Bob Rock

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bobs Podcast. My guest
today is musician, engineer, producer Bob Rock. Bob good to have.
It's good to be here. I'm a big fan, Bob.
You're in a white right, Yes, I'm in Maui. I
live in a small place called Haiku on the north
shore of Maui. Yeah. How did you decide to move

(00:30):
to a wire Well, my wife decided to move to
Haaii and I followed her. We we you know. Um,
Basically what happened is, uh, we knew we wanted to
kind of live in the States, you know, at some
point in my my life it was best for for us.
For those who don't know, you aren't Canadian, Yes, but

(00:52):
I'm a US resident. I've been here twenty five years,
you know. So. But the thing is is, you know,
my wife, she goes, you're always in the studio, but
I gotta deal with in Vancouver. I gotta deal with
taking the kids to school in the rain. She says,
I don't want to do that anymore. Let's move to Hawaii,
And I said, sure, let's try it. So we tried it,
built a house and never went back. Basically, it's it's

(01:15):
a good life here. How many years you've been in Maui? Yeah,
twenty five years. Okay, So you have how many kids
do you have? I have six? Okay, you have six kids?
What are their ages? Oh? From I guess thirty nine
to twenty four? Two boys and yeah, and five girls? No,

(01:36):
it's four girls. Sorry? And how many are with your
present wife? If not all of them? Uh? Four? So
are any of them with you in Hawaii? Yes? My
last daughter that's at home is Sally and she's twenty four. Yeah.
So what's it like in the covid era in Hawaii?
It's it's kind of for me, it's kind of okay.

(01:56):
We have horses, we've got property, we've got twenty care's
on another part of the island. So I basically get
up in the morning, going to my studio right a bit,
and then I go to the barn and I'm just
you know, I do chores all day and I come
back here. So it's not that bad. I just see
the animals. We got lots of horses and goats, and yeah,

(02:18):
that's what I do. And are you seeing any people?
Are you taking the quarantining things seriously? Uh? Definitely, Seriously,
I just turned sixty six. I happy birthday. I had
my birthday just a few days after years. Really, I'm
the twenty second cool so you know, the wife and
my daughter says I can't do anything, so they do

(02:38):
all the shopping. I'm okay with this, you know, and
it's for me. I don't think I've ever had this
much time off since I started my career. Seriously, like
three months going on three months. It's like this is
something else. Okay, So but in today you can record
from different locations. Are you doing any recording or is

(02:59):
everybody kind of locked down? Everybody's kind of locked down.
I've got uh you know, I mean we trade files,
et cetera. Um, but that's not really kind of like
what I do. You know you can do that, uh,
Like I said, that's not really how I approach it.

(03:19):
But I am. I'm sitting on two albums that i've
I've finished and they were supposed to be basically be
out right now, one with Richie Sambora, a good friend
of mine, and the other one was the Offspring album.
And both albums, I mean, we were done three months ago,
but now they're not gonna come out until next year probably,
which is kind of it's very strange. Well, that may change,

(03:42):
you know, I'll discuss that with Garino. But it's like
it seems like, now this's gonna go on a long
time and you can't go on the road. It's a
good time because there aren't that many new albums out
by major acts. Yeah. The thing is is what I
noticed is all my friends Dexter and like Ritchie and
and other people, everybody with the bou Blet Camp, everybody,
I know, we're all writing, which is kind of good,

(04:06):
you know, yeah, because normally you're working too hard to write. Yeah,
usually you see that. I've got into this whole thing
where I get up early before everybody gets up, and
I'm in the studio writing for probably a couple of
hours every day, you know, five o'clock in the morning.
You know, that's my alone time. Okay. Are you normally
an early morning person? Yeah, I kind of am, you know,

(04:28):
you know, rather than late at night. I'm just kind
of like, I like it early in the morning. What
I discovered is that I'm more creative in the morning
because my head hasn't gotten into the day. My head
is blank when I get up, you know, so I
find that's the best time to create. I'm just the opposite.
But now don't most aren't most musicians nocturnal? Yes they are.

(04:54):
So how does that how does that work for your schedule? Well,
you know, schedules of change. I mean, you know, when
I was younger, it was, you know what, always always
end up being new until like whenever, like Metallica, we
we would work un till four in the morning, you know,
and then just get up and just try and get

(05:15):
to the studio and start again. But that was the
younger days, you know. I try and keep I try
and keep a limit on twelve hours now because usually
after twelve hours I'm done. That's a long time. So
how extensive is your studio in Hawaii? Well, I actually
kind of have a full a full big SSL and

(05:37):
need all the gear, but that went away with the budgets.
You know. I had a lot of people coming here
and we had a great time. But nobody can afford
to come to Maui and and you know stay here
to be quite honest, So it's kind of dormant, which
is kind of sad for me. But but theoretically, if
someone had the money, they could do the whole album

(05:59):
at your studio theoretically, yeah, you know, so you just
talked about doing these albums like with the Offspring, so
you go to the act at this point. Yes, that's
the thing. I got to California and I mainly go
to Vancouver. I use Brian Adams studio. It's an amazing
studio and you know, basically I came from that town,

(06:20):
so it's really easy for me to record. It's it's
the best studio. I bring everybody there. They love it.
And so like if you cut the Offspringer, you work
with Richie Sambora, do you work continuously and how long
does that take? Well? With with both projects, those guys
they kind of we don't really do three months at

(06:43):
a time and just do an album, you know, because
they're writers constantly writing. So with with Dexter, I go
to Huntington Beach, stay there and we usually work like
two three weeks and then we take a break, you know.
And then with Richie it's the same thing. I go
and stay at his house. Um. The thing is is
like you know, even with the big guys who can

(07:04):
afford it, you know, what has happened is like I
put a studio portable studio in Richie's house. It's in
his dining room and it's been there for three years.
I guess he's not eating much. No, that the problem
is is actually the studios right by the kitchen, which
is kind of a drag because we eat all day.
But as it turned out, he just loved it and

(07:26):
it hasn't left, you know, because it's so creative. You know,
you can do it, and then we go to the
studio and we cut like for instance, Able Boreo Jr.
Paul McCartney, Fame, etcetera. We just went into a studio
for three days and did all the drum tracks, you know,
So it's different now, it's it's very rare that I
record everything at the same time. So how do you

(07:51):
feel and how does your wife feel about being separated
for all these recording projects. Well, I think, you know,
we've been together for thirty or five years, so she's
kind of she understands, you know, and that's I think
that's the greatest thing about my wife, Angie, is that
we've always had that understand and she gets what I

(08:11):
did and she knew what she was getting into. So
we've managed to be okay with the whole thing. But
it's some It takes a lot to get up for
me to get on a plane and go away. Now,
let's put it that way. It has to be special.
Those guys are very very special. So in the average
year prior to this insane era, how much of the

(08:32):
year were you outside Hawaii? Maybe for nine months? Okay,
so most of the time. And these records, you're producing,
and you're engineering yourself, and you're mixing yourself, you're working
with other people. Now, I um, you know, just generally,

(08:56):
what I found is that I kind of oversee the
how these sonics go. But I I found, you know,
when I changed to kind of more producing. You know,
the first records that I did, when I started producing,
I did everything and I realized that my perspective was
off and I couldn't do both. So I've always worked

(09:18):
with an engineer to help me. Right now, I've got
a great engineer, Adam Greenholtz, but you know, I've worked
with engineers when I got into producing more seriously, it's
just too much work, and I said, the perspective changes,
you know, and who does the mixing? Well, I do
the mixing, and sometimes it's gets uh put out for

(09:38):
mixers that are hot, you know, like Chris Lord, Algae,
Buff Clare, Mountain, etcetera. You know, and that has changed
from when, you know, when I started. When I started,
it was like it was, you know, we we mixed
our own stuff, which is you know, lover boy, you know,
slippery when wet. Everything that I did didn't even the

(10:00):
first things that I you know, even Metallica and Motley
Crue I was mixing. But then it turned into the
business turned into A and rs and record companies always
went to the same people, and so that changed. But
I actually liked the old days. There was this great competition,
you know, you know I did, you know, I go

(10:20):
out and buy what the record that Bob did because
I want to know what he did. You know, it
was always there was great competition, and the competition kind
of went out of fashion in a way, kind of
got boring. And are you happy with the mixes these
people do? I mean, ultimately you're happy because the record
comes out, but do you feel that you could do
just as good or a different job than the usual suspects.

(10:43):
I don't think it's better, It's just it's a different perspective,
you know, I'll tell you a funny story. One of
the one of the last records that I that I
did the whole record, and uh, I was mixing in
my studio here and I thought, I wonder if I've
got any any better, So I put up term me
lose or not terminators working for the weekend? Okay. And
then the mix that I was doing a bank called

(11:06):
American Bang who turned into Cadillac three. Okay. So I'm
mixing this song and I compared TOI and sonically they
signed it exactly the same. So basically I've learned nothing
or or else you got bell? No? Well, no, The
thing is, that's my perspective. Do you follow me? That's
the way I hear music. So to me, if people

(11:28):
like that perspective, I usually mix. If they want a
different perspective, they go to somebody else. Okay, you talked
about budgets. Obviously that would mean that you're making less
money and a lot of these records don't generate as
much capital as they used to. How has that changed
your perspective, Uh, It's my perspective is the same. You know,

(11:53):
I got into this for the love of of making records.
I mean that is my art form. You know, I
came from a group and I made records and I
wrote songs, etcetera. But to me, it's making records that
I love. So I'm gonna make records no matter how

(12:13):
much I make. I just choose who I want to
work with now, so I don't mind about the monetary thing.
It's always nice. But you know, I get paid well.
And if I have to make a deal to do
a project, if I like the project, I'll do it
bottom line. Okay, So let's assume you're on a project

(12:34):
and you're not living in Richie's house, you're living in
a hotel. Well, when Vancouver? Do you have your own
place in Vancouver? What do you what do you stand
in hotel? Okay? A lot of people don't like that life.
How how do you do that? You know the session
is over? How do you keep yourself seeing? Um? Well,
in Vancouver it's easy because I have friends and family there,

(12:57):
so that's easy. And I have friends in Los Angeles.
Those are really the primary the two places. And you know,
if like when I was doing Van Morrison, you know,
five years back, it was great because I was in
London for like a couple of months, right, And I
love London. So you get to be in London, you

(13:18):
do things. Okay, let's go back to something you said earlier,
talked about writing. What are you personally working on in
terms of writing? Well, what I do is I constantly right,
That's how I write. I put together tracks and I
guess present terms, it would be almost like rap producers
put together beats or a track and usually handed off
to an artist. That's what I did. So on the

(13:41):
new Zambora album, uh, we co wrote basically, I think
about eight songs on the record and I just brought tracks,
which is very different, you know, But somehow we had
so much fun that we just kept going. So the
new stuff, it's like it's him and I writing. Okay,

(14:03):
so you go to the studio early in the morning.
How long does do you work on a track or
do you come back to a track? I mean tracks
are done, Records are done when you all feel like
you've nailed it. So that yeah, I'm not I'm not
actually talking about that. I'm talking about you know, y
now when you're working alone starting a ground zero. You

(14:24):
talked about your writing. I assume you're creating things out
of thin air. Or maybe I have that wrong. No, no, no,
it's basically and this is what amazing technology has happened.
The technology has come uh to make it really easy.
So I work on my laptop so I can put
together a track in about an hour, you know, basically

(14:46):
with like I've got my own uh drum kind of
sample library, et cetera, so I can. So something inspires me,
I'll hear something that'll spark and I'll just play guitar,
you know, and they'll be something that I take and
I take that and then I develop it and usually
like I've been working on a piece of music now
for two weeks and it started out as this, but

(15:09):
it went there, which is kind of in a funny way,
the way I work with artists. You know, you start
with something and you have an idea and you work
with it and it goes somewhere else. You know, conceptually,
records for me, you know, you can talk about conceptions
in terms of how you're going to make a record,
et cetera, but it always comes down to the work

(15:30):
that you put in in the hours that you spend.
You know, it can either happen very quickly or it
can happen over a length of time. People kind of
update these days. I believe a lot, at least that's
what I do. So even like with with the time
that Ritchie and Dexter have had because of the virus thing,

(15:52):
of course they're starting to hear things that they want
to change even though we finish the record, because that's
what musicians do. You constantly want you think it can
be better. I'm not sure that works, but the way
it was was great, but now you know, looking at it,
you always think it can be a little bit better.
And so you said, you've got an idea, tell me
about that inspiration. It can be like a beat, it

(16:17):
can be a sound, it can be something that I've
heard and when like um, when I moved to Hawaii,
I realized that a lot of the music stores don't
have all the vintage gear that I collect and most
of the gear that I've collected through the years. It's
always like a sound like I have every amplifier, effect

(16:39):
and guitar that Jimmy Page has, same with like Jeff Beck,
same with Eric Clapton, same with Leslie West, same with
Brian May, same with David Gilmour. I collected all the
amps and everything and it's kind of like it's almost
like an artist's palette, right, you know, all these colors,
and that's what I do. So yeah, so it will

(17:05):
It'll start with that and I get inspired. Like, for instance,
I have a collection of amplifiers, and Jimmy Page is
one of the biggest influences on my whole life, basically
from led Zeppelin on, you know, and so I've got
a collection. I've got the actual amplifier that he used,
not the amplifier, but the exact amplifier that he used
on led Zeppelin one. And I've got the same guitar.

(17:28):
I've got everything, right, I never nailed the sound. A
month ago I discovered on the Internet that I was
missing one piece of gear, which was a two bACC Coplex,
and I have one. So I hooked it up and
I got the sin that I got the sound on
good times bad times, and I was like a little kid.

(17:51):
I was dancing around the series because I actually nailed it. Now,
what I'm gonna do with that, I have no idea,
but the fact is I still get excited about that. Okay,
how much equipment do you have? How many guitars do
you have? I don't count them, but it's over a hundred,
you know, a hundred and something. I have a warehouse

(18:11):
full of amps and keyboards, et cetera, vintage stuff. That's
my question, is the is the warehouse in MAUI? Yeah,
it's down below. Yeah. And how many amps do you
think you have? Oh? I don't know. I've lost count,
but I still buy them. I still buy I still yeah.

(18:31):
You see went earlier on, like when I started I
first started playing guitar, I had my dad could only
afford a I can't guitar, and I had a heath
kid am. So I was always like everybody else had
better gear than me. So it kind of started this
thing with me. So as soon as I started making
money writing songs in my band, the pay all is

(18:51):
I always put the money that I made by writing
songs back into something. So like, for instance, one of
our biggest songs with the Pails was Eyes of a Stranger. Okay,
And how I got that is I read about Bob
Marley using a drum machine on the Natty Dread album.
I listened to it and I found out what the

(19:12):
drum machine. So I got a check for writing songs,
bought that drum machine. That drum machine turned into the
machine that I used on Eyes of a Stranger that
wrote the song. So I've done that for basically almost
forty years. I keep doing it. Okay, let's assume you
wake up and you don't have an idea. Will you

(19:32):
sit there long enough or you just work on something
you've already been working on, UM a bit of both.
Sometimes I wake up and i'm you know, when I
wake up in the morning, I kind of think of things.
I'll think of a song. Now I can kind of
do it in ahead changes, etcetera. What you do when
you when you become a writer, etcetera. You learned that

(19:55):
there's certain standard changes. So to me, there's so many
things that basically are the same song. So it's really
about a feel, a feel that I hear or something
that I remember. So I walk into the studio with
kind of like that idea and I just try and
usually what that seed takes me somewhere that I didn't

(20:18):
you know, it wasn't conceived. That seed made me go
somewhere else, and that's when I get something I like. Now,
this begs the question, how do you attribute songwriting credits? Well,
songwriting credits. It's it's like, that's what I've done my

(20:40):
whole life. Is I never anything that I ever added
to anything that I've worked on Up until a couple
of years ago. I never took credit because I didn't
think I wanted to be in that game, So suggestions
that I did as a producer I never kind of went, well,
I I need credit for that because I like being
a pre docer and I think it's a different game

(21:01):
to be a songwriter. You know. I didn't want to
be in that game. I just wanted to produce and
make records. Things have changed slightly and and I think
I think I put it out there a bit more
like I just did an album with Jenn Arden up
in Canada and we just we kind of played a
couple of tracks, she wrote songs, and we just kept going.

(21:22):
Same thing with Ritchie, So we'll see how it goes. Okay,
now you talk about the reverence for Jimmy Page, and
I was smiling, just can talk about that sound from
good times bad times? Do you think these artists that

(21:42):
have had previous peaks a decade or so previously, how
would you personally try to get their head back in
the game. If you had an opportunity, like if you
had Jimmy Page, what would you do to try to
get him to create something akin to his classic era,
not in sound, but in that's Ah, that's a tough one, actually, No, Jimmy,

(22:07):
you know, and we've talked and we've had you know,
and stuff, and it's really really different when somebody like that,
when you're at the presence of somebody that you revere,
you know, that is a tough thing. You know. I
just make him comfortable and from what I know, I

(22:27):
would go with what I know and and kind of
what he does and kind of make him, you know,
kind of look back, but not go back, you know.
As as Bowie said, it's you know, he's every album
he makes is the same but different. So it's almost
like recognizing what's good about what you do. Like I
I'd like to see Jimmy play the blues. I think

(22:50):
he would make an incredible blues album like The Stones
did because basically that was, you know, that's the seed
of my whole career in my life, really the three
guys Jeff Back, Eric Clapton and Jimmy Page and the
Truth Album, the Jeff Back Album and leads up on One,
I bought within I don't know. They were released fairly

(23:11):
soon in up in Canada, and those two albums started
everything for me, my journey and so to me when
I listened to it, Like with Richie, I played the
Truth album, which he wasn't familiar with. He didn't know
he he didn't know Truth. He now lives up in One,
but he didn't know Truth. So you know, when he

(23:32):
heard Truth, he went, well, what the fuck? He did
not know that? And the tones and everything, do you
know what I mean? Yeah, so you can imagine, you know,
Like you know, sometimes people try and make contemporary contemporary
records and I get that, but like um, like for instance,

(23:56):
the Sambora album, we were just two teenagers leaning on
all those guys that we love, you know, and going back.
But it sounds modern and it's just those influences. Is
so would Jimmy to answer the question with Jimmy Page,
I just go, Jimmy, Let's start with the blues. He

(24:17):
was like the man. He made the blues sound different.
You know. Okay, I'm gonna put a question you're not
gonna answer. Of the three, well, let's put it this way.
Greatest rock guitarist of all time. Oh that's that's so mean,

(24:38):
Bob um Well. I would say I would say that
both Clapton and Paige because I was there actually when
Monta got Uh in the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame and Jimmy Page put Jeff Beck in the Hall
of Fame, and he said that Jimmy Page is the
best guitar player in the world period, and Clapton has

(24:59):
said the same, And so I would say I would
go back because everybody I know Back is pretty much
the guy in terms of the standard, you know, Key
Scott of Brian Adams Fame, etcetera. We went and saw
Jeff back and you could just we were just like teenagers.
And I was sitting with Robbie Craiger to the three
of us, and we were watching Jeff Beck and we're
just going like, what did he just do? Do you know? Still?

(25:24):
You know, still he's still the guy that shocks all
of us? I agree totally. You know, when people talk
to you. I remember they had the arms concerts in
the Ronnie Lean Muscular Ms shows and the three of
them were all on stage clapped in back. And that
was when Page was working Uh in the firm and

(25:46):
Beck just blew him away. I mean I talked to
Beck once and they say, never missed a note. You know,
he said, oh I missed a note. But it's like
Beck doesn't write the way Page doesn't, doesn't produce whatever.
But in terms of sheer playing, it's unbelievable. Yeah, A
a big moment for both Keith Scott and I. We
were both at the Queeney Theater in Vancouver when the
Blow By Blow tour came through Vancouver. I saw that

(26:09):
and just like, well, not Key so much, but me,
I just wanted to give up because what I mean,
what he's like so connected. Anyway, So there's your answer.
I picked back because I think Gilmore, Page Clapton everybody
would say the same thing along with Key Scott. Okay,

(26:30):
let's go back to the beginning. So you're from Vancouver
originally born in Winnipeg and Okay, and how many generations
have your parents been in your family been in Canada?
I would say just two. My parents parents were My

(26:51):
mom's side was Icelandic my middle name is Jens and
my father's side is Irish English from Birmingham and Belfast.
On my dad's side, how did they end up in Winnipeg. Um, well,
they immigrated to Canada as the Astec. As a matter
of fact, a huge Icelandic community moved to Winnipeg in

(27:14):
the uh after the I guess after the First World War.
They immigrated to get out of Iceland. Uh. And it's
kind of a funny story because they didn't realize how
cold it was in Winnipeg. It was actually colder in
Winnipeg than it was in Iceland anyway. But yeah, how
long did you live in Winnipeg? Tell about sixty eight? Okay,

(27:38):
so you grew up in Winnipeg. I grew up in Winnipeg.
My team, the start of the start of my musical
thing was in Winnipeg. And uh yeah, I mean it
was the Stones on TV on Ed Sullivan and the
Beatles and the Monkeys, and just like that whole thing
for me was great. Actually, my mom drove me to

(28:01):
the airport with my sisters in her Volkswagen and we
saw the Beatles get off the plane going to New
York on the first tour. They came out and waved.
She drove us to the airport because her girlfriend worked
at Air Canada. So we went and we saw the
beatles waving. That's like a standing meawhile, that's quite a
supportive mother. My mother wouldn't have driven me to Kennedy

(28:24):
Airport or Idle Wild. It was called Yeah, no, she was.
She was into it. She was into it. I told
that to Paul too. He thought it was funny. Did
he remember waving in Winnipeg? He remembers getting off the
plane because that was that was where they landed. They
had to stop there for fuel right to get to
New York. They couldn't get to New York they went

(28:45):
over the pole right, so they stopped in Winnipeg. So
he remembers getting off the plane. He didn't remember me though.
So what'd your father do for a living in Winnipeg?
It was an insurance salesman in the insurance business. And
your mother homemaker or worked outside the homemaker. How many

(29:07):
kids in the family. I have two sisters, And where
are you in the hierarchy? I'm middle. I have an
older sister, really, but that's just like me actually, I'm
the middle whatever. So okay, how do you uh discover music? Well,
it had a lot to do with my older sister, Sue.

(29:30):
You know, she actually saw the stones in Winnipeg with
Brian Jones. Can you imagine? No, I can't imagine. Yeah,
she saw them there. Yeah, so it was funny because
she brought music in, you know, and she liked the Beatles,
So I immediately like the Stones, right because I had
to be different the animals and Dave Clark five, and

(29:53):
she loved Beatles anyway, so she brought music in there.
And then my dad actually got me guitar lessons, uh,
and that started my journey. And of course the guests
who were on TV. I was telling this to not
to drop names, but Van Morrison because he asked me
the same thing, where are you from? And I was
saying I was saying that the guests who were big

(30:16):
rock stars to me because they played all the hits
every week on a TV show, like they would just
recreate the hits, right, and so they were so big
to me, you know, the guests who Okay, did you
want guitar lessons because you saw the Beatles on TV?
Or did it predate that or what was the inspiration
guitar lessons were? Basically it was Keith Richards, Make no mistake.

(30:41):
I singled him out right away, you know when I
saw him. I went, I don't know what's going on there,
but I like it. So I've always wanted to be that.
You know, well, his sounds are not that easy to
figure out either, the way does the tunings, etcetera. No,
but when you know, you know, when you know it,

(31:03):
it's it's something else. And what's so great about it
it's signature. Nobody can put that on a record without
going that's Keith richards thing, right, That's an amazing thing
that it's so signature his thing. Yeah. I tried all
the time and it never works. Okay, So you're taking
guitar lessons, you start with an electric guitar or an acoustic.

(31:26):
I had an acoustic at first, but I went to
electric right away. I wanted to know how to play
an electric guitar. I wanted it to be loud, you know,
and that's you know once right in the beginning, though,
I was always into the sounds you know of those records.
That's that's what is that is kind of that whole

(31:47):
line for me. It's always about the sonics and why
does that sound like that? Like? Uh, and so electric
guitars where I went, um, Yeah, The big point for
me was actually we moved to Victoria out on the
West coast, and I guess sixty eight, Okay, So I

(32:09):
left school and I left all my friends in Winnipeg
in that whole scene, and moved out to Victoria. Knew
nobody right, I was playing hockey, blah blah blah. There
was kind of no hockey out there. You had to
pay to play hockey, so hockey went. So I was
alone and I didn't have friends for like a couple
of years. It was really tough. It was a tough move,

(32:30):
you know. I hated my dad for it, but it
ended up being the best thing that ever happened because
all I did was play guitar and listened to records.
You know. That's a great lesson that some of those
things that hurt so much end up being the thing
that changes your life. And that changed my life. As
I've come to realize that begs the question, did you

(32:51):
have a lot of records? Did you have a good stereo.
I wouldn't say it was a good stereo, but we
had a stereo in the house, you know, as my
parents love music, you know, and my sister had it.
So we bought as many records. I bought singles. Of course,
everybody about singles, right, you know, because that's all you
could really afford. Albums were kind of like a little

(33:12):
bit more money. You know, had lots of singles. So
when did you form your first band? In Victoria? We
were kind of like a doors cover band because we
couldn't play led Zeppelin doors. It was a little easier
except for the solos. And how did that come together?
Are you like the business guy or how did you

(33:34):
find the other members in the band? Well, we were
all guys in school together, you know, so we we
were called the Wine, which is horrible, horrible with y.
It was just a horrible name. Um. But anyway, um,
you know when we started, we played the the Sawcops
in school and did covers and we started getting blues

(33:56):
and stuff. Yeah, so I had many bands and really
until I moved in Victoria to another place in Lankford.
That's when I met the guy that I really started
to hit it off with, a guy named Paul Hyde.
And it was like grade ten and he was from England.

(34:17):
So to me that was a guy that you know,
I had to know. He showed up at the bus stop,
he had his head shaved and I thought he was
a skinhead, so I thought, this guy gotta meet. We
ended up meeting, and oddly enough we just had the
same love of English blues, in English music and just music,
and that's when really connected. And we had a band,

(34:41):
and we had a blues band because blues was was
a big thing in Victoria. So, so how long did
you take lessons for? Are you self taught? I took
lessons to learn how to play, and then it was
self taught and you didn't have I just listened to records,
you know. Can you read music today? No? Okay? So

(35:06):
you get together with Paul Hyde. At what point do
you say this is what I want to do as
a career. If you even say that, well, we kind
of decided. The thing was I went to England when
I was eighteen. As soon as I finished school, Paul
and I and the drummer that we had, Billy, we
went to England to be rock stars. We saved money

(35:28):
working in restaurants. I had a guitar. We went to
England and we lasted six months, okay um, and came back. Uh.
But we were I knew it like the last the
last year's school. Basically, I don't think I went. As
a matter of fact, I know I didn't win. Go
I should say. All I did was go to Paul's

(35:49):
house and we just play music. So I knew what
I was supposed to do. And your parents were cool
with this, No, they weren't, not whatsoever, my dad particularly. Yeah.
The greatest thing though that happened. I actually graduated. I
had a graduation. Okay, this is the greatest thing in
Canada is that you don't get your marks until after

(36:10):
you graduate. So everybody goes through the graduation. So I
went through graduation, didn't get a diploma. And my dad,
till the day he died, said, did you get your
marks yet? Bob? I never got He knew, right, but yeah, anyway,
so he he wasn't keen on the musical thing. But

(36:31):
there you go. So you come back from England and
where's the act? Then? Well what happened is I ended
up getting jobs working in mills, slaughter houses, cardboard box factory,
doing all sorts of stuff and playing music. But I
ended up hearing this advertisement on the radio ah and

(36:55):
saying that there was this course offered in Vancouver for
six weeks one you know, Saturday, for six weeks, uh,
and I asked my parents if they would give me
the money to do it. So it was basically I
went over to Vancouver six saturdays in a row and
I learned basic engineering okay, And because of that, what

(37:19):
happened there? Um, the guy that was teaching the course, uh,
offered me a job at a little mountain. You know,
I was the guide. I wait, wait, how many kids
were in the class and how come you got the job? Well,
I'll tell you why I got the job. I was
the only one that wasn't scared to make a mistake.

(37:41):
Every time he said who wants to try? And it
was always I'll do it, even though I didn't know
what I was doing. But I got the job because
I was the only guy that would say, I don't
care what if I make a mistake. I just want
to do it. That's why I got my job, which
started my entire career. So it's a very good lesson

(38:01):
just put yourself out there. Okay. So you immediately moved
to Vancouver and you start working a little mountain I suppose.
And where does that Where does that leave you as
a player with Paul Hodg Well, he went off, he
stayed in England and moved to Toronto, and then he
ended up in Vancouver. When I started at a little
mountain and right then punk music came happened, okay, in

(38:26):
the late seventies. I started at a little mountain in
seventy six, okay, and about seventy eight we started, Uh,
we were playing and stuff. But then when punk broke
um and it's kind of an interesting thing looking back
at it. What happened is looking back at it when

(38:47):
I look back, and the punk documentary that Vervados Niggy
Pop did is an excellent documentary and it shows exactly
kind of what happened. A lot of people in that scene.
We weren't allowed to be playing clubs and stuff because
we weren't that good, right, But all of a sudden,
with punk, we could play clubs, right because we only

(39:11):
knew three chords and played fast and loud, and actually
we could make records. Well. I worked at a studio,
so Paul and I started to write songs and that's
how we learned how to I learned how to put
it together. Okay. So that was punk music gave us
that foot in the door we didn't want. We weren't

(39:31):
into anarchy or anything. We just wanted to make records
and punk music allowed us to learn how to make records.
So the first song we wrote, China Boys, we put
it out a thousand copies. We got signed to I R.
S Records on one song. We got signed on the
first song we wrote, I'm not kidding you. Ok, how

(39:54):
did that happen? Well, this guy somebody, because we sold
the foul and and it it became kind of a
hit in the Vancouver scene, and then everybody heard it
in Toronto, so A and M. This guy Michael got in.
He signed us for an EP and he said do
you have any more songs? And we said, yeah, we

(40:14):
got lots. We had nothing. As soon as we left
the meeting, we wrote songs. We wrote four more songs
and put out an EP and that did kind of
okay in Canada, and so we got an album deal
with with I R. S. J. Boberg. He signed us
and R. E. M at the same time. The same
week he signed us, it was then called the Paolas. Yes,

(40:36):
worst name ever. So what's the story of the name. Well,
we thought we thought it was really kind of funny,
poking at the Payola scandal, right we thought that was
very punk. Right. There's this famous uh radio guy, Charlie Minor.
You probably heard of him, right, And he said yeah,

(40:58):
and I do. We know him really well. And he
said to us one day, he says, you know, guys,
I love your music, but your name. I can never
do anything to help you because that is just an
insult to what I do. Let's go have some dinner.
And he says that dollar signed at the end is
such an insult. Anyway, I saw him two days before

(41:20):
he was shot. It was very weird, but okay, you
have the peel those what do you do for the
rest of the band were just fine players. We made
our first album. We actually asked, uh, we're big fan
Bowie fans, and Mick Ronson was the guy that we
wanted to produce our first record. We sent him all
the demos and we didn't hear back, so I ended

(41:41):
up just doing it myself, which was a big mistake,
you know. But what was great is Mick Ronson phone
back nine months later and says, I really like your demos.
There was actually the demos for the first album, and
we had already started writing for the second album, so
he actually league came to Vancouver and he produced our

(42:03):
Second Experience or Bad Experience with Ronson. Yeah, Oh, Mick
Ronson is the biggest influence on my production and as
a musician period. You know, working with him changed everything.

(42:24):
He was such he did two albums with us and
actually toured with us. But I'll tell you the best
thing I can tell you. Mc Ron's story is so
Eyes of a Stranger. I told you about buying the
drum machine, blah blah blah blah, and I actually recorded
the whole track as a demo. So he comes in
and he listens to all the song and he's saying, Okay,
we've gotta do this, so this is great. I play

(42:44):
him the track of Eyes of a Stranger with Paul
with the rib vocal. He goes, we're not going to
get better than that, so let's keep that track. I'm
just gonna overdub some keyboards. In other words, he just
he didn't have to rerecord it. He just said, that's great.
So we did an at it to fix it. He
put keyboards on it. I mixed it at the power station,

(43:05):
and it's our biggest song that taught me a lesson.
It's like he didn't have to change anything. He heard
that it was good by itself and that a lot
of people don't do that. Most people would just go like, well,
we got to re record it. He went, no, that's great.
That's just a simple story about him. I could tell you.
We could talk for hours about him. Well, give me

(43:25):
one more story. Well, he he taught us. He taught
us like, there was a couple of songs where you know,
he would say, this is a great song, but let's
see if we can find the home for the song,
and we're going like, what do you mean the home?
In other words, he heard the song, but it wasn't
done the right way. So we had this great song.
I was really into Darkness on the Edge of Town,

(43:47):
the Springsteen song, so I basically mimic kind of that feel.
And he said it's a little kind of hard, and
he said the lyric isn't like that. So he ended
up playing a piano part and we did this. It's
called Hastings Street. It's about the skid row in Vancouver,
and he changed it and it went to a place

(44:09):
that is beautiful and it's an incredible song and a
credible track. So he taught that to us that no
matter what you do, and I still believe this is
whatever you need. Inspiration was to write a song, write it,
and then you find the home. A lot of people
get stuck where they write that demo and there it's precious.
They don't want to change it. But sometimes there's a

(44:31):
song there, but it's just not done right. So he
showed me that. But the greatest thing I'll tell you
we we did a tour after the second album we
did with them, and we didn't have a keyboard player,
and we had a tour to open up for Split
Ends in Canada, the whole Canadian tour um and he says, well,

(44:52):
I'll play keyboards for you, And so he came on
the whole tour with us. And the first night we
were playing in Victoria and sound check can Split Ends
around the side of the stage and they're going like
is that So he was, Yeah, he did the whole
tour with us. That's the kind of guy he was. Okay,

(45:18):
that makes a question. I mean, everything's changed today, but
prior to this decimation of recording royalties and budgets, are
you the type of guy? You know? The Stones legendarily
rode in the studio. So you're the kind of producer
where you want the material firsture, you want to work
in pre production or every act is different. I think

(45:39):
every act is different, you know, the whole thing of
writing in the studio. Uh, it's a luxury. Always has
been a luxury, you know, the best thing. You know, Like,
for instance, it was everything I've done I learned because
of Bruce Fairburn and because of you know, how he worked.

(46:00):
I learned the fact that you do pre production. Pre
production is key no matter what. All the all the
album albums that I've done has always been that, or
there's a demo to go from. Some people do demos
and then you can just go from there. But for
the most part, you always want to do pre production
before you go into the studio. And what is your
pre production look like? Well, it's changed because everybody, like

(46:25):
I said, now on computers, people are kind of making demos,
you know, so you can really just work with the
demo and go from there. Uh. But you know, you
just you talk. For instance, it's like with bands in particular,
you know, and it was like with Metallica, they never
played in the same room when they made a record.

(46:47):
So to me, I said, but that's how I make records.
And I explained to him, I said, well, that's because
you never know if you change the beat in the
in the verse or something, change it later, you know,
so you've got to get a you gotta get a
kind of like, uh, you got to get an idea

(47:08):
of what's going on. And you know, the tempo means
so much difference, makes so much difference, like one beat
to find the pocket where you know, like the Black
album is a pocket album. All the fields are like
we worked on it to find the right tempo, and
we stayed there, you know, so that that was it,
and so we spent time. And that's that's the difference.

(47:31):
You go in when you know you've got it in shape,
you've got the arrangement right, and you've looked at what
the base is doing with the kick. You just go
through everything. And you do that in the room and
you can just make a cassette with one microphone and
that's fine to kind of work until you get into
the studio. So that's what we did, you know, and

(47:52):
I do that. How much reproduction did you do for
the Black Album? I was probably there for two weeks,
you know, and we went through every song, and you know,
they were warming up to me and me warming up
to them. You know. I think the first time we
had lunch, I was in one room and they were

(48:12):
in the other room type thing. By the end we
were all in the same room. They were you know,
you know, with a band like that, they were so intense,
you know, and they were so they had that club,
the Metallica club that they were in. It was hard
to get into the club. It took a long time.

(48:33):
And how long did it take to actually record the record?
Fourteen fifteen months? And how did you get the gig?
They wanted me to mix the record because they really
liked the sound of the Motley album. They didn't like Motley,
but they loved the Doctor Field Good album the sonically

(48:54):
and they so they came up to see me in
Vancouver and they brought cassettes of the songs and they played,
you know, they played the material and it did not
sound like the Justice album, which I knew. And actually
just so you know that that just before that, I

(49:14):
saw Metallica because Sonic Temple, I did the Sonic Temple
album and the cult warmed up on this, uh Justice tour,
so I stayed and watched Metallic and I went, their
records don't sound anything like they sound live. They were
so big and powerful, so I made a mental note.
Any Anyway, they they said they loved the sound of

(49:38):
the bigness and the weight of the the Molly Crue album.
So they came up to Vancouver. You had a meeting,
and when I heard the songs, it's like, you know,
Saba true was to me was like the Levy Breaks.
It had that feel. It was there, Sam Man was there,
all the fields were there, um and so basically we

(49:59):
started talking and a couple of things happened that we're
pretty funny. Uh. We had dinner that night and I
could see that they were looking at the bus boy
that was looking at the table right. He finally came
over and he said, excuse me, are you Bob Rock?
Can I get my your autograph? I didn't ask them
for and they they thought that was hilarious. They thought

(50:24):
that was hilarious. So that was breaking the ice. They
had no idea, the guy had no idea who they were, right,
but because of the pail is it was. It was
pretty funny. So there was the moments that basically we
just talked about music, and that didn't hear from them,
and all of a sudden they said, come on and
let's get going. There you go. Did you have any

(50:45):
idea the album would be an interstand Man would be
as big as they ultimately were. No, No, not at all.
When I said conceptualizing albums, I mean really, the thing
is is what we just saw did It's like, because
you know, the basic tracks and the fields were there.
A lot of people think I changed that, and I didn't.

(51:07):
It was always there. If you listen to the demos
that have been released, the songs are there. But what
I did is I changed basically the approach of how
to record. Okay, so um, you know, it took a
while to get to get going and then it just
became work, which is like we we decided that we

(51:28):
weren't going to compromise in any way, shape or form
on anything. So the drums sound took three weeks. You know,
the bass sound like James's guitar. We built a room
specially for to get this sound that you know, I
couldn't figure out. We built a room to have this
certain resonance, which is part of the sound. Everything was.

(51:52):
There was no compromise on what they wanted, and I
was there as the guy that kind of went, well,
I know how to sort of do this. Let's worked
together and do it. So that's I was the guy
that kind of like helped them learn how to record
what they wanted because of the experience that I had.
So you know, uh, that's why it took along, and

(52:15):
that's that's what we did. So in the end, we're
so tired of each other that we said we went
and had a bottle of wine. After Randy stab and
James and Lars we finished mastering and we're just like,
it's been fun, don't call me, never want to see
you again. And we all walked our separate ways, you know.

(52:37):
And all of a sudden, I was playing my band
was playing at Club Soda and Vancouver. It came on.
I went, wow, people kind of like this. Who knew? Okay?
So how did uh peale Is morph into rock and Hide? Well,
we did a record that wasn't us that the record

(52:58):
company made us use a producer that we really didn't
want to use. I'm not going to name names, but
and it kind of ruined the band. And so Paul
and I, who basically wrote all the songs and did
it pretty much everything. We reformed it and we got
signed to E M I in England for Rock and Hide,

(53:18):
so it just became the two of us. Yeah, and
we kind of used some of the guys in the
Palis as the band. Yeah. So tell me about morphing
from being a player to being a studio guy. The
thing with the Pale is in my career as a
writer and a guitar player kind of were was running
parallel with learning how to make records. So and what

(53:42):
I realized and and it just to go back with
all the guys that I loved, Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton
and Jimmy Page, I could never play like them. So
I found this guy that wasn't like that him and
his name was Pete town It. And Pete Townsend was
a songwriter and he played rhythm guitar that I just

(54:09):
got chivers talking about it because I've met and I
told him that changed everything for me because I realized
I didn't have to be a ship hot lead player.
I just had to play rhythm like Pete Townsend. Okay,
So that was the guy that made me decide that
I was more about the record and writing and sounds

(54:33):
and being Pete Townsend and Keith Richards who was one
of the greatest rhythm players as well. Okay does great
lead work, so does Pete Townsend. But there you know
what I mean. So that was absolutely Pete was in
my brain when you were talking about was so funny
you mentioned it. Yeah, No, that is seeing and you know,

(54:54):
like the Who were just so big for me as well,
because that's you know it and you know, we started
with I can see for miles and just like my
generation and stuff. And I had dinner with Shell. Tell me,
by the way, that's something I haven't done. No, it
was I had dinner with him after I did a
thing at south By Southwest the panel. I only went

(55:15):
because he was on the panel and and so I
I kind of met him over the video or whatever.
But this guy, Mike Jacobs set it up and I
had dinner with him. I just like I was in
heaven talking about the Who. He had just an amazing guy. Anyway,
So the Who, what did he tell you about making
those records? Well, he you know, he said how he

(55:40):
got the gig, you know, and he said he was
in he was an engineer in l a. He's American.
He went to England on holiday and we just went.
He had a friend at Decoration Records in London and
he and he said, he was just hanging around the
Decca office and this guy came in with an Asceta
Ray Davies and he had an ascetate which is basically

(56:03):
a demo, and nobody wanted to hear it, so he said,
I'll listen to it. He listened to it and he says,
I want to record you. That's how he got the
Kinks gig by being there, just by luck. He recorded
that Pete Townsend heard you know, you really got me.

(56:25):
I want Shell tell me? And Shell tell Me changed
the way the who recorded because Shell, being American, he
used multiple mics okay, and most of the English engineers
were using just three or four mikes on drums. Shell
tell Me set up all these mics with Keith moon
and on the guitar and they were in heaven and
that's my generation and I'm going like, I was just

(56:49):
like this is amazing. Yeah, you know, and we just
had the greatest time talking about you know, because his
career just lasted too. I think Waterloo Sunset with the
Kinks or whatever, and then they moved on. But his
career and what he did for kind of rock music

(57:10):
is just unbelievable, the impact he had with that kind
of recording, etcetera. All on the fact that he went
to England for a vacation, he stayed in London. An
American guy. So going back to your career, how do
you decide to go get off the stage and switch
sides in the studio Bruce Allen. Bruce Allen managed the

(57:35):
Paolas and and Bruce says, because I was the engineer
with Loverboy and Prism, I've I knew Bruce like America.
The day I got my job at Little Mountain, was
sitting in the waiting room and all of a sudden
the doors December six six the door swung open and

(57:56):
this guy with a full length for coat, Oh, open
the door and just like walk by me and beat
ore in the studio and I went to the reception
who's that And she said that's Bruce Allen and I
went and it never That guy ended up managing me

(58:16):
and he's my closest friend to this day. That's over
forty years Bruce Allen has been in my life. But
Bruce told me I did a rock and high gig
at the tour and he said rock. He says, you
gotta stop doing this. Okay, you're a producer. You're you're

(58:37):
a producer. You've got to be a producer. Let me
manage you as a producer. And he says, I'm not
going to tell him. I'll tell you what he said. Yes,
I will tell you said. He says, you got to
lose the dumb broths and you got to just listen
to me, and you're gonna make some money. And actually
the thing he that he did, the first thing he did,

(58:58):
I had met my wife just after that, Angie, So
I lost the dumb broads and got a great woman.
She actually she got me. But uh. And then Bruce
Um with Slippery when wet Um Bruce Fevern had a deal.
He said, just before that, we've done Honeymoon Sweet. He says,

(59:19):
the next record, you're going to get a point on
the record. The next record was Slippery. He didn't give
me the point. Okay, okay, the next So the next
record I did was Aerosmith Permanent Vacation, and I was
making for Slippery. I made ten thousand Canadian, which is

(59:40):
American engineers were getting twenty American Okay. So on Permianity Vacation,
Bruce Feveryon says, we can't afford to give you ten thousand.
We can only give you eight. And then I went,
this is not gonna be my future. Okay. So after
that I went on to I left the Permanent I

(01:00:01):
didn't mix the Permanent Vacation record. I was on tour
with Rock and Hide. I had to go on tour,
and at the end of that tour, Bruce says, I
told her the story. The next record. I got to
Dramba Jovi wanted to Bruce Fevert and I to do
the New Jersey record. Bruce Allen said, Rock ain't doing it.
John says, but I really want Rock to do it.

(01:00:24):
Bruce got me paid the New Jersey album on one
point on ten million Rockords, ten million records. Cash Angie
and I about our first house. That's Bruce Allen. Okay.
I don't know if you could say all that, but
that is Bruce Allen. He changed my life. And he's
the guy that said be a producer, that's what you're

(01:00:45):
good at, and you know, the rest is history. He's
the reason why you know Metallica. You know, we had
Louis made the decision. He helped put that together. You know,
he's like like said my best friend, and uh yeah huge. Okay, okay,

(01:01:06):
So but you talked at some point playing club Soda.
When did you literally stopped playing with the band erws
that really never died After Rock and Hide, I had
while I was doing the Black album, actually did a
rock album, Rockhead. And it was because just because I

(01:01:27):
was in l A a lot and I started writing
music and for whatever reason, I want to make a
rock album. I didn't want to be like a new
wave guy. So I made a rock album and I
was you know, so I made a rock album, and
so I ended up touring Europe. We opened up for
bon Jovi. Okay, did European tour, and I realized that

(01:01:49):
that I should just produce. I just couldn't deal with
that anymore. I couldn't deal with because you know, it
was like, uh, you know, all the US all they
wanted to talk about what was Metallica because the Black
Album came out right and I went, this is this
is just not me. So I ended up making records,
which I love doing. So there you go. And so

(01:02:10):
what did you learn from Bruce Fearburn. I learned Bruce
is really his pluses were, uh, it took me a
while to learn. His greatest thing was like he didn't
really he was never a fan of bands, like in
other words, he didn't really like to me, Aerosmith walked

(01:02:34):
in the room and and it was like I was
a fan. I mean, I was like Joe, Barry, Steven Tyler,
They're in front of me. I'm in the stud there
in front of me, and it meant nothing to Bruce.
They were just a band. So he could say, like,
we're in the middle of a take, and he always
went for dinner at five o'clock. If we're in the
middle of the take, he'd say, I'm going for dinner,

(01:02:55):
he'd leave. And so that he had control with those guys. Okay,
he had ultimate control with over Stephen and Joe and
the band. Okay, that kind of thing. In other words,
his scheduling was amazing, and he made them work, and
he made them work hard. That's what he was great.

(01:03:15):
And he had this outside because he wasn't. He did
his homework on Aerosmith and he brought the best parts
to the the project, much like bon Jovi. You know,
he recognized what we had, this way of working, the
two of us, and and so he taught me a lot.
What he taught me is as he actually gave me

(01:03:37):
my first job. Besides the job at the studio, The
first guy to believe in me was Bruce Fairburn. He
asked me to do the Prism album. And he asked
me because he wanted to change up and he had
heard this the kind of the punk stuff that I
had done and it was raw. So he hired me.
So he gave me a shot. He kind of started

(01:03:58):
my career and it was he managed by Bruce in
the end, but he he was prison, was managed by Bruce.
Bruce Fabrin was in prison, and Jim Valence was in
prison and in an earlier band that turned into prison.

(01:04:19):
So that's why they wrote the songs in the Prism album.
So it's all tied in. Well, I guess what I'm
asking is if Bruce managed Bruce and you, how come
you couldn't get the point? Uh, he wasn't managing Bruce
at the time. He managed Bruce later. Okay, so uh

(01:04:40):
do you know Slippery win Wet is going to be
Slippery Win wet. What do you mean when did we know?
I mean, you're making that record, an iconic record by far,
the best bon Jovie record. You know, wanted Dead or Alive?
First time I heard that, never mind Living on a
Prayer and you give love a bad Did you say,

(01:05:00):
holy fuck, we have something here, Fabride and I. At
the end of that, we finished, the benches left and
we were in the control room and we're kind of
going like, hopefully this is gonna go gold, so we
get another gig. And we knew and we thought Living
on a Prayer was probably you never want to say,

(01:05:21):
there's this thing. You never want to say that's a hit,
because it always seems to you never go that way.
But we knew Leving on a Prayer was really strong.
But we had no idea. I mean that when that
was triple platinum in like three months, we had no idea.
So let's say, uh, you realize you have an eleven

(01:05:44):
in a song whatever. If you realize that, whether it
be in pre production or recording, does that steward away
from being eleven? What I mean is, do you become
so self conscious that you can't nail it? Then? No, no,
not not really because this is the Beauty of Bruce Fabron.
That was a six week album. Okay, that was there's

(01:06:07):
only one guitar track, one keyboard track, all caught live.
I I mixed it in a week, the whole record,
you know, and it was like so there was no
time to even think about it. You you're just I
was just doing my job. I was learning. You see,
this is the whole thing all through that we've talked about,

(01:06:29):
and there's there's more. I'm still learning, Bob. I'm still
being schooled. Van Morrison schooled me to death, you know
when I worked with him. You know, constantly I'm learning,
And through all of that I was learning. So I
never ever thought that it was eleven and I'm scared
to do it. I was just trying to do the best, okay,

(01:06:50):
but I was really referring to now when you are
the producer. Uh so, what do you mean solo king back.
I'll give you an example of my own life. If
I'm writing something and I realize it's incredible, it's just
something fires in my brain, then it ends up not
being incredible because I'm self conscious. Now the nature of

(01:07:12):
writing the way I do it, You're write it it's done.
A song is a whole thing, usually have pre production, etcetera.
So do you say, ever when something is really phenomenal,
you don't want to fuck it up? But are you
so self conscious that it's hard to get it right? Well?

(01:07:34):
As a producer, the thing the thing is is, here's
I think. What I learned from Bruce Fairburn and just
making records for a long time is I don't stop
trying to make something great until the artist says, until
the artist is happy, not even the record company. If

(01:07:54):
the artist says this is the best I can be,
and I say, this is the best I can be,
It's done, and I'm okay with it. I mean, I
can listen to every record I've done, and I know
all the flaws. I even know all the punches for
on Slippery that I made. I can still hear the punches.
I hear all the flaws. But now I listened to

(01:08:16):
it as a whole, and I'm going like, as a whole,
it's great. You can always like it's that thing. As
I was telling about Dexter and Ritchie with the time
off they're listening, we can change this. You always think
you can do better, but realistically it ends up being
what I said when I said I compared my mix
to uh, working for a weekend. I'm that guy, and

(01:08:36):
this is the way it's going to end up sounding. Okay,
different band, different kind of species, whatever, uh, different people,
but it always ends up sounding the way I hear
it when it. When I go like, this sounds great
and the artist says this sounds great, We're done. I'm
okay with it. Whatever happens. Okay, how does the Black

(01:08:57):
Album change your life? Well? I live in Hawaii, okay.
But in terms of offers and things like that, well,
I mean I got a lot of offers, but I
kind of win, you see, because I'm a rock guy.

(01:09:18):
I'm not a highavy metal guy, you know. And that's
what I think, you know, the perspective, Like in other words,
if I was a fan of metallic and I was
a metal guy, wouldn't have been the same. Okay, So
I got lots of offers. There was a couple of
things and stuff. But when you do the best and

(01:09:40):
the biggest, where do you go? Do you know what
I mean? That's the way I looked at it, like
who's And besides, they were demanding and I spent fifteen
years of my life working with Metallica. So it wasn't
like I needed more work, you know what I mean

(01:10:01):
if you think about was like, if you think about
like all the stuff that we did for fifteen years,
I you know, I just did an album a year
or two as well as a matter of got a
little worrisome that I wasn't doing anything, you know, outside
of them, you know, which is why, you know, the

(01:10:21):
relationships kind of end. I had to move on and
do something I just didn't want to say, set up
the same set of drums, and you know what I mean.
It gets kind of old, absolutely, but yeah, you know,
sometimes you just got to move on. Let's go back
to the lover Boy. The sound on Turn Me Loose,
that whole record is just unbelievable. What do you remember

(01:10:45):
about that experience? It was big, like lover Boy, we're
the best band in Vancouver, and when we came to
do the album, I mean, Paul Eaton, the guitar player,
busted my balls constantly about sonics. But I learned so
much about because he walked in and he had the
guitar that he put together himself. He had this amplifier.

(01:11:07):
This is his speaker. This is my sound recorded, do
you know what I mean? Nobody before that had ever
had that, like, this is my sound, just like Brian
May has a sound, Jimmy Page has a sound, you
know what I mean. He was the first guy that
really ever put that in my head, and he had
ideas about how to do that, so he pushed me.

(01:11:29):
And everything I've done, Bob, is because the people like
the sound of the drums on Motley Crue, the sounds
on Metallica. Those guys pushed me. And when everything I've
done that's good is when guys push me, they make
me out of get me out of my comfortable zone
and make me work. Paul Dene made me work. And
a funny thing, really funny about teremy loose, right, so

(01:11:52):
turn me loose. He he kept referring to the Pat
Banatar album that Mike Chapman had done, right, going like,
we gotta sound like this. We got a sounding like that,
you know, and I'm just doing my best to get
it sound as great as as I possibly could. And um,
years later, I did a this band called Spider Okay,

(01:12:13):
and and tok Fig was in the band Okay and
he uh, he was working with Mike Chapman and the
band when they recorded they had the first lover Boy
album and they were busting the engineer's bolts sound. So
that's what I mean about that time, Like the competition thing.
It's like I was trying to get what they were

(01:12:34):
doing and they were trying to get what I had done.
It's kind of funny. How did you get the gig
with Motley Crue? Basically, DC McGhee, it was the records
that I had done, like the Kingdom Come album, the
Sonic Temple album. The bands heard that and kind of
in DC McGhee said, you know, working with bon Jovi.

(01:12:55):
You know, he just said you should have a meeting.
So I took a meeting. And when I took a
meeting with him, I was at Tommy's house and they're
all sober, you know, and this that's that was my
momlot crew thing, and you know, and I basically did
what I said. We did pre production and we worked
hard a pre production and then we went to Vancouver.

(01:13:17):
I said, I recorded a little mountain, and they knew
about a little mountain, so we didn't have a problem there.
And we just worked hard and I had a sober
band to the end. Well, you know it was a
huge step forward for them. So you keep mentioning Van Morrison,
how did you give that gig and what was that experience? Like?
He did a duets album and Michael Booble. He asked

(01:13:38):
Michael to do a duet with him, so he did Real,
Real Gone and we did a track. We recorded his
band in Birmingham live, so uh, I recorded Michael and
I had to go record Fans Vocal, so I went
to his session. He was already working on the duets
thing and I spent the day and oddly enough I
didn't record Fans Vocal because they did this trick. They said, Bob,

(01:14:00):
why don't you go for lunch Van, I'll be here
in an hour. Well I left, Van came in, sang
the vocal, and I got back and they already done it. Anyway,
I ended up spending the day and we talked and
then he heard the mix that I did, so he
phoned me and he said would you come to England
and mixed the rest of the record, and I went yeah,

(01:14:20):
and he ended up. I ended up doing a song
with George Benson. We caught a song I produced it
with Van and I mixed the whole record, and I
mean recording the song that I did with George Benson
and him. He schooled me like he's a first take guy, right,

(01:14:40):
and if you know, he won't do a second take.
So we did the track George Benson. I didn't know
the lyrics, so I said, Van, you know George sang,
but he was He wasn't saying the lyrics and stuff,
and I said, we got to do another one. He says, nah,
we can't do what I said, But you know, what
are we gonna do? I said we should do one
and he says, okay, I'll do one. So he did

(01:15:02):
one and it sounded great and George sounded great, and
Van said, uh, first one. So I had to repair
George right. And he was right because the first take
was magic and it was kind of like, you know,
just seeing him and and just like he's so on
and I had some great moments I gotta tell you
about after that. Um. So we did that song and

(01:15:26):
we mixed that, mixed the whole record, and he invited
me to go to Montserrat uh No Mantro for the
Jazz festival because he wanted to cut a song with
Dr John. So it flies me from here to Mantro
or at the jazz festival. So actually I forget the
song that we're doing. But so I go to the

(01:15:47):
stewards set everything up and it's Dr Jones band because
that's how the duets thing. It's whoever the artist is,
it's their band. They do the arrangement. So we get there,
I meet Dr John, which is a thrill. I'm there,
I get it there early, he's there. I get to
meet him. He was just like it was surreal. So
we get there and his Dr John's ranger wrote a

(01:16:10):
really complicated horn section chart okay for for actually Van's
horn guys because they didn't have the full horn section
with Dr John. So we get there, I've got Dr John,
a piano, Van singing live. We're cutting the track and
Van hates the horn that Van's guys couldn't play the
horn chart because it was too complicated. So Van says

(01:16:34):
the horn charts wrong. Max says, no, they're right. They
get into an argument. They're swearing in it. I'm in
the middle of the two of them, these two icons,
and they're swearing and they're yelling at each other and
everybody just leaves. It all blew up and that, and

(01:16:54):
it didn't get finished because of that. Literally none of
the finished never finished it. Van, just like because of
that happened, No, not gonna work on it. Everybody just
walked out. They flew me into it. Yeah, but anyway,
so that was that was a bit disappointing. But the

(01:17:17):
day before that, Van phone me and said, I want
to take you to lunch, Bob, and were like, okay.
So we went for lunch at the uh the hotel
right on the lake, just him and I and his
his day to day girl and Van and I talked
about music for three hours and it was one of

(01:17:39):
the highlights of my life. Highlights of my life. He
talked about everybody, He talked about Winnipeg, and he told
me a funny story. I don't know if you can
use it though. You can't use it because who are
we going to piss off? Well, I guess, well it's
a funny story anyway, I'll let you would say. But

(01:18:00):
he told me. I told him about Burton Comes, and
I said, Burton Coming, you know, to me was a
rock star and said he had a cape And Van said, well,
I had a cape, and I wonder what. He said. Yeah,
when I lived in l A. I got this girl
to make me these custom clothes. And you know, she
made all these you know things. And if you look

(01:18:22):
at the uh what is it the band video, the
live one, you know, um right, the filmore right, the
last one, he's wearing a jumpsuit. Right, he's anyway, he's
the best part of the movie. But so and he goes, yeah,
he said, I had a green cape. She made me
a green velvet cape. She said yeah. And he said,

(01:18:43):
you know, you know I go to the Whiskey Goog
all the time, and you know, i'd wear the cape
and my velvet clothes and and he says, I love
the whiskey, says I love the way that all the
girls danced there because they just moved their arms and
stuff like that. I said, then you gotta come to
me because they still dance like that. You gotta come,
you know, the freak dancing. Anyway, So we talked about

(01:19:06):
that and and he told many many stories, like just
talked about music and where about p J. Proby. I
didn't know about that, and we uh, he just you know,
he told me the story about that, and he talked
about Bruce because he had met Bruce and Bruce is
the biggest Van Morrison fan ever. Ah, so it was

(01:19:28):
all it was just like an amazing experience. Um. And
so I was supposed to go back to mix it
and he calls me and he said, you gotta coming
and be here Monday. And I said, well, I'm just
mixing this band called the Black Veil Brides. I didn't
tell him I'm mixing a project. I can't come Monday,
but I'll be there in a week. Click. He hung

(01:19:50):
up on me. That was it because I said I
couldn't come on Monday. That for all time, for all time,
you know, that's that is the story. I know people
work with them, etcetera. That they tell similar stories. It's
like everything's great, it's over. You don't know what happened.
That's it. But I'm I'm happy. I had the best.

(01:20:15):
Like I said, I was just in the presence of something.
One thing I did say, and this is really interesting.
So I said, you know, because I went and saw
a show Bruce and I went to see him before
we went in the studio and he played sacks right,
and then I started putting together and actually, you know
when you're mixing, you kind of have solo tracks and
and you kind of get in a kind of like

(01:20:35):
a different feel of what people are doing. And I
noticed that a lot of vans where he goes melody
melodically sounds like sacks parts, Like he's not doing singer stuff,
he's doing other stuff. And so I said, so what
came first for you? Saxophone or vocals? And I said,

(01:20:56):
because it sounds like your vocal parts are like ax parts.
He goes, he kind of smiled up, and he goes, yeah,
he started on sacks and then he went to vocals
and that's where he gets all his melodies. And to me,
that freaked me out crazy. Okay. Uh Now, ultimately Bruce
manages Michael Bubley. You end up producing and the records

(01:21:19):
are very successful. But from a disan someone would say, well,
that's not your regular wheelhouse. Bruce has known me forever.
I'm not talking about I'm not talking about getting the
gig you work with. This is the thing. So he
suggested it to Michael. Michael goes Metallica and he says,
well you, Bruce says, you don't understand. Bob started he

(01:21:41):
was recording orchestras when he was doing jingles at Little Mountain,
you know, I mean I made records a day like
same with Bob Clearmount. We all came in, Chris Lord Algae,
We all came from jingles. Like that's making a record
every day, a one minute record, you know, and you
do orchestras and stuff. He says, Bob knows how to
do it. So actually, Boo Blay played Maui and I

(01:22:03):
went to see him, and so they played this song
and the producer that he was working said it was
a ship song. And I said, it's not a ship song.
It's a good song. And I said, but you need
to rewrite the bridge. Just this is where you should go.
We ride the bridge. So Alan Chang Is m D
wrote the bridge. We went into Brian's studio. I got
great musicians Josh Freeze and guys from l A and

(01:22:25):
some Vancouver guys that I know, and we cut the
song live. We cut two songs and it was like
it was easy because we did the pre production. They
changed it. We ran a couple of times and cut
it and Michael loved it. That was everything. He only
did one song. He just you know, Michael went, okay,
I get it right. Okay, Well, today's world is mostly

(01:22:49):
a hip hop pop world. You certainly Boo Blaze in
his own lane and rock doesn't have the presence. What
do you think about today's scene and to what degree
does it intersect with your career and out yikes? What
what inspires me constantly is like if you if you
pick out just a song that really hits you, like

(01:23:10):
Circles by post Malone. Okay, so out of the Blue
that comes on and I went, that's a great record. Okay,
that's not a rock record, rock record, that's kind of
like it's just a great song. The lyrics are great,

(01:23:31):
that feels great. That's a great song. That's what I
can still do if that happens. I'm not going to
go into the rap thing because I don't know it.
But I can still make great records with people that
want to make records like that. And the great thing
about the Post Malone is there's room musicians. You know,
it's just not all you know what I mean. There's guitars,

(01:23:52):
there's vocals, and you can hear the work that was
put into it. That's a great record that keeps me inspired.
Billie Eilish too, same thing. You hear the craft, how
things people are making great things. You know, what's the
The girl put out the record that's very weird. What's
her name, uh, Fiona Apple? Yes, listen to the record.

(01:24:17):
There's four four tracks that are just great. You know,
it's still inspire. I don't know if I could do that,
but sure, so that's what keeps me interested as long
as I'm interested, you know, um, yeah, I mean people Still.
The thing is is that I think still people appreciate

(01:24:42):
proper recording. And that may sound really strange, but there's
a lot of good recordings that get away, like you know, um,
there's a lot of raw recordings that get away because
it's a great song. But still people really appreciate like
good sonics and good recording and not many people know
how to do it. So maybe there's a place for me. Okay,

(01:25:05):
but uh, I'll use the vernacular. Does your dick still
get hard? Are you still as excited? Because certainly once
you pass sixty ones, perspective tends to change, and you know,
you certainly can nail it and there you know, certain
people work forever in this business, But how do you

(01:25:25):
get key and you get as excited as it used
to be? And how do you get excited? I worked
with the band called class Less Act and I did
it basically for nothing, and I work with them and
they were so excited about having great sounds and their

(01:25:46):
their songs being arranged, and I got excited. So yes,
I still get excited about it. I just love making
records and until I can't, I'm going to keep doing it.
And to what degree are you a student of the game?
What I mean by that is you wake up early,
you work in the studio. Are you someone who is

(01:26:08):
literally going on the services Spotify, whatever and checking all
the new stuff? Do you listen to old stuff? You know?
To what degree? You obviously know the limited number of mixers.
But if we were to go through the hit records
of today, whatever genre, are you keeping up with that
or not? Basically the stuff that rises the surface in

(01:26:28):
my realm so to speak? Yeah, I mean I buy iTunes.
I still buy you know whatever, If I hear something,
I'll buy it. I support musicians, I still do. That
is insane as that sounds, but um, yeah, people are
still making great records. I just heard the New Killers single,

(01:26:51):
their New Killers single. I like it. You could see
that they did it. I'm asking a slightly different question,
which is how do you find it? You gotta look.
It's like shopping, you know that when I started when
when I bought the m C five album Kick Out
the Jams at Hudson's Bay in Victoria, never heard the band.

(01:27:11):
Bought it because I liked the album cover, right, because
I was searching for music. Okay, I was there to
buy led Zeppelin one in truth. But I went to
Hudson's Bay and I was going through records, never heard
of the m C five. I bought it because they
had American flags draped on their amplifiers, and I thought
that is cool. Ship bought the record. I went to school.

(01:27:35):
My band learned out Kicked Out with the Jams, right.
We played it at a sow cop and we got
banned from the school. That was when it came out. Okay,
so right now I still search for inspiration, I really do.
I see. You gotta search it out, yeah, because you
can't hear it on the radio drilling down. Can you

(01:27:57):
tell us a little about your technique and how you
sort Well, I've got kids, Okay, that definitely helps you know, um,
you know, like when you're in at the warehouse or
when you're in Los Angeles. I listened to the radio.
I listened to people tell me about stuff, you know,
when I'm working, Like it's less of it now. I'm

(01:28:18):
not hearing so much right now. It's mainly from my
kids or somebody will saying, listen to this um or.
I searched it out the Killers. I always buy The
Killers because I like them, and I'm glad that they
put out a record and the first single sounds great
to me, and Lindsey Buckingham's on it, so I'm you know,
I'm in there just for that, you know. So like

(01:28:38):
I said, you gotta search, you've gotta do the work.
And if you do the work and people that if
you look at all the music that's released, it's hard
to find something that nobody knows about. That's what worries me,
because there isn't there isn't that that thing that used
to be. There's not the great guys that developed people like.

(01:29:00):
We don't have the John Hammonds, we don't have ahm it.
We don't have you know, those guys helping us discover,
you know, so we're kind of on our own I
was just gonna say, by the way, I think Rick
Rubin is a great record man. I think he stands
with Jon Hammond and Ahmad and stuff. I really believe

(01:29:22):
that's the guy. He is. Well, he makes records in
a in a completely different way from most people. It's
all very conceptual, trying to inspire the brains of the
people exactly. And but I think that's he's so good
at that. He's a great music guy like John Hammond,
like he's one of the greats, Clive Davis and stuff.

(01:29:42):
He's got vision and stuff. I thought i'd say that
to you because I put him in that category. I
admire the guy. Did Did you watch the Beastie Boys movie?
I did, and I saw that and I was shocked.
I knew sort of about that, but that that whole
thing what they did is just so bad, right, It's

(01:30:03):
just that that's the business. It's cutthroat, man, But it's
also funny, you know, knowing George dr Culius, etcetera. The
transition of Rick Rubin to the guru, you know, the
quiet guy whatever it's opposed in that movie. He's the
guy who's right up front promoting, etcetera. I know, well,
people change. Yeah, anyway, listen hopefully people do tanche well.

(01:30:27):
Thanks so much for taking time out of your creative day, Bob.
Always great to see you and you Bob, love love
what you do, keep doing it, keep telling the truth.
Thank you, Thanks so much. Til next time. This is
Bob left sense fo

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Host

Bob Lefsetz

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Bob Rock