Understudies: Hardest Workers on Broadway?

Being an understudy is far more challenging than simply learning the lines of a lead actor in case of emergency. Learn all about these unsung stage heroes today. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to stuff you should know a production of I
Heart Radio. Hey hey, yeah, and welcome to with the podcast.
Hey yeah, let's go. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck and
Jerry's here and this is the podcast toda. What is

(00:23):
that all about? That was my impression of Broadway. Oh,
I thought that was your understudy, Matt Frederick. I could
see that Frederick doing the same thing. I didn't know
he was my understudy. Is that right? Is he my successor? Now?
Of course not, there was no successor Ben bowling his
mind on April Fool's Day. Yeah, that was a good one.
But we know that wouldn't fly. No, he got we

(00:46):
loved then. Yeah, of course we don't want to put
him in that situation. How interesting update. So I was
just looking, Josh. The reason I thought to do a
podcast on understudies is twofold. I was in New York
recently and I went to Broadway and saw Neil Simon's
Plaza Suite with s JP and Matthew Broderick in the

(01:09):
lead roles there, and that together the first time they
have shared the Broadway stage in a couple of decades,
and I think their first lead performances opposite one another
real life husband and wife and it was great and
we had a great time. And uh, two things happened
on that trip. Want to hung out with Joey cra
Are good friend, and Joey was talking about his friend

(01:31):
who was a understudy in Hamilton's I believe the touring
production but maybe not. Who knew like six different parts
that this gentleman could sub ind for and we talked
a lot about that. Now I was kind of blown
away and it got me thinking about understudies. But then
right after we left New York, Matthew Broderick got COVID

(01:53):
just a week or and a half or two weeks
into his run because we saw the last preview and
his un or study took over. In a play that
is almost just two people, everyone's going to see this
real life husband and wife on stage, so when the
understudy comes on, it's not great. But I was just

(02:16):
looking to see if I could find his name. And
as of like three days ago, a s JP now
has COVID, so they have just canceled through. Uh when
they're better, which is like another week or so, which
is something you know that the show must go on.
Is the sort of line and Broadway, and that is
the whole idea of the understudy is that if someone

(02:39):
is sick or stubs their toe or falls off the stage,
there is someone else there that knows the part that
can immediately step in and play this part um ideally
close to identically as the as the lead or you know,
even if it's not the lead, any any part. Yeah,
I saw, I put that understudies or the insurance policies

(03:00):
make sure the show will go on right. But after
reading this and Olivia, who did our Unsung Heroes of
the Court, she got another Unsung Heroes of Broadway article here, uh,
understudies and standbys and the swing, and we'll talk about
what all these terms mean. They are truly heroes because

(03:20):
it is astounding what they are tasked to be able
to do right. Like true, they don't save people's lives
or they don't you know, learn proprities or anything like that,
but they are they are heroes in their own way.
They're certainly the hardest working people in show business if
you ask me. Yeah, And and it will become clear

(03:41):
why because you might just think what you learn a
part and if someone goes down, you do that part.
Oh hang, onto your hats. It is much more than that,
yeah hang on to you, Yeah, I got You're about
to make a joke. So um. So we are talking understudies,
and most people check think that when you're talking about
an understudy, it is like you said, you just you
know a part and if, if some if the star

(04:03):
goes down, you fill in. And it's a pretty thrilling idea,
like you know, somebody getting their shot at a big
break after sitting in the sidelines. Um, and it can
be it can be very um aptly compared to that
backup quarterback who literally is sitting on the sidelines and
they get their chance and they show like what a
great job they're doing. On Broadway, there's the same thing,

(04:23):
and that is the understudy. But there's a bunch of
different kinds of understudies, and the one that most people
think of is actually called a standby, which is where
you are the person who knows every single word movement, dialogue, song, um,
blocking que that the lead of that play knows, and

(04:44):
so if that that lead goes down, then you stand in.
But you can go potentially years without ever getting that call,
like over over the run of a place, a multi
years run it will play. You might be on stage
a handful of times because you're that's your job. Is
that specific. You You've got one role and you're filling

(05:06):
in for one part only on the basis of some
accident or unforeseeable circumstances happened to the lead, so you
have to step in. That's what most people think of
as an understudy, but in reality, that's actually the job
of the standby, right, and the standby you know, if
it's like in the case of Plaza Suite, where it

(05:26):
is largely two people on stage at all times you
need another, it's it's probably not going to be some
unknown that's gonna be the standby for either s JP
or m b uh. And in this case I did
find his name. His name is Michael McGrath. And Michael
McGrath is a very He's won a Tony Award. He's
a very sort of renowned old school I think five

(05:49):
or six years older than Broadwerick even uh Broadway guy.
So in a situation like this, you have a heavy
hitter on standby that is um just hoping that Matthew
Broderick gets food poisoning or COVID, right, so he can
step in there. Uh, And I looked up Sarah Jessica
Parker has an understudy too, and it's kind of a

(06:10):
shame that they canceled. But in the case of that,
you know, you have to make a call as a production,
and when it's your two lead stars and in a
play of two, uh, it's probably the right call to
go ahead and cancel that because what you don't want
to deal with is a lot of, as you'll see,
unhappy ticket buyers, which happens exactly. So that's a standby, right,

(06:33):
And that's they're what the New York Times called the
most elite type of understudy. Again, that's what I always
thought was an understudy. But an understudy, it turns out,
is somebody who is part of the cast who goes
on usually night after night, well Kenny, but not always okay,
But they are also ready to fill into one or

(06:54):
more roles, usually a principal role. That's the understudy. Whereas
standby is like you might not even be in the theater,
but you're on call every time that show is on,
and you are expected to be within five minute run
or drive to the theater so you can get there
because something has gone horribly wrong, and understudy is somebody
that's that has a much more frequently attached position at

(07:18):
the theater, and usually it's a role in the ensemble cast. Yeah,
I think they're usually in the cast. I don't think
it has to be a lot of this is determined,
as we'll see, by the Actor's Union for Broadway, which
actor's equity and the deals they work out with producers.
But before you get to those specifics, you also have
your swing. And this is what Joey's friend would be.

(07:39):
A swing can cover a lot of different roles, and
a swing might be like a performer in the chorus,
but can jump up there and play Hamilton's or Jefferson
or Burr at any and this this dude could do that. Uh.
It is one of the more impressive things to accomplish,
I think, because you know all these parts, you know

(08:02):
all the songs, like you said, you know all the
choreography and the blocking. You've got to know, as Olivia
points out, something you don't even think about, which is
um between between sets. I have to go back and
I gotta know what costume I'm supposed to be in,
and who to talk to, who has that costume? Like,
you've got to know every single part to be able

(08:22):
to seamlessly transition so that no one, I mean they
know because they announced, like you know, in the role
of for Matthew Broderick tonight, the understudy will be performing
and the collective's grown. But uh, had had it not
be for that announcement, in a regular understudy role, you
shouldn't be able to tell the difference, No, because it's

(08:43):
not it's not the star, it's not the lead necessarily right,
Just yeah, you you would never know. But that is
something with the swing. So like, um, they might know
anywhere between five to a dozen of those roles, and
like you were saying, each of those roles has different
costume changes, different choreography, different um, different words to to

(09:04):
say or sing like, and they know all of those
inside and out. And when you start to understand what
a swing does, then you start to get what I
was saying earlier that they are probably the hardest working
people in show business because and on any given night,
they're ready to go at a moment's notice to to
do those roles, um at the drop of a hat.

(09:25):
And and it's because they've worked so hard up to
that point. And keep working too. It's not like there's
a time where you can stop and relax. As long
as the show is running um over the course of weeks, months, years,
however long it goes, you have to You have to
basically keep your engine revving, ready to to put it
in to drive all of a sudden, peel out on

(09:46):
the stage, lay rubber from the wings. That's how they
always put it in in the acting world. So that's
the understudy standbys and the swings are also alternates UH.
And this is someone who is scheduled to take the
place of one of the actors in that you might
be in UH Chicago for a three year run and
you're like, I don't do the matinees anymore. We have

(10:08):
an alternate that does my matinees. Everyone knows this going in.
It's not like a sickness or anything happened, or an
injury happened. Tickets half price, UH. So I mentioned the
the Actor's Equity UH and the Broadway producers. They work
through these contracts just like they would with UH SAG
or the Writer's Guild with film and television, and it's

(10:32):
all you know, you don't have a choice on Broadway
of how many understudies and standbys and swing that you hire.
It's all sort of contractual. You have to hire and
understudy for every single role except for bit players and
in some case stars. Uh. In the case of Plaza Suite,
of course they had understudies. But if it's a one

(10:53):
person show, you're not gonna throw an understudy up there
because it's it's really about that one person's Like, there
may be some leeway there according to like the production
and how they run it, but you're not required to
understudy the star. Yeah. They also, um probably, well, they

(11:15):
don't necessarily need to hire understudies if it's a limited
run show, like for a few weeks or more. Um.
Anything beyond that though, they probably will need to hire understudies,
right or if it's off Broadway or in you know,
a third area, uh stage theater, it's all bets are off.
You can do whatever you want. Yeah, you're smart hire understudies,

(11:35):
so yeah, for sure. Um. One of the other things too,
is that you start to get into logistics because if
you're working with understudies and they have a regular role
in the ensemble, if the lead that the understudy is
working under falls ill or sprains their ankle or whatever happens.
Believe me, a lot of stuff happens on Broadway. Um,

(11:56):
that understudy is no longer filling that role in the ensemble,
which means now you've got to go to your swings
and does that swing have anything else that they were
doing that you need to bring another swing. And suddenly,
like like like ups route in the middle of a blizzard,
It's like my nightmare. Logistics is like, I those are

(12:17):
the true heroes. To me, you say understudies are true heroes.
I think logisticians who deliver things are like reroute planes.
I think they're the true hero is because I could
not do it. Yeah, and in the case of like
a Hamilton's or a bigger show with a bunch of
people that are singing and dancing, if you have a
a flu that sweeps through you know, let's talk pre
COVID and we'll get to what COVID did to Broadway.

(12:38):
But you know, a flu that sweeps through the cast
and like three people go down in a week. It's
a jinga game as a production because like you said,
you're pulling people from one role to another. Then he'll
fools that who feels that role then who feels that role?
And all of a sudden you're looking at the stage
hand and you're going, can you dance? All right? Have

(12:59):
you been attention? Rip off of their norm core outfit,
and all of a sudden they're wearing a tight fitting
tuxedo and soft shoes underneath. It's so good, What a
what a story. So let's go back to talking about logisticians. Okay,
but there's an equation, Chuck, that these producers and the
director and everybody, Although I think it's probably up to

(13:19):
the producers are making. When you start to go down
the list and you're moving everybody around, Eventually you get
to a point where the show or the cast doesn't
really resemble the cast that the people coming to see
the show are are coming to see. And after a
certain point, it's probably like, um, people are so many
people are gonna ask for a refund or some partial

(13:42):
refund or something that you're better off just giving everybody
some time off and just you know, canceling the show
for a day or two. Yeah, you know those uh,
I mean, Livia came up with some great examples over
the years of like when multiple people go down in
there was a cold on this out of Falsettos and

(14:02):
the lead role Stephanie J Block's roll of Trino went down,
understudy went down, and then there was a swing. Stephanie
umo u m o h um, covering different roles, had
to take the stage in the lead with a two
and a half hour lead time and apparently had to
even use the script on stage, but got a bunch

(14:23):
of um support in cheers from the audience, which, um,
you know, like we said, audiences can be unkind. But
my experience with Broadway is that theatergoers are understand this
stuff and try to be supportive when something like this happens,
even though they're expectations in their hopes maybe a bit dashed.

(14:44):
Like Livia talks about people booing and stuff like that.
I wouldn't like to think that happened. I'm sure it has,
but they're all from jersey Bridge and Tunnel Baby. Uh. Generally,
I think there are more stories of people trying to
port the people on stage then go ah, what is this?
I want my money back? Yeah, like clapping for the

(15:06):
person who has to use the script because they're so unprepared.
That's a very meta modernist response to that. Let's take
a break. Okay, then we'll come back and talk about
what kind of money these people make right after this

(15:35):
and things chop and chock stop. Okay, we're back, everybody,
and we are back to talk about moolaw Somolians, cash, clamp, lettuce, cabbage, Uh,

(15:59):
what else? What are the kids saying these days? Bread? Yeah,
they're bringing dead back, aren't they do? I think it's dough.
I can't remember money. We'll say cheese, all right. Uh.
If you are a understudy again with the with the unions,
all of this stuff is um is prescribed how much

(16:21):
you're gonna get paid um, even if you don't take
the stage. It's not like there's like, well you're the understudy,
you didn't ever make it to the main stage, so
you get a pay cut. That is not the case.
You get a minimum as a Broadway performer. Uh. And
this was as maybe a little bit different now. I'm
not sure if they renegotiate it since then, but two

(16:42):
thousand thirty four dollars a week on an actor's equity
contract on Broadway. Yeah, and so some people who are
in the cast every night, in the ensemble, who have
who go on stage every night, may actually make less
than a swing who doesn't go on at all. And
if you stop and think about it, that actually makes
a lot more sense because that one person who's going

(17:04):
on every night in the ensemble knows what's going to
happen that night. They get a chance to like create
their character and like rehearse and understand it. And as
we'll see, like understudies, swings they don't get those kind
of opportunities, and yet they're expected to know not just
one role, but eight roles and be ready to go on.
So it makes a lot more sense. And frankly, I

(17:25):
think they deserve even more money than they get because
of the requirements of their job. But why would a
swing make more We didn't even say because they have
to understand and practice and rehearse for more parts. Well,
they get paid more. We never even said that, right,
Swings are in additional pay bumps. Oh, I'm sorry, I

(17:47):
thought that. I thought that we had kind of established
that in some way shape or form. No, no, no, no, no.
Your minimum is two thousand, thirty four dollars a week,
and if you were a swing or an understudy, you
make pay bumps. On top of that, swings get a
hundred and one dollars and seventy cents, or fifteen dollars
if you're a partial swing and an understudy of a

(18:08):
principal role gets an additional fifty four dollars and fifty
cents or understudying ensemble and extra fifteen dollars. Right, So
take take take what I was saying before, and now
move it to to like right here, because it will
make more sense now that I've said that. But you
can understand I think that it's I think you should

(18:28):
get a bump for every role that you have, not
just a bump for having multiple roles. You know, well, yeah,
it'd be great, like if you are a swing for
like six rolls, Yeah, you'd be like a hundred bucks
a people don't don't put me on stage, give me
another role instead. There. I'm sure we have Broadway understudies
listening there. They're probably like, hey, let's get Josh in
there from this next union negotiation. Yeah, give me a

(18:51):
cigar and like an ill fitting vest and I'll roll
up my shirt sleeves and get down to business. Because
you're probably the only person that's ever asked for that.
Like I'm a genius. I just came just give them
more money. Uh, if you're preparing for this, I mean there.
You know, depending on who you are as an actor,
you're gonna have different ways of preparing period. Uh. And

(19:14):
Livia found some good examples of what some people have done. Uh.
There was an actor named j. Douglas in two thousand seven,
a member of Drowsy Chaperone, because that's a laugh out
loud Broadway title, it is. Uh. He covered two ensemble
actors and stand by, uh in a standby for four principles.

(19:35):
So that's a lot of work. And Douglas would sit
in the audience at least you know initially, and sit
there with a with a recorder and quietly record all
the movements and then go home and transcribe this stuff
and then just study, study, study, basically. Yeah, that's one

(19:55):
high stress job court stenographer colliding with another high stress
job of understudy or swing, you know the job. So
Jay Douglas um would would take all those notes and
and create basically like a dossier on each of the
characters he was expected to fill in for. And so
if you got enough notice, he could like consult the
dossier and you know, refresh his memory of it, like

(20:18):
if you're an ensemble actor or even a lead like
you probably have one script and that's all you need.
This this like like Jay Douglas and others would have
like multiple scripts and multiple like workups or write ups
on their on their different characters that in and of
itself differentiates them to an astounding degree totally. UM. And
then you know, besides just learning the stuff all the

(20:41):
things that we talked about, UM, sometimes it's different accents
you know that you have to do and kind of
bounce between. You also have to be in in broadway shape.
And uh, Livia found the example of uh, he's either
loquette or Looquette Charnell Pringle who was a swing on
Mrs doubt Fire, who, aside from learning all these parts

(21:01):
over and over again, uh, in her mind was like
you know, doing PT and like physical training and doing
voice work because you have to keep in physical shape
and you have to keep your voice ready for that
kind of stamina that it takes because you may may
not just be a single performance. You may have to
step in for a week or more, or you may
eventually become that part. Yeah, that's the thing we'll talk about.

(21:24):
But there is a possibility that you could end up
like permanently in that role if if things work out
in your favor. You gotta have your your toolbox ready right.
One of the things I said is, I don't want
to make it seem like it's easy to be an
ensemble member of a Broadway show. It's that this is
the point. It's really really hard, stressful, anxiety inducing work

(21:50):
to do that, And it's work like it's definitely craft
and the people who do this love what they're doing,
but it's also like really hard work. Um. What I'm
saying is that if you are an ensemble or a
principle and you go out there every night, you have
all sorts of benefits of developing your character just through
sheer repetition over time, learning the learning everything. So it's

(22:13):
it's like wrote, Um, the people who work as under
studies and swings, they don't get that. They very frequently
will have not actually done any sort of real rehearsal
before they might be pushed out on stage and asked
to go ahead and deliver a performance that's on caliber
with whoever it is they're replacing, even though they've never
actually rehearsed that kind of thing. Yeah, I mean, if

(22:35):
you are a principle standby, then chances are they call
it a put in. Chances are you have rehearsed with
the main cast, You've gotten in that costume, you've worked
with the orchestra and the show lighting, because you know
that's all that all counts. Like if you're if you
haven't rehearsed this stuff, if you've just done it under
just the regular stage lights being on and they're like

(22:57):
the musicians aren't there, Like every thing changes when it's
go time and that curtain drops on the night, and
if you're not used to that, it's a whole different situation.
But if you are a principal, you've probably done put
ins and at least gotten the benefit of maybe a
rehearsal or two. Um I would like to think in
the case of something like Plaza Suite that s JP

(23:19):
did a full run throughs with the Matthew Broadwick's standby
and vice versa, because it's just such a high pressure
situation with just the two parts. But if you're in
a big show, there are no guarantees that you're gonna
have gone through any rehearsal at all necessarily, or if
you are, it's rehearsing with other understudies and swings and

(23:43):
maybe the assistant director with no music and no stage
lighting and no costumes like on a like during the
day on a on a weekday, right and even during
those rehearsals, um swings might have to fill in from
multiple parts during the rehearsal. So I mean, just like
just the lighting alone, you've to know the lighting cues.
You've got to know where to stand. If the lights
supposed to be on you, you want to step in

(24:04):
just the right place because that's where the lighting person
is going to shine that light. If you're rehearsing with worklights,
that's a huge disadvantage if you've never done like the
lighting blocking. And that's that's that's basically like part and
parcel with how understudies and standbys and swings are expected
to work at a genuine disadvantage, but they're expected to give,

(24:28):
you know, like on caliber performances with the people who
have had all those advantages. Another reason why I say
the hardest working people in show business. I'm picturing a
scenario one day, by the way, you might be able
to hear hammering next door. There's construction next door. I
can't hear it, Okay, I just wanted to let everyone
know in case you hear a hammer banging. Uh, it
was bound to happen because there's construction next door. But

(24:50):
I'm picturing a scenario one day where we're all out
in New York with you, Me and Emily. We're all
having dinner with a big group of people and someone's like, oh,
my friends coming is an a Broadway show. We're all excited,
and Emily's was a theater girl, so she's musical theater.
So she's like peppering them with questions. And you go.
You take like a sip on your martini and say, so,
how many parts did you play? And the table gets

(25:12):
quiet and they're like, oh, just the one. It was
one of the main ensemble parts. And you go, oh,
just the one. Interesting, man, you just nailed your impression
of me, and every and just everyone gets really quiet.
We're like, what's the deal with Josh because they get
up and go to the bathroom and I say, he's
all about the understudy and they go oh, And I'm
in the bathroom going like what do I say wrong? Why?

(25:38):
Why did you hope that happens with dinner to Josh,
so Chuck, let's move on. UM. Rehearsals not good as
far as the understudies go. One of the other things
that I think we have to mention that you pointed
out earlier is that UM, especially with principles and stars
of the show, those UM, those standbys and understudy are

(26:00):
expected to deliver exactly the same performance that the star
does every night. Like you, they they're not like, go
in there and do it your way, kid, They're they're like,
go in there and do it exactly the way this
actual star does it. Kid, don't screw up. And there's
real reason behind that. Like it's not just like you know,

(26:22):
you're being treated like cattle. It's, um, the star has
done this in a certain way so that other people
have come to expect this ad lib lind that was
ad libbed once three years ago and now is like
a regular part of the show, even though it's not.
They expect you to say that same line, so that
you have to know that role, that character so well

(26:42):
that you know how you know the character that the
actual star has created from the script. That's what they
want you to do, because if not, somebody's line is
going to get thrown off, and you can throw off
the entire production like that. Yeah, like the understudy knows this,
so it's not like, uh, the understudy thinks, so this
can be my chance to really show them what I

(27:04):
bring to the role, and then their hopes get dashed.
I'm sure you're not necessarily doing a an impersonation of
Matthew Broderick as you understudy. Uh So, like things like intonation,
you might be able to change it up a little bit,
but generally they want you to do what he does. Um.
And we'll talk a little bit more about what COVID

(27:25):
has done, But one apparent thing that COVID has done
is given a little more appreciation to the understudy and
a little bit more of a well, hey, in certain situations,
maybe it's okay for you to bring something else to
the role if we talk about it beforehand and stuff
like that, like don't surprise everybody. Uh, I mean if

(27:46):
you literally have to go on stage, like if someone
someone falls over with an appendicitis like ten minutes before curtain.
That doesn't happen a lot. Usually there's a little bit
of lead time. But uh, in the case of Olivia,
found this scray article for mental floss with a bunch
of cool examples. There was a matinee of Wicked and
midway through the show, Adele de ziem Oh, sorry, Adena Menzel.

(28:14):
Do you even get that? Reference? Is that Adell's last name?
That was during the Academy Awards, Uh, John Travolta, he
famously introduced Adina Menzel as Adele Desim. Really, I knew
that he had screwed it up, but I didn't realize
he screwed it up that bad. Yeah, he completely made

(28:34):
up a first name in the surname. He's like, why
is your name so weird? It's great, it's one of
the all time blenders. But Adina Menzel fell mid show
and fractured a rib and Showshana Bean had to go
on halfway through the show, and so there's all this
like chaos going on to try and get her in

(28:55):
there and dress so the show doesn't miss a beat.
And then poor Shoshana Bean is also in the back
of her mind like I wasn't really told what was
going on. Just Adele Desim has gone to the hospital,
and so this is also in the back of the
mind as of like, oh my goodness, what's happened to
this person that I've been understudying, who I probably have
a lot of respect for and maybe have grown close to,

(29:16):
but also like how her it is she? And is
this gonna? Is this my big break? Like all the
emotion that comes with something like that is something that
you have to just be able to check when you
tread those boards, right. I want to verify for myself,
and I think every listener who caught it you said
a del design the second time. It's not okay, okay,

(29:37):
good job, Okay. I want to make sure because you
slid it in there so well, thank you thought you'd
pulled the josh and just completely flubbed it. Well, I
was gonna just leave it in there as a hidden
joke to begin with. Well, we'll edit this. When I
could tell that you didn't get it the first time,
I had to explain so um Karen quack and bush
Um is another example of that I've read about in

(29:57):
a New York Times article from I think like two
thousand one. She was a standby for Bernadette Peters in
and get your gun, and the same thing happened, like
Bernadette Peters got really ill with the stomach virus and
apparently like I was able to keep it together long
enough to make it to UM the intermission, and they
called Karen Quackenbush. She was having I guess a birthday

(30:19):
dinner with her husband down the street and she ran
got into a cab and got to the to the
show just in time to hear everybody booing or when
they were announced, and they announced that she would be
taking over for UM for Bernadette Peters. But um, that
is extremely rare. But it's got to be so dramatic
and stressful that those stories are eternally delightful. I could

(30:41):
just listen to them all day. Well, I mean, even
though it's basically the same story every time. Yeah, how
many situations are there where you're a performer who gets
their big break and you're walking into it knowing everybody's
going to be disappointed when they see me walk out there? Right,
and I have to withhold all of my creativity and
make the star just exactly as I can. And on

(31:03):
that note, Chuck, you want to take a break real quick, Yeah,
let's do it. Okay, we'll be right back, everybody, and

(31:26):
things like chop and cho, Okay, we're back. And as
I was saying, those Uh, those stories where you know,
somebody gets their big break um because the star you

(31:47):
know got sick or whatever. A few far between. Um.
But for the most part, all the stuff we've talked
about where like the stress um having to you know,
keep your creativity, your own personal creativity in check and
do mimicry um, like being on call and never having
any idea when you're going to go on. For some people,
you're like, I would never want to do that. It

(32:09):
sounds awful, But there are people who like make careers
out of this, this type of of acting um. And
it's one of those things where once you proved yourself
once twice a couple of times, you can they will
call you any time you want them to. You can
be an understudy, you can be a standby, you can
be an alternate for the rest of your life because
it's so difficult to do that. If you prove yourself,

(32:32):
you're in. Yeah. I think there's a lot of jobs
in the world that some people view as stepping stones
or transient jobs that other people are quite happy to
do their whole life. I remember when I first went
to l A and when I was eighteen and my
brother worked on Dear John, and I was an X
you Got Me off as an extra. I love that show.

(32:53):
It was so good and I was in it. Which
what which episode? Oh? I remember Kirk goes skiing John.
I don't remember exactly what happened. I could probably dig
it up, but I play a bus boy in a scene,
and uh, eighteen year on me, I looked like I
was twelve, but I was up there with the extras

(33:14):
in between, and this is my first experience with any
of this stuff. And um, I remember these extras that
seemed so old to me. They were probably in their
thirties now that I look back, but they were kind
of career extras, and I remember talking to them about
that and they were like, you know, uh sure, I
still audition, but like the reality has hit me that

(33:36):
I'll probably never make it. But hey, I'm in the Union,
I've got great health care. I constantly work as a
stand in or a or a u uh an extra
or a featured extra and make good money and I
know my schedule and like, I'd rather do this than
wait tables or something where waiting tables that can be
a permanent job. I worked with career waiters as well,

(33:58):
but under studies. Like you said, it's not always just
a transient thing you gotta have. Just because you're good
on stage and you can sing and dance doesn't mean
you can handle the kind of pressures, additional pressures that
come with this. It takes a special kind of performer,
and some people are good at it and they know
it and they stick to it. I'm sure they always

(34:19):
would want that lead part, but it's not like they're like, oh,
if I could just get out of this understudy thing
all the time. Now. Some people really get off on
the additional pressure of not knowing and knowing like you
could be called it any second. Some people like really
like that, and then the additional work of having to
understand and know all these different parts, Like some people

(34:41):
really like that. But like you said, a lot of
people viewed as a stepping stone, and astonishingly actually has
been a stepping stone. Like sometimes the stars have aligned
for people whose names we know today because they started
out as an understudy or a standby. UM. And Bernardette
Peters who I mentioned, UM, she she went down during

(35:01):
one performance. She actually started out as an understudy, I think,
all the way back in age thirteen, and then later
on on Broadway with her first real Broadway job. Um,
she was a standby, so she started out. I don't
know that she had any like um like moment where
you know she she hit it big. I think she
just was one of those you know, workhorses who was

(35:22):
like doing whatever job you can and then just kept
going from there and became a star as a result. Yeah. Like,
as the story goes, she understudied and performed, uh the
lead part or I don't know about the lead because
I don't know, Uh, I think the child lead. I
don't know Gypsy as well, but played Dainty June. Um
filled in and did this and apparently this the story goes,

(35:45):
Burnett Peter's mom put that on the resume that like
she she played Dainty June. I'm curious, you know this
was in the night early nineteen sixties, about the sort
of ethics of doing that now of your resume, Like
if you put you know, aid opposite Sarah Jessica Barker
in Plaza swee, They're like, well you did that for
three days, Like I don't know if if you're allowed

(36:07):
to put that on your resume, right, um, I mean,
or you could point it out like understudy and filled
in for so many days. But from the impression I
get Burnard Peter's mom kind of said like she played
this on Broadway, right, But at least Bernardette Peters had
did plausible deniability where she's like, yeah, I'm um, I
didn't know this. But Anthony Hopkins apparently got a huge

(36:30):
break because he was an understudy this Sir Lawrence Olivier
in the West End. Yeah. Um, there was a play
called The Dance of Death, um, which sounds like a
really odd, unnerving play. Um. It's said in like a
remote Swedish island. I think in the nineteenth century it's
just weird. Um. But in nineteen sixty seven, um Olivier

(36:53):
came down with appendicitis and Anthony Hopkins filled in for him,
and Olivier basically said he crowned him as like his
successor by writing about what a good job he said.
He walked away with the part of Edgar that was
Olivier's role, like a cat with a mouse between its teeth.
So that was a huge break for Anthony Hopkins to

(37:14):
start out with him. You know, long story, short hand
ballecter uh Tay Diggs, who famously was in rent and
obviously in TV and films. He was an understudy UH
in nineteen revival of Carousel and then Shirley McLain UH

(37:35):
film legend. Shirley McClain was an understudy on Broadway the
nineteen fifties as a teenager and uh ten days into
the main performance, I believe it was Carol Haney fell
ill or just fell, Yeah, I think fell. It was
an injury in this case finished the show, but Shirley
McClain had to fill in with about a half hour's notice.

(37:58):
Screwed up a little bit, cursed audibly on stage because
she goofed up and like dropped her hat in one scene.
But everyone was impressed, and Alfred Hitchcock came to see
that play a few months later and cast her in
The Trouble with Harry, and she went on too great
great fame. Yeah, and she became whose mom was she? Uh?

(38:20):
Whose mom? Who's whose? Whose kids? I don't know? I
don't either. I always want to say Carrie Fisher. But
this Debbie Reynolds kid, right, is that what you're thinking? Maybe?
Maybe who knows? Um, there's another one to chuck that's
worth mentioning because she kind of ushers us into the
Broadway in the Covid age. Her name is Sutton Foster.

(38:42):
She was an understudy. She tried out for the lead
and thoroughly modern Millie and she didn't get it. So
she said, okay, well will you make me the understudy
to that role? And it turned out the actor who
had that role UM left and so they turned to
Sutton Foster and said, hey, you wanna you wanna star
and she turned it into a I think a Tony
Award in two thousand two. Well, fast forward to December

(39:07):
and she's working as the the lead in UM, the
Music Man, I believe, and she catches Covid and her
understudy takes over for her, Cathy Void co Void co
yeah v O y t k O. She took over
four and she did such a great job that one
of the greatest people on the planet, from what I

(39:29):
can tell, Hugh Jackman gave a UM now famous speech,
UM singing the praises of understudies and Cathy Void singular
almost almost he had to stop himself, you could tell,
but he was talking about. He said something like, when
when she arrived for work today, she could have played
any of eight different roles and then went on to
basically talk about how understudies are like the thing that

(39:53):
keeps Broadway going. And it was because Sutton Foster came
down with COVID that the void Coode got to kind
of step into that spotlight courtesy of Hugh Jackman and UM.
One of the reasons it became such big news was
not just because Hugh Jackman gave the speech, although in
large part it was, but also because COVID was just
decimating Broadway at the time, and there were shows that

(40:15):
were like, you know, having to cancel performances. There were
all sorts of understudies and standbys and alternates being thrown
every which way. UM, And it was a really hard time,
and I think still in some ways is a hard
time for Broadway right now. Like you said, ump Plaza
Suite is now is currently dark, right, Yeah, because of COVID. Yeah,

(40:37):
I mean, I think what it did was it really
highlighted the necessity and the value of swing and understudies
and standbys. I think they were probably, at least it seems,
just from reading up on it for many years, a
little taken for granted of course, that they would always
be there. Maybe under hired because Broadway, like a lot

(40:57):
in the film and television industry, you are expected to
perform sick or injured unless you absolutely cannot. It's not
like regular jobs. You're like, I don't feel too good,
I can't go in. It's like you go in anyway. Uh.
There was a um. The president of Actors Equity, Kate Schindel,
tweeted out and this was about, you know, the COVID
surge and the slide on understudies. Tweeted this, Uh, my

(41:21):
educated guess is that when employers consistently reject our efforts
to negotiate for more swings under studies and substage managers,
we haven't even talked about that. Like if you're on
the crew, when you get six, someone has to fill in.
Because the industry model has grown dependent on people working
sick or injured. It's shortsighted and unsafe. Uh. And this,

(41:43):
you know, kind of forced Charlotte st. Martin, who was
president of the Trade Association of the Broadway League, to
sort of apologize, not sort of to like fully apologize
and and kind of call for producers to cover their
shows adequately, and like said before, it led to more
things like hey, maybe an understudy can actually bring a

(42:03):
little something to the role. Maybe we shouldn't take such
uh take them for granted as much. Yeah, Charlotte Saint
Martin had apparently thrown some shade on the understudies, and
um got called out by Kate Sheindel. So I guess
from from what the New York Times is saying, they
are able to or they're using this to to try
to make it easier on understudies and same boys, to

(42:26):
to give them like full rehearsals and actually have the
lighting people there during it and like like make it
so that it's just a slightly less stressful job and
that there's more of them working. Um, which is yeah,
that is good, Like that's a that's an improvement. It's
the same thing like you were saying with the film
industry when the transition it's going through now, where it's like, no,
you really shouldn't work at twenty eight hour day every

(42:48):
day and just be expected to, uh whenever the director
producer wants you to be there. You know, it's um.
Any anytime there's an improvement like that, it's an improvement
for all him into that. Uh. The one thing I
don't think we mentioned that I think is uh important
is that sometimes you may audition as the understudy, and

(43:09):
sometimes you may audition for the lead role. If it's
not like already set in stone, like Matthew Broderick is
gonna play this role and that's why we're doing it.
If it's just open auditions for the lead role, they
might say, oh, you're really good and I'm not gonna
cast you, but I'd love to cast you as the understudy.
Sometimes it goes that way. Yeah, So like if you
want to be on stage, you have to basically be like,
I'm not I'm not doing this anymore, Like I'm not

(43:32):
taking understudy parts because you can get typecast into him
because it's hard to do and not everybody wants to do.
Or your roll with ice that you know, things happen
that thoroughly modern Millie's gonna crack her ankle. Yeah, that
was that other funny story we didn't kind of get
to about. Uh. Someone wrote in It Feels Like anonymously
to play Bill that was an understudy that said, you know,

(43:54):
I secretly wanted to poison the lead actor because like
you don't think about like beside is all the work
that goes into it. They're like, we we could never
make firm plans with anybody. We can never schedule anything
because you're you know, you're just on call, that on
call life of stuff, whether you're a pediatrician or a
or an understudy or a logistician or very nice bring

(44:16):
it all back around. You got anything else? Uh? Nothing else, sir? Well, everybody,
I say, go out and hug and understudy a standby,
a swing or an alternate today. Ask him first. Yes,
they may not want to be hugged, especially if they're
not wearing a name tag with the hug dot system on.
That's right. Um, well, since Chuck said that's right, of course, everybody,

(44:37):
that means it's time for a listener. Mayo, I'm gonna
call this uh Sliding Canada. As always, Hey, guys, love
the show. Promised to keep it short. Just listen to
the pubs episode, which we heard a lot of people
really like. That episode, by the way, which brought back
tons of good memories of two summers I spent taking

(44:58):
Canadian undergrads to ales. There were many pubs, but I
can't not note that Josh said George Washington took his
troops to a pub to quote toast the British leaving
the continent of North America. End quote, knock knock, Canada
called unless George Washington was still kicking it in nineteen

(45:19):
thirty one when the Statue of Westminster was signed, or
in two and Canada's Constitution was repatriated. But even then
the Crown's representative is still the head of state up here.
I realized this is the most pedantic sam of emails.
I never heard that. But one of us has to
make use of a PhD in Canadian literature somehow. Love

(45:41):
the show heard every episode all the best Brenna, very nice, Brenda.
That was we just got taken to school and putting
one of those desks that you lift the top onto
the man. That's how that's how hard we just got school. Chuck.
I'm sorry to drag you along with me, but I'm
we're there from moral support. I'll be there. I'll just
make clear the inkwell outside and I'll get in with you.

(46:04):
Who is that, Brenna? That was Brenna. It was a
correction that was smarmie but also charming and funny, which
made it lovable. That's right. So if you want to
send us an email, like Brenna did. Let's see what
you got. Take your best shot, don't smoke pot or do?
You can send it off to stuff podcast at i

(46:25):
heeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a
production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio,
visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.