September 3, 2020 • 40 mins
When Tara Calico mysteriously vanished in 1988, suspected to be the victim of foul play, her case may have gotten lost with the countless other missing person cases in the US, were it not for the discovery of an alarming Polaroid photo in a parking lot 1500 miles away.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody. I don't know if you've heard, but we
have a book coming out finally, finally, after all these years.
It's great, it's fun. You're gonna love it. It's called
Stuff You Should Know Colon, an incomplete compendium of mostly
interesting things, and it's twenty six jam packed chapters that
we wrote with another guy named Knows Parker, who's amazing
(00:23):
and is illustrated amazingly by our illustrator, Carl Manardo. And
it's just an all around joy to pick up and read.
Even though we haven't physically held in our hands yet,
it's like we have Chuck in our dreams so far.
I can't wait to actually see and hold this thing
and smell it, and so should you, so pre order now.
It means a lot to us. The support is a
(00:44):
very big deal, so pre order anywhere books are sold.
Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of My
Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the
podcast asked. I'm Josh Clark, there's Charles W. Scoop Bryant. Uh,
(01:05):
and this is Stuff You Should Know, one of our
infrequent true crime editions. So if you don't like true crime,
probably shouldn't listen to this one because it's about true
crime that goes along with and big time trigger warnings
on this one. If you have family members who have
been sexually assaulted or kidnapped, or if you have children
(01:29):
that you care about at all and they're even safe
in your home, this might be pretty upsetting for you
as it was as it was for me. Yeah, it
is a it's a very sad case just in of itself.
I mean, we're talking about the disappearance of a girl,
UM who was nineteen at the time. Her name was
Tara Calico, and she disappeared in New Mexico from the
area where she lived. UM. And just that just the
(01:53):
fact that she's she's never been found, like she basically
vanished almost without a trace. Um, that's sad enough. And
then the more you dig into the story, it's very sad,
but it also has some like does extra couple of
layers that your average like a true crime missing person,
probably murdered person's story goes that make this case like
(02:15):
one of the most fascinating recent true crime cases that
that I can think of. Yeah, yeah, I know you
didn't like this one at all. No, it was pretty upsetting,
So you feel like you can make it through this one,
I think, so it should be a laugh riot, right
(02:38):
as usual. Um so, Chuckles's just kind of give some
background on this case for everybody who's not familiar. Okay, Yeah,
here's the deal, and you know, ed help help us
put this together. And he takes great pains to point
out quite a few times that we don't know exactly
all the facts, but we know what we know from
(02:59):
accounts um to uh Tara's mom and a little bit
from some other family members and a little bit from
the case files, although I don't think all of those
are available still, but I don't know. I saw otherwise,
Like that's that's the problem with true crime, is like,
especially in the age of the Internet, stuff just gets
piled on with different weird facts that may or may
(03:21):
not be true, and you know, down to the down
to like are the case files still intact that kind
of thing. But yeah, so, so I think you're larger
points where we don't exactly know all of the details, right, Yeah,
what we do know is that in September twenty she
went for a bike ride. She was athletic and took
these very long bike rides anywhere from fifteen to thirty
(03:44):
something miles on a regular basis. She was in nineteen
years old, smart, smart young woman and a student at
University of New Mexico and was living in a place
called I guess Bellin, New Mexico b E L E N.
I think it's bell En bell In. I think so. Yeah,
(04:05):
I think I heard somebody say it like that, Okay,
And she left at nine for this bike ride and
was last seen at eleven forty five on Highway forty seven,
which is kind of the standard route that she usually took. Apparently. Yeah.
Um And there are just a couple other details about
(04:25):
taro Um. She was, like you said, she was an
intelligent person. Um. I believe she was a sophomore at
uh at In College and she was studying psychology or
psychiatry whyn't to. I don't think she decided yet, but
she was in the field of psychology. And she was
a bank teller too. And when she headed out that day,
um is very widely reported that she had told her mom, uh,
(04:48):
if I'm not back by noon, come looking for me. Um.
I saw that mostly reported that she had said it
kind of playfully, jokingly in jest, that kind of thing,
not that she had set out that day going knowing
that she was going to meet her her grim fate, um,
but that she had a walkman with her two and
that she was playing Boston. And I can only assume,
(05:11):
because she was out for a bike ry, that she
was listening to Boston's self titled debut album, which has
Don't Look Back in it, which would be excellent for
riding your bike too. Maybe so, or it could have
been the new one. It could have been. There's several
that they released afterwards, but Boston. She was listening to Boston,
just remember that, that's right. And she was on her
(05:33):
mom's bike, her Huffey bike, and she had a white
T shirt first National Bank of bell Ann and white shorts,
green stripes, white socks, tennis shoes, a butterfly ring with
a diamond insert amethyst stone ring and then ear rings
half inch half inch loop earrings. And she was last
(05:55):
seen chuck from what I from what I understand, on
her way back from her bike ride along Highway forty seven,
UM about I think like am or something like that. Um.
And then that was that was it, Like she was
just riding along listening to her headphones last time she
was seeing. The only other detail that UM adds like
(06:17):
a very cryptic twist to that last sighting, was that
she was reported um being followed. It looked like by
an old timey truck, like one from like the fifties,
I think a Ford truck. UM, like some weird color,
like a dirty gray or something like that. Yeah, and
the cops and there there will be a few different
(06:38):
people working on this case, as is usually the case
when it's missing persons, different agencies get involved. But in
this case, Valenca County Sheriff Romero, his name is Laurence Romero.
He said that they found some bicycle tracks about four
miles south of where she lived, and it looked like
to them that they the bicycle had been dragged off
(06:58):
the side of the road and then back and they
immediately thought that was pretty suspicious. And then when you
put it together with the details of this pickup truck,
then it was all of a sudden a pretty serious
case to them, right, Yeah, I mean, because you know,
if if you can't find a girl, she doesn't show
(07:19):
up home. Um when she says she's going to and
she makes that joking cryptic thing, of course, it's going
to terrify her mom, and it did terrify her mom.
Her mom's name was Patty dole Um and Patty was
married to John dole and Um. Through John, Tara had
two step siblings, Chris, her brother, and her sister step sister,
(07:42):
Michelle Um. And just immediately, Patty was very, very worried
when Tara didn't show up at home, and then once
the once the evidence started coming and she got increasingly worried.
And probably the most tragic figure in this entire story
um is Patty because from the moment like she started
(08:03):
to get worried till the day she died in two
thousand six, Um, she was worried. She was overwrought by this,
like it just took her over and consumed her Um.
But one of the things to her credit for sure,
as we'll see, is that she didn't just like collapse
and buckle and and give in, which she would have.
It would have been very understandable had she done that.
(08:24):
She instead channeled a lot of that fright and worry
and concern into action and spent like the most of
the rest of her life working tirelessly trying to figure
out what happened to her daughter, find some evidence, bring
her home. I don't think she ever gave up the um,
the idea that that Tara might still be out there
(08:45):
UM or at the very least bring bring her killers
to justice. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna go with Tara
for the most tragic figure in this story. But it
was very sad what happened with her mom. She died
in two thousand six, um never getting any answers. Her
biological father died in two thousand two. Her stepfather, you know,
(09:07):
like anyone, still holds out hope, although he you know,
he readily admits this is from and the chances are
are almost zero that anything is ever gonna come to
fruition about this, but he did have She did have
family that was looking out for her, you know, basically
the rest of their lives. Yeah, for sure. And her
sister Michelle is still carrying that on. Like after Patty
(09:30):
died in two thousand and six, Michelle kind of took
over Patty's um role of just trying to figure figure
out what happened, trying to keep the story in the
case in the press um. And actually, while she was alive,
Patty and her husband John managed to get deputized by
the Valencia County Sheriffs, so they were they were actually
(09:54):
um allowed to carry guns. They were allowed to call
contact other law enforcement agencies on behalf of the Ancia
County Sheriff's Department UM to to investigate the case. UM.
That's the kind of like the level of dedication that
that they went to, UM, which is pretty pretty cool.
That that's you know how they channeled that, Yeah, the
the sweet late eighties when you needed to be deputized
(10:16):
to carry a gun, right exactly. Because when I read that,
I was like, it really took that back then. Yeah,
you think so New Mexico, man, they have it locked
down out there. So as far as clues go, they're
pretty scant. That's one of the most frustrating things about
this case. Uh. There are reports that they did find
(10:37):
a Boston cassette tape a few miles from where she
lived on that highway, and then a piece of a
walkman at a campground nineteen miles away. Uh. That seems
like a bit of a stretch to me. It was
a long way from Highway forty seven, but you never know. UM,
But there wasn't any like they didn't prove necessarily that
(10:58):
that was her tape or part of her walkman or
anything like that. No, they didn't, UM. But the I
saw in a couple of places, this is one of
those examples of the facts getting convoluted. I saw that
the Boston tape was found with the front of her
walkman at the same location. Um. And then also I
saw that it was found elsewhere. So who knows. UM,
(11:21):
But that is like one of like even that one
tangible fact is still questionable, and you can't even necessarily
link it directly to her, like you were saying, um,
and that was it, But that that's all that was found.
They didn't find either of her rings, they didn't find
her shoes, they never found her bike. They never found
anything except for those bike tire marks, um, which seemed
(11:42):
to be like a bike being dragged rather than ridden. Uh.
And then that Boston tape and maybe or not a
piece of the walkman. And again who knows if that
was her stuff or not. And they searched like like,
they searched the area pretty pretty thoroughly from what I understand. Yeah,
I mean, anytime there's a missing persons like this, you
you have the big line of people marching through the woods.
(12:04):
It's one of the saddest things that you can see
in a movie or TV show, And I can't I've
never seen one in real life, never want to see
one in real life. But it's uh, it's one of
the saddest things you can witnesses people literally combing a
field or the forest for for the body of somebody,
for sure. So this, uh, well, should we take a break. Yeah,
I think it's break time. All right, let's take a
(12:25):
break here, and we'll talk a little bit about some
of the things that happened after the disappearance. Right after this,
(12:56):
all right, So we mentioned, um, this truck, this pickup truck.
That's vehicle number one in this case that you need
to sort of take note of. Vehicle number two is
a white van with no windows, which those are always
a little bit scary. This was in nine nine June
fift so less than a year after her disappearance in
(13:18):
Port St. Joe, Florida. And wait a minute, chuck, how
would a white van in Port St. Joe, Florida a
year later have anything to do with the disappearance of
Tara Calico a year earlier in New Mexico. Well, it
may or may not. Um, but there was a little
piece of evidence potentially that was left behind. Uh. This
(13:39):
woman comes out of the convenient store, the van drives away,
and then she looks down and notices a polaroid on
the ground, UM that looked like it was inside of
a white van. I think they later determined it was
in fact from inside a van and on the inside
of the van. It was taken sort of from outside
looking in through the side door. Prole were a couple
(14:01):
of kids on some blankets and pillows. Uh, young boy
around ten and a young woman UM that looked like
she was probably a mid to late teenager, and they
were looked to be bound. Their hands were behind their back,
although you couldn't see rope necessarily, but I don't see
why you would assume anything else. They had duct tape
(14:21):
over their mouth. Uh, and they were kind of well tanned.
And it's pretty pretty disturbing, messed up picture. It's an
extremely disturbing picture. Um. It's it's it's alarming, actually, Like
when you see this and it sinks in what you're
looking at, it's a deeply alarming picture, especially when you
(14:42):
realize that like this is real, This was really found
in a junior food store parking lot in in Port St. Joe, Florida.
Like some poor lady like came across this picture and
was I'm sure just terrified. And the pictures is significant
enough that the moment they found it in like was
it was reported to authorities. They started setting up roadblocks
(15:03):
around the county Gulf County, Florida to try to find
this white van that the the woman who found the
picture had had seen parked in that parking spot when
she came when she went in and it was gone
when she came out and found the picture. Um, so
like it was. It's a very alarming picture and a
lot of people, um said, I think that's Tara Calico.
(15:26):
And the reason that Tara Calico found her family found
out about it is because a family friend had seen
it on a current affair, Like this photo was so
alarming and so sinister, um and also so inexplicable to
it was not immediately traced to anybody. It was not
you know, and came out immediately he was like, oh no, no,
that was a hoax. We were just kidding that kind
of thing. Um that it ended up on TV and
(15:50):
very quickly I guess Tara Calico's mom had seen the
Current Affair episode and said, that's that's Tara. And so
for from that moment on in until today, Uh, it's
that photos forever been linked to the Tara Calico case,
whether that's Tar or not. Yeah. And there were a
(16:11):
couple of other points about this picture. UM. Clearly visible
next to the young woman was the VC Andrews book
My Sweet Audrina. Um. You know. VC Andrews wrote Flowers
in the Attic and those kind of disturbing horror slash
I guess, I mean, I don't know if they were horror,
but uh there most of those books were about bad
(16:32):
things that happened to kids. Yeah, yeah, for sure, and
those the horrors is apt horror books. And the other
thing is that the young boy in the picture. Uh,
family immediately kind of came forward and said, hey, we
think that that is our son, Michael Henley. Um, he
disappeared on a camping trip in New Mexico and as well,
(16:56):
and I am just as the mom talking said, basically,
I'm just sure that's Um. That was later kind of
found out to not be true because about a year
after that they found his body, um death to exposure.
So it became pretty clear that he got lost in
the woods and died out there. Yeah, because his body
was found not very far from the camping site that
(17:18):
he disappeared from. So the chances that he had been
abducted from that camping site, UM, kept in a van,
taken to Port St. Joe, Florida, and then taken back
to New Mexico, or even just abducted and kept in
New Mexico, the chances are pretty slim. The chances are
far higher that he wandered off and died of exposure.
(17:39):
And that's what the coroner finally came up with. Two
ruled as as Michael Henley's death. But the fact that
Michael Henley disappeared in New Mexico, and that Tara Calico
disappeared in New Mexico, and that the two people, the
young woman and the boy in this picture resembled those
two just his. Like I said, it's inextricably linked that
photo to this um this case. Uh. And Tara's mom
(18:03):
apparently said forever that that she was sure that that
was her daughter. Um, she's there's a discoloration on um
the girl in the photo's leg. Uh that Tara's mom,
um said, matched her daughter's scar from a car accident
that she'd gotten in. Um, and I believe her sisters
(18:23):
said also, she said, Uh, if you had to ask me,
if I had to say yes or no, if that's
Tara in the photo, I would say yes. But I
also realized that you know this that that makes zero sense.
That doesn't it just doesn't make sense for this case. Um,
But that photo, Chuck, I feel like, you know, a
lot of people link that photo to this case, but
(18:45):
that photos not even you know, guaranteed to be real.
There's a lot of points that people have raised over
the years that say, I don't know if this is
actually a photo of what what it seems to be depicting. Yeah,
I'm not sure I agree with any of the points either,
to be honest. Well, one of the big ones is
that it's never been matched to any missing person ever, right, Um,
(19:08):
there's no one's ever come forward, on the one hand
and said this is just a hoax, we were just kidding. Um,
you can call off your search. But on this, on
the other hand, no one's ever said this is this
is that boy and this is that girl that's missing.
So it seems unlikely that a family would be unaware
of that picture. A family that had taken that picture
(19:31):
as a hoax would be unaware of it and not
come forward. But it's doubly unlikely that two different families
with two different kids that have been abducted would not
be familiar with that picture, would be like, that's our
son or that's our daughter. That's a big one to me.
But there was another one where someone said that her
legs appeared to be shaved, and I think some people
(19:52):
might surmise that that would be unusual for an abduction victim.
I don't buy that, but that's what some people think of. Okay. Uh.
There's also if you look closely, um, the the the
people in the photos shoulders aren't distressed right there, not
in like just a stress position. They're actually kind of relaxed.
(20:14):
And if the if they were bound, um, because remember
the bindings aren't aren't visible in the photo. If they
were bound, their shoulders will be pinned back a lot
further than they are um in that photo, So it
suggests that they might not actually be bound, right. That's possible,
I guess. And then the last one that I saw
was the tape that it should be much redder around
(20:36):
the tape on their faces, um than it is if
they've been wearing that tape for any significant amount of time. Yeah,
I don't get that one. Um. I don't know why
that it's assumed that they had to be wearing the
tape for a significant amount of time because they were
wearing it in the picture. Well, I don't know that
it's saying like like, well, that proves that they weren't
(20:57):
actually abducted or being held hostage. I think what they're
saying is that suggests that it had just recently been
put on, Yeah, which I believe if someone was gonna
open the door to the van to take a picture
of two bound children that they had snatched, they would
probably put tape over their mouth before they opened the door,
would be my guess. The thing to me, the one
point of all that that that just strongly suggests to
(21:20):
me that that picture is not actually real, is that
it is never since being discovered in since being broadcast
on a current affair OPRAH, America's most wanted being all
over the internet, that no one has managed to link
it to either the boy or the young woman in
that picture. Uh, to a missing person that no one,
(21:43):
no one besides the Tara Calico's family, besides their family,
has come forward and been like, no, no, no, that's
our daughter. UM, that that to me says that I
I don't know. I don't I think it's I think
it might be a hoax. I guess I hate that
word these days, but I think that's what it is. Yeah,
And we also didn't point out that the Tara's mom
(22:04):
said that, Um, that book in the picture was her
favorite book. UM, so you know who knows it was
definitely an interesting piece of evidence if that was her
favorite book. Do you think that that was Tara Calico
in the picture or do you think you just think
that the picture was real, that wasn't necessarily her. I
didn't study it, and I don't want to go on
(22:26):
record for having an opinion on whether or not that
was her. Okay, fair enough. UM. One thing we do
know though, is that you know this this picture, like
we said, it's it's alarming enough that that, um, the
FBI got involved as broadcast on national television and poll right.
It was a poll right, one of those um, the
ones that you wave in the air. Uh to develop
(22:46):
in just a few minutes. It was that kind of polaroid.
I'm polaroid. Analyzed it and said this this film that
this was taken on his film stock was n't available
until May of nine nine, so that that couldn't that
picture couldn't have been taken before May of nine, eight nine. Um.
So that's the picture and it's not necessarily connected to
(23:06):
the Tara Calico case, although as far as the world
is concerned, especially the world of online sleuths, it is
in some way or another always going to be connected
to the Tara Calico case from now on. Yeah. And
there were some other pictures over the years that have
come out that um are also not connected, yet somehow
connected because of the Internet. And there was there was
(23:28):
one that was a couple of people joking around on
a train. It looks like a young woman and a
guy a little bit older. Um. And to me, it
just looks like two people gooping around on a train.
I'm not sure why so sinister. Uh. The other one
is another young woman with tape over her mouth. And
there's a similary similarity to the stripe pillow as that polaroid.
(23:51):
And it was found in California at a construction site.
But you can't, um, you can't really identify much about
her all. And I think the only reason it's connected
is because, hey, it's another picture of a young woman
with tape on her mouth. Yeah, it looks vaguely like her.
And that's That's not like if you go on to
Reddit or web Salutes or any of these online forums
(24:13):
about this case, there's at least several other photos that
have been associated over time that seemed to just be like,
here's an amateur B D s M photo that somebody
took and I found somewhere, and I think that's Tara
Calico and this is evidence rather than this is just
somebody's picture from you know, a wild Saturday night or
(24:34):
something like that. For the Internet definitely has that effect
for sure. So chuck before, UM, I guess that's a
pretty good place to put an ad brake on. Then
maybe we'll come back and talk about conspiracies. Yeah, let's
do it. Okay, we'll be right back everybody. So there
(25:16):
are a couple of conspiracies that have emerged over the
years since then, many many years later, in two thousand eight,
h the Sheriff of Valencia County at the time Renee
Rivera said that he had some information about what happened
and he was just waiting to release this information. He
wanted to build an airtight case, get all the evidence in,
(25:38):
perhaps even locate her body. And uh here here was
the quote. The information I have is at the truck
accidentally ended up hitting her. I believe the truck bumped
her bike, at which time she fell to the side
of the road. From there, the individuals took her. And
remember the truck that he's referencing, is that truck that
was supposedly following her when she was last seen at
(26:00):
five am. That's right, And that she was killed later
on maybe because she threatened to call the cops or something,
and that there could be a couple of extra people
involved in this case, right, so he said, But I'm
not going to be arresting anybody because we don't have
a body yet, and I want to have a body. Um,
(26:22):
so I'm just gonna sit here and hold press conferences instead.
And um John Dole, Tara's stepfather, came out publicly and
it's like that was the dumbest thing I've heard in
a very long time. Like, okay, if you if you
want like an air tight case. And you need to
find Tara's body to do that, fine, but you don't
publicize everything else, you know, because to John Dole, that
(26:45):
was it seemed like a bit of a warning, um,
to the to the suspects that were out there at
the very least, it just seemed foolish to him, or
a waste of time. Um. And the thing is is
that Sheriff Rivera, who I believe is still the Valencia
County ere um, hasn't made any arrests since that press conference. Uh.
And admittedly Tar's body has not been found, but that
(27:08):
just does seem like a weird thing to do. So
that was kind of like one of the first things
that that kind of reinvigorated this case that had managed
to be kept alive over the nineties, um, but really
started to kind of come back in the two thousands
and and UM. You know, multiple lights have been shown
on it. But even beyond like you know, somebody doing
(27:31):
a story on it or a follow up or an
interview with her sister brother or something. Um, the police
investigations into he kind of like peaks um or increased
interests in the two thousand's as well. Yeah, so now
a character enters name Melinda Eskibell, and she is a
(27:51):
blogger and a podcaster and I guess one of these
salus and had done a lot of work on this case.
And apparently at one point, and this was about two
thousand ten, was at least that she was working on
a documentary film about Tara and that she had information
on the body and that she was being followed and
the threats were being made. So in two thousand and ten,
(28:14):
UM state Police officer in New Mexico author or ties
he was brought in for a meeting about this case,
mainly because of what was going on with Escabell and
her research and what she said. Yeah, she said she
was getting death threats, right, yes, So that that actually
kind of um reinvigorated this case. Uh well it almost did,
(28:39):
or tease started to kind of look into it a
little more, but was eventually told like, hey, that's the
Valencia County Sheriff's case and just leave it to them.
So we're going to reassign you. And that was that. Apparently, um,
the death threats or um, I guess that was death
threats that Melinda Escobell said she was getting were enough
(28:59):
to make her of to l a UM and then
later on she came back and started uh investigating the
case again with Michelle Dole, Tara's step sister, and they
released a podcast called Vanished the Tear the Tar Calico
Story UM about this investigation. Um, that was I believe
revealed some new some new facts and definitely pieced a
(29:21):
lot of stuff together. Yeah. So back in two thousand
and ten, when Ortiz got this information, he met with
Sheriff Rivera, and Rivera, for his part, said, you know what, Um,
there was a thorough investigation. Uh, we identified three possible suspects,
one of them is dead now, and I also got
(29:44):
some information about where this body might be. And basically, uh,
there's who was Captain dong Dongas. So that it sounds
fun and I guess worked alongside Rivera. Is that what
it was? It was kind of hard to tell that
was what I got as well. I mean it's a
quote from Mortiz and he's just kind of presuming everybody
(30:05):
who's reading this quote understands who Captain Dongas is. Maybe
it's Sheriff Rivera's imaginary friend or something. Captain. It does
sound like that. It does neither be one joke in here. Uh.
So Dongas advised advised him that there was a you know,
a dig basically at this location where they thought the
body was and that they didn't find anything, but they did, uh,
(30:27):
they did dig for the body at this place. Right.
And then, like I said, Otis basically gets moved off
of the case because he's state police and this is
Valencia Counties turf. Um. So, so that was that was
kind of like a UM. That was two thousand and ten,
and that was some some new fresh blood investigation injected
(30:48):
into the case. Um. And then in two thousand and thirteen, uh,
the state police interviewed a guy named Frank Methola who
was a former deputy with the Valencia County Sheriff's Department. Um,
he's not any longer. He apparently was kind of drummed
out of the sheriff's office. Um, possibly for stuff that
was unrelated to that I saw. He was arrested while
(31:10):
he was still a sheriff's deputy because he had failed
to appear in court for causing a crash in a
neighborhood during like a high speed chase. Yeah, so it's
possible that something like that led to his dismissal. But regardless,
he came forward after he was no longer a deputy
and said, um, hey, while I was a deputy, I
(31:32):
interviewed this guy named Henry Brown, and Henry Brown was
said he was dying and he needed to get something
off of his chest. And um, he he gave an
official statement. And this statement, from what I understand, definitely
exists and has been verified. This isn't just like hearsay,
but that um Henry Brown said, I was friends with
(31:54):
this guy. Um. And his name was Lawrence Romero Jr.
And laur Tramaro Junior was not a he was a
bit of a He was not he was not a
good guy necessarily from what I understand. Um, but he
was the sheriff's son, Lawrence Ramiro Junior at the time
(32:14):
that um that all this happened, that Tara Calico went missing. Uh,
he was the sheriff of Valencia County. And UM, Henry
Brown said, I was friends with Junior and one day
I was hanging out at Junior's house and the subject
of Tara Calico came up, and before I knew it, Uh,
Laurence Ramiro Junior and another guy were admitting that they
(32:37):
had killed her, and that her body had been right
there where we were sitting not too long before, um,
which they had moved her body after they started searching
for and then they took her and moved her to
a pond later on, and that's where she remains. But
that he definitely killed her and the reason why nothing
(32:59):
ever came of it because he was the sheriff's son
and that apparently was given. UM, that's that statement was
given and written down and taken into into the record
by the Valencia County Sheriff's department. Yeah, and apparently some
of these guys were involved with dealing drugs, and UM,
that may have had something to do with it. There
(33:20):
was also a report in that statement that it was
sort of a conspiracy in that Um that Deputy Rivera
had their backs was the direct quote. UM. So you know,
maybe because the sun was in deep trouble, the deputy
got involved and made sure that that sort of stayed buried. UM.
But again this is you know, I think to call
(33:42):
this hearsay is pretty pretty accurate, but it's also a
pretty juicy deathbed story, which you know, these always play
well in these kind of cases, for sure. I also
saw that there was another guy who who gave a
third hand confession or second hand confession like that said
that UM Laurence Romero Junior confessed to him as well.
(34:03):
And Lawrence Romero Junior died in from a self inflicted
gunshot wound. And it's not clear whether Um he died
by suicide or other people say that he was playing
Russian Roulette very foolishly and it did not go so well.
But either way, he died in UM within a couple
of years of Tara Colico's disappearance. UM so at the time, again,
(34:27):
his father was Sheriff of Valencia County, and this deputy Rivera,
who supposedly had the um the Romero's backs, became sheriff
later and is now still Sheriff of Valencia County. From
what we understand, UM and what's weird though, is a
lot of that statement jibes with Rivera's weirdo press conference
(34:50):
that he held in two thousand and eight, that that
these these kids had you know, she was being followed
into trunk, she was bumped by a truck, she was
bumped by from behind, she was killed, that the people's
family helped them cover up the crime. Um, he just
stopped short of saying who it was, and that was
it's just very odd if he was the one that
(35:11):
was helping cover things up. To have that press conference
is a is a very odd thing to do if
you're in on it, you know. Yeah. And the one
thing we didn't mention earlier that's pretty important too. If
if you think back to that polaroid, Uh, if you're
asking yourself, like, surely they analyzed this thing for real
and it's not just up to Internet people to to
(35:32):
compare photos. Uh. There were a few different organizations that
looked into it, and they very frustratingly. One said yes,
we think that's our one said no, that's not, and
one said, well, we can't be sure. So that just
leads to the frustration. To literally have three groups looking
into this and each of them have a different take
(35:52):
on it kind of leads you back to nowhere for sure.
And if it's frustrating for us or for the web
sleuths or whoever's listening, Um, think of what it's like
for the family, you know, to hear you you you
just rather hear everybody say yes or everybody say no
to have it just inconclusive like that or contradictories just
gotta make it so much harder. But ultimately, when you
(36:14):
put all the pieces on the table, which one makes
more sense That she was killed locally and it was
covered up by some local families who had the ability
to cover it up, or that she was abducted and
ended up somehow in a polaroid in Port St. Joe,
Florida a year later. Um, And I think that's what
her sister was saying, where where she was saying. And
(36:35):
if I look at this photograph, I know that it's Tara.
But I also realized that that explanation makes the least
sense of all of the explanations that are out there,
so that the case is still ongoing. In two thousand nineteen,
the FBI, apparently out of nowhere, released a dollar reward
for information on the Tara Calico case. No one apparently
(36:57):
has any idea what prompted them to do that or
why they did it. Um, but it's out there. So
if you know anything about Tara Calico's disappearance, uh, and
you want to make a cool twenty grand, get in
touch with the FBI, or don't even do it for
the money, do it for the humanity. How about that? Yeah? Uh,
and that's it? Huh? You got anything else? I got
(37:17):
nothing else? Well? Then, uh, I guess that's it for
the Tara Calico case, hopefully for now. And since I
said that, it's time for a listener, Mayo, I'm gonna
call this math math math. Oh. I was hoping you're
gonna either ignore this or you hadn't seen it at all. Well,
(37:38):
I don't even know if. I mean, if this person
is right, this could be one of those great ones
wherein someone corrects the correction. That would be great somebody. Hey,
guys listening to one podcast and responding to Chuck's anticipation
for correction of Josh's math. Um, Josh, your competence and
certainty in your math or charming and inspiring. And I
appreciate it when people say something with conviction. Um. Now
(38:01):
onto the sour part. Josh, you almost had the math right,
but for some reason, you stated that the last seven
digits range from technically one million to nine million. N
this were true, then you would be correct in your calculations.
But according to what I can find, that does not
seem to be the case. The SEC website untold free
(38:22):
number spells out prefixes which are available, but it does
not provide a restricted range available for the last seven digits.
If you enter zero zero zero zero zero zero zero
as the last seven digits to check that if a
number is available, there is no information about that being
an invalid option. M I'm not quite sure. I follow.
(38:46):
For example, I checked one, eight, three three all zeros,
and it said there that it was available. So then
that brings us the range from all zeros to all nines,
which provides us with ten million, not nine million. Uh sorry, Josh.
So when you multiply that by seven prefixes, you get
seventy million combos seven times nine million, and sixty three million,
(39:07):
not fifty four million. The only reason that I'm sending
this emails not to draw attention to a well, actually
you did the math rong liar, but rather because Chuck
drew attention to it, So blame him, Josh, Okay, all right,
I'll go with that. Can I blame you both? Sure?
I think that's most appropriate. And that's from Noah in Philadelphia.
(39:29):
We saw you guys at the Bell House. My sister
and I saw you for her birthday. Please give a
shout out to Becca if this ends up on the show.
So Hello Becca, Happy very belated birthday, Becca. Well she's
had another one since then. Happy birthdays. I guess we
do the Bellhouse in October, so it's coming up, yeah
(39:50):
in who knows. Um. Well, thanks a lot, Noah, and
thanks to you and Becca for coming to see us live.
Eventually we will be out there live again. Yes, it
will be nice, so keep an ear out. I don't
know when, but we will eventually. And in the meantime,
if you want to get in touch with us, you
(40:11):
can do it by email. Send it off to Stuff
podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know
is a production of iHeart Radios. How stuff works for
more podcasts for my heart radio because at the iHeart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows. H
Hey, everybody. I don't know if you've heard, but we
have a book coming out finally, finally, after all these years.
It's great, it's fun. You're gonna love it. It's called
Stuff You Should Know Colon, an incomplete compendium of mostly
interesting things, and it's twenty six jam packed chapters that
we wrote with another guy named Knows Parker, who's amazing
(00:23):
and is illustrated amazingly by our illustrator, Carl Manardo. And
it's just an all around joy to pick up and read.
Even though we haven't physically held in our hands yet,
it's like we have Chuck in our dreams so far.
I can't wait to actually see and hold this thing
and smell it, and so should you, so pre order now.
It means a lot to us. The support is a
(00:44):
very big deal, so pre order anywhere books are sold.
Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of My
Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the
podcast asked. I'm Josh Clark, there's Charles W. Scoop Bryant. Uh,
(01:05):
and this is Stuff You Should Know, one of our
infrequent true crime editions. So if you don't like true crime,
probably shouldn't listen to this one because it's about true
crime that goes along with and big time trigger warnings
on this one. If you have family members who have
been sexually assaulted or kidnapped, or if you have children
(01:29):
that you care about at all and they're even safe
in your home, this might be pretty upsetting for you
as it was as it was for me. Yeah, it
is a it's a very sad case just in of itself.
I mean, we're talking about the disappearance of a girl,
UM who was nineteen at the time. Her name was
Tara Calico, and she disappeared in New Mexico from the
area where she lived. UM. And just that just the
(01:53):
fact that she's she's never been found, like she basically
vanished almost without a trace. Um, that's sad enough. And
then the more you dig into the story, it's very sad,
but it also has some like does extra couple of
layers that your average like a true crime missing person,
probably murdered person's story goes that make this case like
(02:15):
one of the most fascinating recent true crime cases that
that I can think of. Yeah, yeah, I know you
didn't like this one at all. No, it was pretty upsetting,
So you feel like you can make it through this one,
I think, so it should be a laugh riot, right
(02:38):
as usual. Um so, Chuckles's just kind of give some
background on this case for everybody who's not familiar. Okay, Yeah,
here's the deal, and you know, ed help help us
put this together. And he takes great pains to point
out quite a few times that we don't know exactly
all the facts, but we know what we know from
(02:59):
accounts um to uh Tara's mom and a little bit
from some other family members and a little bit from
the case files, although I don't think all of those
are available still, but I don't know. I saw otherwise,
Like that's that's the problem with true crime, is like,
especially in the age of the Internet, stuff just gets
piled on with different weird facts that may or may
(03:21):
not be true, and you know, down to the down
to like are the case files still intact that kind
of thing. But yeah, so, so I think you're larger
points where we don't exactly know all of the details, right, Yeah,
what we do know is that in September twenty she
went for a bike ride. She was athletic and took
these very long bike rides anywhere from fifteen to thirty
(03:44):
something miles on a regular basis. She was in nineteen
years old, smart, smart young woman and a student at
University of New Mexico and was living in a place
called I guess Bellin, New Mexico b E L E N.
I think it's bell En bell In. I think so. Yeah,
(04:05):
I think I heard somebody say it like that, Okay,
And she left at nine for this bike ride and
was last seen at eleven forty five on Highway forty seven,
which is kind of the standard route that she usually took. Apparently. Yeah.
Um And there are just a couple other details about
(04:25):
taro Um. She was, like you said, she was an
intelligent person. Um. I believe she was a sophomore at
uh at In College and she was studying psychology or
psychiatry whyn't to. I don't think she decided yet, but
she was in the field of psychology. And she was
a bank teller too. And when she headed out that day,
um is very widely reported that she had told her mom, uh,
(04:48):
if I'm not back by noon, come looking for me. Um.
I saw that mostly reported that she had said it
kind of playfully, jokingly in jest, that kind of thing,
not that she had set out that day going knowing
that she was going to meet her her grim fate, um,
but that she had a walkman with her two and
that she was playing Boston. And I can only assume,
(05:11):
because she was out for a bike ry, that she
was listening to Boston's self titled debut album, which has
Don't Look Back in it, which would be excellent for
riding your bike too. Maybe so, or it could have
been the new one. It could have been. There's several
that they released afterwards, but Boston. She was listening to Boston,
just remember that, that's right. And she was on her
(05:33):
mom's bike, her Huffey bike, and she had a white
T shirt first National Bank of bell Ann and white shorts,
green stripes, white socks, tennis shoes, a butterfly ring with
a diamond insert amethyst stone ring and then ear rings
half inch half inch loop earrings. And she was last
(05:55):
seen chuck from what I from what I understand, on
her way back from her bike ride along Highway forty seven,
UM about I think like am or something like that. Um.
And then that was that was it, Like she was
just riding along listening to her headphones last time she
was seeing. The only other detail that UM adds like
(06:17):
a very cryptic twist to that last sighting, was that
she was reported um being followed. It looked like by
an old timey truck, like one from like the fifties,
I think a Ford truck. UM, like some weird color,
like a dirty gray or something like that. Yeah, and
the cops and there there will be a few different
(06:38):
people working on this case, as is usually the case
when it's missing persons, different agencies get involved. But in
this case, Valenca County Sheriff Romero, his name is Laurence Romero.
He said that they found some bicycle tracks about four
miles south of where she lived, and it looked like
to them that they the bicycle had been dragged off
(06:58):
the side of the road and then back and they
immediately thought that was pretty suspicious. And then when you
put it together with the details of this pickup truck,
then it was all of a sudden a pretty serious
case to them, right, Yeah, I mean, because you know,
if if you can't find a girl, she doesn't show
(07:19):
up home. Um when she says she's going to and
she makes that joking cryptic thing, of course, it's going
to terrify her mom, and it did terrify her mom.
Her mom's name was Patty dole Um and Patty was
married to John dole and Um. Through John, Tara had
two step siblings, Chris, her brother, and her sister step sister,
(07:42):
Michelle Um. And just immediately, Patty was very, very worried
when Tara didn't show up at home, and then once
the once the evidence started coming and she got increasingly worried.
And probably the most tragic figure in this entire story
um is Patty because from the moment like she started
(08:03):
to get worried till the day she died in two
thousand six, Um, she was worried. She was overwrought by this,
like it just took her over and consumed her Um.
But one of the things to her credit for sure,
as we'll see, is that she didn't just like collapse
and buckle and and give in, which she would have.
It would have been very understandable had she done that.
(08:24):
She instead channeled a lot of that fright and worry
and concern into action and spent like the most of
the rest of her life working tirelessly trying to figure
out what happened to her daughter, find some evidence, bring
her home. I don't think she ever gave up the um,
the idea that that Tara might still be out there
(08:45):
UM or at the very least bring bring her killers
to justice. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna go with Tara
for the most tragic figure in this story. But it
was very sad what happened with her mom. She died
in two thousand six, um never getting any answers. Her
biological father died in two thousand two. Her stepfather, you know,
(09:07):
like anyone, still holds out hope, although he you know,
he readily admits this is from and the chances are
are almost zero that anything is ever gonna come to
fruition about this, but he did have She did have
family that was looking out for her, you know, basically
the rest of their lives. Yeah, for sure. And her
sister Michelle is still carrying that on. Like after Patty
(09:30):
died in two thousand and six, Michelle kind of took
over Patty's um role of just trying to figure figure
out what happened, trying to keep the story in the
case in the press um. And actually, while she was alive,
Patty and her husband John managed to get deputized by
the Valencia County Sheriffs, so they were they were actually
(09:54):
um allowed to carry guns. They were allowed to call
contact other law enforcement agencies on behalf of the Ancia
County Sheriff's Department UM to to investigate the case. UM.
That's the kind of like the level of dedication that
that they went to, UM, which is pretty pretty cool.
That that's you know how they channeled that, Yeah, the
the sweet late eighties when you needed to be deputized
(10:16):
to carry a gun, right exactly. Because when I read that,
I was like, it really took that back then. Yeah,
you think so New Mexico, man, they have it locked
down out there. So as far as clues go, they're
pretty scant. That's one of the most frustrating things about
this case. Uh. There are reports that they did find
(10:37):
a Boston cassette tape a few miles from where she
lived on that highway, and then a piece of a
walkman at a campground nineteen miles away. Uh. That seems
like a bit of a stretch to me. It was
a long way from Highway forty seven, but you never know. UM,
But there wasn't any like they didn't prove necessarily that
(10:58):
that was her tape or part of her walkman or
anything like that. No, they didn't, UM. But the I
saw in a couple of places, this is one of
those examples of the facts getting convoluted. I saw that
the Boston tape was found with the front of her
walkman at the same location. Um. And then also I
saw that it was found elsewhere. So who knows. UM,
(11:21):
But that is like one of like even that one
tangible fact is still questionable, and you can't even necessarily
link it directly to her, like you were saying, um,
and that was it, But that that's all that was found.
They didn't find either of her rings, they didn't find
her shoes, they never found her bike. They never found
anything except for those bike tire marks, um, which seemed
(11:42):
to be like a bike being dragged rather than ridden. Uh.
And then that Boston tape and maybe or not a
piece of the walkman. And again who knows if that
was her stuff or not. And they searched like like,
they searched the area pretty pretty thoroughly from what I understand. Yeah,
I mean, anytime there's a missing persons like this, you
you have the big line of people marching through the woods.
(12:04):
It's one of the saddest things that you can see
in a movie or TV show, And I can't I've
never seen one in real life, never want to see
one in real life. But it's uh, it's one of
the saddest things you can witnesses people literally combing a
field or the forest for for the body of somebody,
for sure. So this, uh, well, should we take a break. Yeah,
I think it's break time. All right, let's take a
(12:25):
break here, and we'll talk a little bit about some
of the things that happened after the disappearance. Right after this,
(12:56):
all right, So we mentioned, um, this truck, this pickup truck.
That's vehicle number one in this case that you need
to sort of take note of. Vehicle number two is
a white van with no windows, which those are always
a little bit scary. This was in nine nine June
fift so less than a year after her disappearance in
(13:18):
Port St. Joe, Florida. And wait a minute, chuck, how
would a white van in Port St. Joe, Florida a
year later have anything to do with the disappearance of
Tara Calico a year earlier in New Mexico. Well, it
may or may not. Um, but there was a little
piece of evidence potentially that was left behind. Uh. This
(13:39):
woman comes out of the convenient store, the van drives away,
and then she looks down and notices a polaroid on
the ground, UM that looked like it was inside of
a white van. I think they later determined it was
in fact from inside a van and on the inside
of the van. It was taken sort of from outside
looking in through the side door. Prole were a couple
(14:01):
of kids on some blankets and pillows. Uh, young boy
around ten and a young woman UM that looked like
she was probably a mid to late teenager, and they
were looked to be bound. Their hands were behind their back,
although you couldn't see rope necessarily, but I don't see
why you would assume anything else. They had duct tape
(14:21):
over their mouth. Uh, and they were kind of well tanned.
And it's pretty pretty disturbing, messed up picture. It's an
extremely disturbing picture. Um. It's it's it's alarming, actually, Like
when you see this and it sinks in what you're
looking at, it's a deeply alarming picture, especially when you
(14:42):
realize that like this is real, This was really found
in a junior food store parking lot in in Port St. Joe, Florida.
Like some poor lady like came across this picture and
was I'm sure just terrified. And the pictures is significant
enough that the moment they found it in like was
it was reported to authorities. They started setting up roadblocks
(15:03):
around the county Gulf County, Florida to try to find
this white van that the the woman who found the
picture had had seen parked in that parking spot when
she came when she went in and it was gone
when she came out and found the picture. Um, so
like it was. It's a very alarming picture and a
lot of people, um said, I think that's Tara Calico.
(15:26):
And the reason that Tara Calico found her family found
out about it is because a family friend had seen
it on a current affair, Like this photo was so
alarming and so sinister, um and also so inexplicable to
it was not immediately traced to anybody. It was not
you know, and came out immediately he was like, oh no, no,
that was a hoax. We were just kidding that kind
of thing. Um that it ended up on TV and
(15:50):
very quickly I guess Tara Calico's mom had seen the
Current Affair episode and said, that's that's Tara. And so
for from that moment on in until today, Uh, it's
that photos forever been linked to the Tara Calico case,
whether that's Tar or not. Yeah. And there were a
(16:11):
couple of other points about this picture. UM. Clearly visible
next to the young woman was the VC Andrews book
My Sweet Audrina. Um. You know. VC Andrews wrote Flowers
in the Attic and those kind of disturbing horror slash
I guess, I mean, I don't know if they were horror,
but uh there most of those books were about bad
(16:32):
things that happened to kids. Yeah, yeah, for sure, and
those the horrors is apt horror books. And the other
thing is that the young boy in the picture. Uh,
family immediately kind of came forward and said, hey, we
think that that is our son, Michael Henley. Um, he
disappeared on a camping trip in New Mexico and as well,
(16:56):
and I am just as the mom talking said, basically,
I'm just sure that's Um. That was later kind of
found out to not be true because about a year
after that they found his body, um death to exposure.
So it became pretty clear that he got lost in
the woods and died out there. Yeah, because his body
was found not very far from the camping site that
(17:18):
he disappeared from. So the chances that he had been
abducted from that camping site, UM, kept in a van,
taken to Port St. Joe, Florida, and then taken back
to New Mexico, or even just abducted and kept in
New Mexico, the chances are pretty slim. The chances are
far higher that he wandered off and died of exposure.
(17:39):
And that's what the coroner finally came up with. Two
ruled as as Michael Henley's death. But the fact that
Michael Henley disappeared in New Mexico, and that Tara Calico
disappeared in New Mexico, and that the two people, the
young woman and the boy in this picture resembled those
two just his. Like I said, it's inextricably linked that
photo to this um this case. Uh. And Tara's mom
(18:03):
apparently said forever that that she was sure that that
was her daughter. Um, she's there's a discoloration on um
the girl in the photo's leg. Uh that Tara's mom,
um said, matched her daughter's scar from a car accident
that she'd gotten in. Um, and I believe her sisters
(18:23):
said also, she said, Uh, if you had to ask me,
if I had to say yes or no, if that's
Tara in the photo, I would say yes. But I
also realized that you know this that that makes zero sense.
That doesn't it just doesn't make sense for this case. Um,
But that photo, Chuck, I feel like, you know, a
lot of people link that photo to this case, but
(18:45):
that photos not even you know, guaranteed to be real.
There's a lot of points that people have raised over
the years that say, I don't know if this is
actually a photo of what what it seems to be depicting. Yeah,
I'm not sure I agree with any of the points either,
to be honest. Well, one of the big ones is
that it's never been matched to any missing person ever, right, Um,
(19:08):
there's no one's ever come forward, on the one hand
and said this is just a hoax, we were just kidding. Um,
you can call off your search. But on this, on
the other hand, no one's ever said this is this
is that boy and this is that girl that's missing.
So it seems unlikely that a family would be unaware
of that picture. A family that had taken that picture
(19:31):
as a hoax would be unaware of it and not
come forward. But it's doubly unlikely that two different families
with two different kids that have been abducted would not
be familiar with that picture, would be like, that's our
son or that's our daughter. That's a big one to me.
But there was another one where someone said that her
legs appeared to be shaved, and I think some people
(19:52):
might surmise that that would be unusual for an abduction victim.
I don't buy that, but that's what some people think of. Okay. Uh.
There's also if you look closely, um, the the the
people in the photos shoulders aren't distressed right there, not
in like just a stress position. They're actually kind of relaxed.
(20:14):
And if the if they were bound, um, because remember
the bindings aren't aren't visible in the photo. If they
were bound, their shoulders will be pinned back a lot
further than they are um in that photo, So it
suggests that they might not actually be bound, right. That's possible,
I guess. And then the last one that I saw
was the tape that it should be much redder around
(20:36):
the tape on their faces, um than it is if
they've been wearing that tape for any significant amount of time. Yeah,
I don't get that one. Um. I don't know why
that it's assumed that they had to be wearing the
tape for a significant amount of time because they were
wearing it in the picture. Well, I don't know that
it's saying like like, well, that proves that they weren't
(20:57):
actually abducted or being held hostage. I think what they're
saying is that suggests that it had just recently been
put on, Yeah, which I believe if someone was gonna
open the door to the van to take a picture
of two bound children that they had snatched, they would
probably put tape over their mouth before they opened the door,
would be my guess. The thing to me, the one
point of all that that that just strongly suggests to
(21:20):
me that that picture is not actually real, is that
it is never since being discovered in since being broadcast
on a current affair OPRAH, America's most wanted being all
over the internet, that no one has managed to link
it to either the boy or the young woman in
that picture. Uh, to a missing person that no one,
(21:43):
no one besides the Tara Calico's family, besides their family,
has come forward and been like, no, no, no, that's
our daughter. UM, that that to me says that I
I don't know. I don't I think it's I think
it might be a hoax. I guess I hate that
word these days, but I think that's what it is. Yeah,
And we also didn't point out that the Tara's mom
(22:04):
said that, Um, that book in the picture was her
favorite book. UM, so you know who knows it was
definitely an interesting piece of evidence if that was her
favorite book. Do you think that that was Tara Calico
in the picture or do you think you just think
that the picture was real, that wasn't necessarily her. I
didn't study it, and I don't want to go on
(22:26):
record for having an opinion on whether or not that
was her. Okay, fair enough. UM. One thing we do
know though, is that you know this this picture, like
we said, it's it's alarming enough that that, um, the
FBI got involved as broadcast on national television and poll right.
It was a poll right, one of those um, the
ones that you wave in the air. Uh to develop
(22:46):
in just a few minutes. It was that kind of polaroid.
I'm polaroid. Analyzed it and said this this film that
this was taken on his film stock was n't available
until May of nine nine, so that that couldn't that
picture couldn't have been taken before May of nine, eight nine. Um.
So that's the picture and it's not necessarily connected to
(23:06):
the Tara Calico case, although as far as the world
is concerned, especially the world of online sleuths, it is
in some way or another always going to be connected
to the Tara Calico case from now on. Yeah. And
there were some other pictures over the years that have
come out that um are also not connected, yet somehow
connected because of the Internet. And there was there was
(23:28):
one that was a couple of people joking around on
a train. It looks like a young woman and a
guy a little bit older. Um. And to me, it
just looks like two people gooping around on a train.
I'm not sure why so sinister. Uh. The other one
is another young woman with tape over her mouth. And
there's a similary similarity to the stripe pillow as that polaroid.
(23:51):
And it was found in California at a construction site.
But you can't, um, you can't really identify much about
her all. And I think the only reason it's connected
is because, hey, it's another picture of a young woman
with tape on her mouth. Yeah, it looks vaguely like her.
And that's That's not like if you go on to
Reddit or web Salutes or any of these online forums
(24:13):
about this case, there's at least several other photos that
have been associated over time that seemed to just be like,
here's an amateur B D s M photo that somebody
took and I found somewhere, and I think that's Tara
Calico and this is evidence rather than this is just
somebody's picture from you know, a wild Saturday night or
(24:34):
something like that. For the Internet definitely has that effect
for sure. So chuck before, UM, I guess that's a
pretty good place to put an ad brake on. Then
maybe we'll come back and talk about conspiracies. Yeah, let's
do it. Okay, we'll be right back everybody. So there
(25:16):
are a couple of conspiracies that have emerged over the
years since then, many many years later, in two thousand eight,
h the Sheriff of Valencia County at the time Renee
Rivera said that he had some information about what happened
and he was just waiting to release this information. He
wanted to build an airtight case, get all the evidence in,
(25:38):
perhaps even locate her body. And uh here here was
the quote. The information I have is at the truck
accidentally ended up hitting her. I believe the truck bumped
her bike, at which time she fell to the side
of the road. From there, the individuals took her. And
remember the truck that he's referencing, is that truck that
was supposedly following her when she was last seen at
(26:00):
five am. That's right, And that she was killed later
on maybe because she threatened to call the cops or something,
and that there could be a couple of extra people
involved in this case, right, so he said, But I'm
not going to be arresting anybody because we don't have
a body yet, and I want to have a body. Um,
(26:22):
so I'm just gonna sit here and hold press conferences instead.
And um John Dole, Tara's stepfather, came out publicly and
it's like that was the dumbest thing I've heard in
a very long time. Like, okay, if you if you
want like an air tight case. And you need to
find Tara's body to do that, fine, but you don't
publicize everything else, you know, because to John Dole, that
(26:45):
was it seemed like a bit of a warning, um,
to the to the suspects that were out there at
the very least, it just seemed foolish to him, or
a waste of time. Um. And the thing is is
that Sheriff Rivera, who I believe is still the Valencia
County ere um, hasn't made any arrests since that press conference. Uh.
And admittedly Tar's body has not been found, but that
(27:08):
just does seem like a weird thing to do. So
that was kind of like one of the first things
that that kind of reinvigorated this case that had managed
to be kept alive over the nineties, um, but really
started to kind of come back in the two thousands
and and UM. You know, multiple lights have been shown
on it. But even beyond like you know, somebody doing
(27:31):
a story on it or a follow up or an
interview with her sister brother or something. Um, the police
investigations into he kind of like peaks um or increased
interests in the two thousand's as well. Yeah, so now
a character enters name Melinda Eskibell, and she is a
(27:51):
blogger and a podcaster and I guess one of these
salus and had done a lot of work on this case.
And apparently at one point, and this was about two
thousand ten, was at least that she was working on
a documentary film about Tara and that she had information
on the body and that she was being followed and
the threats were being made. So in two thousand and ten,
(28:14):
UM state Police officer in New Mexico author or ties
he was brought in for a meeting about this case,
mainly because of what was going on with Escabell and
her research and what she said. Yeah, she said she
was getting death threats, right, yes, So that that actually
kind of um reinvigorated this case. Uh well it almost did,
(28:39):
or tease started to kind of look into it a
little more, but was eventually told like, hey, that's the
Valencia County Sheriff's case and just leave it to them.
So we're going to reassign you. And that was that. Apparently, um,
the death threats or um, I guess that was death
threats that Melinda Escobell said she was getting were enough
(28:59):
to make her of to l a UM and then
later on she came back and started uh investigating the
case again with Michelle Dole, Tara's step sister, and they
released a podcast called Vanished the Tear the Tar Calico
Story UM about this investigation. Um, that was I believe
revealed some new some new facts and definitely pieced a
(29:21):
lot of stuff together. Yeah. So back in two thousand
and ten, when Ortiz got this information, he met with
Sheriff Rivera, and Rivera, for his part, said, you know what, Um,
there was a thorough investigation. Uh, we identified three possible suspects,
one of them is dead now, and I also got
(29:44):
some information about where this body might be. And basically, uh,
there's who was Captain dong Dongas. So that it sounds
fun and I guess worked alongside Rivera. Is that what
it was? It was kind of hard to tell that
was what I got as well. I mean it's a
quote from Mortiz and he's just kind of presuming everybody
(30:05):
who's reading this quote understands who Captain Dongas is. Maybe
it's Sheriff Rivera's imaginary friend or something. Captain. It does
sound like that. It does neither be one joke in here. Uh.
So Dongas advised advised him that there was a you know,
a dig basically at this location where they thought the
body was and that they didn't find anything, but they did, uh,
(30:27):
they did dig for the body at this place. Right.
And then, like I said, Otis basically gets moved off
of the case because he's state police and this is
Valencia Counties turf. Um. So, so that was that was
kind of like a UM. That was two thousand and ten,
and that was some some new fresh blood investigation injected
(30:48):
into the case. Um. And then in two thousand and thirteen, uh,
the state police interviewed a guy named Frank Methola who
was a former deputy with the Valencia County Sheriff's Department. Um,
he's not any longer. He apparently was kind of drummed
out of the sheriff's office. Um, possibly for stuff that
was unrelated to that I saw. He was arrested while
(31:10):
he was still a sheriff's deputy because he had failed
to appear in court for causing a crash in a
neighborhood during like a high speed chase. Yeah, so it's
possible that something like that led to his dismissal. But regardless,
he came forward after he was no longer a deputy
and said, um, hey, while I was a deputy, I
(31:32):
interviewed this guy named Henry Brown, and Henry Brown was
said he was dying and he needed to get something
off of his chest. And um, he he gave an
official statement. And this statement, from what I understand, definitely
exists and has been verified. This isn't just like hearsay,
but that um Henry Brown said, I was friends with
(31:54):
this guy. Um. And his name was Lawrence Romero Jr.
And laur Tramaro Junior was not a he was a
bit of a He was not he was not a
good guy necessarily from what I understand. Um, but he
was the sheriff's son, Lawrence Ramiro Junior at the time
(32:14):
that um that all this happened, that Tara Calico went missing. Uh,
he was the sheriff of Valencia County. And UM, Henry
Brown said, I was friends with Junior and one day
I was hanging out at Junior's house and the subject
of Tara Calico came up, and before I knew it, Uh,
Laurence Ramiro Junior and another guy were admitting that they
(32:37):
had killed her, and that her body had been right
there where we were sitting not too long before, um,
which they had moved her body after they started searching
for and then they took her and moved her to
a pond later on, and that's where she remains. But
that he definitely killed her and the reason why nothing
(32:59):
ever came of it because he was the sheriff's son
and that apparently was given. UM, that's that statement was
given and written down and taken into into the record
by the Valencia County Sheriff's department. Yeah, and apparently some
of these guys were involved with dealing drugs, and UM,
that may have had something to do with it. There
(33:20):
was also a report in that statement that it was
sort of a conspiracy in that Um that Deputy Rivera
had their backs was the direct quote. UM. So you know,
maybe because the sun was in deep trouble, the deputy
got involved and made sure that that sort of stayed buried. UM.
But again this is you know, I think to call
(33:42):
this hearsay is pretty pretty accurate, but it's also a
pretty juicy deathbed story, which you know, these always play
well in these kind of cases, for sure. I also
saw that there was another guy who who gave a
third hand confession or second hand confession like that said
that UM Laurence Romero Junior confessed to him as well.
(34:03):
And Lawrence Romero Junior died in from a self inflicted
gunshot wound. And it's not clear whether Um he died
by suicide or other people say that he was playing
Russian Roulette very foolishly and it did not go so well.
But either way, he died in UM within a couple
of years of Tara Colico's disappearance. UM so at the time, again,
(34:27):
his father was Sheriff of Valencia County, and this deputy Rivera,
who supposedly had the um the Romero's backs, became sheriff
later and is now still Sheriff of Valencia County. From
what we understand, UM and what's weird though, is a
lot of that statement jibes with Rivera's weirdo press conference
(34:50):
that he held in two thousand and eight, that that
these these kids had you know, she was being followed
into trunk, she was bumped by a truck, she was
bumped by from behind, she was killed, that the people's
family helped them cover up the crime. Um, he just
stopped short of saying who it was, and that was
it's just very odd if he was the one that
(35:11):
was helping cover things up. To have that press conference
is a is a very odd thing to do if
you're in on it, you know. Yeah. And the one
thing we didn't mention earlier that's pretty important too. If
if you think back to that polaroid, Uh, if you're
asking yourself, like, surely they analyzed this thing for real
and it's not just up to Internet people to to
(35:32):
compare photos. Uh. There were a few different organizations that
looked into it, and they very frustratingly. One said yes,
we think that's our one said no, that's not, and
one said, well, we can't be sure. So that just
leads to the frustration. To literally have three groups looking
into this and each of them have a different take
(35:52):
on it kind of leads you back to nowhere for sure.
And if it's frustrating for us or for the web
sleuths or whoever's listening, Um, think of what it's like
for the family, you know, to hear you you you
just rather hear everybody say yes or everybody say no
to have it just inconclusive like that or contradictories just
gotta make it so much harder. But ultimately, when you
(36:14):
put all the pieces on the table, which one makes
more sense That she was killed locally and it was
covered up by some local families who had the ability
to cover it up, or that she was abducted and
ended up somehow in a polaroid in Port St. Joe,
Florida a year later. Um, And I think that's what
her sister was saying, where where she was saying. And
(36:35):
if I look at this photograph, I know that it's Tara.
But I also realized that that explanation makes the least
sense of all of the explanations that are out there,
so that the case is still ongoing. In two thousand nineteen,
the FBI, apparently out of nowhere, released a dollar reward
for information on the Tara Calico case. No one apparently
(36:57):
has any idea what prompted them to do that or
why they did it. Um, but it's out there. So
if you know anything about Tara Calico's disappearance, uh, and
you want to make a cool twenty grand, get in
touch with the FBI, or don't even do it for
the money, do it for the humanity. How about that? Yeah? Uh,
and that's it? Huh? You got anything else? I got
(37:17):
nothing else? Well? Then, uh, I guess that's it for
the Tara Calico case, hopefully for now. And since I
said that, it's time for a listener, Mayo, I'm gonna
call this math math math. Oh. I was hoping you're
gonna either ignore this or you hadn't seen it at all. Well,
(37:38):
I don't even know if. I mean, if this person
is right, this could be one of those great ones
wherein someone corrects the correction. That would be great somebody. Hey,
guys listening to one podcast and responding to Chuck's anticipation
for correction of Josh's math. Um, Josh, your competence and
certainty in your math or charming and inspiring. And I
appreciate it when people say something with conviction. Um. Now
(38:01):
onto the sour part. Josh, you almost had the math right,
but for some reason, you stated that the last seven
digits range from technically one million to nine million. N
this were true, then you would be correct in your calculations.
But according to what I can find, that does not
seem to be the case. The SEC website untold free
(38:22):
number spells out prefixes which are available, but it does
not provide a restricted range available for the last seven digits.
If you enter zero zero zero zero zero zero zero
as the last seven digits to check that if a
number is available, there is no information about that being
an invalid option. M I'm not quite sure. I follow.
(38:46):
For example, I checked one, eight, three three all zeros,
and it said there that it was available. So then
that brings us the range from all zeros to all nines,
which provides us with ten million, not nine million. Uh sorry, Josh.
So when you multiply that by seven prefixes, you get
seventy million combos seven times nine million, and sixty three million,
(39:07):
not fifty four million. The only reason that I'm sending
this emails not to draw attention to a well, actually
you did the math rong liar, but rather because Chuck
drew attention to it, So blame him, Josh, Okay, all right,
I'll go with that. Can I blame you both? Sure?
I think that's most appropriate. And that's from Noah in Philadelphia.
(39:29):
We saw you guys at the Bell House. My sister
and I saw you for her birthday. Please give a
shout out to Becca if this ends up on the show.
So Hello Becca, Happy very belated birthday, Becca. Well she's
had another one since then. Happy birthdays. I guess we
do the Bellhouse in October, so it's coming up, yeah
(39:50):
in who knows. Um. Well, thanks a lot, Noah, and
thanks to you and Becca for coming to see us live.
Eventually we will be out there live again. Yes, it
will be nice, so keep an ear out. I don't
know when, but we will eventually. And in the meantime,
if you want to get in touch with us, you
(40:11):
can do it by email. Send it off to Stuff
podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know
is a production of iHeart Radios. How stuff works for
more podcasts for my heart radio because at the iHeart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows. H
Stuff You Should Know News
Hosts And Creators
Chuck Bryant
Josh Clark
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