May 15, 2019 • 13 mins
Honorary degrees are not real degrees. They are marketing opportunities for universities. They make us mad, but we want one. Learn all about them in the next 12-15 minutes.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey there, and welcome to short Stuff. I'm Josh Clark,
and there's Charles Lubach Hook Brian, there's Jerry over there,
and we are right smack dab in the middle of
entering graduation season, and we're three doctors. We are self proclaimed. Really,
we didn't even have three honorary decreem exactly. Ours are
(00:26):
written in crayon in our own handwriting. Yeah, so this,
you know, we talked about this in a recent episode
about honorary degrees, and this ended up being kind of encapsulating.
What's perfect about short stuff is we can explain everything
you need to know about honorary degrees and like twelve minutes,
we can explain it in one second. Marketing. Yeah, that's
(00:48):
kind of that's kind of true, but it is a
little more interesting than that. Uh, let's talk about the history,
because not all universities give honorary degrees um very this
The University of Virginia uv A, m I T, Stanford,
and Cornell do not give honorary degrees um. William uh
(01:10):
Barton Rogers, founder of m I T, said they are
unfriendly to true literary advancement and of spurious merit and
noisy popularity, and William Barton Rogers had graduated u v A,
so that's where he was kind of located with the
idea that you shouldn't have, you shouldn't give away doctorates.
And uv A was founded by Thomas Jefferson, who was
(01:32):
the one who put that ban on him, right, but
he accepted an honorary doctorate from Harvard. It's a bit
of a double standard, probably not the only double standard
Thomas Jefferson's ever ever been involved with. Yeah, but here's
the secret, Well, it's not a secret at all. Here's
the very plain truth that everyone knows about honorary degrees.
(01:54):
Since the beginning of time, they have been used. Two.
They say, a to reward donors who have given money,
sometimes to bring in celebrities for appeal for like media
appeal for graduation ceremonies and such like that. But it's
really just for whatever reason, it's a way to get
some press by acknowledging someone that you think as a
(02:18):
university somewhat aligns with your values as a university. Right. Yeah,
Ultimately that's the goal is to it's not just somebody's
but somebody who is doing something that your university values
or everybody can get behind, right, Yeah. And it started
in Europe, not even here in the US. No, no
um over at Oxford, I believe the first one was
(02:38):
handed out to a guy named lionel Um. That's a
pretty good fifteenth century name. It was given out to him.
He was an influential bishop and he he got his
honorary doctorate unbidden. It was a bit of a surprise.
From what I understand is just kind of showed up
at his house and they say, so congratulations. Also totally unrelated,
(03:03):
we were thinking that you might come be chancellor of
the university. Now since you're a doctor, all al right,
I can do that. I can bring some of my
wealthy connections with me to to UM to Oxford, which
by the way, was about four hundred years old by
this time. In four so they were the first one
to confer an honorary degree. And they kicked off a
(03:24):
grand tradition that is basically just kind of waxed and
waned throughout the years, but mostly waxed in in enthusiasm
and abuse, I guess is the word I'm looking for. Yeah,
King Charles the first speaking of abuse, Uh, he really
got honorary degree. Happy he handed up three hundred and
fifty Oxford doctorates. Uh, two people that of course supported
(03:47):
his court. All within one single year. That's a lot.
That's a lot. Um, it's almost one a day by
my calculation, almost took off Christmas and Thanksgiving? Right, oh
wait Thanksgiving? Uh not then no, maybe all Saints Day.
So um, King Charles the first was the first to
(04:08):
abuse it. He was far from the last. Um. By
the nineteenth century, there were so many degrees being handed
out left and right, honorary degrees, that they actually had
a depressing effect on the importance of actual doctorates that
were being earned, which is a big problem. Right and
um the the president of the Northeastern Dental Association, who's
(04:31):
typically a mouthpiece for um morality and in direction in academia,
um famously warned in that the most dangerous, delusive, debauching
and degrading the four d S thing in American educational
life is the practice of granting unearned degrees. It's pretty harsh.
(04:53):
It was very harsh, but you know, and the guy
was obviously hysterical. But but it does get across, get
across this point that that it was it was getting
a little a little much I guess was the point
by the nineteenth century, and it's calmed down tremendously, especially
here in the States, but it's still going on. It
just seems to be a little a little less problematic
(05:18):
than I think it was before, because at some point
somebody said, okay, all right, let's just let's just yes,
you can keep giving out degrees, but people who are
getting these honorary degrees do not attempt to use them
like they're legitimate. And that seems to change the course
of things. Yeah, alright, so let's take a break. We'll
talk a little bit about how this happens. Who picks
(05:38):
these people and some regrettable choices right after this. All right,
(06:01):
So it is a big deal to do this. UM,
A lot of times it is to get someone like
a Jerry Seinfeld at your graduation ceremony. What these doctorates?
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, everybody. That was pretty good. UM,
I'm trying to sound he sounded like not Jerry Seinfeld,
David Brenner probably okay, sure, why not? Uh? And they
(06:23):
do say, um, honorary degree serve as a way to
inspire the students graduating that day. So that is, um,
that is the reason most people do that, get Conan,
get Jerry Seinfeld in there. Uh, and a lot of
you know, most schools will have a board that decides
this kind of thing, and they need to start well
in advance, so typically you'll start like a year out, um,
(06:45):
just seeing if the person is interested and if their
schedule might ALIGNE. And I don't know if it's um,
it probably works differently at every school. I don't know
if it's in writing as a requirement to come to
graduation or more like and we'd like to give it
to you in person on this date at our football stadium.
They're like, come on, that's kind of the deal. As
(07:05):
you're supposed to show up. And that's really I think,
sort of the unwritten rule. Yeah, because I mean if
you go to a college graduation, that's like, I mean,
that's the show stopper. That's the reason people sit there
is because there's somebody very right. Yeah, it is very
very boring. Um, it's just like can't you just like
email this to these people? Um? There there there should
(07:27):
be a very um, recognizable and or inspirational and or
funny person speaking at a decent graduation ceremony. And it
doesn't necessarily have to be a celebrity. UM. They do
still give these two like big donors. But I think
that that means that you have more of a mountain
to climb to impress people because you're still expected to
(07:50):
give like amazing caliber remarks at the commencement exercises. Yeah,
and when you teased before the break about hey, everyone
like you understand that you're not a real PhD or
god forbid, a medical doctor. Um. That's the thing is
like they know they're not. But there have been some
(08:11):
notable people that have called themselves doctor of whatever after
they got this. UM. Florida Atlantic University takes it very seriously.
In their rules. They say, in no instance will the
recipient of an honorary doctorate from f A you represent
the award as being an earned doctorate or have earned
academic credential of any kind. This award does not entitle
(08:35):
the recipient to use the title of doctor or a
pen PhD or any other earned degree designation after his
or her name. And UM. Basically they say at the end,
like if we get you doing this too, we could
take it away. We're gonna take it away. We're gonna
take this meaningless of paper right away from you. Don't
even register at your hotel under doctor Bryant, which I
(08:56):
haven't been known to do. Don't even don't even have
your wife call you doctor, because we'll find out. Yeah,
because we're listening. So um, it's not just Florida Atlantic
University takes it seriously. There is a Grove City College
professor UM psychology professor Warren Throckmorton, who apparently one day
realized that some general funding was about to run out,
(09:17):
and he did a survey of university policy statements about
the use of UM doctorates, of of of honorary doctorates,
and basically to a to a university, it's like, let's
just be clear here, this actually doesn't mean that you
are a doctor of anything or that you have a PhD.
Do not let us catch you using this. This is
(09:38):
a this is a big deal because again, back in
the nineteenth century, they were handing out UM m D
s uh basically everything, and people were like, yeah, call me,
call me Dr Dangerfield, you know, um, and it was
it was a big problem. So now they seem to
have it under under control, although there have been some
people in recent years that still said, now whenever you
(10:00):
gave me a doctorate. I'm gonna use doctor. I don't
care what you think of me, because I'm my Angelou. Yeah,
I'm a gift to the world. Ben Franklin did that
after getting degrees from Oxford and University of St. Andrews.
And like you said, with My Angelou, it's like one
of those things where you know, it's not super cool,
but who's gonna go tell my Angelou what to do? Nobody? Nobody.
(10:21):
They'll get a palm in their face. Yeah. I mean
I can imagine her speaking in that great voice of hers,
and like I would just shrink, right, you know, I
was about to dry do with my angel but there's
no way you would not rise. You would shrink. Look
at the shrink. Uh. And then there have been some
very regrettable and rescinded PhD s honorary PhDs over the year. Um.
(10:47):
Of course, Bill Cosby has many, many of these, and
they were I think probably all taken away, yeah, I believe,
including from his alma mater temple. But the first one
was Yale. With with Yale, he became the first in
three hundred years to have their his honorary degree taken
away at least by Yale University. But yeah, everybody started
(11:10):
following suit after that. Yeah, there's a few more uh
legendary uh late DJ from England, Jimmy Seville. Oh, he's
a terrible he was terrible human because it was exposed
later in his life that he was one of the
most prolific pedophiles in the history of Britain. They took
away his honorary degree. Um Oscar Pistorius away? Um who
(11:36):
else Donald Trump had one rescinded from whom university? You
say that as if it's a real thing. Um. I
had it written down, but I can't find it now.
But he got an honorary degree that was taken away
while he was running for president because of anti Muslim remarks.
And they were like, no, we're taking that back. It's cool. Yeah,
(12:00):
and there's there's more and more. I don't Oh, I
could listen to these all day. Well, I think we
should campaign to get them from our own alma mater. Well,
you know, a m somebody wrote in from an unnamed
they not by us, but they wouldn't name what college
they work at, but it's in Canada, and they said
they do honorary degrees up there too. And I believe
(12:21):
it was that she said that she was working to
get us honorary degrees. So fingers crossed, yes, Um, I
will make fun of these up until and including when
I have one. Okay, that's a deal. I'm going to
hold you to that. Well, I guess that's it for
honorary degrees. We got this article from how Stuff Works,
so you can go check it out if you like,
(12:42):
and in the meantime, short stuff out. Stuff you Should
Know is a production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.
For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows
Hey there, and welcome to short Stuff. I'm Josh Clark,
and there's Charles Lubach Hook Brian, there's Jerry over there,
and we are right smack dab in the middle of
entering graduation season, and we're three doctors. We are self proclaimed. Really,
we didn't even have three honorary decreem exactly. Ours are
(00:26):
written in crayon in our own handwriting. Yeah, so this,
you know, we talked about this in a recent episode
about honorary degrees, and this ended up being kind of encapsulating.
What's perfect about short stuff is we can explain everything
you need to know about honorary degrees and like twelve minutes,
we can explain it in one second. Marketing. Yeah, that's
(00:48):
kind of that's kind of true, but it is a
little more interesting than that. Uh, let's talk about the history,
because not all universities give honorary degrees um very this
The University of Virginia uv A, m I T, Stanford,
and Cornell do not give honorary degrees um. William uh
(01:10):
Barton Rogers, founder of m I T, said they are
unfriendly to true literary advancement and of spurious merit and
noisy popularity, and William Barton Rogers had graduated u v A,
so that's where he was kind of located with the
idea that you shouldn't have, you shouldn't give away doctorates.
And uv A was founded by Thomas Jefferson, who was
(01:32):
the one who put that ban on him, right, but
he accepted an honorary doctorate from Harvard. It's a bit
of a double standard, probably not the only double standard
Thomas Jefferson's ever ever been involved with. Yeah, but here's
the secret, Well, it's not a secret at all. Here's
the very plain truth that everyone knows about honorary degrees.
(01:54):
Since the beginning of time, they have been used. Two.
They say, a to reward donors who have given money,
sometimes to bring in celebrities for appeal for like media
appeal for graduation ceremonies and such like that. But it's
really just for whatever reason, it's a way to get
some press by acknowledging someone that you think as a
(02:18):
university somewhat aligns with your values as a university. Right. Yeah,
Ultimately that's the goal is to it's not just somebody's
but somebody who is doing something that your university values
or everybody can get behind, right, Yeah. And it started
in Europe, not even here in the US. No, no
um over at Oxford, I believe the first one was
(02:38):
handed out to a guy named lionel Um. That's a
pretty good fifteenth century name. It was given out to him.
He was an influential bishop and he he got his
honorary doctorate unbidden. It was a bit of a surprise.
From what I understand is just kind of showed up
at his house and they say, so congratulations. Also totally unrelated,
(03:03):
we were thinking that you might come be chancellor of
the university. Now since you're a doctor, all al right,
I can do that. I can bring some of my
wealthy connections with me to to UM to Oxford, which
by the way, was about four hundred years old by
this time. In four so they were the first one
to confer an honorary degree. And they kicked off a
(03:24):
grand tradition that is basically just kind of waxed and
waned throughout the years, but mostly waxed in in enthusiasm
and abuse, I guess is the word I'm looking for. Yeah,
King Charles the first speaking of abuse, Uh, he really
got honorary degree. Happy he handed up three hundred and
fifty Oxford doctorates. Uh, two people that of course supported
(03:47):
his court. All within one single year. That's a lot.
That's a lot. Um, it's almost one a day by
my calculation, almost took off Christmas and Thanksgiving? Right, oh
wait Thanksgiving? Uh not then no, maybe all Saints Day.
So um, King Charles the first was the first to
(04:08):
abuse it. He was far from the last. Um. By
the nineteenth century, there were so many degrees being handed
out left and right, honorary degrees, that they actually had
a depressing effect on the importance of actual doctorates that
were being earned, which is a big problem. Right and
um the the president of the Northeastern Dental Association, who's
(04:31):
typically a mouthpiece for um morality and in direction in academia,
um famously warned in that the most dangerous, delusive, debauching
and degrading the four d S thing in American educational
life is the practice of granting unearned degrees. It's pretty harsh.
(04:53):
It was very harsh, but you know, and the guy
was obviously hysterical. But but it does get across, get
across this point that that it was it was getting
a little a little much I guess was the point
by the nineteenth century, and it's calmed down tremendously, especially
here in the States, but it's still going on. It
just seems to be a little a little less problematic
(05:18):
than I think it was before, because at some point
somebody said, okay, all right, let's just let's just yes,
you can keep giving out degrees, but people who are
getting these honorary degrees do not attempt to use them
like they're legitimate. And that seems to change the course
of things. Yeah, alright, so let's take a break. We'll
talk a little bit about how this happens. Who picks
(05:38):
these people and some regrettable choices right after this. All right,
(06:01):
So it is a big deal to do this. UM,
A lot of times it is to get someone like
a Jerry Seinfeld at your graduation ceremony. What these doctorates?
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, everybody. That was pretty good. UM,
I'm trying to sound he sounded like not Jerry Seinfeld,
David Brenner probably okay, sure, why not? Uh? And they
(06:23):
do say, um, honorary degree serve as a way to
inspire the students graduating that day. So that is, um,
that is the reason most people do that, get Conan,
get Jerry Seinfeld in there. Uh, and a lot of
you know, most schools will have a board that decides
this kind of thing, and they need to start well
in advance, so typically you'll start like a year out, um,
(06:45):
just seeing if the person is interested and if their
schedule might ALIGNE. And I don't know if it's um,
it probably works differently at every school. I don't know
if it's in writing as a requirement to come to
graduation or more like and we'd like to give it
to you in person on this date at our football stadium.
They're like, come on, that's kind of the deal. As
(07:05):
you're supposed to show up. And that's really I think,
sort of the unwritten rule. Yeah, because I mean if
you go to a college graduation, that's like, I mean,
that's the show stopper. That's the reason people sit there
is because there's somebody very right. Yeah, it is very
very boring. Um, it's just like can't you just like
email this to these people? Um? There there there should
(07:27):
be a very um, recognizable and or inspirational and or
funny person speaking at a decent graduation ceremony. And it
doesn't necessarily have to be a celebrity. UM. They do
still give these two like big donors. But I think
that that means that you have more of a mountain
to climb to impress people because you're still expected to
(07:50):
give like amazing caliber remarks at the commencement exercises. Yeah,
and when you teased before the break about hey, everyone
like you understand that you're not a real PhD or
god forbid, a medical doctor. Um. That's the thing is
like they know they're not. But there have been some
(08:11):
notable people that have called themselves doctor of whatever after
they got this. UM. Florida Atlantic University takes it very seriously.
In their rules. They say, in no instance will the
recipient of an honorary doctorate from f A you represent
the award as being an earned doctorate or have earned
academic credential of any kind. This award does not entitle
(08:35):
the recipient to use the title of doctor or a
pen PhD or any other earned degree designation after his
or her name. And UM. Basically they say at the end,
like if we get you doing this too, we could
take it away. We're gonna take it away. We're gonna
take this meaningless of paper right away from you. Don't
even register at your hotel under doctor Bryant, which I
(08:56):
haven't been known to do. Don't even don't even have
your wife call you doctor, because we'll find out. Yeah,
because we're listening. So um, it's not just Florida Atlantic
University takes it seriously. There is a Grove City College
professor UM psychology professor Warren Throckmorton, who apparently one day
realized that some general funding was about to run out,
(09:17):
and he did a survey of university policy statements about
the use of UM doctorates, of of of honorary doctorates,
and basically to a to a university, it's like, let's
just be clear here, this actually doesn't mean that you
are a doctor of anything or that you have a PhD.
Do not let us catch you using this. This is
(09:38):
a this is a big deal because again, back in
the nineteenth century, they were handing out UM m D
s uh basically everything, and people were like, yeah, call me,
call me Dr Dangerfield, you know, um, and it was
it was a big problem. So now they seem to
have it under under control, although there have been some
people in recent years that still said, now whenever you
(10:00):
gave me a doctorate. I'm gonna use doctor. I don't
care what you think of me, because I'm my Angelou. Yeah,
I'm a gift to the world. Ben Franklin did that
after getting degrees from Oxford and University of St. Andrews.
And like you said, with My Angelou, it's like one
of those things where you know, it's not super cool,
but who's gonna go tell my Angelou what to do? Nobody? Nobody.
(10:21):
They'll get a palm in their face. Yeah. I mean
I can imagine her speaking in that great voice of hers,
and like I would just shrink, right, you know, I
was about to dry do with my angel but there's
no way you would not rise. You would shrink. Look
at the shrink. Uh. And then there have been some
very regrettable and rescinded PhD s honorary PhDs over the year. Um.
(10:47):
Of course, Bill Cosby has many, many of these, and
they were I think probably all taken away, yeah, I believe,
including from his alma mater temple. But the first one
was Yale. With with Yale, he became the first in
three hundred years to have their his honorary degree taken
away at least by Yale University. But yeah, everybody started
(11:10):
following suit after that. Yeah, there's a few more uh
legendary uh late DJ from England, Jimmy Seville. Oh, he's
a terrible he was terrible human because it was exposed
later in his life that he was one of the
most prolific pedophiles in the history of Britain. They took
away his honorary degree. Um Oscar Pistorius away? Um who
(11:36):
else Donald Trump had one rescinded from whom university? You
say that as if it's a real thing. Um. I
had it written down, but I can't find it now.
But he got an honorary degree that was taken away
while he was running for president because of anti Muslim remarks.
And they were like, no, we're taking that back. It's cool. Yeah,
(12:00):
and there's there's more and more. I don't Oh, I
could listen to these all day. Well, I think we
should campaign to get them from our own alma mater. Well,
you know, a m somebody wrote in from an unnamed
they not by us, but they wouldn't name what college
they work at, but it's in Canada, and they said
they do honorary degrees up there too. And I believe
(12:21):
it was that she said that she was working to
get us honorary degrees. So fingers crossed, yes, Um, I
will make fun of these up until and including when
I have one. Okay, that's a deal. I'm going to
hold you to that. Well, I guess that's it for
honorary degrees. We got this article from how Stuff Works,
so you can go check it out if you like,
(12:42):
and in the meantime, short stuff out. Stuff you Should
Know is a production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.
For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows
Stuff You Should Know News
Hosts And Creators
Chuck Bryant
Josh Clark
Show Links
AboutOrder Our BookStoreSYSK ArmyRSSPopular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.