September 16, 2024 • 32 mins
happy monday! Morgan first brings on friendship coach Danielle Bayard Jackson to share her expertise in how to make friends as an adult. Plus, how to sustain friendships when life keeps you busy. Then, one of Morgan's best friend's Jillian Whitefield joins to share how they became friends and how their friendship has evolved over time.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Personally with Morgan Juelsman.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello everyone, it's another episode of Take This Personally.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I'm Morgan.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We've been learning a lot about ourselves and romantic relationships,
but now it's time to learn about friendships. This week,
I have on expert Danielle Bayer Jackson, who is a
female friendship coach. She's going to help us all know
the best ways to make some solid adult friendships. Then
I'm bringing on one of my best friends, Julian Whitefield,
to talk about our friendship story and how she's made
(00:46):
friends in a big city during her twenties. Danielle Bayer
Jackson is a female friendship coach and educator who speaks
(01:09):
nationally on the subject of friendship as a wellness imperative.
Her business, friend Forward, is dedicated to teaching women how
to create and maintain better female friendships. Danielle, how are
you doing today?
Speaker 4 (01:22):
I'm doing okay. I'm really glad that you brought me
on to lend my voice to this conversation because it's
so important.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
For sure, you've dedicated your work to helping women create
and maintain better female friendships.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Why did you feel like.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
There was a job in this need in the first place.
I'm so curious about all of this.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
It's so funny because whenever I tell people what I do,
I just kind of sit back and watch because they're
either like, oh, a friendship coach. That's adorable, people don't
know what to make of it. And so I always say,
it's not like I was eight years old with friendship
coach on my vision board. It definitely wasn't a thing.
But I actually started as a high school English teacher.
So for six years I was working with juniors and seniors,
and I saw all the girls and they would struggle.
(02:02):
They'd come to me between classes or after school with
their issue. And so after six years in the classroom,
I went into public relations, and I'm like, Okay, I'm
probably leaving that teenage drama behind because I'm working with
these charismatic, high achieving business women. And then, as you know,
even there, they're struggling with maintaining friendships because they're so
career focused whatever it is. So one night I came home,
(02:23):
I went on Amazon. I had a curiosity. I just
searched friendship books, and at the time, there were very
few results, and if the ones that came up, they
were for children and I thought, this is what we
think a friendship, that truly it's something a kid would
need help with, but not an adult. And so then
I googled friendship coach, and it like was not a thing,
and I just leaned into it. I already have my
background in education. I got certified to coach, and now
(02:44):
I spend hours a week studying research around female conflict
and communication and cooperation and all these things to help
us understand how can I better relate to other women
and experience more depth in the friendships that I have.
And it's been about four years, it's become a whole thing,
and it's a blessing to serve women in this space.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I love to hear about your education background and just
how that's evolved as you've seen people over time, because
also as we grow up, we evolved, even though we
may not like to admit that that does happen in
our lives. Say you have a client who is nearly
starting from scratch with female friendships, what would the beginning
process look like for them to start finding some really
(03:24):
solid friendships.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Oh that's a great question, and I'm so glad you
asked it because, as you can imagine, hands down. That
is the number one question. It's always how do I
make friends? But it typically comes with some kind of qualifiers.
So how do I make friends? As a woman with
social anxiety? How do I make friends? As a woman
in a new city. How do I make friends? So
I hope it shows us that we'll always be making
new friends. And so the first step is more of
a mindset, and it's to shake off any shame you
(03:47):
have about having to start from scratch, that it's not
something you should have figured out by now. You're not behind,
there's not something wrong with you if you look around
and you're like, oh my gosh, I don't have people.
In fact, research tells us that on average, we replaced
about how half of our friends every seven years, and
so you might be in a season where you're like,
oh gosh, I'm in a pruning season and I have
(04:07):
space to invite new connections. So the first step is
to shake off the shame. The second thing I'd tell
you is to look at the people who are already
in your life, because research also tells us that a
lot of the friends we have are also serving in
some kind of other role, so they might also be
your cousin. They might also be your hairstylist. They might
also be your coworker. So if that's the case, look
around at who already exists and you've dismissed them for
(04:28):
whatever reason as a potential friend. And what would happen
if you like looked at them in like a new way.
Is the first thing. Then I like to say, become
a regular somewhere, because that familiarity makes it more comfortable
for us to start a friendship. And so especially those
of us who are working from home. A lot of
us are in the house all day. We don't get out,
and about maybe you can commit to like working from
a coffee shop every Friday at the same time, or
(04:50):
walking your dog at like the same time, you know,
every day. I'll pause here because I know some women
are like, we can't have routines. We have to be
careful and I heard as a safety precaution, and that's true.
So you know, adapt is to fit lifestyle. How can
you become a regular somewhere? How can you bree familiarity
with the people who work there and the other people
who come there every Friday morning to work out of
their house too, So bringing that familiarity. And then the
(05:10):
last tip I'll give, because I can do this all day,
is to make your desire known and so use social
media to say, oh yeah, moving to Austin and looking
to see if anybody has any recommendations, or text a
friend or an acquaintance who's a super extrovert and just
say hey, I'm just trying to get more plugged in.
I thought of you because you're always out and about
and doing some cool stuff. Is there anything around town
(05:30):
worth checking out? Because they're either going to give you
recommendations or they're going to invite you to be their
plus one. They might say, oh my god, yes we
do happy hour every Tuesday. You have to come. But
no one's going to be able to meet your need
for new connections if you're too embarrassed to let people
know that you want new connections.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I feel like that first step is so important because
if you just live in that shame, you're never going
to do any of the other steps. You're just going
to sit there and say, I'm too embarrassed to try this,
so I'm just going to be alone forever exactly. And
there's finding friends, and there's also finding friends who lift
you up add to your life, empower you. They're what
I like to call my deep connections versus my surface
(06:06):
level friends. How do we ensure that we can find
and cultivate those kind of friendships that are empowering more
than they are surface level.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Oh, I'm so glad you asked that, because sometimes the
conversation does become about like finding new people, which is
so great and you need to have that skill. But
then sometimes I'm like, well, how are you going deep
with the friends you already have? How can you make
that more meaningful?
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Right?
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Because some of us feel a sense of loneliness because
all our friendships are superficial in terms of creating more depth.
The first thing I would say is, look at how
vulnerable you're being. And I know vulnerability is like a
hot topic, but I do want to correct one misconception.
I think people think vulnerability means let me tell you
about my biggest trauma. Let me tell you about this
big thing and self disclose. The best way I've heard
(06:47):
vulnerability to find is you are willing to take a
risk of rejection. And so I'm going to tell you something. Oh,
I know I might look weak, I might look weird,
I might look, I'm going to do it anyway, because
research shows that we tend to like people who are
vulnerable with us. It kind of humanizes them. It's kind
of endearing, and so open up a little bit appropriately,
especially in the beginning, to go a little bit deeper. Also,
(07:08):
try to take your relationships off out of pilots. Sometimes
with the same friends, we do the same things, we
do the same happy hour at the same place. It's okay,
the same way in a romantic relationship where it feels
kind of dry, you're like, we need to jazz this
that same thing. Maybe you're on default with your friends.
Can you infuse new life by operating on a different
social backdrop or trying something totally out of the box together,
because those shared experiences genuinely do really connect you. And
(07:31):
then the final thing I'll say, and this is going
to sound so from left field, ask your friends for help.
It is the number one thing I've seen women are
scared to do. So I recently asked them which of
the following phrases is most difficult for you to say,
I'm sorry, I love you, or I need help. And
hand down women, we're saying it charge for me to
be like can you help me? Research shows we're closer
to people after they help us. If a friendship is
(07:53):
about give and take, but we just want to give,
and we're like, oh, I don't want to take, I
don't want to impose, I don't want inconvenience, I don't
want to Then you're not reaping the full benefits of friendship.
And so if you want a little more depth, whatever
a secret need is, right now, I challenge you to
communicate that to your friends and then watch how that
instantly deepens your connection.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
It's funny that you say that because I was absolutely
that person for so long. I'm so about giving and
I will give all my energy to the outside world
in any possible way I can. But when it came
to people helping me, I refuse it and I didn't
want it in all aspects of my life. And I've
gotten better about doing that. So I love that you
bring that up and encourage people to do that, because
it's something we need to encourage more often. On the
(08:35):
flip side of things, I want to know, when do
you think it's time to maybe give up on a friendship.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
I'm always advocating for, like, no, you can repair this
talk through it, and women's friendships can be very fragile.
Now that they're not deep, they're fragile. But at the
end of the day, sometimes it doesn't work and you've
tried and you love her, but you realize, oh my god,
I don't think I can put the energy into sustain
this anymore. I don't think this is good for me.
And that's okay, because that's just what it is. So
if you're in a place for your life, like I
think I need to let go, the first thing is
(09:02):
to get really clear about what you want to do,
because we ruminate a lot, and research shows that you're
more likely to have health issues when you have ambivalent friendships.
So it does more damage to you to almost have
friendships that you're undecided about as opposed to having no
friendships at all. So first you got to make up
your mind are we doing this or not? And then
let's get moving. So if you decide a time to
(09:23):
let go, I want you to take a couple things
into consideration. One, do not ghost. Do not ghost her.
I know it's timpting. Sometimes we tell herself I don't
want to hurt her feelings or make her feel award.
So I'm just gonna stop talking to her, and I've
seen that leaves a lot of damage for women moving forward.
I know it's uncomfortable, but depending on why y'all are
breaking up, you have to have a conversation, especially if
(09:45):
she expects you two to still be hanging out. Now,
if you too do a gradual friendship fade that happens
all the time where we both kind of agree, yeah,
and we call a little lesson, that's one thing, but
that means both people are on board as soon as
you've determined in your mind you don't want to do
that anymore. But she's under the impression that you guys
are still going strong. We need to have some kind
of conversation to make sure everybody's on the same page.
(10:06):
For her dignity too. I mean, we don't want her
out here looking foolish thinking we're cool, but we don't
enjoy her company. It's not fair to her. So it's
actually an act of generosity to let a friend go. Well,
you're not invested in anymore for her sake, but I
want you to be careful telling her about how she's
not good enough. I just think you're to this. I
think you're too that, and you need to focus on
what it is you need. This is less about her
(10:27):
inadequacies and it's more about you pursuing what you want.
So instead of saying, you know, I just feel like
you're just too negative, You're just I don't know. It's
like a toxic energy. I can't do that, which is
really hard to hear and makes people defensive. Instead, I'll
say I've been giving this a lot of thought, and
the last thing I want to do is hurt your feelings.
But I've been really thinking about this, and I think
that it's best that I prioritize some spaces where I
(10:48):
feel a little different or I feel a little freer,
or prioritize spaces that make me feel whatever it is.
But I want to prioritize X y Z. I don't
think I can keep this friendship up the way that
I have been, and they can gather from that what
they will. But now I've made it about me instead
of you not being good enough, and so I think
if we do that, Yes, it's awkward, Yeah she might
(11:10):
get mad, but at least she's got to respect. You
were direct, and now she can go and live her
life with more clarity. And with friends who appreciate what
she has to give.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Whenever I've found myself in situations where the friendships weren't
co beneficial, I felt like they were draining all of
my energy. That's when I would kind of move them
to a surface level that category for me, and then
I would hone in more on the other friendships that
were really feeding into me. And that seemed to help
with the transition easier too, because it did allow for
(11:40):
that kind of gradual Okay, this just wasn't working situation.
You know, friendships and love work in similar ways that
if they're not your person, sometimes you just kind of
have to take a few steps back. You still love
them from afar, and you're still supportive and encourage them,
but you can't give all your energy.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
I so appreciate you saying that. Let me clarify the
little script and stuff that I gave is for there's
some kind of circumstances where it does need a clean termination,
whether she's really hurt you and you can't do it anymore,
or whether you don't want to modify the friendship you
don't know how to, so you know that the only
thing you can do is totally tear away. So that's
for that, but I do always advise. I'm so glad
you said that. I think that's a great strategy.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
What you just said.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Maybe I recategorize her in my mind, maybe I expect
a little less. Maybe I decreased the frequency. Sometimes we
realize that we can enjoy friends and like smaller doses,
and we're like, I love her, but I'm realizing when
we hang out once a month, that is good enough
for me. I can't do the weekly check ins.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
It's a lot.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
So sometimes she's the perfect friend for you, as like
a three hours a month friend. So I encourage you
to experiment with what it can look like and maybe
that feels good as opposed to thinking the options are
keep her on full blast or totally cut her off.
So that's beautiful and I love that strategy.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah, I mean it took me a long time to
get there, so I'm glad it's a good.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
One that I can keep leaning on. Is there any reason.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Or scientific research that explains why it's so difficult for us,
especially as adults, to make good friends.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
So there is research, and I also have my theories.
It's a couple things. One ironically, we feel like we
know ourselves so well, so we're like, I know, I'm
an intrograd I just I know myself, or I don't
get along with those kind of people. I know what
I like, And sometimes we get stuck because we're so
convinsed that as a grown adult, I know what I like.
So we take fewer risks, so we're less open minded,
(13:26):
we're less curious about people when we do meet them.
You know, I'm gonna use the word stereotype a little bit,
but we kind of do like, oh, she's seems shy,
or like, oh, she's a lot older than me, like
we're gonna be friends. So we do a lot of
categorizing people immediately because we know and our brain's been
trained autopilot. But if we got a little more curious,
I think we'd instantly become more aware of just how
(13:47):
much opportunity is out there if we were curious like
a child, instead of so like, oh, yeah, I have
her figured out. I know her type. I don't get
along with women like that. The second thing is the
fear of rejection. We never outgrow that. Everybody wants to
feel confident you're going to be accepted or your idea
is going to sound smart, so we're scared of that.
And because we're scared of that, and we feel like
we've had experience of rejection and we don't want to
do that again, we initiate a little less, We wave
(14:10):
to strangers a little less, we start conversations a little less.
We are less likely to text a girl who seems
kind of cool and be like, I would love to
hang out sometimes because we're scared that this person's gonna
be like, you're awful. I can't believe you asked me
to get out of here, which the average person is
not doing that. Some of us are introverted or shy,
and so we might get out there a little bit less.
And then the last thing I'll say too, or two
(14:31):
last things, is a lack of time. We've got other priorities.
We've got work, we got kids, we got the dogs,
we got vacations, we got and so we tend to
put friendship in the margins of our lives. I'll get
to that when I have time for that stuff. But
we need to start talking about friendship more from a
wellness perspective, not just a fun thing to do sometimes,
but something that's like, oh my gosh, I need friends
for my physical, mental, emotional health. I got to prioritize this,
(14:54):
and so the time thing, I think it's in the way.
And then finally, a lot of us believe the lie
that it's too late for me. I should have already
made my friends. I'm forty and that is not true.
So just remember the moment you say it's too late
for me, you just signed yourself up for what another
forty years of friendlessness. So it can start any time.
You just have to stay curious. You have to be
(15:15):
bold about initiating and realize how vast the friendship landscape
really is.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I love that you said wellness as a way of
looking at friendships. I've never heard anyone say it like
that before. But I don't know what I would do
without the support system of my girlfriends behind me. They
have changed my life in so many ways. So I
love hearing that perspective, and it's good.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I love that you have lived experience to be like,
oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
That is true.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
I need my squad.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
But yes, one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
What is something you would tell There's a lot of
young women out there. We're both very young, but younger
than us, maybe in high school and around that age
who are in the midst of starting to create some
lifelong friendships. What's something that you would tell them that
you wish we all knew at their age.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Things.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
But the main thing I'll say is this, and it's
gonna sound so corny, but I wouldn't say it if
it weren't Bible like the truth. We are so concerned
sometimes about finding the right friends and friends who are
good to us, and we want to know eight signs
that she's a narcissistant, she's toxic. And I always say
it makes me sad because I think so many of
us have been hurt that we're now protecting ourselves when
we go out. We want assurance that is she good?
Speaker 5 (16:21):
Is she bad?
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Is she good for me? You have to find a
way to be a good, confident friend.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
And you will.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
You will attract the healthy friendships you're looking for. I mean,
that's the trick. That's the key. You need to be
warm and inviting and look people in the eyes and
in the face and smile when you go out places.
You need to find that girl who looks like she's
kind of on the fringes and say hello. You need
to pursue that girl who seems kind of cool, like
in your classes, and she might reject you, because the
(16:49):
more you put yourself out there mathematically, you're probably gonna
get more rejection. But being confident in yourself to know
that's not about me, there's nothing wrong with me. I'm
not less lovable or interesting or funny if this girl
does not want to engage with me. And so people
are surprised to know. There's a list of ten traits
that make a good friend psychologists who are friendship experts
have designed and people are surprised to know two of
(17:11):
the traits that are on that list. Some of those
traits you would expect somebody reliable, trustworthy, fun Two that
surprised people are one a willingness to trust, because it's
hard to be friends with somebody who's waiting for you
to screw them over. And the second one is self confidence.
So you have to know that you have something worthy
to offer, You have something that other women would probably
really love and appreciate. But if you're walking around here
(17:33):
hunched over and scared because secretly you don't think you
have anything to offer. Secretly you think you're going to
be exposed as a fraud, and all your messiness that's
going to keep you isolated in a hole. So as
soon as you can find a way to make other
people belong, be warm, and believe you have something worthy
to offer, you will attract the kind of friendships that
(17:54):
you've been dreaming of making.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
All these other friends and what they're like. But it's
so important for us to ensure that we can also
be a good friend in return when we find them.
I love that you mentioned that and made sure that
it's not just about the person on the other end.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
It's also about what's going on inside of you.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
It really is. It's so surprising sometimes to figure out, like,
oh my gosh, how much of your personal stuff you
bring to your friendships, because it's not just about having fun.
So let's say you do make friends with somebody, but
you're not self assured. You might tolerate mistreatment because you're
not sure you think, like, well, I guess it's better
than having no friends. So being confident helps you have
healthy friendships. When you're in them, you won't tolerate mistreatment.
(18:30):
You'll be more willing to be like generous and be
a giver without wondering, well, how will that make me? Look,
and I don't want to be taking advantage of it.
You just like operate from a place of just confidence.
You go for it. So if you want to have
fun and a good time and secure relationships, you do
have to really believe that you're worthy. So I think
if I knew that younger and I wasn't in a
(18:50):
place of insecurity or doing little things to fit in.
And so I think the sooner girls can get that
lesson that you have something to offer. I think eventually
we'll all be better for it.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yes, Oh, such an important message. Thank you so much,
and thank you for sharing your expertise on all of this.
As much as we like to say we have it
all figured out, we don't, and it's really good to
have tools to keep figuring it out.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
So thank you, oh, thank you for creating a space
for us to have this conversation. It's so important.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
If you would like to see the work Danielle is
doing with friendships, she has a podcast called the friend
Forward Podcast, and you can find all of her stuff
at Betterfemale Friendships dot com. I've made some amazing friends
(19:43):
in my thirty years of life, and one of my
best friends who I've made an.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Adulthood is Jillian Whitefield.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
We've been friends going on almost five years now, and
I brought her on to talk about our friendship and
how we met.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Hey, Joe, I'm so excited to have you on and
be your first podcast.
Speaker 5 (19:59):
I'm so excited be here. Thank you for asking me.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Of course, I had a female friendship coach on right
before you, named Danielle, and she gave so much insight
into just friendships in general as adults. You and I
met through some mutual friends, which was kind of a
chance meeting in itself. Yes, but I wanted you to
share our friendship story from your perspective.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
It's kind of funny we became friends so quickly. I
feel like when we first met, it was just like
we instantly clicked. And I think that there's some things
about our personalities that are different, but we just instantly
became the best of friends.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
It's funny because we really kind of.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Met during the start of COVID when everything hit, and
I just remember, like one of my favorite memories with
you was I would stay at your house so much
that first summer that we became friends that it almost
felt like we were sisters right away. So yeah, we
just kind of instantly bonded, and I think that's definitely rare,
(20:56):
you know, when you make friendships later on in life
as an adult.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
I think it's.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Funny you mentioned that you moved in with me too,
because I love living by myself, but living with you too.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
In a way.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
We didn't live together, but you were over here often
enough that I consider that we lived together for a
few months there, and I really enjoyed having you here,
which is saying a lot.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yeah in itself.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, it was like not planned, It just kind of
fell into place, and yeah, our friendship kind of started
from there.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
It was awesome.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
And speaking of the first time that we met and
just our friendship story in general, when you first met me,
what was going through your brain?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Did you think of anything about me that stuck out
to you?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Honestly, Morgan, I feel like so many people would say
this about you. You exude a confidence about you, but
you are not intimidating in that way. You, I think,
make friends so quickly and people instantly let their guard
down with you, And that's what you know, At least
for me, I felt like we became friends so quickly,
(21:55):
But I think you just kind of exuded this confidence,
but you're also fun. When this maybe sounds a little
but I feel like you are always down for an
adventure and you just have that adventurous side of you,
which I love because I'm naturally a little bit more introverted.
So that was probably my first impression of you, and
I feel like it still holds true. Oh.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I love that it was a good one. You know,
sometimes they can be bad, so I'm glad that one
was good, and mine of yours was very good too.
The immediate reaction that I had was you were this sweet, innocent,
little ball of sunshine. You smiled often, and you were
really polite, and you were just really kind, and you
more than anything, exuded so much kindness about you, and
(22:34):
I was maybe.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
We could be friends. I'm not sure. Yeah, she so
introverted that we couldn't be friends.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
And then I learned quickly that you weren't. But that
was a great first impression for you too. What is
the most fun memory? You mentioned some of our times
hanging out together. We kind of locked down together during COVID.
What is one of your most fun memories of ours?
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah, okay, I have so many, and a couple just
came to mind, But honestly, one of my favorites was
just when we had like a game night at your
house and we had a couple people over and it
was kind of a not like our normal just small
friend group, but it was just a wider group and
we had game night, we drank wine and had snacks
and it was just fun and like a chill night.
(23:16):
And then I think there was another night where we
did like a whole charcuterie board situation on your kitchen
counter and like took up the whole island.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
That was such a fun night. So it's like fun
nights in like that. I mean, obviously we've.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Had, you know, nights where we've gone out and done
other things, but yeah, that probably stands out.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I will mention the one night that we went out
that I really love and will forever stand memory for me.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
We went to a rooftop here.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
In Nashville, and it was you and I and one
of our other friends, Jody, and it.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Was this night.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yes, it was my favorite night out because it was
just the three of us.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
We were having the best time.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
All of us were in great moods, no reason, we
really plan, Yeah, we were just rolling with it, and
we ended up staying at that rooftop pretty much all
night and we just danced away.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
We didn't care who was around us.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
We were having fun conversations and we've had so many
adventures in so many great times together, but that one
will always stick.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Out for me in our friendship.
Speaker 5 (24:10):
Yes, I know exactly the one you're talking about. That
was great, great time.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I mean there's more. We could sit here all day
and remember our memories.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
What are some qualities that you look for in a
really solid friendship as an adult?
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Definitely? I think you know.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
First is probably just that that loyalty, and I guess
that's obviously established longer term, but instantly, when I'm meeting
someone and you kind of think, can I be friends
with this person? It's I think that sense of honesty, authenticity.
People use words like that all the time, but you know,
you just kind of know when you click with someone
and when you feel like they're being real with you.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
So I feel like just a truthful.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Friend, someone that encourages you, someone that also challenges you
in your weaker moments or areas, and then just someone
who's loyal who sticks around through thick and thin.
Speaker 5 (24:55):
That really makes a huge difference.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Loyalty has always been a really strong one for you
in friendships and relationships.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Yes, I would say my friends across the board.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
If I looked at my really solid I say, I
have really good, deep friends, and then I have good
friends who I can always hang out with, and then
I have surface level friends, different tiers of friendships.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
I get that.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
And with all of my great deep connection friends, there's
two qualities that I find in all of them. They
always show up whenever it's just to hang out or
I need them or they need me. We just show
up for each other. And then the other one is
that they're always up for anything.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Yes, and those are two.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Of your qualities. You're in that group of my great friends.
And I have about five of them that I would
consider in that group. And those are two really strong
qualities that you guys are all so different, but those
are two qualities that each of you have.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
We do.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
We all have different personalities.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
It's interesting, but absolutely yes, once you make friends with me,
I'd like to hope that.
Speaker 5 (25:51):
You know your friends for life. So here we are.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
That is the goal.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
And we have been going strong and it continues to grow.
Also adult friendships are hard. I love looking at our
friendship because we did become friends as adults younger twenties.
However you want to classify that, I classify us as adults.
We were very grown up, mature women, and they're hard.
You're actively busy in your life with work, with all
(26:15):
these priorities you have in friendship sometimes falls to the
back burner. But I'm really lucky in that I've made
a lot of great adult friendships outside of our friendship
and how the mutual friends kind of chance meeting happened
for us. What were some ways that you've made good
friends as an adult, because you are someone I consider
who just keeps going and putting herself out there with friends.
Speaker 5 (26:38):
That's a great question.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
I think that when I look at my friend groups,
I have friends in a lot of different areas, and
I think some of that is attributed to I've worked
in two different industries, you know. I started off working
in the music industry. Now I work in healthcare.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
Very very different.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
But yeah, I'd like to think that I do just
kind of put myself out there. I'm open to meeting
all sorts of different people, whether that's at work, whether
that's through church, or if it's just through community or
different events social things. I try to be in a
lot of different areas, and that's where you meet different
people and all different sorts of backgrounds.
Speaker 5 (27:13):
So I think that that's probably the first key.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
You know, you can't make friends if you're staying at
home and isolating.
Speaker 5 (27:19):
So that's probably, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
The way I've gone about it, at least recently, particularly
having to be intentional about it since COVID.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
You are very good about always socializing, especially on the
weekends when you're out, and about if you had to
give someone a piece of advice when they're looking for
friends and they're actively going out, what's the one thing
you would tell them to make sure to do.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
I think that when I think about, Okay, who are
the types of people that I want to surround myself
with and who are the friends that I want to find,
I try to think, Okay, where would those types of
people be? So are they going to be out at
a restaurant? Are they going to be at, you know,
like a happy hour on Wednesday? Are they going to
be Just kind of have to think about like the
places that they're going to be and then show up
(28:00):
to those places. Again, it kind of comes down to
putting yourself out there and then being kind, being friendly,
and asking open questions. I think so many times we
go out and we're like, Okay, how am I presenting myself?
Speaker 5 (28:11):
And how do I look in all of that?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
But really it's putting that focus outward and really being
intentional again with the conversations that you have with the
people that you meet, and being open.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Do you think you're at a point in your life
now where you have enough great friends or are you
always looking for more friendships?
Speaker 5 (28:27):
I'm always looking for more friendships.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean I think there's something to be
said about you have your small group of friends, and
the older you get, sometimes the smaller your friend groups get,
just because again I keep using the word intentional, but
you want to have those meaningful I'll say relationships, But
I'm always open to new friendships and meeting new people
and creating those relationships.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Well, you're a really great friend to me. I know,
you're just a great person all the way around, which
is why I wanted you to come on board this episode.
I want to ask you some rapid fire fun questions
now that we've got and all vulnerable.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
And shared our hearts with y'all. Okay, Jillian, what is
your life motto or mantra?
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Gosh, there's so many that are coming to mind, but
I think probably treat others the way that you want
to be treated.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
The Golden rule.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
I believe the golden rule.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yeah, treat others the way you want to be treated.
So much of that is obviously just empathy. I try
to think ahead of how my actions will affect or
impact others, and the way that I plan, the way
that I think, the words that I say. I think
that words carry so much weight. They can also be
such a blessing to others. So I think, yeah, just
treating others the way you want to be treated and
being conscious of that.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
You live that already. That makes sense. That's your life motto.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
How do you want people to feel whenever they're around you?
Speaker 3 (29:41):
What's your hope?
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Interesting that you say hope, because that is what I
would hope to give others. I would love to when
I'm around others, for them to feel like they can
also let their guard down with me, and to really know,
you know, I have your best.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
Interest in mind.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Maybe I don't know you, but I you know, would
love to know you and give others sense of hope
because there is so much that is going on in
the world. There's a lot that's heavy, and so I
hope that my friendship is light and that people feel
that they can be themselves around me.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
You do that, you already do a really great job
of that.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
You don't have to hope at all.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I promise if you could choose one thing that would
make the world better, what would you choose?
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Oh gosh, probably goes back to kindness again. Thinking ahead,
thinking the actions that I'm taking and what I'm doing,
how is that going to impact someone else? Or how
can I help someone else? You know, I go through
my day and I'm thinking, Okay, I got to check
this off and check this off, and I have my list,
and we have so much of our routines that we do,
but sometimes it's stopping and thinking, you know, how can
(30:41):
I really help others and impact them? Like I'll give
a really quick example, but yesterday I think I was
at FedEx and I was supposed to pick up something
there for work, and long story short, it was delayed
and they said can you wait thirty minutes?
Speaker 5 (30:52):
And I didn't really have that time.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
And I said, you know, in my head, this is
an opportunity where I can be kind and I can
be patient and not rush this person, and it ended
up being fine. So sometimes just having that patience I
think goes a long way.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
You also have that you're talking about all these qualities
and these are things that you also have, which I
think is cool in itself. My last one for you,
what does getting out of your comfort zone look like?
Speaker 3 (31:14):
For you?
Speaker 2 (31:15):
You mention, I make sure we go on a lot
of adventures and stuff. If you had a comfort zone
and you were getting out of it, what would that
look like?
Speaker 1 (31:21):
I think probably for me, I am naturally somewhat introverted,
so I'm great at one on one conversations. So me
getting out of my comfort zone is probably just being
in a larger group of people that I don't know
and still feeling comfortable, you know, speaking up and this
is who I am, and probably initiating those conversations. I
love social events and being around larger groups. But that's
(31:43):
probably me getting out of my comfort zone for sure.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I think a lot of people can relate to that.
I had so much fun talking to you, getting to
know you so far. Further on, a deeper level, even
though you're one of my best friends.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Something about podcast intimacy is a real thing.
Speaker 5 (31:59):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Yeah, well, thank you having me.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, thank you for coming on so much girlpower on
the podcast this week. Guys, don't worry, this advice can
also pertain to you, so I hope you also got
something out of it. As always, be sure to hit
up the podcast on Instagram at Take This Personally, follow it,
leave some comments, let me know how you're feeling about
the podcast, or write in the email if you have
an idea for a guest or a topic. Take This
(32:22):
Personally podcast at gmail dot com. Next week, I'm bringing
on doctor Amy Tran to talk all about trauma from
childhood and unresolved trauma and how to decipher between feeling
or fact. And then I'll share a little personal journal
entry with you all and some things I needed to
learn from my time growing up. That's all for now.
Talk to you guys next week.
Personally with Morgan Juelsman.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello everyone, it's another episode of Take This Personally.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I'm Morgan.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We've been learning a lot about ourselves and romantic relationships,
but now it's time to learn about friendships. This week,
I have on expert Danielle Bayer Jackson, who is a
female friendship coach. She's going to help us all know
the best ways to make some solid adult friendships. Then
I'm bringing on one of my best friends, Julian Whitefield,
to talk about our friendship story and how she's made
(00:46):
friends in a big city during her twenties. Danielle Bayer
Jackson is a female friendship coach and educator who speaks
(01:09):
nationally on the subject of friendship as a wellness imperative.
Her business, friend Forward, is dedicated to teaching women how
to create and maintain better female friendships. Danielle, how are
you doing today?
Speaker 4 (01:22):
I'm doing okay. I'm really glad that you brought me
on to lend my voice to this conversation because it's
so important.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
For sure, you've dedicated your work to helping women create
and maintain better female friendships.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Why did you feel like.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
There was a job in this need in the first place.
I'm so curious about all of this.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
It's so funny because whenever I tell people what I do,
I just kind of sit back and watch because they're
either like, oh, a friendship coach. That's adorable, people don't
know what to make of it. And so I always say,
it's not like I was eight years old with friendship
coach on my vision board. It definitely wasn't a thing.
But I actually started as a high school English teacher.
So for six years I was working with juniors and seniors,
and I saw all the girls and they would struggle.
(02:02):
They'd come to me between classes or after school with
their issue. And so after six years in the classroom,
I went into public relations, and I'm like, Okay, I'm
probably leaving that teenage drama behind because I'm working with
these charismatic, high achieving business women. And then, as you know,
even there, they're struggling with maintaining friendships because they're so
career focused whatever it is. So one night I came home,
(02:23):
I went on Amazon. I had a curiosity. I just
searched friendship books, and at the time, there were very
few results, and if the ones that came up, they
were for children and I thought, this is what we
think a friendship, that truly it's something a kid would
need help with, but not an adult. And so then
I googled friendship coach, and it like was not a thing,
and I just leaned into it. I already have my
background in education. I got certified to coach, and now
(02:44):
I spend hours a week studying research around female conflict
and communication and cooperation and all these things to help
us understand how can I better relate to other women
and experience more depth in the friendships that I have.
And it's been about four years, it's become a whole thing,
and it's a blessing to serve women in this space.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I love to hear about your education background and just
how that's evolved as you've seen people over time, because
also as we grow up, we evolved, even though we
may not like to admit that that does happen in
our lives. Say you have a client who is nearly
starting from scratch with female friendships, what would the beginning
process look like for them to start finding some really
(03:24):
solid friendships.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Oh that's a great question, and I'm so glad you
asked it because, as you can imagine, hands down. That
is the number one question. It's always how do I
make friends? But it typically comes with some kind of qualifiers.
So how do I make friends? As a woman with
social anxiety? How do I make friends? As a woman
in a new city. How do I make friends? So
I hope it shows us that we'll always be making
new friends. And so the first step is more of
a mindset, and it's to shake off any shame you
(03:47):
have about having to start from scratch, that it's not
something you should have figured out by now. You're not behind,
there's not something wrong with you if you look around
and you're like, oh my gosh, I don't have people.
In fact, research tells us that on average, we replaced
about how half of our friends every seven years, and
so you might be in a season where you're like,
oh gosh, I'm in a pruning season and I have
(04:07):
space to invite new connections. So the first step is
to shake off the shame. The second thing I'd tell
you is to look at the people who are already
in your life, because research also tells us that a
lot of the friends we have are also serving in
some kind of other role, so they might also be
your cousin. They might also be your hairstylist. They might
also be your coworker. So if that's the case, look
around at who already exists and you've dismissed them for
(04:28):
whatever reason as a potential friend. And what would happen
if you like looked at them in like a new way.
Is the first thing. Then I like to say, become
a regular somewhere, because that familiarity makes it more comfortable
for us to start a friendship. And so especially those
of us who are working from home. A lot of
us are in the house all day. We don't get out,
and about maybe you can commit to like working from
a coffee shop every Friday at the same time, or
(04:50):
walking your dog at like the same time, you know,
every day. I'll pause here because I know some women
are like, we can't have routines. We have to be
careful and I heard as a safety precaution, and that's true.
So you know, adapt is to fit lifestyle. How can
you become a regular somewhere? How can you bree familiarity
with the people who work there and the other people
who come there every Friday morning to work out of
their house too, So bringing that familiarity. And then the
(05:10):
last tip I'll give, because I can do this all day,
is to make your desire known and so use social
media to say, oh yeah, moving to Austin and looking
to see if anybody has any recommendations, or text a
friend or an acquaintance who's a super extrovert and just
say hey, I'm just trying to get more plugged in.
I thought of you because you're always out and about
and doing some cool stuff. Is there anything around town
(05:30):
worth checking out? Because they're either going to give you
recommendations or they're going to invite you to be their
plus one. They might say, oh my god, yes we
do happy hour every Tuesday. You have to come. But
no one's going to be able to meet your need
for new connections if you're too embarrassed to let people
know that you want new connections.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I feel like that first step is so important because
if you just live in that shame, you're never going
to do any of the other steps. You're just going
to sit there and say, I'm too embarrassed to try this,
so I'm just going to be alone forever exactly. And
there's finding friends, and there's also finding friends who lift
you up add to your life, empower you. They're what
I like to call my deep connections versus my surface
(06:06):
level friends. How do we ensure that we can find
and cultivate those kind of friendships that are empowering more
than they are surface level.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Oh, I'm so glad you asked that, because sometimes the
conversation does become about like finding new people, which is
so great and you need to have that skill. But
then sometimes I'm like, well, how are you going deep
with the friends you already have? How can you make
that more meaningful?
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Right?
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Because some of us feel a sense of loneliness because
all our friendships are superficial in terms of creating more depth.
The first thing I would say is, look at how
vulnerable you're being. And I know vulnerability is like a
hot topic, but I do want to correct one misconception.
I think people think vulnerability means let me tell you
about my biggest trauma. Let me tell you about this
big thing and self disclose. The best way I've heard
(06:47):
vulnerability to find is you are willing to take a
risk of rejection. And so I'm going to tell you something. Oh,
I know I might look weak, I might look weird,
I might look, I'm going to do it anyway, because
research shows that we tend to like people who are
vulnerable with us. It kind of humanizes them. It's kind
of endearing, and so open up a little bit appropriately,
especially in the beginning, to go a little bit deeper. Also,
(07:08):
try to take your relationships off out of pilots. Sometimes
with the same friends, we do the same things, we
do the same happy hour at the same place. It's okay,
the same way in a romantic relationship where it feels
kind of dry, you're like, we need to jazz this
that same thing. Maybe you're on default with your friends.
Can you infuse new life by operating on a different
social backdrop or trying something totally out of the box together,
because those shared experiences genuinely do really connect you. And
(07:31):
then the final thing I'll say, and this is going
to sound so from left field, ask your friends for help.
It is the number one thing I've seen women are
scared to do. So I recently asked them which of
the following phrases is most difficult for you to say,
I'm sorry, I love you, or I need help. And
hand down women, we're saying it charge for me to
be like can you help me? Research shows we're closer
to people after they help us. If a friendship is
(07:53):
about give and take, but we just want to give,
and we're like, oh, I don't want to take, I
don't want to impose, I don't want inconvenience, I don't
want to Then you're not reaping the full benefits of friendship.
And so if you want a little more depth, whatever
a secret need is, right now, I challenge you to
communicate that to your friends and then watch how that
instantly deepens your connection.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
It's funny that you say that because I was absolutely
that person for so long. I'm so about giving and
I will give all my energy to the outside world
in any possible way I can. But when it came
to people helping me, I refuse it and I didn't
want it in all aspects of my life. And I've
gotten better about doing that. So I love that you
bring that up and encourage people to do that, because
it's something we need to encourage more often. On the
(08:35):
flip side of things, I want to know, when do
you think it's time to maybe give up on a friendship.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
I'm always advocating for, like, no, you can repair this
talk through it, and women's friendships can be very fragile.
Now that they're not deep, they're fragile. But at the
end of the day, sometimes it doesn't work and you've
tried and you love her, but you realize, oh my god,
I don't think I can put the energy into sustain
this anymore. I don't think this is good for me.
And that's okay, because that's just what it is. So
if you're in a place for your life, like I
think I need to let go, the first thing is
(09:02):
to get really clear about what you want to do,
because we ruminate a lot, and research shows that you're
more likely to have health issues when you have ambivalent friendships.
So it does more damage to you to almost have
friendships that you're undecided about as opposed to having no
friendships at all. So first you got to make up
your mind are we doing this or not? And then
let's get moving. So if you decide a time to
(09:23):
let go, I want you to take a couple things
into consideration. One, do not ghost. Do not ghost her.
I know it's timpting. Sometimes we tell herself I don't
want to hurt her feelings or make her feel award.
So I'm just gonna stop talking to her, and I've
seen that leaves a lot of damage for women moving forward.
I know it's uncomfortable, but depending on why y'all are
breaking up, you have to have a conversation, especially if
(09:45):
she expects you two to still be hanging out. Now,
if you too do a gradual friendship fade that happens
all the time where we both kind of agree, yeah,
and we call a little lesson, that's one thing, but
that means both people are on board as soon as
you've determined in your mind you don't want to do
that anymore. But she's under the impression that you guys
are still going strong. We need to have some kind
of conversation to make sure everybody's on the same page.
(10:06):
For her dignity too. I mean, we don't want her
out here looking foolish thinking we're cool, but we don't
enjoy her company. It's not fair to her. So it's
actually an act of generosity to let a friend go. Well,
you're not invested in anymore for her sake, but I
want you to be careful telling her about how she's
not good enough. I just think you're to this. I
think you're too that, and you need to focus on
what it is you need. This is less about her
(10:27):
inadequacies and it's more about you pursuing what you want.
So instead of saying, you know, I just feel like
you're just too negative, You're just I don't know. It's
like a toxic energy. I can't do that, which is
really hard to hear and makes people defensive. Instead, I'll
say I've been giving this a lot of thought, and
the last thing I want to do is hurt your feelings.
But I've been really thinking about this, and I think
that it's best that I prioritize some spaces where I
(10:48):
feel a little different or I feel a little freer,
or prioritize spaces that make me feel whatever it is.
But I want to prioritize X y Z. I don't
think I can keep this friendship up the way that
I have been, and they can gather from that what
they will. But now I've made it about me instead
of you not being good enough, and so I think
if we do that, Yes, it's awkward, Yeah she might
(11:10):
get mad, but at least she's got to respect. You
were direct, and now she can go and live her
life with more clarity. And with friends who appreciate what
she has to give.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Whenever I've found myself in situations where the friendships weren't
co beneficial, I felt like they were draining all of
my energy. That's when I would kind of move them
to a surface level that category for me, and then
I would hone in more on the other friendships that
were really feeding into me. And that seemed to help
with the transition easier too, because it did allow for
(11:40):
that kind of gradual Okay, this just wasn't working situation.
You know, friendships and love work in similar ways that
if they're not your person, sometimes you just kind of
have to take a few steps back. You still love
them from afar, and you're still supportive and encourage them,
but you can't give all your energy.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
I so appreciate you saying that. Let me clarify the
little script and stuff that I gave is for there's
some kind of circumstances where it does need a clean termination,
whether she's really hurt you and you can't do it anymore,
or whether you don't want to modify the friendship you
don't know how to, so you know that the only
thing you can do is totally tear away. So that's
for that, but I do always advise. I'm so glad
you said that. I think that's a great strategy.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
What you just said.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
Maybe I recategorize her in my mind, maybe I expect
a little less. Maybe I decreased the frequency. Sometimes we
realize that we can enjoy friends and like smaller doses,
and we're like, I love her, but I'm realizing when
we hang out once a month, that is good enough
for me. I can't do the weekly check ins.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
It's a lot.
Speaker 4 (12:34):
So sometimes she's the perfect friend for you, as like
a three hours a month friend. So I encourage you
to experiment with what it can look like and maybe
that feels good as opposed to thinking the options are
keep her on full blast or totally cut her off.
So that's beautiful and I love that strategy.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah, I mean it took me a long time to
get there, so I'm glad it's a good.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
One that I can keep leaning on. Is there any reason.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
Or scientific research that explains why it's so difficult for us,
especially as adults, to make good friends.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
So there is research, and I also have my theories.
It's a couple things. One ironically, we feel like we
know ourselves so well, so we're like, I know, I'm
an intrograd I just I know myself, or I don't
get along with those kind of people. I know what
I like, And sometimes we get stuck because we're so
convinsed that as a grown adult, I know what I like.
So we take fewer risks, so we're less open minded,
(13:26):
we're less curious about people when we do meet them.
You know, I'm gonna use the word stereotype a little bit,
but we kind of do like, oh, she's seems shy,
or like, oh, she's a lot older than me, like
we're gonna be friends. So we do a lot of
categorizing people immediately because we know and our brain's been
trained autopilot. But if we got a little more curious,
I think we'd instantly become more aware of just how
(13:47):
much opportunity is out there if we were curious like
a child, instead of so like, oh, yeah, I have
her figured out. I know her type. I don't get
along with women like that. The second thing is the
fear of rejection. We never outgrow that. Everybody wants to
feel confident you're going to be accepted or your idea
is going to sound smart, so we're scared of that.
And because we're scared of that, and we feel like
we've had experience of rejection and we don't want to
do that again, we initiate a little less, We wave
(14:10):
to strangers a little less, we start conversations a little less.
We are less likely to text a girl who seems
kind of cool and be like, I would love to
hang out sometimes because we're scared that this person's gonna
be like, you're awful. I can't believe you asked me
to get out of here, which the average person is
not doing that. Some of us are introverted or shy,
and so we might get out there a little bit less.
And then the last thing I'll say too, or two
(14:31):
last things, is a lack of time. We've got other priorities.
We've got work, we got kids, we got the dogs,
we got vacations, we got and so we tend to
put friendship in the margins of our lives. I'll get
to that when I have time for that stuff. But
we need to start talking about friendship more from a
wellness perspective, not just a fun thing to do sometimes,
but something that's like, oh my gosh, I need friends
for my physical, mental, emotional health. I got to prioritize this,
(14:54):
and so the time thing, I think it's in the way.
And then finally, a lot of us believe the lie
that it's too late for me. I should have already
made my friends. I'm forty and that is not true.
So just remember the moment you say it's too late
for me, you just signed yourself up for what another
forty years of friendlessness. So it can start any time.
You just have to stay curious. You have to be
(15:15):
bold about initiating and realize how vast the friendship landscape
really is.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I love that you said wellness as a way of
looking at friendships. I've never heard anyone say it like
that before. But I don't know what I would do
without the support system of my girlfriends behind me. They
have changed my life in so many ways. So I
love hearing that perspective, and it's good.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I love that you have lived experience to be like,
oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
That is true.
Speaker 4 (15:38):
I need my squad.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
But yes, one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
What is something you would tell There's a lot of
young women out there. We're both very young, but younger
than us, maybe in high school and around that age
who are in the midst of starting to create some
lifelong friendships. What's something that you would tell them that
you wish we all knew at their age.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Things.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
But the main thing I'll say is this, and it's
gonna sound so corny, but I wouldn't say it if
it weren't Bible like the truth. We are so concerned
sometimes about finding the right friends and friends who are
good to us, and we want to know eight signs
that she's a narcissistant, she's toxic. And I always say
it makes me sad because I think so many of
us have been hurt that we're now protecting ourselves when
we go out. We want assurance that is she good?
Speaker 5 (16:21):
Is she bad?
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Is she good for me? You have to find a
way to be a good, confident friend.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
And you will.
Speaker 4 (16:29):
You will attract the healthy friendships you're looking for. I mean,
that's the trick. That's the key. You need to be
warm and inviting and look people in the eyes and
in the face and smile when you go out places.
You need to find that girl who looks like she's
kind of on the fringes and say hello. You need
to pursue that girl who seems kind of cool, like
in your classes, and she might reject you, because the
(16:49):
more you put yourself out there mathematically, you're probably gonna
get more rejection. But being confident in yourself to know
that's not about me, there's nothing wrong with me. I'm
not less lovable or interesting or funny if this girl
does not want to engage with me. And so people
are surprised to know. There's a list of ten traits
that make a good friend psychologists who are friendship experts
have designed and people are surprised to know two of
(17:11):
the traits that are on that list. Some of those
traits you would expect somebody reliable, trustworthy, fun Two that
surprised people are one a willingness to trust, because it's
hard to be friends with somebody who's waiting for you
to screw them over. And the second one is self confidence.
So you have to know that you have something worthy
to offer, You have something that other women would probably
really love and appreciate. But if you're walking around here
(17:33):
hunched over and scared because secretly you don't think you
have anything to offer. Secretly you think you're going to
be exposed as a fraud, and all your messiness that's
going to keep you isolated in a hole. So as
soon as you can find a way to make other
people belong, be warm, and believe you have something worthy
to offer, you will attract the kind of friendships that
(17:54):
you've been dreaming of making.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
All these other friends and what they're like. But it's
so important for us to ensure that we can also
be a good friend in return when we find them.
I love that you mentioned that and made sure that
it's not just about the person on the other end.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
It's also about what's going on inside of you.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
It really is. It's so surprising sometimes to figure out, like,
oh my gosh, how much of your personal stuff you
bring to your friendships, because it's not just about having fun.
So let's say you do make friends with somebody, but
you're not self assured. You might tolerate mistreatment because you're
not sure you think, like, well, I guess it's better
than having no friends. So being confident helps you have
healthy friendships. When you're in them, you won't tolerate mistreatment.
(18:30):
You'll be more willing to be like generous and be
a giver without wondering, well, how will that make me? Look,
and I don't want to be taking advantage of it.
You just like operate from a place of just confidence.
You go for it. So if you want to have
fun and a good time and secure relationships, you do
have to really believe that you're worthy. So I think
if I knew that younger and I wasn't in a
(18:50):
place of insecurity or doing little things to fit in.
And so I think the sooner girls can get that
lesson that you have something to offer. I think eventually
we'll all be better for it.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yes, Oh, such an important message. Thank you so much,
and thank you for sharing your expertise on all of this.
As much as we like to say we have it
all figured out, we don't, and it's really good to
have tools to keep figuring it out.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
So thank you, oh, thank you for creating a space
for us to have this conversation. It's so important.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
If you would like to see the work Danielle is
doing with friendships, she has a podcast called the friend
Forward Podcast, and you can find all of her stuff
at Betterfemale Friendships dot com. I've made some amazing friends
(19:43):
in my thirty years of life, and one of my
best friends who I've made an.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Adulthood is Jillian Whitefield.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
We've been friends going on almost five years now, and
I brought her on to talk about our friendship and
how we met.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Hey, Joe, I'm so excited to have you on and
be your first podcast.
Speaker 5 (19:59):
I'm so excited be here. Thank you for asking me.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Of course, I had a female friendship coach on right
before you, named Danielle, and she gave so much insight
into just friendships in general as adults. You and I
met through some mutual friends, which was kind of a
chance meeting in itself. Yes, but I wanted you to
share our friendship story from your perspective.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
It's kind of funny we became friends so quickly. I
feel like when we first met, it was just like
we instantly clicked. And I think that there's some things
about our personalities that are different, but we just instantly
became the best of friends.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
It's funny because we really kind of.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Met during the start of COVID when everything hit, and
I just remember, like one of my favorite memories with
you was I would stay at your house so much
that first summer that we became friends that it almost
felt like we were sisters right away. So yeah, we
just kind of instantly bonded, and I think that's definitely rare,
(20:56):
you know, when you make friendships later on in life
as an adult.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
I think it's.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Funny you mentioned that you moved in with me too,
because I love living by myself, but living with you too.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
In a way.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
We didn't live together, but you were over here often
enough that I consider that we lived together for a
few months there, and I really enjoyed having you here,
which is saying a lot.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yeah in itself.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, it was like not planned, It just kind of
fell into place, and yeah, our friendship kind of started
from there.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
It was awesome.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
And speaking of the first time that we met and
just our friendship story in general, when you first met me,
what was going through your brain?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Did you think of anything about me that stuck out
to you?
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Honestly, Morgan, I feel like so many people would say
this about you. You exude a confidence about you, but
you are not intimidating in that way. You, I think,
make friends so quickly and people instantly let their guard
down with you, And that's what you know, At least
for me, I felt like we became friends so quickly,
(21:55):
But I think you just kind of exuded this confidence,
but you're also fun. When this maybe sounds a little
but I feel like you are always down for an
adventure and you just have that adventurous side of you,
which I love because I'm naturally a little bit more introverted.
So that was probably my first impression of you, and
I feel like it still holds true. Oh.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
I love that it was a good one. You know,
sometimes they can be bad, so I'm glad that one
was good, and mine of yours was very good too.
The immediate reaction that I had was you were this sweet, innocent,
little ball of sunshine. You smiled often, and you were
really polite, and you were just really kind, and you
more than anything, exuded so much kindness about you, and
(22:34):
I was maybe.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
We could be friends. I'm not sure. Yeah, she so
introverted that we couldn't be friends.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
And then I learned quickly that you weren't. But that
was a great first impression for you too. What is
the most fun memory? You mentioned some of our times
hanging out together. We kind of locked down together during COVID.
What is one of your most fun memories of ours?
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah, okay, I have so many, and a couple just
came to mind, But honestly, one of my favorites was
just when we had like a game night at your
house and we had a couple people over and it
was kind of a not like our normal just small
friend group, but it was just a wider group and
we had game night, we drank wine and had snacks
and it was just fun and like a chill night.
(23:16):
And then I think there was another night where we
did like a whole charcuterie board situation on your kitchen
counter and like took up the whole island.
Speaker 5 (23:24):
That was such a fun night. So it's like fun
nights in like that. I mean, obviously we've.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Had, you know, nights where we've gone out and done
other things, but yeah, that probably stands out.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I will mention the one night that we went out
that I really love and will forever stand memory for me.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
We went to a rooftop here.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
In Nashville, and it was you and I and one
of our other friends, Jody, and it.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Was this night.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yes, it was my favorite night out because it was
just the three of us.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
We were having the best time.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
All of us were in great moods, no reason, we
really plan, Yeah, we were just rolling with it, and
we ended up staying at that rooftop pretty much all
night and we just danced away.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
We didn't care who was around us.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
We were having fun conversations and we've had so many
adventures in so many great times together, but that one
will always stick.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Out for me in our friendship.
Speaker 5 (24:10):
Yes, I know exactly the one you're talking about. That
was great, great time.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I mean there's more. We could sit here all day
and remember our memories.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
What are some qualities that you look for in a
really solid friendship as an adult?
Speaker 5 (24:21):
Definitely? I think you know.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
First is probably just that that loyalty, and I guess
that's obviously established longer term, but instantly, when I'm meeting
someone and you kind of think, can I be friends
with this person? It's I think that sense of honesty, authenticity.
People use words like that all the time, but you know,
you just kind of know when you click with someone
and when you feel like they're being real with you.
Speaker 5 (24:43):
So I feel like just a truthful.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Friend, someone that encourages you, someone that also challenges you
in your weaker moments or areas, and then just someone
who's loyal who sticks around through thick and thin.
Speaker 5 (24:55):
That really makes a huge difference.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Loyalty has always been a really strong one for you
in friendships and relationships.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
Yes, I would say my friends across the board.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
If I looked at my really solid I say, I
have really good, deep friends, and then I have good
friends who I can always hang out with, and then
I have surface level friends, different tiers of friendships.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
I get that.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
And with all of my great deep connection friends, there's
two qualities that I find in all of them. They
always show up whenever it's just to hang out or
I need them or they need me. We just show
up for each other. And then the other one is
that they're always up for anything.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Yes, and those are two.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Of your qualities. You're in that group of my great friends.
And I have about five of them that I would
consider in that group. And those are two really strong
qualities that you guys are all so different, but those
are two qualities that each of you have.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
We do.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
We all have different personalities.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
It's interesting, but absolutely yes, once you make friends with me,
I'd like to hope that.
Speaker 5 (25:51):
You know your friends for life. So here we are.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
That is the goal.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
And we have been going strong and it continues to grow.
Also adult friendships are hard. I love looking at our
friendship because we did become friends as adults younger twenties.
However you want to classify that, I classify us as adults.
We were very grown up, mature women, and they're hard.
You're actively busy in your life with work, with all
(26:15):
these priorities you have in friendship sometimes falls to the
back burner. But I'm really lucky in that I've made
a lot of great adult friendships outside of our friendship
and how the mutual friends kind of chance meeting happened
for us. What were some ways that you've made good
friends as an adult, because you are someone I consider
who just keeps going and putting herself out there with friends.
Speaker 5 (26:38):
That's a great question.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
I think that when I look at my friend groups,
I have friends in a lot of different areas, and
I think some of that is attributed to I've worked
in two different industries, you know. I started off working
in the music industry. Now I work in healthcare.
Speaker 5 (26:52):
Very very different.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
But yeah, I'd like to think that I do just
kind of put myself out there. I'm open to meeting
all sorts of different people, whether that's at work, whether
that's through church, or if it's just through community or
different events social things. I try to be in a
lot of different areas, and that's where you meet different
people and all different sorts of backgrounds.
Speaker 5 (27:13):
So I think that that's probably the first key.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
You know, you can't make friends if you're staying at
home and isolating.
Speaker 5 (27:19):
So that's probably, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
The way I've gone about it, at least recently, particularly
having to be intentional about it since COVID.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
You are very good about always socializing, especially on the
weekends when you're out, and about if you had to
give someone a piece of advice when they're looking for
friends and they're actively going out, what's the one thing
you would tell them to make sure to do.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
I think that when I think about, Okay, who are
the types of people that I want to surround myself
with and who are the friends that I want to find,
I try to think, Okay, where would those types of
people be? So are they going to be out at
a restaurant? Are they going to be at, you know,
like a happy hour on Wednesday? Are they going to
be Just kind of have to think about like the
places that they're going to be and then show up
(28:00):
to those places. Again, it kind of comes down to
putting yourself out there and then being kind, being friendly,
and asking open questions. I think so many times we
go out and we're like, Okay, how am I presenting myself?
Speaker 5 (28:11):
And how do I look in all of that?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
But really it's putting that focus outward and really being
intentional again with the conversations that you have with the
people that you meet, and being open.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Do you think you're at a point in your life
now where you have enough great friends or are you
always looking for more friendships?
Speaker 5 (28:27):
I'm always looking for more friendships.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean I think there's something to be
said about you have your small group of friends, and
the older you get, sometimes the smaller your friend groups get,
just because again I keep using the word intentional, but
you want to have those meaningful I'll say relationships, But
I'm always open to new friendships and meeting new people
and creating those relationships.
Speaker 5 (28:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Well, you're a really great friend to me. I know,
you're just a great person all the way around, which
is why I wanted you to come on board this episode.
I want to ask you some rapid fire fun questions
now that we've got and all vulnerable.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
And shared our hearts with y'all. Okay, Jillian, what is
your life motto or mantra?
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Gosh, there's so many that are coming to mind, but
I think probably treat others the way that you want
to be treated.
Speaker 3 (29:12):
The Golden rule.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
I believe the golden rule.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Yeah, treat others the way you want to be treated.
So much of that is obviously just empathy. I try
to think ahead of how my actions will affect or
impact others, and the way that I plan, the way
that I think, the words that I say. I think
that words carry so much weight. They can also be
such a blessing to others. So I think, yeah, just
treating others the way you want to be treated and
being conscious of that.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
You live that already. That makes sense. That's your life motto.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
How do you want people to feel whenever they're around you?
Speaker 3 (29:41):
What's your hope?
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Interesting that you say hope, because that is what I
would hope to give others. I would love to when
I'm around others, for them to feel like they can
also let their guard down with me, and to really know,
you know, I have your best.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
Interest in mind.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Maybe I don't know you, but I you know, would
love to know you and give others sense of hope
because there is so much that is going on in
the world. There's a lot that's heavy, and so I
hope that my friendship is light and that people feel
that they can be themselves around me.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
You do that, you already do a really great job
of that.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
You don't have to hope at all.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I promise if you could choose one thing that would
make the world better, what would you choose?
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Oh gosh, probably goes back to kindness again. Thinking ahead,
thinking the actions that I'm taking and what I'm doing,
how is that going to impact someone else? Or how
can I help someone else? You know, I go through
my day and I'm thinking, Okay, I got to check
this off and check this off, and I have my list,
and we have so much of our routines that we do,
but sometimes it's stopping and thinking, you know, how can
(30:41):
I really help others and impact them? Like I'll give
a really quick example, but yesterday I think I was
at FedEx and I was supposed to pick up something
there for work, and long story short, it was delayed
and they said can you wait thirty minutes?
Speaker 5 (30:52):
And I didn't really have that time.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
And I said, you know, in my head, this is
an opportunity where I can be kind and I can
be patient and not rush this person, and it ended
up being fine. So sometimes just having that patience I
think goes a long way.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
You also have that you're talking about all these qualities
and these are things that you also have, which I
think is cool in itself. My last one for you,
what does getting out of your comfort zone look like?
Speaker 3 (31:14):
For you?
Speaker 2 (31:15):
You mention, I make sure we go on a lot
of adventures and stuff. If you had a comfort zone
and you were getting out of it, what would that
look like?
Speaker 1 (31:21):
I think probably for me, I am naturally somewhat introverted,
so I'm great at one on one conversations. So me
getting out of my comfort zone is probably just being
in a larger group of people that I don't know
and still feeling comfortable, you know, speaking up and this
is who I am, and probably initiating those conversations. I
love social events and being around larger groups. But that's
(31:43):
probably me getting out of my comfort zone for sure.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I think a lot of people can relate to that.
I had so much fun talking to you, getting to
know you so far. Further on, a deeper level, even
though you're one of my best friends.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Something about podcast intimacy is a real thing.
Speaker 5 (31:59):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Yeah, well, thank you having me.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, thank you for coming on so much girlpower on
the podcast this week. Guys, don't worry, this advice can
also pertain to you, so I hope you also got
something out of it. As always, be sure to hit
up the podcast on Instagram at Take This Personally, follow it,
leave some comments, let me know how you're feeling about
the podcast, or write in the email if you have
an idea for a guest or a topic. Take This
(32:22):
Personally podcast at gmail dot com. Next week, I'm bringing
on doctor Amy Tran to talk all about trauma from
childhood and unresolved trauma and how to decipher between feeling
or fact. And then I'll share a little personal journal
entry with you all and some things I needed to
learn from my time growing up. That's all for now.
Talk to you guys next week.
Host
Morgan Huelsman
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