Taylor Momsen

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.
My guest today is Taylor Momson of The Pretty Reckless Taylor,
good to have you here. Thanks for having me. It's
good to be here. Okay, you spent the last couple
of years in Maine. How did you end up in Maine.
A lot of the band is from New England, so
we spent a lot of time over the past decade

(00:30):
rehearsing up there, and I used to crash on couches
or stay at hotels, and after ten years I kind
of got old, so I finally got a place there
and uh and uh. We actually made the last record there,
so it was that that became my second home, and um,
I love it. It's great. Okay, means a big state

(00:51):
and I don't want to know the exact address, but
do you live like close to Boston near Portland's up
in the Boonies. We're in Maine area. I live about
forty five minutes from Portland, but it's on an island,
so it's very much it's very Stephen king Esk in
the middle of nowhere, very Horrorville, which I love. It's
it's right on the water, which is awesome. Um, very beautiful,

(01:14):
but very very isolated, which is it's kind of perfect
because I split my time between New York City and Maine,
so it's it's the exact opposite of New York City,
which is is great for writing when you need to
kind of get inside your own head and you know,
check out from the rest of the world. It's perfect.
And how do you get to the island. You drive,
it's not it's like there's a bridge, but it's a

(01:36):
very tiny little island with like ten houses and is
your house on the water? It is on the water.
It's actually on stilts in the water, which in the
winter can be a bit scary. Uh. There's always a
quick chance that it might collapse into the ocean, and
that can be a little nerve wracking when those gusts
are coming through. But uh, but no, it's it's very

(01:58):
cool and very very key to have found a very
unique place like that. Okay, and electricity internet cable is
all regular speed or you know, you have the curse
of the boonies. Nah, there's a bit of a curse.
The internet, you know, kind of goes in and out
the waters island water, so it's kind of crappy. Um,

(02:18):
but but it's it's also you know, it's still a
modern house too. I mean it's actually was built a
very long time ago. It was built in like the nine,
but but it's been modernized since. And are you a
loner or is this just a good place to be?
I'm I think it kind of depends on the month.
I mean we're on tour. I'm certainly not a loner,

(02:40):
but uh, I know I'm kind of a I would
say I'm a loner. I have very few friends, and
you know, very close friends, but very few. And I
very much appreciate my my alone time and my privacy,
just me and my dog hanging out and writing music.
And how far away are your bandmates? I'm not too far.
I mean the couple of our new hand sure guitar

(03:01):
player Ben's also in Maine and New York. He splits
his time as well like I do. Um, so not
not too far. But we rehearsed in Maine. I we
have rehearsal space right down the street from me, which
is awesome. We finally put that together and it's it's
very good. It's in an old armory, which is very cool. Um,
very grungy, and uh, I don't know rustic, I guess,

(03:23):
for lack of a better word, but it's it's it's awesome.
You can just make noise all the time. And we
finally set that up, which took about ten years to
get an actual official rehearsal space for us. So it's, uh,
I've been a long time coming. And what's a typical
day for you when you're not rehearsing. What's a typical
day look like in Maine? Um? Pretty boring, honestly. Uh,

(03:46):
you know, wake up, feed the dog, have some coffee. Uh,
check the weather, go for a walk, work out a
little bit, um, play music, write songs. Kind of. I
kind of stay in my house a lot of the time. Um.
Of course, when it's beautiful in the summer, I love
to swim, um in kayak. But I'm a big, big swimmer.
I do you know, lapse of for hours in the ocean. Um,

(04:09):
so that's kind of that's my main hobby. I guess that.
And yeah, wait a second, at this time of year
in June, the water is really cold. It's really cold.
It's it's even cold in August, like even in peak
swimming time. It's freezing never and we don't get that
nice California water. So you just jump in and then

(04:29):
endure the shock and wait till you adjust pretty much. Yeah,
and and you know, swim until I can't feel my
hands and feed me more. That's always a good time
to get out when you go numb. Okay, You're band
members are older than you? Correct? How much older are they? Um?
I mean that's a good question. I don't even know
their actual ages. Um, I just just a number, Bob,

(04:52):
You know this, it's all about kindred spirits and that's
how I look at it. But they're they're like ten
years older than me. Does had you know, affect frame
of references or any positive or negative to them being
older than you? No? Um, I think you know. When
we formed the band, it was they were seasoned musicians,
which was wonderful for me. Um. They they actually the

(05:15):
band came about quite organically. We um. The three of them, Mark,
Ben and Jamie were actually in a band together for
many years. And I met I was a singer songwriter,
and I was kind of doing the rounds of working
with different producers and meeting different people, and I had
always wanted to be in a band. That was always
my goal and I had had like, you know, middle
school bands and things like that, but nothing serious. And uh.

(05:38):
I met our producer Cato while doing the rounds of
meeting everyone, and we hit it off immediately, and he
introduced me to Ben, our guitar player, and threw bound
I'm at the rest of the band, and I essentially
heard their band and went, well, I just want I
want to be in your band, but I want to
write the songs and I want to be a singer.
And so that's pretty much what happened. Um. We kind

(05:59):
of just come comborn combined forces and the pretty recklessness.
So how do you write the songs? Um? I get
asked this so much and I wish that there was
a let me ask you a different question before. Do
you write them alone or in concert with the other
band members? Uh? Well, Ben and I are the two

(06:20):
song writers of the band, so the two of us
are the only writers, um, and we have a really
good thing going. I it's there's no formula, and that
that you know that presents challenges. I wish there was.
I wish there was a way too. I mean, I
know how to write in a formula, but that's just
I don't find that pleasurable. That's not that's not why

(06:42):
I make music. I make music to express myself and
when I have something to say, say it, and um,
you know, music writing music was always this outlet for me,
uh that it's where I could really be myself and
really say what I felt and what I thought. And
it was kind of this this way that I could
process my emotions and my my thoughts and my brain

(07:02):
and kind of control the world around me. I guess,
or let or let let go of the control of
the world around me. I don't really. It was just
this place where I could be very honest. Um. And
so I fell in love with songwriting at a very
young age. And when I met Ben, he had a
very similar ethic to me in writing, and it just

(07:23):
was this kind of seamless transition as to writing together.
And and there is no formula. That's what makes the challenging.
There is no it starts with the guitar starts here.
It just the simple answer is it just it starts
with an idea and that can come from anywhere, and
that's that's what makes it tortuous, as you never know
where it's going to come from or if it's going
to come and and that can be a very scary

(07:44):
um time period, especially when you're trying to you know,
write in a new record and you don't know, you
don't know where to begin, um. And so it's a
lot of waiting around. Honestly, it's a lot of waiting
around for inspiration and something to strike you and that
turns into a song. And does he always do the music,
you always do the lyrics? Or do you share those?

(08:05):
Now we share everything. It's you know, each song is
done very differently. Um, Like I said, kind of the
only common thing is that it starts with an idea
and that can be a lyric, that could be a chord,
that could be a the sky looks pretty today, like
it get start at any from any place. Sometimes songs
come in five minutes. Sometimes they take five years, you know.
So it's um, it's it's it's interesting. I like I said,

(08:27):
I always might. I have this stupid joke that I
always say, and I always say, if I knew where
inspiration came from, I'd move there. It would make my
job a whole lot easier. But unfortunately I don't, So
you just have to kind of wait around for something
to strike you. And I mean, and there's there's a process,
I guess, not a process, but a way of doing that,
which is when I'm when I'm looking to write something, um,

(08:48):
when I get that itch if I haven't done it
in a while, or when I'm trying starting to write
a new record, I surround myself with art and from
you know, reading books and watching great films and uh,
listening to great records, and you know, taking long walks
and looking at great going to museums, looking at great art,
anything that's anything that could spark some sort of an idea.

(09:10):
And by listening and looking at the greats that have
come before me that I always find that very inspiring.
It just kind of puts my mind in a in
a place, in a settled place to begin, I guess,
let's go step by step in the nuts and bolts.
And I know every story is different. Do you write
in the same room, do you either he or he
gets an idea, then you get in the same room.

(09:32):
Do you send things back and forth? I know where
there's no road way to do it, but generally, how
does it go? All of the above? I mean, I've
lived in the same apartment in New York for at
right now, for over ten years now, and so this place,
I think this place has some giju in it. Um.
I've written pretty much all of all of our songs

(09:54):
here except for the ones that I wrote in Maine. Um.
The only kind of constant is its I tend to
need isolation to write, at least at least to really
get to the core of it. Like I'm I'm always
jotting down ideas and and things, but to really kind
of hone in on what I'm trying to say and
really focus it into a song that takes That takes isolation,

(10:16):
that takes away, that takes being away from people like so,
I tend to not write complete songs very often on
the road, um, just because it's the whole. It's a
whole whirlwind of you know, a different kind of lifestyle
that I hear You're very focused on that, and so
I it I need that kind of divide and step
back from life almost to be able to kind of

(10:39):
put my brain in the right mindset. And if that
makes it okay, Let's say you have an album you
want to do, you need material. How long do you
have to be in isolation to get there. Oh man again,
I wish I knew. I mean, I think that's probably
why there's a we have some space in between our albums.
I mean this last record, Uh, I wrote over the

(11:02):
course of probably two years, three years. Um. So it's
it's I don't know. I don't. I don't do it
like that. I don't write. I don't. I guess I said,
I sit down to write a record, but it's it's
not like that. It's not like, Okay, I'm going to
write an album in the next two months or whatever.
It's more I'm I'm always writing songs, and once I
have a collection of songs that are succinct and I'm

(11:23):
proud of and fit under the umbrella of a record
that tell this kind of complete story. Um, and I
feel like that chapter is complete, then then you make
an album. If that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely so you
said earlier, this is where you can be honest, this
is where you can be free. What is the message
you want to get across. It's a very good question.

(11:45):
I don't. I don't know that I have a message
like that. I think, Um, I think, I just I
write music to express myself and it makes me feel
good and it makes me feel better about life. UM.
And I think that, you know, it's it's where I
can deal with my problems. It's where I can uh.

(12:10):
But like at this this last album for example, like
I don't know that there's a message per se. I
think by the time the album was finished and I
could take a step back from it, um and listen
to it almost from an outside perspective, I realized that
it was actually a very hopeful record. And I think
that that's kind of what the message became. UM that
after all this turmoil and very we went through a

(12:31):
lot of trauma and tragedy in the past few years. Well,
I was before I was writing the album, or while
I was writing the album, and uh, and I think
when I took a step back from that, you know,
the writing of it and the making of the album
was me processing and dealing with everything I had gone through,
and it was kind of almost like my therapy. Um.
And then when I got to the other side of

(12:52):
it and actually listened to the record it, I saw
that it was this very hopeful album. And so I
think that became the message of death by rock and roll,
of there is light at the end. Of the tunnel
if you want to see it. And you know, even
when things seem very bleak and bad, things do get better.
And and I think that that's you know, that's kind
of what that album became. So I don't think I

(13:13):
have one general message that I'm trying to convey to
the world or in part other than rock and roll
is awesome and I'm playing guitars school and writing music
is super fun. Well, you know, let me let me
there's a conundrum at the heart of some of the
greatest artists. They channel their individualism and it resonates with everybody,
but they're one step removed. They feel like they're in

(13:36):
their own space or they're alone, or like, you know,
so you certainly had a lot of success being around
other people, and certainly if you listen to the earlier material,
it seems like a reaction to that. So, you know,
do you feel like you're in your own world and
therefore you can only just uh, just tell your truth
in the songs or you're a pretty active social person

(14:00):
and then you get to be yourself, but you write
songs too. No, I kind of feel like it's the
first one. I mean, I definitely feel like like I said,
music is where I can be myself. Music is where
I can process my life. Um and and and you know,
and you can only write. You can only write what

(14:20):
you know. You can only write your experience as your life.
And you know, sometimes if you're if you're daring, you
can delve into things that you see and people that
are around you and then you can write about that.
But it's it's a very personal thing because there is
you can You're limited to only what you know and
what you feel. And that's so that's that's what I do.

(14:42):
That's that's how I I don't know, it's just it's
how I think. Like writing songs make sense to me.
Music has always made sense to me. It's just the
language that I understand, um and never really was taught.
It just was. It always spoke to me in a
way that nothing else did. And so getting to create
something from nothing and and purely express yourself is such

(15:04):
a gift. But it's also it can be very lonely
because you know, even even if people connect to it
and understand it, they never will connect to it and
understand it on the level that I do or I feel.
If that that makes sense, Okay, the band is going
on the road. Uh, is that something you like to do?

(15:25):
I do? Especially now. Well, it's it's a catch twenty
two now because COVID is still going on, but especially now,
it's been a long time, like uh, because we lost
a lot of people very close to us. I kind
of went into isolation. We made the record, so it
was about five years until since we had toured UM
and so to finally be able to play the new

(15:46):
songs off the new record and be back out on
the road in front of the fans, it's such a
breath of fresh air after a five year long break,
which was not intentional, um, but it is. It is
still challenging with COVID though, Like you have to be
very very safe, so it's uh, you kind of you
live in a bubble, so it's it makes it a
little less fun, but in one way, it makes the
shows even more rewarding because that's really your that's where

(16:08):
you get to um have all the fun because everything
else is really boring. Right, So what works in terms
of performance? How do you make the audience connect with
you beyond the songs themselves. That's a very good question. Um,
I don't know. I don't know. I don't, I don't,
I've never I'm not one to super analyze what I

(16:31):
do because I think if I start to do that,
then I'll get too in my head about it. Um.
So as far as performing goes, I just try to
sing as well as I can and and perform as
honestly as I can, and really think about what I'm
saying and what I'm singing, and and try to connect
to the audience that way, and and just by being
very honest. And then there's also a you know, an

(16:51):
element of showmanship of course, when you're on a stage
that you know, there's lights and there's just makeup, and
there's you know a bit of extra you know, moving
around that you don't do in the recording studio and
things like that. But uh, you know that that makes
for a fun show. But honestly, I think the the
most fun and the connection comes from the fans being

(17:12):
so into it, if that makes sense. And so you
can really it's this it's a it's a drug that
you can't really get anywhere else playing live because you
create this kind of symbiotic relationship with the fans where
you essentially become one in this in this nightly experience
that only lasts for one night and then you move
on to the next town, and it's it's the same

(17:32):
experience but completely different. And so that it's it's always
it's like groundhog Day, but never the same. So it's
it's very cool, it's a very it's it's difficult to
call it a job. Um, it's it's super super fun.
The job is the travel, the draw, The job is
everything around touring, but playing is simply a pleasure. Okay,

(17:53):
do you have a set list you use every night
or does the set list change? The set list is
always ever of all vena. This is this is the first,
and I won't say the first, but close to the
first time that we've actually had an issue putting a
set list together because we finally have we have so
much material now that we don't know how to hone
it down. Um, but you know, so we we put

(18:15):
together kind of a roundabout set lists depending on what
the shows are for. If it's an opening slot you
have x amount of time, a festivality of x amount
of time, and a headline show, you have obviously much
more leeway to kind of play with um and do
what you want. But so we have kind of three
set lists based on times that we work with and
then depending on the night, depending on how I'm feeling

(18:37):
and how the guys are feeling, we we alternate a
few songs and um, switch it up and and and
that's making it that's making tour and excuse me, that's
making touring very fun this time around two is that
it's not the same show every night, so it doesn't
get monotonous. It doesn't become this kind of your board
of the material by the third week. You know. Okay,

(18:58):
let's assume you are the opening band, which you certainly
have been a number of times in your career. Even worse,
you might even be playing in daylight and it's it's
really the headliners audience and you play. How do you
win over the audience? Mm hmmm, I don't know. I

(19:18):
wish I again, I wish I had a good answer.
I wish there was some little trick that you could
do that it would just magically make everyone love you.
But unfortunately that's not how the world works. So we
really just I, you know, I try to treat opening
shows or any show like it's our own show. And
that's how that's how I approach it like, we put
on the best show we possibly can, you know, play

(19:40):
the hell out of the songs, and and hope that
people like it and hope that they respond to it.
And you can't expect everyone in the in the world
to love you like that's just an unrealistic goal. So, um,
I think our our goal is to put on a
show that we're proud of, that we like because I
love playing in a band. Because I love playing in
a band. So if I'm having fun, you know, pathetically,

(20:00):
you should be having fun too. I hope that that translates. Okay,
so every act needs fans to survive, but the fans
want a lot. What is your personal relationship with fances, Like,
you know, are there twenty people you know by face,

(20:23):
you know by name? Do you want to keep everybody
at arm's length? What's the situation? Um? Well, social media
has certainly changed the relationship with fans drastically, um because
when we started a social media was around, but it
was certainly not what it is today. Um. So I
think that, you know, it's a bit of both. I

(20:43):
think there's there's some super fans that come to every
show and follow us around the country. And I, you know,
follow them on Twitter and we'll chat, and I see
their faces everywhere and know who they are. And then
there's the kind of the mass, the masses of where
I don't know you individually, but I'm very appreciative of
of your support because I can't do this without them,

(21:04):
And you know, I can still write songs and I'd
probably still be making records, but you know, no one
would hear them if I didn't have any fans. So it's, uh,
it's I feel very fortunate to have fans. And it's
a it's a fine line of because I'm a very
I'm a very private person and so I kind of
struggle writing that line with social media of how much
of my life do I share and how much do

(21:26):
I keep private? And I think that it's a it's
a balance and a kind of teetering act that I'm
always playing with and trying to get more comfortable with
sharing more of myself, but at the same time, um
keeping myself protected to a degree to where I can
still be myself. And that's not that's not for every

(21:48):
you know, that's not for everyone. Not everything about me
is for everyone. Everything everything that I put into the
music and that I put forth into the world is
for everybody. But the you know, I still have my
private life that I keep just for myself as a
human beings. So it's this fine balance that I'm always
kind of toying with, and I still haven't quite figured
it out. I think, well, if you had any personal

(22:09):
bad experience this result of fans, you know, one in
ten fans is literally certifiably insane. It's just you don't
know which one it is. We have certainly had some
some crazy experiences with fans, some that have gotten a
bit out of hand, um, more physical. I mean, well, no,

(22:30):
it's but there's been both. I mean, I don't I
can't get into it. But we've had stalker issues with
where literally the FBI has been called and been deposed
and and you know, very serious issues that I'm not
actually really allowed to talk to talk about. Um. So
there's that side of things, which is super fun and
totally totally not scary at all. Um. But then there's
you know, the crazy encounters that shows and things where

(22:52):
like we I used to bring I used to bring
fans up on stage during a song called going Down.
That was this very fun moment in the show, and
I did that for years, and we went to We're
playing in China, and I brought fans up and the
chaos that ensued on stage, the the aggression and mayhem
where it just it got a little out of hand

(23:14):
and we didn't have security and it got dangerous where
my hair was ripped out of my head a girl.
The groping became very um unmanageable where I couldn't defend myself,
and so we had to stop doing that. So there's,
you know, certain antics we had to kind of tone
down just for personal safety, physical safety and things like that.

(23:35):
But but in general, I think fans are just they're
just enthusiasts. You know, I'm a fan. I'm a fan
of music. So it's it's getting to see your artists.
You want to let loose and have fun, but you know,
just just don't go just don't go too far. Okay,
you started off with theme from television. Was that a
good thing or a bad thing for your musical career?

(23:58):
I think it was a catch twenty two. I think
I think that in in one way it was. It
was great because I had, you know, I had some
name recognition, and so when we put out the first album,
there was an immediate kind of there's an immediate attention
put on it where you know, it was put out

(24:20):
in a in a real way where you know, we
could play a show and people would show up. Um.
But in the grand scheme of things, I think that
it was actually quite detrimental because it was a It
was an extremely hard thing to overcome people's perception of
me and that you know, people saw me as this

(24:40):
character that they watched on TV every week. And I
fully understand that. I fully understand watching your favorite TV
show and seeing that actor as the character that you
see on television. They're not a real person, they're that character.
And so to kind of to disassociate myself from that
character and have people see me as myself and as
a musician and and as everything that I truly was

(25:04):
inside was was challenging. And to kind of gain you know,
there was a hurdle to kind of overcome, to gain credibility,
where I think a lot of people saw this as
like some sort of vanity project or this fleeing thing, like, oh, well,
she's putting on a record because she can and whatever.
When and when in reality, it was music is everything.
That I am and everything that I have to give,

(25:25):
and I was trying to share that with the world
and getting kind of hit from me from multiple sides
of it's hard to it's hard to prove yourself and
and because there's no real way to do it, there's
no good way to do it. You can't sit there
and tell someone no, I'm this, and they're going to no,
you're this, and that arguing about it doesn't do anything.
So it really just took time. It took to doing

(25:46):
this for ten years and continuing to put out music
and continuing to tour to have people kind of have
that shift happened where people see me as Taylor Mompson
and not this character I played, And so that was
a bit of a challenge, but it's it feels good
to be on the other side of it finally. Okay,
when you made this transition, talking about the insight, you know,

(26:07):
you have an age and maybe you have a manager,
you have an attorney, you have people are making money
from you. Okay, what did they say when you wanted
to be a musician? Oh man, they were not well
when I when I said that I wanted to pursue music,
they were all for that when I said I wanted
to quit everything else to pursue music, and that was that.
Gods of phone calls. People were not happy about that, um,

(26:31):
because it was actually it was a big fight of mine. Um.
You know, I was on the show gossip Girl and
it was doing extremely well. And I became as I
was getting older. You know, I started acting when I
was two years old. I was put into it with
my family. Um. You know, no no resentment there or anything.
You know. I think all those stories kind of got
blown out of proportion. When I was younger, I said

(26:52):
some crazy things and they got taken out of context.
But you know, I started acting when I was very young.
But it was never this. It was never something that
I chose for myself. It was something that I just
always did and I didn't really know any differently. And
when I started to get a little older in my
teenage years, I had this kind of revelation where I realized, oh,
I don't I don't have to do this, Like this

(27:14):
is a job that I can quit. And it was
like this, you know, lightning one off in my mind
where it was like, oh, this is so simple. I
can just play in a band. I can just write
songs and do what I love. I don't have to
do this other thing amazing woman to do that. And
so when I made that decision in my head and
then proceeded to tell everyone that, that's when I got

(27:35):
a bit of, you know, a bit of a reaction,
but a bit of backlash. And it was it was
actually quite challenging to leave the show because I was
under contract. So it turns out quitting was not that easy. Um,
And so it was that it was a very long
process of me trying to get out of out of
the show. And I really came down to I had

(27:56):
to call. I called Josh Schwartz and Stephanie Savage, the
Cree leaders and writers, and begged them. I just begged them.
I want this is making This isn't making me happy anymore.
This is this is this is not what I want
to be doing with my life. I'm very thankful for
everything you've given me and the platform that you've put
me on, and this has all been a great experience.
But I'm as a person and as a as a

(28:17):
growing woman, I need to go explore what I really
want to do. And they because cw the head of
Warren brothers had a c W. He was not uh,
he was not going to let me out of my contract.
So there was no way to get out of it.
And so thankfully Stephanie and Josh, actually they want, we
can't let you out of your deal, but what we
can do is we can write your character out. Um.

(28:40):
So that's what they did, and so they slowly kind
of transition my character out of by writing it that
way and allowed for me to go on tour and
and really pursue my passion. And for that, I'm just
forever grateful and indebted because they just they didn't have
to do that, and I wouldn't be where I am
now if they hadn't. So I'm just can't say thank

(29:00):
you to them enough. Okay, if you're working on a
TV show until you're on hiatus, the hours are unbelievably long,
you know, and you almost can't live a life. So
you can look at your bank account. You're getting paid,
but you're not really spending any money, not thinking about it.
And certainly once the show was picked up, it gets

(29:21):
relatively lucrative. Generally speaking, music doesn't pay that well, especially
not at the beginning. So once you got to the
other side, you're extricated, you make a record. Whatever did
you ever think, holy funk, what did I do? Or
did you say, wait a second, this isn't what I
thought it was going to be. Well, first of all,

(29:44):
I was making to speak about long hours for a second,
because yeah, they're long hours. I mean, I was making
the first album Light Me Up while I was still
on the show. So I was going to work at
four in the morning, working until about seven at night,
and then going straight to the studio and king in
the studio toel I don't know, two in the morning,
sleeping about two hours a night, and going right back

(30:04):
to work. So I was burning the candle at both ends.
And I think that was part of my decision to
leave the show as well as It's just like I
can't physically do both these things and one of them
I love and can't not do um, So that was
that was a challenge, and it's I get well now,
I just kind of lost my train of thought because
what was your question. I'm sorry, Bob. You know, once

(30:25):
you finally extricate yourself and you are a musician, did
you have any second thoughts and did you ultimately confront
money issues? Like, Wow, this is gonna be hard. I'm
gonna have to adjust things. Well. Money issues, of course,
money issues is always a I think that's something that
no matter what level of life you've reached, you're always

(30:45):
you know, I think even the biggest actors in the world,
you know, they still have money issues, right, Like doesn't everyone,
So you know that's but that's something that's something you
figure out as you go. Um as far as thinking
did I make the right decision or or asking anything
like that, that was that was never a question. As
soon as I left and was just doing music full time,
I finally felt free. I finally felt happy in a

(31:06):
way that I'd never I never really felt in my
life before. And then that's you know, that's the feeling
that I wouldn't trade anything for. You know, I'll be broken.
I'd rather be broken happy than rich and and unhappy.
You know. Okay, you grow up in Seeing Louis, how
do you end up in show business? It's a good question.
I again, none of this is from my memory, but

(31:29):
the story goes uh that I my mom had some
photographer friends who took some photos of me when I
was like one and two. They somehow got sent to
a modeling agency. Um, I got so, I got it
started with I got signed to Ford Modeling when I
was two and somewhere and going on calls for modeling gigs.

(31:51):
I I guess I was very chatty. I'm not I'm
not sure. I remember myself being a very shy kid,
but I guess I was very talkative when I was little.
And uh, my modeling agents said, you know, she should
go on auditions, and so that was kind of the
quick transition and to suddenly I was going on acting auditions.
And I actually booked my first audition, which was for

(32:12):
a commercial for Shake and Bake, and so that was
kind of, you know, the opening of the doors, I guess.
And from that it was just my my family, Mom
and I would travel and go on auditions. We'd spend
summers in New York. Um, and just go back and forth.
I was kind of in and out of school and um, yeah,
and then that's kind of how that happened. Okay, so

(32:32):
how many kids in the family, Just me and my
younger sister. Okay, the younger sister followed this path at all.
She she went on some auditions when she was younger,
but she didn't. It wasn't the same thing as it
was with me. So she did a couple of small
roles when she was younger, and then that was it.
And what did your father do when you and your

(32:52):
mother were out working? He worked. He was a full
time a full time job. I still never really understood
what he did, but when he does. He he worked
with electronics. He worked for a company called gp X. UM.
I don't know if you remember that he designed the
discman like he before computers and stuff. He would draw
the actual like what the new walkman and stuff would

(33:14):
look like. Um. So he was on the creative side
of of physical uh music players, which was actually quite cool.
And then uh, and now he works for now he's
works for another company. And I probably shouldn't go into
what he does because I don't know if he'd like that.
But but he was. He was at home working, and
my mom and I would travel. And with your mom

(33:35):
when you're two years old, that's fun. At some point,
he gets old. At some point. I don't know that
the travel ever got old. I loved going to different places.
I loved New York City because that's where it started.
Is we would we would go to New York in
the summers when I was out of school and uh,
you know, kind of rent a place for a couple
of months and I'd go on auditions and and do

(33:57):
that thing there, and I fell in love with the city.
Was so it makes it makes a lot of sense
that I still live here. Um. I love the energy
of it. And so the traveling I think was actually
quite fun. But the constantly not really being in school
and not really having a a traditional childhood, I guess

(34:17):
certainly kind of took its toll on me in certain
ways where I became very introverted because I didn't have
a lot of friends. I didn't know how to connect
to normal kids my age, I guess because I was
living in this very different life than they were, and
so it put me in this very kind of isolated
internal bubble, which is honestly when I turned to writing music,

(34:38):
I started writing music before I even really knew what
I was doing. I guess I started writing songs and
you know, just how I was feeling, and I write
it down and I put it to melody and little
poems and things as as a kid like, you know,
terrible songs, but songs nonetheless, and that's kind of where
I fell in love with it. Of this, of this
this world that I could create inside my own head,

(34:59):
that nobody he could touch, and it was just mine.
And um, it made me feel safe, I guess. So
what was it like going to school? And then eventually
when you get on a series, you're not in regular
school at all? No? Um, well in I mean elementary
school was in then out of school a lot uh where.
But I was still in school. I was in Catholic school.

(35:21):
And so when I would go do a role or something,
um and be gone for a couple of months, the
school would give me my work and I would do
it on set with a tutor. Um. So I was
technically still enrolled in a school. And then when I
moved to New York when I booked Gossip Girl, I
moved here when I was twelve or thirteen. Um, officially,
I spent about it. I spent my freshman year of

(35:43):
high school trying to go to a school, trying to
go to a public school here in the city. Um,
and just the work hours are so nuts that I
gave up on that. I gave up on that and
left and and just homeschooled and ended up graduating high
school when I was like sixteen. Um, just by doing
it on set with the tutor and just knock on
the workout. Do you have any regrets you didn't go

(36:05):
to college. No, I don't, but I thought about it.
I wanted to go for like for writing or something,
you know, something language arts or something like that. But
I also think that college is something that you can
always go back to. UM. And I'm I wouldn't say that.
I never would do that either, if you know, if

(36:26):
I wanted to learn a different skill, because I think
it's always good to better yourself, but you can do
that at any age. UM. But no, I joined a
rock and roll band. There's no regrets. What sixteen year
old doesn't want to fift I'm sorry, fifteen year old
doesn't want to be in a rock and roll band
and tour of the country. I got to do that
and it's awesome. Okay, so you're on a TV show.
What's it like having all that attention? Um? It was.

(36:54):
It was definitely different than what I was used to
because I had been you know, I had been acting
my whole life, and I've been in lots of roles
and you know, some more high profile than other but
never involved in the tabloid aspect of things. And Gossip
Girl was a that was a transition to get in,
an adjustment, to get used to where suddenly and you

(37:14):
walked out of your house there was you know, paparazzi
on the street and they're following you around and uh,
and suddenly your personal life became public literally being photographed
and put into into for public consumption. And so that
was that was different. That was strange, um because it
happened overnight too. It was very There was no like

(37:36):
slowly getting more and more famous. It was no one
knows who you are, and the next day there's thirty
people outside your house. And so it was very shocking,
I think at first. But I think I've adapted quickly
to it and and kind of got used to it.
And you know, I think Liam is Liam Gallagher. I
think Liam Gallagher said, He's like, you know, fame is
this kind of thing that you just keep keep kicking

(37:56):
over your shoulder. It's this this this nuisance. It's there,
but it's you know, it's not what it's about. It's
it's very fleeting, and it's just this thing that is
around and you just learn to manage it. Okay, A
lot of people who are very famous at that age
grow up very fast. They drink, they do drugs, they

(38:18):
have sex. What was your experience, Well, um, I think
if you listen to my albums, it's probably some indication
of what my life is like. Um But no, I
mean I I certainly grew up very quickly. Um. I
you know I've never had friends at my own age
that all my friends are older than me, even when

(38:39):
I was like a kid. Um but I think that's
just that's just subject to my surroundings. You know, That's
not that wasn't necessarily by choice. It's just the people
that I could identify with and communicate with and and
felt a kindred you know, spirit with or whatever just
happened to always be older, just due to the my

(38:59):
life circumstances. Um. So, I certainly you know I grew
up quickly, and I've I've now mellowed out in my
old age of eight. So you're writing songs from a
young age. At what point do you say to yourself,
wait a second, I can do this. I want to
do it. I think I always knew that, and it

(39:21):
was always something that I was pursuing, um, just the differences.
When you're you know, a led ten eleven years old.
You can have an acting career, but I don't think
anyone wants to listen to what a ten year old
has to say in music, at least I hope not. UM.
So you know, I had to get to an age
where I had enough life experience and I had enough

(39:41):
um enough, I had enough things to say that we're
you know, important and relevant and and get to and also,
you write a lot of bad songs before you write
good ones. It's just you know, how it goes. And
so I had to get to a place where I
actually wrote a record's worth of material that I genuinely
wanted the world to hear in and I was super
proud of and wanted to put out in a public way. Um.

(40:04):
And so that's really all it was. It was just
a lot of practice and when I finally met the
right people, formed the band, you know, wrote records worth
of songs that I was really proud of. It all
just kind of came together very seamlessly, um, in this
very chismic kind of magical way that you know, it's
very lucky in in this world. I think like it.

(40:24):
You know, finding finding musical partners and like minded people
is a challenge. And the fact that it kind of
all just everything just kind of fell into place at once,
that that's kind of that's the best way to say it.
We're just all kind of clicked and it was just
it flowed like water. You listen to your music, it's

(40:51):
what we call active rock today. Maybe I would think
that'd be the best description. And although you talk about
your influences online, the first thing I hear is a
C d C. This is very different from when a
C d C was really happening in late seventies and
early eighties, where everything mixed together. One could say that

(41:12):
hard rock is its own ghetto. Most people who have
fame in other areas going to pop okay, stuff that
Spotify Top fifty, work with producers, etcetera. How did you
decide to go? I'm sure the music led you there,
but you're a smart person. You must have realized where
you were going. I did. I didn't. I didn't. I

(41:35):
I didn't think I was that calculated. I wasn't because
I wasn't doing I wasn't making music for fame and
success like that was never my goal. I already had
that to a degree with something else, so I knew,
I had experienced that. I knew what that was, and
that was never a goal of mine. It was something
that it just was. It was. It wasn't necessarily interesting
to me. I you know, I really got into music

(41:57):
because I wanted to express myself, and rock and roll
was always just what I loved, you know, It's what
I grew up with. That's what I grew up with
listening to and fell in love with. And you know,
the depth of the music from you know, they started
they started with the Beatles, which is you know, not uncommon,
I would say, but I fell in love with the Beatles,
and then Led Zeppelin and the Who and Pink Floyd

(42:20):
and A. C. D. C. And Neil Young and uh,
when I got a little older, it was you know,
Jimmy Hendrix, and then all the nineties stuff with Sound
Garden and Nirvana and Oasis and Pearl Jam and and
and just every every band and artist that I loved
was under the genre of rock and roll where it
was just this kind of pure, the purest form of

(42:41):
self expression and an aggression and vulnerability and and it
was smart. Um you know, it had depth and it
had layers to it, and it wasn't this kind of fleeting,
you can bop your head to it music. It was
something that you could really sit with and and and
escape into and go somewhere else. And that's that's the
kind of music that I always um loved and and

(43:05):
still love and and that's the kind of music that
I wanted to make. Um that and I also just
love electric guitars because they're super fun. So okay, so
you've had I think five number one you know, rock tracks,
But you can have a number one rock track and
of America doesn't even know who you are, never mind
heard the track. Is that frustrating? I think that it's

(43:31):
a good question. I don't I don't know that I've
ever looked at it in a way of frustration. I
think that I think that there's music that deserves to
be I think that there's you know, rock and roll
has become this very niche market. I don't think that
that's a you know, a surprise to anyone, and I
don't think that that's necessarily deserved. Um. I think that

(43:54):
how do I want to say this? And you know,
to meet Rocket, you have to remember that rock and
rolls alway has been on the outskirts. You know, it's
it's never really been at the forefront of pop culture
except for in the moments where it takes over. And
and to me, music is very cyclical, like it's you know,
if you look at the history of music over time,

(44:14):
like starting with say, starting with like the fifties, the fifties,
it was very single bass, very pop um, and you know,
then the sixties and seventies came in where there was
this kind of renaissance of artists and musicians that overtook
the formula that was um did the uh the industry,
and you know, it overtook the industry this pure expression

(44:36):
where it was just undeniably great, and rock and roll
had this you know, renaissance and resurgence. And then the
eighties came in and I think everyone tried to kind
of emulate something and everything started to kind of lean
a little bit more towards the pop vein of um.
You know, there's a bit of a lack of depth
in my opinion. And then the nineties came and there

(44:57):
was your next resurgence with grunge and Nirvana and song
ern and prol Jam and where and everyone Else and
chains YadA YadA, where it just it over. It was
so raw and so honest and so just the purest
form of expression that it was undeniably great and it
moved everybody. And that's the kind of music that I
strive to make. And I think that that's the kind

(45:18):
of music that every artist strive to make, necessarily in
that genre, but music that is so passionate that it
touches people whether you want it to or not. And
I think that that, you know, and then after the nineties,
it's hard to find musicians like that, in bands that
are that great. You know, there they're anomalies. And that's
why it's an unn you know, from an industry standpoint,

(45:39):
you can't manufacture that. You can't constantly make that. And
I think that's why pop always ends up coming and
rising to the surface again. And so I think right
now we're just in the process of waiting for the
next rock and roll resurgence where it comes back because
it can't die. It's too primal. That's what rock and
roll is to me. It's it's it's so primal, it's
the ultimate freedom. And when when you hit the nail

(46:03):
on the head. It's it's undeniable, and I think that
we're just waiting for that next moment, and I hope that,
you know, we could be a part of that that resurgence.
And it's never it's never gonna look like what you
think it's gonna look like either, um, and so you know,
always keeping my eyes peeled, I guess, Okay, Pretty Reckless
has been on four different labels. How come? Um, Well,

(46:28):
it's ah, every album we've been on a different record label. UM.
Partially partially because I'm very I like to maintain creative control, UM.
And so I don't like having people in my ear,
especially from an industry side of things, telling me what
I can and can't say, or can't you can't write,
or I don't like having and only having people in

(46:51):
the studio. I don't like A and R, I don't
like I don't like people telling me what to make
and so I I found that for me it works
best to kind of create, create what I want to make,
make the album, and create this finished product and then
pass it around to the people and let them listen
and and then find the best partner for that record
and see who's the most enthused, and who's the who

(47:13):
makes the most sense, Who's who's really behind it and
gets what I'm trying to say and what we're trying
to go, what we're going for, and and who can
help put that out into the world in the best
way possible. So that's what That's kind of what's happened
with every album is I've licensed the records, I make them,
and then I licensed them to who. Okay, but usually
they want a longer commitment to go into business with you.

(47:35):
So ay, when you were with Interscope, a traditional major label,
did they want you to do things? Did they want
to get it involved creatively or marking and the way
you didn't like it? And did you have to negotiate
a split or did they only have one record or
did they say we're done? Um? Interscope was well, they
certainly they certainly wanted to push me into more of

(47:58):
a pop vein which I fully understand um, and I
was very resistant against that and very definitive in in
the music that I was making and was not going
to bend uh. And so that relationship kind of kind
of just we hit a point where it just we

(48:20):
were both going in different directions and it just wasn't working.
And I also, I thankfully have had very good management,
so who helped me kind of get out of that
out of that deal. Um. But it's basically what I've
done is I've I've tried to create a very good
team of people around me that are in my core
unit that I've selected myself over the course of um

(48:42):
a decade or so, and that's who I trust with,
and that's you know, that's where the the grand plan
you know, I wish there was one, but the grand
plans formulated and then the labels become this kind of um,
you know, addition that we add to the team on
each album based on where we're at as a unit. Okay,

(49:04):
so they got a Razor and Tie. Razor and Tie
is basically known at the time. It's now part of Concorde,
but it was independent then, primarily known for kids bop
catalog releases. They didn't have a ton of success with
their new music label. What was it like being on
Razor and Tie as opposed to Interscope. It was, that's

(49:26):
a good question. It was very in one way very
similar and one way very different. Um. You know, I
think the first thing is that we we made. They
knew what they were getting. Razor Time knew what they
were getting with us. They knew, you know, they had
heard the album. They knew what they what the product product.
I hate being called the product, but it is. It

(49:47):
is at the end of the day, they knew what
the product was. They knew what they were trying to sell.
And so you know when we met with them, UM
and Cliff the president at the time, he was just
he was very he was a music lover. He seemed
to very he seemed to stand the record UM on
a on a very deep level, which I appreciated. UM
and it and they had a it just it I

(50:09):
don't know, you know how you know how industry is.
It just kind of all clicked and it made sense.
It made sense at the time. And uh and I
think we did. You know, they did a great job
with it. Like we had our first number one on
that record. So it was, you know, we weren't under
the major label umbrella, but I had all the freedom
in the world to to to do and be who

(50:30):
and how I wanted to be. And and that's that's
what I'm going for, is is you know, I've I've
played the character. I've done the game, and I just
want to I want the music and the art to
speak for itself and I want that to which I
know is sometimes an unrealistic goal, but I want that
to be at the forefront and I want and I

(50:51):
want it to be my way or not do it
at all, because I just don't see the point if
it's not my way. And so that's kind of where
the licensing of albums seemed to make the most answer
for me and has until this point and still does so,
where I just I really don't have to give anything away.
I can. I can maintain all the artistic control, and
that's the most important thing to me. Okay, I must say,

(51:14):
as you talk, you give the impression that everything's hunky dory,
everything's great, the label's great, got out of your TV deal,
you've got a good management, whatever. But those of us
on the inside, no, it's never that way. There's a
lot of frustration, a lot of angst. So can you
tell us a little bit about that. Even the most

(51:36):
successful acts. Oh, I mean there's tons of there's tons
of frustration and challenges and angst and everything that comes
up all the time. But you know, honestly, right now,
I'm there's not really too many issues, which I haven't
been able to say for a long time because there's
been a lot of personal issues and everything is kind
of hunky dorry for lack of a better term, right now,

(51:56):
and it and it feels good to be in that place.
I mean, if I was going to go down memory lane,
which I could do, but I would honestly have to
get the band and help in here just to remember
everything because it's you know, it moves quickly, and there's
a there's a lot of a lot of stuff has
happened that to even remember all the little details. But
but no, I mean getting off the television show that

(52:18):
was not easy. That was extremely hard. That was tons
of fighting and arguing and back and forth and uh,
you know, and it eventually ended in a place that
that was pleasing to both parties. Um, it's you know,
same thing with Endoscope get you know, getting out of
a deal that didn't fit what I you know, didn't
fit the picture of what I wanted my career to

(52:38):
look like was super challenging. You know. So there's a
lot there's been lots of challenges and lots of fighting
throughout the years, but at the end of the day,
I you gotta let all that go because if it's
not currently happening, then what's the point of hanging onto it.
Like life's too hard as it is, you gotta move.
I'm a little bit of a hippie in that way, like,
move on, next thing. Okay, So today it is you know,

(53:06):
you're at the center, You're in the universe. You get
to pray, depressed taking anti depressants? Are you always upbeat too?
Your active? You know, what's your inner life like? Um?
I certainly struggle with ups and downs. Um. I think
that I always have and and I went through a

(53:27):
very bad bout with depression over the past few years
while making this album. Um, we lost many people close
to us, and that took me down a very dark
path of depression and substance abuse and and everything that
comes along with loss. Um that I wasn't equipped to handle.
And it's, you know, to make a long story short,

(53:47):
that's that's where Death by Rock and Roll came from.
It was it was me pretty much at my lowest
and using trying to use music to to pull myself
out of this hole that I didn't know how to
get out of and it. And now I'm at now
you know, I've made that record, I've I've grown a
lot in the past few years, and now I'm just

(54:08):
trying to get back to life. I guess if that
makes sense. I mean, we you know, I spent so
long in isolation and then COVID obviously you know everyone did,
but that just extended this the sentence that I had
put on myself another two years. And so now I'm
just trying to kind of get back into the world
again and see how that feels and try you know,
try those try those shoes on, because it's been a minute,

(54:30):
and you know, get back out there and tour and
play and and see the fans and um, and just
try to live. I guess a little bit um and that,
you know when I still struggle with ups and downs
and and of course like everyone does, and um, you know,
some are more severe than others. And I don't really
have a good answer to get out of it. Uh,
I wish I did. I tend to always turn to music,

(54:52):
as cliche as it sounds, That's that's where my head goes,
because it's it's somewhere that I can escape and somewhere
that I can also feel secure, and um, you know,
it's it's kind of like a I don't know, there's
there's music for every emotion and and and you know
when you scroll through when I scroll through my records,
I can always find a song for what I for

(55:13):
what I need. And and that's kind of what I
try to turn to because turning the drugs and alcohol
just that wasn't working for me anymore. That was going
to kill me. So you know, so now that's that's
what my life looks like. I'm just trying to stay
on the positive side of things and and get out
there and um live. So what a couple of year
go to records coaching records? Well, every Beatles record is

(55:37):
a mainstay. Wait, wait, what's your favorite Beatles album? I
can't pick one. I know that's because you can't pick one.
It's the whole. You know, I have one now, it's
changed from what it was earlier, So give me your
general sensibility. Um, it's it's always different. I mean, okay,

(56:01):
well right now I'm listening to the anthology a lot,
just because it has all of the all of the
different demos and all the versions of songs, which I
think is very cool to listen to and explore. Um.
I also have been why I still haven't finished it.
I think it's it's amazing. I haven't finished Get Back yet,
which I is the I think the greatest thing to
happen to cinema and ever. Um, I'm so fascinated by it.

(56:25):
I'm so in love with it. But it's taking me
forever to get through because I have to pose it
every two seconds and rewind it and just make sure
I soaked in every little moment of it. Okay, let's stop.
Where are you? I'm still I'm still about halfway through
the first one, and it's taken me about how when
did it come out? Three months? Are watching the first one?
All I can say is I find the three episodes

(56:48):
quite different. They that's what I've heard. But I'm again,
I'm only on the first one. But I'm waiting for
what did you take from what you actually saw? First
of all, just how genius it is, but but I
already knew that, but also just getting to see kind
of the full extensions. It's like the unedited version of

(57:08):
everything I've been watching my whole life, you know, to
see this footage that's existed and I've never seen before
is mind blowing. But I think that I'm taking a
lot of things from it. I think one, it's it's
amazing to see the similarities. I mean, not that I'm
ever trying to compare myself to the greatness of the Beatles,
but to see the similarities of of what it's like
to be in a band and to to be a

(57:30):
writer and to be, you know, in working with three
other people and and have that kind of camaraderie, and
that the arguments and the banter and the just the
their overall kind of demeanor is very similar to us
in a lot of ways. Um, which is very cool
to see that. You know, artists such as you know,
the greats like the Beatles are at the end of

(57:52):
the day, you know, they're human too, and and there's
and so I'm I'm just fascinated by it. Aspect you're
being is in a room or studio, what do you
argue over? Oh my god, the like everything. I mean,
there was one fight that I'll never forget where it was.
I mean, I thought it was going to come to
blows and it was just over how loud the high

(58:12):
hat should be like it was. It was intense. It
was a good twenty minute screaming match back and forth
between me, Ben and Kato and it it was and
we're not fighters, were not physical fighters, but it got close.
So that's just one example. It's we fight over the arc.
It's you know, it's a it's a let's go back
to the high hat. What did everybody? What did you want?

(58:35):
I don't even remember at this point on So this
is the first record, Um, this was light me up.
I don't remember what I actually what I wanted or
what I don't remember if we might have all been
even saying the same thing, but we just weren't listening
to each other, Like I don't think any of us
actually knew by the end of the argument, but we
were so adamant about whatever it was. I knew it
was a high hat, that it was just it got

(58:56):
very heated very quickly, and ever wanted to walk out
of the room and cool off and come back. And
then it was probably just like turn it down a
quarter of a dB and we're all happy. It's probably
something that careful. There's a theme of you wanting to
do it your way, So are you the ultimate arbiter
in the act. Yeah, well, if it's I mean, if

(59:16):
I would say Ben and I are Ben and I
because we write the songs, and so if they're if
they don't, you know, if the recording doesn't capture what
our intent was, or doesn't do the song justice to
its fullest potential or whatever it Uh, we're immensely unhappy.
And it's and it's like you're destroying our children. Um.

(59:38):
So it's it's this very you know, it's this very
tumultuous thing where it's like if you like working with
different producer, we always worked with Kata. That's why it
was is a very beatle like relationship where we worked
with the same person George Martin beatles us and Kato
because we build upon that. We built upon that relationship
and so um, you know, in a musical partnership where

(59:59):
it became symbiotic and so are our minds just kind
of intuitively worked together and we all had the same goal. Um.
And so losing him and having him pass was a huge,
huge impact. I mean, not only was he my best friend,
but he was the fifth member of the band. He
was this very integral part in the making of our records.

(01:00:21):
And so losing that was extraordinarily difficult, and trying to
replace that it was nearly impossible. And so um, and
where was I going with us? Sorry um and so
too to find that again. I don't know that we'll
ever find that again. And so that's what that's what
made this album Death by Rock and Roll very different
in a lot of ways, is that it was us

(01:00:42):
kind of figuring out how to us figuring out how
to make records without Kato, which seemed like an impossible
task I think when we started, um and luckily we
we we knew one other guy named Jonathan Wyman who
was an old, dear friend of ours who's just a
great engineer, and so we called him up. And that's
how we didn't made this together where we actually been

(01:01:05):
and I actually co produced it because we were so
involved within controlling about these songs that were so precious
and so dear that there was no um, there's no
other way around it. So I don't remember where I
started with this. I had if I had a full
circle moment, but I forgot what your question was. And

(01:01:27):
so yes, So my point, my point being, so we're
very involved in the recording and all of it where
there is no So the buck stops with with me
and Benet. It has to it has to reach a
certain level and hit a certain point in place where
we can both go, that's great the way it is,
and don't don't mess with that anymore. And so yes,

(01:01:49):
the buck stops with the buck stops with the two
of us. And I think that we're always on the
same page that we've never really gotten in an argument
about what about all the other stuff? When to go
on tour with the artwork is and all that stuff,
there's you know, well that's where the team that I've
put in place comes in to play. Um like that, Okay,
it's I know the friend who's the manager will not

(01:02:11):
manage X, will only me A not manage bands because
there's so many issues between the band. No, no, no,
we don't have that. I know what you're saying, that
we don't have that kind of um dynamic in our band.
It's because when you sign a record deal, are all
four band members on that deal are just you? No,

(01:02:32):
it's just me, it's just you? Wait? Is it just me? Honestly,
I don't even know and I should know that. Um, well,
I'm the soul it's it's it's split because it's not me,
it's not signed under Taylor Momson. So it's it's I
am the owner of the Pretty Reckless. So the license

(01:02:54):
the title that you know at the copyright, I own that.
So that's you're signing the pretty Reckless, but I am
the sole proprietor of the Pretty Reckless. Of that Okay.
So there's an advance or there are hypothetically royalties which
never seemed to show up. Everybody get uh, we don't

(01:03:15):
split it like that, but everyone does get equal shares
at the end. But it's not But like with an
advance or whatever, especially with license in the albums, it's
not that's it's not that cut and drive like here's Europe,
because it's not a three sixty major label deal, like
here's your money and we'll take care of everything. The
advance goes to making the art and goes back into
the business. So it's the deals like that go into funding.

(01:03:39):
But let's just assume you're in business and after ten
years you have to be making some money otherwise you
would stop, so you wouldn't be able to afford going
on the road. So at the end of the day,
if there's a hundred dollars, do you get fifty and
the other three with the other forget publishing, totally different things.
But on these men for the band, okay, do you

(01:04:02):
split or is it split differently? It's a case by
case basis. It's not. It's not across the board blanketed
set a deal like that. It's it depends on the
situation and where where the money is coming from and
what it's for and where it's going, and like it's

(01:04:22):
it's not. It's not as a standard deal. Like you
go on the road, you perform, forget sponsorship for you know,
just you're performing and it's merch. How is that split up?
It's it's not split by percentages like that. It's it's
it goes into the business and then whatever is left

(01:04:42):
over is split. But if they get paid, they get
I don't. I don't know this well enough to really
discuss it properly. But they don't they get paid, and
I don't know, I don't know. It's one final question.
But do they get paid a salary? Did you get
eight a salary? But it's but it's a consistent Yes,

(01:05:04):
they get paid a salary, yes, but but it's it's
constantly changing based on the incomes of the organization. Okay,
so other than the Beatles, what are a couple of
your other go to factor something easier? Uh? Well, sound
Garden is my other go to band, like my two

(01:05:24):
favorite bands on the planet of the Beatles and Sound Guarden.
So sound Garden is. But you were on the road.
You were on the road with sound Garden. Yeah, when
Chris Cornell committed suicide, What the hell was how'd you
find out? It's well, that was the start of my demise.
I guess um or my very downward spiral was the

(01:05:45):
passing of him, because that was to be on tour
with Sound Garden. When we got that phone call that
we were going to open for them, my mind was blown,
like I couldn't even I couldn't process. I was so
happy I was. That was the pinnacle moment of my
career that I could not believe we were opening for
Sound Garden. Um, I felt like I was in a

(01:06:06):
dream and and getting to play those shows with them
and be on the road with them and getting to
know them personally. It was just the whole experience was
absolutely amazing and super surreal. And we played that last
show with them in Detroit, and the next morning I
woke up to the news and it just it was
so shocking and so devastating. I couldn't wrap my mind

(01:06:27):
around it. It crushed me in a way that I
was not expecting or prepared for or could even understand. Um.
And we were still you know, we were still in
the middle of tour at that at that time, and
I we played a few shows after that, but I
quickly came to the realization and the and the point

(01:06:48):
where I was like, I'm not in a good headspace
to be on tour. I can't do this. I can't
get on stage in fain excitement and happiness every night,
Like this is just it's unfair to the fans, it's
unfair to me. Like I need I need a break.
I need some time to go home and grieve and
be a person. Um and and and and I did.

(01:07:09):
I canceled everything. I went home, and as soon as
I started to kind of get my feedback on the
ground and process the passing of Chris Um, I turned
to music. I started writing. And that's because that's what
I always do. It's this is where my mind goes.
And I was calling Kato or producer going, I've got
some songs we gotta get in the studio because it

(01:07:29):
hit all of us extraordinarily hard. I mean, one of
the reasons this band formed and why it's you know,
has the members that it does is was our deep
passionate love of sound garden Um. It was one of
the things that we connected on right away. Did you
play black hole soun on rock band? I didn't play

(01:07:49):
rock bands, but I wasn't. No, I never played any
of that. I played guitar. Was it was black hole
son on on guitar? Hero or rock band? Was one
of the famous songs from rock You're processing. Yes, I've
written some songs and like we all of us were
in this kind of depression and this funk from from

(01:08:11):
Christ's passing, and when we got to get out of this,
let's get in the studio, let's record. I don't know
what these songs are for, but I've got some stuff
like let's just move forward. We've got to try to
get out of this. And as soon as we were
starting to put those plans in motion, I got the
phone called that Kato had died in a motorcycle accident
and that that was the just that was the nail

(01:08:32):
in the coffin for me, that was that was the
beginning of what I was sure was going to be
the end. Like where I just I sunk so fast
into this whole of depression and substance abuse and just
this place of utter darkness and sadness that I couldn't
get out of and I didn't see a way out of.

(01:08:55):
And I just and I think the biggest problem was
that I didn't care, Like I was very content being
living there and and essentially fading into nothing, and and
I just I saw that as that's where my life
was going to go, and that's where I live, and
that's where I die. And that was that. And it

(01:09:15):
took you know years UM's, you know, writing this album
and stuff of me trying to pull myself out of
that hole. Because and that's why I say music saved
my life and saves my life continually, is because I
hit that point where I it was so lonely and
so low that I needed music. I needed something. And

(01:09:38):
you know, the drugs and the alcohol it wasn't filling.
It wasn't even numbing that that whole anymore, wasn't numbing
that pain. It was just exacerbating it and it and
it didn't. I wasn't doing what I needed and it
wasn't doing what I needed it too, um And so
I turned to music and it and it was this

(01:09:59):
essentially just really learned everything. I tried to kind of
ask myself, like, what, like everything I love is dead,
what's the point? And there had to have been a
point to all of this. There had to have been,
and that the point was always music. So I started
I tried to I essentially regressed into being a child

(01:10:19):
where I just I listened to the albums that I
grew up loving and and tried to find my love
of something. And from an innocent and organic perspective, I
guess of of like you do when you're a child,
when you just you don't even know why you love something,
you just do. And that's what I did with music.
I started to kind of listen to the starting with
the Beatles records and just going through, um, all the

(01:10:43):
albums I grew up loving and love to this day,
and eventually getting to a place where I could listen
to Sound Garden and have it bring me some happiness
and not just immense pain and sadness and that was
kind of a that was a turning point for me
where I could listen to those records and and there
was a spark there um and I started to feel

(01:11:04):
like I used to a little bit, just a little
bit moments, glimmering moments, and that that, you know, led
to me picking up a guitar and and playing music.
And because I was also all by myself, I didn't
didn't have anything to do, and that's so I was.
This was a long period of time, so I just
I turned to music and playing guitar and singing songs

(01:11:26):
by myself in my bedroom like I did when I
was a kid. Brought back, you know, all those feelings
that I felt when I was a child of writing music.
And that's then then this album turned into this very
free flowing form of expression where I just just once
I kind of let myself, let my mind go there

(01:11:50):
and and say out loud everything that I had been
trying to shove down and repress. Um. The floodgates opened,
and this album essentially just it kind of wrote itself.
It was just this very pure form of inspiration that
I said that it's it's it almost feels like the
first album in that way where it's just this this

(01:12:12):
uncontrollable source, Like you're always looking for the source of something,
and in this case, it was like the universe of gone.
You wanted something to write about, Taylor, here I smacked
you in the face with it. What are you gonna
do with it? And by that's how this album was
was made and written and and by doing that and
by letting it all out through songs and in songs,

(01:12:34):
it it started to heal me and you know, heal
my soul in a way that I desperately needed. And
it was not overnight like when you know, you know,
when I sum it up in this little, nice, nice
little package, it sounds like it was easy. It was
not easy. It was it took a very long time.
But at the end of the day, That's why I
say this album Death by Rock and Roll is a

(01:12:54):
very hopeful record because it it kind of covers this
spectrum of of everything that I was going through at
the time and in this very real way, um and
and it and there's no there was no hiding, there's
no hiding from it. There was no I couldn't I
couldn't fake it even if I wanted to. I passed

(01:13:14):
that point where I was I was unable to fake
living anymore, and so it just it. It came out
in the music and that's what eventually got me back
to a place of uh being here. I don't I
just got very heavy with that and I don't know
it entirely made sense. Yes it did. So what did
it look like doing drinking and doing drugs? It looked

(01:13:39):
like it looks like a train wreck. What do you
think it looked like? It was something there are people
say doing drugs. I smoked a lot of dope. Other
people said I was it was injecting heroin. I mean
there's different. So people who were drunk seven people will
get wasted two times a week. Um. You know again,
I think that that's something that I'm not quite read

(01:14:00):
you to share with the world. It I'll just leave
it it. It was. It was bad. That was very bad. Um,
and I did hit. Uh. There was a moment where
it was I had to make a conscious decision of
this is gonna kill me or so his death or
moved forward? Um, And there was a there was a

(01:14:20):
defining moment of that. But that's that's something that I
don't think I'm quite ready to talk about in depth, okay,
But the defining moment was an internal or external. It
was external and it was a very physical decision. Okay.
And during this process, were you getting professional help? Mm hmm,

(01:14:44):
not really. I mean I I had spoken to different therapists.
I saw it help, um, but I hadn't found you know,
I think therapy therapists it's such a challenge to find
a therapist that works for you. And I was moving
from the a therapist and never really found, um, the
right person for me. If so that that was kind

(01:15:07):
of a dead end for me, and not not for
lack of trying. I think at the end of the day,
I knew that it was outside help was you know,
there's only so much that I was hade. Help can do,
and then support from friends and family can do. I
had to want to change, I had to want to
make that choice to move on with life and continue

(01:15:29):
to live and and and that's a hard decision to make.
But if it had to come from me, it wasn't
going to come from anyone else. Um. And I think
that you know, it's like with anything like trying to
motivate to exercise, Like you can have a trainer and
all your friends tell you to do it, but at
the end of the day, you have to get up
and do it. And I think that that's I had

(01:15:50):
to reach a point that hit hit something that that
scared me enough to change, and I did. Ye you're
talking about this defining moment. Uh, once you hit the
other side of it, was it totally of course you

(01:16:12):
had to have of your head in the right place.
But was there a third party who called you every
day or came by every day to aid you till
you finally got traction? Or was it something you did
solely yourself? Um? No, I had help. The band helped
a lot um. You know. They they were relentless and

(01:16:33):
checking out on me. Um and you know, making sure
I was doing all right. Um not dead yet? Uh No,
So I had, I had, I had help in in
that sent in that regard where I had, I had
very close people in my life that it cared about
me um and that, you know, I'm very thankful for
and very lucky to have, because not everyone has that,

(01:16:56):
UM And so you know, I think that's that's kind
of supports us them certainly does not. It's not unappreciated
by any means, and I think that it is an
immense help. But like I said, at the end of
the day, if you want to change, it has to
come from within you, like people yelling at you or
telling you to trying to motivate you or whatever. You know,

(01:17:16):
however that might look, um isn't going to be the
thing that does it. At the end of the day,
it's just encouragement. Okay. There's a famous book by William Styrone.
The author called Darkness Visible about his time being depressed
and ultimately even going into an institution, and he said
he couldn't listen to music he was so bad. And

(01:17:38):
I've certainly been in that space. But when he could
listen to music, then he knew he was on the
road to recovery. Was there any time it that the
music didn't work before it did? That's exactly what happened.
And I'm not familiar with this book, but now I
want to read it. It's an easy book to read.
You should definitely read. Yeah, no, I would love to.
That's that's because that's verbatim what happened. When I was

(01:18:00):
my lowest. There was no Everything brought sadness, especially music,
because music with my whole life, and so anything I
put on or listened to just brought back a painful
memory or but I just hated it, or like it
brought back so many had so many different emotions attached
to it that none of which were good emotions. And

(01:18:21):
and then and they would vary on a minutely basis. Um.
But so I just I shut it out, like it
was it brought back something that I couldn't deal with yet,
and it just it was not pleasurable to me. And
it was not creating comfort. It was creating pain and
anger and anxiety and all you know, all the negative

(01:18:41):
sides of the spectrum of the wheel of emotions and
uh and so yeah, it was. There was a period
where I couldn't listen to music at all, and I
think that that was probably my darkest period because I
had never gone in a day in my life without
listening to music. It's just a part of my daily routine. Um.
And I think that that's like you said when when

(01:19:03):
you when I I hit a place where I found
myself needing it. I needed music and I had been
depriving myself of it almost unconsciously, though like I didn't
It wasn't this conscious thing where I went, I'm not
going to listen to music because it makes me feel bad.
It was just like I just didn't do it. It
just hurt and I didn't do it. And I finally
hit a point where I I felt like I needed

(01:19:25):
music like I need water and oxygen and it and
I don't know, then this primal un there was no
thought process to any of this. That just it just was.
And that's where that that's where I kind of I
started from the beginning again and I went, Okay, well,
let's start with something easy to digest. Let's start with

(01:19:46):
the Beatles, you know. And that's where it. That's where
that kind of transitioning and introducing music back into my
life through in the order of how I fell in
love with it as a child, became this kind of
very theory compeutic process to me. And and the end
of that looked like being able to listen to the
Sound Garden. And by the time I hit that point,
that allowed me to then get to the next stage,

(01:20:09):
which was playing music and writing music. And so that
was so I think I noticed it as as I
was listening to albums again that it was starting to
help me in a way, But I don't think I
really noticed any of it until I until I completed
the album and then took a step back and went, oh,
ship that was. That was a lot over the past

(01:20:29):
few years. I don't even know what just happened, um
because you can't see it when you're in it. But
generally speaking, or your glass half empty, glass half full person,
mm hmmm, I think it depends on the month. I
don't after having having this terrific experience. Okay in the

(01:20:51):
bathroom mind, I think you said, well, it could happen again. Yeah,
in the back of my mind spoke could happen again.
But I think be because of all of that. I think,
because everything I went through and all that darkness, I
am now probably more on the glass glass half full
side of things in the sense that I I look

(01:21:12):
at everything with a sense of it's not that important.
Like you know, once the once death impacks you in
a real way, it changes your perspective of everything else,
and so anything goes wrong or anything that's bad now
it's kind of like, well, it's not that bad. Um.
So so if that's what my new motto is, just
it's eway like is what it is? Man Like Oh,

(01:21:34):
it's a bad show. That sucks. I'm pissed. I'm gonna
fire everybody, you know whatever. But eway, there's another one tomorrow.
Like it's that's how you have to That's how I
kind of look at life now in in general and
until something, you know, hopefully nothing that's serious will happen again,
at least for not a lot time. But go back
to Chris Cornell for a second. I unfortunately that friends

(01:21:56):
have committed suicide, and I find the old only way
to ultimately move far forward if you put it in
a mental box, you come out with some reasoning of
what you thought was going on there. So how did
you do that with Chris? And what did that look like?
That's a good question, I think, And to think about

(01:22:19):
that for a minute. I don't. I don't. I don't know.
I haven't. I haven't dissected that one. That's a very
good question, Bob. I don't know that I have a
good answer to that, because I don't. I don't think
I've thought back on it like that in that way.
I think that I think that once honestly, Chris passing

(01:22:42):
was extraordinarily devastating and the start of a spiral for me.
But so shortly after Chris, we lost Cato, and that
that hit me in a in a way that like
I thought, Chris hit me in a way that I
didn't know, you know, hit me into the gut and
the gut that I didn't know I had. And then
but then with Kato passing, that was so so close

(01:23:04):
to home. It's so personal and so you know, such
a huge part of my life. It's such a huge
part of my life that that overtook everything. And so
I think that Chris, you know, became a part of
this whole umbrella that was loss and death and grief
and and and and it just it all kind of
lumped together in this giant everything I love is dead.

(01:23:28):
I don't see the point of life. And so it
wasn't so specifically I didn't have the time to get over,
not get over, but I didn't have the time to
fully process and cart cart compartmentalized Chris's death because Kato's
death happened so quickly after Chris' is so it all
just became this one lump of hell. Not if that

(01:23:51):
if that makes any sense. I don't mean to like
belittle or or say they're not different, but it was
so clear, were so quick next to you, so quickly, um,
one after the other, that it was just this one
to punch of pain and it all it all hurt.
There was no going like, oh my arm hurts today
and my leg hurts tomorrow. Is my whope, everything hurts

(01:24:13):
all at once. Okay, let's go and do you go
on the road now. And you've been on the road before.
Anybody who's been there knows. It is a man's world.
There's an occasional woman in the crew, and it's a
real down and dirty lifestyle. And men can really be
down in dirty when it comes to clothing, hygiene, going

(01:24:35):
out drinking. Are you one of the guys? Are you
really separate? How do you interact? And I'm definitely one
of the guys. Um, you know, I've aside from the
fact that I have dresses. Uh, I'm one of the guys.
I think. Um, we actually looked out quite or I

(01:24:56):
don't know if we looked out, but we're a clean band. Um.
We all appreciate hygiene in this group, so we never
had to worry about that that kind of problem, um,
which I think would have been my my biggest complaint.
But no, as far as like traveling and touring and
living and um just being together. It's it, we're all
we're all very like minded. It's it's it's so just

(01:25:17):
it's very easy. It's very it's one, you know, big
family for even as cliche as that sounds, it really is.
And I think that, you know, just the longer every
year that goes by, the closer our bondas and the
and the the easier everything gets. And it's just it's
it's only gotten easier as time has gone on, which
I think probably isn't the case for every band. Okay,

(01:25:39):
so you talked about this hole you're win with drugs
and alcohol. Are you sober or do you still drink something?
I'm mostly sober, Um, I'm I never got into you know,
the programs um that just to teach their own um.
But I and I mean I occasionally all occasionally. First

(01:26:02):
I smoked weed, Um, so I smoked lots of weed.
But but no, I don't. I'm I'm mostly sober, like
very Okay, So you don't. I haven't had a drink
in two years. Okay, so a year and a half
or whatever. Well let's talk a little bit before that,
before all these tragedies. You play a gig, you're staying
in a hotel. One of the band members says, I'm
gonna go hang out at the bar. Are you gonna

(01:26:23):
go hang out at the bar? Oh? It's first of all,
the party. It's a really fun party until the party
takes its toll. You know, there's there's your way to
say it. Oh yeah, No, it was a blast in
the beginning, but you know, like anything, and it turns
on you. Okay, needless to say. Uh. Prior to cell

(01:26:45):
phone cameras, a lot of guys got into rock and
roll for the sexual opportunities, and they are legion. What's
your experience being on the road. Um, well, that's not
why I got into it, so it's probably different, you know,
different priorities. Um, I mean it's I don't know, it's

(01:27:09):
been pretty It's very isolated in one way, like touring is.
It's it's so his bubble and we're so focused on
the show itself that um hm, it's not like that.
I mean, I don't like do I don't ask a
more specific question because I don't really know you have
a boyfriend or a girlfriend. Um, I'll leave you a guessing.

(01:27:35):
I don't know one, but let me ask generally, I
just don't like to looking for gossip here. Are you
someone who tends to go from a relationship to relationship
or someone who tends not to have a relationship, or
someone who has long spells in between? Um, I'm either No,
I'm certainly not a relationship to relationship person. I'm not

(01:27:56):
like I don't jump around. I'm a I'm a loyalist.
I'm a loyal person heart um, loyal with the people
I work with them, loyal with my personal relationships and
nuts um because I find you know, when you find
someone you can trust and truly be yourself around in
any capacity, whether that's romantic or business, you hang onto
that for dear life. So that's that's kind of how

(01:28:16):
I've always lived my life with very few people in
my life, but very close people. So what's more sexist
rock and roll or the TV business? Oh? Interesting question.

(01:28:37):
I don't know, they're probably like probably equal. I think
it depends on what you're talking about specifically. I mean, like,
there's there's definitely more women on television than there are
in rock and roll, But I don't know that that's
is that sexism or is that just that there's less
women in rock and roll because if you look at
the pop charts, it's all women. So I don't you
know women in music or I think I think the

(01:28:58):
sexism side of you if you listen to like Joan
Jet or someone who's um, you know, been doing this
for a very long time. I think that the the
sexist side of things has certainly changed over time. Like
I've never felt I've I've felt moments of sexism in
in music, but not to the degree that I think,
you know, women like Joan and stuff had to deal

(01:29:20):
with UM. It's much more I don't want to say inclusive.
But I also just I don't look at it like that,
Like I don't see myself as a a chicken a band.
I see myself as like I'm a I do what
you do. I see my as what all the guys do.
I don't see I don't see gender like that. And
you know, and I don't. All of my idols have

(01:29:41):
always been men, and it's not because they're men. It's
because I love their records, you know. It's it's not
so I've never looked at genders this kind of divide,
And maybe that's naive of me. But I just see
it as the best songs, the best song with the
best artis of the best artist. I want to be
like them. I want to be like that. And so
I don't. I don't like to put the and only

(01:30:02):
to focus on that. And and so because I think
I don't focus on it, maybe I don't even notice
it when it's happening, if that makes sense. That makes sense.
But let's broaden it a little bit, just more of
a me too thing. Uh. Any woman, never mind, a
very attractive woman like yourself, has men hitting on them
all the time. Okay, and if you have a profile

(01:30:25):
first on a TV show, in a band, okay, that
is amplified. So almost everybody in those walks of life
has me two stories? Do you have? Me? Two stories?
I have? I have? I have uncouth and un Yeah,

(01:30:48):
I have uncouth encounters with with men, um of course.
But I also think that every it's unfortunate and it's
very sad. But I think that any woman of a
certain age has been very uncomfortable sexual situations and at
some point in their life. Um, probably most people have. Honestly, UM,
So I don't I again, I don't want to get

(01:31:09):
too into that. But of course, of course I've had
uncomfortable situations that you know, in inappropriate situations of things
that shouldn't have happened the way that they did. But
on as far as the like getting hit on and things,
I actually find it funny. I don't get hit on
very much at all, and I don't I don't know
if that's I think a part of that is because
I built this, like there's this protection around. I roll

(01:31:30):
around with four giant men with me all the time.
That's very intimidating, Like I have this force with by
being in a band of this of this crew of
people that I roll with all the time. So I'm
never I'm very protected in in this. Um. I don't
know what we're kind of imposing. I guess when we
were a force when we when we walk in together,

(01:31:51):
and I'm never really boy myself, so um it would
be so I just I don't think I experienced that
in the same way that maybe some people do. Thought, well,
what about everyday life. You're in New York City. I'm
in New York, but I'm I don't know, like I
love New York because it's you're in the middle of
a billion people, but you can also completely hide. Um

(01:32:13):
you know, it's in New York can be whatever you
wanted to be based on the minute. And that's why
I think it's so amazing that you can walk, you know,
one corner and walk one block and you're in the
heart of it all and turn another corner and you're
in the middle of nowhere. And I think that that's
so cool. And so it's it's very easy for me
to kind of hide and and live very normal normally
in in New York. And I don't know, especially with COVID,

(01:32:36):
I don't go out, I don't do anything. I'm a
homebody and very boring. Um so I'm yeah, it's I
go for long walks and you know, who are you
meeting on a walk? Would you ever say to yourself, Oh,
you know, I need food, but I'm not gonna go
to the market at this hour because I'm gonna have
to deal with the public there and people gonna you know,

(01:32:56):
try to hit on me or talk to me or whatever.
Um yeah, I mean, not the market. But there's certain
areas in New York, like if you don't want to
be photographed or you don't want to be bothered by
you know, paparazzi or ebayers or people like that, or
people who might notice you you don't go to soho
on a Saturday, like you know, there's there's areas where

(01:33:17):
you just you know, to avoid um. So, yes, there's
there's certainly times when you when you think that to yourself.
But as far as just like going to the grocery store, like,
I'm just a person will go to the grocery store.
I'm not that I'm not that fussy. Okay, how about
if you leave the house. You know, I was at
a private situation with a household name and who came

(01:33:39):
looking like she just walked out of, you know, a
movie set. And I said, this is a sentence. She's
known as a beauty. She has to leave her house
every day and make herself up by the same token.
I have another friend who was on television, went to
pick up food and somebody came up to said, aren't
you so and so said yeah, he said the person said,
you look like shit. So do you feel that pressure? God,

(01:34:03):
if I'm leaving the house, I gotta put my look on.
I certainly did when I was on television, when I
was on Gossip girl. I felt like I could. I
hated leaving I didn't leave the house with makeup. I
always had an output, an outfit together. Part of that,
I think was that I was young and I actually
really enjoyed expressing myself through fashion and makeup and things

(01:34:24):
like that from the visual standpoint. Um. But also I
knew it as my picture was gonna be taken and
when I walked outside, So who wants to look like
shit and photos? Um? But I think as I've gotten older,
I've become much more relaxed in general about image and
how I'm perceived and walking around New York and stuff.
I don't I don't care, I don't like. I mean again,

(01:34:46):
like I'm not going to go to one of the
areas of New York that there's always paparazzi hanging around
looking like crap, just because why would you do that
to yourself? But just like leaving my house in the
in the daytime, like I'll leave the house and looking
quite normal and very average. Okay, So if you're a homebody,
how you spending the time? You're watching television? You're reading books? Yeah?

(01:35:09):
Watching tv? I mean we uh, we haven't been home
from tour. Too long. So it's I'm actually just kind
of I've got a lot of errands and chores and
things that we're getting ready to leave again here soon.
So it's a lot of like unpacking and repacking and
things like that. Um, but yeah, I watched television playing music. Um.
I walk a lot. That's the other thing I do

(01:35:30):
in New York. I go for a mile long walks
every day and just um people watch and and enjoy
the city and the the energy that is that is
New York. That there. You know, I've literally been around
the world and there's no other place that even comes
close to it. Like I love New York so much.
It's so special and so different and so exciting and

(01:35:51):
so it's it's the best. And so I'm never bored
in the city because you can even if you're doing
absolutely nothing, just all you have to do is walk
outside and you you're watching a movie. Like is true.
But you know, living in I grew up in the
East Coast, fifty miles from New York City. But you know,
the East New Yorker comes to l a looks around us.

(01:36:13):
I don't get it. You know, you gotta use your car.
There's not this that New York City greatest city in
the world. In the world, buddy, Angelina would say, New
York City, greatest city in the world, but I'd rather
live in Los Angeles. Well, see, that's where I was
talking to Margaret before we started talking, and then I
was saying, Los Angeles is like that. I've all pretty

(01:36:36):
much all of my friends who used to live in
New York now live in l A. And they love it,
and they're constantly trying to convince me to move there.
They're going, you're crazy, you're missing out. It's beautiful, the weather.
And I go to Los Angeles. I stay there for
about a week. The first week, I'm going, this is amazing.
It's sunny every day. I know exactly. I don't need
to wear a jacket. I gotta it's awesome. The energy,

(01:36:56):
the vibe that's so positive and great. After about two weeks,
I'm so done and so ready to be Like for
the first two weeks, I'm ready to move there. By
the time third week comes around, I'm like, if you
don't get me back to New York City, I'm gonna
go absolutely crazy. I need the grit. I need the grime,
I need the I don't want to feel like I
have to wipe my feet when I walk outside to

(01:37:17):
make sure my shoes are clean for your sidewalks, like
I want, you know what I mean? I don't know.
There's just something about New York that I can't I'm
I fell in love with it when I was young,
and I just don't think i'll ever look I feel
about New York exactly about you know, you go to
the East Coast. God, why am I living in l
A blah blah blah. But after a period of time,
I can't wait to get back to l A. I

(01:37:38):
get it. Maybe one day, maybe one day, Los Angeles
will become my new home, but not yet. I also,
after spending five years in Maine um in the complete
and utter isolation, I think the the mayhem of New
York City is very refreshing. I was New York only
works if you can get out. Mhm. If you're an artist,

(01:38:00):
you don't have that much money, you're there seven week
after week, it becomes oppressive. Yeah, it certainly can if
you can get to Maine whatever. Okay, so whish. On
the other side, if you're spenting twenty hours a day,
I would see I would say. The opposite is spending
twenty hours a day in Maine became extraordinarily oppressive. Where
it was, it was torturous to be that one of
the few people's lived in the country. Now, granted I

(01:38:22):
lived in the country prior to Amazon, the Internet, I
mean FedEx, so you're living in the boonies. And then
the other thing I don't like about living in the countries,
everybody knows your name. I like the anonymity. Everybody you
don't know who I am. You don't know what I'm
up to. It's really you know, and you don't have
to say hi to the same person without talking to

(01:38:44):
him for twenty years. There's no small talk in the city.
It's the best, right right, Yeah. On the New York place,
it's oh yeah, good to see you. Okay, bye. So
you're in New York. Are your parents still in St. Louis? No, No,
my family we moved to uh we moved from St.
Louis when I was nine or ten ten um to

(01:39:07):
Maryland because my dad switched companies or jobs, and so
I lived in Maryland. Because my family still in Maryland,
I have to make that I don't know what what
does your she well she's very private and we'll let
me talk about her. Um, but she is doing Wait,

(01:39:29):
she she went to college. She's very smart, she's very
uh driven, she's very beautiful and sweet and wonderful, and
she's uh, she's currently in living life and figuring out
what she wants to do with it. Um but I
but she will literally kill me if I say anything
more than that. But she's doing great and she's on
her Okay. So, someone who spent all that time with

(01:39:52):
your mother and absent from your father, what's your relationship
with your parents now, both in quality and frequency. Um.
I don't see my family very often. Um, you know,
we have kind of a texting relationship. I guess. Uh,
they you know, have always been very supportive of what

(01:40:12):
I do. But I think that are you know, as I,
as I got older and kind of moved into my
own world of creation, Um, that they weren't really integral
in and a part of you know, we certainly drifted apart.
And so you know, I think our relationship is it's
all right, it's good, you know, it's it's fine, but

(01:40:33):
it's it's not super involved. You've had this career other
than Jared Leto and you may have more number ones.
You're the only person who really made success of the
last couple of decades was first on television, So you've

(01:40:56):
proved it. Yeah, staying party of that success. What do
you want now? Oh man, that's a really good question.
I should probably think about that more often. Uh, you
know what I want now? Um? I want to have
a good time all the time. That's what I want.
So that's that affairs. I want a good time all

(01:41:17):
the time. UM. I used to say the same thing
in my life at one point. I feel like it's
usually after the traumas hard. It's been some hard years
and I just want things to be easy and fun
and good and I want to have a good time, um,
which is why I and I mean that. And I'm
looking forward to the next couple of months because the

(01:41:38):
touring is a good time and I hope it remains
a good time before it's it's We're very excited to
get back out on the road and go to Europe again.
We haven't been to Europe and years and we're doing
that in October. And finally we're starting to transition into
becoming an arena band. We're playing our headlining our first
arenas in Europe, which is very exciting. So just I
just want everything to keep kind of growing and aggressing

(01:42:00):
and and moving forward in a in a positive good way.
And I and then I want to get back in
the studio and I want to make more music. I
want to make another record, and I want to, you know,
kind of not close this chapter, but um, you know,
but take a step forward from it, and I think
and and and just see where life's gonna take me.

(01:42:22):
I don't I mean, I don't. I don't know. I haven't.
I don't have it all planned out. But um but
I would like to continue to make music, and I
would like to continue to better myself as an as
an artist and as a person and and do that
on a you know, minutely and daily basis. What do
you think about the game, Because a lot of artists,

(01:42:43):
especially in rock, bitch about the game, the streaming, Spotify,
the playlist, the payments, the radio. But um, well, I
read your letters on it all the time. I think
that I think that I haven't gotten to involved in it.

(01:43:04):
And that might sound stupid, but I think that I
just try to. I think that I think that you've
got to make I don't know what I think. I
don't think. I don't think I'm smart enough to talk
about this one to you. That's what I think. I
think that I don't know enough, even though I should
because I've been doing this a long time. I don't
think I know enough to speak in a in a

(01:43:27):
in a conversation. But is it something that bothers you?
Yes and no, But I don't know that it bothers
me on a on a specifically, I bought streaming. Is
this weird thing? I have this love hate relationship with
streaming where, you know, in one way, I think it's
wonderful that everyone has immediate access to here music and

(01:43:51):
you know, I you streaming. I listened to it. I'm guilty, um,
you know, because it's so accessible, it's right there, um.
And I think that that's wonderful because music should be
shared and appreciated and listened to at nauseam. On the
other hand, I am, you know, call me old school.
I really appreciate the album, and I you know, that's
what I grew up with. That's what I love where
you really kind of delve into the art in this deeper,

(01:44:14):
more meaningful way when you listen to records and it's
and it's not this fleeting, quick little thing. It's it's
something that's important and it has value um past past
just a fiscal value, but like it has it has
actual value, has physical weight when you're holding your hands.
It has importance and and it's you know, it's it's
like a it's a film, like it's it's it's worth something,

(01:44:36):
and it's it's soulful and there's something to that that
I feel like it's getting lost in the modern paradigm
of music where you're you're missing this it's it's so
it's so much, it's so much all the time that
I think that the importance of what music can be
is getting lost to a degree, or can get lost

(01:44:57):
in a in an easier way. Um, whereas the you know,
the album was something that encapsulates a time period in
a moment in life, and you know of that artist
where you can really get inside the artist's mind and
and understand them, and by understanding them, you you understand
yourself more. And you know, it's that whole symbiotic relationship
with music and being a listener that I think is

(01:45:21):
starting to get kind of dolled down because the importance
of records and albums. With streaming, importance of music itself
is becoming, so there's so much of it, I think.
But I think it's the same thing with television too,
Like there's just there's so much accessibility and there's so
much product that it's overwhelming, and it's hard to find
the real gems that that can change you as a person. Instead,

(01:45:46):
you're you're infiltrated with, you know, a flux of tons
of stuff that that isn't necessarily a bad thing. I
don't I don't know. I I know that I still,
even though I'm guilty of using streaming, and I still
use streaming to listen to the records that I that
I've always listened to. So I don't know. I don't
really know what I think of it. I think that

(01:46:06):
I think it depends on what you grew up with
and how you how you use it, because I also
think everyone uses streaming differently, so it's I don't think
that you can put a blanket um some up with
streaming good or streaming bad. I think it depends on
the on the person and specifically what you know artist
or moment or thing that you're talking about Okay, so

(01:46:26):
there's a great queen song which doesn't get that much airplay,
but I love it, which is I want it all,
I want it all, I want it all, I want
it all, I want it now. Okay, so I was
literally listening to that like three days ago. I'm forgetting
Traditionally musicians would sacrifice money to have more people other

(01:46:49):
than Gene Simmons, but have more people listen to their music.
Do you say, well, you know Spotify tip top fifty,
it's hip hop and pop. But shure that's where I
want to be. No, no, no, no, I I mean
I no, because I don't fit on that list. Um,

(01:47:09):
I make a different kind of music. I think that
I would love for you know, our band The Pretty
Reckless and you know rock and Roll two be at
the forefront of those lists. Sure, I would love for
you know, the whole world to think that rock and
roll is the greatest thing in the world, because I
think they should think that, um and have it be

(01:47:29):
you know, the most played, most popular thing in the world.
But you know, but I'm also understand that it's not
always that. It's not that simple because it's not crafted
for that. It's not meant for that, that's not what
rock and roll is. Rock and roll is it's meant
for the underdogs. It's meant for the you know, the
the people are trying to find their place and you know,

(01:47:50):
are a little more. Yeah, and I don't I don't
like to sum everyone up in one thing. But you know,
it's it's smart, it's thoughtful, it requires thoughts. It's meant
to make you think. It's meant to make you feel
in a real way. Um, and that's not what people
want all the time, like which you know, it's that
pop music is very accessible and you can put it

(01:48:11):
on in the background. I'm not trying to make background music.
It's just not what I do. Okay, going back to
social media, we've established that you keep part of yourself
removed from social media. But to what degree do you
post which platforms? You do it yourself or you have
a team, And then what are your thoughts about TikTok um? Well,

(01:48:37):
I I run all my own socials. I'm pretty terrible
at it. I still like but no, it's it's me
like Instagram and Twitter and uh and Facebook is linked
to Instagram and Twitter. Those are all me directly posting.
Um and then the band sites are the four of
us posting, so we all have logins to those. UM

(01:48:59):
and TikTok is something that you know, everyone in the
industry says you should be on and get on, jump
on board with I have one I have at Taylor
Momson on TikTok. I don't have a lot of posts
because I haven't quite figured it out. And uh, but
you know, I think it's it's just content, right, That's all.
That's all anything is. It's just constantly posting something that's

(01:49:22):
kind of how I see it. And so I just
try to focus that on UM sharing a little bit
of my life and what I'm doing, but you know,
keeping it focused on on the art and the music
and UM, you know that side of things, because that's
that's what I want to share. But is there anybody
on your team or yourself who says, oh, there's a
track on this album and if I cut us ten

(01:49:44):
second spot with this, there's a chance that'll catch on.
Oh no, we're not that calculated. I probably should get
someone on my team that things like that though. With
the Internet is moving so quickly, I should probably get
someone who's on it. Okay, Taylor, I think we've come
to the end of the feeling we've known. I want

(01:50:04):
to thank you so much for taking this time. I'm
glad that you're back from your unfortunate hole in the world,
but good to talk to you. It's great to talk
to you. Thank you so much for doing this, Bob,
It's it's I've been reading you for years and it's
so nice to finally speak to you semi face to face.
You bet Okay, until next time. This is Bob Left

(01:50:28):
Sex

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Bob Lefsetz

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