December 26, 2023 • 56 mins
What’s the key to going viral—not just once but again and again? Is there a secret formula to transforming internet fame into a multimedia empire? I tackle these questions and more in a raw, eye-opening chat with YouTube sensation Cody Ko on the latest episode of That Moment.
Even if you don’t know Cody from his comedy sketches and commentary videos (2 billion+ views!), you may have heard his massively popular Tiny Meat Gang podcast. Turns out this digital funnyman is quite the serial achiever, constantly challenging himself to excel across music, touring, and yes, triathlons too.
But grinding so hard through your twenties takes a toll. As Cody shares honestly, once the pandemic hit, he struggled to stay focused working alone at home. Like many entrepreneurs hustling 24/7 pre-COVID, he admits falling into some unhealthy coping mechanisms originally meant to relieve stress.
I won’t spoil the details, but let’s just say Cody’s bubbly optimism went off the rails for some time in 2020. Having been in similar ruts myself, I could relate all too well to the isolation and self-confidence crisis. Luckily for both of us, a major wake up call was just around the corner.
From staring failure in the eyes to bouncing back tougher than ever, Cody recalls the exact “aha moment” that got him back on track mentally and physically. It came via an unlikely invite from family to push his ultra-athlete skills to the max.
What challenge did Cody take on that renewed his belief in bettering himself daily? How did this ordeal make him an even funnier, more humble comedian too? Check out our raw life chat to find out! Just don’t be surprised if you dash off to sign up for a marathon afterwards. Cody’s drive is downright infectious.
Host: Daymond John
Producers: Beau Dozier & Shanelle Collins; Ted Kingsbery, Chauncey Bell, & Taryn Loftus
For more info on how to take your life and business to the next level, check out DaymondJohn.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My default answer was, Oh, no, I can't do that.
Like I said that, I was like, Nah, that's you're
kidding me me And and then after the phone call,
I hung up and I was like what. I just
couldn't believe that. That was the thing that I My gut,
knee jerk reaction was You're not good enough to do that,
Like you're a joke sort of like that's a joke
(00:21):
that you would even be considered to do that. I
was like, I used to do these things. Why shouldn't
I be able to do it? Now?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Do it?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Now?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Do it?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Now?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Do it now? What if I told you there was
more to the story behind game changing events? Get ready
for my new podcast, That Moment with Damon John will
jump into the personal stories of some of the most
influential people on the planet, from business mobiles and celebrities
(00:47):
to athletes and artists. Here's a great spoiler alert for
you when it comes to this interview. It takes a
turn that I never expected, but I think is extremely powerful.
So when you think of the most successfully YouTubers, do
you think of entrepreneurs? Well maybe you do, because there's
a lot out there, and this one is the top.
If not. This guy is gonna definitely change that idea
(01:11):
for you. He's an award winning podcast and social media star.
Cody co has cracked the code to building a community
and the career through YouTube especially, and I am excited
to have him on and you're gonna learn some tricks
of the trade. So whether you are trying to convert
people on YouTube or in your retail store or online
(01:32):
in any way, you can learn from him. Because for
those of you who aren't familiar, here's why Cody should
be on your radar. For starters. He's playing around with
buying back in the days, and remember that thing. It
disappeared and very few people on that app realized that
they didn't have anybody's data. So when that app disappeared,
well all of their followers disappeared, but not his. The
(01:55):
same way that when covid happened and people had all
these people coming into their retail stories, they said, wait
a minute, my store is in trouble and I don't
even know where my customer is. They live down the block,
but I don't know how to get a hold of
them because I never got their contacts in any form.
And he is going to talk about how he was
able to move that over because he amassed fourteen million
(02:18):
supporters across social media after that, and he's also parlaying
those supporters into a career in music, live touring, entrepreneurial ventures,
and apparel. Cody was named the most Interesting YouTuber in
the world by Forbes and continues to demonstrate his business
acumen through investments in brand like Liquid Death. Alongside, he's
(02:43):
also done collaborations with Old Spice, McDonald's, for LG and
way more. He's also expanding his following through his podcast
Tiny Meat Gang, which he hosts with his comedy partner
Noel Miller. I love the show. The show is the
ten comedy podcasts and the two of them launched Tiny
(03:04):
Meat Gang Studios in twenty twenty one, which consists of
five shows of over two hundred million views, and people
listen to it all across the country and the world.
They love this network. I do too. This young man
is a shark already. You're gonna learn from him. Right now.
(03:24):
Let's get into it with Cody co Cody, thank you
for being here.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
How you doing good man? Thanks for having me. Nice
to meet you. Yours is one of my favorite episodes
of how I built this. I've of course watched Shark
Tank a fair amount, but that episode I listened to
that podcast pretty religiously and like that one. I remember.
I think I listened to that in twenty nineteen and
loved it every second of it.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
So well, thank you for that, man, And I am
a fan of yours from you know, your ability to
transition to be a business person. And I act actually
probably have to go back and listen to How I
built this to see what what is it about that
one that's so many people that I have a respect
(04:12):
for find value in it. It is. It is probably
the one I'm approached about the most by people who
are professors in universe with somebody the other night who
I'm on a board with on Overtime Sports said hey,
I use this as my opening to my class in NYU,
so I probably need to I don't know. Do you
(04:33):
feel the same way that I feel. I don't like
listening to my voice.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, no, I don't like doing that either, So.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I don't want to hear damn podcast on myself talking
about shit that I already know about myself.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
And I also I have a really bad voice, Like
I really don't like my voice, and I have to
hear it a lot because a the podcast be YouTube.
But see, I also make a lot of music too,
so I have to listen to myself try to like
sound cool. And that's just like you.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Don't in the world. That's the point. You don't have
a bad voice, but you think you do, and I
the same. I don't know this is appropriate to say.
The only time I've heard of anybody, or witness anybody
who loved their voices and I wasn't cool with them.
I happen to go to a party of a holiday
(05:19):
party at R. Kelly's house, and there were a lot
of people there and I was walking around and he
was playing his own album, not a new one.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
I guess that kind of makes sense, but he was.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Walking around singing and going, oh that one, Oh I
love that song. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I mean, I guess in hindsight, it does you be like, yeah,
I guess you would do that.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, people do sick things.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
All right, Well let's let's get off of that. But
what can we take away from that. I should have
probably got the hell out of that house at that moment. Yeah, probably,
all right, And so you know, I've already done the
intro and I'm there. There's so much unpack about this,
and so, you know, I kind of wrote down some
(06:12):
questions myself because I want to know that you know,
what was it and where was that moment that when
you realized you went viral all for the first time
on YouTube? Do you know where you were? Because of
course when you go viral, right, it's kind of like,
oh wow, those things picking up.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Oh yeah, I do. And it's actually kind of funny
that you that you mentioned King Bash and Amanda Sertni before,
because the first time I ever went viral on YouTube,
I still remember it so vividly because it was the
first time that I you know, YouTube is really hard
to crack, especially back ten years ago. Yeah, now there's
(06:54):
a lot of hacks and people have kind of figured out,
like mister Beasts is a good example, like he has
got the algorithm down to a science. You know, back then,
people were still learning like what makes what works? And
even even as a new creator on YouTube, you're not
only trying to figure out what people want to see,
but you're also trying to figure out your own style
and what's your own voice and how long should your
(07:15):
videos be and all that stuff. So I was experimenting
with tons of different styles of videos. I tried vlogs
didn't really work for me, and you know, like the
phrases the definition of insanity is doing the same thing
and expecting different results. I just figured out a certain point.
I got to switch things up, and I got to
(07:35):
figure out something that works for me and also something
that you know, people want to see. And I noticed
commentary was a popular genre on YouTube. It was gaining
popularity back then people just like you know, like I
don't know, like goofing on cringey content and you know,
giving their kind of opinion on things that they found
kind of weird. And so like I did a video
(07:57):
kind of making fun of those people's Instagram comedy videos,
and yeah, I kind of feel bad for it now,
but like that was the first time that that I
actually saw like serious traction on YouTube. I think that
video got like one hundred thousand views overnight or something,
and I've never even seen that type of traction before.
So I was like, oh my God, like something, I
(08:18):
have something here. So yeah, that was the first time
I ever felt traction on YouTube. And then from there,
I took that and kind of ran with the commentary
direction because I was like, I like writing, I like
performing this style of content because it is very comedic
and I can write jokes for myself, and then I
can also pick my sort of like subject Like I
(08:38):
did a video on like kind of like travel influencers,
like people that portray this like crazy life of them
living in Bali and on yachts and stuff like that.
So I wrote this whole essay kind of about that,
and that to this day is like one of my
you know, most quoted videos ever. So that don't really
(08:59):
really worked.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Let's go back to the what you kind of just
throw in the well you kind of feel bad about it? Now, Yeah,
when did you feel bad about it? When did you
start feeling bad about it? And why did you start
feeling bad about it?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I mean, I guess, I guess like as you kind
of grow up, you kind of it's hard to explain,
but it's like I think when you're younger, you're a
little at least for me, it was like I was
a little bit more naive, a little bit more vain,
you know, and as you grow older you realize it's
really more about life at least is more about like
(09:31):
family and love and who's in your life and trying
to bring positivity into the world. I used to kind
of make fun of people that said that because I
was again like sort of, you know, not I don't
think a nihilist is the right word.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
But.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
You know, I would like harp on negativity a little
bit and use it to my advantage. And I feel
like as you grow older, you kind of realize that's foolish.
You know, that kind of has a ceiling on it,
And it's also a little bit like you don't really
want to be putting that into the world because you'll
you'll receive it back sort of. So I think as
I've grown older, it's been more like I want to
skew more towards you know, stuff that's fun for everyone
(10:05):
to watch. I guess you know.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
You you found success in it, and as you as
you ended up finding more success in that that thought
process of growing older and being a little more self aware.
Why do you think that as you grow older people
understand there's a lot of people who will never get that. Yeah,
(10:28):
and they'll turn around and reflect on their life and
they'll say, I wonder why I'm not where I want
to be Yeah, right, I mean that's what I mean.
And you know, I got to tell you know, I
think one of those things of you being somebody so
popular and being able to admit that, I think it
shows a lot because I'll give you example. I was
the other day, I was walking, I was at Art Battle.
(10:50):
You know, it's a really really big event that happens
in Miami where artists from all around the world comes.
Is only fine artists. Only. Only other place that actually
is larger is in Basil, Germany, where it originated from.
And I was that a furniture. I didn't realize they
did furniture at the time, and you know, really design furniture.
(11:12):
Really small collection someplace I'm going it is the snootiest
people I've ever met in my life. Yeah, snootier than
the fine artists. I mean the fine artists actually generally
many of them are not snoothy. They they they have
this and if they're there, they have this expression. They
wanted to share it with people and they just want
to bring beauty to the world. So I'm walking by
(11:33):
a booth, I talked to somebody. I asked about a
question for a piece of furniture. The furniture is I
think five hundred thousand dollars. But the person at the
booth was writing, didn't even look at me, didn't even
give me the acknowledgement of looking at me when they
told me they were like five hundred thousand. Now you
would think that, you know, I mean normally, even if
(11:55):
you are a McDonald's, they thank you, you know, for
buying the fries. I didn't get a five hundred thousand
dollars a quote at a show that they would look
at you. And I got on and I went on
to my story and I said, I don't know who
these dummies are that hire these people who are representing
their brand and d D H. And I go on
for a little bit, and I said, well, maybe that's
the owner. And they're so good they don't need to
(12:17):
look at people. They're doing so well. And I said, well,
what if they're doing so damn well, why would they
be exhibiting at a show? And it's so such dummies,
you know, the person the owner of the gallery hits
me back and says, hey, I'm the dummy that hired
that person, and I'm appalled aut that, and I will
make this change, and I am I'm going to stop
(12:38):
these dumb acts of hiring these other people, whatever the
case is. And and I realized how harsh I was
to that person and that person's business. Yeah, and I
regret that. So, you know, I just want to I
want to bring it up that, you know, I think
that that will make me a better person. Now, trust me,
I've been I want to show for fifteen years that
I get to call people dummy.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, I want to, right, Yeah, I think, Yeah, I
think there's a right there are still the correct you know,
the right contexts to like sort of goof on things
and make fun of things or critique things. Yeah, I
definitely think that because I still do it. But it's
things now that I think and the way I guess,
like the the angle in which I do it, I
(13:22):
feel like is more lighthearted. Before it was very very critical,
you know. And so I do feel like I just
feel like the more you sorry to interrupt again, but
I mean I wanted to say, I think the more
I always make sure that I guess, I think, you know,
creating is a lot harder than critiquing. Yeah, And I
(13:42):
think in general that's true, And so I've always made
sure to try and create original works alongside my critiques, right,
so it keeps me honest. And the thing is the
more you the more you create, the less you want
to critique because the more you realize it of how
hard it is to create, like, you know, a genuine
piece of original content or media. So, you know, I
(14:06):
think as I've gotten older and as I've created more,
it just makes me want to, you know, pick on
other people's work less because it's like I don't know
their I don't know what their context is or why
they created this or you know, what their motivation was
at all, or what their audience is at all. You know,
sometimes I'm just like completely disconnected from their audience or
who they're they were targeting with that piece of media.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So now you know, you know, we we do know
that you start out on vine? How many how many
followers are? Did you have one vine at the time?
Speaker 1 (14:39):
I forget, but I think it was like three million
or four millions, definitely in the millions, and then it
went to zero and that and and for.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Those who don't know, when you have those that amount
of found three four million and it goes to zero.
If you weren't smart enough to be able to capture
their data so they know where you went. They're not
necessarily going to find you. Are they going to find
you on snapchat? TikTok? YouTube? And the vine? Content was
(15:13):
such a short period of content, will they be willing
to listen to a longer all view a longer piece
of content? When that thing went to zero? Do you
remember where you were? Because to get it up to
that amount of people, I would assume you had put
in a lot of work. Do you remember where you
were and what happened at that moment when you said
(15:35):
it's no longer there, it's zero, and I don't know
how to get back to these people?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, I mean I think that the signs were clear
for a while that it was kind of on the
up and out because the traffic was just way less.
Like you tell, videos were getting less likes, they were
getting less comments. It wasn't like people look back on
it now and they kind of think that it just
went like poof and it disappeared. But it's like it
(16:02):
was declining for a while before it went away. So
when it did go away, it was like, yeah, we
kind of all knew this was going to happen. At
some point. People so many more people were using Instagram
video than and it just seemed like that was kind
of the new meta, and so it kind of made sense.
But I mean when it did get like actually removed
from the app store and everything, it was kind of
(16:23):
like a wild like you know, like a knife to
the chest sort of like in the It was like
kind of like a finishing blow. It was more like,
oh wow.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Something, well, well, I I got to ask you. How
long was Vine around for?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
It was like like four or five years?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Right, how old are you? How old were you when
it went away?
Speaker 1 (16:43):
I think I was twenty four twenty five?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Okay, And when did you start really engaging in social media?
Was viying the first platform or what was the first platform? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
It was Vine, So it was like when I was
twenty one basically.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Okay, So think about it like this. I mean, you
know a lot of things that I think you're saying.
You're just you're so advancing your thought process and that's
where you are that you're not realizing this. So if
for the first time you've ever really engaged in social media,
it's the only platform. You know, you were born into
social media, you're a social media native. And if it
(17:22):
lasts for four or five years, there is no telltale
that it's gonna go away, because true, what it went
away prior to that maybe what I don't even know MySpace,
you know, I don't know, right, And we see a
lot of people, don't. You see a lot of people
that are working a job or something. They've been there
(17:43):
ten twenty years, and they think, miraculously, at forty or
fifty years old, the lotto is they're gonna hit the
lotto where something's gonna happen. But realize that whether the
job goes away or you go away, something's gonna go
away if it doesn't change. And this is a platform
that that's all. You know, you're doing really well on it,
(18:05):
and you kind of see the warning size. I see
a lot of people that never see the warning sign.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a good point for sure.
It definitely was a conscious decision for me at least
to try to turn it into something bigger via you know,
moving people off the platform to another platform, because I think,
like I was at that point, I was kind of
like there was multiple factors. One of them was I'm Canadian,
(18:35):
so I needed a visa to stay in the States
and I was a software engineer, so I had a
visa specifically for that, and in order to do social media,
I needed a completely different visa. And once I had that,
it had to be my plan a. Legally, I could
not be a software engineer. I couldn't make money by
other means. I if I had the visa to kind
of be a creator. So once I got that, I
(18:57):
had no choice. I kind of had to figure out,
you know, like how to supplement my income on social media.
And so that was kind of also motivation for me.
I was like, I need I know that this is
I'm going to get this visa. I purposely applied for this,
so if I get it, I need to be in
a place where I don't. I'm not just my entire
livelihood is depending on one platform. I need to figure
(19:19):
out how to do merch how to do podcasting, how
to do you know, like how to get people to
watch me in a longer form so that they kind
of feel more engaged. You know, this was all I
wasn't like explicitly thinking all these things, but I knew,
like I had to try to turn it into something bigger. Otherwise,
you know, I might just have to go back to
being a software engineer, which was not a bad career.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
But as a commonality that you and I have a
lot of people don't have. My buddy shamp will say,
you always got to build an umbrella when it's sonny outside,
and yeah, it is great saying. And I went from
man on top of the world with clothing. But I
started to really to pivot while I was is there
(20:00):
to being an investor to buy more clothing brands. Cause
I looked like like you just said, all right, I
looked at the data and said, well, hot bashing brand
last five to seven years. If the kid has four
years of Fooboo and his or her closet in high school,
but what do you think they want in college? Fuboo again.
Now they're gonna pivot to something different, and maybe I'll
get the kid who is in junior high now right,
(20:22):
But I still got a pivot. I started investing in
all the brands. I didn't do well with the investing
on the brands, but I kept starting. I kept doing that.
Right then all of a sudden, I started investing in books.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I failed.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
My first book was okay, my second book failed. Started
investing in trying to understand media and everything else. But
I started doing it at the height of when I
was at something. You started doing that yourself as well. Right,
you go from you know, software engineer, vine's working, but
you're investing in, you know, moving in, and then all
(20:56):
of a sudden you're in YouTube. You know, fine, great,
Wait a minute, I want my own network. Where does
that mentality come from? Because you you've had that mentality?
Is that a family thing? Is it? You just literally
can look at the writing on the wall and say,
(21:16):
it's not gonna stay the same? Where does that mentality
come from? You know? But that's what I'm That's what
I'm interested in, the moment that you start to realize
that things will never say the same and no matter
how good they're doing, I got to build that umbrella.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, that's a good question. I think I will say
multiple things. A. It definitely comes from family, for sure.
My parents are like very very accomplished people, not only
in their careers but also in athletics. Like they're both
insane and durance athletes. So I grew up watching them
do iron Man's and my dad broke the world record
(21:53):
for the longest distance traveled in twenty four hours by
human power. So he engineered a bike and drove it
around a track for twenty four hours straight and went
thousands of kilometers and was then in the Guinness Book
of World Records one year. Like as a child, I
used to get that book for Christmas every year, and
then one year he was in it. He was in it.
(22:14):
He was in it. We just all did an Ironman
(22:36):
together last year. My dad is sixty one now I
think my mom's fifty eight or fifty nine or something.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Iron Man.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah, yeah, and that's that was their like twentieth. It
was my first, and they were nice enough to like
do it with me, to like support me. But yeah,
it's so growing up, this was like the norm for me.
It was like you you know, this is like my
parents would go out and train for hours every day
and then it was just normal for me to like
kind of so I think that kind of instilled in
(23:04):
me a deep yearning for personal growth. And I think
that like lives in tandem very nicely with figuring out
you know, career growth or I guess, like where you
go when you know it's sunny out, but you want
to build an umbrella? Why do you want to do
that because you want to challenge yourself, I think, and
(23:24):
I always have that in the back of my mind,
like that is kind of what fulfills me, is like, Okay,
this is going really well, but I want to figure
out what makes music good? How do how do I
make great music? I want to feel some success in
that realm because it's just a fun learning experience. I
love learning, and so I really lean into that, and
I lean into the naivete that like a new comer
(23:48):
has to any sort of field and I think you
have to. Yeah, So that like honestly just like makes
me happy. That would be like the simplest answer is that,
like kind of challenging my self makes me happy. And
what that manifests as is career growth because it's like, sure,
we have a podcast that's doing really well, what's the
(24:09):
next thing. Well, it's trying to build a business out
of that. Like let's try and be let's take all
this money that we were just splitting at the end
of the year and you know, taking as a dividend
and put it back into the company and hire some
people and try to grow this as a living, breathing
thing that someday will outlive us. I think that sounds
really exciting that just having a podcast that's successful for
(24:30):
ten years, because that gets old.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Does it? What? Could it be painful? I'm curious. I'm
really curious about this. We're going down a whole another
rabbit hole. Could it be? When? When do you know
how to create the balance of it? Because with your
parents being such accomplished people, I don't even want to
ask what they do for business because that's probably you know,
they probably don't know how to cut it off, or
(24:53):
they do know how to cut off. Excuse me, I
actually tell you that truth. Where do you find the balance?
Because to be such hard chargers as Oh yeah, I'm
sixty something, I'm just iron man with you. What are
we talking about here? I mean, I you know, there's
either shit, I've done it fifteen twenty times, or where's
I want to go and build something and do the
(25:15):
Guinness Book World Record? And here's what I'm getting at
one of my sharks, Robert Fellow, Shark Canadian, he said,
he called up David Goggins. You know, are you familiar
with David? Yeah? Yeah, we all love David. I mean,
and he said, you know, I don't want to take
the steam out of it. But he said, called it David,
(25:37):
and said they went to dinner. And Robert is a
very very disciplined man. This man runs five ten miles.
I mean, you know, he'll tell the story of how
he looks for marathons sometimes and he just gets on
the jets and finds a random marathon somewhere and just
runs it. And halfway through he realized he made a
really bad decision because he didn't crane at all. Right,
(25:57):
called it David, And.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I would love to be that to just private jets
to a to a marathon that's happening tomorrow and be like, oh,
to do a marathon.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
He said, it's California one day and found Americtha, Oh
it's in Arizona. Wait, and then he flies to Arizona
really quick. You know, it's like on a Friday, it's
a marathon. He runs, he goes Saturday, hasn't ran from it,
you know, because he does five to ten miles in
the middle of Arizona, runs the marathon, no problem, mile five,
(26:25):
great mile ten, great mile sixteen. Everything locks up on
him in the middle of the desert in Arizona. Eighty
year old trained women running by him. He's hitchhiking. People
pull over in the car pick him up. The family's driving.
He's an old station wagon or something, and they're looking
(26:46):
in the back. He's like, they're dead. They're driving going,
aren't you. Robert from Shark Tank, you know, called it.
David Goggin goes to dinner with him and talks to David,
and of course David is the ultimate we all know,
Navy only person to be a Navy seal and a ranger.
(27:07):
And he say yes, and he's talking and David is
He's like, what do you do for fun? He was like,
me and three other guys and go to Vancouver. You know,
we jump out of planes with a shovel and we
fight fire, forest fires for four months. That's what you
do for fun. So I look him up, and you know,
I look up his Instagram. His wife is following him
(27:28):
in a ranger over. He looks like, you know, he's
running in the middle of the night, and he got
like a shovel in his hand if you go, and
he got a backpack and he's like, oh, David, and
the guys is celebrating, you know, end of the season.
And he's now at his twenty six mile running. He's
been running since, you know, eight o'clock at night. It's
like three in the morning, and that's what he does
(27:49):
for fun. And David says to Robert, if you don't
have pain, you don't have joy. Robert's like, oh, you
know dinner, I have this and that. What do you want, David?
One piece of letterce, have a chicken breast no skin. Yeah,
oh I don't have a little tequila and something. What
do you want, David? Have a glass of warm water only? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
It's like, where is the joy? You gotta have a
joy at some point.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
It can't be all pain. Robers like, check please, And
I'm scared. How do you cut it off? Because I'm
the same, you know, and a lot of times that
you find very successful people whatever you believe successes, they
go very hard on what they have and the reason
why you look at so many successful people. We can't
cut it off. How do you cut it off? Because
you're younger than me, you are filled with testosterone. The
(28:39):
life is, you know, an oyster. Your parents have accomplished
so much. Do you are you able to cut off
the drive or does it drive you crazy?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yeah? Okay, I think I have an answer for this,
I would say the first answer would be my wife.
I think she's very good at kind of grounding. She's
kind of like my you know, I look at her
and she she's taught me like how to actually relax
and enjoy things and think about love and not only
think about progress and what's next and whatever. It's like
(29:13):
she taught me how to live in the moment, you know,
and take take days where you're just enjoying.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Were you were you before before she taught to you that?
Were you kind of what I'm saying just really concentrating
on which is fine right at that age when you
were earlier on your life, were you only concentrating on
the success? Is saying I can't use this time as
idle time. I need to I need to do this. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I've always been like that where it's like any waking hour,
but the thing is like I'm either working towards progress
or I'm partying, you know. Like that was always kind
of an issue for me. Is like my only outlet
was like I work hard and then I played just
as hard. So I went through a period where I
was like really struggling with that too, because I can't
(29:59):
shut it off in my brain. So it's like I'm
either like whatever i'm doing, i'm doing very hard. So
if if it's not working, it's relaxing as hard as
I can, which is not relaxing. You know, that's not
a RESTful thing.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
On the moment that she put it to, well, when
when did you realize and I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna
go back to my moment with my wife in a
very similar aspect of the moment. But when when was
that moment that she that you realize, Wow, she yes,
this this works.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I can't really put my finger on one moment, but
I just know, like the way that her and her
family hang out, you know, they just sit and they
just enjoy each other's companies for for hours on end,
you know, stuff like that, like being a part of that.
Not that my parents don't do that, but it's just
it's in a different way, you know, seeing the way
that other people, other families, I guess a family that
(30:49):
I'm a part of now, how they express love and
how they because my family and I like the way
we express love is we go out and we do
we do things together, like we'll go on a bike,
like I said, I grew up doing bike trips. Every
vacation is the is. It's what people make fun of online.
It's a workout vacation, you know what I mean, Like
we wake up and we run ten miles so that
we can have a great meal afterwards or whatever. And
(31:11):
so like being a part of a family that expresses
love and affection and you know, critical time in a
different manner Like that kind of woke me up to
sort that style of relaxation. And then the other I
will say is is kind of leaning into the seasonality
(31:32):
of life. I think. I know it's a little poetic,
but like growing up in Canada, like seasons were a
big thing, and when you move to La it's like
seasons aren't really a thing, not as obvious anymore. So
it's kind of non But what's good about seasons and
weather is it it divvys up the year and for
very noticeably different chunks. I think if you treat kind
(31:55):
of work like that or personal endeavors like that, it's
a little bit help at least for me in my mind,
so that I'm not NonStop, go go go. It's more
like this is my project right now, I'm training for
an iron Man, and I'm gonna do an iron Man.
It's gonna take me eight months. But when I'm done,
I'm going to take a month or two off and
then I'm going to get right back to it after that.
(32:15):
So leaning into that too, it's kind of helps me
compartmentalize things in my mind, which helps me deal with
anxieties and stuff when all I want to do is go, go,
go all the time, you know, you were saying about
your Sorry I interrupted, you were saying about your wife.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
No, no, you didn't interrupt me. I was going to
go into another way of that because you know, there's
a lot of people listening, and they're going to hopefully
have respect for you and I because of our ability
to keep going hard. But and they may think, or
they may not realize that it's very, very common to
(32:53):
be business people, people who go hard in any aspect
of life. And that's why you know, business men and women.
If you ever hear the Billy Joel's song the Piano
Man and then the Piano Man, he says something like that,
and the businessman get stoned, right, Because when if you
(33:16):
travel the world like we have, you'll see at the
end of the night the businessmen and women are lined
up at the bar because there's a release, because you
can't cut it off. And if you don't find that
other release, whether it be push ups, you know, running
that that night, calling your little girl or your wife
(33:38):
or your little boy or your mother and just down,
you know, getting rid of all all this shit that's
gonna no matter what, still be there. You don't get
the release, and they use this to escape. And it
was that moment as well. The same thing with my wife.
(33:58):
I had always had. You know, I come from, you know,
a very hard place, and it was just my mother
and I and you know, when you come from the hood,
you don't necessarily have When you have disagreements with people,
you don't know where it's going to go right, and
so you have to have this hard shield. And you
(34:20):
I don't know if I got to beef with you,
I don't know how it's going to figure out. And
I used to hold whenever we had not anybody else
I had this kind of disagreement or challenge, I held
it in for a long period of time and I
harbored that beef. I may not speak them for two
three days. I want to calm down. D D d dah.
And it was it was in my mid thirties that
my wife I realized it no matter if we had
(34:43):
a disagreement or not, it wasn't that serious. And I
could let my guards down a couple of hours later
because she was like, honey, it's okay, and she wasn't
gonna get back at me. So it's kind of like,
how you have this woman that came in your life
to show you that there are seasons or there is
time to enjoy the moment. And it was that moment
that one time I after probably about really two three
(35:05):
years of having this beef where oh you know, wherever
I had an issue with her that I was like,
I ain't talking about that and I held this damn
problem for two three days and she was like, it
doesn't have to be two three days. I forgive you,
or even if I was wrong, we're good. And a
lot of people don't realize that. So I love the seasonality.
I think to think about it like a seasonality, you know,
(35:28):
and find those moments.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Now let's get into it. Let's get into okay. Now,
all of a sudden, you have a successful podcast and
you're saying yourself, let's invest more money back into the podcast.
Why do you believe that? Oh? Why did you believe
in that moment? Because now all of a sudden, you know,
you do have I think six under your you know,
your network. Why should people believe in your ability to
(35:57):
help them and to harness and be an umbrella or
a help with that podcast? Why why would people believe
in that? And how were you able to convince other
people to believe in you.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
The one thing that we did, you know, really well
with our with our show is from the from the
get go was the visual aspect of the podcast. We
always took very very seriously, so we always had like
we always tried to make it sort of a YouTube
forward podcast. And then and then the other thing was
was we self produced everything for you know, ever since
(36:33):
the very beginning. It was always us doing all the
like buying the gear, doing the recording, doing that, all
the post you know, production, editing, posting, channel management, everything
was us. And when we launched the show, we did
it on Patreon, so we were basically making money right away,
but we were doing everything ourselves, so we learned what it
(36:54):
took to make a great show from the ground up.
So we had all the knowledge on how to produce
a great podcast. We had five years of experience or whatever,
it's like three or four years by the time we
started this business experience on like you know, building an audience,
creating a great show. And then so we thought we
(37:14):
were in a good place to kind of take that
knowledge and and apply it to other creators who we
thought had you know, a similar talent or different talents
or better talents. And then we also, you know, I
guess like reputation was also a part of it too,
just knowing, you know, audience wise, that people trusted that
we had a show that they enjoyed. So you know,
(37:35):
our our I guess co sign of another show would
carry a certain weight.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Well did it help you all the time? Because you know,
there are a lot of people going to say, yeah,
you do great doing what you do. How how can
you represent me? You know a lot of people many
people often would say, well you're good over there. How
would you be you know, great for me behind the scenes?
And as you pitched yourself to other people, did you
go in and say, well, you know, you know, look
(38:03):
at who I am, look at what I have? A
commage of course I could do that, but you or
did you have to humble yourself and say, no, let
me show you the method, what we do, how hard
we work at it, and how hard will work for you.
Because some people think their reputation is only going to
get them in the door, but some people believe their
reputation is all they need to to have to to
(38:23):
get other successful people to believe in them.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah, I mean, that's a good question. I think I
think it was definitely, you know, somewhat of a risk
for us and for the talent that we were signing
right off the get go. It was more and this
was more like relationships that we had developed with these people.
You know, we were friends with them outside of outside
of production and media. So it was like, listen, we're
(38:47):
doing this. We've done a great job of this. We've
built a fantastic team. Look at how high quality our
show is. We want nothing but to bring this to you.
And yes, you're going to have to trust us a
little bit. But you know, I think like selling ourselves
was something that we Yeah, we also had to learn,
I would say, and that you know that's never ended.
(39:11):
I guess like we're still learning on the best way
to deal with talent and produce shows that leave them
in the audience as happy as possible. And we want
to keep doing those things until they're you know, until
like talent are just absolutely thrilled with with the fact
that they're working with us, and and we hope that
we're there now. But we want to just continue that,
(39:32):
you know, and just continue learning from our mistakes and
creating a great company.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I want to so you that that's that's great because
a lot of people feel like, you know, there's one
moment when you've arrived, and I don't believe there's any
moment when you've arrived because there's nothing to strive for.
But you would name by Forbes as the most interesting
YouTuber in the world. What year was that?
Speaker 1 (40:00):
I think that was like three four years ago.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
When that happened. Did you feel like you arrived or
was there because you could either had imposter syndrome, You
could have had either arrived or you could have had
This is a really great step. I really appreciate it.
I'm in the moment. Let's keep going. Which any of
(40:45):
those three or maybe another one?
Speaker 1 (40:47):
That's a good question. I will say, like I kind
of at that point. I remember like when that went live,
I kind of remember thinking, it is nice that I,
I don't know, it's nice to read a little bit
of like formal recognition on what I've been working on. Right,
Like that did feel kind of nice because up until
that point I was I did feel like I was
(41:08):
working on a million things and you know, trying to
cast the widest net as possible, and you know, like
we were working on music at that point. I think
at that point, our music was just starting to take off.
So we're starting to get tens of millions of streams
as well as you know, launching podcasts and trying to
keep up with YouTube, and it just all felt very
(41:28):
And then we were touring do we were like doing
live shows, and so it felt like very like sporadic
and just like I don't know what to focus on.
Are these the right things? And then that one article
came out and kind of was like he's doing all
these things, and I was like, oh man, it is
kind of it does feel good to hear someone else
say that. But then I will say I kind of
fell into the trap of you know, reaching a feeling
(41:53):
like I had arrived, so I can kind of stop
I fell into that trap hard. When COVID hit, I
was like, this is a great excuse to kind of,
you know, maybe maybe I just need to chill. Maybe
that's why I've been feeling so anxious and blah blah blah,
is because I just need to relax. I did it.
I made some money, I got some recognition. It's time
to just completely stop caring and being passionate.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Well, you didn't mean stop what you were doing. You
didn't mean stop tiny meat gangs or stop a.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
No no, no, yeah, I mean it kind of everything was
on the fritz at that point, Like we couldn't tour.
We went from like touring the world all of a
sudden to just being locked in our apartments where those
things weren't even like physically possible, and so we stopped
kind of working on music. We still did the podcast
every week, but I just kind of stopped feeling that
(42:47):
desire to like figure out what's next. And I kind
of fell into like drinking too much and you know,
kind of resorting to to bad habits because I thought
like maybe that's what I needed at that point or whatever,
And so I stopped working out. So like the endurance athletics,
(43:07):
part of my life stopped being a thing and I
fell into this like horrible just I mean, I would
say rutt is kind of like a gentle term for it.
But it really just felt like I wasn't optimistic anymore,
which was a horrible feeling. It's considering like optimism, I
think is one of my strongest qualities, and I just
didn't have it anymore. I was like, I just like
(43:29):
didn't know what to do because I just felt like
so uncertain about the future, which was weird.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
And but what triggered that? What triggered that? Because I mean,
now all of a sudden you talk about like your
Thorfinny war, Remember when of these showed up and he
had a punch a big old belly and shit and
he was chilling. What what what triggered? Now, don't get
me wrong, this is a pandemic, and we all thought
(43:54):
we were going to be off for a month, right,
And all of a sudden I went through it too, right,
you know, all of a sudden. You know, I don't
I don't necessarily know if I had a problem, but
I can turn around and say I had a habit
in knowing myself as a hard charger. The habit that
I said, ah, i'll stop drinking, I'll stop doing this.
That habit didn't stop. And I'm sure you know your
parents probably came home and said what the hell or
(44:16):
saw you or whatever, like, what the hell's wrong with you? Man?
What triggered that though? Because, yeah, there's a moment of cool.
But was it? Was it just again maybe you saying
you're a hard charger. You said, man, I'm gonna drink.
I'm gonna drink. I'm gonna relax. I'm gonna relax. Oh,
we got the Forbes thing here. When this thing is over,
I'll get back to it. Wait a minute, it's not
(44:37):
over yet. Wait a minute's not over. I'll have another drink.
Wait a minutes, not over it, I'll have another drink.
What what triggered that?
Speaker 1 (44:43):
I think you nailed it. I think it was the
combination of all those things. It was. It was everything
was going so well until the pandemic hit that I
used that kind kind of as an excuse to, like,
instead of find a productive way for me to keep
feeling like I'm getting better and progressing. Instead, I found
(45:04):
something destructive where you know, it was something to keep
me occupied, but it wasn't. I wasn't being occupied or
stimulated in the right way. And all I was doing
was leading me down a darker and darker path and
so like, And it was a combination of everything. It
was like, Oh, I did it already, what else? What
else is there left to do? You know? I got
(45:25):
the money, I like, bought a house in Malibu. I
was like, ah, I'm good, I did it. But it's like,
that's that's such like a toxic mindset, you know. And
I think it's which sounds a little bit hypocritical, hypocritical
of me to say that, because I'm talking about you know,
before I was talking about learning when to relax and
stuff like that. But I think everything goes hand in hand.
It's like the seasonality of life is there for a reason.
(45:48):
It's because you have to pick back up and you
have to start again, like the hard work season is
still gonna come, and you can't just keep going down
this darker and darker path of relaxing. And I did
it because that's just going to leads you to a
life of misery. That took me a while to realize
because I wasn't even sure why I was sad. I
was like, I I did it, I made it. I
(46:08):
get to just relax all day and cave to my vices.
Why am I sad? These things make me happy? But
then I took finally it was like started. I signed
up for an ultra marathon and I started training for
it again. I started to like find my purpose again.
And with that came that optimism and the happiness that
I was missing before. And that is what woke me
(46:29):
up to like, oh yeah, okay, this makes a lot
of sense. You can't just you can't just these things
feel good because they feel good momentarily. But the more
they feel good, the more they feel shitty. And I
think the opposite is true for productive things. The more
it hurts, the more it feels good in the end.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
You know, so you never arrived, and I think that
you are saying it is hypocritical, but I think that
what you're saying is exactly what so many people don't say,
or people that other people look up to with the
vulnerability of it. And then other people turn around and go,
wait a minute, but you know you're supposed to go
hard or wait a minute, I'm a loser when it's
(47:08):
not hypocritical. The only thing I regret about what you're
saying is that you didn't call meat during those times
because I was going through the same shit and we
could have both been drunk. But that's what happened to me,
you know, I was, you know, just like all of us, right,
you know, because if you think about it, and there
are people listening right now and I know we're going
to bring this to an end and we never know
(47:28):
where it's going to go, is that you know, I
actually have one person in my life right now who's
in the hospit who's in hospice because they weren't able
to turn out of that curve. And when you are
somebody who is in the pandemic, or on vacation, or
going through a transition in your life, or celebrating or
(47:48):
traveling too much and at a bar, the device of
alcohol and liquor is not frowned upon the same way
that other things in life may be frowned upon. And actually,
when you're going through it, if you're not drinking, people go,
what is wrong with you? How dare you? You know?
And you know, what are you kidding me? Let's have
(48:09):
a drink, right, And it is promoted everywhere. Right, every
single time that you see a billboard, a commercial, anything else,
everybody looks super sexy drinking. You don't see pop belly
people going oh my god, I'm about to die. Right,
And every time you know, you go to a restaurant,
you even get it, you get it for Christmas and holidays. Right,
And it's something that is promoted unless you have true
(48:32):
the ability to reflect and say I can enjoy, but
I or maybe I should stop and enjoy different things. Don't.
You're not hypocritical. We are human beings. We go up,
we go down, night and day. Like you said, right, summer, fall, spring, right, winter.
I think it is critical. What did you do? Where
(48:53):
was the moment when you said, I'm going too far
or it's been too long and I am going to
stop and do this Because some people, like my friend
in the hospice, never get out of that turn, and
some people feel like it's bad and they were weak.
(49:15):
But it's all around us. This vice is all around us.
So imagine if this world or this country did not
have alcohol, there would be imagine sports games, how much
money they would not make, hotels, bars, lounges. It's all
around us. I didn't think the interview would go to
the part of I don't drink anymore. I don't. I
(49:37):
lost forty pounds not drinking, and I said to myself,
I just took inventory and said, I don't know. I'm
trying to escape with it. It's nice, you know, I'm cool, right,
I didn't never have a problem with it, like I said,
But you know what, every time I drink, I got
empty calories. I wake up in the morning, I want
a greasy cheeseburger. My wife does not drink. I'm probably
(49:58):
you know, the smell alcohol makes her, uh, you know, nauseous.
I may have said one or two stupid things the
night before to somebody, or may have been too nice
to somebody who I don't want to be around, and
the alcohol was numbing me. I stopped. I tried the
(50:18):
every other drink of water, drink on just tuesdays dry January.
It doesn't work. I like the taste of this stuff.
When did you, uh, what was the moment that you said, nah,
no more?
Speaker 1 (50:32):
I mean I still I still do it, no problem?
Speaker 2 (50:35):
When did yeah?
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Like, I like move But but here's the thing, like
it's something that I still definitely struggle with a little bit.
And I say struggle in the sense where you know,
like I'm not even entirely sure again, like it's a problem,
but like I do think about it a lot. And
if you're thinking about something a lot, something's something's a
little weird there. It's if alcohol. I think a healthy
(50:57):
relationship with alcohol is you don't think about it, you
know what I mean. I think about that a lot.
It's like it's like if you're thinking constantly like should
I have a drink? I don't, but I haven't think
tomorrow all this stuff. It's like you probably it's probably
healthier to just give it up entirely. And when I
do that, I like every year I'll go sober for
like fifty to one hundred days at a time, and
it's like I always feel way better. So it is
(51:17):
something I still I'm like, I think one day, like
this will be a part of my life that I
just don't look back on. In terms of finding a
balance or whatever. It's like, I don't. I think the
balance is none. Eventually, I want to do that. So
it's something I still am striving to do, you know,
But it's harder said than they're easier said than done.
But I think I'm thirty three now, so yeah, I
(51:42):
think like the moment at least in that sort of
darker period where I realized I had to make a change, though,
was my parents called me. They told me they were
doing this ultra marathon and my sister was doing it,
my brother in law was doing it. And my default
answer was, Oh, no, I can't do that. Like I
(52:04):
said that, I was like, nah, that's you're kidding me me,
and and then I after the phone call, I hung
up and I was like what. I just couldn't believe that.
That was the thing that I My gut knee jerk
reaction was You're not good enough to do that, Like
you're a joke, sort of like that's a joke that
you would even be considered to do that. I was like,
I used to do these things. Why shouldn't I be
(52:25):
able to do it now? And I just realized right
then at the table, I was like, I've totally lost
the confidence in myself. It was very, very like sobering,
bizarre moment for me. So I called them back and
I said, I'm gonna do it. Yes, I'm gonna do it.
This is something that I can do and I'm gonna
do it. I'm gonna train and do it. And then
after that it was like I showed up for my
(52:46):
I started just showing up for myself more and more,
which I think is something that if you're struggling with
alcohol or any sort of vice, that's something that you
lose because you cave over and over again to this vice.
So you want to stop. You tell yourself I should
be stopping. Why can't I do this? And then you
cave over and over again, so you just spiral down
(53:09):
that horrible you know well, where it's like you're not
good enough to stop the addictions or the whatever device
is bigger than you, so that completely evaporates your self confidence.
Then you start it starts to bleed into other things
of your life where you're like, I can't rely on myself,
so my word is no good even to myself, which
(53:31):
is so toxic, I think. And as soon as I
started showing up for myself again, that bled into other
parts of my life where I was more confident to
go out and try and build a business, or or
start a new YouTube channel, or try a new style
of comedy, because it's like I know I will do
the work to make sure that this happens. Because I
(53:52):
was able to do the work and make sure that
I showed up for this ultra marathon. It doesn't have
to be an ultra marathon, but like something like that.
I think that really like taught me that lesson.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
That was one of the most powerful things I've ever
heard in my life. And was that moment that I
wanted to get to that I didn't know I would
get to. That would change somebody's life from hearing that.
Because that moment that you said what happened to me,
whether it was that person talking to you and you
now accepted that they have told you your value, that
moment that you looked in the mirror, I think this
(54:25):
is going to be the one of the most powerful
things people will ever hear. I thank you for being here.
We have so much in common. You know, you remind
me of the movie Step Brothers. Now, maybe you and
I will never speak again, but the movie Step Brothers
when you was like, did we just become best friends? Yep?
I think I just became your best friend. We got
(54:45):
so much in common, man, Thank you so much for
being here and being so vulnerable and sharing that uh
and That is why I do this. Because of that moment.
You will save somebody's life or many people's lives with
that common kerry and that vulnerability. Man, I really appreciate you.
Congratulations on your success. By the way, I want every way.
(55:06):
You know, we've never met each other. Our team put
us together and for you at this young age, twenty
years younger than me, coming from a whole different background,
for us to have those things in common, I really
appreciate you, man. Thank you and thank you.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Yeah, thanks for having me. It was great to meet you,
and I hope we do speak again because it's a
lot of fun. And yeah, thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
I'm not giving you Hollywood bullshit. I'm gonna have my
people connect this right now in text. Man, anytime when
you meet it, you are a law of value. Man,
You're making this place a better planet. Thank you, man,
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
I appreciate it all right.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
Gra That Moment with Damon John is a production of
the Black Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from the
Black Effect Podcast Network, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite show, and don't
forget to subscribe to and rate the show, and of
(56:00):
course you can at all connect with me on any of
my social media platforms. At the Shark Daymon spelt like Raymond,
but what a d
My default answer was, Oh, no, I can't do that.
Like I said that, I was like, Nah, that's you're
kidding me me And and then after the phone call,
I hung up and I was like what. I just
couldn't believe that. That was the thing that I My gut,
knee jerk reaction was You're not good enough to do that,
Like you're a joke sort of like that's a joke
(00:21):
that you would even be considered to do that. I
was like, I used to do these things. Why shouldn't
I be able to do it? Now?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Do it?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Now?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Do it?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Now?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Do it now? What if I told you there was
more to the story behind game changing events? Get ready
for my new podcast, That Moment with Damon John will
jump into the personal stories of some of the most
influential people on the planet, from business mobiles and celebrities
(00:47):
to athletes and artists. Here's a great spoiler alert for
you when it comes to this interview. It takes a
turn that I never expected, but I think is extremely powerful.
So when you think of the most successfully YouTubers, do
you think of entrepreneurs? Well maybe you do, because there's
a lot out there, and this one is the top.
If not. This guy is gonna definitely change that idea
(01:11):
for you. He's an award winning podcast and social media star.
Cody co has cracked the code to building a community
and the career through YouTube especially, and I am excited
to have him on and you're gonna learn some tricks
of the trade. So whether you are trying to convert
people on YouTube or in your retail store or online
(01:32):
in any way, you can learn from him. Because for
those of you who aren't familiar, here's why Cody should
be on your radar. For starters. He's playing around with
buying back in the days, and remember that thing. It
disappeared and very few people on that app realized that
they didn't have anybody's data. So when that app disappeared,
well all of their followers disappeared, but not his. The
(01:55):
same way that when covid happened and people had all
these people coming into their retail stories, they said, wait
a minute, my store is in trouble and I don't
even know where my customer is. They live down the block,
but I don't know how to get a hold of
them because I never got their contacts in any form.
And he is going to talk about how he was
able to move that over because he amassed fourteen million
(02:18):
supporters across social media after that, and he's also parlaying
those supporters into a career in music, live touring, entrepreneurial ventures,
and apparel. Cody was named the most Interesting YouTuber in
the world by Forbes and continues to demonstrate his business
acumen through investments in brand like Liquid Death. Alongside, he's
(02:43):
also done collaborations with Old Spice, McDonald's, for LG and
way more. He's also expanding his following through his podcast
Tiny Meat Gang, which he hosts with his comedy partner
Noel Miller. I love the show. The show is the
ten comedy podcasts and the two of them launched Tiny
(03:04):
Meat Gang Studios in twenty twenty one, which consists of
five shows of over two hundred million views, and people
listen to it all across the country and the world.
They love this network. I do too. This young man
is a shark already. You're gonna learn from him. Right now.
(03:24):
Let's get into it with Cody co Cody, thank you
for being here.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
How you doing good man? Thanks for having me. Nice
to meet you. Yours is one of my favorite episodes
of how I built this. I've of course watched Shark
Tank a fair amount, but that episode I listened to
that podcast pretty religiously and like that one. I remember.
I think I listened to that in twenty nineteen and
loved it every second of it.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
So well, thank you for that, man, And I am
a fan of yours from you know, your ability to
transition to be a business person. And I act actually
probably have to go back and listen to How I
built this to see what what is it about that
one that's so many people that I have a respect
(04:12):
for find value in it. It is. It is probably
the one I'm approached about the most by people who
are professors in universe with somebody the other night who
I'm on a board with on Overtime Sports said hey,
I use this as my opening to my class in NYU,
so I probably need to I don't know. Do you
(04:33):
feel the same way that I feel. I don't like
listening to my voice.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah, no, I don't like doing that either, So.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I don't want to hear damn podcast on myself talking
about shit that I already know about myself.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
And I also I have a really bad voice, Like
I really don't like my voice, and I have to
hear it a lot because a the podcast be YouTube.
But see, I also make a lot of music too,
so I have to listen to myself try to like
sound cool. And that's just like you.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Don't in the world. That's the point. You don't have
a bad voice, but you think you do, and I
the same. I don't know this is appropriate to say.
The only time I've heard of anybody, or witness anybody
who loved their voices and I wasn't cool with them.
I happen to go to a party of a holiday
(05:19):
party at R. Kelly's house, and there were a lot
of people there and I was walking around and he
was playing his own album, not a new one.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
I guess that kind of makes sense, but he was.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Walking around singing and going, oh that one, Oh I
love that song. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I mean, I guess in hindsight, it does you be like, yeah,
I guess you would do that.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah, people do sick things.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
All right, Well let's let's get off of that. But
what can we take away from that. I should have
probably got the hell out of that house at that moment. Yeah, probably,
all right, And so you know, I've already done the
intro and I'm there. There's so much unpack about this,
and so, you know, I kind of wrote down some
(06:12):
questions myself because I want to know that you know,
what was it and where was that moment that when
you realized you went viral all for the first time
on YouTube? Do you know where you were? Because of
course when you go viral, right, it's kind of like,
oh wow, those things picking up.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Oh yeah, I do. And it's actually kind of funny
that you that you mentioned King Bash and Amanda Sertni before,
because the first time I ever went viral on YouTube,
I still remember it so vividly because it was the
first time that I you know, YouTube is really hard
to crack, especially back ten years ago. Yeah, now there's
(06:54):
a lot of hacks and people have kind of figured out,
like mister Beasts is a good example, like he has
got the algorithm down to a science. You know, back then,
people were still learning like what makes what works? And
even even as a new creator on YouTube, you're not
only trying to figure out what people want to see,
but you're also trying to figure out your own style
and what's your own voice and how long should your
(07:15):
videos be and all that stuff. So I was experimenting
with tons of different styles of videos. I tried vlogs
didn't really work for me, and you know, like the
phrases the definition of insanity is doing the same thing
and expecting different results. I just figured out a certain point.
I got to switch things up, and I got to
(07:35):
figure out something that works for me and also something
that you know, people want to see. And I noticed
commentary was a popular genre on YouTube. It was gaining
popularity back then people just like you know, like I
don't know, like goofing on cringey content and you know,
giving their kind of opinion on things that they found
kind of weird. And so like I did a video
(07:57):
kind of making fun of those people's Instagram comedy videos,
and yeah, I kind of feel bad for it now,
but like that was the first time that that I
actually saw like serious traction on YouTube. I think that
video got like one hundred thousand views overnight or something,
and I've never even seen that type of traction before.
So I was like, oh my God, like something, I
(08:18):
have something here. So yeah, that was the first time
I ever felt traction on YouTube. And then from there,
I took that and kind of ran with the commentary
direction because I was like, I like writing, I like
performing this style of content because it is very comedic
and I can write jokes for myself, and then I
can also pick my sort of like subject Like I
(08:38):
did a video on like kind of like travel influencers,
like people that portray this like crazy life of them
living in Bali and on yachts and stuff like that.
So I wrote this whole essay kind of about that,
and that to this day is like one of my
you know, most quoted videos ever. So that don't really
(08:59):
really worked.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Let's go back to the what you kind of just
throw in the well you kind of feel bad about it? Now, Yeah,
when did you feel bad about it? When did you
start feeling bad about it? And why did you start
feeling bad about it?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I mean, I guess, I guess like as you kind
of grow up, you kind of it's hard to explain,
but it's like I think when you're younger, you're a
little at least for me, it was like I was
a little bit more naive, a little bit more vain,
you know, and as you grow older you realize it's
really more about life at least is more about like
(09:31):
family and love and who's in your life and trying
to bring positivity into the world. I used to kind
of make fun of people that said that because I
was again like sort of, you know, not I don't
think a nihilist is the right word.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
But.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
You know, I would like harp on negativity a little
bit and use it to my advantage. And I feel
like as you grow older, you kind of realize that's foolish.
You know, that kind of has a ceiling on it,
And it's also a little bit like you don't really
want to be putting that into the world because you'll
you'll receive it back sort of. So I think as
I've grown older, it's been more like I want to
skew more towards you know, stuff that's fun for everyone
(10:05):
to watch. I guess you know.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
You you found success in it, and as you as
you ended up finding more success in that that thought
process of growing older and being a little more self aware.
Why do you think that as you grow older people
understand there's a lot of people who will never get that. Yeah,
(10:28):
and they'll turn around and reflect on their life and
they'll say, I wonder why I'm not where I want
to be Yeah, right, I mean that's what I mean.
And you know, I got to tell you know, I
think one of those things of you being somebody so
popular and being able to admit that, I think it
shows a lot because I'll give you example. I was
the other day, I was walking, I was at Art Battle.
(10:50):
You know, it's a really really big event that happens
in Miami where artists from all around the world comes.
Is only fine artists. Only. Only other place that actually
is larger is in Basil, Germany, where it originated from.
And I was that a furniture. I didn't realize they
did furniture at the time, and you know, really design furniture.
(11:12):
Really small collection someplace I'm going it is the snootiest
people I've ever met in my life. Yeah, snootier than
the fine artists. I mean the fine artists actually generally
many of them are not snoothy. They they they have
this and if they're there, they have this expression. They
wanted to share it with people and they just want
to bring beauty to the world. So I'm walking by
(11:33):
a booth, I talked to somebody. I asked about a
question for a piece of furniture. The furniture is I
think five hundred thousand dollars. But the person at the
booth was writing, didn't even look at me, didn't even
give me the acknowledgement of looking at me when they
told me they were like five hundred thousand. Now you
would think that, you know, I mean normally, even if
(11:55):
you are a McDonald's, they thank you, you know, for
buying the fries. I didn't get a five hundred thousand
dollars a quote at a show that they would look
at you. And I got on and I went on
to my story and I said, I don't know who
these dummies are that hire these people who are representing
their brand and d D H. And I go on
for a little bit, and I said, well, maybe that's
the owner. And they're so good they don't need to
(12:17):
look at people. They're doing so well. And I said, well,
what if they're doing so damn well, why would they
be exhibiting at a show? And it's so such dummies,
you know, the person the owner of the gallery hits
me back and says, hey, I'm the dummy that hired
that person, and I'm appalled aut that, and I will
make this change, and I am I'm going to stop
(12:38):
these dumb acts of hiring these other people, whatever the
case is. And and I realized how harsh I was
to that person and that person's business. Yeah, and I
regret that. So, you know, I just want to I
want to bring it up that, you know, I think
that that will make me a better person. Now, trust me,
I've been I want to show for fifteen years that
I get to call people dummy.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, I want to, right, Yeah, I think, Yeah, I
think there's a right there are still the correct you know,
the right contexts to like sort of goof on things
and make fun of things or critique things. Yeah, I
definitely think that because I still do it. But it's
things now that I think and the way I guess,
like the the angle in which I do it, I
(13:22):
feel like is more lighthearted. Before it was very very critical,
you know. And so I do feel like I just
feel like the more you sorry to interrupt again, but
I mean I wanted to say, I think the more
I always make sure that I guess, I think, you know,
creating is a lot harder than critiquing. Yeah, And I
(13:42):
think in general that's true, And so I've always made
sure to try and create original works alongside my critiques, right,
so it keeps me honest. And the thing is the
more you the more you create, the less you want
to critique because the more you realize it of how
hard it is to create, like, you know, a genuine
piece of original content or media. So, you know, I
(14:06):
think as I've gotten older and as I've created more,
it just makes me want to, you know, pick on
other people's work less because it's like I don't know
their I don't know what their context is or why
they created this or you know, what their motivation was
at all, or what their audience is at all. You know,
sometimes I'm just like completely disconnected from their audience or
who they're they were targeting with that piece of media.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So now you know, you know, we we do know
that you start out on vine? How many how many
followers are? Did you have one vine at the time?
Speaker 1 (14:39):
I forget, but I think it was like three million
or four millions, definitely in the millions, and then it
went to zero and that and and for.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Those who don't know, when you have those that amount
of found three four million and it goes to zero.
If you weren't smart enough to be able to capture
their data so they know where you went. They're not
necessarily going to find you. Are they going to find
you on snapchat? TikTok? YouTube? And the vine? Content was
(15:13):
such a short period of content, will they be willing
to listen to a longer all view a longer piece
of content? When that thing went to zero? Do you
remember where you were? Because to get it up to
that amount of people, I would assume you had put
in a lot of work. Do you remember where you
were and what happened at that moment when you said
(15:35):
it's no longer there, it's zero, and I don't know
how to get back to these people?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, I mean I think that the signs were clear
for a while that it was kind of on the
up and out because the traffic was just way less.
Like you tell, videos were getting less likes, they were
getting less comments. It wasn't like people look back on
it now and they kind of think that it just
went like poof and it disappeared. But it's like it
(16:02):
was declining for a while before it went away. So
when it did go away, it was like, yeah, we
kind of all knew this was going to happen. At
some point. People so many more people were using Instagram
video than and it just seemed like that was kind
of the new meta, and so it kind of made sense.
But I mean when it did get like actually removed
from the app store and everything, it was kind of
(16:23):
like a wild like you know, like a knife to
the chest sort of like in the It was like
kind of like a finishing blow. It was more like,
oh wow.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Something, well, well, I I got to ask you. How
long was Vine around for?
Speaker 1 (16:36):
It was like like four or five years?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Right, how old are you? How old were you when
it went away?
Speaker 1 (16:43):
I think I was twenty four twenty five?
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Okay, And when did you start really engaging in social media?
Was viying the first platform or what was the first platform? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
It was Vine, So it was like when I was
twenty one basically.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Okay, So think about it like this. I mean, you
know a lot of things that I think you're saying.
You're just you're so advancing your thought process and that's
where you are that you're not realizing this. So if
for the first time you've ever really engaged in social media,
it's the only platform. You know, you were born into
social media, you're a social media native. And if it
(17:22):
lasts for four or five years, there is no telltale
that it's gonna go away, because true, what it went
away prior to that maybe what I don't even know MySpace,
you know, I don't know, right, And we see a
lot of people, don't. You see a lot of people
that are working a job or something. They've been there
(17:43):
ten twenty years, and they think, miraculously, at forty or
fifty years old, the lotto is they're gonna hit the
lotto where something's gonna happen. But realize that whether the
job goes away or you go away, something's gonna go
away if it doesn't change. And this is a platform
that that's all. You know, you're doing really well on it,
(18:05):
and you kind of see the warning size. I see
a lot of people that never see the warning sign.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a good point for sure.
It definitely was a conscious decision for me at least
to try to turn it into something bigger via you know,
moving people off the platform to another platform, because I think,
like I was at that point, I was kind of
like there was multiple factors. One of them was I'm Canadian,
(18:35):
so I needed a visa to stay in the States
and I was a software engineer, so I had a
visa specifically for that, and in order to do social media,
I needed a completely different visa. And once I had that,
it had to be my plan a. Legally, I could
not be a software engineer. I couldn't make money by
other means. I if I had the visa to kind
of be a creator. So once I got that, I
(18:57):
had no choice. I kind of had to figure out,
you know, like how to supplement my income on social media.
And so that was kind of also motivation for me.
I was like, I need I know that this is
I'm going to get this visa. I purposely applied for this,
so if I get it, I need to be in
a place where I don't. I'm not just my entire
livelihood is depending on one platform. I need to figure
(19:19):
out how to do merch how to do podcasting, how
to do you know, like how to get people to
watch me in a longer form so that they kind
of feel more engaged. You know, this was all I
wasn't like explicitly thinking all these things, but I knew,
like I had to try to turn it into something bigger. Otherwise,
you know, I might just have to go back to
being a software engineer, which was not a bad career.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
But as a commonality that you and I have a
lot of people don't have. My buddy shamp will say,
you always got to build an umbrella when it's sonny outside,
and yeah, it is great saying. And I went from
man on top of the world with clothing. But I
started to really to pivot while I was is there
(20:00):
to being an investor to buy more clothing brands. Cause
I looked like like you just said, all right, I
looked at the data and said, well, hot bashing brand
last five to seven years. If the kid has four
years of Fooboo and his or her closet in high school,
but what do you think they want in college? Fuboo again.
Now they're gonna pivot to something different, and maybe I'll
get the kid who is in junior high now right,
(20:22):
But I still got a pivot. I started investing in
all the brands. I didn't do well with the investing
on the brands, but I kept starting. I kept doing that.
Right then all of a sudden, I started investing in books.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I failed.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
My first book was okay, my second book failed. Started
investing in trying to understand media and everything else. But
I started doing it at the height of when I
was at something. You started doing that yourself as well. Right,
you go from you know, software engineer, vine's working, but
you're investing in, you know, moving in, and then all
(20:56):
of a sudden you're in YouTube. You know, fine, great,
Wait a minute, I want my own network. Where does
that mentality come from? Because you you've had that mentality?
Is that a family thing? Is it? You just literally
can look at the writing on the wall and say,
(21:16):
it's not gonna stay the same? Where does that mentality
come from? You know? But that's what I'm That's what
I'm interested in, the moment that you start to realize
that things will never say the same and no matter
how good they're doing, I got to build that umbrella.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, that's a good question. I think I will say
multiple things. A. It definitely comes from family, for sure.
My parents are like very very accomplished people, not only
in their careers but also in athletics. Like they're both
insane and durance athletes. So I grew up watching them
do iron Man's and my dad broke the world record
(21:53):
for the longest distance traveled in twenty four hours by
human power. So he engineered a bike and drove it
around a track for twenty four hours straight and went
thousands of kilometers and was then in the Guinness Book
of World Records one year. Like as a child, I
used to get that book for Christmas every year, and
then one year he was in it. He was in it.
(22:14):
He was in it. We just all did an Ironman
(22:36):
together last year. My dad is sixty one now I
think my mom's fifty eight or fifty nine or something.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Iron Man.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah, yeah, and that's that was their like twentieth. It
was my first, and they were nice enough to like
do it with me, to like support me. But yeah,
it's so growing up, this was like the norm for me.
It was like you you know, this is like my
parents would go out and train for hours every day
and then it was just normal for me to like
kind of so I think that kind of instilled in
(23:04):
me a deep yearning for personal growth. And I think
that like lives in tandem very nicely with figuring out
you know, career growth or I guess, like where you
go when you know it's sunny out, but you want
to build an umbrella? Why do you want to do
that because you want to challenge yourself, I think, and
(23:24):
I always have that in the back of my mind,
like that is kind of what fulfills me, is like, Okay,
this is going really well, but I want to figure
out what makes music good? How do how do I
make great music? I want to feel some success in
that realm because it's just a fun learning experience. I
love learning, and so I really lean into that, and
I lean into the naivete that like a new comer
(23:48):
has to any sort of field and I think you
have to. Yeah, So that like honestly just like makes
me happy. That would be like the simplest answer is that,
like kind of challenging my self makes me happy. And
what that manifests as is career growth because it's like, sure,
we have a podcast that's doing really well, what's the
(24:09):
next thing. Well, it's trying to build a business out
of that. Like let's try and be let's take all
this money that we were just splitting at the end
of the year and you know, taking as a dividend
and put it back into the company and hire some
people and try to grow this as a living, breathing
thing that someday will outlive us. I think that sounds
really exciting that just having a podcast that's successful for
(24:30):
ten years, because that gets old.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Does it? What? Could it be painful? I'm curious. I'm
really curious about this. We're going down a whole another
rabbit hole. Could it be? When? When do you know
how to create the balance of it? Because with your
parents being such accomplished people, I don't even want to
ask what they do for business because that's probably you know,
they probably don't know how to cut it off, or
(24:53):
they do know how to cut off. Excuse me, I
actually tell you that truth. Where do you find the balance?
Because to be such hard chargers as Oh yeah, I'm
sixty something, I'm just iron man with you. What are
we talking about here? I mean, I you know, there's
either shit, I've done it fifteen twenty times, or where's
I want to go and build something and do the
(25:15):
Guinness Book World Record? And here's what I'm getting at
one of my sharks, Robert Fellow, Shark Canadian, he said,
he called up David Goggins. You know, are you familiar
with David? Yeah? Yeah, we all love David. I mean,
and he said, you know, I don't want to take
the steam out of it. But he said, called it David,
(25:37):
and said they went to dinner. And Robert is a
very very disciplined man. This man runs five ten miles.
I mean, you know, he'll tell the story of how
he looks for marathons sometimes and he just gets on
the jets and finds a random marathon somewhere and just
runs it. And halfway through he realized he made a
really bad decision because he didn't crane at all. Right,
(25:57):
called it David, And.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
I would love to be that to just private jets
to a to a marathon that's happening tomorrow and be like, oh,
to do a marathon.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
He said, it's California one day and found Americtha, Oh
it's in Arizona. Wait, and then he flies to Arizona
really quick. You know, it's like on a Friday, it's
a marathon. He runs, he goes Saturday, hasn't ran from it,
you know, because he does five to ten miles in
the middle of Arizona, runs the marathon, no problem, mile five,
(26:25):
great mile ten, great mile sixteen. Everything locks up on
him in the middle of the desert in Arizona. Eighty
year old trained women running by him. He's hitchhiking. People
pull over in the car pick him up. The family's driving.
He's an old station wagon or something, and they're looking
(26:46):
in the back. He's like, they're dead. They're driving going,
aren't you. Robert from Shark Tank, you know, called it.
David Goggin goes to dinner with him and talks to David,
and of course David is the ultimate we all know,
Navy only person to be a Navy seal and a ranger.
(27:07):
And he say yes, and he's talking and David is
He's like, what do you do for fun? He was like,
me and three other guys and go to Vancouver. You know,
we jump out of planes with a shovel and we
fight fire, forest fires for four months. That's what you
do for fun. So I look him up, and you know,
I look up his Instagram. His wife is following him
(27:28):
in a ranger over. He looks like, you know, he's
running in the middle of the night, and he got
like a shovel in his hand if you go, and
he got a backpack and he's like, oh, David, and
the guys is celebrating, you know, end of the season.
And he's now at his twenty six mile running. He's
been running since, you know, eight o'clock at night. It's
like three in the morning, and that's what he does
(27:49):
for fun. And David says to Robert, if you don't
have pain, you don't have joy. Robert's like, oh, you
know dinner, I have this and that. What do you want, David?
One piece of letterce, have a chicken breast no skin. Yeah,
oh I don't have a little tequila and something. What
do you want, David? Have a glass of warm water only? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
It's like, where is the joy? You gotta have a
joy at some point.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
It can't be all pain. Robers like, check please, And
I'm scared. How do you cut it off? Because I'm
the same, you know, and a lot of times that
you find very successful people whatever you believe successes, they
go very hard on what they have and the reason
why you look at so many successful people. We can't
cut it off. How do you cut it off? Because
you're younger than me, you are filled with testosterone. The
(28:39):
life is, you know, an oyster. Your parents have accomplished
so much. Do you are you able to cut off
the drive or does it drive you crazy?
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yeah? Okay, I think I have an answer for this,
I would say the first answer would be my wife.
I think she's very good at kind of grounding. She's
kind of like my you know, I look at her
and she she's taught me like how to actually relax
and enjoy things and think about love and not only
think about progress and what's next and whatever. It's like
(29:13):
she taught me how to live in the moment, you know,
and take take days where you're just enjoying.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Were you were you before before she taught to you that?
Were you kind of what I'm saying just really concentrating
on which is fine right at that age when you
were earlier on your life, were you only concentrating on
the success? Is saying I can't use this time as
idle time. I need to I need to do this. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
I've always been like that where it's like any waking hour,
but the thing is like I'm either working towards progress
or I'm partying, you know. Like that was always kind
of an issue for me. Is like my only outlet
was like I work hard and then I played just
as hard. So I went through a period where I
was like really struggling with that too, because I can't
(29:59):
shut it off in my brain. So it's like I'm
either like whatever i'm doing, i'm doing very hard. So
if if it's not working, it's relaxing as hard as
I can, which is not relaxing. You know, that's not
a RESTful thing.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
On the moment that she put it to, well, when
when did you realize and I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna
go back to my moment with my wife in a
very similar aspect of the moment. But when when was
that moment that she that you realize, Wow, she yes,
this this works.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I can't really put my finger on one moment, but
I just know, like the way that her and her
family hang out, you know, they just sit and they
just enjoy each other's companies for for hours on end,
you know, stuff like that, like being a part of that.
Not that my parents don't do that, but it's just
it's in a different way, you know, seeing the way
that other people, other families, I guess a family that
(30:49):
I'm a part of now, how they express love and
how they because my family and I like the way
we express love is we go out and we do
we do things together, like we'll go on a bike,
like I said, I grew up doing bike trips. Every
vacation is the is. It's what people make fun of online.
It's a workout vacation, you know what I mean, Like
we wake up and we run ten miles so that
we can have a great meal afterwards or whatever. And
(31:11):
so like being a part of a family that expresses
love and affection and you know, critical time in a
different manner Like that kind of woke me up to
sort that style of relaxation. And then the other I
will say is is kind of leaning into the seasonality
(31:32):
of life. I think. I know it's a little poetic,
but like growing up in Canada, like seasons were a
big thing, and when you move to La it's like
seasons aren't really a thing, not as obvious anymore. So
it's kind of non But what's good about seasons and
weather is it it divvys up the year and for
very noticeably different chunks. I think if you treat kind
(31:55):
of work like that or personal endeavors like that, it's
a little bit help at least for me in my mind,
so that I'm not NonStop, go go go. It's more
like this is my project right now, I'm training for
an iron Man, and I'm gonna do an iron Man.
It's gonna take me eight months. But when I'm done,
I'm going to take a month or two off and
then I'm going to get right back to it after that.
(32:15):
So leaning into that too, it's kind of helps me
compartmentalize things in my mind, which helps me deal with
anxieties and stuff when all I want to do is go, go,
go all the time, you know, you were saying about
your Sorry I interrupted, you were saying about your wife.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
No, no, you didn't interrupt me. I was going to
go into another way of that because you know, there's
a lot of people listening, and they're going to hopefully
have respect for you and I because of our ability
to keep going hard. But and they may think, or
they may not realize that it's very, very common to
(32:53):
be business people, people who go hard in any aspect
of life. And that's why you know, business men and women.
If you ever hear the Billy Joel's song the Piano
Man and then the Piano Man, he says something like that,
and the businessman get stoned, right, Because when if you
(33:16):
travel the world like we have, you'll see at the
end of the night the businessmen and women are lined
up at the bar because there's a release, because you
can't cut it off. And if you don't find that
other release, whether it be push ups, you know, running
that that night, calling your little girl or your wife
(33:38):
or your little boy or your mother and just down,
you know, getting rid of all all this shit that's
gonna no matter what, still be there. You don't get
the release, and they use this to escape. And it
was that moment as well. The same thing with my wife.
(33:58):
I had always had. You know, I come from, you know,
a very hard place, and it was just my mother
and I and you know, when you come from the hood,
you don't necessarily have When you have disagreements with people,
you don't know where it's going to go right, and
so you have to have this hard shield. And you
(34:20):
I don't know if I got to beef with you,
I don't know how it's going to figure out. And
I used to hold whenever we had not anybody else
I had this kind of disagreement or challenge, I held
it in for a long period of time and I
harbored that beef. I may not speak them for two
three days. I want to calm down. D D d dah.
And it was it was in my mid thirties that
my wife I realized it no matter if we had
(34:43):
a disagreement or not, it wasn't that serious. And I
could let my guards down a couple of hours later
because she was like, honey, it's okay, and she wasn't
gonna get back at me. So it's kind of like,
how you have this woman that came in your life
to show you that there are seasons or there is
time to enjoy the moment. And it was that moment
that one time I after probably about really two three
(35:05):
years of having this beef where oh you know, wherever
I had an issue with her that I was like,
I ain't talking about that and I held this damn
problem for two three days and she was like, it
doesn't have to be two three days. I forgive you,
or even if I was wrong, we're good. And a
lot of people don't realize that. So I love the seasonality.
I think to think about it like a seasonality, you know,
(35:28):
and find those moments.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Now let's get into it. Let's get into okay. Now,
all of a sudden, you have a successful podcast and
you're saying yourself, let's invest more money back into the podcast.
Why do you believe that? Oh? Why did you believe
in that moment? Because now all of a sudden, you know,
you do have I think six under your you know,
your network. Why should people believe in your ability to
(35:57):
help them and to harness and be an umbrella or
a help with that podcast? Why why would people believe
in that? And how were you able to convince other
people to believe in you.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
The one thing that we did, you know, really well
with our with our show is from the from the
get go was the visual aspect of the podcast. We
always took very very seriously, so we always had like
we always tried to make it sort of a YouTube
forward podcast. And then and then the other thing was
was we self produced everything for you know, ever since
(36:33):
the very beginning. It was always us doing all the
like buying the gear, doing the recording, doing that, all
the post you know, production, editing, posting, channel management, everything
was us. And when we launched the show, we did
it on Patreon, so we were basically making money right away,
but we were doing everything ourselves, so we learned what it
(36:54):
took to make a great show from the ground up.
So we had all the knowledge on how to produce
a great podcast. We had five years of experience or whatever,
it's like three or four years by the time we
started this business experience on like you know, building an audience,
creating a great show. And then so we thought we
(37:14):
were in a good place to kind of take that
knowledge and and apply it to other creators who we
thought had you know, a similar talent or different talents
or better talents. And then we also, you know, I
guess like reputation was also a part of it too,
just knowing, you know, audience wise, that people trusted that
we had a show that they enjoyed. So you know,
(37:35):
our our I guess co sign of another show would
carry a certain weight.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Well did it help you all the time? Because you know,
there are a lot of people going to say, yeah,
you do great doing what you do. How how can
you represent me? You know a lot of people many
people often would say, well you're good over there. How
would you be you know, great for me behind the scenes?
And as you pitched yourself to other people, did you
go in and say, well, you know, you know, look
(38:03):
at who I am, look at what I have? A
commage of course I could do that, but you or
did you have to humble yourself and say, no, let
me show you the method, what we do, how hard
we work at it, and how hard will work for you.
Because some people think their reputation is only going to
get them in the door, but some people believe their
reputation is all they need to to have to to
(38:23):
get other successful people to believe in them.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah, I mean, that's a good question. I think I
think it was definitely, you know, somewhat of a risk
for us and for the talent that we were signing
right off the get go. It was more and this
was more like relationships that we had developed with these people.
You know, we were friends with them outside of outside
of production and media. So it was like, listen, we're
(38:47):
doing this. We've done a great job of this. We've
built a fantastic team. Look at how high quality our
show is. We want nothing but to bring this to you.
And yes, you're going to have to trust us a
little bit. But you know, I think like selling ourselves
was something that we Yeah, we also had to learn,
I would say, and that you know that's never ended.
(39:11):
I guess like we're still learning on the best way
to deal with talent and produce shows that leave them
in the audience as happy as possible. And we want
to keep doing those things until they're you know, until
like talent are just absolutely thrilled with with the fact
that they're working with us, and and we hope that
we're there now. But we want to just continue that,
(39:32):
you know, and just continue learning from our mistakes and
creating a great company.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I want to so you that that's that's great because
a lot of people feel like, you know, there's one
moment when you've arrived, and I don't believe there's any
moment when you've arrived because there's nothing to strive for.
But you would name by Forbes as the most interesting
YouTuber in the world. What year was that?
Speaker 1 (40:00):
I think that was like three four years ago.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
When that happened. Did you feel like you arrived or
was there because you could either had imposter syndrome, You
could have had either arrived or you could have had
This is a really great step. I really appreciate it.
I'm in the moment. Let's keep going. Which any of
(40:45):
those three or maybe another one?
Speaker 1 (40:47):
That's a good question. I will say, like I kind
of at that point. I remember like when that went live,
I kind of remember thinking, it is nice that I,
I don't know, it's nice to read a little bit
of like formal recognition on what I've been working on. Right,
Like that did feel kind of nice because up until
that point I was I did feel like I was
(41:08):
working on a million things and you know, trying to
cast the widest net as possible, and you know, like
we were working on music at that point. I think
at that point, our music was just starting to take off.
So we're starting to get tens of millions of streams
as well as you know, launching podcasts and trying to
keep up with YouTube, and it just all felt very
(41:28):
And then we were touring do we were like doing
live shows, and so it felt like very like sporadic
and just like I don't know what to focus on.
Are these the right things? And then that one article
came out and kind of was like he's doing all
these things, and I was like, oh man, it is
kind of it does feel good to hear someone else
say that. But then I will say I kind of
fell into the trap of you know, reaching a feeling
(41:53):
like I had arrived, so I can kind of stop
I fell into that trap hard. When COVID hit, I
was like, this is a great excuse to kind of,
you know, maybe maybe I just need to chill. Maybe
that's why I've been feeling so anxious and blah blah blah,
is because I just need to relax. I did it.
I made some money, I got some recognition. It's time
to just completely stop caring and being passionate.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Well, you didn't mean stop what you were doing. You
didn't mean stop tiny meat gangs or stop a.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
No no, no, yeah, I mean it kind of everything was
on the fritz at that point, Like we couldn't tour.
We went from like touring the world all of a
sudden to just being locked in our apartments where those
things weren't even like physically possible, and so we stopped
kind of working on music. We still did the podcast
every week, but I just kind of stopped feeling that
(42:47):
desire to like figure out what's next. And I kind
of fell into like drinking too much and you know,
kind of resorting to to bad habits because I thought
like maybe that's what I needed at that point or whatever,
And so I stopped working out. So like the endurance athletics,
(43:07):
part of my life stopped being a thing and I
fell into this like horrible just I mean, I would
say rutt is kind of like a gentle term for it.
But it really just felt like I wasn't optimistic anymore,
which was a horrible feeling. It's considering like optimism, I
think is one of my strongest qualities, and I just
didn't have it anymore. I was like, I just like
(43:29):
didn't know what to do because I just felt like
so uncertain about the future, which was weird.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
And but what triggered that? What triggered that? Because I mean,
now all of a sudden you talk about like your
Thorfinny war, Remember when of these showed up and he
had a punch a big old belly and shit and
he was chilling. What what what triggered? Now, don't get
me wrong, this is a pandemic, and we all thought
(43:54):
we were going to be off for a month, right,
And all of a sudden I went through it too, right,
you know, all of a sudden. You know, I don't
I don't necessarily know if I had a problem, but
I can turn around and say I had a habit
in knowing myself as a hard charger. The habit that
I said, ah, i'll stop drinking, I'll stop doing this.
That habit didn't stop. And I'm sure you know your
parents probably came home and said what the hell or
(44:16):
saw you or whatever, like, what the hell's wrong with you? Man?
What triggered that though? Because, yeah, there's a moment of cool.
But was it? Was it just again maybe you saying
you're a hard charger. You said, man, I'm gonna drink.
I'm gonna drink. I'm gonna relax. I'm gonna relax. Oh,
we got the Forbes thing here. When this thing is over,
I'll get back to it. Wait a minute, it's not
(44:37):
over yet. Wait a minute's not over. I'll have another drink.
Wait a minutes, not over it, I'll have another drink.
What what triggered that?
Speaker 1 (44:43):
I think you nailed it. I think it was the
combination of all those things. It was. It was everything
was going so well until the pandemic hit that I
used that kind kind of as an excuse to, like,
instead of find a productive way for me to keep
feeling like I'm getting better and progressing. Instead, I found
(45:04):
something destructive where you know, it was something to keep
me occupied, but it wasn't. I wasn't being occupied or
stimulated in the right way. And all I was doing
was leading me down a darker and darker path and
so like, And it was a combination of everything. It
was like, Oh, I did it already, what else? What
else is there left to do? You know? I got
(45:25):
the money, I like, bought a house in Malibu. I
was like, ah, I'm good, I did it. But it's like,
that's that's such like a toxic mindset, you know. And
I think it's which sounds a little bit hypocritical, hypocritical
of me to say that, because I'm talking about you know,
before I was talking about learning when to relax and
stuff like that. But I think everything goes hand in hand.
It's like the seasonality of life is there for a reason.
(45:48):
It's because you have to pick back up and you
have to start again, like the hard work season is
still gonna come, and you can't just keep going down
this darker and darker path of relaxing. And I did
it because that's just going to leads you to a
life of misery. That took me a while to realize
because I wasn't even sure why I was sad. I
was like, I I did it, I made it. I
(46:08):
get to just relax all day and cave to my vices.
Why am I sad? These things make me happy? But
then I took finally it was like started. I signed
up for an ultra marathon and I started training for
it again. I started to like find my purpose again.
And with that came that optimism and the happiness that
I was missing before. And that is what woke me
(46:29):
up to like, oh yeah, okay, this makes a lot
of sense. You can't just you can't just these things
feel good because they feel good momentarily. But the more
they feel good, the more they feel shitty. And I
think the opposite is true for productive things. The more
it hurts, the more it feels good in the end.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
You know, so you never arrived, and I think that
you are saying it is hypocritical, but I think that
what you're saying is exactly what so many people don't say,
or people that other people look up to with the
vulnerability of it. And then other people turn around and go,
wait a minute, but you know you're supposed to go
hard or wait a minute, I'm a loser when it's
(47:08):
not hypocritical. The only thing I regret about what you're
saying is that you didn't call meat during those times
because I was going through the same shit and we
could have both been drunk. But that's what happened to me,
you know, I was, you know, just like all of us, right,
you know, because if you think about it, and there
are people listening right now and I know we're going
to bring this to an end and we never know
(47:28):
where it's going to go, is that you know, I
actually have one person in my life right now who's
in the hospit who's in hospice because they weren't able
to turn out of that curve. And when you are
somebody who is in the pandemic, or on vacation, or
going through a transition in your life, or celebrating or
(47:48):
traveling too much and at a bar, the device of
alcohol and liquor is not frowned upon the same way
that other things in life may be frowned upon. And actually,
when you're going through it, if you're not drinking, people go,
what is wrong with you? How dare you? You know?
And you know, what are you kidding me? Let's have
(48:09):
a drink, right, And it is promoted everywhere. Right, every
single time that you see a billboard, a commercial, anything else,
everybody looks super sexy drinking. You don't see pop belly
people going oh my god, I'm about to die. Right,
And every time you know, you go to a restaurant,
you even get it, you get it for Christmas and holidays. Right,
And it's something that is promoted unless you have true
(48:32):
the ability to reflect and say I can enjoy, but
I or maybe I should stop and enjoy different things. Don't.
You're not hypocritical. We are human beings. We go up,
we go down, night and day. Like you said, right, summer, fall, spring, right, winter.
I think it is critical. What did you do? Where
(48:53):
was the moment when you said, I'm going too far
or it's been too long and I am going to
stop and do this Because some people, like my friend
in the hospice, never get out of that turn, and
some people feel like it's bad and they were weak.
(49:15):
But it's all around us. This vice is all around us.
So imagine if this world or this country did not
have alcohol, there would be imagine sports games, how much
money they would not make, hotels, bars, lounges. It's all
around us. I didn't think the interview would go to
the part of I don't drink anymore. I don't. I
(49:37):
lost forty pounds not drinking, and I said to myself,
I just took inventory and said, I don't know. I'm
trying to escape with it. It's nice, you know, I'm cool, right,
I didn't never have a problem with it, like I said,
But you know what, every time I drink, I got
empty calories. I wake up in the morning, I want
a greasy cheeseburger. My wife does not drink. I'm probably
(49:58):
you know, the smell alcohol makes her, uh, you know, nauseous.
I may have said one or two stupid things the
night before to somebody, or may have been too nice
to somebody who I don't want to be around, and
the alcohol was numbing me. I stopped. I tried the
(50:18):
every other drink of water, drink on just tuesdays dry January.
It doesn't work. I like the taste of this stuff.
When did you, uh, what was the moment that you said, nah,
no more?
Speaker 1 (50:32):
I mean I still I still do it, no problem?
Speaker 2 (50:35):
When did yeah?
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Like, I like move But but here's the thing, like
it's something that I still definitely struggle with a little bit.
And I say struggle in the sense where you know,
like I'm not even entirely sure again, like it's a problem,
but like I do think about it a lot. And
if you're thinking about something a lot, something's something's a
little weird there. It's if alcohol. I think a healthy
(50:57):
relationship with alcohol is you don't think about it, you
know what I mean. I think about that a lot.
It's like it's like if you're thinking constantly like should
I have a drink? I don't, but I haven't think
tomorrow all this stuff. It's like you probably it's probably
healthier to just give it up entirely. And when I
do that, I like every year I'll go sober for
like fifty to one hundred days at a time, and
it's like I always feel way better. So it is
(51:17):
something I still I'm like, I think one day, like
this will be a part of my life that I
just don't look back on. In terms of finding a
balance or whatever. It's like, I don't. I think the
balance is none. Eventually, I want to do that. So
it's something I still am striving to do, you know,
But it's harder said than they're easier said than done.
But I think I'm thirty three now, so yeah, I
(51:42):
think like the moment at least in that sort of
darker period where I realized I had to make a change, though,
was my parents called me. They told me they were
doing this ultra marathon and my sister was doing it,
my brother in law was doing it. And my default
answer was, Oh, no, I can't do that. Like I
(52:04):
said that, I was like, nah, that's you're kidding me me,
and and then I after the phone call, I hung
up and I was like what. I just couldn't believe that.
That was the thing that I My gut knee jerk
reaction was You're not good enough to do that, Like
you're a joke, sort of like that's a joke that
you would even be considered to do that. I was like,
I used to do these things. Why shouldn't I be
(52:25):
able to do it now? And I just realized right
then at the table, I was like, I've totally lost
the confidence in myself. It was very, very like sobering,
bizarre moment for me. So I called them back and
I said, I'm gonna do it. Yes, I'm gonna do it.
This is something that I can do and I'm gonna
do it. I'm gonna train and do it. And then
after that it was like I showed up for my
(52:46):
I started just showing up for myself more and more,
which I think is something that if you're struggling with
alcohol or any sort of vice, that's something that you
lose because you cave over and over again to this vice.
So you want to stop. You tell yourself I should
be stopping. Why can't I do this? And then you
cave over and over again, so you just spiral down
(53:09):
that horrible you know well, where it's like you're not
good enough to stop the addictions or the whatever device
is bigger than you, so that completely evaporates your self confidence.
Then you start it starts to bleed into other things
of your life where you're like, I can't rely on myself,
so my word is no good even to myself, which
(53:31):
is so toxic, I think. And as soon as I
started showing up for myself again, that bled into other
parts of my life where I was more confident to
go out and try and build a business, or or
start a new YouTube channel, or try a new style
of comedy, because it's like I know I will do
the work to make sure that this happens. Because I
(53:52):
was able to do the work and make sure that
I showed up for this ultra marathon. It doesn't have
to be an ultra marathon, but like something like that.
I think that really like taught me that lesson.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
That was one of the most powerful things I've ever
heard in my life. And was that moment that I
wanted to get to that I didn't know I would
get to. That would change somebody's life from hearing that.
Because that moment that you said what happened to me,
whether it was that person talking to you and you
now accepted that they have told you your value, that
moment that you looked in the mirror, I think this
(54:25):
is going to be the one of the most powerful
things people will ever hear. I thank you for being here.
We have so much in common. You know, you remind
me of the movie Step Brothers. Now, maybe you and
I will never speak again, but the movie Step Brothers
when you was like, did we just become best friends? Yep?
I think I just became your best friend. We got
(54:45):
so much in common, man, Thank you so much for
being here and being so vulnerable and sharing that uh
and That is why I do this. Because of that moment.
You will save somebody's life or many people's lives with
that common kerry and that vulnerability. Man, I really appreciate you.
Congratulations on your success. By the way, I want every way.
(55:06):
You know, we've never met each other. Our team put
us together and for you at this young age, twenty
years younger than me, coming from a whole different background,
for us to have those things in common, I really
appreciate you, man. Thank you and thank you.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Yeah, thanks for having me. It was great to meet you,
and I hope we do speak again because it's a
lot of fun. And yeah, thanks so much.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
I'm not giving you Hollywood bullshit. I'm gonna have my
people connect this right now in text. Man, anytime when
you meet it, you are a law of value. Man,
You're making this place a better planet. Thank you, man,
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (55:38):
I appreciate it all right.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
Gra That Moment with Damon John is a production of
the Black Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from the
Black Effect Podcast Network, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite show, and don't
forget to subscribe to and rate the show, and of
(56:00):
course you can at all connect with me on any of
my social media platforms. At the Shark Daymon spelt like Raymond,
but what a d
Host
Daymond John
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