The Book of Joe: Here comes the trade deadline!

In this episode of 'The Book of Joe' Podcast, Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci look back at the All Star Game.  From the uniforms to the players, what were the best and worst parts of the mid-season classic?  The MLB trade deadline is July 30th, who are the players that could be on the move?  Tom highlights the needs of some of the contending teams.  Plus, we remember the life and impact of pitcher Jerry Walker.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Darren, welcome back to the Book of Joe Podcast.
It's me Tom Berducci and of course Joe Madden and Joe.
I'd like to say we're starting the second half of

(00:24):
the season, but the All Star Game came a little
bit later this year. Most teams are played have played
close to one hundred games already, so it's sprint mode
now at this point. But I think it's a good
time Joe to recap the All Star Game and coming
up on the trade deadline, which is right around the corner.
First of all, give me your impressions at the All

(00:45):
Star Game this year.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Well, I think, first of all, I hate at the uniforms.
I really want to get I really want us to
get either. I mean, you know you talk about bad decisions.
I don't get that part. I really I would. I
would bet whatever that next year it's going to be
back to the players uniforms. Love the IDFC, my guy
in my UNI and if I'm participating, same way. So

(01:09):
that's that gets you off to the best art.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
However, well, let me say something on that, Joe, because
you're absolutely right that from what I hear there's strong
consideration that next year they will be returning to individual
team uniforms. Now it may be City Connect uniforms, it
may be a combination thereof, but I agree with you.
I think most baseball fans want to see their team's

(01:31):
players in their uniforms right represent your team and not
be wearing a softball uniform. And I think what's happened
here with Nike is, you know, the design people have
just gotten out of control, and I see it with
the City Connect uniforms that they started out okay, and
they're trying to outdo one another in terms of let's
make this even more outrageous, and they're there. I get

(01:55):
you're trying to appeal to a younger audience. I get that,
but you're also alienating your core audience. They've just gone
way too far with the design of these things, so
they have no sense of baseball tradition or history. And listen,
I'm all for new stuff, but there has to be
a wink in a nod to baseball tradition as well.
And I'm with you seeing those guys lined up over

(02:15):
the years in the All Star Game wearing their individual uniforms.
How cool. Is that all the different colors it is.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
And I mean, we're not the University of Oregon here,
you know, It's not like you're going to do a
different thing every week to ameliorate or apease this twenty
something year old group. I know we keep attempting to
attract younger fans, and I understand why that is, but
I just think it's going the wrong direction with all
this to constantly dumb down the game. That now batflips

(02:44):
are being described even by old school, old time kind
of announcers appreciating the bat flip ball of a sudden
and and just this little generalities within the game, you know,
inability to take out a middle infielder. I know you
might be into that, but I really still believe in
the hard slide in the second base. There's a lot
of things that we're doing. I don't quite understand why

(03:06):
it appeals to my methodology. I always thought would be
to get the players more involved. And my idea was
we've talked about this through Skype and then zoom. Have
players zoom groups, classrooms, leagues, whatever. Because the ability to
utilize Zoom to get to a large group very easily,

(03:26):
very quickly with one Mike Trout with one Showy O
Tani with one Aaron Judge. I mean, there's the connection
where you're actually talking to a group of kids and
able to philosophize and what got you there and what
you deemed to be important and what is your practice day,
like your diet, why is your diet so important to you? Whatever?
How much time do you actually spend on your device's

(03:48):
cell phones, iPads, whatever. This is the kind of stuff
to me that we don't take any advantage of. It's
a very superficial way, I think to go about this,
I'd like to get a little bit more in depth.
I'd like to teach young people what the game is
all about, how to play it properly and correct to
really that would be my way to attempt to draw
them in. To just do all these superficial things that

(04:10):
are just gonna go away. You're not gonna eventually get
what you want, which is to attempt to garner a
younger fan base. Younger fan base has got to play
the game and understand the game to really want to
follow the game. We're to continually lose players to soccer, football, basketball, etc.
So it's the longest played game it's the game that

(04:31):
traditionally speaking, historically speaking, we talk about things that happened
in the early nineteen hundreds at least up to present time.
The Willie Mayses of the world, all the group of
people that are recently passing. This is what it's all about.
We don't ever do anything to perpetuate that. We're not
even almost like ashamed of our history and our history

(04:51):
in general. It's just reading about civics and schools where
kids don't know nothing about civics current day situations because
they don't study that stuff. So I just don't like
the methodology of the attemp to gardner young viewers or
or or baseball players, or really to recreate the interest
necessary to regrow our game. That's a diatribe. I get

(05:15):
the game itself. I watched a little bit of it.
I'm really you know, the the Home of Derby doesn't
interest me at all, quite frankly, and the and the
game itself. I wanted to see Skeens pitch. I did,
and I know he didn't like overpower, but I promise
if he was there for the second, third, and fourth
inning he'd have really shown his medal At that point.
The kid ran from Boston. I love this guy. His

(05:39):
postgame interview cannot be more genuine and how he feels
about who he is and what he's doing, and that's
what needs to be promoted, that kind of person, that
kind of value system. That to me was really resonated
with him. And of course show Hay doing a show
hey thing. So there was a couple of takeaways from it,

(06:00):
but it just gets off to such a really for
me negative start by just putting the best players in
the world into costumes. I'm watching Boach get interviewed in
front of the dugout there in that unigram and it
really bothered me.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, yeah, I gotta tell you. When we went to
talk to Boach with the Fox broadcast team before the
game to do our pregame meeting, we all did a
double take seeing him in those pajamas. I mean, wow,
I'm glad you brought up Jared Durant. You know, I
was not able to get this into the broadcast, but
it's an amazing story. You know, he had written on

(06:35):
his wristbands stayed Alive and basically ethim on the other wrist.
He's gone through a lot of mental health issues and
this is the guy. He got to the big leagues,
had a really rough time hit two nineteen his first
two years, and you know, Joe, this game by itself
can beat down the best of people and the strongest

(06:55):
of people with all the failure associated with it. When
you fail in Boston, you know, it's extrapolated in terms
of the kind of pressure of someone feels in a
very dark place. And thankfully he's come out of that.
More so than that, he's been very open about his
battle with mental health issues, and he has encouraged people
and is invigorated by the people who reach out to

(07:16):
him and thank him for being so public about facing
his mental health battle. So it's a great story. He's
as humble as it gets, as hard working as it gets.
He's a kid who grew up wanting to be a
Navy seal, and is really an inspiring story about someone
coming out on the other side of really a dark place.
And the stay Alive message on his wrist is he

(07:38):
realizes now that you know, nothing was guaranteed to be here,
to be in the major leagues, to be here at all,
was not a certainty for this young man. And as
he said, you know, he can look down at that
risk and you know, what is a bad day or
a bad game compared to where he was. It's nothing.
And he's got a terrific perspective. He's a great player.

(08:00):
I mean, just a super talented athletic guy with you know,
quick twitch, fiber muscles. It can running and jumping, and
he saw the power. So I was glad he got
the stage. I wish I was able to tell his
story more because it is very inspiring.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Joe latter day Jimmy pearsall in a sense, right perce
strikes out the famous movie with Crol Maldon and that
was at Anthony Perkins at that time, a Red Sox player, right,
having mental health issues based on a very overbearing father.
I didn't know all this. And see that's the thing.
I mean, you know better than I how much this

(08:35):
has been publicized about him, maybe more locally or regionally
with the Red Sox, but this is the kind of
story that needs to be told to glorify that.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, it's funny, Joe. It sounds like you picked up
on his postgame interview that this sort of humility that
he has and you weren't even really aware of the
details of the story not at all interesting at all.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
I had never heard him speak before I saw him
in the dougout. I think Poppy tried to interact with him,
and he really didn't want it to have anything to
do with that. He wanted nothing to do with that,
and I don't blame him. He was just trying to
get ready to do although he might have been out
of the game.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
Whatever he was coming out, he was like third line
to hit, so he was getting.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
To leave me alone. Leave me alone, man, that's what
I got. I love that part of it too. Yeah,
I was so enthralled by him, even in that short
period of time I was introduced to him. But that's
that's what it's all about. I didn't realize the trek
with mental illness. I had no idea about that, even
back to the sealed component of it all. Obviously high

(09:35):
strung kind of kid that, like you said, is so
driven to the point that things like this can bother
him a lot when things aren't working out one. I
totally understand that. But I'm a big fan, big fan
of him personality wise, big fan of him on how
he plays the game, and that's the way the game
needs to be played. All out, all the time, never

(09:56):
take anything for granted. Respect ninety That's what I got
from him. He's the and I don't know, I don't
know what his career is gonna end up a couple years
and now maybe going to hit the skids again, who knows.
But I just liked what I saw a lot. I'd
like to see more of that.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah, he's a guy, Alex Kora says. He's he's a
leader on that team, and he will be the foundation
piece for the next Boston Red Sox championship team. That's
how highly they think of him. Good But you're right, Joe,
they gave me the game. Remember this about the All
Star Game. I know we live in a time where
people love to complain, right, and the complaints seem to
get the most attention. So everybody wants to talk about

(10:30):
what's wrong with the All Star Game or what the
ratings were, this, that and the other thing. The All
Star Game is still by far the best of any
sports all star game, and the way it is competed
right is baseball game looks the same in the All
Star Game as it does in the regular season. There
were twenty two pitches in that game. Thrown at one
hundred miles per hour or more twenty two pitches by

(10:53):
four different pitchers going one hundred plus. There were fifty
two percent fastballs in the game. Actually a little bit
less than about fifty one percent fastballs in the game
is about forty seven. So it's not like these guys
were just laying the ball over the plate. There was
competition going on there. That's what I love about the
All Star Game. And you know, guys don't mail it in,

(11:15):
and especially when it comes to pitching. These guys, you know,
they have a lot of pride when they get on
the mound. And you mentioned show Hey Otani. I can
tell you this just in a couple of days in Arlington.
There other players are in awe of Show Hey Otani.
They want to be around him, They want to see
him up close. What his work habits are is preparation,
watch him hitting the cage. There's just a certain way

(11:37):
they look at Showhy that they don't look at anybody
else in the game. And he showed once again, Joe,
I mean, you put him in the All Star Game
and he steps up to the plate. Tanner Hawk is
on the mound. He has thrown since June of last year,
four hundred and twenty five consecutive splitters to lefties without
giving up a home run. What happens the one time

(11:59):
he tries to throw a split to show hey, he
absolutely hits it halfway to the moon. But so I
you know, listen, I don't think jaws were literally dropping,
But players as much as fans aren't off show. Hey O,
Tony proved it once again.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
Agreed. I mean you uh, you know, pre game, during
the game, when I was with the Angels and seeing
it close up, you could see the respect for him
from others, and nobody could believe that he was doing
what he was doing. And right now he's not even pitching. Uh.
Next year when they when he gets back on the
Mount two, that's going to be even the awe factor
is going to be risen elevated again because the fact

(12:38):
that he was hurt twice now twice coming back from operation.
He's going to go back. He's going to be throwing
one hundred miles an hour with that nasty slider and
his shoot though the split forkball, You're going to see
it again. So these guys, everybody's gonna be baffled once again,
and I've noticed, I guess in this last draft it
appears that others are looking for the two way player.
All of a sudden, guys have come out kind of

(12:59):
saying that they are there's nothing like this. There's not
gonna be anything like this. I don't know another ten
or twenty years. Maybe it is a generational kind of
a situation. So yes, everybody is in awe of him
and getting to know him. Is an easy guy to like,
easy guy to communicate with. I did. I like him

(13:21):
a lot. I'm very happy for a success. The next point,
regarding the game itself, I still like the idea of
making the game count. I think that's the one thing
that being managed to all Star games. I managed in
zero nine and then seventeen zero nine counted seventeen did not,
and also as a bench coach in zero three for

(13:43):
the one in Chicago, there's something about it. It elevates
the day in a sense. It's it's just whenever you
as a major league players, as professional athletes, whenever you participate,
you want to have something matter. Something's got to be
on the line. To really I think to extrapolate the
best out of everybody, I would really be interested to

(14:06):
see that the game counted again. I was good with
the fact that home field advantage was determined. I'm good
with all that. I like when things matter. I like
when things count. So if there's any reason, any negative
component of the game that people want to pound on
other than the uniforms, to me, it's almost like the

(14:27):
pitch clock that was brought into play, and also the
catchers of the pitchers signs with the little tapping thing
on the shin guards. Those are difference makers. If you
want to make this game really all that can be,
I would make it count again. I liked that, and
I'd like to see that come back.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
You mentioned Paul Skins. He was a big story coming
into the game, and you're right, it's not like he
blew people away, but man, he was impressive. I mean,
you can see he knows how to pitch. It's interesting.
Wan Soto said before the game that he was going
to make sure that Aaron Judge got in it bat
against Paul's You know why Bruce Bochi wanted to have

(15:07):
no offense to Stephen Kwan, but build a lineup that
didn't have Aaron Judge among the top three. That was ridiculous.
Ridiculous because one matchup everybody wanted to see was Skeens
against Judge. And if it went one, two three in
the first inning, Skeens is not coming out to start
the second inning. It was one and done for him.
So it's funny Major League Baseball wanted Skeens to start.

(15:28):
Tory Levelo didn't have to be told. He knew it
was the right thing to do. But Major League Baseball
never thought to tell Bruce Bochi, hey, make sure Judge
hits against Skeens. And when they saw Bochi's lineup, they went, whoops,
what's going on here? But thanks to Wan Soto, who
said before the game he was going to get on base,
and he did a typical you know, three to two

(15:50):
count stays off some nazy splinkers from Skeens at the
bottom of the zone, and he got judged to the
platelist It only took one pitch, but at least we
got to see Skeen's thrown to Judge. And they'll probably
see one another again in September. Joe, I mean, hopefully
the Pirates don't shut down Paul Skeans and they're playing
for you know, some meaningful games in September when they

(16:10):
see the Yankees, and to see that one for real
will really be a treat. But I was impressed with Skins.
I talked with Brent Strom, that a long time Diamondbacks
pitching coach, about his impressions because he worked with Skins
before the game and his bullpen warm up. He just
loves the guy. He said. Preparation was off the charts.
He gave him scouting reports on the top six hitters
in the lineup, and he said Skeins was all in

(16:32):
wanted to know everything about everybody mechanics wise. I was
a little bit concerned and have been about the way
he pulls that elbow up higher than his shoulder, But
you know, Brent Strom told me that it's not as
bad as Steven Strasburg. That he winds up being on time,
which is important. That ball is loaded above his head
when the front foot land, so it looks a little awkward,

(16:53):
but it looks like it's a well timed delivery. This
guy certainly knows how to pitch. Besides throwing at one
hundred and one.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
Well, yeah, I thought he was in control of his emotions,
which I was impressed with. Definitely had to be a
racing heartbeat has to beat, no question. However, he's able
to breathe well into the point where he was. His
command was good. Maybe he didn't have everything that he
would normally have once he really settled in, But I liked.
I love that part of it. That's that's a lot.

(17:21):
He was in a minor leagues when the season began,
he was in college last year, and all of a
sudden he's starting the All Star Game and being that
good and earning that in a very short period of time.
So there's a lot of stuff going on there, and
that is that is highly impressive. Regarding his delivery. You know, Strasbourg,
to me, when that guy was well, was as good

(17:42):
as anybody I've seen Strasbourg healthy. Wow, he pitched the game,
a playoff game and Wrigley one time. That got them
back to We finally eventually beat them in Washington in
a mist in a rain. It was awful and we
had no chance. We had no chance against this fella. Now,
But then to compare him the Strats who was constantly injured,

(18:05):
is a little bit concerning. I listen, I don't not
wish in anything this guy here could be one of
the best ever if he could stay healthy and pitch
for a long period of time. It's just a delivery
that you don't normally see. There's so much happening behind him,
and he's got that other pitch that really I think

(18:26):
I'd have to see more information regarding it, but it's
got to put some stress on that elbow area with
whatever the splink or whatever he wants to call it,
there's got to be got to be and he I
don't even know how many innings he threw tops at LSU,
but he's going to be challenged this year, like you said,
and in the futures, and this is one of those things, man,
I don't know. I don't have any answers for this one.

(18:47):
I'd have to be on the field with him. I'd
have to see him, I'd have to talk to him.
But this is one thing you they're going to be.
They're going to be very conservative with I believe looking
into the future the Pirates that is. Yeah, I'd love
to be able to see him play later in this year,
and who knows what their fate's going to be regarding
playoffs this season and regards to him having to pitch

(19:10):
in the playoff game. Possibly, but man, there's a lot
to love, but there's a little bit of concern for
me just watching how the arm works.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah, and you're not alone, Joe. You know this. Major
League baseball teams have not figured this out. They still
do not know how to treat pictures, especially young pitchers
who throw hard they think they do, and they're using
pitch counts and innings limits and what have you and
applying it as a one size fits all formula. So

(19:38):
they're airing on the side of being overly protective and
it's not working, and pictures are breaking down more than
ever before. Now maybe the rate would be even worse
if they weren't being so conservative, But just they don't know.
No one truly knows how to keep these guys healthy.
So you just hope, you cross your fingers, you've got
some good DNA and you can be one of these outliers.

(20:00):
And we hope he is that takes the ball thirty
times a year, year after a year after year.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
Agreed, you know, all the things, all these superficial again,
wherever they came from, reasonings, why you don't throw a
guy more often or formit him to throw more Just
why not stretch him out in the minor leagues, why
not put more of a load on them down there
to to strengthen them that they figure it out so

(20:25):
by the time they get up there, they're used to
certain things. I mean, it's and and again we've talked
about this, We've had it on the show several times,
the chasing of velocity and spin and all that kind
of stuff. And now you talked about earlier this year
the number of breaking balls that the Red Sox are
throwing and all all this different stuff. It's just a
it's just a flavor of the day kind of thing,

(20:46):
and the flavor of the day is always going to
win out, especially the way things are run right now.
It's always been a copycat industry, but now more than ever.
So I'm here to tell you I I agree with
kind of what you're just saying there, totally what you're
saying that to to use these rules that he made
up and then they all adopted them, and that's what
it is. And I know when I did it, we

(21:09):
had we had pitch count rules even in the minors,
but it wasn't as conservative as they are now. I mean,
I easily threw guys one hundred pitches in rookie ball
and a ball and it's a double a ball and
never got hammered on it. And I didn't see a
whole lot of injuries because of it. I had one
kid picture by the name of Doug Banning, who had

(21:31):
a burst of problem in the back of his shoulder,
and I was told to throw him a lot, like
more than normal in order to really test this thing
or have it eventually pop or whatever it's supposed to
do so that they could fix it. That was like
in nineteen eighty five or eighty sixties from Colorado heart
thrower at that time, like ninety three to ninety four
hard thrower. But I don't know, man, it's all it

(21:52):
should be more individualized. Every guy is different. You have
to treat everyone differently based on their body strength, their strength,
their arm strength, their work ethic, their work habits. How
there aren't just watch them, watch them, but please don't
put a blanket over everybody, and said they all have
to be the same.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
Well, that's a wrap on the All Star Game. After
we take this quick break, we're gonna look ahead now
because the trade deadline is coming up. And I got
a feeling it's going to be very active. We'll talk
about some of the biggest names that might be out
there right after this. So for the last two months, Joe,

(22:39):
people have been writing about trade deadline and possible deals.
Remember they were writing about the Astros dumping players, the
Mets dumping players. I mean, if you're a baseball fan,
understand this, Folks. Front officers do not get deep into
trade discussions until they're on the other side of the draft.
They really don't. So a lot of that is just

(22:59):
noise and ridiculous speculation by people looking for clicks. So
now we're finally on the other side of the draft,
and now things are heating up, and now you will
see some moves in these next couple of weeks. And
I think, Joe, we're at a stage in the game today,
and I know that right now you've got twenty one
to the thirty teams that are within five games of
a playoff spot. So it looks like it's a seller's market,

(23:24):
and maybe there won't be a lot of activity because
there are so many teams still in it. But I
disagree with that kind of thinking because I think in
today's game, Joe, there's pressure on teams to do something
at the deadline, and you look at the last few years,
just about any contender has to make a move. And
I'm not talking about a blockbuster move. But remember you
can't make those deals in August the way you could

(23:46):
three four years ago. This is when the door closes,
so you'll actually have to build in depth as well
as need because you're not going to be able to
find something later on. So with that in mind, I'm
looking Joe at the trade market here and I think
the biggest player, the one who can most impact the
trade deadline, is Tarek Scooble of the Detroit Tigers. Now

(24:08):
you're saying, well, why would the Tigers trade this guy? Right, Well, listen,
the Tigers are not to me. They're not a playoff
team this year. I'm not sure they're a playoff team
next year. And the third year that's schoolbles last year
with the Tigers, so he's a free agent. After that,
you're essentially holding on to him for a window, a
one year playoff window. The third year, and I'm not
saying you want to trade him because I love what

(24:29):
the Tigers are doing with pitching in their system. They
have a really good core there, they're woefully short offensively
of bets. And again I'm not saying you want to
trade him, but you certainly do listen. And you've got
the Los Angeles Dodgers and Baltimore Orioles that he is
their number one target, and they have farm systems right
now with major League ready young players who are plug

(24:52):
and play in your lineup right now. I'm talking middle
of the order hitters. I think, Joe, if you Detroit,
you at least have to listen. And again, you don't
want to move Trek Scooble, because the minute you trade him,
you want to find another Trek Schoolble. But I think
the price could be so high in this market. I
think Detroit has to listen, and I think there's less

(25:13):
than a fifty percent chance he is traded. But I'm
telling you that Dodgers and Orioles both see this guy
as a World Series difference maker that I think it's
possible it could happen.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
I saw him in person. He is that good. He's
one of my favorite pitchers in all of baseball. Your explanation,
the way you presented it makes a lot of sense
regarding the Tigers of this year. What's going to happen
next year. And then here he comes in his walk.
He's coming up right after that, So all that does
make sense, And then it also makes them why would

(25:44):
you ever want to trade a kid like this? That's
going to have to rely on a lot of internal discussions. Obviously,
I don't watch them enough to know how good or
bad their offense is and what their young guys look like.
I guess some of the younger drafts in the last
couple years that were supposed to be very offensive turned
out not to be. But again I haven't watched it,

(26:06):
I really, I mean, regardless of what I reader here,
I got to put my eyeballs on it to try
to understand. You know, how much I agree with the
agree with this, or how much I disagree with this.
So I don't know that. But your explanation is a
good one. And then your other point, and it's a
great one. My favorite, one of my favorite scouts of
all time. I shouldn't say because I had a lot

(26:27):
of two or three or five of them, but Geene
Thompson a great scout for the San Francisco Giant Chicago Cubs.
Gino pitched for the Cubs back in the thirties, I believe.
But anytime Gino would walk into signing, Tom Raducci would
be in his house and you'd be there with all
the parents, grandparents, girlfriends, everybody's in there. Everybody's so happy.

(26:47):
Gino brings the contract in the kids signs he's gonna
be a professional baseball player. So wonderful evening. And as
Jane was walking out the door, he get the kid
aside and say, now, remember one thing. When I leave
here tonight, I'm going to go out there and look
for somebody better than you. I always thought that was
the greatest line. They My god, I wish I was
smart enough to do something like that. So that's what

(27:09):
it's always about. You're always looking for somebody better than
and that's how you try to improve what you're doing.
Guy like Schooble, though, Man, I'm telling you what, You're
gonna have to go a long way and search very
deeply because that's left handed and that is I mean
right down to his name and is and his themeanor
and his mound presence and stuff and everything about this kid.

(27:32):
I absolutely love it.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah, And again there's a lot of pressure on the Dodgers,
who are very short of pitching, and they're not sure
about some of the health issues they have there and
the Orioles. To me, you know, they're they're so backed
up with position players, Joe, they can afford to make
a deal and it'll hurt He'll get me wrong, but
it won't hurt their major league chances of winning the
World Series this year with schoolble actually the next couple

(27:55):
of years. So the other starting pitcher is interesting to
me is Garrett Crochet. You saw him pitching the All
Star Game. What a terrific arm this kid has. I mean,
first year starting just he leaves major leagues in strikeout rate.
He's the kind of picture you know this, Joe. In
the postseason. That's what teams want, right, You want a
starting pitcher can go six innings and miss bats and

(28:18):
against good lineups. He's that kind of pitcher. The only issue,
Joe is that he is a converted reliever. He's already
passed his career high in innings. A team that trades
for him is going to have to be careful with
how they use him in the next couple of months.
He does have an injury history with the arm. He's
got a little funkiness to his delivery. He's being on
the market. He's being put on the market by the

(28:39):
White Sox as a true number one, which he should
because that's what his numbers to this point of the
season look. But I'm not sure if I trade for him, Joe,
I can value him as a true number one because
I'm going to have to manage his innings for the
rest of the season. And you know, your team that
wants to win the World Series, you need a seven
month pitcher at that point. So I think it's going
to be hard to have a deal come to fruition

(29:00):
because a team that wants to trade for him will
value him less than what the White Sox are valuing him.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
As it sounds to me, You're right, I agree with
all that. It sounds to me like you're going to
be training for a relief picture for the rest of
this year and then really attempt to stretch him out
again next year, if that's something you is amenable to you.
A team that's really maybe looking more into the pin
as opposed to the starting rotation, which I don't even
know who that is, but I'm betting by the end

(29:26):
of the season to really garner as much utility out
of the spot you possibly can. You've got to have
to put him back in the pen and then, like
I said, continue with the process of stretching him out
again next year. It's a big risk. It is a
big risk because having been a relief pitcher, little funkiness
and going out there and throwing way more innings than
you have and any time in the past, that would

(29:47):
be something that would be concerning to me. And I'm
very I'm not very conservative or concerned about always worried
about hurting guys, although I should even take that back.
I mean, one of my biggest concerns as a manager
was hurting my relief pictures by not over using these
guys and making sure that they were okay, and always
always about the relief pitcher. But if this trade were

(30:08):
to occur with him, I would think the team that
wants him or is going to go out maybe give
up something for him, would have a short term interested
him in a bullpen and a long term interest in
him as a starter might be the best way to
look at it.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
After that, I think your next best starting pitching options
Eric Fetti the White Sox. He's had a really nice year.
Jack Flaherty the Tigers, and his stuff is back, you know,
probably one level down from that, but possible postseason starters.
So the starting pitchers, listen, look around baseball. You don't
need me to tell you that people are looking for
starting good teams are looking for starting pitching. Everybody other

(30:44):
than the Phillies. So I think those guys will get traded.
Let me ask you about a team that's interesting, Joe,
and you know them well, the Tampa Bay Rays. You
know they're on the fringes of the race. I mean,
this is the time of year where you have to
be really honest with yourself if you're a president of
baseball operations, whether you're an actual playoff team, are you
a team that can actually win, say three series, and

(31:06):
not just show up and be out in the first round.
It takes a lot of honesty this time of year,
and maybe the next top couple of weeks tell you
for sure which way to go. Team gets hot, team
gets cold, That can really change direction. But the Rays,
to me, have guys like Yanni Diaz, Randy Rosen, Reina,
Zach Efflin. They've they've got some pieces Pete Fairbanks that
they can move. But let me ask you this about

(31:29):
the raise, Joe, because I think there's a lot of
exterior pressure, if you will, on teams when they make
deals and fan bases want you to get something done.
I get the sense that in Tampa there's not that
same kind of pressure because there is so much turn
with that team. If they pivoted and wanted to move players,
I'm not sure there's public pressure on that front office

(31:50):
to avoid doing something like that. So I think they
have a certain freedom that a lot of teams don't
have when it comes to making deals, and I think
the Rays could be a sneaky player at this deadline.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
That's well described. The pressure may come a little bit
from the local radio stations. They've always had a very
active talk radio down there. Newspaper wise, Mark Talkin, one
of the best writers in the country. He'll just report
it properly as is, without any historyonics regarding the explanation.
He's so good at like he's a real baseball guy,

(32:22):
and he'll report it in a manner that im is
straight up kind of a thing, and you're gonna get
like this. There's there's this little group of real sincere
raised lovers fans that will have show some concern or
vitriol if something like that were to happen, Like I said,
you'll get the Collins on talk radio. However, it doesn't

(32:43):
move any kind of a needle. It doesn't cause the
front officer ownership there to really be concerned or try
to ameliorate these these concerns. Of these of these the
fan base kind of like a vocal minority is what
it is. So yeah, if I'm Eric, I don't think
any of that matters to them or Maddie Silverman. So
they're gonna just what they think is the right thing

(33:04):
to do. And you're right, I've already written this down earlier.
What is your objective here? Is it just to get
to the playoffs and knowing that it's not going to
last very long, or you really think you could do
something a move or two is going to get you
to the World Series. Completely different conceptually, So yeah, the
Rays do work in a bubble. They've earned it. I
mean they've created this method this way. They get criticized

(33:26):
a lot of times that come out winning. They take
players that nobody's ever heard of and make them good.
They take philosophies, theories, methods, and they do them first
and everybody else wants to copy them, So this another thing.
They're kind of exonerated from any kind of criticism with this. Again,
maybe a vocal minority. Otherwise, it's not going to move

(33:48):
the needle at all if they choose to do something.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
Let's talk about the Texas Rangers, defending World Series champions.
They've had a tough go of it. I think they're
in it, Joe, and I know the way Chris Young
runs things in Texas. They're not folding, and they've got
pitchers coming back. Tyler Maalley is probably the first one back.
Jacob de Grom, by the way, was that Globelife field

(34:12):
the day of the All Star Game with a bullpen session.
He's been throwing ninety eight with his usual great change up,
and he spun the ball for the first time on
Tuesday at his outing there. He's not that far off.
He's probably mid to late August coming back. Cody Bradford
is on his way back as well. The third baseman,

(34:34):
Josh Young, is coming back. I just gave you four names,
So they're adding players. It may not be trades. They
may make a trade as well. I don't know, but
be careful You're not right off that team quite yet, Joe.
In terms of the Texas Rangers and getting back into
this thing.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
If those are great acquisitions, right, if they could go
on and get those players at the deadline, they do
it in a heartbeat. I agree with you. I mean,
they've hung in there pretty well. They've had some bad streaks,
and again I haven't watched them as closely enough to know,
but I do know their pitch has taken a big
hit and some of the offensive performances have not been there.
But there's this backtracking even on that, the hangover of

(35:13):
this whole thing. Believe me, I've experienced it a couple times,
and it's true. It's really hard to repeat in Major
League Baseball based on the length of spring training, the
length of the season, and the length of the playoffs. Man,
you got to be good a lot and so there's
a lot of there's a lot of that to be
concerned with. The other part, with theve they've had a
lot of guys You've mentioned the names that have been

(35:35):
injured or coming back. They're fresh. These guys are going
to be fresh and eager and they want to get
going and they're going to give this team a big
boost and they could really catch Lighting in a bottle
because that division is definitely not out of their reach
by any means. So yes, I don't know what they
would really want to acquire based like I said on
guys getting well, I don't even know that they have to.

(35:57):
They the Grom's back, that their basement's back, and all
the pitchers that they do have a surezers come back.
I was just told Pat and I would just get
these guys well, and I really believe that they're going
to make a strong push in August and September, and
I wouldn't be surprised. I would not be surprised if
they overtake that division by the end of the year.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
That's a great point, especially with Bruce Bochi as a manager.
And I didn't mention Evan Carter and they thought maybe
he would be lost for the year, but he's on
his way back. Now, let's talk finally about the New
York Yankees, Joe, because they're in a tough spot. I mean,
they clearly have missed the big bat of John Carlos Stanton.
He's going to be out for a little while longer
before he gets back, but he gives that line up

(36:41):
the depth that absolutely has been missing here for the
last couple of months.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
The only problem is it's hard to rely on John
Carlos Stanton staying healthy. So what do you do? I
think this team needs a bat, Joe? I do? I
think they keep giving at bats to Labor Torres and
DJ Lemayhew. And you like both players, but based on
what you're seeing here, I think they're getting too many
at bats. Mayhew is a guy who looks like the

(37:06):
bat just has not got the same pop to it,
the same snap to it. And you look at you
know he doesn't hit the ball in the opposite field
the way he used to. It's a career low percentage.
He's a guy. To me, Joe, he had a very
unique way of hitting a baseball. He's been open, let
the ball travel, and he'd take those fastballs and shoot
him the other way. Well, now with the bat being

(37:29):
a little bit slower, he's trying to cheat to get
to pitches, and that's not the way he hits. Now,
what's happening is by trying to cheat to the ball,
he's rolling over a ton. He's got a really high
ground ball rate and he's pulling the ball on the
ground to the pole side more than he ever has
in his career. He just looks lost to me, like
he's not the same hitter. I don't know that you

(37:51):
can count on that now going to turn around. And
the same goes for labor Torres. Whether it's because it's
his walkier or not. He's never been a great breaking
ball hitter, but he's especially vulnerable this year. So I
don't know what options they have Joe, but I think
that the back half of their lineup is just not
good enough, and I think prioritizing that and they always

(38:12):
look at Bullpen, I get that, but I think they
need some more depth in the lineup.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yeah, you know, like you just said, I mean, Stanton
can provide protection when he's there, and then even when
he's there, it's a very streaky kind of an offensive player.
He'll show you before the series whether he's going to
chase or not. You'll know exactly where to go and
if he's hot, you know, or not to go because
he's just not going to miss it. But I do
believe in length in the lineup. I do believe in

(38:39):
presence when certain people are involved or present in the lineup.
It definitely presents differently to the other team. Prior to
the game, in the lineup sent over, and during the game,
the pitcher's just looking at it, the catchers looking on
deck circle who's in the hole. It just presents differently,
and it creates a different attitude or a plan of
attack from that particular team. I would not be surprised

(39:02):
if Cash goes after another bat. I don't know exactly,
like you said, who that might be right now, but
I could see that I don't even know where Rizz
is at right now, though riz was not having that
kind of year either. The kid Rice is doing a really,
really nice job for them, So it's one of those
things that's an internal question. They know what these guys

(39:22):
look like in person, they know how well or unwell
they are. The thing about le Mayhew, I'm such a
fan of his, always have been. You're right. Whenever I
get a chance to see them on the tube, I'm
surprised and all the attempts on pulling the ball, like
you're saying, cheating getting out in front the rollover. This
guy was like a bigger version of Derek Jeter. For me,

(39:44):
for years, everything was inside the ball he would fight
stuff off, there was too muches above his thumbs and
still hit the ball to right field. Well, I'm sure
that's been brought up with him. I'm sure the inside
out approach has been brought up to him. Again. I
don't even know if he's thinking more power internally, whatever,
But this guy's a line drive hit or he's a
gap kind of Wright Centers is his favorite place. That's

(40:07):
where he goes home to, So I don't know. And
he's been injured a little bit. What is his injuries like,
I'm just curious because I've been such a big fan
of his for such a long period of time. Gliber,
I know, Gliber. I'm surprised a little bit there because
as a youngster man, this kid was so exciting to me.
I know he's had a couple of good years with
the Yankees, but I don't know where his head's at
right now, and i'd have to again be able to

(40:29):
have that conversation ascertain what I think or don't think
about that. But yeah, I could see Cash wanting to
go out and getting you back, because even when stant
comes back, you can't be assured that he's going to
be there for the rest of the year.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Well, we'll see. I do think it'll be active, maybe
not blockbusters, But again, I think the biggest name that
could influence who wins the World Series this year is
Trek Skooble. He might not get traded. I'm not predicting
he will be, but if he's in play at all,
that should be very interesting to see if the Dodgers
and Orioles especially, he can put together a package. And
we're going to take a quick break when we come back,

(41:04):
talk about one of Joe's the favorite people in baseball,
at least the scouts, and we lost a good one.
We'll talk about that right after this. Joe, I'm wondering

(41:27):
if during the course of your travels you came across
a new Jerry Walker, longtime former pitcher, general manager, pitching coach,
scout just about did everything in the game, who passed
away this week Jerry Walker.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
I honestly did not know Jerry. I did not I'm aware,
but I did not know Jerry in a person, live room.
We really well, I don't even know. I don't remember
ever crossing passed with him. To be honest with.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
You, Well, it's interesting because he passed away during the
All Star break, and he is still to this day
the youngest pitcher ever to start the All Star Game.
Eighteen fifty nine and that's when they had two All
Star Games. This was the second one in August at
the Coliseum in Los Angeles. Jerry Walker was signed at
a high school. Remember the Bonus Babies.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
Joe, Oh yeah, absolutely, Yes.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
He's a high school pitcher in Ada, Oklahoma who went
fifty two to one in high school, and the Orioles
gave him sixty thousand dollars to sign. Back in those days,
you would have to carry him on your major league
roster immediately if you went over I think it was
over four thousand dollars or something.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah. Yeah, they new a couple of guys like that. Yep.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Yeah. So Jerry Walker's in the big leagues at eighteen.
I mean, it's crazy to think about that rule, and
I'm sure it was done to try to limit teams
from getting in bidding wars on players. But he pitched
in the big leagues that year thirteen games. He came
back the next year and fifty eight back to the minors,

(42:58):
but he also pitched in the major leagues that year,
came back up to the big leagues anyway. At nineteen,
his first full season as a professional, he threw two
hundred and ten innings. He had through fourteen complete games.
So I know a lot of us sit here and
we say, why didn't they like guys pitch anymore? We
forget all these stories. By the way, Jerry Walker, he

(43:19):
was done as a professional at the age of twenty eight.
You know, we just lose track of the guys who
were just blown out of the system. And back then,
you know, there weren't surgeries to recover if you got hurt.
But with no limits on pitchers, I mean, there's a
lot of room between the limits today and having no
limits back in nineteen fifty eight. But this happened a lot.

(43:40):
You just you got an eighteen year old kid with
a good arm. He pitched, He pitched, he pitched. You know,
he had fourteen complete games out of twenty six starts
that year as a nineteen year old in the minor
leagues and the major leagues.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
I remember, like you're talking about limits, and I kind
of alluded to that earlier. I managed in Idaho Falls
in nineteen eighty one, rookie ball in nineteen eighty two,
and three in Salem, Moregon Rookie Ball, eighty four in Peoria, Illinois,
and eighty five eighty six in Midland, Texas Minor League
pitching director's coaches where it was warren't Spawn my first
year Spawn he was my guy, and then had Marcel

(44:15):
Latchman after that, and latch went to the big leads,
and I was junior Coleman, Joe Coleman. None of them
really had any hard and fast rules regarding what you
cannot do or innings or numbers of pitches, And the
number of pitches was a bigger issue than innings. Pitch
back then how many pitches a guy actually threw. If
you remember then, the next day starting pitcher always charted

(44:37):
the previous day's game. And that's where we got our
information from. Because none of this stuff was calculated computer
wise and presented to the entire organization. It was presented
from them by the managers to the whole organization that
night through a phone call or a fax with the
game sheets sent back into the main office. With all
this information on that, you accumulated yourself. So, like I

(45:00):
said in the book, we have I guess you said
Bobby Kipper had threw one hundred and forty pitches one
night in rookie ball. Bobby, left handed pitcher from Chicago,
pitch in the big leagues. I remember Kirk mccasko in
a winning effort over the Medford As over one hundred
pitches in a playoff game in or Bonto, Luga the
very next night in Salem, Morgan versus Medford. That was

(45:21):
never the issue, and we relied so much. I related
so much on the expertise and knowledge of Spawnie or
Marcel or Junior Coleman to set the tone. They're the
guys that set the tone. It was not dictated in
a front office sense. There was never any kind of
by words interference. But everybody was permitted to do their jobs.

(45:43):
And you were hired because you, whoever was doing the hiring,
like your track record from where you had been before,
talked to certain people, saw the pictures that you developed
as an example, et cetera. And so these guys were
giving autonomy to create this and then to go out
and hire your pitching coaches, which I still believe is
the right way to do it. I believe a major
league pitching coach should hire a bullpen coach. Because they

(46:05):
work so often together things to that nature. So I'm
part of that. Of course, guys got hurt, but I'm
I mean for me, like guys got hurt a little bit,
I thought with one couple of years with me because
they were all the young guys were throwing splitters for
fork balls, which I didn't like, but I had I
was not in charge of that. I didn't like the

(46:26):
idea of them throwing that as much and not developed
from their fastball first as an example, but we emphasized,
you know, throwing the first base. You had to be
able to throw a fastball in the strikes and where
you wanted to often enough to be able to get promoted.
Command control and command was a big part of this.
These are the kind of edicts that came down from

(46:47):
the pitching coaches. But it was never from anybody in
the office your farm director of course, not you're Scotting director,
your general manager. None of it was came from them directly. Now,
having said all that, one of the things I've always
wanted when as a young manager coming up was I
wanted more uniform approach annually, like almost like an angel's

(47:09):
way of doing things, because oftentimes guys left, guys got fired,
somebody knew would come in and we'd have to retrain
my entire group to cut off in relays, doing differently,
whatever philosophies would change. So that's the part I didn't
like that. We didn't have an annual method or way
of doing things that I thought kind of prevented some development,

(47:29):
whereas like the Dodgers did, the Cardinals did, the branch
Rickey Pirates did have a way of doing things. They
ran into a lot of their former coaches and managers
and we would talk and they would talk about that often,
and that's where those groups had the edge. So this
is what I was dealt with, confronted with. There was
some good points about it. There was some things that

(47:50):
weren't as good. But when it came to pitching itself
and how pitchers were taught and permitted, how long to
go in a game, that was pretty much at the
discretion and at the edict of the league coordinator, pitching
coordinator in conjunction with the major league pitching coach.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
Yeah, you just reminded me of a big part of
the book I wrote, The Cubs Way. When theo Epstein
got to Chicago, he wanted to put together the Cub's
way because nothing was written down. There wasn't a methodology,
if you will, of how to teach what strategies. It's
something up and down the system, as you said, Joe,
and he wanted a document so that everybody was on

(48:31):
the page, same page. And I remember him telling me
specifically this story about as as detailed as what foot
you should use to step on a base while rounding
a base. Now he later admitted it really didn't matter.
It's more about where you hit the bass. Doesn't matter
whether it's left foot or right foot. But those are
the things they debated with all the baseball people, the scouts,

(48:55):
the coaches, the instructors, and you got them all together
and got tremendous input. But getting that down that this
is the way we want to play baseball. You're right,
it's super important. And the Orioles were known that we're
known for that for years and years, right the Oriole Way.
So Jerry Walker was pitching for the Orioles, and that
Paul Richards was the manager back then. He had a

(49:15):
lot to do with those baby birds. The foundation of
the winning championship Baltimore teams. A lot of the young
players he brought in there as manager of the Orioles.
But it's interesting Joe getting back to that fifty nine
All Star game. Jerry Walker. Then he's twenty years old.
He's just a kid. He finds out between games of
a Sunday double header, this is how far we're going

(49:36):
back Sunday doubleheaders, that he's on the All Star team.
Their catcher, Orioles catcher Gus Treando's is hurt, needs to
be replaced. So this is the Sunday before the All
Star Game. He finds out that he's an All Star.
Not only that. Casey stangle the manager, then decides you're
my starting pitcher. Twenty years old. He looks at the
National league lineup. You've got Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Ernie Banks,

(49:59):
stam usual Eddie Matthews. He actually pitched well, and he
actually threw get this three innings in the game. And
Casey Stangele used three of the Orioles pitchers in that game,
and he did not use his own pitcher, Ryan durn
the relief pitcher. Paul Richards was not happy. He called

(50:20):
it a miserable active malfeasance. First of all, you gotta
love it a miserable active malfeasans. If you're gonna go off,
go off in a literal way like that. I mean,
that's just perfect. But that was Casey Stangele as well Paul.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Richards, like you're relating right there, very very bright man.
With the Rays, we had a group of outfielders I
can't remember the exact year, but didn't throw all that well.
So Zim brought it to my attention, he said, when
he back in day, Paul Richards insisted that every ball
hit to the outfield, the outfielders throw the ball the

(50:57):
second base, period, keep the double plaane order. Throw the
ball to second base, never throw the ball home, never
keep the double play in order keep that runner from advancing.
So that year, with the race, that was our thing.
We only threw the ball the second base because the
arms weren't good enough wow to throw the ball home.
But that was Zim relating to me a Paul Richard

(51:19):
is and I've heard other things about Paul Richards. The
guy was kind of like ahead of his time, kind
of a dude. But that's an example of a Paul
Richards thought. That made all the sense in the world
to me, because I think it was like Desmond Jennings.
I can't remember who's the other two guys, maybe Carl

(51:39):
and somebody else that just because BJ couldn't have been
BJA because BJ had a great arm, but we had
three guys out there that just didn't throw that well,
so we just threw the ball the second base.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
Mister Paul Richards, that's great. I know he had a
huge influence on the young Tony LaRussa as well did
Paul Richards. So Jerry Walker later became a manager in
the Yankees minor league system, was also, as I mentioned,
a scout, came general manager of the Tigers. They went
to the front office of the Cardinals, where he worked

(52:09):
under Walt Jockety, and then Walt Jackety hired him in
Cincinnati as well with the Reds. So god, I missed
a lifetime dedicated to the game of baseball in so
many different ways. And I'll have to tell you, Joe,
those are the kind of people that the game really
still needs to value very highly when you think about
the breath and width of experience for someone like that

(52:29):
who played the game, was a coach, was a front
office executive, basically touched every side of the game. And
I always say there's a big difference between knowledge and wisdom,
and I think sometimes this game doesn't really acknowledge enough
the power of the wisdom. We know all about the knowledge,
and there's plenty of that, but having people around who

(52:50):
can give you that balance as well is super important.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
Who's passing the game along, who's passing it along. I
am so grateful that I spent as much time as
I did in the minor leagues, and I spend as
much i'm in the minor leagues with the different mentors
that I had, and I consider and I could just
run through the eighties a decade of the eighties. I
consider myself a millennial coach and manager because that's when

(53:16):
I really learned baseball was in the eighties, because of
Marcel Latchman and Bob Clear and Johnny McNamara and Larry
Hymes and Joe Coleman and Rick Down and Cookie Rojas
and these and weren't spawn. These are my guys, These
are my mentors. This is what I learned from. This
is who I learned from. The young managers today and
the minor leagues cannot even for a second list anything

(53:39):
like that were little tidbits, throw the ball at second
base whatever, Bob Claar. You don't clone, you know you're
cloning these guys. Make sure you treat them all individually,
Bob Aloo all Joe Coleman. When you don't have your
best stuff, don't try to manufacture it. Just pitch with

(54:01):
what you have, Joe Coleman. These are the kind of
little thoughts that I had, and I've utilized with different
players throughout my time that I picked up from these
guys in the eighties. Primarily the guys today, guys being
young managers and coaches in the minor leagues do not
have the benefit of all of these people running around
and giving them this kind of advice, which turns into wisdom,

(54:25):
begins as knowledge turns into wisdom, and then eventually you
get somebody that could actually think on their feet. You know,
situation occurs and you can sit in your mind's eye
and it happened before, How did I react to it?
How does it appear right now? And this all happens
in a nanosecond based on your past. That's where I
think we're really missing the boat right now by not

(54:46):
getting enough former players, managers' coaches, involved in the minor
league system and letting this minor league system nurture and
really turn out baseball players. God, and not only that's
just the volume of them. I mean the fact that
we've devolved in regards to number of minor league team cities,
fan bases, whatever, that's all of that stuff makes zero

(55:08):
sense to me whatsoever. You're trying to attract new fans
of the game and keep people interested and engaged, to
actually subtract from as supposed to augment the way we
have in the past. It still is the best I'm listening.
This is not agism, and this is not something from
the past that I'm acting like a plus fifty year old.
Right now, we need all this stuff, and hopefully somebody

(55:31):
realizes that and figures it out and we start getting
people like Bo back involved, Larry Boa and people like that,
George Hendrick. These are the guys to me that young
players need to hear from.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
Well, that perfectly brings us talking here about mentors and
timeless advice to the end of this episode of the
Book of Joe where Joe takes us out with words
of wisdom. So you've always come up with something that somehow,
some way fits our topic. What do you got today, Joe?

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Yeah, I was banging on this earlier this morning, and
it's happened to me the other day. I had some
difficult travel moments, but fought through and eventually I showed
up at this event, and I felt really good that
I kept my commitment, even though it was extremely inconvenient.
But it's something I've always talked to myself about. So
sometimes the bravest and most important thing you can do

(56:22):
is just to show up. Just show up. I don't
know that people realize that sometimes if you say you're
going to be somewhere, you be somewhere. There's got to
be really extenuating circumstances to back out or say no
all of a sudden, and whereas plans have been made,
people are counting on it, et cetera. And it happens
in daily life. It happens with just our commitments on

(56:42):
a daily basis to whomever. So my motivation was from
my day the other day traveling to Dallas and back.
But sometimes the bravest and most important thing you can
do is to just show up, be there every day.
As if you're not starting in that game, you'd be
the best bench player in the world. If you're sitting

(57:02):
on the bench as a coach, and I think you
should have a higher position. And if you don't really
apply yourself mainly to the job that you do have,
you're going to suffer and the team's going to suffer
for it. So please, when you're involved in something, when
you've made a commitment, make sure that you just at
least show up. It's very important.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
I love that, Joe. But can I add two words
to that sure on time. Yes, do not tell me
that your time is more valuable than mine, because that's
what you're telling me if you're continually showing up late. Listen,
we all know things happen, and especially for those of
us who go in and out of airports. God, but

(57:41):
don't think your time is more valuable than anybody else's.
So it's a great advice. What you said, reliability is
it's a valued skill. It is be someone who's reliable.
And part of that is, as you said, showing up.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
Just show up, baby. If you said you're going to
be there, be there.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
I love it. It's fun, Joe. We'll see you next time.
In the Book of Joe.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
Nice job, Tommy, Thank you.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
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