The Real How Jack the Ripper Worked

In this Halloween episode, Josh and Chuck go way back to late 19th century London to examine the grisly details of the Jack the Ripper murders. They also discuss Ripperology, Jack the Ripper suspects and theories, and the legacy of the murders.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know
from how Stuff works dot com. You've heard the rumors before,
perhaps and whispers written between the lines of the textbooks. Conspiracies,

(00:22):
paranormal events, all those things that disappear from the official explanations.
Tune in and learn more of this stuff they don't
want you to know in this video podcast from how
Stuff works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.

(00:43):
I'm Josh Clark with me as always as Charles W.
Chuck Bryant. I love England. Yeah, we're partying outside of
the Britannia Pub. It's Saturday September alright, Chu, Yeah, I
feel a little funny in my modern clothes, but everyone
seems to accept us. Yeah, they're pretty wasted, Chuck, and
I think they've noticed yet. Yes, uh we uh, we

(01:05):
came back here because we're about to stumble upon the
second victim of Jack the Ripper, and please don't hold
it against us. Part of our contract for use of
the way back machine, so we can't actually prevent any
historical occurrence from happening. Right. Doc Brown says that we
could not prevent the crime, so we won't even try. Yeah, so,
uh sorry Annie Chapman, but uh it sounds like here

(01:29):
we go, Chuck. Did you hear that. Yeah, that's the
end of Annie Chapman. Let's get over there. You want
to yes, crime scene? Uh number two? Okay, let's run
over Chuck. Hang back, man, let the cops do their work.
But I just want to show you a couple of things. Why,
by the way, are we at victim number two and
not victim number one? Well, victim number one was the

(01:51):
one that kicked all kicked off the canonical murders. But
Annie Chapman, who whose dead body we're looking at right
now is um she's she her wounds and what happened
to her is much more characteristic of Jack the Ripper.
I just kind of wanted you to get an impression.
I am impressed. Then, Yeah, some bad things happen to
this poort today. Okay, hang back, Chuck, let's let the

(02:13):
let's let the cops do their work. They're they're starting you.
I just want to show you a couple of whiles
to spare with me for a second. Yeah, it's pretty bloody, um,
but there's a there's actually a lot of detail, Um
that these investigators are eventually going to pick up one
which will be in an m O. Should you suggest

(02:34):
something at this point or do you just want to
hang back? I think we should hang back. But um
noticed that, um this is any Chapman. She was a
casual prostitute. Yea. Um, now what does that mean? It
means that she she made ends meet by engaging in prostitution.
So I'm sorry, by the way, miss Chapman's a bad
standing here like this, but yeah, it's true though. UM

(02:54):
So if you'll notice, Chuck, she's on her back and
her um her she she's been bled out of her
throat unfortunately. Yeah. But one thing I want you to notice,
and this is going to become a uh I guess
characteristic of the Ripper murder. Sure calling card if you will.
Sure her legs. Do you see how they're been at
the knee. They're arched up and then they're laying off

(03:16):
to the side. Yea, it looks like some sort of
childbirth thing. Actually have a theory about that, we'll get
too later. Theory. Okay, yes, all right, Well that's pretty
much all I wanted you to see. These guys are um,
we're we're witnessing an exercise and futility. These guys are
never going to figure out who did this. But yeah,
it looks like she's been cut up pretty good. Yeah,
so you want to get out here? You Okay, I'm

(03:36):
feeling queasy. All right, Well, let's get out of here.
They could just be the mead, all right, let's get
to the way back machine. Chuck. Okay. So Chuck, how
how do you feel? Uh? Nauseous, a bit hungover? You
look sober as day. Yeah, yeah, that's frightening. Yeah. So, Chuck,

(03:56):
that was Annie Chapman. Yeah, it was um. And she
is the second of what they call the canonical murders
or the Ripper murders, right, yeah, the White Chapel murders. Right.
So in the fall of from August thirty one to
November nine, there were five murders um that are among

(04:18):
the grizzlier murders ever committed in Great Britain, possibly anywhere.
And there were other murders, but these are attributed to
one Jack the Ripper. Yes, that's right, Chuck. Um, these five,
as we said, the canonical murders, uh, at the time
and throughout history since then, these five are definitely attributed

(04:40):
using m O and UM, comparing the bodies, that kind
of stuff, which we'll get into later. It's possible that
there are other murders UM. In particular, there was one
woman who was murdered on August seven, remember the first one, UM,
Maryanne Paulie Nichols was murdered on August thirty one, So

(05:02):
it's possibly yet another first victim named Martha Tabrum, who
was a murdered prostitute. Uh, and he may have um
started practicing on her. Hers was a little less precise
than you'll remember Annie Chapman's was, right, Yeah, I think
so so she she The reason people think that she
might be an extra ripper murder um is that her

(05:26):
legs were spread, if you'll notice that, like you said,
in the childbirth position. Uh, most of the women, if
not all, of the canonical murders were found like that
a theory and that we'll get to that though. All right,
So chuck um London, let's talk about the backdrop. Yeah,
London's East End at the time very poor, extremely poor,

(05:49):
and um the pubs were open all night and uh,
a lot of alcoholism, a lot of disease, a lot
of opium. As you know, it's not a very pleasant
place to be. No, it's not um, but there are
families trying to make it here. Again, it's it's mainly
just poverty. Yeah, a lot of like you said, casual prostitution.
There was a lot of that going on, just to
make ends me absolutely. One of the things that makes

(06:10):
the Ripper murders stand out so much is that this
this they weren't the only people that we murdered. There
was some really brutal crimes committed around that same time. Yeah.
Not a great place to be, no, but it really
says something about the Jack the Ripper murders and the
grip that it had on the people um in London's

(06:32):
East End Um that they stood out against this backdrop,
this horrible, bleak, violent backdrop, and in a way actually
people have later on talked about how it sort of
exposed this dirty secret of the poverty in London and
kind of brought it to light more so than anyone
else could at the time. Yeah, I think the murder
I think George Bernard Shaw, the playwright, said that Jack

(06:55):
the Ripper Um succeeded where social reformers had failed by
shining a spotlight on the living conditions in London's Easton.
That's one way to do it. Yeah, and he had
a whole lot of other impacts. He was a lot
of firsts in a lot of ways. We'll talk about
that a little bit. Well, let's go over the victims,
the canonical victims. Chuck, Okay, how much detail you want
to go into here, because it is grizzly, as much

(07:18):
as you'd like, but as much as you can stomach. Well,
the first, like you said, was Maryanne Polly Nichols, and
she's forty four. She was an alcoholic, like most of
her cohort victims. Yeah, that was definitely a m The
the common thread for all the women is that they
were either drunk at the time or were known to

(07:39):
love the liquor. Right, And the other through line there
is that they were all known to be prostitutes, at
least casually here and there, And a lot of people
suspect that Jack, you know, he some people thought he
may have like hated prostitutes, but it was probably just
an easy mark. A drunk hooker sure would be an
easy person to kill at five thirty in the morning
in London. Definitely it's actually a drunk hooker in need

(08:01):
of money and need exactly. Yeah. So, uh so Polly
was the first one. She was killed at about or
she was found at three in the morning. Yeah, severe
lacerations in her throat and further incisions and uh to
her neck and violent lacerations to her abdomen, which makes
her um a lot like Martha Tabroum. She was stabbed

(08:25):
I think thirty nine times to her abdomen. Yeah, they're
all slightly different, I noticed. But if you look at it,
especially if you start with Martha tab Roam and go
all the way up to his last known victim, Mary
Jane Kelly, it's almost like a pro You can see
the progression. First it's all just rage, and then it
becomes much more methodical after he gets more uncomfortable with

(08:45):
what he's doing. True, So we talked about Annie as well.
We witnessed Annie. Yeah. Uh. Then I think next was
Elizabeth Stride, Lizzie Stride. She's forty five and um, she
was drunk at the time. She also engaged in casual
prostitution and UM, but she was seeing alive um refusing

(09:06):
a proposition right, and she also was seen speaking with
a man and holding a parcel with in like a
newspaper parcel. Yeah, this man pops up several times actually
in the canonical murders. Yeah, the shabby genteel that was
actually yes, um So, she's last seen at twelve thirty
five am on Sunday, September, and five minutes later she's

(09:30):
found in UH, a dark alley off Burner Street called
Dutfields Yard. Her legs are very familiarly by now pulled
up to her toward her body, knees in the air spread,
and she has a krichief tied around her neck. Yes,
but she interestingly was not mutilated, which suggests to historians
that he may have been interrupted before he could complete

(09:51):
his whole thing right, And they definitely think he was
interrupted because about an hour or so later, another ripper
victim turns up, Katherine ETOs. She was forty six and
she was a heavy drinker as well, but she was
intelligent and educated. And actually I just read a thing
last week where they just discovered, Yeah, the census records,

(10:13):
I believe, just like a week ago, revealed some of
these UH people for the first time in their backgrounds
weren't as grizzly as you might have thought a lot
of them were smart and had families and right, but like, um,
uh what was her name, Annie Chapman's daughter dying broke
up the family they had. Yeah, they had. When you
talk about him, you think, oh, engaging casual prostitution, and

(10:35):
we're drunks. They were obviously idiots, you know. But no,
these these people had actual, real lives, um, and real
things happened to them that led them to these these
points where they were murdered by the ripper. Um. And
also that that's a really good point, Chuck, because it's
really hard for us to put ourselves into that situation

(10:56):
of what it was like at the time. Um. But
these were real people dying in really brutal ways, and
at the time it was it had a real impact
on the collective psyche of the people who lived in London.
You know, we're talking um paranoia, mobs forming. Yeah, let
me tell you a little story about a guy named Squibby. Okay,

(11:19):
there's a man named Squibby. He used to have run
ins with the police. He was tattooed from head to
toe is how they described it. And Squibby, Um, you
want to go see him, Chuck, Yeah, let's go see Squibby.
See him. Yeah, he's a weird looking little guy in it.
Do not make eye contact with Squibby, Chuck, you will

(11:41):
punch you in the face just as soon as look
at you. Okay, Well, Squibby is tattooed from head to toe.
He's a short little guy, but real stocking and strong,
kind of like Glenn Danzing Uh and he um he
has run ins with the police routinely. There are a
couple of detectives who were down um in uh White
Chapel around the time of the Ripper murders. By this

(12:04):
time that the public had been whipped up into a
frenzy and um, they knew Squibby by site. Obviously he's
pretty notable guy. Uh. And they had a couple of
truncheons each, each one at a trunch and they started
chasing Squibby. Uh. And this crowd apparently who had gathered
outside of a think Um Catherine at Oos murder Um

(12:27):
saw the police chasing Squibby and just immediately assumed that
it was Jack the rippers. So this huge mob formed, right,
and they're running through the streets after Squibby and and
the police actually they were chasing him because they figured
it was the Ripper and they were going to kill him. Finally,
they get Squibby to the police station, and the mob
just throngs the station and stays for like several hours

(12:49):
until they finally realized it wasn't Jack the Ripper. It's
just some guy that's good stuff. Yeah it was. Yeah,
So Chuck, while we're here, Um, do you want to
just fast forward a few Yeah, mine, since we have
the way back, when can you do this one more time?
I will be there blindfolded and you can just describe
it to me. All right. Well, Chuck, listen, we're going
to go into a place called Miller Court. It's an

(13:10):
apartment house. Uh. It's about um ten forty five in
the morning, and a rent collector has just found the
body of Mary Jane Kelly. Yeah, because he ran screaming
from the apartment like we should be doing right now. Well,
let's just just steal yourself, Chuck the courage many. Um,
We're we're gonna wait for the cops to show up,

(13:31):
because um, well this is hands down the worst, uh
the worst mutilation of any of his victims. Yeah, because
she's clearly inside here, the only one that's inside. So
I guess he had a little more time to get busy.
Huh right, yeah, uh, And I didn't bring you back
here just to make you vomit, Chuck, Okay, this is uh,
this is this crime scene and of itself is very

(13:53):
important as far as Jack the Ripper goes, and as
far as the murders go. Right, how so, Well, for one,
there's evidence that an ax was used on this poor lady, Yeah,
which is unusual for Jack the Ripper, But he also
did a lot of He used a lot of surgical
precision and removed organs and in chunks of flesh and

(14:14):
all sorts of disgusting things. Is you you okay? Yeah,
it looks like her face almost has been removed. Here
all right over here, buddy, the cops are coming. Okay, okay,
well watch watch right? Did someone just take a photograph? Good? I, Chuck,
That's exactly why I wanted you to see this up.
That is arguably the first crime scene photograph ever taken

(14:36):
in the history of human kind. Yeah, and it's pretty
it turned out pretty grainy. But if you ever see
it and you're aware of what happened to Mary Jane Kelly,
it's a pretty disturbing photograph. Like if you're just looking
at it, it's the you see what the guys working with.
It's not like the most high tech camera around. Sure,
there's a sketch artist over there too, there's gotta be

(14:56):
a lot of fun. But what we're witnessing right here
is the culmination of, uh, this string of murders. This
is the last canonical murder as far as anybody knows,
that is definitively attributed to Jack the Ripper. Well in
most people's minds. So you want to you want to
take off pale, you look a little green. Well, I
just feel like we should say before we go, if
I'm not mistaken, I see body parts under her head

(15:19):
and on the side table, Yes you do. Why did
he do that? Uh? He was a sick Oh he
was Jack the Ripper. Yeah there there you go, right there.
So let's get out of here, buddy. Then what the
cop just kind of looked over at us. Yeah, seriously,
let's go, So, Chuck, we now have the canonical victims.

(15:40):
We've seen two of them. We've talked about the rest
of them. There were some other ones that's that are possible. Um,
there's the Whitehall mystery victim, headless, limbless torso that was
found actually in the basement of Scotland Yard as it
was under construction, um on October two, which is actually
within the timeframe of the Remember murders. But um, they

(16:03):
never said that this one is remember And there was
a one body found in New York actually that people
think that Jack the reper might have fled England, which
is why the murders stopped in London and then uh
did a little handiwork there in New York City. It's possible,
and there's actually a suspect who who was there at
the time of the murder of Carrie Brown a k a.
Old Shakespeare as she was named because she used to

(16:26):
love to get drunk and quote Shakespeare sonnets. That's nice
until she died, right, Um, So there are actually plenty
of other ones that are were never definitively attributed to them.
But so let's just stick with the five possibly six
canonical murders we talked about that, right, So chuck another
we have the five bodies. Um, we can put together

(16:49):
what's known as a modus operandi A K A and
m O and a k A. By the way, it's
for also known as his m O Josh. He struck
in the early hours. He struck on weekends, which Chuck wise,
is significant well because it would lead the detectives to
believe that he probably had a was a regular guy

(17:10):
and had a regular workday job, and was probably single
because because he wouldn't have aroused suspicion from the wife
by leaving it, you know, all hours of the evening
and Chuck, that's that. That also kind of sounds like, well,
maybe his wife is loyal. No. People were neighbors were
turning in neighbors for suspicious activities, saying my neighbor's jack
ripper um. People were going absolutely not so they think

(17:32):
that he was single or else somebody would have come
for and been like, my husband's been going out and
coming back with blood on his clothes on the night
of the Ripper murders. I have a theory that he
was previously married and his wife couldn't give him a child.
That's what I think. That's where the childbirth positions came up. Chuck,

(17:53):
my friends has just turned into a budding ripparologist. I'm
proud of you. Thank you. Other clues Josh, he h
strangle all but one of his victims initially that was
the method of death. UM. And then he would um
put the throat. He would cut their throat and remember
he cut from left to right because he was like
right handed, and he would he would kneel on the

(18:14):
victim's right side and cut so that the blood spurted
away from him and largely drained out of the carotid artery. Yeah,
my ideas, he probably led them out so when he
was doing all his handiwork, he wouldn't get sprayed and
there wouldn't just be blood everywhere. So right now, that
that suggests number one, a working knowledge of anatomy. Um
number two, somebody who is clever and doesn't want to

(18:39):
get caught. That's a huge one. UM. Back in White Chapel,
uh And during this time the police were working on
the theory that he was clearly a raving madman. And
it was actually a really bad time to be insane
in White Chapel because a number of people were just committed.

(18:59):
They be picked up during police drag nets and taking
do insane asylums for the rest of their lives. UM.
The police spent a lot of time in Whitechapel, chasing
squibby um corralling the insane and interviewing suspects, and modern
forensic investigators today believe that Scotland Yard or the Metropolitan

(19:20):
Police probably interviewed the Ripper at some point but let
them go because they were looking for somebody crazy and
they don't think that Jack the Ripper was. They called
them frightening lee normal today. Yeah exactly, so Chuck, what
are some other clues? Well they into and oh six

(19:40):
they Scotland Yard actually put together a physical description that's
two thousand six, just a few years ago. Uh they
reckoned he was between twenty five and thirty five, medium height,
stocky and a resident of Whitechapel and like you said,
very much normal. And uh in the FB I actually
did a psychological profile. This is the case that just

(20:02):
won't die. Oh no, I mean ripparologists. It's I literally
looked the other day and there were four or five
new possible suspects within the past like year that people
are still naming. Who will get to in a minute,
Yes we will. And um, let's talk about the FBI profile.
Special Agent John Douglas is who did this. He said

(20:24):
he was opportunistic like you. Yeah, like you said, I
just say that I'm an opportunistic killer, right, Like, like
I said, with the drunk prostitutes being a pretty easy mark, right,
they also think that Well. Douglas also suggests that, um,
he was a lust killer, which is not to be
confused with any level of sexuality. Yeah, he did not

(20:45):
have sex with any of these women. No, but some
people do think it's possible that Jack the Ripper was
a cannibal, and possibly that some of the stuff he
took along with, um, all right, weren't just trophies but
were food as well. Oh wow, Actually there's a letter
called from the from Hell letter, the controversial from Hell letter.
Oh yeah, there are a lot of letters. Um, there

(21:08):
were a couple of hundred, from what I understand, sent
to the cops, sent to the press. All the way
up until the nineteen sixties, they were still getting letters
from the right, right. Um. A couple of women were
actually prosecuted for fraud for writing um, fake Jack the
Ripper letters. Um, there was there was one letter out
of these many hundreds that a lot of ripporologists today

(21:29):
believe actually was written by Jack the Ripper. It's called
the Dear Boss letter, dear boss, I'll keep on hearing
the police have caught me, but they won't fix me
just yet. I have laughed when they look so clever
and talk about being on the right track. I joke
about leather apron gave me real fits. I am down

(21:52):
on horse and all shot. Quit ripping them till I
do get buckled. Grand work. That last job was I'll
get the lady no time to score wheel? How can
they catch me now? I love my work and I
want to start again. You will seem hear of me
in my funny little games. I'll save some of the
proper red stuff and a ginger beer bottle over the

(22:13):
last job to write with, but it went picklock blue
and I can't use it. Red ink is fit enough.
I hope the next job I do, I shall clip
the ladies ears off and send to the police officers
just for jolly. Wouldn't you keep this letter back until
I do a bit more work and give it out straight.

(22:33):
My knife is so nice and sharp. I want to
get to work right away if I get a chance.
Good luck yours, truly, Jack the ripper, don't mind me
giving the trade name PS wasn't good enough to post
this before I got all the red ink off my hands.
Curse it. No luck as yet they say, I'm a

(22:54):
doctor now and chuck. One of the reasons why this
letter is so significant. Number one, it's the letter that
gave um the name Jack the Ripper to the killer.
And number two, um it made a reference to taking
a piece of his next victim's ear. Right. Well, that

(23:17):
letter was received September and on septem Catherinetto's was found.
Remember she was the second victim in the same night,
and part of her ear was removed. Now wasn't published
before that it was, which I mean you could you
can definitely take that as evidence that what that the

(23:38):
Ripper read about it and decided to take the ear.
But because there there's a historian this was actually this
year he wrote a book is named Dr Andrew Cook,
and he thinks that there were a bunch of different killers.
And he actually, uh allegedly says that Frederick Best was
a reporter for the Star newspaper and he said he

(24:00):
forged the Dear Boss letter. Really yes, he said he
forged it, invented the name Jack the Ripper to uh
sell newspapers because there were a new startup newspaper and
they were about to close their doors, and their sales
just like went through the roof after this letter. So
that's what he alleges there. There are also a lot
of Ripper oologists believed that none of the letters um
were written by Jack the Ripper, and that they were

(24:22):
all pretty much made up by the press or made
up by crazy people or whatever. But none of that
the letters were written by Jack the Ripper is another
way to look at it, right, And he uh unearthed
interview given by a guy named Percy Clark, and he
was the assistant police surgeon in Whitechapel, and he said, quote,
I think perhaps one man was responsible for three of them.
I would not say he did the others. And then

(24:44):
another senior investigating officer said the same thing that he
didn't think that the last victim, that Kelly, was a
victim of the Ripper, but a copycat killer as well,
who knows. Yeah, well that's the point though, isn't it.
I mean, like if if if you're looking for one
murderer on Dreden hundred and twenty years on, UM, that's

(25:04):
difficult enough. Imagine looking for three or five killers twenty
years on One of the other reasons why this is
this case will likely never be solved is a lot
of the evidence has just gone Um. They investigated Jack
the Ripper for three years and then finally closed the
case as unsolved, and around the time and probably before then, UM,

(25:27):
cops working the case or cops that had access to
the evidence room just took evidence as souvenirs from mentos UM.
I believe a lot of the records, if not all,
the records were destroyed in a fire, um or destroyed
because they had reached their shelf life of being kept
as as records. So I mean, there's there's really not

(25:47):
a lot of evidence anymore now. And you know, this
was clearly a different day they they would have caught
him today, probably pretty easily. Maybe that's what I think
it's possible. So let's talk about some of the suspects. Well,
there's more than a hundred that have been named throughout
the years. I've read a hundred and seventy different people
named a suspect. Well, and there's it looks like three

(26:07):
or four new ones a year now still, so right,
do you want to talk about the most recent one? Man? Uh? Yeah,
there was a discovery Channel show. Uh, it was on
last week where a historian name my Trow used modern
forensics and he identified one Robert Man and this one. Actually. See,
that's the thing. Anytime I read like I thought Walter
Siccret was after hearing that Cornwall lady talk about secret being. Well,

(26:32):
we'll get to him. But my point is, any time
I've I've seen a show or special, I come away thinking, oh,
well that was Jack the Ripper and make a real
convincing argument. Yeah. Um. I went on casebook dot org um,
which I wrote how Jack the Ripper works, the article
that we based this podcast on. Um, And I defer
humbly to the people who run and go on face

(26:55):
or casebook dot org um entirely different. If your interest
has been the least bit piqued by this, I I
strongly recommend well number one going to housetuf first dot
com to read the article, but then number two going
to case books because they have everything right. So um,
I went onto casebook to see what they thought of Man,

(27:16):
and sure enough, like the the the I don't think
the documentary had even premiered yet, and everybody had read
the Man's book. Um, and we're just tearing him apart,
which coincidentally is the second book to be titled Case Closed. Yeah,
which I think is pretty funny. Everyone says I found
it case Closed. And ripparologists don't take very kindly to

(27:38):
this kind of thing. They these these people are amateur historians,
amateur criminologists, um, all rolled into one, and they just
this is just what they do. Uh, and a lot
once in a while somebody will come along and do
some research, write a book and slap case Closes on
the title, and they do not like that. Well, let's
let's go over man real quick. Uh. He was a

(28:00):
morgue attendant in Whitechapel. He was a an inmate at
a prison when he ran the More, or he was
an attendant at the More. He was he was in
charge of receiving bodies I think, yea, specifically the bodies
of the people that they believe he killed three of them.
And uh, interestingly, well they say damning Lee in this article.
He he actually undressed Polly Nichol's body with his assistant,

(28:24):
and he was under strict orders not to do anything
like that. And a lot of people say that this
is why, you know, he may have been trying to
admire his his handywork there, show it off to his buddy.
And I think somebody made a point on casebook that
this would probably be the first time that the body
revisited the killer rather than the other way around. The

(28:46):
problem with Man that I, as I understand it was
that he was an inmate in a prison. Pretty much
as simple as that. Even with a tremendous amount of
freedom that he might have had with a job, he
would have still had that job at the isn't could
he have just come and gone as he pleased, um,
to go murder women, especially on weekends. So um, I

(29:08):
think that was the biggest problem that I ran across
with Man. And also his testimony was discounted at the
time because his boss basically said this man is prone
to fits and his he's not to be believed. But
modern what the forensic psychologist at Liverpool University said in

(29:31):
terms of psychological profiling, he's one of the most credible
suspects from recent years and the closest we may ever
get to a plausible psychological explanation. So who knows? Once again,
case closed? But is it so now Cornwall? Yeah, let's
get to Cornwall. She had a particularly um, let's say,
difficult relationship with reparologists. Yeah, they don't like her, and

(29:53):
good reason. She plamed Walter Sickert. He was a painter,
very famous painter at the time, and he was known
for painting nudes of women. Who were they butchered or
were they just depends on your interpretation, wide open for interpretation.
Some people said they were dead women, dead nude women.

(30:13):
But when you look at like, what's the one painting
Camden Town Murder. Yeah, it's called the Camden Town Murder
and it's a naked woman on the bed and there's
a man sitting on the edge of the bed with
his hands in his face, and he looks like he's
overcome with guilt for just murdering the woman. But what
is the alternate title of that painting? What shall we

(30:34):
do for rent? Was the was the alternate title, which
if you look at it through those eyes, it could
be a depressed man and his wife. You know she
was naked, sure, but who wasn't. And uh, from what
I understand about Walter sicker I would not put it
past him, um to be fully aware that he was
toying with the public with stuff like this. Then enjoying it,

(30:56):
but it doesn't necessarily mean he was a murder. Um
Cornwell was one of the ones who titled her bookcase
close um. And she apparently strode into the world of
reparology a fairly arrogantly, one could say, um. And she
used to I guess on her book to her lecture
to her. When the book was released, it was heavily

(31:18):
attended by ripporologists who were looking to rip her a
new one um, and she did not like them one bit.
She compared them to trek eas Um, very demeaningly and uh.
She also it came out that during the course of
researching the book, she purchased a secret painting for a
substantial amount of money so she could tear it apart

(31:40):
to look for clues. She found nothing, and the curator
of a major secret collection in London called her monstrously
stupid for doing that. So I was always amused by that. Yeah,
she kind of hung her case on. She collected h
M d NA mitochondrial DNA, and she was able to
rule out comparing it to the letters that were sent

(32:03):
Um that of of the people could not have been responsible,
but Walter Sickert could have, and the other thing with
the mitochondrial DNA is. She'll tout that the people are excluded.
She doesn't really point out that that's still left about
fifty thousand other people that could have been the murder.
She made it sound like everyone but Walter Sickert has

(32:24):
been absolved. Well. On the other side, Walter Sickert was
very well known as a prolific writer of letters to
the editor, right, um, and so he very well may
have written a ripper letter. But that's a huge leap
in logic to say that he wrote a ripper letter.
So he he was so chuck. My money's not on
Walter Sickert. Um. And he's not the only famous person

(32:47):
to be named as a suspect. Lewis Carroll, Yeah, was
suggested as a suspect. I don't think by any any
of the police. No, they pulled they supposedly pulled anagrams
from some of his books that everyone else is like,
come on, um. Prince Albert Victor was thought to be
maybe some diabolical madman and the the went mad with syphilis.

(33:07):
Yes that's what they say, yeah, um. And the entire
royal family has been implicated in another theory, The Freemasons
the Freemasons. Can't forget them. They're implicated in everything, aren't they. Um.
But then there's some lesser known people who usually actually
make better suspects than you know, the entire royal family, Right, Chuck,
I would say so, and they actually would. They end

(33:28):
up naming officially three suspects in the actual case before
they closed it. Right. Police commissioners Sir Neville McNaughton UM
wrote in eight eighty nine who he thought the three
best suspects were in In his final report, he wrote, UM,
he named Michael Ostrog, a Russian physician and convicted thief,

(33:48):
Montague John Drewett, who was a physician um and who
was found drowned in the Thames uh the December after
the murders, And Aaron Kasminski, who was an insane man
um and these were mcdalton's three top picks. UM. Unfortunately,
probably not. Michael Ostrog was found in two thousand two

(34:11):
in a book by Philip Sugden UH that he was
actually in police custody during the time of the murders
in Paris. Um. Montague John drew It possibly UM if
he died in December, that would definitely explain why the
murders ended suddenly. And then Aaron Kasminski, Um, he was

(34:33):
he was in He was crazy, but he wasn't violent
at all. Um. And most people don't think it was him.
I shouldn't say most people. There are some that probably
think it's him, but I don't personally. My money instead
is on Severing Klazowski. George Chapman, Alright, why do you
think he did it? Well, let me retract that he's

(34:55):
I don't know enough about it to say that he is.
He's my leads huspect from the people I know of
he's he's my lead suspect. He was a man who
had a nasty little habit of poisoning his wives, and
he did it to three of them after the Ripper murders. Uh.
He was finally caught on the third one because somebody
finally figured out, Hey, this guy's wives are in no

(35:16):
way related to one another, and yet they keep dying
from this mysterious illness. And they um, they found that
he had poisoned one, exhumed the other two, and he
was convicted of all three. Uh. And this was in
the United States, but he'd been living in Whitechapel at
the time. During the murders. Um he had a he

(35:37):
was trained as a physician, UM and he moved to
America and lived in New Jersey at the time that
that one New York possible Ripper murder took place. So
the the big question is, if Klausowski was the guy,
why would he change his m o so drafted drastically

(35:58):
from butchering women to reasoning lives. That's I don't think
anyone's ever switched gears like that. But out of all
of them, out of all the Ripper suspects, he's the
only one that has been convicted of three murders. He's
the only known serial murderer in the bunch, which is
why my my money's on him. That's a good one.
Who's your favorite? I like them, Robert Man, That makes sense.

(36:23):
That's that's who my money's on. That's I think there's
you said. A hundred hundred and seventies suspects have been named,
and again, if you're interested in this, go onto casebook.
They have detailed descriptions of every single suspect. But let's
talk about the legacy left by the Ripper Chuck, Yeah,
I mean it was it was probably the first crime

(36:44):
scene photo ever taken. Yeah, it was the first big, um,
I think, international murder case that was known throughout the world.
It was the first case of symbol the now well
known symbiotic relationship between a serial murderer and the press,
where the press gives the serial murder um, you know,
infamy that that he or she requires, uh, and then

(37:07):
the serial killer gives the press, you know, fodder for articles.
And I think further uh, I think the Zodiac killer
sent letters to the editor and that became kind of
a thing for serial killers to do later on. Yeah. Um,
and this is one of the first times that comparing
the bodies to establish an m O it has been
used basically. Um. You can argue that the the um

(37:30):
all modern forensic techniques started kind of piecemeal, but they
all started with the Ripper murders. I would agree with that, right.
And like we said before them Ripper murders shown a
light on the living conditions in the East End of London,
uh and led to real change. I think sanitation was

(37:53):
introduced largely. Um. There is a lot more interest in
the plight of the poverty stricken than there had in before.
And Chuck also, there's clearly a pretty big legacy left
behind in the form of ripparologists, um countless TV shows, movies,
UM from Hell from Hell. That was. That was unsettling.

(38:15):
You know, there's a video game coming I heard and
Jack the Ripper is going to be a superhero that
fights demons. Yeah, he's a he's actually an anti hero,
but he's misunderstood the killings were it was it demons
or vampires, both all manner of EMPs and lesser demons.
It's gonna be awesome. Yeah, and there's a conference every year, right,

(38:35):
I don't know if it's every year, but um, this year.
Actually it was just last week in London, first time
they ever had it in London, and they rented a
pub for the entire weekend. So that's that. Sounds like
an awesome conference so far. Yeah, they have speakers and
from seven to eleven every night is entertainment and disco
disco Jack the Ripper Conference Disco. So that sounds like
a nice way to end this, an upbeat way to

(38:56):
end this, which, if you consider it, is highly ironic
because this definitely are grizzliest podcast yet. Yeah, it's not
gonna get any more grizzly. Yeah, so obviously We did
this one for Halloween, so I have a safe and
happy Halloween everybody. And if you have any ideas about
who Jack the Ripper might be, and if it's not
your neighbor, that would be fantastic. You can put it
in an email send it to stuff podcast at how

(39:18):
stuff works dot com for more on this and thousands
of other topics, does it how stuff works dot com.
Want more how stuff works, check out our blogs on
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(39:41):
are you