Amy Brown sits down with songwriter Nicolle Galyon to discuss her impressive career, new album and more! Nicolle's songs have become a mainstay on the country charts with hits like Kelsea Ballerini and Kenny Chesney's "Half Of My Hometown," Morgan Wallen's "Thought You Should Know," and so many more. She shares how she got her start in songwriting and how it took years to breakthrough. She also recalls the first time she heard a song she wrote on the radio and how she reacted and reveals the story of how the first time she wrote with Miranda Lambert she had to breast pump and they created the song "Automatic" from the experience. Nicolle will also give an inside look to her new album, Second Wife, what inspired the songs on it and share advice to aspiring songwriters!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Women of iHeart Country sitting here with Nicole A galleon,
and before we sat down, Nicole's like, Okay, I have
an event tonight. I guess our record labels throwing a party,
a toga party.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yeah, I don't know how to toga.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Yeah, and so yeah, being in a white sheet or
toga situation, I could see how you'd maybe want a
spraytan for that. And you just got it.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm like dripping wet in spraytan formula right now.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
So she said that by the time the interview's done,
it may have advanced to the darker level.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
You know when they shoot movies and they need like continuity,
you have to if you show any of this out
of order, I'm going to look different shades.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, as it well.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I mean, I think any woman listening to this right
now can appreciate that, because we all have the struggle
of the spray tan, whether it's the rapid one that's
just going really quick, or maybe the one you sleep
in and you wake up and your sheets, your white
sheets look tan.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
It's awful.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Ron's awful. But Nicole is here to talk about way
more than spray tans that just came up your EP
Second Wife came out on October thirteenth, and it was
your sixteenth wedding anniversary to your husband, and so I
think it speaks for itself that you're his second wife.
(01:17):
But why make that the title of the EP? Now?
I was a huge fan of the Firstborn, huge fan,
such a beautiful project that I encourage everybody to go
check out if you haven't yet, or revisit it because
there's such good stuff on there. But let's talk about
Second Wife. Well.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Second Wife actually started when we wrote the last song
for Firstborn, which was five Year Plan, and that record
was all about the arc of my story as an individual,
and I said that one was the one for me.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
But I couldn't tell my.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Whole story without our story kind of wrapping it up,
and so we wrote five Year Plan. It was like
the first song we had ever really written the two
of us about us, and it was so special the
experience that I just said, I want to do more
of that, Like even if no one even hears these
songs or they don't make sense for anyone else, let's
do more of that. Like I just want us to
spend more time together writing we are. That's like the
(02:09):
one part of each other's lives we've never shared is
what it's like to be in a writing room together.
And so it was that paired with well what comes
after first? Second? Oh wait, I'm a second wife. It
just kind of all came together in one moment. And
I didn't even know like what the arc of the
second wife story would be until we started writing.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
And so, just to clarify for people that don't know
your husband's songwriter.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yeah, I'm married to Rodney Clauson. He's kind of a
big deal if you are into who writes the songs
that are on the radio. He's written a lot of
He's written like twenty five number.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Ones and twenty five number ones. Yeah, yeah, that's that's amazing.
How many number ones do you have? Do you have?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Ten?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Ten?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I made it to Devil Digits, which feels somehow really significant.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Which some that y'all would most definitely know. Automatic Miranda
Lambert thought you should know Morgan wallin which I got
to say that song it came out a couple of
years ago, but something about it this year. I'm not
quite sure, but I have been listening to it on
repeat the last few months. I just love it. I
don't know why it's hitting me different. I loved it then.
(03:20):
Do you know so many other hits have come out,
even from Morgan since then, But I'm it's like I'm
revisiting it like it's new.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Do you when you listen to it? Are you more
of the one making the phone call or the one
getting the phone call?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I'm the one making the phone call. And my mom
passed away well nine years ago this month, and so
I think that I you know, honestly, I probably I
picture Morgan on the phone to his mom, but I
am I am him like I'm the one making the
phone call to the mom. I'm not on the receiving
end from my kids. I don't know that's there to
(03:51):
that point where they would call me yet to tell me.
I thought you should know.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Fully.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Sunday sixteen year old, so thirteen, So different different ages.
But that's such a beautiful song. What was the writing
process for that song?
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Like, honestly, I give all the credit to Morgan on that.
It was a really crazy day because it was me,
Miranda Lambert and Morgan Wallen on my porch swings and
I think it was the end of twenty twenty and
there was really no agenda that day. He had just
finished the Dangerous Record, so we weren't even really trying
to write for anyone in the room. But he came
(04:27):
in and he said, Hey, I've always wanted to write
something for my mom, and I had started this and
he had so much of the song sussed out. And
I'm not trying to just like gas him up. I
mean truly like that song was his and he brought
us in on that. But he has since told me.
I think he said in another interview, like, I don't
know that I would have written that song if I
wasn't in the room with females, maybe bringing out some
(04:49):
of his vulnerable, softer side. I don't know, I'm just speculating,
but that's my favorite thing about you know, first time
co writes is you don't even know like what people
are going to bring out in each other there. And
that song was the outcome of that day.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So that was the very first time that you had
written with Morgan, not Miranda, but Morgan and Miranda together. Yeah,
that and y'all came up with that. That's I mean, it's
gold you as the writer, were you like picturing your
kids calling you or you calling your mom.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
I just remembered when we were when we came up
with the line of you know, been losing sleep since
ninety three, I just immediately thought, been losing sleep since
twenty fifteen when I had my son, and I was like, man,
I just hope and pray that I get one phone
call like this someday. I hope that we have the
relationship that you know, they're like boomerangs, Like these kids,
(05:42):
you like send them out in the world and you
just pray that they go as far and as fast
as they can toward whatever they're going toward, but that
ultimately they will come back to you and have touch
points with you. And that's where my head was at.
I was just like, God, I hope my son care's
enough to write a song about me someday.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah. I love that.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Other songs that people definitely know from you. Half of
My Hometown with Kelsey and Kenny, Homecoming Queen, another good
one with Kelsey boy Lee Brice, Consequences, Camilla Kibo, which
when you cross over like you're in the country space
and you went to Belmont. Let's talk about that before
we get intoto more songs and more of Second Wife,
(06:22):
but were you setting out to be more of a
songwriter or an artist when you were at Belmont, and
then how did you get from country into even some
of these pop spaces.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Well, I actually never came here to be an artist
or a songwriter. I came here wanting to be a
manager or an agent or a record in the music business.
I just wanted to be one degree away from the
center of my biggest passion, which was country music. And
I got here and then met songwriting and met songwriters
and learned that that was a job I could have.
(06:53):
And then I just must have been had enough of
an ego or I was just delusional and thought I
could do it, and so I started writing by myself.
And you know, I always wanted to be a songwriter.
I'm more of a creative. I don't love to perform,
so I didn't ever really want to be an artist
because the performance and going on tour is such a
big piece of it, and I have crazy nerves around performing.
(07:16):
It like takes the life out of me. Honestly, it
like fills true artists up that were meant to be
on stage. They go on stage and they come off
stage and their cup is full because they did that,
it depletes me. So I just wanted to be a
creative and create and write songs. And you know, at
a certain point when no one was recording my songs,
I just thought, well, maybe I should be the artist
(07:36):
if that's.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Gonna be how I get my songs out in the world.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
So there was like a brief stint in there where
I went on the voice and I was playing some
showcases around town and was trying to make inroads with
labels and stuff. And luckily it didn't work out for
me because I am so glad that I have like
the perfectly curated life for myself now that I have
where I get to be home. I don't have to
be on the room ode. I just get to create
(08:02):
wherever I can.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
And so being married to a songwriter or do y'all ever,
just you're sitting around the table, does something organically come
up and you're like, we should go get a guitar
and get a pen and paper, and you just start
it even though you had no intention of doing that
in the moment.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Yeah, that happens a lot, but usually because historically we
haven't written together a lot. So when we're like at
a dinner and someone says something in a conversation and
it's like we both look at each other and we're like, oh,
that's a song title. He always says first to write
it wins. And so then we like look at our
calendars and like you just never know who's going to
get in the room next and write it. But we've
(08:38):
always written it with other people. And now that we've
you know, written the CP and now we're writing together,
it's like this new era for us. I think when
those moments happen and we have a song idea that
comes up, we're going to just write them together.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Now, y'all wrote it out at your farm, yes, which
is near Nashville. Writing with a spouse is different than
like if you're writing with you know, Miranda or any
of the other laundry list of people that you have
written with, do you have to like take breaks or.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I think I think the reason that we didn't write
together for so long was because we wanted to have boundaries,
and we're both wildly independent. But something has shifted in
our relationship where even with boundaries like we it's because
when you write, you really can't have a lot of boundaries.
You need to be able to be open and for
(09:32):
us to be in a room we're so close it
would stress anyone out to be around us trying to
go write with us, because we would say anything about
anything to each other. Everything's on the table, and when
you're right in the room with a third or a
fourth writer, you're kind of like, well, you got to
keep some things like professional, you know, I don't know
that we could have been professional. And so now I
(09:53):
think the secret is writing just the two of us,
because we can, you know, stop in the middle and
go do whatever we want to do or say I
hate that or I don't. And writing Second Wife specifically
was so cool because I don't even remember songs starting
and ending. We would just start conversations and then like
the next thing, you know, we're writing a song. Or
(10:14):
we would pour all this wine. He was drinking tequila,
I think a lot, and we would just like sit
on the couch and I'm drinking wine, he's drinking tequila,
and we'd play We're not really strangers the card game
and that would turn into a conversation about us and
then I'm like, wait, that's a song, and that's really
how we wrote it. We gave ourselves two weekends and
we said, what we write in these two weekends is
(10:36):
the project. And it was this really fun challenge to
just be as present as possible and shut out everything
else in the world because we had one task, which
was just to spend time together and create.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I love these projects for everybody because we all get
to enjoy it, but especially your kids. Oh yeah, like
how cool for firstborn they have that, and then now
they have their parents with second wife. It's just when
they're older. I just go such a gift. Yeah, I
think that's or even now they don't even have to
be older.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah, it is kind of fun.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Even like you know, we've had even in our family,
there's a lot of things that you need to explain
to your kids as they get older, and it's kind
of I think there's a connection between what I'm writing
and trying to get out on Firstborn and Second Wife.
That felt somewhat age appropriate for me to start telling
my kids about those things from my life. That it's
(11:28):
that in turn is going to give them a better
understanding of theirs and where they come from and who
they come from.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, because the title of one of the songs is
Prenup and it's y'all poking fun at your lack of
a need for a prenup upon marriage.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Oh, we were both a financial liability to each other
at that point. I came in with a lot of
private school like college loans. Rodney had back taxes. We
were like, why would we ever need a prenup? And
now it's kind of like it's balanced itself out because
(12:05):
I think we've both you know, paved our own way
on our you know, if we split it in half,
it kind of it's all the same now.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Other songs the Grain, which is about how different love
stories can look. Rooms about multiple life experiences, and how
walking through rooms has evolved throughout their relationship. Tell me
about that.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Rooms was a song that came from us having too
much to drink and playing we're not really strangers, and
I forget what the card prompted us to talk about,
but I started reminiscing about how differently it has felt
over the years walking into the BMI Awards with him.
It's an event we have in here in Nashville. It's
exclusive for songwriting and publishing, and it's kind of like
(12:47):
the super Bowl of songwriting.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Every year.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
It's like everyone gets dressed up, and I remember I've
gone now I guess like seventeen or eighteen years now
with him, and I was just like, it's just wild
when you watch how differently every night of the BMI
Awards has felt, from me walking in and him winning
Writer of the Year, to then me winning writer and
then last year I went by myself and had a
really great night, but he was off hunting and we
(13:12):
were talking through all that, and then I was like,
and then if you go back to the very first year,
this is how it felt to me to walk into
that room with you. And I told him all this
and he said, I had no idea that that's what
you were experiencing. I just thought you were excited to
get dressed up and go to the party. I was like, no,
there was so much more wrapped into it for me,
and so we just on the spot. I just started like,
(13:35):
you know, like there's our title rooms and you know
what will I wear? I remember, just like, what person,
no matter what your life story is, has what girl
hasn't like overthought you know everything that every move she
made when she walked in a room. It's it's just
part of I think being a young woman Texas.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Hold Him is another song which is lighthearted, cheeky romantic
song under the Rainbow. Now this one is this written
by others? Are y all involved in this?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
All? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (14:06):
We took a song that is, you know, already like
a huge classic song and kind of did our own
little spin on if we could, if we could rewrite that,
what would it sound like? Our version of the fairy tale?
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah? I love putting a spin on things. Which, speaking
of thought, you should go back to that with Morgan
Wall And there's a DJ that put a spin on
that with and merged it with Tupac Dear Mama. Have
you heard it? No? Because you know, if you think
about it, Tupac singing to his mom, Oh yeah, dear mama.
When I was young, me and my mama had beef
seventeen years old. You know, he's like laid to don't
Ginova love you sweet Laid and then Morgan singing to
(14:44):
his mom. But he kind of merges and the beats
kind of go together. It's so good. I'm going to
text it to you. Please do I have to go
see this because and it's just a snippet. I wanted
to DM the DJ and be like, can you sing
me the full? Can you do a full version? So
I can listen to this over and over since but
I just listened to the Instagram reel over and over.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Okay, well that is a task for some young DJ
out there to go put it on TikTok so we
can all.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Use this one on. Yeah, he has like a million
followers on TikTok. Eric, Well, I'm going to find it
now and then I'll play it for you. But it
is so good and I'll send it to you. But
I want to go to the first song on the track,
save this one for last, because I thought it was
really special that there's a song expressing gratitude to your
your mother in law and how she shaped Rodney, your husband,
(15:30):
her son. So talk us through Joe, which is the title.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Joe is Rodney's mom, but Joe is a name that
is a common thread through Rodney's life and beyond his mom,
his his sister the past. When he was younger, her
middle name was Joe. Our daughter's middle.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Name is Joe.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
My aunt Joe Anne, who's like the sister that he
never had. I mean it just Joe keeps stowing up
in his life and I just I just was like, Okay,
I have to write a song called Joe.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
And as I was steing on that.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
I realized what a trailblazer his mom was from me
in his life. She you know, she's that like, take
twelve diet cokes out in a cooler and drive the
tractor and she'll she'll cut all the She's like, she's
very much that I can do it myself mentality, and
we're so different, she and I, but I just wanted
to give her. I wanted to give credit where credit
(16:17):
is due for maybe why he was even attracted to
me in the first place. And I can as I
as I now have kids, I start to imagine, like,
what's it going to be like when my kids bring
people home and I can see, oh, you like this
one maybe because your dad's this way or I'm this
way or And I really leaned into the idea that
of just gratitude for her in all of her quirky
(16:41):
and beautiful ways. And it was so fun to write
with him, because I don't know that he would have
ever on his own written a song about his mom,
but it kind of forced him. I mean, all those
details in there really came from him. You know, green
roof on a gravel road. I'm like, I didn't remember
that the house you grew up in had a green roof.
But yeah, she's she's an okay cook and I'm an
okay cook. And I think he doesn't care if he's
(17:03):
married to a great cook because of her. And I'm
so grateful for that, Nicole.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
I know, just seeing you bake and cook on Instagram,
I'm impressed.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I like to bake Kansas. Kansas has brought out my
Martha Stewart's side. But he always says, like if I
go like three days in a row without making dinner,
He's like, I didn't marry for that. And then I
always think about his mom. I'm like, oh, yeah, she
would love. She'd throw anything in a microwave, you know
what I mean. She'll freeze pizza, hut pizza for six
months and then pull it out.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
You know. I mean, I'm like that, thank you, thank
God that she was that way.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, there's this mom. Have you seen her. She's gone viral.
I can't think of the handle, but she's you know,
she'll be in the kitchen like with her son and
they're doing dishes together, like this is a normal thing,
and the caption will be like and she's kind of
glaring into the camera and she'll be like, me doing
dishes with my son, like it's normal, so that when
he's married, it's not like this big deal for him
(17:59):
to have to do dishes.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Yeah, Rodney prides himself on the fact that he can
make a really mean mashed potato. And I think it's
because his mom. I really hope Joe Alice is not
listening to this right now, but would not make a
lot of mashed potatoes, like on Thanksgiving, and he's got
some deep trauma about the lack of mash potatoes because
he'll make twenty five pounds of mashed potatoes every Thanksgiving.
And I'm like, okay, I mean so yeah. I think
(18:22):
we all, you know, are living out the things that
maybe we didn't have.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Well, you mentioned earlier that you know, once you realize, okay,
I'm going to be a songwriter, and you do have
your own albums, your own music that you perform, but
performing is not necessarily something that fills your cup up.
It depletes you. So what are the things that you
do besides songwriting that fill your cup up?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Well, I love playing volleyball like sand or court. I'll
play sand, but I prefer court. I actually am on
a rec league volleyball team back in my hometown right
now with a bunch of girls that I grew up with,
and it is literally the most joy that I've ever
had in my life, in my adult life. And I
love taking photos. I'm forever a yearbook editor. I've been
carrying a camera over my shoulder long before there was
(19:07):
an Instagram or a Facebook. I just love the storytelling
and the creativity of photos. And it's like a part
of my life that hasn't become a business, and so
it's just so pure. I just love, you know, I
love taking photos, and I do love baking cakes. Now
this is a new thing for me. When I go
back to my hometown, I have quiet and I have space.
(19:28):
And somehow later in life, like at the age of
like thirty six, I discovered that I needed to learn
how to bake a good birthday cake. And it just
has taken on a life of its own and I
have made a gazillion cakes and it's so fun.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
What's your go to birthday cake or what flavor.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
I personally love, like an almond flavor, like a wedding cake,
just basic white on white, you know, and I've made
a bunch of different iterations of it, but like I'm
kind of a basic Kansas girl. Like I love a
really good fun fetti, I love a white wedding cake.
I recently nailed I read velvet cake for the first time.
(20:02):
Thank you to my best friend's grandma.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
What kind of icing did you do?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
It was?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I have the recipe card at the photo of it
in my phone and I may have even posted on
Instagram because it's handwritten and it's all faded from my
friend Brenna's grandma k because I'd made two different cakes
already and failed, and I was like, I have twenty
four hours before my husband's birthday and I gotta nail this.
And it's called no fail icing. And it's not cream cheese.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Right, That's what I was curious if you did, like
a vanilla butter cream or cream cheese, because red velvet
you can go either way.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Oh, it's like nothing I've ever had before. And I
will send you the link because well the link, which
is a photo of a recipe card because it's so
old school, but you put milk and flour on the
stove and you like it's like you put flour in it.
It's so it's so interesting.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Okay, I'm definitely curious about this, which if people want
to see your Instagram and all the photos and the
baking and the recipes at Nick at Night Music in
ice at in Ite Music. So, Nicole, why'd you go
with Nick at Night Music for your handle?
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Because it was my email address when I was in
college and as before.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Nid night hot mail AOL.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Yeah, it was a hot mail Okay. Actually my very
first email address was nash Underscore twenty two Underscore Ville
at hot mail like that. But then I moved to
Nick at Night And I don't know that I would
have put Nick at Night Music had I understood what
a big deal Instagram was going to be. But now
I am Nick at Night and so I forever will be.
(21:38):
Yeah that's what I know you as too.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
But it is interesting, Yeah, when you come up with
handles at the beginning of something not knowing. Yeah, who
knew that Instagram would even still be around or what
this stuff was? Twitter? Well, obviously there's Facebook, but I
think Twitter was where we got handle And I was like,
I don't know what is a.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Handle, that's what you put alcohol in. I didn't even
I thought Instagram when it first came out was just
an editing tool. I didn't know that it was like
a platform or like a community. So I was going
on there and editing photos over and over and saving them,
and I would have like twenty seven versions of the
same photo with different filters in a row, having no
(22:17):
idea anyone was following me and looking at all of
these awful things that I was posting.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
So I mean, well, your photographs, they're amazing. I know
you don't. You say that's not a job for you yet,
but I'm like, well, this could be like you just
have you have an eye, and you're very creative and
besides a spray tan since we talked about you getting
one those at the beginning, and you haven't really gotten
much darker as we were sitting here. But what is
(22:45):
something that as a woman makes you feel most confident?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Probably that sounds so woo woo.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
But when I when my nervous system is like calm,
that's my favorite version of myself. And so I think,
you know, that's where Kansas comes in. I think when
I feel calm and centered, I'm offering other people like
the best version of me, and so I come across
more confidently. And you know, the music business is stressful,
(23:14):
Like I'm not always you know, I come across a
certain way, but I'm so anxious under under the surface
all the time when I'm at music business events or
making decisions. But truly it's when I do the work
to just get calm and centered that I feel like, oh,
there I am.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
There's so many young artists were premiering their songs on
Women of iHeart Country and they're listening. That's one of
the fun parts is they'll be in the car and
they'll record it and they'll throw it on Instagram or TikTok,
and they're hearing their song on the radio for the
first time. Do you remember the first song you wrote
and it was recorded and was released to radio and
(23:52):
where you were maybe even what car you were in.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Yes, the first time that I heard we were Us
on the radio, I was on my way back. I
was driving back to my house fast and furiously because
I think maybe my daughter was just a few months
old at that point.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I had her in May.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
The song came out in August and I had just
gotten a blowout for like a music business function, and
I remember feeling so vulnerable, like, oh man, my body's
not right. I'm going going to this event tonight. I'm
not myself, you know. But i'd gotten a blowout and
I was in sweats a blowout, and I just remember
going through Green Hills and this song came on and
(24:28):
I just cried so hard, and I just remember sensory wise,
I can remember my hair sticking to my face, like
the tears on my face, and me feeling like, wow,
isn't this just all a metaphor? Like you're kind of
this is a mess, and you know you're worried about
what you look like going to a music business function,
but look what you've done, Like it was just in it.
Just it's just continued to be that way over and
(24:50):
over and over for me, Like every time there's a high,
it's always balanced out by some really like humbling life experience.
It's happening at home that like has kind of kept
grounded through it.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
I love that I got goosebumps as you were telling
the story. I love when artists truly remember the first
time they ever heard it and they've got you'd have
a story behind it. Even you remember the feeling of
your hair sticking to your cheeks.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
I also remember like trying to video myself, like driving
off the side of the road and like I should not,
Thank God, my daughter's not in here. I would not
be trusted to be a driver. But it was gosh,
it was wild. It feels like a million years ago.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Right, Nicole, You wrote Automatic, which Miranda Lambert sang it?
Who all were the writers on the song? What was
the automatic? Right day? Like?
Speaker 3 (25:38):
I wrote Automatic with Natalie Hemby and Miranda Lambert. Is
my first time to write with Miranda. I had been
writing for years with Natalie and she was like a sister,
So there was that comfort level to balance out the
nerves of getting to write with a legend like Miranda
for the first time and to set the scene. I
had never heard a song of mine played on the
radio or anything.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
At this point.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
When I got the opportunity to write with Miranda, I
was like, oh my gosh, Like nothing in my career
had technically quote worked yet, and so I just felt
a little out of my league, like and I was
a new mom, so tired, like, wow, the odds are
really against me today?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Is how it felt.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
And I walked in and you know, this is Miranda's
like superpower is just being so real. She doesn't have
a fake phone in her body, and just walking in,
it's like you feel like you've known her for twenty years.
And she just started talking about her career and we
all started having girl talk, and next thing you know,
we had this this idea started. And it was such
(26:35):
a special day because I was so nervous about the
fact that I had to take like a breast pump
to the to the right, you know, and I was like, well,
Miranda's not a mom, so maybe she's going to be.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Annoyed that you have to stop.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
And we got like a verse chorus, and I ran
in the other room like I have to pump, like
right now, I cannot wait any longer, and she's like, okay,
So I just but we were on a roll, so
we didn't want to stop the momentum of writing. So
I went right around the corner and just was pumping
and we could hear each other and we were screaming
lines back and forth to each other, and I just
remember her saying, whatever you do.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Don't stop pumping. What's the magic milk?
Speaker 3 (27:11):
And so we the second half of Automatic was definitely
written to that awful sound.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
That goes.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Pumping sound and pumping sound. That was our metronome. That
was our track to write too.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
That's funny. I feel like now every time people hear Automatic,
they will picture Nicole pumping.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
You're welcome everyone now.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Kelsey Ballerini is someone we feature on the show often,
just got hit hit after hit on Instagram. I see
y'all writing together all the time, taking writing trips, like, oh,
these writing trips they look fun, and y'all are dancing
and late nights and wine and hot tubs and what's
it like to write with Kelsey?
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Kelsey is one of the most effortless co writers that
I've ever written with. She like it's one of the
hardest things about songwriting is just getting that first line
and getting the first idea out, And she just has
a flow to her. And maybe it's because we are
drinking a lot of rose when we're on these trips,
but she can just get a song going and get
(28:14):
the plane off the ground better than almost anybody I've
ever written with in Nashville. And you know, it's fun
with her. I think our writing relationship feels very sisterly
and very like no agenda, like maybe we'll write something
that you'll want for you. But at the end of
the day, I think we just both become like equal
(28:34):
songwriters when we're together and we're just writing songs for
the love of writing songs, and sometimes we get lucky
and that turns into a song that's on the radio,
like half my Hometown. But there's a vault of songs
that we have written to get to those songs together,
and those are just a special to me because we're
all evolving. She's evolving, I'm evolving, and we got to
(28:55):
write through certain things to get to other songs. And
I've been really lucky that she invited me into her
process and that way to where I can be the
one that helps her right to get to where she
needs to go next.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
If there's anyone listening that they're thinking about maybe being
a songwriter, they feel like they've got something in them
for that, what advice would you give them if they're
starting out with, you know, even just pen to paper,
maybe they've never even shared it with anybody.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
I would say, like, just be as honest as possible.
And I think sometimes when you're honest and you're writing
it can make you and others feel awkward, And I
think that can be your superpower because in a town
where people are drowning in a thousand new songs every day,
even making someone feel a little bit uncomfortable when they
(29:39):
hear your lyrics can be what makes you memorable. So
if something feels a little bit uncomfortable for you when
you're writing it, keep leaning into that because it means
you're tapping into something and you're going somewhere that someone
else hasn't gone. And so you know, yeah, I dare
to be a little uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Love that.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Nicole's latest epiece, Second Wife. I'm going to read here
something about it. It shows the side of Nicole that
is flawed, self defrecating, understated, silly, and yet unconventionally traditional.
It's a side and Nicole that fell in love at
twenty one's second Wife, which, yeah, okay, never mind, we
(30:19):
don't talk about the age difference, no, we can.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Rodney it was Rodney. Rodney's eighteen years older than me.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I had I had a stepmom that
was about twenty years different from my dad. I feel
like that's still doable. You know, Robert de Niro's eighty
and he just had a baby with Like how old
is she? Forty five? A little different?
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Yeah, I mean there are definitely some logistical things when
you get that far apart that you're like, how is
this gonna work? But I, you know, it's funny. I
I thought I went into marrying someone older than me,
eyes wide open, knowing that it would come with it
set of challenges at some point, like maybe not when
we got married, but at some point. And we are
(31:02):
sixteen years into being married and we still we haven't
gotten there yet. So I you know, I'm ready for
when that day comes. You know, like everyone, we're gonna
have different seasons at different times. But I think that's
kind of our one of our strengths is that we
give each other space to be where we are at
that at that time. And I think, even if you're
the same age, you need to you need to learn
(31:23):
how to do that. But Rodney is like Benjamin Buttoning,
He's like young, as young and as youthful and as
playful as ever been at the age that he is now.
So to each their own, but I will fly the
older man flag proudly.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Oh yeah, it's working.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Did a photo shoot, probably for Second Wife. I'm not
sure that you put up some pictures the other day
and I was like, okay, hey cowboy, Yeah, yeah, he's
looking y'all. Both looked well, aren't you from Texas?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Are you from Texas?
Speaker 1 (31:50):
And Texas? Well?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
I you know, my first crush was at the age
of seven, and it was Troy Aikman, and I joke
that like, Troy Aikman like my first attraction, and then
I'm married like someone that looks like maybe he could
be like a Troy Aikman cousin. So thank you, Troy
wherever you are, for paving the way for Rodney.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Laid that ground word.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
That older man thing must have been in me. Yeah,
it was a part of me at a very young age.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Well, to round out what you said about Second Wife
is ep it's a side of you that you don't
always show, the married one. So I encourage everybody to
check it out. Six tracks with videos, which is I
think one of the coolest things that about firstborn And
they're in similar to firstborn? Are they in the order?
I mean firstborn is there's a specific order. It's telling
(32:39):
the story. Same thing I assume with Second Wife.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Second why it's really different. It's more of like scrapbook vibes. Okay,
it's not as much the words. The lyrics of the
songs kind of tell the story, and the video is
more of just like if we wanted to look back
and remember the process later on, we videoed it kind
of like a documentary like that.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Oh I love that. Okay, of course it's creatively different.
I thought maybe I'm the same vibe. But okay, well, Nicole,
thank you so much, Nicole Gallion. You'll follow her on
Instagram and TikTok at Nick at Night Music and check
out the first EP, Firstborn, But this latest EP so good.
It's called Second Wife. Bye Bye, thank you.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Women of iHeart Country
Women of iHeart Country sitting here with Nicole A galleon,
and before we sat down, Nicole's like, Okay, I have
an event tonight. I guess our record labels throwing a party,
a toga party.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yeah, I don't know how to toga.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Yeah, and so yeah, being in a white sheet or
toga situation, I could see how you'd maybe want a
spraytan for that. And you just got it.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm like dripping wet in spraytan formula right now.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
So she said that by the time the interview's done,
it may have advanced to the darker level.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
You know when they shoot movies and they need like continuity,
you have to if you show any of this out
of order, I'm going to look different shades.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, as it well.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
I mean, I think any woman listening to this right
now can appreciate that, because we all have the struggle
of the spray tan, whether it's the rapid one that's
just going really quick, or maybe the one you sleep
in and you wake up and your sheets, your white
sheets look tan.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
It's awful.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Ron's awful. But Nicole is here to talk about way
more than spray tans that just came up your EP
Second Wife came out on October thirteenth, and it was
your sixteenth wedding anniversary to your husband, and so I
think it speaks for itself that you're his second wife.
(01:17):
But why make that the title of the EP? Now?
I was a huge fan of the Firstborn, huge fan,
such a beautiful project that I encourage everybody to go
check out if you haven't yet, or revisit it because
there's such good stuff on there. But let's talk about
Second Wife. Well.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Second Wife actually started when we wrote the last song
for Firstborn, which was five Year Plan, and that record
was all about the arc of my story as an individual,
and I said that one was the one for me.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
But I couldn't tell my.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Whole story without our story kind of wrapping it up,
and so we wrote five Year Plan. It was like
the first song we had ever really written the two
of us about us, and it was so special the
experience that I just said, I want to do more
of that, Like even if no one even hears these
songs or they don't make sense for anyone else, let's
do more of that. Like I just want us to
spend more time together writing we are. That's like the
(02:09):
one part of each other's lives we've never shared is
what it's like to be in a writing room together.
And so it was that paired with well what comes
after first? Second? Oh wait, I'm a second wife. It
just kind of all came together in one moment. And
I didn't even know like what the arc of the
second wife story would be until we started writing.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
And so, just to clarify for people that don't know
your husband's songwriter.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yeah, I'm married to Rodney Clauson. He's kind of a
big deal if you are into who writes the songs
that are on the radio. He's written a lot of
He's written like twenty five number.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Ones and twenty five number ones. Yeah, yeah, that's that's amazing.
How many number ones do you have? Do you have?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Ten?
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Ten?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I made it to Devil Digits, which feels somehow really significant.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Which some that y'all would most definitely know. Automatic Miranda
Lambert thought you should know Morgan wallin which I got
to say that song it came out a couple of
years ago, but something about it this year. I'm not
quite sure, but I have been listening to it on
repeat the last few months. I just love it. I
don't know why it's hitting me different. I loved it then.
(03:20):
Do you know so many other hits have come out,
even from Morgan since then, But I'm it's like I'm
revisiting it like it's new.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Do you when you listen to it? Are you more
of the one making the phone call or the one
getting the phone call?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I'm the one making the phone call. And my mom
passed away well nine years ago this month, and so
I think that I you know, honestly, I probably I
picture Morgan on the phone to his mom, but I
am I am him like I'm the one making the
phone call to the mom. I'm not on the receiving
end from my kids. I don't know that's there to
(03:51):
that point where they would call me yet to tell me.
I thought you should know.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Fully.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Sunday sixteen year old, so thirteen, So different different ages.
But that's such a beautiful song. What was the writing
process for that song?
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Like, honestly, I give all the credit to Morgan on that.
It was a really crazy day because it was me,
Miranda Lambert and Morgan Wallen on my porch swings and
I think it was the end of twenty twenty and
there was really no agenda that day. He had just
finished the Dangerous Record, so we weren't even really trying
to write for anyone in the room. But he came
(04:27):
in and he said, Hey, I've always wanted to write
something for my mom, and I had started this and
he had so much of the song sussed out. And
I'm not trying to just like gas him up. I
mean truly like that song was his and he brought
us in on that. But he has since told me.
I think he said in another interview, like, I don't
know that I would have written that song if I
wasn't in the room with females, maybe bringing out some
(04:49):
of his vulnerable, softer side. I don't know, I'm just speculating,
but that's my favorite thing about you know, first time
co writes is you don't even know like what people
are going to bring out in each other there. And
that song was the outcome of that day.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
So that was the very first time that you had
written with Morgan, not Miranda, but Morgan and Miranda together. Yeah,
that and y'all came up with that. That's I mean, it's
gold you as the writer, were you like picturing your
kids calling you or you calling your mom.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
I just remembered when we were when we came up
with the line of you know, been losing sleep since
ninety three, I just immediately thought, been losing sleep since
twenty fifteen when I had my son, and I was like, man,
I just hope and pray that I get one phone
call like this someday. I hope that we have the
relationship that you know, they're like boomerangs, Like these kids,
(05:42):
you like send them out in the world and you
just pray that they go as far and as fast
as they can toward whatever they're going toward, but that
ultimately they will come back to you and have touch
points with you. And that's where my head was at.
I was just like, God, I hope my son care's
enough to write a song about me someday.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah. I love that.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Other songs that people definitely know from you. Half of
My Hometown with Kelsey and Kenny, Homecoming Queen, another good
one with Kelsey boy Lee Brice, Consequences, Camilla Kibo, which
when you cross over like you're in the country space
and you went to Belmont. Let's talk about that before
we get intoto more songs and more of Second Wife,
(06:22):
but were you setting out to be more of a
songwriter or an artist when you were at Belmont, and
then how did you get from country into even some
of these pop spaces.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
Well, I actually never came here to be an artist
or a songwriter. I came here wanting to be a
manager or an agent or a record in the music business.
I just wanted to be one degree away from the
center of my biggest passion, which was country music. And
I got here and then met songwriting and met songwriters
and learned that that was a job I could have.
(06:53):
And then I just must have been had enough of
an ego or I was just delusional and thought I
could do it, and so I started writing by myself.
And you know, I always wanted to be a songwriter.
I'm more of a creative. I don't love to perform,
so I didn't ever really want to be an artist
because the performance and going on tour is such a
big piece of it, and I have crazy nerves around performing.
(07:16):
It like takes the life out of me. Honestly, it
like fills true artists up that were meant to be
on stage. They go on stage and they come off
stage and their cup is full because they did that,
it depletes me. So I just wanted to be a
creative and create and write songs. And you know, at
a certain point when no one was recording my songs,
I just thought, well, maybe I should be the artist
(07:36):
if that's.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Gonna be how I get my songs out in the world.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
So there was like a brief stint in there where
I went on the voice and I was playing some
showcases around town and was trying to make inroads with
labels and stuff. And luckily it didn't work out for
me because I am so glad that I have like
the perfectly curated life for myself now that I have
where I get to be home. I don't have to
be on the room ode. I just get to create
(08:02):
wherever I can.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
And so being married to a songwriter or do y'all ever,
just you're sitting around the table, does something organically come
up and you're like, we should go get a guitar
and get a pen and paper, and you just start
it even though you had no intention of doing that
in the moment.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Yeah, that happens a lot, but usually because historically we
haven't written together a lot. So when we're like at
a dinner and someone says something in a conversation and
it's like we both look at each other and we're like, oh,
that's a song title. He always says first to write
it wins. And so then we like look at our
calendars and like you just never know who's going to
get in the room next and write it. But we've
(08:38):
always written it with other people. And now that we've
you know, written the CP and now we're writing together,
it's like this new era for us. I think when
those moments happen and we have a song idea that
comes up, we're going to just write them together.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Now, y'all wrote it out at your farm, yes, which
is near Nashville. Writing with a spouse is different than
like if you're writing with you know, Miranda or any
of the other laundry list of people that you have
written with, do you have to like take breaks or.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
I think I think the reason that we didn't write
together for so long was because we wanted to have boundaries,
and we're both wildly independent. But something has shifted in
our relationship where even with boundaries like we it's because
when you write, you really can't have a lot of boundaries.
You need to be able to be open and for
(09:32):
us to be in a room we're so close it
would stress anyone out to be around us trying to
go write with us, because we would say anything about
anything to each other. Everything's on the table, and when
you're right in the room with a third or a
fourth writer, you're kind of like, well, you got to
keep some things like professional, you know, I don't know
that we could have been professional. And so now I
(09:53):
think the secret is writing just the two of us,
because we can, you know, stop in the middle and
go do whatever we want to do or say I
hate that or I don't. And writing Second Wife specifically
was so cool because I don't even remember songs starting
and ending. We would just start conversations and then like
the next thing, you know, we're writing a song. Or
(10:14):
we would pour all this wine. He was drinking tequila,
I think a lot, and we would just like sit
on the couch and I'm drinking wine, he's drinking tequila,
and we'd play We're not really strangers the card game
and that would turn into a conversation about us and
then I'm like, wait, that's a song, and that's really
how we wrote it. We gave ourselves two weekends and
we said, what we write in these two weekends is
(10:36):
the project. And it was this really fun challenge to
just be as present as possible and shut out everything
else in the world because we had one task, which
was just to spend time together and create.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
I love these projects for everybody because we all get
to enjoy it, but especially your kids. Oh yeah, like
how cool for firstborn they have that, and then now
they have their parents with second wife. It's just when
they're older. I just go such a gift. Yeah, I
think that's or even now they don't even have to
be older.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah, it is kind of fun.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Even like you know, we've had even in our family,
there's a lot of things that you need to explain
to your kids as they get older, and it's kind
of I think there's a connection between what I'm writing
and trying to get out on Firstborn and Second Wife.
That felt somewhat age appropriate for me to start telling
my kids about those things from my life. That it's
(11:28):
that in turn is going to give them a better
understanding of theirs and where they come from and who
they come from.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, because the title of one of the songs is
Prenup and it's y'all poking fun at your lack of
a need for a prenup upon marriage.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Oh, we were both a financial liability to each other
at that point. I came in with a lot of
private school like college loans. Rodney had back taxes. We
were like, why would we ever need a prenup? And
now it's kind of like it's balanced itself out because
(12:05):
I think we've both you know, paved our own way
on our you know, if we split it in half,
it kind of it's all the same now.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Other songs the Grain, which is about how different love
stories can look. Rooms about multiple life experiences, and how
walking through rooms has evolved throughout their relationship. Tell me
about that.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Rooms was a song that came from us having too
much to drink and playing we're not really strangers, and
I forget what the card prompted us to talk about,
but I started reminiscing about how differently it has felt
over the years walking into the BMI Awards with him.
It's an event we have in here in Nashville. It's
exclusive for songwriting and publishing, and it's kind of like
(12:47):
the super Bowl of songwriting.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Every year.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
It's like everyone gets dressed up, and I remember I've
gone now I guess like seventeen or eighteen years now
with him, and I was just like, it's just wild
when you watch how differently every night of the BMI
Awards has felt, from me walking in and him winning
Writer of the Year, to then me winning writer and
then last year I went by myself and had a
really great night, but he was off hunting and we
(13:12):
were talking through all that, and then I was like,
and then if you go back to the very first year,
this is how it felt to me to walk into
that room with you. And I told him all this
and he said, I had no idea that that's what
you were experiencing. I just thought you were excited to
get dressed up and go to the party. I was like, no,
there was so much more wrapped into it for me,
and so we just on the spot. I just started like,
(13:35):
you know, like there's our title rooms and you know
what will I wear? I remember, just like, what person,
no matter what your life story is, has what girl
hasn't like overthought you know everything that every move she
made when she walked in a room. It's it's just
part of I think being a young woman Texas.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Hold Him is another song which is lighthearted, cheeky romantic
song under the Rainbow. Now this one is this written
by others? Are y all involved in this?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
All? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (14:06):
We took a song that is, you know, already like
a huge classic song and kind of did our own
little spin on if we could, if we could rewrite that,
what would it sound like? Our version of the fairy tale?
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah? I love putting a spin on things. Which, speaking
of thought, you should go back to that with Morgan
Wall And there's a DJ that put a spin on
that with and merged it with Tupac Dear Mama. Have
you heard it? No? Because you know, if you think
about it, Tupac singing to his mom, Oh yeah, dear mama.
When I was young, me and my mama had beef
seventeen years old. You know, he's like laid to don't
Ginova love you sweet Laid and then Morgan singing to
(14:44):
his mom. But he kind of merges and the beats
kind of go together. It's so good. I'm going to
text it to you. Please do I have to go
see this because and it's just a snippet. I wanted
to DM the DJ and be like, can you sing
me the full? Can you do a full version? So
I can listen to this over and over since but
I just listened to the Instagram reel over and over.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Okay, well that is a task for some young DJ
out there to go put it on TikTok so we
can all.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Use this one on. Yeah, he has like a million
followers on TikTok. Eric, Well, I'm going to find it
now and then I'll play it for you. But it
is so good and I'll send it to you. But
I want to go to the first song on the track,
save this one for last, because I thought it was
really special that there's a song expressing gratitude to your
your mother in law and how she shaped Rodney, your husband,
(15:30):
her son. So talk us through Joe, which is the title.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Joe is Rodney's mom, but Joe is a name that
is a common thread through Rodney's life and beyond his mom,
his his sister the past. When he was younger, her
middle name was Joe. Our daughter's middle.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Name is Joe.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
My aunt Joe Anne, who's like the sister that he
never had. I mean it just Joe keeps stowing up
in his life and I just I just was like, Okay,
I have to write a song called Joe.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
And as I was steing on that.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
I realized what a trailblazer his mom was from me
in his life. She you know, she's that like, take
twelve diet cokes out in a cooler and drive the
tractor and she'll she'll cut all the She's like, she's
very much that I can do it myself mentality, and
we're so different, she and I, but I just wanted
to give her. I wanted to give credit where credit
(16:17):
is due for maybe why he was even attracted to
me in the first place. And I can as I
as I now have kids, I start to imagine, like,
what's it going to be like when my kids bring
people home and I can see, oh, you like this
one maybe because your dad's this way or I'm this
way or And I really leaned into the idea that
of just gratitude for her in all of her quirky
(16:41):
and beautiful ways. And it was so fun to write
with him, because I don't know that he would have
ever on his own written a song about his mom,
but it kind of forced him. I mean, all those
details in there really came from him. You know, green
roof on a gravel road. I'm like, I didn't remember
that the house you grew up in had a green roof.
But yeah, she's she's an okay cook and I'm an
okay cook. And I think he doesn't care if he's
(17:03):
married to a great cook because of her. And I'm
so grateful for that, Nicole.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
I know, just seeing you bake and cook on Instagram,
I'm impressed.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
I like to bake Kansas. Kansas has brought out my
Martha Stewart's side. But he always says, like if I
go like three days in a row without making dinner,
He's like, I didn't marry for that. And then I
always think about his mom. I'm like, oh, yeah, she
would love. She'd throw anything in a microwave, you know
what I mean. She'll freeze pizza, hut pizza for six
months and then pull it out.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
You know. I mean, I'm like that, thank you, thank
God that she was that way.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, there's this mom. Have you seen her. She's gone viral.
I can't think of the handle, but she's you know,
she'll be in the kitchen like with her son and
they're doing dishes together, like this is a normal thing,
and the caption will be like and she's kind of
glaring into the camera and she'll be like, me doing
dishes with my son, like it's normal, so that when
he's married, it's not like this big deal for him
(17:59):
to have to do dishes.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Yeah, Rodney prides himself on the fact that he can
make a really mean mashed potato. And I think it's
because his mom. I really hope Joe Alice is not
listening to this right now, but would not make a
lot of mashed potatoes, like on Thanksgiving, and he's got
some deep trauma about the lack of mash potatoes because
he'll make twenty five pounds of mashed potatoes every Thanksgiving.
And I'm like, okay, I mean so yeah. I think
(18:22):
we all, you know, are living out the things that
maybe we didn't have.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Well, you mentioned earlier that you know, once you realize, okay,
I'm going to be a songwriter, and you do have
your own albums, your own music that you perform, but
performing is not necessarily something that fills your cup up.
It depletes you. So what are the things that you
do besides songwriting that fill your cup up?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Well, I love playing volleyball like sand or court. I'll
play sand, but I prefer court. I actually am on
a rec league volleyball team back in my hometown right
now with a bunch of girls that I grew up with,
and it is literally the most joy that I've ever
had in my life, in my adult life. And I
love taking photos. I'm forever a yearbook editor. I've been
carrying a camera over my shoulder long before there was
(19:07):
an Instagram or a Facebook. I just love the storytelling
and the creativity of photos. And it's like a part
of my life that hasn't become a business, and so
it's just so pure. I just love, you know, I
love taking photos, and I do love baking cakes. Now
this is a new thing for me. When I go
back to my hometown, I have quiet and I have space.
(19:28):
And somehow later in life, like at the age of
like thirty six, I discovered that I needed to learn
how to bake a good birthday cake. And it just
has taken on a life of its own and I
have made a gazillion cakes and it's so fun.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
What's your go to birthday cake or what flavor.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
I personally love, like an almond flavor, like a wedding cake,
just basic white on white, you know, and I've made
a bunch of different iterations of it, but like I'm
kind of a basic Kansas girl. Like I love a
really good fun fetti, I love a white wedding cake.
I recently nailed I read velvet cake for the first time.
(20:02):
Thank you to my best friend's grandma.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
What kind of icing did you do?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
It was?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I have the recipe card at the photo of it
in my phone and I may have even posted on
Instagram because it's handwritten and it's all faded from my
friend Brenna's grandma k because I'd made two different cakes
already and failed, and I was like, I have twenty
four hours before my husband's birthday and I gotta nail this.
And it's called no fail icing. And it's not cream cheese.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Right, That's what I was curious if you did, like
a vanilla butter cream or cream cheese, because red velvet
you can go either way.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Oh, it's like nothing I've ever had before. And I
will send you the link because well the link, which
is a photo of a recipe card because it's so
old school, but you put milk and flour on the
stove and you like it's like you put flour in it.
It's so it's so interesting.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Okay, I'm definitely curious about this, which if people want
to see your Instagram and all the photos and the
baking and the recipes at Nick at Night Music in
ice at in Ite Music. So, Nicole, why'd you go
with Nick at Night Music for your handle?
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Because it was my email address when I was in
college and as before.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Nid night hot mail AOL.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Yeah, it was a hot mail Okay. Actually my very
first email address was nash Underscore twenty two Underscore Ville
at hot mail like that. But then I moved to
Nick at Night And I don't know that I would
have put Nick at Night Music had I understood what
a big deal Instagram was going to be. But now
I am Nick at Night and so I forever will be.
(21:38):
Yeah that's what I know you as too.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
But it is interesting, Yeah, when you come up with
handles at the beginning of something not knowing. Yeah, who
knew that Instagram would even still be around or what
this stuff was? Twitter? Well, obviously there's Facebook, but I
think Twitter was where we got handle And I was like,
I don't know what is a.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Handle, that's what you put alcohol in. I didn't even
I thought Instagram when it first came out was just
an editing tool. I didn't know that it was like
a platform or like a community. So I was going
on there and editing photos over and over and saving them,
and I would have like twenty seven versions of the
same photo with different filters in a row, having no
(22:17):
idea anyone was following me and looking at all of
these awful things that I was posting.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
So I mean, well, your photographs, they're amazing. I know
you don't. You say that's not a job for you yet,
but I'm like, well, this could be like you just
have you have an eye, and you're very creative and
besides a spray tan since we talked about you getting
one those at the beginning, and you haven't really gotten
much darker as we were sitting here. But what is
(22:45):
something that as a woman makes you feel most confident?
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Probably that sounds so woo woo.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
But when I when my nervous system is like calm,
that's my favorite version of myself. And so I think,
you know, that's where Kansas comes in. I think when
I feel calm and centered, I'm offering other people like
the best version of me, and so I come across
more confidently. And you know, the music business is stressful,
(23:14):
Like I'm not always you know, I come across a
certain way, but I'm so anxious under under the surface
all the time when I'm at music business events or
making decisions. But truly it's when I do the work
to just get calm and centered that I feel like, oh,
there I am.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
There's so many young artists were premiering their songs on
Women of iHeart Country and they're listening. That's one of
the fun parts is they'll be in the car and
they'll record it and they'll throw it on Instagram or TikTok,
and they're hearing their song on the radio for the
first time. Do you remember the first song you wrote
and it was recorded and was released to radio and
(23:52):
where you were maybe even what car you were in.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Yes, the first time that I heard we were Us
on the radio, I was on my way back. I
was driving back to my house fast and furiously because
I think maybe my daughter was just a few months
old at that point.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I had her in May.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
The song came out in August and I had just
gotten a blowout for like a music business function, and
I remember feeling so vulnerable, like, oh man, my body's
not right. I'm going going to this event tonight. I'm
not myself, you know. But i'd gotten a blowout and
I was in sweats a blowout, and I just remember
going through Green Hills and this song came on and
(24:28):
I just cried so hard, and I just remember sensory wise,
I can remember my hair sticking to my face, like
the tears on my face, and me feeling like, wow,
isn't this just all a metaphor? Like you're kind of
this is a mess, and you know you're worried about
what you look like going to a music business function,
but look what you've done, Like it was just in it.
Just it's just continued to be that way over and
(24:50):
over and over for me, Like every time there's a high,
it's always balanced out by some really like humbling life experience.
It's happening at home that like has kind of kept
grounded through it.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
I love that I got goosebumps as you were telling
the story. I love when artists truly remember the first
time they ever heard it and they've got you'd have
a story behind it. Even you remember the feeling of
your hair sticking to your cheeks.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
I also remember like trying to video myself, like driving
off the side of the road and like I should not,
Thank God, my daughter's not in here. I would not
be trusted to be a driver. But it was gosh,
it was wild. It feels like a million years ago.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Right, Nicole, You wrote Automatic, which Miranda Lambert sang it?
Who all were the writers on the song? What was
the automatic? Right day? Like?
Speaker 3 (25:38):
I wrote Automatic with Natalie Hemby and Miranda Lambert. Is
my first time to write with Miranda. I had been
writing for years with Natalie and she was like a sister,
So there was that comfort level to balance out the
nerves of getting to write with a legend like Miranda
for the first time and to set the scene. I
had never heard a song of mine played on the
radio or anything.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
At this point.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
When I got the opportunity to write with Miranda, I
was like, oh my gosh, Like nothing in my career
had technically quote worked yet, and so I just felt
a little out of my league, like and I was
a new mom, so tired, like, wow, the odds are
really against me today?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Is how it felt.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
And I walked in and you know, this is Miranda's
like superpower is just being so real. She doesn't have
a fake phone in her body, and just walking in,
it's like you feel like you've known her for twenty years.
And she just started talking about her career and we
all started having girl talk, and next thing you know,
we had this this idea started. And it was such
(26:35):
a special day because I was so nervous about the
fact that I had to take like a breast pump
to the to the right, you know, and I was like, well,
Miranda's not a mom, so maybe she's going to be.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Annoyed that you have to stop.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
And we got like a verse chorus, and I ran
in the other room like I have to pump, like
right now, I cannot wait any longer, and she's like, okay,
So I just but we were on a roll, so
we didn't want to stop the momentum of writing. So
I went right around the corner and just was pumping
and we could hear each other and we were screaming
lines back and forth to each other, and I just
remember her saying, whatever you do.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Don't stop pumping. What's the magic milk?
Speaker 3 (27:11):
And so we the second half of Automatic was definitely
written to that awful sound.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
That goes.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Pumping sound and pumping sound. That was our metronome. That
was our track to write too.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
That's funny. I feel like now every time people hear Automatic,
they will picture Nicole pumping.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
You're welcome everyone now.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Kelsey Ballerini is someone we feature on the show often,
just got hit hit after hit on Instagram. I see
y'all writing together all the time, taking writing trips, like, oh,
these writing trips they look fun, and y'all are dancing
and late nights and wine and hot tubs and what's
it like to write with Kelsey?
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Kelsey is one of the most effortless co writers that
I've ever written with. She like it's one of the
hardest things about songwriting is just getting that first line
and getting the first idea out, And she just has
a flow to her. And maybe it's because we are
drinking a lot of rose when we're on these trips,
but she can just get a song going and get
(28:14):
the plane off the ground better than almost anybody I've
ever written with in Nashville. And you know, it's fun
with her. I think our writing relationship feels very sisterly
and very like no agenda, like maybe we'll write something
that you'll want for you. But at the end of
the day, I think we just both become like equal
(28:34):
songwriters when we're together and we're just writing songs for
the love of writing songs, and sometimes we get lucky
and that turns into a song that's on the radio,
like half my Hometown. But there's a vault of songs
that we have written to get to those songs together,
and those are just a special to me because we're
all evolving. She's evolving, I'm evolving, and we got to
(28:55):
write through certain things to get to other songs. And
I've been really lucky that she invited me into her
process and that way to where I can be the
one that helps her right to get to where she
needs to go next.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
If there's anyone listening that they're thinking about maybe being
a songwriter, they feel like they've got something in them
for that, what advice would you give them if they're
starting out with, you know, even just pen to paper,
maybe they've never even shared it with anybody.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
I would say, like, just be as honest as possible.
And I think sometimes when you're honest and you're writing
it can make you and others feel awkward, And I
think that can be your superpower because in a town
where people are drowning in a thousand new songs every day,
even making someone feel a little bit uncomfortable when they
(29:39):
hear your lyrics can be what makes you memorable. So
if something feels a little bit uncomfortable for you when
you're writing it, keep leaning into that because it means
you're tapping into something and you're going somewhere that someone
else hasn't gone. And so you know, yeah, I dare
to be a little uncomfortable.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Love that.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Nicole's latest epiece, Second Wife. I'm going to read here
something about it. It shows the side of Nicole that
is flawed, self defrecating, understated, silly, and yet unconventionally traditional.
It's a side and Nicole that fell in love at
twenty one's second Wife, which, yeah, okay, never mind, we
(30:19):
don't talk about the age difference, no, we can.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Rodney it was Rodney. Rodney's eighteen years older than me.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I had I had a stepmom that
was about twenty years different from my dad. I feel
like that's still doable. You know, Robert de Niro's eighty
and he just had a baby with Like how old
is she? Forty five? A little different?
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Yeah, I mean there are definitely some logistical things when
you get that far apart that you're like, how is
this gonna work? But I, you know, it's funny. I
I thought I went into marrying someone older than me,
eyes wide open, knowing that it would come with it
set of challenges at some point, like maybe not when
we got married, but at some point. And we are
(31:02):
sixteen years into being married and we still we haven't
gotten there yet. So I you know, I'm ready for
when that day comes. You know, like everyone, we're gonna
have different seasons at different times. But I think that's
kind of our one of our strengths is that we
give each other space to be where we are at
that at that time. And I think, even if you're
the same age, you need to you need to learn
(31:23):
how to do that. But Rodney is like Benjamin Buttoning,
He's like young, as young and as youthful and as
playful as ever been at the age that he is now.
So to each their own, but I will fly the
older man flag proudly.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Oh yeah, it's working.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Did a photo shoot, probably for Second Wife. I'm not
sure that you put up some pictures the other day
and I was like, okay, hey cowboy, Yeah, yeah, he's
looking y'all. Both looked well, aren't you from Texas?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Are you from Texas?
Speaker 1 (31:50):
And Texas? Well?
Speaker 3 (31:52):
I you know, my first crush was at the age
of seven, and it was Troy Aikman, and I joke
that like, Troy Aikman like my first attraction, and then
I'm married like someone that looks like maybe he could
be like a Troy Aikman cousin. So thank you, Troy
wherever you are, for paving the way for Rodney.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Laid that ground word.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
That older man thing must have been in me. Yeah,
it was a part of me at a very young age.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Well, to round out what you said about Second Wife
is ep it's a side of you that you don't
always show, the married one. So I encourage everybody to
check it out. Six tracks with videos, which is I
think one of the coolest things that about firstborn And
they're in similar to firstborn? Are they in the order?
I mean firstborn is there's a specific order. It's telling
(32:39):
the story. Same thing I assume with Second Wife.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Second why it's really different. It's more of like scrapbook vibes. Okay,
it's not as much the words. The lyrics of the
songs kind of tell the story, and the video is
more of just like if we wanted to look back
and remember the process later on, we videoed it kind
of like a documentary like that.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Oh I love that. Okay, of course it's creatively different.
I thought maybe I'm the same vibe. But okay, well, Nicole,
thank you so much, Nicole Gallion. You'll follow her on
Instagram and TikTok at Nick at Night Music and check
out the first EP, Firstborn, But this latest EP so good.
It's called Second Wife. Bye Bye, thank you.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
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