Jeff Foxworthy | Dark Comedy, True Crime and Rednecks (RE-RELEASE) - Talking to Death with Payne Lindsey

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:13):
Talking to Death is a production of tenderfoot TV and
iHeart Podcasts. Listener discretion is advised. We're back. We're back.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
If you're an up advanished listener, you probably just finished
episode eight and we're sorry to leave you hanging. The
way we've planned out this season and structured it has
really been by design from the beginning, and we're excited
to learn so much new information in these next couple
of months before the next eight episodes come out.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
What do you guys think?

Speaker 3 (00:45):
It was a long journey. I mean, it was a long,
long journey, long journey. We're not done yet, well, the
first half part one. Yeah, what we've covered so far
has been a very long journey. It's also weirdly kind
of rewarding.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
It feels like we're doing the right thing in my opinion,
you know, talking to the family and stuff like that.
It's always it always feels good.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Yeah, I will say I definitely felt pretty energized in
a way after meeting with Selena and Joseph's mom, Joseph Baldeus,
who went missing. And this is the first time, really
ever since I've been making true crime podcasts where in
Up and Vantage, specifically the families of the missing persons

(01:35):
the victims in these stories are up to speed on
what Up and Vanished is as a listener, just as
a consumer, and it's it's just been kind of like
it's kind of hurt my brain a little bit because
it's you know, if you look at season one, two, three,
the cases that we dove into, there was always a

(01:57):
little bit of you know, what's a podcast?

Speaker 2 (01:59):
What is this? What are we doing?

Speaker 4 (02:01):
And like it's scary, right, Like I would be very
intimidated to have anyone tell the story of my loved
one in an investigative story.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Right, It's just sounds scary.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
But it's just been really kind of a full circle
of feeling that it's like, we like the relationship we
have with both families. We kind of just bypassed what
has always been a almost like courting chapter where we're
trying to explain what we want to do, and that

(02:40):
it's that you shouldn't be afraid of us, and it's
all good. Our intentions are pure and we really want
to move the needle. And it was just really cool
that they already felt that way and we were just
kind of just jumped right in to let's figure this

(03:00):
shit out. And I just thought there's something special to that,
and it just creates an even better launching pad for.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Getting good results. We're already like, if this is where we.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
Start, then I think we can yield a lot here, Dylan,
you listened to episode eight.

Speaker 5 (03:21):
Episode eight is really interesting, I think to me specifically
because we begin to start covering Joseph's case in this
in a really deep way, me and the family going
through you know, the last days and sort of like
the last case details that we know. And I think
when we started doing this initially, when we found out
we were going to be looking into two different cases,

(03:42):
you guys went really heavily into flow and I kind
of tried to do whatever I could to do the
same but for Joseph. So you know what's unique about
Joseph's case is that, probably for the first time ever
on the show, we have this insane amount of information
that's been collected since twenty sixteen, since you went missing,
between several different private investigators, the family who kept meticulous details,

(04:04):
and all these people that have put together this massive
amount of data that we can go through, and it's
it's going to be interesting to see how that unfolds
throughout the next season. I'm really looking forward to getting
into this and really researching this case.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
Yeah, it's really crazy. With Joseph's family and network is
just because he's not from Alaska. They all flew from
Texas or wherever they were to go and search and
do whatever they could, you know, and they you know,
there were his college buddies, his people he grew up with,
his family, his you know, his fiance. So many people

(04:43):
just came out to just hey, what's going on in
this little town and why did he go missing? And
you know, it's the outreach he received for being so
far away from anywhere he was from was just crazy
and honestly truly impressive.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
The circumstances of Flow's disappearing and Joseph's are wildly different.
They're you know, wildly different people from different backgrounds, walks
of life. But the biggest commonality here is the tiny
town of No Malaska. Even though the circumstances were entirely different,
and it's very likely that their disappearances are not related

(05:22):
in some sort of suspect way. Right, the major intersect
is everyone in this town. Everyone knows everybody. It's the
same police force, it's the same troopers, it's the same
local government, it's the same search team, it's the same neighbors,

(05:44):
it's the same witnesses, it's the same pool of suspects.
I think that there is a really good opportunity here
to discover new information when people are talking about two
disappearances in one place like this, and everything's just being uncovered,

(06:06):
talked about.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
No more sweeping stuff under the rug.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
Everybody's fair game, and I think that that creates a
really strong flow of information. I've just seen in the
past when people start talking about that, when they feel
incentivized to talk and they feel emotionally motivated to talk,
Eventually you start to whittle down either A who isn't

(06:32):
talking or B why is everyone saying the same thing,
and you know, narrow in the focus on what matters,
and that's finding the missing link to what happened to
both Florence and Joseph.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
I feel it's important to point out that Alaska does
have extremely good, very talented, very experienced search and rescue teams.
I mean, those communities know to find people out in
the wild. They're very good at it. A lot of
private planes, there's helicopters that come out, people on ATVs.
For me, the fact that neither one were found just

(07:10):
points way more to there's probably foul play in both
of these because Alaska is like again, probably one of
the best at search and rescues.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yeah, my opinion is the fact that they haven't been
found means something bad happened. It's not a coincidence.

Speaker 4 (07:28):
It wasn't bad luck that they never found any physical
evidence of them.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
I think it was hidden in both cases. And it's
easy to look at Joseph's case, and because his truck
was found, you know, way out of town on a
desolate road, basically in the tundra, it's easy to say, hey,
something may have happened in the woods, an accident or

(07:56):
a run in with a you know, an animal that
was trying to defend itself. Or there's bears, there's wolves,
there's all kinds of dangers out there. But if you
really break it down and look at the literal facts
and evidence. That's just a theory too, that's just a

(08:18):
hypothesis because there is no actual physical evidence to support
the fact that Joseph may have had a run in
with a bear, just as much as there isn't for
a murder. But then you start peeling the onion back
a little bit, and all these different stories and the
things that don't add up about the roommate and some

(08:40):
of the friends and the timeline. There are unanswered questions
that should be crossed off. It's if there isn't any
supporting evidence for the leading theory, then back up and
figure out what's up with this shit first. And I
thought that's kind of been our approach since the beginning

(09:00):
in Joseph's case, and we have been looking into both
cases for over a year now, and all the hard
work that Joseph's family put in and the private investigators
Andy Klamser, it really is, like I'm being serious, probably
the most impressive body of investigative material that I've ever

(09:23):
seen on a case that I was looking into, being
able to go back and see what persons of interest
were saying eight years ago and compared to what they're
saying now, and all these details that were logged Joseph's
family tracking down those receipts like that is like an

(09:44):
FBI move right there.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
Why are they doing that?

Speaker 1 (09:47):
They but they did, and they built this really robust
mountain of evidence that I think I'm convinced at this
point that somewhere in there are all the pieces you
need to put together what happened to him. It'll be
interesting to see sort of in the aftermath of episode

(10:08):
eight as we kind of hit pause for a second,
and maybe those who haven't fully listened to the show
yet who are locals or in knowme like, they catch
up and it kind of just leaves the conversation hanging
in a way that I hope encourages people to keep talking.
And I'll be curious to see a couple months from

(10:29):
now what we've learned from this day forward.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yeah, super important in this time we have between this
section of the season and when we come back in June,
we need people talking about this. We need this to
be the topic of conversation when people are meeting for
lunch for dinner in the town, because that's how information
gets out that can lead to that missing piece of
the puzzle that we're all looking for right that can

(10:54):
point us in one direction, or point us to one person,
or give us some kind of evidence, some kind of clue.
People talking is more powerful than probably any other investigative tool.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
Right, Dylan, what do you think is going to be
the lynch pin in solving either one of these cases?

Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (11:11):
I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head.
It comes down to getting people in the town talking,
getting those connections to be made, because you never know
who's going to have some small piece of information that
they think is useless and they think it's not worth mentioning.
But then they'll talk to someone else who has some
other piece, and all of a sudden, two pieces is
a puzzle fit together in a way that no one
would have thought that it would, and it leads to

(11:33):
something new. I think we've definitely done our legwork to
make that happen, between setting up this dropbox with this
missing poster on it offering a huge reward, talking to
reporters and going on radio shows and know and we've
done everything that we can to start a conversation there.
And it's really just now up to each and every
person there to take some personal responsibility and join this

(11:55):
conversation in some big way. And I think the problem
is most people don't know what that timeline is that
we've built up, or that the prior investigators and the
families have built up. Like we have a very good
understanding of his exact movements, but I guarantee no one
person in the town knows as much as we do.
But collectively they probably know a lot more than we do.
So it's really just about getting that collection together and

(12:17):
presenting it in a way that the puzzle pieces can
start to fit together.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
I mean it being a small town in a lot
of ways, it can be a double edged sword. Though, right,
there's the intimate part of it where information doesn't have
to travel as far or fast. It's all right, here's
a beehive where everyone so close that the answers are close.

(12:40):
It's also a part of it where because it is
so small and someone's family may work at this place
and at that place too, or their uncle is this guy.
I would imagine there's probably a lot of times some
hesitation in getting overly involved in something like a missing

(13:00):
person's case, an unsolved suspicious missing person's case because of
how close everyone is. Period, you'll have to see that
person at the grocery store tomorrow. You may have this
piece of information that you know, stand alone doesn't paint
a full picture. But that person might be thinking, this

(13:21):
doesn't make this person that I know look very good?
But am I gonna go out on a limb and
share this? What are the consequences of me sharing that?
And so I fully understand that kind of dynamic that
I think we is happening here For anyone listening who
may be that person, we will go out of our way,
and we have gone out of our way to protect

(13:42):
people's identity if that is what people want.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
There's a lot of.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
Stuff that you don't actually hear in this podcast that
is recorded that we never even talk about because we're
respecting someone else's request or whatever they told us, we
decided to use as information to lead us to the
next thing that you may be actually heard on the show.

(14:08):
And so I think that if we can build a
rapport and a level of trust amongst ourselves and those
who collectively feel like they're empowered to solve these cases,
then only good can come out of that. I'm thankful
for all those who've listened to in the Midnight Sun,

(14:30):
So far and I just the families of the victims
feel your support, and it's really special and I'm excited
to dive even deeper into these cases over the next
couple of months.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Today's episode is a rerun.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
This podcast has been out since November, and I know
that people have found this show at different times, and
some people might just listen to only the most recent
episodes and not go back to the older ones. But
today it felt appropriate to replay one of my favorite
interviews so far, the very talented comedian, TV host comic

(15:14):
all star Jeff Foxworthy. We had an amazing, hilarious conversation
at the Tenderfoot Studio in Atlanta, and he is actually
an up and vanished fan listener of the show, but
I bring up up in Vanish and we talk about
the difficulties of true crime, our own more big curiosities

(15:38):
as humans, and the value of shows like this, and
he also digs into his career and how he feels
about the world. And I just felt it was a
really fun conversation that I learned a lot from and
it felt appropriate to play again after episode eight today
and to all up and manage let's we will be

(16:00):
back in June with eight more up and vanished episodes.
But in the meantime, we'll be right here on Talking
to Death. Any updates you get on Up and Advantage
will be here first until June, and we have a
bunch of really amazing guests lined up for the next
couple of weeks.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
That we're excited to share with you.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
So please remain subscribed and tune back in every Friday,
because we need it to pay our bills. I remember
my parents cracking up to your joke you might be

(16:42):
a redneck. If my dad's from South Georgia, he's from
All Benny. I mean that's their shit, All Bennie, All Bennie, right, yeah,
not all Yeah, not Albany.

Speaker 4 (16:51):
All.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
Other people will call it Albany, Yeah, but we call
it all Bennie, All Bennie. How that started? Why that is?
No one knows, man.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
I want to know, from your perspective, what is the
twenty twenty three modern day redneck.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
I don't think it's changed. You know, back when I
first well, let me back up a little bit. So
when I first started doing stand up, I was going
to New York a lot, and the only advice I
would kind of get up there was guys were like, yo, Jeff, like,
I don't want to hurt your freaking feelings, but you
need to take some voice lessons so you can lose

(17:28):
a stupid accent you got. And I'm like, okay, well
where I come from.

Speaker 4 (17:32):
You have the stupids, but you have an accent too.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
And I don't know why, but I dug my feet in.
I'm like, well, at least a quarter of the country
talks like me. I'm not going to lose my accent.
I mean, I grew up hunting, fishing. So I'm going
on stage, I'm wearing jeans and cowboy boots. I'm driving
a pickup truck around the country doing gigs. And they

(17:55):
were always kidding me. They were like, oh, Fox with
you nothing but old redneck from Georgia. And so one
night I was playing in Michigan, right outside of Detroit,
and after the show it was in November, and I
was like, dang, I wish I was sitting in a
tree in the morning, yeah, because I bow hunt. And
they were like the same thing, Fox, were you you
just old read nick from Georgia. Well, the club we

(18:16):
were playing in was attached to a bowling alley that
had valet parking, and I said to them, if you
don't think you have read Nicks in Michigan, go look
out the window. People are valet parking at the bowling Alley.
And I, you know, paining. I wasn't smart enough to think, oh,
it's going to be a hook or a book or something.

(18:37):
I just thought, maybe that's funny. And I went back
to the hotel and I wrote ten Ways to Tell.
And I went back the next night and as I
was doing and people weren't only laughing, they were pointing
at each other. And I'm like, Okay, there's something here.
And you know, if I can write ten, can I
write fifty? If I can write fifty, can I write
three hundred? And I ended up I had like three

(19:00):
or four hundred of them, and I sent it to
I was turned down by the first fourteen publishers I
sent it to. Really what they say? They were just like, now,
we're not interested. And the fifteenth publisher I sent it to.
The guy called me in for a meeting. He said, yeah,
this is kind of funny, he said. He said, I
think I think we could do it. How does fifteen

(19:20):
hundred dollars sound and I was dead quiet because I
thought he was asking me for fifteen hundred bucks, which
I didn't, you know. And then he's like, no, no, no, no,
we'll pay we'll pay you. And I'm like, hell, yeah,
you got a deal. You're gonna pay me. And I
remember saying to him, how many books do you think

(19:42):
we'll sell? And he said, I bet we sell five
thousand of them. And I think we sold four point
two million copies or something. So every time I would
see him after that, I'm like, I'm glad you don't
know anything more about the book business than I. But
so that's how all of that kind of started. But

(20:02):
and so in the press they would say, well, what's
the definition of it of redneck? And I would say, well,
it's kind of a glorious absence of sophistication. And by that,
my dad worked at IBM. But my dad would come
home Papa beer and he would he could entertain himself
watching the bug Zapper. Hell. I mean he just sit
there and go, oh, that's a big and right there,

(20:24):
you know. I mean it was like never got old,
very simple minded. And so I said, you know, Elvis
had a billion dollars, he was he had televisions on
the ceiling with shag carpet on this and he's shooting
at the televisions. I mean, that's right right now, you
don't it doesn't have anything to do with redneck money.
You've got right.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
So, when you first met all these other fellow comedians
when your career was starting out, people were, you know,
dogging you for your accent.

Speaker 4 (20:52):
What was the turning point? Do you remember like a time.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
Where you know, maybe you proved some of these people
wrong or something, or you realize that, hey, despite you know,
I'm gonna be myself and do this, but now it's
working and it's successful.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Well, you know, even to this day, like when young
people come up and they say, at what should I do?
I say, do do? You? Don't try to do Nate Bergotzi,
don't try to do Jim Gaffe. You you talk about
the things you know and the things you do. And
even back then, for me, it was like if I

(21:30):
pretend to be cool, it's not I'm not gonna pull
it off. I'm not I'm not cool. But I was
very fortunate because I found kind of the template for
what worked for me, and that was I just figured
if I thought something, or if my wife said something,
or if my family did something. I was going to
just trust other people were thinking and saying and doing

(21:53):
the same things. I did a joke on the last special,
I said active Life. Out of all the cereals, Captain
crunch is the most time intensive. Here's what I'm talking about.
If you eat it too soon after you pour the
milk on, you will rip the roof of your mouth
to shreds. You wait too long after you pour the

(22:13):
milk on, and the captain will put a film on
your teeth a wirebrush can't get rid of. And Imber
I just had that thought one time. It's like, what
the hell is this film that Captain crunch gives you
if you let it sit too long? Yeah, that was
a thought I had. So I just trust that thought
enough to throw it out there, and now people are laughing.

(22:34):
I'm like, oh, I'm not the only person to ever
think that, And so that's kind of my creative process.

Speaker 4 (22:40):
I guess you think with Captain crunch, like as many
chemicals as probably in there already, you just had a
few more.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
In the like. There's such a fine line on Captain crunch.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
Because if you go too early they knew this, they
should they do.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
That, they do. I bet they've talked about it.

Speaker 4 (22:58):
Yeah, and they sent you like a bunch of boxes
of it. Nothing gotten, the new red, nothing out of it.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Damn, you've been doing this for a long time, said
forty years, which is I mean, that's impressive, that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
I've been very lucky the most comics. Most comics do
stand up so they can get it into TV or movies.
It's like a springboard, and then they don't you want
to do this? To me, this was always the top
of the mountain. Yeah, I've done TV and movies. I'm
in We've even even enjoyed doing those things. But to me,
this was if you put a gun in my head

(23:32):
and said you can't do but one thing, it would
always be stand up. What makes you want to do though? God,
I don't know. There's just for one thing. It's it's
like a woman you can't figure out now, Like if
you laid carpet for thirty years, if that was your job,

(23:53):
you would know. Hey, when I'm in the corner, this
is how I do a corner. When I get the stairs,
this is how I do the stairs. After forty years,
I still don't know what they're going to laugh at.
So if I'm working on news stuff and I and
I always write stuff on note cards and then I'll
go down to the club on a Tuesday night and
try it out. If I put a star beside it,

(24:15):
meaning I think this is gonna kill, it almost always dies.

Speaker 4 (24:20):
It's a big turb You just personally like this one.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
I just think it's funny. Yeah, but you would think
after forty years, I would know what they're going to
laugh at it? What they what they're not going to
laugh at? What I mean? And sometimes I think, oh,
this is stupid, and I throw it out there and
they're snot known themselves, and you're like really, but but
that makes it fascinating to me that I can't It's

(24:44):
like a woman you can't figure out.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
It's like, yeah, crap, that's what keeps you You you
like that challenge?

Speaker 2 (24:50):
Then I do, clearly, Yeah, that's what makes it interesting.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
I think it's mostly because of you know, people are
evolving and things are changing. Or is it that you know,
you never really fee completely certain about what it is
you're writing until you execute and see what happens.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
Or yeah, I think that's a lot Seinfeld said one time,
it's like every night, it's like walking on a tightrope
over the fire. There's some weird thing within us that
we thrive on that. I mean, it's like as a hunter,
I bowhunt because I want to do it the hardest way. Yeah,

(25:26):
I think that's the hardest way to do it. But
I feel like if I could pull it off doing that,
then I've done something and creatively, Like I tell my
musician friends, I said, if you write four hits, you're
going to play to you're ninety years old, because people
are always going to come to hear those four songs. Absolutely.
They may like your other music and they may, but

(25:47):
they want to hear those four songs. And comedy is
the exact opposite. If like in the old days, when
I would do a CD or an album or whatever,
or if I did a special, people go, oh that
was funny. What do you have that's new? Yeah, so
you're all they don't want to hear the greatest hits.
They want to hear the new stuff, and crap, it

(26:07):
gets hard. I mean you can't. You can't say, hey,
I'm just going to go in there and do this
bit from twenty years ago because they've heard it, they
want something new.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
How do you get used to having to keep going
back at it again and again and try to.

Speaker 4 (26:26):
Make something better? Because you clearly did this have done.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
This throughout your career. Not everyone's capable of doing that or.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Wants to do that, But how did you keep coming
back to the table, the drawing board and putting out
something else and trying something different?

Speaker 2 (26:42):
I mean, there was always a work ethic, I guess
to it. It's like kind of do it again, kind
of do it again, And like comics are where comics
are probably not like people. I think most people think
they would be good goofballs. Like somebody said to me
one time, Oh, I'd love to go to a party

(27:03):
with you, I said, You'd be so disappointed because you
think I'm going to be standing in the middle of
the room making everybody laugh, I said, But in reality,
I'm the guy standing in the corner watching other people
and creating something in my creating a story in my
mind off of what I'm hearing and see it. It's

(27:26):
how you are today, It's still is that how you
really are in real life? Yeah, And I think most
comics are like that. I mean you've got a few
that would be in the middle. Bob Newhart said one time,
he said, we're like magpies. We sit on the edge
of the gutter on the house and we just watch,
and when we see something shiny we like, we fly
down and we get it and we come back and
put it in our pile. And whether it's a combination

(27:49):
of words or an imitation of the way somebody walks,
or an observation about somebody's treat and that's what we do,
is we just we're observers. Most of us are very curious,
want to know stuff. Big readers in most comics I know,

(28:10):
can talk about a lot of subjects because they're just interested,
which is probably you know how I got interested in
this genre that you do is back in those early
I did eight years in a row. I did five
hundred shows a year, at least five hundred. How do
you even do that? There's not many days. Yeah, but

(28:32):
you're like, you know, if you're in New York, you're
doing two or three places on Friday night, three or
four places on Saturday night. You know, if you're playing
at a club somewhere, you might have two or three.
So I was literally on the road just all the time.
And this is way before cell phones, way before iPads,
and so you were a missing person the whole time.

(28:53):
I was a missing person, But I read. I would
read two, three, four books a week. And I think
the first one I ever read in this genre, I
was was watching something on the news about Ted Bundy,
and then I'm in the you know, the airport bookstore,
and there's the book The Stranger Beside Me, and and

(29:16):
and I read the first Bundy book and then I
was like, I was hooked. Why were you so intrigued
by that? You know, the fact that ay that it
he was so invisible, Yeah, that he got that, he
got away with that. I've always wondered It's like, what

(29:39):
craziness is in me that I like true crime so much?
It's like, if I what.

Speaker 4 (29:45):
Have you found out?

Speaker 2 (29:50):
I think it's accommodation of a lot of things. I think,
like I used to say as a comic that everybody's
family is crazy, everybody, even the one at this point
you look at and you think, oh god, that's a
great family. They're like, no, they're just as crazy as
they're really good at covering it up.

Speaker 4 (30:11):
Yeah, they make it look cute on the outside.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
So I would always tell people here said, here's my advice.
Every year, at least once a year, go to the fair,
just so, just so you'll feel better about your own family.
Because you get in the fair and you start to
have a really nice start. Looking around, you're like, hell,
we're all right.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
Man, you're those rides they have there too, which I
don't know why we just put up with this forever.

Speaker 4 (30:35):
They pack those things up and they take them somewhere else. Yes,
they're the scariest.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
No certification, no training to run the ride. Yeah, you know,
the indication it's a good ride. The only two places
on the planet where vomit are. The indication of a
good time is outside the fraternity house and outside the
right at the fair, you know, it's like time, like hey,

(31:03):
let's do this one, you know. But yeah, but you
see these people at the fair and you're like, oh
my god, where do these people live the right?

Speaker 4 (31:12):
Where have they been hiding? They live in this county?

Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah, And I think there's something about true crime because everybody,
you know, we all beat ourselves up. And then you
hear about a guy that cut twenty people's heads off,
and you're like, you know what, I'm okay, I'm I'm
not that pretty good guy. Yeah, So I think there's
that component of it. I get fascinated. It's like, I

(31:39):
think I would like to be a detective, really if
I wasn't a comic.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
We said, he already kind of you know, you're a
guy in the room and a party who's observing, right, so
you're clearly, you know, looking at human nature or personality
and trying to figure out people and why they tick
or something.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
Well, it's like when I listen to a podcast when
it begins, a lot of times I'll put it on
paulse and go, all right, what would I do first?
If you murge somebody? Huh? If you no?

Speaker 3 (32:06):
No?

Speaker 2 (32:06):
If I'm the cop and they find here's this though
we all have thought of that, if I had to
get rid of somebody away, how would I do it? Yeah?
But no, it's like when when you walk into the
ice cream shop and there's three people dead and I
sit there and I'll hit pause and go what would
I do? What would I do first? How would I

(32:29):
figure this out? So I think there's that component of it.
There's a there's a justice component of it because I
love justice. I don't like seeing people get especially innocent
people getting screwed over. Yeah, and that's probably from growing
up in hateful Georgia on the wrong side of the tracks, right,

(32:50):
It's like I've always kind of had a heart for
the underdog guy, and so I just think it's a
lot of things. Gosh, if if left to myself, it
is like people always want to see behind the curtains.
If you come on the road with me, what do
you do during the day. I'm usually sitting in my

(33:10):
hotel room watching Ida or something, you know, or forensic files.
I'm like, what is wrong with me that this is that?
This is enter dainy.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
I mean, so you said that you were reading books
on the road. Yeah, that was kind of your first
I guess in the true.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
Crime we didn't have podcasts, you didn't have you had
three TV stations. There were true crime books about someone
like Bundy. I remember one time I was working in Chicago,
I think at the Funny Bone in Naperville, and I
was working with a real funny guy named Mark Roberts
from the Midwest, and at the time I was reading
I can't even remember the name of the book, but

(33:47):
it was the ed gean and so we're you know,
you're staying in a comedy condo. We're probably making three
or four hundred bucks a week. Yeah. And so we're
walking to lunch somewhere, and I'm and I've gotten to
the good part of the book. So I'm walking with
Mark down the down the sidewalk. But I'm like, Mark, Mark,

(34:08):
you got to hear this. So it's like, Okay, when cops.
When cops went into his house, they found eight soup
bowls made out of human skulls. They found a belt
made out of nipples. They found the chairs in the
dining room were made out of bones and human skin.
And I remember Mark because it sounds almost like a

(34:34):
segment on the TV show. It's like Green Gen Crafts
with Geen. Okay, today we're going to make a living
room set. It sound so nice, make a living room
set out of your aunt fellas, you know. But I
think sometimes, all right, Jeff, you have bad thoughts. It's like, no,
I don't look at somebody and think their skull make

(34:56):
a really good suit bowl, you know.

Speaker 4 (34:58):
So if you did what you tell me, would you would?

Speaker 2 (35:01):
Yeah? No, I don't think that kind of stuff. Yeah,
And let's get that's like a depravity that's like, where
does that? I think we're curious about that, right, and
just one do that? Right? Hey, how can somebody do that?

Speaker 3 (35:15):
Be?

Speaker 2 (35:16):
What would where do they have that thought? Yeah? Where
is the thought going from? Going? You know, would make
a good say there's you get there? Borders really close
to comedy because it's so extreme. It is so extreme. Yeah,
but that's kind of what comics are. Truth tellers. Comics

(35:38):
it's our job to stuff up and go why do
we do this? Why does this happen? And there's something
about that going why the hell would you look at
somebody and think, you know, I'll make a suit bowl
out of your skull? Right? Where does that thought come from? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (35:57):
I thought there's a fine line.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
Even just in my career as a podcaster, I've thought
about this a little bit where if I'm you know,
deep investigating an unsolved murder or something, and I'm you know,
kind of getting in the mind of this you know,
perpetrator or something or this person of interest, I start
to see this sort of weird fine line between like

(36:20):
the good guy and the bad guy or something where
my own curiosity about how he would think or what
he would do if it made sense, trying to make
sense of it in some way and what he's doing.

Speaker 4 (36:32):
It's like we're just on different sides of.

Speaker 2 (36:35):
And sometimes it's a really fine line.

Speaker 4 (36:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
I mean, like go back to so the terror Grinstead thing,
that's just probably two guys in a drunken moment making
a bad decision that escalates like a snowball down a hill. Yep. Now,
so let me ask you this. So from your side

(37:00):
of it, when you start pulling that thread, you have
no idea if there's going to be a satisfactory end
at the end of it, not at all. Does that
as you're going through it, do you think, oh crap,
this may end up being nothing.

Speaker 4 (37:18):
I mean, you definitely have those moments of I mean,
it's maddening, I'll put.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
It that way.

Speaker 4 (37:22):
It's as a storyteller innately, that is maddening to not
be in control of the ending in that way.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, but it also psychos make a joke without that ending,
like a joke without a punchline. Yeah, exactly, you're doing
the whole setup.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
But yeah, yeah, I've learned over the years that if
I can get enough things lined up and avenues to
go down. I can see some sort of ending that
will be satisfactory at the bare minimum. If I've become
convinced that these individuals did this, then I can do

(38:03):
as much as I can to prove.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
That well, you know, and I mean I think what
you accomplished in that story probably propelled podcasts so far,
because then people that were listening with were like, hell,

(38:25):
I might be able to be part of the solution
of this. Yeah, but did you ever have trepidation as, Hey,
I'm poking a hornet's nest here, and this my backfire
on me?

Speaker 4 (38:35):
Oh one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
I mean when I.

Speaker 4 (38:37):
First started, I was like, this is pretty scary.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
I shouldn't be doing this. Why am I poking around something?
Other people that did this may just drive by and
shoot me going out there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
But in the headspace I was in, though I felt
like I had nothing to lose in my life.

Speaker 4 (38:51):
Hit that point, my mom would probably be like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:54):
Your life.

Speaker 4 (38:54):
I'm like, yeah, Mom, but like, my life's not going
so well right now.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Right.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
I felt like a failed artist or something, and so
I really kind of was willing to take that risk.
He got the most serious once the arrests were made
because I had a choice then to either hang it
up and just let it happen, or keep investigating this
now that I have two prime suspects to look into.
And I decided to keep going, and I doubled down again,

(39:21):
and we learned a lot more about oh a lot
what really happened. And that was a conscious decision that
was probably the scariest because now law enforcement was stay
out of my way, right, thanks, but go away.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Now, stay out of my way. Even though the work
you were doing kind of got them to the point
of being able to make the arrest.

Speaker 4 (39:45):
Yeah, like we'll take it from here.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
I was like okay, and I you know, I really
I've said this a few places. But all the years
later when they finally had the trial, Ryan Duke was
found not guilty, and I was really just blown away
that the five years after these arrests, they did really
no other work to convict this guy. They really just

(40:08):
kept the same exact narrative, like they were too stubborn
about it, and every like every detail that we brought
up in the podcast and up and vanished that kind
of poked a hole in it. Ye say, hey, that
was for you guys to look at and consider and
run with it. I'm not trying to, you know, damage
your case. But that's exactly what the defense did, was

(40:28):
use that kind of information that was that they could
find on their own too, right, It was just the truth.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yeah, I mean, it's yours is a little bit. At
least as a comic I have, I have a little
more control of how something ends totally. You know, while
we both love a story, I get to lead mine
more than yours kind of leads you.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yeah, I think that there's probably two different types of pressure,
because I mean, to me, that's one of the most
maddening parts about it. But I would imagine for a comedian,
the pressure to get up here and make you laugh
or do you even look at it like that?

Speaker 2 (41:10):
Is it still like that to you?

Speaker 4 (41:12):
Or are you just going to do your thing and
you're just going to let it be what it is?

Speaker 2 (41:16):
Yeah? I think you have to have a little bit
of that. You have to have. I remember one night,
I've probably been doing it two or three years, and
I was on stage in Jacksonville and just for a
split second, I had the thought, what makes you think
what you have to say is more important than the
other three hundred people in this room. Wow. And then

(41:39):
I immediately went, you need to lock that in the base.
You need to go ahead. You're not going to be
able to do this. So I don't think i've ever now.
It's like you and I could be sitting here like
this and there could be fifty thousand people out there,
and if somebody came in and said, Jeff, you're on,
I'd be okay, I'll be back in an hour. Yeah.

(42:02):
I don't even think about it. Yeah. Yeah, but that's
probably from having some success to it and forty years. God,
if you're still scared though. I know guys like that.
I know guys that have been doing it twenty or
thirty years and they still throw up before they go on. Wow,
And I'm like, find something else to do.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
He had forty years to get a new job. Yeah,
you must really like this.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
So what do you think it is that makes people
so interested in true crime? I think it's the curiosity.
I think that's the curiosity of why somebody would do that, or.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
I mean I think it's different for everybody, but generally speaking,
the curiosity as to why someone would do that, because
it's just infathomable, like, how could your brain go there
to do something so wrong. And then also maybe from
a preventative measure of if this was some wolf in
sheep's clothing and he was out here doing this for
years detected, right, some Ted Bundy type guy, What were

(43:04):
the signs of that?

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Right?

Speaker 1 (43:06):
Like, how could I spot something like that? Even if
he's not a serial killer? What if he's just a
bad dude?

Speaker 4 (43:12):
And how do I, you know, what can I learn
from this?

Speaker 2 (43:16):
I think there's some of that in all of us
that are like, because we we want the bad guy
to look like the bad guy. Of course, you know,
easier that way. I think it's easier for my generation
over my children, we knew bad guys wore black and
white stripe suits and that black mask over their eyes.
You know, That's how you knew somebody was a bad guy.

(43:37):
Every time time running around here, they go ahead on
the black and white striped suit and the mask over
his eyes.

Speaker 4 (43:42):
He was a bad, big bag with a big dollar
sign on it.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yep. Yeah. But I think there's part of us that
it's like, all right, how do I avoid this happening
to me? Yeah? But there's also part of us I
really think that wants to solve the puzzle.

Speaker 4 (43:59):
Oh, for sure, the puzzle. What do you mean, though,
how do you catch these people?

Speaker 2 (44:05):
Yeah? And and I was thinking this morning, knowing I
was coming to talk to you, I'm like, holy cow,
the cops in the fifties and sixties are the thirties
and they didn't have fingerprints, that didn't have DNA, you're
getting everything. How did they solve a case they didn't? Well,
there's a guy down there, he kind of he looked

(44:28):
a little bit like him hang him, you know what
I mean, A whole lot of proof. Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
No, it's kind of hard to look back and imagine that.
I mean, these days, I feel.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
Like it's a lot harder to get away with murder.
Oh a lot harder. I was. Uh. I was riding
with a buddy the other day and he asked me
out of the blues, like, all right, if you were
going to kill somebody you know comes up eventually one day,
because how would you do it? Yeah? And I said, well,
the hard thing nowadays is there's cameras everywhere everywhere, everywhere,

(45:02):
you you know, aside from riding down the road and
popping somebody walking down the south road with a Gaskin.
I don't know that you. Yeah, there's what do you do?
But yeah, you know, think about the cops that soft cases,
before fingerprints, before DNA, before cameras, before phones that tracked
our every movement.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
Yeah, you got to be very conscious you're probably being recorded,
even when you don't think you are. Every house in
the neighborhood's got to ring camera. There's just stuff.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Everywhere, I don't know where. You're not susceptible, and yet
people are still doing bad.

Speaker 4 (45:39):
And they're still getting away with.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
That gen yeah, and still getting away with it. But
I almost think now the ones that get away with it,
it's just they're incredibly lucky. Oh.

Speaker 4 (45:49):
Absolutely, it's not some genius out there. There's dumb luck.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Yeah, it's absolutely dumb luck. Yeah. Ye try that again, yeah,
and we'll see what happens.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
I was recalling some of the stuff you did back
in the day, and I remember the the Are You
Smarter Than.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
A Fifth Grader? Show?

Speaker 4 (46:07):
And I just thought this morning, I go, you know what,
I'm not.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
I'm not smarter than a fifth grader, I think, at
least not the ones on that show.

Speaker 4 (46:15):
I mean, are those the smartest fifth graders on Earth?

Speaker 2 (46:18):
Or no that we we they were really we would
do a nationwide search and they just wanted they wanted
fifth graders with good personalities that were smart. That one
like they were going around going, we want the genius kids.
But it's like when Mark Burnett called me about that,
he said, would you would you? Would you? He's got

(46:39):
that English kind of that alstray. He said, would you
be interested in hosting a game show? And I'm like, no,
I don't think so. I said, it's too cheesy. I
don't want to do a game show because I was
picturing Wink Martindelle, you know, or something that big Mike
with that yeah whim loser and uh and I and

(47:02):
I asked him, I said, what's what's the premise of
the show. He said, adults taking an elementary school test
for a shot at a million bucks. And I just
started laughing. I said, that's stinking brilliant. Yeah, because everybody's
going to think they can do it. If I'm like,
I'll give you an elementary school test, You're like, I

(47:22):
be sure, yeah, But and you realize very quickly it
was like, when's the last time you you know? I
At one point when when we were doing rehearsals. I'm like,
all right, why is it that my brain kept all
the lyrics to the Gilligan's Island theme song, but it
deleted everything about triangles, you know, because there was a

(47:44):
question about a Isoceles triangle and I'm like, oh, I
knew that at one point in my life, but I
have no idea what an Isoceles triangle is.

Speaker 4 (47:52):
Yeah, you know room in there for that kind of stuff.
Less you're an engineer.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
Right, you can only say you ever had.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
To use that though, and you're life. No, no, do
you even know what it is today? I don't what
I saw the lease triangle?

Speaker 4 (48:07):
No, like the Pythagorean theorem, Yeah, I know the word,
don't know what that is?

Speaker 2 (48:13):
I a SIRIU. I'm like, what's the siri? To? Was like,
there's you have a pie in your ear? And what's
the I don't even know with the Pythagoreaean theorem, that's
not pie though, right, it's not.

Speaker 4 (48:24):
No, you weren't cut this. See we're definitely not smarter
than questions.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
And if it was, what is pie?

Speaker 4 (48:30):
I know it's three point one four and it goes
a lot longer than that lot longer.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
No, clue what else it is? How does it relate
to the equation? No idea.

Speaker 4 (48:38):
See, that's what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
That's why that show worked. And it was funny because
they didn't they didn't have a problem with given away
the money. They went before the show and they were like,
this lady's really smart. We might be given away a
million bucks today and she'd go out on a second
grade grammar question.

Speaker 4 (48:55):
You know, No, it's a it's a brilliant show and yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (48:59):
So you were quickly like no game show host to.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
And told me that. I'm like, that's well, because I thought, well,
I can be funny without being me. I mean, I
didn't want to make fun of people, but you know,
when somebody doesn't know a question that seven year olds
are answering, you can come yeah, but it's yeah, it's
good natured fun. Well, you're an adult, so it's okay.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
And you thought you could win, that's why you came here.
So there's a little bit of yeah, yourself thought.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
This was going to be easy, uh huh. Yeah. And
now now here's a little behind the scenes thing. So
I had a thing in my ear because the shows
were they were timed to fit so like in the
I had a little thing in my ear, and so
they were time in each segment for the where to
put the commercials in. So they might say to me, hey,

(49:47):
Jeff asked the question, but go to commercial before you
reveal the answer. So that was in the early days.
By the time year six year old around, they'd be
in my ear, going, look at the sweat stains on
this fatty over here. You know, holy yeah, this guy,

(50:07):
look at the pit stains on the And I'm two
feet away from the guy talking to him, and they're
in my ear. Just you know, you're like, stop it
trying to get you a crack. Yeah, Oh, they're trying
to make me laugh.

Speaker 4 (50:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just I've been thinking a lot
about you know, comedy.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
I'm a huge fan of comedy, and I feel like
it's it's changed a lot over the last couple of decades,
even just the climate around it. Right, just what it's
okay to say, what isn't okay to say? And I
know it's like a weird issue that is kind of
it can be looked at like this or that. I

(50:49):
feel like it would make it more challenging sometimes because
sometimes jokes are offensive but maybe that's why it's funny.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
I was gonna say that, right, It's like that was
the point, but maybe they're really funny.

Speaker 4 (51:03):
Yeah, yeah, So what I did to dance that you
do well?

Speaker 2 (51:08):
I like even over the the course of my career,
like because I did a lot of relationship material, and so,
like twenty years ago, I might have done something go,
why do women do this but guys do this? Then
you'd have people going, well, I'm a woman and I
don't do that, or I'm a guy, I don't do that.

(51:29):
So what I would do, I went, you know, I
will do this, but then my wife will turn around
and do that. So I'm like, all right, I'm not
make it general. It's me and my wife. But it's
almost gotten to the point now it's and probably younger

(51:49):
comics don't feel like this, but for the guy that's
been doing it, it's not as much fun as it
used to be because I think people don't laugh at
themselves as easily as they used to. Okay, yeah, and
here's my theory. I think we're all idiots. Yeah, nobody

(52:10):
has life figured out. I mean, I don't care who
you are, nobody has it figured out. Every Day every
one of us is coming to a thousand forks in
the road and using our best guests, we're going left
or right. We don't have it figured out, but we
kind of live in an age where everybody has to
be right. So if you say something, then on social media,

(52:33):
you're you're either wrong or right. You're either you're getting attacked. Well,
when when they have to be right, that means you
have to be wrong. Well, nobody wants to engage in
a conversation like that. So what you do is you
walk away, you shut down, and you walk away, and
we've lost any gray.

Speaker 4 (52:50):
Area in your perspective. How do we get here?

Speaker 2 (52:53):
It's like everybody with the Internet, everybody got a voice. Yeah,
whether you were educated on the subject or not.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
Right, it's not about people having everyone being able to
have a voice. It's some of these people.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
Are dumb. Well, that's it life. Yeah, you're you're, you're
you're on telling people, you know. It's like anytime somebody
tells me anybody acts like they have God figured out,
that's immediately a red flag to me. Though. It's like

(53:32):
I know you you're an idiot. I saw you run
over your trash can back and out of your driveway.
If you can figure God out, then God's not that
cool because you're an idiot. But we've kind of done
that in area every area of our lives, where people
speak with authority on the Internet on things they they

(53:54):
have no education or research about, and we've become a
skimming societ. And like I will say this like critical thinking.
And I tell other comics and for those listening when
I say critical thinking, that that doesn't mean being critical

(54:16):
of something. It means thinking to the next layer and
the next layer in the next layer. So like when
you're writing comedy, the setup is the part with no payoff.
That's there's no laugh in a setup, but it's you
have to have it to get to the point to
where you get the laugh. And so I tell other comics,

(54:37):
I'm like, if you're going to go to all the
trouble to write the setup and then you get the
laugh while you're there, before you move to the next setup,
look at it and go is there another laugh here?
Is there another laugh? Here? Is? So that's critical thinking.
Let me think it down another layer, Let me think
it down. Like Jim Gaffigan is a great example of that,

(54:59):
where you where he can do a bit on hot pockets,
or he can do he can do twenty minutes on bacon. Yeah.
You know, if I told you write me twenty funny
minutes on bacon, you'd write, run out real quick, twenty seconds.
But it's because he's just set there. And well, as
a society, we don't and you know this in your business,

(55:20):
we don't. If you're looking at a YouTube video and
it's over six minutes, now, somebody looks at it goes
thirty minutes. Hell, are you watching that? Are you like that? Yeah?
I'm kind of like that. Yeah, But you know that's
like if a young comic asked me for advice, I said,

(55:41):
I can give you advice on how to write a joke.
I can give you advice on how to set up
a thing, but as far as the way the business goes,
Like when I started, all I wanted to do was
to be on Johnny Carson. But there were only three
TV channels in the world, and if you weren't a
comedian on Johnny Carson, you were in the upper one

(56:01):
percent of what you did and it literally changed your life.
That your life that night. I mean, I do it
the next week. Casinos in Vegas are like, do you
want to headline for no other reason than I made
Johnny laugh and he called me to the couch. Wow.
And so it was a career changer. And then you

(56:22):
had records, you had albums, and then you had specials,
you know, and well now nobody buys records. Yeah, now
nobody buys DVDs.

Speaker 4 (56:34):
You had platinum comedy albums multiple yeah, which is an
old idea at this point, three or.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Four time crazy to speak about it, right, Yeah. So yeah,
like the first two I did, both of them have
sold almost four million copies of piece. It's insane. Now
if you have a comedy record and it sold fifty
thousand copies, it would be through the roof smash hit.
So that's what I'm saying. The business has changed some.
I can't if you start a comedy in themar and

(57:03):
said help me, yeah, I'm like, I can help you
write jokes, I can't help you do the because now
with the Internet, everybody's got a slice of pie. So
you get exposure, but it's not as big of a
slice of the pie. Twenty years ago, if you did
a record, you were part of the one percent.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
Well, now just breaking through and being able to do that, right,
but now you feel like it's.

Speaker 4 (57:30):
Kind of saturated in that way. Or just if you're
really talented and you're.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Really talented hard, I'm going to find your way to
the top eventually. Right, it's just a different path than
the path, yeah, like I mean, I mean, it's probably
in what you do. If you're good at a podcast,
and you know, I love the stuff you do, but

(57:54):
I listen to all kinds of stuff. Well, through that,
I'm able to judge these people are good, these people
are not so good? Right, these people tell a good story.
These people don't tell a good story, you know. And
I can't tell you how many podcasts, true crime podcasts
I've started that ten minutes into the first episode, I'm like,

(58:15):
I'm bailing. Yeah, too much of a commitment. This is
not good. Well is a commitment? It is because I'm
giving away my time, Oh yeah, totally to.

Speaker 4 (58:25):
Devote and you're like racking your brain on some puzzle.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
Yeah, right, is it going to be worth it? But
when when somebody's good at it, you become you're taking
that journey with them to the point, you know, like
me and my daughters are texting each other at night
about did you hear the latest up in Vanish? What

(58:50):
do you think about that? What do you so it
becomes not just your story, but you're sharing it with
other people, kind of like the whole Murdof thing became,
you know, where everybody in the country is texting at
each other. Yeah. Huge, Yeah, So it's interesting what did
you think you were gonna do.

Speaker 4 (59:12):
At which at which stage before you started this?

Speaker 2 (59:14):
Because I know when I listened to the thing on
and by the way, anybody out there, term podcaster is
really good. It's a weird title, but it's really good.
It's like how somebody is what would you call it? Well,
it made totally it turned It made total sense once
I listened to it. But I'm like, what the heck

(59:35):
does that mean? Turn? Podcast? But so before you did it,
where where did you think you were going to land?

Speaker 4 (59:42):
I didn't really know.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
But what I had pictured in my head was I
had just viewed myself as a filmmaker storyteller in that way,
and I'd been doing short films and stuff my whole life,
so that was kind of part of my identity, and
I felt like a failed filmmaker. And I decided one

(01:00:05):
day that Hey, I'm really into true crime and this
investigative journalism. How does one become that? Did they just
decide one day that I want to do that? And
I just thought, well, I want to do that, so
I'm going to try. And I just listened to Cereal
and I was blown away that I could be that
enthralled by an audio story, because you know, my ADHD brain.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
I was like, Wow, that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
So I thought, maybe if I could make a podcast
because I know how to edit, because I edited all
my music videos and stuff, I.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Could do it for cheap.

Speaker 4 (01:00:40):
That would be a stepping stone proof of concept to
do this bigger film documentary idea I have.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
That's all it was to me.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
I didn't look at it as a career path or anything,
but a hey, this is working. So maybe these Hollywood guys,
whoever they are, however that happens, will take a shot
on me to do a docuseries or a TV show
or something.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
All right, So since you started that is your dream
of what you want to do changed?

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
No, I think that I added another layer to it.
I realized that, hey, this podcasting thing is kind of fun.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
The creative liberty I have is not.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
To be taken for granted because even at the highest
level of some HBO series, I'm going to take a
back seat a little bit in the creative control.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
I would imagine right, well, in my career, the thing
I enjoyed the least not the people, but what's the sitcom?
Because I had a sitcom for a few years in
the mid nineties. But they were like, they didn't even
want me in the writing room. They were like, and

(01:01:58):
I'm like, well, who knows it's the Jeff Foxworthy show.

Speaker 4 (01:02:02):
Which is bizarre, hard to understand, but I totally get yoursel.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
But they were like, I'm like, who knows Jeff Foxworthy
better than Jeff fox Not Jeff. It was me writing
about me that made you give me the show, And
they were like, well, this is TV, you know, And
so you know. Then I get the script on Monday
and I'm reading it going, oh, this is not good.
I wouldn't say this on stage, So that was the

(01:02:26):
least fun part. But like, for you see, I think
you have to be your game has to be better
to do a podcast, to make somebody follow a story
on a podcast, It's well, it's like with me as
a comic, if I don't have the benefit of you

(01:02:47):
seeing me, you know, are making it look real pretty,
or me raising an eyebrow and do in a funny face.
If you can't see me, if I just have to
make you laugh with my words, Yeah, I got to
work harder.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
Yes, that's actually a great example the your comedy audio.

Speaker 4 (01:03:11):
You can't lean on that visual component of.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
Not at all, just the physical or something right, even
what I might be doing on stage, because I was
always kind of physical and would roll on the floor
and you're not doing that on a record. Yeah, you're
not doing that on the railway. Do you make it?

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
Did you sharpen your tools from that?

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
You think? I think so, because there were and so,
like you're saying, it was just a different thing. I
learned to do comedy in a lot of different forms.
Like you had the live stand up show where I
could raise the eyebrow, do the funny face and run
around in a circle. But then you have the element
where you were making a recording where you couldn't do this.

(01:03:53):
Then I wrote like twenty something books. Well, reading it
is totally different than saying it, even though you might
be a redneck. Jokes the calendar, those they read differently
they do. There's some that are funny to read that
don't work as well when you try to say them,
and vice versa, and you know. And then I invented

(01:04:14):
a game on the spot. Like we were at Thanksgiving
and the kids, I say kids, they were all in
their twenties, but they were playing cards against humanity, whether
grandparents were there, in their aunts and uncle and I'm like,
you can't do this. You've got to go to the
basement or somebody's going to have a stroke. They get
the kitchen table. But literally, I was sitting there almost

(01:04:36):
probably like you with the podcast, and I'm going, all right, well,
why can't you have a funny game that you could
play in front of your aunts and uncles? Smart? And
I always keep stacks of note cards. And I went
in my office and I got like five hundred note
cards and I literally sat there that night while visiting

(01:04:57):
with people, and I wrote five hundred punchlines, five hundred
things that night that sound funny. They it's like, I
have one like that, but mine's green. I have mold
on my I have molded my cross space. It sounds funny.
What does it mean? You know? It's bad? Yeah, I

(01:05:20):
don't think I would touch that, you know whatever, And
so I wrote five hundred punchlines. And then I thought,
all right, what does everybody have in common? Everybody's family's
crazy everybody, So why don't you write a hundred setups
about families? Okay, so the setup might be right. Before
we walked down the aisle, Daddy leaned over to me

(01:05:41):
and whispered blank. So everybody at the cart has seven punchlines,
and they hear the setup, and they look through their
punchlines and they go this again. The biggest left. So literally,
in a day and a half, I made a game
and it was the Easies. You can learn to play
it in ten seconds. Yeah, but it made people laugh.

(01:06:02):
And I set the family cousins, grandparents down at the
table and handed out these note cards and said here's
how you play it. Play it, and I just recorded
them and they're laughing. Well, it ended up becoming the
number one game on Amazon, and I thought, it's family
relative Relative insanities the name of the game. So but

(01:06:25):
when I sat back I later I went, oh, well
that's cool. That's another way to make people laugh that
I didn't know how to id. I knew how to
do it in the written form. I knew how to
do it in the film form, but I didn't know
how to do it like in a game. Yeah. So,
but it's like your storytelling, Well, there's just different avenues

(01:06:49):
to tell stories. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
I mean for me, it was I didn't have the
crutch of the visual element of an establishing shot or
a expression on someone's face, or a mood or tone
in the lighting, stuff that I had gotten used to
using to tell stories like that or or just at all,

(01:07:11):
And so I had to kind of learn how to
do it without that and not feel like I'm beating
you over the head to over describe what's happening where
it feels like I'm trying to make up for that.
But I think just throughout my career of telling stories
that way, I got better at storytelling.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
And I think the vision, I think you got better
at it over the course of up and vanished. Yes, exactly. Yes,
Like so the guy at the newspaper there, Dusty dus
that what you're doing, you're you're making us make a
movie in our mind, and so you have to describe

(01:07:51):
whereas you're filming it. You don't necessarily have to describe Dusty.

Speaker 4 (01:07:54):
Very well, right right, you can see yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
Yeah, but you've so there's l elements of that. So
it's actually pretty cool that you've learned an entirely different
skill set all under that banner of storyteller.

Speaker 4 (01:08:09):
It is, and I think had I not.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
I don't think I had the ambition back then, but
I don't think I had the chops really to go
do some bigger TV thing that I wanted to do.
Just looking back at how I would craft a story
back then, I've had to do it in different ways
where now when I think visually or I have the
opportunity to, I'm thinking way differently about it. And there's

(01:08:33):
some sort of nuance to just the backbone of a
story that I strengthened in just practicing.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
Yeah, you've got more tools in your tool web. No, yeah, exactly.
Do you ever think about that as you're doing a podcast? Going?
All right, if I was to turn this into a
mini series or a movie, how would I do it?

Speaker 4 (01:08:52):
I still think very much visually.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
Yeah, And you know, the second I put out a
podcast back when I was releasing up in Vanished season one,
every week I was making them week to week, which
was really insane, and I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
And I mean, it's not like you have this place either. No, no,
it's you do. It was me up till well do
your grandma making you cookies?

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
Yes, exactly, and just broke as a joke and involved
in some murder story that everyone's talking about. It was
weird times. But I would, you know, upload the episode
and the next morning I get like three hours of sleep,
and I would listen to it one time once it
was already published, because I knew that it was too late.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
Now did you, however, I felt about it. Did you
hate the sound of your own voice?

Speaker 4 (01:09:42):
I did in the very beginning. I did to this day.

Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
Like if I go back, like I can't watch myself,
I don't like it either, really, But but if I
go back and listen to myself, I just crine, oh man,
Like I used to do the Tonight Show, which you
would film it in in La at four or five o'clock,
so we my wife would we'd go to have dinner,
and then we'd come home and people on the East

(01:10:07):
coast would see it and they would call, and you know,
then it would become West Coast time and I could
watch the whole thing. The monologue, and when it came
part for me to go, I would get up and
walk out of the room and just be like in
the bathroom, why yelling at my wife for you tell
me when it's over? Because I hated the way I sounded,

(01:10:28):
I hated the way I acted things out. I hated
the whole thing. And she's like, it's good, come back
in here. I'm like, nah, I don't want to see it.
I don't want to hear. Yeah, So having to be
you're on critique of yourself that had to be hard.
It was.

Speaker 4 (01:10:44):
I listened to it once and then never again. Yeah,
and I would remember.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
I wouldn't need a reminder of what I would change
or didn't like about that. I knew I didn't like
the way I said that or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
So do you think would you ever not do this,
like I said, even though I've gotten to do the
other things, I would always do stand up. Would I
ever not make podcasts? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
I think it's hard to say. I feel like, if
I were to answer it, just gun to the head here,
I'll probably always make podcasts to a.

Speaker 2 (01:11:17):
Degree, because you kind of talked your brain to work
that way a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
Yeah, And even if I went off on some amazing
film career stint, which is still just a dream of mine. Yeah,
I'm might do that for a decade and say, you
know what, I'm gonna make a podcast again. Yeah, And
so I think that that's always in the cards, and
it's something I've fell in love with and I also
respect because it would It's given me so many opportunities
to do anything else but a podcast, right, So I

(01:11:42):
respect it in that way.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
You know, podcasts are kind of intimate. M Yeah, in
that if I'm going to watch your film, I've got
to go to the theater, you know, our worst case,
I got to sit in my living room. But there's
but like when somebody's listened to you. They're listening to
you when they're getting out of the shower, they're listening
to you, when they're laying in the bed, they're listening

(01:12:05):
to you while they're making dinner. There's kind of an
when you get involved in a podcast, there's an intimacy
to it.

Speaker 4 (01:12:13):
You know, did you feel like you knew me in
some way?

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
Yeah? I mean I felt like because you were pretty
honest up front. It's like, hey, I don't know what
I'm doing, but I think this is a good story.
So you know, the the creative in me is rooting
for you A for I always tell my kids, I said,
if your life's going to be cool, you need a

(01:12:36):
few hold your nose and jump moments. Yeah, where you
don't know what's going to happen. I quit IBM to
be a comic, which is one my mother's first question was,
are you on the dope?

Speaker 4 (01:12:49):
Whatever the do not just dope the that dope?

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
Yeah? But yeah, and I went. I think the first
year I did comedy, I did four hundred and six
show that made eighty three hundred dollars. But there was
never a moment that that I thought, oh I made
a mistake, or I wish I hadn't done this, or
I should have staked. Did you ever have a moment
where you were going and maybe I shouldn't have done this?

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
I mean, small things here and there, nothing that would
never change.

Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
You were driving back and forth a lot. Oh yeah,
I was driving back and forth.

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
I mean there was I would change stuff in hindsight,
but I never felt regret of anything. The scariest thought
I've ever had is what if I didn't make a podcast?
What if I was too scared. I was too scared,
but I just did it. Anyways, doesn't mean I didn't
overcome my fear. I was still scared. I just did it.

(01:13:44):
Have you ever thought about what if I didn't quit?

Speaker 2 (01:13:46):
IBM? Yes, you know what kind of that's a scary thought.
You know what gave me. I was sitting because I
was weighing it back and forth. And you know, I mean,
it was a good job, right, It had had health benefits,
had dental but I knew I loved doing and I
was doing going around town at night doing stand up
and I knew I loved and I was sitting in

(01:14:09):
the breakroom. This was like a blessing from God. And
I'm sitting in the breakroom by myself one afternoon, and
there's three and I'm twenty four, and there's three like
guys in there's sixty sitting at a table across the
breakroom and I'm just listening to them slate in the afternoon.
And one of them goes, you know, I wish I'd

(01:14:30):
have bought a hardware store. I always dreamed about having
a hardware store. I think I would have loved to
have had a hardware store. And one of the other goes, well, yeah,
I wish i'd have done And I thought, I can
just see it now. I thought, I do not want
to be sitting in this breakroom when I'm sixty two
years old, going I wish I had tried to be

(01:14:53):
a comedian. Now, did I have any idea that you know,
ignorance is bliss. I didn't know the odds stacked against me,
but I thought I might get away with it for
a few years, and then I would have a cool
story to tell my grandkids to go, hey, your grandpa
was a comedian for a few years. But it was

(01:15:14):
a hold your nose and jump moment. You had no
idea what was going to happen. But and we kind
of live in a world where people always say, well,
you need to follow your passion. You need to follow
your passion. I've evolved on that because sometimes people have
passions for things that they're not good at.

Speaker 4 (01:15:33):
Like I tell them that, yeah, tell the pivot.

Speaker 2 (01:15:37):
I love music. I can't sing worth a crap and
I can't play an instrument. So maybe instead of following
your passion, you ask people what are you good at? Yeah,
what are you good? Well, since the time I was
a kid, I could always make people laugh. Yeah, to
the point I can't even take credit for it because

(01:15:57):
I don't know why I can do it. Yeah, you
could say to me, hey, I've got a T shirt
company and I need I need fifty shirts about home security,
and I could literally go in the corner with a pad.
In twenty minutes, I bring you back fifty T shirts. Yeah,
I don't know why I can do that. Yeah, I

(01:16:19):
can always have been Yeah, I can just do that.
So I can't even take any ego in it, because
but there's different when you're good at something and you're
a storyteller. You know, you said that in term partage,
that's what I do. Well, I've always been fascinated with stories.

Speaker 4 (01:16:39):
You Oh, I know.

Speaker 2 (01:16:40):
Really, Yeah, it's but you can do it in a
lot of different ways. You can do it as a filmmaker,
you can do it as a podcaster, you can do
it in the written form. Yep, just like I can
do what I do in a lot of different ways,
and it's kind of fun to explore a different way
to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:56):
Sometimes feels fresh again, it feels the challenges is refreshing.

Speaker 2 (01:17:00):
Sometimes, Like I thought I hated TV from the sitcom experience.
And then a few years later, when we were doing
the Blue Collar Comedy Tour, they said, hey, would you
like to do a sketch show like a Saturday Night Live?
And I loved it when I could walk in and go, hey,

(01:17:21):
I got an idea. I want to weigh four hundred
pounds and have Elvis sideburns.

Speaker 4 (01:17:25):
And they were like, yeah, let's do it, and you
can make that happen.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
And so I thought I hated television. What I hated
was playing somebody else's idea of who Jeff foxworthly was Yeah,
And I went on to enjoy a lot of things,
you know, fifth grade, a lot of things.

Speaker 4 (01:17:43):
But when you made that leap from IBM and into comedy,
you didn't know what level of success you would achieve
or even probably could achieve.

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
So that clearly.

Speaker 4 (01:17:57):
Wasn't the tipping point for you, right, some wet I thought, right.

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
I thought I could be good at it. Well that part,
now here's the thing. Only knew Atlanta. So I could
look at all the eight by ten's on the wall
of the punchline in Atlanta, and out of the five
hundred pictures there, I would say, hey, I'm not the
best one. But I might be number fifteen. Right now,
you're on the list, But I'm on the list out

(01:18:23):
of these five hundred, I know where I rank. The
problem came is then I would go to Chicago and
there would be five hundred pictures up that I'd never
seen before. Then I go to New York there were
a thousand more I'd never seen. Then I'd go to
LA and I'm like, holy hell, I had no idea this.
Many people were trying to do that. But I think

(01:18:43):
the advantage of having a job is I had a
work ethic. I always worked at it. I would tape
my show, i'd come back, I'd listen to it, I'd
make notes. My wife, bless her Heart, would go around
the country and sit in the back of the club
with a notepad and go, this is fuzzy, doesn't make
sense for yeah. And so I was always working at

(01:19:04):
it because I knew one day the bottom would fall out,
and I had to be above the cut line when
the bottom fell.

Speaker 4 (01:19:10):
What does that mean for you? You did the bottom
fall out?

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
Well, I knew the comedy club boom oh I see
was going to be oh it was nothing lasts forever,
and so I didn't want to be calling a club
in Minnesota and going, hey, you don't know me, but
and so I would drive to Minnesota and do it,
and they go, oh, Jeff's funny. That's smart, Jeff's funny.

(01:19:36):
So when the bottom falls out, they'll still book Jeff.
You know, I didn't know. I didn't know back then
that I would ever get out of the club days.
I just knew. I enjoyed it. I knew the first
minute and a half I did it. I'm like, oh,
this is what I was born to do. Yeah. I
was scared to death, but yeah, I'm like, oh I
found my purpose. You know. Let the old Mark Twain

(01:19:58):
thing two most important days of your life you were
born in the day you figure out why? Right? So true?
And I was like, literally, oh, this is why I
was born. This is what I'm good.

Speaker 4 (01:20:10):
I want to make a strange pivot here.

Speaker 2 (01:20:12):
Please, because we're not even talking about true crime podcast. Well,
we can talk about whatever we want, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:20:17):
I heard that you wanted to talk about the jfk assassination.

Speaker 4 (01:20:23):
Well in some way, shape or form.

Speaker 2 (01:20:25):
So my daughter was asking me how did I get
like interested in this kind of stuff? And I said, well,
I think it probably began with the JFK assassination. And
again kind of the same, that's probably true crime.

Speaker 4 (01:20:46):
It's like, it's definitely true crime, but.

Speaker 2 (01:20:53):
Ye did it. Maybe it's part of my job, is
that skepticism. It's yeah, but I mean of the official
narrative kind of thing. Yeah, it just stinks. It didn't
smell right. And I actually I felt bad for young
people today because I think there was a time for

(01:21:15):
us older people that somebody was telling us the truth
about some things, right, at least a few things, but
they took it to the grave or what well that
I don't know. My mom's eighty seven now, and I
told my brother not long ago, I said, you know,
if you live long enough, you'll find out a lot
of stuff about your family because your aunts and uncles

(01:21:38):
would just you know, your cousin Stevie was born out
of wedlock. It was like, no, I didn't know that.

Speaker 4 (01:21:43):
Now I do, Hey, Stevie, let's talk about this.

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
Yeah. But but but like young people now have been
lied to their whole lives. Do you feel like it
has an experiment the other by.

Speaker 4 (01:21:58):
Their parents or what by everybody everybody?

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
Did you ever watch the Vietnam war by uh Burns,
ken Burns, kN Burns, I have not seen that. No,
you need to go watch it because it's it's it's
Lyndon Johnson sitting in a meeting going all right, tonight,

(01:22:22):
we're gonna load up four hundred planes and we're bombing
the piss out of Hanoi tonight. And then he would
go on TV, my fellow Americans, there is no bombing
going on in Vietnam, and you're like, oh my god,
he's looking at you in the eyes and lying to you. Yeah.
So I don't even know what was the point. The

(01:22:42):
other night on stage, I asked the crowd, I go,
how many people trust your government? Not one people raise there?
I said, how many people trust the media? Not one
person raised their How many people trust advertise? And I'm like,
what does that say about us?

Speaker 4 (01:23:01):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
We used to, didn't we as human beings? Did you
trust the media when you were going? I did? I
thought Walter Cronkite was telling me the truth is it.

Speaker 4 (01:23:09):
Was it different back then? Or do we know too
much now?

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
Or I think it's maybe a little bit of both. Yeah.
You know, like my farm is down near Callaway Gardens. Well,
the older generation of the Callaway family. Franklin Roosevelt FDR
would come down to White House, Warm Springs. Yeah, down there, Well,

(01:23:34):
he would hang out with a Callaway family. And I
was talking to people down there that were saying, oh yeah.
When he would come down here for dinner, the Secret
Service guys would have to pick him up out of
the car and carry him up the stairs. And this
was the chair that he sat in because he had
polio could but the American public didn't know he had polio.
How did they pull that off? How did they pull

(01:23:56):
that off?

Speaker 4 (01:23:57):
I mean he was president for four terms.

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
I mean how do they take that off? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:24:02):
We believed everything back then.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
Yeah, but now, like watching that thing with Johnson, I'm like, hell,
they've always been lying to.

Speaker 4 (01:24:11):
Us, right, that's maybe that hasn't changed. We know more now. Also,
there's more ways to find that out.

Speaker 2 (01:24:16):
I think, yeah, there are, But what does that do
to us as human beings? When so, who do you trust?
Like to distrust? You mean, yeah, who do you truy?
You know? The media is lying to you know, advertising's
lying to you because advertising told you, Hey, if you'd
get this car, you'd be happy. And now you've got

(01:24:37):
the car, and you're not any happier than you were. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:24:40):
I just don't trust the media, I think at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:24:41):
And I mean I think for some people that might
be a lot harder because maybe they grew up trusting
it and it's hard to let go of. But I
think with what I do, I couldn't blindly trust that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
What do you think? Okay? So so so what does
that do us as human beings? I wish I did that.
We but which makes us? And maybe that's part of
the appeal of true crime. So we are so hungry
for the truth. Yeah, we're desperately hungry for the truth
who did this? Yeah? And maybe that's what true crime

(01:25:21):
gets at is we're going to find out who did this,
and here's an element of truth in this. Yeah. And
I think comedy is a little bit the same way
is once you take away and that's the danger of
this political correct age that we're going through. And what

(01:25:42):
I'm hoping is the pendulum's just swung. Yeah. Do you
feel like ways far one way?

Speaker 4 (01:25:47):
Chapter and a I don't know, large book that has
many more chapters that I hope so come around.

Speaker 2 (01:25:53):
Maybe you know the pendulum is too far this way?
And it needs to sure, but maybe not. I mean,
but once you take away a comedian being able to
tell the truth, there's no need for a comedian. Yeah.
If I've got a tiptoe around, I'd like I did
a thing on the last special. I said, you know,

(01:26:15):
when I was growing up, if you wanted a trophy,
you had to finish in first place. Well, I had
people go online and go, you bastard, you are the
Your generation is the or the people that gave my
generation the participation trophies. And I'm like, I didn't. I
wouldn't say I was. I clearly also got a participation trophy. Yeah. Well,

(01:26:35):
but I was staying in a fact in nineteen sixty eight,
if you wanted a trophy you had to finish in
first place. That is a fact. That's a fact.

Speaker 4 (01:26:44):
That's the truth. Yeah, no, I it's the truth.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
And when you take away that, yeah, then the joke's gone. Yeah,
and the joke is the comparative. You know, they're tech
with first place? Were you in the league? Yeah, here's
a trophy.

Speaker 4 (01:27:02):
Well, if you go see a rated AR movie, right,
you might see some brief nudity or here's some here
the F word.

Speaker 1 (01:27:11):
But you knew that going into it, right, it's rated R.
You go to a comedy show or you turn on
a comedy set, you're you're intentionally there. No one's drug
you here. Now you're saying, hey, I'm willing to participate
in whatever this is to a degree, Well.

Speaker 2 (01:27:29):
You know what made you watch it? And if you
can't laugh at yourself, it's like, right, you know, here's
the truth about human beings. We're all wrong about something.
You're wrong about some idea you have, You're wrong about something,
you're wrong about something, you're I'm wrong. And the truth
is we're wrong about a lot of something absolutely. So
if you will at least give yourself that grace to

(01:27:50):
go over the course of my life, I might change
my mind about a lot of things. Now I don't
have to be right. Yeah, And now you and I
can talk and I can listen to what you know,
and you can listen to what I know, and maybe
it changes my opinion a little bit or it changes yours. Yeah,
if you're willing to admit, hey, I don't know everything

(01:28:11):
and I might be wrong about something.

Speaker 1 (01:28:13):
Which is hard for some people. I think that no
one likes being wrong. It's not usually fun. If you
were to choose, hey, you have to be right or wrong,
you'd probably choose right because it is easier.

Speaker 2 (01:28:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:28:25):
So, like, no one wants to be wrong, but no
one is.

Speaker 2 (01:28:29):
Always right, right that no one's always right.

Speaker 4 (01:28:34):
Yeah, it's okay to be wrong too. I think that
being wrong is how you get smarter.

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
Well, you know, I was thinking about that, like as
opposed to to cases where people have been wrongfully convicted,
and those make for interesting podcasts. Absolutely, But how do
you eliminate the possibility of that happened? Is you have
to do away with the justice system, which is not
a good answer either, Right, Yeah, it just needs Sometimes

(01:29:02):
we're wrong. Sometimes we're wrong on a small level. Sometimes
we're wrong on a big level. Yep. But good lord,
I you know, I'm sixty five. Were there were things,
there were ideas that I vehemently believed forty years ago.
Give me one that I've totally changed my mind on. Well,

(01:29:24):
I just think I'm much I'm much more gray in
areas than I used to be. I told my kids,
I said, man, I missed my thirty year old body,
but I wouldn't trade my sixty year old mind to
get it back. Is there's just more gray, you know
you it's everybody's going through something. Everybody's going through a struggle.

(01:29:52):
It might be financial, it might be physical, it might
be emotional. And so my whole life I've tried to
be like, you know what, just have grace with people
because you don't know their story. And I think I
learned that from working at a homeless mission. Really, I
worked down at the Atlanta Mission every week for twelve years.

Speaker 4 (01:30:13):
So what you learn in that process? Then, well, like.

Speaker 2 (01:30:18):
The first guy ever, because I'm like, how do you
get a job? That was kind of always that's an.

Speaker 1 (01:30:25):
Easy just thought to have. That's kind of not considerate.

Speaker 2 (01:30:29):
Come on, quit being lazy to get a job. Sure,
the first guy I met when I was down there.
Now you're talking about downtown Atlanta, twenty one year old
white kid in the Homeless mission. And my first thought is, dude,
get a job, seriously. Stop. And his name was Jason.

(01:30:49):
And were sitting down there at the mission having lunch
and I asked him his story. I'm like, Jason, what's
your story? Like you like, what's your excuse? Is what
you're I was the idea, that's the implied, but it's
the same what's your story? How do you end up here?
And he goes, well, you know, it was me, my brother,

(01:31:10):
my mom, and my dad. And when I was thirteen,
my mom killed herself. Wow, he said. Two years after that,
my brother killed himself. He said, So it was me
and my dad for a bunch of years, and then
my second year of college, my dad killed himself. And
he said, to be honest, we I got to the

(01:31:31):
point where I could not hurt anymore, so I dropped
out of school and start smoking crack. Wow. And I'm
sitting there going, holy hell, I would have started smoking
crack too. Yeah, for sure. Well you smoke crack, you
lose your job, you lose your apartment. You're on the street. Now.

(01:31:54):
The cool end of the story was Jason has since
got his nursing degree and he's been sober almost thirteen years.
Oh wow, but that's an interesting story. So you think,
you know I I and taking the time to learn
somebody's story. I'm like, holy hell, I was totally wrong
about everybody on the street. Yeah, and the and the

(01:32:19):
more people I met on the street. It wasn't always
the case. I mean sometimes it was mentalism, sure, but
almost every one of something really bad had happened to
them young, sexual, physical, emotional abuse, and they couldn't they
couldn't handle the pain of it, so they started numbing,
either with alcohol or drugs. And you're not employable right

(01:32:40):
when you're an addict. And so really the addictions, the symptoms,
it's the hurt that started the whole thing. But that's
you know, once you start learning that, you're like, oh, hell,
I was wrong about you. I was wrong about you.
So I think we have to be open to the
fact that we don't know every thing. This is being

(01:33:01):
consciously considerate.

Speaker 4 (01:33:02):
Yeah, like, hey, like, because you don't literally know, you do, you.

Speaker 2 (01:33:07):
Have no idea, right, and you don't want to be naive,
but I think you do have to give people at
least a chance to learn their story, mane.

Speaker 4 (01:33:19):
Or you're just making assumptions.

Speaker 2 (01:33:21):
Yeah, well, and I think you know. I remember being
a kid in Hateville where I grew up. Nobody had
much money. Well, I always had really good baseball. Yeah,
And I remember one time, and I won't even say
the name of the school because you'll know it, but
we went to play one of the private schools in Atlanta,
and when we got off the bus. They were making
fun of our uniforms because we had like old, crappy uniform.

Speaker 4 (01:33:45):
Oh like just like they weren't like new and nice now.

Speaker 2 (01:33:47):
They were kind of old and beat up and that sucks. Yeah,
but I remember them making fun of us, and I
remember being a you know, fourteen, fifteen year old kid,
thinking you don't know anything about me. You know nothing
about me. You're just well. Now, because i've been successful
at what I do, people think, oh, you're rich. Oh

(01:34:08):
is that annoying? You're this, this, this, and I'm like now,
same guy, different shirt, Yeah, same same guy was at fifteen,
different better shirt, be better shtter threads. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:34:24):
I think some people aren't like that, the good ones are.
I think the good ones don't change.

Speaker 1 (01:34:30):
I think some people change negatively sometimes.

Speaker 4 (01:34:35):
Throughout success or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:34:38):
I think it's just kind of a cop out viewpoint
to make assumptions.

Speaker 4 (01:34:42):
Like, oh, you're rich, And I was like, I don't know,
I don't know anything, right I would. I don't like
that about myself right.

Speaker 2 (01:34:52):
Well, but so this has been like ten years ago.
But I was doing an interview and a lady said
to me, Okay, you do stand up. You host TV shows,
you do, award shows, you write, books, you paint, Which
one are you? And I'm like, Okay, that's a weird question.
And I said, well, those are all things that I do,

(01:35:14):
and I love what I do. I don't want to
do anything else. I love what I do. But who
I am is I'm a husband, and I'm a father,
and I'm a brother, and I'm a son and I'm
an uncle. And I said, so through the course of
my life, hopefully that what I do change is many times,
because that's interesting. Yeah, but what I do and who

(01:35:36):
I am are not the same thing. And I think
sometimes the people that change with that success is they
lose that dear. They what they do becomes their identity
and it's not going to last forever. Right.

Speaker 4 (01:35:53):
That's a scary place to fall into because it's yeah,
if it goes because harder, it gets a lot harder.

Speaker 2 (01:35:59):
Yeah, Yeah, and it's yeah, somebody's told me this a
long time ago. They said, there's five stages to be
in in the entertainment business, which you and I are
both in. It's who's Jeff Foxworthy? Get me Jeff Foxworthy,
Get me somebody like Jeff Foxworthy. Whatever happened to Jeff Foxworthy,

(01:36:24):
who's Jeff Foxworthy.

Speaker 4 (01:36:27):
But if you think about it, that's that's that's it,
that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:34):
You get at least two or three of those. What
doesn't last long? You know, Katy Rogers said to me,
he said, if your career is good, it's like a
lava lamp. He goes. You heat up for a little bit,
and then you go away and cool down. Then you
come back up and heat up again. Yeah, because if
you stay in that bright light too long, it'll kill you. Yeah,
that's that's true. Now do you find creatively Like when

(01:36:56):
I look back at the busiest parts of my career,
I didn't really enjoy them because that was yeah, and
you're probably in that right now. You don't have time
to smell the roses.

Speaker 1 (01:37:08):
Right now, I think I've been able to get to
a point where I finally can a little bit good
like not, I think it gets better than what it
is now. But I had to consciously look in the
mirror and say, a couple of years ago, holy shit, man,
how did we get here?

Speaker 2 (01:37:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:37:26):
Like seriously, And I didn't even know.

Speaker 2 (01:37:30):
Pain has become a company? Right when? How? How? What? Also?
Where all my old friends now? Do you find creatively
sometimes yeah, where are my old friends? Yeah? And creatively
sometimes your tank just runs out.

Speaker 1 (01:37:47):
Absolutely, Yeah, that spark doesn't stay the same forever.

Speaker 4 (01:37:52):
But nothing does. It's like, even if you had a restaurant.

Speaker 1 (01:37:55):
Every single meal isn't going to be the exact five
point zero stars. There might be a four point seven,
four point six, you know, or maybe just a.

Speaker 2 (01:38:04):
Four is your is your floor?

Speaker 4 (01:38:06):
But yeah, I learned that the AFC drive through, right,
and that's a big hit or miss. But when it hits,
when it hits, it hits, that's what keeps you coming
back though, right exactly, So they're good for it eventually.

Speaker 2 (01:38:18):
Yeah, oh yeah. It's like it's like a butterfinger. You know,
you might get two or three steale ones at the
gas station, right, but when you get that fresh butter finger,
oh yeah, oh, or.

Speaker 4 (01:38:29):
A mentos really because those they I think they just
really don't pull those ever.

Speaker 2 (01:38:33):
I think now the stale ones.

Speaker 4 (01:38:35):
Yeah, I mean, I'll break your chip, your tooth.

Speaker 2 (01:38:37):
But when you get a good path freshy oh yeah.
Out the fact that England in your nether region.

Speaker 4 (01:38:42):
Oh yeah, it reminds you why you do this.

Speaker 2 (01:38:44):
Yeah, you do realize we're We're just two really weird
guys having a conversation right now. Yeah, I think so
this works.

Speaker 4 (01:38:58):
Oh me too, Oh yeah, I kind of always wanted
to do that, though I think I didn't have.

Speaker 2 (01:39:05):
The chops four years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:39:07):
But I do so much serious stuff that there's not
a lot of room for some of the other, you know,
darker humor elements to things, and just the actual human
experience of this stuff, because it may look like I'm
making it about myself or I'm not treating it with
the right amount of sensitivity. All things that are kind

(01:39:27):
of you know, creatively limitations, and also things that I
am obligated.

Speaker 2 (01:39:32):
To do to a degree, to do this respectfully.

Speaker 1 (01:39:35):
And so I think that just it's liberating for me
to build to have real life conversations with other creators
and peers and people I look up to, like yourself,
because it just humanizes everything and take some of them
mystique away from even who I am and what I'm doing,
because it's just not as crazy as you think it is.

Speaker 2 (01:39:58):
It's just real simple shit. The thought if I could
do this, pretty much anybody could do this, oh absolutely,
And that's what I think about what I do I'm like, yeah,
if you're willing to spend a lot of time driving
in your car and you know, be away from home

(01:40:18):
and sleeping hotel, you can do this. Because I'm nothing special.
I'm an idiot. I'm two decisions from drywall in US.
Not that there's anything drywalled a lot, but you see
behind the curtain and it's like, hey, we got lucky. Yeah.

(01:40:42):
B it's really cool because you're getting to do something creative. Yeah,
but it ain't special. Back to JFK.

Speaker 4 (01:40:53):
Do you think Lee Harvey Oswald is the shooter and
the soul shooter?

Speaker 2 (01:40:58):
No? And no, Okay, do you I think so? I
think he is really I Oh my god, now We've
got a whole other episode. Now.

Speaker 1 (01:41:08):
I'm just saying I think that mostly conspiracy theories are fun.
They are because it's like what if right, and it's crazy.
But I think it's a little bit human nature when
something really bad happens to want to have some bigger,
grander explanation for why it happened.

Speaker 4 (01:41:30):
It can't just be as simple as this guy.

Speaker 1 (01:41:34):
Had an amazing shot from far away and it killed
the president and it's just.

Speaker 2 (01:41:38):
Him can't be right.

Speaker 1 (01:41:41):
But what if it was like you brought up sometimes
where you know Ronald Reagan there was an assassination attempts
against him, Zero conspiracy theories.

Speaker 4 (01:41:51):
Why because he survived it. But if you'll talk about
some grassy null stuff, there's some audities there are there are.

Speaker 1 (01:42:01):
And you know, I think if there is a conspiracy theory,
which I don't know definitively anything, I think there's probably.

Speaker 6 (01:42:07):
Like somebody somebody goes all right, Payne, I'm going to
tell you the truth, but you got to you got
to keep this just between you and me. Don't be
going on you dang podcast and telling people everything.

Speaker 2 (01:42:17):
You can trust me? Yeah, yeah, the Grassy Knoll, the
head movement, like the guy back there who was I mean,
I'm a hunter. His head goes back. So let's say
that that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:42:36):
What does it mean because the biggest thing with conspiracies
is like what changes everything? Well, what does it mean
that we did like we did this to him our
own government?

Speaker 2 (01:42:45):
Not necessarily? Okay? Just so that is too, means that
we weren't told the truth? Okay. And then it's like okay,
well why would you hide that?

Speaker 1 (01:42:56):
Because why would you hide it if there was not
just two people.

Speaker 2 (01:43:00):
Okay, all right. Why would they hide UFO stuff?

Speaker 4 (01:43:05):
I think because the implications are huge.

Speaker 2 (01:43:09):
We're all going to run out right, which I.

Speaker 4 (01:43:14):
Hate that take too, which I think there's place some
people who you can't handle the truth. Yeah, it's a
little bit of that, I feel like. But also I
think the gen.

Speaker 2 (01:43:23):
Z doesn't give a shit about any of that.

Speaker 4 (01:43:25):
They're like, cool, we already thought that was true anyway. Yeah,
So I think if there's.

Speaker 1 (01:43:30):
Ever been a good time to tell us the truth
on UFOs and aliens, it's right now.

Speaker 2 (01:43:36):
Yeah. I mean, I think if.

Speaker 1 (01:43:38):
There's a cover up, it has to do with secrets
they didn't want to get out about other things the
government was doing that looked bad that were wrapped up
into JFK and maybe his assassination. But not that they're
covering for some other shooter per se. Okay, but if
you think otherwise, I mean, I could be convince.

Speaker 2 (01:44:01):
We may have to do a whole episode. And now
I got to go back and brush up you not,
this is the whole thing, right, it is a whole thing. Well,
the bullet, I've spent a lifetime hunting, never seen a bullet.
Bullets don't look like that when they hit something, especially
when they go through multiple body parts. The magic bullet,

(01:44:24):
it's there's there's no untouched right, It's like you carefully
took white gloves and pulled it out of the cartridge
casing there's not a den on it. Bullets look like
deform mushrooms when they hit things, especially.

Speaker 4 (01:44:39):
Going through wrist, but I think explodes.

Speaker 2 (01:44:41):
Yeah, but they don't look like that. So why is
that sitting on a stretcher in pristine shape. I don't know.
It's to tie the deed to the gun in the window,
and there's no doubt about it because I've got the

(01:45:02):
rifling on the bullet and it matches the gun in
the window, which was where Lee was. That somebody really
wants you to tie that bullet to that gun.

Speaker 4 (01:45:12):
It is inconvenient too that Oswald was killed in police
headquarters by a guy that walked right.

Speaker 2 (01:45:22):
Up to it. Yeah. Yeah. Oswald also wasn't taking credit
for it, as most people would be proud of what
they had pulled off. That's a good point. He's saying
from the beginning, I'm a patsy. I'm a patsy.

Speaker 1 (01:45:39):
We should pull the audience here and see if they
want around two with us at some point where we
dig in deep.

Speaker 4 (01:45:45):
I have to go back and study because I'll have
a counter argument.

Speaker 1 (01:45:50):
But also like, I think that there are things like
that that I like to go deeper into that I
probably wouldn't have an answer for.

Speaker 2 (01:45:57):
Well, I will tell you this, Like when I went
and listened to the MLK tapes, it's one of my
favorite podcasts ever. Awesome because I learned so much. Yeah, see,
you need to make that and you can cut this
out if it's not a good business plan. If that
was a docuseries, it would be a national hit. Oh yeah,

(01:46:22):
because you have you have generations that do not know
this story. You're right, And I who lived. I remember
my mom telling me at breakfast that Martin Luther King
was killed. I remember the day. Wow. So and I
didn't know all the stuff in this story. So I'm like,

(01:46:42):
why has Kennedy talked about so much but not this?
And I think MLKA is a more fascinating if you
want to talk about a cover up. And now do
you do you all right? Do you think James RL
Ray was the lone gunman in MLKA.

Speaker 1 (01:46:59):
I again, there's no smoking gun that points me to
the fact that he isn't.

Speaker 2 (01:47:07):
Oh really, I mean, you changed my mind.

Speaker 4 (01:47:12):
I think that it's one of those things.

Speaker 2 (01:47:14):
Where pain is we changed your pain.

Speaker 4 (01:47:18):
Presenting the oddities and the facts as.

Speaker 2 (01:47:21):
They are, and that that didn't.

Speaker 4 (01:47:25):
I think I went down that and then I eventually
found myself kind of going back a little bit and saying, hey,
is this one of those things again where it just
feels better for it to be bigger than it is.

Speaker 1 (01:47:38):
I could be wrong on that too, Maybe I'm going
too far back the other direction, but you know, if
it was so easy to figure out, then we would
just we wouldn't be talking about it at all, right,
it wouldn't even be a debate. So you gotta remember too,
like the other side where it's like, okay, well it's not.
It wasn't convincing the other way either, necessarily it was so.

Speaker 2 (01:48:00):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:48:01):
I mean, I think that all the research he did
too was compelling to me open my eyes on how
I looked at the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (01:48:08):
But it did me as well.

Speaker 1 (01:48:10):
Yeah, it's the kind of but I didn't I can
see how and why and all that stuff, but I
had never felt fully convinced that it was definitively, you know,
more than that than what we do.

Speaker 2 (01:48:22):
And then that kind of said, so, so now we
have JFK and now we have MLK, and basically what
you're saying is we're never going to know the truth.
And I hate that. But so it goes back. It
had been to my premise of why we why we
are attracted to these things, because we are so stinking

(01:48:44):
hungry to know the truth about something. We don't trust
our government, we don't trust our media. We don't And
it's like, just tell me the truth. I can deal
with it, right, Just tell me that. I don't want
to be was Hoover that corrupted? I can do it. Yeah,
just confirm it. Yeah, Yeah, I think we I think
we were starving for the truth. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:49:04):
I always tell my my my mom and dad, just
to you know, from being kind of in media, which
I mean not necessarily the news media, but you know,
investigative reporting is kind of close to that just kind
of changed my perspective on how to look at the
news and whether to trust it blindly like that at

(01:49:24):
all obviously, And so I always tell my parents like, hey,
like take that with a grain of salt, you know, Well,
they went to Bernie Man, which is wild for the
first time ever.

Speaker 4 (01:49:33):
Mom and dad, My mom and dad. It's it's weird
even saying this right now. We went to the Burning Man
and I'm like, Okay, what world.

Speaker 2 (01:49:42):
Am I living in?

Speaker 1 (01:49:44):
But this year it got super rainy and super muddy,
and my mom calls and leaves me a voicemail and says, hey,
just want to let you know we're here safe, or
we made it on the news, saying though.

Speaker 2 (01:49:57):
It was like a goat rope, right, I mean, she
was like.

Speaker 4 (01:50:00):
It wasn't as bad as I'm making it look. And
I was like, I but that's what we're.

Speaker 1 (01:50:04):
Talking about, Yeah, because they're really making it look like
that on TikTok even.

Speaker 4 (01:50:08):
Yeah, and my parents were having more fun.

Speaker 2 (01:50:10):
Yeah, like it was for extra days, like a one
hundred thousand people trapped in the desert.

Speaker 4 (01:50:15):
At a party. Yeah, Yeah, they wanted to be.

Speaker 2 (01:50:18):
I'm going to have to do a bit about your
parents going.

Speaker 4 (01:50:20):
To birk Please do, please do, because it's it is
a bit.

Speaker 2 (01:50:23):
It writes itself. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:50:27):
Also, I would never want to go there with them.
I would go, but I don't want to see my mom.
I don't want to see when I see.

Speaker 2 (01:50:34):
Whatever else I see there, No, you don't.

Speaker 4 (01:50:36):
I also don't want to see any of that. As
a matter of fact. Yeah, hurts your head a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:50:44):
Well, you know, but at the end of the day,
it's like it for a comic. What you're trying to
do is in one of the I've been so blessed
that I've gotten to see the country because as a
little kid, I never went anywhere on vacation. We went
to South Carolina and stayed in my grandmother's trailer on
that farm for two weeks. That was our I've never

(01:51:07):
been anywhere through comedy, had been to all fifty states
and just about all over the world. But what you
realize is the scenery changes and the accents changed, but
people are the same. They are. You know, we're even
so politically divided in this country. But I think you
could take somebody at either end of the political spectrum

(01:51:27):
and sit them down one on one and say what
do you want out of life? And it's hey, I
want to be able to afford a home. I want
to be able to go to the doctor, want to
be able to take care of my children, want to
be able to buy I bet eighty five percent of
what we want. It's the same. Yeah, at both ends
of the political spectrum. Now, we don't choose to celebrate

(01:51:48):
the eighty five percent that we share the same. We
want to yell at each other about the fifteen percent
where we're different. But for a comic, that's all I've got.
If I go on stage in Oregon, my accents different.
I grew up in a different looking place. But I'm
looking for what are you and I have in common?
And what those things are is our thoughts, what we say,

(01:52:11):
our family. I'm looking for that connection. I think that's
what podcasts are. It's that connection where it is human beings.
We're hungry for that. Yeah, we want to be part
of a tribe. We want to be told the truth.

Speaker 4 (01:52:29):
So I think you do a service to people and
what you do, what do you mean.

Speaker 2 (01:52:33):
You're digging for the truth, right, don't always get there,
but you're digging for it, which is all people want.

Speaker 1 (01:52:43):
There was a live show for Up in Advantage that
we did in Atlanta years ago. I think this is
probably twenty seventeen. It was my first live show and
I learned after the show that, oh my god, you
missed it. Jeff Foxworthy was here sitting near my grandma,
and I was like, what, so you stole the show.

Speaker 2 (01:53:06):
No, I didn't you. But I'm sitting in the back
just listening and enjoying. I like learning. Well, this has
been a blast, man. I appreciate you. I don't even
I'm not sure what we talked about. I just enjoyed
the talk.

Speaker 4 (01:53:18):
It's same, yeah, same. I think we did something either way,
it's going on YouTube.

Speaker 2 (01:53:24):
Like my wedding night. I'm not sure what it did,
but we did something.

Speaker 4 (01:53:27):
We got married, though, I don't know if it was
right or wrong, but we did something. I felt good though.
I appreciate you coming out here too.

Speaker 2 (01:53:35):
Well. No, I just admire what you do, and I
admire the way you got into it is you know
it to me, people that are creative, most of them
are creative in more than one area of their life.
But we're kind of weirdos a little bit, and so

(01:53:55):
I kind of think creatives kind of understand each other
a little bit, kind of like comics. It's funny, like
when you start out, we're all mean to each other
because everybody's trying to get into ya. But once you've
done it a while, we're all nice to each other
because it's like, you know right exactly, you know the

(01:54:16):
price that goes with this.

Speaker 1 (01:54:18):
Now we feel like we can confide in each other
a little bit, co miserate on a couple of those
things that no one else.

Speaker 2 (01:54:23):
I'd like to see A I love the state, so
I like to see somebody from my home state be successful.
And it's an unusual career path to just hold your
nose and jump, which is what you did, and try
something totally new and it worked. And now you look

(01:54:44):
back and go, oh my gosh, like you said, what
if I hadn't done this. Yeah, that's the scariest thought
to me, What if I hadn't done that. It's not
what I would change, is what if I didn't do that? Yeah? Yeahnap.
So for everybody listening, yeah, you need that moment in
your life, hold your nose and jump.

Speaker 4 (01:55:00):
But if you really suck at singing, if you suck.

Speaker 2 (01:55:03):
At it, don't do it. But if it's your gift,
if you're good at it, yeah, go for it. I mean,
the worst thing that can happen is you fail. Yeah.
And I always told my kids, I said, I want
you to fail a lot, because if you're failing. That
means you're testing the boundaries of what you're capable of. Absolutely,

(01:55:25):
so you're right. Give me. If this didn't work, I
was like, Okay, well I was on to the next thing.
Go go do the next thing. Yep, yep, awesome. I
appreciate it. Man, Thanks Man Blast. Yeah, that's awesome. Cowboy
Cookies next time.

Speaker 3 (01:55:39):
Talking to Death is a production of Tenderfoot TV and
iHeart podcast created and hosted by Pain Lindsay. For Tenorfoot TV,
executive producers are Pain Lindsay and Donald Albright. Co executive
producer is Mike Rooney. For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers are
Matt Frederick and Alex Williams. With original music by Me

(01:56:00):
and Vanity Set. Additional production by Mike Rooney, Dylan Harrington,
Sean Nerney, Dayton Cole, and Gustav Wilde for Cohedo. Production
support by Tracy Kaplan, Mara Davis, and Trevor Young. Mixing
and mastering by Cooper Skinner and Dayton Cole. Our cover
art was created by Rob Sheridan. Check out our website

(01:56:21):
Talking to Death podcast dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:56:28):
Thanks for listening to this episode of Talking to Death.

Speaker 1 (01:56:31):
This series is released weekly absolutely free, but if you
want ad free listening and exclusive bonuses, you can subscribe
to tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts or go to tenderfootplus
dot com

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Jeff Foxworthy | Dark Comedy, True Crime and Rednecks (RE-RELEASE)

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