January 4, 2011 • 29 mins
Since gluten is found in rye, wheat and barley grains, it's a near-ubiquitous part of many diets. So why do some people avoid this common protein? Tune in as Josh and Chuck break down the concerns surrounding gluten.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know
from house Stuff Works dot com? Hey, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me as always is
(00:20):
Charles W. Chuck Bryant with this freakishly big fingertips that
I just noticed. I don't know what you're talking about.
I'm looking at it now and it doesn't look any
different than any other fingertip I've ever seen. Hold your
hand up. That is big. This is on the middle finger.
It gives me an advantage of traffic. Yeah. I met
(00:40):
a girl once, um who actually had she I can't remember.
I think she'd like worn out, like her fingers from typing,
or she broke it or she did something, and she
actually had that splint like this, like her middle finger
sticking up. I was like, I envy you, right, you
know you can get a splint and do that and
just tell people I could. I'm very lazy though, Sure so, Chuck,
(01:02):
how you doing great? God a, you're getting ready for Christmas? Yeah,
this is our last couple of shows here before we break,
and actually this will come out in two thousand eleven. Yeah,
mind meld. But this is this is what's really going
on in our world right now, Chuck. You remember Norman Borlog,
(01:23):
I know this is this is unique Nobel Prize winning
I guess agriculturist, botanist. He is. He was responsible for
the green revolution, which, ironically, the people of the green
environmental revolution like to point out, is like the scourge
(01:43):
of the environment because basically what Borlog did in the forties,
I think the fifties and sixties, there was a lot
of um famines predicted, right, Apparently up to a billion
people were predicted to die because the agriculture head reached
its carrying capacity, which is the number of people that
can support I think, without any help whatsoever, agriculture can
(02:07):
support like um, a couple of billion people something like that, Right,
And we'd reached that point, or we were about to,
and everybody was about to be in big trouble, and
then Borlog steps in just at the nick of time,
goes down to Mexico, basically forces wheat to evolve super
quickly so that you have these high, high yields over
(02:28):
very small areas. More output exactly um, but like se
more output UM and literally saves about a billion lives.
That's what he's credited with. The problem is he's also
credited with creating these really intensive agriculture techniques that pollute
water sheds from you know, intensive fertilizer and pesticides. Um.
(02:50):
These things don't just grow on their own, like. It
requires a lot of intensive farming. Right. I didn't know
if there was a downside to his work. I know,
it's it's kind of weird to think about, but yeah,
he's actually kind of a whipping posts or um for
the the environmental movement. He just passed away this last year, right,
uh yeah, within the last year too. Yeah, I think
he was last year, maybe two thousnine, um. But yeah,
(03:11):
so he's kind of he's been vilified unfairly in my opinion,
for creating a lot of ecological problems. I think when
you say that, you missed that he saved about a
billion lives, you know. Um. But there's also possibly one
other thing that he created inadvertently with his green revolution,
and that is what we call Celiac disease. Interesting, yeah,
(03:33):
because this this will think think about this Celiac disease,
which is an allergy or an autoimmune disorder that results
from an allergy to gluten. But it is an autoimmune
disorder though it's not a food allergy. It's an autoimmune
disorder brought on by a food allergy. Okay um. But
a study I think from two thousand nine found that
(03:55):
it's UH that gluten allergies or seal the act disease
is UM about four point five times more common now
than it was fifty years ago. And a lot of
people suspect that it it's because wheats become such a
staple crop that it's found everywhere, and so since we're
(04:17):
more exposed to it than ever thanks to this green revolution, um,
we have started to develop this disorder because of it now,
so is bore logs uh was his plan or not?
Obviously it wouldn't plan, but was his technique of making
the wheat and more yield high yield? Did that actually
(04:39):
increase the amount of gluten? I would imagine so, because
there's just more weeks. But I think also what's behind
it is wheat is everywhere because in the West there's
so much of it that we just use it for everything.
Because and we'll see in a minute, it shows up
in some pretty random places that wouldn't notice, Yes, that
(05:00):
you wouldn't notice. Well, you could put some wheat and
water and drink it. Well, yeah, wheat water right, also
called beer wheat water. I'm gonna order one of this
next time we're going to a bar. Yeah, can I
have some wheat water kind of wheat water. I'm gonna
order fire water when you order wheatwater. Okay, Well that
would be whiskey or something in firewater liquor whiskey. Yeah, So, Chuck,
(05:22):
let's talk about Celiac disease. Let's talk about gluten. Let's
let's just lay it out on the table and see
what happens. Man. Yeah, because I mean it's all over
the place. Now, it's a big I would say there's
some controversy because a lot of people are jumping on
gluten free diets because, like Gwyneth Paltrow said, she lost
some weight, so people are using it to lose weight,
which weight Like, she's not two dimensional, she's a sheet
(05:46):
of paper. Um. So let's talk about the small intestine.
So if we want to absorb what's going on here
with this podcast. The small intestine is absorbs nutrients. That's
what it does. Thanks to little villian there. If you
have Celiac disease, that means the lining of your intestine
is destroyed to the point where, uh, it's not doing
(06:08):
that job, and the nutrients go straight through to your poop, right,
And that's just pretty much it. Yeah, it's it's just
as straightforward as that. Yeah, that's celia. I mean there's
a lot of twist and turns along the way. Obviously.
Well one of these is not exactly straightforward. One of
the um we we absorb nourishment in the small intestine, right, Yeah.
(06:29):
So one of the side effects of Celiac disease of
an inability to absorb the nutrient gluten um is malnourishment,
which also happens if you've had a significant portion of
your intestines removed. Malnourishment is often a result as well. Yeah,
and that can lead to potentially anemia, osteoporosis, bad things,
(06:50):
very bad things. Mal Nourishment just isn't good period. So
a lot of people think, well, you know, Celiac disease
is an allergy to wheat. It is um. But like you,
like you just pointed out, you can get malnourishment. You
can develop malnourishment from it um. And it is also
an autoimmune disorder where the body is warding off something unnecessarily, right,
(07:14):
like your immune system is not functioning correctly. Yeah, what
is this? They said that of sufferers have one of
two histo compatibility leucocyte antigens. Right, So what I take
from it is that's what they search for when they
do a blood test disease, right, So I think what
happens is it's we're exposed to wheat, right, Uh, our
(07:38):
body mistakes the gluten. Actually, in this case, in Celiac disease,
our body mistakes the protein we make ourselves for the
enzyme we make ourselves that breaks down gluten as a
foreign invader. Gluten is a protein, and we even said
that I don't know gluten is a protein. Yes, it's
a protein, we should say, yeah, found specifically in wheat
(07:59):
bar early and rye. Yeah right, okay, yeah, okay. But
the weird thing about Celiac disease is our body is
not even warding off the gluten. It's warding off the
enzyme our body makes to break down the gluten. So
it's all kinds of confused, right, So we're introduced to
we here's some gluten our body produces and time to
go break it down. Some of our immune system goes, whoa, wha,
(08:22):
what's going on? Forms antibodies that are that are um
developed just to destroy these enzymes that break down gluten.
So then anytime we're exposed to gluten again these enzymes
are produced, our immune system mounts a defense unnecessarily and
therefore we we this As a result, the gluten is
not broken down. It passes through the stool or the poop,
(08:44):
as you said, And um, we're malnourished because the villa
just basically lies down on the job or is destroyed
all together. And about one and one hundred and thirty
three people suffer from it. But it is under diagnosed
because it can mistake You can mistake it for irritable
irritable bowel syndrome. Yeah. Well, let's talk about the bowel symptoms. Right.
(09:08):
There's um, you can have an upset tummy, irritable bowel syndrome. Um.
You can also have chronic diarrhea, which is one of
the worst kinds of diarrhea. Yeah, I would say the worst.
You can lose weight even though you're eating just a
normal diet. Right, Um, foul smelling bowel movements. Yeah, what
what is that all about? It means your poop stinks bad? Yeah,
(09:29):
but I mean does not always. I think that this
is like even in the notice, in the realm of poop.
This is bad like dad poop, except without the tang
of shaving cream also mixed in with it. Right, it's funny.
There's a break like when you're a little baby. It's
like the worst thing on earth. And then I remember
being a kid specifically and might go and ask my
(09:52):
dad a question. Then he would just open the door
and I would be like, oh my lord, what is
happening in there? I wonder what it is? So I
would say, then your poop smells best between the ages
of like two, and so if you're ever gonna have
to smell poop, do it during those ages. Right, this
is going downhill fast. There's also some non bowel related symptoms. Well,
(10:17):
excessive gas. We didn't say that. Oh yeah, that's a
big one, toot um. The non bowel related symptoms are
like muscle cramps, joint pain, uh, irritability, and depression, which
I think actually are probably comorbid with smelly poop. Fue. Yeah, yeah,
you're just like, oh God, I can't take this more.
(10:38):
A A one unmistakable sign is a well, not unmistakable
because it could be other things, but a skin rash
known as dermatitis herpetiformists and that's like blistering and itching
on the elbows and knees and your but yeah, so
if you've got that going on, you may want to
get that looked into. And then part of the big
problem with Celiac disease um like if you go to
(11:00):
a doctor and say, my poop smells really bad. I
often have chronic diarrhea, I'm irritable, gassy, and I have
joint pain, and I have this rash. The doctors can
be like, you have Celiac disease. You may also be asymptomatic.
And this is where it's it's a problem because if
the symptoms are UM, you know, not too terrible, like
(11:20):
you can deal with it and you don't even really
think about it. Or if you're asymptomatic, entirely your your
small intestine is still being ravaged by UM, this autoimmune
disorder that you have. Yes, you may not feel terrible,
but it's it's wrecking you. Yeah, you're gonna become malnoursed
you're at risk for in India and osteoporocess and all
this other stuff as well. Well. One stat that's in
(11:41):
this article. Um I think Molly Edmonds wrote this, right,
she did, of stuff Mom never told you, and our
our chief medical correspondent. Uh. For every person that is diagnosed,
about thirty people habit and are undiagnosed. Yeah, that's that's huge.
That's huge underdiagnosis. So they think you're just gassy and
fatigued and irritable. Right. And one of the problems why
(12:03):
or one of the reasons why it's so underdiagnosed, as
a lot of these symptoms mimic other um more or
other better understood disease like cystic fibrosis. Yeah, we mentioned
IBS and Cron's disease, which I thought was interesting, which
I think is related somehow, is it? Though? They usually
have to take out part of your intestine for chron disease. Uh.
(12:26):
So Molly suggests, you know, to be your own advocate,
which is always a good idea and because a lot
of doctors will bypass that. But I bet these days
doctors are hearing more and more from people saying I
think I might have Celiac disease, right, and also a
lot of people as Celiac disease and the idea of
gluten and eating a gluten free diet, which as it
stands right now is the only treatment for Celiac disease.
(12:49):
Is eating a gluten free diet. Um is more and
more people are become aware of it. I think a
lot of a lot of people are starting to adopt
that um not only because of celia disease, a lot
of people consider it to be healthier. Yeah, that possibly
gluten is responsible for the widespread depression, murder rates, like
(13:10):
everything that's wrong with the world, it can be traced
to gluten or case in, which is I think, what
the what is the responsible party for lactose intolerance? Right,
It's a lot of people are eating what's called gluten
free casein free diets, right, Well, gluten, you can have
a gluten sensitivity without having Celiac disease, So that's important
to point out. Without having full blown Celiac disease, you
(13:33):
can't have a sensitivity to it. But the things that
I've read say that if you don't have a sensitivity
to it and you're not celiac, you're not Celiac disease,
then there's really no reason to avoid it, and a
lot of it is. It's sort of the fad now, yeah,
it is, but it makes you wonder. Sometimes the mob
mentality is correct. You know. Um, if you do think
(13:56):
you have Celiac disease though, and you're considering adopting a
glute and free diet, hold off and actually go to
the doctor first, that you want to be properly diagnosed. Um,
because once you start, once you adopt the gluten free diet,
it's going to mess with the results of the blood test. Yeah,
you can actually show a false positive for celiac because
you're avoiding gluten in the blood. Or no, it won't
(14:19):
show up. Oh no, I thought it said you can
appear to have Celiac disease. Oh see what I took
from it is that you it won't show up because
your body is not producing the antibodies that they look
for in the blood test. Because adopting a gluten free
diet is so um effective that your body starts healing
(14:40):
itself pretty quickly. Am I wrong? I don't know. You know,
it just says it can distort the blood test, So
it just messes. It just messes with it one way
or the other. Right, So, if you want to be
diagnosed with celiac disease, I think you have it. Go
get diagnosed, and then adopt the gluten free lifestyle. And
that is the good news that, um, you're gonna stop
experiencing symptoms in the first within a couple of days,
(15:00):
possibly a week or so, and then your small intestine
will begin to repair itself and function correctly. Yeah, because
it's really it's just the gluten that your body's reacting to.
And if there's no gluten, hey, yeah, they call it disease.
I guess it qualifies, but it's to me it's more
of a condition. If you can just quit eating gluten,
it will repair itself, although it's uncurable, so I guess
(15:22):
it is technically disease. And we talked about UM diets, right,
the gluten free case and free diet is actually UM
A lot of parents of autistic kids, which, by the way,
I checked with the guy who has an autistic kid,
and he said it's cool to call him autistics yet
autistics rather than people with autism or both. He said
he thought it was he'd been doing it for the
(15:43):
last twenty years, So that's just his opinion, right, but
at the very least he won't be offended. But there's
a certain amount of logic to UM feeding kids with
autism a gluten free case and free diet, And basically
the logic behind in it is that kids with autism
overproduced certain peptides that break down these things, and for
(16:06):
some reason, this process in the brain treats these the
compounds when they're broken down as opiates and cause kids
to behave differently from other kids, which apparently explains autism.
And it's it's not vetted enough. There haven't been enough
studies apparently to prove or disprove it, but that there's
(16:27):
a lot of parents of autistic kids who are not
feeding them gluten or case and well, we're just learning
so much about autism now we need to do that
as a podcast at some point. Oh, definitely, because all
the controversy around the UH shots that kids get causing
autism and stuff like that. Yeah, there's and it still
remains even after that one doctor who basically started that
(16:49):
whole thing was completely discredited. Yeah, well, there's just so
much cynicism and UM suspicion towards you know, the establishment.
So we'll we'll do autism. We're promising that. Uh. So
we were talking about the fact that gluten products are
lousy with this stuff these days. It's obviously if it's
in wheat, barley and rye, it's gonna be in any
(17:11):
kind of baked good with this stuff, crackers, pasta, cereal bread. Um.
But it's also and some weird things, not weird things,
but it's weird that it's in these things, like salad
dressing is so weird, Uh, salad dressing, soy sauce, peanut butter,
ice cream, pudding, lipstick and toothpaste, beer, obviously, vitamins, an
(17:34):
envelope adhesive. Yeah, which makes me wonder is that when
she has like a really heightened uh gluten allergy perhaps So, Yeah,
it's in all those things. Obviously any kind of anything
made with flour, so you don't might not think about
soup like a chowder or a gravy that's sticking with flower.
I wouldn't want to live if I couldn't eat gravy. Yeah,
(17:59):
you can want to live a vy free life. Either
that or my my bowel movements would stink because I
would not stop eating gravy. What's the point If you
can't eat gravy, what's the point of eating anything. I'm
with you, either you do the dark brown gravy or
like the light brown, pretty anything. I prefer brown gravy,
like dark brown like KFC. Yes, but I will eat
(18:19):
any gravy really, alright. Uh. The other good thing about
the fact that gluten is all over everyone's radar now,
UM is that if you do want to live a
gluten free life, it's a lot easier now too, because
there's tons of products now that are touting being gluten
gluten free, including gluten free beer. Yeah. What do you
know the brands? It was curious about that. No, but
(18:43):
there's there's there's several out there. I think Terrapin, one
of our breweries from beloved Athens, Georgia, has a gluten
free beer. I think, yeah, I think there's that. Several
brands have started to UM carry to produce gluten free beer.
Because really all you need is is some sort of
starch to get things going. It doesn't have to be wet.
(19:04):
You should consumably use rice. There's also a soy vodka
that's awful, but it's out there. UM because think about it,
gluten vodka is often made from grain, and you're in
big trouble with with whiskey vodka. They I have had it.
It was one of the few shots free shots I've
ever given back in my life. It was now when
(19:24):
you mean give it back, you spit it back at
the bar to no. Um. I grabbed two and I
did one and actually caught the the girl who was
handing him out attention and put it back on the tray.
Put the little test tuo back in the thing. Bad. Uh.
What was I gonna say, Josh, oh, if you're eating out,
you're gonna want to talk to your waiter or chef.
(19:45):
And a lot of you know, trendy restaurants these days
have a little gluten free sections too, because everyone thinks
that they're they have celia because he's now well right well.
And not only that, there's a lot of people out
there who, like you said, think it's healthy. It's it's
kind of the fad. So there's strengthen numbers as far
as consumer ship goes UM And apparently between two thousand
and two, No, two thousand four and two thousand nine,
(20:07):
in five years UM, the amount of gluten free products
on the market increase, according to the neil Thing Company. Well,
and they know what they're talking about. Well, they want
to make a buck. Well it's who the neil Thing company. No,
just people that make the products that you consume. They
want to make a buck. So they know that gluten
free is a big deal, so they slap gluten free
on there and obviously remove the gluten. I'm not saying
(20:29):
they're lying to everyone. You know, Mellow Mushroom has a
gluten free pizza. Of course they do. Uh. Molly points
out that one thing you can do is um instead
of to try and avoid gluten, just look at a
list of safe foods that might be easier, just to
think in the realm of vegetables and fruits, nuts, dry beans,
(20:51):
milk and get clear soup, no gravy, dairy and by
the chuck, I want to correct myself corn rice. So
I re tales sales of gluten free products have increased,
se not the number of products on the market. Okay,
retail sales, but still I think that that's directly proportionate
to the number of products on the market. Also, Josh
(21:12):
Potato and Chema, I like how you say that, How
should I say it? I think that's right, okay, instead
of quinola quella. How I've always said, um, what chuck,
what happens if you are a Catholic? You're in big trouble,
aren't you. Yeah? Like it's it's made with with wheat
and they're not going to bend on that, right, And
that the the the Pope the Catholic churches actually issued
(21:36):
a ruling. Pope, Yeah, oh yeah, you're right. He just
he looks creepy. That's the reason. Okay, I'm glad you
said that. Um. The the Catholic Church issued a ruling
on the presence of gluten in the communion wafers and
said that the true Eucharist bread must be made with wheat. Right.
(22:00):
Apparently there is a young girl whose um communion was
nullified by the Catholic Church because she had been she
had received her first communion as a low gluten wafer,
which the Protestants have come to embrace. So they said
they didn't count. They said she's not a Catholic like
she she didn't. There are several rights to Catholicism. There's baptism,
(22:22):
first communion, first penance, confirmation, marriage, and last rights right
and she can still off right. Um, so one of
her I guess points of Catholicism was literally overturned hers
personally by the Catholic Church because she had received a
low gluten wafer. And they wonder why Catholicism is losing
(22:43):
It's it's a members because they're basically saying to her,
you're we're forcing you to have stinky poop, little girl, girl,
we don't care if you can die from this. Well
it's only one little wafer though. Well the problem also is, um,
the Protestants have embraced low gluten wafer, but low gluten
doesn't mean no gluten, so there's kind of that too.
(23:06):
I mean, people with severe Celiac disease can you know,
still have a pretty bad reaction to a comedian wafer?
And check? This is a big deal. I mean it's
not to you and me, but to you know, devout
cast who have Celiac disease, this is a big deal. Yeah,
it's a very important right for them. And it is
very disappointing that the Church came out and ruled like no, sorry,
(23:29):
it's like roll with the changes a little bit, you know,
which is weird because the Church has been known to
you know, evolve over time, like there used to be
such a thing as purgatory. Not anymore, according to the
Catholic Church. But the Eucharist has to be made with wheat. Interesting,
it is interesting. I think we said the word gluten
enough now to where it sounds funny to me in
(23:50):
my head. Yeah, it sounds very Midwest, northern Midwestern gluten. Yeah,
gluten like sh Morgan's board or something. Do you have
anything else? I got nothing else, So I mean I
could keep talking for a while. No, I just say
if you if you think you have a gluten sensitivity, uh,
you can. You should go see a doctor, get your
blood test. I think after the blood test, I'll even
(24:11):
do a biopsy. If you're small intestin, I guess. And
if you're a heavy smoker and you're not sure if
you have a gluten sensitivity, ask a friend or loved
one who lives with you. They'll tell you, oh, because
you can't smell, got you. And if you want to
learn more about Celiac disease, uh, and whether or not
it's plural, you can type that in C E L
(24:32):
I A C in the handy search bar at how
Stuff Works dot com they'll bring up a very interesting
and concise article by Molly Edmunds who manages to marry
Greek mythology and autoimmune disorders of the intestine pretty definitely
really Yeah in the intro, Yeah, since I said a
handy search bar, that means then it's time for the
(24:52):
listener mail. Yeah, Josh, I'm gonna call this. Uh, a
couple of emails from the same girl. Okay, first kiss stuff,
And then there was an update you'll see what I
mean from Alison. Yes, guys, you asked for a story
about a first kiss. I think I have just the one. Uh.
If you hold on through the cheesy parts, you'll see
(25:14):
how it all comes back to you. Guys. Is this
the girl from who had her first kiss at seven? Uh?
Now I already read that one. Yeah, I thought this
was a follow up. Now this is different girl. When
I was eighteen, she was a late bloomer too, because
she was eighteen to late bloomers. I interned for a
summer in Paris, staying at an international house students in
(25:35):
turns like she she wasn't allowed to leave parents. She said,
I met the most wonderful people there, two English brothers
and an Irishman became my particular friends and we decided
to go on a weekend trip to Venice, and it
turned of fortune. Our last night landed me alone on
a dock in Venice with one of the Brits that
had shyly been flirting with me for months. It may
(25:56):
have been pheromones, It may have been that our teeth
did not smash together here, but my first kiss led
to my first love. Well, we have been together for
two years now, all of it long distance. On a
return vacation to Italy we took last winter, the brit
introduced me to stuff you should know. I've been hooked
ever since, and as sad as it may sound, you
guys helped to stay connected by either sharing of our
(26:17):
headphones l O L ngto your podcast as we traveled,
or listening separately before we go to bed and ocean apart,
only to discuss the newest episode in the morning. Here's
an update. She sent me an update a couple of
weeks later. The brit and I actually broke up for
a few months. Uh with his career about to start
(26:37):
in London and my graduate studies starting next year in
New York, and a few other complications. However, he said
he's made a mistake and he's trying to win me back.
He's even willing to move to New York for me. Sweet.
He's just waiting for me to decide if that's what
I want. And I've been getting me I've been giving
him a hard time as I make up my mind. Uh.
I quote directly when he said, listening to Josh and
(26:59):
Chuck it and I before I go to bed without
you his torture, Well that it's really sweet. This guy's
pretty cool. It read a different way listening to Josh
and Chuck his torture. I told you, Uh, I told
you that you guys play an important partner lives. To
make a long story short, I want to give him
a second chance. He's a love of my life. Would
(27:20):
there be any chance that you could read my email
and perhaps let him know that I am still those Wow?
I just got chills. Chuck so nameless. Brett Alison says
she still loves you. It sounds like you're moving to
New York. But it's like the Big Apples calling your
name my friend. So if you had a secret, I'm sorry,
not so secret. Kiss on a dock in Venice with
(27:42):
the girl named Alison. Then then we're talking to you
because she didn't give a name, so she calls him Britt.
Maybe his name is Britt, maybe Britt from Great Britain.
So that's it. Wow. Wow, And she since bugged me
a couple of times like, are you gonna read it?
It's like, have you not talked to him? Right? Yeah?
Refusing to contact him until it comes out. It's weird.
(28:04):
Well I hope they don't. Actually, I hope he doesn't
move on because he didn't because we didn't publish fast enough. Wow. Wow.
I can't even think of something to call for. That
was really sweet. Um. If you've ever been on a
boat that started sinking, we want to hear about it. Yes,
hopefully the brit will be flying actually to New York
(28:27):
rather than sailing a steamership here. If you've ever been
on a boat that started sinking, Uh, we want to
hear about that story. You should probably just go ahead
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that email to Stuff podcast at how stuff works dot com.
(28:50):
For more on this and thousands of other topics. Is
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(29:10):
are you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know
from house Stuff Works dot com? Hey, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me as always is
(00:20):
Charles W. Chuck Bryant with this freakishly big fingertips that
I just noticed. I don't know what you're talking about.
I'm looking at it now and it doesn't look any
different than any other fingertip I've ever seen. Hold your
hand up. That is big. This is on the middle finger.
It gives me an advantage of traffic. Yeah. I met
(00:40):
a girl once, um who actually had she I can't remember.
I think she'd like worn out, like her fingers from typing,
or she broke it or she did something, and she
actually had that splint like this, like her middle finger
sticking up. I was like, I envy you, right, you
know you can get a splint and do that and
just tell people I could. I'm very lazy though, Sure so, Chuck,
(01:02):
how you doing great? God a, you're getting ready for Christmas? Yeah,
this is our last couple of shows here before we break,
and actually this will come out in two thousand eleven. Yeah,
mind meld. But this is this is what's really going
on in our world right now, Chuck. You remember Norman Borlog,
(01:23):
I know this is this is unique Nobel Prize winning
I guess agriculturist, botanist. He is. He was responsible for
the green revolution, which, ironically, the people of the green
environmental revolution like to point out, is like the scourge
(01:43):
of the environment because basically what Borlog did in the forties,
I think the fifties and sixties, there was a lot
of um famines predicted, right, Apparently up to a billion
people were predicted to die because the agriculture head reached
its carrying capacity, which is the number of people that
can support I think, without any help whatsoever, agriculture can
(02:07):
support like um, a couple of billion people something like that, Right,
And we'd reached that point, or we were about to,
and everybody was about to be in big trouble, and
then Borlog steps in just at the nick of time,
goes down to Mexico, basically forces wheat to evolve super
quickly so that you have these high, high yields over
(02:28):
very small areas. More output exactly um, but like se
more output UM and literally saves about a billion lives.
That's what he's credited with. The problem is he's also
credited with creating these really intensive agriculture techniques that pollute
water sheds from you know, intensive fertilizer and pesticides. Um.
(02:50):
These things don't just grow on their own, like. It
requires a lot of intensive farming. Right. I didn't know
if there was a downside to his work. I know,
it's it's kind of weird to think about, but yeah,
he's actually kind of a whipping posts or um for
the the environmental movement. He just passed away this last year, right,
uh yeah, within the last year too. Yeah, I think
he was last year, maybe two thousnine, um. But yeah,
(03:11):
so he's kind of he's been vilified unfairly in my opinion,
for creating a lot of ecological problems. I think when
you say that, you missed that he saved about a
billion lives, you know. Um. But there's also possibly one
other thing that he created inadvertently with his green revolution,
and that is what we call Celiac disease. Interesting, yeah,
(03:33):
because this this will think think about this Celiac disease,
which is an allergy or an autoimmune disorder that results
from an allergy to gluten. But it is an autoimmune
disorder though it's not a food allergy. It's an autoimmune
disorder brought on by a food allergy. Okay um. But
a study I think from two thousand nine found that
(03:55):
it's UH that gluten allergies or seal the act disease
is UM about four point five times more common now
than it was fifty years ago. And a lot of
people suspect that it it's because wheats become such a
staple crop that it's found everywhere, and so since we're
(04:17):
more exposed to it than ever thanks to this green revolution, um,
we have started to develop this disorder because of it now,
so is bore logs uh was his plan or not?
Obviously it wouldn't plan, but was his technique of making
the wheat and more yield high yield? Did that actually
(04:39):
increase the amount of gluten? I would imagine so, because
there's just more weeks. But I think also what's behind
it is wheat is everywhere because in the West there's
so much of it that we just use it for everything.
Because and we'll see in a minute, it shows up
in some pretty random places that wouldn't notice, Yes, that
(05:00):
you wouldn't notice. Well, you could put some wheat and
water and drink it. Well, yeah, wheat water right, also
called beer wheat water. I'm gonna order one of this
next time we're going to a bar. Yeah, can I
have some wheat water kind of wheat water. I'm gonna
order fire water when you order wheatwater. Okay, Well that
would be whiskey or something in firewater liquor whiskey. Yeah, So, Chuck,
(05:22):
let's talk about Celiac disease. Let's talk about gluten. Let's
let's just lay it out on the table and see
what happens. Man. Yeah, because I mean it's all over
the place. Now, it's a big I would say there's
some controversy because a lot of people are jumping on
gluten free diets because, like Gwyneth Paltrow said, she lost
some weight, so people are using it to lose weight,
which weight Like, she's not two dimensional, she's a sheet
(05:46):
of paper. Um. So let's talk about the small intestine.
So if we want to absorb what's going on here
with this podcast. The small intestine is absorbs nutrients. That's
what it does. Thanks to little villian there. If you
have Celiac disease, that means the lining of your intestine
is destroyed to the point where, uh, it's not doing
(06:08):
that job, and the nutrients go straight through to your poop, right,
And that's just pretty much it. Yeah, it's it's just
as straightforward as that. Yeah, that's celia. I mean there's
a lot of twist and turns along the way. Obviously.
Well one of these is not exactly straightforward. One of
the um we we absorb nourishment in the small intestine, right, Yeah.
(06:29):
So one of the side effects of Celiac disease of
an inability to absorb the nutrient gluten um is malnourishment,
which also happens if you've had a significant portion of
your intestines removed. Malnourishment is often a result as well. Yeah,
and that can lead to potentially anemia, osteoporosis, bad things,
(06:50):
very bad things. Mal Nourishment just isn't good period. So
a lot of people think, well, you know, Celiac disease
is an allergy to wheat. It is um. But like you,
like you just pointed out, you can get malnourishment. You
can develop malnourishment from it um. And it is also
an autoimmune disorder where the body is warding off something unnecessarily, right,
(07:14):
like your immune system is not functioning correctly. Yeah, what
is this? They said that of sufferers have one of
two histo compatibility leucocyte antigens. Right, So what I take
from it is that's what they search for when they
do a blood test disease, right, So I think what
happens is it's we're exposed to wheat, right, Uh, our
(07:38):
body mistakes the gluten. Actually, in this case, in Celiac disease,
our body mistakes the protein we make ourselves for the
enzyme we make ourselves that breaks down gluten as a
foreign invader. Gluten is a protein, and we even said
that I don't know gluten is a protein. Yes, it's
a protein, we should say, yeah, found specifically in wheat
(07:59):
bar early and rye. Yeah right, okay, yeah, okay. But
the weird thing about Celiac disease is our body is
not even warding off the gluten. It's warding off the
enzyme our body makes to break down the gluten. So
it's all kinds of confused, right, So we're introduced to
we here's some gluten our body produces and time to
go break it down. Some of our immune system goes, whoa, wha,
(08:22):
what's going on? Forms antibodies that are that are um
developed just to destroy these enzymes that break down gluten.
So then anytime we're exposed to gluten again these enzymes
are produced, our immune system mounts a defense unnecessarily and
therefore we we this As a result, the gluten is
not broken down. It passes through the stool or the poop,
(08:44):
as you said, And um, we're malnourished because the villa
just basically lies down on the job or is destroyed
all together. And about one and one hundred and thirty
three people suffer from it. But it is under diagnosed
because it can mistake You can mistake it for irritable
irritable bowel syndrome. Yeah. Well, let's talk about the bowel symptoms. Right.
(09:08):
There's um, you can have an upset tummy, irritable bowel syndrome. Um.
You can also have chronic diarrhea, which is one of
the worst kinds of diarrhea. Yeah, I would say the worst.
You can lose weight even though you're eating just a
normal diet. Right, Um, foul smelling bowel movements. Yeah, what
what is that all about? It means your poop stinks bad? Yeah,
(09:29):
but I mean does not always. I think that this
is like even in the notice, in the realm of poop.
This is bad like dad poop, except without the tang
of shaving cream also mixed in with it. Right, it's funny.
There's a break like when you're a little baby. It's
like the worst thing on earth. And then I remember
being a kid specifically and might go and ask my
(09:52):
dad a question. Then he would just open the door
and I would be like, oh my lord, what is
happening in there? I wonder what it is? So I
would say, then your poop smells best between the ages
of like two, and so if you're ever gonna have
to smell poop, do it during those ages. Right, this
is going downhill fast. There's also some non bowel related symptoms. Well,
(10:17):
excessive gas. We didn't say that. Oh yeah, that's a
big one, toot um. The non bowel related symptoms are
like muscle cramps, joint pain, uh, irritability, and depression, which
I think actually are probably comorbid with smelly poop. Fue. Yeah, yeah,
you're just like, oh God, I can't take this more.
(10:38):
A A one unmistakable sign is a well, not unmistakable
because it could be other things, but a skin rash
known as dermatitis herpetiformists and that's like blistering and itching
on the elbows and knees and your but yeah, so
if you've got that going on, you may want to
get that looked into. And then part of the big
problem with Celiac disease um like if you go to
(11:00):
a doctor and say, my poop smells really bad. I
often have chronic diarrhea, I'm irritable, gassy, and I have
joint pain, and I have this rash. The doctors can
be like, you have Celiac disease. You may also be asymptomatic.
And this is where it's it's a problem because if
the symptoms are UM, you know, not too terrible, like
(11:20):
you can deal with it and you don't even really
think about it. Or if you're asymptomatic, entirely your your
small intestine is still being ravaged by UM, this autoimmune
disorder that you have. Yes, you may not feel terrible,
but it's it's wrecking you. Yeah, you're gonna become malnoursed
you're at risk for in India and osteoporocess and all
this other stuff as well. Well. One stat that's in
(11:41):
this article. Um I think Molly Edmonds wrote this, right,
she did, of stuff Mom never told you, and our
our chief medical correspondent. Uh. For every person that is diagnosed,
about thirty people habit and are undiagnosed. Yeah, that's that's huge.
That's huge underdiagnosis. So they think you're just gassy and
fatigued and irritable. Right. And one of the problems why
(12:03):
or one of the reasons why it's so underdiagnosed, as
a lot of these symptoms mimic other um more or
other better understood disease like cystic fibrosis. Yeah, we mentioned
IBS and Cron's disease, which I thought was interesting, which
I think is related somehow, is it? Though? They usually
have to take out part of your intestine for chron disease. Uh.
(12:26):
So Molly suggests, you know, to be your own advocate,
which is always a good idea and because a lot
of doctors will bypass that. But I bet these days
doctors are hearing more and more from people saying I
think I might have Celiac disease, right, and also a
lot of people as Celiac disease and the idea of
gluten and eating a gluten free diet, which as it
stands right now is the only treatment for Celiac disease.
(12:49):
Is eating a gluten free diet. Um is more and
more people are become aware of it. I think a
lot of a lot of people are starting to adopt
that um not only because of celia disease, a lot
of people consider it to be healthier. Yeah, that possibly
gluten is responsible for the widespread depression, murder rates, like
(13:10):
everything that's wrong with the world, it can be traced
to gluten or case in, which is I think, what
the what is the responsible party for lactose intolerance? Right,
It's a lot of people are eating what's called gluten
free casein free diets, right, Well, gluten, you can have
a gluten sensitivity without having Celiac disease, So that's important
to point out. Without having full blown Celiac disease, you
(13:33):
can't have a sensitivity to it. But the things that
I've read say that if you don't have a sensitivity
to it and you're not celiac, you're not Celiac disease,
then there's really no reason to avoid it, and a
lot of it is. It's sort of the fad now, yeah,
it is, but it makes you wonder. Sometimes the mob
mentality is correct. You know. Um, if you do think
(13:56):
you have Celiac disease though, and you're considering adopting a
glute and free diet, hold off and actually go to
the doctor first, that you want to be properly diagnosed. Um,
because once you start, once you adopt the gluten free diet,
it's going to mess with the results of the blood test. Yeah,
you can actually show a false positive for celiac because
you're avoiding gluten in the blood. Or no, it won't
(14:19):
show up. Oh no, I thought it said you can
appear to have Celiac disease. Oh see what I took
from it is that you it won't show up because
your body is not producing the antibodies that they look
for in the blood test. Because adopting a gluten free
diet is so um effective that your body starts healing
(14:40):
itself pretty quickly. Am I wrong? I don't know. You know,
it just says it can distort the blood test, So
it just messes. It just messes with it one way
or the other. Right, So, if you want to be
diagnosed with celiac disease, I think you have it. Go
get diagnosed, and then adopt the gluten free lifestyle. And
that is the good news that, um, you're gonna stop
experiencing symptoms in the first within a couple of days,
(15:00):
possibly a week or so, and then your small intestine
will begin to repair itself and function correctly. Yeah, because
it's really it's just the gluten that your body's reacting to.
And if there's no gluten, hey, yeah, they call it disease.
I guess it qualifies, but it's to me it's more
of a condition. If you can just quit eating gluten,
it will repair itself, although it's uncurable, so I guess
(15:22):
it is technically disease. And we talked about UM diets, right,
the gluten free case and free diet is actually UM
A lot of parents of autistic kids, which, by the way,
I checked with the guy who has an autistic kid,
and he said it's cool to call him autistics yet
autistics rather than people with autism or both. He said
he thought it was he'd been doing it for the
(15:43):
last twenty years, So that's just his opinion, right, but
at the very least he won't be offended. But there's
a certain amount of logic to UM feeding kids with
autism a gluten free case and free diet, And basically
the logic behind in it is that kids with autism
overproduced certain peptides that break down these things, and for
(16:06):
some reason, this process in the brain treats these the
compounds when they're broken down as opiates and cause kids
to behave differently from other kids, which apparently explains autism.
And it's it's not vetted enough. There haven't been enough
studies apparently to prove or disprove it, but that there's
(16:27):
a lot of parents of autistic kids who are not
feeding them gluten or case and well, we're just learning
so much about autism now we need to do that
as a podcast at some point. Oh, definitely, because all
the controversy around the UH shots that kids get causing
autism and stuff like that. Yeah, there's and it still
remains even after that one doctor who basically started that
(16:49):
whole thing was completely discredited. Yeah, well, there's just so
much cynicism and UM suspicion towards you know, the establishment.
So we'll we'll do autism. We're promising that. Uh. So
we were talking about the fact that gluten products are
lousy with this stuff these days. It's obviously if it's
in wheat, barley and rye, it's gonna be in any
(17:11):
kind of baked good with this stuff, crackers, pasta, cereal bread. Um.
But it's also and some weird things, not weird things,
but it's weird that it's in these things, like salad
dressing is so weird, Uh, salad dressing, soy sauce, peanut butter,
ice cream, pudding, lipstick and toothpaste, beer, obviously, vitamins, an
(17:34):
envelope adhesive. Yeah, which makes me wonder is that when
she has like a really heightened uh gluten allergy perhaps So, Yeah,
it's in all those things. Obviously any kind of anything
made with flour, so you don't might not think about
soup like a chowder or a gravy that's sticking with flower.
I wouldn't want to live if I couldn't eat gravy. Yeah,
(17:59):
you can want to live a vy free life. Either
that or my my bowel movements would stink because I
would not stop eating gravy. What's the point If you
can't eat gravy, what's the point of eating anything. I'm
with you, either you do the dark brown gravy or
like the light brown, pretty anything. I prefer brown gravy,
like dark brown like KFC. Yes, but I will eat
(18:19):
any gravy really, alright. Uh. The other good thing about
the fact that gluten is all over everyone's radar now,
UM is that if you do want to live a
gluten free life, it's a lot easier now too, because
there's tons of products now that are touting being gluten
gluten free, including gluten free beer. Yeah. What do you
know the brands? It was curious about that. No, but
(18:43):
there's there's there's several out there. I think Terrapin, one
of our breweries from beloved Athens, Georgia, has a gluten
free beer. I think, yeah, I think there's that. Several
brands have started to UM carry to produce gluten free beer.
Because really all you need is is some sort of
starch to get things going. It doesn't have to be wet.
(19:04):
You should consumably use rice. There's also a soy vodka
that's awful, but it's out there. UM because think about it,
gluten vodka is often made from grain, and you're in
big trouble with with whiskey vodka. They I have had it.
It was one of the few shots free shots I've
ever given back in my life. It was now when
(19:24):
you mean give it back, you spit it back at
the bar to no. Um. I grabbed two and I
did one and actually caught the the girl who was
handing him out attention and put it back on the tray.
Put the little test tuo back in the thing. Bad. Uh.
What was I gonna say, Josh, oh, if you're eating out,
you're gonna want to talk to your waiter or chef.
(19:45):
And a lot of you know, trendy restaurants these days
have a little gluten free sections too, because everyone thinks
that they're they have celia because he's now well right well.
And not only that, there's a lot of people out
there who, like you said, think it's healthy. It's it's
kind of the fad. So there's strengthen numbers as far
as consumer ship goes UM And apparently between two thousand
and two, No, two thousand four and two thousand nine,
(20:07):
in five years UM, the amount of gluten free products
on the market increase, according to the neil Thing Company. Well,
and they know what they're talking about. Well, they want
to make a buck. Well it's who the neil Thing company. No,
just people that make the products that you consume. They
want to make a buck. So they know that gluten
free is a big deal, so they slap gluten free
on there and obviously remove the gluten. I'm not saying
(20:29):
they're lying to everyone. You know, Mellow Mushroom has a
gluten free pizza. Of course they do. Uh. Molly points
out that one thing you can do is um instead
of to try and avoid gluten, just look at a
list of safe foods that might be easier, just to
think in the realm of vegetables and fruits, nuts, dry beans,
(20:51):
milk and get clear soup, no gravy, dairy and by
the chuck, I want to correct myself corn rice. So
I re tales sales of gluten free products have increased,
se not the number of products on the market. Okay,
retail sales, but still I think that that's directly proportionate
to the number of products on the market. Also, Josh
(21:12):
Potato and Chema, I like how you say that, How
should I say it? I think that's right, okay, instead
of quinola quella. How I've always said, um, what chuck,
what happens if you are a Catholic? You're in big trouble,
aren't you. Yeah? Like it's it's made with with wheat
and they're not going to bend on that, right, And
that the the the Pope the Catholic churches actually issued
(21:36):
a ruling. Pope, Yeah, oh yeah, you're right. He just
he looks creepy. That's the reason. Okay, I'm glad you
said that. Um. The the Catholic Church issued a ruling
on the presence of gluten in the communion wafers and
said that the true Eucharist bread must be made with wheat. Right.
(22:00):
Apparently there is a young girl whose um communion was
nullified by the Catholic Church because she had been she
had received her first communion as a low gluten wafer,
which the Protestants have come to embrace. So they said
they didn't count. They said she's not a Catholic like
she she didn't. There are several rights to Catholicism. There's baptism,
(22:22):
first communion, first penance, confirmation, marriage, and last rights right
and she can still off right. Um, so one of
her I guess points of Catholicism was literally overturned hers
personally by the Catholic Church because she had received a
low gluten wafer. And they wonder why Catholicism is losing
(22:43):
It's it's a members because they're basically saying to her,
you're we're forcing you to have stinky poop, little girl, girl,
we don't care if you can die from this. Well
it's only one little wafer though. Well the problem also is, um,
the Protestants have embraced low gluten wafer, but low gluten
doesn't mean no gluten, so there's kind of that too.
(23:06):
I mean, people with severe Celiac disease can you know,
still have a pretty bad reaction to a comedian wafer?
And check? This is a big deal. I mean it's
not to you and me, but to you know, devout
cast who have Celiac disease, this is a big deal. Yeah,
it's a very important right for them. And it is
very disappointing that the Church came out and ruled like no, sorry,
(23:29):
it's like roll with the changes a little bit, you know,
which is weird because the Church has been known to
you know, evolve over time, like there used to be
such a thing as purgatory. Not anymore, according to the
Catholic Church. But the Eucharist has to be made with wheat. Interesting,
it is interesting. I think we said the word gluten
enough now to where it sounds funny to me in
(23:50):
my head. Yeah, it sounds very Midwest, northern Midwestern gluten. Yeah,
gluten like sh Morgan's board or something. Do you have
anything else? I got nothing else, So I mean I
could keep talking for a while. No, I just say
if you if you think you have a gluten sensitivity, uh,
you can. You should go see a doctor, get your
blood test. I think after the blood test, I'll even
(24:11):
do a biopsy. If you're small intestin, I guess. And
if you're a heavy smoker and you're not sure if
you have a gluten sensitivity, ask a friend or loved
one who lives with you. They'll tell you, oh, because
you can't smell, got you. And if you want to
learn more about Celiac disease, uh, and whether or not
it's plural, you can type that in C E L
(24:32):
I A C in the handy search bar at how
Stuff Works dot com they'll bring up a very interesting
and concise article by Molly Edmunds who manages to marry
Greek mythology and autoimmune disorders of the intestine pretty definitely
really Yeah in the intro, Yeah, since I said a
handy search bar, that means then it's time for the
(24:52):
listener mail. Yeah, Josh, I'm gonna call this. Uh, a
couple of emails from the same girl. Okay, first kiss stuff,
And then there was an update you'll see what I
mean from Alison. Yes, guys, you asked for a story
about a first kiss. I think I have just the one. Uh.
If you hold on through the cheesy parts, you'll see
(25:14):
how it all comes back to you. Guys. Is this
the girl from who had her first kiss at seven? Uh?
Now I already read that one. Yeah, I thought this
was a follow up. Now this is different girl. When
I was eighteen, she was a late bloomer too, because
she was eighteen to late bloomers. I interned for a
summer in Paris, staying at an international house students in
(25:35):
turns like she she wasn't allowed to leave parents. She said,
I met the most wonderful people there, two English brothers
and an Irishman became my particular friends and we decided
to go on a weekend trip to Venice, and it
turned of fortune. Our last night landed me alone on
a dock in Venice with one of the Brits that
had shyly been flirting with me for months. It may
(25:56):
have been pheromones, It may have been that our teeth
did not smash together here, but my first kiss led
to my first love. Well, we have been together for
two years now, all of it long distance. On a
return vacation to Italy we took last winter, the brit
introduced me to stuff you should know. I've been hooked
ever since, and as sad as it may sound, you
guys helped to stay connected by either sharing of our
(26:17):
headphones l O L ngto your podcast as we traveled,
or listening separately before we go to bed and ocean apart,
only to discuss the newest episode in the morning. Here's
an update. She sent me an update a couple of
weeks later. The brit and I actually broke up for
a few months. Uh with his career about to start
(26:37):
in London and my graduate studies starting next year in
New York, and a few other complications. However, he said
he's made a mistake and he's trying to win me back.
He's even willing to move to New York for me. Sweet.
He's just waiting for me to decide if that's what
I want. And I've been getting me I've been giving
him a hard time as I make up my mind. Uh.
I quote directly when he said, listening to Josh and
(26:59):
Chuck it and I before I go to bed without
you his torture, Well that it's really sweet. This guy's
pretty cool. It read a different way listening to Josh
and Chuck his torture. I told you, Uh, I told
you that you guys play an important partner lives. To
make a long story short, I want to give him
a second chance. He's a love of my life. Would
(27:20):
there be any chance that you could read my email
and perhaps let him know that I am still those Wow?
I just got chills. Chuck so nameless. Brett Alison says
she still loves you. It sounds like you're moving to
New York. But it's like the Big Apples calling your
name my friend. So if you had a secret, I'm sorry,
not so secret. Kiss on a dock in Venice with
(27:42):
the girl named Alison. Then then we're talking to you
because she didn't give a name, so she calls him Britt.
Maybe his name is Britt, maybe Britt from Great Britain.
So that's it. Wow. Wow, And she since bugged me
a couple of times like, are you gonna read it?
It's like, have you not talked to him? Right? Yeah?
Refusing to contact him until it comes out. It's weird.
(28:04):
Well I hope they don't. Actually, I hope he doesn't
move on because he didn't because we didn't publish fast enough. Wow. Wow.
I can't even think of something to call for. That
was really sweet. Um. If you've ever been on a
boat that started sinking, we want to hear about it. Yes,
hopefully the brit will be flying actually to New York
(28:27):
rather than sailing a steamership here. If you've ever been
on a boat that started sinking, Uh, we want to
hear about that story. You should probably just go ahead
and put it in an email and you can address
that email to Stuff podcast at how stuff works dot com.
(28:50):
For more on this and thousands of other topics. Is
it how stuff works dot com. To learn more about
the podcast, click on the podcast icon in the upper
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has a ride. Download it today on iTunes, brought to
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(29:10):
are you
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