York
called Pearl Pearl b wait is that what it's called?
Pearl way? W W A I T. But they weren't
so much cough syrups. So he said, all right, let's
get into the food business. And uh, the wife, whose
(22:27):
name was May, said, you know, let me add some
fruit syrups to this stuff. And actually she's the one
who named it Jello. She came up with that name,
but they didn't succeed either, and sold that to their neighbor.
Uh Francis, is that the whole name? Or Tor Francis
Woodward for four hundred and fifty bucks. This person purchased
(22:50):
the name in name brand Jello, right, and he almost
fell victim to the curse of Jello as well. Right.
He could do nothing with it either, um despite some
early attempts. He apparently tried to sell it to his
supervisor at work for thirty five bucks even though he
paid four and fifty to it for it. So at
(23:11):
some point I guess he decided to give it another
go and he hired a bunch of traveling salesman, sent
them out to fairs, community gatherings, that kind of stuff,
and said, teach the people how to make the jello.
And this time it started to stick. Actually, Jello, Jello
kind of um hit at just the right time. Finally,
(23:34):
I should say, the world was finally ready for Jello.
Part of it had to do with, um, refrigeration, Yeah,
for sure, once you know, refrigeration is key for jello,
as we all know, right, And once those technologies were developed,
it kind of Uh well, it formed literally, it all
congealed and figuratively. Uh. And then once advertising started taking over,
(23:57):
like in the mid nineteen thirties, uh, General foods Um
had a very famous radio ad from Jack Binny, the
j E L l O tag, which really kind of
helped push things along as well. Yeah, and I noticed
that at some point they started dabbling with with other flavors.
I think originally they tried strawberry, raspberry, orange, and lemon, right, um.
(24:19):
And then they tried chocolate and they they apparently chocolate
didn't go over very well, so they released no. First
they just released it as chocolate jello. That's pretty awful.
And then they thought, oh, maybe we should add milk
instead of water, and that's when they came up with
jello pudding and they re released chocolate and that that
spurred like a whole pudding line, including something I grew
(24:42):
up on, which was butterscotch jello pudding. Oh yeah, man,
that was so good, except you you couldn't. You had
to get the skin off. The skin was no good,
But everything under the skin was great. What was the skin?
It was just like a on top. It was a
very it was the tougher layer on top. Yeah, but
if you just scraped it off, you had some nice
(25:03):
pudding underneath. Emily still loves the uh the brown, the
chocolate jello pudding. Yeah, it's good. Yeah. She'll make a
parfait like you know, a little a little putting, a
little whipped cream, little pudding, little whipped cream. She knows
how to live. She does. It's a special night that
happens about three times a year, and I'm like, oh boy,
fight time. Uh So in the nineteen fifties, uh, supposedly
(25:27):
the jello shot with alcohol was invented by uh, this
really interesting guy named Tom Larer, who, um, he was
a mathematician and a singer songwriter who I looked into him.
He did song parodies about math and chemistry. I guess
he was like the Jonathan Colton of his day as
far as I can tell. And he was also in
(25:48):
the army and to get around alcohol restrictions. As the
story goes, he claims he invented the jello shot, which
I've never had. Uh what, I've never had a jello shot? Wow,
Well you're not missing much of a pretty gross well jello.
I can't stand jello well even if you do, even
if you like or or ambivalent to jello, it's it's
(26:10):
just gross. Does it taste like, yeah, it's or whatever.
It's a very obnoxious taste you're supposed to use, Like
I think you're a place half of the water with
whatever liquor you're using. Usually people use vodka. It really
just stands out in a in a noxious way. By
the way, Tom Larra, I thought that name sounded familiar.
(26:30):
He um, he is pretty great. He wrote this one
um song called The Old Dope Peddler and two Chains. Actually, um,
you know the rapper two Chains from Atlanta? No, yes
you do? Oh wait was he our guy? Was he
the guy that judged that? No? Man? Who was that guy?
(26:51):
That was young Jock? Right now? Two Chains is he's huge? Man. Um.
He did a song where he sampled the Old Dope
Peddler and he, I guess wrote to Tom Laird to
ask for permission to sample it. Tom Lair had this
awesome famous response, So just read up on that. What
was did he let him use it? Yes? Oh great,
So he's the opposite of Don Henley and probably every
(27:15):
single way Yeah yeah, uh but jello shots, Yes, jello
shots are gross. So jello is speeding along. It's uh,
it's taking over America. Um. And then they decided to
come out with these savory lines and it became uh
and this was this post World War two thing that
(27:36):
you were talking about when UM, I guess they did what.
There was this great article you sent making and eating
the nineteen fifties most nauseating jello soaked recipes from collector
Yeah Hunter Hunter Oatmund Stanford, and uh they did this
interview and um with Ruth Clark. Yeah, Ruth Clark. Basically
(27:57):
it's a really good interview and she talks about kind
of this savory movement that took over, and not only
with jello, but the fact that it was a time
in America where and if you look back, it's so
great to look back at these old ads and these
old recipe books that it was a time where you
would the goal was to have a dinner party with
(28:18):
this big, flashy, uh experimental and unique centerpiece food centerpiece
made of jello, well, jell all kinds of things. We're
talking about the hot dog tree right yeah, there and
there there. It could be a lot of different stuff.
And I think that's what Ruth Clark does she recreates
this stuff right, and her poor husband has to eat it. Um.
(28:40):
But a lot of those things were jello molds, and
a lot of the reason why jello molds were so
weird and so popular is because Jello put so much
time and effort into publishing cookbooks. And the whole point
was all of these food companies wanted, like all of
their products to to be your entire meal, So they
(29:01):
were putting these these random part like products that the
food company made into some really weird configurations, and they
came up with some very odd jello molds in the
fifties or sixties. Such a sad culinary time it was.
But the Ruth Clark makes a good point that that
to the people at that time, like a really well
(29:23):
thought out, fancy jello mold was as a centerpiece of
your table, was like the pinnacle of classiness. Yeah, but
we're talking about like a shaped mold with like uh
lamb shank and asparagus inside of jello. A savory jello
that's like celery flavored. You're lucky if it was savory.
(29:45):
The lime jello is one of the most abused jello
flavors of all time. People would put tuna and stuff
in with the lime jello. There's one called Perfection Salad
that's cold slaw inside of law, I'm jello. And what
Ruth Clark pointed out was that gelatine apparently preserves food
(30:06):
really well, and and that cole slaw that would have
otherwise been inedible and running after day three was still
like crunchy after day five when it was put inside
of a jello mold, so still gross. Yeah. There's actually
a great BuzzFeed article, um if you want to get
an idea of what people were doing in the fifties, sixties,
and seventies with jello molds. It's called seventeen Horrifying Lee
(30:28):
Disgusting Retro Gelatine recipes, and they are gross. Man like
cottage cheese and salmon mold. Yeah, yeah, I mean I
hate jello. Oh Man's like you're waking nightmare. I didn't
even look through it. You sent it to me, and
that's scrolled about halfway through and just deleted through my
computer out the window. The best one I see is
(30:48):
lime cheese salad. It's it's lime jello mixed with cottage
cheese and then into the center of the jello mold.
You put a seafood salad, Oh my god, sour krout mold.
It just goes on and on. But it was a
weird time. And again Ruth Clark has a bunch of theories.
She said she can't really answer exactly why jello molds
(31:09):
were as big as they are, but she posits that, uh,
part of it was this idea that there were all
these companies trying to get you to use their products,
and these were just monstrosities that they came up with,
and people fell for it, like can salmon, can tuna
in jello? Right, Oh my god, So that's jello molds. Man, Uh,
(31:35):
where do you want to head next? Let's go to
the crock pot. All right, Dot, that was a crock
pot travel. So first of all, I have a croc
pot the same here and um as yours. Actually croc
Pot are using it as a proprietary eponym. I don't
(31:56):
think it is a croc Pot brand pot. Yeah, it's
a slocaler um and I'd forget to use it a lot,
But when I remember, I'll go in a little crock
pot binge where I'll cook, you know, a few meals
over the course of a few weeks in a croc pot,
and they're still great if you know how to how
(32:16):
to use it and how to spice things up, for sure.
You know, apparently at first people didn't know because if
you're cooking a recipe, say, um, it's like simmering, say
like a beef stew on the stovetop, that simmering action
that it's going undergoing, it does something different to the
(32:38):
recipe than a croc pot does, even though it's the
exact same recipe. Um. And so at first, when crock
pots came out, it was first introduced by rival back
in when crock pots first came out, um, they people
were like, this is this This dinner that it's making
is really gross. It doesn't taste very good. It's bland,
(33:00):
and yet they still didn't stop using or buying crock pots. Well,
food was more bland back then. Well we're talking the seventies,
So by the seventies, I think it was people were
using more spices than before. I think it was more bland,
and like the forties and maybe the fifties. Yeah, but
that one, yeah, you're probably right, But that one article
we read said, you know, like an old recipe for
(33:22):
chili would have like a teaspoon of chili powder or something,
and it's like all the food just sucked because they
didn't realize, like, no, man, you dump a bunch of
that junk in there. So well, you were saying. Back
in the forties or fifties when TV Dinners really hit,
moms were starting to enter the work force in one
moms were really into the workforce. And so the idea
(33:45):
of having a crock pot where you could make this
meal in a one pot in the morning, throw it
all in there, turn it on, and then come home
at the end of the day and dinner was ready
and you still went to work and got everything you
needed to get done done was so attractive that just that,
despite the fact that it made these meals that did
not taste like they should um, people were still, like
(34:09):
I said, they were still buying the crock pots, and
instead they started to look around to find tips for
how to make these things taste better. And actually, a
woman named what was her name, Mabel, Yeah, Mabel Hoffman,
Mabel Hoffman stepped into the fray and said, peace piece, children,
I've got this covered. Listen up. Yeah. She wrote a
book called The Crockery cookery or crockery cookery. No, the
(34:34):
and uh it was a huge, huge hit, was the
New York Times bestseller. I believe she went on to
sell about six million copies of this thing. And UM,
I don't even think we've said that, you know, we
said we you throw the food in there and cook
it all day. But the whole idea is that you
put a kind of a tight fitting lid on there
and it and it cooks at a very very low
(34:56):
heat all day long, right, and then when you when
you get home from work eight hours later or something
like that, it will it will be done. You just
serve and smile. Yeah, And thanks to Crockery Cookery. UM,
the crock pot uh in nineteen seventy one or two
million bucks in ten million, seventy three, twenty three million,
(35:17):
and then eventually peaking in nineteen seventy five at ninety
three million dollars worth of croc pots being sold. It
was a genuine legit craze food craze and supposedly croc
pot cookery. The book was UM America's sixth best selling
cookbook ever. Right, so this was like a legitimate craze.
Crock Pot cooking was a legitimate craze, but again there
(35:40):
was something compared to the same recipes on the stovetop
as compared to a croc pot um, there was something.
It was the flavor was just disappointing. So what Mabel
Hoffman did was on a very tight deadline um create
from scratch a book, I guess, the world's first cookbook
of slow cooker rest piece. And she did it in
(36:01):
her own kitchen with like twenty crock pots going all
day every day. She had to testing all this stuff,
and she figured out some of the keys to crock
pot cooking, which was, like, you want to use way
less liquid um then you would use like on the
stovetop because you have a lot less um evaporation. The
crock pot keeps it in there, which is one reason
(36:23):
why meat is so so tender in a croc pot
or slow cooker um because it just recirculates the the
moisture rather than allowing it to just evaporate. Right. And
then another thing she came up with was that when
you um, when you use herbs into the recipe, you
want to reserve some of them for right before the
(36:43):
things finished cooking, so you can add it like a
pop of fresh flavor. So once she figured this out,
crock pots just took off even more. Yeah, so she
was they were selling a bunch of crock pots, she
was selling a bunch of cookbooks. Uh. And eventually she
would said, hey, I really was into something here. So
she wrote deep frye cookery, chocolate cookery. Uh, and these
(37:05):
are um seventy seven like kind of all in a
row crape cookery, and then eventually healthy healthy crockery cookery
and um. The person he who interviewed her later in
life said that she was just this really great lady,
(37:26):
very humble, and was super upfront about the fact that
she like, hey, I hit something at the right time
with the right book, and it just sort of I
kind of fell into this and it's been just like
a wonderful thing for my life. Yeah, it's really neat. Yeah,
she sounds like a pretty cool person. So what's your
what's your crock pot recipe? Oh, jeez, I don't know
(37:46):
it's your favorite thing to cook? But usually some sort
of like beef. Yeah, it's just does such a such
a good job, like making a roast or something, you know. Um,
but yeah, I that's usually what I'm cooking. When I
cook in the crock pot? Is is beef all right?
Josh's crock pot beef crock pot surprise right with aspect
(38:10):
You want to take a break, Yeah, let's take a
break and we'll finish up with a bit interesting bit
on oat brand, So Chuck, Yes, we finally arrived. We're
(38:38):
just gonna go forward a few years. Blue the way
Back machine is in the shop. This is why I'm
having to do it to the eighties man an oat brand. Yes,
I know that we differ on the interesting nous of
this one. I'm just fascinated by it. I really yeah, man,
(38:59):
because it's got it all. It's like, um, it's got
the eighties. Um. Do you remember that snl the famous
snl um add colon for colon blow that was based
on this came out of this this trend. Um has
to do with studies, studies that contradict those studies. Um,
(39:21):
bad science reporting the whole thing. I love it, Oh brand,
It's very important. So there was this huge trend in
the eighties where anything that had to do with O
brand you could sell a million units of a minute. Yes, um,
so much so that there was a article from Tulsa
(39:44):
World that um said that there are no I'm sorry.
The l A Times article from said that they were
over like three hundred different items available in grocery stores
at the time that touted on its label the fact
that it had oprand and people were not uts for it.
Yes they were. And this is uh largely due to
some studies that came out that said that brand was
(40:08):
kind of a miracle food for lowering cholesterol, right, And
that was like back in the late seventies, and and
I guess Quaker Oats took notice of those studies and
they released a thing called Mother's Oh Brand, but they
sent it straight to the hippies at the health food
store and just and didn't do anything about They just
released a product and that was that. And then Kellogg's
(40:29):
came along and said, hey, you know what, what if
we start telling people that are food can basically prevent cancer?
Can we do that? And the lawyers said no, and
the president of Kelloggs said, well, we're doing it anyway.
Who's going to stop us? Reagan? And Reagan said no,
I'm not going to stop you. That was a good Reagan,
thank you, And so they said, um, okay, well, you
(40:52):
eat our cereal and it will reduce cancer. And nothing happened.
There was no blowback, despite the fact that this had
been illegal for nearly a century. And then Quaker Oats
partnered with Chicago's Northwestern University and Linda van horn In
because they had a similar study about o brand cutting cholesterol. Right,
(41:13):
so they're starting to say, well, Kelley didn't get in trouble,
let's try this ourselves. And they went out and they
hired Wilfred Brimley. Remember his ads. Yeah, I think I
told the story about working with him. Oh yeah, wasn't
he like the antithesis of what his his persona was. Yeah,
the word got around they were like this, you know,
just maybe a short day, because that's how it goes
(41:35):
with them sometimes it's so funny, and I think it was.
I think we wrapped it about half day because he
was just like, I'm done, I'm cantankerous. But in the meantime,
when the cameras were rolling, he he told everybody that
eating quicker opra and was the right thing to do
and it would cut your cholesterol, that's right. And then
this book came out, so things are starting to build
here for opra and this book came out called The
(41:56):
Eight Week Cholesterol Cure by a guy named Robert E. Kowalski,
and it chronicled his the decline of his l d
L the bad cholesterol UM, just from eating an O
brand diet. And that book became extraordinarily popular. Supposedly it
was the the one of the greatest selling self help
(42:18):
health books of all time. It just took off. And
then yet another thing happened, and this was the thing.
This is like where the peak began the UM. I
think the Journal of the American Medical Association April published
a study from the University of Maryland where these researchers
(42:38):
found that, yeah, eating O brand could really significantly lower
your cholesterol, and not only that, it does it for
a six of the price of the expensive cholesterol lowering drugs.
That's right, and people ate even more OAT brand, That's right.
The trend is developing, can you see it. I think
it's fully developed at this point. So everybody's going OPR
(43:02):
and crazy. And one of the big things that UM
that they were doing was eating OPR and muffins. But
these opra and muffins were like loaded with fat and
butter and eggs, and so they weren't actually doing anything
to lower their cholesterol because the effects would be counteracted. Suckers, right.
But in the in the meantime, people were still having fun,
(43:24):
eating lots of muffins and pretending they were really healthy.
And then this Harvard study came out and it basically said,
you know what, Um, you're all fools, you're dummies. You
know how it lowers your cholesterol because it keeps you
from eating bacon and eggs. That's how you chumps. Well yeah,
And then that study itself was was attacked because they
only studied twenty people, um, which is not much of
(43:46):
a study. It isn't and the people who were on
the opran diet were eating more fat than the control group.
It was a terrible study, almost like they wanted to
take Opran down a peg and it worked really well. Basically,
the science reporting in major newspapers and the news services
(44:06):
reported that Oprand was the greatest thing ever, and then
they suddenly turned on it and said Oprand is nothing,
and everybody dropped Oprand and that if if you read
this stuff today, it's true, oprand really does lower cholesterol. Um,
but he just got overhyped because of the eighties. That's
the eighties for you. That's food fads. Man, You got
(44:29):
anything else? I got nothing else? All right? Man? Well,
if you want to know more about food fads, you
can type those words into the search bar at how
stuff works dot Com said search bar. I'm gonna get
much though, so you may want to just look elsewhere.
But still, uh. Since I said that, it's time for
a listener mail, I'm gonna call this MS response, and
(44:53):
I would like to say that we got many, many
great responses from our MS episode. A lot of warm
thought from people about my friend Billy and just uh,
it's just really great people with MS, people who had
people in their family. We heard from doctors and nurses,
and that's just ended up being a really good episode.
(45:13):
So we appreciate that feedback. But this is from anonymous listener. Hey,
I've been listening to your show for a couple of
years now. I want to thank you for making my
commute more engaging. Listened to the show on MS am
I right home and like to commend you for how
well you handled the topic. I was diagnosed a few
years ago at nineteen. Uh. Luckily my diagnosis was quick
(45:33):
due to the severity of my first relapse, and I
feel like your podcast would have helped me understanding cope
with the diagnosis and more constructive manner than my initially
trying to self destruct. Since then, I'm continually UH learning
about the latest research in history. I love that you
discussed uh Ledwina and Augustus dis Day, as a lot
of the time they don't come up in the mainstream
(45:54):
discourse of MS. Didn't really know any history until I
wrote an undergrad history paper on MS last year and
found reading through bits of death Day's journal to be
the closest I've ever felt with a historical person. You
mentioned that many tend to keep their diagnosis a secret.
I'll admit that with me, it's a need to know basis,
and I rarely openly talk about it outside of family, friends,
(46:15):
in the support system, and my support system, mainly because
of the stigma of the disease and that the assumptions
circulating MS tend to negatively alter people's perceptions of myself
as an individual. Have had people approach me when I
start limping thanks to fatigue and a permanently numb foot,
but I'll rush it off and tell them there's nothing
to worry about, or it's an old injury. However, I
(46:37):
think with time it's getting easier to talk about thanks
to resources like your podcast that are well researched and accurate.
I cringe whenever someone tells me there's an easy homeopathic
solution to my ailments, and sometimes I struggle with discussing
MS in an accessible way that doesn't solely rely on
the clinical pathological understanding of it. And I will be
(46:57):
sure in the future to redirect people to this episode.
Thank you so much for sharing and uh, we said
we keep this anonymous because this person was close. Yeah,
this person said, you know, that's great that you read it.
But if if they're keeping it quiet for now, we
don't want to, you know, broadcast the nage. Sure. Yeah, nice,
(47:20):
So thank you Anonymous. Yeah, thanks a nonymus. Uh. If
you want to get in touch with us, like anonymous did,
you can tweet to us that s Y s K podcast.
You can hang out with Chuck on Facebook dot com
slash Stuff you Should Know, or at Charles W. Chuck
Bryant on Facebook. You can send us both an email. Uh.
We promised to be confidential at Stuff podcast at House
(47:43):
Stuffworks dot com and has always joined us at at
home on the web. Stuff you Should Know dot Com
Stuff you Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart
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