October 31, 2013 • 30 mins
After her daughter and husband died, heiress Sarah Winchester became obsessed with the idea that spirits haunted her and to appease them she had to have a house continuously built for them. So she did - 24 hours a day for 38 years.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Brought to you by the all new Toyota Corolla. Welcome
to you stuff you should know from house stuff Works
dot com. Hey and happy Halloween, and welcome to the podcast.
I'm Josh Clark. Go do what you're about to do,
(00:20):
Chuckers and Jerry. Jerry's saying, uh, you put the three
of us together, me Josh Clark, there Chuck Bryant, and
there Jarry. And you've got stuff you know, the Halloween edition.
We got a big old tub of candy corn here
we got have you have you tried Starburst candy corn?
(00:42):
My goodness, I don't like candy corn and I like
Star Wars candy corn? Is it Starburster? Is it candy corn?
It's candy corn with star Warst flavors, but not Starburst texture.
No candy corn texture. Okay, some mad scientists threw it
all together. Interesting. Yeah, I'll try it. You got one?
I have a warm one in my pockets, been in
(01:04):
there for a few days. Perfect. Here you go, soften
it up there, that's delicious. Make a chewing Yeah, it's
straw strawberry and lin. Yeah, it's exactly right. Chuck. Uh. Yeah,
So we've got candy corn. It's a Halloween edition, and
we hope you enjoyed our Halloween episode, our story. That's
(01:24):
probably that's probably my favorite thing of the year that
in Christmas episode, we're gonna get cracking on the Christmas extravaganza. Yeah, work,
running out of stories, I'd probably and I got one
up my sleeve. I got an idea. Yeah, yeah, otherwise
we can just make stuff up. Yeah, you know. Yeah,
and then everything worked out okay because it was Christmas
the end, Chuck. Yes, have you ever heard of the
(01:49):
Winchester Mystery House? I have, Indeed, I have to, thank God,
because that'd be a surprise. If I was completely unprepared,
it would be I would be surprised. I can tell
you that. Uh yeah, I've heard of it. I've never
been there, but I would like to go for sure
and check it out. I might. I might do that
next time I'm in the Bay area, I might venture
(02:12):
towards San Jose to check this thing out. Yes, well,
I've already cleared it with you me that we're going
next time we're in the San Francisco area. Great, how
far always San Jose from San Francisco, I don't close, right,
Do you know the way to San Jose. I do
not know the way to San Jose apparently, um, but
if I could find my way there, we would find
the Winchester Mystery House, because apparently it sticks out like
(02:33):
a sore thumb. Um. It was originally in some pretty
rural area, and over time, the the acreage a hundred
and sixty two acres is what the Winchester House grounds
eventually covered, has been whittled away and now it's just
like the suburbs with this enormous Victorian mansion situated in
the middle of it. Yeah. And when we say enormous,
(02:56):
we mean enormous um supposedly about a hundred in sixty rooms.
Even though and I think this is part of building
up the lore, some say they cannot be counted because
you will get lost in the house and never get
an accurate count and never escaped. I say that's hoke
(03:17):
hokem because hey, if you can put a man on
the moon, you can count the rooms in a house. Yeah.
And what do you suggest using a post it note?
Just put a post it note up and yeah, you
don't even need to write that. And that's the very
presence of a post it note indicates you're you've been
there before, and counter all the post it notes right.
You could just you could write the numbers on them.
(03:37):
Even better, you wouldn't even have to count them. You
just write one and then keep in mind the last
number you wrote down the right, the next number that
comes after that on the next post it note, right,
and you know what we should do. It would be
funny if we did a little video series where you
and I a big smart guys, tried to do this
and we kept getting confused. I would watch that, Yeah,
I would watch that over and over, and then we
find the lost wine cellar and everything's kind of peters
(03:59):
out from there. Alright, So what we're talking about, well,
let's clue those of you who don't know what we're
talking about in we're talking about the Winchester Mystery House,
which was, as Chuck said, an enormous mansion of an
indeterminate number of rooms. I think they estimate a hundred
and sixty. But even um, the state of California, on
(04:20):
their tourism website says, um it is an odd dwelling
with an unknown number of rooms. A tourism website said
that yes, because there's a tourist attraction exactly. They're trying to,
you know, draw people in with the mystery of the
mystery house. Yeah. And the whole thing was the brainchild
and the result of a four ft tennant little uh
(04:43):
firecracker nicknamed the Belle of New Haven in her day,
named Sarah Party who became Sarah Party Winchester. Yeah, new Haven, Connecticut.
She's born in eighteen thirty nine, not new Haven, New Jersey. Um,
and she was. It's very smart, spoke four languages, can
play the piano like a champ with her elbows. Yeah,
(05:06):
she's beloved. Um. She married in eighteen sixty two William
Winchester of the Winchester Repeating Arms Company. Because it's a
big part of the story, it is they developed what
was known as the Repeater, the repeating rifle, which is
the coolest rifle ever. The Lone Ranger head one did
he according to the Lone Ranger placet that I had,
(05:27):
he did. I believe that he mainly used the old
revolver though. Yeah, and um the cudgel. Yeah, the rifle
famous for the rifleman used the repeater for sure. The
Lone Ranger did too, Okay, Um, But basically it was
a revolutionary gun that you could fire really quickly. Um.
And yeah, you could fire once every three seconds, which
is pretty amazingly fast for a rifle. Especially. It was
(05:51):
the gun that won the West, and it was the
gun that helped the Northern troops defeat the Southern troops
in the Civil War. And when the west depends on
your vantage point, yes, it was the The westward expansion
took place at the barrel of the Winchester repeating rifle. M.
So she marries William Winchester, heir to that fortune. Uh.
(06:13):
They started family in eighteen sixty six and very very
tragically lost their lone daughter, Annie in infancy, and it
was something that Sarah never recovered from. Basically, No, it
was a pretty sad thing to see if apparently the
child um was alive for either twenty eight days or
forty two days, I guess, depending on who you ask. Um.
(06:35):
So she made it the term she was born, and
then she died of a wasting disease called mora asthmus,
which is a disease of malnutrition. So no matter what
they fed her, she just wasn't taking in the nutrients
and she died of malnutrition. And at the time mora
asthmus was still mysterious, so it seemed like, what the
heck just happened to my kid? I'm feeding the kid. Also,
(06:57):
here I go right along the edge of completely losing
my sanity forever, and I'll never be quite the same again.
But I'm gonna come back a little bit. And then
when I do a few years later, my husband's gonna
die an early death at age forty three, fifteen years
later to be exact. And um, which, by the way,
can I take a second here? Somebody wrote in, and
(07:19):
I don't. I can't find the email, but they wrote in.
For our Dying podcast, we mentioned life expectancy and we
said that, um, you know, we made the assumption that
people used to um only lived at like age thirty
or something like that, because the average life expectancy was
so low. And this this person pointed out that that's
(07:40):
not the case. That people typically live to old age
like they live now. But the infanmortality rate was so
high that if you took all of the infant deaths
and all the people who survived it and put it together,
you had an average life expectancy of thirty. So it's
not like everyone's dying in their forties. They were dying
(08:00):
in their ones and twos exactly. So if you made
it out of your ones and twos, you would probably
live a pretty long life. So that was the discrepancy
that I never understood until the person wrote in. So,
whoever wrote in, thanks for writing that in. You didn't
catch your name or anything. I don't know. Uh so
where are we? She she's lost her daughter, she's lost
(08:22):
her husband, she's very distraught. Um goes and sees a medium,
which was a big deal at the time. Yeah, in Boston,
a man named Adam Coots, and which was strange that
it was a male medium. It is because you know ladies, um,
which is why they're all called lady so and so right,
you know, uh yeah, like you know, oh Madam, yeah,
(08:45):
or madam or like Lady Charlotte or whatever. Um, Lady Charlotte,
who I go too. That's why I buzz marketed her. No,
you don't, do you really know? Because see Lady Adam. Um.
So anyway, she goes and sees Lady Adam, and he said,
as you're gonna be haunted by ghosts for the rest
of your life because you married into a fortune of
(09:08):
killing and murdering with that Winchester rifle. Yea, So remember haunting.
You remember I said it was important that she married
um Mr Winchester. Right here, William. The Winchester family supposedly
had a curse, according to Lady Adam, that all of
the people who had died at the at the other
(09:28):
end of the Winchester rifle now haunted the family, and
they had a listed demands that Sarah was going to
have to put up with or else she would be
gotten by the spirits too. And that's where the house
was born. Basically, Yeah, the guy said, these spirits need
a house, so you're gonna have to build a house
for him. More and more people are dying from the
(09:51):
the rifle that your husband's family created every day, so
you're gonna have to make it a big house. And
you can never cease construction. If you cease construction, you'll die.
And there's two different interpretations here, and they're not quite
sure how Sarah Winchester interpreted it. But whether if she
stopped construction she would die, or if she kept construction
going she would live forever, eternal life. Because the people
(10:14):
who are into spiritualism, we're into that whole thing a
lot too. But either way, she had her her walking papers,
her instructions, um, and she decided to take them out
west and follow her husband, who who she believed was
leading her, who supposedly told her all this through the medium,
and headed towards California. Yeah, she visited head a Nissan
(10:37):
Menlo Park and eventually found a property three miles west
of San Jose and the Santa Clara Valley there, and
she said, you know what, I'm gonna buy this land.
I'm gonna take this house and I'm going to build
on it until forever. And Um, Lady Adam had a
his cousin was a contractor. That's not true. That would
(11:00):
have been great though. Yeah, It's like, so you have
to build and NonStop. Here's my cousin, John Hanson. John
Hanson was in fact or foreman. Uh even though Ms
Mrs Winchester was her own architect, So hold on. So
Mrs Winchester, um, who's just really slightly off a rocker
(11:21):
now at the loss of her child and her husband
has instructions that she is to move west start building
forever a huge house to how's the ghosts of all
the people who have died at the hands of her
um husband's company's rifles. That's where we're at right now.
Before we're going further, let's um, let's do a message break, Okay,
(11:49):
before we left, UM, I sort of hinted that she
was her own architect, and she was. Not only did
you hint it, you said it. Not only was she
her own arc deck. But see, she supposedly got instructions
on building through seances, right, And she had an architect
at first, but she fired him later on, apparently, I think,
(12:10):
because he wouldn't listen to her, and she's like, look,
I'm getting instructions from the other side, paler, are you
getting instructions from the side? No, Well, then we go
my way. So she had a seance room, and here's
how she would conduct her seance. Would try and trick
the ghosts into not following her and disrupting the seance um.
(12:31):
So she would set up for the seance room. Um.
She would traverse basically a labyrinth of rooms and hallways
like she would push a button and a panel would
fly up. She would step quickly into their shut the door.
She would open a window to that place, climb out
onto like a flight of outdoor steps that took her
(12:52):
down a story come back inside like through a window.
And she was basically trying to to lose these spirits
that she felt like we're tailing her until she could
finally get into her comforting science room where she would
receive instruction on what to build next. And then when
she got into a sance room, which was the Blue room.
It was at the center of the house and I
(13:13):
think the second floor. Um, she would get instructions I
think from her husband supposedly and then also a spirit
caretaker named Clyde, and she would get the instructions. At twelve,
there would be a bell rung. That's when the spirits
arrived at to another bell would ring, signaling their exit.
And she would do this every night and then in
(13:33):
the morning she would go meet the foreman Hanson, John Hanson,
and say here's what you guys do today, and he
would go, all right, but we should say that all
through the night, including at midnight at two and the
time when she was sleeping after the science and before
she met Hanson, there was construction going on. Yeah, and um,
like it was twenty four hours a day, sixty five
(13:56):
days a year, including Sundays, including holidays, there was all
somebody doing construction on that house. Yeah. She she apparently
like as long as she could hear those hammers nailing nails,
then she felt at ease. Um. She would uh design
rooms that would be built on top of other rooms.
She would build rooms apparently to get to those hundred
(14:20):
and sixty rooms. They estimate they may have built five
or six hundred over the span of those years. Right,
Because if there was something that got in the way,
she would either build around it have it torn down.
Sometimes there was even um it was even less explicable
why a room would get torn down, but she would
just order it torn down, even though say they've been
working on at a month up to that point. Yeah.
(14:42):
And the whole trick to all this is to pay well. Um,
if you weren't paying well, then you probably would have
had dudes walking off the job being like, you're crazy lady,
I'm out of here. Right. She paid double the day rate, yeah,
which is three bucks three Yeah, And so the construction
dudes were happy to keep working on this. What they
thought was this crazy old lady's plans um and they frustrating,
(15:04):
but that you know, they were getting rich or not rich,
but they were doubling their money, right, And I think
over time to Chuck, like, I get the impression that
the people who worked for her, both the construction workers
who you know, I mean like there would be once
they came, they didn't leave unless they were fired because
the money was so good. Um, so when you work
(15:26):
for some crazy old lady for twelve, fifteen, twenty years
or whatever, like, you're gonna start to develop a sense
of loyalty. And they they she was very much protected
from the outside world by these people because her neighbors
thought she was a total whacko, maybe a little evil
who knows what's going on? And she was very she
lived in seclusion. She always wore black, she always wore
(15:48):
a veil. Yeah, she uh. One of the first things
she did was had built a private had a private
planet around the entire house. But she was also very
kind of children, especially or friends would have them over
for ice cream. So it's not like she was some awful,
mean old person. She was just mysterious and liked her
privacy mainly. Yeah, And apparently once she moved into town,
(16:12):
um a lot of the local charities started getting anonymous
donations that they never got before. She and she of
course she didn't need all the glory, but she was
still very charitable woman. Yeah, she had a bunch of money. Um.
The reason she was able to pay double was a
big inheritance obviously about twenty million bucks and a lot
of stock in the Winchester Company, and um, it afforded her.
(16:35):
They guessed about a thousand dollars a day to spend
on construction, which it's like twenty grand now and change
a day day. And this is good money, mostly prior
to the era of the income tax. So like that
was all hers. Um. I mean, she ended up spending
I think five point five million on the house in
(16:56):
nineteen dollars. That's a lot of dough, it really is.
But she didn't have anything else to do with it
except give it away to orphans. That's true. So, um,
all of this construction led to some very strange design decisions.
And we should say this is probably a pretty good
point to say, Mrs Winchester didn't leave any diaries, any journals,
(17:18):
She was never interviewed. Uh. All we can say for
sure is that she went to a medium in Boston,
received these instructions that she had to build the house
to appease the spirits, and that's what she did. Everything
else is kind of conjecture, like her motivations. Beyond that,
the details of her motivations and what she thought and believed,
(17:39):
um is conjectures. We should probably say that, um, And
there's a lot of room for misunderstanding. Like the staircases
that she built had lots of steps and they were
like two inches high. Well, the reason that she did
that was because she had very bad arthritis, and those
are the only types of stairs that she could um climb.
(17:59):
But they would also double back all of a sudden,
or go around in crazy circles of A lot of
people say that she thought that you could kind of
screw with the spirits and throw them off your trail.
I guess on your way to the sance room. Um,
by having stairs constructed like that. At any rate, there's
a lot of weird design elements in this huge mansion. Yeah.
The switchback stairs, um were seven flights that rose only
(18:23):
nine ft forty four steps total. She had stairs that
would go down leading two stairs that went up stairs
that would go into a ceiling, chimneys that would stop
short of the ceiling. Ah, you know, hidden doorways covered
up stairwells. It was just sort of a big beautiful
mess of design. There was a there were doors that
(18:45):
led from the inside out to the outside, but it
would just be a sheer drop if you stepped out
the door, like that last step as a doozy right. Um.
There was an inside door in the sance room, a
closet door that opened up onto the kitchen sink another
story below. Um, there was a corridor behind a cabinet
that went along the backside of thirty rooms. It's just
(19:08):
all sorts of neat stuff. There's the very famous stairs
that lead to nowhere. Yeah, there were cabinets or only
like two inches deep. Um. There was a grand ballroom,
and you know, it wasn't all just wacky stuff. It
was like really gorgeous design in places. Um. The grand
ballroom was built without nails, which was a feat of
engineering in itself and was gorgeous, but never used because
(19:31):
of an earthquake that was pretty significant in her life
in nineteen o six, there was an earthquake that Um.
She was known for sleeping in different rooms every night
so she wouldn't be found out by the ghosts, and
she was actually trapped in the Daisy room and not
found for a little while by her employees because they
didn't know where she was after this earthquake. Cabin right.
(19:51):
Not only did the ghosts not know where she was sleeping,
her servants didn't either, So she was in there for
a few hours and it f freaked her out. Oh,
I'm sure, because despite the fact that it had like
totally killed a lot of people in ravaged San Francisco
and burned it down, she took it as a sign
that the ghosts were mad at her um, that they
were afraid that construction was nearing an end, and so
(20:13):
to appease them, she boarded up a lot of the
damaged um interior so that it could never be repaired
and then therefore the house could never be finished. We
should also say that by this time the house had
reached seven stories, and the earthquake was so bad it
knocked off the top three I believe. Yeah, she ended
up sealing the front thirty rooms of the home, uh,
(20:37):
including the front entrance to the home. These like grand
front doors that they had just put in. Apparently only
three people the two guys that put in the door
and her were the only people to walk through them.
Before she sealed them off forever Um. What she had
a beautiful tiffany stained glass window installed and then built
(20:57):
a wall behind it so no light could shine through it.
You can only see it from the outside, and I'm
sure it looks kind of dull. And then after the
earthquake earthquake, which I say freaked her out, supposedly she
went and lived on a houseboat in San Francisco Bay
for six years. And then when she came back there
was it was different Like before, there wasn't necessarily much
(21:19):
of a plan and so like if she ran into
trouble architecturally, she just teared the thing down or build
around the problem. This was like a different kind of
frenetic pace and it was just like build whatever wherever Um.
After the earthquake really got to her, just like crazy
person building. Yeah, alright, Chuckers, before we go any further,
how about another message break? Okay, So back to it, Um,
(21:50):
here's some numbers for you. Forty seven fireplaces, seventeen chimneys, uh,
two basements, six kitchens, ten thousand window panes, and four
hundred and sixty seven doorways and only two mirrors in
the whole house because of course, ghosts are afraid of
their own reflection, and apparently that staff would sneak hand
(22:11):
mirrors so they can occasionally see what they look like
after getting out of the shower. But she didn't want
have anything to do with the mirrors though. Yeah. She
Um also supposedly would fire staff who saw her without
her veil on. Apparently her butler, UM and her niece
were the only people who could see her without a vail.
And if you saw her without a vail, no hard feelings,
(22:32):
but you're cute. So we've talked a lot about the
fact that she worked as her own designer and made
all these weird, terrible choices that made no sense. But
we also mentioned earlier she was a very smart lady.
So she actually learned over the years more about design
and architecture and got better at it um and developed
(22:54):
a skill. And she actually had some innovations in her
home that were brand new at the time. Um. For instance,
they say she was the first person to use wool
for insulation. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Uh. They had carbide
gas lights in the house that had their own gas
manufacturing plant for the estate, which is brand new, and
(23:14):
she had electric push buttons installed to turn the lights
on and off. She had an inside crank to open
and close outside window shutters. First person to do that.
That eventually became the norm. Uh what else she had?
She I guess it was sort of green at the time.
She had drip pans under the windows and a zinc
(23:34):
sub floor in the north conservatory, so when you watered plants,
the runoff from those plants would be captured by drain
pipes for the garden below it. It's pretty cool. And
she had something called the annunciator, which is a servant
call system allowed her to summon servants from anywhere in
the house and it would drop a little card to
show the servant which room she was in at the time.
(23:57):
That's awesome, So it wasn't just crazy weird steps that
lead to nowhere. There were actually some innovations at the time.
And it's it's a gorgeous Victorian like when you look
at it, really really beautiful house. Yeah, and apparently the
construction by the time she died took up six acres
six acres of the house, not just the the grounds,
(24:19):
because the grounds are like a hundred and sixty acres
um And when she she dies, finally it's ao And
apparently the legend has it that she died at a
time when construction stopped. The workman took a break or
something to play cards and never started back up again
because they discovered that she died in her bed sleeping
(24:42):
ino and um. Right afterwards, she left up everything to
basically her nieces and nephews, and one of her nieces
I think, the only one who was allowed to see
without a veil, came in and was like, let's just
auction this stuff off, and um, it took six weeks
supposed to to get everything out of the house because
(25:03):
there was that much stuff and it was that difficult
to find your way out and you really got into
the interior. Yeah, and some really valuable things too that
were locked away in storage that were never even uh used,
like you know, furniture and furnishings, just sitting and wait. Basically,
didn't you say that there's a wine seller that's lost. Yeah,
I think they can't find the wine seller to this day,
(25:26):
which also sounds a little like lower to me. It does.
Why can't you find the wine seller? I don't know,
it's lost. Uh. It is a popular tourist attraction today
and um still being renovated and maintained. Apparently it's continually
being painted. The exterior is all year long. They finished
painting it and they start once again because it takes
(25:50):
sixty five days to complete the job. I would imagine. So,
and it's been a tourist attracting almost since she died.
Like the house was sold to a group of investors
who wanted to it as a tourist attraction UM for
a hundred and thirty five thousand dollars, even though she
dropped five point five million into it. UM and again like,
if you're interested in this, you can go check out
(26:12):
the Winchester Mystery House in San Jose. UM. They have
a website. I just imagine you type in Winchester Mystery House,
but also look up UM something called Mrs Winchester's House.
It's a documentary from nine kpi X I think is
a San Francisco television station. It's narrated by Lilian Gish.
(26:33):
It's just a half hour long, but it's really spooky
and black and white and just interesting. It's a neat one,
very cool. Yeah, check that out, all right, So we're going, okay,
let's go before that though, Chuck Um, if everybody wants
to read this article, you can type in Winchester mystery
House in the search bar at how stuff works dot
com and we'll bring this up. And I said search bar,
(26:53):
So that means it's time for a listener mail. Yeah,
I'm gonna call this a sexuality call back. I just
listen to your A sexual podcast. Guys, found it very interesting.
One thing really caught my attention. You said a sexuals
were classified there's a separate group outside the range of
homosexual to heterosexual. I think it could be different. So
(27:15):
Paul is proposing an idea here, instead of the range
being in number line with a subgroup that doesn't fit,
it should be more like a coordinate plane. Not all
people are equally sexual. I'm sure you know people who
don't really think about sex often, and then people who
it dominates a large portion of their lives. That made
me think that it could be a coordinate plane with
homo and hetero on the left and right, and a
(27:38):
sexual too extremely sexual. I want to say nymphomaniacal even
but I feel like nymphomania is more complicated than a
born sexuality, or at least we don't know enough about it.
To say whether it is. Yeah, so what is describing
as like a plus sign? Yes, the sexual orientation on
left and right, and then the intensity of your sexuality
going up and down exactly, so you can have uh,
(28:01):
high homosexuality, low heterosexuality, and so on exactly. It's a
good idea. I've actually seen that elsewhere to coordinate plane.
It just makes sense. He says, that way all the
people could be accurately plotted. It's to some degree at least,
not saying it would count for everything perfectly, but I
think it would clarified a bit more. Anyways, I'd love
(28:21):
to know your thoughts on that idea. You just got them. Yeah,
has it been done before or have you read about that?
I have not. I do not know. I saw in
a paper somewhere somebody proposing that similar thing that it's
um who was it the the sex study yer Kinsey
Kin Yeah that he Yeah, Um, they really kind of
(28:45):
missed a really obvious aspect of intensity rather than just orientation.
It just stuck the orientation dummy. It's a good idea.
I agree. So Paul of Uniontown p a ah, we
we think it's a swell Get to work on it.
Go Paul if you can call it the Paul Paul's
sexual plane. Paul's a one sexual plane and a girl. Yeah, uh,
(29:13):
that's good. Thank you, Paul, Thank you for that. And
if you like, Paul has some great thoughts ideas on
things that we've talked about, more expansive ideas. UM, we
want to hear them because we like that kind of stuff.
You can tweet to us at s Y s K podcast.
You can join us on Facebook dot com slash Stuff
(29:33):
you Should Know. You can send us an email to
Stuff Podcast at Discovery dot com and hey, guys, come
hang out with us at our website Stuff you Should
Have dot com for more on this and thousands of
other topics. Is it how Stuff works dot Com. Brought
(29:58):
to you by the all New Been Toyota Corolla
Brought to you by the all new Toyota Corolla. Welcome
to you stuff you should know from house stuff Works
dot com. Hey and happy Halloween, and welcome to the podcast.
I'm Josh Clark. Go do what you're about to do,
(00:20):
Chuckers and Jerry. Jerry's saying, uh, you put the three
of us together, me Josh Clark, there Chuck Bryant, and
there Jarry. And you've got stuff you know, the Halloween edition.
We got a big old tub of candy corn here
we got have you have you tried Starburst candy corn?
(00:42):
My goodness, I don't like candy corn and I like
Star Wars candy corn? Is it Starburster? Is it candy corn?
It's candy corn with star Warst flavors, but not Starburst texture.
No candy corn texture. Okay, some mad scientists threw it
all together. Interesting. Yeah, I'll try it. You got one?
I have a warm one in my pockets, been in
(01:04):
there for a few days. Perfect. Here you go, soften
it up there, that's delicious. Make a chewing Yeah, it's
straw strawberry and lin. Yeah, it's exactly right. Chuck. Uh. Yeah,
So we've got candy corn. It's a Halloween edition, and
we hope you enjoyed our Halloween episode, our story. That's
(01:24):
probably that's probably my favorite thing of the year that
in Christmas episode, we're gonna get cracking on the Christmas extravaganza. Yeah, work,
running out of stories, I'd probably and I got one
up my sleeve. I got an idea. Yeah, yeah, otherwise
we can just make stuff up. Yeah, you know. Yeah,
and then everything worked out okay because it was Christmas
the end, Chuck. Yes, have you ever heard of the
(01:49):
Winchester Mystery House? I have, Indeed, I have to, thank God,
because that'd be a surprise. If I was completely unprepared,
it would be I would be surprised. I can tell
you that. Uh yeah, I've heard of it. I've never
been there, but I would like to go for sure
and check it out. I might. I might do that
next time I'm in the Bay area, I might venture
(02:12):
towards San Jose to check this thing out. Yes, well,
I've already cleared it with you me that we're going
next time we're in the San Francisco area. Great, how
far always San Jose from San Francisco, I don't close, right,
Do you know the way to San Jose. I do
not know the way to San Jose apparently, um, but
if I could find my way there, we would find
the Winchester Mystery House, because apparently it sticks out like
(02:33):
a sore thumb. Um. It was originally in some pretty
rural area, and over time, the the acreage a hundred
and sixty two acres is what the Winchester House grounds
eventually covered, has been whittled away and now it's just
like the suburbs with this enormous Victorian mansion situated in
the middle of it. Yeah. And when we say enormous,
(02:56):
we mean enormous um supposedly about a hundred in sixty rooms.
Even though and I think this is part of building
up the lore, some say they cannot be counted because
you will get lost in the house and never get
an accurate count and never escaped. I say that's hoke
(03:17):
hokem because hey, if you can put a man on
the moon, you can count the rooms in a house. Yeah.
And what do you suggest using a post it note?
Just put a post it note up and yeah, you
don't even need to write that. And that's the very
presence of a post it note indicates you're you've been
there before, and counter all the post it notes right.
You could just you could write the numbers on them.
(03:37):
Even better, you wouldn't even have to count them. You
just write one and then keep in mind the last
number you wrote down the right, the next number that
comes after that on the next post it note, right,
and you know what we should do. It would be
funny if we did a little video series where you
and I a big smart guys, tried to do this
and we kept getting confused. I would watch that, Yeah,
I would watch that over and over, and then we
find the lost wine cellar and everything's kind of peters
(03:59):
out from there. Alright, So what we're talking about, well,
let's clue those of you who don't know what we're
talking about in we're talking about the Winchester Mystery House,
which was, as Chuck said, an enormous mansion of an
indeterminate number of rooms. I think they estimate a hundred
and sixty. But even um, the state of California, on
(04:20):
their tourism website says, um it is an odd dwelling
with an unknown number of rooms. A tourism website said
that yes, because there's a tourist attraction exactly. They're trying to,
you know, draw people in with the mystery of the
mystery house. Yeah. And the whole thing was the brainchild
and the result of a four ft tennant little uh
(04:43):
firecracker nicknamed the Belle of New Haven in her day,
named Sarah Party who became Sarah Party Winchester. Yeah, new Haven, Connecticut.
She's born in eighteen thirty nine, not new Haven, New Jersey. Um,
and she was. It's very smart, spoke four languages, can
play the piano like a champ with her elbows. Yeah,
(05:06):
she's beloved. Um. She married in eighteen sixty two William
Winchester of the Winchester Repeating Arms Company. Because it's a
big part of the story, it is they developed what
was known as the Repeater, the repeating rifle, which is
the coolest rifle ever. The Lone Ranger head one did
he according to the Lone Ranger placet that I had,
(05:27):
he did. I believe that he mainly used the old
revolver though. Yeah, and um the cudgel. Yeah, the rifle
famous for the rifleman used the repeater for sure. The
Lone Ranger did too, Okay, Um, But basically it was
a revolutionary gun that you could fire really quickly. Um.
And yeah, you could fire once every three seconds, which
is pretty amazingly fast for a rifle. Especially. It was
(05:51):
the gun that won the West, and it was the
gun that helped the Northern troops defeat the Southern troops
in the Civil War. And when the west depends on
your vantage point, yes, it was the The westward expansion
took place at the barrel of the Winchester repeating rifle. M.
So she marries William Winchester, heir to that fortune. Uh.
(06:13):
They started family in eighteen sixty six and very very
tragically lost their lone daughter, Annie in infancy, and it
was something that Sarah never recovered from. Basically, No, it
was a pretty sad thing to see if apparently the
child um was alive for either twenty eight days or
forty two days, I guess, depending on who you ask. Um.
(06:35):
So she made it the term she was born, and
then she died of a wasting disease called mora asthmus,
which is a disease of malnutrition. So no matter what
they fed her, she just wasn't taking in the nutrients
and she died of malnutrition. And at the time mora
asthmus was still mysterious, so it seemed like, what the
heck just happened to my kid? I'm feeding the kid. Also,
(06:57):
here I go right along the edge of completely losing
my sanity forever, and I'll never be quite the same again.
But I'm gonna come back a little bit. And then
when I do a few years later, my husband's gonna
die an early death at age forty three, fifteen years
later to be exact. And um, which, by the way,
can I take a second here? Somebody wrote in, and
(07:19):
I don't. I can't find the email, but they wrote in.
For our Dying podcast, we mentioned life expectancy and we
said that, um, you know, we made the assumption that
people used to um only lived at like age thirty
or something like that, because the average life expectancy was
so low. And this this person pointed out that that's
(07:40):
not the case. That people typically live to old age
like they live now. But the infanmortality rate was so
high that if you took all of the infant deaths
and all the people who survived it and put it together,
you had an average life expectancy of thirty. So it's
not like everyone's dying in their forties. They were dying
(08:00):
in their ones and twos exactly. So if you made
it out of your ones and twos, you would probably
live a pretty long life. So that was the discrepancy
that I never understood until the person wrote in. So,
whoever wrote in, thanks for writing that in. You didn't
catch your name or anything. I don't know. Uh so
where are we? She she's lost her daughter, she's lost
(08:22):
her husband, she's very distraught. Um goes and sees a medium,
which was a big deal at the time. Yeah, in Boston,
a man named Adam Coots, and which was strange that
it was a male medium. It is because you know ladies, um,
which is why they're all called lady so and so right,
you know, uh yeah, like you know, oh Madam, yeah,
(08:45):
or madam or like Lady Charlotte or whatever. Um, Lady Charlotte,
who I go too. That's why I buzz marketed her. No,
you don't, do you really know? Because see Lady Adam. Um.
So anyway, she goes and sees Lady Adam, and he said,
as you're gonna be haunted by ghosts for the rest
of your life because you married into a fortune of
(09:08):
killing and murdering with that Winchester rifle. Yea, So remember haunting.
You remember I said it was important that she married
um Mr Winchester. Right here, William. The Winchester family supposedly
had a curse, according to Lady Adam, that all of
the people who had died at the at the other
(09:28):
end of the Winchester rifle now haunted the family, and
they had a listed demands that Sarah was going to
have to put up with or else she would be
gotten by the spirits too. And that's where the house
was born. Basically, Yeah, the guy said, these spirits need
a house, so you're gonna have to build a house
for him. More and more people are dying from the
(09:51):
the rifle that your husband's family created every day, so
you're gonna have to make it a big house. And
you can never cease construction. If you cease construction, you'll die.
And there's two different interpretations here, and they're not quite
sure how Sarah Winchester interpreted it. But whether if she
stopped construction she would die, or if she kept construction
going she would live forever, eternal life. Because the people
(10:14):
who are into spiritualism, we're into that whole thing a
lot too. But either way, she had her her walking papers,
her instructions, um, and she decided to take them out
west and follow her husband, who who she believed was
leading her, who supposedly told her all this through the medium,
and headed towards California. Yeah, she visited head a Nissan
(10:37):
Menlo Park and eventually found a property three miles west
of San Jose and the Santa Clara Valley there, and
she said, you know what, I'm gonna buy this land.
I'm gonna take this house and I'm going to build
on it until forever. And Um, Lady Adam had a
his cousin was a contractor. That's not true. That would
(11:00):
have been great though. Yeah, It's like, so you have
to build and NonStop. Here's my cousin, John Hanson. John
Hanson was in fact or foreman. Uh even though Ms
Mrs Winchester was her own architect, So hold on. So
Mrs Winchester, um, who's just really slightly off a rocker
(11:21):
now at the loss of her child and her husband
has instructions that she is to move west start building
forever a huge house to how's the ghosts of all
the people who have died at the hands of her
um husband's company's rifles. That's where we're at right now.
Before we're going further, let's um, let's do a message break, Okay,
(11:49):
before we left, UM, I sort of hinted that she
was her own architect, and she was. Not only did
you hint it, you said it. Not only was she
her own arc deck. But see, she supposedly got instructions
on building through seances, right, And she had an architect
at first, but she fired him later on, apparently, I think,
(12:10):
because he wouldn't listen to her, and she's like, look,
I'm getting instructions from the other side, paler, are you
getting instructions from the side? No, Well, then we go
my way. So she had a seance room, and here's
how she would conduct her seance. Would try and trick
the ghosts into not following her and disrupting the seance um.
(12:31):
So she would set up for the seance room. Um.
She would traverse basically a labyrinth of rooms and hallways
like she would push a button and a panel would
fly up. She would step quickly into their shut the door.
She would open a window to that place, climb out
onto like a flight of outdoor steps that took her
(12:52):
down a story come back inside like through a window.
And she was basically trying to to lose these spirits
that she felt like we're tailing her until she could
finally get into her comforting science room where she would
receive instruction on what to build next. And then when
she got into a sance room, which was the Blue room.
It was at the center of the house and I
(13:13):
think the second floor. Um, she would get instructions I
think from her husband supposedly and then also a spirit
caretaker named Clyde, and she would get the instructions. At twelve,
there would be a bell rung. That's when the spirits
arrived at to another bell would ring, signaling their exit.
And she would do this every night and then in
(13:33):
the morning she would go meet the foreman Hanson, John Hanson,
and say here's what you guys do today, and he
would go, all right, but we should say that all
through the night, including at midnight at two and the
time when she was sleeping after the science and before
she met Hanson, there was construction going on. Yeah, and um,
like it was twenty four hours a day, sixty five
(13:56):
days a year, including Sundays, including holidays, there was all
somebody doing construction on that house. Yeah. She she apparently
like as long as she could hear those hammers nailing nails,
then she felt at ease. Um. She would uh design
rooms that would be built on top of other rooms.
She would build rooms apparently to get to those hundred
(14:20):
and sixty rooms. They estimate they may have built five
or six hundred over the span of those years. Right,
Because if there was something that got in the way,
she would either build around it have it torn down.
Sometimes there was even um it was even less explicable
why a room would get torn down, but she would
just order it torn down, even though say they've been
working on at a month up to that point. Yeah.
(14:42):
And the whole trick to all this is to pay well. Um,
if you weren't paying well, then you probably would have
had dudes walking off the job being like, you're crazy lady,
I'm out of here. Right. She paid double the day rate, yeah,
which is three bucks three Yeah, And so the construction
dudes were happy to keep working on this. What they
thought was this crazy old lady's plans um and they frustrating,
(15:04):
but that you know, they were getting rich or not rich,
but they were doubling their money, right, And I think
over time to Chuck, like, I get the impression that
the people who worked for her, both the construction workers
who you know, I mean like there would be once
they came, they didn't leave unless they were fired because
the money was so good. Um, so when you work
(15:26):
for some crazy old lady for twelve, fifteen, twenty years
or whatever, like, you're gonna start to develop a sense
of loyalty. And they they she was very much protected
from the outside world by these people because her neighbors
thought she was a total whacko, maybe a little evil
who knows what's going on? And she was very she
lived in seclusion. She always wore black, she always wore
(15:48):
a veil. Yeah, she uh. One of the first things
she did was had built a private had a private
planet around the entire house. But she was also very
kind of children, especially or friends would have them over
for ice cream. So it's not like she was some awful,
mean old person. She was just mysterious and liked her
privacy mainly. Yeah, And apparently once she moved into town,
(16:12):
um a lot of the local charities started getting anonymous
donations that they never got before. She and she of
course she didn't need all the glory, but she was
still very charitable woman. Yeah, she had a bunch of money. Um.
The reason she was able to pay double was a
big inheritance obviously about twenty million bucks and a lot
of stock in the Winchester Company, and um, it afforded her.
(16:35):
They guessed about a thousand dollars a day to spend
on construction, which it's like twenty grand now and change
a day day. And this is good money, mostly prior
to the era of the income tax. So like that
was all hers. Um. I mean, she ended up spending
I think five point five million on the house in
(16:56):
nineteen dollars. That's a lot of dough, it really is.
But she didn't have anything else to do with it
except give it away to orphans. That's true. So, um,
all of this construction led to some very strange design decisions.
And we should say this is probably a pretty good
point to say, Mrs Winchester didn't leave any diaries, any journals,
(17:18):
She was never interviewed. Uh. All we can say for
sure is that she went to a medium in Boston,
received these instructions that she had to build the house
to appease the spirits, and that's what she did. Everything
else is kind of conjecture, like her motivations. Beyond that,
the details of her motivations and what she thought and believed,
(17:39):
um is conjectures. We should probably say that, um, And
there's a lot of room for misunderstanding. Like the staircases
that she built had lots of steps and they were
like two inches high. Well, the reason that she did
that was because she had very bad arthritis, and those
are the only types of stairs that she could um climb.
(17:59):
But they would also double back all of a sudden,
or go around in crazy circles of A lot of
people say that she thought that you could kind of
screw with the spirits and throw them off your trail.
I guess on your way to the sance room. Um,
by having stairs constructed like that. At any rate, there's
a lot of weird design elements in this huge mansion. Yeah.
The switchback stairs, um were seven flights that rose only
(18:23):
nine ft forty four steps total. She had stairs that
would go down leading two stairs that went up stairs
that would go into a ceiling, chimneys that would stop
short of the ceiling. Ah, you know, hidden doorways covered
up stairwells. It was just sort of a big beautiful
mess of design. There was a there were doors that
(18:45):
led from the inside out to the outside, but it
would just be a sheer drop if you stepped out
the door, like that last step as a doozy right. Um.
There was an inside door in the sance room, a
closet door that opened up onto the kitchen sink another
story below. Um, there was a corridor behind a cabinet
that went along the backside of thirty rooms. It's just
(19:08):
all sorts of neat stuff. There's the very famous stairs
that lead to nowhere. Yeah, there were cabinets or only
like two inches deep. Um. There was a grand ballroom,
and you know, it wasn't all just wacky stuff. It
was like really gorgeous design in places. Um. The grand
ballroom was built without nails, which was a feat of
engineering in itself and was gorgeous, but never used because
(19:31):
of an earthquake that was pretty significant in her life
in nineteen o six, there was an earthquake that Um.
She was known for sleeping in different rooms every night
so she wouldn't be found out by the ghosts, and
she was actually trapped in the Daisy room and not
found for a little while by her employees because they
didn't know where she was after this earthquake. Cabin right.
(19:51):
Not only did the ghosts not know where she was sleeping,
her servants didn't either, So she was in there for
a few hours and it f freaked her out. Oh,
I'm sure, because despite the fact that it had like
totally killed a lot of people in ravaged San Francisco
and burned it down, she took it as a sign
that the ghosts were mad at her um, that they
were afraid that construction was nearing an end, and so
(20:13):
to appease them, she boarded up a lot of the
damaged um interior so that it could never be repaired
and then therefore the house could never be finished. We
should also say that by this time the house had
reached seven stories, and the earthquake was so bad it
knocked off the top three I believe. Yeah, she ended
up sealing the front thirty rooms of the home, uh,
(20:37):
including the front entrance to the home. These like grand
front doors that they had just put in. Apparently only
three people the two guys that put in the door
and her were the only people to walk through them.
Before she sealed them off forever Um. What she had
a beautiful tiffany stained glass window installed and then built
(20:57):
a wall behind it so no light could shine through it.
You can only see it from the outside, and I'm
sure it looks kind of dull. And then after the
earthquake earthquake, which I say freaked her out, supposedly she
went and lived on a houseboat in San Francisco Bay
for six years. And then when she came back there
was it was different Like before, there wasn't necessarily much
(21:19):
of a plan and so like if she ran into
trouble architecturally, she just teared the thing down or build
around the problem. This was like a different kind of
frenetic pace and it was just like build whatever wherever Um.
After the earthquake really got to her, just like crazy
person building. Yeah, alright, Chuckers, before we go any further,
how about another message break? Okay, So back to it, Um,
(21:50):
here's some numbers for you. Forty seven fireplaces, seventeen chimneys, uh,
two basements, six kitchens, ten thousand window panes, and four
hundred and sixty seven doorways and only two mirrors in
the whole house because of course, ghosts are afraid of
their own reflection, and apparently that staff would sneak hand
(22:11):
mirrors so they can occasionally see what they look like
after getting out of the shower. But she didn't want
have anything to do with the mirrors though. Yeah. She
Um also supposedly would fire staff who saw her without
her veil on. Apparently her butler, UM and her niece
were the only people who could see her without a vail.
And if you saw her without a vail, no hard feelings,
(22:32):
but you're cute. So we've talked a lot about the
fact that she worked as her own designer and made
all these weird, terrible choices that made no sense. But
we also mentioned earlier she was a very smart lady.
So she actually learned over the years more about design
and architecture and got better at it um and developed
(22:54):
a skill. And she actually had some innovations in her
home that were brand new at the time. Um. For instance,
they say she was the first person to use wool
for insulation. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Uh. They had carbide
gas lights in the house that had their own gas
manufacturing plant for the estate, which is brand new, and
(23:14):
she had electric push buttons installed to turn the lights
on and off. She had an inside crank to open
and close outside window shutters. First person to do that.
That eventually became the norm. Uh what else she had?
She I guess it was sort of green at the time.
She had drip pans under the windows and a zinc
(23:34):
sub floor in the north conservatory, so when you watered plants,
the runoff from those plants would be captured by drain
pipes for the garden below it. It's pretty cool. And
she had something called the annunciator, which is a servant
call system allowed her to summon servants from anywhere in
the house and it would drop a little card to
show the servant which room she was in at the time.
(23:57):
That's awesome, So it wasn't just crazy weird steps that
lead to nowhere. There were actually some innovations at the time.
And it's it's a gorgeous Victorian like when you look
at it, really really beautiful house. Yeah, and apparently the
construction by the time she died took up six acres
six acres of the house, not just the the grounds,
(24:19):
because the grounds are like a hundred and sixty acres
um And when she she dies, finally it's ao And
apparently the legend has it that she died at a
time when construction stopped. The workman took a break or
something to play cards and never started back up again
because they discovered that she died in her bed sleeping
(24:42):
ino and um. Right afterwards, she left up everything to
basically her nieces and nephews, and one of her nieces
I think, the only one who was allowed to see
without a veil, came in and was like, let's just
auction this stuff off, and um, it took six weeks
supposed to to get everything out of the house because
(25:03):
there was that much stuff and it was that difficult
to find your way out and you really got into
the interior. Yeah, and some really valuable things too that
were locked away in storage that were never even uh used,
like you know, furniture and furnishings, just sitting and wait. Basically,
didn't you say that there's a wine seller that's lost. Yeah,
I think they can't find the wine seller to this day,
(25:26):
which also sounds a little like lower to me. It does.
Why can't you find the wine seller? I don't know,
it's lost. Uh. It is a popular tourist attraction today
and um still being renovated and maintained. Apparently it's continually
being painted. The exterior is all year long. They finished
painting it and they start once again because it takes
(25:50):
sixty five days to complete the job. I would imagine. So,
and it's been a tourist attracting almost since she died.
Like the house was sold to a group of investors
who wanted to it as a tourist attraction UM for
a hundred and thirty five thousand dollars, even though she
dropped five point five million into it. UM and again like,
if you're interested in this, you can go check out
(26:12):
the Winchester Mystery House in San Jose. UM. They have
a website. I just imagine you type in Winchester Mystery House,
but also look up UM something called Mrs Winchester's House.
It's a documentary from nine kpi X I think is
a San Francisco television station. It's narrated by Lilian Gish.
(26:33):
It's just a half hour long, but it's really spooky
and black and white and just interesting. It's a neat one,
very cool. Yeah, check that out, all right, So we're going, okay,
let's go before that though, Chuck Um, if everybody wants
to read this article, you can type in Winchester mystery
House in the search bar at how stuff works dot
com and we'll bring this up. And I said search bar,
(26:53):
So that means it's time for a listener mail. Yeah,
I'm gonna call this a sexuality call back. I just
listen to your A sexual podcast. Guys, found it very interesting.
One thing really caught my attention. You said a sexuals
were classified there's a separate group outside the range of
homosexual to heterosexual. I think it could be different. So
(27:15):
Paul is proposing an idea here, instead of the range
being in number line with a subgroup that doesn't fit,
it should be more like a coordinate plane. Not all
people are equally sexual. I'm sure you know people who
don't really think about sex often, and then people who
it dominates a large portion of their lives. That made
me think that it could be a coordinate plane with
homo and hetero on the left and right, and a
(27:38):
sexual too extremely sexual. I want to say nymphomaniacal even
but I feel like nymphomania is more complicated than a
born sexuality, or at least we don't know enough about it.
To say whether it is. Yeah, so what is describing
as like a plus sign? Yes, the sexual orientation on
left and right, and then the intensity of your sexuality
going up and down exactly, so you can have uh,
(28:01):
high homosexuality, low heterosexuality, and so on exactly. It's a
good idea. I've actually seen that elsewhere to coordinate plane.
It just makes sense. He says, that way all the
people could be accurately plotted. It's to some degree at least,
not saying it would count for everything perfectly, but I
think it would clarified a bit more. Anyways, I'd love
(28:21):
to know your thoughts on that idea. You just got them. Yeah,
has it been done before or have you read about that?
I have not. I do not know. I saw in
a paper somewhere somebody proposing that similar thing that it's
um who was it the the sex study yer Kinsey
Kin Yeah that he Yeah, Um, they really kind of
(28:45):
missed a really obvious aspect of intensity rather than just orientation.
It just stuck the orientation dummy. It's a good idea.
I agree. So Paul of Uniontown p a ah, we
we think it's a swell Get to work on it.
Go Paul if you can call it the Paul Paul's
sexual plane. Paul's a one sexual plane and a girl. Yeah, uh,
(29:13):
that's good. Thank you, Paul, Thank you for that. And
if you like, Paul has some great thoughts ideas on
things that we've talked about, more expansive ideas. UM, we
want to hear them because we like that kind of stuff.
You can tweet to us at s Y s K podcast.
You can join us on Facebook dot com slash Stuff
(29:33):
you Should Know. You can send us an email to
Stuff Podcast at Discovery dot com and hey, guys, come
hang out with us at our website Stuff you Should
Have dot com for more on this and thousands of
other topics. Is it how Stuff works dot Com. Brought
(29:58):
to you by the all New Been Toyota Corolla
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40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.