February 20, 2025 • 24 mins
Join @thebuzzknight with the author of "Forever in Bloom", Kelly Caitlin celebrating the life of Kurt Cobain. Kelly tries to redefine how we remember Cobain, inviting readers to see Cobain as a deeply empathetic, creative artist who shaped music in his time with the band Nirvana that still resonates today.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I feel like in this day and age, if you
have an artist who struggling with mental health issues, regardless
of where they are, you know, on the celebrity status,
I feel if somebody was to say, you know, I
can't do this enough. I do like to think as
a society, we're we're more willing to say, okay, let's
take a break, let's step back. You know. I know
that Nirvana did cancel you know, shows and whatnot when
(00:23):
if Kurt was having issues. But I like to think
as a society we do better.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Welcome to another episode of the Taking a Walk Podcast
with Buzznight. If you love this podcast, please share it
with your friends. Also, please check out our companion podcast,
Music Saved Me, hosted by Lynn Hoffman. February twentieth mark's
the birthday of Kurt Cobain, talented and troubled frontman for
the iconic band Nirvana, and today Buzz welcomes Kelly Caitlin,
(00:52):
author of the new book on Kirt called Forever in Bloom,
which redefines how we remember Kurt beyond the cliches of
a torture artist, showcasing him as a deeply empathetic person.
Passionate about social justice and so much more. Here's Buzz
Night and author Kelly Caitlin on taking a Walk.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
So, Kelly, since this podcast is called taking a Walk
and the subject is Kurt Cobain, where if you had
an opportunity to take a walk with Kurt Cobain, would
you like to take a walk with him?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
So we live in a pretty rural area and there's
a really pretty lake by us, and we were actually
there not too long ago for a Renaissance fair in
my family and I and I kind of like to
do a lot of, you know, reflecting. When I'm kind
of in the middle of nowhere, I feel like it
just you let all the noise and all the static
kind of kind of fade out. So I think that
would be a nice place to take a walk with him.
(01:48):
It's a very pretty scenic lake. It's completely away from
everything and everybody, and I think it's a nice pensive
location to just kind of think and talk and reflect.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I'm a little surprised at your answer. We'll get into
the Aberdeen Bridge in a little bit. I thought you
might have said the bridge, but it's okay, no problem,
there's no writer wrong answer to that. Question, But Kelly,
what drove you to write Kurt Cobain Forever in Bloom
available with the folks at Genius Book Publishing.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
There's a couple reasons for it. I never set out
to write a book. This wasn't one of these things
where I always knew I wanted to be an author.
I am a writer. I do content writing for different
websites and I write for some different online publications. But
that was kind of more something that happened after I
started writing the book. I kind of it was like, oh, hey,
I like doing this. I enjoy writing as much as
(02:47):
I do. Maybe i'll, you know, right, as a career.
But basically one I had a family member, Walter, who
died by suicide in twenty seventeen, and he loved Nirvana.
That wasn't why I chose to write about Kurt Cobain.
It was one day during the pandemic and I was
out with my son and I came home and our
(03:09):
neighbor across the street, who's probably twenty years younger than me,
was blasting Nirvana and I said to him, I said, oh,
do you guys still listen to this? He was like, yes,
of course we do. So Later that afternoon, I was
baking cookies with my son and Nirvana was stuck in
my head, so I asked Alexa to play Nirvana, and
it must have tripped something in my Google algorithm or
(03:32):
all of a sudden, Kurt Cobain is coming up in
my newsfeed, and everything I was reading was very maudlin,
very depressed. It just painted this. I felt almost like
a tortured artist caricature, and thinking about Walter in that moment,
I would never want somebody to remember him solely for
(03:53):
his depression or solely for his last act on this earth.
And to me, me knowing that a lot of young
people look up to Kurt Cobain and that a lot
of people idolize him, I just felt that it was
time to rewrite his narrative from a compassionate lens, from
the lens of someone who's experienced losing a family member
(04:15):
to suicide. And that was basically the impetus for this book.
Kind Of right then and there, I decided I was
going to do it, and then the next two years
were kind of a blur of writing.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
It's wonderful that you took this on. We also produce
another podcast which is called music saved me about the
sort of the power of music and everything. So you're
really fusing the two together with this project. When were
you first impacted by Kurt and Nirvana's music.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Believe it or not. So I'm going to be forty
two this year. I wasn't something I didn't like them.
If I would have heard them on the radio station
growing up, I just wouldn't have called myself a fan.
And one of my best friends growing up was completely
obsessed with the band, So obviously I had more than
enough opportunities to become exposed. But it wasn't until after
(05:06):
I started reading all these articles and Google about him
and the band and kind of exploring more and learning
about the benefit concerts that they played. It just made
me realize, this is this, you know, powerful band and
this very powerful lead singer who I think this empathetic,
you know, altruistic nature tends to get overlooked. So I mean, really,
(05:28):
just over the past couple of years is when I've
gotten turned on to them, and people assume, all, you
wrote this five hundred page book about him, you must
be a diehard fan, and I'm like, well, now I
think they're great, but going into it. What songs did
they sing? Don'ts like teen Spirit Come as You Are?
I probably knew as much as the you know, casual
listener knew. So this definitely confused my family. When I
(05:51):
decided to write the book. They were like, but do
you know anything about kirkle Band And I said no.
But it was just the way his suicide was romanticized
in the media that I was like, no, I'm I'm
going to write about him, though.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
So you sought to talk to an interesting group of people,
and the first person that you were able to capture
before he passed away for the book was Steve at Albini. Yeah,
can you talk about Steve first of all, what his
role was with Nirvana for those that don't know, and
(06:25):
tell me what the conversation was like with Steve.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Sure, absolutely so. Steve Albani did produce nirvanas in Utero,
who was lovely. So I actually spoke with him last
on April fifth, which was neither one of us even
realized that at the time, but that was the thirtieth
anniversary of Kirk Colbein's passing. And what's funny was we
(06:50):
had struggled to connect because he obviously Steve Albani is
going to be extremely busy, so you know, we kind
of kept making all these different appointments to me, and
then something would happen and we had to reschedule. So
we finally wound up connecting on ten am on April fifth,
and I remember that conversation very clearly because about twenty
(07:13):
three minutes in we had an earthquake in New Jersey,
which we don't really have. So I hear I know,
Steve is talking and he's telling stories, but I'm kind
of starting to have a panic attack at this point
because you know, my walls are rattling. I've never been
in an earthquake. And I hear him laughing and he's
kind of waiting for me to laugh because he's telling
(07:34):
a joke. And I go, Steve, I am so sorry.
I'm not trying to ignore you. I said, I think
we're in the middle of an earthquake. And he's like,
everybody okay. I'm like, no, we're fine. He's like, do
you want to go? Do you want to reschedule? And
I said no, no, no, everything's okay, Like there was
no damage in the house, nothing actually fell off the walls.
My fun somehow slept through the entire thing, so Steve
(07:57):
and I continued, and I'm so great full that I did,
because just over a month later he passed away. So,
you know, I think when I spoke to Steve, I
probably asked him a lot of the same questions that
people ask him about in utero. I did come at
it from a bit of a novice lens, not knowing
(08:18):
anything about recording, so I think I was able to
maybe ask some good questions. But the one thing I'm
really really grateful for is that since my book focuses
on Kurt's social activism, if you will, I was able
to speak to Steve about that a little bit and
just kind of how, you know, Kurt basically being a pioneer,
(08:41):
and how the whole band was very comfortable in their skin,
kind of at a time where maybe that might be
socially frowned on. So I did feel lucky that that
Steve and I got to talk about that. He was
a very very very nice person. He was a wonderful man,
and not haveing any industry connections coming into this, you know,
(09:04):
kind of being a mom from the middle of nowhere.
I found it a little challenging to get people to
want to speak to me and do interviews, because you know,
the first thing is is this going to be in
Rolling Stone? And so a lot of people kind of
tend to be more concerned about things like that. Everybody
in my book is fantastic. Steve was one of these
people who reached out to him. There was no trying
(09:26):
to convince him to do it. I sent him an email.
The next day he wrote back, I'd be happy to
be part of your project. You know. I was anxious
talking to him because I had read that he was
the crankiest man in rock, so I wanted to be
over prepared. I thought he was just lovely. There was
(09:47):
never anything cranky all of our you know, email correspondents.
He was just a very kind person who you could
tell I had time for others. After he passed, and
I I had known about this then, because I would
have asked him about it. I was speaking with Todd Traynor,
who's the drummer for his ban Schilac, and I said,
(10:07):
I want to do something in Steve's honor. He didn't
have to be part of this book, but he chose to,
you know, be in it. And since I'm donating half
my profits to charity. I said, I want to do
something in Steve's name. Do you think there's something that
he would support and he said that. About thirty years ago,
Steve and his wife started getting letters from the post
(10:29):
Office just addressed to Santa. People never thought anybody would
read them, and they were basically letters from parents who
were saying, you know, Dear Santa, this Christmas, I don't
want to have to choose which one of my children
gets new shoes. Dear Santa, this Christmas, I want to
be able to afford coats for all of my kids.
And Steve and his wife selflessly took it upon themselves
(10:52):
to start fulfilling these wishes, and thirty years the letter later,
they have this letters to Santa Charity. I think this
past year they helped sixteen different families. They basically make
Christmas happen for them.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
All.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
The older kids get laptops, if I'm correct, the younger
kids get tablets, and every family gets ten thousand dollars,
no strings attached. And Steve Albini was part of that
champion that what incredible human being. I have nothing but
praise for him.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Great story. Now that's one of the charities I know
that you highlight for your proceeds from the book. We'll
talk about the others certainly that we want to shine
a light on. Another person that you spoke with is
being a guest on the podcast and specifically even talking
about Nirvana and the MTV Unplugged sessions. What was it
(11:43):
like talking to the former manager of Nirvana, Danny Goldberg.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Danny Goldberg is also lovely. He was another one of
the people who I reached out and the next day, yep,
let's set up a time to talk. Obviously incredibly talented,
incredibly smart, almost where it's intimidating to talk to him,
so well spoken, so kind, just you know, took the
time to listen to me, explain why I was doing this,
(12:12):
how I wanted to all, how I wanted to honor Walter,
and just you know, patiently listen to me while I
asked him questions that I tried to find, questions that
maybe weren't already asked a thousand times. Because since the
book isn't about the band, it's about Kurt Cobain, you know,
the human being. I wanted to speak with him about
(12:35):
different sides of Kurt, things like why didn't he quit music,
because I know that's something that people kind of kick
around on different online forums, and you know, Danny had
explained to me that he loved music. It's not that
simple to just walk away from something, you know, when
you love it. We talked a little bit about you know,
(12:55):
Kurt's drug use and his stomach issues and could this
have been a product of you know, maybe being uninsured
in America self medicating. Danny didn't feel that was the issue.
He felt, you know, Kurt had these you know, substance
abuse issues before joining the band. So it was just
a nice insightful conversation really about Kurt's impact. You know,
(13:19):
Danny was saying how he likes when he sees people
walking around New York with the Nirvana t shirts on,
and it's nice to see that the band is still
making an impact. So that was just it was a
nice conversation, definitely intimidating.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
He's a legend in the business, and he's a good man.
He really is.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
He really is. Definitely just like I said, didn't didn't
have to tate to speak to me about it. To
help me honor a loved one who passed by suicide.
Really an incredible person.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
When you think of mental illness and you think of
the music business, and you reflect on you know, Kurt's
ultimate passing, how far do you think the music business
has come on how it views mental health.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
I think it's tough because I think as a society
and the music business, I think we've come a long way.
There seems to be a lot more understanding for people.
I feel like in this day and age, if you
have an artist who's struggling with mental health issues, regardless
of where they are, you know, on the celebrity status,
I feel if somebody was to say, you know, I
(14:26):
can't do this enough. I do like to think as
a society, we're we're more willing to say, okay, let's
take a break, let's step back. You know. I know
that Nirvana did cancel you know, shows and whatnot when
if Kurt was having issues. But I like to think
as a society we do better. I think one of
the issues the music industry might face is social media,
(14:48):
so you can have you know, mental health if you're
struggling with your mental health and you need to get
access to resources. But everything is at your fingertips now,
and if you make one misstep. You know, we saw
this with Kurt We saw how the media was constantly
after him and insinuating things. I think today, with social media,
(15:09):
there's so much online bullying and I can see that
regardless of how you know, accommodating the music industry might be,
that's going to eat at somebody's you know, that's going
to eat at their soul. In my opinion, you have
these artists that have, you know, millions of followers across
a variety of platforms, and you just can't stop people
(15:30):
from coming out and being online bullies. If they don't
like your weight, they don't like your hair, they don't
like how you dress, they don't like your last song.
And I think unless these artists are able to completely
shut themselves out from that and have maybe very dedicated
PR teams who are going to you know, manage their
socials for them, but really, with social media everywhere, how
(15:52):
do you turn yourself off to that? So I think
we're in a more accepting day and age. We might have,
you know, people who under stand needing a break for
mental health, but also just this constant access to criticism
on the internet, which is almost kind of like a
double edged sword. For these artists, which I think is
really a shame.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
I love the story of how you took being a writer,
merged it with some activism when it came to the
Aberdeen Bridge. Tell everybody about the bridge, what it is
for those that don't know, and what you and others
were able to do about the bridge.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Sure, so the Aberdeen Bridge, some people might hear it
called the young Street Bridge, Kurtz Bridge usually so Kirk
is kirk obing a synonymous with the bridge because the
I don't want to say rumor, but as the story goes,
he wrote the song Something in the Way from Nevermind
about his time being on house beneath the bridge, and
(16:49):
there's been a lot of speculation about that over the years.
Did he didn't he sleep there? You know, You've got
him on some accounts saying that he did, and then
we know in other accounts and see he kind of
walks that back a little bit. You know, there's a
lot of the speculation with the tide and how much
foliage there was there, you know, in the eighties, what
(17:11):
he's been able to sleep there. And the big thing
I focus on in my book is I don't think
it matters if he did or didn't sleep there. I
think the bridge in terms of Kurt represents the fact
that he was unhoused, So I think we really need
to kind of look at the big picture with that.
But people from all over the world come to that bridge.
(17:31):
I was told a story by one of Kurt's friends.
So there's a misconception that his ashes are scattered in
the Wishka River there he was actually I mean, his
ashes were scattered at a variety of different places, but
one of them is McLean Creek, which I think is
an olympia. But people still associate him with that bridge.
(17:53):
So there was a young woman from I believe it
was Spain who flew out to Aberdeen. Her brother had
passed away in a car accident and his final wishes
were to be scattered in the Wishka River, where Kirk
Cobain was. So she flies out from Spain and she
goes there and she meets with one of Kurt's friends
and he says to her, he says, you know, he's
(18:14):
not actually scattered here, and she said to him, she said, well,
this was my brother's final wish, so I'm going to
scatter him here anyway. And you think to yourself. That's
somebody who flew around the world for this final gesture
for their family member. And that's the impact of Kirk Cobain.
And that's how important that bridge is to people. So
(18:35):
right now, the bridge, I don't even think they've made
a decision yet. But the bridge was facing demolition, and
it's not because of what it stands for. It's because
it's not structurally down. So they're trying to figure out
what to do with it. Exactly. I think cars of
a certain weight can still drive across it. So they
have all these incredible engineers out in Aberdeen trying to
(18:57):
figure out what to do. And one of the things
on the tape was build another bridge next to it
and keep that one, maybe as a walking path still,
so I think they're kind of leaning towards that, but
again I'm not not really sure. I haven't followed it
too closely in a while. But about I'm gonna say
about I think it was last April some historians from
(19:17):
town reached out to me and they said, would you
help us and trying to preserve the bridge, and I
said yeah, I said, just you know, tell me what
to do. They thought maybe trying to get it made
an historic landmark, might help. I did try to get
that done. I had spoken with the powers that be
in Washington State. Basically I was kind of told it
was an exercise and futility and it probably wasn't going
(19:40):
to happen. I really don't think it would need to
happen anyway. I do think they'll find a way of
preserving it. So we started a petition. I think we
got about three thousand signatures maybe, and then Matthew Well's
formerly of the Daily World and Aberdeen reached out, you know,
did a nice little interview with me. With me, I
(20:00):
got to say see my name for the first time
in print as a Kurt Cobain book author. So that
was cool. But it was nice to know that what
we were trying to do mattered and it was catching on.
I wound up connecting with the Grays Harbor Conservation District
because they're the ones who are responsible for preserving and
maintained Kurt's Memorial Park, which is right next to the bridge,
(20:23):
and we talked and we kind of have this plan
in place where if the bridge does come down, they
want to reach out to the town to see if
they can maybe get a piece of the abutment with
the graffiti on it, to maybe move to his park
somehow to still have a little piece of it there.
But I really do need to find out what's going
on with the bridge, because I have nests in a while.
But as far as I know, I don't think any
(20:44):
advancements with anything have been made. But it felt nice
to be able to do something to help to remind
people like, Hey, this bridge matters, and as long as
the engineers can find a way too safely still keep
it or preserve it, let's try to be part of that.
Let's try to keep this bridge that people literally fly from,
(21:04):
you know, the far corners of the earth to visit.
I think that's really special and I think we need
to keep that. I've never been to the bridge myself, though,
gotta go.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I haven't been either. We all got to go?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Do I want to go? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:16):
I gotta go. So in closing, can you give some
props to the charities that are important to you that
will get some money from the sales of the book?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
So.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Before I became a waiter, I used to be a
special ad teacher and I worked with disadvantaged children. So
one organization that I'm sending money to is called Jenny's
House and there are Children's Advocacy Center and basically they
provide free support to children who are survivors of abuse.
Another organization is in Colbein's hometown. It's called Camp Victory
(21:53):
and they also work with children. They provide free summer
camp to children who are survivors of sexual assault. I'm
also going to be giving some money to the Aberdeen
Food Bank to try to help them out. And then
I'm looking for something that does something for veterans who
died by suicide to assist their families afterwards. I think
(22:14):
I'm going to be giving some of the funds to
an organization called TAPS because after Walter, my family member.
He was a veteran marine, so after he died, they
stepped in to help my family, so I would like
to pay it forward with them. There's also Steve Albini's chapter.
Another one I'm giving some funds too is called Tomorrow's
(22:35):
Children's Fund and they provide support to families who have
children battling childhood cancer. And then there's another one out
in the Aberdeen area that's a local wildlife refuge. So
I'm just trying to spread it out. I know it's
a book, it's not going to make a million dollars,
so I'm trying to find other ways of helping. I
(22:56):
am hosting virtual online writing workshops for charity so I
can use that money to sense different organizations. And then
we actually had to move the date, but on March
twenty third, now we're going to be having a book
launch party at a record factory in New Jersey. They're
going to sell tickets, we have a really neat cover
band playing Nirvana, and we're giving one hundred percent of
(23:17):
the profits that day to Jenny's House, who will be
there to help out with volunteers.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
So Kelly, bravo for your work and your advocacy, but
also bravo for the book Forever in Bloom Kurt Cobain,
available from the folks at Genius Book Publishing and I'm
sure wherever else you can get books Amazon and of course,
and congrats on it, and thanks for thank you shining
(23:41):
a different light on the amazing career of someone we
lost way too young.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk Podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends
and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking
a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
and wherever you get your podcasts.
Taking a Walk.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I feel like in this day and age, if you
have an artist who struggling with mental health issues, regardless
of where they are, you know, on the celebrity status,
I feel if somebody was to say, you know, I
can't do this enough. I do like to think as
a society, we're we're more willing to say, okay, let's
take a break, let's step back. You know. I know
that Nirvana did cancel you know, shows and whatnot when
(00:23):
if Kurt was having issues. But I like to think
as a society we do better.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Welcome to another episode of the Taking a Walk Podcast
with Buzznight. If you love this podcast, please share it
with your friends. Also, please check out our companion podcast,
Music Saved Me, hosted by Lynn Hoffman. February twentieth mark's
the birthday of Kurt Cobain, talented and troubled frontman for
the iconic band Nirvana, and today Buzz welcomes Kelly Caitlin,
(00:52):
author of the new book on Kirt called Forever in Bloom,
which redefines how we remember Kurt beyond the cliches of
a torture artist, showcasing him as a deeply empathetic person.
Passionate about social justice and so much more. Here's Buzz
Night and author Kelly Caitlin on taking a Walk.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
So, Kelly, since this podcast is called taking a Walk
and the subject is Kurt Cobain, where if you had
an opportunity to take a walk with Kurt Cobain, would
you like to take a walk with him?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
So we live in a pretty rural area and there's
a really pretty lake by us, and we were actually
there not too long ago for a Renaissance fair in
my family and I and I kind of like to
do a lot of, you know, reflecting. When I'm kind
of in the middle of nowhere, I feel like it
just you let all the noise and all the static
kind of kind of fade out. So I think that
would be a nice place to take a walk with him.
(01:48):
It's a very pretty scenic lake. It's completely away from
everything and everybody, and I think it's a nice pensive
location to just kind of think and talk and reflect.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I'm a little surprised at your answer. We'll get into
the Aberdeen Bridge in a little bit. I thought you
might have said the bridge, but it's okay, no problem,
there's no writer wrong answer to that. Question, But Kelly,
what drove you to write Kurt Cobain Forever in Bloom
available with the folks at Genius Book Publishing.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
There's a couple reasons for it. I never set out
to write a book. This wasn't one of these things
where I always knew I wanted to be an author.
I am a writer. I do content writing for different
websites and I write for some different online publications. But
that was kind of more something that happened after I
started writing the book. I kind of it was like, oh, hey,
I like doing this. I enjoy writing as much as
(02:47):
I do. Maybe i'll, you know, right, as a career.
But basically one I had a family member, Walter, who
died by suicide in twenty seventeen, and he loved Nirvana.
That wasn't why I chose to write about Kurt Cobain.
It was one day during the pandemic and I was
out with my son and I came home and our
(03:09):
neighbor across the street, who's probably twenty years younger than me,
was blasting Nirvana and I said to him, I said, oh,
do you guys still listen to this? He was like, yes,
of course we do. So Later that afternoon, I was
baking cookies with my son and Nirvana was stuck in
my head, so I asked Alexa to play Nirvana, and
it must have tripped something in my Google algorithm or
(03:32):
all of a sudden, Kurt Cobain is coming up in
my newsfeed, and everything I was reading was very maudlin,
very depressed. It just painted this. I felt almost like
a tortured artist caricature, and thinking about Walter in that moment,
I would never want somebody to remember him solely for
(03:53):
his depression or solely for his last act on this earth.
And to me, me knowing that a lot of young
people look up to Kurt Cobain and that a lot
of people idolize him, I just felt that it was
time to rewrite his narrative from a compassionate lens, from
the lens of someone who's experienced losing a family member
(04:15):
to suicide. And that was basically the impetus for this book.
Kind Of right then and there, I decided I was
going to do it, and then the next two years
were kind of a blur of writing.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
It's wonderful that you took this on. We also produce
another podcast which is called music saved me about the
sort of the power of music and everything. So you're
really fusing the two together with this project. When were
you first impacted by Kurt and Nirvana's music.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Believe it or not. So I'm going to be forty
two this year. I wasn't something I didn't like them.
If I would have heard them on the radio station
growing up, I just wouldn't have called myself a fan.
And one of my best friends growing up was completely
obsessed with the band, So obviously I had more than
enough opportunities to become exposed. But it wasn't until after
(05:06):
I started reading all these articles and Google about him
and the band and kind of exploring more and learning
about the benefit concerts that they played. It just made
me realize, this is this, you know, powerful band and
this very powerful lead singer who I think this empathetic,
you know, altruistic nature tends to get overlooked. So I mean, really,
(05:28):
just over the past couple of years is when I've
gotten turned on to them, and people assume, all, you
wrote this five hundred page book about him, you must
be a diehard fan, and I'm like, well, now I
think they're great, but going into it. What songs did
they sing? Don'ts like teen Spirit Come as You Are?
I probably knew as much as the you know, casual
listener knew. So this definitely confused my family. When I
(05:51):
decided to write the book. They were like, but do
you know anything about kirkle Band And I said no.
But it was just the way his suicide was romanticized
in the media that I was like, no, I'm I'm
going to write about him, though.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
So you sought to talk to an interesting group of people,
and the first person that you were able to capture
before he passed away for the book was Steve at Albini. Yeah,
can you talk about Steve first of all, what his
role was with Nirvana for those that don't know, and
(06:25):
tell me what the conversation was like with Steve.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Sure, absolutely so. Steve Albani did produce nirvanas in Utero,
who was lovely. So I actually spoke with him last
on April fifth, which was neither one of us even
realized that at the time, but that was the thirtieth
anniversary of Kirk Colbein's passing. And what's funny was we
(06:50):
had struggled to connect because he obviously Steve Albani is
going to be extremely busy, so you know, we kind
of kept making all these different appointments to me, and
then something would happen and we had to reschedule. So
we finally wound up connecting on ten am on April fifth,
and I remember that conversation very clearly because about twenty
(07:13):
three minutes in we had an earthquake in New Jersey,
which we don't really have. So I hear I know,
Steve is talking and he's telling stories, but I'm kind
of starting to have a panic attack at this point
because you know, my walls are rattling. I've never been
in an earthquake. And I hear him laughing and he's
kind of waiting for me to laugh because he's telling
(07:34):
a joke. And I go, Steve, I am so sorry.
I'm not trying to ignore you. I said, I think
we're in the middle of an earthquake. And he's like,
everybody okay. I'm like, no, we're fine. He's like, do
you want to go? Do you want to reschedule? And
I said no, no, no, everything's okay, Like there was
no damage in the house, nothing actually fell off the walls.
My fun somehow slept through the entire thing, so Steve
(07:57):
and I continued, and I'm so great full that I did,
because just over a month later he passed away. So,
you know, I think when I spoke to Steve, I
probably asked him a lot of the same questions that
people ask him about in utero. I did come at
it from a bit of a novice lens, not knowing
(08:18):
anything about recording, so I think I was able to
maybe ask some good questions. But the one thing I'm
really really grateful for is that since my book focuses
on Kurt's social activism, if you will, I was able
to speak to Steve about that a little bit and
just kind of how, you know, Kurt basically being a pioneer,
(08:41):
and how the whole band was very comfortable in their skin,
kind of at a time where maybe that might be
socially frowned on. So I did feel lucky that that
Steve and I got to talk about that. He was
a very very very nice person. He was a wonderful man,
and not haveing any industry connections coming into this, you know,
(09:04):
kind of being a mom from the middle of nowhere.
I found it a little challenging to get people to
want to speak to me and do interviews, because you know,
the first thing is is this going to be in
Rolling Stone? And so a lot of people kind of
tend to be more concerned about things like that. Everybody
in my book is fantastic. Steve was one of these
people who reached out to him. There was no trying
(09:26):
to convince him to do it. I sent him an email.
The next day he wrote back, I'd be happy to
be part of your project. You know. I was anxious
talking to him because I had read that he was
the crankiest man in rock, so I wanted to be
over prepared. I thought he was just lovely. There was
(09:47):
never anything cranky all of our you know, email correspondents.
He was just a very kind person who you could
tell I had time for others. After he passed, and
I I had known about this then, because I would
have asked him about it. I was speaking with Todd Traynor,
who's the drummer for his ban Schilac, and I said,
(10:07):
I want to do something in Steve's honor. He didn't
have to be part of this book, but he chose to,
you know, be in it. And since I'm donating half
my profits to charity. I said, I want to do
something in Steve's name. Do you think there's something that
he would support and he said that. About thirty years ago,
Steve and his wife started getting letters from the post
(10:29):
Office just addressed to Santa. People never thought anybody would
read them, and they were basically letters from parents who
were saying, you know, Dear Santa, this Christmas, I don't
want to have to choose which one of my children
gets new shoes. Dear Santa, this Christmas, I want to
be able to afford coats for all of my kids.
And Steve and his wife selflessly took it upon themselves
(10:52):
to start fulfilling these wishes, and thirty years the letter later,
they have this letters to Santa Charity. I think this
past year they helped sixteen different families. They basically make
Christmas happen for them.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
All.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
The older kids get laptops, if I'm correct, the younger
kids get tablets, and every family gets ten thousand dollars,
no strings attached. And Steve Albini was part of that
champion that what incredible human being. I have nothing but
praise for him.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Great story. Now that's one of the charities I know
that you highlight for your proceeds from the book. We'll
talk about the others certainly that we want to shine
a light on. Another person that you spoke with is
being a guest on the podcast and specifically even talking
about Nirvana and the MTV Unplugged sessions. What was it
(11:43):
like talking to the former manager of Nirvana, Danny Goldberg.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Danny Goldberg is also lovely. He was another one of
the people who I reached out and the next day, yep,
let's set up a time to talk. Obviously incredibly talented,
incredibly smart, almost where it's intimidating to talk to him,
so well spoken, so kind, just you know, took the
time to listen to me, explain why I was doing this,
(12:12):
how I wanted to all, how I wanted to honor Walter,
and just you know, patiently listen to me while I
asked him questions that I tried to find, questions that
maybe weren't already asked a thousand times. Because since the
book isn't about the band, it's about Kurt Cobain, you know,
the human being. I wanted to speak with him about
(12:35):
different sides of Kurt, things like why didn't he quit music,
because I know that's something that people kind of kick
around on different online forums, and you know, Danny had
explained to me that he loved music. It's not that
simple to just walk away from something, you know, when
you love it. We talked a little bit about you know,
(12:55):
Kurt's drug use and his stomach issues and could this
have been a product of you know, maybe being uninsured
in America self medicating. Danny didn't feel that was the issue.
He felt, you know, Kurt had these you know, substance
abuse issues before joining the band. So it was just
a nice insightful conversation really about Kurt's impact. You know,
(13:19):
Danny was saying how he likes when he sees people
walking around New York with the Nirvana t shirts on,
and it's nice to see that the band is still
making an impact. So that was just it was a
nice conversation, definitely intimidating.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
He's a legend in the business, and he's a good man.
He really is.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
He really is. Definitely just like I said, didn't didn't
have to tate to speak to me about it. To
help me honor a loved one who passed by suicide.
Really an incredible person.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
When you think of mental illness and you think of
the music business, and you reflect on you know, Kurt's
ultimate passing, how far do you think the music business
has come on how it views mental health.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
I think it's tough because I think as a society
and the music business, I think we've come a long way.
There seems to be a lot more understanding for people.
I feel like in this day and age, if you
have an artist who's struggling with mental health issues, regardless
of where they are, you know, on the celebrity status,
I feel if somebody was to say, you know, I
(14:26):
can't do this enough. I do like to think as
a society, we're we're more willing to say, okay, let's
take a break, let's step back. You know. I know
that Nirvana did cancel you know, shows and whatnot when
if Kurt was having issues. But I like to think
as a society we do better. I think one of
the issues the music industry might face is social media,
(14:48):
so you can have you know, mental health if you're
struggling with your mental health and you need to get
access to resources. But everything is at your fingertips now,
and if you make one misstep. You know, we saw
this with Kurt We saw how the media was constantly
after him and insinuating things. I think today, with social media,
(15:09):
there's so much online bullying and I can see that
regardless of how you know, accommodating the music industry might be,
that's going to eat at somebody's you know, that's going
to eat at their soul. In my opinion, you have
these artists that have, you know, millions of followers across
a variety of platforms, and you just can't stop people
(15:30):
from coming out and being online bullies. If they don't
like your weight, they don't like your hair, they don't
like how you dress, they don't like your last song.
And I think unless these artists are able to completely
shut themselves out from that and have maybe very dedicated
PR teams who are going to you know, manage their
socials for them, but really, with social media everywhere, how
(15:52):
do you turn yourself off to that? So I think
we're in a more accepting day and age. We might have,
you know, people who under stand needing a break for
mental health, but also just this constant access to criticism
on the internet, which is almost kind of like a
double edged sword. For these artists, which I think is
really a shame.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
I love the story of how you took being a writer,
merged it with some activism when it came to the
Aberdeen Bridge. Tell everybody about the bridge, what it is
for those that don't know, and what you and others
were able to do about the bridge.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Sure, so the Aberdeen Bridge, some people might hear it
called the young Street Bridge, Kurtz Bridge usually so Kirk
is kirk obing a synonymous with the bridge because the
I don't want to say rumor, but as the story goes,
he wrote the song Something in the Way from Nevermind
about his time being on house beneath the bridge, and
(16:49):
there's been a lot of speculation about that over the years.
Did he didn't he sleep there? You know, You've got
him on some accounts saying that he did, and then
we know in other accounts and see he kind of
walks that back a little bit. You know, there's a
lot of the speculation with the tide and how much
foliage there was there, you know, in the eighties, what
(17:11):
he's been able to sleep there. And the big thing
I focus on in my book is I don't think
it matters if he did or didn't sleep there. I
think the bridge in terms of Kurt represents the fact
that he was unhoused, So I think we really need
to kind of look at the big picture with that.
But people from all over the world come to that bridge.
(17:31):
I was told a story by one of Kurt's friends.
So there's a misconception that his ashes are scattered in
the Wishka River there he was actually I mean, his
ashes were scattered at a variety of different places, but
one of them is McLean Creek, which I think is
an olympia. But people still associate him with that bridge.
(17:53):
So there was a young woman from I believe it
was Spain who flew out to Aberdeen. Her brother had
passed away in a car accident and his final wishes
were to be scattered in the Wishka River, where Kirk
Cobain was. So she flies out from Spain and she
goes there and she meets with one of Kurt's friends
and he says to her, he says, you know, he's
(18:14):
not actually scattered here, and she said to him, she said, well,
this was my brother's final wish, so I'm going to
scatter him here anyway. And you think to yourself. That's
somebody who flew around the world for this final gesture
for their family member. And that's the impact of Kirk Cobain.
And that's how important that bridge is to people. So
(18:35):
right now, the bridge, I don't even think they've made
a decision yet. But the bridge was facing demolition, and
it's not because of what it stands for. It's because
it's not structurally down. So they're trying to figure out
what to do with it. Exactly. I think cars of
a certain weight can still drive across it. So they
have all these incredible engineers out in Aberdeen trying to
(18:57):
figure out what to do. And one of the things
on the tape was build another bridge next to it
and keep that one, maybe as a walking path still,
so I think they're kind of leaning towards that, but
again I'm not not really sure. I haven't followed it
too closely in a while. But about I'm gonna say
about I think it was last April some historians from
(19:17):
town reached out to me and they said, would you
help us and trying to preserve the bridge, and I
said yeah, I said, just you know, tell me what
to do. They thought maybe trying to get it made
an historic landmark, might help. I did try to get
that done. I had spoken with the powers that be
in Washington State. Basically I was kind of told it
was an exercise and futility and it probably wasn't going
(19:40):
to happen. I really don't think it would need to
happen anyway. I do think they'll find a way of
preserving it. So we started a petition. I think we
got about three thousand signatures maybe, and then Matthew Well's
formerly of the Daily World and Aberdeen reached out, you know,
did a nice little interview with me. With me, I
(20:00):
got to say see my name for the first time
in print as a Kurt Cobain book author. So that
was cool. But it was nice to know that what
we were trying to do mattered and it was catching on.
I wound up connecting with the Grays Harbor Conservation District
because they're the ones who are responsible for preserving and
maintained Kurt's Memorial Park, which is right next to the bridge,
(20:23):
and we talked and we kind of have this plan
in place where if the bridge does come down, they
want to reach out to the town to see if
they can maybe get a piece of the abutment with
the graffiti on it, to maybe move to his park
somehow to still have a little piece of it there.
But I really do need to find out what's going
on with the bridge, because I have nests in a while.
But as far as I know, I don't think any
(20:44):
advancements with anything have been made. But it felt nice
to be able to do something to help to remind
people like, Hey, this bridge matters, and as long as
the engineers can find a way too safely still keep
it or preserve it, let's try to be part of that.
Let's try to keep this bridge that people literally fly from,
(21:04):
you know, the far corners of the earth to visit.
I think that's really special and I think we need
to keep that. I've never been to the bridge myself, though,
gotta go.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I haven't been either. We all got to go?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Do I want to go? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:16):
I gotta go. So in closing, can you give some
props to the charities that are important to you that
will get some money from the sales of the book?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (21:31):
So.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Before I became a waiter, I used to be a
special ad teacher and I worked with disadvantaged children. So
one organization that I'm sending money to is called Jenny's
House and there are Children's Advocacy Center and basically they
provide free support to children who are survivors of abuse.
Another organization is in Colbein's hometown. It's called Camp Victory
(21:53):
and they also work with children. They provide free summer
camp to children who are survivors of sexual assault. I'm
also going to be giving some money to the Aberdeen
Food Bank to try to help them out. And then
I'm looking for something that does something for veterans who
died by suicide to assist their families afterwards. I think
(22:14):
I'm going to be giving some of the funds to
an organization called TAPS because after Walter, my family member.
He was a veteran marine, so after he died, they
stepped in to help my family, so I would like
to pay it forward with them. There's also Steve Albini's chapter.
Another one I'm giving some funds too is called Tomorrow's
(22:35):
Children's Fund and they provide support to families who have
children battling childhood cancer. And then there's another one out
in the Aberdeen area that's a local wildlife refuge. So
I'm just trying to spread it out. I know it's
a book, it's not going to make a million dollars,
so I'm trying to find other ways of helping. I
(22:56):
am hosting virtual online writing workshops for charity so I
can use that money to sense different organizations. And then
we actually had to move the date, but on March
twenty third, now we're going to be having a book
launch party at a record factory in New Jersey. They're
going to sell tickets, we have a really neat cover
band playing Nirvana, and we're giving one hundred percent of
(23:17):
the profits that day to Jenny's House, who will be
there to help out with volunteers.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
So Kelly, bravo for your work and your advocacy, but
also bravo for the book Forever in Bloom Kurt Cobain,
available from the folks at Genius Book Publishing and I'm
sure wherever else you can get books Amazon and of course,
and congrats on it, and thanks for thank you shining
(23:41):
a different light on the amazing career of someone we
lost way too young.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a
Walk Podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends
and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking
a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
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