Bonnie Raitt

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.
My guest is the one and only Bonnie Rate who's
on tour and support of a new album. Just like that, Bonnie,
good to have you on the podcast. Nice to be
with you, Bob. So what inspired you to cut this album? Oh?
I cut my records so I have some new songs

(00:30):
to play on the road. That's always the pretty much
the only reason I do it. And I love having
new stuff to play, and my fans probably enjoy it too.
And uh, it's always daunting to not repeat yourself. Each
record has another batch of love gone astray and how
are you going to say something new after that many records?

(00:50):
But I managed to when I get the songs compiled
and I hit in the studio. But it's always got
kind of a five year ahead of me plan of
you know, holding the band in the crew and which
halls were going to book a year in advance. And
that was interrupted by COVID, of course, but the plan
was still, you know, every after the two year tour
to promote the record, that's about a year to prepare

(01:12):
another one and a year to make it and get
ready for the the big tour in another two years,
so it's kind of been the same since nineteen one.
And you mentioned love going a straight? Is that something,
because that's what music normally is. Is that your life?
Why do you characterize it was a little tongue in

(01:33):
cheek about you know, if everybody got along, I wouldn't
have anything to sing about. You know. The the kind
of songs I sing about mostly are love stories of
different aspects of love, you know, betrayal or longing or
there you go again or you know, why did you
do it? Whatever? It's just you know, some of the

(01:54):
songs like one that you love not the only one.
Mr Brady's tune um is about a true love song.
You know, that's a beautiful I do rarely. There's only
cut about two or two songs about love that are
really when it's working out? Okay. People learn from the
songs you sing. Did you learn anything? A lot of

(02:14):
the songs you didn't write, and the more you perform them,
the insights come to you relative to love in life. Absolutely.
I I picked the songs because they have something to
say to me that I need to hear, and I
when I sing it, the message comes through. And um,
you know, I hope that fans find something worthwhile in it.

(02:34):
You know I seemed to be striking a chord, or
I probably wouldn't get the opportunity to make another record,
or it would fail, and then I would hang it
up and stay home. Um. I think that the mix
of songwriters that I picked from are some of my
favorite artists anyway, their whole repertoire. But when I find

(02:54):
a song, I know it's right for me and it's
got something to say for me at the time. And
what is the process or people always sending you demos
or you searching or you just start doing it when
you start a project, I'm always on the hunt. Um.
I always go back in my own library of things

(03:15):
that I artists that I love, and go back and
revisit Keith Richard's first solo albums, you know, Bruce Hornsby's
third album, Jackson Brown. You know there there's there's artists
that are friends of mine that I love, Little Feet
and people like that John Hyatt that I just listened
to for pleasure. But I'm also cocking an ear for
giving a second listen to some of the the songs

(03:36):
that have kind of been tucked away in my back
pocket that I might end up cutting. But for many,
many years, probably forty years, I listened to most, if
not all, of the unsolicited cassettes that people sent me. Um.
Then they became CDs and and all those years I'd
never found one song I could do. So I I
gave myself a break after forty years to say, you, oh,

(04:00):
I think you can probably just wait for your friends
to send your songs. Are you so? I call up
my pals and say, who have you been listening to?
And I listened to. I do a lot of research.
I read a lot of reviews. I listened to a
lot of um interesting things that people turned me onto
and the journalist turned me onto him. It's a constant hunt.
So how did you meet Lowell? George? Um, I don't know,

(04:23):
I don't. I think you're at one generation younger than me,
or at least. But there was a band out of
l A called Fanny, which was the first all female
band that could really play well, oh you did there
you go? So Fanny we're friends of mine. I think
we were all on warners. I don't even know if

(04:45):
they were on warners that want to they were, Yeah,
that's where I met them because we're you know, Alan
Hussain and the Meters and James and Ryan Randy were
all new, you know. When I first joined the label,
it was because of the roster that they had, and
I've became really good friends with June Millington and the band.
And I used to stay at Hetty Lamar's old house

(05:06):
up from the Chateau Marmont, a little bit slower. They had,
they rented, they rented, They rented Hetty Lamar's old house
right up from the iconic Chateau Marmont above Sunset stripped
down from the rock Sy and the Tower Records, And
when I came out from Cambridge, I would stay with them.

(05:27):
And that's when I heard Little Feet second album and
I went crazy. And June Millington introduced me to Little
George And was there an instant connection? How did you
ultimately form the bond and go on the road and
make music recorded music together? Absolutely instant connection. He was
a fan of mine, I was a fan of his.

(05:48):
We both couldn't believe we were from l A. But
that was the same with Ray Couter. You know, it's
sort of the kind of uh, kind of shallow surf
music scene that was in my junior high school all
of a sudden turned into you know, these super cool
roots music people, and uh, I just you know, Lowell
was the one who turned me onto how to keep
my slide note holding longer. He gave me this mx

(06:11):
R compressor pedal and changed my whole slide style. So
that was a fantastic thing. But I mean, along with
Hendrix and Stevie ray Vaughan, I think Lowell was one
of the greatest guitar players that's ever lived. Okay, getting
to the third album, taking my time, I feel the
same on the second side. Who plays the solo? You

(06:32):
were Lowell? Lowell plays the solo. That's what I thought,
But then I was to say, it's so the great
thing about Lowell is he knew how to be subtle
and leave things out, which in a world of obviousness
is very rare. Yes, I completely agree. And and you know,
there would be times when he was in the studio

(06:53):
and just overlaying many many slide parts, almost like an arranger,
you know, putting more lines and string lines over his
own songs, and sometimes it would get crowded. But by
the time I came out as a record he did.
He was a pretty He was pretty good at being
tasteful with his edits and not over not over sweetening
the pot. Okay. He was involved in the production of

(07:16):
Taking My Time, and then he was not. What went
on there, Uh, that was a kind of a personal
thing that happened with us. Um. He also wanted to
play slide on more songs than I wanted him to.
I said, hey, you know, I love the way you play,
but you gotta make some room for me here. And uh,
but it was more like a personal thing that was

(07:37):
between us. And I asked my friend John Hall from
Orleans to come out and Taj to come down. And
Taj and John had we been in a band together.
John was one of the guitar players when John Simon
was producing the Big Tuba Band with Taj and John
Hall lived in Woodstock and played on my second album,
so that they both agreed to come in and help

(07:59):
finish the record. Heard okay. Even to this day high
profile artists mostly men. What was it like back in
the early seventies being the only woman in the room.
In many cases, it seemed pretty standard. I mean, there
was a lot of people that I admired you know

(08:21):
Joan Baez and Judy Collins and Odetta and you know
Peter Paul Mary. There was a lot of women that
were always part of making records and they picked their
material and worked with their partner producer, and um, I
never experienced any sexism that way or or you know
maybe and also because I was a musician, and then

(08:43):
those women are musicians as well. But because I was
a guitar player, um I got some respect at at
an age that would probably be surprising, you know, not
for a guy to get it twenty one, but for
a woman to get to play pretty good blues guitar.
It got my foot in the door. That's why I
got my deal, I think. And then, but men always

(09:05):
have romance on their mind, and I think that's reducing
people to that and women have the same exact you know.
Romance is one of the things on both of our
minds and the people in between as well. Love is
just part of the human condition. But when you work
in an office with someone or on tour or in
the studio, relationships happen, as we know. But if you're famous,

(09:29):
then they get written about more. And as you become famous,
do you have to fend off more approaches the guys
might have to fend off my approaches. No, I was
pretty pretty steady. I mean, it just wasn't. I didn't.
I didn't see any difference in my world between a

(09:49):
chemical you know, chemistry attraction to you know, someone in
the group that you're working with. Is wasn't any different
than from being in college. You know. It's just one
of those things. Um, you have to be careful in
any shipboard romance when you're out on tour. If you're
involved with someone in the band and it doesn't work
out and you're still going to be on tour for
the rest of the year, that's a really tricky, tricky situation,

(10:12):
just like it is in an office romance. You know,
they it's frowned upon, but you can't stop it. Okay,
you went to Radcliffe for a year, No, it was
I went to college at Harvard. Radcliffe doesn't have any classes.
So the women's part of Harvard University is Harvard Radcliffe.
Now it's completely combined. But um, I think the ratio

(10:35):
is four to one guys to women. I don't know
what it is anymore, but I went for a couple
of years, So what did your parents say when you
dropped out to make music. I took a semester off
to hang out with the older blues guys that I loved,
and they thought that was great, and um, they just said,
you know, you're gonna have to support yourself if you're
dropping out, then you get to get a job. And

(10:57):
I got to travel around all these blues festival with
with Dick Waterman and hang out with Big Bertha cut
Up and Robert Pete Williams and Buddy Guy in Junior
Wells and Son House and Fred McDowell. It was an
education and an opportunity I knew I would never have again,
and I could always go back to school. And I
told that to the college admissions folks. They said, come
back when you're ready. So I went back for a

(11:19):
year and started to play in folk clubs, um just
to make some extra money or during my time off.
And next thing I knew, I started getting asked back
and I had some You know, my boyfriend was a
booking agent, so he put me on the show with
Cat Stevens and opening for James Taylor and some blues people.
And it was kind of a hobby that was a

(11:40):
sideline for me until all of a sudden, Nat Weiss
with you know, he said to me, do you want
to You know, there's some interest in signing you with
the label, And I said, if you, if you can
get somebody to give me complete artistic control, I'll leave
college and make and make a record. And he did so. Ever,

(12:00):
any regrets that you didn't finish, not one, Because as
a social activist, which was what my chosen field was,
I knew that being a musician I could raise money
and more attention for the causes that I cared about,
which happened right away in the Women's movement and the
Vietnam War. I mean I was doing big, giant rallies

(12:21):
on Boston Common by the time, you know, making much
more of an impact that I could have if I
had joined the Peace Corps. And other than being in Cambridge,
did you actually learn anything in classes or being in
the dorm, or being amongst the student population, or in
retrospect that just got you into a place where you

(12:42):
could get started on your musical career. Couldn't have cared
less about starting a music career. I was absolutely loving
majoring in African studies and social relations. I've always loved school.
I always wanted to work for the American Front Service Committee,
and I was couldn't get enough of classes. And the
cool thing about Harvard was you could take senior level.

(13:04):
You know what, in regular regular a lot of colleges
you have to take a survey course for freshman year
and then sophomore year, and then you can't really specialize
in your master until the last couple of years. And
with Harvard you could actually mix it up however you want,
as long as you got a year of humanities and
social science and you know, by the end of the

(13:24):
four years so I got. I dove right into my
African studies and social relations, you know, serious focus. And
I love being in school. And you know, they've always
said if I want to come back. I got the
Harvard Arts Medal a few years ago, and they said,
you can come back and finished if you want. But
I don't think it held me back to not have
a degree. Okay, So you grew up in l A.

(13:47):
We're in l A. I was right in the hills
above Studio City, and then I spent every summer in
the Adirondacks while my dad was doing summer stock. So
I even though I would say that I was raised
in l A. At my formative important part of my
influences were all East coast, up East coast kids that
went up to the Adirondics at my Quaker camp. And

(14:12):
were you formed by what was going on the ideas
of the camp or was this how you were brought
up with your family and these ideas well, we were
a Quaker, you know, my folks converted to being um
peace activists and Quakers and kind of rejecting the more
formalized constriction of what religiosity and churches and formal religions brought.

(14:36):
So they were much more into you know, the Quaker
meeting where you're your center in nobody's higher than someone else.
Anyone can stand up and share um act, social activism,
being of service. I just, you know, that's the ethos
that I was raised, and I was really proud of it,
and I hung out with a lot of other Quaker
families um and then in my summertime, my family's friends

(14:59):
started a Quaker camp which was very international and not
focused on competitive sports or you know, it was just
a lot of you know, humanitarian humanism, international counselors and campers.
So it was really a great breeding ground for my
values in my music. And that's where the folk music counselors,

(15:21):
you know, the counselor for folk music at that camp
when I was ten, made a huge influence on me.
And all those college kids were swept up in the
folk revival of the early sixties. Well, I certainly remember
here and blowing in the wind at summer camp and
other songs we sit around. What were the songs that
they were bringing to the camp that you were hearing
and learning. Well, I was eight or nine, and I

(15:44):
loved Odetta's records. I loved Joan Bayez. I taught myself
to play guitar based on um, those two records. And
then I loved Peter Paul and Mary and you know
all the folk music artists. And I read sing Out
every month and joined at Snick and Core. You know,
I was out in l A. But I couldn't wait
to be a beat nick and get to college. I

(16:04):
wish I could have just left and you know, at
thirteen and put on a turtleneck and moved to Greenwich Village.
But um, what I got from that was at times
they are changing. That that album of Bob Dylan's really
changed my life, even though I was you know, Pete
seeger Fan and Joan Bayez and our family marched in
peace marches, and you know, we were very much involved

(16:25):
in the civil rights movement as well. The musical connection
of folk music that Bob Dylan's albums when he became
especially Times They're Changing, was seminal in my life. And
then Joan Bayez's activism I think was a great model
for me as well. Okay, I think that was the
third album. The first album was mostly cover second was

(16:47):
Free Room with a lot of songs other people covered.
When did you actually get into Dylan with that third
album where he was always on the scene and you
were aware of him? You know? I I you know,
as as a twelve year old, I didn't have any
income to go buy records or a car to go
drive to the store. But I um, I got at camp.
I listened to my counselor's record so I was aware

(17:07):
of the first two albums, but I saved my money
and bought the Times They're Changing album. Okay, and you
went to high school in l A. Too. I went
to one year of high school and then I went
to a Quaker Boarding School in Poughkeepsie the last two
years of high school because my dad got a new
Broadway show and he was going to be trying it

(17:28):
out on the road for a year. So as my
brothers and I scattered to the winds and I couldn't
wait to go do what the school version of what
my summer camp had been. So the last two years
were on the Hudson River, which I loved because the
whole time I was in l A, I couldn't wait
to get back east. Well that was funny because we
were all back east trying to get to l A.
I know, isn't that funny? But um, what kind of

(17:51):
kid were you growing up? The kind who was the leader,
had a lot of friends, you know, a loner what. Well,
I came out of the box pretty extroverted. So I
was the song leader at our social camp and you know,
at our club, and I was in with the hip kids,
and I was in with the intellectual kids as well.

(18:13):
And I kind of floated around, um in in different circles.
So I was pretty uh fulfilled at school. I loved it.
So you're a couple of years ahead of me, but
I certainly remember the folk scene, and the folksing was

(18:34):
so big. There was even a TV show, Hoo Nanny,
And then all of a sudden we could really put
it at Dylan going electric. But it was also before
that the Beatles. Were you a fan of the British Invasion?
What did you feel about Dylan going electric? You know,
absolutely for me, Um, the folk music I read in

(18:55):
the paper in the New York Times and stuff about
Dylan being booed at Newport and all that, And you know,
to me it was distressing because I was so political
and I wanted him to be our you know, as
he rejects, as he said, he did not want to
be that person in the culture. But there were plenty
of other people picking it up. I mean, I loved
the staple singers. I loved, you know, the political songs

(19:18):
that were coming out more and more on the radio.
Not Eve of Destruction, but you know, they were the
Buffalo Springfield in the middle sixties. There was a lot
of the social movements of the seventies were being reflected
on the radio and the songs that people were covering.
And um, I I love Motown. I always loved R
and B, always loved Fats Domino and Chuck Berry. So

(19:39):
as there is in my life now there's a parallel
track of there's as much of me that loves the
Rolling Stones and old blues and Chicago blues as there
is folk music. So the two just live in me
and I love I love all of it. I loved
I loved it as a teenager too. But back then,
you know, I remember w ABC on Saturday nights, they

(19:59):
had of you know, the war between the Beatles and
the Stones. Most most of us liked both, but we
had a preference. Well, you know, you like the Stones,
you'd like the Beatles and the other British invasion bands,
Hermit's Hermits during the Pacemakers, or that was not not
for you. I love the Beatles. I love had a

(20:20):
big question, John Lennon, I love me do is there's
still a great funky record And I should have known better.
I mean they made they did a great version of
Twist and Shout, but I mean Eisley's is the King.
But the Stones definitely got my attention because I was
always always loving aren't the R and B side of pop?
You know? I loved rat Charles, I loved all the

(20:40):
R and B records, whether it was you know, way
before Aretha Franklin's Ladies Soul and Otis Redding. There was
all of those R and B Smokey Robinson and the
Miracles and the Four Tops and the Temptations, and I
just loved the R and B covers of the Beatles
and the Stones. But I remember my folks looking at
went nuts for the beetles, and then I found the

(21:02):
stones and my parents, my mom looked at the cover
of the Stones and she said she was trying to
push the beetles back on me. She could tell I
was going down a dark alley with I was just
and did you go to did you go to shows
at that area? Did you go to see the stone?
I did. I went to see the Stones at Long
Beach Arena and I stood on the fence when their

(21:23):
limo went by from the backstage area and tried to
hurl myself, you know, through the fence, but just screaming
and yelling and screaming and yelling. So I I completely
was nuts for the stones. And they went on shin
dig and brought helen Wolf, which did not was not
lost on me. And I was a very big teena
Iconina Turner fan as well in l A. So you

(21:45):
know that was I loved Less mechan and Mose Allison too.
I used to listen to the jazz station and I
just loved the funky end of pop and jazz and
soul music. Were there any advantages in being John Ray's
door or I mean and be able to get good
tickets and stuff like that, not that I found, no,

(22:06):
But I did get to see, you know, hang back
stage with him and watch him from my whole childhood
do the most incredible performances, eight shows a week, night
after night. I mean, he was His work ethic was astonishing,
but it looked to us kids like he was just
getting paid to play, you know what I mean. He
had this whole day off to wash the car and
play golf and hang out with us, and then he

(22:28):
would drive in half hour into New York and play
pajama game and come back at night. So it was
you know, we didn't get to see him in the summertime,
but because he wasn't doing summer stock, but you know,
it was worth it. He was just he he didn't
have a real job, He didn't look like a normal dad.
You know. It was just like a Mattinee idol for
a dad. They got to sing and do what he

(22:49):
loved and get paid for it, so you know, it
was the benefit of that was pride, great pride, and
I got to well. One of the side things I'll
say is Hugh Beaumont, Mr Cleaver, he used to come
to our house. Those guys were really good friends of ours,
so I had a lot of bragging rights and yeah,
and he was just he was like that at the table.

(23:12):
He was like, you know, we knew him our whole life.
He was just We just couldn't believe it. So I
would pinch myself that I was going to school. I
went steady for a minute with Jerry Lewis's second son, Ronnie,
and then there you know, Burt Lancaster's kids were in
my class, so it was fun to be a show
business kid in a show business towns. And Sammy Khan's

(23:33):
daughter Laurie was one of my best friends, so that
it was a lot of fun. And how old were
you when your parents split up? I was already in college.
I was nineteen. Now. I have a friend whose parents
split up when he was twenty six, and he would
think it didn't affect him at all. He seems to
be more affective than people. Even like my sister's kids

(23:54):
were much younger when they got her, she got divorced.
So to what to greed to the divorce affect you.
It was rough to watch my mother in so much pain.
You know, I learned a lesson about how many marriages
stay together until the kids are grown, or menopause or

(24:17):
you know later. I was able to look back through
a lens of well, they probably weren't getting along, and
it wasn't anybody's particular fault. It wasn't any of my business,
so they chose not to share it with us. But
it was rough for my mom because my dad found
someone else and and being in the public eye, he
was photographed with her a lot, and it was embarrassing

(24:37):
because my mom was kind of his quasi manager and
his music director for all those years, so she got
a raw deal, I thought. So that part was painful.
And then, like all divorce kids, you know, one Christmas
is with your mom and the next Christmas is with
your dad, and there's a little competition going on between
who's more fun to hang out with, you know, And

(24:58):
that's the way it is. With you know parents. You know,
when my dad was traveling all the time, he come
home and bring us presents and he never had to
discipline us. So my mom got the short end of
the stick. She had to be the mom and the dad.
As years went on, how did they get along? Um,
Because they didn't have to, you know, send us back

(25:19):
and forth as dual custody. We were already grown. They
were I wouldn't say friendly, but when when we all
started to get married, they were civil and nice to
each other. My mom played piano for my dad to
sing at my older brother's wedding, and that was nice.
But I would say it wasn't chilly. But when I
started it, when I won Grammys in one year, I

(25:41):
decided to break see if they would come together as
my guests, and they they had a nice time together.
It was sweet. And how many kids were in the family,
two brothers. I'm in the middle. It's funny, you know,
the older you get them into birth order, and I
see the difference, you know, between my older sister and

(26:03):
the younger sister you know in the middle, and some
of my older It was so much craziness going on.
I was sort of in my own space and are
you in the middle or in the middle. Yeah, me too,
And you know, I think being the woman too, I'm
the only girl. I'm like the peacemaker that's trying to
you know, I don't know. I think there's just a
certain I haven't read a lot of there's a lot

(26:25):
of literature about what the middle kid is like and
what what roles you play. But I think it's complicated
when the divorce happens. And you know, if you if
you know, we stopped knowing each other as kids at thirteen,
fifteen and seventeen. We weren't together for the rest of
our teen years. So but in our adulthood we got

(26:45):
to be closer friends. And to what degree did they
affect you? Were you more of a tomboy, you know,
playing sports, etcetera? Absolutely, absolutely tomboy. My heroes were, um,
I love I love Gidget because she was a girl
at a guy's world and she was tough and they

(27:08):
accepted her. And you know, my older brother I had
I adored my older brother and I had crushes on
most of his friends and they were they would put
up with me. But then when I started to turn
into a girl, you know, few best a little bit.
They were making fun of me, but I was brutal,
and you know, I wish they would hang out with

(27:28):
me some more. But you know that's what happens with
your older siblings. They just they dump you have at thirteen. Look,
I I was a tomboy and I never wanted to
be a girly girl. I always saw that women were.
I just thought they had to bend themselves into shapes
that didn't seem too natural. So I kind of looked

(27:50):
up at a to Amanda Blake because she had red hair,
but also because she owned the saloon on Gun Smoke.
She loved the sheriff, but she didn't have to marry him.
That was very important message to me. Gidget Amanda Blake
on gun Smoke and uh, you know later Shirley McClain,
and so, you know, I thought she had a great life.
I never had the wife and mother calling and have

(28:15):
you sustained the same person, or as you've gotten older,
or as any of that girly girl stuff appealing. I'm
more comfortable with my womanhood. And you know, in my
when the feminist movement happened, it was really I was
right along in there. In college I mean we all demanded,
you know, hey, we'd like to get off to you know,
maybe you could think about that, or how about doing

(28:37):
a dish. You know, there was a lot of that
even in our counterculture political movements, in the in college
and in the food co op. When I first moved
off campus, you know, there was a lot of women
asking for sexual parody and and and housework parody, you know,
and uh, and it was just part of my generation.
I can't even I can't even imagine the phil the

(29:00):
shaft Lely point of view, or you're just there to serve,
to be of service to your man. You know, I
couldn't relate. So I'm I'm a more mature version of myself,
but I still have the fourteen year old rebel in me.
And alcohol, I mean, when I went to college in Vermont,
it was the first date that gave you all rights

(29:20):
at age eighteen. So we've been we've been smoking dope.
But then it was cool to drink, and I drank plenty.
Was there any you know, you have had a lot
of alcohol, was any of it? I'm keeping up with
the guys. Oh, in my case, it was you couldn't
drink in Massachusetts till twenty one. My parents didn't really drink,

(29:42):
and I wasn't raised around it, but I immediately when
I met Dick Waterman and he was introducing me to
son House and Buddy Guy and John hanging with those
blues guys, and then the Buddy and Junior open for
the Stones, and I went along for a month on
that European tour when I was twenty and part they
and Central Man. I mean, I was diving in for

(30:03):
the first time to the professional drinkers, many of whom
the older blues guys were actually you know, borderline alcoholics.
So it was I wanted to beat my voice down
to sound older, and I wanted I picked up cigarettes
and carried a flask a gym beam around and tried
to talk tough. I mean, it seems pathetic to me

(30:24):
when I hear radio shows where I'm going, yeah, man,
you know, like I'm trying to It was embarrassing. But
you know, by the time I was about I've developed
into a sound of my voice and a persona that
was more authentic. I wasn't putting on the blues mama thing.
And you realize, yeah, well, I I knew that I

(30:48):
was pouring it on a little bit, even in my twenties.
But there's nothing more humiliating and humbling than listening to
yourself high back from a radio station interview that you know,
like someone goes, man, you guys were out of it,
and you know that that sobers you up pretty good.
So you know, I I got into drinking and the

(31:09):
lifestyle through rock and roll in blues. It was kind
of a badge of honor, you know, I mean, who
would want to stay up when you're staying up late.
You don't even get off work until midnight or one o'clock,
and that's when you're on wine, so you're not you're
not making smoothies at one o'clock in the morning. So
you know, I think it was a fun lifestyle. And
tell about my mid thirties when I got puffy and

(31:32):
I couldn't always remember what I was saying, and you know,
it just seems sloppy and I wasn't as healthy, and
I frankly, it was just the fact that Prince wanted
to make a video and I went, man, I gotta
lose some weight, because if we make a sexy video
together and I look like this, it's not gonna work,
so I will have him his his inspiration being a

(31:52):
little big pen thin to helping me. You know why.
I quit drinking just to lose weight, but I really
liked it, so I stuck with it. Light a similar thing.
I didn't quit to lose weight, But it was such
a transition that once I was over, you know, I
didn't want to go back, which was not my anticipation
when I stopped. Yeah, I didn't expect to like it.

(32:14):
I thought it was just temporary, you know, And then
I was. But when I went to a musician's meeting
in l A with a bunch of friends of mine
that I used a party with that had gotten sober,
and they were clearly not turning into moonies, and and
you know they were. They were having a hell of
a lot more fun than most of the people that
were locked jaw at a party in the middle of
the night, just chained smoking, saying stuff that was bullshit,

(32:35):
you know. And uh, they kind of guided me into it,
and it seemed to be when I learned a little
bit more about an addictive behavior, you know, addictive personality.
I went, oh, ding ding ding ding, this is me,
And how about drugs as opposed to alcohol, and they
kind of went together. You know, as of about seventy two,

(32:58):
my second album, cocaine and alcohol were just part of
the deal. I was never a pothead, but it was
certainly around. But I never got into pills. But it
was more like just the perfect combination of blow and
drinking and at this point clean, Yeah, five years everybody else.

(33:22):
You know, there are a lot of people say there,
it's like during COVID people said, oh, I'm really strict.
Well I went to this person's house thing at a party.
People say, oh, yeah, I'm clean. Yeah I smoke. I
smoked marijuana. I have a drink occasionally, but I'm clean.
So it's a different thing. Yeah, well dry, The issues
for me were alcohol and cocaine would probably be would

(33:44):
be very I would be slipping within six months. I'd
probably be back making excuses for drinking too much. You know,
it's not worth it. I know what, I know what
that can lead to. So that those were the things
that I needed to stop. And I've been grateful, you know.
One day at a time, how did you hook up
with Prince? And supposedly there was gonna be a whole
project that ultimately never saw the light of day. Yeah,

(34:06):
I didn't want to make a whole album with him.
I just wanted to do some collaboration, but only if
we met in the middle. You know. I didn't want
to like make a Prince record or have and he
certainly wasn't gonna make one of my records. So we agreed.
I mean, he he reached out when I got dropped
from Warners and said he thought that I got treated badly.
And he said, you know I have Paisley Park. Why
don't you come on over here and we'll we'll show him.

(34:28):
You know, you'll get you a better deal, will make
a better treatment on my label. I have a lot
more respect for women musicians. And that not that the
gender had anything to do with why the big scythe
came through and dropped T Bone, Burnett and R Logo
through and Man Morrison and me in the same day
on Pearl Harbor, Harvard Day, the same day that asked

(34:55):
the legal department at Warners, they just the big money
guys that took over Warner Brothers, Warner it was we
I remember Warner Elector Atlantic. They just the bean counters. Said,
these guys are not making enough. We re signed them
so they wouldn't go to another label. But they're not
bringing in any more money than to pay back this
big signing fee that we gave them. It's better to

(35:16):
just cut our losses and dump them. So how did
how did you feel about that? Oh, with a national
tour opening for Stevie ray Van pulled out from under
me and putting my entire band and not and crew
out of work after working on an album and having
it ready to come out, you know, with the artwork.
I mean, I pay for my album, So you know,

(35:37):
I was pissed. I was very piste. So I had
to I went back on the road just as a
duo because I couldn't afford to take the band. But
in the summertime, I could go out with the band.
I was still had built my following. Or I could
either open for Jimmy Buffett at a big giant place
or you know, to a pretty well, you know, three

(35:57):
or four thousand people. I could still draw in the
summer time. But you without a new album and the
advertising that it brings, it was very difficult to sustain
the level that I had built up to. So I
knew I would get another deal. It was just a
matter of which label, you know, I did I want
to do rounder records? Did I want to think about

(36:18):
another major? And I just I just luckily I can
play the guitar and tour and make make good living
just as a duo as well. Okay, before we drop it,
So you ended up going to Paisley Park. What was
the experience? Oh? Yeah, we met. We met in l A.
We you know, had a blast. We have a lot
of music that we love. He loved my first records,

(36:38):
you know, and I was we were mutual fans. And um,
I was supposed to go and do some preliminary writing
with him and come up with some stuff that was
fifty fifty and I injed I had a ski accident
and pulled the ligament off my thumb, so I had
to postpone that. So he went in the studio and
cut some songs in his key with his lyrics without

(37:01):
So by the time I finally got to Minneapolis, they
weren't in my key, and they weren't lyrics that I
wanted to sing. So, you know, I said, we're gonna
have to get together again and start over and work
on some stuff that says the things that i'd like
to say, so it was an aboarded project because he
expected he extended his European tour after I canceled my

(37:23):
summer tour to work with him, and he didn't even
call me to say he did it. So thanks a lot.
But it was your ski accident. Were you a big skier?
It's like the second lesson I ever had. And the
woman who was taking me up the bunny slope was

(37:44):
star struck and she forgot to give me the polls
that break away. So this lady came back and clipped
me and I started going down the mountain like a cartoon.
We're gonna run into a tree, so I made myself
fall and I yanked the finger picking bass note thumb.
But it ended up being what got me into a
because while I was home, I decided to quit drinking

(38:05):
in a cast I couldn't tour, So it was a
fortuitous I like to say, I was hitchhiking to a
better life. Yeah, with your thumb. Ever ski again. We
were a water ski family, so a lot of water skiing,
but I have not snow skinned. I would do it again,
but I just I think I would be much more
cautious about you know, having a breakaway poles and staying

(38:29):
on the slopes that were appropriate for me. And to
what degree are you active exercising sports today. I'm very
into a regular yoga practice, especially because I do it
on FaceTime with a girlfriend for fifteen years, three or
four days a week. And we can change the time,

(38:49):
we can change we can change the music, we can
keep talking during it, we can take breaks, we can
reschedule at the last minute. And here's my favorite word, free.
So I've done it, but we do a combination of
you know, strength work and sit ups and and yoga.
It's a it's a practice that I really love and

(39:10):
I've only been able to do it because of the
Buddy system. I highly recommend it because you know, you
can say, well, I don't feel like it, she goes, okay,
let's do it at four o'clock and then I always
do it and I always feel better. So for fifteen years,
I've done it every other day pretty much, and I
do a lot of hiking, and I try to get
outside at least a couple of hours a day, and

(39:32):
hiking in your vicinity or traveling to go hiking. Well,
when we've been on the road since April, and it's
mostly stand downtown, so it's flat, so that's not as
much fun. I used to take my bike along, but
I haven't been doing that as much lately. But where
I live in northern California. I moved to Marin County
so I could be close to hiking trails, and you know,
when I got sober, l A didn't seem as much

(39:55):
fun to me because I was kind of I used
to be up at night, and when you're up in
the daytime, l A's like Aggie and a lot of traffic.
And I grew up there, so I wanted to move
someplace that had redwoods in the ocean and mountains. You
go out with five other people at this point in time,

(40:16):
and you ever say, well, this is costing me money. Well,
it always costs money to take anybody out. But that's
what makes it fun. I mean, you're doing it to
make your music sound the way you want it to sound,
and the camaraderie of being on the road with the
band and crew is one of the reasons I like
being on the road for fifty years now. You know,
if I wasn't on the tour bus and didn't get

(40:37):
to hang with my peeps, I would have hanged it
up a long time ago. So you're the opposite of
many people who, especially in the era of streaming, they
go on the road. They don't want to. You look
forward to it. Yeah, I make new records so I
can go on the road. I love the travel I
love the traveling life. My dad loved it. I love

(40:58):
that he toured till he was eighty five. And I
have a friend who worked in the old film era
with led Zepp, and he says, I've been around the world.
I've seen nothing. Uh. When you when you travel these places,
do you take advantage of the cultural uh stuff there? Yeah.

(41:19):
Well we started when I um, right around the time
when Nick of Time came out. We started to drive
at night on the bus so that we could have
the daytime so I could get some exercise and get
out and sight see and see my friends. I mean,
with COVID, I'm still getting outside and still doing yoga,
but I I see friends with a mask. We test

(41:40):
first and we're distance, you know, so I'm we're We've
been in a COVID bubble since January. But yeah, I
take advantage of it. On nights off, I try to
go to great You know, I have friends all over
the place that I've kept in touch with high school
and college and activist friends and former band members and
you know, so, uh, it's really fun to wake up

(42:00):
in a new city and tried it. But after all
these years of being in Pittsburgh many times I have
seen all the sites. But it doesn't mean that it's
any more less fun to ride bikes along the river.
And where are some of the places that really call
you off guard that we're really very interesting to you? Well,

(42:21):
you know the obvious ones that I love, or Vancouver, Seattle,
and New Orleans, for example. Austin has an incredible music scene.
I always try to come in a couple of days
early so I can hang out. Um. I love every
section of this country. I mean, I'm I really they're

(42:42):
surprising things about southern New Jersey that is more rural
and beautiful. You know, when I used to play colleges
in the seventies, I was surprised to find out there
was something between Trenton and New York City, which that
industrial pollution kind of stuffed and thrilled me. But there's
little outlawing areas to most of the city's I mean
even on tour and outside of Rome forty five minutes,

(43:05):
if you have a day off, you can go all
through all kinds of little villages and towns. And I'd
have to say that the fun part of the seventies
was driving to all those colleges and seeing all those
smaller roads than the ones we see now. And how
about the rest of the world outside the States, Outside
North America. I have never been to South America or

(43:27):
Central America, or places like Tahiti or Bali. I would
love to go to Thailand. I've been to Japan, but
it's so expensive now and I'm not a big star
over there, so we probably can't go, and the rest
of my life I probably won't ever get to go
there again. The U k Is my favorite place to tour,
and Holland has always been incredibly open for people like

(43:49):
Ray Cooter and Randy Newman, a little feet of myself
back in the seventies when America really didn't know who
we were. There there was some reason there's a music
scene there that really appreciated that range of you know
American artists where that you know, nexus of R and
B in Honky Talk and you know they were The
people over in Europe don't care so much about putting

(44:10):
you in a box as America used to. But now
within the Americana format, we've got a comfortable home. So
I love Scotland and Ireland, and I love New Zealand
and Australia. I will say I've been to South America
a couple of times. In the best place I've ever
been was Bogata. Everybody, everybody I hung with there had
a family member who had been killed. Oh my, they

(44:33):
mean like gang violence. Yes, there was just Derek Gurr
and there were certain places you couldn't go as also
there with you know, the manager of the original manager
of the Stones lives there, Andrew lou Goldham. So it's
fascinating me with him because you know, there's certain places
they tell you not to go with him, and he
knows they can see you being an American right off,

(44:55):
and he knows how to push him away. It was
just so did he why did he settle there? I
just saw him on the Bert Burns movie, which was
so great. They interviewed him for that. Well, you know,
he's very much alive. He married a woman from bo Guitar.
It wasn't like a Nazi and they were going to
find out. Yeah, he also has a place of Vancouver

(45:19):
at this particular point which he goes back and forth,
but he can tell you the real story on Stone stuff.
Just utterly fascinating. Oh my gosh, have you seen that
new series that they did? Are you talking about the
new documentaries? Yeah, the new series on the Stones. I've
only seen the Charlie one, and I saw part of
the Ronny one and when I got sleepy on the bus,

(45:40):
so I got to pick it up again. You know,
I have not seen them yet. Oh, everybody says there's
great that when it gets just to television. You know,
I just watched the shined O'Connor documentary and then I
got started in the Credence one, and they're done so heavily,
but they draw you right in because remember, you know

(46:01):
the elite that I thought Lee Morrigan one, I know
his family didn't love it, but the Oscar Peterson and
Lee Morgan ones are fantastic. I mean there's so many
I love. My favorite one I've ever seen that I
was so surprising was the Quiet one about Bill Wyman
with all those homes. That fantastic. And what about his

(46:22):
collection of stuff and his building. What a guy. I
love him. Do you watch streaming television? And I do.
I watch it because we're on the road, so we
have nights off and after the show we can pair
our computer or our phone with the TV and the bus,
so as we're going down the road with COVID, there's
no aftershow meet and greets, so I get to see

(46:44):
all kinds of cool stuff. So what do you recommend? Oh?
I loved um. Well, there's ones that I just you know,
things like Dead to me. I really liked. I loved
Ray Donovan. I was surprising because it's pretty violent, but
I really loved it. I loved Ted Lasso. I don't
have Apple TV, but my friend did and I made

(47:06):
me so happy. I love the Morning show that's also
an Apple TV. And then tons of things from Britain.
You know, I'm not a big crime murder mystery one.
But the Grandchester guy, the guy who started the original
Grandchester was very cute, so I used to I admit
that I watched it because he was so handsome. Have
you seen Happy Valley? No, but that guy is in

(47:29):
it right, A bad guy I saw. I watched a
little bit of it, but it was upsetting to me.
That used to be my my number one recommendation. Although
I think it's not on Netflix anymore. It's on another service.
Have you watched Borgan? No, but I heard that's really good.
I heard that's really good. Sometimes I'm in the mood

(47:49):
for something dark, but a lot of times I just
want escapist, anything British and from not not my time zone,
I mean time period because during the election and George
Floyd and I was just so so many of our
friends passed away between cancer and a couple of suicides
and drug overdoses, but COVID too. There was just one

(48:13):
after the other every I was just devastating. So I
watched a lot of escapist and you know, um travel
and Chef Chef's Table kind of things and travel and
nature films and a lot of stuff about dogs, soothing things.
My girlfriend is hooked on the cooking shows. She doesn't cook,

(48:34):
but she's hooked on the shows. I don't cook that
much either, but I like them too. If I have
a half hour. They made me feel good. How about
the house redecorating and buying and selling into those two
and I have not seen those and I don't do
the reality TV too much. You know that I have
not watched the House, you know, the kind of gossipy things. Yeah,

(48:56):
what about reading? I love to read. I'm reading both
John Winner and Barbara Dane's excellent biographies autobiographies right now.
I'm going back and forth between the two. I love
The Night Watchman Louise Erdic. My favorite book I've found
in my entire life is called This Is Happiness by

(49:16):
Nile Williams from Ireland. I'm I cannot recommend it more
highly so. I mean, I admit that COVID was it
hadn't gave me other choices. But I also read The
New Yorker, and I listened to a lot of podcasts
and New Yorker fiction, and that you know, I do
a lot of politics through my podcasts. Okay, let's go

(49:38):
back to the Yawn Winner book. I read the one
that he asked that was supposed to be a autobiography,
and then he didn't like it. It was called sticky
Fingers or something. This one I have, it gets such
a bad rap though, that he's constantly dropping names. What's
your experience and reading it? I was telling Jackson last
night when we were talking about it, and you know

(49:59):
the fact is that guy that is his life. He
was friends with John Kennedy. You know, like it's okay,
you know, he gets he gets to do it. He
was really important in our culture and he really was
friends with all these people. And it's fascinating to read.
So he's a good writer, and I'm you know, I'm
glad that he wrote it, and I don't feel like
he's dropping names. But I'm also famous myself, so I

(50:20):
don't know what it's like to be a civilian and
read that and you're not really a civilian. You're in
the bizins well, I guess you. The other thing is,
you know, Clive Davis the first book in the seventies
was phenomenal. The second when I was about three quarters through,
when he's so busy burnishing his image. Oh yeah, you know,
I didn't get that feeling from Yawn. But I mean

(50:41):
I thought it was kind of vulnerable and open and
I appreciated it. But I never read hit Man was
that great Walter Yetnikov hit Man yet Nikov wrote a
book that was okay, But Hitman the book phenomenal. That's
what I hear, that's what and I would it's the
best book about the You know, it's an interesting thing

(51:02):
because you know the code of the road, you reveal
certain stuff and you're out forever. So this guy, Frederick
Danny wrote one book. That's it. No one's ever going
to talk to him again. I'm sorry, but I heard
it was absolutely accurate. It absolutely was. I mean. One

(51:24):
of the strange things today is you remember when you
were making those records for Warner Brothers, music was everything,
and the people who ran the labels were god. I
usually related to the movie studios. You lived in l A.
You knew who ran the movie studios. Now nobody knows,
nobody cares. It's a completely I had like seven presidents

(51:45):
at the time I was at Capital, but you know
what I mean, I made relationships with all their their staff,
and then their staff had relationship with radio and on
the road, and then and then by the time the
record came out, he'd been five aired and a whole
new team came in that I had no relationship with. So,
you know, it was that's why I went independent. I

(52:05):
got my own, I started my own label. I just
got tired of the not having phone calls answered. You know,
could you have stayed at the major label. No. I
planned ten years in advance of starting Red Wing that
I was going to go independent. I saw my I
saw two or three friends, including John Prine, who had
a great was the first person to do it. Um.

(52:27):
I just you know, if you have a staff that
is capable and super smart and willing to do the work,
it was great to go independent. I started stockpiled my
touring money and we I haven't looked back. Why is
it called red Wing? Oh? Because I have like a
red shock of hair that goes like that. It's just

(52:49):
like a wing of hair. It's not bangs. And I
just sort of, I don't know. I just thought it
was cool. And the logo has a little white streak
like my streak. And how many people are working for
red Wing? Oh, it's just same my same office. It's
the Kathy Kins, my manager, Annie heller Gutwillig is my
um uh back up. Like social media, social activism, music,

(53:13):
you know, all the kinds of everybody's wearing multiple hats.
So I've got three main women that are in the office,
and then we have PR and distribution and promo and
people that advise us, you know, label kind of people
that advise us, and then we have a whole digital
arm that we outsource, so everything is kind of outsourced
from our basic team of three women and me. You

(53:36):
just to go back you were talking. You listen to
political podcast? Which ones do you listen to? I listened
to Ezra Kleine and The Daily and uh, you know,
I pick and choose different things that I link on.
You know, if I'm read the l A Times, in
the New York Times or the Guardian, you know, I

(53:58):
just try to surf all the different stories and get
different points of view. I don't I should read more
from the other side's point of view, but I I
just can't do it. Do you do? You do you
make yourself read? I mean, if there was a George
Will that I admired, I might read at point of
view a little bit. I mean, there's some people that
at the Times that are more conservative than me, but

(54:21):
I just can't. I can't study what they're saying. It
just makes me gag. Well, you know, when you're in
high school, information flows very quickly, and we're not in
high school anymore. And even though everybody in our generation
has an iPhone and says how digitally savvy they are,

(54:42):
They really are not. You know, they're not on TikTok.
So the question is how does one become isolated not
become isolated. In the seventies, when someone didn't know what
was going on, you roll your eyes. Now you know
a lot of people are out of the loop. So
to tell you the truth, I get three physical newspapers
every day that I we from cover to cover because
they tune me in. And then I got the Washington

(55:04):
Post digitally. So as far as the Wall Street Journal
editorial and opinion page, everybody knows those people are whacked.
Even the people I know who are writing for the
Wall Street Journal, Brett Stevens. I you know who's the
right wing guy at the New York Times. I don't
always agree with them. I think you know you're gonna

(55:26):
get me on a rant. The New York Times sets
the agenda for America, if not the world, and the right,
as they tend to do, has demonized the Times to
the point that it's become a pejorative. If you mentioned
the Time, oh no, that's that's the biased New York Times.

(55:46):
But the right gets all their news from the New
York Times. If you turn you know, if you turn
on Fox, they're quoting the New York Times, they will
disagree with it, but they don't have their own in
dependent news gathering service. So interesting, you know, it's really fascinating.

(56:07):
So when it comes to the other thing, you know,
it's serious. In the car, you can listen to all
the news stations, and I used to listen to Fox
on a regular basis just to find out what's going on,
But after the Shenanigans in the wake of the election,
very rarely, and I do go to the web page

(56:31):
just to see primarily their spin, whether they I mean,
I was, yeah, I know it's important as a social
student of social how people are getting their information and
social psychology and social you know, it's important to understand
what's getting play, you know, in the culture. You know,
and wow, Well, the other thing is things are big

(56:54):
news on the left. They don't even forget the spin.
They appear way way way down on the box. I mean,
I love I love Amy Goodman. I listened to a
lot of public radio. I listen to BBC. I listened
to the PBS News Hour and BBC World News every day,
And you know, I try to poke around and then
there's days when I just want to be off on

(57:14):
the woods and listen to an audio book. I don't
want to be dipping into politics because I get as
an activist, I'm a hit up for as I moved
through the country, I'm I have choices for who to
have table at my concerts and which which candidates I
might want to send money to. So I have to
stay on top of which nuclear plan is almost closed

(57:35):
and which one is having a toxic leak in this
organization is you know, they need assistance and I and
I am the person to tie my tour proceeds, you know,
we tie the whole bunch of my whatever profits I
make in my life to supporting the groups, like over
a hundred groups that that I am proud to support,
but I have to make sure that they're still viable.

(57:58):
So there's enough homework involved with that where I just can't.
I can't read the Washington Post and the l A.
I mean, I poked through the l A Times in
New York Times because they're my they're my peeps. I
feel like, I mean, I should read the San Francisco Chronicle,
but I just I don't have enough hours in the
day to follow everything. Well, you know, on Apple News

(58:19):
Plus you pay a dollar a month, and I only
my main motivation was New York Magazine was going to
a hundred dollars a year ago twenty forty, but a
hundred dollars a year their issues with almost nothing in it,
so I can read that. But it also has the
San Francisco Chronicle, the Sacramento be good. Thank you for
telling me, because you know San Jose Mercury News is

(58:40):
a great paper too. There's a lot of really good papers. Still,
most of those are all if you pay the dollar,
they're in Apple News. If you get confused, just to
have somebody email me. It's pretty simple. But this is
the This is I am now, and when I hang
up with you, I'm gonna get Apple everything. Because my
keyboard players just told how much stuff is available on

(59:01):
Apple TV plus, and you know, I just go, I
can't take one more. Were not one more? I'm full,
But I'm going to cancel something and put in Apple TV. Okay,
I got Apple t for buying products. I got Apple
TV from the outset onset until May. Then I heard

(59:22):
about a show and I paid the five dollars. I
didn't like the show, and there's an Apple has so
much of my money. I'm not complaining about that, but
I canceled as a protest. Give me a number, give me,
I'll take all the services. Give me a number. But
I feel like I'm being packed to death by ducks.
I mean, I hear you. I know what you mean.

(59:43):
How about the new chargers? I mean, come on, do
you think like you could get I heard they're gonna anyway.
We're gonna sidetrack here. I don't want to side track
all you want to talk about the chargers? You know,
I mean, it took me a long time even to
get a CD player. You know, I was at a
Blood Eye before I went to Area Codes. I kept
Quest three, you know, I kept the for a long

(01:00:07):
ass time. But you know, Forest, that was our number,
oh five O five to eight. And you remember watching
New York TV, which was the TV where I grew
up in Connecticut, dial murray Hill. You know, it's just
crazy Eddie And you guys had Zachary, didn't you. Oh
of course I remember when Zacharly, you know, was the

(01:00:31):
Afternoon Kids show and w n W. You just couldn't
believe it that it was the same guy, You have
never given up the faith. You have always supported clauses.

(01:00:51):
If you pull the lens back. One can argue quite
strongly that the Vietnam War was ended by protest by
the youth, and certainly all the musicians involved in muse
got the public to really have a bad feeling about
nuclear power. To what degree do you are you disillusioned

(01:01:16):
or feel that the activist effort still makes a difference.
You know, there's a qualitative difference with Fox News and
what's happened in this country's delivery of information and the
center of investigative reporting and trusting in the center that
there is a middle way with the CBS News and

(01:01:39):
ABC News and nightly news on NBC. David Saskine, Charlie Rose.
There used to be some discourse, whether it was crossfire
or you know, CNN. I mean, there was there was
a center that you could kind of count on that
was going to be sane. And since that has split

(01:01:59):
to where are delusional and forty of the people in
this country believe or Republicans anyway that the election was stolen.
I don't know how to say. I don't know how
to address that except to keep pushing for fair elections
and free press and get as much of a cultural

(01:02:19):
icons two remain neutral and baby somehow get some sort
of coming together to hear both sides. I wish there
was a way to get that debate where the other
side would listen to us, and I would want to
listen to the other side. So I don't I don't
really know how to dismantle what's going on with democracy

(01:02:41):
being threatened the way it is. It's it's just like
it's nothing that I would have foreseen. I mean, racism.
I understand that it's the lid is blown off on that,
the Me Too movement, you know they have and they
have not getting worse gentrification. Nobody can afford, you know,
all of the policy international, But what's the lurch to

(01:03:02):
the right and the rise of fascism in terms of
information and people belief systems. I just wasn't expecting. Did
you see that coming? Not whatsoever? The Soviet Union fell
Obama one. It was supposed to be Democrats forever. I
can understand why it switched, but I did not see
it forthcoming whatsoever. I mean, I got we got the

(01:03:23):
Tea Party. I saw that, the moral majority, but that's
you know, that's just fighting. That means you get in
there and you have debates, and but what's going on
now where the people just all of those qn on
people getting elected. It's it's not a country. I recognize.
I don't know how to dismantle it. So you have
a lot of tour dates coming up in the South,

(01:03:44):
which tends tends red. Yeah, are you conscious of saying
or not saying political things we're traveling. I travel with
the Ukrainian flag resting against the drum riser and I
make a comment about how we need to support for
a long time refugees and then refugees all over. But

(01:04:04):
I did very much just encourage people to vote and
have local groups that are working on issues, sometimes environmentals,
sometimes um, you know, specific to legislation that's on the docket.
You know, I'll have people tabling, but I don't. I
don't push it on people from the stage. I think
they're there to hear a concert, so it's not a

(01:04:26):
benefit rally. But I just saw Jackson play a month
ago at the same place. I just played the Berkeley
Greek Theater, and you know, his songs are fantastically topical
and timeless at the same time, and I don't. I
feel like it's I can pretty much assume that my audience,
even in the South, a lot of them will be
in the same ballpark politically as I am. But I

(01:04:48):
just think it's not the place for me to say stuff.
I don't want to be a I don't want to
open up that discourse and social media, I don't. I
don't flare, I don't prick in my posts and stuff.
I don't prick people to come in and attack me.
I just can't. I can't stomach it. I just want
to keep my organization working, and keep my band and

(01:05:10):
crew and my causes supported, and encourage people to get
along and take care of themselves and just leave, whether
they're masked or not, out of it. You know, I
just I can't. I can't. I can only pick certain fights.
But I have definitely never been one to proselytize on stage. Okay,
going back to the war, the youth UH really opened

(01:05:33):
people's eyes to what was going on in Vietnam, but
it was really pushed by the tribal drum, which was
the music ye in the rallies and the marches and
all that. So you know, I've been part of a
bunch of marches and rallies and things. So anyway, I
didn't let you ask your question. Well, you know, but
you inspired me to a certain degree. Rallies don't work anymore.

(01:05:58):
The world lives on law line. The reason I'm saying
this is not in response to you. I wrote this.
If we look at what happened during the UH Trump term,
nothing that was other than the Floyd protests, which were worldwide.
And what if you talk to black people during that,
they say, it's just gonna return to what it was,

(01:06:20):
which to a great degree it has. But I think
these battles are fought online, and I think young Democrats
are left leading people a completely disillusion because other than
AOC who's talking to them, it's these old, wimpy people.
And then you have a lot of people who don't

(01:06:40):
understand the modern paradigm. I mean, this is sort of
there's a couple of questions here. But you certainly are
aware of the old routine. You make an album, the
record company pushes it, they push it to radio, there's
publicity everywhere. Pretty much everybody's interested knows that you have
a new project. They may or may not like it,

(01:07:01):
may or may not buy a ticket today. It's like
a three falls in the forest. I don't care who
you are. Beyonce came out with a new album, press
was everywhere within three days. A lot of the tracks
fell off the Spotify chart, which is where the most
consumption is. So how do you cope you're the same?
You know, it's like that Joe Waltz song, Everybody's you know,

(01:07:23):
you're still the same. Everybody's changed. But can you just
say I'm in my own bubble and doing these things.
A lot of your contemporaries don't make new music at all. Well,
I mean I I've done over fifty interviews for this album,
and I'm um a lot of TV. We managed to
stay number ten, me number one for ten weeks on

(01:07:44):
the American IT chart. The album and the single was
even longer at number one on the Americana charts. So
I mean, I have had a response that I haven't
had in years to this record, and part of it
is because I just worked my ass off, you know,
promoting it, and also because you know, people luckily it
got some good reviews and some good attention. But what

(01:08:04):
do I expect the sales? I don't I mean, I
don't think you make I only make my living on
the road, really, and not everybody can do that. I'm established,
and I know how rare it is to be able
to get away with what I get away with in
terms of being able to financially support two trucks and
two busses and sound and lights, and you know, it's

(01:08:25):
it's out of the realm of most of my friends
who are in their thirties, forties and fifties. They can't
even tour. I mean, forget COVID. A lot of the
clubs are closed. Who's I mean, where are they going
to tour? You know? Do do people that are sixty
five go out anymore? No? I've in complete agreement with
you on the new album. You wrote or co wrote

(01:08:48):
four songs, you know, one of the my favorite songs
years ever you wrote nothing seems to matter from give it,
Thank you, and I was unhappy that you did not
continue to write as much. But now in the recent
years you've written more. How does that come about? Well,
you know, in terms of you writing personally in the seventies,

(01:09:12):
I just I made six albums in seven years and
was on the road the whole time. So I just
didn't have the privacy or the ability to write. You know,
that was literally on the road the whole time, um
nick of Time, waiting to do Nick of Time. I
had a little bit more time between eighties six and
when I made the record a couple of years later,

(01:09:33):
and uh, I wanted to write something about what it
was like to be thirty nine, and I wrote nick
of Time and the Roads my middle name, and and
then I had more the luxury of having more time
off in between tours, and that you have to have
time off to write songs. So I don't have a
great attachment to having my own songs have to be

(01:09:55):
on the record. But if I really feel like I
want to tell a story or say something, or I
have a musical groove that I need to put on
the record, I will write a song on assignment. And
that's kind of what happened with The two acoustic ballads
were really entirely UM inspired because I didn't want to

(01:10:16):
write about my personal life. I had already written on
every aspect of my personal life, and I wanted to
write a story song inspired by John Prins Angel from Montgomery.
You know, so I love the idea, I love the
idea of taking someone else's story and writing a song
about it from the point of view of the person
in it. I love short stories, but um, you do

(01:10:39):
it as an assignment, as opposed to well, let's just say,
when I get off the road finally, then I have
time to write songs for a record and compile songs
for a record. But on the on the road, I'm
just too busy. I don't know how people do it,
but there's people that keep writing all the time. That
would not be me. But I really appreciate nothing that

(01:11:02):
you like. Nothing seems to matter. It's literally aside from
the There's one song on my first album, my first
ever song called thank You, but that was my first
real song. Nothing seems to matter, and I stopped doing
it in the eighties, but my new guitar player really
wants me to do it, so I might whip it out.
If you're into short stories, I got one recommendation. If

(01:11:23):
you read Curtis sitting Felds, you think it, I'll say it. No.
She's written a number of famous books. You see her
in the New York or on a regular basis. When
it comes to short stories, it is by far my
favorite short story book. You know a lot of short stories.
When you go from story to story, it's jarring. Yeah,

(01:11:45):
this book, and it's so real. So right, I'm right
right after this, I'm going to look it up. Curtis
sitting Felments. That's a woman. You think it, I'll say it.
So you worked with all these different producers. You know,
you work with bless famous people. Then you work with
Paul Rothchild who came up in the folk era, but
really I knew Paul was more of a control guy

(01:12:08):
doing it his way than you work with Don was.
Now you're doing it yourself. What you learn about all
those producers in the process, Oh, I learned something from
each one of them, you know, like the engineer too,
because it's the team of the how the record sounds
and how they mike the musicians. So I learned as
much from the musicians that we picked to play on

(01:12:28):
the songs and the engineer and how he's making the
drums and how I picked the team that I want
to work with. Is what who has been making records
that I really like, Like Mitchell Freuman, Chad Blake made Keiko,
and they made those Richard Thompson records that I love
and after the four with Ed and Don, I said,
I think I want to go play in their sandbox

(01:12:49):
for a while because I love what Chad Blake does.
So I learned, you know, as a I'm not a
technical geek, but I love to learn about where people
put mys and what kind of mikes they use on
which instruments. And my my philosophy is to get the
right musicians in the room and that you already like
the way their drum kits sounds, and you already like

(01:13:10):
this guy's guitars and his amps, and then just mike
everything so that you get an accurate sound of those
people that you chose to put in there. You don't
fix it later, you know, get the right people and
then turn the mic on, sing live, play live, and
fix as little as possible. And that's my choice. You know.
Paul Rothschild was the opposite. He did tons of comping

(01:13:32):
and it was a whole different stylar recording. I after
those two records, I said, that's it. I'm going back
to live recording. I mean, I want to just make
live records. Turn the damn tape on, and if you know,
maybe between two takes, you go between the third verse
of the second take, or maybe the solo from the
first one. But I'm just not a studio person that
does fifteen twenty takes of things. So you're one of

(01:13:56):
the rear people who have a leader album that I
believe is just as good as one of the earlier albums.
For a long time, Give It Up was my favorite,
but Luck of the Draw is different but just as good.
So much, and I have really appreciated all the wonderful
things that you have said about those songs. I mean,

(01:14:16):
Michael O'Keeffe and loves one part B My Lover, that
you what you went off on that, and Ed Sheerney
and I talked about how much we love what you
wrote about Luck of the Draw, and Paul brady Is
and I have been in comming every time you showcase
that record. We are all delighted. So thank you so much.
That's how I found out about you, as you wrote.
Someone sent me your early piece about I think it

(01:14:38):
was one part B My Lover. Yeah it was and
still phenomenal. But you know, ed great guy. To what
degree did he influence you? You? Oh? God, I mean,
I don't think I've ever had as much fun in
the studio as those records were because of Ed. His personality,
you know him. I mean, he was just a big

(01:14:59):
old teddy. He was hilarious, he was funny, he was
a genius. And Don was that the chemistry between the
three of us was just epic. It was we love
each other so much. I just had lunch with Don
the other day and I our love is so true
and so deep, and our musical taste is so mutually respected.

(01:15:19):
We we love each other's aesthetic. So Ed was just
you know, as professional as he was a good time.
I'm so sorry that he passed. You know, he was
a terrible loss, terrible, terrible. But did you you talk
about learning from engineers? Did you learn from Ed? Oh? Yeah?

(01:15:41):
You know. The Luck of the Draw is that is
the album that many sound companies tune their live you know,
speakers to when they're out in the house and they're
they're getting sounds before the band comes up for sound check. Many,
many people have said, we use Luck of the Draw
as the gold stone standard, you know, And you know,
I love engineering. I love to listen to what he's doing,

(01:16:03):
and I love I had a lot to do with
how my it's my taste that mixed the record as
much as his capability, because it's just a quite Some
people like a lot of reverbs. Some people like, you know,
live sounding drums. Some people it's really my taste. So
I picked I picked Ed Don didn't know Ed, but
I loved Ed's work with Ry Cooter on Get Rhythm,

(01:16:26):
and I said, We've got to meet this guy that
did David Linley's El Rao X and Ry Couters Get Rhythm,
and we had lunch with him, and that was it
that three of us were born. I didn't know that story.
How did you meet Paul Brady? My bass player Hu
Hudginson turned me onto his solo albums, which I had
only known his traditional stuff, and I think they even

(01:16:48):
opened for me at Toughs University years ago when he
was with the Johnson's or Um. But I was flipped
out when I heard his first couple of solo albums
and just became such a huge fan of his. He's
one of the greatest that you know, up there with
Paul Simon, I think. And you know, when you have

(01:17:09):
an album that you love, your favorite changes and one
part B My Lover was always my favorite, but now
the song Luck of the Draws my favorite. I loved
what you wrote about that too. We were so delighted
because you know, you make those you make those records
real for people. That was thirty years ago. You know,
it's hard to believe that that that album, you know,
I mean, there's my my fans know those songs, but

(01:17:32):
you gave it new life. And I think Luck of
the Draws for all the reasons you illuminated. I think
it's exactly that brilliant. And he's got a new autobiography
that is waiting at one my dining room table. That's
they just shipped up. Wow, he hasn't reached out yet,
but I'll put my radar on that. Yeah, he just
I think it just came. I don't even think it's

(01:17:53):
out yet. Yeah, that's how you know, they shipped the
book business. That's a slow, antiquated business. So how did
you end up on Capitol? Danny Goldberg and Ron Stone
were working with me and my lawyer, Natt Weiss. We're
all working as a team and seeing what, you know,

(01:18:13):
who who felt like the right change. And Joe Smith
moved over to Capitol and he signed me to Warners
in in UH one and you know, he and Danny
and Nat and everybody sat down and they said, well,
we're you know, we don't think she's gonna sell a lot,
you know, give her a really low budget and I
think I think was a d twenty five thousand dollars

(01:18:34):
and I had to make the record out of that,
no signing advance. And I said, sure again if I
if I can have artistic control and you don't try
to tell me what to record or what to look like,
or you know, get in the studio and tell me
how to sound. And Joe understood that. Okay, Needless to say,

(01:19:00):
you know, it hadn't ended well with Warner Brothers. Your
first album is this amazing success in a different era
when if you have success it maintains all those Grammys
cause sales forever. What was it like for you being
in the center of that, Maelstrom? Absolutely fantastic. I mean
even before the nominations, the record had sold a million copies,

(01:19:23):
and I did like two hours of press a day,
even on the road a lot, like three or four
the days a week. I just hammered, hammered, hammered. You know,
the new label was very excited to prove that they
could do a better job with me, and the critics
really liked the album. I got like a half page
in the New York Times or the Newsweek or something

(01:19:44):
about how unusual Nick of Time was as a song.
It was just kiss met, you know, a bunch of things.
VH one started and they I asked Dennis Quaid to
start in the video with me so I could be
sexy without taking my clothes off, and at forty and
and he flirted with me in the video for thing
called Love, so that got on the TV because he's
a big star. And you know Triple A radio. I mean,

(01:20:07):
at that point, it was a A O R radio,
college radio. There was all these formats that weren't around
five years before. If Nick of Time had come out
in eighty five, it wouldn't have been a hit. So
it was just all the stars lined up. So I
was already completely thrilled that the tour did so well
and all the reviews came in and it sold so well.

(01:20:27):
But then I got the nomination for an Album of
the Year and those three other ones, and I just
couldn't believe it. So nobody expected me to win, So
it was literally like unreal Cinderella Story. And I not
only that, but I got to move to Northern California,
where I always wanted to live. So I can't even
think of anybody whose life was changed more by winning

(01:20:48):
awards ever than what I got with Nick of Time.
You mean moving to Northern California just be from l A.
I mean, I just I got to have Ricky Fittar
in my band and pay play a different level of
musicians come on the road with me. You know, played
at twenty thou people sometimes go to European the Nelson
Mandela release at Wembley Stadium. You know, I was like

(01:21:11):
invited to all the cool stuff and I could go
on TV and talk about all my causes and the
rhythm and blues foundation, so on every single level personally,
you know. Sobriety was a huge break in my life,
and then Nick of Time doing that well was just
change life changing and still I'm still reaping the benefits

(01:21:32):
of it. Okay, Needle say, I like, look, I think
Luck of the Draws even better album than Nick of Time.
Not that Nick of Time isn't great, I know, I
I would agree with you. I think Luck of the
Draws really good. Thank you. What was it like having that?
What pressure to do feel with a follow up? I
didn't even think about it. I just got the best
songs I could. You know, I'm used to not selling,

(01:21:54):
you know, I was. I was happy that I got
that moment in the sunshine there. I wasn't expecting another shot.
And then when the record did even better, it was
completely a thrill. Yeah, it was great. And going back
to nick of Time, talk about turning for to your
friends are having babies, any regrets that you didn't have

(01:22:15):
children or live the life to a degree these other
people did. Absolutely not. I was not cut out for
the wife and mother thing, and um, I have too
much respect for motherhood to do it in a half
past way. You know, my dad was gone a lot,
and I would you know, if I had a wife,
I might have had a kid. But I just I
just didn't feel the call. I wanted to be the

(01:22:37):
captain of my own ship and only be responsible for
my life, and so I was really very much focused
on shepherding the older generation of R and B and
blues artists. That's where my children were was getting attention
and royalty reform and support for the great generation that
was responsible for all of us being where we are today,

(01:22:58):
and you and I speaking, and Ruth Brown and Charles
Brown and the Coasters and the Drifters and Sam and
Dave and the Temptations. Never participated in any royalties. So
that was my that was my mission, not having kids. Now,
you did get married once, and as we've established, you
certainly have a history of romances. Was that one and done?

(01:23:22):
Would you get married again? You know? I mean we decided,
you know, at our age that Michael and I were at,
we said, you know, if we were still together in
a year and a half, let's just give it a
get let's just make a commitment. And you know, it's
something I'd never done. And I said, you know, he's Catholic,
and I was going, okay, let's do it. And we

(01:23:43):
had a Buddhist, Catholic, Quaker ceremony, and um, you know,
our lives just we were fine for a while, but
our careers just took us in two separate places and
we just we just couldn't find enough continuity in the
relationship to work on the stuff we needed to work on.
We parted as friends, and you know, he's he's remarried
and has a kid. And he's very happy, and I'm

(01:24:06):
happy to be living out here. And I got my
situation really great too, So it was fine for a while.
As all the relationships have been, I don't I don't
regret any of them. Let's just go back to what
you were talking about, Dick Waterman and touring the South
and going on tour with the Stones. So you go
to Harvard, how do you ultimately get involved in the scene,

(01:24:30):
and how does it end up that you go with
Dick through the South, never mind to Europe um a
small uh, let's what do you call an anecdote to
Jimpsen Theaters in New York is run by Jack Vertell,
who was my classmate at Harvard, another blues crazy, crazy
for the blues guy. We're really good friends. He calls

(01:24:52):
me up and says, I just listened to Sunhouse on
our friend David Guessner on a HRB blues show on
harve A radio station. Dick Waterman, who rediscovered Sunhouse, lives
in Cambridge. Son is at Dick's house. We can go
and meet sun House and so he called me and
we went over and met him and my life changed

(01:25:14):
that day. Okay, you know that you ever read the
book White Bicycles that talks all about that what's his name?
The record? No, no, it was the record producer. What's
his name? I'll look it up while we're talking. But um,
but White Bicycles. What a title, right? But it literally says,

(01:25:37):
you know, these people were at Harvard the epicenter in Cambridge,
and they said, all these blues guys, their numbers were
in the phone book and a lot of them working
straight jobs. And they called, we'll come play Cambridge and
they did you know these white kids invited them? And
how did you end up taking time off and touring
the South? Oh? I well, I mean I took a

(01:26:00):
semester off because Dick and I were involved, and I
also wanted to hang out with all the blues guys
that came through his place. He moved The club forty
seven closed in the spring of my freshman year, and
sixty eight Dick moved to Philadelphia, where he was the
the blues guys would come on the way to their
gigs that he booked. He had avalon productions. He had
all the blues guys under one to be able to

(01:26:22):
collectively bargain with the club owners and get them better pay,
because the club owners would go, why should I pay
eight hundred for book of White when I can get
Mississippi Genre for five? And Dick said, that's not right,
you know. So he kept them and working at the
right amount of time, with the right hours of driving
in between gigs, not working them to death, giving them

(01:26:43):
the respect and the fee that they deserved. And I
thought Dick was great for doing it. And so I
took a semester off and started playing in the northeast.
He put me on some shows, and I went back
to school for the rest of my junior my sophomore year,
and uh just started. Then I made a record and
next thing I knew, I was on tour plane folk clubs,

(01:27:04):
mostly on both coasts. I didn't really tour the South
until I open with Jackson Brown my first national tour
in seventy four. And the author of White Bicycles is
the record producer Joe boyd Oh. I know, Joe, yeah right,
But I mean maybe Gary Davis. Reverend Gary Davis might

(01:27:25):
have been in the phone book, but the rest of
the blues guys didn't live anywhere near the East coast.
As I said it, didn't read the book recently, So
I don't want to go on record wherever Gary Davis
is mentioned in the book, but whatever, Yeah, everybody out
the blues guys lived down south. Fred McDowell lived in Coma, Mississippi,
and son lived in Rochester, and you know, there was
a lot of a lot of guys that. Um. Anyway,

(01:27:48):
it was a great opportunity to be able to learn
and hang out with some of the greatest blues artists
of all time. And I'll be forever grateful to Dick
Waterman for introducing me to them. Now, you used to
have a lot of these people are open for you.
But what is the future of the blues. Well, a
lot of the first generation and subsequent generations of people

(01:28:12):
have passed away. But you know, Buddy is still around,
and um, there's a handful of people still touring and
playing at a really high level. But there's some great
up and coming Marcus King, there's a lot of you know,
there's there's a lot of fans of blues festivals. I
think the blues is in good hands. Whether the artists
can make any money, you know, I just hope people

(01:28:34):
we can negotiate so that the streaming services can pay
better you know, we're just working hard to get that
in the songwriters, to get paid more and directly. So
that's a whole another thing. So what's your number one
pinch me moment? Oh gosh, oh I love that question.

(01:28:54):
Um oh when Ella Fitzgerald and Natalie Cole said album
of the Year and mentioned my name, I mean, I
don't even remember. I was in hyperspace within you know,
there's a picture of me looking like that Edward Munch
the scream, you know, and I just that was a
pinch me moment. And what are your two favorite Jackson

(01:29:16):
Brown songs? Oh? My god, that first album is, you know,
looking into You song for Adam it's very hard. Bright
Baby Blues is about Lowell and I don't I'm trying

(01:29:41):
to narrow it down looking into You? And okay, how
about Late for the Sky. Late for the Sky unbelievable
and also the last unbelievable. Unbelievable. You never knew what
I loved and you don't. I don't know what you
never knew what I loved in you you you don't
know what you love. I don't know what you love
to me. Maybe a picture of somebody I was you

(01:30:02):
were hoping I might be. I'm getting goose bumps, just
you know, the guys, that genius. And the other night
he did an hour opening set, and then he came
back and played an hour and a half and it
was just one after the other of incredible music. The
other one is the last song on the first side
of the title track, We Goes, And it took me

(01:30:23):
a long time to get into, about two years after
the album came out in seventy four, dreaming of the
perfect love, holding it so far above that if you
stumbled down to someone real, you'd never know. Oh God,
he's so profound and so and you know, between him
and Prian and Richard Thompson at that age, you know
that young. To be that insightful is just astonishing. Well,

(01:30:46):
look at Dylan, Come on, does he have a new Chronicles?
There was that just in That was just in the
paper today. The New York Times has excerpts I can't
wait right, And then the reason I say too is
the Kinks have that song A line in Sunny Afternoon,
give me two good reasons why I ought to stay,

(01:31:06):
And that's why I always ask too. Yeah, that's good.
I'm glad you told me that. And Finally, your set list,
unlike a lot of your contemporaries, is not identical every night.
How do you how do you choose what to play? Well,
there's an arc of how to set up the three
big ballots and the course of an hour and a half,

(01:31:29):
I mean, when we're not having a big headliner on
the show with us a code bill that's more like
a double bill. I have an hour and I almost
have two hours, so I can fit more in. But
in this instance it's really tough to I Can't Make
You Love Me has to be set in the right place,
Angel from Montgomery, and then one of the ballots from
the new album. So I I just learned how to

(01:31:51):
put together a good show. And and so there's pieces
in the show that blues. There's about four songs that
take different maybe four or five I swap out, you know,
depending on which city I'm in and who's in the
audience that are friends of mine. I might do the
Inexcess song, or I might do the Bonnie Hayes song.
You know. So there's there's ones that keep it interesting

(01:32:12):
for me. But do is there enough time to go
back and play all my favorites? No, it's very frustrating.
How many songs are rehearsed. Oh my gosh, probably forty.
I mean we have two new guys. I mean, my
older guys know many, many more than that. You know,
the guys have been with me since the early eighties

(01:32:33):
and the early nineties have know many more songs as
they've played on the records. So the two new guys,
I think they know maybe thirty five songs. Forty songs. Okay, Well,
you'll be going on the road soon. I want to
thank you so much for taking the time out. And
I'm taking my time, that's for sure. But you know

(01:32:55):
I can tell you stories of being in Jackson Hole.
I'm gonna tell the story very quickly. Then I'm gonna go.
So there's a place called a million Dollar Cowboy Bar
in jack I've only been there a couple of times,
but I know which one you're talking about. So, uh,
the stools or cowboys seats, they're silver dollars in the bar,

(01:33:16):
and they served golden Cadillac's, a drink of nineteen seventy four,
And there were girls dancing on the dance floor. This
was a weeknight in April, and I went over to
dance with him. And some guy came over and threw
me right to the floor, and you know, these are
cowboys and it's not like So I look at the

(01:33:36):
guy who want to only met that day and we
run out of there into his Ford dacottoline van which
he was living in. And first he turns the key
that doesn't start. Then he turns it again it does start,
and we're driving to Titan Village, which is about ten
or fifteen minutes. It's one of those absolutely clear nights.
And in the old days he had like a briefcase

(01:34:00):
of cassettes, and the odds of having somebody, you know,
hav any of the other than the hits were low.
And I looked through it and I saw it. Take
it my time, Yeah, And I said, I gotta play
I feel the same, and put it in the cassette
that played it under the big wyoming sky, and I'm
telling you the story. Thank you, thank you, because I

(01:34:21):
love that song, I love that recording. I love Chris
Smither absolutely. I mean, we share a lot of the
same love for the same music for the same reason.
So I'm always fascinated to read your letter. Thank you
for talking to me. Thank you until next time. This
is Bob left sex