August 16, 2018 • 37 mins
In 2018, there's a man from a lost tribe still living deep in the jungles of Brazil who has been all alone since the mid 1990s. He's referred to as the Man of the Hole, and has had no face-to-face with modern humans. Who is he? We'll answer that question as best we can in today's episode.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff you should know from how Stuff Works
dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark,
and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry Jerome Roland. Boy,
I'm not in a good way today, Chuck, you off
(00:22):
your game, as if you can't tell I think you're fine. Well, thanks, man,
I feel a lot better. Uh yeah, no, I'm okay.
I can tell you. I'm I'm surrounded by friends, family,
like your dad's corner. It's I have the idea I
(00:43):
have TV. Oh. Man. I instagrammed a photo of my
mom and dad from the seventies. Yeah, and um, I
captioned it, They're like looking at each other kind of lovingly.
And I captioned it, um, the moment before I was conceived.
You know what Jerry showed me that today. Oh yeah,
(01:03):
she did. I look a lot like my parents mixed together. Huh. Well.
The first thing I noticed was like, Wow, that's that's
what Josh would have looked like as a grown man
in the nineteen seventies. Because that profile of your dad,
I was, I was, I don't know, I've never seen
your dad young. So I was like, man, that's really
that's you. Yeah, yeah, I totally saw it. I saw both. Yeah. Yeah,
(01:26):
Because you look at my dad, You're like, oh, that's Josh.
But then you look at my mom You're like, oh,
there's there's Josh too. Very bizarre. Yeah I don't. I
guess I definitely favored my father. Um. Yeah, so a
lot of people just favored favorite one or the other.
But I'm fifty fifty. That's what we call you all fifty. Yeah.
(01:47):
I think that's a new one. There's a T shirt. Yeah,
um so, oh, I know the point I was making.
There's this how Stuff Works article that you sent called
them and in the Whole, and it talks about this
guy who is the last of his kind. He's as
as this article put it, like the loneliest person on earth.
(02:11):
And I was like, yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's
a lot like being in solitary confinement or something like that,
but no, this is way beyond that. And this how
Stuff Works article by j Lynn Shields like really drove
at home. She wrote, like, what if you were the
last person who could speak your language, the last person
who remembered what Halloween was, or a Coca cola, or
(02:34):
that a dog says Wolf, like, imagine that, and I'm like, yeah,
that's way different from being in solitary. Solitary confinement would
be bad enough. You know, you're physically restrained, but at
least you know out there that there are other people
who know the same things you know, that speak the
same language you speak, that your family is still out there,
(02:56):
that kind of thing. This is utterly different. And this man,
the last Tribesman he's called, or the man in the whole,
is possibly not just the the last of his kind.
He might be the only person on the entire planet
in the situation that he's in. Maybe isn't that bizarre
(03:17):
to think? Yeah, I mean we did a uh we
did another show on are Their Undiscovered People quite a
few years back and a deaf. I don't know how
he didn't get to this guy, but I saw this
article and it it was striking, especially if you've seen
the couple of videos, and I think there are only
two pieces of video of this dude. One I saw
(03:37):
where they were sort of shooting, you know, they were
zoomed in on a hut and that's you know, where
he lives. There's a series of thatched huts in the
uh Tanaru Indigenous Reserve in the Rondonia state of Brazil. Yeah,
about acres big area of the forest in jungle. So
(04:00):
he lives in these thatched huts that are scattered about
in the middle of nowhere, and they were able to
get him on film kind of zoomed in between the
cracks and you see the guy kind of looking a
little bit, but you can't make out much. So I
saw that video and then I saw another one where
it was a pretty good shot of him from a
distance making good work trying to chop down a tree.
(04:23):
That was the most recent video, right, which, uh, well,
let's just go ahead and get into this. He was
found or discovered and I think nineteen when some loggers
uh from the state of Rondonia, which from the impression
I have, this is a very rough and tumble state
(04:44):
populated by loggers and cattle ranchers and um there are
very few laws from what I understand, and things are
settled by the gun. Is the impression that I have
of Rondonia. It's right smack dab in the middle of
South America, and it's extraordinarily densely jungle in the Amazon. Yeah,
I mean that one new York Times article, like the
(05:06):
guy was talking that they were talking to said, from
a helicopter, you look down there and you think there's
just no one down there. It's just all jungle, he said.
About when you get down there, he said, there's a
lot of people and drug runners and bad men everywhere.
So this guy is definitely an anomaly because he is
not hanging out with anybody. No. And the reason why
(05:29):
they think he's alone, Chuck, is because back when the
rumors of like a wild man in the jungle started
to circulate um, they think that he had he had
just recently survived a slaughter that had killed off the
rest of his trial, which was only like supposedly five
or six people at that point, because they think the
(05:52):
rest had been slaughtered, and that that's a common thing
we're gonna come up on in a couple of these
as these ranchers and loggers, they're like, we want to
go clear this land, and there's a tribe, a native tribe.
They're an indigenous tribe, so let's just slaughter them, get
them out of the way. It's really really awful, awful thing,
and it's been a very common thing apparently since the
(06:15):
seventies and eighties when ranchers and loggers moved into Rondonia.
Um it just snatching up land. And this is again,
this is the Amazon. This is basically Christine Forest rainforest
that people who have never been contacted by any anyone
(06:37):
from the outside world live still to this day, and
this guy is one of them. So at first they
thought maybe he was just a member of a tribe
um that we already know about. And then over time
as they started to study this guy, it became quite
clear that now he's he's a member of a tribe
that we didn't know about before, and we're pretty sure
(06:59):
he is the last of his kind. Yeah. So there's
this organization called uh fun I f u n AI,
the National Indian Foundation of Brazil, and they have been
tasked with for the past twenty years monitoring this dude,
and before his companions were killed, monitoring his companions. And
(07:22):
you send a nice follow up on FUNAI. They have
a few departments and one is called the General Coordination
Unit of Uncontacted Indians the c g i I, and
that was established in seven and they're the only department
of government in the world which protects indigenous peoples who
(07:43):
don't have contact with the outside world or nearby tribes. Yeah,
because before in the like nineteenth century and even through
a lot of the twentieth century, there was it was
just basically Christian missionaries who were making their way into
the Amazon to contact vibes and bring them Jesus basically,
and also health care and food and all that stuff
(08:04):
tools the implements of modern culture, but also to proselytize too,
and there was a lot of UM. It just wasn't
very well thought out. And as a result, even even
from these these the best of intentions that a lot
of these missionaries had a lot of tribes died. So
in Brazil came up with their UM. I think it
(08:27):
was like the Indian Protection Services was the name of
the department that they first came up with, and UM
the Indian Protection Service they took over from the missionaries,
and it was a step up in that sense because
it was more coordinated. There was thought to it, There
was some sort of study, but the point was to
take um uncontacted Amazonian tribes and bring them into the
(08:54):
modern world so that they could assimilate with the modern world.
The point was to basely reduced cultural diversity in Brazil. UM.
And that kept going until the sixties when there was
a huge expose a about the Indian Protection Service UM
that they had just fallen down so terribly in their
mission that there was basically massive extermination, slavery, rape, everything,
(09:20):
every horrible thing that you can think of that could
befall a human being happened to these tribes under the
watch of the Indian Services Protection over sixty years. Yeah. So, Uh,
the department in the the gu c g I I
was founded by a man named Sydneys Passuelo. I guess
(09:41):
sow you pronounced that. And this was a big sea
change in policy, which was, like you were saying, the
previous strategy established contact to try and get them integrated
at some point, uh, to this new policy, which was
don't even contact these people and us they are under
serious threat because history has shown all manner of bad
(10:06):
things can happen when you contact these people, UM, one
of which is certainly introducing them to new diseases and
things that will kill them that they've never never seen
or experienced. Uh. And and this is you know, there's
a big debate still on like what the best policies
(10:26):
are here. Yeah, So these two Um American anthropologists, white
American anthropologists, men who I guess, wrote an open letter
in either Science or Nature I think Nature UM basically
saying Brazil and Peru UM should reverse this this longstanding
(10:48):
policy of of not contacting Indians UM in the Amazon
and should actually plan peaceful, well organized contact so that
that they can be better protected. It's these anthropologist stance
that if you don't protect them, they're going to dot
(11:09):
one way or another, that there's no way that they're
going to remain isolated. On the on the long term,
maybe you've got another generation possibly of some of these
tribes that could live like this. But beyond that, it's
just not gonna happen. There's too many powerful interests banging
on the doors of their preserved areas who are more
than willing to hire people who will accept money to
(11:33):
go kill these people just to get this land. And
by just leaving them alone, you're leaving them very vulnerable.
Whereas if you if you plan out contact, then conceivably
you can show them that there are things like medical treatment,
there is the better ways that you can protect them.
You can kind of give them contact, and that even
more so interviews with groups that have become have initiated
(11:57):
contact or have had contact made with them, said, we
would have made contact with you guys earlier, but we
thought we were going to be enslaved or murdered or something.
We had no idea that you wanted to actually help us.
Had we known that, we would have contacted you guys
decades ago. So those two things put together, these American
anthropologists have said we we endorsed this, and FU and
(12:20):
I and a lot of other groups, including the U
N and UH human rights group in the UK called
Survivors International, have said, um no, that is totally disrespectful.
That flies completely in the face of of agreed upon
procedure and protocol. Just be quiet, you're being neo colonialists. Yeah.
(12:40):
I think it's interesting though, because what they're trying to
do is, like you said, have very highly controlled contact.
And the assumption that they don't want to be contacted UH,
at least through their eyes, appears to be false because
like you mentioned, they're they're afraid of being UH kidnapped
or something or overtaken. And if had they known, like oh,
(13:01):
you just want to give us some nice tools and
maybe inoculate us UH and we we'd actually be down
with that as long as you leave afterward, right, And
these two anthropologists said, like, you've got to do this smartly,
Like you basically have to go in with cultural translators,
usually um tribes who have made contact with outsiders before,
(13:24):
already established contact that live in the same area, who
might be able to to translate between the outsiders and
the actual uncontacted tribes. And you need healthcare providers who
are going to stay there for at least a year,
at least a year of sustained care or else. Yes,
they're going to die from these diseases you're going to
(13:45):
bring in inevitable. Yeah, I mean they're they're good. They
give good examples too in that article about how this
is backfired with missionaries, like the your people they were
there for six months and the missionary said, well, let's
let's go on vacation, and then the Jora died a
few weeks later. And then in nineteen missionaries provided care
(14:07):
to a community on ok community. Uh, they took a
vacation and then they died as well. So they're saying, like,
you gotta have a plan to go in and stay there.
You can't just go in bring him some food and
machetes and spring break and then then get out of there.
(14:27):
But I get the idea that this is still a
pretty hot topic of debate. Oh yeah, I know that
those anthropologists, um, they they set off a huge debate,
and I think it was sparked by the the video
that was released by Survivor International of the man in
the whole um chopping down a tree. And the video
(14:49):
was taken in two thousand eleven, but they only just
released it in July of two eighteen. And this is, yeah,
this is very much still going on, this big debate,
and it's a huge it's a huge issue, and you
can you can kind of see both sides. Like I
had just read about food eyes um counter to it
that like, look, dudes, this is our thing, we got this.
You just mind your own business, we have our own policy,
(15:12):
stay out right, stay out of this. But then if
you read the anthropologists letters, you're like, actually, they have
a couple of good points here. So it's it's not
a clear cut, um uh picture one way or the other.
It's it's definitely there's a lot of of nuance to
it on both sides. All right, let's take a risp it.
(15:33):
Let's take a furlough or vacation and we'll come back
and talk a little bit more about the Man in
the Whole. Alright, So the reason they call him the
(16:00):
man of the Hole or the man in the hole
is the odd thing of inside these statched huts of
which he has, uh several around this area. Inside the
huts are these and all over the place there are
these holes with like spikes for like trapping animals. But
he has these six foot deep holes inside of his
(16:21):
own huts and apparently no no other tribes around him
have done this, and it's very unusual thing, and that
the belief is that he is it's for his own protection.
I guess if he's being fired upon or something by loggers,
he can jump down on one of these holes. Yeah,
that's the impression I have too, which is extraordinarily sad.
(16:43):
It is. So the reason why they think that Um
that he has these holes is because he's had terrible
run ins. I guess this This seems to be evidence
that he is the survivor of a slaughter massacre, because
this is not a normal technique that they've seen with
other tribes UM, and they found it at every single
(17:05):
one of the huts that they've come upon of his. Yeah.
They do know though from tailing him or monitor tailing him,
monitoring him for the past couple of decades though, that
he he hunts with a bow and arrow. He farms, uh,
probably at night and stays out of the you know,
as much as he can. Stays inside during the day
out of fear, which is also awful. But he farms
(17:29):
like papay in corn and other fruits and vegetables. He
has all these traps, said everywhere, like I mentioned, um,
they have found hand carved arrowheads, torches made from branches,
and resin. And at one point they actually tried to
make contact, yes, several points. Well, at one point when
they when they tried to make contact though, he he
(17:51):
fired upon them with his bow and arrow and actually
hit someone in the chest, one of the agents. Yeah,
and they were like, all right, we're out of here. Yeah.
At that point they stopped trying to initiate contact with
this guy. And again this is like peaceful contact they're
trying to initiate, not like hey man, get off of
this land there, like saying do you need anything, do
(18:12):
you want some food? What do you what? Do you want?
And the first few attempts to contact him resulted in
him just basically slipping into the shadows in the jungle
and just disappearing. Um. Then it progressed into standoffs. Then
it progressed into a shooting, and so they stepped back.
Survivor International and food I and some other groups step
(18:35):
back and said, this guy is escalating in hostilities. He's
showing us he doesn't want anything to do with us,
Like you. It would be something if like he'd shot
the first time and then slipped away the second time,
and and the hostilities were decreasing, but instead it's going
the opposite way. The hostilities were increasing. So he's getting
(18:57):
that he has the opportunity to contact the people who
are coming with their hands up and like not trying
to kill him. And he's still saying back off. So
finally the government said we're just going to back off,
and they backed off. The fun I established his policy
of not contacting this guy, not even attempting to contact
this guy, but instead monitoring him, making sure that his
(19:20):
preserve is um protected, and then leaving him things like
the acts that he was seen using in that two
thousand and eleven video. Or seeds for some of the
um the plants that he grows, which a lot of
times he doesn't even accept or take these gifts. Imagine
he's not real trusting. Uh And like you said, as
far as protecting the area, in two thousand seven, uh
(19:42):
Funai and the government UM eventually increase the area to
thirty one square miles around where he was is off
limits to any trespassing or development, later expanded to three
thousand hectares. So I think they added another three thousand
hecks okay to the already square mileage. And this is
really ticked off the ranchers and the loggers because they're like,
(20:04):
our business is being held back back by this one guy. Yeah,
and they want to kill him, to kill him. As
a matter of fact, in in when the government announced
that it was not only keeping up the practice of
preserving this guy's land thirty one square miles, but adding
an extra three thousand hectares, which brought the total to
(20:26):
forty two and a half square miles or a hundred
and ten square kilometers that this man has to himself
the five ranches that surround this preserve, UM hired somebody
to go try to kill him. Fu and I went
and checked on him after a couple of weeks after
that announcement was made public, and they found that their
outpost was ransacked and that um, they had found the
(20:49):
shotgun shells, spent shotgun shells in the fourth floor. So
there's clearly an attempt to mate on the made on
the guy's life, And for a couple of years they
had no idea if he'd survived until that video was
made in two thousand eleven that showed this guy who
was now fifty. They've been tracking him since he was
in his now, um chopping down a tree, Yeah, chopping
(21:10):
down a tree like it's nothing. So they knew that
he was alive and in good health as of two
thousand and eleven, and they're assuming that he's still alive. Man,
how good would a movie be about this guy? I
just have a lot of it play out in silence,
you know. Yeah, that would be amazing, It would be cool.
I mean, it's it's crazy to see a video of
this guy from seven years ago, Like in the world
(21:32):
we live in, to think about there's still places on
earth where this guy. It's almost like the Japanese straggler
who had no idea that the war had been over
for whatever thirty years living in the jungle. Uh. It's
just amazing to think about the fact that this is
the loan, the lone guy out there by himself, and
what his life must be like. But not not only that,
(21:56):
It's like like when I when when we did the
paramedics episode, I think I said something like, there's there's
no greater symbol of humanity than paramedics, you know. I
think this is another really great symbol of this guy
that well, well, no the FUNI Brazilian government's response to
this that this man has been has been part of
(22:17):
a tribe, it's the last of his tribe, and the
Brazilian government has said, this man deserves to live his
life out in peace in the way that he wants to,
in his traditional way, to be left alone. And we're
going to designate a d ten square kilometers that belong
to no one but this man, despite the fact that
all around him is it's the outside world trying to
(22:39):
press in. We're gonna stand in the way of that
so that this guy can live out his natural life.
That just gets me, you know, right in the bread basket. Yeah.
I think the Disney version of this movie is they
would find a alone tribeswoman somewhere, drop her off and
have them have them meat cute by the papaya tree. Yeah,
(22:59):
and the the ranchers want to tickle him. But if
it were live action these days, it would be um.
They would hire either John Wayne or Fisher Stevens to
play the last. Fisher Stevens here, I remember he played
the Indian programmer in Short Circuit. That's right, Yeah, geez, yeah,
(23:22):
that was as recently as the eighties. Right, It's not
like Mickey Rooney playing an Asian man in the nineteen sixties.
Not like that was any better. No, Bay Hollywood and
getting it wrong for so long, they have at least
Mongol got it right though, right, Uh maybe, yeah, we
haven't seen any Should we take another break? Yeah, all right,
(23:44):
We'll take another break and talk a little bit more
about some of these um isolated tribes right after this. Okay, Chuck,
(24:11):
So the last tribesman, the the um, the man in
the whole. He's being left alone. And that's policy in
Brazil and Peru from what I understand now, Um, there
are some tribes that have actually um accepted contact and
it made peaceful contact and it become um, I guess
(24:34):
a little more integrated. I think there's three degrees that
fun I separates tribes into indigenous tribes into there's totally uncontacted,
which is like they are living off on their own.
They outside world has nothing to do with them. There's
um partially contacted or partially assimilated, right like they they're
(24:58):
they're living in their hut in the jungle, but they
still have an iPhone, right um. And then there's fully assimilated,
where they like live in a city now or something
like that, or they have like a job in the
city or something like that. Um. So it's not just
in the Amazon. It's not just in Brazil where there
are uncontacted tribes, although that is definitely the place where
(25:22):
you're going to find the most. I think I saw
somewhere between fifty eighty and a hundred and twenty uncontacted
groups of indigenous people are presumed to be living in
the Amazon still today. Yeah, I mean just those that
random swath of numbers shows you that they there's still
so much they don't know for sure, but there's there
(25:44):
are other parts of the world where there are uncontacted
tribes um, and you found an article that ran down
a few of them. One that surprised me was just
um off the coast of India on Sentinel Island in India,
North Sentinel cracked our iCal which may have been done
under the watch of our now colleague, Mr Jack O'Brien.
(26:07):
Nice shout out to Jack and as Daily Zeitgey Zitgey's podcast, Yeah,
which I was on. Have you been on John On?
You gotta be on. It's great, great fun. It's a
matter of fact, I'm gonna lap you. I'm gonna go
on again. Well please do all right? Yeah, But the
Sintinnales on North Sentinel Island, Indian they don't even know
(26:27):
if that's their real name. They just call them that
because I guess we have called it North Sentinel Island,
not you and me, but other people who named it,
I think the British, but apparently yeah, probably, Uh. We
don't know a lot about them. But in two thousand
and six a couple of fishermen drifted there in their
boat ah near the island and were killed and buried
(26:50):
in shallow graves, and helicopters came and they were like,
we gotta find this burial site and get these guys
back at least, and they started firing arrows at the
helicopter and it was just out of there, and the
local cops were like, now, we're just gonna leave those
guys there. We're not We're not going near it. They
have actually for this is a This has been going
(27:12):
on for a very long time. Apparently Marco polo Um
remarked on them, wrote about them that he was traveling
and I think the twelve century. So they've been fierce
for years now and apparently survived the two thousand four
tsunami in Indonesia's tsunami. That's crazy because this is an
(27:34):
island that the tsunami just swamped and they managed to
hang on just fine. I think ancient people have survived
more than one tsunami, you know. I guess you're right.
That was a pretty bad one though, Yeah, pretty amazing. Uh.
This other one, the coral Y tribe of Papua, Indonesia.
They were contacted in the seventies by of course missionaries
(27:56):
an archaeologist and they were using stone tools and living
in ree huts and stuff like that, and they're a
big belief as a tribe was that the world would
be destroyed by an earthquake if they assimilated and change
their customs. So missionary said, all right, you know what,
We're just gonna leave you alone. What I think these
(28:16):
people might have invented, um bungee jumping. Do you remember
land diving episode? They sound really familiar. I think it
might be maybe so, But they are in the middle
of nowhere, so it's a it's a long way from
even like other remote villages, which is a I mean,
that's a that's a mark in your favor for now.
(28:37):
But as the Amazon Basin has been showing us since
the seventies and eighties, so much of it has disappeared
due to clear cutting, for ranching, logging. Um that that
how you just have no idea how much longer that's
going to hold up, no matter where you are in
the world. I mean, we're at seven and a half
(29:00):
billion people now, and then I think the next thirty
years we're expected to hit ten billion. That's a lot
more people that not only need more land, but also
are going to be using up those resources that that
that are currently on that land right now, you know,
I mean, like if they discover oil where the Cora
white tribe lives in Indonesia. There goes that isolation, you know,
(29:26):
and I think that's a that's a real danger for
all tribes. I think that's probably what those two anthropologists
were talking about. Um, they're saying, like, long term, we
need a plan here everybody. We can't just be like, well,
we just won't contact them because it's just not viable,
I think was their point. What about that? This one
really was interesting to me. The Old Believers. Have you
(29:47):
ever heard of them? Yeah, there's like some g Q
article in the last couple of years about that. I
think so in bur lap apparently, Yeah, these are Soviet Uh. Well,
here's the deal in ight, there were these geologists in
the Soviet Union that we're looking for iron ore. Uh.
(30:07):
They were in a helicopter and they saw a cabin
way out in the remote areas of Siberia, and they
found a family there that actually spoke a language I guess,
I mean, what would that be old timey Russian? Old
timey Russian? Uh huh uh. And they were were huddled
(30:29):
in fear and they were yelling, this is for our sins.
They were dressed in burlap and living off the land
and Apparently they were a group of people called the
Old Believers, which left the Russian Church, the main Russian
Church in the seventeenth century and had been I guess
looked at you know, they kind of went everywhere. It
(30:51):
was sort of a diaspora for the Old Believers. Some
of them just went to other countries and seeking asylum
or whatever. And apparently some of them just looked aside
area and we're like, no one's there, so we'll go there. Nice.
It sounds creepy though, the Old Believers. Oh yeah, that's
a terrible name for him. You know. It seems like
(31:11):
they could scan you or something to make your head explode.
Are they worship Cthulhu or something? So Um, I almost
feel like if we should look into them a little more,
because I think they could probably hold up their own up.
I think you might be right. I also remember hearing
about families that lived in the Ozark Mountains in um
the midwest of the United States. Um, I think around
(31:34):
Arkansas that had been out of contact. I didn't even
know the Civil War it happened. They were just that isolated.
So yeah, you tend to think of it as just
strictly indigenous peoples and that it's just in the Amazon,
but like there's there's groups all over the world's fewer
and further between outside of the Amazon because there's less
unpopulated areas, but it happens. And one of the sad
(31:57):
things about all of this is, Uh, for one of
these other tribes that you know, you can go read
this cracked article. What's it called? I didn't see the
title actually is just suddenly there were oh five isolated
groups who had no idea that civilization existed. Correct correct
lists were always so great, are always so great. They've
come in handy from time to time. But one of
(32:18):
the sad things I point out for one of these
other tribes is that in Peru and imagine in some
other South American countries, there are these awful things called
human safari's where and they will take tourists around to
like look at uncontacted tribes from Afar and close up.
They're like, here, drained some of this io husk it
(32:39):
through your nose, and we're going to go check out
some some tribes hanging out on a river bank somewhere. Man,
So weird. Uh, Why I want to add one more thing.
I came across an article that wasn't really apropos of
what we were talking about, called the Right to Kill
on Foreign Policy Magazine, and it's about like this other
(32:59):
tan gentile issue that governments like Brazil have to deal with,
which is like, some of these isolated groups practice things
that the outside world finds abhorrent or is illegal in
the outside world. Um, specifically, in this article, infant aside.
If you're born with the disability and I think about
(33:21):
twenty of of Brazil's isolated tribes, there's a chance that
the community will decide that you need to die again.
It's the practice of infantaside. And Brazil is like, we
are not quite sure what to do about this, because
our constitution guarantees everyone in Brazil the right to live,
but it also guarantees the indigenous groups the right to
(33:44):
live according to their customs. So they have no idea
what to do. And it's a big thing about, you know,
moral relativism or moral absolutism and which one is correct. Uh.
And it's really interesting that they're having to think about
this right now. It's a really interesting article that's worth reading. Okay,
I will check it out. Are you talking to me? Yeah,
(34:04):
I'm talking to everybody, but specifically. Yeah. Um, well, if
you want to know more about isolated tribes, you can
look those words up anywhere on the internet and they're
going to deliver you some amazing stuff. And since I
said that, it's time for listener mail. Since you said
amazing stuff, mhm uh, well look at here, dude, I
(34:27):
have a handwritten letter on construction paper. Beautiful. Yeah, I
love it. Hey, guys, I hope this finds you. Well.
My name is Claire and I'm twenty one. In fact,
for my twenty first birthday, I came and saw you
guys live in Cleveland. Awesome. That was a great it was.
I got to here in college and I'm studying mathematics
(34:47):
with a license and education, so I'll be teaching high
school math. It's been a fan since two thousand fifteen.
Thank you for the many nights uh you have calmed
me and all the information I've learned. And I've been
wanting to for a while just to say thanks uh
and sent appreciation, but also a request and a little something.
Whenever you talk about math in any regard, please be
(35:10):
more positive, Please stop getting it wrong, Please be more
positive and encouraging. Uh. We're well known for poopooing math
and saying I hated math. Well, it's so intimidating, it's
just so stupid, it is, But she says this math
is hard and already has a stigma for people who
hate it or to hate it. But as a future educator,
(35:31):
since you two are sort of educators, require that reach
a huge audience, your outlook and attitude about math is important.
It's okay did not like math and think that it's hard,
but know that you and anyone can do math. I
know it's a silly thing to ask and point out,
but I think you could both as a have a
positive impact on the math stigma. I wish you and
(35:52):
your wives and Chuck your daughter all the best. Thank
you for all of your hard work, and thank Jerry too.
Jerry has to put up with you two all the time,
so she's definitely been working hard. And she writes sarcasm,
smiley face the fabulous day, and that is from Claire
and Claire, You're right, we just joke around, but we
we should take more care with our words about the maths.
(36:14):
You know what, Frankly, Chuck, I think Ms Claire makes
a great point that we should just basically take all
the jokes out of our podcast entirely, just so no
one get takes it the wrong way. Just make it
nice and neutral. She is right, though, she is right,
we should take it easy on math, she very nicely said,
(36:35):
back off math. Yeah, like did she draw a little
Yosemite sam at the bottom there? Yeah? Look at that
and nice. Well, if you want to get in touch
with this, like Claire did, you can go to your
local post office. We love that place. And you can
also instead go to the internet go to stuff you
Shao dot com. Find all of our social media links there,
(36:57):
or you can send us a new fangled electronic mail
by addressing it to Stuff podcast and how Stuff Works
dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics.
Does it how stuff works dot com
Welcome to Stuff you should know from how Stuff Works
dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark,
and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry Jerome Roland. Boy,
I'm not in a good way today, Chuck, you off
(00:22):
your game, as if you can't tell I think you're fine. Well, thanks, man,
I feel a lot better. Uh yeah, no, I'm okay.
I can tell you. I'm I'm surrounded by friends, family,
like your dad's corner. It's I have the idea I
(00:43):
have TV. Oh. Man. I instagrammed a photo of my
mom and dad from the seventies. Yeah, and um, I
captioned it, They're like looking at each other kind of lovingly.
And I captioned it, um, the moment before I was conceived.
You know what Jerry showed me that today. Oh yeah,
(01:03):
she did. I look a lot like my parents mixed together. Huh. Well.
The first thing I noticed was like, Wow, that's that's
what Josh would have looked like as a grown man
in the nineteen seventies. Because that profile of your dad,
I was, I was, I don't know, I've never seen
your dad young. So I was like, man, that's really
that's you. Yeah, yeah, I totally saw it. I saw both. Yeah. Yeah,
(01:26):
Because you look at my dad, You're like, oh, that's Josh.
But then you look at my mom You're like, oh,
there's there's Josh too. Very bizarre. Yeah I don't. I
guess I definitely favored my father. Um. Yeah, so a
lot of people just favored favorite one or the other.
But I'm fifty fifty. That's what we call you all fifty. Yeah.
(01:47):
I think that's a new one. There's a T shirt. Yeah,
um so, oh, I know the point I was making.
There's this how Stuff Works article that you sent called
them and in the Whole, and it talks about this
guy who is the last of his kind. He's as
as this article put it, like the loneliest person on earth.
(02:11):
And I was like, yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's
a lot like being in solitary confinement or something like that,
but no, this is way beyond that. And this how
Stuff Works article by j Lynn Shields like really drove
at home. She wrote, like, what if you were the
last person who could speak your language, the last person
who remembered what Halloween was, or a Coca cola, or
(02:34):
that a dog says Wolf, like, imagine that, and I'm like, yeah,
that's way different from being in solitary. Solitary confinement would
be bad enough. You know, you're physically restrained, but at
least you know out there that there are other people
who know the same things you know, that speak the
same language you speak, that your family is still out there,
(02:56):
that kind of thing. This is utterly different. And this man,
the last Tribesman he's called, or the man in the whole,
is possibly not just the the last of his kind.
He might be the only person on the entire planet
in the situation that he's in. Maybe isn't that bizarre
(03:17):
to think? Yeah, I mean we did a uh we
did another show on are Their Undiscovered People quite a
few years back and a deaf. I don't know how
he didn't get to this guy, but I saw this
article and it it was striking, especially if you've seen
the couple of videos, and I think there are only
two pieces of video of this dude. One I saw
(03:37):
where they were sort of shooting, you know, they were
zoomed in on a hut and that's you know, where
he lives. There's a series of thatched huts in the
uh Tanaru Indigenous Reserve in the Rondonia state of Brazil. Yeah,
about acres big area of the forest in jungle. So
(04:00):
he lives in these thatched huts that are scattered about
in the middle of nowhere, and they were able to
get him on film kind of zoomed in between the
cracks and you see the guy kind of looking a
little bit, but you can't make out much. So I
saw that video and then I saw another one where
it was a pretty good shot of him from a
distance making good work trying to chop down a tree.
(04:23):
That was the most recent video, right, which, uh, well,
let's just go ahead and get into this. He was
found or discovered and I think nineteen when some loggers
uh from the state of Rondonia, which from the impression
I have, this is a very rough and tumble state
(04:44):
populated by loggers and cattle ranchers and um there are
very few laws from what I understand, and things are
settled by the gun. Is the impression that I have
of Rondonia. It's right smack dab in the middle of
South America, and it's extraordinarily densely jungle in the Amazon. Yeah,
I mean that one new York Times article, like the
(05:06):
guy was talking that they were talking to said, from
a helicopter, you look down there and you think there's
just no one down there. It's just all jungle, he said.
About when you get down there, he said, there's a
lot of people and drug runners and bad men everywhere.
So this guy is definitely an anomaly because he is
not hanging out with anybody. No. And the reason why
(05:29):
they think he's alone, Chuck, is because back when the
rumors of like a wild man in the jungle started
to circulate um, they think that he had he had
just recently survived a slaughter that had killed off the
rest of his trial, which was only like supposedly five
or six people at that point, because they think the
(05:52):
rest had been slaughtered, and that that's a common thing
we're gonna come up on in a couple of these
as these ranchers and loggers, they're like, we want to
go clear this land, and there's a tribe, a native tribe.
They're an indigenous tribe, so let's just slaughter them, get
them out of the way. It's really really awful, awful thing,
and it's been a very common thing apparently since the
(06:15):
seventies and eighties when ranchers and loggers moved into Rondonia.
Um it just snatching up land. And this is again,
this is the Amazon. This is basically Christine Forest rainforest
that people who have never been contacted by any anyone
(06:37):
from the outside world live still to this day, and
this guy is one of them. So at first they
thought maybe he was just a member of a tribe
um that we already know about. And then over time
as they started to study this guy, it became quite
clear that now he's he's a member of a tribe
that we didn't know about before, and we're pretty sure
(06:59):
he is the last of his kind. Yeah. So there's
this organization called uh fun I f u n AI,
the National Indian Foundation of Brazil, and they have been
tasked with for the past twenty years monitoring this dude,
and before his companions were killed, monitoring his companions. And
(07:22):
you send a nice follow up on FUNAI. They have
a few departments and one is called the General Coordination
Unit of Uncontacted Indians the c g i I, and
that was established in seven and they're the only department
of government in the world which protects indigenous peoples who
(07:43):
don't have contact with the outside world or nearby tribes. Yeah,
because before in the like nineteenth century and even through
a lot of the twentieth century, there was it was
just basically Christian missionaries who were making their way into
the Amazon to contact vibes and bring them Jesus basically,
and also health care and food and all that stuff
(08:04):
tools the implements of modern culture, but also to proselytize too,
and there was a lot of UM. It just wasn't
very well thought out. And as a result, even even
from these these the best of intentions that a lot
of these missionaries had a lot of tribes died. So
in Brazil came up with their UM. I think it
(08:27):
was like the Indian Protection Services was the name of
the department that they first came up with, and UM
the Indian Protection Service they took over from the missionaries,
and it was a step up in that sense because
it was more coordinated. There was thought to it, There
was some sort of study, but the point was to
take um uncontacted Amazonian tribes and bring them into the
(08:54):
modern world so that they could assimilate with the modern world.
The point was to basely reduced cultural diversity in Brazil. UM.
And that kept going until the sixties when there was
a huge expose a about the Indian Protection Service UM
that they had just fallen down so terribly in their
mission that there was basically massive extermination, slavery, rape, everything,
(09:20):
every horrible thing that you can think of that could
befall a human being happened to these tribes under the
watch of the Indian Services Protection over sixty years. Yeah. So, Uh,
the department in the the gu c g I I
was founded by a man named Sydneys Passuelo. I guess
(09:41):
sow you pronounced that. And this was a big sea
change in policy, which was, like you were saying, the
previous strategy established contact to try and get them integrated
at some point, uh, to this new policy, which was
don't even contact these people and us they are under
serious threat because history has shown all manner of bad
(10:06):
things can happen when you contact these people, UM, one
of which is certainly introducing them to new diseases and
things that will kill them that they've never never seen
or experienced. Uh. And and this is you know, there's
a big debate still on like what the best policies
(10:26):
are here. Yeah, So these two Um American anthropologists, white
American anthropologists, men who I guess, wrote an open letter
in either Science or Nature I think Nature UM basically
saying Brazil and Peru UM should reverse this this longstanding
(10:48):
policy of of not contacting Indians UM in the Amazon
and should actually plan peaceful, well organized contact so that
that they can be better protected. It's these anthropologist stance
that if you don't protect them, they're going to dot
(11:09):
one way or another, that there's no way that they're
going to remain isolated. On the on the long term,
maybe you've got another generation possibly of some of these
tribes that could live like this. But beyond that, it's
just not gonna happen. There's too many powerful interests banging
on the doors of their preserved areas who are more
than willing to hire people who will accept money to
(11:33):
go kill these people just to get this land. And
by just leaving them alone, you're leaving them very vulnerable.
Whereas if you if you plan out contact, then conceivably
you can show them that there are things like medical treatment,
there is the better ways that you can protect them.
You can kind of give them contact, and that even
more so interviews with groups that have become have initiated
(11:57):
contact or have had contact made with them, said, we
would have made contact with you guys earlier, but we
thought we were going to be enslaved or murdered or something.
We had no idea that you wanted to actually help us.
Had we known that, we would have contacted you guys
decades ago. So those two things put together, these American
anthropologists have said we we endorsed this, and FU and
(12:20):
I and a lot of other groups, including the U
N and UH human rights group in the UK called
Survivors International, have said, um no, that is totally disrespectful.
That flies completely in the face of of agreed upon
procedure and protocol. Just be quiet, you're being neo colonialists. Yeah.
(12:40):
I think it's interesting though, because what they're trying to
do is, like you said, have very highly controlled contact.
And the assumption that they don't want to be contacted UH,
at least through their eyes, appears to be false because
like you mentioned, they're they're afraid of being UH kidnapped
or something or overtaken. And if had they known, like oh,
(13:01):
you just want to give us some nice tools and
maybe inoculate us UH and we we'd actually be down
with that as long as you leave afterward, right, And
these two anthropologists said, like, you've got to do this smartly,
Like you basically have to go in with cultural translators,
usually um tribes who have made contact with outsiders before,
(13:24):
already established contact that live in the same area, who
might be able to to translate between the outsiders and
the actual uncontacted tribes. And you need healthcare providers who
are going to stay there for at least a year,
at least a year of sustained care or else. Yes,
they're going to die from these diseases you're going to
(13:45):
bring in inevitable. Yeah, I mean they're they're good. They
give good examples too in that article about how this
is backfired with missionaries, like the your people they were
there for six months and the missionary said, well, let's
let's go on vacation, and then the Jora died a
few weeks later. And then in nineteen missionaries provided care
(14:07):
to a community on ok community. Uh, they took a
vacation and then they died as well. So they're saying, like,
you gotta have a plan to go in and stay there.
You can't just go in bring him some food and
machetes and spring break and then then get out of there.
(14:27):
But I get the idea that this is still a
pretty hot topic of debate. Oh yeah, I know that
those anthropologists, um, they they set off a huge debate,
and I think it was sparked by the the video
that was released by Survivor International of the man in
the whole um chopping down a tree. And the video
(14:49):
was taken in two thousand eleven, but they only just
released it in July of two eighteen. And this is, yeah,
this is very much still going on, this big debate,
and it's a huge it's a huge issue, and you
can you can kind of see both sides. Like I
had just read about food eyes um counter to it
that like, look, dudes, this is our thing, we got this.
You just mind your own business, we have our own policy,
(15:12):
stay out right, stay out of this. But then if
you read the anthropologists letters, you're like, actually, they have
a couple of good points here. So it's it's not
a clear cut, um uh picture one way or the other.
It's it's definitely there's a lot of of nuance to
it on both sides. All right, let's take a risp it.
(15:33):
Let's take a furlough or vacation and we'll come back
and talk a little bit more about the Man in
the Whole. Alright, So the reason they call him the
(16:00):
man of the Hole or the man in the hole
is the odd thing of inside these statched huts of
which he has, uh several around this area. Inside the
huts are these and all over the place there are
these holes with like spikes for like trapping animals. But
he has these six foot deep holes inside of his
(16:21):
own huts and apparently no no other tribes around him
have done this, and it's very unusual thing, and that
the belief is that he is it's for his own protection.
I guess if he's being fired upon or something by loggers,
he can jump down on one of these holes. Yeah,
that's the impression I have too, which is extraordinarily sad.
(16:43):
It is. So the reason why they think that Um
that he has these holes is because he's had terrible
run ins. I guess this This seems to be evidence
that he is the survivor of a slaughter massacre, because
this is not a normal technique that they've seen with
other tribes UM, and they found it at every single
(17:05):
one of the huts that they've come upon of his. Yeah.
They do know though from tailing him or monitor tailing him,
monitoring him for the past couple of decades though, that
he he hunts with a bow and arrow. He farms, uh,
probably at night and stays out of the you know,
as much as he can. Stays inside during the day
out of fear, which is also awful. But he farms
(17:29):
like papay in corn and other fruits and vegetables. He
has all these traps, said everywhere, like I mentioned, um,
they have found hand carved arrowheads, torches made from branches,
and resin. And at one point they actually tried to
make contact, yes, several points. Well, at one point when
they when they tried to make contact though, he he
(17:51):
fired upon them with his bow and arrow and actually
hit someone in the chest, one of the agents. Yeah,
and they were like, all right, we're out of here. Yeah.
At that point they stopped trying to initiate contact with
this guy. And again this is like peaceful contact they're
trying to initiate, not like hey man, get off of
this land there, like saying do you need anything, do
(18:12):
you want some food? What do you what? Do you want?
And the first few attempts to contact him resulted in
him just basically slipping into the shadows in the jungle
and just disappearing. Um. Then it progressed into standoffs. Then
it progressed into a shooting, and so they stepped back.
Survivor International and food I and some other groups step
(18:35):
back and said, this guy is escalating in hostilities. He's
showing us he doesn't want anything to do with us,
Like you. It would be something if like he'd shot
the first time and then slipped away the second time,
and and the hostilities were decreasing, but instead it's going
the opposite way. The hostilities were increasing. So he's getting
(18:57):
that he has the opportunity to contact the people who
are coming with their hands up and like not trying
to kill him. And he's still saying back off. So
finally the government said we're just going to back off,
and they backed off. The fun I established his policy
of not contacting this guy, not even attempting to contact
this guy, but instead monitoring him, making sure that his
(19:20):
preserve is um protected, and then leaving him things like
the acts that he was seen using in that two
thousand and eleven video. Or seeds for some of the
um the plants that he grows, which a lot of
times he doesn't even accept or take these gifts. Imagine
he's not real trusting. Uh And like you said, as
far as protecting the area, in two thousand seven, uh
(19:42):
Funai and the government UM eventually increase the area to
thirty one square miles around where he was is off
limits to any trespassing or development, later expanded to three
thousand hectares. So I think they added another three thousand
hecks okay to the already square mileage. And this is
really ticked off the ranchers and the loggers because they're like,
(20:04):
our business is being held back back by this one guy. Yeah,
and they want to kill him, to kill him. As
a matter of fact, in in when the government announced
that it was not only keeping up the practice of
preserving this guy's land thirty one square miles, but adding
an extra three thousand hectares, which brought the total to
(20:26):
forty two and a half square miles or a hundred
and ten square kilometers that this man has to himself
the five ranches that surround this preserve, UM hired somebody
to go try to kill him. Fu and I went
and checked on him after a couple of weeks after
that announcement was made public, and they found that their
outpost was ransacked and that um, they had found the
(20:49):
shotgun shells, spent shotgun shells in the fourth floor. So
there's clearly an attempt to mate on the made on
the guy's life, And for a couple of years they
had no idea if he'd survived until that video was
made in two thousand eleven that showed this guy who
was now fifty. They've been tracking him since he was
in his now, um chopping down a tree, Yeah, chopping
(21:10):
down a tree like it's nothing. So they knew that
he was alive and in good health as of two
thousand and eleven, and they're assuming that he's still alive. Man,
how good would a movie be about this guy? I
just have a lot of it play out in silence,
you know. Yeah, that would be amazing, It would be cool.
I mean, it's it's crazy to see a video of
this guy from seven years ago, Like in the world
(21:32):
we live in, to think about there's still places on
earth where this guy. It's almost like the Japanese straggler
who had no idea that the war had been over
for whatever thirty years living in the jungle. Uh. It's
just amazing to think about the fact that this is
the loan, the lone guy out there by himself, and
what his life must be like. But not not only that,
(21:56):
It's like like when I when when we did the
paramedics episode, I think I said something like, there's there's
no greater symbol of humanity than paramedics, you know. I
think this is another really great symbol of this guy
that well, well, no the FUNI Brazilian government's response to
this that this man has been has been part of
(22:17):
a tribe, it's the last of his tribe, and the
Brazilian government has said, this man deserves to live his
life out in peace in the way that he wants to,
in his traditional way, to be left alone. And we're
going to designate a d ten square kilometers that belong
to no one but this man, despite the fact that
all around him is it's the outside world trying to
(22:39):
press in. We're gonna stand in the way of that
so that this guy can live out his natural life.
That just gets me, you know, right in the bread basket. Yeah.
I think the Disney version of this movie is they
would find a alone tribeswoman somewhere, drop her off and
have them have them meat cute by the papaya tree. Yeah,
(22:59):
and the the ranchers want to tickle him. But if
it were live action these days, it would be um.
They would hire either John Wayne or Fisher Stevens to
play the last. Fisher Stevens here, I remember he played
the Indian programmer in Short Circuit. That's right, Yeah, geez, yeah,
(23:22):
that was as recently as the eighties. Right, It's not
like Mickey Rooney playing an Asian man in the nineteen sixties.
Not like that was any better. No, Bay Hollywood and
getting it wrong for so long, they have at least
Mongol got it right though, right, Uh maybe, yeah, we
haven't seen any Should we take another break? Yeah, all right,
(23:44):
We'll take another break and talk a little bit more
about some of these um isolated tribes right after this. Okay, Chuck,
(24:11):
So the last tribesman, the the um, the man in
the whole. He's being left alone. And that's policy in
Brazil and Peru from what I understand now, Um, there
are some tribes that have actually um accepted contact and
it made peaceful contact and it become um, I guess
(24:34):
a little more integrated. I think there's three degrees that
fun I separates tribes into indigenous tribes into there's totally uncontacted,
which is like they are living off on their own.
They outside world has nothing to do with them. There's
um partially contacted or partially assimilated, right like they they're
(24:58):
they're living in their hut in the jungle, but they
still have an iPhone, right um. And then there's fully assimilated,
where they like live in a city now or something
like that, or they have like a job in the
city or something like that. Um. So it's not just
in the Amazon. It's not just in Brazil where there
are uncontacted tribes, although that is definitely the place where
(25:22):
you're going to find the most. I think I saw
somewhere between fifty eighty and a hundred and twenty uncontacted
groups of indigenous people are presumed to be living in
the Amazon still today. Yeah, I mean just those that
random swath of numbers shows you that they there's still
so much they don't know for sure, but there's there
(25:44):
are other parts of the world where there are uncontacted
tribes um, and you found an article that ran down
a few of them. One that surprised me was just
um off the coast of India on Sentinel Island in India,
North Sentinel cracked our iCal which may have been done
under the watch of our now colleague, Mr Jack O'Brien.
(26:07):
Nice shout out to Jack and as Daily Zeitgey Zitgey's podcast, Yeah,
which I was on. Have you been on John On?
You gotta be on. It's great, great fun. It's a
matter of fact, I'm gonna lap you. I'm gonna go
on again. Well please do all right? Yeah, But the
Sintinnales on North Sentinel Island, Indian they don't even know
(26:27):
if that's their real name. They just call them that
because I guess we have called it North Sentinel Island,
not you and me, but other people who named it,
I think the British, but apparently yeah, probably, Uh. We
don't know a lot about them. But in two thousand
and six a couple of fishermen drifted there in their
boat ah near the island and were killed and buried
(26:50):
in shallow graves, and helicopters came and they were like,
we gotta find this burial site and get these guys
back at least, and they started firing arrows at the
helicopter and it was just out of there, and the
local cops were like, now, we're just gonna leave those
guys there. We're not We're not going near it. They
have actually for this is a This has been going
(27:12):
on for a very long time. Apparently Marco polo Um
remarked on them, wrote about them that he was traveling
and I think the twelve century. So they've been fierce
for years now and apparently survived the two thousand four
tsunami in Indonesia's tsunami. That's crazy because this is an
(27:34):
island that the tsunami just swamped and they managed to
hang on just fine. I think ancient people have survived
more than one tsunami, you know. I guess you're right.
That was a pretty bad one though, Yeah, pretty amazing. Uh.
This other one, the coral Y tribe of Papua, Indonesia.
They were contacted in the seventies by of course missionaries
(27:56):
an archaeologist and they were using stone tools and living
in ree huts and stuff like that, and they're a
big belief as a tribe was that the world would
be destroyed by an earthquake if they assimilated and change
their customs. So missionary said, all right, you know what,
We're just gonna leave you alone. What I think these
(28:16):
people might have invented, um bungee jumping. Do you remember
land diving episode? They sound really familiar. I think it
might be maybe so, But they are in the middle
of nowhere, so it's a it's a long way from
even like other remote villages, which is a I mean,
that's a that's a mark in your favor for now.
(28:37):
But as the Amazon Basin has been showing us since
the seventies and eighties, so much of it has disappeared
due to clear cutting, for ranching, logging. Um that that
how you just have no idea how much longer that's
going to hold up, no matter where you are in
the world. I mean, we're at seven and a half
(29:00):
billion people now, and then I think the next thirty
years we're expected to hit ten billion. That's a lot
more people that not only need more land, but also
are going to be using up those resources that that
that are currently on that land right now, you know,
I mean, like if they discover oil where the Cora
white tribe lives in Indonesia. There goes that isolation, you know,
(29:26):
and I think that's a that's a real danger for
all tribes. I think that's probably what those two anthropologists
were talking about. Um, they're saying, like, long term, we
need a plan here everybody. We can't just be like, well,
we just won't contact them because it's just not viable,
I think was their point. What about that? This one
really was interesting to me. The Old Believers. Have you
(29:47):
ever heard of them? Yeah, there's like some g Q
article in the last couple of years about that. I
think so in bur lap apparently, Yeah, these are Soviet Uh. Well,
here's the deal in ight, there were these geologists in
the Soviet Union that we're looking for iron ore. Uh.
(30:07):
They were in a helicopter and they saw a cabin
way out in the remote areas of Siberia, and they
found a family there that actually spoke a language I guess,
I mean, what would that be old timey Russian? Old
timey Russian? Uh huh uh. And they were were huddled
(30:29):
in fear and they were yelling, this is for our sins.
They were dressed in burlap and living off the land
and Apparently they were a group of people called the
Old Believers, which left the Russian Church, the main Russian
Church in the seventeenth century and had been I guess
looked at you know, they kind of went everywhere. It
(30:51):
was sort of a diaspora for the Old Believers. Some
of them just went to other countries and seeking asylum
or whatever. And apparently some of them just looked aside
area and we're like, no one's there, so we'll go there. Nice.
It sounds creepy though, the Old Believers. Oh yeah, that's
a terrible name for him. You know. It seems like
(31:11):
they could scan you or something to make your head explode.
Are they worship Cthulhu or something? So Um, I almost
feel like if we should look into them a little more,
because I think they could probably hold up their own up.
I think you might be right. I also remember hearing
about families that lived in the Ozark Mountains in um
the midwest of the United States. Um, I think around
(31:34):
Arkansas that had been out of contact. I didn't even
know the Civil War it happened. They were just that isolated.
So yeah, you tend to think of it as just
strictly indigenous peoples and that it's just in the Amazon,
but like there's there's groups all over the world's fewer
and further between outside of the Amazon because there's less
unpopulated areas, but it happens. And one of the sad
(31:57):
things about all of this is, Uh, for one of
these other tribes that you know, you can go read
this cracked article. What's it called? I didn't see the
title actually is just suddenly there were oh five isolated
groups who had no idea that civilization existed. Correct correct
lists were always so great, are always so great. They've
come in handy from time to time. But one of
(32:18):
the sad things I point out for one of these
other tribes is that in Peru and imagine in some
other South American countries, there are these awful things called
human safari's where and they will take tourists around to
like look at uncontacted tribes from Afar and close up.
They're like, here, drained some of this io husk it
(32:39):
through your nose, and we're going to go check out
some some tribes hanging out on a river bank somewhere. Man,
So weird. Uh, Why I want to add one more thing.
I came across an article that wasn't really apropos of
what we were talking about, called the Right to Kill
on Foreign Policy Magazine, and it's about like this other
(32:59):
tan gentile issue that governments like Brazil have to deal with,
which is like, some of these isolated groups practice things
that the outside world finds abhorrent or is illegal in
the outside world. Um, specifically, in this article, infant aside.
If you're born with the disability and I think about
(33:21):
twenty of of Brazil's isolated tribes, there's a chance that
the community will decide that you need to die again.
It's the practice of infantaside. And Brazil is like, we
are not quite sure what to do about this, because
our constitution guarantees everyone in Brazil the right to live,
but it also guarantees the indigenous groups the right to
(33:44):
live according to their customs. So they have no idea
what to do. And it's a big thing about, you know,
moral relativism or moral absolutism and which one is correct. Uh.
And it's really interesting that they're having to think about
this right now. It's a really interesting article that's worth reading. Okay,
I will check it out. Are you talking to me? Yeah,
(34:04):
I'm talking to everybody, but specifically. Yeah. Um, well, if
you want to know more about isolated tribes, you can
look those words up anywhere on the internet and they're
going to deliver you some amazing stuff. And since I
said that, it's time for listener mail. Since you said
amazing stuff, mhm uh, well look at here, dude, I
(34:27):
have a handwritten letter on construction paper. Beautiful. Yeah, I
love it. Hey, guys, I hope this finds you. Well.
My name is Claire and I'm twenty one. In fact,
for my twenty first birthday, I came and saw you
guys live in Cleveland. Awesome. That was a great it was.
I got to here in college and I'm studying mathematics
(34:47):
with a license and education, so I'll be teaching high
school math. It's been a fan since two thousand fifteen.
Thank you for the many nights uh you have calmed
me and all the information I've learned. And I've been
wanting to for a while just to say thanks uh
and sent appreciation, but also a request and a little something.
Whenever you talk about math in any regard, please be
(35:10):
more positive, Please stop getting it wrong, Please be more
positive and encouraging. Uh. We're well known for poopooing math
and saying I hated math. Well, it's so intimidating, it's
just so stupid, it is, But she says this math
is hard and already has a stigma for people who
hate it or to hate it. But as a future educator,
(35:31):
since you two are sort of educators, require that reach
a huge audience, your outlook and attitude about math is important.
It's okay did not like math and think that it's hard,
but know that you and anyone can do math. I
know it's a silly thing to ask and point out,
but I think you could both as a have a
positive impact on the math stigma. I wish you and
(35:52):
your wives and Chuck your daughter all the best. Thank
you for all of your hard work, and thank Jerry too.
Jerry has to put up with you two all the time,
so she's definitely been working hard. And she writes sarcasm,
smiley face the fabulous day, and that is from Claire
and Claire, You're right, we just joke around, but we
we should take more care with our words about the maths.
(36:14):
You know what, Frankly, Chuck, I think Ms Claire makes
a great point that we should just basically take all
the jokes out of our podcast entirely, just so no
one get takes it the wrong way. Just make it
nice and neutral. She is right, though, she is right,
we should take it easy on math, she very nicely said,
(36:35):
back off math. Yeah, like did she draw a little
Yosemite sam at the bottom there? Yeah? Look at that
and nice. Well, if you want to get in touch
with this, like Claire did, you can go to your
local post office. We love that place. And you can
also instead go to the internet go to stuff you
Shao dot com. Find all of our social media links there,
(36:57):
or you can send us a new fangled electronic mail
by addressing it to Stuff podcast and how Stuff Works
dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics.
Does it how stuff works dot com
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