March 21, 2023 • 46 mins
Anna Wintour's job titles are such a mouthful—she's editor-in-chief and global editorial director of Vogue, and artistic director and global chief content officer of Condé Nast—that it's a wonder she eats lunch at all. And when she does, it's reportedly a steak and Caprese salad (hold the tomatoes) at her desk at the World Trade Center. But this week, she makes time for a veritable Italian feast with Bruce at New York's Via Carota, where they dish on everything from the Met Gala and how she came up with the idea for Vogue World to why the next frontier in fashion is designers who resell their brand's vintage products in store. Hear a preview of the episode below, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
I'm super excited. I'm back in New York City. Here
at Via Coroda, my favorite Italian restaurant in New York
on Grove Street. If you are ever in New York, please, please, please,
you must check this place out. It's just delicious, look amazing.
Thank you, thank you. Have you been here for? Today
is really special because we are having lunch with a
(00:27):
woman who doesn't usually make time to be away from
her desk at lunch. That is true. I'm more of
a breakfast present. She's an icon. She's a big deal
to me in my life, to the city. I think
she is fundamental in the fabric of New York and globally.
We're having lunch with Anna Winton, So guaB a cocktail or.
(00:50):
If this is a working lunch for you, maybe a coffee.
I really hope you enjoyed this conversation. Anna took time
out of her schedule for us on a brisk afternoon
last doctor. I'm Bruce Bosi, and this is my podcast
Table for two. Today. Everybody, we're having lunch with Dame
(01:13):
Anna Winter, who doesn't usually make time for lunch. I
think outside of your desk? Is that true? I find
that lunch tends to interrupt the day, and to be
completely honest, since we moved to the World Trade Center,
it's sort of an isolating neighborhood anyway, and so leaving
the building seems complicated and difficult, so I tend to
(01:37):
when I get there, I tend to stay. It is
a little remote. It's remote, particularly since COVID, it's become
quite or not desolate, but empty. But I'm so lucky
in my office because I have this extraordinary view not
only all over Manhattan but onto the Memorial and it's
actually I love being actually physically in my office because
(01:59):
it's such a remarkable reminder of the resilience of people. Yeah,
so I'm taking you out of your day. What does
the day look like to Well, I get up early
fish and I usually go to my trainer and that
has become quite a bizarre walk because I walk there
(02:20):
and he's on twel Street, and now that it's dark,
I walk or around Washington Square, which is you know
and interesting, you know quite know what you're you're going
to see. So I spend an hour with Daniel, who's amazing,
and then usually I run back and then my day
kicks in, sometimes with phone calls to the many territories
(02:41):
that Condenast operates in, or I just go straight to
the office, or sometimes I'll have a breakfast meeting with
people that are in from out of town. I've got
someone who likes a long meeting. I like to have
a reason for the breakfast or the lunch and not
nothing that's so social. And then I've worked of the
day many meetings with all the different brilliant editors that
(03:03):
I have the good fortune to work with a Condonast
or some members of the yelt at condon Nast, or
outside appointments occasionally, or meetings with the met you know,
I try and do things that a part of the
reason that one lives in New York, because New York
has so so much to offer and a theater, as
you know, we share that in comments. We're going to
(03:24):
talk about that. We're going to talk about your love
with theater. And so I can't get over that you
walk five in the morning to the gym, and I mean,
so you just you get up and you go. Yes.
First of all, you look amazing, thank you, thank you,
very good lighting. It's good lighting. You're in like red
floral dress is beautiful. Thank you It's It's a It's
A It's a Money dress by Francisco Rizzo. I love
(03:47):
what he's doing on money. I think it's so creative
and fun. And he had an amazing show during New
York Fashion Week, which is one of the best New
York Fashion Weeks that we've had in a long time,
because I think that we were sort of fully open.
Prins Covid and a lot of outside people came, including
a wonderful Kim Jones from Fendi that did a partnership
(04:08):
collaboration with the great Mark Jacobs, which I was told
was built around the burguette, which seemed to involve cameos
from Sarah, Jessica Parker and Linda Evangelista. But Francesco, who
was an amazing Italian designer that was much Prada's right
hand for a long time, and I think was tap
Renzo at Many about five years ago for the very
(04:31):
first time he brought his show to New York, and
he chose to show right under the Brooklyn Bridge, an
amazing orchestra and a great cast including people like Tyler
Mitchell and Erica Badoux, and it was just to have
obviously our usual cast of characters but also brilliant designers
from other parts of the world were I think just
(04:54):
fashion is global today, so to have that mix was marvelous.
And then of course it ended with the great Tom Ford,
who whenever he shows a new or lives all of
us as he does. He recently was on Table for
two and he is. He's an incredible man and he is.
He said on Table for two, anyone overthrew you shouldn't
(05:15):
go out during the day. That yes, yes, well if
you look like tom Ford you can die. And he's
any time. Everyone. One of the things that you consistently
do with me when you see me, you always ask
about me. You asked about me when my family lost
(05:35):
the business and was going through rough times. You asked
about my family, You asked about me, You asked about
the things I was working on. You are so generous
that way, and quite honestly, not a lot of people
did you know. It's weird how people don't want to
they don't sometimes really want to get real. And that
always impressed me and it meant a lot to me.
(05:57):
And so my question really is with you know, having
the job you do, which is the chief content officer
for counting to ask you're so busy. How do you
make time for friends to give advice to people? How
does that come into your life in such a way. Well,
thank you for saying that. I really appreciate it. It's
(06:20):
I'm so lucky that I have the platform that I do,
and it does put me in a position to help
people and to connect people, and I get a huge
amount of pleasure, whether it's working with my chiefs of
content around the world or you, or whoever it may be,
in learning about their lives and what they're thinking and
(06:42):
what they're doing, and if there is any way that
one can be helpful. I feel, you know, I had
amazing people that helped me when I was starting out,
and I think it's it doesn't require anything but one's time,
and I think that's just so important to give when
people are rushing so madly. And I also think, particularly
(07:06):
right now, when things is so tough and we've all
come out of COVID and the world is in the
state that it's in, that to make time to help
and connect people if one can, is so important. I
also think it's really really important to be focused because
you can't do everything and you can't help everyone, so
you think about where you do have areas of expertise
(07:27):
or you can put people in touch that will be meaningful.
So I think being focused and being clear and also
being transparent people respond to that. I've worked in my
career with and for people that maybe haven't necessarily been
that clear, and it's incredibly frustrating. And I think as
long as people know it's a yes or it's a no,
(07:48):
or I can help you or I'm really sorry, I'd
love to help people I'm not able to is better
than pretending or faking. And so that's what I try
as much as possible to do because I have been
whether I am, when people have made promises or sort
of not been clear and what they're saying or doing,
and it's you just waste everybody's t time. I so
respect that about you. One of the things, too, that
(08:10):
you are so committed to are the charities in your
life and giving back and giving back. And you know,
I can remember when you really enlistened all the for
amphar with Bono to raise money for AIDS and got
you know, everyone in New York really came out and
you and Tom recently created common Thread and also the
met Gala and I guess my question to you is,
(08:32):
you know, kind of tell me a little bit about
Common Thread and the met galas so specific and it's
so beautiful and it's so wonderful, and it's and it's
privately funded and what you've done is so special. My
question with to you, what I've always wanted to know,
is really like, what are you protecting in that space?
Because it's important to protect it, and I just so
(08:54):
I just a question. I mean, obviously, the more philanthropic
endeavors that I can I think that I feel very
personally connected to. And if we had start with something
like the initiative or Common Threat that actually was an
extension of an initiative that Vogue in the Safeta started
(09:14):
after nine to eleven, which was called the Safety of
Volde Clashion Fund. It was such an extraordinary time and
I think all of us were lost and didn't know
what to do and how one could be helpful. And
I think it comes back to Edea being focused. I
saw all the young people in my office really struggling,
(09:35):
and I saw all the young designers because it happened
probably the reason people to remember this, but it happened
during the first day of a New York flashion Clashion Week,
and so as a result, no one was able to
show obviously, and many young designers lost their deposits. And
we over the following weeks, we've got so many calls,
(09:56):
so much we do, We've lost everything, and what we
do it was we put together a fashion show for
all the young designers, and Carolina Herrera was so generous
she gave us her showroom. We invited some members of
the press, we invited some TV stations, and we got
quite a bit of press around it. And out of that,
I realized how hand to mouth the life of a
(10:20):
young designer and knew what it was, and we launched
something called the CFDA, a fashion Fund, and we pinpoint
ten designers every every year that we're going to help
them mentor and find the right mentor for long term,
and also we give them a certain amount of funday.
So that's been an existence about twenty years now, and
(10:44):
when COVID hit, If you think about the calls that
we received, they an average year, there are many, but
they multiplied. So many people were struggling, didn't know what
to do and how could we help them. So we
decided to repurpose the Fashion Fund into a common thread,
and we went out, we raised some money and the
(11:06):
very first person that called me was Ralph Lauren and
he said, I hear you raising money to support young
American signers and I said, yes, rath ers right. He said,
I'm going to give you a million bollus just like that,
and I burst into tears because I was so moved
and that he called me personally, and there was no
questions about where was the money going. He just gave
(11:27):
to us. And so once that came out, we were
able to raise a great deal more and the CFET
and VOTE put together a committee and we allocated a
certain amount of money to I can't remember now, but
I think it was over a hundred designers that were
really in need for different from different levels of grants,
from small grants to large grants. So it was about
(11:50):
knowing that we could help, that this was an area
that we had expertise in that we were able to
not only support them financially, but put them in touch
with people that could help them. So we've now gone
back to the Fashion fun and actually we had a
meeting just yesterday to talk about how that Kononas is
(12:10):
much more global than we were a few years ago.
How we could look at the fashion farm from a
global perspective, having local chapters, but a global perspective. So
that's one thing that I do that involves all a
Vogue and all of the CFTA and now hopefully blots
around the world. And then I obviously always been very
committed to causes that work with HIV, and during the
(12:34):
HIV crisis, it was just extraordinary at the time how
people just didn't want to talk about it and they
didn't want to support and it was something that obviously
within our community was very much discussed, but many many
people didn't. And the leader at the city at that
(12:56):
time was Carol in Rome and she was incredible, and
we got together as a group, Donna, Karen and Ralph
and Mark and Michael and Calvin, and we created something
called Samton Sale where it was like a big bazaar
and everybody came and they created a booth and they
sold fashion that was open to the public and we
raised millions and millions and it was also raised away.
(13:21):
So that has segued into now working with Michael on
God's Love We Deliver and Obviously Michael's done such an
incredible job broadening that delivers meals to people with all
kinds of an illness, is not just HIV. And in fact,
at the dinner, which was just last week, they were
talking about how they're doing so much work now with
(13:44):
people that are suffering from mental illness and have subie
mental health issues and can't leave the house or for
whatever reasons they need the food. And the food of
course is so important, but it's even the people that
just turn out every day, you know, just having human
connection contacts. But I also work. My ex husband was
(14:06):
chief of child psychiatry at Columbia and for many years
his subject was working with young people who had suicidal
tendencies and were suffering from severe anxiety and depression. And
about fifteen years ago he and I started to raise
money to create something called the Youth Anxiety Center, which
(14:28):
operates between Columbia and Cornell that supports research and treatment
for young people that suffer from those three illnesses depression, anxiety,
and in the severest cases from young people that are
really quite concerned about them committing suicide. And obviously during
COVID that has become even more prevalent and important, and
(14:54):
you readers, I'm sure your listeners read about how mental
health has become such an issue among young people. So
those are three causes that I care about deeply and
that I feel through personal experiences I can actually be helpful. Amazing,
here's a woman that is a person so busy and
(15:18):
in between your running a business. But it just goes
back to the idea of focus. And obviously I get
a huge amount of support and help from people in
all those different areas. And I really want to emphasize
how Michael is really the leader of God's Love. I'm there,
but he's the one that leads that with the Youth
Anxiety Center and the fashion founders are deeply personal. Welcome
(16:00):
back to Table for two. Well, we were talking with
Anna Winter about her great work with Common Thread and Amphar.
We're going to get back into that, but also the
MET gala and why it's so much more than just
a party. And then he asked me about the MET
I mean and the MET Well that was because of
Oscar I mean Oscar de Laurento, who was my great
(16:22):
friend and whose wife and Annette Laurento is also a
great personal friend. They called me a million years ago
and said, would you ever consider helping the Customer Institute?
And you know, I had been aware of the MET
and the what they did when I was first living
in New York. I was a junior editor at New
(16:43):
York Magazine, and I remember going to the MET when
I was there with someone called Henry Post, who was
my colleague a magazine who sadly died of AIDS and
was certainly one of the reasons that I wanted to
try and help at that time, and just being awed
(17:03):
by what missus Land had done, and it just seemed
it was lamorous evening i'd ever been at. And I
didn't go to the dinner. I couldn't aford to go
to the dinner. I was just at the cocktails of Henry.
But we had an amazing time. And so when an
Oscar called me because after missus Land was no longer
(17:25):
working with a museum, it's sort of there was no leadership,
or there wasn't as an involved with leadership us there
was so much vision, and asked me to see if
I could help. I mean, I really there was not
a grand plan. I just did it because if Oscar
called you always said yes, and I really was very naive.
(17:46):
I think I didn't realize what I was stepping into,
and it just became something that I felt more and
more passionate about over the years, and obviously it came
more recently. Became so close with Andrew Bolton and so
love working with him and fill to support his later
vision and his mind and helped put a spotlight on
(18:09):
the amazing work he does me and itself. And it
just grew over the years. But I can't pretend that
there was a grand plan or a grand strategy. It
just it grew. I mean, and it has been twenty
five years. It's like it in the day. It's sort
of interesting because that's the organic truth of it. Yeah,
when something has has a life of its own. I
(18:33):
think what makes it such a spectacular night is it's
organic it has grown into and it's actually, you know,
one of the things that I don't think it gets
enough credit for, at least that I've read, it's it's
an economic plus for the city. People come in, it's
all these sort of anslitnesses. Yeah, it's almost become a
(18:54):
week of celebration. Yes, I think what's really important to
note is that the cost and is to is its
own department within the museum, and everything that we raise
over the year, and particularly of course during that one night,
that is what supports it. It supports its acquisitions budget,
(19:19):
it's operating costs, the cost of the exhibition. We are
self funded, so we receive no funding at all from
the musing itself. So that is sometimes an important point
that people don't necessarily realize. And of course raising the
money is so important, and putting a spotlight on exhibitions,
and I mean bringing a much broader language of fashion
(19:44):
to a broader public is incredibly important. But I do
want to say that it's supporting somebody like Andrew who
of us of all, he's so much fun, but he's brilliant,
and to watch how his mind starts to grapple with
the subject of an exhibition. I mean, I'm sure Brian
(20:06):
talks to you a lot about this in his role.
When you see a creative vision start to unfold and
put together all the different pieces and watch the storytelling
ham a reality like right now we're working on the
exhibition for May of twenty three, which is looking at
(20:27):
the normous body of work that Carlagha felt produced over
fifty five years. And obviously a lot of people associate
Carl with Chanelle and with Bendy, but he also worked
at two when he was in his twenties, who worked
at Valma, he worked at Chloe, He had his own
(20:47):
world at carlagha Felt, plus all these different collaborations. So
it's this ham a body of amazing work, and how
do you focus that into an exhibition at the visitors
understand sure? And seeing him find that throughline it was
really interesting. We just had the press conference in Paris,
(21:08):
and we had it at Carl's own library and studio,
which really if you think about Carl, you think about sketching,
and you think about books, and you think about tactile
things like paper and pen, and this amazing library is
like wall to all thousands and thousands of books. And
(21:29):
Carl when he would he was a great book giver,
but he would never send you one copy. He would
send you like ten copies. And I would of the
same boat, and I would say to cow boy, you
send ten copies. Don't you have ten libraries? And no,
like he had ten libraries all over the world, but
those are not many of us do that, And Andrew
(21:55):
was talking about how he had really channeled Harl's vision
and mind. He talked about a line of beauty from Poker,
and he talked about how he saw all these different
lines running through Carl's work, whether it was the serpentine
line or the classical line, and that came to him
(22:16):
from watching a little video of Carl actually sketching and
seeing Carl draw these sort of lines again and again,
and then when you look at it and you see
that line running through all of his work. So he
took fifty five years of work and he put it
into a way that you and I can actually understand
(22:37):
the genius of one Karl was doing, but how he
would go back again and again to the same look,
the same idea. And in a way, that's why Carl
at Chanel, I think was always so interesting because he
was contained in a way that he wasn't at some
of the other places that he worked at, by a
(22:57):
vocabulary of watch. Chanel stood for wow. So when Andrew's
when someone identifies that line, do you just when they
present it, do you feel it viscerally insane? Yeah? Well,
now now I understand what they're an exhibition can be
and it's it's like, wow, can these enormous subjects be
(23:19):
boiled down into it a thought process that everybody can understand?
And I always say to Andrew when he comes up
with these ideas, if I don't get it in sixty seconds,
I'm the public, no one will get it. And sometimes
you know, that very deep intellectual mind will come up
with an idea, and I'm always trying to help him
(23:41):
think about how you can boil it down to an
idea that the general public will understand and want to go.
And yeah, it's and you also, you know what you're
doing is I think you're you know, fashion tells the
story of life and history. It's a global language and
that is what is so amazing thing about those exhibitions.
And right, really the timing point was the McQueen show.
(24:05):
I mean, that was just this extraordinary moment when he
died through such tragic circumstances. Andrew, and he was working
at that time with how codas his co curator, came
and said we want to do this exhibition. And I
think there was an interest in McQueen because of his
(24:26):
life and how he had unfortunately left us. And then
the exhibition was brilliant, and the visual side of the
exhibition was brilliant. I mean it just brought together all
of the designers thought processes and how he looked at
the costume and how he looked at the world. And
(24:46):
then of course the Princess of Wales was married and
a McQueen, and that was the Monday before the exhibition opened.
So there were all these forces fueling into this tight
in public interest. But we had no idea that it
was going to unleash this public interest in this exhibition.
(25:09):
And then when there were lines outside the museum every
night and then the last weekend, Andrew and I decided
we would go and sign catalogs that night because it
was going to be open till midnight. It was open
till midnight the last weekend, and it was so moving
to be there that evening that we were there, because
people stood in line six seven, eight hours to see
(25:32):
this show. And I remember there was one lady that
came up, and you know, I always say where did
you come from? And the people were coming from Australia
and Korea and from all over the world, and there
was one lady that came up and she was from
the South and she said, I've stood in line three
(25:52):
times to see this exhibition, and this time I stood
in line for six hours, and I would do it
all over again. And she must have been in her
eight Wow. And then you think this is why you're
doing it. You know it was. It was emotional and
moving and there was so many stories that I know.
We get a lot of attention around the party, but
(26:14):
we do it because of the black I will say,
I've had the good fortune of going to the party
and I seem to always get the dress wrong. I
think it's because I'm married to Brian Lord, who never
lets me. I'll tell you after Okay, so I have
some plan. Welcome back to the table, Level one. I
(26:52):
hope that you are enjoying our conversation with Anna Winter.
I know I am. And while I could talk about
the met galop all afternoon, I've got one question that's
been pressing. What's going on with men's fashion today? So
I don't know. After watching the now release David Bowie
documentary his love of fashion and the expression of his
(27:14):
music through his clothes. Bowie was androgynous, and we find
ourselves in a time where men's fashion has shifted with
the likes of Harry Styles Quirmen combining tuxedos with ball gowns, jewelry.
What is happening in men's cushion. Well, it's so I mean,
obviously Bowie was so ahead of his time, and what
(27:34):
might have been a little bit shocking at that moment
is the norm now. And I think everything is so interconnected,
and I think the fashion industry in terms of inclusivity,
has been really ahead of the game. The way that
they embrace all genders and are not being combined by
(27:55):
rules or traditions. It's so exciting, but it's so great,
and we have designers like Tom Brown that have been
really head of the curve in that way, or going
back to me more Bowie's generation, Jean Paul Gautier, and
I see it in the office, you know, I remember
(28:15):
many years ago we used to have a young man
in the office that would wear dresses and high heels,
and we were fine with it at VOBA. Maybe other
departments would raise an eyebrow or two. Now Nobe even
thinks about it. It's just accepted. It's normal. And how
great is that everyone ought to be able to express
(28:35):
their own identity, their own personality. And that's one of
the great pleasures and joys about working in fashion is
that passion is about self expression and then this is
who I am, and maybe you're that one day and
you're something else the next. And I think because fashion
has such this huge platform now through social media or
events like the Metcalor or the Oscars or whatever it
(28:57):
may be. Although the Oscars could maybe be a little
bit all experimentale, I do think that. I do think
the passion is a platform where people love to express themselves.
And how wonderful is that? It is amazing, um when
you and I find myself and for some reason, I'm
(29:18):
in the color that I know you don't really love,
which is all so not true. I love black, which
is not black all day every day. But I do
think what's so exciting is um and I dressed every
day in COVID like Brian would be in his office.
He would hear like the click any click of my
shoes and he'd be like, where are you going, And
I'm like, we't just down to the hand of the kitchen.
(29:41):
But it was very important for me to sort of
put together what I wanted to wear, because I actually
set the tone for my day self respect, So I
love that I'm too others right, And how do you
represent yourself exactly super chic in your I don't know,
in your lat pans or whatever it may to be.
It doesn't mean that you have to be in a suit, right,
(30:02):
It's just do you plan your look the night before
or you that know, when you wake up, that's how
you're feeling, right. It's more I'm a little bit not
that organize th but I you know, I like to
have a few things you were over and over and over.
And I think, particularly now when we're all so focused
(30:24):
on climate and sustainability, the idea that passion is disposable
is not something that anyone should be thinking about. You
should be thinking about things that can last. And I
keep talking to a lot of the designers about the
idea of why do you not have within your store's
vintage and vintage that is yours and you can talk
(30:48):
to your customers about why you know you're investing this
amount amount in a jacket or a bag or whatever
may be, but it lasts and then it becomes, you know,
part of your personal wardrobe and things that you might
give to your children or that you will wear over
and over. But this idea that you might want to
(31:09):
let things go, why keep them, invest in them, wear
them over and over, mix them in with new things.
So I think recycling, rethinking your wardrobe and going back
to things that you have a own for many years
is so important. I agree. I always feel too, with
the things that I have, there comes a time where
you don't really wear it, or there might be something
(31:31):
I absolutely love and I acquire knowing that it's just
not the moment for it yet, and then all of
the time it's a time will come exactly, it's time,
it will come. Well, you know. I also find in
regard to men's fashion, I find it really interesting and
you could speak to how fashion works the conflict of
(31:53):
the conservative moment we're in with people's rights being taken away,
and yet fashion is men's fashion is you know now
of the nature of this sort of androgynous way, And
I think of like when women left the fifties and
went into the sixties and everything got sure, how does
fashion play in line with well? I think the time
what we've been looking at is this idea that what
(32:17):
you wear, how you look, how you present yourself doesn't
have to be perfect and fake, you know, like it's
sort of airbrush out of all recognition that your clothes,
how you wear, how you present yourself. It's better to
look authentic and real and slightly imperfect because the world
(32:38):
that is not perfect. And I feel like a lot
of the more interesting collections that we just looked at
in during the month of shows reflected that, like it
made Maybe some of the close were a little bit
wrinkled or there were unfinished threads, but there was a
focus also of quality and craftsmanship, but it was it's
(33:02):
not a perfect world. And I felt the more interesting
designers they were optimistic collections that were many of them
were colorful, but they weren't like perfect. They weren't presenting
to the world as I'm perfect. It was sort of
more vulnerable and real and to the heart, if that
(33:23):
makes sense. It does make sense. I love that. And
when you see something like that, what does it feel
like to you when you go, Okay, this is where
we're going this season. But at this moment in time,
I think everything right now is not about a season
or a month. It's like, how do you create cultural
(33:44):
moments and how can you create content that exists across
multiable platforms, and you're talking to audiences that read your
content in many different ways, whether they're looking at what
we create through social media or through video, or through
(34:05):
an event, or through print, or through one's philanthropic efforts,
multiple different ways. So how incredible is that you have
all these different paths to take and pull together. But
remember that you need a different way of talking to
(34:28):
those audiences depending on the platform. So if we're talking
about Okay, the world's a mess, it's imperfect, fashion is
reflecting that this is a cultural moment. How do we
talk to our audiences with our enormous reach globally across
all of our different platforms to talk about that to
make them feel connected. And the other thing is you
(34:49):
have to remember that you need to bring your audiences
with you. So we just did a show in September
called Vogue World because I felt very very much that
we could bring something to the idea of what a
show could be. A lot of fashion shows that would
(35:09):
be a little different for an audience that would show
kind of what was happening. I wanted it to be
very much reflect what I saw happening in New York
at that time, and a street culture that I saw
and that how could we blow this out across video
and social media and bring our audiences in, bring our
(35:31):
vote club members in, bringing it through live streaming. So
we did a show at the beginning of fashion Show
called Vogue World New York where we took over a
whole street in the meatpacking district and we had It's like,
what kind of gave me the idea was when walking
to Washington Square in the morning or coming back, and
(35:54):
you know, if you go there in the daylight in
the summer, it's very different from when you go there
at night. But I wanted to bring it in. This
idea a central park at the weekend, where you see
people on bicycles, you see families, you see everyone doing
different color of sport. You know, everybody is wearing something different.
So this idea, there's a credible mix that you see
in New York. So we had this parade. It was
(36:16):
like dancers and models and every now and again you
would see a celebrity. You know, was that me, Sugarishop, Yes,
it was. You know. It was this amazing cultural mix
and it was very joyous and it created that cultural
moment across all of our platforms. But it wasn't a
(36:36):
traditional idea of content, like it's got to be a
cover story or it's got to be the met It was.
It was a different introach, and I think that's how
we all have to think about our content right now.
It's like what is meaningful to your world? And how
can you create a moment that people are going to
(36:56):
relate to? And I think you see people like tips
so much just that it felt very real and very authentic.
It didn't feel too drenched in celebrity, it didn't feel unattainable.
It felt joyoush and hopeful, and we ended would stop
into with Serena, you know, she opened the wrong way
and we ended with a little less so were there
(37:16):
were those celebrity moments, but it also reflected a moment
that we knew was happening in New York, whether it
was cinema or theater or dance. I think, you know,
authenticity is really the key, the key to it all.
It's the authenticity that people just are responding to what
they want to see on their plant basis. Yes, exactly
(37:46):
so this brings me miss Winter. But what you referenced
earlier was your love of theater, and I know you
love theater. You do more for theater New York than
most realized. You placed theater actors in Vogue way before
their celebrities, hence marketing them and therefore positioning theater in
a very important role. There's no other magazine that does that.
(38:09):
And be your daughter loves theater and works in theater,
and it's it's a family. It's a family that really
comes from from my dad, who was a Fleet Street
editor in London and we grew up going to the
theater and he launched something called the Evening Standard Theater Awards.
He was the editor Even Standard for many many years,
(38:29):
and it just was a way of life in our family,
and we had playwrights in the house, journalists in the house.
It was just an extension of culture. And I think
that the British particularly have a deep, deep love of
the theater, whether it's what we're taught Shakespeare, that we're
(38:49):
taught at school, whatever it may be. But it's much
more accessible, to be honest, in London than that it
is sadly here in New York. I really have to
credit my dad and my mother loved the theater as well,
and remember being taken as a young girl to strap
it on event to see A Midsummer Night's Dream. And
(39:10):
my mother told me many years later that I have
this vision of Tatiana being this lovely, young, wonderful girl,
and she said, actually was. She was probably pushing sixty.
But you know, as an eight year old, there was
just a romance to it that always stays, stays with you,
and going to see Shakespeare in the Park or Peter Pan,
(39:34):
I don't know, they just stay with you because there's
something about being in the room, having the physical contact.
And I talked to my as, I'm sure you do
your active friends. I mean they go back to the
theater again and again because there's something about having that
audience response that is very different from and I don't film.
(39:56):
I loved film, but it's a different experience. It is
a great war that I think describes you in what
is also sort of all aspects of your life, which
is romance. Yeah, and that you see the romance in
New York, you see the romance in the theater, you
see the romances everything. Now that I'm really looking at you,
the romance of the life that you create for all
(40:19):
of us, it's amazing. Well, thanks, it really is you're very,
very kind of And I've just been incredibly lucky and
incredibly lucky in my family and the people that have
helped me and the teams that I have working with
me in the worlds that I have learnt to know,
and I do. I really consider myself so fortunate and
(40:42):
that I had that experiences as a young girl, seeing
how excited my dad was by journalism and how important
the truth was to him. And my brother is political
editor diplomatic editor on The Guardian, my sister in law
(41:03):
as a political writer, and my nieces and nephew, the
ones that are old enough work in the theater. My
daughter works in peered At. My son, of course, is
an amazing doctor, but he works in mental health. So
somehow everything remains. That's sort of very unique, I mean
in your father of being such an influence because you're
in the family business. Going back to your word romance,
(41:25):
I mean going to visit him as a as a
child in Bleach Tree and seeing those old printing presses
and the guys I'm mostly like White Adam a movie
with advisers, and you know they had to get hold
the presses, all that stuff. I grew up with that
and the man that he worked for calling him at
four o'clock in the morning because it was breaking news
(41:47):
and for some reason, the foam was in my bed.
I would be the one that would go upstairs and
talent such and such a that's happened. So I mean
that that stays with you and it's it's so exciting.
So you bring up politics, and I've had such good
fortune to have dinner with you, with Brian where we
get to be real and we just can talk. And
(42:07):
I'm always struck by your up to the second knowledge
of political races and candidates and we're not here to
talk about candidates, but being English, you're you know, Damed,
it's a big deal. Why are you so committed to
our democracy? And where does that come from? Well, it
goes back to growing up with journalism. I'm seeing my
(42:28):
father and the people that we had frequently in house,
mostly journalists, being so committed. And the political landscape reflects
our times, it reflects our culture, and I know I
was very lucky in that my my family and still
values in all of us. You know, you can't live
(42:50):
your life under the shadow, but I do think you
are shaped by your up ring I'm sure you must
reveal that and what you're exupposed to and politics is
just what was discussed at home. And I find what's
happening right now in many ways so deeply disturbing to
see how polarizing her politics have become, and how truth
(43:14):
has not seems to be meaningless and eyes of many,
and so anything that all of us can do in
our own small ways to help reshape that conversation, I
think for the sake of our children, our grandchildren and
generations to come. As our lunch today with Anna comes
(43:35):
to a close, I want to thank all of you
for falling up a chair. I know Anna has to
get back to work. So there's just one little question
I have for her. I guess, Anna, as we sort
of wrap it up, what brings you joy? My children,
my children, my grandchildren. I mean, there's in the end,
(43:55):
it's thick, it's family. It's family, obviously, It's I mean,
I love I love my work. I love the work
I do with Andrew at the museum. Obviously that's super
important to me. But you know, in the end, it's
it's it's you, it's your family. And then, on a
more simplistic and less complicated. You know, love my gardens.
(44:20):
You know I love the joy of watching a great
tennis match, So I love a great performance. I mean,
I I have so much respect when I see people
who are completely dedicated to what they do and do
it extremely well. I mean I I'm asked a lot
about someone like Roger feder who's been a friend of
(44:42):
mine for so many years. And watching Roger play on
the court with so much grace and elegance and style
and talent, you know, that is to me that that's
seeing someone who is the best at what they do.
That that's joy. And if I can help with her
it standards or politics, or theater, or mental health or
(45:03):
any of the things that we've been having this wonderful
discussion about, if I can help in any way put
any kind of a spotlight on that, then that certainly
gives me joy. Your description of Roger Federer, who I
also agree, is a description of yourself. You are elegant,
You are filled with grace, You are incredibly wise and generous,
(45:26):
and I can't thank you enough for pulling up a
cheer today and having lunch with me. It means everything.
Thank you, Bruce. You've been so kind and generous to
me and I so appreciate it. Table for Two with
(45:46):
Bruce Bozzi is produced by iHeartRadio seven three seven Park
and Airmail. Our executive producers are Bruce Bozzi, Jonathan Hollis
Dressler and Nathan King. Table for Two is edited and
written by Tina Mullen and researched and written by Bridget
arsenalt Our sound engineers are Emil B. Klein, Paul Bowman
and Melissa Midcalf. Table for two is LA production team
(46:09):
is Danielle Romo and Lorraine viz. Our music supervisor is
Randall Poster. Our talent booking is by Jane Sark. Special
thanks to Amy Sugarman, Uni Cher, Kevin Yuvane, Bobby Bauer,
Alison Cantor Graber, and Jody Williams, Rita Sodi and the
team at Via Coroda in Manhattan's West Village. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or
(46:33):
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
I'm super excited. I'm back in New York City. Here
at Via Coroda, my favorite Italian restaurant in New York
on Grove Street. If you are ever in New York, please, please, please,
you must check this place out. It's just delicious, look amazing.
Thank you, thank you. Have you been here for? Today
is really special because we are having lunch with a
(00:27):
woman who doesn't usually make time to be away from
her desk at lunch. That is true. I'm more of
a breakfast present. She's an icon. She's a big deal
to me in my life, to the city. I think
she is fundamental in the fabric of New York and globally.
We're having lunch with Anna Winton, So guaB a cocktail or.
(00:50):
If this is a working lunch for you, maybe a coffee.
I really hope you enjoyed this conversation. Anna took time
out of her schedule for us on a brisk afternoon
last doctor. I'm Bruce Bosi, and this is my podcast
Table for two. Today. Everybody, we're having lunch with Dame
(01:13):
Anna Winter, who doesn't usually make time for lunch. I
think outside of your desk? Is that true? I find
that lunch tends to interrupt the day, and to be
completely honest, since we moved to the World Trade Center,
it's sort of an isolating neighborhood anyway, and so leaving
the building seems complicated and difficult, so I tend to
(01:37):
when I get there, I tend to stay. It is
a little remote. It's remote, particularly since COVID, it's become
quite or not desolate, but empty. But I'm so lucky
in my office because I have this extraordinary view not
only all over Manhattan but onto the Memorial and it's
actually I love being actually physically in my office because
(01:59):
it's such a remarkable reminder of the resilience of people. Yeah,
so I'm taking you out of your day. What does
the day look like to Well, I get up early
fish and I usually go to my trainer and that
has become quite a bizarre walk because I walk there
(02:20):
and he's on twel Street, and now that it's dark,
I walk or around Washington Square, which is you know
and interesting, you know quite know what you're you're going
to see. So I spend an hour with Daniel, who's amazing,
and then usually I run back and then my day
kicks in, sometimes with phone calls to the many territories
(02:41):
that Condenast operates in, or I just go straight to
the office, or sometimes I'll have a breakfast meeting with
people that are in from out of town. I've got
someone who likes a long meeting. I like to have
a reason for the breakfast or the lunch and not
nothing that's so social. And then I've worked of the
day many meetings with all the different brilliant editors that
(03:03):
I have the good fortune to work with a Condonast
or some members of the yelt at condon Nast, or
outside appointments occasionally, or meetings with the met you know,
I try and do things that a part of the
reason that one lives in New York, because New York
has so so much to offer and a theater, as
you know, we share that in comments. We're going to
(03:24):
talk about that. We're going to talk about your love
with theater. And so I can't get over that you
walk five in the morning to the gym, and I mean,
so you just you get up and you go. Yes.
First of all, you look amazing, thank you, thank you,
very good lighting. It's good lighting. You're in like red
floral dress is beautiful. Thank you It's It's a It's
A It's a Money dress by Francisco Rizzo. I love
(03:47):
what he's doing on money. I think it's so creative
and fun. And he had an amazing show during New
York Fashion Week, which is one of the best New
York Fashion Weeks that we've had in a long time,
because I think that we were sort of fully open.
Prins Covid and a lot of outside people came, including
a wonderful Kim Jones from Fendi that did a partnership
(04:08):
collaboration with the great Mark Jacobs, which I was told
was built around the burguette, which seemed to involve cameos
from Sarah, Jessica Parker and Linda Evangelista. But Francesco, who
was an amazing Italian designer that was much Prada's right
hand for a long time, and I think was tap
Renzo at Many about five years ago for the very
(04:31):
first time he brought his show to New York, and
he chose to show right under the Brooklyn Bridge, an
amazing orchestra and a great cast including people like Tyler
Mitchell and Erica Badoux, and it was just to have
obviously our usual cast of characters but also brilliant designers
from other parts of the world were I think just
(04:54):
fashion is global today, so to have that mix was marvelous.
And then of course it ended with the great Tom Ford,
who whenever he shows a new or lives all of
us as he does. He recently was on Table for
two and he is. He's an incredible man and he is.
He said on Table for two, anyone overthrew you shouldn't
(05:15):
go out during the day. That yes, yes, well if
you look like tom Ford you can die. And he's
any time. Everyone. One of the things that you consistently
do with me when you see me, you always ask
about me. You asked about me when my family lost
(05:35):
the business and was going through rough times. You asked
about my family, You asked about me, You asked about
the things I was working on. You are so generous
that way, and quite honestly, not a lot of people
did you know. It's weird how people don't want to
they don't sometimes really want to get real. And that
always impressed me and it meant a lot to me.
(05:57):
And so my question really is with you know, having
the job you do, which is the chief content officer
for counting to ask you're so busy. How do you
make time for friends to give advice to people? How
does that come into your life in such a way. Well,
thank you for saying that. I really appreciate it. It's
(06:20):
I'm so lucky that I have the platform that I do,
and it does put me in a position to help
people and to connect people, and I get a huge
amount of pleasure, whether it's working with my chiefs of
content around the world or you, or whoever it may be,
in learning about their lives and what they're thinking and
(06:42):
what they're doing, and if there is any way that
one can be helpful. I feel, you know, I had
amazing people that helped me when I was starting out,
and I think it's it doesn't require anything but one's time,
and I think that's just so important to give when
people are rushing so madly. And I also think, particularly
(07:06):
right now, when things is so tough and we've all
come out of COVID and the world is in the
state that it's in, that to make time to help
and connect people if one can, is so important. I
also think it's really really important to be focused because
you can't do everything and you can't help everyone, so
you think about where you do have areas of expertise
(07:27):
or you can put people in touch that will be meaningful.
So I think being focused and being clear and also
being transparent people respond to that. I've worked in my
career with and for people that maybe haven't necessarily been
that clear, and it's incredibly frustrating. And I think as
long as people know it's a yes or it's a no,
(07:48):
or I can help you or I'm really sorry, I'd
love to help people I'm not able to is better
than pretending or faking. And so that's what I try
as much as possible to do because I have been
whether I am, when people have made promises or sort
of not been clear and what they're saying or doing,
and it's you just waste everybody's t time. I so
respect that about you. One of the things, too, that
(08:10):
you are so committed to are the charities in your
life and giving back and giving back. And you know,
I can remember when you really enlistened all the for
amphar with Bono to raise money for AIDS and got
you know, everyone in New York really came out and
you and Tom recently created common Thread and also the
met Gala and I guess my question to you is,
(08:32):
you know, kind of tell me a little bit about
Common Thread and the met galas so specific and it's
so beautiful and it's so wonderful, and it's and it's
privately funded and what you've done is so special. My
question with to you, what I've always wanted to know,
is really like, what are you protecting in that space?
Because it's important to protect it, and I just so
(08:54):
I just a question. I mean, obviously, the more philanthropic
endeavors that I can I think that I feel very
personally connected to. And if we had start with something
like the initiative or Common Threat that actually was an
extension of an initiative that Vogue in the Safeta started
(09:14):
after nine to eleven, which was called the Safety of
Volde Clashion Fund. It was such an extraordinary time and
I think all of us were lost and didn't know
what to do and how one could be helpful. And
I think it comes back to Edea being focused. I
saw all the young people in my office really struggling,
(09:35):
and I saw all the young designers because it happened
probably the reason people to remember this, but it happened
during the first day of a New York flashion Clashion Week,
and so as a result, no one was able to
show obviously, and many young designers lost their deposits. And
we over the following weeks, we've got so many calls,
(09:56):
so much we do, We've lost everything, and what we
do it was we put together a fashion show for
all the young designers, and Carolina Herrera was so generous
she gave us her showroom. We invited some members of
the press, we invited some TV stations, and we got
quite a bit of press around it. And out of that,
I realized how hand to mouth the life of a
(10:20):
young designer and knew what it was, and we launched
something called the CFDA, a fashion Fund, and we pinpoint
ten designers every every year that we're going to help
them mentor and find the right mentor for long term,
and also we give them a certain amount of funday.
So that's been an existence about twenty years now, and
(10:44):
when COVID hit, If you think about the calls that
we received, they an average year, there are many, but
they multiplied. So many people were struggling, didn't know what
to do and how could we help them. So we
decided to repurpose the Fashion Fund into a common thread,
and we went out, we raised some money and the
(11:06):
very first person that called me was Ralph Lauren and
he said, I hear you raising money to support young
American signers and I said, yes, rath ers right. He said,
I'm going to give you a million bollus just like that,
and I burst into tears because I was so moved
and that he called me personally, and there was no
questions about where was the money going. He just gave
(11:27):
to us. And so once that came out, we were
able to raise a great deal more and the CFET
and VOTE put together a committee and we allocated a
certain amount of money to I can't remember now, but
I think it was over a hundred designers that were
really in need for different from different levels of grants,
from small grants to large grants. So it was about
(11:50):
knowing that we could help, that this was an area
that we had expertise in that we were able to
not only support them financially, but put them in touch
with people that could help them. So we've now gone
back to the Fashion fun and actually we had a
meeting just yesterday to talk about how that Kononas is
(12:10):
much more global than we were a few years ago.
How we could look at the fashion farm from a
global perspective, having local chapters, but a global perspective. So
that's one thing that I do that involves all a
Vogue and all of the CFTA and now hopefully blots
around the world. And then I obviously always been very
committed to causes that work with HIV, and during the
(12:34):
HIV crisis, it was just extraordinary at the time how
people just didn't want to talk about it and they
didn't want to support and it was something that obviously
within our community was very much discussed, but many many
people didn't. And the leader at the city at that
(12:56):
time was Carol in Rome and she was incredible, and
we got together as a group, Donna, Karen and Ralph
and Mark and Michael and Calvin, and we created something
called Samton Sale where it was like a big bazaar
and everybody came and they created a booth and they
sold fashion that was open to the public and we
raised millions and millions and it was also raised away.
(13:21):
So that has segued into now working with Michael on
God's Love We Deliver and Obviously Michael's done such an
incredible job broadening that delivers meals to people with all
kinds of an illness, is not just HIV. And in fact,
at the dinner, which was just last week, they were
talking about how they're doing so much work now with
(13:44):
people that are suffering from mental illness and have subie
mental health issues and can't leave the house or for
whatever reasons they need the food. And the food of
course is so important, but it's even the people that
just turn out every day, you know, just having human
connection contacts. But I also work. My ex husband was
(14:06):
chief of child psychiatry at Columbia and for many years
his subject was working with young people who had suicidal
tendencies and were suffering from severe anxiety and depression. And
about fifteen years ago he and I started to raise
money to create something called the Youth Anxiety Center, which
(14:28):
operates between Columbia and Cornell that supports research and treatment
for young people that suffer from those three illnesses depression, anxiety,
and in the severest cases from young people that are
really quite concerned about them committing suicide. And obviously during
COVID that has become even more prevalent and important, and
(14:54):
you readers, I'm sure your listeners read about how mental
health has become such an issue among young people. So
those are three causes that I care about deeply and
that I feel through personal experiences I can actually be helpful. Amazing,
here's a woman that is a person so busy and
(15:18):
in between your running a business. But it just goes
back to the idea of focus. And obviously I get
a huge amount of support and help from people in
all those different areas. And I really want to emphasize
how Michael is really the leader of God's Love. I'm there,
but he's the one that leads that with the Youth
Anxiety Center and the fashion founders are deeply personal. Welcome
(16:00):
back to Table for two. Well, we were talking with
Anna Winter about her great work with Common Thread and Amphar.
We're going to get back into that, but also the
MET gala and why it's so much more than just
a party. And then he asked me about the MET
I mean and the MET Well that was because of
Oscar I mean Oscar de Laurento, who was my great
(16:22):
friend and whose wife and Annette Laurento is also a
great personal friend. They called me a million years ago
and said, would you ever consider helping the Customer Institute?
And you know, I had been aware of the MET
and the what they did when I was first living
in New York. I was a junior editor at New
(16:43):
York Magazine, and I remember going to the MET when
I was there with someone called Henry Post, who was
my colleague a magazine who sadly died of AIDS and
was certainly one of the reasons that I wanted to
try and help at that time, and just being awed
(17:03):
by what missus Land had done, and it just seemed
it was lamorous evening i'd ever been at. And I
didn't go to the dinner. I couldn't aford to go
to the dinner. I was just at the cocktails of Henry.
But we had an amazing time. And so when an
Oscar called me because after missus Land was no longer
(17:25):
working with a museum, it's sort of there was no leadership,
or there wasn't as an involved with leadership us there
was so much vision, and asked me to see if
I could help. I mean, I really there was not
a grand plan. I just did it because if Oscar
called you always said yes, and I really was very naive.
(17:46):
I think I didn't realize what I was stepping into,
and it just became something that I felt more and
more passionate about over the years, and obviously it came
more recently. Became so close with Andrew Bolton and so
love working with him and fill to support his later
vision and his mind and helped put a spotlight on
(18:09):
the amazing work he does me and itself. And it
just grew over the years. But I can't pretend that
there was a grand plan or a grand strategy. It
just it grew. I mean, and it has been twenty
five years. It's like it in the day. It's sort
of interesting because that's the organic truth of it. Yeah,
when something has has a life of its own. I
(18:33):
think what makes it such a spectacular night is it's
organic it has grown into and it's actually, you know,
one of the things that I don't think it gets
enough credit for, at least that I've read, it's it's
an economic plus for the city. People come in, it's
all these sort of anslitnesses. Yeah, it's almost become a
(18:54):
week of celebration. Yes, I think what's really important to
note is that the cost and is to is its
own department within the museum, and everything that we raise
over the year, and particularly of course during that one night,
that is what supports it. It supports its acquisitions budget,
(19:19):
it's operating costs, the cost of the exhibition. We are
self funded, so we receive no funding at all from
the musing itself. So that is sometimes an important point
that people don't necessarily realize. And of course raising the
money is so important, and putting a spotlight on exhibitions,
and I mean bringing a much broader language of fashion
(19:44):
to a broader public is incredibly important. But I do
want to say that it's supporting somebody like Andrew who
of us of all, he's so much fun, but he's brilliant,
and to watch how his mind starts to grapple with
the subject of an exhibition. I mean, I'm sure Brian
(20:06):
talks to you a lot about this in his role.
When you see a creative vision start to unfold and
put together all the different pieces and watch the storytelling
ham a reality like right now we're working on the
exhibition for May of twenty three, which is looking at
(20:27):
the normous body of work that Carlagha felt produced over
fifty five years. And obviously a lot of people associate
Carl with Chanelle and with Bendy, but he also worked
at two when he was in his twenties, who worked
at Valma, he worked at Chloe, He had his own
(20:47):
world at carlagha Felt, plus all these different collaborations. So
it's this ham a body of amazing work, and how
do you focus that into an exhibition at the visitors
understand sure? And seeing him find that throughline it was
really interesting. We just had the press conference in Paris,
(21:08):
and we had it at Carl's own library and studio,
which really if you think about Carl, you think about sketching,
and you think about books, and you think about tactile
things like paper and pen, and this amazing library is
like wall to all thousands and thousands of books. And
(21:29):
Carl when he would he was a great book giver,
but he would never send you one copy. He would
send you like ten copies. And I would of the
same boat, and I would say to cow boy, you
send ten copies. Don't you have ten libraries? And no,
like he had ten libraries all over the world, but
those are not many of us do that, And Andrew
(21:55):
was talking about how he had really channeled Harl's vision
and mind. He talked about a line of beauty from Poker,
and he talked about how he saw all these different
lines running through Carl's work, whether it was the serpentine
line or the classical line, and that came to him
(22:16):
from watching a little video of Carl actually sketching and
seeing Carl draw these sort of lines again and again,
and then when you look at it and you see
that line running through all of his work. So he
took fifty five years of work and he put it
into a way that you and I can actually understand
(22:37):
the genius of one Karl was doing, but how he
would go back again and again to the same look,
the same idea. And in a way, that's why Carl
at Chanel, I think was always so interesting because he
was contained in a way that he wasn't at some
of the other places that he worked at, by a
(22:57):
vocabulary of watch. Chanel stood for wow. So when Andrew's
when someone identifies that line, do you just when they
present it, do you feel it viscerally insane? Yeah? Well,
now now I understand what they're an exhibition can be
and it's it's like, wow, can these enormous subjects be
(23:19):
boiled down into it a thought process that everybody can understand?
And I always say to Andrew when he comes up
with these ideas, if I don't get it in sixty seconds,
I'm the public, no one will get it. And sometimes
you know, that very deep intellectual mind will come up
with an idea, and I'm always trying to help him
(23:41):
think about how you can boil it down to an
idea that the general public will understand and want to go.
And yeah, it's and you also, you know what you're
doing is I think you're you know, fashion tells the
story of life and history. It's a global language and
that is what is so amazing thing about those exhibitions.
And right, really the timing point was the McQueen show.
(24:05):
I mean, that was just this extraordinary moment when he
died through such tragic circumstances. Andrew, and he was working
at that time with how codas his co curator, came
and said we want to do this exhibition. And I
think there was an interest in McQueen because of his
(24:26):
life and how he had unfortunately left us. And then
the exhibition was brilliant, and the visual side of the
exhibition was brilliant. I mean it just brought together all
of the designers thought processes and how he looked at
the costume and how he looked at the world. And
(24:46):
then of course the Princess of Wales was married and
a McQueen, and that was the Monday before the exhibition opened.
So there were all these forces fueling into this tight
in public interest. But we had no idea that it
was going to unleash this public interest in this exhibition.
(25:09):
And then when there were lines outside the museum every
night and then the last weekend, Andrew and I decided
we would go and sign catalogs that night because it
was going to be open till midnight. It was open
till midnight the last weekend, and it was so moving
to be there that evening that we were there, because
people stood in line six seven, eight hours to see
(25:32):
this show. And I remember there was one lady that
came up, and you know, I always say where did
you come from? And the people were coming from Australia
and Korea and from all over the world, and there
was one lady that came up and she was from
the South and she said, I've stood in line three
(25:52):
times to see this exhibition, and this time I stood
in line for six hours, and I would do it
all over again. And she must have been in her
eight Wow. And then you think this is why you're
doing it. You know it was. It was emotional and
moving and there was so many stories that I know.
We get a lot of attention around the party, but
(26:14):
we do it because of the black I will say,
I've had the good fortune of going to the party
and I seem to always get the dress wrong. I
think it's because I'm married to Brian Lord, who never
lets me. I'll tell you after Okay, so I have
some plan. Welcome back to the table, Level one. I
(26:52):
hope that you are enjoying our conversation with Anna Winter.
I know I am. And while I could talk about
the met galop all afternoon, I've got one question that's
been pressing. What's going on with men's fashion today? So
I don't know. After watching the now release David Bowie
documentary his love of fashion and the expression of his
(27:14):
music through his clothes. Bowie was androgynous, and we find
ourselves in a time where men's fashion has shifted with
the likes of Harry Styles Quirmen combining tuxedos with ball gowns, jewelry.
What is happening in men's cushion. Well, it's so I mean,
obviously Bowie was so ahead of his time, and what
(27:34):
might have been a little bit shocking at that moment
is the norm now. And I think everything is so interconnected,
and I think the fashion industry in terms of inclusivity,
has been really ahead of the game. The way that
they embrace all genders and are not being combined by
(27:55):
rules or traditions. It's so exciting, but it's so great,
and we have designers like Tom Brown that have been
really head of the curve in that way, or going
back to me more Bowie's generation, Jean Paul Gautier, and
I see it in the office, you know, I remember
(28:15):
many years ago we used to have a young man
in the office that would wear dresses and high heels,
and we were fine with it at VOBA. Maybe other
departments would raise an eyebrow or two. Now Nobe even
thinks about it. It's just accepted. It's normal. And how
great is that everyone ought to be able to express
(28:35):
their own identity, their own personality. And that's one of
the great pleasures and joys about working in fashion is
that passion is about self expression and then this is
who I am, and maybe you're that one day and
you're something else the next. And I think because fashion
has such this huge platform now through social media or
events like the Metcalor or the Oscars or whatever it
(28:57):
may be. Although the Oscars could maybe be a little
bit all experimentale, I do think that. I do think
the passion is a platform where people love to express themselves.
And how wonderful is that? It is amazing, um when
you and I find myself and for some reason, I'm
(29:18):
in the color that I know you don't really love,
which is all so not true. I love black, which
is not black all day every day. But I do
think what's so exciting is um and I dressed every
day in COVID like Brian would be in his office.
He would hear like the click any click of my
shoes and he'd be like, where are you going, And
I'm like, we't just down to the hand of the kitchen.
(29:41):
But it was very important for me to sort of
put together what I wanted to wear, because I actually
set the tone for my day self respect, So I
love that I'm too others right, And how do you
represent yourself exactly super chic in your I don't know,
in your lat pans or whatever it may to be.
It doesn't mean that you have to be in a suit, right,
(30:02):
It's just do you plan your look the night before
or you that know, when you wake up, that's how
you're feeling, right. It's more I'm a little bit not
that organize th but I you know, I like to
have a few things you were over and over and over.
And I think, particularly now when we're all so focused
(30:24):
on climate and sustainability, the idea that passion is disposable
is not something that anyone should be thinking about. You
should be thinking about things that can last. And I
keep talking to a lot of the designers about the
idea of why do you not have within your store's
vintage and vintage that is yours and you can talk
(30:48):
to your customers about why you know you're investing this
amount amount in a jacket or a bag or whatever
may be, but it lasts and then it becomes, you know,
part of your personal wardrobe and things that you might
give to your children or that you will wear over
and over. But this idea that you might want to
(31:09):
let things go, why keep them, invest in them, wear
them over and over, mix them in with new things.
So I think recycling, rethinking your wardrobe and going back
to things that you have a own for many years
is so important. I agree. I always feel too, with
the things that I have, there comes a time where
you don't really wear it, or there might be something
(31:31):
I absolutely love and I acquire knowing that it's just
not the moment for it yet, and then all of
the time it's a time will come exactly, it's time,
it will come. Well, you know. I also find in
regard to men's fashion, I find it really interesting and
you could speak to how fashion works the conflict of
(31:53):
the conservative moment we're in with people's rights being taken away,
and yet fashion is men's fashion is you know now
of the nature of this sort of androgynous way, And
I think of like when women left the fifties and
went into the sixties and everything got sure, how does
fashion play in line with well? I think the time
what we've been looking at is this idea that what
(32:17):
you wear, how you look, how you present yourself doesn't
have to be perfect and fake, you know, like it's
sort of airbrush out of all recognition that your clothes,
how you wear, how you present yourself. It's better to
look authentic and real and slightly imperfect because the world
(32:38):
that is not perfect. And I feel like a lot
of the more interesting collections that we just looked at
in during the month of shows reflected that, like it
made Maybe some of the close were a little bit
wrinkled or there were unfinished threads, but there was a
focus also of quality and craftsmanship, but it was it's
(33:02):
not a perfect world. And I felt the more interesting
designers they were optimistic collections that were many of them
were colorful, but they weren't like perfect. They weren't presenting
to the world as I'm perfect. It was sort of
more vulnerable and real and to the heart, if that
(33:23):
makes sense. It does make sense. I love that. And
when you see something like that, what does it feel
like to you when you go, Okay, this is where
we're going this season. But at this moment in time,
I think everything right now is not about a season
or a month. It's like, how do you create cultural
(33:44):
moments and how can you create content that exists across
multiable platforms, and you're talking to audiences that read your
content in many different ways, whether they're looking at what
we create through social media or through video, or through
(34:05):
an event, or through print, or through one's philanthropic efforts,
multiple different ways. So how incredible is that you have
all these different paths to take and pull together. But
remember that you need a different way of talking to
(34:28):
those audiences depending on the platform. So if we're talking
about Okay, the world's a mess, it's imperfect, fashion is
reflecting that this is a cultural moment. How do we
talk to our audiences with our enormous reach globally across
all of our different platforms to talk about that to
make them feel connected. And the other thing is you
(34:49):
have to remember that you need to bring your audiences
with you. So we just did a show in September
called Vogue World because I felt very very much that
we could bring something to the idea of what a
show could be. A lot of fashion shows that would
(35:09):
be a little different for an audience that would show
kind of what was happening. I wanted it to be
very much reflect what I saw happening in New York
at that time, and a street culture that I saw
and that how could we blow this out across video
and social media and bring our audiences in, bring our
(35:31):
vote club members in, bringing it through live streaming. So
we did a show at the beginning of fashion Show
called Vogue World New York where we took over a
whole street in the meatpacking district and we had It's like,
what kind of gave me the idea was when walking
to Washington Square in the morning or coming back, and
(35:54):
you know, if you go there in the daylight in
the summer, it's very different from when you go there
at night. But I wanted to bring it in. This
idea a central park at the weekend, where you see
people on bicycles, you see families, you see everyone doing
different color of sport. You know, everybody is wearing something different.
So this idea, there's a credible mix that you see
in New York. So we had this parade. It was
(36:16):
like dancers and models and every now and again you
would see a celebrity. You know, was that me, Sugarishop, Yes,
it was. You know. It was this amazing cultural mix
and it was very joyous and it created that cultural
moment across all of our platforms. But it wasn't a
(36:36):
traditional idea of content, like it's got to be a
cover story or it's got to be the met It was.
It was a different introach, and I think that's how
we all have to think about our content right now.
It's like what is meaningful to your world? And how
can you create a moment that people are going to
(36:56):
relate to? And I think you see people like tips
so much just that it felt very real and very authentic.
It didn't feel too drenched in celebrity, it didn't feel unattainable.
It felt joyoush and hopeful, and we ended would stop
into with Serena, you know, she opened the wrong way
and we ended with a little less so were there
(37:16):
were those celebrity moments, but it also reflected a moment
that we knew was happening in New York, whether it
was cinema or theater or dance. I think, you know,
authenticity is really the key, the key to it all.
It's the authenticity that people just are responding to what
they want to see on their plant basis. Yes, exactly
(37:46):
so this brings me miss Winter. But what you referenced
earlier was your love of theater, and I know you
love theater. You do more for theater New York than
most realized. You placed theater actors in Vogue way before
their celebrities, hence marketing them and therefore positioning theater in
a very important role. There's no other magazine that does that.
(38:09):
And be your daughter loves theater and works in theater,
and it's it's a family. It's a family that really
comes from from my dad, who was a Fleet Street
editor in London and we grew up going to the
theater and he launched something called the Evening Standard Theater Awards.
He was the editor Even Standard for many many years,
(38:29):
and it just was a way of life in our family,
and we had playwrights in the house, journalists in the house.
It was just an extension of culture. And I think
that the British particularly have a deep, deep love of
the theater, whether it's what we're taught Shakespeare, that we're
(38:49):
taught at school, whatever it may be. But it's much
more accessible, to be honest, in London than that it
is sadly here in New York. I really have to
credit my dad and my mother loved the theater as well,
and remember being taken as a young girl to strap
it on event to see A Midsummer Night's Dream. And
(39:10):
my mother told me many years later that I have
this vision of Tatiana being this lovely, young, wonderful girl,
and she said, actually was. She was probably pushing sixty.
But you know, as an eight year old, there was
just a romance to it that always stays, stays with you,
and going to see Shakespeare in the Park or Peter Pan,
(39:34):
I don't know, they just stay with you because there's
something about being in the room, having the physical contact.
And I talked to my as, I'm sure you do
your active friends. I mean they go back to the
theater again and again because there's something about having that
audience response that is very different from and I don't film.
(39:56):
I loved film, but it's a different experience. It is
a great war that I think describes you in what
is also sort of all aspects of your life, which
is romance. Yeah, and that you see the romance in
New York, you see the romance in the theater, you
see the romances everything. Now that I'm really looking at you,
the romance of the life that you create for all
(40:19):
of us, it's amazing. Well, thanks, it really is you're very,
very kind of And I've just been incredibly lucky and
incredibly lucky in my family and the people that have
helped me and the teams that I have working with
me in the worlds that I have learnt to know,
and I do. I really consider myself so fortunate and
(40:42):
that I had that experiences as a young girl, seeing
how excited my dad was by journalism and how important
the truth was to him. And my brother is political
editor diplomatic editor on The Guardian, my sister in law
(41:03):
as a political writer, and my nieces and nephew, the
ones that are old enough work in the theater. My
daughter works in peered At. My son, of course, is
an amazing doctor, but he works in mental health. So
somehow everything remains. That's sort of very unique, I mean
in your father of being such an influence because you're
in the family business. Going back to your word romance,
(41:25):
I mean going to visit him as a as a
child in Bleach Tree and seeing those old printing presses
and the guys I'm mostly like White Adam a movie
with advisers, and you know they had to get hold
the presses, all that stuff. I grew up with that
and the man that he worked for calling him at
four o'clock in the morning because it was breaking news
(41:47):
and for some reason, the foam was in my bed.
I would be the one that would go upstairs and
talent such and such a that's happened. So I mean
that that stays with you and it's it's so exciting.
So you bring up politics, and I've had such good
fortune to have dinner with you, with Brian where we
get to be real and we just can talk. And
(42:07):
I'm always struck by your up to the second knowledge
of political races and candidates and we're not here to
talk about candidates, but being English, you're you know, Damed,
it's a big deal. Why are you so committed to
our democracy? And where does that come from? Well, it
goes back to growing up with journalism. I'm seeing my
(42:28):
father and the people that we had frequently in house,
mostly journalists, being so committed. And the political landscape reflects
our times, it reflects our culture, and I know I
was very lucky in that my my family and still
values in all of us. You know, you can't live
(42:50):
your life under the shadow, but I do think you
are shaped by your up ring I'm sure you must
reveal that and what you're exupposed to and politics is
just what was discussed at home. And I find what's
happening right now in many ways so deeply disturbing to
see how polarizing her politics have become, and how truth
(43:14):
has not seems to be meaningless and eyes of many,
and so anything that all of us can do in
our own small ways to help reshape that conversation, I
think for the sake of our children, our grandchildren and
generations to come. As our lunch today with Anna comes
(43:35):
to a close, I want to thank all of you
for falling up a chair. I know Anna has to
get back to work. So there's just one little question
I have for her. I guess, Anna, as we sort
of wrap it up, what brings you joy? My children,
my children, my grandchildren. I mean, there's in the end,
(43:55):
it's thick, it's family. It's family, obviously, It's I mean,
I love I love my work. I love the work
I do with Andrew at the museum. Obviously that's super
important to me. But you know, in the end, it's
it's it's you, it's your family. And then, on a
more simplistic and less complicated. You know, love my gardens.
(44:20):
You know I love the joy of watching a great
tennis match, So I love a great performance. I mean,
I I have so much respect when I see people
who are completely dedicated to what they do and do
it extremely well. I mean I I'm asked a lot
about someone like Roger feder who's been a friend of
(44:42):
mine for so many years. And watching Roger play on
the court with so much grace and elegance and style
and talent, you know, that is to me that that's
seeing someone who is the best at what they do.
That that's joy. And if I can help with her
it standards or politics, or theater, or mental health or
(45:03):
any of the things that we've been having this wonderful
discussion about, if I can help in any way put
any kind of a spotlight on that, then that certainly
gives me joy. Your description of Roger Federer, who I
also agree, is a description of yourself. You are elegant,
You are filled with grace, You are incredibly wise and generous,
(45:26):
and I can't thank you enough for pulling up a
cheer today and having lunch with me. It means everything.
Thank you, Bruce. You've been so kind and generous to
me and I so appreciate it. Table for Two with
(45:46):
Bruce Bozzi is produced by iHeartRadio seven three seven Park
and Airmail. Our executive producers are Bruce Bozzi, Jonathan Hollis
Dressler and Nathan King. Table for Two is edited and
written by Tina Mullen and researched and written by Bridget
arsenalt Our sound engineers are Emil B. Klein, Paul Bowman
and Melissa Midcalf. Table for two is LA production team
(46:09):
is Danielle Romo and Lorraine viz. Our music supervisor is
Randall Poster. Our talent booking is by Jane Sark. Special
thanks to Amy Sugarman, Uni Cher, Kevin Yuvane, Bobby Bauer,
Alison Cantor Graber, and Jody Williams, Rita Sodi and the
team at Via Coroda in Manhattan's West Village. For more
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or
(46:33):
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Host
Bruce Bozzi
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