April 21, 2025 • 58 mins
Raymond Ibrahim is an American author, translator, columnist, critic of Islam, and a former librarian. Today he joins the show to discuss the true history of The Crusades, heroic stories of defending the Christian faith, and why young men today should study their history and reconnect with their strength for defending their values.
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 - Intro
00:57 - How David Discovered Raymond's Work
02:52 - The Muslim Invasion Before The Crusades
16:27 - The Heroic Story of The Reconquista
24:21 - Christian Strength
35:00 - The Current Collapse of Europe
41:31 - Who Should Young Men Study?
46:51 - Defending Your Beliefs
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Are you willing to fight for what you believe in? Well, today,
our guest Raymond Ibraham tells the historical reality of the
battle of Christendom against assaults. These men were willing to
go toe to toe against another ideological jahad in order
to save the West. Don't miss this on the David
(00:21):
Rutherford Show. Raymond, my man, thank you so much for
taking time out of your incredibly busy schedule of lecturing
all over the country, all over the world to come
on the show and join us to discuss some incredible
wisdom and knowledge that you've accrued over your adult life
(00:44):
as to the power of Christendom and what it means
for societies. And I just can't thank you enough for
join us.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
That's my pleasure, David. I'm very happy to be with you.
Thank you great.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
You know, just before we get started, I just wanted
to get the audience.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Man.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
You know where I first discovered Raymond was during my
time right after working for the CIA when Libya went down.
Part of the spin that came out of that was
the government and powers, in particular Hillary Clinton had suggested
that all of this took place as a result of
(01:24):
these videos online that had sparked this outrage, and after
further digging in, we realized that all of that was
just a fabricated lie. These were pre planned attacks. If
you're paying attention to Sarah Adams, who's on Sean Ryan
all the time, my best friend, or better yet, you've
listened or paid attention to Raymond for as long as
(01:46):
I have, you realize that that's not the case. And
what I just want to say, thank you for the
work you did to debunk that and to prove what
my buddies were saying, not only in their book Thirteen Hours,
what they've testified to that this was pre playing, it
was stage and it was coming, and so that that
really made a huge impact on me. And I appreciate
(02:09):
your stance to bring out the truth in that particular
incident too.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, my pleasure. That's such a long time ago, but
I do distinctly recall, you know, there was one of
the advantages of being bilingual and knowing Arabic and watching
Arabic media and reading Arabic literature is you actually get
the unvarnished truth while you're hearing a completely different spinning
English in America, and I was hearing way before that
(02:33):
movie supposedly came out to upset Muslims that they were
planning on this major protest. And then, of course, as
you say, I recall the Obama administration, Hillary Clinton trying
to pit it on some no name movie maker who
apparently upset Muslims by some nonsense. So yeah, unfortunately, there's
a lot of that going on.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
All right, Raymond. So the thing I'd love to have
you do is to provide some context for folks out there,
because I think what's taken place and a lot of
the history books and the way history is taught is
that somehow these crusades kind of launched out of these
Christian crusades, launched out of nowhere to go back and
conquer the Holy Land, where where the opposite is actually true,
(03:15):
there had been hundreds of years of jahad waged against Christendom,
not only in the ancient cities of where Christianity original,
but making its way all the way up into Europe.
So would you provide a little context as to the
magnitude and the savagery that was involved in those initiatives.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Absolutely, David. And you you know, you hit on the
most important point when it comes to the crusades, which
is that they're always presented nowadays in a vacuum. In
other words, And I'll give you a perfect example. I've
almost memorized this quote from a professor, from a Georgetown
professor where I actually went before, over twenty years ago.
His name is John Esposito, and he's supposed to be
(03:57):
an expert on Islamic history, et cetera, et cetera, many both.
He's a consultant for you know, intelligence departments, FBIS, CIA, Military, Pentagon.
And in one of his books, I'm slightly paraphrasing it,
but it's almost verbatim, he says something like five centuries
of peaceful coexistence elapsed between Christians and Muslims before an
(04:18):
imperial papal power play. Letis, centuries of so called holy
wars that have left an enduring legacy of mistrust and
resigning from Muslims to Christians. Okay, So what he's saying
is that right before the first crusade was called in
ten ninety five, you had nothing but pure peace between
Muslims and Christians. Okay, So obviously if you believe that,
(04:39):
and as you can see, that's what they peddle, you're
gonna to it's the Crusades. The first Crusade at least
is going to come off as a completely unwarranted offensive
campaign against peaceful Muslims. All right, So what really happened? Okay, Now,
let's go back. He mentioned the five Centuries, which essentially
is going way back to the time of Muhammad was born.
(05:00):
But basically by the time Mohammad dies and the Arabian
peninsulas consolidated under Islamic rule and the First and Second
and Third Colleagues, etc. You have what's known in history
as the Great Arab Conquests, where they spread out and conquer.
Now most people again, because this is part of the spin,
don't realize that the lands that they conquered, the lands
(05:22):
that we know today in North Africa and the Middle East, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Jordan,
Iraq and of course Egypt and Libya and Algeria, Tunisia, Moracle,
all of that was not just Christian, it was more
Christian than Europe. That was really the heart of a
Christian world at the dawn of Islam in the seventh century,
at the time of these Arab conquests that I'm referring to,
(05:45):
and if you look at the sources which I've done
the primary sources from both sides Muslims and Christians that
are the other contemporary, earliest sources, it was essentially just
mass destruction, and from a Muslim side, it's definitely described
as ad okay, So they're conquering the infidel according to
the principles that we know. You give them non Muslim
(06:06):
three choices, convert or become a you know, you pay
tribute and you're then me and your second class that
is in the center, are you fight to the desk okay.
So that's how it's definitely presented in the Islamic sources
and in the Christian sources it's just seen as mass
destruction and chaos and enslave, massacres, destruction, ritual destruction of churches.
And that's how you know, actually even from the Christian side,
(06:28):
because they still didn't know this is very early who
these Musclims are and what they want, but it comes
out in the sources that there is definitely an ideological
component because they were very much attacking crosses and churches
and going out of their way to desecrate them. So Phryness,
the Bishop of Jerusalem, who was actually living at the
time around six thirty seven actually says all this so
(06:51):
long story short one from a century after Muhammad's desh
the traditional date being six thirty two AD. And now
reach seventh two and excuse me, this Alan is now
conquered all of North Africa, those countries I mentioned, Egypt, Morocco,
and all of the Middle East. It was known as
Greater Syria. Greater Syria essentially encompassed those other countries Lebanon
(07:13):
and Israel, et cetera. And now there and they've conquered Spain,
which we'll get into in the year seven to eleven.
And now in seven thirty two they're in the middle
of France where you have the famous Battle of Tours,
the yeah, or the Battle of Poitier and Charles Martel,
and it's it's known as what you know, an epic
great victory. I have a whole chapter about it in
(07:35):
one of my books, stored in Scimitar, chapter three, I think,
because it is that pivotal and.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
That's my favorite one. I love that book.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Thank you, thank you, And okay, so there it is
so in the you know, I just mentioned that quote
from John Esposito, A five peaceful cost center. You know,
centuries had elapsed before those evil crusaders, and just in
the first century, three quarters of Christendom, the older, richer,
more sophisticated, more important section was completely destroyed and annexed
(08:03):
and Islamized. So apparently that's that's part of the five
centuries of peaceful coexistence comparatory, Okay, And we can get
into a lot of details of what happened, but I'm
going to try to fast forward, you know, in the
year ten oh nine, so I'm already talking about you know,
we ended at seven thirty two. Between seven thirty two
and the eleventh century, you have now the all of
Mediterranean nations or a sorry islands get conquered. And it's
(08:26):
again it's the same thing. It's depredations. You have mass
slavery going on, you know of the Berbers. The way
the sources talk about it, it sounds like a mass slave
campaign especially, and then so ten or nine. The reason
I brought that up is again to underscore just what
was happening before the first Crusade. And here you have
a Fatimi at Khalif Shia Khalif. People don't forget that
(08:48):
in Egypt was actually ruled by Shia's for a couple
of centuries or even more. Actually, and that even Luzar
it's an ironic fact. ALUs are this great bastion of
sunny learning. The greatest colle Islamic Sunni college in the
entire world was founded as a Shia school. And people
don't realize that I find that interesting anyway. That khalifh
(09:12):
Hackenbomera laws his name in ten oh nine, according to
Muslim sources, destroyed thirty thousand churches in Egypt and Syria
Greater Syria, which once again emphasizes and shows you how
Christian those regions were, and also gives you an idea
of the sorts of persecution that was going on. Alongside
the destruction of the churches was again persecution against Christians
(09:35):
as well as Jews, and all sorts of taxations, making
them wear m like ten pound crosses around their necks
and they have to write dn keys backwards, and all
sorts of humiliating injunctions and whatnot. So again, I only
this is just these are I'm just giving you slight examples.
There's many, many more of what was happening that completely
flies in the face of the characterization that there was
(09:58):
nothing but peace between Muslims Christians until those pesky crusaders
came along, okay, and then okay, so let's fast forward
some more. Then around the middle of the eleventh century
of the rise of the Turks, specifically the Celjic Turks
who were imported originally as slave soldiers, and they essentially
take over the Abbassid Caliphate and they keep the caliph
(10:20):
as a figurehead. And this goes off for a long time.
But if you look at the sources at this time,
the you know, we know about the Armenian genocide at
the hands of the Turks around the twentieth century and
the late nineteenth century, but it really went on it
started a thousand years earlier, because if you look at
the sources, and I'm specifically thinking of Matthew of Edessa,
(10:43):
a contemporary, he basically documents how those Turks came rushing
in from the east and entered Anatolia or Asia Minor,
which is now Turkey, and where you had a huge
Armenian population, and the record just talk about the sack
and destruction and massacre of tens of thousands of Christians,
(11:04):
end the enslavement of even more, and the ritual desecration
and destruction of churches and crosses. So just in one city, Annie,
which was the capital of Armenia at the time. This
is maybe I think around ten sixty five, the Muslim
Turks Celgics. It was known as the City of one
thousand and one Churches, and they rictually destroyed all one
(11:26):
thousand and one churches and destroyed all the cruis and
fixes except for one very large gilded cross which they
sent as a trophy of war to Bagdad, once again
underscoring the ideological component that this wasn't just war between
two groups, that this was literally a jihad against the Infidel.
So this is now going on, and then in the
(11:47):
year ten seventy one, about six years later, you have
the famous Battle of Mansukert, also featured in my Bookswort
in Sumitar because it's a very decisive battle where the
Turks defeated the Eastern Roman Empire and the Byzantines they
call them. And after that, you know, all resistance collapses
in Asia Minor in the Church are running amuck all
the way westward through Asia Minor until they're essentially right
(12:09):
across from Constantinople. And so this is the background of
the First Crusade, and at the same time the Turks
were also because pilgrimage to the Holy Land had always
gone on, and even after the initial Muslim conquest Jerusalem
was conquered in six thirty seven, even at that point
pilgrimage is continued, and most Muslim rulers were smart enough
to allow it because they completely taxed and extorted the
(12:32):
visiting Christians from Europe to come visit the Holy sites
in Jerusalem and elsewhere. And even then they were attacked
and killed by the populace, et cetera. But during the
time I'm describing the rise of the Turks, it was
extremely horrific the abuses that the Turks were inflicting on
European pilgrims. And one of them is actually very well known.
(12:53):
It's around also, i think the year ten sixty five
when Annie was being sacked, and it's recorded in at
least one well documented source where you have an eyewin
is talking about how they actually it was a large
German pilgrimage go to the Holy Land, and among them
was a very she's described as a very beautiful, but
a nun who was a very chase nun. And you know,
(13:15):
I think she's an abbyss actually, and they took her
and originally gang raped her in front of everyone until
she died. Okay, And then the chronicler ends it by saying,
and the Turks did sort these sorts of abuses all
the time against our people, such as the backdrop and
the impetus and motivation for the First Crusade. So if
you listen to what Pope Urban and Peter the Hermit
(13:37):
and all the preachers of the First Crusade, this is
what they were talking about. If you read the letters
that the Emperor Alexius, Eastern Roman emperor sent to the
West appealing for aid, that's what he described, Okay, what
I just described. And even more, you know, they talk
about how they would go into the churches, the Turks
and split open people and tie their testines to the
(13:58):
you know, coal, and with them till they die. They
would circumcise boys and throw the blood and baptismal fonts,
et cetera, et cetera. At which point Pope Arroun finally
said it, you know, who's going to address an avenge
and redress these wrongs, And which point the famous line
deos voltz came out. God Wills it and all the
(14:20):
all the Franks and Christians who heard it committed to
the First Crusade. So that's what really was happening leading
to the First Crusade, even though we are told and
most people think that there was nothing but peaceful coexistence
amongst Muslims and Christians until those evil, pesty Catholics decided
to go and ruin it all.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
It's it's staggering to me, you know how easily history
is manipulated. But that's been the case, I mean forever,
right to the Victor of the Spoils, and and and
what what what really? I think for me as as
a Christian and I'm a relatively new Christian. I got
saved in two thousand, you know, on a trip right
before I went out to Afghanistan. I was about ready
(15:04):
to have my first child. And I you know, i'd
been struggling with my faith since I left the teams
and trying because I knew that God was watching out
for me, I just didn't know how to how to
accept it and what to do with it. And so
it was this battle that took place with me because
I didn't understand the history and and and even though
I was able to, you know, read the New Testament
(15:28):
and read the Old Testament. You know, as a young man,
I didn't know how to decipher that or where to
find it. And so it I think it really comes
down to these, you know, unique stories of individuals that
really kind of flip or change the ability for people
to become emotionally invested in the past or the history
(15:50):
their legacy or lineage. And and you know, once I
got saved, I got deeper and deeper. I found you
in two thousand and twelve, started following paying attention and
was like, oh my god, you know, this is what
all my buddies during the g wat, you know, them
with those tattoos like like Secretary Hegseth and you know,
(16:11):
I don't even know five or six friends that had
the Jerusalem Cross across their whole backs and they and
they would look at me and they'd be like, hey,
rut Man, you need to know your history if you're
going to be a Christian. I go, I'm not even
sure what that means. What do you you know? And
so what I would love for you to do. And
one of the things that I think one of the
places that I've been inspired was the story of the
(16:34):
Reconquista in Spain, which is, you know, if you know,
hopefully you'll you can do it a much you know,
better description than I can. But it was this small
pocket of Christians that were like, hey, if we don't
rise up, it's over for us. We will be permanently
conquered forever. And I just want, you know, for you
to share that story and that movement and the impact
(16:58):
that it has as what I want, you know, young
Christian men out there or even young men who who
are who believe in the Western the beauty of Western culture,
and it's emergent because it was directly correlated to Christian them,
you know, to give them something they can lean into.
So would would you talk about Spain a little bit
(17:19):
for us?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah? Absolutely, And all you said, I agree with. You know,
there's and maybe we'll get into it, but uh, it's
really a concerted effort to divorce modern day Christian men
from their rich, robust, muscular heritage and convince them that
if you want to be a good Christian, you have
to be a doormat and anything other than that is
(17:41):
you know, you're you're an evil hypocrite. Okay, And that's
a that's its own very important topic of which at
some point we can address. But as far as the
Riconkista and the story that you're referring to, this is
you know, I always say it, but you know the
famous uh saying, which is history is a stranger than fiction.
In this case, history is way more dramatic than fiction.
(18:03):
And the story will which I'll quickly summarize, this could
be such a blockbuster movie. And they don't even have
to exaggerate. They don't have to. You know, the script
is written and it's called the Historical Records and the Chronicles. Yeah,
but basically, yeah, basically, as I was eluding earlier in
the year seven eleven, the Muslims finally having conquered all
(18:24):
of North Africa, and now they're in Morocco or Mauritania.
They now across the Straits and they're in Spain and
they conquer it. And of course Spain at this point
is a Christian nation ruled by the Visi Goth or
the Western Goths, who are Christians, and they beat them,
they destroy them, they ouse them, and they essentially take over.
(18:46):
Now well, you know, think of the Peninsula of Spain.
If you split it looks like a swear if you
split it in four, the northwestern, the top left, and
not all of it, but just a very very small
rthern portion, which is very rugged, mountainous, you know, in
temperate whether or not a great place. So most Christians
(19:08):
were conquered and they became subjects of the Muslim invaders
as they became known the Moors. But a very very
small pocket actually fled a sort of resistance group and
lived in the mountains. And you know, depending on the sources.
According to the Muslim sources, it was something like twelve,
you know Christians. One of them who became their king
(19:29):
is Pelagius or Paleo, and he's sort of you know,
he's the founder essentially of the resistance movement against the
Muslim conquest of the Spains. So they're hold up literally
in a cave. And according to El Macari, who's one
of the primary Muslim historians of this time, like I said,
(19:49):
they're just a small group, and the Muslims tried to
oust them, but it was just too difficult in that terrain,
and they said, what are ten or twelve Christians? Let
them rot? And from that uh and the Christians themselves Pelagious.
So at one point during the conflict, before they said
let them rot, they had a parley at the cave.
And one of the and the men who parleyed with
(20:11):
Pelagius was actually some bishop who had succumbed to Islamic
rule and was now you know then me and sort of,
you know, a henchman for the Muslims. He went there
to try to cajole them and say, you know, don't resist,
join us. And Pelagius resisted, and he said, and he
basically likened their little cave to the mustard seed in
(20:31):
the in the parable of Christ, which grows into a
great kingdom. Okay, And he said, from this tiny mustard seed,
which you're mocking, we're going to come back. And they
did century after century. So from that small seed you
had very a very few small in the northwestern quadrant. Again,
Christian kingdoms developed, and you know, they and the whole
(20:52):
thing between them was war with the Muslims. And this
is the riconet, the riconquista, and it starts slowly and
slowly they start moving southward and southward. But even before that,
you know, they were still in the cave and whatnot,
the Muslims were waging and sending two annual campaigns. According
to you know, the Sharia, you have to go and devastate,
(21:15):
and they would go and devastate and take as many
slaves as they could and kill. So this is a
I always called Spain as something of a microcosm of
the perennial gihad between Christendom and Islam. It was all
concentrated there. People often think of the Holy Land and
the Crusades, and justifiably so, but really if you look
at Spain, it was all there and one encapsulated, you know,
(21:36):
closed off, sort of like I said, microcosm. So it
was a continuous warfare and it begins the Ricoquista there.
Depending on the dates. Some actually say the real formal
date is in ten eighty five when Toledo is conquered.
Toledo is essentially right in the heart of Spain, and
it was the old Visigothic capital, so when it was
taken from the Muslims, this was a real watershed moment.
(21:59):
And at any rate, it was the same thing, and
they continued warring constantly, and you know, you get all
these now savage while the Berber Islamic fanatical groups that
come from Africa, who are essentially Isis. They're actually described
as dressed in black and all you sees their eyes
and all they do is scream, you know it tell
heat or jihadis slogans essentially, and they come and they
(22:21):
create mountains of heads, pyramids of Christian heads, and there's
wars and this goes on, you know, So seven eleven
is a conquest. Soon thereafter you have the Mountain Pelagius
and the resistance begins. And basically this goes on until
fourteen ninety two, so we're talking over seven hundred years.
All right, this is how long it took Spain to
(22:42):
rid itself of invading Islam and all the depredations. Cordobo,
which we hear of is this great, you know, bastion
of multiculturalism. Again, this is how the historians like to
present it, or some of them anyway. Was actually a
massive slave emporium for the entire Muslim world because it
was a base in Spain in Europe, and they preferred
(23:03):
fair skinned slaves, so it was from that base that
they would get northern slaves from Spain and also from
Europe all throughout Europe. So that was much of its
wealth was the slave trade. You know then anyway, and
you fast forward all the way, like I said, it's
the fourteen ninety two and Ferdinand and Elizabeth Isabella and
(23:24):
then you know that's and even then that's not the
end of it, because essentially Granada the final bastitat of Islam,
the southern tip is captured, and then the Muslims have
uprisings and for centuries they're now pretending to be Christians
and engaging in what's called takea but their heart's still
with Islam and we can get into that. But anyway,
that is the story of its heroic resistance self sacrifice.
(23:47):
I write about it a lot in both my books
because it is, like you said, one of the most
pivotal moments, and it's one of those things, like I said,
imagine you can make what a blockbuster movie that would
be of just throical resistance, but they will never do
that because the resistance is from Christians fighting Muslims who
are conquering their lands. And that's not the Those are
(24:08):
all topics that nobody wants to touch. It was the
opposite of it was Christians terrorizing and killing Muslims. Of course,
that would be all over and Muslims could be presented
as heroes. Yeah, that would be a major movie. But
such as it is, it won't.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Oh man, I completely concur with that, you know. I
I think about, you know, as a kid, and and
what were the things that really were inspiring me? And
I can't imagine if if there had been more movies
that really talked about that historically for me, you know,
in the seventies growing up. You know, I'm I'm it's
(24:42):
all you know, the World War Two movies, right, it's
a bridge too far, it's uh uh, you know those movies.
And then you know, it's also the the other concepts
of you know, American past our, American past of in
the United States and the conquest.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
One of the things, you know, what, what why do
kids always play you know, Cowboys and Indians is because
you grew up during those times and now you're like, yeah, man,
we you know these people, these trappers in particular, I
just read an article yesterday about how Scottish immigrants in
the you know, sixteen hundreds would join forces with Native
(25:22):
Americans and integrate into their tribes and in order to
you know, understand the Savage West. And you know, so
there's all this history that had I been exposed to
as a young man, would have driven me, in my opinion,
closer to faith because I would have said, all right,
oh man, I you know, because one of the things
(25:43):
that I think I struggled with after leaving the teams
was all right, I need to I need to, you know,
put that away, you know, I need to put that
that warrior mindset off to the side, so I can,
you know, integrate into society where when you're I mean
just the time you're talking about, from what's seven eleven
(26:04):
to fourteen ninety two and even beyond. You know, Christians
have been fighting for their place in the world, for
their place in their own lands against a never ending assault.
Right and if I had seen that, and if I
had seen, you know, something powerful like that, what that
would have done. It would have, I think, strengthened my
(26:25):
face therefore strengthened my culture, and strengthen my confidence of
where I come from and who I am. So I agree.
Now there is there is a I think a little
bit of a gouge out there that Mel Gibson is
making a movie about the Siege at Malta. I'm hoping
that's a true and it's not just internet nonsense. But
(26:45):
maybe that'll crack the case right and get started for us.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Actually, you just said please, I'd like to elaborate because
you you really, you really brought up some very important
points which resonate with me. When I was a younger
man as well, especially, I always thought like, if I
want to be a good Christian, I have to essentially
be a woman, you know, I have to be so
emasculated and anything that I had a natural proclivity for.
(27:13):
You know, I've always enjoyed medieval warfare and the image
of a night and warriors from multi members.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Remember the movie ex Caliber, back from the old days.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
First.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Lady of the Lake, Like, I must, dude, if I dude,
I don't know how many off the time, RAYM and
I come out and I'll go just be sitting there
and my kids will be around. I'll go on all
notth rock with bus, but dude, hell right, and they'll
be like, what the hell are you saying. I'm like,
it's it's the sorcery. Yeah, I'm sorry, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
And but there's this kind of like thing in the culture,
especially again, if you want to be a Western Christian,
where like that's bad, that's you know, you're you're, that's
that's evil. You have to be a doormat. That's the
only thing I've since come to that this is actually
all by design.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Quick interruption from this incredible interview with Raymond, just to
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Speaker 2 (28:12):
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Speaker 2 (29:00):
There's this kind of like thing in the culture, especially
again if you want to be a Western Christian, where
like that's bad, that's you know, you're you're, that's that's evil.
You have to be a dormat. That's the only thing
I've since come to learn that this is actually all
by design. You know, if you're an enemy of Christianity,
the number one thing that you're gonna want to do
is convince Christians that the religion begins and ends with
(29:21):
turning the other cheek, Okay, and it doesn't. Is that
a component of Christianity, of course, but it's very much
balanced with something else. And that's you know, the classic
idea of heresy. The meaning is you take one aspect
of teachings and ignore the rest. And so that's really
what's going on. They've they've convinced Christians, you know, you
want to be a good Christian man, then you're essentially
(29:42):
going to become a woman. Okay. You have to be
totally masculated. You have to you know, reject any kind
of militancy or anything like that, because that's all evil.
That's evil Crusaders. And this, by the way, is why
the Crusaders are so hated, and they must constantly and
always be demonised, because if people really know what are
all about, they're actually very attractive and something you are
(30:03):
going to gravitate towards and kind of want to emulate. Okay,
because they are heroic and they're good, and they're Christian
and they're noble and chivalries, et cetera, et cetera. So
that's why I think for decades, it's not centuries, they've
been so attacked and undermined because people who don't like Christianity.
I mentioned this sometimes, but you know, I don't know.
(30:24):
It wasn't the last Super Bowl. I think it was
one before where this is the classic example. They had
this commercial and there was no talking. All it was
was images of people washing the feet of other people, okay,
And it was, ironically enough, all the people on their
knees washing feet were white, normal traditional looking Americans, and
(30:44):
everyone getting their feet washed where okay, people of color,
Muslim wearing a turban and a woman in a hit job,
you know, a migrant who obviously in the scene is
like they just crossed the border. And it ends up
by saying something like Jesus didn't each hate, he washed
his feet. Okay. So that is the approved promoted form
(31:04):
of Christianity in the West. And if you follow that,
and that's all you do, which is your doormat, and
you turn the other cheek. And by the way, it's
easy to do all that stuff. So in a way,
it's kind of a they make a virtue of advice,
the Christians who actually embrace this, because it's easy not
to be confrontational, it's easy not to stand up for
what's right. It's easy to be a doormat and let
(31:26):
people walk all over you. So, but that is the
kind of thing that's being approved, and you can see
why it is so unattractive and why so many men
fall away from Christianity rightfully, so because that is not it.
That's not the truth the real Christianity. Yeah, you have tolerance,
you have forgiveness, but you also have cords of whips
and tables being overturned and righteous indignation and wrath, and
(31:48):
that has been completely torn us under and not part
of our Christian heritage, which the Crusaders and all these
pre modern heroic Christians definitely understood. So I think that's
you know you want to When you mentioned what you
were saying, it reminded me too of my youth and
how I just thought like, either I'm a really bad
Christian or I need to like stop liking these things.
(32:10):
And this is also why can you find Westerners who
convert to Islam, because at least it gives it room
to vents for these sorts of masculine traits. And if
you feel like the only thing you know, Christianity all
offers is beeping and acting like a woman and being
a doormat, Yeah, I get it for how that so
many men just can't tolerate that it's so against their nature. Anyway,
(32:34):
that was a little ranked that you've sort of god
to my mind.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I'm glad you said it. You know what I found
fascinating is that you know, you've got this beautiful Egyptian descent, right,
you grew up speaking Arabic and English, and so you
can read the language. So it's not as if, you know,
you're interpreting it through all those different you know, translations
that either diluted or whatever the message or protected the message,
(33:01):
if you will. But you know, I certainly have spent
my fair share in Muslim lands in particular most of
the time I spent I spent in Afghanistan, and and
you know I worked with a ton of different interpreters
and from different sets and different uh you know background,
Shia and Sunni, and you know, have numerable friends that
(33:23):
uh you know, have worked with all of them different
in Iraq and all over Africa, you name it. And
and you know what what what I always you know,
extrapolated from their stance when I would press them, because
when I was doing that, I was going through this
time in my life trying to figure out what it
meant to be a Christian? Can't I be a warrior
(33:44):
and a Christian too? And it's because I had no background.
I had no understanding of the knowledge that you have,
the wisdom that you have from our background. And so
I would hear these men talk to me in earnestness
because they have a tendency any culture that's been in
war for as long as the Afghans have, they talk
in real terms and their perceptions and terms that are
(34:09):
imbued with the presence of violence, right eye for an eye.
And and so what I remember respecting most about their
stance and their faith was the strength that they imbued
in them, the masculinity that emerged from their faith. And
I had a profound respect for that. And I think
(34:30):
we're seeing that, you know, kind of rise again. And
we're seeing that rise again in areas that had, you know,
traditionally been predominantly Christian and nature. And when you look
at at Western Europe and you look at you know,
you look at Britain, and you look at or England,
and you look at Ireland. Man, you see there's I
(34:52):
think this confidence collapse that's taking place because of the
profound amount of immigration that's happened. When you look at
what's going on in Europe and to a certain extent
in America. You know, there was that just that recent
thing in New Jersey that they're trying to implementary law
in a particular magistrate, you know, but you look at
(35:12):
it in particular Europe and the place where these you know,
the historical relevance of these these men that fok back
against the tyranny of Jahad. You know what is taking place?
Uh for these young men over there. What is a
way that they can reintegrate themselves as as a predominant
(35:33):
voice in their cultures in order to combat what seems
to be a growing temperature of radicalization.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Yeah, they unfortunately have a long and hard road against
them because they've gone so far back with what they've done.
And again, you know, the best way to understand is
compare and contrast their behavior with their ancestors who I
describe in you know, let's say, Defenders of the West,
and I talk about European heroes who were the exact opposite.
These were the men that we were alluding to earlier,
(36:08):
the heroes who actually gave everything they had and they
didn't have to. A lot of these men were kings
and emperors who actually left everything just to go and
fight and defend the cause of Christendom. And you know,
it's what's interesting to me, and I've said this before,
is whereas Muslims are walking in perfect continuity with their ancestors,
they still have the same mentality because it's part and
(36:30):
parcel of Islamic teaching, which is hostility for the non Muslim,
the infidel, the camper, and you know, the imperative to
conquer and subjugate, etc. And you see this from Muslims
both in the Muslim world, but even more so in
Europe because wherever you go and you have large pockets
of the Muslims, you know, think Sweden, think England, Germany, France,
(36:52):
you have problems, serious problems. Okay. But then the West,
we were talking about the defenders of the West, the Christians,
their modern descendants are actually walking in perfect discontinuity with
their ancestors. So instead of fighting tooth and nail and
resisting them, they're going out of their way to bring
them in. And I always say this, and it's just
(37:12):
it's so mind boggling when you think of it this way.
But unfortunately, too many Western people, white people, if you will,
they think of themselves as sort of, you know, as
because they look at Western nations and they see that
they're still the majority, and they think somehow, you know,
they owe it to everyone else. But in reality, if
you look at the world population, the white population is
something like four percent of the whole world. And I
(37:34):
just find it amazing that that four percent is the
one that is being obligated to open its doors to everyone,
to abnegate and disavow its heritage and its religion and
its culture and its civilization, to suppress itself. It's just amazing,
you know, you've never seen such self suicidal impetus. And
then you compare it to the earlier with the ones
(37:56):
we're talking about, the heroes, their forefathers. Little they hate
them and they don't want to talk about them, the crusaders,
and they want to suppress them. Because they're doing the
exact opposite. Whereas the first guys, the heroes, were fighting
for the cause of Christiandom and Christianity, fighting for their
cultures and their civilization, these Europeans, at least their leaders,
(38:17):
are doing everything possible to destroy their people. I mean,
when you look at it, when I hear stories coming
out of England, the attack on free speech that you
can't even say the truth and you're gonna get It's
just I don't get how the English people don't realize
they've become slaves, Okay, and it doesn't matter if they
think those people are elected officials or not. It's one
(38:38):
big charade at this point when they're doing what they're
doing and so obvious. Wow. And I put in one
of my books, I have a quote from some sort
of parliamentarian in Germany, I think in Munich, Stephanie something,
and basically she gets up and says, oh, you know,
I have news for all you right wingers who are
complaining that, you know, this city or Germany mineral is
(39:00):
going to be Muslim majority in whatever years And that's
what Actually some Pew numbers pere results pupils say that
like twenty something like twenty fifty Muslims might be like
fifty percent, and she goes and that's a good thing.
I mean, think about that mentality. And I just told
you you're four percent of the world population and you're
boasting because you're that four percent in its own homeland,
(39:23):
is giving up its homeland even more. It's just it's
really a sick, almost diabolical mentality, and it's become so
pervasive that people don't notice it. It's you know, you
I always talk about the boiling frog syndrome. You know,
if you're in that, then you're boiling and boiling and boiling.
It just you don't even get it anymore. But this
is you if you can step out of reality from
(39:44):
all if people could look at what's happening in the
West and what the West is doing to itself, it's
just mind boggling. It's utterly unprecedented. But as far as
your question, you know, what, what man, you can do?
That's this is why I say it's so hard because
everything is set against them every from the way these
the models of Christianity are being demonized constantly, to the
(40:06):
fact that you can't even open your mouth without possibly
getting in trouble with the law. It's the system is
not going to work for them. Okay, the bottom line
is doing it the normal way at the voting poll
or the voting booth, it's not going to work because
the whole thing is at this point rig But at
the same time, you know, I was telling you, why
do they actually try to emasculate men and Christians. There's
(40:28):
a reason that they want to hear in the West.
You know, they want to convince every boy that he's
a little girl. And it's not just perversion, which it is,
but it's also if you want to rule and govern
and dominate a place, you want to do it. You
want to rule and govern a country run by women.
And if I turn every man and make him think
he's a woman essentially, and he's just given up on
(40:48):
he doesn't ever resist, I'm going to rule and control
that country. So that's I think been going on for decades,
and that's why Western men have been so emasculated, and
so even at this point, I don't think they could,
you know, get up and do what they have to do,
which is whatever is necessary, because of generations of them
being so utterly emasculated from every corner, one from kindergarten,
(41:12):
from the media, from the church that they go to. Uh,
it's become a very difficult thing. And you know it's
not very hopeful, but such as a situation, and it
might have to get worse before it gets better. Wow.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
That's heavy and and and true all of it. Everything
you said before. I let you go, Raymond, because I
know how busy you are, and again I really appreciate
your time. Is there a particular person that you a
story that you can reference or just you know, drop
that seed, right, be that sower for young men that
(41:49):
are going to watch this show, or even young women
you know that that are fascinated by what you're saying.
But is that there there's that one person in history
that if they dig into and they get going, that
they could get going and find this history and bring
it back to life and as almost a you know,
(42:10):
a crusade in their own faith, right in their own soul,
the battle that's taken being waged in their own soul.
There is there a person that you would lead to.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Yeah, actually, and maybe because we already spoke about him,
but I'll tell you why it's even about and beyond that.
But it's pellagious of Spain, of the reconquista. The man
who was in the hold Up region. And the reason
I say that is his situation was not unlike what
I just described. Think about it. His country had been
destroyed and taken over by the enemy openly, and a
(42:42):
lot of his countrymen succumbed. And and you know, we're
willing to lit as basically second class citizens of Muslims,
and they were being abused, you know, even though they
were paying their tribute. It wasn't they were. But he
then a very tiny band of the radicals who wouldn't
not dane to submit to the Yoka Islam, suffered and
(43:04):
went and lived in a cave just and they were
described like animals who are just gonna die off because
they didn't even have food, okay, and because that's how
bad the situation was. But they persevered. And like I said,
you even said the word seed right now. They they
mentioned the mustard seed. And from that tiny thing, and
even though they went through so much suffering and sacrifices,
(43:24):
it developed. It took centuries. And that's why you know,
when we talk about Europe right now, it's this even
if even if this was emulated, and something like that
would happen to sort of resistance movement. It's gonna take
a long time to you know, readjust and realign and
bring things back to normal, but it could be done.
Even these guys. Look what they did. They chose a
(43:46):
life of sacrifice for what they believe, and they actually
anchored it in Christian faith, and they fought back and
and maybe out of some other point we can talk
about just war theory, because that's a whole other issue,
you know.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Yeah, if you're well and man, I'd love to have
you back regularly to tell these stories, to bring it
back into the forefront of our consciousness here in the
States and Christian consciousness, to reinvigorate Christian men to recognize
what where they come from and the heritage. I would
love to have you back, Raymond. What's going on right
(44:22):
now in your life? Where can people find all of
your material? What where can they find your books? And
how can they follow you?
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Sure, David, The one easy quick way is just my
website Raymond Ibrahim dot com. R A Y M O
and d I B R A H I M and
all my articles are there and links to my books
and videos I've been trying to kind of cultivate a
YouTube channel, so on occasion I also make videos, and
this video will be on it as well, which is good.
(44:52):
And as far as the topics that were discussing, because
you know, I've read several books and each one deals
with something and I had it right here because I
was actually quoting from it. But anyone who's interested in
the heroic aspect here it is Defenders of the West,
the Christian heroes who stood against Islam. The story of
Pelagius is in there that I was talking about. But
(45:13):
also all these other guys who, like I said, who
just and so many of them are and you know,
like King Richard. You hear by King Richard and you
read what's written about it by modern historians, and he
just appears, like above, you know, a dirt bag, and
it's just a really bad way. You read the primary sources,
including what the Muslims said about I mean, you just
get this amazing hero, a self sacrificing king basically. So
(45:36):
there's definitely a lot of correctives that need to be done.
But yeah, if anyone's interested, I think I would recommend
that book because it really is no it's the one
that will most inspire young men to understand what it
was to become a Christian warrior.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Outstanding Raymond, I can't thank you enough, and God speed
on your journey and your message. Brother, take care.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Thank you, David, I appreciate it. Sing to you.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Another powerful, powerful message that we've had on the David
Rutherford Show really stoke. Raymond came on and shared that stuff.
What we want to also just inform you, we have
this great Patreon account where we have additional content available.
We have all this extra information. I'm going to be
teaching motivational courses in the future. I'll be giving motivational
(46:27):
live events with Q and A. Go visit us at
our Patreon site. At David Rutherford's show, It's two dollars
easy subscription fee. We got a lot of great stuff.
Did something special coming soon. We're going to announce on Wednesday,
so don't miss it. Our Patreon account. History it's one
(46:53):
of the components that I think in the modern era,
we're beginning to realize that there's a lot more to
our history than we've been allowed to understand. I think
you see it all over the Internet and all different
types of historical podcasts that are emerging, from Dan Carlin's
(47:16):
History podcast to Darryl Cooper who's constantly under salt his podcasts,
and many others. What's taking place is we're starting to
really dig in. And what you heard today from a
man that has been comprehensively dedicated to the history of
Christians in the fight to survive from Raymond Ibraham was
(47:40):
something that was powerful. And I hope you recognize that.
I hope you realize that maybe, well a lot of
what you've been told about the Crusades was just not accurate,
and that the Crusades were a result of four hundred
years of vicious, savage attacks on on a religion of peace.
(48:02):
And don't get me wrong, I have no illusion about
about other aspects. And you know, the automatic response I
typically hear was what about the Catholic Church and pedophilia
or what about the Catholic Church? And and it's it's
it's it's atrocious behavior to children and women and all
these other things. Yeah, got it. No, no one group
(48:24):
of people are are are innocent of their their sins.
That's the point of Christendom, right, that we aren't comput
We're always sitting and we That's what Christ died on
the cross for so that our sins would be forgiven.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
You know.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
The other aspect is to recognize that, you know, in
society today, there's many people that are are completely happy
in a Latin and very gracious towards other people and
their ability to you know, and their ability to allow
certain cultures to fight for what they believe in, to
(49:05):
allow Muslims to be able to stand up and consume
city blocks and have called a prayer wherever they want,
or to allow you know, israelis right which to fight
for their own sovereignty, their own existence, and the existential
threat that Israel faces every day. You know. But there's
(49:27):
a bizarre thing I think taking place where there's a
large group of people who have a problem with Christians
fighting for what they believe in. And I'm not sure
why that is as they promote others, but I know
for me, I'm proud to be a Christian. It's been
the most important thing in my life. But it's also
(49:51):
been a struggle to try and understand what about my
faith that invokes a deeper spirit, a deeper, deeper sen
of pride that I'm willing to stand toe to toe
against an enemy that wants to take me down, an
evil enemy, that negative insurgency. And so what I wanted
(50:11):
to do, you know, after this beautiful, glorious Easter weekend,
which is not about Easter egg hunts and and family dinners.
It's about, you know, the reality that that my Messiah,
my my my living God rose based on the word
of God, the good news that God loves you, and
(50:34):
that if we love our neighbors, we'll find salvation in
the afterlife. And and for that he was crucified. He
was attacked for those beliefs. I ain't much like Christians
around the world. They're being attacked now. And he was attacked,
and he was condemned, and he was nailed to that cross,
(50:56):
and he died. But he didn't die for his own sins.
He died for yours. He died for mine. And that's
something that we should bear the burden of that sacrifice.
And I think at its heart, that's what Christianity is
really about. It's the recognition that we must be willing
(51:17):
to sacrifice what we want, wish and desire for the
person that needs it, needs to be lifted up and
needs to be propped up, and said Hey, it's okay.
I forgive you, but guess what you have to get
in the fight of life. You have to be righteous
in order to achieve that salvation. And the reality was
(51:39):
he is risen, and that's the whole thing. He was crucified,
and then three days later he arose that's been under
attack since the moment had happened. And if you look
at the persecution of the apostles, you look at the
a person of persecution of the possible that I most
(52:01):
connect with in this life, and that was Saul who
became Paul. Right. This is literally a man who went
out and sought out to destroy Christians, to kill them,
to get rid of them. And through that divine invention
on the road from Damascus, you know, Christ appeared blinding
him and then he had the scales removed from his
(52:22):
eyes so he could see the truth of what Christ was,
who he is in our lives, his actions and what
they represent, which is a fight, and our salvation is
tied to that fight. And so what did Paul do? Man,
I mean three shipwrecks. He was almost stoned to dell,
he was imprisoned, and even in Rome he went to
the emperor speaking to the emperor directly and said, you know,
(52:46):
you can be saved. And what did they give him?
They gave him a dose, right, they chopped off his
head and crucified him, just like they did all the
rest of them. And so from that movement of standing
up for your beliefs, Christendom spread and spread all through
(53:06):
the Middle East, all through the areas that we now
see have been overtaken and are dominated by these different
religions and cultures. And then, you know, starting in six
point thirty four, you know, Islam established a calphate and
decided they were going to persecute Christians and get rid
(53:27):
of them, because in the very nature of it, it's
there's jahad for some is an obligation. And then for
four hundred years they went after penetrating all the way
up into France, all through Italy, all through all the
ancient world. They eradicated the oldest churches, killed millions and
(53:48):
millions of people, enslaved millions and millions of people, until
finally someone decided, I'm going to stand up and fight
for what I believe in. And from that recognition I
was able to develop some strength in my own life,
not necessarily to go out and and don my shield
(54:12):
or don my armor and wage war, but more so
to don the armor of God's love so that I
can wage war against sin, wage war against the evil
that's out there, that's corrupting young people, corrupting people, and
more importantly that it corrupted me in many different ways.
(54:34):
And I think that's the key to recognize, is that
through that strength of the Word, through those actions of Christ,
you are strong, and you're strong enough to wage a
war beyond just preaching the good news or the word.
But it's literally to take up arms if you have to,
to dig in and allow your culture to exist when
(54:57):
it's under assault, and you can't let all these other
ideas you know, infiltrate and convince you that it's not,
because for for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years
it has been under assault. So whether or not you
(55:18):
want to take the literal meaning, And you know what
does everybody always say. Everybody comes back and they say, well,
Christ was a hippie man. He didn't have an army,
he didn't go out there and persecute his enemies or
anything like that. And I'm like, yeah, that's true. And
he wanted to preach love, and if we can get
that point of love, you know there's an there's an
(55:39):
opportunity for salvation. But you know what, at twelve, he
did enter the temple and he did confront the people
that were and contra being saying contradictory things. And then
one of my favorite parts of Christ, his legacy and
his story was when he flipped the tables over. He said,
(55:59):
you know, how dare you come into the house of
the Lord and do what you're doing? Man? He flipped
those tables. So to try and generate this idea that
Christ was some weak person, I just here's what I
want you to do, is I want you to go
read the Book of Revelations because that's some powerful stuff
right there. It's an incumbent upon people when your culture
(56:29):
is under assault, or your belief systems are under assault,
that you are willing to rise up in a capacity
and don that armor and to fight for what you
believe in. So, if you're listening to this or you're
trying to understand, I beg you to go read Raymond's books,
(56:50):
The Defenders of the West, The Sword, and the Sickmutar. Right,
go read these incredible stories of the Reconquista. Go read
these incredible stories of Malta, those incredible epic battles of
the siege and Constantinople and other areas, and read your
rich history because you're part of that. If you are
a Christian, that's a part of you, and don't deny
(57:14):
that truth. Don't deny that history because that's the history
that will make you strong. Jordy and I just want
to thank you for coming and being part of our
team here at the David Rutherford Show. Please don't forget
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If they're having any impact on you or you love
(57:37):
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(58:00):
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(58:21):
Rutherford Show. You can follow us there. We'd love to
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(58:45):
posting right now and that's at Team frog Logic David
Rutherford at Team frog Logic. All right, h yeah, thank
you
Are you willing to fight for what you believe in? Well, today,
our guest Raymond Ibraham tells the historical reality of the
battle of Christendom against assaults. These men were willing to
go toe to toe against another ideological jahad in order
to save the West. Don't miss this on the David
(00:21):
Rutherford Show. Raymond, my man, thank you so much for
taking time out of your incredibly busy schedule of lecturing
all over the country, all over the world to come
on the show and join us to discuss some incredible
wisdom and knowledge that you've accrued over your adult life
(00:44):
as to the power of Christendom and what it means
for societies. And I just can't thank you enough for
join us.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
That's my pleasure, David. I'm very happy to be with you.
Thank you great.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
You know, just before we get started, I just wanted
to get the audience.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Man.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
You know where I first discovered Raymond was during my
time right after working for the CIA when Libya went down.
Part of the spin that came out of that was
the government and powers, in particular Hillary Clinton had suggested
that all of this took place as a result of
(01:24):
these videos online that had sparked this outrage, and after
further digging in, we realized that all of that was
just a fabricated lie. These were pre planned attacks. If
you're paying attention to Sarah Adams, who's on Sean Ryan
all the time, my best friend, or better yet, you've
listened or paid attention to Raymond for as long as
(01:46):
I have, you realize that that's not the case. And
what I just want to say, thank you for the
work you did to debunk that and to prove what
my buddies were saying, not only in their book Thirteen Hours,
what they've testified to that this was pre playing, it
was stage and it was coming, and so that that
really made a huge impact on me. And I appreciate
(02:09):
your stance to bring out the truth in that particular
incident too.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, my pleasure. That's such a long time ago, but
I do distinctly recall, you know, there was one of
the advantages of being bilingual and knowing Arabic and watching
Arabic media and reading Arabic literature is you actually get
the unvarnished truth while you're hearing a completely different spinning
English in America, and I was hearing way before that
(02:33):
movie supposedly came out to upset Muslims that they were
planning on this major protest. And then, of course, as
you say, I recall the Obama administration, Hillary Clinton trying
to pit it on some no name movie maker who
apparently upset Muslims by some nonsense. So yeah, unfortunately, there's
a lot of that going on.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
All right, Raymond. So the thing I'd love to have
you do is to provide some context for folks out there,
because I think what's taken place and a lot of
the history books and the way history is taught is
that somehow these crusades kind of launched out of these
Christian crusades, launched out of nowhere to go back and
conquer the Holy Land, where where the opposite is actually true,
(03:15):
there had been hundreds of years of jahad waged against Christendom,
not only in the ancient cities of where Christianity original,
but making its way all the way up into Europe.
So would you provide a little context as to the
magnitude and the savagery that was involved in those initiatives.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Absolutely, David. And you you know, you hit on the
most important point when it comes to the crusades, which
is that they're always presented nowadays in a vacuum. In
other words, And I'll give you a perfect example. I've
almost memorized this quote from a professor, from a Georgetown
professor where I actually went before, over twenty years ago.
His name is John Esposito, and he's supposed to be
(03:57):
an expert on Islamic history, et cetera, et cetera, many both.
He's a consultant for you know, intelligence departments, FBIS, CIA, Military, Pentagon.
And in one of his books, I'm slightly paraphrasing it,
but it's almost verbatim, he says something like five centuries
of peaceful coexistence elapsed between Christians and Muslims before an
(04:18):
imperial papal power play. Letis, centuries of so called holy
wars that have left an enduring legacy of mistrust and
resigning from Muslims to Christians. Okay, So what he's saying
is that right before the first crusade was called in
ten ninety five, you had nothing but pure peace between
Muslims and Christians. Okay, So obviously if you believe that,
(04:39):
and as you can see, that's what they peddle, you're
gonna to it's the Crusades. The first Crusade at least
is going to come off as a completely unwarranted offensive
campaign against peaceful Muslims. All right, So what really happened? Okay, Now,
let's go back. He mentioned the five Centuries, which essentially
is going way back to the time of Muhammad was born.
(05:00):
But basically by the time Mohammad dies and the Arabian
peninsulas consolidated under Islamic rule and the First and Second
and Third Colleagues, etc. You have what's known in history
as the Great Arab Conquests, where they spread out and conquer.
Now most people again, because this is part of the spin,
don't realize that the lands that they conquered, the lands
(05:22):
that we know today in North Africa and the Middle East, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Jordan,
Iraq and of course Egypt and Libya and Algeria, Tunisia, Moracle,
all of that was not just Christian, it was more
Christian than Europe. That was really the heart of a
Christian world at the dawn of Islam in the seventh century,
at the time of these Arab conquests that I'm referring to,
(05:45):
and if you look at the sources which I've done
the primary sources from both sides Muslims and Christians that
are the other contemporary, earliest sources, it was essentially just
mass destruction, and from a Muslim side, it's definitely described
as ad okay, So they're conquering the infidel according to
the principles that we know. You give them non Muslim
(06:06):
three choices, convert or become a you know, you pay
tribute and you're then me and your second class that
is in the center, are you fight to the desk okay.
So that's how it's definitely presented in the Islamic sources
and in the Christian sources it's just seen as mass
destruction and chaos and enslave, massacres, destruction, ritual destruction of churches.
And that's how you know, actually even from the Christian side,
(06:28):
because they still didn't know this is very early who
these Musclims are and what they want, but it comes
out in the sources that there is definitely an ideological
component because they were very much attacking crosses and churches
and going out of their way to desecrate them. So Phryness,
the Bishop of Jerusalem, who was actually living at the
time around six thirty seven actually says all this so
(06:51):
long story short one from a century after Muhammad's desh
the traditional date being six thirty two AD. And now
reach seventh two and excuse me, this Alan is now
conquered all of North Africa, those countries I mentioned, Egypt, Morocco,
and all of the Middle East. It was known as
Greater Syria. Greater Syria essentially encompassed those other countries Lebanon
(07:13):
and Israel, et cetera. And now there and they've conquered Spain,
which we'll get into in the year seven to eleven.
And now in seven thirty two they're in the middle
of France where you have the famous Battle of Tours,
the yeah, or the Battle of Poitier and Charles Martel,
and it's it's known as what you know, an epic
great victory. I have a whole chapter about it in
(07:35):
one of my books, stored in Scimitar, chapter three, I think,
because it is that pivotal and.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
That's my favorite one. I love that book.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Thank you, thank you, And okay, so there it is
so in the you know, I just mentioned that quote
from John Esposito, A five peaceful cost center. You know,
centuries had elapsed before those evil crusaders, and just in
the first century, three quarters of Christendom, the older, richer,
more sophisticated, more important section was completely destroyed and annexed
(08:03):
and Islamized. So apparently that's that's part of the five
centuries of peaceful coexistence comparatory, Okay, And we can get
into a lot of details of what happened, but I'm
going to try to fast forward, you know, in the
year ten oh nine, so I'm already talking about you know,
we ended at seven thirty two. Between seven thirty two
and the eleventh century, you have now the all of
Mediterranean nations or a sorry islands get conquered. And it's
(08:26):
again it's the same thing. It's depredations. You have mass
slavery going on, you know of the Berbers. The way
the sources talk about it, it sounds like a mass slave
campaign especially, and then so ten or nine. The reason
I brought that up is again to underscore just what
was happening before the first Crusade. And here you have
a Fatimi at Khalif Shia Khalif. People don't forget that
(08:48):
in Egypt was actually ruled by Shia's for a couple
of centuries or even more. Actually, and that even Luzar
it's an ironic fact. ALUs are this great bastion of
sunny learning. The greatest colle Islamic Sunni college in the
entire world was founded as a Shia school. And people
don't realize that I find that interesting anyway. That khalifh
(09:12):
Hackenbomera laws his name in ten oh nine, according to
Muslim sources, destroyed thirty thousand churches in Egypt and Syria
Greater Syria, which once again emphasizes and shows you how
Christian those regions were, and also gives you an idea
of the sorts of persecution that was going on. Alongside
the destruction of the churches was again persecution against Christians
(09:35):
as well as Jews, and all sorts of taxations, making
them wear m like ten pound crosses around their necks
and they have to write dn keys backwards, and all
sorts of humiliating injunctions and whatnot. So again, I only
this is just these are I'm just giving you slight examples.
There's many, many more of what was happening that completely
flies in the face of the characterization that there was
(09:58):
nothing but peace between Muslims Christians until those pesky crusaders
came along, okay, and then okay, so let's fast forward
some more. Then around the middle of the eleventh century
of the rise of the Turks, specifically the Celjic Turks
who were imported originally as slave soldiers, and they essentially
take over the Abbassid Caliphate and they keep the caliph
(10:20):
as a figurehead. And this goes off for a long time.
But if you look at the sources at this time,
the you know, we know about the Armenian genocide at
the hands of the Turks around the twentieth century and
the late nineteenth century, but it really went on it
started a thousand years earlier, because if you look at
the sources, and I'm specifically thinking of Matthew of Edessa,
(10:43):
a contemporary, he basically documents how those Turks came rushing
in from the east and entered Anatolia or Asia Minor,
which is now Turkey, and where you had a huge
Armenian population, and the record just talk about the sack
and destruction and massacre of tens of thousands of Christians,
(11:04):
end the enslavement of even more, and the ritual desecration
and destruction of churches and crosses. So just in one city, Annie,
which was the capital of Armenia at the time. This
is maybe I think around ten sixty five, the Muslim
Turks Celgics. It was known as the City of one
thousand and one Churches, and they rictually destroyed all one
(11:26):
thousand and one churches and destroyed all the cruis and
fixes except for one very large gilded cross which they
sent as a trophy of war to Bagdad, once again
underscoring the ideological component that this wasn't just war between
two groups, that this was literally a jihad against the Infidel.
So this is now going on, and then in the
(11:47):
year ten seventy one, about six years later, you have
the famous Battle of Mansukert, also featured in my Bookswort
in Sumitar because it's a very decisive battle where the
Turks defeated the Eastern Roman Empire and the Byzantines they
call them. And after that, you know, all resistance collapses
in Asia Minor in the Church are running amuck all
the way westward through Asia Minor until they're essentially right
(12:09):
across from Constantinople. And so this is the background of
the First Crusade, and at the same time the Turks
were also because pilgrimage to the Holy Land had always
gone on, and even after the initial Muslim conquest Jerusalem
was conquered in six thirty seven, even at that point
pilgrimage is continued, and most Muslim rulers were smart enough
to allow it because they completely taxed and extorted the
(12:32):
visiting Christians from Europe to come visit the Holy sites
in Jerusalem and elsewhere. And even then they were attacked
and killed by the populace, et cetera. But during the
time I'm describing the rise of the Turks, it was
extremely horrific the abuses that the Turks were inflicting on
European pilgrims. And one of them is actually very well known.
(12:53):
It's around also, i think the year ten sixty five
when Annie was being sacked, and it's recorded in at
least one well documented source where you have an eyewin
is talking about how they actually it was a large
German pilgrimage go to the Holy Land, and among them
was a very she's described as a very beautiful, but
a nun who was a very chase nun. And you know,
(13:15):
I think she's an abbyss actually, and they took her
and originally gang raped her in front of everyone until
she died. Okay, And then the chronicler ends it by saying,
and the Turks did sort these sorts of abuses all
the time against our people, such as the backdrop and
the impetus and motivation for the First Crusade. So if
you listen to what Pope Urban and Peter the Hermit
(13:37):
and all the preachers of the First Crusade, this is
what they were talking about. If you read the letters
that the Emperor Alexius, Eastern Roman emperor sent to the
West appealing for aid, that's what he described, Okay, what
I just described. And even more, you know, they talk
about how they would go into the churches, the Turks
and split open people and tie their testines to the
(13:58):
you know, coal, and with them till they die. They
would circumcise boys and throw the blood and baptismal fonts,
et cetera, et cetera. At which point Pope Arroun finally
said it, you know, who's going to address an avenge
and redress these wrongs, And which point the famous line
deos voltz came out. God Wills it and all the
(14:20):
all the Franks and Christians who heard it committed to
the First Crusade. So that's what really was happening leading
to the First Crusade, even though we are told and
most people think that there was nothing but peaceful coexistence
amongst Muslims and Christians until those evil, pesty Catholics decided
to go and ruin it all.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
It's it's staggering to me, you know how easily history
is manipulated. But that's been the case, I mean forever,
right to the Victor of the Spoils, and and and
what what what really? I think for me as as
a Christian and I'm a relatively new Christian. I got
saved in two thousand, you know, on a trip right
before I went out to Afghanistan. I was about ready
(15:04):
to have my first child. And I you know, i'd
been struggling with my faith since I left the teams
and trying because I knew that God was watching out
for me, I just didn't know how to how to
accept it and what to do with it. And so
it was this battle that took place with me because
I didn't understand the history and and and even though
I was able to, you know, read the New Testament
(15:28):
and read the Old Testament. You know, as a young man,
I didn't know how to decipher that or where to
find it. And so it I think it really comes
down to these, you know, unique stories of individuals that
really kind of flip or change the ability for people
to become emotionally invested in the past or the history
(15:50):
their legacy or lineage. And and you know, once I
got saved, I got deeper and deeper. I found you
in two thousand and twelve, started following paying attention and
was like, oh my god, you know, this is what
all my buddies during the g wat, you know, them
with those tattoos like like Secretary Hegseth and you know,
(16:11):
I don't even know five or six friends that had
the Jerusalem Cross across their whole backs and they and
they would look at me and they'd be like, hey,
rut Man, you need to know your history if you're
going to be a Christian. I go, I'm not even
sure what that means. What do you you know? And
so what I would love for you to do. And
one of the things that I think one of the
places that I've been inspired was the story of the
(16:34):
Reconquista in Spain, which is, you know, if you know,
hopefully you'll you can do it a much you know,
better description than I can. But it was this small
pocket of Christians that were like, hey, if we don't
rise up, it's over for us. We will be permanently
conquered forever. And I just want, you know, for you
to share that story and that movement and the impact
(16:58):
that it has as what I want, you know, young
Christian men out there or even young men who who
are who believe in the Western the beauty of Western culture,
and it's emergent because it was directly correlated to Christian them,
you know, to give them something they can lean into.
So would would you talk about Spain a little bit
(17:19):
for us?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah? Absolutely, And all you said, I agree with. You know,
there's and maybe we'll get into it, but uh, it's
really a concerted effort to divorce modern day Christian men
from their rich, robust, muscular heritage and convince them that
if you want to be a good Christian, you have
to be a doormat and anything other than that is
(17:41):
you know, you're you're an evil hypocrite. Okay, And that's
a that's its own very important topic of which at
some point we can address. But as far as the
Riconkista and the story that you're referring to, this is
you know, I always say it, but you know the
famous uh saying, which is history is a stranger than fiction.
In this case, history is way more dramatic than fiction.
(18:03):
And the story will which I'll quickly summarize, this could
be such a blockbuster movie. And they don't even have
to exaggerate. They don't have to. You know, the script
is written and it's called the Historical Records and the Chronicles. Yeah,
but basically, yeah, basically, as I was eluding earlier in
the year seven eleven, the Muslims finally having conquered all
(18:24):
of North Africa, and now they're in Morocco or Mauritania.
They now across the Straits and they're in Spain and
they conquer it. And of course Spain at this point
is a Christian nation ruled by the Visi Goth or
the Western Goths, who are Christians, and they beat them,
they destroy them, they ouse them, and they essentially take over.
(18:46):
Now well, you know, think of the Peninsula of Spain.
If you split it looks like a swear if you
split it in four, the northwestern, the top left, and
not all of it, but just a very very small
rthern portion, which is very rugged, mountainous, you know, in
temperate whether or not a great place. So most Christians
(19:08):
were conquered and they became subjects of the Muslim invaders
as they became known the Moors. But a very very
small pocket actually fled a sort of resistance group and
lived in the mountains. And you know, depending on the sources.
According to the Muslim sources, it was something like twelve,
you know Christians. One of them who became their king
(19:29):
is Pelagius or Paleo, and he's sort of you know,
he's the founder essentially of the resistance movement against the
Muslim conquest of the Spains. So they're hold up literally
in a cave. And according to El Macari, who's one
of the primary Muslim historians of this time, like I said,
(19:49):
they're just a small group, and the Muslims tried to
oust them, but it was just too difficult in that terrain,
and they said, what are ten or twelve Christians? Let
them rot? And from that uh and the Christians themselves Pelagious.
So at one point during the conflict, before they said
let them rot, they had a parley at the cave.
And one of the and the men who parleyed with
(20:11):
Pelagius was actually some bishop who had succumbed to Islamic
rule and was now you know then me and sort of,
you know, a henchman for the Muslims. He went there
to try to cajole them and say, you know, don't resist,
join us. And Pelagius resisted, and he said, and he
basically likened their little cave to the mustard seed in
(20:31):
the in the parable of Christ, which grows into a
great kingdom. Okay, And he said, from this tiny mustard seed,
which you're mocking, we're going to come back. And they
did century after century. So from that small seed you
had very a very few small in the northwestern quadrant. Again,
Christian kingdoms developed, and you know, they and the whole
(20:52):
thing between them was war with the Muslims. And this
is the riconet, the riconquista, and it starts slowly and
slowly they start moving southward and southward. But even before that,
you know, they were still in the cave and whatnot,
the Muslims were waging and sending two annual campaigns. According
to you know, the Sharia, you have to go and devastate,
(21:15):
and they would go and devastate and take as many
slaves as they could and kill. So this is a
I always called Spain as something of a microcosm of
the perennial gihad between Christendom and Islam. It was all
concentrated there. People often think of the Holy Land and
the Crusades, and justifiably so, but really if you look
at Spain, it was all there and one encapsulated, you know,
(21:36):
closed off, sort of like I said, microcosm. So it
was a continuous warfare and it begins the Ricoquista there.
Depending on the dates. Some actually say the real formal
date is in ten eighty five when Toledo is conquered.
Toledo is essentially right in the heart of Spain, and
it was the old Visigothic capital, so when it was
taken from the Muslims, this was a real watershed moment.
(21:59):
And at any rate, it was the same thing, and
they continued warring constantly, and you know, you get all
these now savage while the Berber Islamic fanatical groups that
come from Africa, who are essentially Isis. They're actually described
as dressed in black and all you sees their eyes
and all they do is scream, you know it tell
heat or jihadis slogans essentially, and they come and they
(22:21):
create mountains of heads, pyramids of Christian heads, and there's
wars and this goes on, you know, So seven eleven
is a conquest. Soon thereafter you have the Mountain Pelagius
and the resistance begins. And basically this goes on until
fourteen ninety two, so we're talking over seven hundred years.
All right, this is how long it took Spain to
(22:42):
rid itself of invading Islam and all the depredations. Cordobo,
which we hear of is this great, you know, bastion
of multiculturalism. Again, this is how the historians like to
present it, or some of them anyway. Was actually a
massive slave emporium for the entire Muslim world because it
was a base in Spain in Europe, and they preferred
(23:03):
fair skinned slaves, so it was from that base that
they would get northern slaves from Spain and also from
Europe all throughout Europe. So that was much of its
wealth was the slave trade. You know then anyway, and
you fast forward all the way, like I said, it's
the fourteen ninety two and Ferdinand and Elizabeth Isabella and
(23:24):
then you know that's and even then that's not the
end of it, because essentially Granada the final bastitat of Islam,
the southern tip is captured, and then the Muslims have
uprisings and for centuries they're now pretending to be Christians
and engaging in what's called takea but their heart's still
with Islam and we can get into that. But anyway,
that is the story of its heroic resistance self sacrifice.
(23:47):
I write about it a lot in both my books
because it is, like you said, one of the most
pivotal moments, and it's one of those things, like I said,
imagine you can make what a blockbuster movie that would
be of just throical resistance, but they will never do
that because the resistance is from Christians fighting Muslims who
are conquering their lands. And that's not the Those are
(24:08):
all topics that nobody wants to touch. It was the
opposite of it was Christians terrorizing and killing Muslims. Of course,
that would be all over and Muslims could be presented
as heroes. Yeah, that would be a major movie. But
such as it is, it won't.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Oh man, I completely concur with that, you know. I
I think about, you know, as a kid, and and
what were the things that really were inspiring me? And
I can't imagine if if there had been more movies
that really talked about that historically for me, you know,
in the seventies growing up. You know, I'm I'm it's
(24:42):
all you know, the World War Two movies, right, it's
a bridge too far, it's uh uh, you know those movies.
And then you know, it's also the the other concepts
of you know, American past our, American past of in
the United States and the conquest.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
One of the things, you know, what, what why do
kids always play you know, Cowboys and Indians is because
you grew up during those times and now you're like, yeah, man,
we you know these people, these trappers in particular, I
just read an article yesterday about how Scottish immigrants in
the you know, sixteen hundreds would join forces with Native
(25:22):
Americans and integrate into their tribes and in order to
you know, understand the Savage West. And you know, so
there's all this history that had I been exposed to
as a young man, would have driven me, in my opinion,
closer to faith because I would have said, all right,
oh man, I you know, because one of the things
(25:43):
that I think I struggled with after leaving the teams
was all right, I need to I need to, you know,
put that away, you know, I need to put that
that warrior mindset off to the side, so I can,
you know, integrate into society where when you're I mean
just the time you're talking about, from what's seven eleven
(26:04):
to fourteen ninety two and even beyond. You know, Christians
have been fighting for their place in the world, for
their place in their own lands against a never ending assault.
Right and if I had seen that, and if I
had seen, you know, something powerful like that, what that
would have done. It would have, I think, strengthened my
(26:25):
face therefore strengthened my culture, and strengthen my confidence of
where I come from and who I am. So I agree.
Now there is there is a I think a little
bit of a gouge out there that Mel Gibson is
making a movie about the Siege at Malta. I'm hoping
that's a true and it's not just internet nonsense. But
(26:45):
maybe that'll crack the case right and get started for us.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Actually, you just said please, I'd like to elaborate because
you you really, you really brought up some very important
points which resonate with me. When I was a younger
man as well, especially, I always thought like, if I
want to be a good Christian, I have to essentially
be a woman, you know, I have to be so
emasculated and anything that I had a natural proclivity for.
(27:13):
You know, I've always enjoyed medieval warfare and the image
of a night and warriors from multi members.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Remember the movie ex Caliber, back from the old days.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
First.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Lady of the Lake, Like, I must, dude, if I dude,
I don't know how many off the time, RAYM and
I come out and I'll go just be sitting there
and my kids will be around. I'll go on all
notth rock with bus, but dude, hell right, and they'll
be like, what the hell are you saying. I'm like,
it's it's the sorcery. Yeah, I'm sorry, you know.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
And but there's this kind of like thing in the culture,
especially again, if you want to be a Western Christian,
where like that's bad, that's you know, you're you're, that's
that's evil. You have to be a doormat. That's the
only thing I've since come to that this is actually
all by design.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
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Speaker 2 (28:12):
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Speaker 2 (29:00):
There's this kind of like thing in the culture, especially
again if you want to be a Western Christian, where
like that's bad, that's you know, you're you're, that's that's evil.
You have to be a dormat. That's the only thing
I've since come to learn that this is actually all
by design. You know, if you're an enemy of Christianity,
the number one thing that you're gonna want to do
is convince Christians that the religion begins and ends with
(29:21):
turning the other cheek, Okay, and it doesn't. Is that
a component of Christianity, of course, but it's very much
balanced with something else. And that's you know, the classic
idea of heresy. The meaning is you take one aspect
of teachings and ignore the rest. And so that's really
what's going on. They've they've convinced Christians, you know, you
want to be a good Christian man, then you're essentially
(29:42):
going to become a woman. Okay. You have to be
totally masculated. You have to you know, reject any kind
of militancy or anything like that, because that's all evil.
That's evil Crusaders. And this, by the way, is why
the Crusaders are so hated, and they must constantly and
always be demonised, because if people really know what are
all about, they're actually very attractive and something you are
(30:03):
going to gravitate towards and kind of want to emulate. Okay,
because they are heroic and they're good, and they're Christian
and they're noble and chivalries, et cetera, et cetera. So
that's why I think for decades, it's not centuries, they've
been so attacked and undermined because people who don't like Christianity.
I mentioned this sometimes, but you know, I don't know.
(30:24):
It wasn't the last Super Bowl. I think it was
one before where this is the classic example. They had
this commercial and there was no talking. All it was
was images of people washing the feet of other people, okay,
And it was, ironically enough, all the people on their
knees washing feet were white, normal traditional looking Americans, and
(30:44):
everyone getting their feet washed where okay, people of color,
Muslim wearing a turban and a woman in a hit job,
you know, a migrant who obviously in the scene is
like they just crossed the border. And it ends up
by saying something like Jesus didn't each hate, he washed
his feet. Okay. So that is the approved promoted form
(31:04):
of Christianity in the West. And if you follow that,
and that's all you do, which is your doormat, and
you turn the other cheek. And by the way, it's
easy to do all that stuff. So in a way,
it's kind of a they make a virtue of advice,
the Christians who actually embrace this, because it's easy not
to be confrontational, it's easy not to stand up for
what's right. It's easy to be a doormat and let
(31:26):
people walk all over you. So, but that is the
kind of thing that's being approved, and you can see
why it is so unattractive and why so many men
fall away from Christianity rightfully, so because that is not it.
That's not the truth the real Christianity. Yeah, you have tolerance,
you have forgiveness, but you also have cords of whips
and tables being overturned and righteous indignation and wrath, and
(31:48):
that has been completely torn us under and not part
of our Christian heritage, which the Crusaders and all these
pre modern heroic Christians definitely understood. So I think that's
you know you want to When you mentioned what you
were saying, it reminded me too of my youth and
how I just thought like, either I'm a really bad
Christian or I need to like stop liking these things.
(32:10):
And this is also why can you find Westerners who
convert to Islam, because at least it gives it room
to vents for these sorts of masculine traits. And if
you feel like the only thing you know, Christianity all
offers is beeping and acting like a woman and being
a doormat, Yeah, I get it for how that so
many men just can't tolerate that it's so against their nature. Anyway,
(32:34):
that was a little ranked that you've sort of god
to my mind.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
I'm glad you said it. You know what I found
fascinating is that you know, you've got this beautiful Egyptian descent, right,
you grew up speaking Arabic and English, and so you
can read the language. So it's not as if, you know,
you're interpreting it through all those different you know, translations
that either diluted or whatever the message or protected the message,
(33:01):
if you will. But you know, I certainly have spent
my fair share in Muslim lands in particular most of
the time I spent I spent in Afghanistan, and and
you know I worked with a ton of different interpreters
and from different sets and different uh you know background,
Shia and Sunni, and you know, have numerable friends that
(33:23):
uh you know, have worked with all of them different
in Iraq and all over Africa, you name it. And
and you know what what what I always you know,
extrapolated from their stance when I would press them, because
when I was doing that, I was going through this
time in my life trying to figure out what it
meant to be a Christian? Can't I be a warrior
(33:44):
and a Christian too? And it's because I had no background.
I had no understanding of the knowledge that you have,
the wisdom that you have from our background. And so
I would hear these men talk to me in earnestness
because they have a tendency any culture that's been in
war for as long as the Afghans have, they talk
in real terms and their perceptions and terms that are
(34:09):
imbued with the presence of violence, right eye for an eye.
And and so what I remember respecting most about their
stance and their faith was the strength that they imbued
in them, the masculinity that emerged from their faith. And
I had a profound respect for that. And I think
(34:30):
we're seeing that, you know, kind of rise again. And
we're seeing that rise again in areas that had, you know,
traditionally been predominantly Christian and nature. And when you look
at at Western Europe and you look at you know,
you look at Britain, and you look at or England,
and you look at Ireland. Man, you see there's I
(34:52):
think this confidence collapse that's taking place because of the
profound amount of immigration that's happened. When you look at
what's going on in Europe and to a certain extent
in America. You know, there was that just that recent
thing in New Jersey that they're trying to implementary law
in a particular magistrate, you know, but you look at
(35:12):
it in particular Europe and the place where these you know,
the historical relevance of these these men that fok back
against the tyranny of Jahad. You know what is taking place?
Uh for these young men over there. What is a
way that they can reintegrate themselves as as a predominant
(35:33):
voice in their cultures in order to combat what seems
to be a growing temperature of radicalization.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
Yeah, they unfortunately have a long and hard road against
them because they've gone so far back with what they've done.
And again, you know, the best way to understand is
compare and contrast their behavior with their ancestors who I
describe in you know, let's say, Defenders of the West,
and I talk about European heroes who were the exact opposite.
These were the men that we were alluding to earlier,
(36:08):
the heroes who actually gave everything they had and they
didn't have to. A lot of these men were kings
and emperors who actually left everything just to go and
fight and defend the cause of Christendom. And you know,
it's what's interesting to me, and I've said this before,
is whereas Muslims are walking in perfect continuity with their ancestors,
they still have the same mentality because it's part and
(36:30):
parcel of Islamic teaching, which is hostility for the non Muslim,
the infidel, the camper, and you know, the imperative to
conquer and subjugate, etc. And you see this from Muslims
both in the Muslim world, but even more so in
Europe because wherever you go and you have large pockets
of the Muslims, you know, think Sweden, think England, Germany, France,
(36:52):
you have problems, serious problems. Okay. But then the West,
we were talking about the defenders of the West, the Christians,
their modern descendants are actually walking in perfect discontinuity with
their ancestors. So instead of fighting tooth and nail and
resisting them, they're going out of their way to bring
them in. And I always say this, and it's just
(37:12):
it's so mind boggling when you think of it this way.
But unfortunately, too many Western people, white people, if you will,
they think of themselves as sort of, you know, as
because they look at Western nations and they see that
they're still the majority, and they think somehow, you know,
they owe it to everyone else. But in reality, if
you look at the world population, the white population is
something like four percent of the whole world. And I
(37:34):
just find it amazing that that four percent is the
one that is being obligated to open its doors to everyone,
to abnegate and disavow its heritage and its religion and
its culture and its civilization, to suppress itself. It's just amazing,
you know, you've never seen such self suicidal impetus. And
then you compare it to the earlier with the ones
(37:56):
we're talking about, the heroes, their forefathers. Little they hate
them and they don't want to talk about them, the crusaders,
and they want to suppress them. Because they're doing the
exact opposite. Whereas the first guys, the heroes, were fighting
for the cause of Christiandom and Christianity, fighting for their
cultures and their civilization, these Europeans, at least their leaders,
(38:17):
are doing everything possible to destroy their people. I mean,
when you look at it, when I hear stories coming
out of England, the attack on free speech that you
can't even say the truth and you're gonna get It's
just I don't get how the English people don't realize
they've become slaves, Okay, and it doesn't matter if they
think those people are elected officials or not. It's one
(38:38):
big charade at this point when they're doing what they're
doing and so obvious. Wow. And I put in one
of my books, I have a quote from some sort
of parliamentarian in Germany, I think in Munich, Stephanie something,
and basically she gets up and says, oh, you know,
I have news for all you right wingers who are
complaining that, you know, this city or Germany mineral is
(39:00):
going to be Muslim majority in whatever years And that's
what Actually some Pew numbers pere results pupils say that
like twenty something like twenty fifty Muslims might be like
fifty percent, and she goes and that's a good thing.
I mean, think about that mentality. And I just told
you you're four percent of the world population and you're
boasting because you're that four percent in its own homeland,
(39:23):
is giving up its homeland even more. It's just it's
really a sick, almost diabolical mentality, and it's become so
pervasive that people don't notice it. It's you know, you
I always talk about the boiling frog syndrome. You know,
if you're in that, then you're boiling and boiling and boiling.
It just you don't even get it anymore. But this
is you if you can step out of reality from
(39:44):
all if people could look at what's happening in the
West and what the West is doing to itself, it's
just mind boggling. It's utterly unprecedented. But as far as
your question, you know, what, what man, you can do?
That's this is why I say it's so hard because
everything is set against them every from the way these
the models of Christianity are being demonized constantly, to the
(40:06):
fact that you can't even open your mouth without possibly
getting in trouble with the law. It's the system is
not going to work for them. Okay, the bottom line
is doing it the normal way at the voting poll
or the voting booth, it's not going to work because
the whole thing is at this point rig But at
the same time, you know, I was telling you, why
do they actually try to emasculate men and Christians. There's
(40:28):
a reason that they want to hear in the West.
You know, they want to convince every boy that he's
a little girl. And it's not just perversion, which it is,
but it's also if you want to rule and govern
and dominate a place, you want to do it. You
want to rule and govern a country run by women.
And if I turn every man and make him think
he's a woman essentially, and he's just given up on
(40:48):
he doesn't ever resist, I'm going to rule and control
that country. So that's I think been going on for decades,
and that's why Western men have been so emasculated, and
so even at this point, I don't think they could,
you know, get up and do what they have to do,
which is whatever is necessary, because of generations of them
being so utterly emasculated from every corner, one from kindergarten,
(41:12):
from the media, from the church that they go to. Uh,
it's become a very difficult thing. And you know it's
not very hopeful, but such as a situation, and it
might have to get worse before it gets better. Wow.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
That's heavy and and and true all of it. Everything
you said before. I let you go, Raymond, because I
know how busy you are, and again I really appreciate
your time. Is there a particular person that you a
story that you can reference or just you know, drop
that seed, right, be that sower for young men that
(41:49):
are going to watch this show, or even young women
you know that that are fascinated by what you're saying.
But is that there there's that one person in history
that if they dig into and they get going, that
they could get going and find this history and bring
it back to life and as almost a you know,
(42:10):
a crusade in their own faith, right in their own soul,
the battle that's taken being waged in their own soul.
There is there a person that you would lead to.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
Yeah, actually, and maybe because we already spoke about him,
but I'll tell you why it's even about and beyond that.
But it's pellagious of Spain, of the reconquista. The man
who was in the hold Up region. And the reason
I say that is his situation was not unlike what
I just described. Think about it. His country had been
destroyed and taken over by the enemy openly, and a
(42:42):
lot of his countrymen succumbed. And and you know, we're
willing to lit as basically second class citizens of Muslims,
and they were being abused, you know, even though they
were paying their tribute. It wasn't they were. But he
then a very tiny band of the radicals who wouldn't
not dane to submit to the Yoka Islam, suffered and
(43:04):
went and lived in a cave just and they were
described like animals who are just gonna die off because
they didn't even have food, okay, and because that's how
bad the situation was. But they persevered. And like I said,
you even said the word seed right now. They they
mentioned the mustard seed. And from that tiny thing, and
even though they went through so much suffering and sacrifices,
(43:24):
it developed. It took centuries. And that's why you know,
when we talk about Europe right now, it's this even
if even if this was emulated, and something like that
would happen to sort of resistance movement. It's gonna take
a long time to you know, readjust and realign and
bring things back to normal, but it could be done.
Even these guys. Look what they did. They chose a
(43:46):
life of sacrifice for what they believe, and they actually
anchored it in Christian faith, and they fought back and
and maybe out of some other point we can talk
about just war theory, because that's a whole other issue,
you know.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Yeah, if you're well and man, I'd love to have
you back regularly to tell these stories, to bring it
back into the forefront of our consciousness here in the
States and Christian consciousness, to reinvigorate Christian men to recognize
what where they come from and the heritage. I would
love to have you back, Raymond. What's going on right
(44:22):
now in your life? Where can people find all of
your material? What where can they find your books? And
how can they follow you?
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Sure, David, The one easy quick way is just my
website Raymond Ibrahim dot com. R A Y M O
and d I B R A H I M and
all my articles are there and links to my books
and videos I've been trying to kind of cultivate a
YouTube channel, so on occasion I also make videos, and
this video will be on it as well, which is good.
(44:52):
And as far as the topics that were discussing, because
you know, I've read several books and each one deals
with something and I had it right here because I
was actually quoting from it. But anyone who's interested in
the heroic aspect here it is Defenders of the West,
the Christian heroes who stood against Islam. The story of
Pelagius is in there that I was talking about. But
(45:13):
also all these other guys who, like I said, who
just and so many of them are and you know,
like King Richard. You hear by King Richard and you
read what's written about it by modern historians, and he
just appears, like above, you know, a dirt bag, and
it's just a really bad way. You read the primary sources,
including what the Muslims said about I mean, you just
get this amazing hero, a self sacrificing king basically. So
(45:36):
there's definitely a lot of correctives that need to be done.
But yeah, if anyone's interested, I think I would recommend
that book because it really is no it's the one
that will most inspire young men to understand what it
was to become a Christian warrior.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
Outstanding Raymond, I can't thank you enough, and God speed
on your journey and your message. Brother, take care.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
Thank you, David, I appreciate it. Sing to you.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Another powerful, powerful message that we've had on the David
Rutherford Show really stoke. Raymond came on and shared that stuff.
What we want to also just inform you, we have
this great Patreon account where we have additional content available.
We have all this extra information. I'm going to be
teaching motivational courses in the future. I'll be giving motivational
(46:27):
live events with Q and A. Go visit us at
our Patreon site. At David Rutherford's show, It's two dollars
easy subscription fee. We got a lot of great stuff.
Did something special coming soon. We're going to announce on Wednesday,
so don't miss it. Our Patreon account. History it's one
(46:53):
of the components that I think in the modern era,
we're beginning to realize that there's a lot more to
our history than we've been allowed to understand. I think
you see it all over the Internet and all different
types of historical podcasts that are emerging, from Dan Carlin's
(47:16):
History podcast to Darryl Cooper who's constantly under salt his podcasts,
and many others. What's taking place is we're starting to
really dig in. And what you heard today from a
man that has been comprehensively dedicated to the history of
Christians in the fight to survive from Raymond Ibraham was
(47:40):
something that was powerful. And I hope you recognize that.
I hope you realize that maybe, well a lot of
what you've been told about the Crusades was just not accurate,
and that the Crusades were a result of four hundred
years of vicious, savage attacks on on a religion of peace.
(48:02):
And don't get me wrong, I have no illusion about
about other aspects. And you know, the automatic response I
typically hear was what about the Catholic Church and pedophilia
or what about the Catholic Church? And and it's it's
it's it's atrocious behavior to children and women and all
these other things. Yeah, got it. No, no one group
(48:24):
of people are are are innocent of their their sins.
That's the point of Christendom, right, that we aren't comput
We're always sitting and we That's what Christ died on
the cross for so that our sins would be forgiven.
Speaker 2 (48:43):
You know.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
The other aspect is to recognize that, you know, in
society today, there's many people that are are completely happy
in a Latin and very gracious towards other people and
their ability to you know, and their ability to allow
certain cultures to fight for what they believe in, to
(49:05):
allow Muslims to be able to stand up and consume
city blocks and have called a prayer wherever they want,
or to allow you know, israelis right which to fight
for their own sovereignty, their own existence, and the existential
threat that Israel faces every day. You know. But there's
(49:27):
a bizarre thing I think taking place where there's a
large group of people who have a problem with Christians
fighting for what they believe in. And I'm not sure
why that is as they promote others, but I know
for me, I'm proud to be a Christian. It's been
the most important thing in my life. But it's also
(49:51):
been a struggle to try and understand what about my
faith that invokes a deeper spirit, a deeper, deeper sen
of pride that I'm willing to stand toe to toe
against an enemy that wants to take me down, an
evil enemy, that negative insurgency. And so what I wanted
(50:11):
to do, you know, after this beautiful, glorious Easter weekend,
which is not about Easter egg hunts and and family dinners.
It's about, you know, the reality that that my Messiah,
my my my living God rose based on the word
of God, the good news that God loves you, and
(50:34):
that if we love our neighbors, we'll find salvation in
the afterlife. And and for that he was crucified. He
was attacked for those beliefs. I ain't much like Christians
around the world. They're being attacked now. And he was attacked,
and he was condemned, and he was nailed to that cross,
(50:56):
and he died. But he didn't die for his own sins.
He died for yours. He died for mine. And that's
something that we should bear the burden of that sacrifice.
And I think at its heart, that's what Christianity is
really about. It's the recognition that we must be willing
(51:17):
to sacrifice what we want, wish and desire for the
person that needs it, needs to be lifted up and
needs to be propped up, and said Hey, it's okay.
I forgive you, but guess what you have to get
in the fight of life. You have to be righteous
in order to achieve that salvation. And the reality was
(51:39):
he is risen, and that's the whole thing. He was crucified,
and then three days later he arose that's been under
attack since the moment had happened. And if you look
at the persecution of the apostles, you look at the
a person of persecution of the possible that I most
(52:01):
connect with in this life, and that was Saul who
became Paul. Right. This is literally a man who went
out and sought out to destroy Christians, to kill them,
to get rid of them. And through that divine invention
on the road from Damascus, you know, Christ appeared blinding
him and then he had the scales removed from his
(52:22):
eyes so he could see the truth of what Christ was,
who he is in our lives, his actions and what
they represent, which is a fight, and our salvation is
tied to that fight. And so what did Paul do? Man,
I mean three shipwrecks. He was almost stoned to dell,
he was imprisoned, and even in Rome he went to
the emperor speaking to the emperor directly and said, you know,
(52:46):
you can be saved. And what did they give him?
They gave him a dose, right, they chopped off his
head and crucified him, just like they did all the
rest of them. And so from that movement of standing
up for your beliefs, Christendom spread and spread all through
(53:06):
the Middle East, all through the areas that we now
see have been overtaken and are dominated by these different
religions and cultures. And then, you know, starting in six
point thirty four, you know, Islam established a calphate and
decided they were going to persecute Christians and get rid
(53:27):
of them, because in the very nature of it, it's
there's jahad for some is an obligation. And then for
four hundred years they went after penetrating all the way
up into France, all through Italy, all through all the
ancient world. They eradicated the oldest churches, killed millions and
(53:48):
millions of people, enslaved millions and millions of people, until
finally someone decided, I'm going to stand up and fight
for what I believe in. And from that recognition I
was able to develop some strength in my own life,
not necessarily to go out and and don my shield
(54:12):
or don my armor and wage war, but more so
to don the armor of God's love so that I
can wage war against sin, wage war against the evil
that's out there, that's corrupting young people, corrupting people, and
more importantly that it corrupted me in many different ways.
(54:34):
And I think that's the key to recognize, is that
through that strength of the Word, through those actions of Christ,
you are strong, and you're strong enough to wage a
war beyond just preaching the good news or the word.
But it's literally to take up arms if you have to,
to dig in and allow your culture to exist when
(54:57):
it's under assault, and you can't let all these other
ideas you know, infiltrate and convince you that it's not,
because for for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years
it has been under assault. So whether or not you
(55:18):
want to take the literal meaning, And you know what
does everybody always say. Everybody comes back and they say, well,
Christ was a hippie man. He didn't have an army,
he didn't go out there and persecute his enemies or
anything like that. And I'm like, yeah, that's true. And
he wanted to preach love, and if we can get
that point of love, you know there's an there's an
(55:39):
opportunity for salvation. But you know what, at twelve, he
did enter the temple and he did confront the people
that were and contra being saying contradictory things. And then
one of my favorite parts of Christ, his legacy and
his story was when he flipped the tables over. He said,
(55:59):
you know, how dare you come into the house of
the Lord and do what you're doing? Man? He flipped
those tables. So to try and generate this idea that
Christ was some weak person, I just here's what I
want you to do, is I want you to go
read the Book of Revelations because that's some powerful stuff
right there. It's an incumbent upon people when your culture
(56:29):
is under assault, or your belief systems are under assault,
that you are willing to rise up in a capacity
and don that armor and to fight for what you
believe in. So, if you're listening to this or you're
trying to understand, I beg you to go read Raymond's books,
(56:50):
The Defenders of the West, The Sword, and the Sickmutar. Right,
go read these incredible stories of the Reconquista. Go read
these incredible stories of Malta, those incredible epic battles of
the siege and Constantinople and other areas, and read your
rich history because you're part of that. If you are
a Christian, that's a part of you, and don't deny
(57:14):
that truth. Don't deny that history because that's the history
that will make you strong. Jordy and I just want
to thank you for coming and being part of our
team here at the David Rutherford Show. Please don't forget
to like, subscribe, leave a comment, and share these episodes.
If they're having any impact on you or you love
(57:37):
the content, don't be afraid to share it with the people.
Share it on your own social media. We want you
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have our permission to go out there and push these out. Also,
if you can follow on our social media platforms. The
show itself is at David Rutherford's Show. That's on YouTube Tube,
(58:00):
that's on Rumble, that's on Patreon, that's on Instagram, that's
on tic tac, that's everywhere you can find it. Same thing,
The David Rutherford Show on audio platforms. Right that's Spotify,
Apple Ihearts platform. And then on X it's at d
(58:21):
Rutherford Show. You can follow us there. We'd love to
have you follow and share content there. And then if
you have any interest whatsoever, and and following my late
night ramblings or my in the airport analysis or the
type of stuff I'm sharing the news stories I think
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X Instagram really are the only two places. And I'm
(58:45):
posting right now and that's at Team frog Logic David
Rutherford at Team frog Logic. All right, h yeah, thank
you
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