SYSK Selects: How Circumcision Works

Circumcision is a common practice in which the foreskin of a male's penis is removed, typically as a baby. In this classic episode, Josh and Chuck take a look at the origins, practices, and arguments for and against circumcision in this episode.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everybody, It's November thirty two ten. What now it's not,
but I'm gonna bring you back in time. We're all
getting in the way back machine for this Saturday select everyone,
and we're going back to November because we published How
Circumcision Works that day and uh, this is a good one.

(00:21):
It kind of tied up medical some medical science along
with um. While the controversies around circumcision, there's really no
way around that. It's not a it's not an open
and closed, uh discussion. It's very much open for debate,
and we get into it in this episode. It is.
It's a pretty good one. So if you think you

(00:43):
can handle it, listen to How Circumcision Works right now.
Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works
dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Joshua

(01:06):
m Clark. With me is Charles W. Bryant. That makes
this stuff. You should nizzo. Um and uh that's that. Hi, Hey,
josh m Clark. Joshua Clark. Yes, you don't have a
fancy setup today, I have an intro. Okay, let's hear it. Okay, Wow, Chuck,

(01:27):
you really kind of waiting up against the wall, aren't
you today. Are you waiting on me a little bit? Okay? Um?
Are you ready? I'm ready, Chuck, Josh, have you ever
heard of Lloyd Schofield? I have not. Yes, you have?
You always do this? Who is he? Uh? He is
a guy out in San Francisco who has proposed for

(01:47):
next Novembers. Um, I guess referendum elections. It wouldn't even
be mid term. What do you call the elections between
mid term and you know, the big ones quarter term?
I don't know. Okay, we'll call it that. For next
November's ballot in San Francisco, there may be a referendum
if Floyd Scofield has anything to do with it. The
Outright Band's male circumcision in San Francisco. Well, yeah, obviously,

(02:12):
but you gotta start somewhere, Um, scope Field needs signatures
and uh, basically read read the read the provision, Chuck,
the wording of the proposed referendum. Uh. It would make
it a misdemeanor to circumcise, excise, cut, or mutilate the
genitals of a person under eighteen. Right, and he he

(02:35):
says it's genital mutilation. That's how he feels, and other
people feel that way. Too. Yeah, he's definitely not um
on his own in that one. There's some people in
this CBS AP article they're like, it's a little too far.
It should be the choice of the parents, Scofield's idea,
And it's kind of it kind of appears in this
um in the wording of the ballot measure that it's

(02:58):
a parent's choice, but it's not the choice of most
people who are circumcised, because they're generally circumcised as newborn infants. Yeah,
little boys are. And he likened to to tooing because
you're not allowed to to to a child. When did
you start saying tattoo like that? What do you mean
to too? Is that weird? Yeah, it's a little weird.

(03:18):
It's like humans. Well that's what he says. He said that,
you know, to felony to to to a kid. So Jerry,
he's really laughing in there, to tattoo a child, and
so he says it's the same thing. Well, yeah, he's
actually saying it's way way worse than tattooing. Um, but
he he is saying it's along the same lines as
a choice by the parents that is possibly against the

(03:41):
child's will. Later on, UM and that's that. So let's
talk about circumcision, because this is a little that's an
odd approach to me, you know, like the way I've
always understood it is you, you know, there's circumcision out there.
It's not weird, it's not odd. But as you kind
of get older, you realize that there's, you know, two

(04:02):
sides to this whole story, and it kind of is
actually um and you kind of come to realize, like
there's people out there who think that people who aren't
you're circumcised or weird, and people out there who think
that people who are circumcised or weird. Right, exactly, Let's
do some stats, stat man, Well, I think the first

(04:22):
stat we should open with, perhaps is that if you
are an American boy or man in the last thirty years,
then there's about a three and five chance that you
are circumcised here in this country over the past three decades,
although that is falling big time. Yeah, what was the
three and five chance now? Um in two thousand five,

(04:45):
between night and I think two thousand it was about
three and five, right, and then by two thousand five
it had dropped to about fifty three. Yeah, and the
Scofield says that in uh, two thousand nine fell to
thirty three. That's a huge drop, So in a decade
it fell, and they actually think one of the reasons

(05:08):
why is because there's been an increasing presence of Hispanics
in the US, and Hispanics are much much less likely
than any other group, um to circumcise their male infants.
And it's also lower out west and uh, where there's
a larger Hispanic population. Yeah, in the Midwest, there's about
a chance that you are going to circumcise your boy. Uh.

(05:31):
In the South, there's half right, it's like um Russian
roulette with a two barreled two chamber gun. Yeah, sure, uh.
And then out west, Yeah, it's less than a quarter
um of of the male infants are circumcised out there
every year. But ultimately there's about one point two million circumcisions.

(05:52):
Well there were in two thousand five. Yes, so now
we're down to less than that. But in two thousand
five there about one point two million male boys born
in the United States who were circumcised. Right, Yeah, and
since you mentioned that, that about two hundred dollars a pop.
Even though it's included in your in your birth and bill,
it's about two million dollars that UM insurance companies would

(06:15):
love to not have to pay exactly. So there's actually
UM I don't know if it's overt support or maybe
quiet financial support or whatever, but the insurance companies are
very happy to side with the anti circumcision movement and medicaid. Yes,
of course, So Chuck, let's talk about the penis. Let's

(06:55):
talk about the foreskin. That's part of it. We're gonna
say the word penis a whole lot because you can't
avoid it when you're talking about circumcision. That's right, Because
let's just go ahead and set up for our foreign
friends who may not know what circumcision is, like Roller Derby. Uh,
circumcision is when the foreskin of the penis, it's also
called the prep use prepuse is removed, simple as that.

(07:19):
So you've got the prep use, which is the foreskin. Yes,
it covers the tip of the penis, which is also
called the glands g L A N s uh. And
then there's a piece of connective tissue that works much
like the connective tissue that anchors the bottom of your
tongue to the floor of your mouth, called a frenulum.
And that, yes, the prep use connected to the glands. Yeah.

(07:42):
And they also said the inner portion of the foreskin
is also much like the inside of your mouth, and
that it has a natural moisture to lubricate the glands.
It's hot and moist in there, that's what it says. Yes, um, yeah,
it provides luber cation which kind of keeps it safe
and sheathed. I guess right, yeah, from abrasion. And like

(08:06):
they've mentioned, cold and wind dry, the dry winter air
can be rough on a glands. Yeah. And they this
was the Tom Sheef article, and my hat is off
to him for this one. Yes, Tom did a great
job with us. I liked your first response, um, chuck.
It also contains the prep use, also contains um, some

(08:26):
nerve cells, bundles blood, special blood cells. Just it makes
the the penis that much more sensitive. And the fact
that it's uh, it produces movement aids in stimulation. Yeah,
and lubrication. So there's a lot of people who are
happy with their prep use or foreskin and are very
glad that they are um uncut, as the anti circumcision

(08:51):
groups would call it right, right or natural is another
one that's right. And since we're talking about the four skin.
It's not the same on all dudes. It's uh like
every human body part. It varies from person to person. Uh.
And some men actually are sort of naturally circumcised because
they're either born with very little foreskin, or they have
foreskins that actually retract during puberty they go or maybe

(09:17):
sad trombone and uh, they do serve a protective purpose,
but they can also And for people that are on
both sides, we're gonna present both sides of the argument.
So don't say you guys are just talking about this
one side. We're gonna talk about both sides, sure of course.
But some one camp believes that, uh, it can cause
some problems. Well it can. I think everybody agrees on

(09:40):
these like these are the very rare problems that can
come about it, and having force, we should say that
it's rare, though, because one of the big problems that
the anti circumcision folks have is that these are overstated.
Like when you say it can it's easier to get
dirty and bacteria can build up and all these things
can happen. That is true, but it's not like if

(10:03):
you skip a shower, this is gonna happen. Well, let's
talk about this because there there are some some problems
that can arise just from having an or normal foreskin.
One of those problems because it is like the inside
of your mouth and they're warm, moist. You gotta keep
it clean. You do have to keep it clean. And
if you don't, a um, white build up, a white,

(10:24):
soapy build up, soapy, soupy. This say is cheesy in
the article cheesy. That's right, A white, cheesy build up
called smeg mum can develop. Um. And once you start
developing a white, cheesy build up called smegma within your foreskin, um,
you want to take a really hard, long look at
your grooming habits. Yeah, did you say smegmum? Smegma? Okay,

(10:48):
smegmums maybe the plural. No, I want to make sure
you were saying it right, s magma, because the last
thing I want is listener mail on the pronunciation of smegma.
We get all these voice files. Although I've awaysa smegma,
but I think it's magma. Yeah, maybe I've just said
smegma for humor sake. Maybe all right, that was around
the time wains World was out, wasn't it. Probably um,

(11:10):
that's just one but that's probably a pretty minor thing.
I'm sure that's easily corrected. Your force game, though, can
also be um well. It can develop to two ways,
too tight or too loose, right and each other problems.
Too tight, it can cause a condition known as pimosis.

(11:31):
It's like trying to put on a sweater that's way
too small for you. It's a good way to look
at it, and that is a medical that's the main
medical determinant for whether or not you should get a circumcision.
Like the main medical reason would be phi mosis. I
think that's probably because it's the most frequent. It's probably
the most frequent problem. You think, I think, Okay, if

(11:51):
it's too loose, then it's going to be called paraphymosis.
And that's like wearing your dad's sweater. Yes, And it
can cause swelling of the glands and the forced in
And there's also something called balance post thesis, which is
swelling of the mucous surfaces of the four skin and
that can lead to skin disease, UH, problems with the urethra, pain,

(12:17):
all sorts of things that you don't want to have
in general, like why God, why, I would imagine so
you can have your frenulum attached too tightly. That's the
frenulum brevi where it's just like that's like trying to
poke your head through that very very tight sweater. That's
a good way to look at it as well. Thank you, Chuck,
very evocative, Josh. And um circumcision can help correct all

(12:38):
of these problems, but it is rarely a medically necessary
to get circumcanced. Right. And like we said, um, these
problems do exist. They are serious problems. It's at the
very least uncomfortable, if not, you know, downright dangerous. Um.
And I think both sides agree that there are circumstances
such as these that do UM warrant circumcision. The problem

(13:01):
is most circumcision. I'm sure the vast majority of circumcisions
are um customary, cultural preventative, right, yeah, sociological in nature.
Let's talk about the origins of circumcision. When did humans
get the idea to cut the foreskin off of boys penises? Well?

(13:22):
Did it start with the Bible? This is where tom started.
But no, it didn't start with the As far back
as we can find, the Egyptians were doing Okay, that's
what we understand. Okay, you want to talk about that, Well,
let's talk about the Bible first, because in the Book
of Genesis God made a covenant with Abraham, and as
we all know, Abraham was a Jewish patriarch and his descendants,

(13:45):
Abraham was the patriarch of the houses of the Jews
and the Muslims. Dude, really, yes, Isaac, his son went
on to found the Jews. Well, went on to found
Judaism with the father Judaism Ishmael. What the other one
was a legitimate son, right, but he went on to
found um Islam. Yes, and Isaac, they said, basically, God's

(14:08):
gonna bless um Jews with riches and success all the
you know, the land will be fruitful if you get
circumcised by your eighth day of life. And not just you,
but your sons, any servants that you capture, any sir,
any sons that those captured servants has All boys have

(14:30):
to be circumcised. And this has led to the fact
that today of Jewish men are in fact circumcised and
um According to biblical tradition, uh Ishmael was circumcised before
he was basically run off from Abraham's family and um
so that kind of formed the basis of the Muslim

(14:51):
tradition of circumcision, which continues today. If you look at
um Muslim texts, the Kuran, apparently it doesn't have any
endorsement or mentioned of secumcision. But most Muslims today still
do circumcise because Muhammad apparently was circumcised. So there, I
guess it's a reverence for their profit. Yes, And today
about two thirds of every circumcised men on the planet

(15:14):
or Muslim of Jewish men, and two thirds of Muslim
and circumcised of all men on the planet are Muslim exactly.
That's a tough one. It's kind of an odd qualifier.
Christian sex don't really endorse one way or the other.

(15:36):
They say, like, you know, decide amongst yourselves and Buddhism
and Hinduism. They don't really have a stance one way
or the other. Is that right? That's right? And we
talked about the Egyptians probably being the earliest group as
far as Western culture is concerned. Um like with most things, Uh,
the Egyptians came up with this idea, not necessarily independently,

(15:58):
or if it did independently, they weren't the only ones,
but they apparently were the ones who exposed, um, the
early Israelites, early Jews to write this concept, right yeah,
and then uh, at about the same time, possibly even
before other groups the Mayans and the Aztecs. Yeah, we're
both um circumcising their boys. Um, indigenous Australians, African Asian

(16:24):
and other American tribes, right yeah. And Georgians. Yeah, what
is that that I've never heard of them? The coal Colchians. Yeah,
I hadn't heard of him either, but described them. So
they were ancient people that is now modern day Georgia
and they were into it. Yeah, well they practiced it.
And then so here in the West, Um, I guess

(16:47):
there was strictly religious until about the nineteenth century, right,
and then all of a sudden, medicine is like we
we can do that. Well yeah, but that's also around
the same time that they were doing all sorts of
things saying that this could solve this this like we
can treat v D and we can cure homosexuality with circumcision,
and uh, impotence was another one. So they were a

(17:09):
little bit off base, I would say, they're as in
way off base, I would think, so, yeah, but it
did it did have a lasting impression circumcision did become
associated with the medical establishment here in the West, and
that I think that's translated elsewhere in the Jewish faith.
A um mohel mohole mole mole, yeah, mole okay, Um,

(17:32):
they still perform briss us briss i brisom I just
the only thing I know about that is from Seinfeld
when Jerry was supposed to perform the snap. Um. They
they may still perform these procedures, Uh, in the Arab world,
in the Muslim world, Um, that's it's generally done in

(17:55):
the medical realm um. And then that's actually that was
taken away from barber's in ancient Turkey and yeah, in
Turkey and the Middle East of the Middle Ages, barbers
used to do amputations, blood lettings and circumcisions. Blood lettings

(18:15):
like give you a nice bleating and you'll be feeling better,
get all the toxins out of your blood. Uh. Let's
talk about it around the globe, like how how it
actually goes down like today? Yeah, Like the Jews still
still do it traditionally before the Eighth Day, they kind
of stick to that. And Egypt it' um anywhere from

(18:35):
birth to about eight years old and in Malaysia. It's
in other places it's like a rite of passage, like
at early adolescence. Yeah, some um and some Muslim cultures.
Once a boy can recite the Koran um once like
all the way through right right, which I mean think
about that and think about if you don't want to

(18:56):
get circumcised. Like remember one, once a boy can do
that um there that's associated with the time when he'll
be circumcised after that. And you didn't see there's some
really sad cute pictures in this article. Now. Yeah, there's
a little boy who's clutching his genitalia under his hospital
gown and crying because he's like second in line to

(19:18):
be circumcised. There's a kid who's being circumcised on page zero.
It's sad stuff. I'm glad I don't print the pictures out.
I don't want to see that. In Africa, Josh, it
is also in a lot of tribes, coming of age
type of thing. And here's the deal in Africa, though
sometimes there's not in these remote areas a trained professional

(19:39):
with all the right equipment, and they do it anyway.
And because of this, there's like a thirty five percent
increased risk of complications six percent, like severe complications that
possibly um result in partial or full amputation of the penis. Yeah. Um,
but sometimes a traveling uh circumcis or will roll through

(20:00):
town and his ice cream truck, and everybody comes out
and UH with boys of all ages because they know
the safe, real doctor with the real clean equipment is there,
and so they'll bring up boys of all ages to
get circumcised when he rolls through. Yes, which is a
good thing that happens. Asia, it's extremely rare unless they
have um thriving Muslim populations. But in Asia, among Asian cultures,

(20:25):
it's it's pretty uncommon, except chuck. In South Korea and
the Philippines, circumcision is pretty common. Who knew the American
serviceman knew? Yeah? Is that the reason why Korea, Yes,
and the Philippines. American servicemen stationed there in the ladder
half Beginning in the ladder half of the twentieth century.
UM apparently got the word leaked out that they were

(20:49):
missing their pre pious and UM. South Koreans and Filipinos
started following suit already. Well, that's circumcision around the globe today.
If we forgot your country then we apologize. Please write
in Shall we talk about the procedure itself? Yeah, as
Tom put it next up, the big show. Is that
what he said? I didn't see that part. There's some

(21:12):
did you? So you didn't see the pictures, the illustrations
like step by step illustration. I didn't need it, dotted
lines like where you clip out a coupon, have a
pretty get what's going on down there? So I didn't.
I was just fine with the words. Uh so what
happens Josh is ah a baby? If it's a baby

(21:32):
in infant circumcision, then they strapped the baby down of
course arms and legs, which it just seems like an
awful thing to bed start when you read it. Um,
they give a either a topical anesthetic, uh you know,
rubbed around the area or injected around the base of
the penis to numb the area. Um. There are a
few different devices that the person performing the procedure can

(21:56):
choose from, and I know you know a little bit
about these. I do. Let's hear it. There's like three things. Well,
there's the Gomko clamp, the Mogan clamp, and the Plasta
bell device. Right, so I did. I didn't really look
into the Mogan clamp um because it just too wow.
But the Gomco clamp um has been around for a

(22:17):
while and it sounds like something you could see on
a late night TV head. You can actually buy them
on the internet for bucks. Yeah, search Gomco clamp it
comes up and do not do not buy one and
do this at home. That is in no way in endorsement,
and it just stop stop right now. Um there. The

(22:38):
Gomko clamp involves a bell with a an arm, an
appendage that comes off the tip of the bell. Put
that in, pull the um foreskin up around the bell.
So what you're doing is you're inserting this metal layer
between the glands and the foreskin. Like all these things,
you're separating the foreskin from the gland exactly. That's pretty
much the key to circumcision um. You pull it up around,

(23:01):
you slide it through this hole, has an arm attached
to the top of the bell holding everything taut, and
then you cut around it and remove the four skin.
The plastic bell um devices it's similar. It doesn't have
the arm and the clamp holding everything, but basically you're
just you're putting a bell in between the glands and
the four skin and um. Then you you basically tie

(23:25):
off the suture around the the four skin that's been
pulled up, and then you cut that and then eventually,
after like a few days, the bell falls off and
you're fine, supposedly well, And that's about the recovery period.
Uh period if you're an infant is about three to
four days. Plan on having a grumpy little baby boy

(23:48):
for those next few days, and plan on keeping the
area really really clean and maybe you might even have
to bandage it, and just you got to make sure
that you keep it uh separate from diaper poopoo, because
you don't want a fresh surgery being around fecal matter.
Not not a good thing. No, it's you're you're looking

(24:09):
at a pretty hefty, little horrible infection there. And it
takes about thirty minutes. Yeah, if you're an adult, you
don't necessarily need to use any of these other bells
or whistles literally bells, um. But you can just pull
the for skin forward, make a couple of incisions, UM,
cut off the frenulum, stitch back. Basically, you're stitching this
hanging loose skin to the just to the corona, which

(24:33):
is the strip just below the gland um and ba
boom bada being no sex for a couple of weeks,
which no one should have to tell you that, but
we're telling you that. Yeah, that would be common sense
if you asked me, then it's done. So why are
people doing this, Chuck, I mean, think about that, especially
as an adult. Why why are people circumcising uh, both

(24:54):
there themselves and their infant sons? Why is it like
all the rage? So this is the argument four, and
we will cover the argument against before you get upset
by Mr Scofield. The reasons, some of the reasons, Josh
are obviously, like we said, you're raised in a religion
or culture where that's the thing you do, then you
would probably do that. Um. Some fathers think that their

(25:18):
son's penis should kind of be like theirs, and they're
a little bit fact. Um. Nine tenths of circumcised men
opt to have their sons circumcised, and about three quarters
of uncircumcised men opt to have their sons not circumcised.
Yeah about natural. Interesting, Uh, some parents want their sons

(25:40):
to just be like the rest of the little boys.
If and then if you live in the United States
and most boys are like that, They don't want you
to stand out in the locker room and potentially be
teased that kind of thing. Um, this one uncircumcised men
or twice as likely to contract HPV and pass that along.

(26:01):
It's what it's what of here? And apparently circumcision also
helps prevent or protect against Chlamydian syphilis, they say, and
this is from the Journal of American Medical Association. We
should say, we should the same. Same goes with a
study that found recently that UM areas that don't circumcise,
or where circumcision is uncommon um tend to have higher

(26:24):
prevalences of HIV. I don't know if those two are causal,
like HIV is more easily contracted because there's this maybe
the blood vessels are closer to the surface when the
foreskin is attached, yeah, um, or if it's just correlated,
like maybe they have maybe these areas have lesser healthcare

(26:50):
right right or less adequate healthcare well at any rate,
they put that number at six less likely. But it's
only it's not for male to male sex. It's only
female to male train mission of HIV is what it says. Go.
I know, uh, some people think it's cleaner but that's
completely unsupported from what I can tell medically. Right, that's

(27:11):
that's just a perception, if I'm not mistaken. And then
there are some who just think it's prettier, yeah, better looking,
sleeker fish. All right, Josh, that's the case for generally.

(27:38):
Let's talk about people who are against this, like Mr Scofield.
What are their arguments. Well, I get the impression that
there's a lot of people who well, the people who
are against it are vehemently against it. One of the
biggest arguments is that it's um mutilation. Yeah, general mutilation.
It is genital mutilation. Female um circumcision, which we'll talk
a little bit more about in a minute, is basically

(28:02):
considered now in the Western world, the developed world, female
genital mutilation, not female circumcision any longer. And the one
of the big points among anti circumcision people is that
this is the same thing with men. It's just for
some reason more accepted in the West than female circumcision is. Yeah,

(28:22):
but if you're against it, you probably think it's old
fashioned and unnecessary. Unnecessary is a big one. The American
Academy of Pediatrics considered this in and said, you know,
we're not gonna endorse this. We're not gonna come out
against it. But we've looked at all of the information.
We see no medical reason to do this, and we're
not gonna endorse it. So that's that's a big one

(28:43):
that the the anti circumcision lobby sites. Yeah. When I
was when I read that that they didn't endorse it,
or they said that you shouldn't do it. This is
such a tender subject. That kind of got the impression
they were a little bit like, I ain't going there.
Why don't you just decide. We don't have a lot
of data either way, so we're not gonna say it's
I get the impression that it's a lot like the

(29:05):
natural birth movement. There's a lot of probably similar sentiment,
maybe a lot of crossover actually between the two. Josh,
there are risks of scarring, their risks of infection. Yeah,
this is a big one right here. It can go wrong. Yeah,
and it does like you can have your penis lopped
off because of a bad circumcision. Yeah, that's a pretty
good reason not to do it. I don't have it

(29:26):
super common, but it's very uncommon. But when you're talking
about your your maybe your only male son. It can
only be a male son, but your only son. Do
you want to take that kind of risk? I don't
know yet. Well, yeah, sure, I don't know. Stop pressuring me. No,
I'm not pressuring you. I was just I'm not asking you.

(29:46):
I'm just asking theoretically. But I think that's probably the
sentiment among a lot of like first time parents, you know,
like should we do this? I haven't really thought about
it before, and like hold account. Now we have to
decide or do we um. Another another argument against is
that you take away the child's right to choose. Um.
There are there is a procedure called an epipasm which um,

(30:10):
there's actually a surgical procedure which is kind of a
skin graft. Um. Yeah, is not always desirable. Sometimes you
get a different color, different texture because this is someone
else's foreskin or else it's skin from elsewhere on your body.
That's I would say. And then there's also like a
non there's non surgical things you can do to right
chuck to to to create a new foreskin, to recreate it. Yes, Josh,

(30:36):
there are non surgical ways. And I have never heard
of this at all. I hadn't either until I read
this article. Um over time, and we're not recommending that
you try this at home, by the way, this is
this is something you really need to know a lot
about um over time. Though. You can apparently stretch your
foreskin using weights and straps and it will eventually stretch

(30:59):
to where it could cover your glands. That's what they say.
There's another method that has UH involves inflating little balloons
under your skin, under your penile skin prompt new skin
cell growth. I guess, to fill in the void, I guess,
and then when you deflate the balloons, you've got all
that extra skin right, and you go to So that's

(31:19):
an epipasum. So yeah, the point is um one of
the arguments against circumcisions that you take away a kid's
right to choose, and if the kid turns like fifty
and goes I really want to for skin, basically he
doesn't have a lot of options available to him balloons
and weights and straps and skin graphs and skin graphs. Yeah,

(31:41):
so that's that's another reason. What are some more reasons, Chuckers, Well,
like we said, in the foreskin, there's a lot of
sensitive areas for sexual stimulation, and that once you lose
that it's gone. Yeah, so theoretically you're cutting down on
the man's pleasure centers. So I'm white sure, and he
wants to do that to your kid, puritan, I don't know. Uh,

(32:04):
they say, you know, like psychologists might say that, Um,
a child might remember this somehow, resulting in lingering psychological repercussions.
Its very Freudian sentence. Uh. Some people think it's better
looking to have the foreskin in prettier that way. Yeah,
I would like to conduct a poll. I don't know
how we could do this conceivably, but I would like to,

(32:25):
I know, not and not and not get in trouble right, Um,
but I am curious, like where, like which one is
considered more attractive? I have no idea. Um, so I'm
I'm I'm very curious, you know, like is it like
do people think people who like a foreskin? I think
those people are weird or vice versa. Or I'm very curious.

(32:47):
This is all just I'm curious this. You've been even
fascinated by this whole thing, Huh? I have from paid zero. Uh.
And there are a couple more reasons some men subconsciously
might not feel complete. And then the big reason you're
born with it, so that might mean that you should
keep it on your body. Yeah, Like, if we didn't
need it, why would we have it? And it have

(33:08):
whether you whether you believe in creationism or evolution, there's that.
Both of those kind of touch upon that. Yeah, we
wouldn't have it if we didn't need it, it didn't
serve some purpose. Did you already cover the language part?
I think you'd mentioned that right a little bit. If
you are talking to somebody who is in the anti

(33:29):
circumcision camp, you don't want to use the term uncircumcised
because it implies that there is something wrong, that there's
something missing, They something hasn't been done yet. That's not
the norm, right, and so they people in the anti
circumcision camp tend to prefer um terms like natural, uncut,

(33:52):
full length, intact, intact. Yeah, yeah, we would be remiss, Josh,
you did mention female genital mutilation. This is a big
problem around the world. Between a hundred and a hundred
and forty million women have been victims of this um
A lot of times there are I'm sorry all the time.

(34:12):
There's no medical reason for doing this, Like they will
remove the clitterest sometimes. Yeah, this actually, um was kind
of It came about in the West too. It's still
a huge problem in Africa apparently, UM. Two million girls
under the age of ten have undergone female genital mutilation. UM.

(34:34):
And that's just Africa alone. Um. But in the West
it was popular. I had no idea. But here in
the West, in the United States, until ninety seven, Blue
Cross covered its female They covered clitter ectomy, clitter clitter clittery, cliterodectomy,
that's awful. Cliterodectomy, which is the partial total removal of

(34:58):
the clitteress right UM. And this, this fad of circumcision
came about at about the same time in the nineteenth
century and for the same reasons as male circumcision, which
is yet another argument against male circumcision because we've come
to see female circumcision as barbaric, even though they were

(35:18):
both brought up for the same reasons, which was it's cleaner,
it's more hygienic, it's it's healthier. And also with girls,
they had the added bonus of it reduces reduces their
sexual pleasure from masturbation. Therefore it will it's much more
morally hygienic as well. This is one of the reasons
why it's become or come to be seen as barbaric

(35:41):
because it actually does reduce tremendously the sensitivity a woman
can experience in sex. Right, there's a lot of other
problems with it too. Um. There's a little procedure called
in fabulation that basically is you cut the inner outer
lay you so that it grows back to narrow or

(36:04):
close the vagina. And what's the idea here are they
Is it a moral thing where they're trying to prevent
their daughters from being tempted to have sex or having sex. Yes,
because to to get this reversed, you to have children,
to have sex, to conceive, to do all these things,
you basically have to have the procedure reversed. And then
in some cultures that promote this um after childbirth, after

(36:28):
the reproductive years, it's closed up again. So not only
are you undergoing it this first time, you're having a
reverse and then you're having it done again. So it
is a huge problem and it is viewed as barbaric
in the West, um, and the World Health Organization has
come out starting against this, and then I guess over
the ensuing decades really lobbied the rest of the u

(36:50):
N and and got much wider support. In February two
thousand eight, pretty much the entire un issued the statement
saying like this has to stop. This is really bad.
But it's still continues. It happens in the US, it
happens in um Great Britain, and a lot of the
minority African populations that immigrate here immigrate here. It's it's

(37:11):
a problem. Yeah, well, thank god for the w h
O in. Groups like UNICEF and other human rights groups
are trying to get the word out on that too. Right,
But Chuck, we just arrived at a really kind of
a hinky place. Like everybody agrees this is barbaric. One
of the reasons why is because it serves absolutely no
medical reason whatsoever. No, there's no medical purpose to it.

(37:34):
It's all just basically chastity. Um, so we all agree
that that's barbaric. If there's really no medical reason for
male circumcision, isn't the same thing? Is it barbaric? Well?
People against it sure say it is, people like Schofield.
And I'm not here to make a judgment either way
because I don't have a son at this point. But

(37:57):
maybe that day will come when I'm gonna have to
make that decision. Hopefully we put out at least some
facts and figures on both sides, some stats. Yeah, it's tricky. Well,
if you want to know more about circumcision and you
want to see probably more illustrations of the male reproductive
organ uh than any other article on the site, including

(38:19):
cut here dots cut along the dotted line dots, you
can you can type circumcision into the search bar at
how stuff works dot com and that will bring all
that stuff up. It's an interesting article, right, yes, sir, uh,
since I said handy search bar while I said search
bar at least right, Yeah, it's time for a listener mail. Yes, Josh,

(38:40):
I thought this might be appropriate. You asked for stories
about people who had their fingers cut off, and what
podcast was at one of them? Yeah, one of the
podcasts one one of the things we did. And so
we got a bunch of stories of people who have
lost fingers, and I picked out three fairly short ones
to read. The one comes from Melanie fro Minnesota. She

(39:01):
did not lose a finger, but her husband's uncle did.
He was doing some woodworking in his garage, solid his thumb,
index finger and part of his middle finger clean off.
His wife rushed him to the hospital. They're able to
reattach the thumb, but not his index finger. They were
never able to find the rest of his ring finger,
and they suspect that the dog ate it. Now he

(39:22):
now has a prosthetic index finger, which he likes to
remove and toss to people just to freak them out.
He was a musician before the accident. He's still able
to play the piano with his faux finger, which is
pretty cool. And he has a winter and summer version.
One his tan and one isn't no way way uh.
This next one is from Abbey from Hampden, Connecticut. Guys

(39:43):
who thought you might find this interesting? I am in
fact missing two fingers, but I still have five fingers
on each hand. Awesome, awesome. This one. The same is
true for my mother and her grandmother. We all have
a slight genetic disorder called polydactylism, which is when you
were born with extra pinkies. The extra fingers were all
cut off at birth because the bones in them were

(40:05):
not fully formed. So now we all have little bumps
on the sides of our hands that were once pinkies
that circumcision of fingers. It is. I kind of wish
I had kept the little extra fingers and that they
were fully functional, because I would use them to play
impossible pieces of music. I told my bio teacher about
Polly dactyalism in high school. She got very excited and

(40:25):
give me extra credit. She gave her extra credit for
missing those fingers. It's pretty cool. Or she gave her
extra credit for being born with two extra fingers, or
being brave enough to admit it in the classroom setting.
All right, And this last one is from James from Ohio, Guys.
I have a missing finger story you might find disturbing.
We're fascinating. In high school, my shop class teacher always

(40:45):
had these crazy stories about his work in the industry field.
In the industry field, and that's pretty wide field, it is.
And one day he had a story to tell us
about a man who was unfortunate enough to lose some fingers. Uh.
The story starts when my shop teacher worked at a
metal sheet shaping factory. I bet you there's a lot
of fingers in one of those places. Um, they make

(41:06):
impossible curves on metal that couldn't normally exist. Fellow worker
decided to pull an all nighter an attempt to work
machinery with coherency. Unfortunately, the fingers of the worker were
caught in the metal working machine, pinched clean off, not
cut pinched off. My teacher explained that it took about
a half an hour to find all the missing fingers,

(41:27):
keep them cool and a fridge until they were able
to reattach them. It's like the Machinist, uh Christian Man.
That movie was messed up. Yes, it was. So we
got a lot more stories and a lot were very
detailed and more gruesome. So we went with these because
it was short and a little lighter in nature. That's
very good. That's all I got. If you have an

(41:49):
email that has absolutely nothing to do with that, we
want to hear about it. You should wrap it up,
send it to us, spank it on the bottom, and
send it to stuff podcast at how stuff works dot
com for more on this and thousands of other topics.
Is it how stuff works dot com. To learn more

(42:10):
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