Brief Interlude w/ Kerry Butler

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of the law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
These are our stories, done.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Done, Yay, that's messed up. In SVU podcast, my name

(00:31):
is Liza Traeger and I am Makara Klank, and every
week we recap.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
An episode of SVU, talk about the true crimates based
on and then talk to a cool guest, an actor
from the show usually and then but first we catch
up and see what's going on.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
And there's a lot happening right now.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
I'm also if you'd like to be enrayed. I should
have went to bed last night. I didn't. I put
on Gone Girls, the Gilgo Beach, fucking Long Island killer.
We covered this before it was solved, so that was
episode eighty six.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
I like reread your notes because I was like, I
wonder what, like what we knew, what we didn't know?

Speaker 2 (01:10):
What if you just want to be enraged by police ineptitude,
corruption fucked up?

Speaker 3 (01:16):
I mean I I should have gone. I couldn't go
to bed.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
I mean I was, oh my god, outrage fists in
my bed, like We always talk about police being so
bad at their job, but this is so hard. Just
so many women sex workers brutalized, murdered, tortured. No one
gave a fuck, No one wanted to investigate. Even when
evidence would come out, they fought it. They wouldn't work

(01:39):
with other departments, which was in your notes. But like
it's a really good it's a really well done three
part doc. So just three parts, Okay, it's great.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
I watched all three. I watched all I'm so mad.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
God, it's like, yeah, well, I mean, but it is
good that they caught it. It's like, these guys, you're
not getting away with stuff in this day and age
where we are catching.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
Well now they had to.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
They had to fucking put one police commissioner in prison,
get rid of this other DA. They were colluding. They
were fucking crazy. They're committing all these crimes. Then we
bring in someone else she could. It took three different
regime changes in this And I guess Suffolk County is
the largest police precinct department in the country. They're like

(02:28):
very powerful, they're the most well paid police officers in
the country.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
And I guess Long Island's the biggest island in America.
I mean, I had no fucking idea.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Wait, did they talk about how weird the vibe was
in the town, because that was a lot of part
of my research was like this town was really weird.
Everybody kind of knew each other and covered up ship
for each other and stuff too. Remember like this one
specific little.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Town where like it all was going down near Gilgo Beach.
The vibes were weird. But it's just like, I guess
I don't.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
Find them different from other cases we've covered where it's
like kind of small even though it's this big island,
it's small town. It's cops, it's a Republican, it's blue line,
and it's fuck sex workers.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
They're not real people, right, you know.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
It's there's a fucking recording of this girl terrified and
people are like, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
She sounds like maybe she went ran away, Like Carara,
how could I go to bed?

Speaker 2 (03:27):
There was a fucking press conference where one of the
one of the white old men.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
That's a nightmare. I forgot which one goes. It was.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
She accidentally went in there typothermia, she took off for clothes.
It's accidental death. But then they brought in Michael Badden.
But it's so yeah, if you want to listen to
oh that, yes, before it was solved and then now
finally a task for and it was I mean decades

(03:55):
these uh, these victims wanted justice and they talked to
witness says who knew who the people looked like, like
they had experiences. They gave the information. They had the
information of what kind of car this motherfucker drove, his
physical description, they had decades went by. It's like, it's
truly fucking sane. He was like the who they find

(04:17):
out did it was like the house kids didn't go
to for trick or treating a fucking creep, you.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
Know what I mean. It's not like anyone was like
get out of town. Not that nice man.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah, oh my god, yeah, fuck all right, we gotta
watch it.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
They had information for forever. They wouldn't connect it, they
wouldn't investigate. It's just like it really is disgusting.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, crazy, Well no, no easy segue off of that, but.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
I mean no, it is. Well, well, we could go
to wait, what are you gonna do? Lots of TV
White House.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Listen, we went to the White House, the White Life.
Let's just talk about the second one. I cannot talk
about the first one.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
What do you mean, what's wrong? They're just snatching people
off the streets. I'm sending them to Salvador, who cares God.
Not a huge deal.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
The Supreme Court is letting him run unchecked. But I
we went to Lego Land. Everybody, we did it. It
was great, it was amazing, it was a wonderful day.
It was a perfect little trip for two little kids.
But the only my only gripe with Lego Land is
every place you eat at Lego Land, where, by the way,

(05:33):
the food is like pretty gross and its extremely expensive,
like every amusement park, but every food is like lives
on an island by itself. So if you want to
go pizza, you gotta go to the pizza place. If
you want chicken, you gotta go to the chicken place
if you want it. And it's like if you're eating
in a family where people eat different things, it's very
very annoying because you have to like take Oscar to
chicken town while I'm taking Rosie to pizza town and

(05:53):
it's not like and it's not like a food court.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
Right, that's the thing. It's like, make it a food court.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Kids are psychotic, you know, like just but besides that,
fucking we get the best weather. The kids were so
jazzed about everything that we went on a bunch of
roller coasters. We made Oscar lie about his age. He
did it. It was amazing, it was great. But so
that's what did they buy? What did they buy? What
he got?

Speaker 3 (06:16):
Stuffy?

Speaker 1 (06:17):
Rosie obviously got a stuffy of what like a square?

Speaker 3 (06:22):
What is it?

Speaker 1 (06:22):
Not even Lego related. It's like a fucking dog. It's
like some dog. And I go, Rosie, this isn't even
really legal, and she goes, please, I want it so bad.
And I was like, all right, well, I mean I'm
not gonna argue with you. I was like, you don't
want to get a Lego set? Where at Lego Land? No,
Oscar got Elsa and Anna's like a mini castle from Arundel.
But I also got him a bigger one for his birthday,

(06:45):
so he's gonna get that later. I have a little
name drop, but I did so.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
I did go to Mateo Lanes Radio City Music Hall
show obviously incredible. I got to chit chat with Bob
the drag queen, you know, and the green room in
the green Room, he hosted the most beautif full outfit
I've ever seen, and I just like, I can't even
But Bob said that Adina Menzel is the most famous
Broadway actor in the world, and I was like, huh,

(07:12):
I want to kind of like find an argument.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
He goes, well, you won't, but when you do, you
could let me know.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
And I've been thinking about it, and because I was like, oh,
because of Frozen and then it's like Rent Wicked, like
just the most recognizable, probably the most box office or
like profitable.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
But I guess so, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, I'm sure like physically, I remember.

Speaker 1 (07:35):
I'm sure we have listeners that are like screaming at
their uh like phones right now. But I mean, I yeah,
because it's like Patty Lapone is obviously a regular people
don't know her, don't know who she is. Ye, it's
not what Bob's saying. It's not like who do you think.
It's like people don't know her. Yeah, if you could
put someone they don't know, Kristin Chenowith too, is like,

(07:58):
I mean, you could argue Christian Chanowitz. She's done a lot.
Sutton Foster starred in her own television shop dumber, which
is I don't think appearing now on Netflix and getting bigger.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
I don't know, Casey, are you thinking you're moving your
mic around? I feel like you're I think I think
the answer is Lynn Manuel.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Oh but Oya should should? I should? I hit?

Speaker 4 (08:25):
That?

Speaker 3 (08:26):
Is it lip? That's just my recognize.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, that's a good question. He was in the New
Mary Poppins. I mean, I'm just saying he does like
stuff where he's on camera.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
You never heard of it.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
I think that could be he's like the Dick van
Dyke of of Emily Blunts Mary Poppins.

Speaker 3 (08:48):
But yeah, yeah that's good. That's not a bad one.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, that's an interesting and it is so
funny because like some of these people are so well
known and it's like, yeah, you wouldn't really know them
unless you're like a Broadway person, you know.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeah that's what I mean, because I would I would
maybe think of other but no, no.

Speaker 3 (09:11):
No, well that's an interesting Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
If you have your leave a comment on today's episode
on Instagram in the comment section, let us know who
you think, cause like I am wondering, like if Dina
Menzel has the actual name recognition. If you went into
like deep rural like America, And you said, do you
know who Adina Menzel is? I think some people will
go know and you're like, but have you seen Frozen?

Speaker 3 (09:34):
Oh? Sure, she's the voice of Elsa.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
Have you seen Rent, she's the voice of Maureen, you know,
or she like if you if you've heard Rent or whatever? Uh,
but yeah, no, I think Lynn Manuel is the only
uh the biggest crossover because of Malana and just Hamilton
did something to Broadway that probably Wicked maybe did, but.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
I don't know. I was in high school. I wasn't
like thinking about this in high school. I was just yeah,
Wicked was like Wicked was like.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
You waited in the lottery, you really wanted to get
into the Wicked lottery or whatever, but like if you
didn't get into the Wicked Lottery, like I ended up
getting tickets like for cheap a few months later, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
Like Hamilton was like you could not.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
See it for years unless you shelled out like a
ton of ton of money. So Hamilton was something like
kind of extraordinary. I'm assuming you know, but maybe some
of our listeners don't know. Do you know who the
producer of the Broadway show Othello is right now, it's
enzal and.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
J Hill Hall.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
Is it Candy It's fucking candy Bird. Yeah, I mean,
could she dominate more industries?

Speaker 5 (10:40):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (10:40):
It was her time to leave. It was her time
to leave Atlanta. She's too busy. But I want to
go right into Atlanta. And yeah, oh my god. Devastating,
it's a devastating it's heard of events upset once again.
Real Housewives is in the true crime genre. Okay, So
just to give everybody background, because I know not all
of you are in our obsession that we are. Real

(11:02):
house wass of Atlanta has had a bunch of regulars
obviously for years. This year there was like a like
a like a half shake up. I would say, there's
like three or four. There's three or four new girls
on the show, right, Shamia, Britt, Angela, and Kelly.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
So there's new women on it.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
And this new woman comes on and she starts tangling
with an old an old cast member, an older cast member,
not old in age, old in you know, seniority, Kenya Moore,
who notoriously goes low.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
This girl, Britt started out gotten.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
It with Kenny, thinking I think Cynthia maybe had the
right theory of like you having a perception of Kenya
because of the show and her fame, and I feel
like Britt was just coming reading into stuff through that
lens and not being in reality because I saw Kenya
maybe being a little petty, but like nothing to have
warranted what you're about to say that Britt did.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, so that Britt did, or that Kenya did that Britt.
Britt threatened her with guns. Britt said, I have my
pistol on me, I have my fucking gun. I have
guns and knives and I don't play. Oh. I didn't
hear her say on me. I just thought she you're right,
you should not threaten guns. I just did not have

(12:16):
everything to gus at home that you can't. Yeah, they
were at a state so they're at a dinner.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
Guns is insane. Yeah, they're at a dinner.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
They have a fight, and they and and Kenya start
and this girl is just like, I'm leaving and starts
walking out and she's yelling all this shit at Kenya
and she says something like I have pistols, I have knives, whatever,
and she's threatening. I never got the feeling that she
had that stuff on her. I thought she meant like
I have weapons in my arsenal and I'll come for

(12:46):
you or whatever. I never I didn't think it was
like a big threat. I thought what Kenya did was
way worse, way worse.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
Difficult to watch, yeah, stating to see it's like we're
on the same page there, Okay, but Britt should have
been reprim I mean Britt came to apologize like Kenya,
I can't believe she did that. It's like, it's sad
to see you kind of see this rage on her
in a way of like just this anger. Where was

(13:19):
she wasn't even thinking clear, like it was this huge
event for her. Was like so Kenya so basically okay.
So that's at the dinner the night before Britt, they
get into a fight and Brittany, I think Britt has been,
you know, picking at her in this way, threatens her.
So now it's a hair salon opening. You know, Kenya's
being really vulnerable. She like, I put a lot of

(13:39):
money into this. I need this to be a success.
It's this huge party. Britt does come, apologizes, brings flowers.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
So but ken You ignores her, ignores.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Her, flatly, does not won't look at her, talks like
over her, like yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
Because she already wanted to do this.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
So then all of a sudden, Kenya starts doing a
fucking speech britt the moment photo. I don't know if
the photos came whatever. Brittany actually leave, britt. I don't
know why keep calling our Brittany. She's never said it
was Brittany. So so britt leaves. Kenya has three rounds
of like blown up photos. Who printed those on like

(14:16):
foam core.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
We're talking like you're trying to get extra credit for
the high school presentation. Foam core photos printed that Bravo
has blurred out, like we can't even see these photos.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
And one is of this woman sucking a dick.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
But what people have said was like, but if it's
on the internet, then like who cares if it's public
and you show it, and I'm like I was before
I watched it, I go, okay, maybe like if you
did poor that's not I thought, like Cynthia Pore, everyone left.
The vibe shifted. She did a terrible call. She got

(14:53):
everybody's attention.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
It wasn't like she was just like girls, look at
this stuff that I found of her on the internet.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
This is the girl it's coming for me, she blew it.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Oh stop the grand opening of this salon that matters
to her, which I feel like, you're also that's like
they're always talking about being classy and versus trashy, and
I'm like, girl, don't do this at your thing. But
how many fights on the Real Housewives franchises have there
been where there's stuff that's like but it's on the blog?
So who cares if I talk about it? And they're like,
it's different when you bring it to a national stage,

(15:24):
when you bring it to a television show, you know, Like,
I think it's very different. And there's photos of her
sucking dick on the internet. I would have never seen those, like,
I'm not looking for those.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
It was nonconsensual.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
She took these explicit photos and the reaction of her
co stars is what's very telling. But should she have
been fired? Like is that worse than physically assaulting people?
Pulling post what we've seen before, beating the shit like
fully going to prison for defrauding people? Like I don't
know what what what are the rules? Because was she

(15:56):
fired that day or did they edit her out from
the rest, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
I have no idea I remember hearing about this when
it like happened like through you know, blogs or whatever
and instagrams, but I don't remember.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
I don't know what the timeline was.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
But literally, I think that they might be thinking about
the premeditation of it. A ponytail poll when you've been
drinking for hours and you're fighting with each other, and
that's kind of like a little bit of the premise
of the show is that there's all these interpersonal dynamics
that's one thing, researching and blowing up and calling attention.

(16:29):
Like they might think, oh, well, she like fully premeditated this.
This wasn't something she did off the cuff, like in
a moment of passion.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
You know.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
I'm just I mean, like we separated for crimes. You know,
there's no she was She didn't take the apology.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
She just wanted to do it and there was nothing
stopping her and she felt in the right and she
went too dirty and too low. Yeah, I can't believe
she like fucked up her legacy for this off for
this new girl.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
But I hate when the new girls come in too
strong too.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
I do too, But it's like they be like it
was barely I don't even know what started it?

Speaker 3 (16:59):
Was it asking about the wedding ring? I don't even
know what started it?

Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah it was, and maybe she was being like a
little not not friendly, but like Britches was so like Bob,
Like I think she was coming from the lens of
like Kenya, this is Kenya, Like wasn't seeing her as
who she was?

Speaker 3 (17:16):
Yeah, and then but she fed into it.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
But again also I think those girls want to get
into a fight quick so that you know they've got
something going on on the show, you know.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
So yeah, I can't wait to talk to my friends.
Soon before it came out, we're like, whatever, the photo's
already out, because once you see it, it's like pretty uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
It's really uncomfortable, Like people are leaving in droves like it,
and every confessional is like, girl, what are you doing?
But do you want to talk about, uh, the finale
of White Loaded.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, let's do White Lotus and then we'll get right
into SVU, right, Okay.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
So.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
Spoilers coming.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
Okay, We're just gonna talk about the finale of White
Lotus if you want to press fast forward.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
But you know what, like last season when people were like, oh,
but this is that Mike White was like, yeah, it's
pretty obvious what was going down, Like I made it
clear these were like people trying to kill you know.
He's like, yeah, I don't know why people are like, oh,
it's a mysteries, like I make it so obvious, and
because I think that's one of the things the complaints

(18:23):
was like, ah obvious, and it's like yeah, I don't
think he's like shut up.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
He also went on Howard start.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
He's like, I guess people don't like this one as much,
like really self aware. I'm like obsessed with Mike White,
but I liked it. I'm sad I want more. I
would watch the show for twenty eight episodes every year
for eight years, Like I don't know. I say, I'm
sad it's done. I hope we get more, and I
think there is I read somewhere there's a four. I mean,

(18:51):
it would be crazy if they did it. Yeah, but
I heard it's not going to be a beach. So
I actually watched like a reel that was like where
should they go next time? Like oh, like I slimd
or like they have to have a four seasons, Like
there's a lot of stuff. So they were saying like
a safari type thing. There's Paris, there's like a Swiss
that like a skiing.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
Thing, a skie or something. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, so I mean cool, I will follow him anywhere.
I'm like obsessed. Yeah yeah, No.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
I loved the season. I thought that it was really dark.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
It was like really ominous, like more so than past seasons.
Like but yeah, the end was like wild, Like it
was really just about how people like make all these
different choices that are you know, not who you.

Speaker 3 (19:36):
I don't know you.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
There were people that I was like, oh, I didn't
want to think that's like who you were, but like
it does people do make choices kind of based on
Lenny and all kinds of like guy talk.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
Like Belinda, you know, like.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Because at the end of the day, Greg didn't kill Tanya.
Yeah he didn't do it. So it's like at the
end of the day, it's like murder.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
Why why the fuck was I so scared of carry
the shiny.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Shady And maybe he would have and he didn't, like
like I don't think he's a great guy, but or
it's like.

Speaker 3 (20:08):
He knew they were they were divorcing.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
He knew that they were like getting they were leaving
each other, right, weren't they breaking up and he still
took all the money.

Speaker 3 (20:16):
Maybe that's what's bad about him. I don't know, but
that's there.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
You know.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
She's like, this is hush murder money and it's not. Yeah,
and Aria is an alibi to be honest, he was
at the hotel.

Speaker 3 (20:26):
I forgot where he was.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
But yeah, yeah, yeah, Like I can't believe it's even
like a mystery. Didn't they find all the other gays
that were trying to murder her, like in the boat?

Speaker 2 (20:36):
Well, oh, you know what, it might be unsolved. We
just saw what happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, like
it could be we yeah, the cops could have not solved.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
But you're right in terms of like in terms of
the like moral conundrum of it. We know what happened.
So I don't know why I'm even mad at Belinda.
I was like, Belinda sold out for the money. It's like, no,
she didn't, she didn't.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
It's also fine, what what she needs to be murdered
to have ethics?

Speaker 3 (21:02):
Go fuck yourself.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
But also I I don't like that they're trying to
make it seem like she's doing a poor chai, which
Tanya did to her it's like so different.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
It's so annoying. I hate this. Yes, it's like such
a trick. It's so annoying, and maybe it's a tinger,
you know, it's like a thought, and I'm happy to
have a discussion. But it's not the same. And I'm
annoyed actually that people think it is. It's not the same.
She turned into Tanya. This guy fucked her then brought
up starting a business.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, one day they hoped up on and she didn't
seem like she was into the idea even when he
first brought it up. And I don't even think he
knows she has all this money, so it's not like
it's like the power balance. Even though the power balance
is that we know it's there, it's not there for him.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
So it's different.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
No.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
I love what her son was like the spot and
she goes, can I just be rich for what a minute?
Five minutes? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (21:53):
Like sother fucker. But I love Zion.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
I also love the moment of if that therapist just
talking like why couldn't she see that Greg was in crisis?
That that Rick Rick? Yeah, why couldn't she see that
Rick was in crisis?

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Like I don't know, would you be like, Zion, can
you just give me like ten this man? Yeah, it's crazed.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, and like yeah, right, exactly did you know that
there was a cut scene where Piper and Zion hook up.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
Yeah, I'm pissed. Yeah, I want more, That's what I mean.
Why is an eight? Give me more? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (22:25):
All the discussions, all the interviews are like, cause Carrie
Coon did an interview that like so much was cut,
that they had so much dialogue that was cut, and
like there's all this stuff, and so to.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
Me, I'm like, who is HBO? Could we just give
us twelve episodes?

Speaker 2 (22:39):
Why?

Speaker 3 (22:39):
What's with the lippets? I don't get it. I don't you.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
Guys were there for six months making this show, like
give us ten, you know, like we could do ten.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
I just don't get why you have to cut it
like we're in, we are in, so like, yeah, I don't.
I also love the end that the like the Russian
dudes are right away with new women.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
Yeah, and guess it's like that they just do this
all the time.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
I really loved and I loved I don't like that
they soul from the thing, but I like that he
didn't want to tell on them.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't like I will say
I didn't really love how the three women's storyline ended up,
Like I didn't. I didn't think that Like I thought
that there was gonna be a more honest, like reckoning
in their friendship of like how they all feel about
each other, which the penultimate episode kind of attempted and

(23:32):
didn't really do.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
And then the whole point though, is that they're just
gonna all keep faking it forever.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
No, they had this, They're gonna have this great last night, drunk,
fun night, and they're gonna remember these good memories and
then they'll see each other next year.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
I don't know Mary Coon I thought her speech.

Speaker 3 (23:51):
I was confused by the speech. I was like, these.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
Women make you sad when you're with them, you feel
sad about your life. I don't understand why that why
you're just happy to be at the table, Like I thought,
Carrie Coon's character was the most relatable character, was the
most interesting character, and of the three of them, and
she that was.

Speaker 3 (24:09):
My big issue with Vulture this year.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
All the recaps were like carry Kon's character is a
fucking loser. It was like crazy they're like ugh, and
she acted not and I'm like I always scroll through
those comments and the people were with me of like, yeah,
your take is actually really wrong, and Kate's like a mediac.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, like I liked what she was saying about. It's like, yeah,
like we're just gonna gloss over the fact that Jacqueline
absolutely did that on purpose to fucking spite you, Like
she absolutely did the Valentine thing on purpose, like she did.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
Kate is a full religious.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
Trumper now, and you're going to gonna gloss over that,
you know what I mean. And it's like that her
superpower is her vulnerability, and in her vulnerability, she's just
like I'm just like so happy to be able to
even hang out with you guys. It's like what I loved,
Like this the part I totally got, the part about
like what is my religion? And it's not my business,
it's not my daughter or child. Again, apparently there was

(25:04):
much more fleshed out about her life at home that
we don't know about. It wasn't marriage, so what is
my thing? And I'm like, I don't know. You seem
like the most vulnerable of all of them, the most
willing to try new things the most like honest of
all of them, you have a lot of great qualities.
I don't know why you're like, I'm glad you're pretty
and that you have a perfect life, and I'm just
glad I'm at the table.

Speaker 3 (25:24):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
I didn't like get the end of the and some
people are like loving that I don't relate to.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
I liked the speech because she's such a good actress,
you know, like this girl was feeling it. And you know,
I haven't mentioned Daniel Bayer Jackson for a while friendship expert,
but her big thing is like you know, we we
really like idolize or like think highly of long term
friendships or relationships, but like time doesn't mean they're functional

(25:50):
or positive or non toxic, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (25:53):
Like, right, you.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Could be friends from someone from high school or grade
school for forty years and never change same patterns do
all this fucked up shit? And I think that's what
this is showing, Like even when we were like married
fifty years and it's like, okay, but how long have
they lived in different wings of the house, Like what
are we actually celebrating here? And so I think this
was a more realistic showing and how people don't change

(26:14):
in like how to her time. Time is what she
has with these women and that's not nothing. And so
I got that where it's like it doesn't mean it's positive,
but I feel it's realistic. And I think, how many
women because I follow this Chelsea Fagan she started the
financial I used to read her articles on Thought Catalog
and she did a real and she was just like,
if you're relating to this and thinking.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
Like, oh, reminds me of my friends, Like do not
be friends?

Speaker 1 (26:37):
Like that is not right, that's not being Carrion was
gonna be like that your president saying like you should
not want your friends, like you shouldn' want to even
talk about your friends like that or to do those
things like it's all psychotic.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
But I think it's I think it's real.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
I also think he took inspiration from the Real Housewives
to create these women, and that is a real housewife
trope of FLI conflict, conflict, toxic, toxic. And then they
have one drunk night and they're topless in the pool
in Turks and caicos and their friends again and they
cry and hug at the reunion.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
It's like very housewives.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
I think it's really realistic, and I think I think
people were more into it, and even I was and
teared up because it's her performance.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
I agree, she's a great actress.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
I just thought, like the character like this woman, Like
I thought she was going to be like make a change.
Like I just thought she was going to be like
I love that, I love you guys, but like this
is my last trip with you, like or something like that,
Like I can't just keep being on these trips with
you where I feel like shit the entire time, you know,

(27:42):
Like I you know, I thought that that was going
to be her character led me to believe that there
was going to be a different outcome, and I guess
I was a little bit disappointed. Obviously all were killer
like Leslie bay Aboud, watch what happens?

Speaker 2 (27:55):
She was saying. He and he asked, like do you
think these women? Do you think Kate likes these women?
And she goes, yeah, it's like all she has Like
to her, it's this real friendship, like she does love them,
you know, And I feel like that might be somebody
that's real. But like that trip wasn't fun. I am
glad she at least said she was sad during the

(28:16):
trip because the other two saying, well, how much fun
they had them like, their trip looks like the least
fun they had that one like like Leslie Bibb.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
To me, seems like the kind of person her character,
not her. Kate seems like the kind of person that
is friends with Jacqueline cacause she's famous and is friends
with Carrie Kuon because it makes her feel better about
her life. Like, not that she loves them and that
loves spending time with them. They have completely different ideals
from her. They have completely different philosophies. She doesn't really
like going out and partying and doing like the fun
stuff that even when they were having fun, she was

(28:45):
barely having fun, you know, like I don't know that.
To me, she seems like, well, I gotta go on
this trip to like maintain.

Speaker 3 (28:52):
Because I think she laughs depth.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, I don't think it's as calculated as you're making
it seem. I think she just lacks depth or like
she doesn't know herself. She doesn't go deep with herself,
so why would she go deep with others?

Speaker 3 (29:06):
She doesn't.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Wait, I don't think that she's a surface. I don't
think she would say the things I'm saying. I think
those are the reasons, though, like I don't think she
would say it out loud and be like, well, I'm
friends with this girl because she's an actor. But I
think ultimately that is why she likes hanging out with
Carrie Koon and Jacqueline.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
The other thing the internet said, I don't really care,
but what they wanted more of the interaction between Parker
Posey and like Leslie Bibb in that first episode or
second episode at the breakfast table.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
So you've obviously been all over the internet, so maybe
you've heard this, but there's there's this theory that Parker
Posey knows the entire time, She knows about the money
and all that shit the entire time, and she's already
moved money to the Caymans because I guess she brings
up the Caymans a couple of times, and you know,
the Caymans is where people like launder their money because
you can't like get it, you can't can't get touched.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
By the US.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
And that one of the reasons why, Because to me,
Parker Posey is the kind of person that even if
she didn't remember Leslie Bibb's character. She would have gone, oh,
it's great to see you, you know, like she would
have still done a little high high high. I mean,
she's out here partying on boats with guys she thinks
are disgusting old men, married to two young women. She's
not exactly like too good for certain people in this

(30:17):
like on this trip, but she won't give Leslie bib
the time of day. And I think it's because she's like,
I don't want people to know, like.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
Where we are. That's this a theory.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
This is a theory that she doesn't like getting recognized
because she doesn't want anyone to clock where she is
because they've already moved money and she's you know, it's.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
A good theory. Yeah, it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
I just wonder how if she could have hit it
like that for so long.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
I mean, I mean people want bin off. She's sociopathic, Like, yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
The next thing needs to be she's like her, I
need her post the blow up of what happens. But
oh my gosh. Anyway, let's start right. Okay, We've got
a great episode for you guys today. As usual, you
can go to That's Messed Up Live for some of
our merch that's on sale.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
Our coupon codes.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
You can go to Lisa's website that takes her to
all of her tour dates and YadA YadA.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
Let's get going.

Speaker 2 (31:18):
Okay, we will be doing a brief interlude today which
kind of sounds like a song, but it's not. It's
a nightmare. Season fourteen, well it actually starts with some music.

Speaker 3 (31:30):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
Season fourteen, episode twenty three, Michael Jordan. We're at a concert.
Violin violins and weird shaped guitars, so it's very google bardello,
fun funky folk vibes.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
I was googling it to see if it was them, Like,
I was like, this has to be them, but it's not.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
But I thought it was. Yeah, they have more funky.
There's like an old man there in the band, wildly
bellied dancers. In the bathroom, a woman's putting on lipstick
and then another woman is kissing her, gives her a
pill and she's like, oh my god, another one, but
she takes it. The concert is kicking up, but never mind,

(32:07):
it's actually intermission. He will be right back this like,
you know, this weird shape guitar guy and he tells
the DJ to keep the party going. The lead singer's
in a striped buttoned down, unbuttoned really giving the boy
in the stripe pajamas and a boiler rim hat, and
he's approaching this girl who knows him, you know. She's like, oh,

(32:28):
it's Santiago and and then he says like, oh, we're
always recording. She wants a copy of this concert. She's
kissing the singer on the dance floor. They're dancing. The
woman from the bathroom joins in and it's like a
sexy three way style dance, but she it's actually too
much and she wants to go so and she exits

(32:48):
the venue. She's shivering. It's nighttime, she's cold, but yeah,
so she left. They were kind of bummed and they're
a horny, but they didn't follow her. And then it
cuts to the daytime and there's a Lulu Lemon mom ass,
like a real close up of an ass. It's really wild,
and she has like a ponytail through the back cutout
of her baseball cap. She has a stroller and she's

(33:09):
looking for something. She hits up a bridge and she
sees two teen guys fiddling with a dead or pasted
out woman. But a woman not moving from the night before,
and you know, we assume it's the woman.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
It's a little boat.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
She's in a little rowboat, and the mom calls the cops.
Benson arrives in a blue trench and straight hair, and
Tomorrow is there with a tie and information.

Speaker 3 (33:33):
The boat.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
It's a white Jane Doe, torn clothing, non responsive but alive,
thank god. Blunt forces, trauma to the head, bite marks
on breasts disgusting, and then unfortunately we have bruised thighs,
scrapes on knees, no wallet, no phone, no jewelry, just
a rowboat outside Gracie mansion.

Speaker 3 (33:51):
And we learned later that's like where the mayor lives.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
So interesting when we got to find out who she
is and where she floated from.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
So the credits begin. Craigan's on the case.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
He's like, my ears are ringing, Gray c manson, we
need to move fast. We got to find these two
teens that were digging in her pockets. So we're going
we have to talk to the jogger mom. We have
a classic trench rollins bench and a scrunched up face
fin and then Mom is like, oh, those boys wouldn't
have attacked her. And Ronind's goes those boys you know them,

(34:22):
and she goes, well, no, but I see them. I
mean I sort of know them. Okay, bitch, it's like
you're covering for something. There's a dead woman kident out
really but like, let's go. She's like, well, my husband
will kill me, and Rollins says like, are you fucking
these teens? And she's like, no, no, no, no. I
was there to meet one of the boys, Jasper, to
buy pills. I just buy pills off the teen adderall.
She meets him before and after school, but now she

(34:43):
has to leave to go to baby yoga, and Finn
is like, you're not going to baby yoga, Okay, you're
staying right here. Omaro is back with Benson and Craigan
and he's like, you know, I mean dressed like that,
it could be a working girl, and Benson responds, you
should get out more. Everyone dresses like that. So yeah,
I like that. She put him in his place slutshaming.
But we got to go to the hospital for when

(35:04):
she wakes up, we see her tube in the neck.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
It's a lot not good.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Her princes aren't in the system, and nobody with her
description has been reported missing in the last forty eight hours.

Speaker 3 (35:14):
Warner arrives.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
She says it's for sure a sexual assault, and Omar
I was like, wow, okay, Warner's working fast, and Benson's like, yeah,
there's a half naked woman. So she washed up in
the Mayor's mansion. Everyone's working a little bit fast. Melinda's
in a suit, which I don't know. I just need
her in a morg outfit. I really don't like her
outside the morgue. It makes me uncomfortable. And she had
a pop like a lip color. I wonder if she

(35:37):
came from court, you know what I mean. It seems
like she was doing something else and was brought to
immediately do this case. But no good news from her,
you know, coma. The pressure from the head wound is increasing.
She was hit with a wooden object. There were splinters
in her head. There's no sign of chronic drug use,
but she did have MDMA and liquor in her system,

(35:57):
so she could have been partying or drugged or something else.
We you know, we have to do some investigative work.
Melinda adds that she has stainless steel stitching for an
old hernia, and that's not common in the us, so
she has to be from somewhere else and Amaro's like
third world and she's like, no, she has a dentistry done,
so it's first world. So just specifics there, I don't know, okay,

(36:21):
And she goes in one more thing. She's at least
had two children, and so we got to find her
next of kids. She's like, you guys need to get moving.
It's a big center precinct meeting. They have nothing. It's
been eight hours and nothing, but it's about to be
three pm, which means school's letting out, So let's find
these pill teens. We have leggings mom with Finn watching

(36:42):
from afar and Rollins is posing as another mom and she,
you know, she finds a way to flirt with these
teens and is desperate for drugs.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
This is so of the time.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
I feel like Desperate Housewives did, like a whole storyline
about how.

Speaker 3 (36:57):
What's her fucking name?

Speaker 1 (36:58):
The actress who the city Huffman, Felicity Huffman's character like
is abusing her children's adderall and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
This just feels very of this exact time period. So
I've never.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
Watched the show, but for some reason, my YouTube shorts.
Algorithm is just clips from house Gray's Anatomy, other medical shows,
nine shows. I've never seen any actor from and Desperate
House Desperate Housewives, And my question is it's only mostly
Able Longoria. But it was her character just out of

(37:28):
her mind. She was just like shopping and crazy and just.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Like like a complete cartoon character person. Yeah, like cheating
on her husband from the minute it started, but then
like yeah, also spending his money crazy, Like yeah, she's
a full cartoon character person. But I think it's like
going off the algorithm that you like Housewives, so you
might like Desperate Like you know, you might like Dust,
Women who Kill or Why Women Kale shows up like

(37:52):
and then you watch SVU, so you might like nine
one one and all these other like procedurals. I guess
maybe speaking of medical dramas, everybody is telling me that
the Pit. Everybody loves the Pit. I gotta watch the Pit. Well,
you know, you are issuing the pit though for I
heard it's a different concept though, Like the concept of

(38:14):
the pit, which I didn't know is that it's it's
twenty four hours or twelve hours in an ear, but
like it's it's so it's like more like the show
twenty four but in an er you know, yeah you can't.
Yeah yeah, I mean it's like you because they have
Noah Wyley. Again, I don't know, I don't know what
the lawsuit's about, but I love how in this scene.
Also in this episode, like they just put Rollins in

(38:35):
the exact same outfit as the woman that was adderall shopping,
Like they just have her in like same, like she's
in like a Yankee hat.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
But that's what it's like. I had.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
I brought a friend to soul cycle and they were like,
oh my god, everyone looks the same.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
I got yeah, yeah, yeah, it's in Lulru's but whatever.

Speaker 2 (38:53):
Rollin's arrests Jasper immediately. The other one tries to run
and Finn runs right into him and where it's me
room bars. Quickly, Finn and Rollins are with gray Hoodie,
which is non Jasper, and he's like, no, it's not drugs,
it's prescription, and they're like, babe, it's a controlled substance.
Like we're not blaming semantics here, we're in cement room bars.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
This is serious.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
He blames Jasper for everything we cut tomorrow and Benson
with him and he puts this all on Todd and
you know, and then he goes old money. So this guy,
I guess is old money. And Benson's like, oh, so
you just do whatever the rich boy says. And he
told you to rape the woman and he's no, no, no,
no no. We saw him floating. Todd wanted to check
her pockets, so I don't know, there must be making

(39:36):
a comment about old money and picking for pockets, like
you're rich, what are you doing? You're old money? Like
why are you checking a body?

Speaker 3 (39:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (39:45):
So we cut Yeah, why would you go to a
boy I just can't even imagine. I can't understand this
at all, rich or not rich? Why are you diddling
with a dead person brant or breathing slowly?

Speaker 3 (39:58):
So whatever?

Speaker 2 (39:58):
We cut to the white boy rich and he's like,
do I look like a drug dealer? Because Jasper's black,
So he's doing that now. So he's a terrible friend
on top of all of this. And fing goes, no,
but you do look like a fucking rapist, and he
gets nervous and he's like, whatever, I just wanted to
go through her pocket, so I'm a good guy. And
he took lipstick and loose change and he was gonna

(40:19):
give it to his mother, Like, what the fuck is
going on with this guy? Whatever, But they did find
a key card for a hotel. Okay, we got somewhere,
so we're going to the Times Square Motor Lodge.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
We go to the room.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
The hotel manager is nervous and annoying and asking questions.
This actor did a great job, but like he's just
concerned about the wrong things and he's annoying the shit
out of Benson, and they're like, go get the security
footage and phone logs, you dumb bitch. And they go
into the room. Amaro and Benson enter. They're like, this
place is a mess. This must have been ransacked. But
I'm like, this is how I live my life in

(40:50):
hotels too. I was like, this looks totally normal, honestly.
But then I do see that the lamp is knocked over,
so that does give a ransack clue. They put their
gloves on, they're ready to work. She's been shopping, they're
sexy clothing. There was all this cash left, but not
a robbery. Canadian passport is in the hotel safe. Her

(41:10):
name is Ariel Randolph and she came to the country
four days ago. There is a tablet power cord and
an iPhone charger, but no phone and no calls from
the landline. So they're at an office computer going through
her online activity and Benson's annoyed at this hotel manager
trying to meddle and she screams it here, get out
of here now. Little guy in the suit runs out

(41:31):
and they're in the eye class whatever.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
They're doing fake stuff.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
They're saying MP three's this is definitely a season fourteen.
But they're going through her photos and Facebook. There's music
tagged places. They also find the security frontage and someone
five hours after she was found was in there, but
he's dressed for surveillance cameras, so he's fully hidden and
he knew how to hide. But she did do video
chats twice a day to the same numbers, so they

(41:56):
call the number and uh oh, like a Sun answers
and he's like, where's my mom And she introduces herself
and then another smaller boy pops on the screen and
Amaro and Benson are sad this is happening. So it's
Ariel Randolph, thirty two from Edmonton. I have performed in
them all there a few times she's a music blogger
and podcast host. Okay, and the husband is Matt Randolph,

(42:19):
fifty five, local celebrity in Western Canada, so kind of
a thrill. He's the host of a TV show called
Canadian Days and Nights. They have two sons, Wayne and Grant,
ten and twelve, and she's a married mother of two.
What was she doing alone in the city, Craigan asks,
like so backwards, like a woman can't take a trip,

(42:40):
and Finn says, I guess, I guess it wasn't socially
acceptable in twenty fourteen to take a trip. Finn says
she was here to do podcasts. It was the Karen
Avasi whatever, I don't give a fuck World Music Festival.
She has dozens of MP threes of different bands that
were all at the fest, and they heard from her
the morning before she went missing. She was gonna pack

(43:02):
and edit her podcast, but instead she decided to go out.
Her husband seemed out of the dark about her party
life and is confused because she's like a pta person
and loves crafts. Finn goes, well, she's into something more
than fiddles and accordions. Amara's like the hotel manager said,
she got two keys, Like, that's a clue. That's like

(43:24):
when they find why classes, I'm like, I always get
too because if I lose one or I leave what, like,
what are we talking about? Rollins is looking through the
phone records and multiple calls to several different phone numbers,
So we're gonna track the numbers. Kragan's like, her family
arrives in six hours, and I want to have answers
for them. So we go to the home of Phil
d'sapio in Brooklyn. He's holding a box and you know,

(43:45):
she called this man multiple times and he's editing her
podcast and he's like shocked at what happened. He has
a girlfriend, everything was professional. He's like, I don't think
she like came to town to hook up with a sound engineer.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
And he can't, Casey, I thought of you, And he
can't really like pinpoint where exactly he was he or
where anyone was He's like, there's a couple dozen shows
in the city, back to back.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
It's a whole worldwide festival. It could be anybody. He says,
I don't mean to seem rude, but she seemed like
a groupie in search of a group. So now we're
suddenly at PS twenty seven in a school talking to
a principal guy and he's like, yeah, another parent gave
him the number to me. She had a lot of questions.
She was thinking about moving here and putting her sons
at the school. Finn and Rollins dropped that she is

(44:30):
in a Koma now and the guy puts it all
together with the Gracie mansion case he saw on the
news and he is shocked it's her as well.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
He's like that, we've met. She seemed sweet.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
He knows nothing else except that she worked for music
and didn't even tell him why she was thinking of
a movie. She she just but she did only talk
about her sons, not her husband, not once. So Amorrow
meets with Benson in the morgue like fuck, we are
zero and five. No one knew what she was up to,
and Melinda walks in with some science. So the DNA

(44:59):
match does it match the teens, which duh, we didn't
think they like bit her breasts and there's no semen
but saliva and then the bite marks for one male,
then more saliva from another male on her neck, and
then DNA under her fingernails from a third male. So
this night is getting worse and worse. Three assailants or
is some of it party saliva. You know she did

(45:19):
come to New York City to party party saliva.

Speaker 3 (45:23):
Hugely possible.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
Yeah, so you know, from the outfits to the plans,
she wants to you know, have a good time.

Speaker 3 (45:29):
But Ring Ring.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
The family's on the way to the hospital. They have
to go talk to the husband. So Benson and Tomorrow
meet the family in the hallway. The boys are sweet,
and the dad we actually know it's actor Richard Thomas
who was in the episode Scorge Scourge. Yeah, he had
syphilis brain raw and been working since the Waltons and so,

(45:50):
and now he's here. The boys go to see their
mother and Benson holds the husband back and explains, like,
just heads up, she's very badly her but they want
to go. Everyone wants to go. So they go into
the room and everyone is shocked because you know, it's
it's tough and it's an emotional moment for the family,
and they try talking to her.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
The little boy as a bowl cut.

Speaker 2 (46:11):
Benson feels for everybody, and now we're in the cafeteria
has been in Tomorrow. It's a dire situation. The brain
pressure the rape. It's all a lot, and Amaro's like, well,
you know, does she know anyone here?

Speaker 3 (46:21):
Was she in contact?

Speaker 2 (46:22):
And He's like you don't you think it's someone she knows,
like to me, not a stranger, Like I can't imagine that.
And Amaro's like, well, did you know what she was
doing here? Any details? He's like, no, she was just
gonna go to concerts. And every time we video conference,
we mostly talked about the boys. Omaros asks if they
were on good terms and he hesitates, but then he
does answer yes, and he's like, well, this is what

(46:44):
she called an adventure. She wanted to go on an
adventure and it's her first adventure. And then tomorrow like
such a patriarchy. Bro as like and you were okay
with that? And he's like no, to be honest, I
wasn't thrilled. But the boys are older and Ariel gave
up a lot on her dreams to start a family,
so this was important to her in her career. Benson
and Rollins are the stuffed animals in the gift shop
with the boys, and Rollins talks to the little boy

(47:06):
and Benson is grilling the older boy. JK is just
like talking about the trip, and the boy said she
wanted them to see the world, and that he that
she had mentioned moving to New York and wanted to
give him a life that was more fun than the
one she had and to meet different types of people.
And then he picks up like a New York post
what do they call it, the ledger of the New
York Ledger Ledger, Yeah, and the headline is about his

(47:27):
mom and it says coma vic partied hard devastating.

Speaker 3 (47:31):
He's like, is this true?

Speaker 2 (47:32):
And Benson's like, they're just trying to sell papers, like
you know who your mom is, don't let anyone fuck
with you. And oh my god, who do we see
at the hospital gift shop? The sound engineer, So you
know he's startled by seeing the detectives.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
Can I just say the sound engineer's name is Phil
Disapio And did that sound familiar to you at all?
Because Kim Rollin's lawyer is named Lorenzo D'sapio.

Speaker 3 (47:55):
Oh my god, And.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
I looked it up and it's the same last name,
just there's an extra he and Lorenzo D'sapio, And I'm like,
why are you using the name D'sapio? Twice in the
same season, like is there something, is there some dysapio,
Like you gotta get that name in Like it's just
because they say the guy's name a bunch of times,
like Rollins keeps, I mean live keeps being like phill

(48:18):
Dasapio and it's like I because I always remember it
because Kim was always like, well, mister D'sapio says I
could do this, you know, like she's always she starts
fucking dating him, you know, she's like a little Casey Anthony.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Yeah, damn, I did not catch that. That's really funny.
It's just a wild last name, like it's not like
it's Smith.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
Anyway.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
I wonder if it was like an inside joke in
the writer's room, like a shout out to some baby
being born or something like I wonder or some twins
because that I didn't realize.

Speaker 3 (48:47):
Same season.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
Yeah, but anyways, the sound engineer wanted to see Ariel.
He has flowers, nobody likes him, no one likes his energy.
Rollins goes family only and so the hands off the flowers.
He's not gonna fight this, and he leaves Amorrow's with
the dad who's like, she does not dress like this
in Canada, you know, like she got these clothes here

(49:08):
and the husband saying I'm down with all this. And
finally Amorro's like, well, we saw the emails and we
knew you were upset. So and he goes, I know,
I just didn't want to sound like a jealous old man.
And Amorro's like, no, I get it. I'm a jealous
guy too, and he goes, and I'm an old man,
so it all makes sense. But yeah, when you marry
someone older, that is what they don't tell you. That's
what they don't tell you. You will have to take
care of an old person. And you're not old. You

(49:31):
want to keep going out and they don't have energy.
So yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
She's thirty two, like she has like a one of
those kids is like ten, I think, so like she
started early, Like this guy got her young way.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
He's like famous, but a celebrity in Edmonton. You know,
what are you gonna do?

Speaker 1 (49:46):
Blinded by the glitz and glamour of Western Canada.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah, Like I saw a TikTok that some people it's
like called a hospice wife. Like once dudes hit fifty something,
they're like, oh, I need to go find someone to take.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
Care of me. Oh yeah, dangerous. Don't do it. Don't
do it.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
That's like the last episode of White Loveists where she's like,
I can get you a different man. Why are you
with him? I know, I mean perker Posy is so
good and funny. I like right now people that questioned
her accent, like people in North Carolina are giving postits
of the sayings to people they know, and they sound

(50:23):
exactly like they gnaw me.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
Yeah, like they do sound wild down there.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
I also liked her like we need Jesus to help
her from Buddhism, and it's like, in the name of
Jesus has done worse things for our planet and humanity
than I don't. I haven't heard of one Buddhist bad time. Yeah,
I really are Buddhists out there starting wars.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Note for more Land, they're not. They're not because it's
no violence. It's not don't commit violence in the name
of Buddha. You're not supposed to commit violence in the
name of Jesus either, but no one listens to that.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
You know, Okay, we're back. She married an old man.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
He's like, you know, she should have friends her own
age and he's like, Okay, do you know any of them?
And he starts going through photos and he does recognize
one of the musicians in the photos. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
he came to Edmonton last year. She went to the concert.
We go to Santiago morales Is Loft. It's very artsy.
We're in Queen's Rollin's and Finn are on the case.

(51:18):
Knock knock, shirtless guy opens the door. He doesn't want
to let them in, and Finn is just like, we
don't care that it smells like weed.

Speaker 3 (51:25):
Let us in. So they're in red walls.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
There's drums and he's like, yeah, she interviewed me for
something and then came to one of my shows.

Speaker 3 (51:33):
That's it. And there's another knock on the door.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
Finn opens it and it's the woman from the concert
that from the start of the episode. Then Rollins removes
the wig and it's actually mister Landry from PS. Twenty seven,
so wow. And then Finn goes small world.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
This is like a wild reveal because like, yeah, I
saw the woman in the beginning, like dancing, I saw
them walk in and go are you ready to go?
I didn't even I didn't clock that it was the
guy from PS twenty seven. I mean, I didn't meet
him in real life, Rollins did, but she like just
grabs that that wig snatch is wild.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Yeah, it's like a really good twist. And he's like,
it's not what you think and Finn's like, yeah, I
got that.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
I couldn't have thought this up.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
So there's a stare off, there's tense music, and we're
at corkboard time. So Santiago has Ariel's iPad in the
loft with the photos from that night and he's like, well,
she loaned it to me, which no one believes, and
that makes absolutely no sense. And Craigan's trying to push
this crime on the father and Omar was like, Craigan,
you need to sit down and take a break because

(52:41):
he was in Canada the whole time and he's holding.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
On by a thread. Okay, So who is this Charles
Landry guy? You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (52:48):
They say he's married straight, but like s the party
in women's clothes and the DNA is a match to
the saliva found on the neck, which we know because
we saw them, you know, him kissing the neck earlier
in the show. We saw them getting close okay. So
Finn and Tomorrow are with the musician guy and he's like, listen,
I went to get the iPad because once I saw
the story on the news, I couldn't let these photos

(53:08):
get out for Charlie's sake. They are cousins. He has
a wife and a daughter and okay, so cousins that
do what. And he's like, listen, we've been doing this
since we were kids. And they're like okay. So he
had a concert that night in Astoria and then they
they show the crime photos. He's like, I had nothing
to do with that. She left before we did, and
Omar I was like, well, she was having so much fun,

(53:30):
why did she leave? And he's like, yeah, she panicks.
You know, she found out about Charlie. But we didn't
see her find out about Charlie.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
Yeah, it seemed like she was just like Okay, I think,
like hooking up with two people on her dance floors
maybe too much for me.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
And I'm like a mom of two and I'm married,
and she just.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
Like left, you know, yeah, we need proof she left
without you. And he's like, oh, well, we got another girl.
And so they found another girl quick. Her name's Gabriella.
Then they say that they went back to her place,
and he's like, if my school or wife find out
about the Yeah, they're doing like the back and forth
between musician guy and you know Charlie.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
So they're going back to two cousins just meet women
and hook up with them together.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
Interesting while one of them's in women's closed.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
Yeah, yeah, it is weird, and I like the they're
really like brushing over the cousins of it all, like yeah,
as it being more normal than it is. But Charlie's like,
if my school or wife find out my life is
over and rollins and Benson like, okay, well, then be
honest with us. He's like, okay, well we all met
at the FOD lounge and he also has the same
iPad story of like we needed those photos.

Speaker 3 (54:33):
He is shocked about the brain bashing.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
He swear, he swears he didn't do this, and he's like,
maybe we pushed her too much and out of her
comfort zone and I apologize and that sets Benson off
and she goes apologize for what and he's like, when
she realized I wasn't who I said I was, and
you know, she felt betrayed, and they let her go,
and he's like, well, I can't run in heels, because
they're like, why would you let her just run off
like that and distress and he's he can't, you know,

(54:56):
he's not that good in heels. So another team and
these guys are telling the truth. They have footage of
her leaving alone that night, right after midnight in Astoria.
So we need science to help figure out like how
she was washed ashore, and Finn has a science friend
just standing there.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
I don't know, very lucky, his rope guy. He's referenced
this man before. Oh, his rope guy, which is so funny.
And CSU calls him the renaissance man. So he has
a lot of different little skills and trades. And he
starts talking tides and I stop listening, you know, water paths.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
I don't know what to tell you.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
But we get to where she was probably dropped off
into the boat, and they searched surveillance video around there,
and there's a car following behind her and oh, I
think we know that truck. We just saw that fucking
truck and a drum roll, it's the sound engineer. So
they're like, you fucking lie to us, and you better
start talking. We're in cement room bars duh with Finn

(55:52):
and Rollins and he's like, I thought it would look
bad and it's like, yeah, picking her up at night
the night she was assaulted, for sure looks bad. If
it was just a ride, why wouldn't you just tell
us the truth? He blames his jealous girlfriend and they're like, well,
why did you go to the hospital.

Speaker 3 (56:06):
He's like, I wanted to see if she.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
Was okay, and they're like what to finish the job
and he's like, I did not hurt her. So they
bring up that they have DNA evidence from scratch marks,
and you could see he gets squirmy, and so then
they pull up his sleeves and there's scratch marks there
and they go, oh, so she fucking scratched you. He goes,
it's a misunderstanding. I was helping her. I mean, this
motherfucker's guilty. And he says, well, I just took her

(56:28):
out to a diner t e. And they're like, oh,
the location right by the rowboats, bro, And he's like, no,
I promise we just ate and he's like then, why
did she scratch you? And he sighs. He says, all
I did was try to kiss her. Then she wanted,
I mean, why is your girlfriend jealous?

Speaker 1 (56:44):
I wonder why you're a jealous girlfriend, because you're randomly
kissing girls.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
Then she wanted to go to the river, and he
tried to stop her, and she pushed him away and
scratched him and then went into the park.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
He goes, listen, there's going to be no saliva.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
She said, no, I just didn't want to go into
the park at night, and she ran off without me.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
I didn't do anything bad. And now he's invoking his rights.
He wants a lawyer, and that obviously makes you look
even worse. So they leave the room. But it is
something we should all be doing. So they have a
full team meeting and they're trying to figure out if
he did it or not. And you know, him lying
is a big red flag, but we need some more
evidence or witnesses. So they asked the husband about this man,
and all he knows from the wife is that he's

(57:20):
a good engineer. And they're still trying to piece it
all together. The boys are sleeping on the chairs and
like you know, while they chat in the hallway, and
he really can't handle much more. This husband's had a
tough day and he just wants to meet with his sons.
So we're in the hospital bed. They're just like, why
won't she wake up?

Speaker 3 (57:38):
Damn?

Speaker 2 (57:39):
And then he goes the tabloids have been so mean
and crazy about her. It's a mess. And now we
have security footage from the diner and they sat there
for over an hour meal, talking whatever, and then as
they exit the diner, there's fuck a long haired man
standing by the diner who looks like he is homeless,
and maybe it's him, but she hands him food, and

(58:00):
then we also see the truck, but we don't have
footage that we're getting back into the truck or him
at the rowboat.

Speaker 3 (58:05):
So what are we going to do next?

Speaker 2 (58:07):
So suddenly we go talk to this sex worker with
one fake leg and she's from the Steve episode of
Sex and the City if you remember her. She has
red hair and a limp, and they're asking her for
help and they're like, do you know this guy? And
she does and they're canvassing the park and there's a
different man who lives in the park and he has
this one of her scarves and.

Speaker 3 (58:27):
They're like, how you have this?

Speaker 2 (58:29):
And he goes, oh, this he helds for a different
park resident, and he's like, this guy gave it to me.
And then the homeless man from the diner turns around,
sees you know, the cops are there, throws a garbage
bag at them and starts running. They don't have a
hard time catching him. He's not moving fast and they're like,
where did you get this scarf? He goes, I didn't

(58:50):
do nothing. He has hippie beads. He's a big guy, beard,
long hair. He lives in the park because he has
nowhere else to go, and now he's in custody and
Benson goes, yeah, because he's a level three sex offender.
So Phil's story checks out. The homeless man matches the
dental records and the DNA match. There's evidence all over
his clothing. He also had her phone, purse and an
ore with her blood in his tent. So now they

(59:13):
have to tell the family that it was just I
don't know if I mean, but the husband is really upset,
but even more upset all these crazy party headlines when
it was just her being kind to the wrong stranger.
And he said she always told the boys they were
blessed and we should always take care of those who
don't have what we do. The boys run and screaming, Dad, Dad, Dad,
and they all run into the hospital room and I

(59:36):
was like, so hopeful she was going to wake up,
but sadly she is dead. I know.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
I thought it was like she was gonna blink awake,
and that's not the story.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
Yeah, So the husband thinks that she held on until
they caught the right man, and they're having a really
hard time as a family. But on her phone they
find video messages to her family.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
So it's her walking by the water. It's a late
night and it's just a video chat.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
She goes, I know it's late, I'll at two in
the morning, but everything's fresh in my brain. I just
wanted to thank you for trusting me to take this
trip on my own. She's like, you're such a good
man and good father and I was always love you,
and he smiles. He has tears in his eyes. So
there's a section for the boys, so Wayne and Grant
come in and she says, boys, I'm coming home tomorrow night.
I've had a great time, but I can't wait to

(01:00:20):
see you. And I realize being your mom is the
greatest adventure I want to have and I miss you
so much and I love you and I can't wait
to see you again. And listen to your dad good night,
sleep tight, and I'll see you in my dreams. And
the family sits at the video and Tomorrow and Benson
are crying behind them, and then that's stick.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
Well baby, I got tears. I teared up at this
end message.

Speaker 5 (01:00:41):
It was so sad, so sad, such a sad up
And guess what the sadness is going to keep on
coming because this is very much based on a real
thing that happened.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
Our podcast Sadness guaranteed.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
This episode is based pretty closely on this case that
happened in twenty thirteen, like five months before this episode
came out.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
Some news reports are calling her Sarai.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
But if I think in if it's she has a
Latin background, then it's Sarai.

Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
So I think she's Sarai.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Sierra, who was a thirty three year old mother of
two sons from Staten Island who was visiting Turkey. She
was in other parts of Europe as well, but she
was in Turkey and January of twenty thirteen by herself.
This was her first trip ever abroad, and she was
doing it to practice photography, which had become a hobby
of her. She'd also gone back to school and was

(01:01:42):
like in between, she scheduled this in between semesters. So
this is like a girl that's like, you know, out
there trying to live her dreams. Since it was her
first time out of the US. She kept in touch
with her family back home through text, video chat, always
updating them about her plans. And then she was walking
near the old city walls in Istanbul on January twenty

(01:02:03):
first when she vanished, Like the last security footage they
had of her was her like at a food court
at a mall. And then she was supposed to return
home to the US the next day, and she had
sent her family texts and photos beforehand, and had sent
her you know, I think her sister a text being
like coming home tomorrow, smiley face, like she was excited
to come home with her family. Missing persons cases in Turkey,

(01:02:27):
I guess are pretty rare, So her case was given
a lot of attention and was gaining a lot of
media attention as well, especially because she's like an American
tourist by herself, and of course much like in this episode,
the trash media, like the New York Post was posting
stuff about her having sex with a lover in a
bathroom before her disappearance. But they're like the only source

(01:02:47):
that has that, and they're definitely trying to sell newspapers,
like Olivia says in the episode, and they're there's just
like no one else was reporting that, Like no one
else was like, oh, and there's rumors that like she was,
you know, having like was there to meet a paramour
or anything like that. Only the gorgeous reporting of the
New York Post has that Turkish and American authorities worked together.

(01:03:09):
There were hundreds of investigators examining all the surveillance footage
trying to build up a timeline of her movements, but
they still didn't really have any good leads. All her belongings,
including like all her clothes, her passport, medical cards, were
found in her room in the hostel she was staying at,
and then police were even questioning a several people, including

(01:03:29):
there was a local man much like Phil DeSapio, who
said that he was supposed to meet up with Sierra
that day, but she never showed up to the meeting
they had scheduled so that might have been like where
they were like, oh, her lover, she was meeting a lover,
but it was just like this guy she was supposed
to meet up with. I think through photography it doesn't
really say why, but he was completely cleared like he
had nothing to do with anything. And then unfortunately they

(01:03:51):
did find her body, but not for two weeks February second.
This is after her husband and her brother have now
flown to Turkey to try to move the investigation alone.
Her body is found near some ancient ruins on a highway.
She's found in the same exact clothes she was seen
wearing in that food court surveillance footage the day she disappeared,
and she'd been killed by a fatal blow to the head,

(01:04:12):
much like in the episode. By March of twenty eighteen,
the Turkish authorities had identified a suspect and charged him
with Sierra's murder. His name was Zaya Tasali, aged forty six,
a local homeless man with a prior record for burglary
and weapons charges. He tried to flee to Syria when

(01:04:32):
the case started to get a ton of media attention
and international attention, but he was apprehended on the Turkish border.
He eventually told authorities that what happened was he tried
to kiss Sierra. And this is kind of where the
episode is blending the story of what happened with Phil
DeSapio and the homeless guy, because this is they both
happened with this man in the real life story. He

(01:04:53):
tried to kiss her, she resisted, and then he says,
quote a struggle broke out between the two of us.
In a statement, He also said Sierra hit him on
his nose with her phone, which bloodied his nose. Then
he knocked her down. She fought back, hit him in
the head with a rock, and then he said, quote
I got very angry and hit her back twice with
a stone. I grabbed off the floor end quote. And

(01:05:14):
then at that point she stopped moving. So the next day,
this man tasally returned to the crime scene. He actually
covered her body with blankets. He also threw her phone
and her iPad into the ocean, so there's like an
ip I mean, they took so many details from this case.

Speaker 3 (01:05:30):
There's even like iPad phone stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
And he said he did not realize that she was
even a foreigner until he saw all the media attention,
you know, to this missing American tourist. When her body
was discovered, he was only a few yards away, so
he was it happened like kind of near probably where
he was living or staying, but he was right there
basically when they found her body, and he told prosecutors

(01:05:54):
that he regretted his crime. And much like in the
episode where they said that the guy had glue and
bath salts in his tent, to Sally told Turkish News
that he had been sniffing household chemicals to get high
on the day of the killing, and he doesn't remember it, doesn't.

Speaker 3 (01:06:08):
Really remember doing it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
So a year later after her going missing, in January
of twenty fourteen, to Sally was sentenced to life in prison.
He also received five and a half years for sexual
assault and two and a half years per theft to
run consecutively to the life sentence, which is, according to Reuters,
so a very sad story that they very much borrowed from.
I mean, she had two young sons, just like this

(01:06:32):
woman in that, just like Ariel, and was just kind
of trying to go on an adventure by herself.

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
So sad, so sad, But we have.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
A delightful interview to cleanse the palette of sadness, So
do not go anywhere. Our guest today is a Broadway
Royalty baby.

Speaker 3 (01:07:01):
We started this.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
Episode talking about Broadway and we're gonna finish it talking
about Broadway. She originated the Broadway roles of both Barbara
Maitland and Beetlejuice and Penny Pingleton in Hairspray. She can
also be seen on TV shows like American Sports Story,
Aaron Hernandez and The Gilmore Girls Revival and you know
her best as the Tragic Canadian Podcast. Are just looking
to have some fun in New York City, Ariel Randolph.

(01:07:24):
Please enjoy our chat with the wonderful Carrie Butler. So
you were saying that they like you don't think the
makeup is great on the show.

Speaker 4 (01:07:32):
Not that it's not great, it's just that, you know,
I'm used to doing TV shows where like you look,
even though you're a real person, you look like semi glamorous,
and I'm always like, oh, I I gotta do my.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
Social media today. I'm looking great. But on.

Speaker 4 (01:07:50):
Law and Order they specifically said, you know, like, no,
we can't wipe the mascara from your eyes. You know,
They're like no, we want, we really want, like hardly
any make up your hair. I didn't have like a blowout,
you know. It was very kind of like just down
and back and.

Speaker 3 (01:08:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:08:07):
Yeah, but even like more natural than most TV shows.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
Yeah, because you've done other crime style shows. You are
you saying that Law and Order you is they want
you looking the worst.

Speaker 3 (01:08:22):
Like a blood exactly. I think sometimes those shows they
still want you to.

Speaker 4 (01:08:27):
Look like TV star kind of you know, and Law
and Order they specifically like, no, no, no, no, no, we
can't make you look glamorous. Yeah, I'm like, can't you
just get the circles under my eyes?

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
I mean, you look caught at the beginning of this episode,
when you're at the concert, you're having fun, you look good.

Speaker 3 (01:08:44):
And then I was I've been on two Law and Orders.
I wasn't sure which one you were talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
We're going to talk about both, Yeah, okay, but we're
going to start with talking about.

Speaker 4 (01:08:54):
Uh, that one, that one I was more that one.
I was more glamorous than the second one.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
I was a big But then at the end when
you when you have this video message to your children,
I remember thinking when I was watching it, I was like,
can they just wipe the eyeliner, like what, she looks
like she's been crying.

Speaker 3 (01:09:12):
But you know, I.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
Thought I got it because it's like you were on Mollie,
you had this like incredible experience realizing that you loved
your family.

Speaker 3 (01:09:20):
I mean, it's a really sad episode. It's so sad.
It's really sad. I know, it's so sad.

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
When I watched your next one and was like, oh,
it's awesome, worse, it's the worst of all time, I
would say, and I for some reason last season I
never had seen this episode and it was so it
was like probably the worst, one of the worst I
think in the twenty five year history now twenty six year,
but like.

Speaker 4 (01:09:48):
Worst in terms of being the saddest in terms of
it's me for life.

Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
Yeah, great, great.

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
The acting was great, everything was really great, but the
directing amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
My stomach was dropped. I was tense the whole time
and just like it really it was really upset.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
It really upset me too.

Speaker 4 (01:10:07):
I have two daughters, and I was like, I just
I can't even go there, you know what, I as
an actor, my god, yeah, and I'm like no, no, no,
I'm not gonna go from my personal experience. I'm gonna, like,
you know, just pretend I'm somebody else and in the situation.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
And I was fully tearing up in the in the
video message to the Suns when they're watching it. I
was like, oh my god, I should make a message
for my kids in case I die. Like it was like, so,
oh my god, Oh yeah, great performances, very emotional. So
where did you go because you were very I mean

(01:10:40):
you were shaken up and it was just like a
great performance.

Speaker 4 (01:10:43):
So what did you use since you know no real
life do you mean for you mean for the with
the boys or with the second I know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
We're going back and forth. I would say the second
episode is what I'm thinking.

Speaker 4 (01:10:52):
The second episode was the worst because the second episode.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
Was Rishka meets you at that bar. Yeah, it was
like you were so fucked up, uh over it?

Speaker 3 (01:11:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:11:02):
I kind of rather than thinking about it happening to
my own daughters, I kind of was thinking we were
at the same time, and not to get political, but
it was the things happening to the hostages, and I
could just drop into that, like just imagine, you know,
you're seeing all of these stories about people losing their
families and so it's hitting you on a personal level

(01:11:22):
just that it's happening, and so I kind of could
draw from that more so than imagining it happening to
me in real life, right yeah, just like the missing
of a child you know is not well. But yeah,
and like we're all thinking, like we're all worried about it.
We're all like, you know, it's just the worst to
think about that, and then like not sleeping at night,

(01:11:43):
and then you know, once as an actor you're in it,
like I wasn't sleeping a night.

Speaker 3 (01:11:47):
Then, because it's like you can't leave it. I don't
know how Marishka does it, you know, And.

Speaker 4 (01:11:52):
She's so happy on set and she's amazing to be around.
But to do that all the time, that's what I
left thinking. I'm like, wow, I admire her so much
that she's commonly.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
Just like a compartmentalization queen, right like just can totally maybe.

Speaker 4 (01:12:05):
Like as soon as we as soon as the scenes
were over, she was able to, you know, make jokes,
make us have fun on the set, because otherwise how are.

Speaker 3 (01:12:12):
You going to get through it?

Speaker 4 (01:12:14):
Yeah, those long days and joking with the crew, Yeah damn.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
But she also your character in Again the more recent one,
yea detached when she was like, oh, she said she's
at her friend's house.

Speaker 4 (01:12:28):
Yeah, yeah, I think that was That's normal. Yeah, that's
normal because you just you don't want to go there.
Everything's okay, everything okay. Yeah, course you always you obviously
think like, oh my god, what happened to her friend? Right,
you know, you don't think that something could have happened
to your loved one.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
But I'm just like children in the park after dark,
get out of there?

Speaker 3 (01:12:49):
What are you doing?

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
But also just the what also grabbed me about that
episode is like what would you do if your friend
Because in my head I was like I think I'd
run and try to call the police. But then it's
like are you ditching your friend? So do you go
and try to fight these people? And so that really
made me feel a lot too of like be it
like how much decisions this like scared girl had to

(01:13:13):
make in the middle.

Speaker 3 (01:13:13):
Of the night. Well, but she was there, she was
held with them, right, so she couldn't go.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
First she was frozen, like they grabbed one of the
girls and then the other one stood frozen and then
ran to help her friend.

Speaker 4 (01:13:27):
Yeah, and then she had that really good monologue right
about how she wished that she could do more. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I think when you're that young too, you know you
it's you're so like frozen and frightened. It was very
believable to me that she wouldn't know what to do
in that situation. And in hindsight, it's so easy I
think for us to be like.

Speaker 3 (01:13:48):
Just call on one one, you know. And I think
my character did say that too. I'm like, why didn't
you just call on you know? Yeah, like and just
getting angry at the victim in a way.

Speaker 4 (01:13:59):
And yeah, I do remember that part, and I remember
Mrishka like putting her hand on my That was when
I think those scenes were when my maternal instincts come out.

Speaker 3 (01:14:08):
How you can actually be.

Speaker 4 (01:14:09):
Mad at your daughter for like, you know, you have
all of this inside, like you're so relieved they're okay,
but you've just been through this trauma and so it
has to come out somewhere, so you're like, why didn't
you you know? Yeah, and Rishia had that really good
moment where she's like, Okay, calm down, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:28):
Yeah, Well, we say on this podcast, there was a
prosecutor in one of the cases and she said, we
expect people to act normal and abnormal situations, and yeah,
we keep that in our minds all the time of
like why would yeah, why are you expecting someone act
normal in this like psychotic situation that you should?

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
And people we recently talked about how like the four responses.
We always talk about fight or flight, but there's also
freeze and fawn. Yeah, and those are like I think
happen more often than we think too, you know. So yeah,
so this just for the listeners. What is season twenty five,
episode nine called Children of Wolves? Because you know, the

(01:15:09):
ones that are more recent we haven't seen ten thousand
times like we have the other ones, you know, so
I just want to make sure everyone in the audience
knows what we're talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
But yeah, like first it was, yeah, I think a
lot of these we've seen a lot, so we're not
as shocked. But I think I was like really shocked
last night watching it too.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
On top of it, and like they are on season
twenty six, and I get that we can't just have
like a totally fresh plot every time, so but this
one is like Children of Wolves is like a combo
of ones we've seen before with wildings or whatever, like
you know, like guys that attack like as a group.
But then also some of these like hostagey ones we've done.

(01:15:47):
It's like a combo of two of the worst kinds
that like give me so much stress. So they really
are still reinventing the genre all the time, just combining
horror horrors.

Speaker 3 (01:15:58):
Well.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
Also, I was also shocked when they had a hiss,
they had a record when later in the episode they're like,
these guys have been doing this for a while. Accept
you because a part of me is like, oh, these
tea like uh, I don't know, like a crazy like
a fucked up teen night.

Speaker 3 (01:16:16):
But it's like they were cereal rapists.

Speaker 4 (01:16:19):
Yeah, And then I thought about, you know, the young
girls playing those parts, Like I don't know if you've
had them on, but that's got to be like really
mentally challenging because those scenes were so hard.

Speaker 1 (01:16:31):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I thought it was so interesting too
how they made you her step mom, but you guys
had this special relationship because you could have just been
playing her mom, you know, like but her step mom
and the dad is gone and you only.

Speaker 3 (01:16:44):
Have each other.

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
Like it was it was like an interesting like twist
of a relationship. Yeah, but we could go back to
brief inter brief inure lude.

Speaker 3 (01:16:55):
Brief inture lude.

Speaker 1 (01:16:56):
That's your first time on SVU, right, is that your
first time on a Law in Order?

Speaker 3 (01:17:00):
Yes? Okay, so that's your first Law and Order?

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
And I believe is this Warren light Time season fourteen,
because like, yes, yes, okay, because he's a big theater guy.
You're a Broadway baby, so like, yeah, did they have
you audition or did were they just like I did audition?

Speaker 3 (01:17:18):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:17:18):
And it's funny like after I did that episode, I
don't I don't think I had. I had I didn't
really have a scene Maia with Marishka. But after that,
like years years later, I became really good friends with Marishka. Okay,
I'll hear that, yeah, because our daughters were best friends
in school. But so at that point, yeah, so at
that point I didn't really know her. I didn't know

(01:17:39):
her at all. And but I and I had to
audition just like everybody else. Yeah, and it was a
pretty easy audition, just go in, you know, in the
room for all those people.

Speaker 3 (01:17:49):
And then were they like get in a rowboat, be dead. No, No, it.

Speaker 4 (01:17:55):
Was just do the serious scenes and but it was
you know, it's really a rite of passage for actors
in New York. It took me a long time to
get on. I was like, I finally made it. It's
gonna be in the playbill now. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:11):
So you start, like this episode starts, you're at this
like concert which like is like a Google bordello kind
of group or whatever. They're like, you know, and is
when you're shooting something like this. I don't know if
I've ever asked a guest this before. Is the band
playing a set? Like are they actually playing and you
guys are like doing the dancing and everything, or like.

Speaker 4 (01:18:33):
A dancing A lot of times we're not dancing to anything. Okay,
they don't have I don't think they have the music
rights yet, so sometimes sometimes we might be dancing something
completely different if you see them, like their beat is
so either either dancing in silence or dancing to music
that doesn't is different than what ends up in the
actual show.

Speaker 3 (01:18:53):
Music was good, Yeah, it was fun. It was good.

Speaker 4 (01:18:57):
Yeah, that that was really fun to do. I feel
like that whole section like lots of extras and just
having fun at the you know club. Yeah, at that show.
I feel like all of those scenes were at night almost. Yeah,
so all my calls were late and they were all
really late nights.

Speaker 3 (01:19:15):
Was that exciting? It was exciting?

Speaker 4 (01:19:18):
Yeah, yeah, And we went I think one was the one,
the last scene, you know, where I'm on the camera
that was over by the Brooklyn Bridge and it was
really late at night and I was holding the camera
and then they had other people like filming around me too.
But that was actually like, you know, me filming, which
isn't like another kind of thing I've never done on.

Speaker 3 (01:19:40):
TV, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:19:41):
And that was even cell phones were big bad things.
It was over ten years ago, right, Like I.

Speaker 1 (01:19:46):
Was twenty thirteen when I came out, So cell phones
were but everybody wasn't filming themselves all the time at
that point, and so I certainly wasn't as used to
it as I am now. Yeah, it's interesting because I
I remember I was thinking that. I was like, oh,
it's it's interesting she made like a little video message
for her kids or that even Marishka g chats with

(01:20:07):
the kids or not g chats, I'm sorry, facetimes with
the kids, because I thought of it as more of
a G chat time you know.

Speaker 4 (01:20:14):
During so during that during that time of filming, you know,
I was emotionally available, but I was had to be
so specific about how I held the camera. Yeah, and
so it was a whole other thing that I had
to think about because.

Speaker 3 (01:20:28):
You're shooting yourself and acting, I mean that's.

Speaker 4 (01:20:30):
Yeah, and moving and we were like moving in there,
this whole crew around me moving and it was the
lash other day, and so everybody really wanted to go home.

Speaker 1 (01:20:37):
Yeah, that was a little literal question I wrote on
my thing.

Speaker 3 (01:20:41):
I was like, did you shoot that?

Speaker 1 (01:20:42):
Because I sometimes I think I wonder if they shoot
it and then like degrade it to look like an ELM.
But yeah, that was you the director, And that's like
the heartbreaking part of it too.

Speaker 2 (01:20:53):
You were in such a good place after such a
great night and then this random.

Speaker 3 (01:20:57):
Fucking at random act of violence. So how was it
in the hot And.

Speaker 4 (01:21:01):
I never got I never got any scenes with Richard Thomas,
Oh yeah, your husband, Yes, And even when they like,
you never got even like when they came into the
hospital and you were like lying there, Oh, maybe maybe
I was dead. So I didn't actually get to talk
to him.

Speaker 1 (01:21:17):
You didn't get to you didn't get to act to them,
but now I was warning over your body.

Speaker 3 (01:21:21):
Yeah, yeah, I was.

Speaker 4 (01:21:22):
I was staying in character and just like going to sleep,
do I.

Speaker 1 (01:21:27):
Yeah, he's in another CLASSICSVU as well, so we yeah,
I know.

Speaker 3 (01:21:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:33):
And then I have I want to know about that
rowboat scene, Like did they just throw you in a
rowboat and push you up against the Like were they like, okay,
we need you to like look a little bit more dead?
I mean, how how did you like tell us about
that scene?

Speaker 3 (01:21:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:21:47):
That was so cool. That was right in Central Park. Yeah,
and I'm like I made it. I died in Central
and they kind of gosh, I don't remember it, but
I kind of remember them like showing me exactly how
they wanted my body.

Speaker 1 (01:22:04):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:22:05):
So they got in the boat first and you know,
definitely arranged you how they wanted to look. And again
there I had to worry about not breathing obviously since
I was dead, So that was the only.

Speaker 1 (01:22:19):
Stress to work, yeah, or dying very light pulse, very
light pulse at that time.

Speaker 3 (01:22:25):
Yeah, yeah, oh my gosh. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:22:27):
But it was fun too. I loved filing on location
and it was fun to go into Central Park. You know,
near the boat house, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:22:35):
Where they're like tourists being like, yes, I've thought people
were having their life. Can you imagine it was going
to Central Park to go to the boat house and
they're shooting us view would lose and.

Speaker 3 (01:22:44):
They and there's a woman in a boat. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:22:47):
Yeah, I kind of think that that particular scene was
really really early in the morning. Uh so there weren't
that many people, but whenever we were filming, there would
always be people stopping to look.

Speaker 3 (01:22:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:59):
Well, yeah, I had early in the morning because that's
when the yoga mommy had to go get her adderall
and that's when she found you with the guys.

Speaker 4 (01:23:04):
Right right, right, So I think it like the first
the first scene of the day.

Speaker 3 (01:23:10):
Yeah, oh my god, amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
I actually have a question for the Sorry the Children
of Wolve's episode.

Speaker 3 (01:23:17):
How was it like, my radiator is going off?

Speaker 2 (01:23:19):
If anyone is concerned at the moment, how is it
like being directed by your friend Marushka?

Speaker 3 (01:23:27):
Uh amazing?

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
Oh she directed that one. I didn't even notice that. Okay, cool, Yes,
so she is.

Speaker 4 (01:23:34):
That's what I'm saying about, how she's able to bring
lightness to this really dark material and you know, she
knows everyone. I mean, she's been there forever, but she
knows everyone's name. She everyone, you can tell they love her.
And also I would ask around, you know, to the drivers.

(01:23:54):
They all love her there. They I mean, they cannot
say enough nice things about her. And they would just
tell me story after story about her. You can tell
that the cruelest her. And it was just we had
so much fun together, you know. And then she actually
wrote me into another scene because she liked what I
was doing, and so I wasn't supposed to be in

(01:24:15):
the hospital scene and she put me into the hospital
scene with her and just getting to act with her
and be directed by her because she's you're doing this
scene with her and she's so real, you know, and
your heart of you was like, oh my gosh, I
need to be like her, you know, like that actor brain.

(01:24:37):
But you're like, turn off the actor brand, just be
in the scene, be.

Speaker 3 (01:24:39):
In the moment. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:24:41):
And then she's out of the scene and she's watching
it play back, and she's so supportive. But also when
it's your friend, then it's extra pressure because you're like,
oh god, I don't want to let my friend down.

Speaker 3 (01:24:53):
But she was so so supportive.

Speaker 4 (01:24:55):
And lovely on the set, lovely to everyone, and you know,
a true leader because obviously on this high pressure kind
of show, people's egos get in the way right on
the crew, and like one person wants to do it
one way, one person wants to do it the other way,
and then the director's job is to, you know, figure

(01:25:16):
that out. And it was getting a little tense at
one point, and Marishka just went and pulled somebody aside,
had a private conversation with them like, how can I
how can I make this better for you?

Speaker 3 (01:25:24):
What do you need? Then goes together, but what do
you need?

Speaker 4 (01:25:27):
So I feel like that is really leadership and directing,
you know, just amazing people skills.

Speaker 3 (01:25:37):
Yeah, that's what we've heard. We hear. We talked to
a lot of people, and everybody loves her.

Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
So I mean, like perhaps the most beloved number one
in the business of all.

Speaker 4 (01:25:46):
I think I think I think so, and I you know,
I heard stories about her fighting for people, you know,
frightening the network for people, and but I think when
you talk to the crew and the crew loves her,
and you know, they say, you know, she asked about
my wife. You know, she knows about us. She knows
our lives. That's the sign of a real, like really

(01:26:08):
really good person.

Speaker 3 (01:26:10):
And she's a big Broadway fan.

Speaker 4 (01:26:14):
Yes, yes, yes, yeah she I feel like she'd maybe
had seen me and stuff before, but then when our
daughters became friends, then she you know, she would come
to all my shows with her family.

Speaker 3 (01:26:28):
And I love her husband Peter too.

Speaker 4 (01:26:30):
Nay, yeah, yes, the nicest guy and so so. Yeah,
she loves And she tells me that she goes to
see shows a lot, and she tells me that is
her out, that is what fuels her soul. That's how
she doesn't get depressed by all of this all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:26:50):
Yeah, that makes sense. But it's still like, you know,
an acting thing. I like that her hobby is still
really connected to her work.

Speaker 3 (01:27:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:27:01):
I think she mostly I think she mostly chooses like
comedies and feel good musical theater. Yeah, because that's the
thing that she she needs more than well.

Speaker 3 (01:27:10):
I have the same vibe as her.

Speaker 2 (01:27:11):
That's what I'm usually going to uh huh, laughing and
fun girls singing, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
Is my qualifications of shows. We had Alex Brightman on
the pod. Oh yeah, you were Barbara in Beetlejuice.

Speaker 4 (01:27:27):
Yes, I remember him telling me when he got that
because we were doing Beetle Juice at the time, and
he's like, so they just asked me to do this.

Speaker 3 (01:27:36):
I was like, Oh, you're gonna have the best time.

Speaker 1 (01:27:38):
So you've done like so yeah, like tell it. Like,
we want to talk about your Broadway career besides Beetlejuice.
I mean, you've done Hairspray, Little Shop of Horrors, Xana,
do Rock of Ages, mean girls, You've done like a
million shows.

Speaker 3 (01:27:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:27:52):
Yeah, I've been really lucky.

Speaker 3 (01:27:55):
I am living my dream. Yeah. Are you a too Broadway?

Speaker 1 (01:28:00):
Are you doing anything like coming up or like finishing
anything or like, what's what's going on?

Speaker 3 (01:28:05):
This is fun?

Speaker 4 (01:28:07):
You mentioned that I did Hairspray and I created a
show with the other two women I did Hairspray with
over twenty years ago, Laura Bell Bundy and Marissa Winoker,
who also is a huge SVU fan, Like she is
she is your audience, Like she watches every episode over
and over again.

Speaker 3 (01:28:26):
When I got when I got lown Arner, she was
so so excited. Wait Laura, which one Larissa?

Speaker 4 (01:28:34):
Oh, Okay, Marissa is obsessed and she's never been on
so she has to I think because she's in la
you know, and so I think that's why. But she
is one of those people that watches them over and
over again. So I created the show with them called Mama,
I'm a Big Girl Now, and it's based on, you know,

(01:28:54):
our friendship from when we did the show together and
then becoming mom ourselves and kind of all of the
shows we've done in between in our lives now. And
it's been really really fun. We had an off Broadway
run and now we're on tour. I don't know when
this is coming out, but this weekend we're going to
be in Palm Springs and we're going to Kentucky.

Speaker 3 (01:29:15):
Yeah, we're traveling all over and so it's so fun.

Speaker 4 (01:29:17):
Like just imagine traveling with your closest friends and getting
to perform a show with them. It's in all of
these like fancy places. It's so much fun, and the
audience loves it, so saying yeah, so like Mariska, you know,
loves theater. Like, we just wanted to do something that
spreads joy.

Speaker 3 (01:29:36):
At this time, you.

Speaker 4 (01:29:37):
Know, we're like we're so needed, so down, we just
need to spread joy.

Speaker 3 (01:29:42):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:43):
Well, this comes out in two weeks like the fifteenth,
So I don't know, Okay dates, Okay, so then yes, yes,
check out our website Mama and Big.

Speaker 4 (01:29:51):
Girl Now and we have a bunch of dates coming
up around the country.

Speaker 3 (01:29:55):
Amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:29:56):
Yeah, you can check out that like a three fur
you can see three Broadway stars and one.

Speaker 3 (01:30:00):
That's right, that's what we say. People pay for one
Broadway start, they get three, get three amazing friends.

Speaker 4 (01:30:09):
Yeah, it's really like it's really like girl power, motherhood,
you know, all of that stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:30:17):
Do you know my friend John Hill, he was in Hairspray.
Oh you know John?

Speaker 1 (01:30:21):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (01:30:21):
I love John Hill. Yeah, we were best best friends
with John Hill. Doraing Hairspray and John a photo of
the Zoom then yes, yes, Oh my gosh, we all
adore Jeh Hill. Marissa still like works with him on
his show.

Speaker 1 (01:30:38):
Yeah, that's what I was gonna say, Like we worked
together on something and he was always telling me about
Marissa and like how he was in Hairspray and stuff.
So it just it just like popped into me that
he did Hairspray.

Speaker 3 (01:30:48):
I forgot. I just saw him.

Speaker 2 (01:30:50):
For the first time in face to face I did
his radio show, and.

Speaker 3 (01:30:54):
He is like really beautiful to look at. I was
really it's.

Speaker 4 (01:30:58):
Really the TV just voice that he doesn't use.

Speaker 2 (01:31:03):
He does.

Speaker 3 (01:31:04):
He gorgeous, he does, he does. He.

Speaker 1 (01:31:05):
He just did my show recently doing like comedic songs.

Speaker 3 (01:31:09):
And it was really funny.

Speaker 1 (01:31:11):
He writes like these funny songs like I Know this
Dog and whatever the hell else, but like so funny.

Speaker 3 (01:31:16):
He's singing a little bit.

Speaker 4 (01:31:18):
You know, Okay, good good, Yeah, to be so hot
such a yeah, it's crazy, it's really nuts.

Speaker 3 (01:31:26):
What's your dream theater role?

Speaker 4 (01:31:30):
Well, gosh, I love creating new shows, you know. I've
gotten to create so many new shows, so that's really
my favorite. But my first show that he did in
Broadway was Blood Brothers Anyone Anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:31:45):
So he was from London and I was the understudy.

Speaker 4 (01:31:49):
And now I am old enough to play like the lead,
the mother role, and so that is one of my
dream roles. Oh okay, And actually when I did so,
it was my first show I didn a Broadway and
I did it with the first cast from London. Then
I did it with Sean and David Cassidy. Oh Carol

(01:32:11):
King like was just the cast was just revolving stars.
And I got my first ray show yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:32:20):
So fun.

Speaker 1 (01:32:20):
That's so I think that's so cool too that on
Broadway it's like you're too young to play this role,
like wait a little bit, you can play the the
like the good part, you know, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:32:29):
I know, I know.

Speaker 4 (01:32:30):
It's like the only, only only kind of acting where
you can actually have a career as an older woman.

Speaker 2 (01:32:37):
I also saw in your Insta bio you teach Yes,
is that something you a podcast?

Speaker 3 (01:32:45):
Okay, tell us more.

Speaker 4 (01:32:46):
I have a podcast called Breaking Broadway All four because
the biggest question I get asked on my Instagram on
this how can I break into Bride?

Speaker 3 (01:32:53):
So I was like, you know what, I'm.

Speaker 4 (01:32:55):
Just gonna put it into a podcast so then you
can listen to it. And so it's fun. I, you know,
interview people in the business and I try and find
out people's rejection stories because I always find that to
be inspirational. And then I introduce you casting directors and
you know, just things to help people kind of anybody
who wants to be an actor to make it.

Speaker 1 (01:33:14):
I've been seeing a lot of these in my like
for you page of girls that are like come with
me on a day trying to get cast on Broadway.
And it's like if they're not repped, they're just like
I wake up at the in the middle of the
night and I go into the city because I live
in New Jersey, and then I sign up for an
open call, and then I do the open call and
that takes forever, and then I'll go and like you
know classes, yeah, and then go this, and then I'll

(01:33:37):
do this.

Speaker 3 (01:33:37):
It's like it's a hustle.

Speaker 4 (01:33:39):
Oh yeah, I know. I feel like if I had
to do it now, I would not make it.

Speaker 3 (01:33:42):
You know. It's just I mean to get up. That
is dedication.

Speaker 4 (01:33:46):
They really do get up at like four in the morning,
sign in at five in the morning.

Speaker 3 (01:33:51):
Yeah, so that you can like.

Speaker 1 (01:33:52):
Maybe get plucked out to do the chorus or something, you.

Speaker 4 (01:33:56):
Know, maybe or maybe maybe get the audition. They're going
now really and they're not even getting teap to get
the audition.

Speaker 3 (01:34:01):
Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:34:02):
I just saw Death Becomes Her on Broadway. That was
the last thing I saw because I live in la also,
so I don't see as much Broadway as I used to.
But uh, like the chorus dancers were the sexiest people
I'd ever seen.

Speaker 3 (01:34:16):
I was like, these people are amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:34:18):
Well, it really helped do that like cut out.

Speaker 4 (01:34:24):
I just saw Glengarry Glenn Ross last night, Bill Burr. Okay,
it was opening, yeah, yeah, okay, cool.

Speaker 3 (01:34:34):
I saw some real carpet photos. Yeah yeah, yeah, it
was exciting. It was exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:34:39):
And what's your review. We can blurt, we can cut
it out if you if it's not.

Speaker 3 (01:34:42):
I loved it. I loved it. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:34:44):
I thought it was great, really like great, great performances.

Speaker 3 (01:34:49):
Bilbert.

Speaker 4 (01:34:49):
I didn't really know him, but he was fantastic. I
think he's the big surprise because people were like, he's
a comedian and right, so they were like, none of us, Yeah,
but he was.

Speaker 3 (01:34:59):
He did great.

Speaker 2 (01:35:00):
I think you said some acting role, you know, more
and more, but this is definitely probably a new thing.

Speaker 1 (01:35:04):
For He had a little part in Breaking but he
had a little recurring part in either Breaking Bad or
Better Passault, right, but he was on the King of
Staten Island too.

Speaker 3 (01:35:11):
He was sad and yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:35:13):
But if you ever want to laugh, his special let
It Go is like one of the best.

Speaker 3 (01:35:19):
It's probably from two thousand and five, but it's oh, okay, okay,
so fun.

Speaker 2 (01:35:23):
You're in the mood, just laugh. Oh, speaking of comme,
I'm a I was a big Mindy project. Girl, Will
you tell us so was I?

Speaker 3 (01:35:32):
Oh? Fun? Oh my gosh, that was That was a
really really fun one to do.

Speaker 4 (01:35:37):
I don't I think somehow I didn't even audition for that.
They watched tape of me. I think that maybe the
writers were fans of mine, which rarely happens, I know,
And they were showing Mindy the like clips from Little
Shop of Horrors, and they cast me as the Southern girlfriend.
And it was so hard to keep straight face on

(01:35:59):
that show because Mindy would improvise so much in the
scenes and.

Speaker 3 (01:36:05):
It was so funny. Like I remember there.

Speaker 4 (01:36:07):
Being a bread basket on the table and when Mindy
got mad, she was like, I'll.

Speaker 3 (01:36:12):
Just I'll be taking these with me and just walks
off with the bread. And that was never she never
heard that.

Speaker 4 (01:36:17):
She only did that for one take, or just like
shoving the bread into her mouth.

Speaker 3 (01:36:21):
It was. She's so funny. That was such a fun
show to do.

Speaker 4 (01:36:25):
Oh that's awesome and really also also really down to earth,
really nice.

Speaker 3 (01:36:30):
That's amazing, that's so fun.

Speaker 1 (01:36:32):
The other thing I got from your Wikipedia was your
husband is a muppet puppeteer.

Speaker 4 (01:36:39):
Yes, yes, crazy, Yeah, my husband was on Sesame Street
for over twenty five years. He was the head writer
and he does the puppets and directs of the shows.
But now he has left and now he's still doing puppets,
but he's writing on different shows and trying to create
other new kids shows and things like that.

Speaker 3 (01:36:59):
But yeah, it was planning. Wait, that's awesome. Oh my gosh,
well we love it's funny.

Speaker 4 (01:37:06):
Yeah, we and we grew up down the street from
each other, so it just happened that we both were
in the in the business. But we knew each other
from when we were just kids.

Speaker 3 (01:37:14):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (01:37:14):
I was I was Kim, he was Hugo and bye
bye Bertie in high school.

Speaker 1 (01:37:18):
Stop it. That is so cute. Thank you so much. Yeah,
thanks for talking to us, Carrie. This is great.

Speaker 3 (01:37:27):
Sure, thanks for having me so fun. Well, I mean
that was a thrill.

Speaker 2 (01:37:36):
And I always everyone I brought carry Butler up to
couldn't believe that we talked to her. She really is
a Broadway beloved baby, because people were even by acting
coach he was like.

Speaker 3 (01:37:46):
I love Carrie Butler.

Speaker 1 (01:37:50):
Oh fu Yeah, no, she was great, And now we
have to do that other episode she's in den of Wolt.

Speaker 3 (01:37:55):
I mean, I don't know if we have to.

Speaker 1 (01:37:56):
It's extremely disturbing, but we'll probably do it at some point.
But yeah, oh my god, this episode, this true crime,
it's so fucking crazy that women just can't be by
themselves sometimes.

Speaker 3 (01:38:10):
Without fear of murder.

Speaker 1 (01:38:13):
Yeah, that's kind of what I took away from it,
Like she with all the like hubbub of like her
making out with the people, and the cross dressing principle
and the podcast producer who's maybe a creep, it really
was just she gave a sandwich to the wrong guy.
And that's I talked about that on Ane, another podcast
I went on recently where I was like, so many

(01:38:35):
murders are I feel like they're just literally wrong place,
wrong time, and it's so freaky. Like when I think
about the one we covered on townhouse incident, Remember how
like those guys were just looking to fuck up some houses.
But then one guy he just saw the girl in
the supermarket. Like if they hadn't been in that supermarket
that day, he wouldn't have gone to her house. You know.
It's just like, really, who knows what life will bring?

Speaker 2 (01:39:00):
Well, Yeah, and to bring it back to the yoga
beach though again is They also in the doc talk
to people that escaped him really that were like, yeah,
cause he targeted sex workers. So there were situations where
like a girl was like I need to get the
fuck out of here and was able to do that,
like you know, and had a taser, had to fight
them all like oh my god. But they were scared

(01:39:22):
to go to the cops with information and they refused.
They refused to talk to the sex workers for investigative
purposes either.

Speaker 3 (01:39:31):
Right, Yeah, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:39:33):
Just like it's all fucked up and upsetting as always.
I don't know, it's so hard to always have a postmortem.
I'm like, I know, it sucks, this sucks, It all sucks.
What do you want?

Speaker 1 (01:39:48):
Like, you know, the the men are out here doing
bad things NonStop all the time, and then the people
that are supposed to do their job to help are
also doing bad things, and everyone's just doing bad things.

Speaker 3 (01:40:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:40:01):
Yeah, and that's that. On that, I don't know what
else to say. Like she shouldn't have given him a sandwich.

Speaker 2 (01:40:08):
She should have been in Canada putting her kids to bed,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:40:11):
Yeah, like whatever, why was she traveling alone?

Speaker 2 (01:40:17):
I mean, but she must have been so fucked up
because like that, like.

Speaker 3 (01:40:23):
The teacher's wig was like not well done.

Speaker 2 (01:40:26):
You know what I mean, Like when you see a
dude in drag, like you could tell that's the whole thing,
you know what I mean, Like if you see Tricksie,
you're like, that's that's a performer around huh. So I
just am like he wasn't even contouring, like he wasn't
good at drags.

Speaker 1 (01:40:42):
So it's like you really couldn't tell. Yeah maybe then drugs. Yeah,
the ecstasy makes you have, you know, a little bit
of blurry vision, I guess in terms of that.

Speaker 2 (01:40:55):
But she could tell him didn't care. She's like a
good person, But that didn't seem like the story.

Speaker 1 (01:41:00):
Well isn't that why she left though, like because she
figured out Yeah, but we you know.

Speaker 3 (01:41:05):
That was like a plot hole for me because we
watched them dance.

Speaker 2 (01:41:08):
Yeah, maybe she grabbed his dick and like laughs, I.

Speaker 1 (01:41:11):
Don't know, all right, Well, yeah, a sad one. I
was definitely sad. We don't like, we don't like lose
the victim, like that's been in the hospital. And I
also like making videos like that. I make videos with
that all the time when I'm drunk and having a
great night. So now I'm like, Okay, I guess that's
a jinx. And I can never memorialize a fun little

(01:41:33):
video again. Every video you make, you have to be like,
this could be what they play on the evening news.

Speaker 3 (01:41:40):
If you can get into my phone.

Speaker 2 (01:41:41):
Yeah, but you could write it with like a photo
or something if anything happens.

Speaker 3 (01:41:46):
Oh yeah, that's true. Good to know. All right, Well,
let's move on to what would Sister Peg do? This week?

Speaker 1 (01:41:56):
For what would Sister Peg Do, which you guys know,
is our weekly segment where we direct you towards and organization,
an article, a book, something to give you more info
about what we talked about today. I wanted to look into,
you know, women traveling solo. It's a huge thing. Women
travel solo all the time. It's becoming more and more
popular every year. And I wanted to just point you
to this article titled fifteen Tips for traveling alone as

(01:42:18):
a woman. It's on the World Packers website. It's just
a short list of things you can do to like,
have fun, am be safe while traveling as a woman.
Some things, I you know, thought of, some things I
didn't like. One was like wear a wedding ring, or
don't overshare with strangers, like you don't have to tell
people your life story. There's a lot of interesting tips
on there, so check it out if you're planning a

(01:42:39):
trip by yourself. It's at Worldpackers dot com. But also
the exact link is in our show notes and we'll
be posted on our Instagram stories and saved forever in
our WWSPD highlight the day this episode comes out, and yeah,
happy trails, but stay safe.

Speaker 2 (01:42:57):
Yeah, stay safe everyone, And next week we'll be doing
a lighthearted, charming episode. JK, we'll be doing Underbelly season eight,
episode seven. We're obsessed with all of you. Thanks for listening.
Stay alert, Stay alive, Stay alert, Stay alive. We finally
have our own tagline to murder. Stay alert, be a bitch. Yeah, okay,

(01:43:21):
sale alerts, Stay Alive, be a bitch.

Speaker 3 (01:43:24):
It's all those.

Speaker 2 (01:43:25):
Three that's messed up as an exactly right production.

Speaker 1 (01:43:36):
If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
it That's messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:43:48):
Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese.

Speaker 1 (01:43:56):
As always, please see our show notes for sources and
more information.

Speaker 2 (01:44:00):
Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to.

Speaker 1 (01:44:06):
Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner,
and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song, and Carly
Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive
producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at
Exactly Right Media.

Speaker 3 (01:44:21):
Dun dun

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Hosts And Creators

Kara Klenk

Liza Treyger

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Brief Interlude w/ Kerry Butler