December 5, 2018 • 14 mins
They don’t actually disarm mines, but navies around the world use dolphins to find and tag sea mines so humans can disarm the mines themselves. But even if it’s safe, is it ethical?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, and welcome to these short stuff. There's Chuck, there's Josh,
that's me, and there's Jerry over there. Uh, no time
to talk any further. Let's get started. We're talking about
dolphins disarming by Are you gonna do that every time
as long as I get a laugh out of you? Yeah,
I will laugh every time. Well, then every time it
is because I'm laughing, because then we do this and
(00:24):
it takes more time than it does. I hadn't thought
about that. Yeah, maybe I will stop doing that because
I really do feel like pressed for time, Like you
can see him perspiring across the top of my lip. Hey,
let me try Josh Clark introw. Okay, hey, Josh, have
you ever seen a dolphin? Yes? I have, Chuck feels
(00:45):
like it does. It's kind of exhilarating. Yeah, especially when
you know that that the other person has seen or
done or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, you're in the club. So
we've both seen dolphins. We have. Uh, and I knew
about this. Uh. What we're talking about here is the
fact that the U. S. Navy uses dolphins to find
(01:08):
unexploded underwater ocean minds, right, And I knew about this,
but uh, you know it was kind of cool just
to see how exactly this works. It was well also
to think a lot of people have the impression that
the dolphins are there, like you know, they're sweating themselves,
they're wiping sweats from their their brows. They're disarming these
minds right like by like my flipper can't even hold
(01:31):
these plyers right or was it the green wire or
the red wire I'm supposed to clip? But that's all right,
that's not the case at all. They don't actually disarm
the minds. They don't even really get that close to it.
What they do is they go find minds for like
the U. S. Navy. It's not just the U. S.
Navy that does this. Apparently, um Russia captured Ukraine's dolphin
(01:52):
patrol in Crimea and the Crimean War. Recently they used
Dolph Landgren. He can't swim, terrible joke. He sings like
a stone. He he does. He doesn't like you would
be a swimmer, does he? He know he's too he's
got too much like muscle, you know, which I mean
sounds counterintuitive, but yeah, he does look like he would
(02:14):
sink for sure. Uh yeah, So what do you say
Russians use him. I'm sure other people do too. Rite
a lot of people do. And again it's they're not
using them to disarm the mind. They're using them to
find minds. And the reason they use dolphins to find
minds is because there are um there's no technology that
we have that comes even close to rivaling a dolphins
(02:34):
ability to find something in very murky water with a
lot of loud acoustic noise and um that that may
be disguised to look like something else. And minds fall
under all three of those categories. Yeah, so what a
dolphin does and we'll get to how they do it,
But they are trained to do this specifically with just
(02:56):
like they would be at uh at stinky old Sea
World with like you know, fish is their real board
to do their little tricks. But they learned to search
for these mines. Find one and like you said, they
could be like fifty ft away. It's not like they
have to go knock on it or anything like that,
and it probably wouldn't explode anyway. Um. So they go
(03:16):
find one, they swim back to the boat and ring
a bell or you know, some sort of signifier that
they've worked out. They set off a firework, they shoot
a flare at the captain. Uh. And then the human says,
all right, good job. Your work is not quite done though,
because all you're doing is saying there's something down there.
Now here is a uh, an acoustic transponder, and uh,
(03:41):
you go take this. He puts it in his little fist,
and then the dolphins swims back to the mine and
now they have you know, it's like it's a transponder,
so they actually know where it is now, right, And
then they come back and they get the fish, which
is really what they're they're kind of after. If you
remember our Star Dogs episode, it's it's kind the thing
like they're after a fish. They know if they go
(04:02):
do this, they'll get a fish. And people think dolphins
are smart. They don't. They're dumb because they don't realize
there's fish everywhere in that ocean. So, chuck, how how
would a dolphin do this kind of thing? Why is
a dolphins so much so, so vastly superior to anything
that humans can come up with technology wise? Well, humans
are pretty good at coming up with technology. Frankly, that
(04:25):
is correct. But um, we use sonar, and they use sonar.
But they've been using sonar a lot longer than we've
been using sonar. That's the point of this article. That
really is sort of it. Like they mean, dolphins have
been around way longer than we've been using sonar, and
that's there their chief I mean, I guess it's sort
(04:46):
of a communication device. Oh yeah, definitely is. They communicate,
But it's also the way that they see I guess
it's the best way you could put it. They see
what they're there, well, they don't have ears. They see
with we normally, what might think of these things that
we might hear? Yeah, and that's why it's so tough
to kind of wrap your head around what they're doing.
(05:07):
But if you think about it, if if our vision
is nothing but a bunch of electrical impulses stimulated by
light that forms like a mental conception of an object
in our brain, that's exactly what dolphins are doing. But
they're doing it with sound. They're shooting out like a
kind of thing, and when it comes back, it tells
them about that object and it forms an impression in
(05:30):
their brain just like we do. Visually. They do orally,
but not through the mouth, I mean orally a a
really well put uh yeah, and supposedly they are so
good at this kind of echolocation that they can tell
the difference from fifty feet away between a BB gun
pellet being dropped in the water and a kernel of
(05:51):
corn being dropped in the water. Yeah, which is again,
now we're starting to reach the point where it's like, Okay,
now I see why they're so much better than than
our technology. Like, I can see that. I could if
you put a baby in a corner of a kernel
of corn next to each other fifty ft away, I
can do that. I can see that. But if the
visibility underwater, sure could, all right, if the visibility underwater
(06:12):
is like two ft in front of your face, you
couldn't do that. A dolphin could, which is why they
come in handy, right. And so we talked about echo
location with bats before. Uh, and I feel like with
something else, but definitely with bats. That was one of
our great long form episodes, probably whales Whales episode, Yeah,
probably so. But dolphins used the same process. Um, they
(06:36):
use their nasal passages and they make that little clicking
sound that you did so well. Uh, they send it
to the forehead and that focuses the sound into like
a beam that shoots out into the water. Let's step one. Yeah,
and then what happens after that, well after that because
it's echo location, you know, it works just like with
the bats. Things bounce off and come back to them. Uh.
(06:59):
In case of bats, it's you know, mosquitoes and things
like that, or or stupid humans with tennis rackets. Um,
it bounces back to the dolphin as that echo and
then they absorb that into their jaw like a tennis racket,
like it's oh no, poor dolphin, poor dolphin. Uh. And
this part is kind of gross sounding, but there is
(07:20):
a um what Jane McGrath referred to as a passage
of fat in the jaw, and that's just really just
a conductor that conducts the sound to the inner ear
of the dolphin, which and then all the nerve impulses
get going and then the brain starts firing. And like
you said, just like we see something, they can say, wow,
that thing is around like a bb or it's shaped
(07:44):
kernel shaped like a corn kernel, or where they go, hey,
it's a c mine that things are gonna blow. I better,
or that's a fish. I don't even need to go
back to the boat, right, I can eat so chuck, Um,
let's take an ad break and then we will come
back and we'll talk about how not everybody's super hip
with the idea of using dolphins in war. Okay, we're back,
(08:30):
and like I said, not everybody is really happy that
the U. S. Navy is using dolphins. And actually, I
should say, real quick, Chuck, I want to fit this in. Um. Oh,
I shouldn't have even said I wanted to fit it in.
That's using up valuable time. So I the Navy started
using dolphins quite by accident. I guess in nineteen sixty
there was a study where they started paying attention to dolphins.
(08:54):
They started to study them, like I just said, and um,
they were trying to figure out if they could learn
anything from offense to make torpedoes more I guess aqua
dynamic so that they could move through the water horse
you look to a dolphin, right, And they didn't learn
anything for torpedoes, but they were like, wait, these things
are super smart and they have amazing echo location. Maybe
(09:15):
we should figure out something else for him. And they
put them into use. Um pretty shortly after that they
started training them. They said, they're pretty smart. But here's
the hitch. They don't realize they're surrounded by fish in
the ocean, right, They think they can only get them
from this stupid bucket on the boat. It's also possibly
just really lazy. Maybe maybe like if I had, like
I can go to a grocery store, but if I
(09:36):
had if I was laying on the couch and someone
dropped by and dropped food in my mouth, right exactly
all over it. Yeah, that's a really good analogy. I
get it now. So um, alright, First of all, we
we already said that they don't disarm them, and they
don't even get that close. So you might think that
even animal rights activists would be like, hey, this is fine.
(09:56):
They're not getting close even if they did. Like I
said before, they're not going to explode, because they're meant
to explode when a ship hits it, not you know,
any octopus kind of floating by, because that would defeat
the purpose of putting a mine in the ocean. Right. Uh.
So you would think like, all right, what's the harm then,
But it turns out there actually is quite a bit
of harm that could that could come about. Yeah, because
(10:17):
if you have a trained team of dolphins that you
know you're using in one place, say the Atlantic, and
you suddenly need them over in the Pacific. You gotta
get them from point A to point B and there's
there's Dolphins may not be acclimated to the Pacific, especially
if it's like the Northern Pacific and it's super cold
and they're used to the Middle Atlantic where it's relatively warm. Right,
(10:41):
That's one thing. Another thing is transporting them there alone
is an ordeal for the dolphins. Yeah. I mean, anyone
who's ever seen a whale or a dolphin or a
big shark like wrapped up in that that sling being
like lifted out of the ocean into a plane or
something to a tank. It's just like it looks awful.
(11:03):
Nothing about that makes it look like that any of
those animals are psyched that that's happening. Right. Air travel
is designed for humans, and it's a nightmare for humans, right,
Imagine what it's like for a dolphin. Yea, at some
points a lot of stress on their body and there
you know, it might sound hippie dippie, but on their
emotional well being, you know, on their earth spirit and
(11:27):
well we've talked about zukos. This it's a real thing.
Oh yeah, for sure, for sure, And I would imagine
that if you want to drive a dolphin insane, there
are worse ways to do that than putting it on
an airplane taking it for a ride about. And there
were um, there was actually uh, they were going to
use some dolphins as part of a dolphin sea lion team.
(11:49):
Sea lion or seal. One of the two. Think we'll
sea lions do this as well. Then it was a
dolphins sea lion team. They actually have can There are
naval teams made up of sea lions and dolphins work
together that not only discover minds, they're also trained to
discover like underwater saboteurs, divers swimmers who aren't supposed to
be there that want to like blow up a military station.
(12:11):
And the dolphin will go find the guy, go tell
the sea lion. The sea lion goes and puts an
ankle cuff on the swimmers shut up, I'm not kidding,
and they're tethered to a boat now like so the
sea lion goes and arrests the guy and then they
both go tell the navy that you got you got
someone on the line. So the dolphins doing like some
(12:31):
trick in front of the guy and he's like, wow,
I mean, I know I'm supposed to plant this bomb,
but that's pretty neat looking. And then he looks down
and he's like, oh again dolphins and then the sea
lion and the dolphin high five. Yeah, but that's so.
They were going to set up a patrol in the
in Puget Sound in Washington State. There's an army port there,
(12:53):
and uh, they were going to set up patrols, and
the I think some animal rights group said nope, not
on our watch, and to raise public awareness, they started
knitting sweaters for the dolphins. We're going to be transported
to the to the cold water. And it worked for
a little while. I think that that they have those
things now, yeah, I'm sure there's a work around. So
(13:14):
that's that is dolphins disarming minds, which they don't actually do.
Correct the dolphins find the minds and h and many
many people are still not too supportive of that, right, yeah,
because I mean they're innocence and they have no idea
what the wars, what's going on with the war. You know,
they don't know what they're being used for. It's just
it's a moral quandary for sure. Yeah. The one thing
(13:36):
I couldn't find really quick before we go is what
minds are disguised as. One thing I saw. The only
thing I saw was that they can be disguised to
appear like ripples in the water. And I'm like, how
would you do that? And then I realized, oh, i'm
sonar it would look like a ripple in the water.
So I think they were talking about disguising them. I'm
(13:58):
sure they do visually as well, but I think mostly
on sonars how they try to disguise on interesting. Yeah,
I would love to meet the person who's like, I
know how to disguise the mind as a ripple in water. Yeah,
that makes more sense. I was thinking like they would
make it look like a big floating kelp mass. Yeah,
so was I at first. And they might, but I
(14:20):
couldn't find anything like that. I was the only thing
for him. Very nice. Uh. Well, if you want to
know more about dolphins disarming sea mines, hang around in
the sea. See what happens. Uh, And in the meantime,
get in touch with us. You can send us an
email to Stuff Podcast at how Stuff works dot com.
Hey, and welcome to these short stuff. There's Chuck, there's Josh,
that's me, and there's Jerry over there. Uh, no time
to talk any further. Let's get started. We're talking about
dolphins disarming by Are you gonna do that every time
as long as I get a laugh out of you? Yeah,
I will laugh every time. Well, then every time it
is because I'm laughing, because then we do this and
(00:24):
it takes more time than it does. I hadn't thought
about that. Yeah, maybe I will stop doing that because
I really do feel like pressed for time, Like you
can see him perspiring across the top of my lip. Hey,
let me try Josh Clark introw. Okay, hey, Josh, have
you ever seen a dolphin? Yes? I have, Chuck feels
(00:45):
like it does. It's kind of exhilarating. Yeah, especially when
you know that that the other person has seen or
done or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, you're in the club. So
we've both seen dolphins. We have. Uh, and I knew
about this. Uh. What we're talking about here is the
fact that the U. S. Navy uses dolphins to find
(01:08):
unexploded underwater ocean minds, right, And I knew about this,
but uh, you know it was kind of cool just
to see how exactly this works. It was well also
to think a lot of people have the impression that
the dolphins are there, like you know, they're sweating themselves,
they're wiping sweats from their their brows. They're disarming these
minds right like by like my flipper can't even hold
(01:31):
these plyers right or was it the green wire or
the red wire I'm supposed to clip? But that's all right,
that's not the case at all. They don't actually disarm
the minds. They don't even really get that close to it.
What they do is they go find minds for like
the U. S. Navy. It's not just the U. S.
Navy that does this. Apparently, um Russia captured Ukraine's dolphin
(01:52):
patrol in Crimea and the Crimean War. Recently they used
Dolph Landgren. He can't swim, terrible joke. He sings like
a stone. He he does. He doesn't like you would
be a swimmer, does he? He know he's too he's
got too much like muscle, you know, which I mean
sounds counterintuitive, but yeah, he does look like he would
(02:14):
sink for sure. Uh yeah, So what do you say
Russians use him. I'm sure other people do too. Rite
a lot of people do. And again it's they're not
using them to disarm the mind. They're using them to
find minds. And the reason they use dolphins to find
minds is because there are um there's no technology that
we have that comes even close to rivaling a dolphins
(02:34):
ability to find something in very murky water with a
lot of loud acoustic noise and um that that may
be disguised to look like something else. And minds fall
under all three of those categories. Yeah, so what a
dolphin does and we'll get to how they do it,
But they are trained to do this specifically with just
(02:56):
like they would be at uh at stinky old Sea
World with like you know, fish is their real board
to do their little tricks. But they learned to search
for these mines. Find one and like you said, they
could be like fifty ft away. It's not like they
have to go knock on it or anything like that,
and it probably wouldn't explode anyway. Um. So they go
(03:16):
find one, they swim back to the boat and ring
a bell or you know, some sort of signifier that
they've worked out. They set off a firework, they shoot
a flare at the captain. Uh. And then the human says,
all right, good job. Your work is not quite done though,
because all you're doing is saying there's something down there.
Now here is a uh, an acoustic transponder, and uh,
(03:41):
you go take this. He puts it in his little fist,
and then the dolphins swims back to the mine and
now they have you know, it's like it's a transponder,
so they actually know where it is now, right, And
then they come back and they get the fish, which
is really what they're they're kind of after. If you
remember our Star Dogs episode, it's it's kind the thing
like they're after a fish. They know if they go
(04:02):
do this, they'll get a fish. And people think dolphins
are smart. They don't. They're dumb because they don't realize
there's fish everywhere in that ocean. So, chuck, how how
would a dolphin do this kind of thing? Why is
a dolphins so much so, so vastly superior to anything
that humans can come up with technology wise? Well, humans
are pretty good at coming up with technology. Frankly, that
(04:25):
is correct. But um, we use sonar, and they use sonar.
But they've been using sonar a lot longer than we've
been using sonar. That's the point of this article. That
really is sort of it. Like they mean, dolphins have
been around way longer than we've been using sonar, and
that's there their chief I mean, I guess it's sort
(04:46):
of a communication device. Oh yeah, definitely is. They communicate,
But it's also the way that they see I guess
it's the best way you could put it. They see
what they're there, well, they don't have ears. They see
with we normally, what might think of these things that
we might hear? Yeah, and that's why it's so tough
to kind of wrap your head around what they're doing.
(05:07):
But if you think about it, if if our vision
is nothing but a bunch of electrical impulses stimulated by
light that forms like a mental conception of an object
in our brain, that's exactly what dolphins are doing. But
they're doing it with sound. They're shooting out like a
kind of thing, and when it comes back, it tells
them about that object and it forms an impression in
(05:30):
their brain just like we do. Visually. They do orally,
but not through the mouth, I mean orally a a
really well put uh yeah, and supposedly they are so
good at this kind of echolocation that they can tell
the difference from fifty feet away between a BB gun
pellet being dropped in the water and a kernel of
(05:51):
corn being dropped in the water. Yeah, which is again,
now we're starting to reach the point where it's like, Okay,
now I see why they're so much better than than
our technology. Like, I can see that. I could if
you put a baby in a corner of a kernel
of corn next to each other fifty ft away, I
can do that. I can see that. But if the
visibility underwater, sure could, all right, if the visibility underwater
(06:12):
is like two ft in front of your face, you
couldn't do that. A dolphin could, which is why they
come in handy, right. And so we talked about echo
location with bats before. Uh, and I feel like with
something else, but definitely with bats. That was one of
our great long form episodes, probably whales Whales episode, Yeah,
probably so. But dolphins used the same process. Um, they
(06:36):
use their nasal passages and they make that little clicking
sound that you did so well. Uh, they send it
to the forehead and that focuses the sound into like
a beam that shoots out into the water. Let's step one. Yeah,
and then what happens after that, well after that because
it's echo location, you know, it works just like with
the bats. Things bounce off and come back to them. Uh.
(06:59):
In case of bats, it's you know, mosquitoes and things
like that, or or stupid humans with tennis rackets. Um,
it bounces back to the dolphin as that echo and
then they absorb that into their jaw like a tennis racket,
like it's oh no, poor dolphin, poor dolphin. Uh. And
this part is kind of gross sounding, but there is
(07:20):
a um what Jane McGrath referred to as a passage
of fat in the jaw, and that's just really just
a conductor that conducts the sound to the inner ear
of the dolphin, which and then all the nerve impulses
get going and then the brain starts firing. And like
you said, just like we see something, they can say, wow,
that thing is around like a bb or it's shaped
(07:44):
kernel shaped like a corn kernel, or where they go, hey,
it's a c mine that things are gonna blow. I better,
or that's a fish. I don't even need to go
back to the boat, right, I can eat so chuck, Um,
let's take an ad break and then we will come
back and we'll talk about how not everybody's super hip
with the idea of using dolphins in war. Okay, we're back,
(08:30):
and like I said, not everybody is really happy that
the U. S. Navy is using dolphins. And actually, I
should say, real quick, Chuck, I want to fit this in. Um. Oh,
I shouldn't have even said I wanted to fit it in.
That's using up valuable time. So I the Navy started
using dolphins quite by accident. I guess in nineteen sixty
there was a study where they started paying attention to dolphins.
(08:54):
They started to study them, like I just said, and um,
they were trying to figure out if they could learn
anything from offense to make torpedoes more I guess aqua
dynamic so that they could move through the water horse
you look to a dolphin, right, And they didn't learn
anything for torpedoes, but they were like, wait, these things
are super smart and they have amazing echo location. Maybe
(09:15):
we should figure out something else for him. And they
put them into use. Um pretty shortly after that they
started training them. They said, they're pretty smart. But here's
the hitch. They don't realize they're surrounded by fish in
the ocean, right, They think they can only get them
from this stupid bucket on the boat. It's also possibly
just really lazy. Maybe maybe like if I had, like
I can go to a grocery store, but if I
(09:36):
had if I was laying on the couch and someone
dropped by and dropped food in my mouth, right exactly
all over it. Yeah, that's a really good analogy. I
get it now. So um, alright, First of all, we
we already said that they don't disarm them, and they
don't even get that close. So you might think that
even animal rights activists would be like, hey, this is fine.
(09:56):
They're not getting close even if they did. Like I
said before, they're not going to explode, because they're meant
to explode when a ship hits it, not you know,
any octopus kind of floating by, because that would defeat
the purpose of putting a mine in the ocean. Right. Uh.
So you would think like, all right, what's the harm then,
But it turns out there actually is quite a bit
of harm that could that could come about. Yeah, because
(10:17):
if you have a trained team of dolphins that you
know you're using in one place, say the Atlantic, and
you suddenly need them over in the Pacific. You gotta
get them from point A to point B and there's
there's Dolphins may not be acclimated to the Pacific, especially
if it's like the Northern Pacific and it's super cold
and they're used to the Middle Atlantic where it's relatively warm. Right,
(10:41):
That's one thing. Another thing is transporting them there alone
is an ordeal for the dolphins. Yeah. I mean, anyone
who's ever seen a whale or a dolphin or a
big shark like wrapped up in that that sling being
like lifted out of the ocean into a plane or
something to a tank. It's just like it looks awful.
(11:03):
Nothing about that makes it look like that any of
those animals are psyched that that's happening. Right. Air travel
is designed for humans, and it's a nightmare for humans, right,
Imagine what it's like for a dolphin. Yea, at some
points a lot of stress on their body and there
you know, it might sound hippie dippie, but on their
emotional well being, you know, on their earth spirit and
(11:27):
well we've talked about zukos. This it's a real thing.
Oh yeah, for sure, for sure, And I would imagine
that if you want to drive a dolphin insane, there
are worse ways to do that than putting it on
an airplane taking it for a ride about. And there
were um, there was actually uh, they were going to
use some dolphins as part of a dolphin sea lion team.
(11:49):
Sea lion or seal. One of the two. Think we'll
sea lions do this as well. Then it was a
dolphins sea lion team. They actually have can There are
naval teams made up of sea lions and dolphins work
together that not only discover minds, they're also trained to
discover like underwater saboteurs, divers swimmers who aren't supposed to
be there that want to like blow up a military station.
(12:11):
And the dolphin will go find the guy, go tell
the sea lion. The sea lion goes and puts an
ankle cuff on the swimmers shut up, I'm not kidding,
and they're tethered to a boat now like so the
sea lion goes and arrests the guy and then they
both go tell the navy that you got you got
someone on the line. So the dolphins doing like some
(12:31):
trick in front of the guy and he's like, wow,
I mean, I know I'm supposed to plant this bomb,
but that's pretty neat looking. And then he looks down
and he's like, oh again dolphins and then the sea
lion and the dolphin high five. Yeah, but that's so.
They were going to set up a patrol in the
in Puget Sound in Washington State. There's an army port there,
(12:53):
and uh, they were going to set up patrols, and
the I think some animal rights group said nope, not
on our watch, and to raise public awareness, they started
knitting sweaters for the dolphins. We're going to be transported
to the to the cold water. And it worked for
a little while. I think that that they have those
things now, yeah, I'm sure there's a work around. So
(13:14):
that's that is dolphins disarming minds, which they don't actually do.
Correct the dolphins find the minds and h and many
many people are still not too supportive of that, right, yeah,
because I mean they're innocence and they have no idea
what the wars, what's going on with the war. You know,
they don't know what they're being used for. It's just
it's a moral quandary for sure. Yeah. The one thing
(13:36):
I couldn't find really quick before we go is what
minds are disguised as. One thing I saw. The only
thing I saw was that they can be disguised to
appear like ripples in the water. And I'm like, how
would you do that? And then I realized, oh, i'm
sonar it would look like a ripple in the water.
So I think they were talking about disguising them. I'm
(13:58):
sure they do visually as well, but I think mostly
on sonars how they try to disguise on interesting. Yeah,
I would love to meet the person who's like, I
know how to disguise the mind as a ripple in water. Yeah,
that makes more sense. I was thinking like they would
make it look like a big floating kelp mass. Yeah,
so was I at first. And they might, but I
(14:20):
couldn't find anything like that. I was the only thing
for him. Very nice. Uh. Well, if you want to
know more about dolphins disarming sea mines, hang around in
the sea. See what happens. Uh, And in the meantime,
get in touch with us. You can send us an
email to Stuff Podcast at how Stuff works dot com.
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