February 10, 2025 • 50 mins
Becoming heliotropic is something we should all hope to accomplish in our lifetimes. Dr. Harry Cohen, psychologist and author of the book Be The Sun Not The Salt stops by the podcast. He talks with Morgan about the lessons we should all have in life, that may seem easy to some, but difficult to others. His book is meant to inspire others to pursue a "sunshine" type of life that exudes kindness and authenticity. After talking with Dr. Harry Cohen about acting in kindness and becoming heliotropic, Morgan had some self-reflection about how we interact in the world. She shares her thoughts on matters of our individual choices, and the choice to be kind. State license plates gave her a thought starter that begs the question "what is my life slogan?"
Follow Dr. Harry Cohen: @bethesunnotthesalt
Get the book Be The Sun Not The Salt: www.bethesunnotthesalt.com
Follow Morgan: @webgirlmorgan
Follow Take This Personally: @takethispersonally
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
Personal life.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
With growing fueldsmen. One of the most familiar versions of
the very known Golden rule is do unto others as
you would have them do unto you. And we learned
the Golden rule growing up so so much. It's said often,
and maybe it's not anymore. Maybe it was something that
(00:38):
was very common when I had nineties baby was growing up.
But I feel like the Golden rule was something everybody knew.
And I do feel in a lot of ways, whether
that be because of where we're at with technology, with
the experiences of the world after COVID, after so many
things have drastically shifted in our society, the Golden Rule,
(00:59):
to me feels like it has kind of slipped, It's
kind of gone away. And I don't say this knowing
that everyone has forgotten this. I think a lot of
people still remember it, but I don't think it ever
hurts to be reminded of how we interact with the
world and how the basic human connection evolves around being
(01:21):
kind to other people. And so this episode is really
overarching about kindness, but it's also about so much more
than that, and understanding ourselves is human, how we interact
and see the world and I'm bringing on doctor Harry Cohen,
who is an author, a psychologist, and he's just trying
to help us see things a little bit more simpler,
(01:43):
and sometimes we need that. I think this is a
great reminder episode because sometimes life gets a little crazy
and we forget how we're interacting with ourselves and with
the world. So we're going to get into this interview.
I'm going to do a journal entry. Yeah, helped provoke
some conversations in my brain that I hope will also
(02:05):
stimulate some things for yourself, whether it be in a
therapy session or just in a journal entry for yourselves.
So for the sake of bringing more sunshine into our lives,
let's do this. I'm really excited to be joined by
(02:27):
doctor Harry Cohen. Harry, thank you for joining me today.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
My absolute pleasure.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Now you're an author, But what were you before an author?
And I have your book right here.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
So I was a shrink for many many years. I
was a shrink and then executive coach and motivational speaker.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
And what inspired you to write this book? It's called
Be the Sun Not the Salt. I imagine a lot
of life experience totally.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So somebody recently asked me or reminded me. They asked me,
why did you write the book? And I remember what
I said, and I was reminded that I I wanted
to leave my kids something when I die. This is
the compilation of my entire life's work. I think it'll
help a ton of people. When I did my TED Talk,
(03:12):
I ended my Ted Talk with leave people with an afterglow,
not an after taste. Be the sun, not the salt.
I didn't know that I was going to write that book,
but that's my attempt. At thirty one page, Okay, if
I could say something that I think the world could
(03:34):
benefit from, certainly my kids, certainly stuff I've learned, this
is it. I didn't want to write another book. I
wrote a book twenty years ago called Secrets of the
Obvious about how to live a healthy life. This is
more the distillation of everything you know.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
When I was reading this book, the thing that I
really took away from it is that I feel like
you put into words what should be basic knowledge for.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
People I know.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Not only should it be basic knowledge, I think it's
basic knowledge already that most people, when you tell them
about this.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
They go, oh, I love that they already.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
It doesn't require a lot of explanation. What I get
excited about as I think about how to explain this
to your listeners or to anyone, is I want to
say more by saying less. It's so easy and so powerful.
Just recently I heard this great line, which I'll now
say forever. It's so easy. It's easy to forget, it's
(04:39):
easy to not do. And that is the profound nature.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Of this, which is whoa.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
If you just do this stuff, your life is going
to be better. Garren Frickin teed Now, why.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Do you feel like it is easy to forget these things?
Why do you like in our day to day lives
that these lessons and a lot in here really focuses
on how to be a good person, how to let
things go, just live very honestly and genuinely to yourself.
But why do you feel like that's so difficult for people?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
The reason I can say that it's so difficult because
I watch myself and I'm an expert. I'm a wise sage.
I'm a seventy year old practitioner of equanimity. I've lived
my life and I still lose my cool, find myself
not being extra kind today's chapter is do it anyway.
You know, when you don't feel like doing something. The
(05:36):
lesson for today's do it anyway. It's a Mother Teresa quote.
It's a poem. Well, I can get lost and I
don't feel like it. Why is it so common for
us to lose it? It's the ancients. They've been writing
about this for thousands of years. To be a good person,
we have to fight against all of the forces that
(05:56):
are pulling us and tempting us and inviting us to
be less than a good person. I don't feel like
getting out of bed. I don't feel like smiling. I
don't feel like saying please and thank you. I don't
feel like doing the next right thing.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
That's human nature. That's okay.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
My gift to the world is, yes, you can do
it anyway. Do the tiniest, tiniest good deed. I'm talking
about smiling at a stranger. I'm talking about costs you nothing,
but your life will be better for it. And because
the world is built to tempt us to do stupid
and unwise things, we have to work a little bit
(06:36):
to remind yourself. Don't eat the donut. I mean, I mean, seriously,
donut I'm not picking on them. For all those people
who make a living selling donuts, I'm sorry, but they're
not good food for you.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
They're not good forward for you. But there is something
good in your soul that happens when you see this.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Is what happens.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Look, there's a whole lot of metabolism stuff that happens
when we eat sugar and fat and fried food. So
we can talk about that if you want. But I mean,
deep fried oreos are not good for you. I know
they taste good, but I'm using this as a metaphor
and literal, like, why do you want to diet of
deep fried oreos? Well, you can have them now and then,
(07:13):
can't you.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I guess, so I guess.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
So yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
I mean, I'm I keep saying I'm seventy. I want
to live till whenever, but I want to live great.
And if I eat food that's not good for me,
eventually it's going to find me. And you know, it's
not that not that complicated. If I'm a bit of
a dick sometimes, if I'm unkind or unconscious or disrespectful
(07:40):
or thoughtless, it's not good. So I don't have to
beat myself up. I can just be deliberate and conscious
and say have I done any good today?
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Yes? Good? Do some more.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
And that's what I get excited about. Imagine we could
get millions of people to understand this and practice this
a tiny bit more. They don't have to change who
they are, they don't have to change their personality, there
have to change anything they and we have to do
(08:15):
just a little bit more of what we already do,
and the world is a better place.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
And a little bit less.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Of what we already do when we're a bit of
a dick.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I mean, I do like that, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
And I'm not saying I'm not.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Nobody's perfect, including me. And I just started saying of
late to my wife, I don't know, months ago, but
I've been doing it every day. Is there anything you
need for me to do for you today? Now that's
a sentence that I can say.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Every day, and it's a very helpful sentence and you
don't even realize it.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
It's so fantastic.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I mean, it's like, how come I took me seventy
years to figure that out? Well, at least I figured
it out now. I now leave for the airport an
hour and a half before my flight. How come it
took me years to figure that out? I finally figured
it out. I'm talking about basic stuff now. I did
learn please and thank you as a kid. I got
that down. But man, am I discovering more stuff, science
(09:16):
based stuff to improve your relationships, your productivity, your life,
your happiness, your health, your longevity, your equanimity. It's all
good And the whole point of this when I get
so excited. You don't have to take a twelve week course,
you don't have to sign up for anything. You don't
even have to buy this book.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
You just have to choose to be a good person
every single day.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
And if you choose to be a good person, you
gos that mean? Oh I could tell you, but I
bet you could too. Whatever somebody would say when you
ask them, well, what do you mean, how do you
be a good person? Whatever comes out of their mouth,
you go, yeah, do more of that? We copyrighted, do
more of that? Just doing what you already do a
little bit more. I mean, well, you know when you're
(10:01):
a good person.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Yeah, do that some more? What already do? Great? You
think you're limited to be thinking?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Do it more?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
You'll you'll be happier and people around you'll be happier
and do the obnoxious, uncool things a little bit less,
like looking at your phone while someone's talking to you.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yes, that's a very big thing, especially in the last
couple of decades. Totally now, scientifically talk me through this, Yes,
like when someone chooses to be a good person versus
chooses not to, Like, scientifically, what does that look like
in somebody's brain when they can't wrap their head around
being a good person.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
So this is great question, which is wrap your head
around being a good person. Those are a bunch of words.
All you got to do is hold the door and
smile at someone. Your actions define who you are. It
defines your identity. So this good person thing is only
what you do. Just what does a good person do?
(11:03):
What do you do as a good person? And then
do that some more. What happens in your brain and
body is all kinds of good stuff. I mean, you
can see it in someone's face, you can see it
in your face.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
You're smiling as.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
I'm talking to you. That is what happens to the
body mind when you're around someone who makes you feel good.
You could measure it in the blood. There's some oxytocin
in there, there's some dopamine in there. There's all kinds
of nerve transmitters in the blood of a person with
whom you are making feel uplifted.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
And I mean literally, if you touch.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Someone's hand and hold their hand, you can measure the
impact on them. And the same as when you say
a kind word, you could literally you put them up.
If you hook them up to a functional magnetic resonance machine,
you could watch their brain change. But you don't need
to do that. Just look at somebody and smile at
her and say, can I help you? Oh, that's a
(12:02):
lovely dress you have on. You know, I love what
you did to the room.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
You can say anything as long as you mean it,
And authenticity is one of these virtuous qualities that other
human beings resonate with. It's like the natural smell of
a flower, which is fragrant, creates in people.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Ooh that's delightful.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, And there's disgusting sense as well, and that creates
a different kind of reaction, and that's what we're talking about.
Disgust and fear and anger and sadness. Those are naturally
occurring emotions, but so is awe and joy and love.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Now, when you're talking about this too, I hear you
saying it's to me and to you right. I feel
it's pretty easy to be a good person. It's easy
to make a choice. But there are people I've encountered
in my life who don't feel that that's an easy
choice for some reason, whether that be past experiences and insecurities.
For those people, how do you start to get them
(13:07):
to walk down this much more fulfilling life of goodness?
Speaker 1 (13:12):
You know, I don't know the answer to that. I
really don't in that real core question. Everybody's different. I
don't like to generalize if I can, because they don't
find it helpful. I would find the how do you
get the person in front of you to make that choice?
(13:34):
My answer to that is be that person and influence
him or her in such a way that they are
moved and motivated and inspired by your example. So they
don't even know why they're being more kind, but they're
moved and inspired by your life. I think that's the
way I mean my words. This podcast is an attempt
(13:56):
to help somebody who's listening who might be that person,
But I don't know if that person is going to
be moved to hold the door and smile and be
a little bit more kind. I really don't know a man.
If I could figure that out, I think we should
tell everybody. But as far as I can tell, it's
do it yourself. Be so magnificent that your life and
(14:21):
your example is what makes them go. You know, I
ran into that guy and I don't even know what
he said, but I wanted to be a better man.
Remember that movie Oh with Them, Jack Nicholson and Hellen Hunt.
You make me want to be a better man? Is
(14:42):
that line? I want to be a person who makes
other people want to be a better man or better woman.
I know not if my words do it. This book
is an attempt to it. Everything I put out on
our Be the Sun Not the Soul podcast, and everything
I write and everything I post on Instagram is an
attempt to do what you said, which is to nudge
(15:04):
any listener. You know, I'm going to be nicer to
my wife. You know I'm going to be nicer to myself.
You know I'm going to fill in the blank. I'm
going to eat a healthy meal today. You know, I'm
going to go for a walk with my dog. I mean,
there's so many things that if people did more of
(15:26):
those wonderful things, they would have a better life. I
want to inspire more people to do this, and man,
oh man, if you can help me do that, let's
get it into the hearts and minds and hands of everybody.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I've started to realize, especially as I've started to have
a platform with the job that i have and what
I've done, where a lot of my action and words
can be seen in so many different ways. But it's
been very important to me that I connect with human
beings on a very clothes level, which means messaging with
a lot of them. And I'm often sharing every moment
(16:05):
of who I am versus just the good. Everybody sees
every up and down flow of my life, and it's funny.
I've shared sometimes the frustrations of people writing and saying
horrible things when they have no idea who I am
because I can't fathom it in my brain. I could
never be that person to somebody else. It's really hard
(16:26):
for me to comprehend and understand. And somebody wrote me
and I will always remember this conversation and they were like, well,
I'm sure you also have thoughts and you say things
about people. I said, that's the difference. I have a thought,
but it never leaves my brain.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
I know. I know.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
So when I read nasty, critical, obnoxious, horrible, I guess trolling.
They call it social media posts. People who would comment
on someone they don't even know. I always think to myself, Oh,
that poor thing. Oh they don't know, they don't know
any better. No one ever told them, dude, you don't
(17:05):
say that. You can think it, don't say it.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Now. You know.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I've done wisdom training and teaching and speaking for the year,
so I have the benefit of knowing that before words
leave your lips, may they pass through three gates. May
they be truthful, may they be necessary, and may they
be kind. And I haven't always followed that recommendation, but
it's so damn intelligent I should. So when I say
(17:31):
something obnoxious, inappropriate, cruel in it's like, oh, but but
for the grace of God, go I I gotta do
the next right thing. Please know that people who do
stupid and foolish and hurtful and harmful things they know
not what they do.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
No one ever told them.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
They weren't socialized, they weren't parented, they weren't trained they
weren't mentored, they weren't shown.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
So they do that.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Stuff because they don't know any better. Our job is
to have compassion for them and see if we can
help the next person. Not that person, they probably ain't
gonna get it, but the next person will say. You know,
I'm not going to post that. I'm not gonna say that.
I mean, one of my greatest learnings, you know, be
(18:17):
the sun, don't be the salt. Don't be the salt.
There's one chapter out of thirties which is if you
can't be the sun, then just don't be the salt.
That is as powerful as anything in there. Refraining from
saying what you're thinking.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
That's a very very difficult skill, especially today exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
But like to your point, it's a difficult skill. So
what it's difficult to do a lot of things we
do that. A lot of things are difficult, but it
just seems.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
To be one that we kind of put in the
back burner. It's not one that we feel necessary.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
I understand. That's why we have a job to do.
I have a life purpose and mission. So to you,
let's join forces and do more good by helping more
people do more good, so that it becomes the norm,
and people help other people in a normative way.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
That's not cool. Don't do that. Oh, thank you, You're right,
I shouldn't. Okay, little correction.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
You know that when I hear people not saying please
and thank you, I oftentimes will want to say, dude,
you know you should say please.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Or thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
And I'd say nine times out of ten I don't,
but one out of ten, depending on the person, I
will lovingly remind them.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Please would be nice. Thank you would be nice.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Whether it's my grown thirty three year old kids or
a dear friend who oh I thought I said please,
No you didn't. And I don't mind reminding them, not
in a you know, obnoxious judgy way, but come on, dude,
we can be better.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
In net.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yeah, I do feel like we've gotten away from this
self awareness of understanding ourselves and how we interact in
the world. And some of that comes with just a
simple please and thank you. Some of it comes with
keeping your face bright in something that somebody wants to
see that the self awareness aspect feels like, what is
(20:18):
the biggest thing that we're missing?
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I couldn't agree with you or what you said something
so profound and people who can't see this podcast this
is listening only, they can't see your bright face. Oh seriously,
they can't see what a bright light you are. And
you said it with such deliberate intent. I'm so glad
that you said. So your face is not your own.
(20:40):
What do you mean you bring it out into the world.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
What are you giving the world? Is it that sour puss?
Or is it that delighted? What a lovely face? We
can offer that to the world.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yeah, and so do you You have the same face.
You're very happy and.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Oh but I know that deliberately.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
I know it because it's my life, my job.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
What am I gonna walk around with a sour puss for?
That would be like walking around with a smelly jacket.
It's kind of inappropriate. Dude, you should probably clean that.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
It looks like a mess. Oh you think it matters?
You know, yeah, it kind of does.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
I mean, that's the simplest the way we want to
make this so that other people can go, Oh, that's good.
I listened to that podcast. I got something from that,
would you get you know, I'm gonna watch my face more.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
What do you mean, just gonna be aware of how.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I show up in the world, good for you, that's great.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, And I feel like it's because a lot of
people wear their life on their face pretty much, and
they're showing everything that's happening to them in a day
to day world. The very common RBF if you will,
yep that, I do know a lot of people are
like that. And it's very often where I'll meet people
and I'll say, you know, I wasn't sure if you
were gonna like me because you did have a RBF.
(22:00):
And I never want to be that person. I want
somebody to think automatically, I'm interested in what they're doing.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I know, because authenticity is very heliotropic. It makes people
want to gravitate towards us. When we are real, people
like that. People like it when we're authentic. People like
it when we're vulnerable. People like it when we're grateful.
People like it when we're curious. People like it when
(22:27):
we're kind, people like it when we get shitped done,
you know what I mean, When we follow through in
our commitments. These are great qualities. These are wonderful virtues.
All virtues. Pick a virtue. What about generosity?
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Great?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
I love that we can lean into being more virtuous.
Everybody wins, mostly ourselves, but everybody wins around us when
we're just a smidgeon midgeen more thoughtful.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
You mentioned that word heliotropic, which is in your book.
Can you define that a little bit for me? Because
that was a new word for me to learn.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
It's a new word for most people, but it's what
was so exciting for me because it describes what we
are talking about. Why a plant leans towards the sun
is because of the heliotropic effect, and it turns out
that people are like that too. We are drawn to
(23:26):
the positive energy around us. Heliotropic means the positive energy
of the sun, and human beings can be positive energizers,
and we're drawn to them like the plant to the sun.
That's the heliotropic effect. When we are demonstrating our virtuous
(23:47):
qualities that your mother and grandmother and father and grandfather
and you and your brother and spouse already demonstrate, we
are drawn to those people. We like being around them.
It is like sun on our leaves makes us feel
like WHOA great. That's what the heliotropic effect is. And
(24:11):
all we got to do is do that some more,
period not be anybody else.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Just pay attention. You know.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I could do that some more. I could be on
timed some more. I could be more forgiving good. I
could be more dependable good. I could be more curious good.
You're fill in the blank there. So I mean everything
that you and your mom and your dad taught you
about how to be a good person.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
That's our life's work. Great, So do it some more.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
I really love this comparison to plants. How you've found that,
because it is it's a very We are living beings
that need sunshine, not even just mentally, but physically emotionally.
It's a whole experience. Our bodies crave the vitamin that
comes from the sun.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
That's right, we crave the vitamin that comes from the sun.
But we crave this good energy from other human beings too.
Our whole bodies light up when we're around virtuous people
like ourselves.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
So that's what it's like. Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
So I could be a great parent to my living
breathing for your four legged or two legged or plant.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
I mean, this is how we are great parents and
great friends and good company by giving that good, positive
energy to our loved ones and perfect strangers.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Very important because it's often missed. You know, you can
be a great person in your life with the people
that you know, but if you're out existing in the
world and you're also not continuing that you're not fully
really in this version of a life correct.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
And if you're let's say you're ninety percent and that
you're ninety out of one hundred exchanges with other human beings,
you're fantastic. But ten, yeah, you're less than great. Go
for ninety one. So this work isn't about perfection. It's
about you know what, I like trying to be one
percent better? What do you mean one percent? A little
(26:25):
bit kind, a little bit more curious, a little bit
more thoughtful, a little bit more inspiring, a little bit
more loving.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
A little bit more.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Effective. You know, am I being effective in this podcast?
I always worried about talking too much, so I'll stop talking.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
No, you're doing so great On that other flip side
of being a positive energizer and having the sun on
our leaves, what is this salt on the roots? I
loved that saying, like putting salt on the roots. Anytime
you're not living in that positive energy, doing salt on
the roots.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
And here's what it means. It's not salt of the earth.
The salt of the earth is another description of a
great quality human being. Salting someone's roots is a metaphor
for making somebody feel crappy.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Period.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
You can make somebody feel crappy a million different ways.
Look at your cellphone while they're talking to you, make
a sarcastic comment after they say something positive, make a
fake apology. I'm just giving examples of ways that we
can be salt on roots. Get irritated for something that
(27:44):
someone did, and let them know. I mean, I'm going
on and on, but there's so many tiny And the
reason I bring up tiny because just as being the
sun is tiny, being the salt can be tiny. You
can just cop a little bit of an aditude with people.
I travel a lot, so I'm in a customer service,
(28:05):
you know, receiving customer services a lot. You know, I'm
on airplanes or in ubers or at hotel rooms or whatever,
and I.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Can cop an attitude.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
You know, you shouldn't make me wait in line, you
shouldn't make me go through this. But whatever my attitude is,
that's garbage. I can make somebody uplifted in a split second,
or I can be a bit of a dick. This
morning in the TSA line line at the Detroit Airport,
there was a huge line on Monday morning and there
(28:35):
were two Delta agents directing people. One was particularly helpful
and the other was not. And I made a choice
of pouring on extra scoop of love to the helpful one. Hey, dude,
you were really helpful.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I really appreciate the way you handled me. Now I
was deliberate and making him feel good. I could have
just said one nasty, snarky, sarcastic thing to the other woman,
and I didn't. I don't want to meddle. I'm just
saying that I think that stuff, but I'm better net.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Well, just like you said, we're not perfect. You still
have the thoughts. It's that it never leaves your brain.
It's there, it exists, and you recognize it, but it
never comes out.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
That's right, And you know, like, well that's no fun. Yeah,
I know, that's okay. I like being a better human being.
That's my life mission. There are people who are listening
to this going I.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Don't give it. You know, this is too nice.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Sometimes you gotta rip people a new one. Yeah, you know,
I'm not that interested in that. I don't mind holding
people accountable. I'm talking about making somebody feel crappy is
not necessary. That's really important because we often do and
don't even realize that we do. You know, we get oh,
(30:03):
we get lost in stupid stuff.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
You know what's funny when you talk about you traveling
a lot and always being in these customer service situations.
I was on a plane and it was really funny.
The flight attendants came over, and you know, they always
make some funny jokes, but one of them said, you know,
every time, I really hope that everybody says hello and
has a greeting for us. And every time, I'm very
disappointed because I can never say that it has happened
(30:29):
yet where every single person has walked on and said
hello and smiled at us. And I just thought, what
a perspective that is. And I always do not because
of anything. That's just genuinely how I was raised. I
was taught to interact with people and be aware of
the world around me, and I am also well aware
that that's not how everybody was raised, but it was
(30:51):
such a perspective shift just for me sitting there and
I was like, wow, really there was people here that
just walk on with no regard that there's other humans
in front of them.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
So here's what I would say to her or him,
that's great, here's a tip. Focus of how many people
come on this airplane every day that do say good morning,
good evening, Hello, and focus on those people, not the
ones who don't, because she or he's focused on all
(31:22):
the ones who aren't. I get that, Okay, they're there,
but there how many are there that say hello?
Speaker 3 (31:29):
I said that to the.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
To the flight attendant this morning. She was really sweet
to me, and I made an extra point of saying
thank you for making my flight great. I knew that
made her feel good. Oh, I know what I'm doing
because I'm a professional, but plenty of times, I mean,
I've got three million miles on Delta, I've flown a
lot and don't say boot. And I used to never
(31:53):
help people with their luggage in the overhead. I would
always think, well, they should have, they should have, they
should be able, and you know she's needed help. I've
got that little attitude about they shouldn't. And now the
only thing that's changed is I look for opportunities to
be helpful, and I feel better. Nothing has changed other
(32:16):
than I'm a slightly better human being.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yes, that is the key word. You look for ways
to be helpful. That is something that I do not
feel exists. A lot a lot of people aren't looking
for that opportunity.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
We'll forget about them. You just do it, don't worry
about them.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Is this is us trying to educate others, right, We
want to make sure they're looking for the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
I hope anyone who's listening is well, I'm not one
of those people. Great, whoever's listening to this, which one
are you? Are you one of the people that like, yeah,
I don't really want to I don't really want to
be that helpful to anybody.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Or are you?
Speaker 1 (32:48):
The person goes, you know what, I'm going to be
even more helpful than I already am because we're one
of the other. We're one of the I mean, we're
either one.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Or the other.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
And you know, as far as that question like how
do we get other people to do this?
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Lord? If I know, if we can figure.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
It out, let's bottle it. I think it's lived, talk
about it. Use our platforms to make it easier. Here's
a way I think we could do it. Make it
so that it's not that hard. Oh that's interesting, and
make it enjoyable. Oh, that's attractive. For people to do
(33:29):
this so that the habit of being heliotropic, the habit
of being uplifting and being the sun and not being
the salt, is easier and enjoyable and attractive and obvious.
This is stuff from James Clear, you know, atomic habits.
(33:51):
Make it obvious, make it attractive, make it enjoyable, make
it easy for any habit. Let's make these heliotropic habits easy, attractive, enjoyable,
and obvious.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I love that. I do. Think that's so beneficial. And
thank you for sharing all of this. I want to
leave you as something because I feel like you will
very much love this compliment and something I hope that
you steal. One of my good friends. Still one of
my favorite compliments I've ever received to this day, she goes,
you are human sunshine, and that compliment will never leave
(34:24):
my brain.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
And what that.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Means is you are such a powerful force of goodness
that what that sunshine does, oh my god, it literally
makes life on earth.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Period.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Without it, we don't exist, so all that energy from
the sun goes into the plants and turns into fossil
fuels and food, and why we're here is because of that.
It's transmuted human sunshine. What a beautiful compliment, awesomeness. Let's
get more people as human sunshinees plural to create a movement.
(35:04):
Let's start a thing. Anybody who wants to be a
human son, let's do something for him.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
I agree, I agree, and I again, I hope you
take it, and that can be a compliment you have it.
It was one of my favorites. So doctor Harry Cohen,
thank you so much for being here with me and
talking about this and for writing your book, because small
steps create big change and that's what we're doing. So
thank you.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
My absolute pleasure.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Doctor Harry con was just on with us and we
talked all about kindness and understanding other human beings and
really interacting with the world in a very authentic and
kind way. And so many of my questions came from
(35:57):
why is this so hard for us? Now? After I
recorded this interview with doctor Harry, my dog Remmy and
I went on a walk and I was thinking about
kindness and why it's so difficult for some people to
not act in kindness. And some of those reasons I
came up with were past experiences, trauma, unkind people they've
(36:20):
encountered before, role models who acted in a way that
weren't kind. And I thought about all of these things,
and it's really easy when you've had some horrible life
experiences or interacted with very unkind and just mean people
in the world, it's very natural for you to want
to continue in that same direction of these people that
(36:43):
you've encountered before. But then I was brought back to
an interview actually on this podcast, episode two, with doctor
Alexandra Solomon, and we were speaking about some of my
past experiences. I was bullied in high school, I was
in an abusive relationship in my early twenties. And as
I'm talking to her about this, and I just say,
(37:05):
very passively, well, because of those experiences, now i'm a
better person and I've learned and grown from those and
she looked at me very kindly, very soft spoken, and
just said, you didn't have to choose to be kind
after those experiences. And I had never really thought about
it in that capacity. I didn't have to choose after
(37:27):
girls bullied me and said incredibly unkind things to me
and made me feel so horrible that I was suicidal
or being in a relationship with a man who physically
and emotionally abused me. After both of those experiences, I
didn't have to choose to be kind to other people
(37:48):
because of that. As a result of that, actually a
lot of people would have done the opposite. They would
have chosen to continue that pattern. And when she said
that to me, it really gave me a very big
perspective on my choices as a human being. We all
get to make our choices, and we all make mistakes
because we are human. But those choices are ours to make,
(38:13):
just as it is my choice to have chosen the
path of positivity and understanding that I don't want anybody
to ever feel the way that I felt in either
of those scenarios, and I didn't want to continue those
patterns of behavior. I chose a different path, just as
somebody else who might have been in my position chose
(38:34):
the path that was a little less difficult, and it
was easier to just continue the path of being me
to continue the pattern of abuse. Our choices are what
makes us human. They're what makes us who we are
as people, but those choices have consequences. So much of
what I wanted to talk to doctor Harry Cohen about
is why people choose to be kind or choose not
(38:57):
to be kind, And maybe in our lifetime, I'm never
going to have the actual answer of why some people
choose a certain path versus some others don't, regardless of
our past experiences. But I know that we as people
have the power to make the right choices. We also
have the power to make the wrong choices, and that's
(39:18):
what this podcast is for. This episode is about having
the strength to make the right choice. Now, I'm human.
Just because I made the right choice in both of
those scenarios and took the harder path doesn't mean I
haven't made the wrong ones and I wasn't human. You
should see me driving on a highway. I have horrible
road rage. I hate when people are inconsiderate of others
(39:39):
and it bothers me to a t. And I've had
to really enter look at myself and say why am
I getting so upset at these people? And take a
step back and understand that other people are experiencing different
life experiences and I have to allow them to also
be human. And that's where I struggle because I'm not
(39:59):
p perfect. I have problems every day. I'm not somebody
who's sitting here and going to say just because I
did it right these few times doesn't mean I have
done it right every single time. But one thing that
I do always boil down to is that I never
want someone to encounter and experience with me and leave
warse off for it. That's something that I've known to
(40:20):
my core from who I was born to be as
a human being, when I was little, and how I
interacted with the world, and as I grew up and
I had these horrible experiences, something that always mattered to
me is that I never wanted other people to walk
away from an experience with me, whether that be a friendship,
a relationship, and encounter just for five minutes that it
(40:43):
was bad that they didn't want to be around me
for the simple fact that I wasn't a good human.
And that's why I say we all get to make choices,
and we all have a say in how we live
our lives. These are my choices, just as you're going
to have yours. And there are some things that I
know for certain. While I am horrible with road rage,
(41:05):
and it's an active thing that I'm working on. You're
never going to see me in a comment section on
somebody's posts, making comments that I can't take back, or
simply making a rude opinion for the sake of a
like You're not going to see me out into the
world pushing somebody down in hopes that I'm lifted back up.
(41:25):
My flaws are different than other people's. Those are flaws
for some people. Those are flaws for a lot of
unfortunately our society and the way that social media works.
But it's been an active choice of mine not to
be part of that, just as for some people they
can actively choose not to have road rage, and they
have a lot of patients in the roads that they
drive on. And you know, while I was thinking about kindness,
(41:49):
especially in regards to this interview with doctor Harry, and
I was on this walk with Remy. It was a
whole walk. I'm telling you, guys, this is the way
that my brain works and the way that I interact
with the world, and a lot of self awareness that
I have is just choosing to be on these walks
and having these thoughts in my brain versus shutting everything
down or shutting everything out. While I was thinking about kindness,
(42:11):
I was walking past a bunch of different cars in
the neighborhood, and there was a whole bunch of different licenses.
Because I live in Nashville, We're kind of a melting
pot and all kinds of people move here. And I
was seeing all these different state license plates, and all
of them had different mottos, you know. I remember seeing Virginia.
That was the first one I saw. It was Virginia's
for Lovers. And then I kind of went down a
rabbit hole of looking up a bunch of different state
(42:33):
slogans to see what either they have on their license
plate or what they stand for. And here's just a
few of them. So New Hampshire, Live Free or Die, Indiana,
the Crossroads of America, Alaska, North to the Future, Oklahoma,
hard work conquers all things, New York Excelsior, Kansas to
the stars through adversity. Oregon, she flies with her own wings.
(42:56):
Personal favorite of mine Texas is Friendship. New Mexico it
grows as it goes, California, Eureka, which apparently means I
have found it. And Wisconsin Forward. Now these are just
a few of them, and if any of these are changed,
I have no idea. This is just what Google says,
but it had me then processing what is my slogan?
(43:19):
I look at all these state license plates, and this
is what these states hope to show when people visit
their state. This is what they hope our whole country
in the world sees them as when they look at
Kansas or Wisconsin or New Hampshire. These are their slogans.
This is what they want to live by. This is
what they want their people and their state to live by.
So what is your slogan? What do you stand for?
(43:41):
What do you hope that every time somebody encounters you
in the world, What do you hope they all come
away with. Your hope is that it's all the same thing, right.
You hope that when you interact with the world, you
have a consistency to you. You hope that when people
to you, it's always going to be a similar experience
(44:05):
because you, as a person would be consistent. That's the goal.
Now I'm not saying that's easy. Now, I'm not saying
we're all at that place in our lives, but that
is the goal. So I would imagine if we all
came up with slogans or maybe a mantra for a
way that you choose to live your life, the way
(44:26):
that you believe you should be interacting with the world.
I think it would help all of us, not only ourselves,
but the way that we exist within the world. You know,
for me, as I was thinking about these slogans, something
that I've always really focused on, especially since that situation
in high school for me being bullied and understanding that
(44:49):
people do not have to interact with the world in
the same way as I do, but that I had
an influence that I could change the way people interact
with the world because of how I choose to interact
with the world. So from that point forward, I really
started to narrow down and take it from someone who's
been in years of therapy, this was not easy. Who
(45:11):
I am today and what I have become was never easy.
It took a lot of pain, It took a lot
of hard conversations and a lot of deep in our
work to find who I am as a human being.
So when I say, for me, these are the things
that I try to focus on, These are the things
that I hope, maybe someday I can come up with
a slogan to represent These are years and years of
(45:33):
work put into who I am as a human being.
Something that I want to do is always focus on authenticity,
being genuine, being compassionate, being strong and very strong human
being physically and emotionally, Being loyal to the people in
my circle, being loyal to the people that I encounter,
(45:53):
and newly because of what you heard, a compliment from
a friend was sunshine. These are all things that I
hope to encompass when I interact with the world, not
just the people in my circle, not just the people
I say every single day, whether they be coworkers or strangers.
This is how I choose as a human being that
I want to interact with the world. Now, what is
(46:15):
that slogan? What encompasses all of those things? I have
no idea, but I thought it was a cool exercise
for us to start to understand ourselves better and how
we want to believe the world exists around us, how
we want to walk out each day out of our
front doors and say this is who I'm going to
(46:35):
be every single day. Because consistency does matter. Consistency matters
not just in our own lives, but in the world
around us, and I think if we can all come
up with these slogans where we understand ourselves and the
things that we want for ourselves and the things that
we want out of this life better, then it makes
(46:57):
interacting with the world with strain in relationships easier. It
helps us know what we always want. It's no different
than maybeing a single person and having to understand what
I want from a partner, somebody who I want to
spend my entire life with. You know, we always make
these pros and con lists or write down characteristics of
(47:18):
a future partner. Why don't we do that for ourselves.
Why don't we understand who we are and what we
want for ourselves better? I think that allows us to
do what doctor Harry Cohen talks about in this interview
and in his book, it's how we can be better
people in the world, Because when we don't understand how
we're supposed to interact with the world, how the heck
(47:42):
are we gonna choose to be a better person every
single day with the people around us that we're interacting with.
Strangers are not so. Perhaps after this episode sit for
five minutes, it doesn't have to be for very long
and try and come up with your slogan. I'm going
to I know what it should encompass, but what do
(48:02):
I actually want it to say? Who is Morgan in
the world of a slogan? If I had to label
myself as I'm walking out into the world, what do
I hope people encounter every time that they have an
experience with me? So the slogan exercise is something fun.
It's something that I feel like can be a great
journal entry for anyone. As I'm sitting here with my
(48:25):
journal that I wrote in after this interview, this is
kind of a journal entry, if you will, after doctor
Harry Cohen, and I think it's just an exercise that
might be beneficial. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's so silly
and so stupid, and maybe it's how I interact with
the world and the way that I see things. And
I thought, hmmm, license plates, slogans, how does that change?
(48:47):
Just as people? Am I a little bit crazy? Sure? Absolutely,
a little bit weird also, yes, absolutely, But I also
think there's a benefit to it. It's no different than
if you recall back in an episode I did with
Jared Houston and we were talking about those venn diagrams
and how you find your center. This is a similar concept,
but this might be able to give you some concrete words,
(49:11):
a concrete basis to choose how you interact with the world,
Because as much as we love to forget it, we
do have an impact. Every single person in this world
has an impact. They are impacting the world around them,
the communities around them, every single day. But how do
you do that with more strength, with more authenticity that
(49:37):
you just radiate kindness, and I believe that so much
of that starts with understanding ourselves that much better. So
take out your journals, your netbooks, your little notes app
and your phone, whatever it may be, and come up
with your slogan. Let me know what yours is. I
love seeing them, and you know, I might have to
(49:58):
steal a combination of Kansas in Organs because I really
loved both of those. I'm gonna be sitting here for
a while coming up with my slogan, my life motto,
my mantra, and hopefully you're able to come up with
one too, And maybe, just maybe, even if there's fifteen
of us that decide to do this, that means there's
fifteen more people in the world who are choosing to
(50:20):
interact in the world with more kindness.
Personal life.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
With growing fueldsmen. One of the most familiar versions of
the very known Golden rule is do unto others as
you would have them do unto you. And we learned
the Golden rule growing up so so much. It's said often,
and maybe it's not anymore. Maybe it was something that
(00:38):
was very common when I had nineties baby was growing up.
But I feel like the Golden rule was something everybody knew.
And I do feel in a lot of ways, whether
that be because of where we're at with technology, with
the experiences of the world after COVID, after so many
things have drastically shifted in our society, the Golden Rule,
(00:59):
to me feels like it has kind of slipped, It's
kind of gone away. And I don't say this knowing
that everyone has forgotten this. I think a lot of
people still remember it, but I don't think it ever
hurts to be reminded of how we interact with the
world and how the basic human connection evolves around being
(01:21):
kind to other people. And so this episode is really
overarching about kindness, but it's also about so much more
than that, and understanding ourselves is human, how we interact
and see the world and I'm bringing on doctor Harry Cohen,
who is an author, a psychologist, and he's just trying
to help us see things a little bit more simpler,
(01:43):
and sometimes we need that. I think this is a
great reminder episode because sometimes life gets a little crazy
and we forget how we're interacting with ourselves and with
the world. So we're going to get into this interview.
I'm going to do a journal entry. Yeah, helped provoke
some conversations in my brain that I hope will also
(02:05):
stimulate some things for yourself, whether it be in a
therapy session or just in a journal entry for yourselves.
So for the sake of bringing more sunshine into our lives,
let's do this. I'm really excited to be joined by
(02:27):
doctor Harry Cohen. Harry, thank you for joining me today.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
My absolute pleasure.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Now you're an author, But what were you before an author?
And I have your book right here.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
So I was a shrink for many many years. I
was a shrink and then executive coach and motivational speaker.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
And what inspired you to write this book? It's called
Be the Sun Not the Salt. I imagine a lot
of life experience totally.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So somebody recently asked me or reminded me. They asked me,
why did you write the book? And I remember what
I said, and I was reminded that I I wanted
to leave my kids something when I die. This is
the compilation of my entire life's work. I think it'll
help a ton of people. When I did my TED Talk,
(03:12):
I ended my Ted Talk with leave people with an afterglow,
not an after taste. Be the sun, not the salt.
I didn't know that I was going to write that book,
but that's my attempt. At thirty one page, Okay, if
I could say something that I think the world could
(03:34):
benefit from, certainly my kids, certainly stuff I've learned, this
is it. I didn't want to write another book. I
wrote a book twenty years ago called Secrets of the
Obvious about how to live a healthy life. This is
more the distillation of everything you know.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
When I was reading this book, the thing that I
really took away from it is that I feel like
you put into words what should be basic knowledge for.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
People I know.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Not only should it be basic knowledge, I think it's
basic knowledge already that most people, when you tell them
about this.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
They go, oh, I love that they already.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
It doesn't require a lot of explanation. What I get
excited about as I think about how to explain this
to your listeners or to anyone, is I want to
say more by saying less. It's so easy and so powerful.
Just recently I heard this great line, which I'll now
say forever. It's so easy. It's easy to forget, it's
(04:39):
easy to not do. And that is the profound nature.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Of this, which is whoa.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
If you just do this stuff, your life is going
to be better. Garren Frickin teed Now, why.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Do you feel like it is easy to forget these things?
Why do you like in our day to day lives
that these lessons and a lot in here really focuses
on how to be a good person, how to let
things go, just live very honestly and genuinely to yourself.
But why do you feel like that's so difficult for people?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
The reason I can say that it's so difficult because
I watch myself and I'm an expert. I'm a wise sage.
I'm a seventy year old practitioner of equanimity. I've lived
my life and I still lose my cool, find myself
not being extra kind today's chapter is do it anyway.
You know, when you don't feel like doing something. The
(05:36):
lesson for today's do it anyway. It's a Mother Teresa quote.
It's a poem. Well, I can get lost and I
don't feel like it. Why is it so common for
us to lose it? It's the ancients. They've been writing
about this for thousands of years. To be a good person,
we have to fight against all of the forces that
(05:56):
are pulling us and tempting us and inviting us to
be less than a good person. I don't feel like
getting out of bed. I don't feel like smiling. I
don't feel like saying please and thank you. I don't
feel like doing the next right thing.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
That's human nature. That's okay.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
My gift to the world is, yes, you can do
it anyway. Do the tiniest, tiniest good deed. I'm talking
about smiling at a stranger. I'm talking about costs you nothing,
but your life will be better for it. And because
the world is built to tempt us to do stupid
and unwise things, we have to work a little bit
(06:36):
to remind yourself. Don't eat the donut. I mean, I mean, seriously,
donut I'm not picking on them. For all those people
who make a living selling donuts, I'm sorry, but they're
not good food for you.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
They're not good forward for you. But there is something
good in your soul that happens when you see this.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Is what happens.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Look, there's a whole lot of metabolism stuff that happens
when we eat sugar and fat and fried food. So
we can talk about that if you want. But I mean,
deep fried oreos are not good for you. I know
they taste good, but I'm using this as a metaphor
and literal, like, why do you want to diet of
deep fried oreos? Well, you can have them now and then,
(07:13):
can't you.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I guess, so I guess.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
So yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
I mean, I'm I keep saying I'm seventy. I want
to live till whenever, but I want to live great.
And if I eat food that's not good for me,
eventually it's going to find me. And you know, it's
not that not that complicated. If I'm a bit of
a dick sometimes, if I'm unkind or unconscious or disrespectful
(07:40):
or thoughtless, it's not good. So I don't have to
beat myself up. I can just be deliberate and conscious
and say have I done any good today?
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Yes? Good? Do some more.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
And that's what I get excited about. Imagine we could
get millions of people to understand this and practice this
a tiny bit more. They don't have to change who
they are, they don't have to change their personality, there
have to change anything they and we have to do
(08:15):
just a little bit more of what we already do,
and the world is a better place.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
And a little bit less.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
Of what we already do when we're a bit of
a dick.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I mean, I do like that, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
And I'm not saying I'm not.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Nobody's perfect, including me. And I just started saying of
late to my wife, I don't know, months ago, but
I've been doing it every day. Is there anything you
need for me to do for you today? Now that's
a sentence that I can say.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Every day, and it's a very helpful sentence and you
don't even realize it.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
It's so fantastic.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I mean, it's like, how come I took me seventy
years to figure that out? Well, at least I figured
it out now. I now leave for the airport an
hour and a half before my flight. How come it
took me years to figure that out? I finally figured
it out. I'm talking about basic stuff now. I did
learn please and thank you as a kid. I got
that down. But man, am I discovering more stuff, science
(09:16):
based stuff to improve your relationships, your productivity, your life,
your happiness, your health, your longevity, your equanimity. It's all
good And the whole point of this when I get
so excited. You don't have to take a twelve week course,
you don't have to sign up for anything. You don't
even have to buy this book.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
You just have to choose to be a good person
every single day.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
And if you choose to be a good person, you
gos that mean? Oh I could tell you, but I
bet you could too. Whatever somebody would say when you
ask them, well, what do you mean, how do you
be a good person? Whatever comes out of their mouth,
you go, yeah, do more of that? We copyrighted, do
more of that? Just doing what you already do a
little bit more. I mean, well, you know when you're
(10:01):
a good person.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Yeah, do that some more? What already do? Great? You
think you're limited to be thinking?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Do it more?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
You'll you'll be happier and people around you'll be happier
and do the obnoxious, uncool things a little bit less,
like looking at your phone while someone's talking to you.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yes, that's a very big thing, especially in the last
couple of decades. Totally now, scientifically talk me through this, Yes,
like when someone chooses to be a good person versus
chooses not to, Like, scientifically, what does that look like
in somebody's brain when they can't wrap their head around
being a good person.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
So this is great question, which is wrap your head
around being a good person. Those are a bunch of words.
All you got to do is hold the door and
smile at someone. Your actions define who you are. It
defines your identity. So this good person thing is only
what you do. Just what does a good person do?
(11:03):
What do you do as a good person? And then
do that some more. What happens in your brain and
body is all kinds of good stuff. I mean, you
can see it in someone's face, you can see it
in your face.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
You're smiling as.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
I'm talking to you. That is what happens to the
body mind when you're around someone who makes you feel good.
You could measure it in the blood. There's some oxytocin
in there, there's some dopamine in there. There's all kinds
of nerve transmitters in the blood of a person with
whom you are making feel uplifted.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
And I mean literally, if you touch.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Someone's hand and hold their hand, you can measure the
impact on them. And the same as when you say
a kind word, you could literally you put them up.
If you hook them up to a functional magnetic resonance machine,
you could watch their brain change. But you don't need
to do that. Just look at somebody and smile at
her and say, can I help you? Oh, that's a
(12:02):
lovely dress you have on. You know, I love what
you did to the room.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
You can say anything as long as you mean it,
And authenticity is one of these virtuous qualities that other
human beings resonate with. It's like the natural smell of
a flower, which is fragrant, creates in people.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Ooh that's delightful.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, And there's disgusting sense as well, and that creates
a different kind of reaction, and that's what we're talking about.
Disgust and fear and anger and sadness. Those are naturally
occurring emotions, but so is awe and joy and love.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Now, when you're talking about this too, I hear you
saying it's to me and to you right. I feel
it's pretty easy to be a good person. It's easy
to make a choice. But there are people I've encountered
in my life who don't feel that that's an easy
choice for some reason, whether that be past experiences and insecurities.
For those people, how do you start to get them
(13:07):
to walk down this much more fulfilling life of goodness?
Speaker 1 (13:12):
You know, I don't know the answer to that. I
really don't in that real core question. Everybody's different. I
don't like to generalize if I can, because they don't
find it helpful. I would find the how do you
get the person in front of you to make that choice?
(13:34):
My answer to that is be that person and influence
him or her in such a way that they are
moved and motivated and inspired by your example. So they
don't even know why they're being more kind, but they're
moved and inspired by your life. I think that's the
way I mean my words. This podcast is an attempt
(13:56):
to help somebody who's listening who might be that person,
But I don't know if that person is going to
be moved to hold the door and smile and be
a little bit more kind. I really don't know a man.
If I could figure that out, I think we should
tell everybody. But as far as I can tell, it's
do it yourself. Be so magnificent that your life and
(14:21):
your example is what makes them go. You know, I
ran into that guy and I don't even know what
he said, but I wanted to be a better man.
Remember that movie Oh with Them, Jack Nicholson and Hellen Hunt.
You make me want to be a better man? Is
(14:42):
that line? I want to be a person who makes
other people want to be a better man or better woman.
I know not if my words do it. This book
is an attempt to it. Everything I put out on
our Be the Sun Not the Soul podcast, and everything
I write and everything I post on Instagram is an
attempt to do what you said, which is to nudge
(15:04):
any listener. You know, I'm going to be nicer to
my wife. You know I'm going to be nicer to myself.
You know I'm going to fill in the blank. I'm
going to eat a healthy meal today. You know, I'm
going to go for a walk with my dog. I mean,
there's so many things that if people did more of
(15:26):
those wonderful things, they would have a better life. I
want to inspire more people to do this, and man,
oh man, if you can help me do that, let's
get it into the hearts and minds and hands of everybody.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I've started to realize, especially as I've started to have
a platform with the job that i have and what
I've done, where a lot of my action and words
can be seen in so many different ways. But it's
been very important to me that I connect with human
beings on a very clothes level, which means messaging with
a lot of them. And I'm often sharing every moment
(16:05):
of who I am versus just the good. Everybody sees
every up and down flow of my life, and it's funny.
I've shared sometimes the frustrations of people writing and saying
horrible things when they have no idea who I am
because I can't fathom it in my brain. I could
never be that person to somebody else. It's really hard
(16:26):
for me to comprehend and understand. And somebody wrote me
and I will always remember this conversation and they were like, well,
I'm sure you also have thoughts and you say things
about people. I said, that's the difference. I have a thought,
but it never leaves my brain.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
I know. I know.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
So when I read nasty, critical, obnoxious, horrible, I guess trolling.
They call it social media posts. People who would comment
on someone they don't even know. I always think to myself, Oh,
that poor thing. Oh they don't know, they don't know
any better. No one ever told them, dude, you don't
(17:05):
say that. You can think it, don't say it.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
Now. You know.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I've done wisdom training and teaching and speaking for the year,
so I have the benefit of knowing that before words
leave your lips, may they pass through three gates. May
they be truthful, may they be necessary, and may they
be kind. And I haven't always followed that recommendation, but
it's so damn intelligent I should. So when I say
(17:31):
something obnoxious, inappropriate, cruel in it's like, oh, but but
for the grace of God, go I I gotta do
the next right thing. Please know that people who do
stupid and foolish and hurtful and harmful things they know
not what they do.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
No one ever told them.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
They weren't socialized, they weren't parented, they weren't trained they
weren't mentored, they weren't shown.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
So they do that.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Stuff because they don't know any better. Our job is
to have compassion for them and see if we can
help the next person. Not that person, they probably ain't
gonna get it, but the next person will say. You know,
I'm not going to post that. I'm not gonna say that.
I mean, one of my greatest learnings, you know, be
(18:17):
the sun, don't be the salt. Don't be the salt.
There's one chapter out of thirties which is if you
can't be the sun, then just don't be the salt.
That is as powerful as anything in there. Refraining from
saying what you're thinking.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
That's a very very difficult skill, especially today exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
But like to your point, it's a difficult skill. So
what it's difficult to do a lot of things we
do that. A lot of things are difficult, but it
just seems.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
To be one that we kind of put in the
back burner. It's not one that we feel necessary.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
I understand. That's why we have a job to do.
I have a life purpose and mission. So to you,
let's join forces and do more good by helping more
people do more good, so that it becomes the norm,
and people help other people in a normative way.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
That's not cool. Don't do that. Oh, thank you, You're right,
I shouldn't. Okay, little correction.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
You know that when I hear people not saying please
and thank you, I oftentimes will want to say, dude,
you know you should say please.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
Or thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
And I'd say nine times out of ten I don't,
but one out of ten, depending on the person, I
will lovingly remind them.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Please would be nice. Thank you would be nice.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Whether it's my grown thirty three year old kids or
a dear friend who oh I thought I said please,
No you didn't. And I don't mind reminding them, not
in a you know, obnoxious judgy way, but come on, dude,
we can be better.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
In net.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yeah, I do feel like we've gotten away from this
self awareness of understanding ourselves and how we interact in
the world. And some of that comes with just a
simple please and thank you. Some of it comes with
keeping your face bright in something that somebody wants to
see that the self awareness aspect feels like, what is
(20:18):
the biggest thing that we're missing?
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I couldn't agree with you or what you said something
so profound and people who can't see this podcast this
is listening only, they can't see your bright face. Oh seriously,
they can't see what a bright light you are. And
you said it with such deliberate intent. I'm so glad
that you said. So your face is not your own.
(20:40):
What do you mean you bring it out into the world.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
What are you giving the world? Is it that sour puss?
Or is it that delighted? What a lovely face? We
can offer that to the world.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yeah, and so do you You have the same face.
You're very happy and.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Oh but I know that deliberately.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
I know it because it's my life, my job.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
What am I gonna walk around with a sour puss for?
That would be like walking around with a smelly jacket.
It's kind of inappropriate. Dude, you should probably clean that.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
It looks like a mess. Oh you think it matters?
You know, yeah, it kind of does.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
I mean, that's the simplest the way we want to
make this so that other people can go, Oh, that's good.
I listened to that podcast. I got something from that,
would you get you know, I'm gonna watch my face more.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
What do you mean, just gonna be aware of how.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I show up in the world, good for you, that's great.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, And I feel like it's because a lot of
people wear their life on their face pretty much, and
they're showing everything that's happening to them in a day
to day world. The very common RBF if you will,
yep that, I do know a lot of people are
like that. And it's very often where I'll meet people
and I'll say, you know, I wasn't sure if you
were gonna like me because you did have a RBF.
(22:00):
And I never want to be that person. I want
somebody to think automatically, I'm interested in what they're doing.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I know, because authenticity is very heliotropic. It makes people
want to gravitate towards us. When we are real, people
like that. People like it when we're authentic. People like
it when we're vulnerable. People like it when we're grateful.
People like it when we're curious. People like it when
(22:27):
we're kind, people like it when we get shitped done,
you know what I mean, When we follow through in
our commitments. These are great qualities. These are wonderful virtues.
All virtues. Pick a virtue. What about generosity?
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Great?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
I love that we can lean into being more virtuous.
Everybody wins, mostly ourselves, but everybody wins around us when
we're just a smidgeon midgeen more thoughtful.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
You mentioned that word heliotropic, which is in your book.
Can you define that a little bit for me? Because
that was a new word for me to learn.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
It's a new word for most people, but it's what
was so exciting for me because it describes what we
are talking about. Why a plant leans towards the sun
is because of the heliotropic effect, and it turns out
that people are like that too. We are drawn to
(23:26):
the positive energy around us. Heliotropic means the positive energy
of the sun, and human beings can be positive energizers,
and we're drawn to them like the plant to the sun.
That's the heliotropic effect. When we are demonstrating our virtuous
(23:47):
qualities that your mother and grandmother and father and grandfather
and you and your brother and spouse already demonstrate, we
are drawn to those people. We like being around them.
It is like sun on our leaves makes us feel
like WHOA great. That's what the heliotropic effect is. And
(24:11):
all we got to do is do that some more,
period not be anybody else.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Just pay attention. You know.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I could do that some more. I could be on
timed some more. I could be more forgiving good. I
could be more dependable good. I could be more curious good.
You're fill in the blank there. So I mean everything
that you and your mom and your dad taught you
about how to be a good person.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
That's our life's work. Great, So do it some more.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
I really love this comparison to plants. How you've found that,
because it is it's a very We are living beings
that need sunshine, not even just mentally, but physically emotionally.
It's a whole experience. Our bodies crave the vitamin that
comes from the sun.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
That's right, we crave the vitamin that comes from the sun.
But we crave this good energy from other human beings too.
Our whole bodies light up when we're around virtuous people
like ourselves.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
So that's what it's like. Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
So I could be a great parent to my living
breathing for your four legged or two legged or plant.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
I mean, this is how we are great parents and
great friends and good company by giving that good, positive
energy to our loved ones and perfect strangers.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Very important because it's often missed. You know, you can
be a great person in your life with the people
that you know, but if you're out existing in the
world and you're also not continuing that you're not fully
really in this version of a life correct.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
And if you're let's say you're ninety percent and that
you're ninety out of one hundred exchanges with other human beings,
you're fantastic. But ten, yeah, you're less than great. Go
for ninety one. So this work isn't about perfection. It's
about you know what, I like trying to be one
percent better? What do you mean one percent? A little
(26:25):
bit kind, a little bit more curious, a little bit
more thoughtful, a little bit more inspiring, a little bit
more loving.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
A little bit more.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Effective. You know, am I being effective in this podcast?
I always worried about talking too much, so I'll stop talking.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
No, you're doing so great On that other flip side
of being a positive energizer and having the sun on
our leaves, what is this salt on the roots? I
loved that saying, like putting salt on the roots. Anytime
you're not living in that positive energy, doing salt on
the roots.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
And here's what it means. It's not salt of the earth.
The salt of the earth is another description of a
great quality human being. Salting someone's roots is a metaphor
for making somebody feel crappy.
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Period.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
You can make somebody feel crappy a million different ways.
Look at your cellphone while they're talking to you, make
a sarcastic comment after they say something positive, make a
fake apology. I'm just giving examples of ways that we
can be salt on roots. Get irritated for something that
(27:44):
someone did, and let them know. I mean, I'm going
on and on, but there's so many tiny And the
reason I bring up tiny because just as being the
sun is tiny, being the salt can be tiny. You
can just cop a little bit of an aditude with people.
I travel a lot, so I'm in a customer service,
(28:05):
you know, receiving customer services a lot. You know, I'm
on airplanes or in ubers or at hotel rooms or whatever,
and I.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Can cop an attitude.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
You know, you shouldn't make me wait in line, you
shouldn't make me go through this. But whatever my attitude is,
that's garbage. I can make somebody uplifted in a split second,
or I can be a bit of a dick. This
morning in the TSA line line at the Detroit Airport,
there was a huge line on Monday morning and there
(28:35):
were two Delta agents directing people. One was particularly helpful
and the other was not. And I made a choice
of pouring on extra scoop of love to the helpful one. Hey, dude,
you were really helpful.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I really appreciate the way you handled me. Now I
was deliberate and making him feel good. I could have
just said one nasty, snarky, sarcastic thing to the other woman,
and I didn't. I don't want to meddle. I'm just
saying that I think that stuff, but I'm better net.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Well, just like you said, we're not perfect. You still
have the thoughts. It's that it never leaves your brain.
It's there, it exists, and you recognize it, but it
never comes out.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
That's right, And you know, like, well that's no fun. Yeah,
I know, that's okay. I like being a better human being.
That's my life mission. There are people who are listening
to this going I.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
Don't give it. You know, this is too nice.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Sometimes you gotta rip people a new one. Yeah, you know,
I'm not that interested in that. I don't mind holding
people accountable. I'm talking about making somebody feel crappy is
not necessary. That's really important because we often do and
don't even realize that we do. You know, we get oh,
(30:03):
we get lost in stupid stuff.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
You know what's funny when you talk about you traveling
a lot and always being in these customer service situations.
I was on a plane and it was really funny.
The flight attendants came over, and you know, they always
make some funny jokes, but one of them said, you know,
every time, I really hope that everybody says hello and
has a greeting for us. And every time, I'm very
disappointed because I can never say that it has happened
(30:29):
yet where every single person has walked on and said
hello and smiled at us. And I just thought, what
a perspective that is. And I always do not because
of anything. That's just genuinely how I was raised. I
was taught to interact with people and be aware of
the world around me, and I am also well aware
that that's not how everybody was raised, but it was
(30:51):
such a perspective shift just for me sitting there and
I was like, wow, really there was people here that
just walk on with no regard that there's other humans
in front of them.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
So here's what I would say to her or him,
that's great, here's a tip. Focus of how many people
come on this airplane every day that do say good morning,
good evening, Hello, and focus on those people, not the
ones who don't, because she or he's focused on all
(31:22):
the ones who aren't. I get that, Okay, they're there,
but there how many are there that say hello?
Speaker 3 (31:29):
I said that to the.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
To the flight attendant this morning. She was really sweet
to me, and I made an extra point of saying
thank you for making my flight great. I knew that
made her feel good. Oh, I know what I'm doing
because I'm a professional, but plenty of times, I mean,
I've got three million miles on Delta, I've flown a
lot and don't say boot. And I used to never
(31:53):
help people with their luggage in the overhead. I would
always think, well, they should have, they should have, they
should be able, and you know she's needed help. I've
got that little attitude about they shouldn't. And now the
only thing that's changed is I look for opportunities to
be helpful, and I feel better. Nothing has changed other
(32:16):
than I'm a slightly better human being.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yes, that is the key word. You look for ways
to be helpful. That is something that I do not
feel exists. A lot a lot of people aren't looking
for that opportunity.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
We'll forget about them. You just do it, don't worry
about them.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Is this is us trying to educate others, right, We
want to make sure they're looking for the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
I hope anyone who's listening is well, I'm not one
of those people. Great, whoever's listening to this, which one
are you? Are you one of the people that like, yeah,
I don't really want to I don't really want to
be that helpful to anybody.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Or are you?
Speaker 1 (32:48):
The person goes, you know what, I'm going to be
even more helpful than I already am because we're one
of the other. We're one of the I mean, we're
either one.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Or the other.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
And you know, as far as that question like how
do we get other people to do this?
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Lord? If I know, if we can figure.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
It out, let's bottle it. I think it's lived, talk
about it. Use our platforms to make it easier. Here's
a way I think we could do it. Make it
so that it's not that hard. Oh that's interesting, and
make it enjoyable. Oh, that's attractive. For people to do
(33:29):
this so that the habit of being heliotropic, the habit
of being uplifting and being the sun and not being
the salt, is easier and enjoyable and attractive and obvious.
This is stuff from James Clear, you know, atomic habits.
(33:51):
Make it obvious, make it attractive, make it enjoyable, make
it easy for any habit. Let's make these heliotropic habits easy, attractive, enjoyable,
and obvious.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I love that. I do. Think that's so beneficial. And
thank you for sharing all of this. I want to
leave you as something because I feel like you will
very much love this compliment and something I hope that
you steal. One of my good friends. Still one of
my favorite compliments I've ever received to this day, she goes,
you are human sunshine, and that compliment will never leave
(34:24):
my brain.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
And what that.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Means is you are such a powerful force of goodness
that what that sunshine does, oh my god, it literally
makes life on earth.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Period.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Without it, we don't exist, so all that energy from
the sun goes into the plants and turns into fossil
fuels and food, and why we're here is because of that.
It's transmuted human sunshine. What a beautiful compliment, awesomeness. Let's
get more people as human sunshinees plural to create a movement.
(35:04):
Let's start a thing. Anybody who wants to be a
human son, let's do something for him.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
I agree, I agree, and I again, I hope you
take it, and that can be a compliment you have it.
It was one of my favorites. So doctor Harry Cohen,
thank you so much for being here with me and
talking about this and for writing your book, because small
steps create big change and that's what we're doing. So
thank you.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
My absolute pleasure.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Doctor Harry con was just on with us and we
talked all about kindness and understanding other human beings and
really interacting with the world in a very authentic and
kind way. And so many of my questions came from
(35:57):
why is this so hard for us? Now? After I
recorded this interview with doctor Harry, my dog Remmy and
I went on a walk and I was thinking about
kindness and why it's so difficult for some people to
not act in kindness. And some of those reasons I
came up with were past experiences, trauma, unkind people they've
(36:20):
encountered before, role models who acted in a way that
weren't kind. And I thought about all of these things,
and it's really easy when you've had some horrible life
experiences or interacted with very unkind and just mean people
in the world, it's very natural for you to want
to continue in that same direction of these people that
(36:43):
you've encountered before. But then I was brought back to
an interview actually on this podcast, episode two, with doctor
Alexandra Solomon, and we were speaking about some of my
past experiences. I was bullied in high school, I was
in an abusive relationship in my early twenties. And as
I'm talking to her about this, and I just say,
(37:05):
very passively, well, because of those experiences, now i'm a
better person and I've learned and grown from those and
she looked at me very kindly, very soft spoken, and
just said, you didn't have to choose to be kind
after those experiences. And I had never really thought about
it in that capacity. I didn't have to choose after
(37:27):
girls bullied me and said incredibly unkind things to me
and made me feel so horrible that I was suicidal
or being in a relationship with a man who physically
and emotionally abused me. After both of those experiences, I
didn't have to choose to be kind to other people
(37:48):
because of that. As a result of that, actually a
lot of people would have done the opposite. They would
have chosen to continue that pattern. And when she said
that to me, it really gave me a very big
perspective on my choices as a human being. We all
get to make our choices, and we all make mistakes
because we are human. But those choices are ours to make,
(38:13):
just as it is my choice to have chosen the
path of positivity and understanding that I don't want anybody
to ever feel the way that I felt in either
of those scenarios, and I didn't want to continue those
patterns of behavior. I chose a different path, just as
somebody else who might have been in my position chose
(38:34):
the path that was a little less difficult, and it
was easier to just continue the path of being me
to continue the pattern of abuse. Our choices are what
makes us human. They're what makes us who we are
as people, but those choices have consequences. So much of
what I wanted to talk to doctor Harry Cohen about
is why people choose to be kind or choose not
(38:57):
to be kind, And maybe in our lifetime, I'm never
going to have the actual answer of why some people
choose a certain path versus some others don't, regardless of
our past experiences. But I know that we as people
have the power to make the right choices. We also
have the power to make the wrong choices, and that's
(39:18):
what this podcast is for. This episode is about having
the strength to make the right choice. Now, I'm human.
Just because I made the right choice in both of
those scenarios and took the harder path doesn't mean I
haven't made the wrong ones and I wasn't human. You
should see me driving on a highway. I have horrible
road rage. I hate when people are inconsiderate of others
(39:39):
and it bothers me to a t. And I've had
to really enter look at myself and say why am
I getting so upset at these people? And take a
step back and understand that other people are experiencing different
life experiences and I have to allow them to also
be human. And that's where I struggle because I'm not
(39:59):
p perfect. I have problems every day. I'm not somebody
who's sitting here and going to say just because I
did it right these few times doesn't mean I have
done it right every single time. But one thing that
I do always boil down to is that I never
want someone to encounter and experience with me and leave
warse off for it. That's something that I've known to
(40:20):
my core from who I was born to be as
a human being, when I was little, and how I
interacted with the world, and as I grew up and
I had these horrible experiences, something that always mattered to
me is that I never wanted other people to walk
away from an experience with me, whether that be a friendship,
a relationship, and encounter just for five minutes that it
(40:43):
was bad that they didn't want to be around me
for the simple fact that I wasn't a good human.
And that's why I say we all get to make choices,
and we all have a say in how we live
our lives. These are my choices, just as you're going
to have yours. And there are some things that I
know for certain. While I am horrible with road rage,
(41:05):
and it's an active thing that I'm working on. You're
never going to see me in a comment section on
somebody's posts, making comments that I can't take back, or
simply making a rude opinion for the sake of a
like You're not going to see me out into the
world pushing somebody down in hopes that I'm lifted back up.
(41:25):
My flaws are different than other people's. Those are flaws
for some people. Those are flaws for a lot of
unfortunately our society and the way that social media works.
But it's been an active choice of mine not to
be part of that, just as for some people they
can actively choose not to have road rage, and they
have a lot of patients in the roads that they
drive on. And you know, while I was thinking about kindness,
(41:49):
especially in regards to this interview with doctor Harry, and
I was on this walk with Remy. It was a
whole walk. I'm telling you, guys, this is the way
that my brain works and the way that I interact
with the world, and a lot of self awareness that
I have is just choosing to be on these walks
and having these thoughts in my brain versus shutting everything
down or shutting everything out. While I was thinking about kindness,
(42:11):
I was walking past a bunch of different cars in
the neighborhood, and there was a whole bunch of different licenses.
Because I live in Nashville, We're kind of a melting
pot and all kinds of people move here. And I
was seeing all these different state license plates, and all
of them had different mottos, you know. I remember seeing Virginia.
That was the first one I saw. It was Virginia's
for Lovers. And then I kind of went down a
rabbit hole of looking up a bunch of different state
(42:33):
slogans to see what either they have on their license
plate or what they stand for. And here's just a
few of them. So New Hampshire, Live Free or Die, Indiana,
the Crossroads of America, Alaska, North to the Future, Oklahoma,
hard work conquers all things, New York Excelsior, Kansas to
the stars through adversity. Oregon, she flies with her own wings.
(42:56):
Personal favorite of mine Texas is Friendship. New Mexico it
grows as it goes, California, Eureka, which apparently means I
have found it. And Wisconsin Forward. Now these are just
a few of them, and if any of these are changed,
I have no idea. This is just what Google says,
but it had me then processing what is my slogan?
(43:19):
I look at all these state license plates, and this
is what these states hope to show when people visit
their state. This is what they hope our whole country
in the world sees them as when they look at
Kansas or Wisconsin or New Hampshire. These are their slogans.
This is what they want to live by. This is
what they want their people and their state to live by.
So what is your slogan? What do you stand for?
(43:41):
What do you hope that every time somebody encounters you
in the world, What do you hope they all come
away with. Your hope is that it's all the same thing, right.
You hope that when you interact with the world, you
have a consistency to you. You hope that when people
to you, it's always going to be a similar experience
(44:05):
because you, as a person would be consistent. That's the goal.
Now I'm not saying that's easy. Now, I'm not saying
we're all at that place in our lives, but that
is the goal. So I would imagine if we all
came up with slogans or maybe a mantra for a
way that you choose to live your life, the way
(44:26):
that you believe you should be interacting with the world.
I think it would help all of us, not only ourselves,
but the way that we exist within the world. You know,
for me, as I was thinking about these slogans, something
that I've always really focused on, especially since that situation
in high school for me being bullied and understanding that
(44:49):
people do not have to interact with the world in
the same way as I do, but that I had
an influence that I could change the way people interact
with the world because of how I choose to interact
with the world. So from that point forward, I really
started to narrow down and take it from someone who's
been in years of therapy, this was not easy. Who
(45:11):
I am today and what I have become was never easy.
It took a lot of pain, It took a lot
of hard conversations and a lot of deep in our
work to find who I am as a human being.
So when I say, for me, these are the things
that I try to focus on, These are the things
that I hope, maybe someday I can come up with
a slogan to represent These are years and years of
(45:33):
work put into who I am as a human being.
Something that I want to do is always focus on authenticity,
being genuine, being compassionate, being strong and very strong human
being physically and emotionally, Being loyal to the people in
my circle, being loyal to the people that I encounter,
(45:53):
and newly because of what you heard, a compliment from
a friend was sunshine. These are all things that I
hope to encompass when I interact with the world, not
just the people in my circle, not just the people
I say every single day, whether they be coworkers or strangers.
This is how I choose as a human being that
I want to interact with the world. Now, what is
(46:15):
that slogan? What encompasses all of those things? I have
no idea, but I thought it was a cool exercise
for us to start to understand ourselves better and how
we want to believe the world exists around us, how
we want to walk out each day out of our
front doors and say this is who I'm going to
(46:35):
be every single day. Because consistency does matter. Consistency matters
not just in our own lives, but in the world
around us, and I think if we can all come
up with these slogans where we understand ourselves and the
things that we want for ourselves and the things that
we want out of this life better, then it makes
(46:57):
interacting with the world with strain in relationships easier. It
helps us know what we always want. It's no different
than maybeing a single person and having to understand what
I want from a partner, somebody who I want to
spend my entire life with. You know, we always make
these pros and con lists or write down characteristics of
(47:18):
a future partner. Why don't we do that for ourselves.
Why don't we understand who we are and what we
want for ourselves better? I think that allows us to
do what doctor Harry Cohen talks about in this interview
and in his book, it's how we can be better
people in the world, Because when we don't understand how
we're supposed to interact with the world, how the heck
(47:42):
are we gonna choose to be a better person every
single day with the people around us that we're interacting with.
Strangers are not so. Perhaps after this episode sit for
five minutes, it doesn't have to be for very long
and try and come up with your slogan. I'm going
to I know what it should encompass, but what do
(48:02):
I actually want it to say? Who is Morgan in
the world of a slogan? If I had to label
myself as I'm walking out into the world, what do
I hope people encounter every time that they have an
experience with me? So the slogan exercise is something fun.
It's something that I feel like can be a great
journal entry for anyone. As I'm sitting here with my
(48:25):
journal that I wrote in after this interview, this is
kind of a journal entry, if you will, after doctor
Harry Cohen, and I think it's just an exercise that
might be beneficial. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's so silly
and so stupid, and maybe it's how I interact with
the world and the way that I see things. And
I thought, hmmm, license plates, slogans, how does that change?
(48:47):
Just as people? Am I a little bit crazy? Sure? Absolutely,
a little bit weird also, yes, absolutely, But I also
think there's a benefit to it. It's no different than
if you recall back in an episode I did with
Jared Houston and we were talking about those venn diagrams
and how you find your center. This is a similar concept,
but this might be able to give you some concrete words,
(49:11):
a concrete basis to choose how you interact with the world,
Because as much as we love to forget it, we
do have an impact. Every single person in this world
has an impact. They are impacting the world around them,
the communities around them, every single day. But how do
you do that with more strength, with more authenticity that
(49:37):
you just radiate kindness, and I believe that so much
of that starts with understanding ourselves that much better. So
take out your journals, your netbooks, your little notes app
and your phone, whatever it may be, and come up
with your slogan. Let me know what yours is. I
love seeing them, and you know, I might have to
(49:58):
steal a combination of Kansas in Organs because I really
loved both of those. I'm gonna be sitting here for
a while coming up with my slogan, my life motto,
my mantra, and hopefully you're able to come up with
one too, And maybe, just maybe, even if there's fifteen
of us that decide to do this, that means there's
fifteen more people in the world who are choosing to
(50:20):
interact in the world with more kindness.
Host
Morgan Huelsman
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