November 4, 2021 • 49 mins
Cleveland rocks! So said the city of Cleveland when they lobbied for the "Rock Hall" way back in 1985. Since then the museum has grown and evolved amidst great support and controversy.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I
Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.
There's Charles w Lix Bryant and Jerry's over there, and
(00:22):
this is stuff you should know. The Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame edition Tata or as was it Skinner
that said rock and or Rolling? Yes, it was. It's
a good one. I'm glad you said that, because every
time we walk past something one of the Simpsons characters
said and their nine hundred million seasons, somebody writes and
(00:45):
it's like, how could you possibly not say this? You dummies?
Remember that time we got to go to a Simpson's
table read probably second or third best day of either
one of our lives. Yes, absolutely, that's always what I
respond back with. I was like, oh, I'm sorry. Were
you at the table Marie we were at when we
met Matt Graening and he drew Simpsons characters on our
autograph scripts, which I still have. I don't. I don't
(01:07):
know if you still have yours. I still have mine, Kidney. Yes,
I am kidding you. I can know I tossed it.
So you're like, I don't have room for this. Yeah. Um,
so Chuck, we are talking about the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame today. We've already talked about the Simpsons
on an official episode before too of them. Actually, this
one's a little different. This is about rock and roll,
(01:28):
the musical genre, which is way more encompassing than a
lot of people would like to admit. It turns out. Yeah,
we'll get into that. There's a lot there, We definitely will.
I it smacks a lot of our remember our disco episode. Yeah,
smacks a lot of that. And I now we've talked
about this. I don't think you've been. Have you to
(01:49):
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? No? I haven't. Actually,
I'm sorry, Cleveland. I'm sorry, but I settled down. I
have not. I have not been yet now, and I
actually have to say, I don't know that I care to.
I know that there are plenty of people out there
who love would love to go to that and should,
(02:10):
But for me personally, I just I don't care. Yeah,
it's not your kind of place. Really, No, it's not.
It's not meant for losers like me. No, I don't
think that's it. It's it's meant for losers like me.
I went, you know, my family or Emily's families from Akron,
and so we when they were all living there, we
(02:31):
spent Christmas Is there and other holidays there. So we
did all the Cleveland things and this was one of them.
And um, definitely, it's definitely one of the Cleveland things
to do. For sure. It's one of the Cleveland things. Um,
it's a place that I want to go back to.
I love this in the in the museum in Seattle,
like the pop Culture Museum. I can't remember what it's called.
(02:51):
What's called the Museum of Popular Culture? Awesome? Yeah, and
there's but there's more and then they name. But I
love standing and looking at uh, the the original pad
of paper where the original lyrics to Purple Hazer written.
(03:13):
See that's what I'm saying. I like listening to Purple
I couldn't it was originally written on Like I get
what people are getting out of this. It just doesn't
hit me that way, No, I hear you. I had
a bunch of other things I was gonna say I love,
But are you gonna say you don't love them? After
every one of them? Let's let's find out. I love
looking at the outfit that Bruce Springsteen were on the
(03:33):
board in the USA cover right in front of me.
I love looking it. I could see how you would
like that. I don't care about that outfit. I love
standing in front of Prince's tiny little purple jumpsuit, cool
guitar or Mick Jaggers Uh tiny little ten year old
boy sized jeans leather pants so small. They're also small.
(03:57):
I thought Mick Jagger was, you know, not point size.
Really Okay, I knew Prince was small, but I didn't
know that Mick Jagger was as well. That's and we've
talked about this. That's why they learned to be musicians,
because they can't they're trying to get girls. Well, Prince
was a great basketball player too. I don't know about
Mick Jagger, but he was show Yes, it's true, so
(04:20):
that he played basketball in high school too. Oh man, yeah, no,
he for his size, he was a good athlete, I think.
But uh, the point is, I really really love seeing
that stuff in Seattle. I love seeing Kurt Cobain striped
sweater from the video and the broken drumsticks of Dave
Grohl and and Chris Cornell's Gibson guitar. Like I loved
(04:41):
knowing that that's and this is not just rock and
roll memorabilia. Like I like any museum where I'm like, oh,
that's the real thing. That's the Declaration of Independence I'm
looking at. It's not a copy, that's the one. Um.
I really get a lot out of seeing the thing
in person, and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
has a lot of things to look at in person.
(05:03):
So I don't want to come off like some rube
who doesn't care about museums. Like I care deeply about museums.
It's just some like pop culture memorabilia doesn't do it.
It's as simple as that. I think we've established that, Okay,
but I just do. A lot of people would be
like joshly and like museums would have dummy. No, we
know you like museums. You got engaged in a museum.
You like museums so much. That's absolutely true. Thanks for that.
(05:26):
I appreciate the backup, chuck. Yeah, and you like like
you'll see uh uh the Scream and a million art
websites and art history books. But to stand in front
of the screen is a different thing because it's the
real thing. All right, let's talk about the Rock and
Roll Hall of fame itself. Shall we Yes? I think
(05:47):
we should start talking first about this because this really
kind of summarizes a lot of some people hate the
rock and Roll Hall of Fame, not just because they're
not into pop culture museums, but they hate the idea
and they think it the least rock and thing you
can do is vote people into a Hall of Fame, Yeah,
which is a real criticism of it. And it's really
something that um, from what I've read, the rock and
(06:08):
Roll Hall of Fame, this the rock hall. The people
who are in the know, um have has never fully
figured out how to how to deal with that paradox,
because it is a paradox, like to take like what
is rock and roll, which is you know, like in
your face, your parents hate it. Um, It's it's like
it doesn't follow the rules, and then just like put
(06:30):
it behind incredibly expensive like recessed lighting with and protecting
it with plexiglass at all that that is the opposite
of that, and they've just they just had to move
forward as a paradox basically. Yeah. And I should point
out too that my love for this stuff is like
it doesn't have to be behind glass, Like I love
(06:52):
being and I'm going to Woodstock, New York in November.
I'm gonna drive by Big Pink, where Bob Dylan and
the band lived. And I like being at the places
is where the things really existed. There's an energy to it.
I think, I get why you're going to drive by
that house, but I don't care about that. You gotta stop.
But this all comes back to Johnny Rotten, Uh, the
(07:15):
leader of the Sex Pistols. They were inducted. He wrote, uh,
scribbled out on a piece of paper. Didn't go obviously,
and he said, next to the Sex Pistols, rock and
roll and that Hall of Fame is a pis stain
your museum, urine in wine. We're not coming, We're not
your monkeys. And so what that was it was a
(07:36):
great read. So that's sort of the thing though, That
is how some people feel. But to me, the Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame is rock and roll because
they read that on stage rather than just burying it,
you know what I mean, Like that's rock and roll, ye,
And I mean it's had such an enormous impact on
world culture, on human culture that like, of course it
(07:57):
deserves a museum. And then if you're gonna do like
a world class museum. There's just certain things you have
to do, and yes, that doesn't fit with rock and roll,
but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't have a rock
and roll museum. It's just like, yeah, we took this
rock and roll stuff and put it under plexiglass, and
that's just what you do when you create a museum.
That's right. Uh, But we'll talk about more of that
(08:17):
stuff later. But let's talk about the history, shall we. Yeah,
because the whole thing opened up on September, but it
had been brewing since the early eighties. I think thanks
to a dude named Ama aired again er Errigen. I
think it's air again. I got it the first time
and then I doubted myself, but I still got it.
(08:39):
That's the point, that's right. So air Again was the
co founder of Atlantic Records, UM the biggest name in
records in sort of at a certain time. And there
it's a yeah, a couple of certain times. He was
the son of a um, a Turkish ambassador, but love music. Uh.
(09:00):
Co founded Atlantic and with Jerry Wexler and started out
in the R and B game. Yeah, did they signed
the Drifters, Ray Charles Aretha Franklin, all of whom were
like unknown at the time. So that alone is like
worth celebrating, Like that's an amazing record label just to start.
And then in the sixties they shifted over to rock
(09:22):
um and signed Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones and Cream
and UM. So just these two incarnations over two decades,
Um kind of put Atlantic on the map. I think,
like you said, it kept going right, Like, is is
Atlantic still around? Oh? It's got to be. I mean
it's probably owned by Disney or something, but sure, sure,
(09:42):
but it's a storied record label and for good reason,
that's right. And so he first hatched the idea of
having a museum and a rock and roll Hall of Fame,
and he was like, well, of course it will be
in New York City, because that's just where you do it.
What he didn't know was that, uh, there were these
businessmen in Cleveland, Ohio that we're already planning their own
(10:05):
rock and roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland. Yes, And
when uh Amma Urdigens heard that, he shuddered. I was like,
all right, why Cleveland? And I said, well, hold on,
Like Cleveland actually has a lot of claim to rock
and roll cred for one the local DJ. Allen Freed
is widely considered as the person who coined the term
(10:28):
rock and roll. That guy came up with it and
he was at Cleveland DJ and Eric Agan said, Okay,
I'm listening. What else you got? And he said, well,
you know it was a very the radio station. Uh
w j W that Freed DJ. Dat broke a lot
of big acts. You kind of had to make it
in Cleveland. Not had to, but making in Cleveland could
(10:50):
break you. David Bowie was broke there Rush and we
gotta thank Dave Rouse for putting this together. And I
also want to thank Dave Russe for saying Bruce Springstein. Yeah,
I noticed that. Now. I know it's a type of
Dave and you're listening, but it was fun to read
He's like, no, I mean the much less known bring
(11:10):
Bruce Springstein. Uh. Joe Walsh is from Cleveland. Trin resumes
from Cleveland, Ohio. You know I've talked about before in
Emily's hometown of Akron, her high school, Firestone is where
Devo was from. And Chrissy Hynes keys, Yeah, like that's
a heck of a roster to come out of a
single high school. Yes, plus also like um, even back
(11:33):
long before Divo was around, that same guy Alan Freed,
the DJ he uh, He organized and hosted what's also
considered the first rock and roll show, the Moondog Coronation Ball,
way back in nineteen two. So, and we've talked about
it before. I could not figure out what we've talked
(11:53):
about the Coronation Ball. Yeah, because we've we've definitely covered it.
I'm almost positive anyway. Yes, So Eveland has like some
rock and roll credit, so it would make sense that
they would be considering rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
And it would also make sense that Eric again and
and the rest of the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame Foundation said Okay, well we'll think about this. They
(12:14):
were skeptical at first, but then they said, how about this.
We'll open this whole thing up to voting is to
where the site should be. UM, and we'll say Cleveland's
one of a number of different cities, Memphis, New Orleans, Philadelphia,
San Francisco, and of course New York, which everybody knows
New York is going to win. And just whoever gets
the most votes will will say that's the city that
(12:36):
gets the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Yeah, I
get the feeling it was that it was like, Hey,
we know we're gonna put it in New York, but
this will drum up a lot of publicity, get everyone
excited all around the country, even though they're gonna lose.
But I think he underestimated two things, the the passion
of Midwesterners and the pride of Clevelanders, and o'hien's two
(12:59):
put their their city on the map a little bit
more than it even was then. And the disinterest of
your average New Yorker to take place in a poll
or a vote or a petition or a ah to
sign their name on something. Yeah, and don't forget this
was around the time of balloon Fest eight six, so
(13:20):
like Cleveland was really trying. They were trying to find
something that that let the world know Cleveland was great.
So they actually collected six hundred and fifty thousand signatures,
which was more than the population of Cleveland at the time.
They got a lot of people behind this idea. Um,
and I guess USA today ran a pole in January six, right,
(13:40):
and they said, Okay, which are these cities should the
Rock and Wall Hall of Fame be in? That's right,
And I'm sure they had a colorful graph to declare
Cleveland the winner by a landslide a hundred and ten
thousand votes in first place. Second place went to Memphis
was seventy two hundred. So Cleveland they know how to
get people motivated, uh, for civic pride, I will say that, yes.
(14:03):
But the thing that probably really got the Foundation's attention
was that Cleveland also simultaneously raised twenty six million dollars
for the museum to basically say, hey, we're we're quite
serious about this. And it would turn out later that
the whole thing cost about a hundred million, but Cleveland
footed the bill for the whole thing. Yeah, so it
(14:25):
was actually, as we'll see, a pretty good choice. Um.
And finally it was announced that okay, fine, yes it
will be in Cleveland. That's right. But they did not
wait for the building to be built to have their
first Hall of Fame class voted on and inducted. They
did that in New York City, Chuck Berry, James Brown, Ray, Charles,
(14:47):
Sam Cook, Fats Domino, the Everly Brothers, Buddy Holly, Jeley, Lewis, Elvis,
and Little Richard. And then on the non performance idea
had Sam Phillips and Allen Freed. Uh, you had early
influencer is Jimmy Rodgers and Jimmy Yancey. And the lifetime
achievement that year went to John Hammond, who it didn't
look up, but that's got to be the Hammond Organ. Yes, okay. So, um,
(15:13):
there was this great quote that day found that really
kind of got across, Like even at the outset of
the criticism of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame,
it said that, um, rock and roll is now so
middle class, it was accorded to most civilized honor. It
was given a dinner for when writing about the Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame, first class induction in you
(15:35):
know that that reporter was like, right after they type,
I'm so self satisfied, gosh, all right, we're gonna take
a break now and we're gonna talk about the building
itself and how you get in that thing besides paying
money to buy a ticket. Right after this, so Chuck,
(16:15):
everywhere I've read is that you have to show that
you've signed your name in blood in the Book of
Satan to get into the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame and pay thirty dollars, right, is it still thirty bucks.
I didn't look that up. I believe, Yes, I think
that's about right. Yes, And they have different stuff too,
(16:36):
Like like any museum, they'll have temporary exhibits. So if
you've been once, I don't think you can't go again, right,
they'll let you back in, especially if you're willing to
pay another thirty dollars. Yeah, and you'll see new stuff,
but supposedly, um, you should not expect to see everything
in an hour even too, um and really be able
to soak it in. Like I've read that you can
(16:58):
zip through the museum and maybe two and a half hours,
but you're not getting that much out of it. It
depends on how much you want to read the placards
and stare it that Jimi Hendrix is purple haze lyrics. Well. Yeah,
and there's also lots and lots of videos and archival
footage and stuff like that that you can really add
a lot to your visit to to sit and watch
(17:18):
and listen to. That's right. So when they went to
build the building, uh, they enlisted the services of one
I am pay Is it pay or pay pay? I
am pay um, the architect who just happened to design
the expansion of the Louver, which didn't even take that long.
(17:39):
It didn't didn't that the second time I've referenced signed
that same Seinfeld thing in the last few weeks. No,
remember when George pretended to be an architect. Yeah, yeah,
and they said he designed the new thing in the
Googgenheim and he didn't really even take that long. Yeah
I do. I don't remember you referencing it again. I've
referenced it recently. I thought it was to you, but
it's hard to tell real life. I'm totally with you
(18:01):
man these chats these days. But yeah, so he you know,
I am pay had a great resume design that glass
pyramid at the Louver, and uh went to a few
concerts to sort of, you know, get the the gist
of what this whole rock and roll thing was all about. Yeah,
and apparently, um, he was on acid with lou Reid
(18:25):
at the bon Jovis show at the meadow Lands and
when he stood up and he said, I've got it.
Another triangle is what I'm going to do. Another pyramid,
pyramid And he did. It was a it's a pretty
iconic building in and of itself. Um, and the pyramid, though,
if you hear that he also did the pyramid at
the louver, You're like, oh, come on, there's other shapes,
(18:47):
but this one is meant to evoke. Especially if you
look at the logo or the letter head for the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Um, they have a
pyramid in that, and you see very clearly that the
two meant to evoke guitar neck vanishing off into the distance,
like you're looking up the neck of a guitar from
the body. Yeah. I mean, there's a couple of cool
(19:10):
things about it. There's also this central tower and then
in front of it a big sixty five thousand square
foot um circular plaza, and if you look from above, um,
it's really neat. You can look at a picture of
it looks like a record uh. And then on that
plaza there's like the arm of the record player and
the needle uh, and it looks like a turntable, which
is really cool. Yeah, it is very cool. So, and
(19:33):
it's also like it's a very literal building as far
as like what it's supposed to look like goes, But
it's also enormous and very nice. It's one of those
things where if you research the rock and Roll Hall
of Fame. You either come across Cleveland dot Com articles
UM rock music um uh, journalism articles or architectural articles.
(19:55):
Those are the three groups that basically lay claim to
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And You're like,
I'd fly over it, but I'm not going in. It's
not like I wouldn't go in. I don't. I would.
I would go in. I just wouldn't get as much
out of it as you. Okay, all right, we're getting places. Yeah,
it's not like I'm and I certainly don't begrudge anybody going.
I'm I'm just saying I won't get as much out
(20:16):
of it as you will. It's not like I didn't
understand it. I guess what I'm trying to say is,
let me see if I'm even put it in different tips.
I just I just don't care. I know that's not true.
I care. We'll we're gonna crack this code by the end. Okay.
Uh So they broke ground opened in ve with a
(20:39):
six hour concert. I saw seven and a half. Oh
well Springs sign was involved. He did it again? There
it is again? Did he really Dave did? Oh? My gosh,
did David? It's Springsteen. Oh, that's no TYPEO because I
see other ease like his e button isn't broken. It's true,
(21:02):
there's one that comes right before the eye. And Bruce Springstein,
I can't wait to get his email. Uh. So they
have that concert at Cleveland Muni Stadium with Chuck Berry
and who is still around played with Springstein and Johnny
Cash and Johnny Coogs, Aretha al Green, lou Reid. It
(21:22):
was quite an event. Uh. And then I guess we
should talk about how you get in because this is
where it takes on a lot of heat. Um. Some
people say there should be no such thing because rock
and roll shouldn't be in a museum, But then other
people say the like the voting process and the vagueness
(21:43):
of qualifications to be considered are just weird. And it's
a popularity contest, and it's gotten a lot of criticism
over the years because basically, you have to be at
least twenty five years out from your debut album m
and you need to have demonstrated unquestionable musical excellence, which
(22:09):
is not it's not really great guidance, but it is
kind of rock if you think about it, it's kind
of rock and roll to be that way, I think,
you know, Um, but yeah, that definitely is so subjective
that of course it's opened up to you know, accusations
of favoritism, sexism, which which definitely seems to be legit
only eight percent of the inductees and the Rock and
(22:29):
Roll Hall of Fame or women, and there's definitely way
more than eight percent of women rockers or women contributors
to rock and roll. So um, it's not that these
these allegations or suggestions are just totally off base necessarily, Um,
they may be quite accurate. Yeah, I mean, here's my deal.
(22:53):
I kind of think it has to be that vague
because they would they would get probably more complaints if
it was the numbers, if there was an algorithm like
you need to have had this many number one singles
won this Mini Grammys, which are also subjected by the way, Um,
I don't think it can be based on record sales,
like it be weird to design an algorithm. I think
(23:15):
it has to be kind of vague. Uh. To me,
it's a it's an award of longevity in a way, uh,
which I do like because you know, twenty five years on,
unless you died young, you can still get in like
Buddy Holly obviously and people that died young. But you
can't have a record that came out twenty five years
ago and still be a performer who is not very
(23:39):
popular and get in, you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah,
you have to have withstood the test of time. And
it's easy to pooh pooh this stuff. But like, dude,
if there's ever a podcasting Hall of Fame, you bet
your sweet. But I want us to be in there,
you know what I'm saying. Yeah, And We'll be standing
(24:01):
at our our own little display with the microphones and
our headphones. I'll be like, I don't care about the
microphone and our headphone, and every and most people be going,
who are those guys right right now? See that logo?
But who are there? You'll find me hanging out at
the display being like this one's pretty great. Hey, I'm
Josh Clark. It's good to meet you. Thanks for coming.
(24:23):
Uh So, Yeah, the vagaries around induction has definitely been
a criticism. They come up with a staff comes up
with the list of nominees each year. Uh they send
that out to a thousand musicians and members of the
record industry, historians, music historians, and then they vote for
the top picks, and then if you receive at least
(24:45):
of the vote, which is five votes, then you were inducted.
And that's usually between five and seven performers each year, right,
And so the induction process is basically like a museum,
the museum version of the hundred greatest bands of all time,
hundred greatest albums of all time, and all of like
the arguments that that starts. Yeah, that's basically the voting
(25:07):
and induction process every single year. Why is this person
on this list? Why isn't this person on this list?
Why haven't you inducted this person? This doesn't even count
as that kind of music. That is exacts the induction
process every single year, and everybody's right, Yeah, And I
think the Hall of Fame itself is kind of like
(25:27):
I don't think they're trying to solve that anymore. I
think they're just like, yeah, that's just comes with the
territory and stick it in your butt if you don't
like it. Probably the wisest thing they could do is
approach it from that way. There is a fan vote now,
which is great. Um, I don't know if they've always
had it, but you can vote online and pick your
(25:49):
top five, and the winner of the fan vote is
on a fan ballot. And I believe that kind of
change things because you know, bands like Rush in Cheap
Trick finally getting in the last couple of years, there
were a couple of the big ones where people were like,
why are they not in there? Like they might may
not be the most popular band across all demographics, but
(26:11):
like they have some of the most devoted fan bases
and have been doing it for you know, thirty years. Yeah. No,
there's tons and tons of people that you can say, like,
why aren't they in there? Um? Yeah, for sure. But
I don't know that the fan vote is actually having
much of an impact because I saw that it's added
to the other thousand votes, like all of the fant
(26:32):
allies adds up to one extra vote. It's not like
they can vote in people. No. And I learned that
from Dee Snyder, who we were actually on a TV
set with at the same time, the lead singer Twisted Sister.
He yeah, great guy. Um. He was trying to rally
the public to support Iron Maiden this past year, and
(26:53):
Maiden got passed up, which is agreed ridiculous, but apparently
metal acts like just routinely know by the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame so much so that you would
probably be like, what is going on, Why do you
not like metal? Metal is definitely rock and roll for sure. Yeah,
I mean yeah, well, we'll get to more of that later,
because it is very strange that Judas Priest is not
(27:13):
in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Uh. They
also hand out other awards, the Ahmed Urigan Award. Um
it was the Lifetime Achievement award originally in this for
non performers who have had a major influence on the
development of rock and roll. So we're talking, uh, Brian Epstein,
not Brian Epstein. I think it is Epstein. Uh managed
(27:37):
the Beatles, Dick Clark is in lou Adler, Leo Finder,
Phil Specter, people like that. Yeah. There's also the Early
Influence Award, which is basically like, you're not rock and roll,
but you definitely influenced a lot of people who play
rock and roll, So people get inducted in that way,
like Woody Guthrie definitely not a rocker, but he certainly did,
(27:59):
um he influence like Bob Dylan, who's considered a rocker,
you know what I mean. So, yeah, it's a good
way to get in is to just travel in time,
release a bunch of records in the nineteen twenties and
sit back and wait for your induction after your long day. Uh.
Louis Armstrong, Billy Holliday, Robert Johnson, our own les Paul,
aren't less Paul like we own him. He's with us. Uh.
(28:20):
Then there's the Award for Musical Excellent. This is the
artist of musicians and songwriters and producers who was originality
and influenced creating music have had a dramatic impact. Only
twenty two. They don't do this every year. Um Ringo
star Leon Russell, now Rogers the Street Band without Bruce Springstein.
Nile Rogers is in there. He was. I was reading
(28:42):
about him. He's had one of the most amazing careers
of all time. Yeah yeah, I mean if he just
did Chic alone, that would be fine. Yep, But he's
got you know. That was just a small part of
his career. Yes it was. I mean the most recent
thing he did was win three Grammys for working with
Daft Punk on their most recent album, I guess their
last album, There You go. So, there's some things about
(29:05):
being inducted um that are kind of anomalous and interesting
in in that like you can be inducted more than
once in different capacities, right, yeah, yeah, if you're a
solo performer and you're in a band like Stevie Nicks
is the only woman to be inducted two times as
a solo performer and is a member of Fleetwood Back. No, Tina,
Tina was inducted twice, and so is Carol King. Well,
(29:29):
they are being inducted this year, so technically I got
two more weeks before us. I should have known better, Chuck,
I'm sorry. I think October thirty is so. Carol King
was in there as a songwriter, I guess, yeah, I
believe so. And Tina with with Nina, Yeah, I had
to be yes. Can you believe it they inducted her
with Ike before they inducted her as their solo career.
(29:52):
Give me a break. I believe that chronologically, But it
doesn't have to go chronic chronologically. It says nothing about
chronological order. But we'll let me ask you this. When
you think Tina Turner, do you think rolling on the
river or do you think private dancer private, okay, you
think sexy, sweaty saxophone. Yes, solos, yes, totally, alright, fair enough,
(30:15):
I'm thinking about one right now, which is why she's
in there twice. Eric Clapton's in there three times, not once,
not twice, but thrice obviously, Yardbirds Cream and it's a
solo guy. All the Beatles are in twice. Yeah, all
it's they're the only band all inducted as solo artists. Yeah.
I can't think of another band that might hit that mark.
(30:37):
Um um. I can't either, because not many people are
going to be just as big as a solo performer. No,
it's very rare, for sure. Um. And I think it's
nice that they gave Ringo his own two in two
thousand seventeen. That was great. That was a very nice ceremony.
I watched it every year, the ceremonies. Oh sure, I
love it. It's it's fun because you know they induct
(31:01):
the people. Someone who loves that person is inducting them,
so that's always great. And it's always you know, like, uh,
somebody might not expect like Harry Styles inducted Stevie Nicks
and like I didn't even know Harry styles like Stevie Nicks.
In turns out he loves Stevie Nicks. So it's stuff
like that. And then they give their speech which is
great or a complete uh disaster, which is also fun.
(31:25):
So this is from Amanda Patrucius Patrucius, sorry, Amanda um
from the New Yorker back in two thousand seventeen, and
she said, the televised ceremony proceeded about is expected. Gentlemen
with exacting hairstyles, wore sunglasses inside, hugged each other reluctantly,
and squinted at a teleprompter. Was like, he just took
(31:48):
me there to the induction. Well, what's funny is some
of these some of the speeches are really nice and awesome. Uh,
and then some of them are uh. Some people are
like up there with bands that they broke up with
and like they hated each other. Yeah, Like, oh my god,
have you seen the acceptance speech for Blondie? I know
I saw it live, but I don't remember what was
(32:09):
What would happen? Blondie wouldn't let like three or four
of the original members play at the ceremony. Debbie Harry
wouldn't know, yes, sorry, Debbie Harry would not and one
of the original guys begged her on the microphone during
his speech, and she said no and kept saying no.
It was like no, we're not no, you're not playing tonight,
and um, it was really deeply uncomfortable. Fifteen years later
(32:34):
watching it on YouTube, I was like, I'm gonna throw up.
I'm so so uncomfortable right now. Well, you know, sometimes
people don't show up, like Paul McCartney didn't show up
for the Beatles induction because supposedly he was in a
lawsuit at the time with Yoko and Ringo about something. Um,
the Talking Heads managed to get together and play together,
(32:54):
like that's the other thing, you know, that's where I
was headed. You have your speech and then you play together,
usually as the original band. Sometimes if it's like like
a journey, you know, Steve Perry didn't sing, but he
gave his blessing for the new guy to sing. Sometimes
they'll have both, like you know, Guns and Roses will
have the two drummers there and they'll take turns Axel
(33:17):
wasn't there, you know, not mid song. Uh. And then
sometimes people can't get it together at all and they're
just like, no, we hate each other. We're not playing,
we're not showing up. Um. Sometimes Mike Love will get
up there as a member of the Beach Boys and
be a crazy freak. Uh just watch his speech if
you want to see something very deeply uncomfortable. I can't.
(33:39):
He like flat out challenged people on stage. He just
got really salty, like halfway through and he's like, I'd
love to see I'd love to see the mop Tops
the Beatles get up and do a hundred and eighties
shows a year, or I'd like to see Mick Jagger
get up on stage and do what I do. And
it was just and he's a legendary jerk, but it
was it was really something else he does not live
(34:00):
up to. But to me, that's sort of the fun
of watching the ceremony is all these really deeply personal
relationships of these people that are suddenly thrust back together. Uh,
and do they work it out and are they amicable
and cool or not? Bunny Carlos played with cheap Trick,
which is cool, they're drummer that left um. But sometimes
(34:21):
like Axel Rose in a full on legally statement that
not only didn't say like I don't want to come,
but he was like, no one is allowed to induct me.
No one is allowed to speak for me. I think
we have to read it. Chuck, Yeah, read it. It's
pretty graty. This was from Axel Rose. I strongly request
that I not be inducted in absentia, and please know
that no one is authorized, nor may anyone be permitted
(34:44):
to accept any induction for me or speak on my behalf.
Neither former members, label representatives, nor the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame should imply, whether directly, indirectly or biomission,
that I am included in any purported induction of Guns
and Roses. Oh man, he really did want to take part,
and yet they got back together and they're playing again
(35:05):
and seemingly enjoying themselves. What's his problem with Guns and Roses?
I mean, I knew they broke up or whatever, but
why does he like hate Slash or what's the problem?
Oh yeah, he and Slash had problems, and I don't
know they worked it all out, but they hugged it out.
Who knows what goes on behind these closed green room doors?
You know? Wasn't that the song No One Knows what
(35:29):
goes on behind green rooms doors? I think? Is that
a bob Seekers song. I think so maybe we should
take a break. All right, let's do that. All right,
We'll be right back and we're gonna wrap this thing up,
(35:58):
all right. Should we talk about some of the famous snubs? Yes, definitely,
we can just do that for the rest of the show. Well,
I mean, I'm looking at the list. I'm gonna go
ahead and throw out Alison Chains and Big Star, like
throw them out like you don't include them, throw them
out like they should be in and they're not. How
about wait for this one, Uh, Dick Dale, that's just nuts.
(36:24):
That's we talked about that in the Gibson Fender episode.
How about the Smiths or m C five, I know,
I mean, it gets, it gets weird. It's like, who'sker
do to me? Belongs in there? But like they were
a very small band in excess was a huge band.
Jane's addictions not in the Jane's addiction not being in
(36:44):
there's pretty surprising and just objectively wrong for sure. I
totally agree. Uh Motorhead, well, Motley Crue, it gets. It's
so subjective, it gets so weird because people poo poo
stuff like disco and they poopoo stuff like uh like
Ozzy Osbourne or metal like he should be in there,
(37:05):
Yeah for sure. But that's I mean, that's that kind
of gets at the heart of why a lot of
people are like, wait a minute, what's going on here? Um,
Because like hip hop acts have started to be inducted
into it starting in two thousand and seventeen, UM or
two thousand seven, I'm sorry with Grandmaster Flash in the
Furious five. I think one of the most recent one
(37:27):
was jay Z and is that right? And we said
earlier that it hadn't happened yet by the time this
is out, it will have already. Okay, so this year
part of this class, Okay, Tupac got inducted. I think,
what do you what do you think about that? One?
More Failakuti was nominated this year, but he didn't make it.
So there's this guy that um Dave turned up that
(37:52):
I think makes a really great case. His name is
Troy L. Smith. He works for Cleveland dot Com, one
of the triumvirate of writing about the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame and um. He says, look, man, if
you are talking about rock and roll, of course it
would include hip hop just as much as it would
include like alternative or new wave or punk, like they're
(38:12):
all branching off the same tree. Because if rock and
roll is the trunk, if you go a little further down,
the roots of that tree are like blues, jazz, gospel,
boogie woogie do walk, like all this stuff combined to
make rock and roll. And if you're saying like rock
and roll is just a white guy with a guitar
somewhere between nineteen sixty seven and nineteen nine, you're talking
(38:36):
specifically about rock, and that's actually different than rock and roll.
And this isn't the rock Hall of Fame. This is
the rock and roll Hall of Fame. So yeah, you
could make a really strong case to include not just
hip hop but also like R and b um world
music like Failey, Cooties, afrobeats, stuff like, like all these
(38:58):
people were influenced by the same tree. And that's what
Troy Smith is seen. And I gotta say I agree
with them on that one. I just have mixed feelings.
I do agree, but it's um. Then just call it
the Music Hall of Fame, maybe because it's some people.
It's weird that like Willie Nelson's not in there, but
like another country artist might be like Williams is in there,
(39:20):
Johnny Cash. Yeah, like they'll include jazz and now hip hop,
but like not metal. It's just I don't know, man,
that it starts to sort of fall apart in a
way the more you expand it. Because there is a
country music Hall of Fame that there's probably I don't
know if there's a jazz hall of Fame is there somewhere?
I mean like like should everyone have their own hall
(39:41):
of fame like every genre? But then where do you stop?
Is it like is new way the genre like it is?
But is it under the more all inclusive banner of
rock and roll? It just it gets really like a
cat chasing its own tail at some point. So there
was this kind of Twitter just Russian, which means a
flame war between ice Cube and Gene Simmons from Kiss
(40:05):
when n w A was being abducted. Gene Simmons was
pooh pooing the whole thing and ice Cube was defending it,
and ice Cube had a pretty good point. He said, Um,
the question is are we rock and roll? Rock and
roll is not an instrument. Rock and roll is not
even a style of music. Rock and roll is a spirit.
It's not conforming, it's outside the box. And then he
(40:25):
finishes with rock and rolls in w A, which I
could not have read that more squarely than I did.
But if you go a little further and read Gene
Simmons is retort too. He's saying, like, yes, he's criticizing
hip hop is not like actual music because they sample
and they talk, rather than saying so therefore it's not rock.
I disagree with that. But he also says, I'll tell
you what, when led Zeppelin gets inducted into the Rap
(40:48):
Hall of Fame, then you will have proven your point.
And he makes a good case in that situation as well.
But it kind of dove tails in with your idea,
like should each of them, each genre of music have
its own hall of Fame? I don't think so. I
think the rock and roll Hall of Fame is a
wide enough umbrella that it includes hip hop and other
stuff that's not rock. Yeah, that's not a great look
(41:12):
to say stuff like that either, though, No, I know,
and like like you know, of course there's allegations of
racism and sexism and and um homophobism is that a word? Sure? Umho?
I think of course, dude, of course, But Um, Amanda, Patricia,
I'm sorry, Amanda. Um. She says that. Um. She points out,
(41:35):
like how much this this ties into that same hatred
of disco by the same people who are into rock.
But at the time when rock was new, these are
the same people who never aged out of that. It's
all rock. It's all white guy with the guitar from
nine six seven, and that's rock, and that's rock and roll.
(41:55):
And that's just not true. That's a type of rock
and roll. That's not the all and I'll be all
of rock and roll. Yes, that's my take on it.
I'll stop saying it. I know I've said it at
least twice now, but it's just so true it is. Uh.
He saw who was coming in this year. I thought
that might get you excited. Who. Well, in the in
(42:16):
the performer it's Tina Turner, Carol King, the go Goes Amazing,
jay Z Foo Fighters, and Todd Rundgren. But the Early
Influence Award, my friend craft work. Oh really they're getting
in Huh, they're getting in his early influence along with
Charlie Patton and uh and legendary jazz poet Gil Scott Heron,
who I totally think Whyatt's Senac should play in a biopic.
(42:42):
Oh yeah, you mean a biopic. In a biopic, I
think why it would crush that role. And I think
I've even told him that. Oh yeah, what was his response?
I don't think I've told him that, because he would
probably be like, I don't need career advice from me.
But that's right, zip it why it's famous for saying
Musical Excellent Award this year is local j Billy Preston
(43:03):
and Randy Rhodes, not bad. Ozzy's not even in there.
And then Clarence Avant is getting the Ahmet Ernigan Award,
and I don't know who that is, and I feel
like I should. I don't either, So so Chuck, they
have um purple haze lyrics. I think we've established that
multiple times. What else do they have at the Rock
(43:23):
and Hall of Fame that would be worth paying thirty
dollars to go see? By the way, Clarence uh Avant
is known as the Black Godfather, entrepreneur, executive and film
producer and American music executive. So I gotta shout him out.
You know, they got they got the instruments, they got
the out, they got a whole room of clothing and
(43:44):
legendary outfits. Uh, they have the handwritten lyrics, They have
archival like original master tapes where in listening rooms. They
have this really cool thing now that just opened a
couple of years ago called the Garage, where it's literally
like a garage just set up with a full band
and you can go in there. You don't have to
know what you're doing, and they'll try and teach you
(44:04):
how to play instruments. I just want to wash your
hands afterwards. Yeah, well you do now for sure, and
you're like or always um and you know, they have
a great music education program with working with the schools
in Ohio and in Cleveland, so like, like they do
a lot of cool outreach and hands on stuff to
get people involved. And if you go to the garage
(44:26):
the website for the garage and you see like these,
you know sort of people you who can tell have
never picked up an instrument before playing the drums or
playing the bass just a little bit, and like the
delight on their faces. It's pretty cool. That's where the
museum staff who transgressed are punished. They have to go
hang out at the garage and watch that. Oh you
(44:48):
get this now they're teaching them the teachers I got. Well.
The only other thing I want to point out is
the if you're looking for highlights from over the years,
that you know, in the end, they had this all
Star jam where a bunch of people come on stage
and play some songs, and I think probably the most
(45:08):
legendary moment that's ever happened, and it was passed along.
Uh more recently after his death was that George Harrison's
posthumous induction and all Star jam. They were playing while
my guitar gently weeps and prints, comes out of the
shadows and destroys the stage with a guitar solo that
like is unlike anything I've ever seen. It's amazing, and
(45:31):
he's just the coolest dude on the planet. He finishes
his solo, takes his guitar up and throws it up
in the air, and there's, uh, you don't know this,
but his guys out there to catch the guitar. But
and he struts off stage and Tom Petty's and Jeff
Lynn are just standing there like and Danny Harrison like,
oh my god, what just happened. That's pretty cool, man,
It's amazing. Um, so one long and last thing that
(45:51):
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame tried to expand
they finally tried to open something in New York and
they did, uh and I think um two thousand eight. Yes,
So they finally got that New York outpost, right, chuck,
And then within two years it was closed, And they
tried another one in Tokyo in two thousand and seventeen.
(46:12):
It closed in five months later, and Dave Rouse nails
it with this last line. I guess Cleveland really was
the right choice after all, wink emoji. Yeah. I mean
they need to keep expanding Cleveland because you've only got
so much space, you know, Yeah, for sure, but I mean,
like it's that was the place to do it. It
turns out that that was absolutely correct, So that's good.
(46:34):
Sometimes big decisions don't always work out, and this was
one that did. And by God, God bless you, Cleveland.
We gotta get Jane's addiction in there, sure. I think
we also really even more so, maybe need to get
like Iron Maiden in there or Judas Priests or both.
James was nominated once, uh and didn't get in the
(46:55):
war has been nominated three times and hasn't gotten And
I don't. That's oh no, no, no, no. Chic has
been nominated eleven times and hasn't gotten in that just
because it's disco, that is ridiculous. I saw I read
an article making the case for weird Al, but then
also saying why weird Al will never make it in
because he makes seventeen years uh snubbed, never nominated. Maybe
(47:22):
someday weird Al. But I also get the impression weird
Al doesn't care. Yeah, well maybe he does steep down. No,
I don't think so. Okay. Um, since we said weird
Al doesn't care, obviously, that means that it is time
for a listener. Now. Uh, let me see here, which
(47:43):
one should I read? I'm gonna call this lemon song. Um,
every morning is to get ready for work. Guys, I
like to throw on an episode of stuff. You should know.
The excitement that came over me this morning and to
my favorite things briefly combined into one is indescribable. Josh's
mix up on the lemons and gave me a good chuckle,
only because Squeeze my Lemon is of course from the
(48:03):
women song, and I can only guess that the song
about friendship that he's speaking about is the song friends
on led Zeppelin three maybe Uh. As soon as I
heard the beginning of the episode toquinently send quickly sent
a text over to my dad. He's the reason I'm
such a big Zeppelin fan. We both got matching Zeppelin
tattoos when I graduated from college, and I am the
(48:25):
reason he is a Stuff you Should Know fan. While
we don't live close, I'm in Denver and he's in Phoenix,
a small moment like this is something that gave us
both a good laugh and a reason to chat this morning.
And that is from Lauren and Denver. Nice Lauren, thank
you very much for that. We love bringing families together,
don't we chuck and splitting them apart in evil Factory.
(48:47):
If you want to let us not how we brought
your family together or split you asunder uh, you can
email it to us to stuff podcast at iHeart radio
dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of
I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit
the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows. H
Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I
Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.
There's Charles w Lix Bryant and Jerry's over there, and
(00:22):
this is stuff you should know. The Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame edition Tata or as was it Skinner
that said rock and or Rolling? Yes, it was. It's
a good one. I'm glad you said that, because every
time we walk past something one of the Simpsons characters
said and their nine hundred million seasons, somebody writes and
(00:45):
it's like, how could you possibly not say this? You dummies?
Remember that time we got to go to a Simpson's
table read probably second or third best day of either
one of our lives. Yes, absolutely, that's always what I
respond back with. I was like, oh, I'm sorry. Were
you at the table Marie we were at when we
met Matt Graening and he drew Simpsons characters on our
autograph scripts, which I still have. I don't. I don't
(01:07):
know if you still have yours. I still have mine, Kidney. Yes,
I am kidding you. I can know I tossed it.
So you're like, I don't have room for this. Yeah. Um,
so Chuck, we are talking about the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame today. We've already talked about the Simpsons
on an official episode before too of them. Actually, this
one's a little different. This is about rock and roll,
(01:28):
the musical genre, which is way more encompassing than a
lot of people would like to admit. It turns out. Yeah,
we'll get into that. There's a lot there, We definitely will.
I it smacks a lot of our remember our disco episode. Yeah,
smacks a lot of that. And I now we've talked
about this. I don't think you've been. Have you to
(01:49):
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? No? I haven't. Actually,
I'm sorry, Cleveland. I'm sorry, but I settled down. I
have not. I have not been yet now, and I
actually have to say, I don't know that I care to.
I know that there are plenty of people out there
who love would love to go to that and should,
(02:10):
But for me personally, I just I don't care. Yeah,
it's not your kind of place. Really, No, it's not.
It's not meant for losers like me. No, I don't
think that's it. It's it's meant for losers like me.
I went, you know, my family or Emily's families from Akron,
and so we when they were all living there, we
(02:31):
spent Christmas Is there and other holidays there. So we
did all the Cleveland things and this was one of them.
And um, definitely, it's definitely one of the Cleveland things
to do. For sure. It's one of the Cleveland things. Um,
it's a place that I want to go back to.
I love this in the in the museum in Seattle,
like the pop Culture Museum. I can't remember what it's called.
(02:51):
What's called the Museum of Popular Culture? Awesome? Yeah, and
there's but there's more and then they name. But I
love standing and looking at uh, the the original pad
of paper where the original lyrics to Purple Hazer written.
(03:13):
See that's what I'm saying. I like listening to Purple
I couldn't it was originally written on Like I get
what people are getting out of this. It just doesn't
hit me that way, No, I hear you. I had
a bunch of other things I was gonna say I love,
But are you gonna say you don't love them? After
every one of them? Let's let's find out. I love
looking at the outfit that Bruce Springsteen were on the
(03:33):
board in the USA cover right in front of me.
I love looking it. I could see how you would
like that. I don't care about that outfit. I love
standing in front of Prince's tiny little purple jumpsuit, cool
guitar or Mick Jaggers Uh tiny little ten year old
boy sized jeans leather pants so small. They're also small.
(03:57):
I thought Mick Jagger was, you know, not point size.
Really Okay, I knew Prince was small, but I didn't
know that Mick Jagger was as well. That's and we've
talked about this. That's why they learned to be musicians,
because they can't they're trying to get girls. Well, Prince
was a great basketball player too. I don't know about
Mick Jagger, but he was show Yes, it's true, so
(04:20):
that he played basketball in high school too. Oh man, yeah, no,
he for his size, he was a good athlete, I think.
But uh, the point is, I really really love seeing
that stuff in Seattle. I love seeing Kurt Cobain striped
sweater from the video and the broken drumsticks of Dave
Grohl and and Chris Cornell's Gibson guitar. Like I loved
(04:41):
knowing that that's and this is not just rock and
roll memorabilia. Like I like any museum where I'm like, oh,
that's the real thing. That's the Declaration of Independence I'm
looking at. It's not a copy, that's the one. Um.
I really get a lot out of seeing the thing
in person, and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
has a lot of things to look at in person.
(05:03):
So I don't want to come off like some rube
who doesn't care about museums. Like I care deeply about museums.
It's just some like pop culture memorabilia doesn't do it.
It's as simple as that. I think we've established that, Okay,
but I just do. A lot of people would be
like joshly and like museums would have dummy. No, we
know you like museums. You got engaged in a museum.
You like museums so much. That's absolutely true. Thanks for that.
(05:26):
I appreciate the backup, chuck. Yeah, and you like like
you'll see uh uh the Scream and a million art
websites and art history books. But to stand in front
of the screen is a different thing because it's the
real thing. All right, let's talk about the Rock and
Roll Hall of fame itself. Shall we Yes? I think
(05:47):
we should start talking first about this because this really
kind of summarizes a lot of some people hate the
rock and Roll Hall of Fame, not just because they're
not into pop culture museums, but they hate the idea
and they think it the least rock and thing you
can do is vote people into a Hall of Fame, Yeah,
which is a real criticism of it. And it's really
something that um, from what I've read, the rock and
(06:08):
Roll Hall of Fame, this the rock hall. The people
who are in the know, um have has never fully
figured out how to how to deal with that paradox,
because it is a paradox, like to take like what
is rock and roll, which is you know, like in
your face, your parents hate it. Um, It's it's like
it doesn't follow the rules, and then just like put
(06:30):
it behind incredibly expensive like recessed lighting with and protecting
it with plexiglass at all that that is the opposite
of that, and they've just they just had to move
forward as a paradox basically. Yeah. And I should point
out too that my love for this stuff is like
it doesn't have to be behind glass, Like I love
(06:52):
being and I'm going to Woodstock, New York in November.
I'm gonna drive by Big Pink, where Bob Dylan and
the band lived. And I like being at the places
is where the things really existed. There's an energy to it.
I think, I get why you're going to drive by
that house, but I don't care about that. You gotta stop.
But this all comes back to Johnny Rotten, Uh, the
(07:15):
leader of the Sex Pistols. They were inducted. He wrote, uh,
scribbled out on a piece of paper. Didn't go obviously,
and he said, next to the Sex Pistols, rock and
roll and that Hall of Fame is a pis stain
your museum, urine in wine. We're not coming, We're not
your monkeys. And so what that was it was a
(07:36):
great read. So that's sort of the thing though, That
is how some people feel. But to me, the Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame is rock and roll because
they read that on stage rather than just burying it,
you know what I mean, Like that's rock and roll, ye,
And I mean it's had such an enormous impact on
world culture, on human culture that like, of course it
(07:57):
deserves a museum. And then if you're gonna do like
a world class museum. There's just certain things you have
to do, and yes, that doesn't fit with rock and roll,
but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't have a rock
and roll museum. It's just like, yeah, we took this
rock and roll stuff and put it under plexiglass, and
that's just what you do when you create a museum.
That's right. Uh, But we'll talk about more of that
(08:17):
stuff later. But let's talk about the history, shall we. Yeah,
because the whole thing opened up on September, but it
had been brewing since the early eighties. I think thanks
to a dude named Ama aired again er Errigen. I
think it's air again. I got it the first time
and then I doubted myself, but I still got it.
(08:39):
That's the point, that's right. So air Again was the
co founder of Atlantic Records, UM the biggest name in
records in sort of at a certain time. And there
it's a yeah, a couple of certain times. He was
the son of a um, a Turkish ambassador, but love music. Uh.
(09:00):
Co founded Atlantic and with Jerry Wexler and started out
in the R and B game. Yeah, did they signed
the Drifters, Ray Charles Aretha Franklin, all of whom were
like unknown at the time. So that alone is like
worth celebrating, Like that's an amazing record label just to start.
And then in the sixties they shifted over to rock
(09:22):
um and signed Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones and Cream
and UM. So just these two incarnations over two decades,
Um kind of put Atlantic on the map. I think,
like you said, it kept going right, Like, is is
Atlantic still around? Oh? It's got to be. I mean
it's probably owned by Disney or something, but sure, sure,
(09:42):
but it's a storied record label and for good reason,
that's right. And so he first hatched the idea of
having a museum and a rock and roll Hall of Fame,
and he was like, well, of course it will be
in New York City, because that's just where you do it.
What he didn't know was that, uh, there were these
businessmen in Cleveland, Ohio that we're already planning their own
(10:05):
rock and roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland. Yes, And
when uh Amma Urdigens heard that, he shuddered. I was like,
all right, why Cleveland? And I said, well, hold on,
Like Cleveland actually has a lot of claim to rock
and roll cred for one the local DJ. Allen Freed
is widely considered as the person who coined the term
(10:28):
rock and roll. That guy came up with it and
he was at Cleveland DJ and Eric Agan said, Okay,
I'm listening. What else you got? And he said, well,
you know it was a very the radio station. Uh
w j W that Freed DJ. Dat broke a lot
of big acts. You kind of had to make it
in Cleveland. Not had to, but making in Cleveland could
(10:50):
break you. David Bowie was broke there Rush and we
gotta thank Dave Rouse for putting this together. And I
also want to thank Dave Russe for saying Bruce Springstein. Yeah,
I noticed that. Now. I know it's a type of
Dave and you're listening, but it was fun to read
He's like, no, I mean the much less known bring
(11:10):
Bruce Springstein. Uh. Joe Walsh is from Cleveland. Trin resumes
from Cleveland, Ohio. You know I've talked about before in
Emily's hometown of Akron, her high school, Firestone is where
Devo was from. And Chrissy Hynes keys, Yeah, like that's
a heck of a roster to come out of a
single high school. Yes, plus also like um, even back
(11:33):
long before Divo was around, that same guy Alan Freed,
the DJ he uh, He organized and hosted what's also
considered the first rock and roll show, the Moondog Coronation Ball,
way back in nineteen two. So, and we've talked about
it before. I could not figure out what we've talked
(11:53):
about the Coronation Ball. Yeah, because we've we've definitely covered it.
I'm almost positive anyway. Yes, So Eveland has like some
rock and roll credit, so it would make sense that
they would be considering rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
And it would also make sense that Eric again and
and the rest of the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame Foundation said Okay, well we'll think about this. They
(12:14):
were skeptical at first, but then they said, how about this.
We'll open this whole thing up to voting is to
where the site should be. UM, and we'll say Cleveland's
one of a number of different cities, Memphis, New Orleans, Philadelphia,
San Francisco, and of course New York, which everybody knows
New York is going to win. And just whoever gets
the most votes will will say that's the city that
(12:36):
gets the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Yeah, I
get the feeling it was that it was like, Hey,
we know we're gonna put it in New York, but
this will drum up a lot of publicity, get everyone
excited all around the country, even though they're gonna lose.
But I think he underestimated two things, the the passion
of Midwesterners and the pride of Clevelanders, and o'hien's two
(12:59):
put their their city on the map a little bit
more than it even was then. And the disinterest of
your average New Yorker to take place in a poll
or a vote or a petition or a ah to
sign their name on something. Yeah, and don't forget this
was around the time of balloon Fest eight six, so
(13:20):
like Cleveland was really trying. They were trying to find
something that that let the world know Cleveland was great.
So they actually collected six hundred and fifty thousand signatures,
which was more than the population of Cleveland at the time.
They got a lot of people behind this idea. Um,
and I guess USA today ran a pole in January six, right,
(13:40):
and they said, Okay, which are these cities should the
Rock and Wall Hall of Fame be in? That's right,
And I'm sure they had a colorful graph to declare
Cleveland the winner by a landslide a hundred and ten
thousand votes in first place. Second place went to Memphis
was seventy two hundred. So Cleveland they know how to
get people motivated, uh, for civic pride, I will say that, yes.
(14:03):
But the thing that probably really got the Foundation's attention
was that Cleveland also simultaneously raised twenty six million dollars
for the museum to basically say, hey, we're we're quite
serious about this. And it would turn out later that
the whole thing cost about a hundred million, but Cleveland
footed the bill for the whole thing. Yeah, so it
(14:25):
was actually, as we'll see, a pretty good choice. Um.
And finally it was announced that okay, fine, yes it
will be in Cleveland. That's right. But they did not
wait for the building to be built to have their
first Hall of Fame class voted on and inducted. They
did that in New York City, Chuck Berry, James Brown, Ray, Charles,
(14:47):
Sam Cook, Fats Domino, the Everly Brothers, Buddy Holly, Jeley, Lewis, Elvis,
and Little Richard. And then on the non performance idea
had Sam Phillips and Allen Freed. Uh, you had early
influencer is Jimmy Rodgers and Jimmy Yancey. And the lifetime
achievement that year went to John Hammond, who it didn't
look up, but that's got to be the Hammond Organ. Yes, okay. So, um,
(15:13):
there was this great quote that day found that really
kind of got across, Like even at the outset of
the criticism of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame,
it said that, um, rock and roll is now so
middle class, it was accorded to most civilized honor. It
was given a dinner for when writing about the Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame, first class induction in you
(15:35):
know that that reporter was like, right after they type,
I'm so self satisfied, gosh, all right, we're gonna take
a break now and we're gonna talk about the building
itself and how you get in that thing besides paying
money to buy a ticket. Right after this, so Chuck,
(16:15):
everywhere I've read is that you have to show that
you've signed your name in blood in the Book of
Satan to get into the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame and pay thirty dollars, right, is it still thirty bucks.
I didn't look that up. I believe, Yes, I think
that's about right. Yes, And they have different stuff too,
(16:36):
Like like any museum, they'll have temporary exhibits. So if
you've been once, I don't think you can't go again, right,
they'll let you back in, especially if you're willing to
pay another thirty dollars. Yeah, and you'll see new stuff,
but supposedly, um, you should not expect to see everything
in an hour even too, um and really be able
to soak it in. Like I've read that you can
(16:58):
zip through the museum and maybe two and a half hours,
but you're not getting that much out of it. It
depends on how much you want to read the placards
and stare it that Jimi Hendrix is purple haze lyrics. Well. Yeah,
and there's also lots and lots of videos and archival
footage and stuff like that that you can really add
a lot to your visit to to sit and watch
(17:18):
and listen to. That's right. So when they went to
build the building, uh, they enlisted the services of one
I am pay Is it pay or pay pay? I
am pay um, the architect who just happened to design
the expansion of the Louver, which didn't even take that long.
(17:39):
It didn't didn't that the second time I've referenced signed
that same Seinfeld thing in the last few weeks. No,
remember when George pretended to be an architect. Yeah, yeah,
and they said he designed the new thing in the
Googgenheim and he didn't really even take that long. Yeah
I do. I don't remember you referencing it again. I've
referenced it recently. I thought it was to you, but
it's hard to tell real life. I'm totally with you
(18:01):
man these chats these days. But yeah, so he you know,
I am pay had a great resume design that glass
pyramid at the Louver, and uh went to a few
concerts to sort of, you know, get the the gist
of what this whole rock and roll thing was all about. Yeah,
and apparently, um, he was on acid with lou Reid
(18:25):
at the bon Jovis show at the meadow Lands and
when he stood up and he said, I've got it.
Another triangle is what I'm going to do. Another pyramid,
pyramid And he did. It was a it's a pretty
iconic building in and of itself. Um, and the pyramid, though,
if you hear that he also did the pyramid at
the louver, You're like, oh, come on, there's other shapes,
(18:47):
but this one is meant to evoke. Especially if you
look at the logo or the letter head for the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Um, they have a
pyramid in that, and you see very clearly that the
two meant to evoke guitar neck vanishing off into the distance,
like you're looking up the neck of a guitar from
the body. Yeah. I mean, there's a couple of cool
(19:10):
things about it. There's also this central tower and then
in front of it a big sixty five thousand square
foot um circular plaza, and if you look from above, um,
it's really neat. You can look at a picture of
it looks like a record uh. And then on that
plaza there's like the arm of the record player and
the needle uh, and it looks like a turntable, which
is really cool. Yeah, it is very cool. So, and
(19:33):
it's also like it's a very literal building as far
as like what it's supposed to look like goes, But
it's also enormous and very nice. It's one of those
things where if you research the rock and Roll Hall
of Fame. You either come across Cleveland dot Com articles
UM rock music um uh, journalism articles or architectural articles.
(19:55):
Those are the three groups that basically lay claim to
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And You're like,
I'd fly over it, but I'm not going in. It's
not like I wouldn't go in. I don't. I would.
I would go in. I just wouldn't get as much
out of it as you. Okay, all right, we're getting places. Yeah,
it's not like I'm and I certainly don't begrudge anybody going.
I'm I'm just saying I won't get as much out
(20:16):
of it as you will. It's not like I didn't
understand it. I guess what I'm trying to say is,
let me see if I'm even put it in different tips.
I just I just don't care. I know that's not true.
I care. We'll we're gonna crack this code by the end. Okay.
Uh So they broke ground opened in ve with a
(20:39):
six hour concert. I saw seven and a half. Oh
well Springs sign was involved. He did it again? There
it is again? Did he really Dave did? Oh? My gosh,
did David? It's Springsteen. Oh, that's no TYPEO because I
see other ease like his e button isn't broken. It's true,
(21:02):
there's one that comes right before the eye. And Bruce Springstein,
I can't wait to get his email. Uh. So they
have that concert at Cleveland Muni Stadium with Chuck Berry
and who is still around played with Springstein and Johnny
Cash and Johnny Coogs, Aretha al Green, lou Reid. It
(21:22):
was quite an event. Uh. And then I guess we
should talk about how you get in because this is
where it takes on a lot of heat. Um. Some
people say there should be no such thing because rock
and roll shouldn't be in a museum, But then other
people say the like the voting process and the vagueness
(21:43):
of qualifications to be considered are just weird. And it's
a popularity contest, and it's gotten a lot of criticism
over the years because basically, you have to be at
least twenty five years out from your debut album m
and you need to have demonstrated unquestionable musical excellence, which
(22:09):
is not it's not really great guidance, but it is
kind of rock if you think about it, it's kind
of rock and roll to be that way, I think,
you know, Um, but yeah, that definitely is so subjective
that of course it's opened up to you know, accusations
of favoritism, sexism, which which definitely seems to be legit
only eight percent of the inductees and the Rock and
(22:29):
Roll Hall of Fame or women, and there's definitely way
more than eight percent of women rockers or women contributors
to rock and roll. So um, it's not that these
these allegations or suggestions are just totally off base necessarily, Um,
they may be quite accurate. Yeah, I mean, here's my deal.
(22:53):
I kind of think it has to be that vague
because they would they would get probably more complaints if
it was the numbers, if there was an algorithm like
you need to have had this many number one singles
won this Mini Grammys, which are also subjected by the way, Um,
I don't think it can be based on record sales,
like it be weird to design an algorithm. I think
(23:15):
it has to be kind of vague. Uh. To me,
it's a it's an award of longevity in a way, uh,
which I do like because you know, twenty five years on,
unless you died young, you can still get in like
Buddy Holly obviously and people that died young. But you
can't have a record that came out twenty five years
ago and still be a performer who is not very
(23:39):
popular and get in, you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah,
you have to have withstood the test of time. And
it's easy to pooh pooh this stuff. But like, dude,
if there's ever a podcasting Hall of Fame, you bet
your sweet. But I want us to be in there,
you know what I'm saying. Yeah, And We'll be standing
(24:01):
at our our own little display with the microphones and
our headphones. I'll be like, I don't care about the
microphone and our headphone, and every and most people be going,
who are those guys right right now? See that logo?
But who are there? You'll find me hanging out at
the display being like this one's pretty great. Hey, I'm
Josh Clark. It's good to meet you. Thanks for coming.
(24:23):
Uh So, Yeah, the vagaries around induction has definitely been
a criticism. They come up with a staff comes up
with the list of nominees each year. Uh they send
that out to a thousand musicians and members of the
record industry, historians, music historians, and then they vote for
the top picks, and then if you receive at least
(24:45):
of the vote, which is five votes, then you were inducted.
And that's usually between five and seven performers each year, right,
And so the induction process is basically like a museum,
the museum version of the hundred greatest bands of all time,
hundred greatest albums of all time, and all of like
the arguments that that starts. Yeah, that's basically the voting
(25:07):
and induction process every single year. Why is this person
on this list? Why isn't this person on this list?
Why haven't you inducted this person? This doesn't even count
as that kind of music. That is exacts the induction
process every single year, and everybody's right, Yeah, And I
think the Hall of Fame itself is kind of like
(25:27):
I don't think they're trying to solve that anymore. I
think they're just like, yeah, that's just comes with the
territory and stick it in your butt if you don't
like it. Probably the wisest thing they could do is
approach it from that way. There is a fan vote now,
which is great. Um, I don't know if they've always
had it, but you can vote online and pick your
(25:49):
top five, and the winner of the fan vote is
on a fan ballot. And I believe that kind of
change things because you know, bands like Rush in Cheap
Trick finally getting in the last couple of years, there
were a couple of the big ones where people were like,
why are they not in there? Like they might may
not be the most popular band across all demographics, but
(26:11):
like they have some of the most devoted fan bases
and have been doing it for you know, thirty years. Yeah. No,
there's tons and tons of people that you can say, like,
why aren't they in there? Um? Yeah, for sure. But
I don't know that the fan vote is actually having
much of an impact because I saw that it's added
to the other thousand votes, like all of the fant
(26:32):
allies adds up to one extra vote. It's not like
they can vote in people. No. And I learned that
from Dee Snyder, who we were actually on a TV
set with at the same time, the lead singer Twisted Sister.
He yeah, great guy. Um. He was trying to rally
the public to support Iron Maiden this past year, and
(26:53):
Maiden got passed up, which is agreed ridiculous, but apparently
metal acts like just routinely know by the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame so much so that you would
probably be like, what is going on, Why do you
not like metal? Metal is definitely rock and roll for sure. Yeah,
I mean yeah, well, we'll get to more of that later,
because it is very strange that Judas Priest is not
(27:13):
in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Uh. They
also hand out other awards, the Ahmed Urigan Award. Um
it was the Lifetime Achievement award originally in this for
non performers who have had a major influence on the
development of rock and roll. So we're talking, uh, Brian Epstein,
not Brian Epstein. I think it is Epstein. Uh managed
(27:37):
the Beatles, Dick Clark is in lou Adler, Leo Finder,
Phil Specter, people like that. Yeah. There's also the Early
Influence Award, which is basically like, you're not rock and roll,
but you definitely influenced a lot of people who play
rock and roll, So people get inducted in that way,
like Woody Guthrie definitely not a rocker, but he certainly did,
(27:59):
um he influence like Bob Dylan, who's considered a rocker,
you know what I mean. So, yeah, it's a good
way to get in is to just travel in time,
release a bunch of records in the nineteen twenties and
sit back and wait for your induction after your long day. Uh.
Louis Armstrong, Billy Holliday, Robert Johnson, our own les Paul,
aren't less Paul like we own him. He's with us. Uh.
(28:20):
Then there's the Award for Musical Excellent. This is the
artist of musicians and songwriters and producers who was originality
and influenced creating music have had a dramatic impact. Only
twenty two. They don't do this every year. Um Ringo
star Leon Russell, now Rogers the Street Band without Bruce Springstein.
Nile Rogers is in there. He was. I was reading
(28:42):
about him. He's had one of the most amazing careers
of all time. Yeah yeah, I mean if he just
did Chic alone, that would be fine. Yep, But he's
got you know. That was just a small part of
his career. Yes it was. I mean the most recent
thing he did was win three Grammys for working with
Daft Punk on their most recent album, I guess their
last album, There You go. So, there's some things about
(29:05):
being inducted um that are kind of anomalous and interesting
in in that like you can be inducted more than
once in different capacities, right, yeah, yeah, if you're a
solo performer and you're in a band like Stevie Nicks
is the only woman to be inducted two times as
a solo performer and is a member of Fleetwood Back. No, Tina,
Tina was inducted twice, and so is Carol King. Well,
(29:29):
they are being inducted this year, so technically I got
two more weeks before us. I should have known better, Chuck,
I'm sorry. I think October thirty is so. Carol King
was in there as a songwriter, I guess, yeah, I
believe so. And Tina with with Nina, Yeah, I had
to be yes. Can you believe it they inducted her
with Ike before they inducted her as their solo career.
(29:52):
Give me a break. I believe that chronologically, But it
doesn't have to go chronic chronologically. It says nothing about
chronological order. But we'll let me ask you this. When
you think Tina Turner, do you think rolling on the
river or do you think private dancer private, okay, you
think sexy, sweaty saxophone. Yes, solos, yes, totally, alright, fair enough,
(30:15):
I'm thinking about one right now, which is why she's
in there twice. Eric Clapton's in there three times, not once,
not twice, but thrice obviously, Yardbirds Cream and it's a
solo guy. All the Beatles are in twice. Yeah, all
it's they're the only band all inducted as solo artists. Yeah.
I can't think of another band that might hit that mark.
(30:37):
Um um. I can't either, because not many people are
going to be just as big as a solo performer. No,
it's very rare, for sure. Um. And I think it's
nice that they gave Ringo his own two in two
thousand seventeen. That was great. That was a very nice ceremony.
I watched it every year, the ceremonies. Oh sure, I
love it. It's it's fun because you know they induct
(31:01):
the people. Someone who loves that person is inducting them,
so that's always great. And it's always you know, like, uh,
somebody might not expect like Harry Styles inducted Stevie Nicks
and like I didn't even know Harry styles like Stevie Nicks.
In turns out he loves Stevie Nicks. So it's stuff
like that. And then they give their speech which is
great or a complete uh disaster, which is also fun.
(31:25):
So this is from Amanda Patrucius Patrucius, sorry, Amanda um
from the New Yorker back in two thousand seventeen, and
she said, the televised ceremony proceeded about is expected. Gentlemen
with exacting hairstyles, wore sunglasses inside, hugged each other reluctantly,
and squinted at a teleprompter. Was like, he just took
(31:48):
me there to the induction. Well, what's funny is some
of these some of the speeches are really nice and awesome. Uh,
and then some of them are uh. Some people are
like up there with bands that they broke up with
and like they hated each other. Yeah, Like, oh my god,
have you seen the acceptance speech for Blondie? I know
I saw it live, but I don't remember what was
(32:09):
What would happen? Blondie wouldn't let like three or four
of the original members play at the ceremony. Debbie Harry
wouldn't know, yes, sorry, Debbie Harry would not and one
of the original guys begged her on the microphone during
his speech, and she said no and kept saying no.
It was like no, we're not no, you're not playing tonight,
and um, it was really deeply uncomfortable. Fifteen years later
(32:34):
watching it on YouTube, I was like, I'm gonna throw up.
I'm so so uncomfortable right now. Well, you know, sometimes
people don't show up, like Paul McCartney didn't show up
for the Beatles induction because supposedly he was in a
lawsuit at the time with Yoko and Ringo about something. Um,
the Talking Heads managed to get together and play together,
(32:54):
like that's the other thing, you know, that's where I
was headed. You have your speech and then you play together,
usually as the original band. Sometimes if it's like like
a journey, you know, Steve Perry didn't sing, but he
gave his blessing for the new guy to sing. Sometimes
they'll have both, like you know, Guns and Roses will
have the two drummers there and they'll take turns Axel
(33:17):
wasn't there, you know, not mid song. Uh. And then
sometimes people can't get it together at all and they're
just like, no, we hate each other. We're not playing,
we're not showing up. Um. Sometimes Mike Love will get
up there as a member of the Beach Boys and
be a crazy freak. Uh just watch his speech if
you want to see something very deeply uncomfortable. I can't.
(33:39):
He like flat out challenged people on stage. He just
got really salty, like halfway through and he's like, I'd
love to see I'd love to see the mop Tops
the Beatles get up and do a hundred and eighties
shows a year, or I'd like to see Mick Jagger
get up on stage and do what I do. And
it was just and he's a legendary jerk, but it
was it was really something else he does not live
(34:00):
up to. But to me, that's sort of the fun
of watching the ceremony is all these really deeply personal
relationships of these people that are suddenly thrust back together. Uh,
and do they work it out and are they amicable
and cool or not? Bunny Carlos played with cheap Trick,
which is cool, they're drummer that left um. But sometimes
(34:21):
like Axel Rose in a full on legally statement that
not only didn't say like I don't want to come,
but he was like, no one is allowed to induct me.
No one is allowed to speak for me. I think
we have to read it. Chuck, Yeah, read it. It's
pretty graty. This was from Axel Rose. I strongly request
that I not be inducted in absentia, and please know
that no one is authorized, nor may anyone be permitted
(34:44):
to accept any induction for me or speak on my behalf.
Neither former members, label representatives, nor the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame should imply, whether directly, indirectly or biomission,
that I am included in any purported induction of Guns
and Roses. Oh man, he really did want to take part,
and yet they got back together and they're playing again
(35:05):
and seemingly enjoying themselves. What's his problem with Guns and Roses?
I mean, I knew they broke up or whatever, but
why does he like hate Slash or what's the problem?
Oh yeah, he and Slash had problems, and I don't
know they worked it all out, but they hugged it out.
Who knows what goes on behind these closed green room doors?
You know? Wasn't that the song No One Knows what
(35:29):
goes on behind green rooms doors? I think? Is that
a bob Seekers song. I think so maybe we should
take a break. All right, let's do that. All right,
We'll be right back and we're gonna wrap this thing up,
(35:58):
all right. Should we talk about some of the famous snubs? Yes, definitely,
we can just do that for the rest of the show. Well,
I mean, I'm looking at the list. I'm gonna go
ahead and throw out Alison Chains and Big Star, like
throw them out like you don't include them, throw them
out like they should be in and they're not. How
about wait for this one, Uh, Dick Dale, that's just nuts.
(36:24):
That's we talked about that in the Gibson Fender episode.
How about the Smiths or m C five, I know,
I mean, it gets, it gets weird. It's like, who'sker
do to me? Belongs in there? But like they were
a very small band in excess was a huge band.
Jane's addictions not in the Jane's addiction not being in
(36:44):
there's pretty surprising and just objectively wrong for sure. I
totally agree. Uh Motorhead, well, Motley Crue, it gets. It's
so subjective, it gets so weird because people poo poo
stuff like disco and they poopoo stuff like uh like
Ozzy Osbourne or metal like he should be in there,
(37:05):
Yeah for sure. But that's I mean, that's that kind
of gets at the heart of why a lot of
people are like, wait a minute, what's going on here? Um,
Because like hip hop acts have started to be inducted
into it starting in two thousand and seventeen, UM or
two thousand seven, I'm sorry with Grandmaster Flash in the
Furious five. I think one of the most recent one
(37:27):
was jay Z and is that right? And we said
earlier that it hadn't happened yet by the time this
is out, it will have already. Okay, so this year
part of this class, Okay, Tupac got inducted. I think,
what do you what do you think about that? One?
More Failakuti was nominated this year, but he didn't make it.
So there's this guy that um Dave turned up that
(37:52):
I think makes a really great case. His name is
Troy L. Smith. He works for Cleveland dot Com, one
of the triumvirate of writing about the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame and um. He says, look, man, if
you are talking about rock and roll, of course it
would include hip hop just as much as it would
include like alternative or new wave or punk, like they're
(38:12):
all branching off the same tree. Because if rock and
roll is the trunk, if you go a little further down,
the roots of that tree are like blues, jazz, gospel,
boogie woogie do walk, like all this stuff combined to
make rock and roll. And if you're saying like rock
and roll is just a white guy with a guitar
somewhere between nineteen sixty seven and nineteen nine, you're talking
(38:36):
specifically about rock, and that's actually different than rock and roll.
And this isn't the rock Hall of Fame. This is
the rock and roll Hall of Fame. So yeah, you
could make a really strong case to include not just
hip hop but also like R and b um world
music like Failey, Cooties, afrobeats, stuff like, like all these
(38:58):
people were influenced by the same tree. And that's what
Troy Smith is seen. And I gotta say I agree
with them on that one. I just have mixed feelings.
I do agree, but it's um. Then just call it
the Music Hall of Fame, maybe because it's some people.
It's weird that like Willie Nelson's not in there, but
like another country artist might be like Williams is in there,
(39:20):
Johnny Cash. Yeah, like they'll include jazz and now hip hop,
but like not metal. It's just I don't know, man,
that it starts to sort of fall apart in a
way the more you expand it. Because there is a
country music Hall of Fame that there's probably I don't
know if there's a jazz hall of Fame is there somewhere?
I mean like like should everyone have their own hall
(39:41):
of fame like every genre? But then where do you stop?
Is it like is new way the genre like it is?
But is it under the more all inclusive banner of
rock and roll? It just it gets really like a
cat chasing its own tail at some point. So there
was this kind of Twitter just Russian, which means a
flame war between ice Cube and Gene Simmons from Kiss
(40:05):
when n w A was being abducted. Gene Simmons was
pooh pooing the whole thing and ice Cube was defending it,
and ice Cube had a pretty good point. He said, Um,
the question is are we rock and roll? Rock and
roll is not an instrument. Rock and roll is not
even a style of music. Rock and roll is a spirit.
It's not conforming, it's outside the box. And then he
(40:25):
finishes with rock and rolls in w A, which I
could not have read that more squarely than I did.
But if you go a little further and read Gene
Simmons is retort too. He's saying, like, yes, he's criticizing
hip hop is not like actual music because they sample
and they talk, rather than saying so therefore it's not rock.
I disagree with that. But he also says, I'll tell
you what, when led Zeppelin gets inducted into the Rap
(40:48):
Hall of Fame, then you will have proven your point.
And he makes a good case in that situation as well.
But it kind of dove tails in with your idea,
like should each of them, each genre of music have
its own hall of Fame? I don't think so. I
think the rock and roll Hall of Fame is a
wide enough umbrella that it includes hip hop and other
stuff that's not rock. Yeah, that's not a great look
(41:12):
to say stuff like that either, though, No, I know,
and like like you know, of course there's allegations of
racism and sexism and and um homophobism is that a word? Sure? Umho?
I think of course, dude, of course, But Um, Amanda, Patricia,
I'm sorry, Amanda. Um. She says that. Um. She points out,
(41:35):
like how much this this ties into that same hatred
of disco by the same people who are into rock.
But at the time when rock was new, these are
the same people who never aged out of that. It's
all rock. It's all white guy with the guitar from
nine six seven, and that's rock, and that's rock and roll.
(41:55):
And that's just not true. That's a type of rock
and roll. That's not the all and I'll be all
of rock and roll. Yes, that's my take on it.
I'll stop saying it. I know I've said it at
least twice now, but it's just so true it is. Uh.
He saw who was coming in this year. I thought
that might get you excited. Who. Well, in the in
(42:16):
the performer it's Tina Turner, Carol King, the go Goes Amazing,
jay Z Foo Fighters, and Todd Rundgren. But the Early
Influence Award, my friend craft work. Oh really they're getting
in Huh, they're getting in his early influence along with
Charlie Patton and uh and legendary jazz poet Gil Scott Heron,
who I totally think Whyatt's Senac should play in a biopic.
(42:42):
Oh yeah, you mean a biopic. In a biopic, I
think why it would crush that role. And I think
I've even told him that. Oh yeah, what was his response?
I don't think I've told him that, because he would
probably be like, I don't need career advice from me.
But that's right, zip it why it's famous for saying
Musical Excellent Award this year is local j Billy Preston
(43:03):
and Randy Rhodes, not bad. Ozzy's not even in there.
And then Clarence Avant is getting the Ahmet Ernigan Award,
and I don't know who that is, and I feel
like I should. I don't either, So so Chuck, they
have um purple haze lyrics. I think we've established that
multiple times. What else do they have at the Rock
(43:23):
and Hall of Fame that would be worth paying thirty
dollars to go see? By the way, Clarence uh Avant
is known as the Black Godfather, entrepreneur, executive and film
producer and American music executive. So I gotta shout him out.
You know, they got they got the instruments, they got
the out, they got a whole room of clothing and
(43:44):
legendary outfits. Uh, they have the handwritten lyrics, They have
archival like original master tapes where in listening rooms. They
have this really cool thing now that just opened a
couple of years ago called the Garage, where it's literally
like a garage just set up with a full band
and you can go in there. You don't have to
know what you're doing, and they'll try and teach you
(44:04):
how to play instruments. I just want to wash your
hands afterwards. Yeah, well you do now for sure, and
you're like or always um and you know, they have
a great music education program with working with the schools
in Ohio and in Cleveland, so like, like they do
a lot of cool outreach and hands on stuff to
get people involved. And if you go to the garage
(44:26):
the website for the garage and you see like these,
you know sort of people you who can tell have
never picked up an instrument before playing the drums or
playing the bass just a little bit, and like the
delight on their faces. It's pretty cool. That's where the
museum staff who transgressed are punished. They have to go
hang out at the garage and watch that. Oh you
(44:48):
get this now they're teaching them the teachers I got. Well.
The only other thing I want to point out is
the if you're looking for highlights from over the years,
that you know, in the end, they had this all
Star jam where a bunch of people come on stage
and play some songs, and I think probably the most
(45:08):
legendary moment that's ever happened, and it was passed along.
Uh more recently after his death was that George Harrison's
posthumous induction and all Star jam. They were playing while
my guitar gently weeps and prints, comes out of the
shadows and destroys the stage with a guitar solo that
like is unlike anything I've ever seen. It's amazing, and
(45:31):
he's just the coolest dude on the planet. He finishes
his solo, takes his guitar up and throws it up
in the air, and there's, uh, you don't know this,
but his guys out there to catch the guitar. But
and he struts off stage and Tom Petty's and Jeff
Lynn are just standing there like and Danny Harrison like,
oh my god, what just happened. That's pretty cool, man,
It's amazing. Um, so one long and last thing that
(45:51):
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame tried to expand
they finally tried to open something in New York and
they did, uh and I think um two thousand eight. Yes,
So they finally got that New York outpost, right, chuck,
And then within two years it was closed, And they
tried another one in Tokyo in two thousand and seventeen.
(46:12):
It closed in five months later, and Dave Rouse nails
it with this last line. I guess Cleveland really was
the right choice after all, wink emoji. Yeah. I mean
they need to keep expanding Cleveland because you've only got
so much space, you know, Yeah, for sure, but I mean,
like it's that was the place to do it. It
turns out that that was absolutely correct, So that's good.
(46:34):
Sometimes big decisions don't always work out, and this was
one that did. And by God, God bless you, Cleveland.
We gotta get Jane's addiction in there, sure. I think
we also really even more so, maybe need to get
like Iron Maiden in there or Judas Priests or both.
James was nominated once, uh and didn't get in the
(46:55):
war has been nominated three times and hasn't gotten And
I don't. That's oh no, no, no, no. Chic has
been nominated eleven times and hasn't gotten in that just
because it's disco, that is ridiculous. I saw I read
an article making the case for weird Al, but then
also saying why weird Al will never make it in
because he makes seventeen years uh snubbed, never nominated. Maybe
(47:22):
someday weird Al. But I also get the impression weird
Al doesn't care. Yeah, well maybe he does steep down. No,
I don't think so. Okay. Um, since we said weird
Al doesn't care, obviously, that means that it is time
for a listener. Now. Uh, let me see here, which
(47:43):
one should I read? I'm gonna call this lemon song. Um,
every morning is to get ready for work. Guys, I
like to throw on an episode of stuff. You should know.
The excitement that came over me this morning and to
my favorite things briefly combined into one is indescribable. Josh's
mix up on the lemons and gave me a good chuckle,
only because Squeeze my Lemon is of course from the
(48:03):
women song, and I can only guess that the song
about friendship that he's speaking about is the song friends
on led Zeppelin three maybe Uh. As soon as I
heard the beginning of the episode toquinently send quickly sent
a text over to my dad. He's the reason I'm
such a big Zeppelin fan. We both got matching Zeppelin
tattoos when I graduated from college, and I am the
(48:25):
reason he is a Stuff you Should Know fan. While
we don't live close, I'm in Denver and he's in Phoenix,
a small moment like this is something that gave us
both a good laugh and a reason to chat this morning.
And that is from Lauren and Denver. Nice Lauren, thank
you very much for that. We love bringing families together,
don't we chuck and splitting them apart in evil Factory.
(48:47):
If you want to let us not how we brought
your family together or split you asunder uh, you can
email it to us to stuff podcast at iHeart radio
dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of
I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit
the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
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