February 11, 2025 • 44 mins
After watching the Eagles win the Super Bowl, Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci discuss the impact of coaching and teaching. Tom highlights the path of head coach Nick Sirianni and Defensive Coordinator Vic Fangio. Joe explains when he thinks the game turned and when he thought the Eagles were going to win. Turning our attention back to baseball, Tom looks at the timeline for Shohei Ohtani and when we could see him back on the pitching mound.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey thereon, Welcome Back to the Book of Joe with Me,
Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and our glue guy. Vince
actually made it down from a light poul Joe after
(00:25):
the Eagles won the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
So glad to have him back.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
I would expect nothing less than that. Congratulations to Vince,
diehard Eagles fan. I've got a lot of folks back
there that I got to say congrats to.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
But they aired Vic.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Fangio, the defensive Corny were just talking about him. He's
from Dunmore, Pennsylvania. Used to play summer ball and Dunmore
at Shouts Stadium of the Scranton Red Sox.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
And I think of anything.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I mean, of course, the Eagles played a complete game,
but their defense yesterday that was that was stellar.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
I mean, Mahomes couldn't breathe.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I could believe the looks on the Chiefs faces when
they got in real Titus.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
It's like we've talked about.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I talked about those playoff situations where you look at
the other team's face and they're defeated. They were defeated
rarely in that game. That's how tough the Eagles defense
was yesterday.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah, must have brought you back to the two thousand
and two playoffs Angels against the Yankees.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
It did, I swear to god, it did.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I sing it with Wendy, and I'm saying, look at
their faces, look at their faces.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
They were done.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
And it happens, manet, it is I old, you get
punched in the face. You got a great plan and
you get punched in the face. That's exactly what happened
to them. They're used to getting down and coming back,
but not like that. They felt that defense on them.
And I really thought Mahomes would prevail before the game began,
but I didn't anticipate that either. And like I said, Vick,
(01:45):
I'm happy for Vic. It's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, Joe, I'm glad you brought him up.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
And we need to talk more about the Super Bowl,
not just because it's an American spectacle it seems to
get bigger every year, but I think it leads us
to something we love talking about on this podcast and
including in our book especially, is the craft of teaching
and coaching, and they're really one and the same. And
to me, the Super Bowl was a testament to teaching
(02:10):
and coaching. Yes, players play, and to be a great coach,
obviously you need great players. But the stories behind these guys,
Nick Sirianni and Vic Fungio, we need to explore that,
and I think it's something that's close to us, Joe,
because Nick Siriano played three years of college football in
Division III at Mount Union. Vic Fangio did not play
(02:33):
college football, and Joe, as someone you are one of
the few people to win a World Series as a
manager who did not play Major League Baseball. I'm the
only person who has won an Emmy as an analyst
who did not play or coach professionally. So I think
we can relate, especially near and dear to our hearts
and the importance of it's not who you are, it's
(02:56):
what you do, right, what your background is. We talk
a lot here about the journey, so we are going
to talk about the journeys and the spectacular story that
need to be told.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
So how about Sirianni.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
First of all, Joe, did you know that his ancestry
is from Calabria over in Italy.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I've got that in common with him.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I did not know that, But I mean the last
name any named concludsion of Valves. We got the Italian
connection there, man, We've got some very prolific Italians in
the background of the Philadelphia Eagles victory right there, Sirianni
watch him on his silent extremely animated I know vic
Vic used to come see me and the dugout in Chicago.
Was the Bears defensive coordinator at that time, and just
(03:35):
you know, straight, I don't know, Sirianni, but from Vick's perspective,
this is one of those guys that there's no filter.
It's just this is what I'm thinking, this is who
I am, that kind of stuff, and I've always appreciated
that about him.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
But yeah, as a Novalve.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
That's good, good start. But also the backgrounds of these guys, Joe,
I think both of us can relate. You are one
of the few major league managers who won a World
Series without having played Major League Baseball, and I can relate.
I'm the only ones to win a Sports Emmy as
an analyst who is not a former player or a coach.
So we talk a lot on this podcast about journeys,
right and just incredible journeys at the two of them,
(04:11):
And obviously you're familiar with Vicks, and we'll get into
that in a minute, but let's start with Sirianni because
he did not play major college football. He played three
years at Mount Union. That's Division three. Now that's a
good team, but that's Division three. You don't see a
lot of NFL coaches coming out of D three football.
And then he started his career at Indiana University of Pennsylvania.
(04:31):
That's iup, Joe. I'm sure you've heard of it. As
a Pennsylvania guy.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
We have a western Pennsylvania. It was part of the
state college system at one time. They became universities eventually,
but it was always about teachers. Colleges all throughout Pennsylvania
is a great conceptor from coast to coast of Pennsylvania.
You got these different teacher colleges. And yes, I'm very
much I don't think it's far from slippy Rock.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Right, I think you're right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
So he gets hired his big break, I guess you
could call it the Chiefs, their quality control coach they
hired is that the head coach was Todd Haley at
the time, and he's got an incredible journey as well.
He's one of the few head coaches who never played
beyond peewee football to become an NFL coach, that's just amazing.
He played golf actually in college. So that was Nick's
(05:19):
big break. He goes to the Chargers and then he
goes to the Colts as the offensive coordinator, and he
hired by the Eagles. Jeffrey Lorie hired him as a
relative unknown, and of course Andy Reid was a relative
unknown when he was hired by the Eagles as well.
But this was really interesting too, Joe that when he
was in Kansas City, the head coach at the time
(05:39):
was Romeo Crenell. He gets fired and they hire the
Chiefs hire Andy Reid. Andy Reid was the one who
told Siriani that he was no longer working for the Chiefs,
that he was out. Nick said, it was an awesome conversation.
But how about that talk about full circle? Then you
meet the guy in the super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
That is I didn't know that all that part about
it when you're explaining this setting this whole thing up
in my first thought is because you know, how did
I get to where I am or what I've done?
And same with you, who did the evaluation to say
that I should be a coach, manager, et cetera. And
the same thing with you and your profession. So I'm
(06:19):
curious about that exactly. You don't know the answer, But
what did they see in these guys, Todd or Serrianne?
What did they see in these guys? I can understand
why Randy did what he did with Seranni when he
got there, because he wanted to bring his own staff
in regardless of how.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Good he might have thought this fellow was, he just
needed to do that.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
But I'm always curious, Like we talk about the scouting background,
player evaluation, evaluation in general, So why what did they.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
See in these guys, especially you know doesn't get out of.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Peewee football level three collegian football player And what really
stands I to me, it would be the fact that
these guys had great work work ethics, that they did
things that they're always there, They came up with some
different new ideas when they spoke in meetings, people listen,
they thought, wow, this guy really has it together for
(07:10):
such a young coach. Something obviously stuck out. But again
I give a lot of credit to those that took
the chance, because just sticking your neck out for Syrianne
or Todd in those different situations. I'd love to hear
that part of the story too.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, that's a great point about, you know, finding talent
in someone, or at least a spark if you don't
even know the talent level.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Well, the story with Todd Haley was well, Nick was
from upstate New York and he was working out the
Lakewood YMCA and Todd Haley happened to come across him
at the time and there must have been something there
that he saw in this guy. And I'm sure it
was work ethic, but it's also that human connection, right.
You see someone who's passionate, articulate, and you connect with
(07:53):
the guy, and he must have made an impression on
Todd Haley, and he had an opening on the staff
and called up this guy's coaching at iup.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Let me give you this.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
I mean, you're just jogging there heavily. I got my
job with the Angels in nineteen eighty one. I got
called on the eve of Thanksgiving in nineteen eighty by
Larry Hymes. Larry had just become the farm director and
scouting director for the Angels going into that moment, and
I'm working in a liquor store in Boulder, Colorado for Baldi,
(08:24):
and I wanted to get back in the game.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
But I'm at this one. You're aware of this, It's
in our book.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
I was ready to go to Italy to play baseball,
which I was very excited about. But Larry comes to
me and calls me that night and asks me if
I'd like to be a full time scout and a
rookie ball manager. And why he did that was because
a couple of years before that in spring trainings, because
that's the only time I was around Larry. In spring trainings.
(08:50):
He was one of the catching instructors, and he liked
the way I went about what I did. I probably
had conversations with him that I don't remember, obviously, but
Larry relied on his personal experience with me, and I
didn't even know it was making any kind of points
from regards to what he thought of me, but I did.
So it was like so weirdly great that he called
(09:10):
me on the eve of Thanksgiving I remember that specifically,
and offered me this position. He says, I give you
a week to think about it. I said, Larry, I
don't need a week, brother.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
I'll take it.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
You know, but that's sometimes we don't. You never know
when you're making a memory.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
You never know.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
I understand where you're making an impression, you don't. It
could be the most innocuous moment or moments, but eventually
it comes back and it could benefit you. But that
you ever realizing. And that's really why, you know, when
it comes down to meeting people, greeting people, just a
perfect stranger, possibly it's just really important, like treat that
person as like you'd like to be treated yourself. And
(09:47):
it's like whatever you put out there comes back.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
To another tone within our book. That's exactly what happened
with Larry and myself.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I love that story with Larry Joe, I really do.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And it also shows you the impact when someone shows
confidence in you, right, you always want to do right
by them after that.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Oh yeah, I think you love this too.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Siriani was asked about you know, he's an emotional guy, right.
We've seen him sometimes on the sidelines. He's shouted some
things at the fans which probably got overblown, you know,
in the heat of battle and stuff like that. But
he is an emotional guy. He's known to raise his voice,
which used to be very common or more common in
football than it is now, and you'll love this grow
for him, he said, I have no doubt that I'm
(10:26):
different than other head coaches, but I am myself. I
don't try to conform to anything other than who I
actually am.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
How about that, Joe, a non conformist into conforming society
one of my old thoughts about myself in the seventies.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Yeah, listen, I love that.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
And again, I don't know the relationship they have there,
but I love the way they opened up the game
that short short yardage thing and they go for the bomb.
I think at the offensive pass interference call, But that
set the tone for me the whole time. I mean
that that moment put Kansas City on its heels. The
fact that they would get away from my Barkley in
that situation, a more tried and true conservative metal.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
No.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
I would bet they went into that thing saying to themselves,
we're not going to beat them at their own game.
We're going to be we have to be assertive, we
have to be aggressive, we have to be bold.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
It had to be part of the game plan.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
And your description of Srianne indicates to me that he's
kind of like that, which is wonderful. That's how you
played the last game of the year, and when you
don't do it timidly. So after all hearing all this
and I watch him on his solids, one of these
days I'll get a chance to meet him and be
able to give them my thoughts in person.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
But that's what I'm saying, that's what I saw, and
it's good to hear that. Be your own guy.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Man in a world where everybody wants everybody to be
like everyone else, and especially when it comes to leadership,
whereas it's used to be. We've talked about you empower people,
Now you want to control people. I'm hoping that the
analytical department there in Philadelphias absolutely help them. I even
think the tush push whatever, that's a part of analytics
(12:01):
that I like. They came up with this idea, this thought,
they saw their quarterback, this great offensive line. They talked
about this, and maybe they presented it to maybe he
had the first thought. I don't know, but I think
that they indicate to me that there's a nice union
between what goes on upstairs and what goes on downstairs.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, it's a great pickup Joe on that call because
I thought at that point, so early in the game,
as you mentioned first position, that was a bit of
a risk just to go for it on fourth down, right,
because you don't get it. You're giving Mahomes a short
field to start out, so I thought just going for
it was a risk. And then the call to throw
it down the field a beautiful call, by the way,
but I think it spoke to what you were talking about.
(12:39):
They were not going to play, you know, within the line,
so to speak, in terms of conservativism or what the
right thing to do. Is just a great, bold call
and that's the way they played, very boldly. And why not,
right this guy now is forty eight and twenty in
the NFL. He's got to the super Bowl twice in
four years. I think only Joe Gibbs and Mike Tomlin
have done that. So really, I mean, what a great hire.
(13:02):
And again just wanted to point out his path, Joe.
He was never a celebrity. There were times when you know,
especially in Philadelphia, you know, the patients is not very long.
They weren't happy with him, but my goodness, you can't
argue with the way he is really brought that team
together as well.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
You brought.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
I think you saw it too in the interviews, Joe,
how much those players really really respond to connect with him?
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Absolutely, that one played fourth down early on. Like you said,
two things, they had conviction in their defense, whatever reason,
they knew the guys were going to be flying around
that day.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
That was part of it. And also.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
The fact that it, to me, it indicated the whole
group was on board offense, defense, special teams, front office,
you know, special teams, coach, head coach, whatever, everybody was
on the same page because that was that was spoken
about in their meetings before that. Listener, we get that's
exact situation with the middle of the field, fourth down,
(13:58):
early short, our defense. We believe they're going to be
extraordinary today. Let's take a chance, writer, let's really set
the tone. And they did that one play to me
set the tone for the whole game.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
The other play I like, Joe, was the touchdown to
a J Brown crossing route.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
I love those where if you noticed they stayed in
the huddle a little longer, they broke to the line
quickly and had a quick snap. And if you watched
the Kansas City defense, they're still calling out their coverages
they're back on their heels. They're not sure what coverage
is the linebackers, and now I think it was no
idea what was going on. And he runs pretty much unabated,
(14:37):
running across the field, wide open, easy touchdown. That was
just great play calling, great execution, great teamwork.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Yeah, I love crossing patterns down there. That's still confusing
to the defense. They got to if it's man and man,
somebody's gonna have picked off. If it's his zone, he's
running from one to the other. Crossing patterns could be
very confusing. I love him, like I said, down I
love him in general, but down close to the end zone,
they could be very effective, just like it was. And
then the replay showed the whole thing how it played
out perfectly. It played out. The other thing I always
(15:06):
loved around when you're driving like that. Weirdly as screen passes,
which really aren't a big thing of the they're like
kind of the passion. Don't see them as often, but
I've always liked screens and crossing patterns down close to
the end zone.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Well, you mentioned the hometown at vic Fangio. We will
talk about besides Joe Madden, the Pride of Northeastern Pennsylvania.
It's right, I do that right after this on the
book of Joe. All right, Joe, tell me your history
(15:43):
with Vic Fangio. How far do you go back?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Well, we go back to Chicago. That's where I really
got to know him. He was the defensive coordinator for
the Bears. He come out to the games and at
Wrigley in the summer. He's a baseball freak. Came down
to the dugout. We hung out a little bit. Several times.
We came down and we stayed in touch, texting, phone calls,
et cetera. And then a couple of years ago, I
went up to done More to revisit Shout Stadium. I
(16:06):
just wanted to see what it looked like again. And
I got there and I called him or texted him
from Shout Stadium, and I guess he wasn't in town,
but he lived right down the street. And he told
me about this Italian restaurant that was really close by.
And since then we've been trying to get to play golf.
Before the season began, he checked in and we we
just couldn't match it up. So but definitely this offseason
we will. But it was all about that part of Donemore.
(16:28):
I mean, Dunmore is like a really big My dad's relative,
father Tony, was a priest there. Father Tony married my
mom and my dad back in nineteen fifty three.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
There's others.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
There's father Arbo, a very good friend as a pastor
priest up in Dunmore. Then Shout Stadium, which is like
one of my best baseball years of my life when
I played for the Scranton Red Sox in nineteen seventy four.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
And then here's Vic right down the street.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Tell me about the Italian place, which I got to
get to at some point I'm gonna definitely make I
definitely will text him and congratulate him and find out
exactly where that place is.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
But that's it. It's a lot of conversation.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
When he's with the Broncos, I would stay in touch
with him often, especially when things weren't going that well.
I just try to pick him up a little bit.
He was always reaching He's always reaches out to me
during the baseball season as the Cubs manager. So we
developed this relationship in Chicago while he was doing that
with the Bears and I was doing that with the Cubs.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
And it's kind of growing.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
So I think it's got to be culminated on a
golf course at some point, whether Homer Road, whether it's
up in Dunware scratting area or down in the Valley
country Club. We're going to do that this off season
for him.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah, he's a big golfer too, so I'm sure he'll
be up for that. And why not get him on
the podcast as well?
Speaker 4 (17:43):
We could?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Yeah, did he mention Old Forge pizza?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Apparently it's like the major joint there where they have
square trays of pizza with it, they have a blend
of cheeses, including American cheese.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Correct, and yes, that's right, and it's outstanding. Last, I mean,
this is off to being pathed with one of my
favorite Lafayette dudes of all time, Tony Giulio, one of
the still if he still holds the all time rushing
records from Lafayette, is a Old Forge guy. Tony passed
away several years ago. He had brain cancer. This is
one of the most lovely human beings I've ever been around,
(18:17):
and really good running back.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
But when you talk about.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Old Forge, not Old Forge, old farg that's how they
say it up there, I just think that's where I played.
That's right through my first high school past. We were
playing Old Forge in high school. I was a sophomore.
I was not starting it. It was the first game
of the season, so coach Simiski puts me in late.
We're getting beat. I just said let's go, and I
just started throwing the ball downfield as far as I could.
And then I ended up starting against Berwick the next week.
(18:41):
Who we happen to beat? Berke's always been a good
pretty much of a powerhouse up there, but so many
roads lead to Old Forge. Of Old Forge, as my
boy Tony Julia once described it.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I love it well.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
VIC grew up on Electric Street and Dunmore. He was
Vic sixty six years old. So he grew up going
to watch the Phillies at Connie Mack Stadium.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
He played safety at Dunmore High School, goes to East Stroudsburg,
did not play football there.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
He goes back to Dunmore as an assistant in nineteen
seventy nine and really the inspiration for him, and he's
spoken about this quite often, his high school football coach,
Jack Henses.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Do you ever hear of Jack Henses?
Speaker 3 (19:24):
I don't know that name, Jack. I mean, we didn't
play that group up there in football. We went up
told Forge. We did that one time, we went to Tuncanick.
My first exhibition game as a sophomore was in Tuncanic.
But for the most part we played down by US
and down to Allentown Bethlem Easton area.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Well.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Jack's father was also a high school football coach.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
They called him Papa Bear.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
But Jack coached fifty two seasons. Okay, how about that
with a record of four hundred and forty four, one
sixty four and eight.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
He was eighty three when he retired.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
You think about all the people that he mentored and influenced,
not all making it to the NFL as head coaches
or assistant coaches, but three of them did actually, including Fangio.
Just an amazing career. I mean that's you think about.
I always say this, Joe, you make a list of
the people who most influenced you in your life, other
than obviously your close family, You're bound to have a
(20:25):
teacher or a coach or both on that list. This
is a good example of that. He really shaped Vick's life, really,
not just career.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
We talked about coach Rooting the book Coach Bob Route
from LAFI had calls my backfield coach. He had been
a head coach at Easton High School right across the
river from I mean Excusman Philipsburg, right across the river
from Easton. Any of this guy, as much as anybody,
helped me to really slow things down and had confidence
in my own convictions. And he was the guy that
(20:53):
and he taught me respect your communication as opposed to intimidation.
That's what I always got from Coach Root. I could
see his face, I could see the sugar Bowl ring
on his hand, and I could just just the way
he would speak to me was just like so grounding
and confident.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
It made me made me feel good.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
He was always he was always boosting my convictions as
opposed to tearing them down in any way, shape or form.
And there's others like we talked Bob Clear in baseball.
I could go on and on, but we were talking
football specifically, you know, Richie and Side. My Midsiet football
coaches were very influential. Coach Siminsky made me tough. The
HD football coach at Hazelton High School, coach Adam Seminski,
(21:34):
made me tough. I mean you you cannot not be
tough and play for this gentleman who played for Duffy
Darty at Michigan State.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
And so these these are the guys.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Man, you only play back the tape like we were
asking me these questions, are presenting these questions right now
that caused me to think that stuff. But it's definitely embedded.
And I'm so grateful that it wasn't easy. I'm so
grateful that it was difficult. I'm so grateful that I
had people that did it just not did not sugarcoat anything,
h and made it a little bit more difficult, only
(22:03):
because they were trying to make you better at what
you did. So, yes, you're absolute, one hundred percent agree
those are the most influential.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
In our lives.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, he had a favorite saying, I guess he had
many of them. But Jack Henses used to say, you know,
they don't put your win total on your gravestone. In
other words, you know, your impact is not the wins
and losses. It's in all those people that you're mentoring
and coaching. So you talk about the influences on Vic Fangio,
that was a huge influence for him. From there he goes,
you got a job at Milford Academy, which basically a
(22:35):
postgraduate school for guys looking to continue their playing careers
as football players in college, goes to UNC as a
graduate assistant, and his big well, actually he went to
the USFL coached on defense in nineteen eighty four, and
his big break he got hired by the Saints as
a linebacker's coach. So that was in nineteen eighty six.
So he's probably seven eight years out of college at
(22:56):
that point. Shoe, you think about those of the grindstone,
there's nothing there you would think that would lead someone
to believe I'm going to be an NFL coach other
than passionate work ethic.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Right, seven years, you haven't played college football at all.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
You've coached some high school teams, you're helping out as assistants,
not even a head coach, and you get your big
break to coach linebackers for the New Orleans Saints. And
he's been in the NFL for four decades since.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Minor league's baby buses, long road trips, bad hotels, not
enough money to eat, You can't save a penny, there's
nothing going in the bank account. It's just a paycheck
to paycheck existence and the work ethic has created your
imagination sorts.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
You're always thinking about.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Different new ways of doing old things, not unlike what's
happening today, but with less help of machines, boxes, analytics,
dat etc. Just pretty much of your own device is
what you were seeing, feeling, hearing, and your own experiences.
So listen, football coaches. I mean, these guys, it's crazy
because they don't minor leagus. You could stay with one
(23:59):
organization like I did for thirty years and eventually have
an opportunity. But these guys like you just described and
normally go from here to there whatever, and if they're
married or married with kids at all, what an existence
that is. So I have so much respect for all
of that. And that's the whole thing. And people turn
on the TV and they see Vic sitting up in
that corner with his eagle hat on and those little
cameras that they put up in the booth, and they
(24:20):
look at him as being very successful, great at what
he does, et cetera. But what you're talking about, we're
talking about right now, that's where that was born. He
was not born, he was not anointed, he was not
just entitled to this particular situation. You saw the Eagles
play dramatically great defense yesterday and as the culmination of
many years of experience that Vic put into that preparation
(24:42):
for that game yesterday.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
And Joe, I know you can relate to this.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
He got his first head coaching job in Denver when
he was sixty years old. That's the fourth oldest first
time head coach in NFL history.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
And would have succeeded better with a quarterback.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I mean, it was at that point where things were
going the other way under center in Denver. And yeah,
I don't probably consider too old to get another opportunity
right now, just the way the world works. Although Pete
Carroll just got his another opportunity post seventy.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
So I was thinking about that though.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
I would almost believe that fix and say, you know what,
I'm good with this. I'm good with this situation in Pennsylvania.
Guy like about two hours, a little over two hour
drive from Philly back to home, up and done. More So,
why wouldn't I stay and do something like this. I'm
respected here, but what I do is really is respected
and sought and rewarded. I'm sure he's gonna get rewarded
(25:41):
for all this too, So I would bet that he is.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
My first job was at fifty one.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
I didn't get to but I got to the copies
right around that, sixty one, sixty two something like that.
But I just think that he's probably going to stay put.
I have to believe that it's a pretty good gig
he's got going on right now. And like I said,
he's in the he's back in the homeland, and so
just nothing but great things from in the future, hopefully.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
He had been with the Dolphins right as a defensive
coordinator and there was some complaints there that he actually ran.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Them too hard. Right now, so good, how about that?
Speaker 3 (26:13):
That's so good Pennsylvania football. I mean, you don't talk
about too hard. I mean, come on, I mean, that's
that's it. I get such a kickout of this stuff. Man,
I get such a kickout of this. I wasn't subject
to this, but the year after ago leave the Hazelton
Akote Loft. Yet that year the team wasn't that good.
I'm not patting myself on the back, but Adam Siminski
used to make these guys run the slate banks after
(26:35):
a Friday night loss Saturday morning, they got their full
gear on their running through like these woods to the
slate banks. Pretty much what is that would be north
of twenty second Street field and the guys that have
to run up and down the slate banks has punishment
for losing the night before or the time we're running gassers.
We're running one hundred and fifty to one hundred and
(26:56):
seventy five yard gassers. After we lose gassers ten yards
and back twenty yards and back thirty yards and back.
I mean, so there was a definite fear of losing instilledness.
And of course, I mean people were gonna listen to
this and say how wrong it was. Okay, and maybe
not the absolute right way to do things, but playing
your brother, toughness is embedded in you and to quit.
(27:21):
If you ever had this chip on you that that
was a quitting kind of a chip, it's absolutely buried.
And that's that's the wonderful memories I have of that time.
So Pennsylvania football has always treated a little bit more differently.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
How about those two days in August.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
The worst and we were going up and down the
hill we had we had to start on eleventh Street
and go down to twenty second Street in the morning,
a severe hill that's been the morning in August. And
then at lunch time whatever that was, you'd have to
go back up the hill full gear. You go after
you take your two hour break, get be dressed whatever,
go back down the hill, and then at the end
(27:58):
of the day go back up the hill. I've seen
guys pass out and Adam putting them in the back
of his pick up truck on the way up the hill.
And the guy was big. Manford Ruda was kind of big.
It was like like two hundred and fifty three hundred
pounds big. And then I saw him with the eight.
If somebody else take Madford downstairs and just throw him
in a swimming pool, just throw him in there to
revive him. I mean, you know, stuff like this doesn't happen.
(28:19):
And our guys going up the hill. There was a
pond on seventeenth Street. Guys that's halfway they're going up
the hill. They stop and they start lapping water out
of the pond, like a pond like with fish and
dirty stuff in it. These guys ended up in the
hospital with some kind of bacteria infection.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
That was all fall football guy.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Better for it.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I hated it and I loved it, So I think
so I'll make that argument.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
My favoritestat going into this game, especially now, is Vic
Pangeo had gone up against Patrick Mahomes teams eight times
previously as a coordinator or head coach in Denver. Obviously
he was oh and eight, really oh and eight against
Patrick Mahomes and he sawved the Rubik's Cube in the
biggest game, Super Bowl fifty nine.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
How good must that feel?
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Did he talk about? I mean, I did he get
to see?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
No?
Speaker 1 (29:10):
No, I mean he talked about I'm not sure about
the record, but he did talk about just the difficulty
of going up against Patrick Mahomes. He talked about how
you know he's so good he normally is, and that's
what blew me away with his Super Bowl He doesn't
make bad decisions. He had a couple of poor throws,
poor decisions, didn't protect the football, which he normally does
really well. And just to me, his football brain as
(29:34):
a computer, he processes things so quickly and he just
wasn't really processing. And give credit to the Eagles for
the way they got him out of his game. But yeah,
I mean, Vic did talk about he needed to solve
Patrick Mahomes because whatever he did in the past did
not work.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Boy, he solved it well.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
They stayed in their lanes.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
I mean, watching those defensive linemen come in, they were
very disciplined. I think that had to be a big
part of the talking talking points before they played regarding Homes.
He had no time to think. There was no there
was not even time to react. I mean, the pressure
on it was that absolute, and even you could see
the uncertainty of the throws, even when Hoskins dropped that
(30:14):
one ball. I mean, I can't believe that this guy's
got some of the best hands ever. They all had
a different look. They got smacked in them out fast, early, quick,
and they never recovered from it. That's not to say
that they played again next week, that Kansas City might
come back and beat him.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
But for yesterday, from.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
The moment that bell rang, the Eagles defense, to me
set the tone and in general, I mean, everybody looks
at the star power of the game, the quarterbacks, running backs,
but the Eagles line play for the last couple of
years has been outstanding offense and defense. Even with Kelsey
at center, they've still been able to maintain that and
that's really where games are won and lost in the NFL.
That line play is so vital, and so yesterday the
(30:53):
defensive line of the Eagles really pretty much I thought,
dominated and won that game for them.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
That's a great point, Joe.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I think that at the line of scrimmage, especially when
the Philadelphia Eagles were on defense, they dominated and that's
where they won the game.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
So congrats to the Eagles. That is well deserved.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
I mean, ever since the bye week early in the season,
that team just played spectacular football. And once again, I
give credit to players you start there, but don't overlook
the coaching and the journey of those coaches. We're going
to take a quick break on the Book of Joe
and we'll squeeze in a little baseball here and tell
you what happened last week in the courtroom that involved
(31:30):
show He Otani. Do that right after this, Welcome back
to the Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Joe.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
I'm not sure if you caught this sentencing for Ipe Muzuhata,
the interpreter for sho Hee Otani. He's convicted of defrauding Otani.
He had sentenced to fifty seven months in prison. At
his sentencing hearing in Orange County last week. What was
interesting thing was he had sent a sentencing letter to
the judge, which is certainly his right to do so,
(32:10):
but actually blew up against him. The judge used that
against him. He didn't think there was enough contrition or
honesty in his statements to the judge. So he has
to I'm not sure he has this, but he has
to pay back eighteen million dollars. Seventeen of that goes
to Otani. The other million is restitution to the irs,
so he had. Mizuhata had asked for an eighteen month sentence,
(32:34):
and the prosecutors asked for the fifty seven months, and
they got all fifty seven months. What does that tell
you about the way the judge looked at this case?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Yeah, I mean, God, I'm so torn by all of this.
You know, we've talked about this when it occurred. I
worked with both of these guys daily, so many conversations
with each one of them daily. Epei was the guy
that would text every day or we talk to every
day in order to set up the schedule for the
next day. And when this all broke, I mean, it
was just like absolutely so hard to understand and believe
(33:05):
just based on watching the interaction between these two guys
going into it, and here comes this letter. I was
I didn't even wasn't even aware of that. He brought
it up to flip from the sentence that he had
asked for to the most difficult one that there was.
There has to be, I don't know, there's got to
be something more deeply to it that we don't even
know about.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
I don't know. I feel for him, it's wrong what
he did.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Obviously knowing Show hey, I would almost bet shoe he
forgives him, or he's going to forgive him.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
I know that.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
I just feel that that's just the kind of person
that he is. You know, Show is never going to
be hurting for money. That's a large sum. It's a
real large sum. And there's no way, like you're saying,
epay ever, going to get an opportunity to pay that back.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Never.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
But I just I wanting him to get through this.
Hopefully he's going to be contrite about the whole thing,
had come out a better person on the other side.
But again from my perspective being part of this group
at that time, it's just so hard to believe it
devolved into.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
That, Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
I don't know Epay as well as you, being around
him more than I, but it'd been around him enough
and the whole thing blew me away, just shocked at
it the level that it did reach. Now, in the
sentencing letter, Epay did mention, in his words, he was
severely underpaid by Otani and was living paycheck to paycheck
and then obviously in his words, he had a gambling addiction. Well,
(34:25):
the judge was like, wait a second, I'm not really
buying that, because, according to the judge, Otani paid Epay's rent,
he tipped them regularly in five figure amounts, gave him
a Porsche, and he paid for him and his wife
to fly around the world. So the judge was like,
I don't know what you're talking about here, and he
saw that as a lack of contrition and honesty, and
(34:47):
that's why essentially he gave him exactly what the prosecutors
asked for.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
You don't see that that often.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Well that that kind of makes sense now that you're
telling me all of that. The amount of money that
you're talking about there is actually very large, and who knows,
I mean, Epay may have just he was in he
was wherever show he was, he pay was so like
he's the center of the baseball universe himself, and nothing
(35:13):
really got transmitted until it went through epay and it
came out of his mouth. And so maybe he's kind
of got a little bit over impressed with himself, or
somebody started, you know, posing the question, maybe even his wife,
like he should be taking.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Better care of you.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Who knows how this all arrived at this particular juncture,
but I did not know what you did the letter
and what the contents were. But I mean, based on
a lot of young people are paid, and especially he's
an interpreter in that situation and the life that he led,
you know, just the travel that he was afforded, all
that stuff. Yeah, I could see where the judge mighty
(35:50):
a little bit upset about that.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
That that kind of makes some sense.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I'm curious, Joe, your take on what we might expect
from Showhy this year. We know that he will not
be pitching probably until May. The Dodgers are going to
slow play him anyway. And then he had the surgery
on his non throwing shoulder, the surgery after he popped
his shoulder in the World Series, which had to kind
of put his rehab in terms of pitching on hold
(36:14):
for a bit. So he's a little bit behind. But
let's assume show he is back on the mound in May.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
What do you expect.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
I mean, this is his second procedure on his right elbow.
Everything seems to be progressing well. Do you think he
can go back to being the same show?
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Hey? I do?
Speaker 3 (36:29):
I mean, if everything's progressing well and the health is
showing up again, I don't think he's going to go
out through with any mental adhesions like holding back. He's
proven himself he can't. He can't come back from the surgery.
And I'd almost believe if he's probably thinking to himself,
if this happens again, okay, I'll just become a position player.
He's already probably thought that all the way through, knowing
(36:52):
that he can be that. And furthermore, I mean, obviously
can't get paid more than he's been paid. So if
there's any kind of concerns about his future regarding financial security,
that's always been solved performance wise this year, they're going
to take very good care of him pitching wise. It's
like the once a week schedule. I'm sure they already
(37:12):
have an innings limit in mind, and part of that's
going to be the fact that he's going to be
able to perform in the postseason, because they can almost surely,
you know, work towards that and knowing that they're going
to be in the postseason. So for me, in a
situation like that, you work backward. You look at the
last World Series game and where you think he's going
to be standing, and you move the schedule back, and
that's when you start building up his innings and you
(37:35):
can really map it out almost like a rehab assignment
all the way through the World Series. I would bet
that's going to be part of the outlay of Fansively speaking,
they may be a little bit more cautious, you know,
with him playing.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
Maybe the day after.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
He pitches or the day before he pitches, something like
that may pop up a little bit too, But overall,
I think you know he'll throw the ball well again.
Is the one thing that can be impacted, quite frankly,
might be his command. I know, coming off the last
time when I first saw him, command wasn't good. And
then when he really got well in health, elp a
sudden wow, fastball started going where he wanted to. Once
(38:07):
fastball started going where he wanted to, then everything else
took off from that. I keep an eye on his
command coming out of this whole thing, but i'd work
it backwards as a pitcher from the last game of
the series two when you want to start his clock.
And like I said, the position player wise, they have
enough other guys. I think they might be a little
bit more conservative, and I don't think you're going to
skim run nearly as often as you did last year.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, he's not stealing fifty bases, we know that.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
I think he's I think his is putting a lot
on him, but he's showing you o Tani. I think
he's getting back to where he was pretty darn quickly.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Joe. I mean, you know how hard of a worker
he is.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
He's so process oriented, and you know the history I
have seen with these Tommy John surgeries. His actually wasn't
specifically Tommy John, but it's similar procedure. Those guys who
are most dedicated to the rehab, which is very boring
and tedious, are those are the guys who come back
better than ever, or at least get back to the
same level.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
And you know, shoe.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
He wants to be the best player in the world world.
He wants to do everything at an absolute elite level.
And I think we tend to forget what a dominating
pitcher he was before this surgery. And you're right, I
think I don't think anybody on the Dodger staff is
going to throw more than say, one hundred and thirty innings.
Nobody They're gonna use a six man rotation extra days.
(39:21):
They have a lot of pictures with injury histories they
have to be careful with anyway. So I do think
he by the end of the season, especially, I like
your point about his command.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
I think he is dominant.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
And if you give me snell Sasaki Tawi, Glasnew, I mean,
who's beating that team? They throw out a number one
starter every day in a postseason series.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Plus they've dog been at their bullpen two And the
thing is that they got like the Kansas City Chiefs, Chip,
I mean, they got players that are able to and
willing two and one two win on an annual basis.
Even though the Chiefs didn't pull off three getting for
three in a row to the final, we did three
nlcs's with the Cubs. While I was there fifteen, sixteen,
(40:04):
and seventeen, and I thought that was a pretty good achievement.
But get to the World Series three years in a
row or get to the Super Bowl three years in
a row not an easy thing to do.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
You definitely have to have the right group.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
We talked about the Yankees in the past, to go
back to the seventies, oaklan A's or even the Cincinnati
Reads those groups, there's got to be a dynamic group
of players that really not only are good, but they're
convicted to winning their level all level five guys, probably
big egos, probably charismatic, and hate to lose. I mean,
these are the kind of things that you have to have.
(40:39):
Were first time I was first time passion. You got
to somehow trick your body and mind into feeling that
on an annual basis. After you've been so successful and
you've done the victory lapse and everybody's telling you how
great you are, you got to go back to camp
next year and just act as though it never happened
and you're doing it for the first time all over again.
Those are the kind of players and personalities that are
(40:59):
able to repeat starts with Like an Andy Reid, you
can see it on the sidelines or Belichick example, So
that's I think they have that capabilities the Dodgers do,
So you're you're probably right about that last pointing. Again,
I'm always concerned about command, like when Show Hey, when
I saw him, like I said, when I first got
their man, who's bouncing his fastball a lot, was really
(41:20):
not very confident with his pitching. And then eventually the
next season came back and was just like, who.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
Is this guy? It was just it was dotting it up.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
So let's let's just watch fastball command and try to
figure it out after that.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Yeah, and I should mention also as well Yoshinobu Yamamoto,
who I think is going to be even better with
his second year in MLB and he was really good
by the end.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Of last season.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
So all eyes on the Dodgers as camps open up
this week, Joe, how about that camp's opening up. The
Dodgers are just that they're the it team, right, They're
like the Yankees of the late nineties, loaded with stars
everywhere they go. There are stories abounding with the LA Dodgers.
The definitely I would think the team to beat, just
because they're defending champions, but they're absolutely loaded. So Joe,
(42:06):
we've reached the ninth inning here. You always bring us
home with some words of wisdom. What do you have
today with our Eagles as Super Bowl fifty nine champions?
Speaker 4 (42:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (42:17):
I was actually had that in mind, and it stirred
me towards this.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
I was was looking for conviction, That's what I was
looking for.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
And Gerta Johann Wolfkean gang bon Gerte, who has some
really good stuff if you look up his quotes, and
I thought this was really pertinent. It actually applies to
vic and I think you and I too. I will
listen to anyone's convictions, but keep your doubts to yourself.
I'm looking at the conviction of the way the Eagles
played that game. They didn't care, they didn't care what
(42:44):
everybody's saying about the Chiefs and how great there the
repeat and all this other stuff. And I even read
where people were concerned that pat Riley, I guess did
pat rally coined the phrase three peat?
Speaker 4 (42:54):
And then he did it? Yeah, okay, so think yous
have to get paid for that.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
But I was really I saw such conviction again, Eagles
in general, hurst played a great game they all played wonderfully.
Wide receivers were good, but at defense really set the
tone for that game yesterday. So they're gonna listen to
anyone's convictions, but keep your doubts to yourself. We know,
we know we're going to do this, we know we
(43:20):
have the right game plan. We know if we punch
them in the face early, it's going to change. And
that's exactly what they did yesterday. So praise be to them.
I mean, that's that's a great job on the Eagles
part now and again, personally, I'm very happy for coach Fangio.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Congrats to the Eagles.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
And with the NFL season over, you know what that means,
time to break out the baseballs and the bats. Joe
Spring Training welcome.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
And the Also the tailor made TP five's I've kind
of the high visibility TP five just in case you're
getting the rough really help.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Yeah, Hey, great job. We'll see you next time on
the Book of Joe.
Speaker 4 (43:56):
All right, brothers, see you later, man.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts,
The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey thereon, Welcome Back to the Book of Joe with Me,
Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and our glue guy. Vince
actually made it down from a light poul Joe after
(00:25):
the Eagles won the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
So glad to have him back.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
I would expect nothing less than that. Congratulations to Vince,
diehard Eagles fan. I've got a lot of folks back
there that I got to say congrats to.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
But they aired Vic.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Fangio, the defensive Corny were just talking about him. He's
from Dunmore, Pennsylvania. Used to play summer ball and Dunmore
at Shouts Stadium of the Scranton Red Sox.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
And I think of anything.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
I mean, of course, the Eagles played a complete game,
but their defense yesterday that was that was stellar.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
I mean, Mahomes couldn't breathe.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I could believe the looks on the Chiefs faces when
they got in real Titus.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
It's like we've talked about.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I talked about those playoff situations where you look at
the other team's face and they're defeated. They were defeated
rarely in that game. That's how tough the Eagles defense
was yesterday.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah, must have brought you back to the two thousand
and two playoffs Angels against the Yankees.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
It did, I swear to god, it did.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I sing it with Wendy, and I'm saying, look at
their faces, look at their faces.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
They were done.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
And it happens, manet, it is I old, you get
punched in the face. You got a great plan and
you get punched in the face. That's exactly what happened
to them. They're used to getting down and coming back,
but not like that. They felt that defense on them.
And I really thought Mahomes would prevail before the game began,
but I didn't anticipate that either. And like I said, Vick,
(01:45):
I'm happy for Vic. It's wonderful.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Well, Joe, I'm glad you brought him up.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
And we need to talk more about the Super Bowl,
not just because it's an American spectacle it seems to
get bigger every year, but I think it leads us
to something we love talking about on this podcast and
including in our book especially, is the craft of teaching
and coaching, and they're really one and the same. And
to me, the Super Bowl was a testament to teaching
(02:10):
and coaching. Yes, players play, and to be a great coach,
obviously you need great players. But the stories behind these guys,
Nick Sirianni and Vic Fungio, we need to explore that,
and I think it's something that's close to us, Joe,
because Nick Siriano played three years of college football in
Division III at Mount Union. Vic Fangio did not play
(02:33):
college football, and Joe, as someone you are one of
the few people to win a World Series as a
manager who did not play Major League Baseball. I'm the
only person who has won an Emmy as an analyst
who did not play or coach professionally. So I think
we can relate, especially near and dear to our hearts
and the importance of it's not who you are, it's
(02:56):
what you do, right, what your background is. We talk
a lot here about the journey, so we are going
to talk about the journeys and the spectacular story that
need to be told.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
So how about Sirianni.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
First of all, Joe, did you know that his ancestry
is from Calabria over in Italy.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I've got that in common with him.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I did not know that, But I mean the last
name any named concludsion of Valves. We got the Italian
connection there, man, We've got some very prolific Italians in
the background of the Philadelphia Eagles victory right there, Sirianni
watch him on his silent extremely animated I know vic
Vic used to come see me and the dugout in Chicago.
Was the Bears defensive coordinator at that time, and just
(03:35):
you know, straight, I don't know, Sirianni, but from Vick's perspective,
this is one of those guys that there's no filter.
It's just this is what I'm thinking, this is who
I am, that kind of stuff, and I've always appreciated
that about him.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
But yeah, as a Novalve.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
That's good, good start. But also the backgrounds of these guys, Joe,
I think both of us can relate. You are one
of the few major league managers who won a World
Series without having played Major League Baseball, and I can relate.
I'm the only ones to win a Sports Emmy as
an analyst who is not a former player or a coach.
So we talk a lot on this podcast about journeys,
right and just incredible journeys at the two of them,
(04:11):
And obviously you're familiar with Vicks, and we'll get into
that in a minute, but let's start with Sirianni because
he did not play major college football. He played three
years at Mount Union. That's Division three. Now that's a
good team, but that's Division three. You don't see a
lot of NFL coaches coming out of D three football.
And then he started his career at Indiana University of Pennsylvania.
(04:31):
That's iup, Joe. I'm sure you've heard of it. As
a Pennsylvania guy.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
We have a western Pennsylvania. It was part of the
state college system at one time. They became universities eventually,
but it was always about teachers. Colleges all throughout Pennsylvania
is a great conceptor from coast to coast of Pennsylvania.
You got these different teacher colleges. And yes, I'm very
much I don't think it's far from slippy Rock.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Right, I think you're right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
So he gets hired his big break, I guess you
could call it the Chiefs, their quality control coach they
hired is that the head coach was Todd Haley at
the time, and he's got an incredible journey as well.
He's one of the few head coaches who never played
beyond peewee football to become an NFL coach, that's just amazing.
He played golf actually in college. So that was Nick's
(05:19):
big break. He goes to the Chargers and then he
goes to the Colts as the offensive coordinator, and he
hired by the Eagles. Jeffrey Lorie hired him as a
relative unknown, and of course Andy Reid was a relative
unknown when he was hired by the Eagles as well.
But this was really interesting too, Joe that when he
was in Kansas City, the head coach at the time
(05:39):
was Romeo Crenell. He gets fired and they hire the
Chiefs hire Andy Reid. Andy Reid was the one who
told Siriani that he was no longer working for the Chiefs,
that he was out. Nick said, it was an awesome conversation.
But how about that talk about full circle? Then you
meet the guy in the super Bowl.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
That is I didn't know that all that part about
it when you're explaining this setting this whole thing up
in my first thought is because you know, how did
I get to where I am or what I've done?
And same with you, who did the evaluation to say
that I should be a coach, manager, et cetera. And
the same thing with you and your profession. So I'm
(06:19):
curious about that exactly. You don't know the answer, But
what did they see in these guys, Todd or Serrianne?
What did they see in these guys? I can understand
why Randy did what he did with Seranni when he
got there, because he wanted to bring his own staff
in regardless of how.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
Good he might have thought this fellow was, he just
needed to do that.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
But I'm always curious, Like we talk about the scouting background,
player evaluation, evaluation in general, So why what did they.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
See in these guys, especially you know doesn't get out of.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Peewee football level three collegian football player And what really
stands I to me, it would be the fact that
these guys had great work work ethics, that they did
things that they're always there, They came up with some
different new ideas when they spoke in meetings, people listen,
they thought, wow, this guy really has it together for
(07:10):
such a young coach. Something obviously stuck out. But again
I give a lot of credit to those that took
the chance, because just sticking your neck out for Syrianne
or Todd in those different situations. I'd love to hear
that part of the story too.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, that's a great point about, you know, finding talent
in someone, or at least a spark if you don't
even know the talent level.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Well, the story with Todd Haley was well, Nick was
from upstate New York and he was working out the
Lakewood YMCA and Todd Haley happened to come across him
at the time and there must have been something there
that he saw in this guy. And I'm sure it
was work ethic, but it's also that human connection, right.
You see someone who's passionate, articulate, and you connect with
(07:53):
the guy, and he must have made an impression on
Todd Haley, and he had an opening on the staff
and called up this guy's coaching at iup.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
Let me give you this.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
I mean, you're just jogging there heavily. I got my
job with the Angels in nineteen eighty one. I got
called on the eve of Thanksgiving in nineteen eighty by
Larry Hymes. Larry had just become the farm director and
scouting director for the Angels going into that moment, and
I'm working in a liquor store in Boulder, Colorado for Baldi,
(08:24):
and I wanted to get back in the game.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
But I'm at this one. You're aware of this, It's
in our book.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
I was ready to go to Italy to play baseball,
which I was very excited about. But Larry comes to
me and calls me that night and asks me if
I'd like to be a full time scout and a
rookie ball manager. And why he did that was because
a couple of years before that in spring trainings, because
that's the only time I was around Larry. In spring trainings.
(08:50):
He was one of the catching instructors, and he liked
the way I went about what I did. I probably
had conversations with him that I don't remember, obviously, but
Larry relied on his personal experience with me, and I
didn't even know it was making any kind of points
from regards to what he thought of me, but I did.
So it was like so weirdly great that he called
(09:10):
me on the eve of Thanksgiving I remember that specifically,
and offered me this position. He says, I give you
a week to think about it. I said, Larry, I
don't need a week, brother.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
I'll take it.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
You know, but that's sometimes we don't. You never know
when you're making a memory.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
You never know.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
I understand where you're making an impression, you don't. It
could be the most innocuous moment or moments, but eventually
it comes back and it could benefit you. But that
you ever realizing. And that's really why, you know, when
it comes down to meeting people, greeting people, just a
perfect stranger, possibly it's just really important, like treat that
person as like you'd like to be treated yourself. And
(09:47):
it's like whatever you put out there comes back.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
To another tone within our book. That's exactly what happened
with Larry and myself.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I love that story with Larry Joe, I really do.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And it also shows you the impact when someone shows
confidence in you, right, you always want to do right
by them after that.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Oh yeah, I think you love this too.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Siriani was asked about you know, he's an emotional guy, right.
We've seen him sometimes on the sidelines. He's shouted some
things at the fans which probably got overblown, you know,
in the heat of battle and stuff like that. But
he is an emotional guy. He's known to raise his voice,
which used to be very common or more common in
football than it is now, and you'll love this grow
for him, he said, I have no doubt that I'm
(10:26):
different than other head coaches, but I am myself. I
don't try to conform to anything other than who I
actually am.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
How about that, Joe, a non conformist into conforming society
one of my old thoughts about myself in the seventies.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Yeah, listen, I love that.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
And again, I don't know the relationship they have there,
but I love the way they opened up the game
that short short yardage thing and they go for the bomb.
I think at the offensive pass interference call, But that
set the tone for me the whole time. I mean
that that moment put Kansas City on its heels. The
fact that they would get away from my Barkley in
that situation, a more tried and true conservative metal.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
No.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
I would bet they went into that thing saying to themselves,
we're not going to beat them at their own game.
We're going to be we have to be assertive, we
have to be aggressive, we have to be bold.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
It had to be part of the game plan.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
And your description of Srianne indicates to me that he's
kind of like that, which is wonderful. That's how you
played the last game of the year, and when you
don't do it timidly. So after all hearing all this
and I watch him on his solids, one of these
days I'll get a chance to meet him and be
able to give them my thoughts in person.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
But that's what I'm saying, that's what I saw, and
it's good to hear that. Be your own guy.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Man in a world where everybody wants everybody to be
like everyone else, and especially when it comes to leadership,
whereas it's used to be. We've talked about you empower people,
Now you want to control people. I'm hoping that the
analytical department there in Philadelphias absolutely help them. I even
think the tush push whatever, that's a part of analytics
(12:01):
that I like. They came up with this idea, this thought,
they saw their quarterback, this great offensive line. They talked
about this, and maybe they presented it to maybe he
had the first thought. I don't know, but I think
that they indicate to me that there's a nice union
between what goes on upstairs and what goes on downstairs.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, it's a great pickup Joe on that call because
I thought at that point, so early in the game,
as you mentioned first position, that was a bit of
a risk just to go for it on fourth down, right,
because you don't get it. You're giving Mahomes a short
field to start out, so I thought just going for
it was a risk. And then the call to throw
it down the field a beautiful call, by the way,
but I think it spoke to what you were talking about.
(12:39):
They were not going to play, you know, within the line,
so to speak, in terms of conservativism or what the
right thing to do. Is just a great, bold call
and that's the way they played, very boldly. And why not,
right this guy now is forty eight and twenty in
the NFL. He's got to the super Bowl twice in
four years. I think only Joe Gibbs and Mike Tomlin
have done that. So really, I mean, what a great hire.
(13:02):
And again just wanted to point out his path, Joe.
He was never a celebrity. There were times when you know,
especially in Philadelphia, you know, the patients is not very long.
They weren't happy with him, but my goodness, you can't
argue with the way he is really brought that team
together as well.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
You brought.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
I think you saw it too in the interviews, Joe,
how much those players really really respond to connect with him?
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Absolutely, that one played fourth down early on. Like you said,
two things, they had conviction in their defense, whatever reason,
they knew the guys were going to be flying around
that day.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
That was part of it. And also.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
The fact that it, to me, it indicated the whole
group was on board offense, defense, special teams, front office,
you know, special teams, coach, head coach, whatever, everybody was
on the same page because that was that was spoken
about in their meetings before that. Listener, we get that's
exact situation with the middle of the field, fourth down,
(13:58):
early short, our defense. We believe they're going to be
extraordinary today. Let's take a chance, writer, let's really set
the tone. And they did that one play to me
set the tone for the whole game.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
The other play I like, Joe, was the touchdown to
a J Brown crossing route.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
I love those where if you noticed they stayed in
the huddle a little longer, they broke to the line
quickly and had a quick snap. And if you watched
the Kansas City defense, they're still calling out their coverages
they're back on their heels. They're not sure what coverage
is the linebackers, and now I think it was no
idea what was going on. And he runs pretty much unabated,
(14:37):
running across the field, wide open, easy touchdown. That was
just great play calling, great execution, great teamwork.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Yeah, I love crossing patterns down there. That's still confusing
to the defense. They got to if it's man and man,
somebody's gonna have picked off. If it's his zone, he's
running from one to the other. Crossing patterns could be
very confusing. I love him, like I said, down I
love him in general, but down close to the end zone,
they could be very effective, just like it was. And
then the replay showed the whole thing how it played
out perfectly. It played out. The other thing I always
(15:06):
loved around when you're driving like that. Weirdly as screen passes,
which really aren't a big thing of the they're like
kind of the passion. Don't see them as often, but
I've always liked screens and crossing patterns down close to
the end zone.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Well, you mentioned the hometown at vic Fangio. We will
talk about besides Joe Madden, the Pride of Northeastern Pennsylvania.
It's right, I do that right after this on the
book of Joe. All right, Joe, tell me your history
(15:43):
with Vic Fangio. How far do you go back?
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Well, we go back to Chicago. That's where I really
got to know him. He was the defensive coordinator for
the Bears. He come out to the games and at
Wrigley in the summer. He's a baseball freak. Came down
to the dugout. We hung out a little bit. Several times.
We came down and we stayed in touch, texting, phone calls,
et cetera. And then a couple of years ago, I
went up to done More to revisit Shout Stadium. I
(16:06):
just wanted to see what it looked like again. And
I got there and I called him or texted him
from Shout Stadium, and I guess he wasn't in town,
but he lived right down the street. And he told
me about this Italian restaurant that was really close by.
And since then we've been trying to get to play golf.
Before the season began, he checked in and we we
just couldn't match it up. So but definitely this offseason
we will. But it was all about that part of Donemore.
(16:28):
I mean, Dunmore is like a really big My dad's relative,
father Tony, was a priest there. Father Tony married my
mom and my dad back in nineteen fifty three.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
There's others.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
There's father Arbo, a very good friend as a pastor
priest up in Dunmore. Then Shout Stadium, which is like
one of my best baseball years of my life when
I played for the Scranton Red Sox in nineteen seventy four.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
And then here's Vic right down the street.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Tell me about the Italian place, which I got to
get to at some point I'm gonna definitely make I
definitely will text him and congratulate him and find out
exactly where that place is.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
But that's it. It's a lot of conversation.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
When he's with the Broncos, I would stay in touch
with him often, especially when things weren't going that well.
I just try to pick him up a little bit.
He was always reaching He's always reaches out to me
during the baseball season as the Cubs manager. So we
developed this relationship in Chicago while he was doing that
with the Bears and I was doing that with the Cubs.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
And it's kind of growing.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
So I think it's got to be culminated on a
golf course at some point, whether Homer Road, whether it's
up in Dunware scratting area or down in the Valley
country Club. We're going to do that this off season
for him.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah, he's a big golfer too, so I'm sure he'll
be up for that. And why not get him on
the podcast as well?
Speaker 4 (17:43):
We could?
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Yeah, did he mention Old Forge pizza?
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Apparently it's like the major joint there where they have
square trays of pizza with it, they have a blend
of cheeses, including American cheese.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Correct, and yes, that's right, and it's outstanding. Last, I mean,
this is off to being pathed with one of my
favorite Lafayette dudes of all time, Tony Giulio, one of
the still if he still holds the all time rushing
records from Lafayette, is a Old Forge guy. Tony passed
away several years ago. He had brain cancer. This is
one of the most lovely human beings I've ever been around,
(18:17):
and really good running back.
Speaker 4 (18:18):
But when you talk about.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Old Forge, not Old Forge, old farg that's how they
say it up there, I just think that's where I played.
That's right through my first high school past. We were
playing Old Forge in high school. I was a sophomore.
I was not starting it. It was the first game
of the season, so coach Simiski puts me in late.
We're getting beat. I just said let's go, and I
just started throwing the ball downfield as far as I could.
And then I ended up starting against Berwick the next week.
(18:41):
Who we happen to beat? Berke's always been a good
pretty much of a powerhouse up there, but so many
roads lead to Old Forge. Of Old Forge, as my
boy Tony Julia once described it.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
I love it well.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
VIC grew up on Electric Street and Dunmore. He was
Vic sixty six years old. So he grew up going
to watch the Phillies at Connie Mack Stadium.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
He played safety at Dunmore High School, goes to East Stroudsburg,
did not play football there.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
He goes back to Dunmore as an assistant in nineteen
seventy nine and really the inspiration for him, and he's
spoken about this quite often, his high school football coach,
Jack Henses.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Do you ever hear of Jack Henses?
Speaker 3 (19:24):
I don't know that name, Jack. I mean, we didn't
play that group up there in football. We went up
told Forge. We did that one time, we went to Tuncanick.
My first exhibition game as a sophomore was in Tuncanic.
But for the most part we played down by US
and down to Allentown Bethlem Easton area.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Well.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Jack's father was also a high school football coach.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
They called him Papa Bear.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
But Jack coached fifty two seasons. Okay, how about that
with a record of four hundred and forty four, one
sixty four and eight.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
He was eighty three when he retired.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
You think about all the people that he mentored and influenced,
not all making it to the NFL as head coaches
or assistant coaches, but three of them did actually, including Fangio.
Just an amazing career. I mean that's you think about.
I always say this, Joe, you make a list of
the people who most influenced you in your life, other
than obviously your close family, You're bound to have a
(20:25):
teacher or a coach or both on that list. This
is a good example of that. He really shaped Vick's life, really,
not just career.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
We talked about coach Rooting the book Coach Bob Route
from LAFI had calls my backfield coach. He had been
a head coach at Easton High School right across the
river from I mean Excusman Philipsburg, right across the river
from Easton. Any of this guy, as much as anybody,
helped me to really slow things down and had confidence
in my own convictions. And he was the guy that
(20:53):
and he taught me respect your communication as opposed to intimidation.
That's what I always got from Coach Root. I could
see his face, I could see the sugar Bowl ring
on his hand, and I could just just the way
he would speak to me was just like so grounding
and confident.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
It made me made me feel good.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
He was always he was always boosting my convictions as
opposed to tearing them down in any way, shape or form.
And there's others like we talked Bob Clear in baseball.
I could go on and on, but we were talking
football specifically, you know, Richie and Side. My Midsiet football
coaches were very influential. Coach Siminsky made me tough. The
HD football coach at Hazelton High School, coach Adam Seminski,
(21:34):
made me tough. I mean you you cannot not be
tough and play for this gentleman who played for Duffy
Darty at Michigan State.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
And so these these are the guys.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Man, you only play back the tape like we were
asking me these questions, are presenting these questions right now
that caused me to think that stuff. But it's definitely embedded.
And I'm so grateful that it wasn't easy. I'm so
grateful that it was difficult. I'm so grateful that I
had people that did it just not did not sugarcoat anything,
h and made it a little bit more difficult, only
(22:03):
because they were trying to make you better at what
you did. So, yes, you're absolute, one hundred percent agree
those are the most influential.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
In our lives.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, he had a favorite saying, I guess he had
many of them. But Jack Henses used to say, you know,
they don't put your win total on your gravestone. In
other words, you know, your impact is not the wins
and losses. It's in all those people that you're mentoring
and coaching. So you talk about the influences on Vic Fangio,
that was a huge influence for him. From there he goes,
you got a job at Milford Academy, which basically a
(22:35):
postgraduate school for guys looking to continue their playing careers
as football players in college, goes to UNC as a
graduate assistant, and his big well, actually he went to
the USFL coached on defense in nineteen eighty four, and
his big break he got hired by the Saints as
a linebacker's coach. So that was in nineteen eighty six.
So he's probably seven eight years out of college at
(22:56):
that point. Shoe, you think about those of the grindstone,
there's nothing there you would think that would lead someone
to believe I'm going to be an NFL coach other
than passionate work ethic.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Right, seven years, you haven't played college football at all.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
You've coached some high school teams, you're helping out as assistants,
not even a head coach, and you get your big
break to coach linebackers for the New Orleans Saints. And
he's been in the NFL for four decades since.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Minor league's baby buses, long road trips, bad hotels, not
enough money to eat, You can't save a penny, there's
nothing going in the bank account. It's just a paycheck
to paycheck existence and the work ethic has created your
imagination sorts.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
You're always thinking about.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Different new ways of doing old things, not unlike what's
happening today, but with less help of machines, boxes, analytics,
dat etc. Just pretty much of your own device is
what you were seeing, feeling, hearing, and your own experiences.
So listen, football coaches. I mean, these guys, it's crazy
because they don't minor leagus. You could stay with one
(23:59):
organization like I did for thirty years and eventually have
an opportunity. But these guys like you just described and
normally go from here to there whatever, and if they're
married or married with kids at all, what an existence
that is. So I have so much respect for all
of that. And that's the whole thing. And people turn
on the TV and they see Vic sitting up in
that corner with his eagle hat on and those little
cameras that they put up in the booth, and they
(24:20):
look at him as being very successful, great at what
he does, et cetera. But what you're talking about, we're
talking about right now, that's where that was born. He
was not born, he was not anointed, he was not
just entitled to this particular situation. You saw the Eagles
play dramatically great defense yesterday and as the culmination of
many years of experience that Vic put into that preparation
(24:42):
for that game yesterday.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
And Joe, I know you can relate to this.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
He got his first head coaching job in Denver when
he was sixty years old. That's the fourth oldest first
time head coach in NFL history.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
And would have succeeded better with a quarterback.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I mean, it was at that point where things were
going the other way under center in Denver. And yeah,
I don't probably consider too old to get another opportunity
right now, just the way the world works. Although Pete
Carroll just got his another opportunity post seventy.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
So I was thinking about that though.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
I would almost believe that fix and say, you know what,
I'm good with this. I'm good with this situation in Pennsylvania.
Guy like about two hours, a little over two hour
drive from Philly back to home, up and done. More So,
why wouldn't I stay and do something like this. I'm
respected here, but what I do is really is respected
and sought and rewarded. I'm sure he's gonna get rewarded
(25:41):
for all this too, So I would bet that he is.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
My first job was at fifty one.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
I didn't get to but I got to the copies
right around that, sixty one, sixty two something like that.
But I just think that he's probably going to stay put.
I have to believe that it's a pretty good gig
he's got going on right now. And like I said,
he's in the he's back in the homeland, and so
just nothing but great things from in the future, hopefully.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
He had been with the Dolphins right as a defensive
coordinator and there was some complaints there that he actually ran.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Them too hard. Right now, so good, how about that?
Speaker 3 (26:13):
That's so good Pennsylvania football. I mean, you don't talk
about too hard. I mean, come on, I mean, that's
that's it. I get such a kickout of this stuff. Man,
I get such a kickout of this. I wasn't subject
to this, but the year after ago leave the Hazelton
Akote Loft. Yet that year the team wasn't that good.
I'm not patting myself on the back, but Adam Siminski
used to make these guys run the slate banks after
(26:35):
a Friday night loss Saturday morning, they got their full
gear on their running through like these woods to the
slate banks. Pretty much what is that would be north
of twenty second Street field and the guys that have
to run up and down the slate banks has punishment
for losing the night before or the time we're running gassers.
We're running one hundred and fifty to one hundred and
(26:56):
seventy five yard gassers. After we lose gassers ten yards
and back twenty yards and back thirty yards and back.
I mean, so there was a definite fear of losing instilledness.
And of course, I mean people were gonna listen to
this and say how wrong it was. Okay, and maybe
not the absolute right way to do things, but playing
your brother, toughness is embedded in you and to quit.
(27:21):
If you ever had this chip on you that that
was a quitting kind of a chip, it's absolutely buried.
And that's that's the wonderful memories I have of that time.
So Pennsylvania football has always treated a little bit more differently.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
How about those two days in August.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
The worst and we were going up and down the
hill we had we had to start on eleventh Street
and go down to twenty second Street in the morning,
a severe hill that's been the morning in August. And
then at lunch time whatever that was, you'd have to
go back up the hill full gear. You go after
you take your two hour break, get be dressed whatever,
go back down the hill, and then at the end
(27:58):
of the day go back up the hill. I've seen
guys pass out and Adam putting them in the back
of his pick up truck on the way up the hill.
And the guy was big. Manford Ruda was kind of big.
It was like like two hundred and fifty three hundred
pounds big. And then I saw him with the eight.
If somebody else take Madford downstairs and just throw him
in a swimming pool, just throw him in there to
revive him. I mean, you know, stuff like this doesn't happen.
(28:19):
And our guys going up the hill. There was a
pond on seventeenth Street. Guys that's halfway they're going up
the hill. They stop and they start lapping water out
of the pond, like a pond like with fish and
dirty stuff in it. These guys ended up in the
hospital with some kind of bacteria infection.
Speaker 4 (28:37):
That was all fall football guy.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Better for it.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I hated it and I loved it, So I think
so I'll make that argument.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
My favoritestat going into this game, especially now, is Vic
Pangeo had gone up against Patrick Mahomes teams eight times
previously as a coordinator or head coach in Denver. Obviously
he was oh and eight, really oh and eight against
Patrick Mahomes and he sawved the Rubik's Cube in the
biggest game, Super Bowl fifty nine.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
How good must that feel?
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Did he talk about? I mean, I did he get
to see?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
No?
Speaker 1 (29:10):
No, I mean he talked about I'm not sure about
the record, but he did talk about just the difficulty
of going up against Patrick Mahomes. He talked about how
you know he's so good he normally is, and that's
what blew me away with his Super Bowl He doesn't
make bad decisions. He had a couple of poor throws,
poor decisions, didn't protect the football, which he normally does
really well. And just to me, his football brain as
(29:34):
a computer, he processes things so quickly and he just
wasn't really processing. And give credit to the Eagles for
the way they got him out of his game. But yeah,
I mean, Vic did talk about he needed to solve
Patrick Mahomes because whatever he did in the past did
not work.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Boy, he solved it well.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
They stayed in their lanes.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
I mean, watching those defensive linemen come in, they were
very disciplined. I think that had to be a big
part of the talking talking points before they played regarding Homes.
He had no time to think. There was no there
was not even time to react. I mean, the pressure
on it was that absolute, and even you could see
the uncertainty of the throws, even when Hoskins dropped that
(30:14):
one ball. I mean, I can't believe that this guy's
got some of the best hands ever. They all had
a different look. They got smacked in them out fast, early, quick,
and they never recovered from it. That's not to say
that they played again next week, that Kansas City might
come back and beat him.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
But for yesterday, from.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
The moment that bell rang, the Eagles defense, to me
set the tone and in general, I mean, everybody looks
at the star power of the game, the quarterbacks, running backs,
but the Eagles line play for the last couple of
years has been outstanding offense and defense. Even with Kelsey
at center, they've still been able to maintain that and
that's really where games are won and lost in the NFL.
That line play is so vital, and so yesterday the
(30:53):
defensive line of the Eagles really pretty much I thought,
dominated and won that game for them.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
That's a great point, Joe.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I think that at the line of scrimmage, especially when
the Philadelphia Eagles were on defense, they dominated and that's
where they won the game.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
So congrats to the Eagles. That is well deserved.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
I mean, ever since the bye week early in the season,
that team just played spectacular football. And once again, I
give credit to players you start there, but don't overlook
the coaching and the journey of those coaches. We're going
to take a quick break on the Book of Joe
and we'll squeeze in a little baseball here and tell
you what happened last week in the courtroom that involved
(31:30):
show He Otani. Do that right after this, Welcome back
to the Book of Joe.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Joe.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
I'm not sure if you caught this sentencing for Ipe Muzuhata,
the interpreter for sho Hee Otani. He's convicted of defrauding Otani.
He had sentenced to fifty seven months in prison. At
his sentencing hearing in Orange County last week. What was
interesting thing was he had sent a sentencing letter to
the judge, which is certainly his right to do so,
(32:10):
but actually blew up against him. The judge used that
against him. He didn't think there was enough contrition or
honesty in his statements to the judge. So he has
to I'm not sure he has this, but he has
to pay back eighteen million dollars. Seventeen of that goes
to Otani. The other million is restitution to the irs,
so he had. Mizuhata had asked for an eighteen month sentence,
(32:34):
and the prosecutors asked for the fifty seven months, and
they got all fifty seven months. What does that tell
you about the way the judge looked at this case?
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Yeah, I mean, God, I'm so torn by all of this.
You know, we've talked about this when it occurred. I
worked with both of these guys daily, so many conversations
with each one of them daily. Epei was the guy
that would text every day or we talk to every
day in order to set up the schedule for the
next day. And when this all broke, I mean, it
was just like absolutely so hard to understand and believe
(33:05):
just based on watching the interaction between these two guys
going into it, and here comes this letter. I was
I didn't even wasn't even aware of that. He brought
it up to flip from the sentence that he had
asked for to the most difficult one that there was.
There has to be, I don't know, there's got to
be something more deeply to it that we don't even
know about.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
I don't know. I feel for him, it's wrong what
he did.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Obviously knowing Show hey, I would almost bet shoe he
forgives him, or he's going to forgive him.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
I know that.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
I just feel that that's just the kind of person
that he is. You know, Show is never going to
be hurting for money. That's a large sum. It's a
real large sum. And there's no way, like you're saying,
epay ever, going to get an opportunity to pay that back.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Never.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
But I just I wanting him to get through this.
Hopefully he's going to be contrite about the whole thing,
had come out a better person on the other side.
But again from my perspective being part of this group
at that time, it's just so hard to believe it
devolved into.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
That, Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
I don't know Epay as well as you, being around
him more than I, but it'd been around him enough
and the whole thing blew me away, just shocked at
it the level that it did reach. Now, in the
sentencing letter, Epay did mention, in his words, he was
severely underpaid by Otani and was living paycheck to paycheck
and then obviously in his words, he had a gambling addiction. Well,
(34:25):
the judge was like, wait a second, I'm not really
buying that, because, according to the judge, Otani paid Epay's rent,
he tipped them regularly in five figure amounts, gave him
a Porsche, and he paid for him and his wife
to fly around the world. So the judge was like,
I don't know what you're talking about here, and he
saw that as a lack of contrition and honesty, and
(34:47):
that's why essentially he gave him exactly what the prosecutors
asked for.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
You don't see that that often.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Well that that kind of makes sense now that you're
telling me all of that. The amount of money that
you're talking about there is actually very large, and who knows,
I mean, Epay may have just he was in he
was wherever show he was, he pay was so like
he's the center of the baseball universe himself, and nothing
(35:13):
really got transmitted until it went through epay and it
came out of his mouth. And so maybe he's kind
of got a little bit over impressed with himself, or
somebody started, you know, posing the question, maybe even his wife,
like he should be taking.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Better care of you.
Speaker 3 (35:27):
Who knows how this all arrived at this particular juncture,
but I did not know what you did the letter
and what the contents were. But I mean, based on
a lot of young people are paid, and especially he's
an interpreter in that situation and the life that he led,
you know, just the travel that he was afforded, all
that stuff. Yeah, I could see where the judge mighty
(35:50):
a little bit upset about that.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
That that kind of makes some sense.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
I'm curious, Joe, your take on what we might expect
from Showhy this year. We know that he will not
be pitching probably until May. The Dodgers are going to
slow play him anyway. And then he had the surgery
on his non throwing shoulder, the surgery after he popped
his shoulder in the World Series, which had to kind
of put his rehab in terms of pitching on hold
(36:14):
for a bit. So he's a little bit behind. But
let's assume show he is back on the mound in May.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
What do you expect.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
I mean, this is his second procedure on his right elbow.
Everything seems to be progressing well. Do you think he
can go back to being the same show?
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Hey? I do?
Speaker 3 (36:29):
I mean, if everything's progressing well and the health is
showing up again, I don't think he's going to go
out through with any mental adhesions like holding back. He's
proven himself he can't. He can't come back from the surgery.
And I'd almost believe if he's probably thinking to himself,
if this happens again, okay, I'll just become a position player.
He's already probably thought that all the way through, knowing
(36:52):
that he can be that. And furthermore, I mean, obviously
can't get paid more than he's been paid. So if
there's any kind of concerns about his future regarding financial security,
that's always been solved performance wise this year, they're going
to take very good care of him pitching wise. It's
like the once a week schedule. I'm sure they already
(37:12):
have an innings limit in mind, and part of that's
going to be the fact that he's going to be
able to perform in the postseason, because they can almost surely,
you know, work towards that and knowing that they're going
to be in the postseason. So for me, in a
situation like that, you work backward. You look at the
last World Series game and where you think he's going
to be standing, and you move the schedule back, and
that's when you start building up his innings and you
(37:35):
can really map it out almost like a rehab assignment
all the way through the World Series. I would bet
that's going to be part of the outlay of Fansively speaking,
they may be a little bit more cautious, you know,
with him playing.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
Maybe the day after.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
He pitches or the day before he pitches, something like
that may pop up a little bit too, But overall,
I think you know he'll throw the ball well again.
Is the one thing that can be impacted, quite frankly,
might be his command. I know, coming off the last
time when I first saw him, command wasn't good. And
then when he really got well in health, elp a
sudden wow, fastball started going where he wanted to. Once
(38:07):
fastball started going where he wanted to, then everything else
took off from that. I keep an eye on his
command coming out of this whole thing, but i'd work
it backwards as a pitcher from the last game of
the series two when you want to start his clock.
And like I said, the position player wise, they have
enough other guys. I think they might be a little
bit more conservative, and I don't think you're going to
skim run nearly as often as you did last year.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, he's not stealing fifty bases, we know that.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
I think he's I think his is putting a lot
on him, but he's showing you o Tani. I think
he's getting back to where he was pretty darn quickly.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
Joe. I mean, you know how hard of a worker
he is.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
He's so process oriented, and you know the history I
have seen with these Tommy John surgeries. His actually wasn't
specifically Tommy John, but it's similar procedure. Those guys who
are most dedicated to the rehab, which is very boring
and tedious, are those are the guys who come back
better than ever, or at least get back to the
same level.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
And you know, shoe.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
He wants to be the best player in the world world.
He wants to do everything at an absolute elite level.
And I think we tend to forget what a dominating
pitcher he was before this surgery. And you're right, I
think I don't think anybody on the Dodger staff is
going to throw more than say, one hundred and thirty innings.
Nobody They're gonna use a six man rotation extra days.
(39:21):
They have a lot of pictures with injury histories they
have to be careful with anyway. So I do think
he by the end of the season, especially, I like
your point about his command.
Speaker 2 (39:30):
I think he is dominant.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
And if you give me snell Sasaki Tawi, Glasnew, I mean,
who's beating that team? They throw out a number one
starter every day in a postseason series.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
Plus they've dog been at their bullpen two And the
thing is that they got like the Kansas City Chiefs, Chip,
I mean, they got players that are able to and
willing two and one two win on an annual basis.
Even though the Chiefs didn't pull off three getting for
three in a row to the final, we did three
nlcs's with the Cubs. While I was there fifteen, sixteen,
(40:04):
and seventeen, and I thought that was a pretty good achievement.
But get to the World Series three years in a
row or get to the Super Bowl three years in
a row not an easy thing to do.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
You definitely have to have the right group.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
We talked about the Yankees in the past, to go
back to the seventies, oaklan A's or even the Cincinnati
Reads those groups, there's got to be a dynamic group
of players that really not only are good, but they're
convicted to winning their level all level five guys, probably
big egos, probably charismatic, and hate to lose. I mean,
these are the kind of things that you have to have.
(40:39):
Were first time I was first time passion. You got
to somehow trick your body and mind into feeling that
on an annual basis. After you've been so successful and
you've done the victory lapse and everybody's telling you how
great you are, you got to go back to camp
next year and just act as though it never happened
and you're doing it for the first time all over again.
Those are the kind of players and personalities that are
(40:59):
able to repeat starts with Like an Andy Reid, you
can see it on the sidelines or Belichick example, So
that's I think they have that capabilities the Dodgers do,
So you're you're probably right about that last pointing. Again,
I'm always concerned about command, like when Show Hey, when
I saw him, like I said, when I first got
their man, who's bouncing his fastball a lot, was really
(41:20):
not very confident with his pitching. And then eventually the
next season came back and was just like, who.
Speaker 4 (41:25):
Is this guy? It was just it was dotting it up.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
So let's let's just watch fastball command and try to
figure it out after that.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Yeah, and I should mention also as well Yoshinobu Yamamoto,
who I think is going to be even better with
his second year in MLB and he was really good
by the end.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Of last season.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
So all eyes on the Dodgers as camps open up
this week, Joe, how about that camp's opening up. The
Dodgers are just that they're the it team, right, They're
like the Yankees of the late nineties, loaded with stars
everywhere they go. There are stories abounding with the LA Dodgers.
The definitely I would think the team to beat, just
because they're defending champions, but they're absolutely loaded. So Joe,
(42:06):
we've reached the ninth inning here. You always bring us
home with some words of wisdom. What do you have
today with our Eagles as Super Bowl fifty nine champions?
Speaker 4 (42:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (42:17):
I was actually had that in mind, and it stirred
me towards this.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
I was was looking for conviction, That's what I was
looking for.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
And Gerta Johann Wolfkean gang bon Gerte, who has some
really good stuff if you look up his quotes, and
I thought this was really pertinent. It actually applies to
vic and I think you and I too. I will
listen to anyone's convictions, but keep your doubts to yourself.
I'm looking at the conviction of the way the Eagles
played that game. They didn't care, they didn't care what
(42:44):
everybody's saying about the Chiefs and how great there the
repeat and all this other stuff. And I even read
where people were concerned that pat Riley, I guess did
pat rally coined the phrase three peat?
Speaker 4 (42:54):
And then he did it? Yeah, okay, so think yous
have to get paid for that.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
But I was really I saw such conviction again, Eagles
in general, hurst played a great game they all played wonderfully.
Wide receivers were good, but at defense really set the
tone for that game yesterday. So they're gonna listen to
anyone's convictions, but keep your doubts to yourself. We know,
we know we're going to do this, we know we
(43:20):
have the right game plan. We know if we punch
them in the face early, it's going to change. And
that's exactly what they did yesterday. So praise be to them.
I mean, that's that's a great job on the Eagles
part now and again, personally, I'm very happy for coach Fangio.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Congrats to the Eagles.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
And with the NFL season over, you know what that means,
time to break out the baseballs and the bats. Joe
Spring Training welcome.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
And the Also the tailor made TP five's I've kind
of the high visibility TP five just in case you're
getting the rough really help.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Yeah, Hey, great job. We'll see you next time on
the Book of Joe.
Speaker 4 (43:56):
All right, brothers, see you later, man.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
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