June 8, 2010 • 29 mins
Recently, a massive sinkhole opened up in Guatemala City, swallowing a three-story building in the process. In this episode, Josh and Chuck explore sinkholes and the forces that cause them, natural and otherwise.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know
from House Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Chaz Bryant that makes
this stuff you should know? S y s K. You
(00:23):
realize if we release every week the five minutes before
we podcast, like we could make them. We could make
money on that, especially if you said, to the Benny
Hill music, that is the gold, this is the silver. Yeah,
I would, I would call that the platinum in this
the goal. Okay, how about that? Just to be contrary though,
just no bronze. Those guys are losers, bronze medal winners. Yeah,
(00:45):
third place bronze. I don't even know why you'd like
bring it home just leaving on the plane in that
little magazine pocket in front of you. Um, chuck, Yes,
I know that you have been to Guatemala, and I
know that you know. I've been to Guatemala too. Jerry's
been there, and we learned pretty quickly that Guatemala has
it hard. But um, we also learned that translated into
(01:08):
English from I think Spanish, Guatemala means God's whipping post.
All right, I thought you're gonna say land of many sinkholes.
That's just one of the many problems facing Guatemala. Yeah. Um,
we talked, you know, extensively about mud slides, about civil war,
just about all these problems that Guatemala has, and uh
(01:31):
this past week, this past weekend, Guatemala faced even more problems.
Last week there was a volcanic eruption volcano like twenty
click south of Guatemala City, started raining ash down and
then incomes Hurricane Agatha from the Pacific. I think, um
to get rid of all the ash, but flood the area,
(01:53):
UM create mud slides, kill a hundred and eighty people.
And then getting to the point of this podcast, hasten
a major sinkhole that's almost unbelievable looking in the middle
of Guatemala City. Yeah. All our Facebook lit up with
fans saying, have you seen this sinkhole picture? It looks
(02:16):
it was, Yeah, it does. It looks completely fake. It
is uh sixty six ft across twenty and uh almost
a hundred feet deep. But when you look at it,
it looks like the very gates of Hell have opened up.
It looks and considering there's a building in there and
that you can't even see it swallowed a three story
(02:36):
apartment building. Yeah. Well, now it was a factory, it wasn't. Yeah,
it was a clothing factory. Um. And they said that
the guys who worked there, the people who work there,
left at six in the afternoon, an hour before the
earth opened up, so they got out. And then there's
some security guard too that had a schedule altered that
earlier that day, so he wasn't there. So just like
(02:57):
the church group that, like every buddy um in the fifties,
everybody showed up late to this um like church choir practice. Uh,
and for all these different reasons, like all like twelve
or fifteen people were put were delayed and getting to
the practice, and the church happened to catch fire, and
(03:19):
had they all gotten there on time, they would have
burned to death. One imagines at the very least thing
I had to have gotten out of the church good fortune. Yeah.
So well, I guess maybe God does like Guatemala a
little maybe so maybe he just doesn't overtly hate it
like we thought. Yeah, this sinkhole was um, like you said, Saturday,
(03:39):
and um three miles from a similar sinkhole from what
was that two thousand seven? Yeah, yeah, the residents have
been complaining of all of the signs of sink whole's developing.
One happening two years earlier. That's a pretty big sign.
But then there's also creaking noise. Is um, the pavement
(04:02):
isn't exactly you know, perfectly flat. Um. There there's been
uh slight tremors maybe, yeah, I think. And they said
in the O seven one which f y I was
three hundred and thirty ft deep, and it appeared instantly,
almost instantly, killing three at least three people and like
swallowed at homes. They said that they felt the ground
(04:22):
shaking a month before it appeared, and that at the
time the government was going to send down like a
robotic camera. But it's Guatemala, so they were like, where
do we get a robotic camera? So it never happened. Yes,
that is a good point, chuck. Um. It's a kind
of an evil point, but it's a good point, right yeah. Um,
(04:43):
So we're talking about sink Cole's here. This one's not
about tropical storms, hurricanes, mud slides, right. I alway should
mention though that our friends at co ED and Guatemala
are all okay. They sent word and we posted on
Facebook that they weren't affected and everyone's doing fine down there. Awesome, Okay, okay,
we're good. So what what what's the deal with the sinkhole? Josh? Well,
it depends on who you ask, schuckers Um. One of
(05:05):
our fellow colleague coworkers over at Discovery News, guy named
Michael Riley, had a blog post um that interviewed a
Guatemalan based geologist who's like, do not call that a sinkhole?
That is not a sinkhole. And he's like, well, what
would you call it? He said, I would call it
a piping feature. And I'm pretty sure the guy made
(05:28):
that term up. I think he did too. We did
a Google search for piping feature and it brought up
a description of pajamas, baseball uniform has something to do
with email possibly uh, and that's it. There's no there's
no geological feature formation or happening that's called a piping feature.
So this guy was like, don't call a sinkhole. Let's
(05:49):
all call it this term that I just made up. Well,
that's how you coin a term, my friend. It is,
But I don't think you need to be using Michael
Riley's blog to do it at the very least to
say and I just made that up, you know. Anyway,
um man made sinkhole is what I think it is, right, Well,
he What he was talking about though, was the the
the bedrock under Guatemala is actually old volcanic deposits, and
(06:13):
usually with sinkhole's what you're talking about is a different
kind of bedrock that's actually bedrock. It's not volcanic, it
wasn't just deposited thereby, you know, something spewing it um
and you have things like limestone, dolomite. Yeah, my favorite
mineral basult. Wait, how did we ever come up with
how to say that? I think it's basalt, one of
(06:37):
those two gypsum. Yeah, the the carbonate or what's the
other evaporate evaporate classes of rocks, right, Yes, that is
typically what is underneath what's called the overburden, and the
overburden is just the soil that's on top of all that. Right. So,
for those of you who have never tried this, if
(06:57):
you go out in your backyard and dig a hole,
eventually you're gonna run out of dirt and you're gonna
hit rock. Yeah, and when you run out of dirt,
you you can say I have dug through the overburden
and have now made contact with the bedrock. Right. And
the reason you mentioned all this is because that's how
sinkhole forms, at least this type of sinkhole. You have
(07:18):
to dig it up exactly the bedrock underneath the overburden.
It gets uh whittled away by water. This turns acidic
from absorbing c O two and interacting with plants, so
it carves out a little conduits, little pathways of sort
of like an underwater stream almost right, very much like that,
And then it loosens the soil, and then then soil
(07:40):
starts to fall down in these cracks. And although the
surface and the overbird may look okay up top, this
is why they seem to happen like overnight, there's just
a lot going on underneath it. We don't see right
for weeks, months, years. Sure, you know EON's that kind
of thing. Um. So when the when the water whittles away, say, um,
a chamber the future sinkhole, which you can also call
(08:02):
a cave. When you're going caving, what you're doing is
walking through basically a dry conduit sinkhole system. Right, good point.
So when the uh, the sinkholes formed right whettle away
by water and the overburden starts spilling into it, which
is called spawling. It's spawling, right, Um. That means that
(08:24):
there is much less of it above. It's like an
hour glass basically, yeah. Right, And then when somebody walks
on it, drives on it, builds a building on it. Yes,
that that salt, what appeared to be solid, is now
in the bottom of this hole. Yeah. And oftentimes it
can um that the what I called the overburden is
(08:45):
solid enough to hold up even though it might be
hollow underneath. It can hold up for a little while
if nothing is on it. But like you said, the
problem comes when something is planted on top of it,
like a car, right, And that's actually called a cover
collapse sinkhole. And that's what we think of like for sinkholes,
these really dramatic, sudden, holy cow sinkholes. Right. I would
(09:06):
like to call it the coolest sinkhole, but since you know,
people do die, Yeah, exactly, Chuck. There's two other kinds
of sinkholes, right, um that are slightly less dramatic. Yeah,
the cover cover subsidence sinkhole. Yeah, this is this is
possibly the least dramatic syncole. Basically it is, Um, this
is this is a very similar process happens, except uh,
(09:29):
you get the impression it happens much more slowly, right
Chuck was talking about. Imagine like, um, a straw coming
into you know those little nitro sock side tubes, the
little chargers. Yeah, for like for the little industrial arts
cars that you made sure or making whipped cream or whatever.
(09:49):
You know. Um, you've got a straw going into one
of those in a straw coming out. So it's like narrow, narrow,
fat narrow. Again, that would be like conduit sinkhole or cave, um,
because it's pretty much a cave until the top collapses. Uh,
and then conduit again. All right, So these conduits allow
(10:10):
water to go in and out, but as spalling occurs,
the the dirt, the sediment, the overburden the soil spills
into the loose parts right right, and it can clog
up the conduits. Right. So what you have then for
the cover subsidence sinkhole is basically just a depression in
the earth, but a dirt depression and a lot of
(10:31):
times they're not very big either. We're talking like a
few feet. Right. One of the ways across one of
the ways to deal with the sinkhole small one is
to fill it with sand and boom bang bam. Yeah,
that's what the Florida Management UH District says. And Florida's
kind of allows you with sinkholes because of all the sand.
But these cover subsidence. Sinkholes often turned into ponds because
(10:53):
rainwater starts collecting, it has nowhere to go because the
kinduests are blocked, and bam, you get yourself a brand
spanking new pond and it's good fishing. Yes, it is,
I imagine. Uh. And then the third one, chuck a
dissolution or solution sink coole. Are you starting to see
a pattern here? Not spilling, spawling, dissolution or solution sinkhole. Right,
(11:13):
it's a geology. It's like take your pick. Yeah that
these are um actually not as dramatic either, And that's
usually if you just have like a thin overburden that
washes away and the rhodes over time and umposes the bedrock. Yeah, exposed.
I always want to say twitch twitch after you say
bed rock each time from the flint Stones remember that, No,
(11:34):
you're like flint Stones. I mean I remember the flint
Stones and they lived in Bedrock. But what's the twitch
the that was the one episode where they had the
movie star singer come to town, Tony Kurt Rock or
was Yeah, and that was a song in Bedrock twitch
twitch I don't remember that one. Wow, showing my age.
I like the one with Mr. Rock She's a hot cartoon. Yeah,
(11:56):
it's so funny that all the names were like rock oriented.
Never figured that one out because they lived in the
Stone Age's just kidding, um. But the big rack of
ribs on the car that tipped the car where that
was normal? That was a Bronosurus rib rack. Yeah, that's
good eating. That's what they ate in the Stone Age. Yes, So,
like you said, you can get a new um, a
(12:17):
new pond when you have a dissolution syinnkhole. Is that
where we were, Yeah, you can get a pond from
that to Basically, the difference between a cover subsidence and
a dissolution sinkhole is one is possibly grassy right, the
other is exposed rock right, So a grassy depression both
can be ponds. Both of them have their conduits covered. Really,
(12:39):
when you think a sinkhole, the one we're talking about
is the cover collapse. Oh my god, save me, sink whole.
So we need to talk about human beings and what
we can do. There's actually those you know, a lot
of those are naturally occurring sinkholes just because of erosion.
But humans can actually contribute to sinkholes, uh, in a
(13:01):
lot of ways. Yeah, I mean think about it. We
talked about reservoir induced seismicity. Yeah, same deal, that's just
the tip of the iceberg. Totally. We are really screwing
with the geophysical properties of Mother Earth. I'm constantly amazed
every time I go to New York that New York
is still like a standing, functioning city for now. Yeah,
(13:22):
well it's true. Well yeah, let's hope it's keeps standing
for at least the next week exactly. Uh, drilling, Josh, mining,
um foot traffic, vehicle traffic, increased water flow, broken pipes.
The other thing that you know, we talked about humans
causing an earthquake, extracting water from the subsurface. That can
(13:43):
be a big problem CAUs sinkholes. So that's how man.
Those are just a few ways that man can create
one basically, and that's what they think happened in Guatemala,
right yeah, um, basically with plumbing, and we have the
same problem here in Atlanta. I'm a little nervous to
admit our sewer system is like a hundred years old.
Guatemala cities is not too much older, you know, or younger.
(14:07):
It's right about the same age. Um. So a sewer
pipe bursts, right and you think, well, okay, this is
very bad. Erodes the soil because of the water movement,
not just that it has it. It provides a double whammy. Actually, um,
it erodes the dirt and it actually gives it a
place to be carried away through that first sewer pipe.
(14:32):
So imagine the sewer pipe and then bam, it burst
and there's a big hole there. The spewing water, the
water pressure is just eroding soil above it, right uh.
And it's it's eroding the overburden and and then it's
also this big hole in the pipe is giving a
place for the soil to be taken away. So it's
eroding it taking it away, creating a cavern and the
(14:54):
bam and that's yeah, that's exactly what happened in Guatemala
City both times. Well, actually the I mean I read
today they said they still aren't sure what happened in
this most that's what happened, Okay, they said, the guys
that we have to descend into it to find out
what happened. The guy who called it a piping feature, No,
it was some other guy that you like better. Uh,
(15:17):
let's talk about Polk County, Florida. Yeah, I think we should.
That was a human caused sinkhole. And here's what's going
on in Florida. You know when you use for fertilizer
in your yard, which and you'd like to do, Yeah,
it's got phosphate in it, and about thirty of the
entire world's phosphate. Uh stash comes from Florida. So the
(15:38):
problem with this stuff is this radioactive Miley radioactive. And
so Florida said, well, well, here's what we're gonna do.
We're gonna stack it up and huge stacks, so it's
all in one place, and we're talking hundreds of acres,
millions of tons. The result, years later, in central Florida,
a billion tons of it basically created a sinkhole. The
(16:00):
weight crushed the sand underneath it and create a huge sinkhole. Right, Yeah,
Florida is already. Um what what's known as a CARST
region and CARST region is it's a type of topography. Yes, yes,
And if you want to see some cool video on
a carst on CARST regions, um, check out watersheds dot
(16:21):
org slash earth slash krst awesome stuff. Um and uh,
CARST region is basically it's a type of topography that
features a lot of caverns, sinkholes, um springs, all this
geological these geological features created by the movement of water. Right, Um,
Florida is lousy with this stuff. But then, as you
(16:43):
were saying, it had this extra added benefit of billions
of tons of FoST foot chips radioactive byproducts. And then bam, Yeah,
and in that one collapse in Polk County, the stuff
collapsed into the water supply and polluted the entire state supply.
Yeah that's not good. Well, it's not good. But I mean,
(17:04):
if I'm gonna go silver lining here, which I'm not
one to do. Uh, it did make them all take
a hard look at how they dispose of you know,
harmful byproducts. Right, They're like, you can't just stack it
up until it falls through the earth. They're like, well,
what should we do? Right, and they're still trying to
answer that one. Yeah, which I took. Took a lot
of money in time that would clean up their water supply. Yeah,
(17:25):
and chuck, let's get in our balloon and go over
to Barzynski, Russia. We haven't been our balloon in a
long time. I know it's got a little dusty you
need to clean up in here. I know there's a
dead raccoon in the corner that's creepy. Yeah, don't look
at it. Uh. And so in Barzynski, Berezni, Breznicki, Breznicki. Yes, yeah,
I almost took us to Brezynski. Jeez, that was close.
(17:47):
We're going to Breznicki Russia. Uh In uh I think
six They had another fertilizer related sinkhole problem. Right. Pot
Ash potash, it's actually pot that's what the lady said
on the pronunciation guide. Really and she said potash. So's
(18:07):
the robot, that's what we're going with. Yeah, six hundred
and fifty six ft deep, two d and sixty ft
LONGDT one ft wide and growing. So for our non
American non librarian. And then what Burma may be sure. Uh,
that would be two hundred meters deep, eighty meters long
(18:29):
and forty wide. That's a huge sinkhole. And the reason
was they were just removing uh, potash, potash from the
ground through mine and it became flooded. And that was
that question. The sink holes always caused massive destruction and
killed people in swallow buildings. Yes, no, not true. They're
(18:53):
actually a lot of times you're just kind of like
an annoyance. Um the ones you can fill with sand, right,
or ones that aren't around, um, you know, an urban
civilized area, like if they're out in the boonies, it's
kind of cool, like really cool. If we're talking about
the ones in Venezuela, the sorry sorry Nama sinkholes. Did
(19:15):
you see those things? I saw this picture of them. Yeah,
well I didn't mean literally have you descended into them?
But those are really cool because those are in the
Tapui region, these really high mass Basically it's like at
the top of a mountain, you'll just see a forest,
dense forest, and then these huge, perfectly round holes thousand
(19:36):
ft deep yea deep in these crazy oh yeah, these
crazy dudes like put the parachutes and jump into them. Yeah,
very cool. They did on that the Planet Earth. Um.
Actually I don't think it was there, but did you
ever watch that the Planet Earth Discovery thing. Yes, they
gave us that when they bought us as a gift.
(19:56):
It was really cool. But it has the base jumpers
jumping into these things. It's crazy. That's awesome. They also
have a say no taste. Yeah, did you see those
into loom? Yes, because they got a lot of them
down there, right, Yes, they do. They're everywhere into loom
and they're awesome. So basically that is um a sinkhole
that is now a pool, right yeah, and they're there
(20:17):
for some reason. There's I guess the water collects. It
percolates down from the top, so there's always a dripping sound,
and then it collects in the bottom of the sinkhole,
usually bedrock or light sediment um. But during the percolation
process it becomes purified. So it's this incredible like bluish
(20:37):
water um that's totally pure. We're just yeah, huge for snorkeling,
scuba diving, that kind of thing. And they're also very
um sacred places I guess among the Maya maybe um.
And there's like a big movement to uh preserve these
saint no tastes because they were they were believed to
(20:58):
be um um portal to the next world, and so
they'd like sacrifice people and stuff there. They are wicked
cool looking. I plan to go one day, okay and
tread the ground that you tread into Loom. There is uh.
There's also a lot of the ruins around on the
Yucatan or will have a saint note. Well, they have
(21:18):
ruins near to Loom, right, huh and then chuck. Lastly,
probably the biggest sinkhole on the planet is the Qatara
Depression right in Egypt. It's like three hundred feet deep
or four hundred and thirty six, yes, four hundred and
thirty six hundred and thirty one deep size of Lake
Erie basically. Yeah, but it's like seventy five miles wide,
(21:40):
which is add twenty kilometers. Yeah, it's it's not I
kind of expected more to Did you see pictures It
looks sort of just looks like a desert basin sort of. Yeah.
I thought it's not nearly as cool looking as the
ones in Venezuela. No, And if you want to see
cool picture of the ones in Venezuela. You can type
sinkhole into how stuff works dot Com. There's also a
cool flash animation on zero of how sinkhole's form and
(22:04):
really to sum up sinkhole's form, because water moves underground,
it rose erodes the overburdened above combat. There you have it. Okay, Um,
and I think I said handy search bar at how
stuff works dot Com? Right? If not, I just did,
which means it's time for a listener. Meant yes, Josh,
(22:28):
serial killers. I just need to say, judging from the
Facebook and fan reaction, that we have a sick and
twisted audience. I thought it was funny that a lot
of people felt they need to be like, you know,
not to be morbid or anything, but real coach, everybody
loves serial killers. Okay, just go with it. Before I
read these, Josh, I should just point out a quick correction.
Ted Bundy Um did his final Sorority House actions at
(22:52):
Florida State, not Florida, and I knew that too. I
don't know why I said UF Yeah, I thought it
was Florida the whole time. I'm not a big Florida
Gator fan, as you know, but I'm sure that had
nothing to do with it. You. Uh, we heard from
a bunch of people. Josh kind of jokingly said, if
you know of any serial killers. Turns out a bunch
of people have come into contact with surprising amount. Uh,
(23:16):
And so I have a bunch of them. I'm gonna
run down you. You want to read some of these two? Oh, sure,
I'll give you that page. Uh. This is from Solomon.
My mom told me a story when she was in
Washington in the late seventies. She graduated college, moved there
to work as a social worker in Seattle. She was
supposed to meet up with a friend one day and
co worker in her roommate, and they waited for hours
and hours, but they never showed. She spoke to her
(23:38):
co worker later and said the reason she never came
because her friend was missing. Turns out, long story short,
that she went to help a guy with a sailboat
and the parking lot buffalo bill style, can't help me
get this couch in the van. She got there and
there was no sailboat. And it turns out that this
guy was Ted Bundy and the friend was janics Ott,
one of his final victims. It's from Solomon. All right,
(23:59):
I've got a give one. This is my favorite. This
is from Justin. My grandfather once knew a serial killer.
They were in the same fantasy baseball league. I do
not know his name. Unfortunately, he was kicked out of
the league for cheating and his family left him, so
he resorted to shooting people in the head with the pistol.
The police had him cornered in a motel, so he
covered himself in baseball cards and committed suicide. That's from Justin.
(24:22):
I don't know about that one, just said at the
very least Justin as a great imagination. Yes. Uh. This
one comes from Karen h. Just a tidbit, guys. My
aunt's first husband was a corner on the Manson murders,
Tate la Bianca. I never met him because they divorced
before I was born, but my aunt always talked about
him during the murders. Her ex husband also founded the
(24:42):
Los Angeles Coroner's gift shop. I thought that was strange,
strange and awesome kind of the gift shop at least. Uh.
This one's from Megan. I just wanted to tell you
that my stepdad's brother murdered two people. They were my
stepdad's friends. My stepdad recounted always feeling a little odd
around his brother. There. He said the hair on his
arms and neck would rise when his brother would talk
(25:03):
to him. His brother's His brother used to catch sparrows
as a child and show firecrackers into their butts and
let them go after he lit them, which is pretty awful.
Thanks Megan. Yeah, that's part of the McDonald triad. I
would say, uh, two quickens here on Jeffrey Dahmer. Apparently
he had a bunch of neighbors that listened to our show.
(25:24):
Joel says, around the time of the killings, my mom
lived next door to Jeffrey Dahmers. She met him twice
and she said he seemed like a nice guy, but
a little weird. I would say so anyway, I just
thought I would share my little anecdote with you guys.
Joel and from Coal and Cincinnata says, my father went
to preschool with Jeffrey Dahmer. He doesn't remember him torturing
(25:46):
small animals or anything, but one fact sticks out. He
liked to walk around with his cheeks sucked in. My
dad said, picture someone making a fishy face. My dad's
theory was that Jeffy was saving his taste for human flesh.
But that's pure speculation. Wow, that is pure speculation. Thanks
for that. Checkov had a couple more, uh, if that's
(26:07):
okay with you, Yes, all right. There's one from anonymous
in Florida who wanted to give the attention to the
victim and not take any for herself. I went to
high school with a girl who became the victim of
a serial killer known as the Gainesville Ripper, Danny Rolling.
I wasn't close friends with her, but she was in
my freshman English honors class. So that's from anonymous. Kurt's
(26:28):
lived eight minutes away from Dennis raiders home the bt
K killer, and the house where he murdered one of
his victims is across the street from the hardware shop
where I shop. And it turns out b t K
Dennis Raider uh murdered more than three people over the
course of his career. Still kind of a poop poo
serial killer career, in my opinion, said I was, you
(26:50):
got any more? I got one more? Go ahead. Back
in night, my dad's best friend's family was targeted by
the Zodiac Killer. We recently met up with her daughter
and she told us the story that one of her relatives,
David Arthur Faraday, was killed by Mr Zodiac and the
fear of someone else being killed caused them to leave California,
(27:11):
which meant my dad lost contact with her. Thanks for
the podcast and fully expect you to to release new
episodes even after you are dead. Jerry. Slightly disturbing. It was,
especially in relation to the Zodiac killing and especially since
it was written by our own Jerry. Yeah, it was,
wasn't it. I got one more? This is from Leslie,
and Leslie has Josh known three murderers. Wow, and she's
(27:34):
still around. The First person Robert Bennett, a k a.
The handcuff Man, who I think was caught in Atlanta.
He lived just across the street from me in to
wand Up, Pennsylvania, and we used to sneak through the
alley beside his house to get to school and we
would sneak into his pool. Yeah, dangerous business. Second was
Eric Smith, a kid from Sonoma, New York, who murdered
(27:55):
a four year old boy. His grandfather was my science
teacher and a family friend. And finally, the recent murderer
I've known was Messak Dumas, who murdered his family here
in Naples. I worked with him for a while at
a restaurant and knew his wife from the grocery store
right shop. And that's from Leslie. So she's done three
murderers and good for her, Leslie. UM, keep your eyes peeled.
(28:17):
That's what I want to remain on point. I've never
known anybody who's known that many murderers before. UM chuck
tag teaming listener mail makes me feel like Michelle Norris
and Robert Siegel. Okay, Uh, and it's Thursday even so,
like the whole MPR thing's really going on. UM. Check
us out on Facebook, it's UH stuff you should Know
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(29:18):
by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are
you
Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you Should Know
from House Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, and welcome to
the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Chaz Bryant that makes
this stuff you should know? S y s K. You
(00:23):
realize if we release every week the five minutes before
we podcast, like we could make them. We could make
money on that, especially if you said, to the Benny
Hill music, that is the gold, this is the silver. Yeah,
I would, I would call that the platinum in this
the goal. Okay, how about that? Just to be contrary though,
just no bronze. Those guys are losers, bronze medal winners. Yeah,
(00:45):
third place bronze. I don't even know why you'd like
bring it home just leaving on the plane in that
little magazine pocket in front of you. Um, chuck, Yes,
I know that you have been to Guatemala, and I
know that you know. I've been to Guatemala too. Jerry's
been there, and we learned pretty quickly that Guatemala has
it hard. But um, we also learned that translated into
(01:08):
English from I think Spanish, Guatemala means God's whipping post.
All right, I thought you're gonna say land of many sinkholes.
That's just one of the many problems facing Guatemala. Yeah. Um,
we talked, you know, extensively about mud slides, about civil war,
just about all these problems that Guatemala has, and uh
(01:31):
this past week, this past weekend, Guatemala faced even more problems.
Last week there was a volcanic eruption volcano like twenty
click south of Guatemala City, started raining ash down and
then incomes Hurricane Agatha from the Pacific. I think, um
to get rid of all the ash, but flood the area,
(01:53):
UM create mud slides, kill a hundred and eighty people.
And then getting to the point of this podcast, hasten
a major sinkhole that's almost unbelievable looking in the middle
of Guatemala City. Yeah. All our Facebook lit up with
fans saying, have you seen this sinkhole picture? It looks
(02:16):
it was, Yeah, it does. It looks completely fake. It
is uh sixty six ft across twenty and uh almost
a hundred feet deep. But when you look at it,
it looks like the very gates of Hell have opened up.
It looks and considering there's a building in there and
that you can't even see it swallowed a three story
(02:36):
apartment building. Yeah. Well, now it was a factory, it wasn't. Yeah,
it was a clothing factory. Um. And they said that
the guys who worked there, the people who work there,
left at six in the afternoon, an hour before the
earth opened up, so they got out. And then there's
some security guard too that had a schedule altered that
earlier that day, so he wasn't there. So just like
(02:57):
the church group that, like every buddy um in the fifties,
everybody showed up late to this um like church choir practice. Uh,
and for all these different reasons, like all like twelve
or fifteen people were put were delayed and getting to
the practice, and the church happened to catch fire, and
(03:19):
had they all gotten there on time, they would have
burned to death. One imagines at the very least thing
I had to have gotten out of the church good fortune. Yeah.
So well, I guess maybe God does like Guatemala a
little maybe so maybe he just doesn't overtly hate it
like we thought. Yeah, this sinkhole was um, like you said, Saturday,
(03:39):
and um three miles from a similar sinkhole from what
was that two thousand seven? Yeah, yeah, the residents have
been complaining of all of the signs of sink whole's developing.
One happening two years earlier. That's a pretty big sign.
But then there's also creaking noise. Is um, the pavement
(04:02):
isn't exactly you know, perfectly flat. Um. There there's been
uh slight tremors maybe, yeah, I think. And they said
in the O seven one which f y I was
three hundred and thirty ft deep, and it appeared instantly,
almost instantly, killing three at least three people and like
swallowed at homes. They said that they felt the ground
(04:22):
shaking a month before it appeared, and that at the
time the government was going to send down like a
robotic camera. But it's Guatemala, so they were like, where
do we get a robotic camera? So it never happened. Yes,
that is a good point, chuck. Um. It's a kind
of an evil point, but it's a good point, right yeah. Um,
(04:43):
So we're talking about sink Cole's here. This one's not
about tropical storms, hurricanes, mud slides, right. I alway should
mention though that our friends at co ED and Guatemala
are all okay. They sent word and we posted on
Facebook that they weren't affected and everyone's doing fine down there. Awesome, Okay, okay,
we're good. So what what what's the deal with the sinkhole? Josh? Well,
it depends on who you ask, schuckers Um. One of
(05:05):
our fellow colleague coworkers over at Discovery News, guy named
Michael Riley, had a blog post um that interviewed a
Guatemalan based geologist who's like, do not call that a sinkhole?
That is not a sinkhole. And he's like, well, what
would you call it? He said, I would call it
a piping feature. And I'm pretty sure the guy made
(05:28):
that term up. I think he did too. We did
a Google search for piping feature and it brought up
a description of pajamas, baseball uniform has something to do
with email possibly uh, and that's it. There's no there's
no geological feature formation or happening that's called a piping feature.
So this guy was like, don't call a sinkhole. Let's
(05:49):
all call it this term that I just made up. Well,
that's how you coin a term, my friend. It is,
But I don't think you need to be using Michael
Riley's blog to do it at the very least to
say and I just made that up, you know. Anyway,
um man made sinkhole is what I think it is, right, Well,
he What he was talking about though, was the the
the bedrock under Guatemala is actually old volcanic deposits, and
(06:13):
usually with sinkhole's what you're talking about is a different
kind of bedrock that's actually bedrock. It's not volcanic, it
wasn't just deposited thereby, you know, something spewing it um
and you have things like limestone, dolomite. Yeah, my favorite
mineral basult. Wait, how did we ever come up with
how to say that? I think it's basalt, one of
(06:37):
those two gypsum. Yeah, the the carbonate or what's the
other evaporate evaporate classes of rocks, right, Yes, that is
typically what is underneath what's called the overburden, and the
overburden is just the soil that's on top of all that. Right. So,
for those of you who have never tried this, if
(06:57):
you go out in your backyard and dig a hole,
eventually you're gonna run out of dirt and you're gonna
hit rock. Yeah, and when you run out of dirt,
you you can say I have dug through the overburden
and have now made contact with the bedrock. Right. And
the reason you mentioned all this is because that's how
sinkhole forms, at least this type of sinkhole. You have
(07:18):
to dig it up exactly the bedrock underneath the overburden.
It gets uh whittled away by water. This turns acidic
from absorbing c O two and interacting with plants, so
it carves out a little conduits, little pathways of sort
of like an underwater stream almost right, very much like that,
And then it loosens the soil, and then then soil
(07:40):
starts to fall down in these cracks. And although the
surface and the overbird may look okay up top, this
is why they seem to happen like overnight, there's just
a lot going on underneath it. We don't see right
for weeks, months, years. Sure, you know EON's that kind
of thing. Um. So when the when the water whittles away, say, um,
a chamber the future sinkhole, which you can also call
(08:02):
a cave. When you're going caving, what you're doing is
walking through basically a dry conduit sinkhole system. Right, good point.
So when the uh, the sinkholes formed right whettle away
by water and the overburden starts spilling into it, which
is called spawling. It's spawling, right, Um. That means that
(08:24):
there is much less of it above. It's like an
hour glass basically, yeah. Right, And then when somebody walks
on it, drives on it, builds a building on it. Yes,
that that salt, what appeared to be solid, is now
in the bottom of this hole. Yeah. And oftentimes it
can um that the what I called the overburden is
(08:45):
solid enough to hold up even though it might be
hollow underneath. It can hold up for a little while
if nothing is on it. But like you said, the
problem comes when something is planted on top of it,
like a car, right, And that's actually called a cover
collapse sinkhole. And that's what we think of like for sinkholes,
these really dramatic, sudden, holy cow sinkholes. Right. I would
(09:06):
like to call it the coolest sinkhole, but since you know,
people do die, Yeah, exactly, Chuck. There's two other kinds
of sinkholes, right, um that are slightly less dramatic. Yeah,
the cover cover subsidence sinkhole. Yeah, this is this is
possibly the least dramatic syncole. Basically it is, Um, this
is this is a very similar process happens, except uh,
(09:29):
you get the impression it happens much more slowly, right
Chuck was talking about. Imagine like, um, a straw coming
into you know those little nitro sock side tubes, the
little chargers. Yeah, for like for the little industrial arts
cars that you made sure or making whipped cream or whatever.
(09:49):
You know. Um, you've got a straw going into one
of those in a straw coming out. So it's like narrow, narrow,
fat narrow. Again, that would be like conduit sinkhole or cave, um,
because it's pretty much a cave until the top collapses. Uh,
and then conduit again. All right, So these conduits allow
(10:10):
water to go in and out, but as spalling occurs,
the the dirt, the sediment, the overburden the soil spills
into the loose parts right right, and it can clog
up the conduits. Right. So what you have then for
the cover subsidence sinkhole is basically just a depression in
the earth, but a dirt depression and a lot of
(10:31):
times they're not very big either. We're talking like a
few feet. Right. One of the ways across one of
the ways to deal with the sinkhole small one is
to fill it with sand and boom bang bam. Yeah,
that's what the Florida Management UH District says. And Florida's
kind of allows you with sinkholes because of all the sand.
But these cover subsidence. Sinkholes often turned into ponds because
(10:53):
rainwater starts collecting, it has nowhere to go because the
kinduests are blocked, and bam, you get yourself a brand
spanking new pond and it's good fishing. Yes, it is,
I imagine. Uh. And then the third one, chuck a
dissolution or solution sink coole. Are you starting to see
a pattern here? Not spilling, spawling, dissolution or solution sinkhole. Right,
(11:13):
it's a geology. It's like take your pick. Yeah that
these are um actually not as dramatic either, And that's
usually if you just have like a thin overburden that
washes away and the rhodes over time and umposes the bedrock. Yeah, exposed.
I always want to say twitch twitch after you say
bed rock each time from the flint Stones remember that, No,
(11:34):
you're like flint Stones. I mean I remember the flint
Stones and they lived in Bedrock. But what's the twitch
the that was the one episode where they had the
movie star singer come to town, Tony Kurt Rock or
was Yeah, and that was a song in Bedrock twitch
twitch I don't remember that one. Wow, showing my age.
I like the one with Mr. Rock She's a hot cartoon. Yeah,
(11:56):
it's so funny that all the names were like rock oriented.
Never figured that one out because they lived in the
Stone Age's just kidding, um. But the big rack of
ribs on the car that tipped the car where that
was normal? That was a Bronosurus rib rack. Yeah, that's
good eating. That's what they ate in the Stone Age. Yes, So,
like you said, you can get a new um, a
(12:17):
new pond when you have a dissolution syinnkhole. Is that
where we were, Yeah, you can get a pond from
that to Basically, the difference between a cover subsidence and
a dissolution sinkhole is one is possibly grassy right, the
other is exposed rock right, So a grassy depression both
can be ponds. Both of them have their conduits covered. Really,
(12:39):
when you think a sinkhole, the one we're talking about
is the cover collapse. Oh my god, save me, sink whole.
So we need to talk about human beings and what
we can do. There's actually those you know, a lot
of those are naturally occurring sinkholes just because of erosion.
But humans can actually contribute to sinkholes, uh, in a
(13:01):
lot of ways. Yeah, I mean think about it. We
talked about reservoir induced seismicity. Yeah, same deal, that's just
the tip of the iceberg. Totally. We are really screwing
with the geophysical properties of Mother Earth. I'm constantly amazed
every time I go to New York that New York
is still like a standing, functioning city for now. Yeah,
(13:22):
well it's true. Well yeah, let's hope it's keeps standing
for at least the next week exactly. Uh, drilling, Josh, mining,
um foot traffic, vehicle traffic, increased water flow, broken pipes.
The other thing that you know, we talked about humans
causing an earthquake, extracting water from the subsurface. That can
(13:43):
be a big problem CAUs sinkholes. So that's how man.
Those are just a few ways that man can create
one basically, and that's what they think happened in Guatemala,
right yeah, um, basically with plumbing, and we have the
same problem here in Atlanta. I'm a little nervous to
admit our sewer system is like a hundred years old.
Guatemala cities is not too much older, you know, or younger.
(14:07):
It's right about the same age. Um. So a sewer
pipe bursts, right and you think, well, okay, this is
very bad. Erodes the soil because of the water movement,
not just that it has it. It provides a double whammy. Actually, um,
it erodes the dirt and it actually gives it a
place to be carried away through that first sewer pipe.
(14:32):
So imagine the sewer pipe and then bam, it burst
and there's a big hole there. The spewing water, the
water pressure is just eroding soil above it, right uh.
And it's it's eroding the overburden and and then it's
also this big hole in the pipe is giving a
place for the soil to be taken away. So it's
eroding it taking it away, creating a cavern and the
(14:54):
bam and that's yeah, that's exactly what happened in Guatemala
City both times. Well, actually the I mean I read
today they said they still aren't sure what happened in
this most that's what happened, Okay, they said, the guys
that we have to descend into it to find out
what happened. The guy who called it a piping feature, No,
it was some other guy that you like better. Uh,
(15:17):
let's talk about Polk County, Florida. Yeah, I think we should.
That was a human caused sinkhole. And here's what's going
on in Florida. You know when you use for fertilizer
in your yard, which and you'd like to do, Yeah,
it's got phosphate in it, and about thirty of the
entire world's phosphate. Uh stash comes from Florida. So the
(15:38):
problem with this stuff is this radioactive Miley radioactive. And
so Florida said, well, well, here's what we're gonna do.
We're gonna stack it up and huge stacks, so it's
all in one place, and we're talking hundreds of acres,
millions of tons. The result, years later, in central Florida,
a billion tons of it basically created a sinkhole. The
(16:00):
weight crushed the sand underneath it and create a huge sinkhole. Right, Yeah,
Florida is already. Um what what's known as a CARST
region and CARST region is it's a type of topography. Yes, yes,
And if you want to see some cool video on
a carst on CARST regions, um, check out watersheds dot
(16:21):
org slash earth slash krst awesome stuff. Um and uh,
CARST region is basically it's a type of topography that
features a lot of caverns, sinkholes, um springs, all this
geological these geological features created by the movement of water. Right, Um,
Florida is lousy with this stuff. But then, as you
(16:43):
were saying, it had this extra added benefit of billions
of tons of FoST foot chips radioactive byproducts. And then bam, Yeah,
and in that one collapse in Polk County, the stuff
collapsed into the water supply and polluted the entire state supply.
Yeah that's not good. Well, it's not good. But I mean,
(17:04):
if I'm gonna go silver lining here, which I'm not
one to do. Uh, it did make them all take
a hard look at how they dispose of you know,
harmful byproducts. Right, They're like, you can't just stack it
up until it falls through the earth. They're like, well,
what should we do? Right, and they're still trying to
answer that one. Yeah, which I took. Took a lot
of money in time that would clean up their water supply. Yeah,
(17:25):
and chuck, let's get in our balloon and go over
to Barzynski, Russia. We haven't been our balloon in a
long time. I know it's got a little dusty you
need to clean up in here. I know there's a
dead raccoon in the corner that's creepy. Yeah, don't look
at it. Uh. And so in Barzynski, Berezni, Breznicki, Breznicki. Yes, yeah,
I almost took us to Brezynski. Jeez, that was close.
(17:47):
We're going to Breznicki Russia. Uh In uh I think
six They had another fertilizer related sinkhole problem. Right. Pot
Ash potash, it's actually pot that's what the lady said
on the pronunciation guide. Really and she said potash. So's
(18:07):
the robot, that's what we're going with. Yeah, six hundred
and fifty six ft deep, two d and sixty ft
LONGDT one ft wide and growing. So for our non
American non librarian. And then what Burma may be sure. Uh,
that would be two hundred meters deep, eighty meters long
(18:29):
and forty wide. That's a huge sinkhole. And the reason
was they were just removing uh, potash, potash from the
ground through mine and it became flooded. And that was
that question. The sink holes always caused massive destruction and
killed people in swallow buildings. Yes, no, not true. They're
(18:53):
actually a lot of times you're just kind of like
an annoyance. Um the ones you can fill with sand, right,
or ones that aren't around, um, you know, an urban
civilized area, like if they're out in the boonies, it's
kind of cool, like really cool. If we're talking about
the ones in Venezuela, the sorry sorry Nama sinkholes. Did
(19:15):
you see those things? I saw this picture of them. Yeah,
well I didn't mean literally have you descended into them?
But those are really cool because those are in the
Tapui region, these really high mass Basically it's like at
the top of a mountain, you'll just see a forest,
dense forest, and then these huge, perfectly round holes thousand
(19:36):
ft deep yea deep in these crazy oh yeah, these
crazy dudes like put the parachutes and jump into them. Yeah,
very cool. They did on that the Planet Earth. Um.
Actually I don't think it was there, but did you
ever watch that the Planet Earth Discovery thing. Yes, they
gave us that when they bought us as a gift.
(19:56):
It was really cool. But it has the base jumpers
jumping into these things. It's crazy. That's awesome. They also
have a say no taste. Yeah, did you see those
into loom? Yes, because they got a lot of them
down there, right, Yes, they do. They're everywhere into loom
and they're awesome. So basically that is um a sinkhole
that is now a pool, right yeah, and they're there
(20:17):
for some reason. There's I guess the water collects. It
percolates down from the top, so there's always a dripping sound,
and then it collects in the bottom of the sinkhole,
usually bedrock or light sediment um. But during the percolation
process it becomes purified. So it's this incredible like bluish
(20:37):
water um that's totally pure. We're just yeah, huge for snorkeling,
scuba diving, that kind of thing. And they're also very
um sacred places I guess among the Maya maybe um.
And there's like a big movement to uh preserve these
saint no tastes because they were they were believed to
(20:58):
be um um portal to the next world, and so
they'd like sacrifice people and stuff there. They are wicked
cool looking. I plan to go one day, okay and
tread the ground that you tread into Loom. There is uh.
There's also a lot of the ruins around on the
Yucatan or will have a saint note. Well, they have
(21:18):
ruins near to Loom, right, huh and then chuck. Lastly,
probably the biggest sinkhole on the planet is the Qatara
Depression right in Egypt. It's like three hundred feet deep
or four hundred and thirty six, yes, four hundred and
thirty six hundred and thirty one deep size of Lake
Erie basically. Yeah, but it's like seventy five miles wide,
(21:40):
which is add twenty kilometers. Yeah, it's it's not I
kind of expected more to Did you see pictures It
looks sort of just looks like a desert basin sort of. Yeah.
I thought it's not nearly as cool looking as the
ones in Venezuela. No, And if you want to see
cool picture of the ones in Venezuela. You can type
sinkhole into how stuff works dot Com. There's also a
cool flash animation on zero of how sinkhole's form and
(22:04):
really to sum up sinkhole's form, because water moves underground,
it rose erodes the overburdened above combat. There you have it. Okay, Um,
and I think I said handy search bar at how
stuff works dot Com? Right? If not, I just did,
which means it's time for a listener. Meant yes, Josh,
(22:28):
serial killers. I just need to say, judging from the
Facebook and fan reaction, that we have a sick and
twisted audience. I thought it was funny that a lot
of people felt they need to be like, you know,
not to be morbid or anything, but real coach, everybody
loves serial killers. Okay, just go with it. Before I
read these, Josh, I should just point out a quick correction.
Ted Bundy Um did his final Sorority House actions at
(22:52):
Florida State, not Florida, and I knew that too. I
don't know why I said UF Yeah, I thought it
was Florida the whole time. I'm not a big Florida
Gator fan, as you know, but I'm sure that had
nothing to do with it. You. Uh, we heard from
a bunch of people. Josh kind of jokingly said, if
you know of any serial killers. Turns out a bunch
of people have come into contact with surprising amount. Uh,
(23:16):
And so I have a bunch of them. I'm gonna
run down you. You want to read some of these two? Oh, sure,
I'll give you that page. Uh. This is from Solomon.
My mom told me a story when she was in
Washington in the late seventies. She graduated college, moved there
to work as a social worker in Seattle. She was
supposed to meet up with a friend one day and
co worker in her roommate, and they waited for hours
and hours, but they never showed. She spoke to her
(23:38):
co worker later and said the reason she never came
because her friend was missing. Turns out, long story short,
that she went to help a guy with a sailboat
and the parking lot buffalo bill style, can't help me
get this couch in the van. She got there and
there was no sailboat. And it turns out that this
guy was Ted Bundy and the friend was janics Ott,
one of his final victims. It's from Solomon. All right,
(23:59):
I've got a give one. This is my favorite. This
is from Justin. My grandfather once knew a serial killer.
They were in the same fantasy baseball league. I do
not know his name. Unfortunately, he was kicked out of
the league for cheating and his family left him, so
he resorted to shooting people in the head with the pistol.
The police had him cornered in a motel, so he
covered himself in baseball cards and committed suicide. That's from Justin.
(24:22):
I don't know about that one, just said at the
very least Justin as a great imagination. Yes. Uh. This
one comes from Karen h. Just a tidbit, guys. My
aunt's first husband was a corner on the Manson murders,
Tate la Bianca. I never met him because they divorced
before I was born, but my aunt always talked about
him during the murders. Her ex husband also founded the
(24:42):
Los Angeles Coroner's gift shop. I thought that was strange,
strange and awesome kind of the gift shop at least. Uh.
This one's from Megan. I just wanted to tell you
that my stepdad's brother murdered two people. They were my
stepdad's friends. My stepdad recounted always feeling a little odd
around his brother. There. He said the hair on his
arms and neck would rise when his brother would talk
(25:03):
to him. His brother's His brother used to catch sparrows
as a child and show firecrackers into their butts and
let them go after he lit them, which is pretty awful.
Thanks Megan. Yeah, that's part of the McDonald triad. I
would say, uh, two quickens here on Jeffrey Dahmer. Apparently
he had a bunch of neighbors that listened to our show.
(25:24):
Joel says, around the time of the killings, my mom
lived next door to Jeffrey Dahmers. She met him twice
and she said he seemed like a nice guy, but
a little weird. I would say so anyway, I just
thought I would share my little anecdote with you guys.
Joel and from Coal and Cincinnata says, my father went
to preschool with Jeffrey Dahmer. He doesn't remember him torturing
(25:46):
small animals or anything, but one fact sticks out. He
liked to walk around with his cheeks sucked in. My
dad said, picture someone making a fishy face. My dad's
theory was that Jeffy was saving his taste for human flesh.
But that's pure speculation. Wow, that is pure speculation. Thanks
for that. Checkov had a couple more, uh, if that's
(26:07):
okay with you, Yes, all right. There's one from anonymous
in Florida who wanted to give the attention to the
victim and not take any for herself. I went to
high school with a girl who became the victim of
a serial killer known as the Gainesville Ripper, Danny Rolling.
I wasn't close friends with her, but she was in
my freshman English honors class. So that's from anonymous. Kurt's
(26:28):
lived eight minutes away from Dennis raiders home the bt
K killer, and the house where he murdered one of
his victims is across the street from the hardware shop
where I shop. And it turns out b t K
Dennis Raider uh murdered more than three people over the
course of his career. Still kind of a poop poo
serial killer career, in my opinion, said I was, you
(26:50):
got any more? I got one more? Go ahead. Back
in night, my dad's best friend's family was targeted by
the Zodiac Killer. We recently met up with her daughter
and she told us the story that one of her relatives,
David Arthur Faraday, was killed by Mr Zodiac and the
fear of someone else being killed caused them to leave California,
(27:11):
which meant my dad lost contact with her. Thanks for
the podcast and fully expect you to to release new
episodes even after you are dead. Jerry. Slightly disturbing. It was,
especially in relation to the Zodiac killing and especially since
it was written by our own Jerry. Yeah, it was,
wasn't it. I got one more? This is from Leslie,
and Leslie has Josh known three murderers. Wow, and she's
(27:34):
still around. The First person Robert Bennett, a k a.
The handcuff Man, who I think was caught in Atlanta.
He lived just across the street from me in to
wand Up, Pennsylvania, and we used to sneak through the
alley beside his house to get to school and we
would sneak into his pool. Yeah, dangerous business. Second was
Eric Smith, a kid from Sonoma, New York, who murdered
(27:55):
a four year old boy. His grandfather was my science
teacher and a family friend. And finally, the recent murderer
I've known was Messak Dumas, who murdered his family here
in Naples. I worked with him for a while at
a restaurant and knew his wife from the grocery store
right shop. And that's from Leslie. So she's done three
murderers and good for her, Leslie. UM, keep your eyes peeled.
(28:17):
That's what I want to remain on point. I've never
known anybody who's known that many murderers before. UM chuck
tag teaming listener mail makes me feel like Michelle Norris
and Robert Siegel. Okay, Uh, and it's Thursday even so,
like the whole MPR thing's really going on. UM. Check
us out on Facebook, it's UH stuff you should Know
(28:38):
website in parentheses. We're also on Twitter, s y s
K podcast and uh. If you want to send us
an email about anything at all, just wrap it up
and ship it off to stuff podcast at how stuff
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(28:58):
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