AMY: Peeing in Public, Fertility Struggles, & Shame vs. Guilt

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
All right, break it down.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
If you ever have feelings that you just falls home,
Amy and Cat got your come and locking m probably
ladies and polos, do you just follow on the spirit
where it's all us front over real stuff, tell the
chill stuff and the m but swaying. Sometimes the best
thing you can do it just stop you feel things.

(00:27):
This is feeling things with.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Amy and Cat Happy Tuesday, feeling things. I'm Amy and
I'm Cat, and I guess we should say how to YouTube. Hey,
hey YouTube, we are on YouTube now, so we feel
very exciting everybody.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
Watching us on YouTube?

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Hi Mom, Hi Dad, I.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
Just drink He's actually probably not what she's hitting.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
My parents have both past but I'm sure your parents
are watching.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
I don't think my dad's ever been on youtub before.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Well, dang it, you need to get him an account
so that he can subscribe.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Okay, well this is.

Speaker 4 (01:06):
The day to subscribe though, because today we are talking
about shame and guilt, Big day, big day feelings that
really need to be talked about together because we can
confuse them a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
I definitely do, and I think a lot of us
feel one or both things on a regular basis. But
before we get into guilt and shame. I want to
get to the feeling of the day. We didn't even
practice that. I think it's we're just finding our groove,
but our feeling of the day is embarrassed. And this

(01:38):
feeling came about because I was on the tortilla aisle.
Well I wasn't even getting tortillas. That just happened to
be on the aisle in which they sell tortillas at
the grocery store when suddenly I got this urge to pee.
And we've talked about our pelvic issues before, way back
in the day on the fifth Thing before we turn

(01:59):
into feeling. So if you're just tuning in, you're like, wait,
what happened to four things? If they mean around? Well,
Kat was my co host on the fifth Thing, and
she's a licensed therapist, and I knew I wanted to
pivot the podcast somehow, and we were having so much
fun together. So here we are with feeling things, and
we were talking about pelvic issues a lot on the
fifth Thing. I don't know if it's just an age

(02:21):
thing because I've never given birth. I knew that there
was bladder pelvic issues. If you've been pregnant and you've
given birth and then all of a sudden you just
start peeing. But I have not been pregnant and I
have not given birth, but yet I am still having
pelvic bladder issues.

Speaker 4 (02:39):
And well, part of that is I'm no doctor, but
could be also because you hold.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
Your pe yes for very long periods of time.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Working in radio, I have had to hold my pee
a lot, and then when I sprint to the bathroom.
I also because our work restrooms are public, I don't
sit on them and I don't have time to lay
out the line, so I squat, and they say squatting?

Speaker 3 (03:03):
Is that?

Speaker 1 (03:03):
So now I think I'm answering my own question as
to why I'm I'm at the grocery store and suddenly
I have this urge to pee, and I have no
choice but to either pee right there on the on
myself in the aisle, or I squat down and just
sit there, squatting, kind of holding it in until it passes.

(03:26):
So I'm down there, eye level with all the tortillas,
acting like I am sorting through the tortillas. I'm like, hmm, okay,
I don't want I don't want this kind oh like
I am acting because I'm like people are onto me
like they're like, either this girl has to pee or
she really is looking for a specific tortilla, and I

(03:46):
was hoping for the latter. I needed them to think
that I was on the hunt for the perfect tortilla.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
Did you get tortillas?

Speaker 1 (03:54):
No?

Speaker 3 (03:56):
No?

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Eventually I just like I was like, Okay, I think
the sensation has passed, so I can and then go
stand up.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
Of course not.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
I waited till I got home because the sensation passed
and I just wanted to get the heck out of
there and get what I needed and then go. I
didn't even know where the restroom was in this grocery store. Like,
just the sensation passed, so I knew I was in
the clear. Luckily, it didn't come back until I got home.
Until I got home, and then I had to run
to the bathroom.

Speaker 4 (04:21):
But this also, I don't know if you told the
story on the fifth thing or if you just told
it to me. But wasn't there a time you're in
an elevator and you just like squatted down and acted
like you were looking.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Yes in my bag Because the elevator started going up
and the peace started coming out, and I was like,
oh my gosh, oh my gosh, my gosh, I'm gonna
pee my pants. So I squat down in the in
the elevator. Other people were in there, and I'm like digging,
you know, but I'm doing the thing where I'm digging
my heel into my top, you know, just to create

(04:52):
like you're not coming out.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, a stopper.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yeah, I created a It works. So that's my tortilla
spots to And I was.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
You were internally embarrassed because nobody could tell you were no. No.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
But I really feel like sometimes if there's grocery store footage,
like video cameras where they're watching people on the aisles,
like when they were watching, they knew because they saw
me like and then squat and then and then as
people would come. Only when people would walk by, would
I really start inspecting the tortillas. But if like they passed,

(05:27):
it'd be like, okay.

Speaker 4 (05:27):
Okay, we're going to get you into some pelvic floor
I know, just even get some like tips of some
exercises you can do on your.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Own, right, which we talked about my friend Tiffany. It's
literally what she does. She's a pelvic floor specialist. And
I don't think I've ever had a full appreciation for
God's work that she's doing because I think now I
need it. Yeah, okay, I need it in a big way.
So that is my embarrassing story. And that's why I'm
being embarrassed as this feeling of the day. And so

(05:56):
I don't I don't know what do we do with embarrassed,
Like how do we lean into it? Is there a gift?

Speaker 3 (06:05):
Laughter? Thank you? We laughter there?

Speaker 4 (06:07):
Embarrassment usually comes in from the shame category because when
we get embarrassed, it's like, oh my gosh, like we
have like these negative stories in our head. But through time,
I think we can look back on the stories that
were really embarrassing and now I can appreciate them and
laugh about them, and like.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
We shouldn't feel shamed about that because everybody's peed their pants.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
At some point in their life, right, which.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
I didn't pe to clarify, but.

Speaker 4 (06:32):
But I think there's like there's an internal dialogue. I'm
thinking of a story that happened last week that there's
this internal dialogue that automatically pops up that says, this
is embarrassing.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
You're so you're what a loser? Or whatever your voice
says and.

Speaker 4 (06:46):
Then I have to come back with another voice that's like,
actually nobody cares, so then that story just gets to
be funny. I was working out last week and the
class I think it was on Saturday, Yeah, Saturday. The
class was kind of.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Small, usually not very small. This girl walks in and
I'm like, oh my gosh, I know her.

Speaker 4 (07:07):
And the last time I saw her, I was walking
in the Target parking lot and she called out. My
name was like Cat, So of course I was like,
she's gonna say hi to me. Well she doesn't, and
we were in different stations, so I was like, maybe
she doesn't want to like interrupt me or whatever. So
the whole class, I'm like, this is weird. She feels
like she's avoiding eye contact with me every time I tried.
You know when you're trying to get somebody's attention and

(07:27):
you keep looking at them thinking you guys are gonna
like and then you never do.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
But then it feels like she kept like avoiding it.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
So then you're like, what did I do to her?

Speaker 4 (07:35):
Or yeah, or then I'm like what if it's not her.
She was wearing a hat, but this girl always wears
a hat, so then Finally we were switching stations and
she was putting her weight up and I needed that weight,
so I was like, this is my chance. So I
went up to her and I like walked right in
front of her, and I like, I think I put
my hand up like hey, and then she made a
face at me and she said something like how are

(07:56):
you today or something like this girl she didn't know
who I was at all, so I.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
Just didn't want those things. So I was like, hey, oh,
I will take those weights, don't mind me, and she
was like how are you today? And I was like, oh, great, thanks,
I'll take those weights.

Speaker 4 (08:11):
And then the rest of the class, I'm like, did
she think I was trying to say hi to her?

Speaker 3 (08:15):
Did she think that or did she whatever? Was that awkward?

Speaker 4 (08:18):
And then as we're lieving, I'm like, this girl's never
going to think of you again ever until she sees
me in class again. But it was embarrassing in the moment,
and I told myself a story of you should be ashamed,
and then.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
I that you were trying to be nice to say
hi to someone that you thought they were and then
they weren't, Like it's not a big deal.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
But that also we build it up.

Speaker 4 (08:37):
Yes, and it comes from one of my Uh I
wouldn't say greatest fears, but most common fears, because this
wouldn't be the biggest deal in the world. It's people
not remembering who I am, so saying hi to somebody
and them being like do I know you?

Speaker 3 (08:52):
Which I've done before.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, do you know that when you're meeting someone like
a way you are? How do I say? This's like
you're not meeting them. Let's say you've already met them,
but you don't know if you have, and there's confusion
you can say, and so saying oh, nice to meet you,
you say good to see you.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
Maybe that's what that girl was saying to me.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, well that's just like like a tip for having
your back pocket of like, oh, I don't really know
how to handle this, and you'd be like, oh, good
to see you, and that way it covers all your
basis because then if you say, oh, nice to meet you,
then they're like we've met like three times, and then
you're like, oh, shoot, that's right. But if you say
good to see you, like you're still saying good to

(09:36):
see you. If you're not saying good to see you again,
you say just good to see you, yeah, because if
you say good to see you again and they're like,
we've never met, then it's like, oh.

Speaker 4 (09:43):
So if anybody ever says good to see you to
you're a trick.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
Speaking of embarrassing things, did you see that thing on
Instagram where rumor Willis was talking about bathing with her
older siblings, which I'm not embarrassed for her at all,
Like if that's what they're into or that's what they
do and their family are embarrassed, but I think I
I just was thinking how I would feel bathing with

(10:11):
my older siblings and I would feel embarrassed getting naked.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
Then there'd be some shame coming up if you yeah, yeah,
I just didn't know if you saw that, and it
just popped into my head of like, hmmm, is that weird? Yeah,
I'm let me see.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
I'm gonna pull up.

Speaker 4 (10:29):
I don't want to say because I don't know the
circumstances of this just blanket statement. It does sound mm intercerning, interesting,
it's interesting, yes.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Okay, questions so okay, she said, Okay. It says rumor
Willis said she still takes bath with her adult sisters.
She said, that's just the kind of house I grew
up in. People may think that's crazy and weird, but
I don't.

Speaker 4 (10:56):
But how old is she? They're adults, like thirty? Yeah,
how big is your bathtob hmm, good question. I imagine they
have have very wealthy parents. Maybe it's large. But also why,
yeah I could. Yeah, those are the questions.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Why is probably we need to know, a question, we
need to know.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
I want more information.

Speaker 4 (11:16):
But when I also was thinking about too, if you needed.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
Your sister to bathe you, that's not weird.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
No, No, like I bathed my parents when they were sick,
which felt weird. I I was talking about this with
my boyfriend the other day. Actually, how nobody should have
to like bathe their dads. Yeah, area, but I did,
and we got through it, you know. Yeah, but it's
not a high Yeah, but it's also not the lowest

(11:46):
of Low's. I mean forretty Low, it's pretty low. Even
for him, there was a lot if he had to
uh speaking of shame. Yeah, that was hard.

Speaker 4 (11:57):
So that's not concerning. That's just one of those things
that's it's a tough or I know that. When I
was in high school, I broke my collarbone. My mom
had to.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
Help me shower.

Speaker 4 (12:09):
I had a lot of shame, and my mom was like, Catherine,
I birthed you, Like, yeah, I was. It's very different.
I'm like seventeen.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
Would you think you could handle her bathing you?

Speaker 3 (12:18):
Now?

Speaker 1 (12:18):
I guess you're a husband.

Speaker 4 (12:20):
Yeah, Patrick would probably be the one to do that. Honestly,
you're lucky you have. I think your boyfriend would bathe you.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
Well, we're not there yet. I don't know. Maybe Okay,
I mean I guess he could.

Speaker 4 (12:34):
But TVD Okay, Well who would you rather have bathe you?

Speaker 3 (12:38):
Me or your sister?

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (12:41):
Yeah, yeah, if.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
I had to pick. But then if my boyfriend I
get married, then I'll have that locked in. Although he
is way older than me, so let's be honest with
probably bathing him before he's bathing me. He's okay.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
Years old.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
I'm sorry if he's listening right now, which is probably not.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
But he's watching us on YouTube, that is right.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
I'm going to make him subscribe. So he's I'm forty four,
So we're eight right now. Because of our window, we're
eight years apart, and then in a few months will
be like nine.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
It's not that well, that's old.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
He's fifty two, which I now have rumor Willis's age
since we were talking about she's thirty six years old.
Oh so they're they're they're adults. Well into there. But hey,
if anybody listening, if you bathe with your adult siblings,
we want to know, reach out to us, tell us
what that's about. Maybe we're maybe we're maybe we're missing out.

(13:44):
I'm excited to get into the gifts and impairments of
shame and guilt. But we mentioned earlier about mixing them up,
and that's something that I do often, and I wanted
to share something that my therapist once told me. She
said that shame is guilt's dramatic cousin that shows up
uninvited and makes everything personal.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, my therapist is good. I mean you're good too,
but thanks. But you couldn't be my therapist. But if
I could hire you, I would.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
But is this a therapist that I know?

Speaker 1 (14:16):
No?

Speaker 3 (14:17):
Okay, I was gonna say, well, she's good anyway, so
I learned everything.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
She's great, but this is a different one. I'm sure
that the other one would say this too, but I'll
say it again for those in the back, or if
you're listening on youtubelow volume. Shame is guilt's dramatic cousin
that shows up uninvited and makes everything personal, because shame
is where it gets real, real personal and beyond dramatic.
It takes the guilt nice level.

Speaker 4 (14:41):
Well, so how I've always explained it, I'm gonna steal this,
So thank you is guilt says I did something bad,
where shame would say I am bad. And that's where
that like dramatic, like it makes it personal.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yeah, I like that too. I felt I think both
shame and guilt. On Friday, what happened. My son had
a track meet and I didn't I did not want
to go.

Speaker 3 (15:08):
Track meets are tough. Sometime they're longer, yeah, and you.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
They're real long. And it had been a long week,
and we switch on Fridays. So with our co parenting,
we go Friday to Friday, and it's like they leave
my house Friday morning for school and then Friday afternoon
they go home to his house or vice versa. So
got them off to school Friday, well, and then I'm
at work doing my thing. Then it was a long

(15:32):
day and it just was like I just really did
not want to go and he's racing for five minutes
because he does the mile and he is fast.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
So he does the mile, does.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
The mile in five minutes and stop thirty seconds or something.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
Are you serious? Yeah? Does he win?

Speaker 1 (15:51):
No? No, some kids run it in four minutes and
forty five seconds. Yes, and they are hauling like I don't.
I don't. I don't know how they're doing it. But
I knew that I would feel bad if I didn't go.
First of all, it was far away, and I knew
Ben was taking him it's fine, But I was like, oh,
part of me is like I don't really have to go,

(16:11):
Like this is one of those things where I guess
I don't have to. But even having that thought made
me feel bad. So then I also was like, okay,
if I don't go, like I'm a bad mom, I'm
a terrible mom, Like I need to go. So ultimately
I decided I was going to feel best if I went.
But I had the thoughts. All the thoughts are like
guilt and shame because now I'm a bad mom.

Speaker 4 (16:33):
Well, you you had the guilt that helped you actually
do what made you right.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
It motivated me in the right direction, like I don't
want to feel guilty because I know that it will
mean a lot for him if Ben and I are
both there, and Ben and I can't always both be there,
especially when there's multiple track meets every in the week,
depending on a week night, if there's work stuff going on,
we'll tag team. And I know not every parent listening
can be at every kid's sporting event. Like I even
think of my boyfriend, like he's got three kids and

(16:59):
in his situation, and he's the only one available, and
it's hard to get to all their stuff. They have
some grandparents in town, so luckily you know they can
come in or other family friends, but a lot of
times they're writing with friends and he's not able to
be there. So I understand that for a lot of
parents it's like, oh, don't feel bad. Not everybody can
always be there.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
But I did.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
I felt bad. That got me to go, but then
I felt like if I didn't go, I was now
a bad person.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
The punishment was exaggerated.

Speaker 4 (17:28):
Yeah, where it was really like, oh, man, I probably,
if I think about it, that would have been the
right thing that would make me feel the best versus
this cancels out everything I've ever done for him In
my life right.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
And then also I didn't want it to be about
me feeling better. I really wanted to be about just
showing up for him. Yeah, like that's what it should
bebout at the end of the day. And you know what,
he was so excited that I was there, and he
ended up running two events and he was like, are
you going to be able to stay for the next
And of course I did. But then it was like
two hours later, and then I was driving home and
then speaking of my boyfriend, and then his son had

(18:06):
a basketball game like thirty minutes away, so we went
to that.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
What do you do for two hours in the middle
of the.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
Well, I paced the parking lot a little bit, trying
to work on a video that I was doing for Instagram,
and but then my phone was going to die, so
then I had to go in my car and set
it down on the little charger thing because I don't
have the wire, so I couldn't work on it because
like in the console, so I'm getting a wire.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
What is he doing?

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Stevenson hanging out with his friends in the middle of
the track and then they set up they start setting
up the hurdles. So then I call my boyfriend, and
I'm like, hey, is there like a sequence of events
because I don't understand the order of things, and because
he was an athlete, like it's a kathlete, which is
every track event. And he broke a record in high
school for hurdles. Actually he still holds the record. And

(18:54):
remember he's fifty two, so this is a long time.
Can he still hurdle that people have not broken his record?
He doesn't. I mean, I'm sure he could, but he
doesn't run much these days. It's just fun fact about
him is that he's got that record. So I'm like,
Uncle Rico. I'm like, show me what you got, uncle
Uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite. Actually, if he is not

(19:16):
bringing a bell up, I've seen he's throwing the football
and he's like still thinks he's this football star. No,
I have you ever seen it?

Speaker 4 (19:25):
So my memory is not good, but I have seen it.
I've seen it like probably ten times.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Well, I'm just surprised you haven't heard the Uncle Rico reference.
But that's totally fine if you haven't.

Speaker 3 (19:35):
Don't feel shame.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
About that, because that helps me know. I probably need
to explain my references because I'm if my boyfriend was
Uncle Rico. What he would be doing if he were
that is like I would show up at his house
and he would have hurdles set up in his driveway
and he would be running them like that would be
Uncle Rico. So thankfully, heyday, we're not living in that heyday.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
Although move forward.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
If we do go to the high school he went to,
which that's where his kids go. You can see the
record the wall, like plaid on the wall. Yeah, and
people talk about it. I'm like, what's what's it?

Speaker 3 (20:09):
Like?

Speaker 1 (20:10):
We actually ran into his track coach somewhere and they're like,
I think, I think we got a good possibility to
break your record this year. So like a good leg
a student that might break it.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
Play did he run track in college? He did?

Speaker 1 (20:22):
Yeah, at Uva.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
Oh wow, No Olympics.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
No Olympics. If you think about it, I good question.
I haven't asked him that. I'll ask okay, okay, did
you ever think.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
About the Olympics? I have that record from high school.
Not what that means.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
But so back to him being into Catholic. He knows
all the events because he did all the events, and
I wanted to know how long I might be waiting
because I was like, is there a universal is this
the order we go in? And he was like, well, typically,
but I don't know about junior high, but for sure
in high school and college. So anyway, two hours later
I was able to leave, but I'm so glad I went,
and even was so excited, and for me it was

(21:02):
the right thing to do for him, not for my
guilt and shame.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
I guess, well, it's attached to what you think is
what you know is going to make him happy too.

Speaker 4 (21:12):
It's okay, it's okay for it to be for both
of you guys. Okay, that's not a bad motivator.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
So you're getting Yeah, that goes to like the it's
okay to have those like selfish selfish motivations sometimes where
it's I know, being a good mom. Part of that
is bringing joy to my kids' lives and my kids
knowing that their mom is supportive of them, so that's
mutually beneficial.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
That's okay, thank you. Yeah, Okay, Well that's my little
example because I just had that scenario on Friday. Okay,
so well let's get into the to the meat of things. Yeah,
so do you know that analogy?

Speaker 3 (21:47):
Can you explain it to me.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
So you have a plate, I'm thinking, then there's the bones,
and then there's like the meat. Oh, I'm thinking of
like a plate, and I think that's where that does
come from, like the meat and potato. Like we just
meet potato sides. Yeah, Like we started with the salad
and then we just had like I just served up
a little side dish with that story, and then now
you're gonna get to the meat.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
That's what I was thinking.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Okay, you always thought that was about the bones. Well
you start talking, I'm gonna look up where that comes from.
Because we'll start start with shame. We'll start there and
get into like the core need of that.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
Okay, so back to if you're new, a little refresher.

Speaker 4 (22:36):
We're going through all the eight core feelings and we're
talking about the need attached to them.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
The impairment if you avoid the feeling. If anybody knew, why,
why is that funny? Well, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
It's just like maybe maybe they stumbled up us, like
just this episode.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
YouTube, the next video that came up. Okay, they look fun.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
You're right, you're right, No, I know, or they're if
they've downloaded because I guess if I'm starting a podcast. Okay, true,
true confession.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
I like, we can't.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
I've listened well to another third episode. Yeah, but if
this was four Things, which this is the Feeling Things,
is the rebranded version of that, this would be episode
like six hundred and fifty three, not just the third.
So you're right, But see, I feel like, do people

(23:34):
go back to the beginning and start or did they
just pick up wherever?

Speaker 4 (23:37):
I do not go back to the beginning of a podcast, Okay,
unless I run out of episodes and then I'm like, oh,
I want to listen to more, I'm.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
Gonna go back six hundred and fifty.

Speaker 4 (23:45):
If somebody was like, hey, I started listening to this
new podcast, okay, and this is the episode and this
is the next episode, okay, So if you.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Are new, welcome, Hi. We are running through trying.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
To shame me. No.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
No, I just thought it was funny of like, I know,
we have our loyal, amazing listeners that have been with
us a long time, and of course there's gonna be
new ones finding us, and I want that. I guess.
I just think it's funny. Sometimes we're like if you're
brand new here, which I hope we need to act
as if that's very normal. I'm sorry, idea else that I've.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
Got one million new followers on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Right, yeah, act as we must swear.

Speaker 3 (24:20):
Start from the beginning.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
It's actually blowing up so much so that I think
we probably should slow down.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
Oh you think, okay, yeah, it's lit a little.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Were we watching someone on Instagram the other day where
she was saying that, Okay, we have to sidebar that's
for a second, because I feel like I don't know
that I believe her. I just feel like sometimes people
say things on Instagram and it's not real, and they're
acting like this is their strategy and what they're doing.
They're like things just blew up for me so fast,
and I didn't know how to handle it, so I

(24:50):
had to like regroup or things that I don't know.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
I believe. This is why I believe about that a video.

Speaker 4 (24:56):
So we we were watching a video that was giving
a strategy for Instagram.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
She was talking about what she was doing.

Speaker 4 (25:04):
What I believe is true is that she blew up
really fast and she was like overwhelmed. She's a normal
She's just a regular person with a regular job. She
wasn't an influencer. She posted a couple videos that just
like she went from a what what a normal like
a five hundred followers, a thousand followers to like thirty
thousand within like a month, I think, and then now

(25:27):
she's what had over half a million, yes, if not
more so? I think she did blow up really fast
and didn't know how to handle it and didn't know
how to keep up with the content that she felt
pressured to make. What I don't believe is that she
did what she said she was doing because it didn't work.

Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, but you know how we didn't want to believe
back in the back in the day that boy bands
were curated and put together?

Speaker 3 (25:54):
Did you talk about what are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (25:58):
You know they were they were put together because they're
best friends. No, see, That's what I'm talking about. I
just feel like sometimes I wonder if Instagram has these
people and they're like, oh, this creator could be something
like we're gonna blow them up and we're going to
make this a thing, and this is gonna be our
local project, and we make it seem like she was
this nothing that went to something and you know, just

(26:22):
like we thought justin Timberlake and his boys just got
together and formed a band, you know, and they were
they were women did it all. There's a machine behind it, Yes,
there's just that's just my theory. Would you want to
be one of those people? I mean no, I don't

(26:42):
know that. I that that that's my lane. I mean,
if they wanted to blow these up, but that that
would be helpful. But I don't know what the expectations
are with her of that. But her content is really good,
Like she's handled the blow up well, I'll just say
I think she's handled it well. But from what there
is a narrative that it was like a lot and

(27:03):
I'm just this overnight success when really there might be
more to it. Now there are true like people that
have had something for years and years and years and
then they genuinely do organically blow up like that happens. Yeah,
I just don't know that. That's the vibe I'm getting
from that. And she was feeding us these hacks that

(27:24):
I think are just a trick to get us to
do them. We got got because we tried and we
it didn't work.

Speaker 4 (27:30):
Don't even close. Okay, do you think I'm rubbing off
on you and you're becoming a little bit more skeptical.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
Maybe you are because there are so many people that
I used to believe and fall for and love, and
now I'm like, it's like a cat, I see things more,
and I'm like, see things more clearly. It's like I
put my cat glasses on cat vision. I have now
have yes therapy cat vision because you're skeptical of most everybody.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
Yes, And I learned earned that by liking people and
then being like, wait a second, you tricked me. So
you tricked me? Speaking of that, who's the guy that
was behind and sync? You said his name? I watched
that documentary? Did you watch it? Yeah? I forgot what
it was called.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
Like lou Pearlman's a nasty estimate, he's a dirty dog.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
It's called like dirty pop or something. But oh yeah, okay, okay,
or that dirty top two things.

Speaker 4 (28:32):
I didn't finish it because after I think what halfway
through it was a couple of episodes.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
I got the point.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
But that was one of those things where it looks
on the outside like they're having the time of their
life and on the inside they're not. So maybe that
girl is not having the time of her life on
the inside either. You know who looks like she has
all this success, but she might be really struggling.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
The other part is and at night, Instagram's like locking
her in her room, like film this content, or like
those dancers. You know there's answers that are in that
cult and they look like they're having all fun dancing
and then turns out who knows when the camera's not on.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Who knows? That was another documentary that I watched, that
whole thing. But what I was gonna say.

Speaker 4 (29:13):
Is what I learned and I really took away from
Dirty Pop was the blimps.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Oh yeah, yeah, he was in like aviation and blimps
before Where did all slimps go?

Speaker 3 (29:26):
I don't know, when's the last time you saw blimp?

Speaker 1 (29:28):
I actually wrote it a blimp not too long ago. Actually, okay, well,
so good year blimp. I got to take the kids
up in it for work.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
Well, they were saying that he like maybe crashed all
his blimps like insurance or something.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
I don't think I was in his blimp, but I
was in a blimp.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
But blimps were like blimp blimp, it's such a weird word.

Speaker 4 (29:52):
They were everywhere and now they're nowhere. And also they
were like a big money. I mean the advertising dollars
for a blimp. That's where he made all his money.

Speaker 3 (30:04):
Yeah, if we could have got our hands on one
of those, put feeling things on it.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Oh gosh, yeah, that'd be nice. People will be like,
what is that?

Speaker 4 (30:12):
It was just a weird The fact that those were
that the blimp was in the Insane documentary was interesting
to me. But it made me think, I've never I
haven't seen a blump in a long time.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
Yeah, well, I got the I know the origin of
get to the meat of it. Okay, we're about to
get to the meat, and it means to go to
the most important part of the problem, just as it
means the most important part of the meal. The expression
is rooted in the idea that the meat of a meal,
like the main course, is the most substantial and important part.
Although I feel like bathing with your adult siblings is

(30:41):
pretty substantial, you know, so.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
Is that the meat of our podcast definitely.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
Not uh, while the potatoes or side dishes are less significant, No,
Rember willis bathing with the adult siblings is definitely the potatoes.
And then like my track story side dish, you know,
tortilla squad that could be meat though, that's not meat,
but that's a special sauce or it's a tortilla. It's

(31:09):
the rap that holds it all together. So should we
get to the meat shame? Also, the name of the
documentary is Dirty Pop. The boy band scam.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
Oh Backstreet Boys. That was in there too, right, yeah,
he was with all this.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah, so shame.

Speaker 3 (31:26):
Okay, all right, So shame.

Speaker 4 (31:28):
Like I was saying, if you're new here, we're going
to talk about the need behind every feeling the impairment.
If you don't feel it in the gift, if you
do so, shame is a confusing one because a lot
of people will say, how can that ever be good?
But there's two types of shame. There's toxic shame and
there's a healthy version of shame. That's the way I

(31:49):
really view it. So the need around it is some
kind of attunement, whether that's a tunement with other people
or tooment with self. And when I say that, do
you know what a means? Sometimes I think we use.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
Being in touch with Yeah, yeah, dialed in, dialed in yeah, yes,
Well I just phonetically like started to break it up
and then go back into you know, what's the language Latin.
I broke it down route wise, and then I.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
What's the Latin root of attunement?

Speaker 1 (32:20):
What I just didn't you take Latin? No? Oh no,
if I convinced you in some way that I have.

Speaker 4 (32:29):
I think that people used to do that instead of
taking like Spanish or.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Oh yeah, no, people still take it. I think. Actually
one of my boyfriends then takes Latin. But I was
just picturing tune. Yeah, dialed in at tunament, put tune
two together.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
Smart, okay.

Speaker 4 (32:47):
So, and then if we are not feeling, if we're
kind of trying to avoid the shame and not really
sitting with it even though it's uncomfortable, what happens is
that ends up turning into like a toxic self attack.
That's where that I Am bad comes in, where we
start kind of tearing ourselves apart.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
That's toxic shame. Okay.

Speaker 4 (33:08):
That's the kind of shame that really isn't helpful. If
we can sit with our shame and tolerate it, that's
where we get healthy shame, and that helps us know
that we're limited and that we're human. So I'm not
going to say that shame is my favorite feeling to feel.
Out of the ones that are uncomfortable, but it also

(33:29):
is one of I mean, they're all necessary. It is
one of the most helpful because it reminds us that
we're human, we're limited, and it reminds.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
Us that we need people.

Speaker 4 (33:38):
So if I am not allowing myself to acknowledge that
I need people, there's going to be like a wall
between me and you. Also, if I don't acknowledge that
I'm needing people, I don't allow other people's gifts to shine.
So even in this pairing, there's things that you do
better than I do, and there's things that I might

(33:59):
do better than you, or there's things that I might
know more about, and there's things that you might know
more about. And by sitting in our shame, which says
I am limited, we allow each other's stuff to come
up and shine.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yeah, I love that I'm looking at our feelings. Weel
and the other words that are associated with shame, humility, insecure, week, exposed, embarrassment, disgraced, unworthy, disapproval, unlovable, unlovable.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
That hurts.

Speaker 4 (34:30):
That's a lot of the go to the gifts of shame, Okay,
and what's on.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
There the gifts of shame containment, humanity, humility, and respect.

Speaker 4 (34:43):
Yeah, there's respect. And also there is that story. I
don't know if we talked about on here or not
about the mom. Shannon gave it to us, didn't you
the mom that asked for the salt salts?

Speaker 1 (34:56):
Oh? Yes, okay, So it was a neighbor that didn't
have as much. Picture two neighbors. I'm going to paraphrase
the story. So there's two neighbors. One neighbor has more
than the other, and so the people with more. The
mom of that family went over and asked the people
the neighbor that had less for salt, because salt is

(35:17):
something they had that was probably a resource they could spare.
And the kids of the house with more they were
sort of like, why did you go ask them for salt?
And the mom said, I know they may need to
come to us for things, and I want them to
feel comfortable doing so. So if there's this mutual respect
of like I am going to come ask you for something,

(35:40):
then you can feel safe coming to ask me for something. Yeah,
it's like this reciprocity.

Speaker 4 (35:44):
Yeah, I feel respected when people come and ask for
some I mean I don't always have it right, but
when somebody comes to me and asks for something because
of whatever reason.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
There's respect there where they value you. That feels really good.

Speaker 4 (36:00):
We are not allowing ourselves to sit in that healthy shame,
knowing that we're limited. We're never going to be able
to offer that to somebody, So I'm going to be
on an island by myself. And I think a lot
of times the toxic shame happens for people when they
grow up in households where and this is not done

(36:23):
in a malicious way at all, but if we come
from like an overprotective or overbearing household, or a household
where things are done for you, things that you probably
could do for yourself, eventually are learning to do. This
thing happens where then you are out on your own
and you didn't learn how to do these things right,
and then you also didn't learn how to ask, so

(36:44):
then you just feel this, well, I guess I'm dumb
that I can't do this or think about like.

Speaker 3 (36:51):
I know this for me with.

Speaker 4 (36:53):
Finances, and I know you've talked about this, I've just
always said to myself, I'm never going to understand that.
And when I get married, somebody's going to take care
of that for me, or like my dad's going to
explain it or something like that, I don't need to know.
And then when I was single, unmarried until I was
thirty four, I avoided it because I didn't want to

(37:13):
have to ask for help because I was like, well,
I should know this, and.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
So then you're embarrassed.

Speaker 4 (37:19):
So that yeah, and so there's that like and I
remember meeting with a financial advisor for the first time
and saying like, I feel so stupid that I don't
know this, and he was like.

Speaker 3 (37:31):
You're not. How would you know this? And that's what
we're here for.

Speaker 4 (37:34):
And I'm going to take my knowledge and help you,
just like if I was coming to you with for therapy,
you're going to be able to help me. I thought
that was a nice way of putting that. I like that,
but I'm not his therapist. Oh, mostly because I dated him.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
And then but also really, could you, like, could you
be the therapist? So you're finance now, no, like legally.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
That it would be a mess. I'd be bad.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
Yeah, especially with the stock market. You'd be like, that's
my money that you're stressed out about losing.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
So for years I carried shame towards my body when
I was trying to get pregnant. I'm trying to think
of what year Ben and I actually started trying for
a baby, but it wasn't explainable. So we went to
fertility doctors and we tried to get answers. We did

(38:29):
certain tests, and we didn't know. So I just would
put that pressure on me, and I think Ben did
the same, like, well, then it must be me, or
it could have just been that he was in the
Air Force and he was deployed a lot, and you know,
sometimes it takes a lot of tries, and maybe when
I was ovulating he was gone. But I mean, we
were trying to do all the things right on during

(38:51):
the sixty days he was home, because he would be
sixty days deployed, sixty days home. So those sixty days home,
what you have two chances of getting pregnant, and we
weren't able to. So I just felt like my body
was broken. And a lot of my friends around me
were all getting pregnant. And my sister has four biological children,
and so to me, being her sister, like, well, what's

(39:16):
wrong with my body? My body's broken, my body is bad,
what's wrong with me? When truth is we really didn't know,
and no, I wasn't broken, and we had a different
story for how we were going to become parents, which
eventually was adoption, and that is beautiful. I still do

(39:38):
have certain thoughts sometimes, like I wonder if I could
still ever get pregnant and have a baby, But then
I guess if I did, then would we know, Like,
oh so maybe maybe it wasn't me, like I would
have what I do. I want that maybe just for
that validation of like, I'm not broken, because for so
long I of like growing up, like that's what I

(39:59):
wanted to be was stay at home mom, Like I
just wanted to get pregnant and then stay home with
my kids. And thankfully, like I have a whole career now,
and because that's what happened for me, if you ended
up a stay at home mom, that's not what I'm saying,
I probably shouldn't have to do that, well, I said, thankfully.
I just I guess, thankfully I have a career and

(40:20):
I didn't have all my eggs in that basket, or
I'd still be sitting around waiting like what am I doing?
But I was able to have something that I could
focus on, and then we were able to adopt. But
I know that there's other people out there that might
be in a similar situation with fertility, And I just
don't want you to be hating on your body, yeah,
or hating yourself or feeling like you're broken.

Speaker 4 (40:41):
And I think it's easier sometimes for us to jump
into the shame bucket before we jump into the sad
bucket or the fear bucket, or name any other emotion.
Maybe that has to do with how we grew up
in the messages were given as humans are really just

(41:03):
as women, it's really easy to jump in there versus.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
I'm really sad this isn't going this way, or.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
I'm glad you said that about the messaging because it's
like you feel like growing up like this is the
one thing you were designed to do and you're not
able to do it, and you're like.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
Supposed to do it. You're the one that's supposed to
do it.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Like if we were on some show, like I don't
want it to be Handmaid's Tale, Like I don't want
it to be that, you know, yeah, but like I
would be not just okay, maybe it's not that, or
if it was way back, if we were getting weeded out.
I'd be weeded out.

Speaker 3 (41:40):
Isn't that what they did in him? I didn't watch
it because I couldn't deal.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
With it, Like I stopped watching it eventually. But I'm
just like going way back in time. I mean, Handmaid's
Tale is really freaky to even think that, because that's
like now, and what if it looked like way back then?
But I'm just saying, like, way, way, way way back,
Like I wouldn't have been a part of what was
desirable because I couldn't.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
But there's more to you than that.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
Yeah, like, way way, way, way way back then, I
could have done a podcast, just kidding. There was no
technology live. I could have been a town crier and
I could have stood in the middle of the town
square and then like you know, told jokes.

Speaker 4 (42:16):
You could have been one of the Maybe that's the
same thing. But when they would all come to the
thinking of in Roman times in the colisseum and they would.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
Like to play yes, oh I could have been a fesbian.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
Oh you couldn't. I think only men could do that.

Speaker 4 (42:31):
Actually, right, probably they even played the women characters, so okay,
well you would have changed the course, have been a
I don't know, basket weaver. Yes, maybe I could have
helped to clothe the pregnant women, yeah, and brush their.

Speaker 3 (42:48):
Hair like.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
That made me think of that scene in Dirty Dancing.
My sister and I reenact that sometimes when she brushing
her hair and she was like, but she says, she's
really pretty hair. Baby, you've never seen Dirty Dancing.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
Oh my gosh, you just assume I haven't seen the movie.
Who's brushing whose hair?

Speaker 1 (43:12):
The sister? Baby is her name, so character Francis is
her real name.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
Francis in a corner comes from exactly that he just
called her baby.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Or she says something like want me to do your hair? Baby.
I can't remember exactly because my brain just kind of
popped to that scene. I don't know why. I tell you,
my brain goes places when we're talking and then it's
like completely not related to what we're talking about, and
I'm like, brain, stop it.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
You're trying to.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
Focus because I really want to focus on what we're saying.
And then that's where I go. And then now I
talk about it and I'm taking everybody else's brain there,
and it's like, yeah, but are derail.

Speaker 3 (43:46):
That's also like the fun of having a conversation with you.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
Is it fun though? Because I see videos on Instagram
of like, this is what it's like talking to my
ADHD friend and the people that are what do you
call it, like neurotypical? Yeah, God, they sit there looking
at their ADHD friend.

Speaker 4 (44:02):
Like, get to the point what is going on the
only time it's frustrating, and I say this is I
do it too, is when you're trying to get something
done or I frustrate myself. Otherwise it's like, oh, we
bring so much diversity into this conversation.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Oh yeah, we're so diverse. Yeah, yeah, maybe I would
be able to tell jokes. Kermit the Frog didn't exist them,
but I just had to kermit the frog joke that
popped into my head that it's kind of funny. You
want to know what it is?

Speaker 3 (44:29):
Are you going to do it? It's voice?

Speaker 1 (44:42):
Krmit the Frog didn't exist them, but I just had
to kermit the frog joke that popped into my head
that it's kind of funny. You want to know what
it is? Are you going to do it?

Speaker 3 (44:48):
It's voice?

Speaker 1 (44:49):
Uh no, what did Kermit the Frog say at his puppet?
Because he's a puppet, so he has a puppeteer the
person at is puppeteer's funeral.

Speaker 3 (45:03):
What did Kermit the Frogs say at his puppeteer's funeral?

Speaker 1 (45:07):
Not a word?

Speaker 3 (45:14):
That's a joke and a riddle. Oh you know, it's
a diverse what Okay?

Speaker 4 (45:22):
Any other thoughts on shame, shame and guilt. We've within
each other, so we can still talk about shame as
we move.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
On to okay, we can move on to guilt.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (45:32):
So guilt also very helpful. Guilt helps sustain in alignment
with ourselves. We have to know what.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Our alignment is. My word of the year.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
Oh yeah, so I've been feeling a lot of guilt
this year.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
Maybe not because you're just so in alignment that the
guilt isn't coming up.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
I'm feeling in alignment mostly unless my son has a
truck me.

Speaker 4 (45:57):
That makes sense. So the need around guilt a lot
of time has to do with forgiveness. It could be
ourselves or forgiveness with somebody else or a group of
people or whatever. So when we're unaware of our guilt,
when we don't allow ourselves to actually acknowledge that we
feel guilty, that moves us into the toxic shame realm
as well. And that's where these are, which I guess
your therapist said, cousins.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
They are.

Speaker 4 (46:18):
They want to be best friends, but we need them
to have like a little.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
Bit of separation. That's like our eyebrows sister, was it.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
We want them to be the same, like so many
people are, like I want my eyebrows to be identical.
But brows are cousins, not sisters.

Speaker 3 (46:34):
Brows are the same as guilt and shame, right, Okay,
So it's.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
Easier, especially mine, because I have to draw mine on
every day. Now. They were good, thank you, okay, thirty minutes.

Speaker 4 (46:44):
But we don't want ourselves to feel guilt. What we
will do a lot of times also is will deflect
or will get really defensive, and then what we don't
do is live in our values.

Speaker 3 (46:56):
But then we'll excuse it and we'll blame a lot
of showing up in.

Speaker 4 (47:00):
As I'm describing this, I'm like, this is nobody that
would ever want to be hanging out with, but we
all are going to do it at times.

Speaker 3 (47:07):
So there's that we can take some of that shame
and pressure off of us. And then if you are.

Speaker 4 (47:13):
Feeling your guilt, your guilt helps show you what's important
to you, what your values are, and it helps you
maintain relationships too, with yourself and other people.

Speaker 3 (47:22):
Guilt says, Hey, that wasn't really what you wanted to do.

Speaker 4 (47:27):
Maybe you might want to go talk to them and
ask for forgiveness or ask what you could have done better,
And you can also do that for yourself.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
I like that gift.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
That's why you were saying with the guilt about when
another track meet, because I felt that that's great information
because now I get to show up how I want to.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:47):
If we don't yeah, if we don't ever feel guilt
is there because we're avoiding it and then we're living
in shame and also not being who you truly are
or we are.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
So like psychopaths don't feel I would imagine not shame
or guilt. I would imagine sociopaths.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
Yeah, both of them.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Yeah, it makes me think at the time that guy
said I was a sociopath.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
See, but you're not. Wait what did you say when
you're like, I feel empathy?

Speaker 1 (48:16):
You a little backstory. Here is somebody in our life,
not in my life. He was in your life. Don't
get it twisted. He was somebody in our life said
I was a socio path ish or acting sociopathic or
something like that, And I had to google exactly what
that meant because I didn't know the difference between the psychopath.
And I'm like, okay, and I want to lean in

(48:39):
if I'm having that, I want to know so I
can fix it. So I'm like, what is a sociopath?
And it said one of the things under there is
they have no regard for the law. Oh, that's what
it was, I said, And I said, I have regard
for the law. I'm not I'm not a cencio that. Yeah,
I've regard for them to follow rules and you're good

(49:01):
person rules.

Speaker 3 (49:02):
But I what's.

Speaker 4 (49:04):
Funny about that was that in a that was in
an email, right, you would be the last person in
my life that I would one of the last people
that I would say has any qualities of that. So
for somebody to call you that, I think that's when
I lost it.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
And I cried, oh, because I sent you the email
and you like, I can't even read this. I'm crying.
Shannon's typing me notes right now. But psychopaths, she said,
they see no shame or guilt even when the person's
behavior was obviously hurtful.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
Which is that there.

Speaker 4 (49:34):
I wouldn't call this a superpower, but that's the why
they're able to do what they do because they don't
have those feelings, which it feels very foreign.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
To Right, So then are we supposed to have grace
for that? In a whear?

Speaker 3 (49:45):
Okay, no, no, what do you mean by that?

Speaker 1 (49:47):
No? Well, I guess I feel bad that they can't feel.
I know that's their responsibility, but what if, like they
literally can't feel. Let's take out serial killers and stuff
per murdered, like maybe they're never because there's any of
sociopaths or psychopaths that haven't killed people.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
Somebody of like a narcissist who like might not have
any empathy.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
Right, And I, when I really boil it down to
the root of their problem, I do feel bad and
I try to have some grace. But there's also boundaries.
So can you have grace.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
And bound you have compassion without forgiveness.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
As you're freaking annoyed?

Speaker 4 (50:24):
Yeah, so compassion without forgiveness. Compassion allows me to understand, like,
imagine somebody in your life who has really hurt you,
but maybe somebody in their life really hurt them, Okay,
a parent. This happens a lot with people who have
parents that have caused them a lot of pain, whether
it's abuse or neglect or something like that. We can

(50:44):
have compassion and say, I get it, nobody taught you
and you were doing the best you could, and I
don't forgive you because it was not okay, and I
deserve better.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
So compassion without forgiveness.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
But should we always forgive?

Speaker 5 (51:02):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Ish?

Speaker 3 (51:03):
Personally?

Speaker 4 (51:03):
I think no, Okay, but that's not I mean, it's
up to you. You're allowed to well.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
I don't know, just going back to I mean just
generally speaking, like, uh, maybe you don't have to forgive
them religious stuff aside, So let's set that we're not.
We don't need to go down that path. But even
just the the saying that's pretty popular about that of
like like drinking poisons, Like drinking poison and expecting the
other person to die.

Speaker 4 (51:31):
I think that can be reversed, and forgiving somebody can
actually feel like we're being forced to forgive.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
Somebody can feel like drinking poison because a.

Speaker 4 (51:39):
Lot of times when we forgive people, it is forced
forgiveness where it feels like it's the shame. It's like,
it feels like I have to do this, I should
do this. Everybody's telling me that I should do this,
but it doesn't feel right. And I am imagine somebody
who has abused you or hurt you or something like that.
It's yeah, I can have compassion for humanity. Maybe not

(52:04):
for that person, depending on the situation. I'm using a
really extreme situation. I can have compassion for humanity and
I can heal and move forward and not forgive this person.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
Okay, I think that is fairer and possible. But also if.

Speaker 4 (52:21):
You want to work towards forgiveness, there's no shame in
that either. If that's something you want, I just like
to send the message that you don't have to do
that to heal, right.

Speaker 1 (52:31):
And forgiveness is a very very very personal journey and choice.

Speaker 4 (52:36):
So just giving options I think is helpful. You can,
you don't have to, You'll be okay if you don't.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
Yeah, depend on the situation, depending Okay, Okay, we are
we're talking about guilt. We're talking about guilt.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
We're talking about guil.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
I think if we're talking about guilt, I have the
same thing with guilt, though with my body and not
being able to get pregnant. So the shame was just
so we can keep practicing. The different between the shame
was I am broken. The guilt was I can't give
my husband or us a baby like his family name biologically,

(53:12):
you know, like he really wanted a baby, as did I.
But when I felt guilty that we weren't able to
do that.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
But what I think this is where shame and guilt
get confused in that space. What were you doing wrong
that was living outside of your value system?

Speaker 1 (53:28):
Well, nothing outside of my value system, but I still
felt guilt like if it was my fault, then I
felt guilty. But we didn't know. But yeah, so I
put it on myself that it was my.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
Fault, yeah, versus because I'm thinking about.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
It, because there are people that do have the fertility
doctor say, actually it is your body, like some women
are like it, but you're a philopium tubes or it's
your whatever, and then or the guy it's like, it's
your sperm situation, you know, so somebody may have that situation.
We were left in the unknown, so at times I
felt that guilt of life been married me and now

(54:03):
I if he had married somebody else, maybe he could
have gotten the baby.

Speaker 4 (54:08):
Yeah, but you're creating a whole story, I know. Yeah,
but don't we do that even Yeah, And also because
I'm thinking about myself in this too. Patrick and I
are trying to conceive and it's not been the easiest
road and it is because of something with my body.
But I didn't do anything to like, I didn't do anything.

(54:29):
I just was born into this body and the world
works in mysterious ways, and I have this thing. And
I noticed myself apologizing to him. I'm saying, I'm really
sorry because of the things that we've had to do,
like it's not been as fun and like even silly
things or I'm like he used to go test his

(54:50):
firm and we were just like laughing about it, like
I'm sorry you have to do that. That's really awkward, right,
And I'm sorry that I have to pay for this
doctor's appointment. And then I was like he was, it's okay.
And then I had to have that moment of like,
no offense, but why am.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
I apoliciazing to you? Because I didn't do anything.

Speaker 4 (55:07):
And that's where I can sit in the humility part,
which it feels wrong to say shame but healthy shame.
I can sit in the humility part that says like,
I am very limited. There are things that are limited
about me, and I need extra help, So I need
extra doctor's appointments or I need like I made my
mom come with me to a doctor's appointment the other

(55:27):
day because I didn't want to go by myself, Like
I need help. And that actually is in a weird way,
bringing me closer together to people than pulling me farther apart.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
Yeah, and we want to be there for you. I
know your mom wanted to be by your side no
matter what, and Patrick wants to be there, and your friends,
like we want to rally around or if you ever
need to text me, invent to me about how this
feels like a chore. Yeah, like I get that, Like
it feels like, well, you're like the romantic part of it,
you're taking away for your relationship. Yeah, it's like, hey,

(56:02):
but I know a lot.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
Of people go through this.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
It's like, Okay, I just check the calendar or I
just took this test and looks like we need to
do it at two o two pm? Can you be here?
And it feels very mechanical and then less like.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
Whoopsie.

Speaker 4 (56:17):
Yeah, And I think that's also where I was saying earlier,
maybe you were feeling sadness or fear, and that's where
I had to.

Speaker 3 (56:25):
Be, like, I'm why am I apologizing to you? I
actually don't feel guilt about this. I was.

Speaker 4 (56:31):
I think I've been living in a world that has
set me up to think that I'm supposed to so
I automatically went there. But really, I'm really sad that
has to be this way, because you want to just
be like, oh, whoopsie, you got present and I there's fear,
like we have no idea what's going to happen, and
with you, it sounds like there could have been fear.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
You didn't know what was going on.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Oh so many unknowtes I mean, and it started to
take a toll on our relationship. And then eventually we
decided to go to the adoption route. But even with that,
I was on board with that before Ben, and then
he kind of had this aha moment where he's like, Yeah,
this could be really beautiful and it's obviously what God

(57:14):
had in store for us. So I see that now,
like looking back, Yeah, when you're in it, it's really
hard to see. But It's like we've talked before about
the mosaic, like we can't see everything. We can't see
the big picture. We're looking at the up close piece
of the tile. And the more we get to step back,
little by little, we get to see the beautiful piece

(57:35):
of art, which is our lives.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
Yeah. Yeah, and something to remember.

Speaker 4 (57:41):
And obviously I have to remind myself this too, is
just because you didn't get what you wanted doesn't mean
you got nothing. And I think that is helpful in
the moment, Like, in the moment, I'm not getting what
I want, but it doesn't mean I have nothing.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
I have so there's so many other parts of my
life I can lean into. And then also in retrospect,
you can look as like, just because I didn't get
what I originally wanted, doesn't mean I didn't get anything. Look,
I do have this family, I do have kids, and
I do have a career.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
Yeah, I want to reach across the chair and hug you.

Speaker 4 (58:17):
Well, I noticed that I'm starting tearing up, and then
you started tearing up, and I was like, oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
We're we can't move. We're on a set because we're
on YouTube. Yeah, so don't move anything because we're on
our set, but maybe we need to what do they
call that in and you break the fourth wall?

Speaker 3 (58:38):
Which what does that really mean?

Speaker 1 (58:39):
Well, behind the scenes, like they would be we'd be
breaking the fourth wall, like they get to see like
some of the behind the scenes is not like the
perfect like curated shot. Oh yeah, so maybe we're just like,
screw this setup that we've done perfectly.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
Shannon would not like bring in the other camera that
shows everything.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
I know, everything's like taped perfectly, so we know exactly okay. Yeah, which,
speaking of Shannon, she says, breaking the fourth wall in film,
theater or television means that a character acknowledges or directly
addresses the audience, breaking the illusion that the audience is
not present. Oh so that would be like that. Oh
so that's like in the office when they look at

(59:19):
the camera and start talking to the audience. So I
had that wrong.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
We are breaking the fourth well, I guess when we're
like hey, we're like hey, YouTube, that's breaking the fourth wall.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
Yeah, Or maybe it would be like if I look
directly into the camera and I'm like cat just started crying,
you like narrack what's happening, and you let them in
because the people may not have picked up on that
that you were emotional.

Speaker 4 (59:44):
Oh yeah, it's like she's usually laughing and perky.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
And then she just like fumbled over her words and yeah,
cat like I zoomed into her eyeball.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
Well yeah, so yeah, we've got cryocat running the cameras
and then Shannon's in here helping with us. Okay, so
Shannon is sending examples a character looking directly into the
camera and commenting on the plot. Oh, that would be
like that, like you you could look into the camera
and be like.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
And then she points out her fertility calendar.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
Yeah, or you could clarify to reiterate Amy is not
a sociopath.

Speaker 4 (01:00:22):
Oh yeah, are you asking me to do that? Obviously,
she's not a sociopath or a psychopath. I can say
that with utmost certainty. And I don't know a lot
of things.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
I do know that you're a licensed therapist.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
But okay, there are a lot of things I don't know.
That's better.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
I do know that a character speaking directly to the
audience is if they are part of the scene, and
then a character acknowledging the audience's presence or the fact
that they are watching a short movie. We've been doing that,
like the yeah, we're like if you're new here.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
I was watching a reunion of a reality show and
they said breaking the fourth wall. They were talking about
how like the produce they were giving an info about,
like the producers doing something.

Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
They're like not to break the fourth wall, but like
so and so was filming and dea da da da
da and like giving like behind the scenes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Yeah, and I feel like that falls under that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
It's like it's not as curated. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
thought it was.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Yes, bringing in like another camera that gives you a
different angle of the whole thing. Like you're saying, like,
if I were to be able to give you a
hug right now, that wouldn't be on part of the
show because you don't hear a hug. But I guess
if they brought in a camera and saw me hugging you. Yeah,
but right now I'm just gonna like pretend hug. I

(01:01:44):
do have my dirty shirt metaphor, Oh yeah, I like that,
so that we can we can close with the metaphor.
It's called the dirty shirt. Imagine you're wearing a white
shirt and you spill coffee on it. Guilt says Ugh,
I spilled coffee on my shirt. That was clumsy. I

(01:02:06):
should be more careful. Next time you see the mess,
you feel bad and want to clean it up. It's
about the action. Shame says, of course, I spilled coffee.
I am such a mess. I ruin everything. And this
is the cousin. That's why they're the dramatic cousin, because
now it's not about just the shirt being dirty. You

(01:02:27):
feel like the mess. It's no longer about the shirt.
It's about your identity.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
Well, and there's also what do you do with that?

Speaker 4 (01:02:33):
So Gil's like, I should I'm gonna be more careful
next time. I'm gonna take a shut out of there,
because I sometimes that word can be frustrating.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
I also think before we move on to the shame
part under Gil, I think we should also celebrate when
we handle something like that. Well, I didn't spill coffee
on my shirt yesterday, but I spilt an entire like
I've got my macha here. You see, I'm breaking the
fourth wall. This is my I snatch. Oh, that probably

(01:03:02):
sounded so gross in the mic. I used to hate
when my mom would swallow because hereditarily, I have a
really loud swallow. It's not my fault.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
My mom's Okay, you blame a lot of stuff on
your mom, this scam mean you said that she liked it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Yes, well, there's just a product of my environment and
my t is kidding. But I have a really loud
swallow And I just made a fresh macha yesterday and
I was going up the stairs and I trip over
the stairs and I spill the macha everywhere. And I

(01:03:37):
think in unhealthier times, I would have probably lost it
and then like h which I mean, who knows could
be a toss up hormonally if I were to respond
that way. But I was really really proud of myself.

Speaker 3 (01:03:49):
That I just was like silly me.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
I was like, gosh, now I'm gonna have to go
make another one, and I sort of like skip to
the kitchen, I got my cleaning things, I put on
more haul water to make a fresh one, and I
went and I cleaned it up. Yeah, and it was
so much easier, Like the recovery time was so fast,

(01:04:13):
and I.

Speaker 4 (01:04:14):
Just there would be no recovery if you it was shame,
It would be like I don't even deserve macha.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
Yeah, Or I could have just been like, oh stupid,
I didn't. I didn't say we could it up, but
you know, I could have lost it, which I think
it's okay if you want to get like mad in
a second. But something about that yesterday I just had
this like, huh, great experience, and I want to acknowledge

(01:04:40):
that I did celebrate it, because I think it's important
that we celebrate those moments when we handle something in
a way that's more breezy and it doesn't get us
all riled up because then there's a snowball effect that happens,
and then who knows the next thing that would have happened,
because now my feathers are ruffled, and I'm just gonna

(01:05:00):
keep being irritated. And you know, but it's like, Okay,
I spell my machia, nobody will guess. I'me go have
to make me another one.

Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
Dang it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Good thing I have more left. Yeah, I can make
another one, because some people might spill their macha and
not have any left to make. So celebrate those moments
that you find yourself doing that, and then also have
grace for the times where you're.

Speaker 3 (01:05:21):
Like, it takes a little longer.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
Yeah, it takes a little longer.

Speaker 4 (01:05:24):
Yeah, this happened today, so you're gonna be you might
be shocked by this. But I've been making eggs, not
for myself.

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Okay, you're cooking them without vomiting.

Speaker 4 (01:05:34):
Cooking them, yes, and I breaking the fourth fall for
those that don't know this, I can't stand eggs, but
I do like making breakfast for my husband. And I
was like, okay, that'd be easy, and la la la la,
and I do like to cook, even though I'm not
the best cook. Well, I've never really made eggs before
because well, I made them for an next boyfriend and.

Speaker 3 (01:05:55):
He always would be like, oh these are gross, these
are too wet, or these are two. He was not nice.

Speaker 4 (01:06:00):
So I haven't made eggs in like eight years and
that was the only time I'd ever made them.

Speaker 3 (01:06:04):
So I was like, Patri, I'm gonna make you eggs.

Speaker 4 (01:06:07):
And this we made an omelet I think yesterday, and
he helped me. And then today I said, I'm gonna
do about myself. You go get ready, I'm doing myself.
I don't need your help. Well, eggs cook so fast,
like I'm sure everybody's like, yeah, the.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
I thought I had like time, how much time?

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
Okay, not like.

Speaker 4 (01:06:33):
Ten minutes, but I was like, okay, I have time, right,
Like put the ingredients. I was making a fancy omelet
onions had Pepper's, I'd spin a dread bacon, put all
this stuff in cheese.

Speaker 3 (01:06:42):
I was like, oh no, I gotta get the cheese.
And by the time I.

Speaker 4 (01:06:45):
Flipped over it was pretty burt Yeah, and Patrick d
it anyway, But what I could have done has been like,
I'm so stupid.

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
I'm an idiot.

Speaker 4 (01:06:55):
You shouldn't love me, Like I probably wouldn't been that dramatic,
but I could have had a version of God, I
can even make eggs. I'm so dumb, Like why why
am I even trying? Or that guy was right, I
do suck at this?

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
You mean your your ex boyfriend?

Speaker 4 (01:07:09):
Yeah, But instead I'm like Patrick, I think I need
your help one more time.

Speaker 3 (01:07:13):
So that's where it's like shame, the toxic shame. Doesn't
this is my eggs.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
But I do also have like a question for you,
like I get Patrick's getting ready, right, So what about Google?
If you okay, It's like I don't think I needed
to google it, like Google, like how to make an omelet?

Speaker 3 (01:07:32):
Google?

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
I just or do you have.

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:07:35):
My first thought is I guess my first thought is like,
I'm going to ask somebody else to help me before
if he's available.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
Okay, welly no, but Hughes, you were like, I got this,
go get ready, but.

Speaker 4 (01:07:46):
You if you couldn't, if you couldn't be there to
help me, I.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
Would probably do obviously. Yeah, but because he is there.

Speaker 4 (01:07:52):
That I'm like, can you help me learn this a
couple more times before I'm out on my own with
the omelet?

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
And he was like, yeah, of course.

Speaker 4 (01:08:00):
So where I can lead it to him his gift
of egg making, I don't know. But that's the difference
of where guilt can actually lead us somewhere toxic shame
cuts us and I would never make him another omelet.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
Yeah, you're not going to give up.

Speaker 3 (01:08:17):
I'll update you guys.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
You're gonna be like online clean, that's gonna hear new hobby,
that on something. Cat's gonna be like, come to my kitchen.
You can make pottery. I'll do your nails, and I'll
make you an omelet.

Speaker 4 (01:08:32):
The one thing I won't do is an over easy
egg where they're like Gilley, oh I.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
Love a runny egg, you know. I wonder how many
people have like an egg story, because I feel like eggs,
they're such a staple in people's lives that I wonder
if you just take that one thing like egg, and
what's a story in your life that comes to mind?
Like you have your boyfriend that was awful. He was

(01:08:57):
awful by the way, he was terrible. Glad you're not
with him. Awful off awful.

Speaker 3 (01:09:01):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
I have my boyfriend from college that I'm pretty sure
he broke up with me because of the time I
threw a fit over Oh yeah, I wanted egg whites
and he made me like that this was not me.
It was my eating disorder. Yeah, and my eating disorder.

(01:09:22):
We'll call her Bridget. Oh perfect, sounds like a good name.
Bridget was a real b Bridget was high maintenance, and
she wanted egg whites particular. And when Bridget got eggs
scrambled with the yolk in it, what is she to

(01:09:44):
do because the yolk has fat And now I'm like,
give me the yolk, like I want the yolk, like
I want all things.

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
I just can't stop thinking about. Say, yok yok, yok yolk.

Speaker 1 (01:09:56):
But that that would be a story that comes to mind.
From me, and then you you had your egg thing,
and now you have the omelet thing. And I wonder if,
like you just take that simple thing, if you're like,
here's an egg, now, everybody, share your traumatic story.

Speaker 4 (01:10:09):
Start a group therapy exercise, and past the egg and
tell us what it brings up for you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
Yeah, I guess you're holding the egg. And then now
it's like, oh, I'm a woman, and I only I'm
only born with a certain amount of eggs. Yeah, and
then they slowly start dying off. I wonder, like, I
speaking of that basketball game I went to with with
my boyfriend after the track met on Friday, there was

(01:10:36):
a still teeny tiny baby there.

Speaker 3 (01:10:38):
It was so cute.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
It was the most precious little baby. Like we were
trying to figure out, how do you think that baby is.
I don't know, she may be fresh out of the hospital.
But I was impressed at the mom and the dad
being there to support their other child. Meanwhile, I was thinking,
I barely went to my son's track me and here
they are with this new baby. And I was obsessed.

(01:11:00):
And I looked at my boyfriend and I was like,
does that make you want to have a baby? And
he was like no, and I was like, yeah, me neither,
But it really did. It made me want to have
a baby. I mean not necessarily. I'm not saying with
him or that I'm gonna, but I do wonder sometimes
and then I quickly tell myself, you don't want a baby,
like you don't want to change diapers. But that's a

(01:11:20):
narrative I gave myself Whenever Ben and I were switching
to adoption and then especially adopting older kids, we were like,
we don't want to which we really felt called to
do that, like we felt like this is something we
want to do, and we would joke like, well, at
least now we don't have to change diapers. Now we've
had to deal with other things that might make me
want to change the diapers. But you know, that's just

(01:11:45):
something I wonder if I do to quickly make myself
think I don't want to have a baby, like oh,
you don't want to deal with all that newborn stuff
and no sleep, And it helps, Yeah, it helps me
not feel so I immediately did that little trick. I'm like, oh,
baby's divers love.

Speaker 3 (01:12:02):
It, and like maybe you don't want to do that, and.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
And I want that cute, little tiny baby, like I
do not know these people, and I wanted to be like,
can I hold your baby? Which I would never say that,
but I wanted to. It was so cute. I'm like,
enter that baby into a concourver because it was so cute. Okay,
all right. Oh, Shannon has a.

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
Note for us.

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
Cooking a basic omelet typically takes three to six minutes,
depending on your stovetop and desired level of doneness. You
should flip it after the first minute.

Speaker 3 (01:12:35):
Oh definitely didn't do that. I didn't.

Speaker 4 (01:12:39):
Okay, Well, now I know I'll up at you. I'll
send you a picture of my omelet.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
All right, Well, we hope y'all are having happy day
you need to have. We'll see you on Thursday for
couch Talks. We love hearing from y'all. Email us, Hey
there at couch Talks. Nope, Hey there at Feeling Things.
It's hey there at Feeling Things podcast dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:13:01):
Also, I was gonna say for the people that we're
getting emails about the newsletter, I will if you email us,
I will sign you up for the newsletter. And we're
working on the Facebook group so you can find the
sign up there.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
Yes, and there's a link tree in our Instagram at
Feeling Things podcast where you can also sign up for
the newsletter. But I know not everybody has Instagram Instagram.
But yeah, we're gonna be everywhere. We're on TikTok.

Speaker 3 (01:13:29):
What's that funny?

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
I just felt. I just felt old, We're on the
tiki tegie, We're everywhere, even access to TikTok. We're on
the TikTok, were on the we're on the Facebook, and
we're on the newsletter and we have it a phone

(01:13:54):
number email. Oh yeah, what's our phone number, Shannon? Nobody
was calling it, and I was the thing like, I
was like, we want people to feel comfortable calling. People
are so comfortable emailing. Well, wouldn't it be fun to
play a voicemail?

Speaker 3 (01:14:10):
Yeah, it would. I guess we did get.

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
Some and I wanted to play them back. But I also,
we're going to advance to the live calls. We're gonna
do the live calls.

Speaker 3 (01:14:20):
Well, if nobody's leaving a message, then.

Speaker 1 (01:14:23):
I think people are more inclined to call and leave
a message.

Speaker 4 (01:14:26):
Well, I would feel the opposite, just growing up in
my generation is that if I don't have.

Speaker 3 (01:14:34):
To make a phone call, I'm not making a phone call.

Speaker 4 (01:14:36):
Okay, true, So I think that's where how a lot
of people operate, so we're not used to it, Like
maybe are.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
Their voice on them to me? We could do a
voice changer, Yeah, we could.

Speaker 3 (01:14:47):
That would be fun, I think, yeah, I think that
for the couch talks questions if people who want to
be anonymous are definitely not want.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
To and then in the subject line, should they put
couch talks. Yeah, that's helpful, I think yeah. We'll se
y'all on Thursday for couch talks. Let me see if
we have any other order of business.

Speaker 5 (01:15:04):
Here in your fancy the iPad on the iPad, on
the iPad, so YouTube, check newsletter, check Instagram, check email
us check how that you need to have check.

Speaker 1 (01:15:16):
I'm at Radio Amy and you are at kat van
Buren and we'll see you on Thursday. Bye bye,

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Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Bobby Bones

Amy Brown

Lunchbox

Eddie Garcia

Morgan Huelsman

Raymundo

Mike D

Abby Anderson

Scuba Steve

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