August 6, 2024 • 29 mins
Join @thebuzzknight for this episode of Takin A Walk with founding member of the classic rock band Blue Oyster Cult Buck Dharma.
If you have questions or comments write Buzz@buzzknightmedia.com
Connect with Buzz on Twitter @TheBuzzKnight and Instagram @takinawalkpodcast.
Like this show? Leave us a review here. Review
Support the show: https://takinawalk.com/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I've lived my life with very little planning as far
as you know, or intention actually even you know, I
would say that all I've done in my whole life
is just steeing doors open and walking through them. And
that's basically what it is.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome to the Taking a Walk Podcast with your host
Buzz Night. Buzz speaks with musicians talking about their latest
projects and their inspirations and their stories behind the music. Today,
Buzz speaks with the legendary guitarist for Blue Oyster Cult,
Buck Dharma. Buzz Night speaks with Buck about his latest
work and walk down memory lane with his great career.
(00:42):
Here's Buzz Night with Buck Dharma now on Taking a Walk.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Well, thanks for being on Taking a Walk, Buck Dharma,
I want to ask you out of the gate, did
you ever have a plan b if you weren't going
to be a musician.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I wasn't taking that far ahead. I assumed when we
got a recording contract that if you follow the arc
of most artists careers, you know, they make two or
three albums and then they do something else for the
rest of their life. And at least that was my impression,
you know, and at every increment of Blue Oyster Cults history.
(01:21):
The record company would make allow us to make another record, So,
you know, we made the first record, we made the
second record, a third record, and the fourth that was
our first goal record, on your Feet Around your Knees
live record, and then we made Agents of Fortune and Specters,
which went platinum. And so I didn't really think about it,
(01:47):
you know, in the in the eighties, when we stopped
playing arenas and things like that, you know, I thought
about doing other stuff, but we were doing very well
just performing live, so it didn't occur to me to
really change gears. I think if if I failed early on,
(02:09):
I would have gone into recording engineering and production, because
I've always enjoyed that part of it, you know, and
I know a lot of artists did. In fact, if
you talked to a lot of record producers, they were
originally artists themselves and got into the production side.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Can you take us inside the audition that you did
for Clive Davis?
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Have you heard about that.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I think there's a little bit of a notorious story involved.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah. Yeah, you know, we made demos for several companies
in New York. A band was New York based and
we made one for Columbia, and when it came time
to make a decision on signing us, we auditioned for
Clive in the then CBS office building on sixth Avenue
(03:05):
in and fifty second Street. Actually it was like forty
eighth Street. Forty yeah, forty eighth Street, it was fifty
second was what the studios were. And they call it
black Rock. And because it was a black granite building
in a conference room which is not really that big,
you know, had a big table in it which was
(03:26):
moved to the side on its edge, and the band
set up at one end and there were some chairs
at the other end, and Clive came in and he
brought with him Harry Nilsen and Bobby Columbie, the drummer
of Blood, Sweat and Tears, and we played four songs
(03:48):
I think for them, you know, And you know this,
I wouldn't say that they were an enthusiastic audience, you know,
I think, you know, we were we were going over
I guess, but again, you know, they weren't jumping up
and down. And at one point Harry Nielsen gets up
(04:09):
and he walks out of the room, and we're thinking
that he doesn't like it. So when it was over
and he said, oh, thanks very much, boys, we'll get
back to you, you know, And we had a conversation
with Harry later on. He said, no, no, I liked
you guys. I told Clive to sign you. I just
why does this have to have a cigarette? That's all?
Speaker 3 (04:34):
How nerve wracking?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, it was, you know, it was a little tactic,
but you know he did. He did sign us, you know,
and he never brags about us when he talks about
the artists he science. But that's okay, you know, he
can he can talk about Whitney Houston. You know, Lorisa
called that that's a munch.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I mean, I wonder if he really knew though that
he was signing a piece of you know, music history, right.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I think probably everything he did is just oracle in
one way or another. But no, I you know, I
applaud Columbia for sticking with us and letting us build
our audience. And I think at that time that was
the way they did business. You know, they they signed
artists to like seven record deals, you know, out of
(05:21):
the gate, you know, they kept it tied up. But
on the other side of that coin is that if
they believed in you they would continue to back you,
you know, even even if you didn't go platinum the
first time. And obviously later on the business changed to
the point where you know, you had one shot to
succeed and then you'd be gone if you didn't.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
You know, was Clide hands on after the signing.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Uh, not so much. It might have been better if
you was, but but no, we had real, real autonomy
with the with the record company. They let us do
what we wanted to.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
And I remember, as somebody who was on the radio side,
they always had a really tremendous promotion staff that worked,
you know, rock music. I think they really knew their
craft and they were passionate about it.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yes, that was demonstrated by when Don't Fit the Reaper
broke out at radio and it sort of just bubbled up.
It wasn't even a single, you know, became a single.
But when that happened, the Columbia muscle was evident. You know,
they could get the albums into record stores and move
(06:37):
them through retail, you know, so that was impressive.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Was it a geographic breakout? First it was its first
East Coast and then it sort of worked its way
across the country. In terms of popularity for the.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Band, not to my recollection. I think once the song
was added at aoor radio album radio, FM radio, and
it just sort of was an organic thing that everybody
picked up on. And then the single got to be
It got to be nine on cash Box and I
(07:11):
think eleven on Billboard, eleven or twelve, you know, so,
and it didn't get higher because it never got added
on New York radio of all places. We were a
New York band, and you know, to BBC said, nah,
I we're not playing that song.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
How fascinating that would have been.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
You know, that would have been top ten if it
would have done that. You know, yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I didn't realize that.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I think the programmer was Rick Square, if I remember anyway,
you know, I is a song about a reaper. I
don't think so.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
You know, So, what was the first moment you realized
that you were hooked on music in your life?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I always liked music as a kid. My dad was
a horn player. He played sax and clarinet and a flute,
and he always worked weekends and he played in combo bands,
you know, four piece, five piece. He worked clubs and
he played weddings and did things like that. You know,
(08:17):
he had a day job. He was in the defense industry,
but he used to take me on gigs when I
was a kid. You know, I would just sit there
and drink a ginger ale and really really you know,
listen to the music and dig it. And I played
accordion when I was nine years old. Took it for
about a year, and then I didn't really think I
(08:41):
was the according was that cool? So techo I was
a drummer later on when as a teenager. And I
started playing guitar when I was about fifteen. And when
I started guitar, I didn't look back.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
What was the first guitar you bought?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
First guitar I had was a freemire to pick up,
no cutaway sort of jazz box that my dad had found,
you know, one of his compadres had it, you know,
and it was not really a rock instrument, and it
looked to me like you know, you know the Mexican
guitar owns that based the bass guitar or the big
(09:18):
thick body that sort of looked like on me because
I'm a little guy, you know. So I played that
for a while and then my second guitar was a
hackst Frum Fender stratocaster copy.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
And who then were the guitarists that you looked up to?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I was playing surf music, so it was all the
surf bands, you know, the Safaris, the Chanteys, the Beach Boys.
But we're playing instrumentals pretty much, not not a little
bit of vocals, but in my high school band, you know,
but that's what we're doing. So anybody with you know,
(09:54):
the ventures a huge influence, you know, anybody that played
Fender guitars and then Fender you know, that was where
we're at.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
And what was the first concert that you ever attended?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
The first one I ever went to was rather late
in my life. It must have been it must have
been eighteen at the time. It never occurred to me
to go see music live. I was very much into recordings.
But it was it was the Young Rascals and the
Beau Brummels and the Seeds, Sky's Accent and the Seeds and.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Pushing too hard, Pushing too hard.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, And that was the bill. It was all three
of those acts. And then they were all great, you know,
And it was in it was in a large club.
It was like a dance hall in Suffolk County, So
that was and of course seeing bands live just opened
my mind to that. And after that I became a
big fan of live music.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
And what was the first album that you remember ever buying?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
The Ventures? Walke Don't run the Ventures? Yeah, I bought
the single and the LP. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
So when you think of your hall of fame of guitarists,
that really made an impact and still impact you to
this day. Who is in Buck Dharmer's guitar Hall of Fame?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Well, first of all, more than you can mention many,
many many, you know, certainly the when I was learning
it was it was the surface to menalists. You know.
It's funny. Dick Dale was not big on on the
East Coast like he was on the West coast. But
you know, he would have been mentioned if if I
(11:44):
had heard him. But it was you know, who was
ever playing on the Beach Boys record? I thought it
was Carl Wilson, but it was probably Tommy Didsco or
somebody like that, or even Glenn Campbell. It could have
been you know, I don't know who played those parts,
but you know, but it was sort of like Chuck
Berry has filtered through the Beach Boys, you know that
that kind of stuff. So obviously, Chuck Berry, we were
(12:07):
very influenced by the early psychedelic bands. You know. Robbie
Krieger's a big influence on me, you know, the Jerry Garcia,
very big, you know, through the Grateful Ded and of
course Jefferson Airplane and Quicksilver Messenger Service, all those guys,
(12:27):
you know, and all the English guitar players which are
playing the American Chicago blues players. You know, so sort
of got around to the Chicago blues men through the
early English guys who were covering that stuff, the Stones
and Jeff Beck and you know all those guys. Clapton,
(12:49):
Richie Blackmore, very important stylist, you know, I mean, all
of There's so many great players, you know, it's it's
one of my favorite players now is Robin Ford. You know,
I think he's awesome. Tommy Emmanuel is an acoustic player,
but he plays a great electric too. You know, there's
there's too many great players to mention. You just feel
(13:11):
bad for leaving anybody out, but they're all good.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I think. What's amazing thinking about the soft white underbelly,
which was obviously you know before Blue oyster cult. It
was really like a like a psychedelic jam band, wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, I would say we would be called a jam band,
you know, if if we could be transported to you know,
that era.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
So take us inside a couple of sessions if you can.
First of all, don't fear the Reaper. What do you
remember about that session? I know there was a lot
of prep beforehand that into it, so you didn't really
waste studio time and we're really you know, on top
of it. But bring us inside what you remember of
that session with the kind of guitar you used, and
(14:11):
what it was like creating that.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
We were always pretty prepared before we went the studio,
and the Age of Fortune record was the first one
where the band members had made pretty advanced or evolved
demos of the song as a writer before bringing it
to the band, because we had just gotten home four
(14:37):
track recorders, which previous to that no one could afford.
But when T came out with Theirs, we all had
gotten four track recorders. So the demo that I brought
in for the Reaper was was pretty well arranged so
that it was not too different than what the band recorded.
Of course, the band, you know, did its own thing
(14:57):
on it, but it's essentially this. The demo was out
on one of the box set type compilations of BOC
so you could compare him if you wanted to. The
iconic riff of the Reaper was recorded on Murray Krugman's
ES one seventy five Gibson, which is again a hollow
(15:21):
body with one cutaway two pickups, and it sounds unique
in that in the sense that that's not the guitar
I play it live and never have, so it's it
doesn't sound exactly like the record, but you get close.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Sorry, Elmer's barking in the background. There. There must be
a delivery guy coming to the house, so I'll try
I'll try to ignore his big vocal cords down there.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
So, yeah, we all worked from home, now, don't we.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Yeah, it's got to be a delivery. He thinks he's
the watchdog here.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Yeah, So how about taking us inside the session that
produced the great song Burning for You? What was that like?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Now? Burnard for You? It was a song that I
wrote intending to put it on my nineteen eighty one
solo record, Flat Out, And obviously it's Sandy Pelman, who
has managed us at the time and of course as
our mentor and chief lyricists for a lot of years.
(16:26):
He convinced me to let Blue Oyster Call recorded because
he thought it would be better served as a BOC song,
and he was probably right. So we made that recording
with Martin Birch. It was the second record we did
with Martin Birch producing and engineering, and I think he
(16:46):
did a great job of taking the taking the tune
and really bringing it home, you know, with the sound
and the performance.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
It must really make you feel great when you still
know those two songs in particular of course Godzilla too,
that they're you know, still part of our music culture today.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yeah, that's that's that's that's been gratifying as I see
what bloor is, the call stun ripple out into the
larger culture. You know, it's you know, it makes you
feel good.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
How many times a week does somebody come up to
you and say, hey, buck more cow bell?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
It's I think that's peaked. But there was a time
when when you couldn't get away from the cowboy and.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Did you see that in real time?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Not as not exactly. My wife's mom called us up
when it was on, saying because she was watching Hoturday night,
you know, and she said, turn on Saturday right now.
Of course I saw it pretty shortly thereafter. I don't
know who had it recorded. It was really the beginning
of the VHS era.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
I promise anybody, if you're ever in a bad mood
and you want to put yourself in a good mood,
just watch that because it's it's guaranteed to lift your
spirits every time.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
It's it's still funny, you know, and for that I'm grateful.
You know. We just did an interview with the Peacock
Channel that's doing a special on SNL this summer, and
it's going to be four episodes and one episode is
devoted to the Cabo sketch, you know. So it's amazing
(18:30):
that it has endured because it's been a lot of
years since that was aired.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
So throughout the touring career, the robust years of touring
that were part of that grind. What were some of
your favorite concert venues to play.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
We were very popular up and down the West coast,
like from Seattle to San Diego. That's sort of where
we you know, had our arena era and once one
the Reaper was a head. You know, we went into
the big rooms, and the Midwest is always good for us. Ironically,
we did okay in New York, but being a New
(19:09):
York band was never an advantage, you know, for us.
I would say, you know, and I just like to
go to places that are nice places. I enjoy that,
you know, I like going overseas, like going to Hawaii,
like going to New Orleans, and like Chicago, and you know,
it's not really that much different one place or another.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
And how about some of the favorite bands that you
toured with over the years that you really enjoyed either
just you know, being with or you know, sharing audiences with.
Who were some of the bands?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, you know, in those days, I think the bands
are a lot more competitive with each other in terms
of personal relationships. Nowadays, everybody's good buddies, you know. I
think anyone who's survived and is still out there is
very cordial and friendly, and of course anyone that's still
doing it. You know, I pretty much know at this
(20:07):
point and at the time, I think we had the
best time and closest personal relationship with Nazareth. Nazareth and
the Scottish band. You know, they were great guys, still are.
There's only one original left now but Pte Age, But
there were great fellaws. We had to some wonderful times together.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
So I know, with some stuff that you've been involved
with and the band's been involved with, the use of
artificial intelligence was involved to sort of, you know, help
in the process there. Maybe you can talk about that
a little bit, how that benefited that process and overall
(20:48):
what your feelings are on AI and music.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I think you're specifically talking about the ghost Stories record,
which is our latest release, and the AI tools were
used to deconstruct stereo mixes of pre production sessions that
enabled us to augment and add to recordings that were
basically done in the time period nineteen seventy nine to
(21:16):
about eighty four. That's the same tools that Peter Jackson
used on the Beatles recordings. And of course it's amazing
what AI can do in just about every field. Now
it's inescapable. You know, that's another horse you have to
ride in the direction it's going. I think I think
(21:40):
the ability to construct music instantly in any genre or
whatever is it's going to probably make obsolete a lot
of a lot of the incidental music for videos, that
kind of thing. As far as creativity, I don't. I
(22:02):
think it's it could be useful to humans, you know,
and cut down a lot of the the grunt work
of making music. But I don't think that computers are
going to create stuff that's that really nails what people
(22:23):
identify with in a song that that's popular. You know,
I could be wrong, but I have yet to see it.
You know, everything sounds generic. I know. I asked chat
Gpt sort of early on to write a Blueyster Cullt
lyric and what it came up with, I mean, had
some of the vernacular and some of the some of
(22:45):
the basic themes, but it was nothing like any Bloyster
Cullt lyric. You know, just it wouldn't have made made
the cut, you know, if that song had been brought in,
you know, to the band, now, that's terrible. So again,
it's maybe as possible, but I've yet to see it.
And I think that you know, real real, you know,
(23:07):
feeling humans at the helm will will endure, you know,
when it comes to creative stuff.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
A human touch, a human connection, right.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Yeah, well, you know, I don't know if you know,
if the large language model AI is, you know, just
are trained on what has been in terms of songs, language,
you know, musical phrases, chord progressions. You know, as it is,
(23:38):
popular music is really narrow in terms of how many
chords get used and in what order. You know, most
of the most of the big hits, you know, follow
those same four chords that you know Journey used twenty
five thirty years ago. You know.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
So let's talk about some new music of yours. The
new song, the end of every song, great video, great song.
How did that song come about? And let's sort of
talk about it in today's terms of you know, I
think the starkness of the song that really struck me emotionally.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I was commissioned to write this song from a lyric
that was based on a poem by English poet Ernest
Christopher Dowson. He wrote. He only lived thirty two years.
He was not in good health, but he had a
fairly prolific output At that time. He was known for
(24:42):
coining the phrase gone with the wind and days of
wine and roses. So it's you know, his phrases anyway,
have been lifted by other creators for other stuff. The
poem is called Dregs and it was a forward in
a book written by Michael Moorcock. And Michael Moorcock is
(25:03):
a writer in mostly in the sci fi fantasy realm,
and he has provided lyrics for Us previously. Veteran of
the Psychic Wars is his words, and he's also written
for Hawkwind and currently he's his books are set to
(25:23):
music by a project called The Spirits Burning and they've
done several records of based on Morcock's writing. And I
wrote the song with the intention of The Spirits Burning
releasing it, and there's a version of my song. Of course.
(25:44):
I wrote the song that The Spirits Burning have completed.
And at the time I began this, I intended to
do my own version of it because I was I
thought that I had something to say here, you know,
through the through the words of Ernest Dowson. And that's
(26:05):
taken a few years to come to fruition, and here
it is. I just completed a video. I think that
what Dallison says here is it just strikes a chord
with the way people are feeling in twenty twenty four.
And I think it's I think the video touches on that,
(26:25):
and it's also sort of an overview of the arc
of my career from the beginning, the beginning of the
band till present day and looking forward. And there's a
lot to it, and I'm quite proud of it and
glad to see it out. It's the first thing that
I've done just my own since the Flat Out Record,
(26:48):
which is several decades ago.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Now, congratulations on it. It's really it's profound work.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Well, thank you. I'm glad you great it struck you,
because it certainly struck me. So far, the the jukebox
jury on it has been very strong.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
So fucking closing, knowing that collaboration is so critical for
bands to thrive and survive. Is there anything about collaboration
as you sort of think back on it that you
wish you learned or did differently.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
I've lived my life with very little planning as far
as you know, or intention Actually even you know, I
would say that all I've done my whole life is
just seeing doors open and walking through them. That's basically
what it is. I think if I'd been geographically closer
(27:44):
to some of the music cities like Los Angeles and
the seventies or you know, maybe Nashville in the nineties
or something. I would have, you know, collaborated with more people,
but I'm still open to it. I I enjoy working
with everybody. I enjoy playing with different people, even though
(28:05):
I haven't done too much of it. I'm good with
the I'm good with music. You know what can I say?
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Thanks for the music you continue to give us and
that you have given us. And thanks Buck for being
on Taking a Walk and walking down Memory Lane.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Okay, I just want to just plug the end of
every song again. There's there's a website the end of
everysong dot com. If you go there, you could see
the a story of the song, the entire credits. You know,
usually when you see a rock video, you don't really
know who did what, but you can find everything out there,
and it's it also has u There's a lot of
(28:44):
personalities in the song, in the song, in the video
that you know you want to know who it is.
They're all listed there.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Awesome. Thank you Buck.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Share this and episodes with your friends and
follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking a
Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and
wherever you get your podcasts.
Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I've lived my life with very little planning as far
as you know, or intention actually even you know, I
would say that all I've done in my whole life
is just steeing doors open and walking through them. And
that's basically what it is.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome to the Taking a Walk Podcast with your host
Buzz Night. Buzz speaks with musicians talking about their latest
projects and their inspirations and their stories behind the music. Today,
Buzz speaks with the legendary guitarist for Blue Oyster Cult,
Buck Dharma. Buzz Night speaks with Buck about his latest
work and walk down memory lane with his great career.
(00:42):
Here's Buzz Night with Buck Dharma now on Taking a Walk.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Well, thanks for being on Taking a Walk, Buck Dharma,
I want to ask you out of the gate, did
you ever have a plan b if you weren't going
to be a musician.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I wasn't taking that far ahead. I assumed when we
got a recording contract that if you follow the arc
of most artists careers, you know, they make two or
three albums and then they do something else for the
rest of their life. And at least that was my impression,
you know, and at every increment of Blue Oyster Cults history.
(01:21):
The record company would make allow us to make another record, So,
you know, we made the first record, we made the
second record, a third record, and the fourth that was
our first goal record, on your Feet Around your Knees
live record, and then we made Agents of Fortune and Specters,
which went platinum. And so I didn't really think about it,
(01:47):
you know, in the in the eighties, when we stopped
playing arenas and things like that, you know, I thought
about doing other stuff, but we were doing very well
just performing live, so it didn't occur to me to
really change gears. I think if if I failed early on,
(02:09):
I would have gone into recording engineering and production, because
I've always enjoyed that part of it, you know, and
I know a lot of artists did. In fact, if
you talked to a lot of record producers, they were
originally artists themselves and got into the production side.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Can you take us inside the audition that you did
for Clive Davis?
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Have you heard about that.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I think there's a little bit of a notorious story involved.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah. Yeah, you know, we made demos for several companies
in New York. A band was New York based and
we made one for Columbia, and when it came time
to make a decision on signing us, we auditioned for
Clive in the then CBS office building on sixth Avenue
(03:05):
in and fifty second Street. Actually it was like forty
eighth Street. Forty yeah, forty eighth Street, it was fifty
second was what the studios were. And they call it
black Rock. And because it was a black granite building
in a conference room which is not really that big,
you know, had a big table in it which was
(03:26):
moved to the side on its edge, and the band
set up at one end and there were some chairs
at the other end, and Clive came in and he
brought with him Harry Nilsen and Bobby Columbie, the drummer
of Blood, Sweat and Tears, and we played four songs
(03:48):
I think for them, you know, And you know this,
I wouldn't say that they were an enthusiastic audience, you know,
I think, you know, we were we were going over
I guess, but again, you know, they weren't jumping up
and down. And at one point Harry Nielsen gets up
(04:09):
and he walks out of the room, and we're thinking
that he doesn't like it. So when it was over
and he said, oh, thanks very much, boys, we'll get
back to you, you know, And we had a conversation
with Harry later on. He said, no, no, I liked
you guys. I told Clive to sign you. I just
why does this have to have a cigarette? That's all?
Speaker 3 (04:34):
How nerve wracking?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, it was, you know, it was a little tactic,
but you know he did. He did sign us, you know,
and he never brags about us when he talks about
the artists he science. But that's okay, you know, he
can he can talk about Whitney Houston. You know, Lorisa
called that that's a munch.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I mean, I wonder if he really knew though that
he was signing a piece of you know, music history, right.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
I think probably everything he did is just oracle in
one way or another. But no, I you know, I
applaud Columbia for sticking with us and letting us build
our audience. And I think at that time that was
the way they did business. You know, they they signed
artists to like seven record deals, you know, out of
(05:21):
the gate, you know, they kept it tied up. But
on the other side of that coin is that if
they believed in you they would continue to back you,
you know, even even if you didn't go platinum the
first time. And obviously later on the business changed to
the point where you know, you had one shot to
succeed and then you'd be gone if you didn't.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
You know, was Clide hands on after the signing.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Uh, not so much. It might have been better if
you was, but but no, we had real, real autonomy
with the with the record company. They let us do
what we wanted to.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
And I remember, as somebody who was on the radio side,
they always had a really tremendous promotion staff that worked,
you know, rock music. I think they really knew their
craft and they were passionate about it.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Yes, that was demonstrated by when Don't Fit the Reaper
broke out at radio and it sort of just bubbled up.
It wasn't even a single, you know, became a single.
But when that happened, the Columbia muscle was evident. You know,
they could get the albums into record stores and move
(06:37):
them through retail, you know, so that was impressive.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
Was it a geographic breakout? First it was its first
East Coast and then it sort of worked its way
across the country. In terms of popularity for the.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Band, not to my recollection. I think once the song
was added at aoor radio album radio, FM radio, and
it just sort of was an organic thing that everybody
picked up on. And then the single got to be
It got to be nine on cash Box and I
(07:11):
think eleven on Billboard, eleven or twelve, you know, so,
and it didn't get higher because it never got added
on New York radio of all places. We were a
New York band, and you know, to BBC said, nah,
I we're not playing that song.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
How fascinating that would have been.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
You know, that would have been top ten if it
would have done that. You know, yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I didn't realize that.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I think the programmer was Rick Square, if I remember anyway,
you know, I is a song about a reaper. I
don't think so.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
You know, So, what was the first moment you realized
that you were hooked on music in your life?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
I always liked music as a kid. My dad was
a horn player. He played sax and clarinet and a flute,
and he always worked weekends and he played in combo bands,
you know, four piece, five piece. He worked clubs and
he played weddings and did things like that. You know,
(08:17):
he had a day job. He was in the defense industry,
but he used to take me on gigs when I
was a kid. You know, I would just sit there
and drink a ginger ale and really really you know,
listen to the music and dig it. And I played
accordion when I was nine years old. Took it for
about a year, and then I didn't really think I
(08:41):
was the according was that cool? So techo I was
a drummer later on when as a teenager. And I
started playing guitar when I was about fifteen. And when
I started guitar, I didn't look back.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
What was the first guitar you bought?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
First guitar I had was a freemire to pick up,
no cutaway sort of jazz box that my dad had found,
you know, one of his compadres had it, you know,
and it was not really a rock instrument, and it
looked to me like you know, you know the Mexican
guitar owns that based the bass guitar or the big
(09:18):
thick body that sort of looked like on me because
I'm a little guy, you know. So I played that
for a while and then my second guitar was a
hackst Frum Fender stratocaster copy.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
And who then were the guitarists that you looked up to?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I was playing surf music, so it was all the
surf bands, you know, the Safaris, the Chanteys, the Beach Boys.
But we're playing instrumentals pretty much, not not a little
bit of vocals, but in my high school band, you know,
but that's what we're doing. So anybody with you know,
(09:54):
the ventures a huge influence, you know, anybody that played
Fender guitars and then Fender you know, that was where
we're at.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
And what was the first concert that you ever attended?
Speaker 2 (10:07):
The first one I ever went to was rather late
in my life. It must have been it must have
been eighteen at the time. It never occurred to me
to go see music live. I was very much into recordings.
But it was it was the Young Rascals and the
Beau Brummels and the Seeds, Sky's Accent and the Seeds and.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Pushing too hard, Pushing too hard.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, And that was the bill. It was all three
of those acts. And then they were all great, you know,
And it was in it was in a large club.
It was like a dance hall in Suffolk County, So
that was and of course seeing bands live just opened
my mind to that. And after that I became a
big fan of live music.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
And what was the first album that you remember ever buying?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
The Ventures? Walke Don't run the Ventures? Yeah, I bought
the single and the LP. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
So when you think of your hall of fame of guitarists,
that really made an impact and still impact you to
this day. Who is in Buck Dharmer's guitar Hall of Fame?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Well, first of all, more than you can mention many,
many many, you know, certainly the when I was learning
it was it was the surface to menalists. You know.
It's funny. Dick Dale was not big on on the
East Coast like he was on the West coast. But
you know, he would have been mentioned if if I
(11:44):
had heard him. But it was you know, who was
ever playing on the Beach Boys record? I thought it
was Carl Wilson, but it was probably Tommy Didsco or
somebody like that, or even Glenn Campbell. It could have
been you know, I don't know who played those parts,
but you know, but it was sort of like Chuck
Berry has filtered through the Beach Boys, you know that
that kind of stuff. So obviously, Chuck Berry, we were
(12:07):
very influenced by the early psychedelic bands. You know. Robbie
Krieger's a big influence on me, you know, the Jerry Garcia,
very big, you know, through the Grateful Ded and of
course Jefferson Airplane and Quicksilver Messenger Service, all those guys,
(12:27):
you know, and all the English guitar players which are
playing the American Chicago blues players. You know, so sort
of got around to the Chicago blues men through the
early English guys who were covering that stuff, the Stones
and Jeff Beck and you know all those guys. Clapton,
(12:49):
Richie Blackmore, very important stylist, you know, I mean, all
of There's so many great players, you know, it's it's
one of my favorite players now is Robin Ford. You know,
I think he's awesome. Tommy Emmanuel is an acoustic player,
but he plays a great electric too. You know, there's
there's too many great players to mention. You just feel
(13:11):
bad for leaving anybody out, but they're all good.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
I think. What's amazing thinking about the soft white underbelly,
which was obviously you know before Blue oyster cult. It
was really like a like a psychedelic jam band, wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, I would say we would be called a jam band,
you know, if if we could be transported to you know,
that era.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
So take us inside a couple of sessions if you can.
First of all, don't fear the Reaper. What do you
remember about that session? I know there was a lot
of prep beforehand that into it, so you didn't really
waste studio time and we're really you know, on top
of it. But bring us inside what you remember of
that session with the kind of guitar you used, and
(14:11):
what it was like creating that.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
We were always pretty prepared before we went the studio,
and the Age of Fortune record was the first one
where the band members had made pretty advanced or evolved
demos of the song as a writer before bringing it
to the band, because we had just gotten home four
(14:37):
track recorders, which previous to that no one could afford.
But when T came out with Theirs, we all had
gotten four track recorders. So the demo that I brought
in for the Reaper was was pretty well arranged so
that it was not too different than what the band recorded.
Of course, the band, you know, did its own thing
(14:57):
on it, but it's essentially this. The demo was out
on one of the box set type compilations of BOC
so you could compare him if you wanted to. The
iconic riff of the Reaper was recorded on Murray Krugman's
ES one seventy five Gibson, which is again a hollow
(15:21):
body with one cutaway two pickups, and it sounds unique
in that in the sense that that's not the guitar
I play it live and never have, so it's it
doesn't sound exactly like the record, but you get close.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Sorry, Elmer's barking in the background. There. There must be
a delivery guy coming to the house, so I'll try
I'll try to ignore his big vocal cords down there.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
So, yeah, we all worked from home, now, don't we.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Yeah, it's got to be a delivery. He thinks he's
the watchdog here.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Yeah, So how about taking us inside the session that
produced the great song Burning for You? What was that like?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Now? Burnard for You? It was a song that I
wrote intending to put it on my nineteen eighty one
solo record, Flat Out, And obviously it's Sandy Pelman, who
has managed us at the time and of course as
our mentor and chief lyricists for a lot of years.
(16:26):
He convinced me to let Blue Oyster Call recorded because
he thought it would be better served as a BOC song,
and he was probably right. So we made that recording
with Martin Birch. It was the second record we did
with Martin Birch producing and engineering, and I think he
(16:46):
did a great job of taking the taking the tune
and really bringing it home, you know, with the sound
and the performance.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
It must really make you feel great when you still
know those two songs in particular of course Godzilla too,
that they're you know, still part of our music culture today.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yeah, that's that's that's that's been gratifying as I see
what bloor is, the call stun ripple out into the
larger culture. You know, it's you know, it makes you
feel good.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
How many times a week does somebody come up to
you and say, hey, buck more cow bell?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
It's I think that's peaked. But there was a time
when when you couldn't get away from the cowboy and.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Did you see that in real time?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Not as not exactly. My wife's mom called us up
when it was on, saying because she was watching Hoturday night,
you know, and she said, turn on Saturday right now.
Of course I saw it pretty shortly thereafter. I don't
know who had it recorded. It was really the beginning
of the VHS era.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
I promise anybody, if you're ever in a bad mood
and you want to put yourself in a good mood,
just watch that because it's it's guaranteed to lift your
spirits every time.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
It's it's still funny, you know, and for that I'm grateful.
You know. We just did an interview with the Peacock
Channel that's doing a special on SNL this summer, and
it's going to be four episodes and one episode is
devoted to the Cabo sketch, you know. So it's amazing
(18:30):
that it has endured because it's been a lot of
years since that was aired.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
So throughout the touring career, the robust years of touring
that were part of that grind. What were some of
your favorite concert venues to play.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
We were very popular up and down the West coast,
like from Seattle to San Diego. That's sort of where
we you know, had our arena era and once one
the Reaper was a head. You know, we went into
the big rooms, and the Midwest is always good for us. Ironically,
we did okay in New York, but being a New
(19:09):
York band was never an advantage, you know, for us.
I would say, you know, and I just like to
go to places that are nice places. I enjoy that,
you know, I like going overseas, like going to Hawaii,
like going to New Orleans, and like Chicago, and you know,
it's not really that much different one place or another.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
And how about some of the favorite bands that you
toured with over the years that you really enjoyed either
just you know, being with or you know, sharing audiences with.
Who were some of the bands?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, you know, in those days, I think the bands
are a lot more competitive with each other in terms
of personal relationships. Nowadays, everybody's good buddies, you know. I
think anyone who's survived and is still out there is
very cordial and friendly, and of course anyone that's still
doing it. You know, I pretty much know at this
(20:07):
point and at the time, I think we had the
best time and closest personal relationship with Nazareth. Nazareth and
the Scottish band. You know, they were great guys, still are.
There's only one original left now but Pte Age, But
there were great fellaws. We had to some wonderful times together.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
So I know, with some stuff that you've been involved
with and the band's been involved with, the use of
artificial intelligence was involved to sort of, you know, help
in the process there. Maybe you can talk about that
a little bit, how that benefited that process and overall
(20:48):
what your feelings are on AI and music.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I think you're specifically talking about the ghost Stories record,
which is our latest release, and the AI tools were
used to deconstruct stereo mixes of pre production sessions that
enabled us to augment and add to recordings that were
basically done in the time period nineteen seventy nine to
(21:16):
about eighty four. That's the same tools that Peter Jackson
used on the Beatles recordings. And of course it's amazing
what AI can do in just about every field. Now
it's inescapable. You know, that's another horse you have to
ride in the direction it's going. I think I think
(21:40):
the ability to construct music instantly in any genre or
whatever is it's going to probably make obsolete a lot
of a lot of the incidental music for videos, that
kind of thing. As far as creativity, I don't. I
(22:02):
think it's it could be useful to humans, you know,
and cut down a lot of the the grunt work
of making music. But I don't think that computers are
going to create stuff that's that really nails what people
(22:23):
identify with in a song that that's popular. You know,
I could be wrong, but I have yet to see it.
You know, everything sounds generic. I know. I asked chat
Gpt sort of early on to write a Blueyster Cullt
lyric and what it came up with, I mean, had
some of the vernacular and some of the some of
(22:45):
the basic themes, but it was nothing like any Bloyster
Cullt lyric. You know, just it wouldn't have made made
the cut, you know, if that song had been brought in,
you know, to the band, now, that's terrible. So again,
it's maybe as possible, but I've yet to see it.
And I think that you know, real real, you know,
(23:07):
feeling humans at the helm will will endure, you know,
when it comes to creative stuff.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
A human touch, a human connection, right.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Yeah, well, you know, I don't know if you know,
if the large language model AI is, you know, just
are trained on what has been in terms of songs, language,
you know, musical phrases, chord progressions. You know, as it is,
(23:38):
popular music is really narrow in terms of how many
chords get used and in what order. You know, most
of the most of the big hits, you know, follow
those same four chords that you know Journey used twenty
five thirty years ago. You know.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
So let's talk about some new music of yours. The
new song, the end of every song, great video, great song.
How did that song come about? And let's sort of
talk about it in today's terms of you know, I
think the starkness of the song that really struck me emotionally.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I was commissioned to write this song from a lyric
that was based on a poem by English poet Ernest
Christopher Dowson. He wrote. He only lived thirty two years.
He was not in good health, but he had a
fairly prolific output At that time. He was known for
(24:42):
coining the phrase gone with the wind and days of
wine and roses. So it's you know, his phrases anyway,
have been lifted by other creators for other stuff. The
poem is called Dregs and it was a forward in
a book written by Michael Moorcock. And Michael Moorcock is
(25:03):
a writer in mostly in the sci fi fantasy realm,
and he has provided lyrics for Us previously. Veteran of
the Psychic Wars is his words, and he's also written
for Hawkwind and currently he's his books are set to
(25:23):
music by a project called The Spirits Burning and they've
done several records of based on Morcock's writing. And I
wrote the song with the intention of The Spirits Burning
releasing it, and there's a version of my song. Of course.
(25:44):
I wrote the song that The Spirits Burning have completed.
And at the time I began this, I intended to
do my own version of it because I was I
thought that I had something to say here, you know,
through the through the words of Ernest Dowson. And that's
(26:05):
taken a few years to come to fruition, and here
it is. I just completed a video. I think that
what Dallison says here is it just strikes a chord
with the way people are feeling in twenty twenty four.
And I think it's I think the video touches on that,
(26:25):
and it's also sort of an overview of the arc
of my career from the beginning, the beginning of the
band till present day and looking forward. And there's a
lot to it, and I'm quite proud of it and
glad to see it out. It's the first thing that
I've done just my own since the Flat Out Record,
(26:48):
which is several decades ago.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Now, congratulations on it. It's really it's profound work.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Well, thank you. I'm glad you great it struck you,
because it certainly struck me. So far, the the jukebox
jury on it has been very strong.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
So fucking closing, knowing that collaboration is so critical for
bands to thrive and survive. Is there anything about collaboration
as you sort of think back on it that you
wish you learned or did differently.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
I've lived my life with very little planning as far
as you know, or intention Actually even you know, I
would say that all I've done my whole life is
just seeing doors open and walking through them. That's basically
what it is. I think if I'd been geographically closer
(27:44):
to some of the music cities like Los Angeles and
the seventies or you know, maybe Nashville in the nineties
or something. I would have, you know, collaborated with more people,
but I'm still open to it. I I enjoy working
with everybody. I enjoy playing with different people, even though
(28:05):
I haven't done too much of it. I'm good with
the I'm good with music. You know what can I say?
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Thanks for the music you continue to give us and
that you have given us. And thanks Buck for being
on Taking a Walk and walking down Memory Lane.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Okay, I just want to just plug the end of
every song again. There's there's a website the end of
everysong dot com. If you go there, you could see
the a story of the song, the entire credits. You know,
usually when you see a rock video, you don't really
know who did what, but you can find everything out there,
and it's it also has u There's a lot of
(28:44):
personalities in the song, in the song, in the video
that you know you want to know who it is.
They're all listed there.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Awesome. Thank you Buck.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk podcast. Share this and episodes with your friends and
follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking a
Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and
wherever you get your podcasts.
Popular Podcasts
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.