August 16, 2023 • 38 mins
Daddy Grace’s relationship with money – how much he seemed to have, how his followers practically threw cash at him – bothered many people outside the church, including Marcy’s relatives. But what was all that money used for? Sure, Daddy Grace had fancy cars and custom made suits. But in a time when it was hard for many Black people to get a mortgage, the United House of Prayer owned luxury buildings around the country: investment properties that guaranteed the church would last after Daddy Grace was gone. So was Daddy Grace just looking after his own well-being? Or was he actually a brilliant entrepreneur, ahead of his time?
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Oh God, here we go.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Nonam tom thumb thumb thumb.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Sweet yes, Sweet Daddy Grace, wool sweete, sweet yeah, Sweet
Daddy Grace.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Hey, ain't in a shame. That's his name.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
It's not a shame, Daddy Grace. He comes in the morning,
comes afternoon, comes in the d to get this fool.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Sweet yeah, Sweet Daddy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hallelu yak ain't his name, He's got a name, Sweete.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
That's the voice of a civil rights activist in legend
who for many years has lived in my hometown of
New Bedford, Massachusetts. You may know him by the name
he was given at his birth.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
My name is Jabriel Kazan, but my birth name is
Ezelanda Blair Junior.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
As is is al Blair Junior.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
He was one of the four young black men known
as the Greensboro for who in nineteen sixty walked into
a Woolworths in the Jim Crow South and sat down
at the lunch counter. Their sit in was a direct
action protest of the store's policy of segregation in North
Carolina and more largely the Deep South. This sit in
(01:26):
is widely considered one of the mile markers of the
movement for civil rights. I talked with Jabriel not only
because of his legacy, but because of his own stories
about Daddy Grace.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Coreen. My mother was a country girl from southa the City,
North Carolina. Mom gradu from high school, came to Greensboro.
She live with a lady who attended Daddy Grace's church.
So my mom went to see Daddy Grace at the church.
So what was he like, Mama? She said, he was
(02:01):
a very handsome man, plus that he could dress himmacreately,
three piece soup like he was God. Men hold him
on his shoulders and took him in. Wow. And then
she said, Then I walked in the church and gets
what I saw?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
What?
Speaker 6 (02:17):
Mom?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
She said, five ten, twenty dollars bills on the floor
and people were walking on to get the Daddy Grace step.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
I said, WHOA come talk to me?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Oh what?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Thousands of dollars on that floor. And the people took
off his shoes and walked down that aisle the way.
They took the money up and they put more money
in the basket. That's Daddy Grace.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
But when other folks spoke about Daddy Grace and the
money he and his churches raked in they weren't always
so laudatory, so supportive. In fact, of all the things
Daddy Grace was criticized for, the one that really seemed
to bother people, including money in my family, was his
and his church's relationship with money, because there appeared to
(03:04):
be a lot of it, so much in fact, that
the church was able to purchase an expansive real estate empire,
much of which they still hold on to today. In
the nineteen forties and fifties, this was unheard of for
most Black Americans, and although he was primarily a man
of God, I have to admit that what Daddy Grace
(03:24):
did with real estate has always impressed me.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
Daddy Grace didn't.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Come to America to be poor. He came to spread
the word of God. It just so happened that he
also found the word of God paid very well. I'm
Marcy Depina and from iHeart Podcasts, Enforce and Media group.
Speaker 5 (03:43):
This is sweet Daddy Grace.
Speaker 7 (03:47):
Glad to be happy.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
All right. So the parade is over and I am
(04:42):
walking down the street. I am seeing that a lot
of the people that were.
Speaker 5 (04:48):
In the various bands are here. I am in Washington,
d C.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
For the United House of prayers, annual Memorial Day celebration
and parade. Making my way to the national head quarters,
the main.
Speaker 5 (05:01):
Church to the faithful.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
It's called God's White House. And it's not lost on
me that Daddy Grace chose the nation's capital for the
headquarters of the United House of Prayer.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
Oh this church is she.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Oh Wow, has a five pointed star at the top
a gold dome. This church is truly notable. It's a
building meant to cause a sensation. It's monumental. It's an
impressive piece of real estate. Inside is home to an
extensive public archive of the United House of Prayer history.
(05:42):
There are countless photos of Daddy Grace, newspaper clippings, letters
he wrote to the congregation, preserved copies of Grace magazine.
It's like a museum. But the other piece of real
estate I was struck by during my trip was right
on Logan Circle, eleven Logan Circle to be exact. It's
(06:03):
in the historically black Shaw neighborhood, which has been home
to many prominent Black attorneys, judges, architects, politicians, and musicians,
including Duke Ellington. Eleven Logan Circle is a majestic house
boasting seven bedrooms and five bathrooms. It's currently estimated to
(06:24):
be worth three point five million dollars, and it too
is owned by the United House of Prayer starting in
the nineteen thirties. It was where Daddy Gray stayed whenever
he was in town. I cannot describe the feeling of
pride that I felt when walking along with the parade,
we rounded the corner and I first saw the house.
(06:47):
The neighborhood is gentrified now and Daddy Grace's home is
one of the few black owned properties in the circle,
one of the last reminders of the prosperous black neighborhood
that once was here. Smith the church opens it up
to the public, they also know it something to show off.
Eleven Logan Circle would be an impressive property for anyone.
(07:10):
But here's the thing, both in Daddy Grace's time and
for the House of Prayer today, it's just one of
many real estate holdings, one parcel in a vast empire.
This was very much on purpose. Daddy Grace's vision for
his church was to make sure it could and would
always keep growing, and he knew that meant money. Daddy
(07:32):
Grace deeply understood that one of the best ways to
build wealth in America was by owning real estate.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
Alvicente, who was born in.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Kabovid and has also studied Daddy Grace, spoke directly to
this point.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
He bought.
Speaker 8 (07:49):
Huge complex in Manhattan that didn't rent the Negroes, and
he bought it through you know, channels at that time,
was one of the big purchases in Manhattan.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
The fact that Daddie Grace was able to purchase properties
that would not even rent to black tenants, never mind
sell to them, was remarkable. He hired white real estate
agents and attorneys to make the arrangements for him. This
sprawling business empire he built with church funds and donations.
It wasn't just here in America, it was also an
(08:27):
international empire of real estate.
Speaker 8 (08:30):
He had a coffee farm in Brazil and egg farm
in Cuba, so he was pretty dynamic. He was a bright,
bright guy and an astute businessman.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
This was all the more impressive when you consider the
world he was operating in a black man in the
nineteen thirties, forties and fifties.
Speaker 6 (08:54):
As a black person in America, he does not have
the access to credit and capital that white people have.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Doctor Hassan Jeffries is an associate professor of history at
the Ohio State University, where he teaches courses on the
civil rights and Black power movements. He's also of cathe
Verdian descent.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
He's not being given access to credit.
Speaker 6 (09:20):
Line for the most part, mortgages are not really available,
and so a lot of what he's having to leverage
is just cash.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Right.
Speaker 6 (09:29):
So this is where so the cash coming in by
the church becomes really important, because you're buying stuff outright, and.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
The properties Daddy Grace wanted to buy, they were often
expensive and big in wealthy areas.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
And so how did a black person do that?
Speaker 6 (09:49):
It wasn't enough just to have the money, right, You
then have to negotiate, and not one on one negotiate,
I'm saying, negotiate the color line.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
In order to actually do.
Speaker 6 (09:59):
The thing that allow you to purchase, you got to
have some white bankers. You got to have some white
front people, right who were willing to do these negotiations
on your behalf.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Because a lot of these not.
Speaker 6 (10:12):
Just real estate brokers, but homeowners, business owners would not
sell to an African American period the Rockefellers, they had
to worry about that, like if they had the money,
they just showed up. They got better deals than anybody else.
Right because of the name. That doesn't hold for black folk,
that doesn't hold for Daddy Grays.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
But Daddy Grace seemed to thrive in this environment, buying
up the property of rivals like Father Divine and Harlem
and Prophet Jones in Detroit right from under them. He
bought a theater in Newark, mansions in New Bedford, Montclair Bridgeport,
the sort of places that require staff to take care
of them, the sort of places where white neighbors complained
(10:53):
when they found out.
Speaker 5 (10:54):
Who the new owner was. And in nineteen.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Fifty three he bought the crown jewel of his achievement,
the El Dorado, an Art Deco apartment building right on
Central Park in New York City. At the time, it
was called the tallest apartment building in the world, some
thirty stories high with two pinnacled towers, It's an iconic
(11:20):
structure part of the backdrop of the park. Daddy Grace
claimed it was one of the largest real estate transactions
of its kind on record. The El Dorado had thirteen
manual elevators and a lobby full of murals statues and
fourteen carrot gold decorations. It housed more than two hundred apartments,
(11:41):
and as Daddy Grace well knew, all of his renters
were white. As he told the press, the income from
the property would be used as an investment for the
betterment and welfare of his congregation. Daddy Grace knew how
to take care of his people, and the congregation was
proud their church. Daddy Grace's church owned one of the
(12:05):
grandest buildings in one of the most famous cities in
the world. It was such a point of pride that
many of the United House of Prayer churches, not just
in New York but around the country, had framed photos
of the El Dorado at the altar right next to
the picture of Daddy Grace himself. Daddy Grace seemed to
(12:27):
be untouched by the cold hand of faith by economic ruin.
He and his church endured. If anything, they prospered. But
although preachers like Daddy Grace seemed to be getting rich,
much of their congregations were just trying to hold.
Speaker 5 (12:43):
On to what they had.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
Meanwhile, Daddy Grace wore fancy suits, custom hats, and expensive jewelry.
He drove or had others drive him around in a
brand new car. In Daddy Grace's view, the Bible clearly
says that the riches of the Kingdom of Heaven should
be found on earth too. But it wasn't just that
(13:05):
he was rich and lived well. There was also much
talk about the spectacles of money to be seen inside
the church. For instance, the dollar bills all stacked up
in the shape of a house or a full size
money well that his follower's bill and presented to Bishop
Grace as a love offering when he was in town.
(13:27):
None of this was ever mentioned in the Bible. Yet
there was Daddy Grace telling his faithful congregants during services
that he didn't want to hear the sound of jingling
coins being dropped into the donation basket. He wanted to
hear the sound of paper. People outside the church would
sometimes ask Daddy Grace about this, about the money they
(13:48):
figured that he had. He said personally that he didn't
care about money, that he only had a small salary
or none at all. It was enough of a sticking
point that he'd even sometimes address it in his sermons.
How he wasn't there because of any financial incentive.
Speaker 9 (14:07):
I'm the only poor man going and charge these people
a dying I ask him, man, see why chide, I'm
gonna die?
Speaker 4 (14:23):
And he repeated over and over that the money collected
from the congregation belonged to the United House of Prayer, which,
of course was technically true, And it was equally true
that as the head of the church, under the church's bylaws,
the bishop was given funds for personal use, funds for travel, food, housing, clothing,
(14:46):
and servants. All of that to say, Daddy Grace's lavish
lifestyle was all above board, But was it out of line?
There is a cultural discription and that needs to be clarified.
For many people of faith in America, it might seem
obscene for a religious leader to spend church funds on
(15:09):
a luxurious lifestyle. Many Christians would not recognize a holy
expression in Daddy Grace's chauffeured cars and expensive manicures, But
among the faithful in Black America, this isn't always the case.
We often expect our religious leaders.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
To be doing well.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
If anything, it was a sign of God's blessing to
speak to this truth of life in the black faith communities.
I spoke with someone who knows the criticisms and the rationale.
Bishop Talbert Swan.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
The preacher is often caught in a catch twenty two.
Speaker 10 (15:49):
If the preacher is lacking in resources and destitute, it
has to seek help himself to support his own life
style in his family. Then he's mocked and the question
is asked, what kind of God do you serve when
you can't even take care of yourself.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Bishop Swan is the prelate and the Bishop of the
Church of God in Christ in Springfield, Massachusetts. He's also
an activist, an author, and the president of the local
NAACP chapter. His own style is more understated, but he
recognized the internal dilemma a man like Bishop Grace might
(16:32):
have faced the ways Daddy Grace made much of his
money often rubbed people the wrong way. He had a
whole product line blessed by his touch and bearing his
name Daddy Grace, soap, Daddy Greces, toothpaste, hair creams, face powder,
and cookies, emblems, badges, buttons, banners. This capitalistic promotion of
(16:54):
himself for a lot of people didn't seem right. For
a man of God, it seemed the opposite. But it's
important here to recall Daddy Grace's Catholic roots the Catholic
Church has stacked cash for centuries, growing rich by selling rosaries, handkerchiefs.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
Photos of the Pope, statues.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Of saints, any and all blessed by the Pope, and
for sale in the gift shops and at the Vatican.
So I can see the criticisms of Daddy Grace. I
see how he presented himself. I understand how his way
could be offensive to someone. But I also see someone
who was attempting to create a lifestyle really an entire
(17:34):
faith based ecosystem, one that operated pretty similarly to the
Catholic Church, with the same kind of money.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
And so for Daddy.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Grace, just like for the Pope, if you asked him,
there was no doubt he was a man of God
and just speaking to our modern moment, Daddy Grace should
rightly be considered one of the forefathers of contemporary megachurches,
the religious movement best exemplified by Bishop td Jakes craftlow Dollar,
(18:03):
and Joel Ostein these prosperity gospel evangelists have all built
large followings as well as political power and of course,
multimillion dollar business verticals. While Bishop Swan isn't part of
this group of prosperity Gospel ministers. He understands why Daddy
Grace may have chosen this path.
Speaker 10 (18:26):
He was the prosperity preacher before it was such a thing.
And I believe that the preacher ought to be an
example of what they're preaching to the people. So if
I'm telling you that you need to get into a
position where you're debt free, or you need to conduct
your life in such a way that you can secure
a future for your family and pass on generational wealth,
(18:48):
well I've got to be the first example of that.
And for some reason, folks think that the preacher should
teach those things, but then not be the example of
those things that he or she teaches.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
It's inarguably true that sweet Daddy Grace didn't mind a
little bit of flash or a flare of style, and yes,
he certainly had that swagger and bravado. He clearly took
great care in terms of how he presented himself to
the world and to his congregants. But what also made
him special was the little things that set him apart
(19:22):
from his followers. Like he insisted that no one in
the church could grow fingernails as long as his or
there were the big things that set him apart, like
the boasts that he spoke twenty eight languages, or his
far more incredible boasts like that he alone ended World
War Two. You have to understand Daddy Grace had to
(19:45):
constantly contend and combat how other people, especially the press,
doubted him. The press, when they did write about him,
would often put his title bishop and quote, or would
focus far more on the money he raised than and
what he actually preached from the pulpit. Even Ebony Magazine
was guilty of this mistreatment. The magazine made for black readers,
(20:08):
It too, seemed to believe some of the rumors. In
one article, the journalist wrote that Grace is not his
real name, but serves a symbolic purpose. This is something
that was said a lot about Daddy Grace, that he
made up the name to sound more legit, but it
just wasn't true. Grace was the Anglicized version of Daddy
(20:30):
Grace's cap Verdian birth name, the Grassa. It was also
the name he'd been using way before he started his church.
But the notion that he'd changed his name to sound
more godly it definitely helped perpetuate the myth that Daddy
Grace was a con man or worse.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
A joke.
Speaker 6 (20:52):
It is not a surprise nor a coincidence that we're
talking about the depression era, and the depression doesn't begin
just in early thirties people African Americans.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
We see it through the twenties and lasting through the
nineteen forties.
Speaker 5 (21:04):
That's Professor Jeffries again.
Speaker 6 (21:07):
And so people are searching for something and they're finding
a bit of salvation here on earth. But for white
people to look at that, that's particularly troubling. If white
people can dismiss Daddy Grace, if they can dismiss him
as a charlatan, then they can dismiss all of the
(21:30):
other things that he's actually doing. When we think about
the big personalities with large followings during the first couple
of decades of the twentieth century, you know, I think
we have to put it into the sort of broader
context of the power of performance, the power of the
big ego.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
This is something far more common now. We almost expect
the big ego to be highly visible and the sccessful
black man. In that era, you most certainly had to
have a big ego, and you had to put it
on display where it could cost you your life or
at the very least your livelihood.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
I mean, we saw the same thing with Marcus Garvey. Right.
Speaker 6 (22:17):
If you can convince people not to take the person
who is speaking seriously, then you can dismiss the people
who'll find resonance in the message that is being offered.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Marcus Garvey, the Jamaican immigrant and political activists, advocated for
black self determination and unity between the African diaspora and Africa.
He championed ideas like Black pride and Black nationalism, and
like Daddy Grace, he was also charismatic and a polarizing figure.
(22:50):
But not everyone, including those in his own community, approved
of his approach and his focus on the needs of
the everyday black.
Speaker 6 (23:01):
And yet Garvey says, the people need it, the people
need the celebration, and there's something to be said when
we go back to the history of enslaved folk having parades, right,
having these ceremonial elections, right, which of course draw on
West African traditions. I think we're too quick sometimes to say,
(23:21):
oh that this was just a play the ego, Like no,
I mean, there was a value and understanding of the
power of this kind of performative rhetoric and performative action
in the service of religion and community building. That wasn't
just oh, you know, I'm playing a role. This is
(23:42):
a way of communication that is resonating because my people.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
See the value in this.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
Especially, I would add at a time when black folk
people of color are told to be seen and not
her having a.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Big ego, it was an act of strength and rebellion.
Speaker 6 (24:08):
The louder you were, the more attention you drew, the
more danger you drew. Because the most dangerous place to
be for a person of color was in the presence
of white people. So we are conditioning ourselves and our
children to survive, to be silent, to be unseen. And
here you have somebody who was standing up like.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
No, you are going to see me.
Speaker 6 (24:27):
And by people, that is an attraction in and of
itself because they're like, boy, that's daring, that's bold, that's
the vine, and that's what we like because we don't
get enough of it.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
The thing is, despite all this controversy surrounding him, theologically,
the United House of Prayer fit pretty soundly into other
Black Pentecostal and Apostolic churches, and Daddy Grace knew his
Bible as well as any preacher, maybe even better. Those
long fingernails he had, he said it was proof that
(24:59):
he he was a prophet, referencing an obscure Bible verse
about a prophet with horns growing.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
Out of his hands.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
And the name of his church was taken directly from
Isaiah fifty six to seven, from my house shall be
called a house of.
Speaker 5 (25:15):
Prayer for all peoples.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
He impressed people by how often he quoted scripture verbatim,
But maybe even more impressive were the connections he fostered
within his church. As is common in the Black faith communities,
Daddy Grace supplied his congregants a way to be fully
immersed in church life. For many House of Prayer members,
(25:40):
the church became the central part of their spiritual and
social lives. The services which are held every day are
lively and full of music, especially shout music. The call
and response with the repetitive sounds enraptured the congregants. They
spoke in tongs filled by the Holy Ghost. And there
(26:03):
were and are still to this day, various clubs for
different interests for all different ages, band choir, literature, banking,
junior nurses, scouts, and there were also rewards in the
form of cash, titles and positions. It was a major
privilege to be a Graceguard, Grace Queen, or a Grace
(26:26):
made personal attendance for Daddy Grace when he came to town.
All of this was intentionally designed to keep House of
Prayer members fully submerged in a life where God was
at the center and the forefront. But more than that,
it was a reminder of their own importance to God,
a message they often didn't receive outside of the church.
Speaker 10 (26:51):
The first Black denomination was founded as a result of
the inability of white folks to accept our full humanity.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
As Bishop Swan can speak to and knows well, Black churches,
including the United House of Prayer, have always been both
foundations and load bearing pillars of their communities.
Speaker 10 (27:15):
They have provided services in black communities. They have spoken
on behalf of black people, and done all of this
with only the support of their congregates. We're not talking
about endowments, We're not talking about grants and loans.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
We're talking about.
Speaker 10 (27:34):
Chicken dinners and tag sales and people giving to support
the minister, to support the church.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
In short, the Black Church gave people opportunities that they
weren't allowed to have outside in the wider world.
Speaker 10 (27:51):
Black people as we are today wouldn't be where we
are today without the Black Church. The Black Church honed
our leadership, trained our leaders. You could be the janitor
somewhere in the world with the head of the trustee
board in the church. You could be without a job
in the world with the head of the deacon board
(28:12):
in the church. And so our churches helped our people
see their own self worth. It was the one stop
plaza for everything.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
By nineteen forty nine, the United House of Prayer claimed
to have two million members. This may or may not
have been an inflated count, but regardless of the numbers,
the church served the needs of its followers, people who
were only too happy to tithe and to contribute their
time and efforts to something that was so meaningful to
(28:45):
them and their community. They gave to the House of Prayer,
and as far as they were concerned, the House of
Prayer it gave back. After World War Two ended, America
began to imagine its place in the world and to
(29:06):
adjust its domestic agenda, its balances of power, its traditions
of exclusion. As the United States grew and changed, so
did the world of black Americans. In the post war period,
black gis returned home having seen how others might treat
and respect them as full human beings, and they returned
(29:29):
home trained by the armed services in terms of how
to fight a war against racial intolerance.
Speaker 5 (29:36):
They brought that fight back.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Home to America and began a new era in the
fight for civil rights. Daddy Grace was not at the
center of that fight, nor involved in any public way
at least, but Professor Jeffrey says that really that wasn't unusual.
Not everyone is a Malcolm or a Martin.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
I think we have an outst understanding of what the
black church was in the civil rights movement.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
The vast majority of churches never took part in civil
rights actions period.
Speaker 6 (30:16):
It's like the vast majority of black people never took
part in civil rights protests, civil rights demonstration, civil rights actions. Now,
to be sure, the church space becomes very important to
civil rights organizing. Right, the beedifics itself becomes important because
it's one of the few spaces that black people had.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Autonomous control over.
Speaker 6 (30:39):
Right, but in all of these local communities where we
see movements emerging, you might have one hundred churches and
four opened their doors. And so in a way, the
fact that you know, Daddy Grace is not a frontline
activist as a member of the clergy, it's actually not
that surprising.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
Especially after death, this perceived in action has been for
some people a mark against Daddy Grace.
Speaker 6 (31:07):
I mean, the criticism comes because they're like, oh, man,
if you're this powerful with access to these many resources,
could you and should you be doing more?
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Like that's a separate question.
Speaker 6 (31:18):
I think then, you know, should you be doing more
as a preacher, because in a sense it's kind of.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Along the lines of where most were. King was an exception.
Speaker 6 (31:30):
Yet we look back and we say, oh, everybody, all
the preachers were like King, No.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
They weren't right. They were like, look, we're not getting
involved in this message.
Speaker 6 (31:38):
Y'all gonna burn down my sanctuary, right, y'all are gonna
come after me. I ain't dealing with that. And so
it really was the rare few. But you know, we
look back now, it's like, oh, you should have been
in it.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
This is always important when assessing history to measure the
people against the standards of their time, not ours.
Speaker 6 (31:56):
I think we have to we just have to look
at the universe of possible actions, rather than just saying, oh, well,
you weren't with.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
King and Selma, so therefore you had nothing. You did
nothing at all.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
I don't think it's in either or, and ask doctor
Jeffries points out this same calculation was made by another
prominent religious leader of the day.
Speaker 6 (32:21):
You know, we see a very similar and perhaps even
more extreme decision being made by Elijah Muhammad and the
Nation of Islam. We think about the Nation of Islam,
which gives us Malcolm X as being sort of these
radical activists. Well, the Nation of Islam, as a small
group in the late nineteen thirties nineteen forties are conscientious
(32:41):
objectives to World War Two, and Elijah Muhammad and others
go to jail and the Nation of Islam almost implodes.
And so when Elijah Muhammad comes out, he says, we're
never doing that again, and so they stay on the sideline.
I mean, part of his rip with Malcolm X in
(33:01):
the mid nineteen sixties is that Malcolm wants to get
involved in civil rights. Elijah Muhammad was like, we took
too much heat in the past. We're not going to
deal with that in the present. In order to preserve
what had been built. It was just too much of
a risk to take that heat by being front.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
And center in a particular way.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
As we wrapped up our conversation, I was thinking about
Daddy Grace's legacy, what he meant to not only his
congregation but to Black America.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
I think Daddy Grace's principal legacy.
Speaker 6 (33:37):
Was about institution building, about you have to build something
more than that which you just enjoy for yourself. And
so he had a very expansive understanding, I think, of
what needed to be done to create security for people.
And he also, I mean, he was living in a
capitalist society and he understood that. He made so the
(34:01):
surveying the land, It's like, okay, what do we have
here and how does this work?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Right?
Speaker 6 (34:06):
And then he said, oh, I get it. It's all
about acquiring assets. And he did that in order to
insulate the organization that he was building that really was
committed to Some might dismiss as utopian, but really was
committed to building a better society for people. And I
think there's real value in that for us today.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Alphacente said something that struck me too, self.
Speaker 11 (34:35):
Help, building from within, creating generational wealth, and your self
from age and say, hey, you can have here as
beautiful as mind. If you use Daddy Grace from you
can have the best coffee in the world if you
buy Daddy Grace coffee.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
You know, stuff like that.
Speaker 11 (34:55):
But he he's learned from what I gathered from Walker,
where people were given some of his products and they
sold it and got some of the proceeds from it
so that they can build up themselves. But he had
Senior Citizens Center where he said people, daycare center. All
(35:17):
were involved in his churches because he believed in promoting
self help.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
So I think that's that's the biggest part of his legacy.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
I tend to agree with Alvicente and doctor Jeffries, people
who've studied Daddy Grace and understand what he was up
against and what he accomplished. But I can see why
his behavior could rub members of my family the wrong way.
Keith Verdians as a general rule, are humble, they're conservative
(35:46):
and have always done their best to stay under the
radar to protect themselves and their families. Particularly with my
family being associated with a man like sweet Daddy Grace
who was not not only highly visible, extremely controversial and
had multiple run ins with the law, it felt dangerous.
(36:09):
We can't forget that Cape Verdians in America were foreigners,
African immigrants who always ran the risk of being on
the receiving end of racism or being deported back to
a life of abject poverty and famine. My folks were
just trying to make a life for themselves and being
caught up with the wrong people or situations could completely
(36:31):
derail their lives and the lives of their families. But
it wasn't only my relatives that thought that Daddy Grace
was dangerous. The US government did too, and so Uncle
Sam tried to have him stopped. That's next time. Sweet
Daddy Grace is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Force,
(36:54):
a media group. This show is hosted by Me Marcy
de Pina and produced by Marissa Brown and Me. Our
story editors are Darryl Stewart, Duncan Riedell, and Zarren Burnett. Editing,
sound design and theme music by Jonathan Washington, Additional editing
(37:15):
by Matt Russell. Show cover art by Viviana Salgado of
Studio Creative Group. Fact checking by Austin Thompson. Our executive
producers are Marcy Depina and Jason English. Special thanks to
Will Pearson, Nikki Ettore, Ali Perry, Tamika Campbell, and Lulu
(37:37):
Phillip of iHeartMedia, and all of my family members who
talked to me for this show, my ancestors, the United
House of Prayer for All People, and the countless number
of people who shared their memories of Sweet Daddy Grace
with me. Thanks also to doctor Marie Dollam and doctor
Danielle brun Sigler, whose academic work on Sweet Dayaddy Grace
(38:00):
has been incredibly helpful. And finally, I want to thank
Bishop Grace himself for choosing me to tell his story.
For more information on Bishop Charles M. Grace, check out
the website Sweet Daddy Grace and follow me at Marcy
Depina on all social platforms
Oh God, here we go.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Nonam tom thumb thumb thumb.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Sweet yes, Sweet Daddy Grace, wool sweete, sweet yeah, Sweet
Daddy Grace.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Hey, ain't in a shame. That's his name.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
It's not a shame, Daddy Grace. He comes in the morning,
comes afternoon, comes in the d to get this fool.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Sweet yeah, Sweet Daddy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hallelu yak ain't his name, He's got a name, Sweete.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
That's the voice of a civil rights activist in legend
who for many years has lived in my hometown of
New Bedford, Massachusetts. You may know him by the name
he was given at his birth.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
My name is Jabriel Kazan, but my birth name is
Ezelanda Blair Junior.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
As is is al Blair Junior.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
He was one of the four young black men known
as the Greensboro for who in nineteen sixty walked into
a Woolworths in the Jim Crow South and sat down
at the lunch counter. Their sit in was a direct
action protest of the store's policy of segregation in North
Carolina and more largely the Deep South. This sit in
(01:26):
is widely considered one of the mile markers of the
movement for civil rights. I talked with Jabriel not only
because of his legacy, but because of his own stories
about Daddy Grace.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Coreen. My mother was a country girl from southa the City,
North Carolina. Mom gradu from high school, came to Greensboro.
She live with a lady who attended Daddy Grace's church.
So my mom went to see Daddy Grace at the church.
So what was he like, Mama? She said, he was
(02:01):
a very handsome man, plus that he could dress himmacreately,
three piece soup like he was God. Men hold him
on his shoulders and took him in. Wow. And then
she said, Then I walked in the church and gets
what I saw?
Speaker 1 (02:17):
What?
Speaker 6 (02:17):
Mom?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
She said, five ten, twenty dollars bills on the floor
and people were walking on to get the Daddy Grace step.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
I said, WHOA come talk to me?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Oh what?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Thousands of dollars on that floor. And the people took
off his shoes and walked down that aisle the way.
They took the money up and they put more money
in the basket. That's Daddy Grace.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
But when other folks spoke about Daddy Grace and the
money he and his churches raked in they weren't always
so laudatory, so supportive. In fact, of all the things
Daddy Grace was criticized for, the one that really seemed
to bother people, including money in my family, was his
and his church's relationship with money, because there appeared to
(03:04):
be a lot of it, so much in fact, that
the church was able to purchase an expansive real estate empire,
much of which they still hold on to today. In
the nineteen forties and fifties, this was unheard of for
most Black Americans, and although he was primarily a man
of God, I have to admit that what Daddy Grace
(03:24):
did with real estate has always impressed me.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
Daddy Grace didn't.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Come to America to be poor. He came to spread
the word of God. It just so happened that he
also found the word of God paid very well. I'm
Marcy Depina and from iHeart Podcasts, Enforce and Media group.
Speaker 5 (03:43):
This is sweet Daddy Grace.
Speaker 7 (03:47):
Glad to be happy.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
All right. So the parade is over and I am
(04:42):
walking down the street. I am seeing that a lot
of the people that were.
Speaker 5 (04:48):
In the various bands are here. I am in Washington,
d C.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
For the United House of prayers, annual Memorial Day celebration
and parade. Making my way to the national head quarters,
the main.
Speaker 5 (05:01):
Church to the faithful.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
It's called God's White House. And it's not lost on
me that Daddy Grace chose the nation's capital for the
headquarters of the United House of Prayer.
Speaker 5 (05:15):
Oh this church is she.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Oh Wow, has a five pointed star at the top
a gold dome. This church is truly notable. It's a
building meant to cause a sensation. It's monumental. It's an
impressive piece of real estate. Inside is home to an
extensive public archive of the United House of Prayer history.
(05:42):
There are countless photos of Daddy Grace, newspaper clippings, letters
he wrote to the congregation, preserved copies of Grace magazine.
It's like a museum. But the other piece of real
estate I was struck by during my trip was right
on Logan Circle, eleven Logan Circle to be exact. It's
(06:03):
in the historically black Shaw neighborhood, which has been home
to many prominent Black attorneys, judges, architects, politicians, and musicians,
including Duke Ellington. Eleven Logan Circle is a majestic house
boasting seven bedrooms and five bathrooms. It's currently estimated to
(06:24):
be worth three point five million dollars, and it too
is owned by the United House of Prayer starting in
the nineteen thirties. It was where Daddy Gray stayed whenever
he was in town. I cannot describe the feeling of
pride that I felt when walking along with the parade,
we rounded the corner and I first saw the house.
(06:47):
The neighborhood is gentrified now and Daddy Grace's home is
one of the few black owned properties in the circle,
one of the last reminders of the prosperous black neighborhood
that once was here. Smith the church opens it up
to the public, they also know it something to show off.
Eleven Logan Circle would be an impressive property for anyone.
(07:10):
But here's the thing, both in Daddy Grace's time and
for the House of Prayer today, it's just one of
many real estate holdings, one parcel in a vast empire.
This was very much on purpose. Daddy Grace's vision for
his church was to make sure it could and would
always keep growing, and he knew that meant money. Daddy
(07:32):
Grace deeply understood that one of the best ways to
build wealth in America was by owning real estate.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
Alvicente, who was born in.
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Kabovid and has also studied Daddy Grace, spoke directly to
this point.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
He bought.
Speaker 8 (07:49):
Huge complex in Manhattan that didn't rent the Negroes, and
he bought it through you know, channels at that time,
was one of the big purchases in Manhattan.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
The fact that Daddie Grace was able to purchase properties
that would not even rent to black tenants, never mind
sell to them, was remarkable. He hired white real estate
agents and attorneys to make the arrangements for him. This
sprawling business empire he built with church funds and donations.
It wasn't just here in America, it was also an
(08:27):
international empire of real estate.
Speaker 8 (08:30):
He had a coffee farm in Brazil and egg farm
in Cuba, so he was pretty dynamic. He was a bright,
bright guy and an astute businessman.
Speaker 4 (08:45):
This was all the more impressive when you consider the
world he was operating in a black man in the
nineteen thirties, forties and fifties.
Speaker 6 (08:54):
As a black person in America, he does not have
the access to credit and capital that white people have.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Doctor Hassan Jeffries is an associate professor of history at
the Ohio State University, where he teaches courses on the
civil rights and Black power movements. He's also of cathe
Verdian descent.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
He's not being given access to credit.
Speaker 6 (09:20):
Line for the most part, mortgages are not really available,
and so a lot of what he's having to leverage
is just cash.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Right.
Speaker 6 (09:29):
So this is where so the cash coming in by
the church becomes really important, because you're buying stuff outright, and.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
The properties Daddy Grace wanted to buy, they were often
expensive and big in wealthy areas.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
And so how did a black person do that?
Speaker 6 (09:49):
It wasn't enough just to have the money, right, You
then have to negotiate, and not one on one negotiate,
I'm saying, negotiate the color line.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
In order to actually do.
Speaker 6 (09:59):
The thing that allow you to purchase, you got to
have some white bankers. You got to have some white
front people, right who were willing to do these negotiations
on your behalf.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Because a lot of these not.
Speaker 6 (10:12):
Just real estate brokers, but homeowners, business owners would not
sell to an African American period the Rockefellers, they had
to worry about that, like if they had the money,
they just showed up. They got better deals than anybody else.
Right because of the name. That doesn't hold for black folk,
that doesn't hold for Daddy Grays.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
But Daddy Grace seemed to thrive in this environment, buying
up the property of rivals like Father Divine and Harlem
and Prophet Jones in Detroit right from under them. He
bought a theater in Newark, mansions in New Bedford, Montclair Bridgeport,
the sort of places that require staff to take care
of them, the sort of places where white neighbors complained
(10:53):
when they found out.
Speaker 5 (10:54):
Who the new owner was. And in nineteen.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Fifty three he bought the crown jewel of his achievement,
the El Dorado, an Art Deco apartment building right on
Central Park in New York City. At the time, it
was called the tallest apartment building in the world, some
thirty stories high with two pinnacled towers, It's an iconic
(11:20):
structure part of the backdrop of the park. Daddy Grace
claimed it was one of the largest real estate transactions
of its kind on record. The El Dorado had thirteen
manual elevators and a lobby full of murals statues and
fourteen carrot gold decorations. It housed more than two hundred apartments,
(11:41):
and as Daddy Grace well knew, all of his renters
were white. As he told the press, the income from
the property would be used as an investment for the
betterment and welfare of his congregation. Daddy Grace knew how
to take care of his people, and the congregation was
proud their church. Daddy Grace's church owned one of the
(12:05):
grandest buildings in one of the most famous cities in
the world. It was such a point of pride that
many of the United House of Prayer churches, not just
in New York but around the country, had framed photos
of the El Dorado at the altar right next to
the picture of Daddy Grace himself. Daddy Grace seemed to
(12:27):
be untouched by the cold hand of faith by economic ruin.
He and his church endured. If anything, they prospered. But
although preachers like Daddy Grace seemed to be getting rich,
much of their congregations were just trying to hold.
Speaker 5 (12:43):
On to what they had.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
Meanwhile, Daddy Grace wore fancy suits, custom hats, and expensive jewelry.
He drove or had others drive him around in a
brand new car. In Daddy Grace's view, the Bible clearly
says that the riches of the Kingdom of Heaven should
be found on earth too. But it wasn't just that
(13:05):
he was rich and lived well. There was also much
talk about the spectacles of money to be seen inside
the church. For instance, the dollar bills all stacked up
in the shape of a house or a full size
money well that his follower's bill and presented to Bishop
Grace as a love offering when he was in town.
(13:27):
None of this was ever mentioned in the Bible. Yet
there was Daddy Grace telling his faithful congregants during services
that he didn't want to hear the sound of jingling
coins being dropped into the donation basket. He wanted to
hear the sound of paper. People outside the church would
sometimes ask Daddy Grace about this, about the money they
(13:48):
figured that he had. He said personally that he didn't
care about money, that he only had a small salary
or none at all. It was enough of a sticking
point that he'd even sometimes address it in his sermons.
How he wasn't there because of any financial incentive.
Speaker 9 (14:07):
I'm the only poor man going and charge these people
a dying I ask him, man, see why chide, I'm
gonna die?
Speaker 4 (14:23):
And he repeated over and over that the money collected
from the congregation belonged to the United House of Prayer, which,
of course was technically true, And it was equally true
that as the head of the church, under the church's bylaws,
the bishop was given funds for personal use, funds for travel, food, housing, clothing,
(14:46):
and servants. All of that to say, Daddy Grace's lavish
lifestyle was all above board, But was it out of line?
There is a cultural discription and that needs to be clarified.
For many people of faith in America, it might seem
obscene for a religious leader to spend church funds on
(15:09):
a luxurious lifestyle. Many Christians would not recognize a holy
expression in Daddy Grace's chauffeured cars and expensive manicures, But
among the faithful in Black America, this isn't always the case.
We often expect our religious leaders.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
To be doing well.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
If anything, it was a sign of God's blessing to
speak to this truth of life in the black faith communities.
I spoke with someone who knows the criticisms and the rationale.
Bishop Talbert Swan.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
The preacher is often caught in a catch twenty two.
Speaker 10 (15:49):
If the preacher is lacking in resources and destitute, it
has to seek help himself to support his own life
style in his family. Then he's mocked and the question
is asked, what kind of God do you serve when
you can't even take care of yourself.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
Bishop Swan is the prelate and the Bishop of the
Church of God in Christ in Springfield, Massachusetts. He's also
an activist, an author, and the president of the local
NAACP chapter. His own style is more understated, but he
recognized the internal dilemma a man like Bishop Grace might
(16:32):
have faced the ways Daddy Grace made much of his
money often rubbed people the wrong way. He had a
whole product line blessed by his touch and bearing his
name Daddy Grace, soap, Daddy Greces, toothpaste, hair creams, face powder,
and cookies, emblems, badges, buttons, banners. This capitalistic promotion of
(16:54):
himself for a lot of people didn't seem right. For
a man of God, it seemed the opposite. But it's
important here to recall Daddy Grace's Catholic roots the Catholic
Church has stacked cash for centuries, growing rich by selling rosaries, handkerchiefs.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
Photos of the Pope, statues.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Of saints, any and all blessed by the Pope, and
for sale in the gift shops and at the Vatican.
So I can see the criticisms of Daddy Grace. I
see how he presented himself. I understand how his way
could be offensive to someone. But I also see someone
who was attempting to create a lifestyle really an entire
(17:34):
faith based ecosystem, one that operated pretty similarly to the
Catholic Church, with the same kind of money.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
And so for Daddy.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
Grace, just like for the Pope, if you asked him,
there was no doubt he was a man of God
and just speaking to our modern moment, Daddy Grace should
rightly be considered one of the forefathers of contemporary megachurches,
the religious movement best exemplified by Bishop td Jakes craftlow Dollar,
(18:03):
and Joel Ostein these prosperity gospel evangelists have all built
large followings as well as political power and of course,
multimillion dollar business verticals. While Bishop Swan isn't part of
this group of prosperity Gospel ministers. He understands why Daddy
Grace may have chosen this path.
Speaker 10 (18:26):
He was the prosperity preacher before it was such a thing.
And I believe that the preacher ought to be an
example of what they're preaching to the people. So if
I'm telling you that you need to get into a
position where you're debt free, or you need to conduct
your life in such a way that you can secure
a future for your family and pass on generational wealth,
(18:48):
well I've got to be the first example of that.
And for some reason, folks think that the preacher should
teach those things, but then not be the example of
those things that he or she teaches.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
It's inarguably true that sweet Daddy Grace didn't mind a
little bit of flash or a flare of style, and yes,
he certainly had that swagger and bravado. He clearly took
great care in terms of how he presented himself to
the world and to his congregants. But what also made
him special was the little things that set him apart
(19:22):
from his followers. Like he insisted that no one in
the church could grow fingernails as long as his or
there were the big things that set him apart, like
the boasts that he spoke twenty eight languages, or his
far more incredible boasts like that he alone ended World
War Two. You have to understand Daddy Grace had to
(19:45):
constantly contend and combat how other people, especially the press,
doubted him. The press, when they did write about him,
would often put his title bishop and quote, or would
focus far more on the money he raised than and
what he actually preached from the pulpit. Even Ebony Magazine
was guilty of this mistreatment. The magazine made for black readers,
(20:08):
It too, seemed to believe some of the rumors. In
one article, the journalist wrote that Grace is not his
real name, but serves a symbolic purpose. This is something
that was said a lot about Daddy Grace, that he
made up the name to sound more legit, but it
just wasn't true. Grace was the Anglicized version of Daddy
(20:30):
Grace's cap Verdian birth name, the Grassa. It was also
the name he'd been using way before he started his church.
But the notion that he'd changed his name to sound
more godly it definitely helped perpetuate the myth that Daddy
Grace was a con man or worse.
Speaker 5 (20:50):
A joke.
Speaker 6 (20:52):
It is not a surprise nor a coincidence that we're
talking about the depression era, and the depression doesn't begin
just in early thirties people African Americans.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
We see it through the twenties and lasting through the
nineteen forties.
Speaker 5 (21:04):
That's Professor Jeffries again.
Speaker 6 (21:07):
And so people are searching for something and they're finding
a bit of salvation here on earth. But for white
people to look at that, that's particularly troubling. If white
people can dismiss Daddy Grace, if they can dismiss him
as a charlatan, then they can dismiss all of the
(21:30):
other things that he's actually doing. When we think about
the big personalities with large followings during the first couple
of decades of the twentieth century, you know, I think
we have to put it into the sort of broader
context of the power of performance, the power of the
big ego.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
This is something far more common now. We almost expect
the big ego to be highly visible and the sccessful
black man. In that era, you most certainly had to
have a big ego, and you had to put it
on display where it could cost you your life or
at the very least your livelihood.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
I mean, we saw the same thing with Marcus Garvey. Right.
Speaker 6 (22:17):
If you can convince people not to take the person
who is speaking seriously, then you can dismiss the people
who'll find resonance in the message that is being offered.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Marcus Garvey, the Jamaican immigrant and political activists, advocated for
black self determination and unity between the African diaspora and Africa.
He championed ideas like Black pride and Black nationalism, and
like Daddy Grace, he was also charismatic and a polarizing figure.
(22:50):
But not everyone, including those in his own community, approved
of his approach and his focus on the needs of
the everyday black.
Speaker 6 (23:01):
And yet Garvey says, the people need it, the people
need the celebration, and there's something to be said when
we go back to the history of enslaved folk having parades, right,
having these ceremonial elections, right, which of course draw on
West African traditions. I think we're too quick sometimes to say,
(23:21):
oh that this was just a play the ego, Like no,
I mean, there was a value and understanding of the
power of this kind of performative rhetoric and performative action
in the service of religion and community building. That wasn't
just oh, you know, I'm playing a role. This is
(23:42):
a way of communication that is resonating because my people.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
See the value in this.
Speaker 6 (23:50):
Especially, I would add at a time when black folk
people of color are told to be seen and not
her having a.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Big ego, it was an act of strength and rebellion.
Speaker 6 (24:08):
The louder you were, the more attention you drew, the
more danger you drew. Because the most dangerous place to
be for a person of color was in the presence
of white people. So we are conditioning ourselves and our
children to survive, to be silent, to be unseen. And
here you have somebody who was standing up like.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
No, you are going to see me.
Speaker 6 (24:27):
And by people, that is an attraction in and of
itself because they're like, boy, that's daring, that's bold, that's
the vine, and that's what we like because we don't
get enough of it.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
The thing is, despite all this controversy surrounding him, theologically,
the United House of Prayer fit pretty soundly into other
Black Pentecostal and Apostolic churches, and Daddy Grace knew his
Bible as well as any preacher, maybe even better. Those
long fingernails he had, he said it was proof that
(24:59):
he he was a prophet, referencing an obscure Bible verse
about a prophet with horns growing.
Speaker 5 (25:05):
Out of his hands.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
And the name of his church was taken directly from
Isaiah fifty six to seven, from my house shall be
called a house of.
Speaker 5 (25:15):
Prayer for all peoples.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
He impressed people by how often he quoted scripture verbatim,
But maybe even more impressive were the connections he fostered
within his church. As is common in the Black faith communities,
Daddy Grace supplied his congregants a way to be fully
immersed in church life. For many House of Prayer members,
(25:40):
the church became the central part of their spiritual and
social lives. The services which are held every day are
lively and full of music, especially shout music. The call
and response with the repetitive sounds enraptured the congregants. They
spoke in tongs filled by the Holy Ghost. And there
(26:03):
were and are still to this day, various clubs for
different interests for all different ages, band choir, literature, banking,
junior nurses, scouts, and there were also rewards in the
form of cash, titles and positions. It was a major
privilege to be a Graceguard, Grace Queen, or a Grace
(26:26):
made personal attendance for Daddy Grace when he came to town.
All of this was intentionally designed to keep House of
Prayer members fully submerged in a life where God was
at the center and the forefront. But more than that,
it was a reminder of their own importance to God,
a message they often didn't receive outside of the church.
Speaker 10 (26:51):
The first Black denomination was founded as a result of
the inability of white folks to accept our full humanity.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
As Bishop Swan can speak to and knows well, Black churches,
including the United House of Prayer, have always been both
foundations and load bearing pillars of their communities.
Speaker 10 (27:15):
They have provided services in black communities. They have spoken
on behalf of black people, and done all of this
with only the support of their congregates. We're not talking
about endowments, We're not talking about grants and loans.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
We're talking about.
Speaker 10 (27:34):
Chicken dinners and tag sales and people giving to support
the minister, to support the church.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
In short, the Black Church gave people opportunities that they
weren't allowed to have outside in the wider world.
Speaker 10 (27:51):
Black people as we are today wouldn't be where we
are today without the Black Church. The Black Church honed
our leadership, trained our leaders. You could be the janitor
somewhere in the world with the head of the trustee
board in the church. You could be without a job
in the world with the head of the deacon board
(28:12):
in the church. And so our churches helped our people
see their own self worth. It was the one stop
plaza for everything.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
By nineteen forty nine, the United House of Prayer claimed
to have two million members. This may or may not
have been an inflated count, but regardless of the numbers,
the church served the needs of its followers, people who
were only too happy to tithe and to contribute their
time and efforts to something that was so meaningful to
(28:45):
them and their community. They gave to the House of Prayer,
and as far as they were concerned, the House of
Prayer it gave back. After World War Two ended, America
began to imagine its place in the world and to
(29:06):
adjust its domestic agenda, its balances of power, its traditions
of exclusion. As the United States grew and changed, so
did the world of black Americans. In the post war period,
black gis returned home having seen how others might treat
and respect them as full human beings, and they returned
(29:29):
home trained by the armed services in terms of how
to fight a war against racial intolerance.
Speaker 5 (29:36):
They brought that fight back.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
Home to America and began a new era in the
fight for civil rights. Daddy Grace was not at the
center of that fight, nor involved in any public way
at least, but Professor Jeffrey says that really that wasn't unusual.
Not everyone is a Malcolm or a Martin.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
I think we have an outst understanding of what the
black church was in the civil rights movement.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
The vast majority of churches never took part in civil
rights actions period.
Speaker 6 (30:16):
It's like the vast majority of black people never took
part in civil rights protests, civil rights demonstration, civil rights actions. Now,
to be sure, the church space becomes very important to
civil rights organizing. Right, the beedifics itself becomes important because
it's one of the few spaces that black people had.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Autonomous control over.
Speaker 6 (30:39):
Right, but in all of these local communities where we
see movements emerging, you might have one hundred churches and
four opened their doors. And so in a way, the
fact that you know, Daddy Grace is not a frontline
activist as a member of the clergy, it's actually not
that surprising.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
Especially after death, this perceived in action has been for
some people a mark against Daddy Grace.
Speaker 6 (31:07):
I mean, the criticism comes because they're like, oh, man,
if you're this powerful with access to these many resources,
could you and should you be doing more?
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Like that's a separate question.
Speaker 6 (31:18):
I think then, you know, should you be doing more
as a preacher, because in a sense it's kind of.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Along the lines of where most were. King was an exception.
Speaker 6 (31:30):
Yet we look back and we say, oh, everybody, all
the preachers were like King, No.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
They weren't right. They were like, look, we're not getting
involved in this message.
Speaker 6 (31:38):
Y'all gonna burn down my sanctuary, right, y'all are gonna
come after me. I ain't dealing with that. And so
it really was the rare few. But you know, we
look back now, it's like, oh, you should have been
in it.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
This is always important when assessing history to measure the
people against the standards of their time, not ours.
Speaker 6 (31:56):
I think we have to we just have to look
at the universe of possible actions, rather than just saying, oh, well,
you weren't with.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
King and Selma, so therefore you had nothing. You did
nothing at all.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
I don't think it's in either or, and ask doctor
Jeffries points out this same calculation was made by another
prominent religious leader of the day.
Speaker 6 (32:21):
You know, we see a very similar and perhaps even
more extreme decision being made by Elijah Muhammad and the
Nation of Islam. We think about the Nation of Islam,
which gives us Malcolm X as being sort of these
radical activists. Well, the Nation of Islam, as a small
group in the late nineteen thirties nineteen forties are conscientious
(32:41):
objectives to World War Two, and Elijah Muhammad and others
go to jail and the Nation of Islam almost implodes.
And so when Elijah Muhammad comes out, he says, we're
never doing that again, and so they stay on the sideline.
I mean, part of his rip with Malcolm X in
(33:01):
the mid nineteen sixties is that Malcolm wants to get
involved in civil rights. Elijah Muhammad was like, we took
too much heat in the past. We're not going to
deal with that in the present. In order to preserve
what had been built. It was just too much of
a risk to take that heat by being front.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
And center in a particular way.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
As we wrapped up our conversation, I was thinking about
Daddy Grace's legacy, what he meant to not only his
congregation but to Black America.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
I think Daddy Grace's principal legacy.
Speaker 6 (33:37):
Was about institution building, about you have to build something
more than that which you just enjoy for yourself. And
so he had a very expansive understanding, I think, of
what needed to be done to create security for people.
And he also, I mean, he was living in a
capitalist society and he understood that. He made so the
(34:01):
surveying the land, It's like, okay, what do we have
here and how does this work?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Right?
Speaker 6 (34:06):
And then he said, oh, I get it. It's all
about acquiring assets. And he did that in order to
insulate the organization that he was building that really was
committed to Some might dismiss as utopian, but really was
committed to building a better society for people. And I
think there's real value in that for us today.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Alphacente said something that struck me too, self.
Speaker 11 (34:35):
Help, building from within, creating generational wealth, and your self
from age and say, hey, you can have here as
beautiful as mind. If you use Daddy Grace from you
can have the best coffee in the world if you
buy Daddy Grace coffee.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
You know, stuff like that.
Speaker 11 (34:55):
But he he's learned from what I gathered from Walker,
where people were given some of his products and they
sold it and got some of the proceeds from it
so that they can build up themselves. But he had
Senior Citizens Center where he said people, daycare center. All
(35:17):
were involved in his churches because he believed in promoting
self help.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
So I think that's that's the biggest part of his legacy.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
I tend to agree with Alvicente and doctor Jeffries, people
who've studied Daddy Grace and understand what he was up
against and what he accomplished. But I can see why
his behavior could rub members of my family the wrong way.
Keith Verdians as a general rule, are humble, they're conservative
(35:46):
and have always done their best to stay under the
radar to protect themselves and their families. Particularly with my
family being associated with a man like sweet Daddy Grace
who was not not only highly visible, extremely controversial and
had multiple run ins with the law, it felt dangerous.
(36:09):
We can't forget that Cape Verdians in America were foreigners,
African immigrants who always ran the risk of being on
the receiving end of racism or being deported back to
a life of abject poverty and famine. My folks were
just trying to make a life for themselves and being
caught up with the wrong people or situations could completely
(36:31):
derail their lives and the lives of their families. But
it wasn't only my relatives that thought that Daddy Grace
was dangerous. The US government did too, and so Uncle
Sam tried to have him stopped. That's next time. Sweet
Daddy Grace is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Force,
(36:54):
a media group. This show is hosted by Me Marcy
de Pina and produced by Marissa Brown and Me. Our
story editors are Darryl Stewart, Duncan Riedell, and Zarren Burnett. Editing,
sound design and theme music by Jonathan Washington, Additional editing
(37:15):
by Matt Russell. Show cover art by Viviana Salgado of
Studio Creative Group. Fact checking by Austin Thompson. Our executive
producers are Marcy Depina and Jason English. Special thanks to
Will Pearson, Nikki Ettore, Ali Perry, Tamika Campbell, and Lulu
(37:37):
Phillip of iHeartMedia, and all of my family members who
talked to me for this show, my ancestors, the United
House of Prayer for All People, and the countless number
of people who shared their memories of Sweet Daddy Grace
with me. Thanks also to doctor Marie Dollam and doctor
Danielle brun Sigler, whose academic work on Sweet Dayaddy Grace
(38:00):
has been incredibly helpful. And finally, I want to thank
Bishop Grace himself for choosing me to tell his story.
For more information on Bishop Charles M. Grace, check out
the website Sweet Daddy Grace and follow me at Marcy
Depina on all social platforms
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