April 15, 2025 • 36 mins
In hour 2 of the Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show, the hosts delve into a range of compelling topics. The hour begins with Clay Travis and Buck Sexton discussing the tragic incident in Frisco, Texas, where 17-year-old Austin Metcalf was fatally stabbed by another 17-year-old, Carmelo Anthony, at a track meet. They explore the legal and societal implications of the case, highlighting the controversial aspects of the defense fund that has raised over $400,000 for Anthony, and the subsequent reduction of his bail from $1 million to $250,000. The hosts express their concerns about the misuse of these funds, as the family reportedly purchased a new house with the donations.
The conversation transitions to broader themes of justice and self-defense, questioning the societal and racial dynamics at play in this case. They compare the media and public reactions to similar incidents involving different racial backgrounds, emphasizing the role of identity politics in shaping public perception and legal outcomes.
Alan Dershowitz's commentary on the case is also discussed, where he points out the racial biases that influence jury selection and public opinion. The hosts agree with Dershowitz's assessment that the racial dynamics significantly impact the narrative and potential outcomes of such cases.
Throughout the hour, Clay and Buck stress the importance of distinguishing between good and evil, and the challenges posed by identity politics in achieving true justice. They argue that the current societal climate often leads to skewed perceptions and unjust support for individuals based on race rather than the facts of the case. And why this case is not the same as Kyle Rittenhouse.
Clay ends the hour by asking how many pairs of shoes does your wife have and what number is too many?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all
of you hanging out with us as we are rolling
through the program here. We've been breaking down a lot
of different stories out there. Buck back, new dad, baby
in the house. Very exciting. We continue to talk about that.
Appreciate all the fabulous responses we've gotten so far. So Buck,
(00:22):
I want to hit this story because I think it's
important and I think it ties in with a little
bit about what we were discussing, which is the inability
to distinguish between good and evil. And in particular, this
story is from Texas, north of Dallas, I believe, Frisco,
Texas and for those of you to not hear about
(00:43):
this story, a seventeen year old Austin Metcalf was stabbed
to death at a track meet by another seventeen year
old named Carmelo Anthony. Anthony has been arrested. He's been
charged with the crime. He admits that he did it.
It appears that his argument is going to be predicated
(01:03):
on some form of self defense. In other words, there
is no disputing that he had a knife and that
he stabbed this kid in the heart and killed him.
The seventeen year old who was stabbed to death. Austin
Metcalf died in his twin brother's arms. This is an
awful story. It has received a substantial amount of attention.
(01:28):
In the wake of the stabbing. The family of Carmelo
Anthony set up a legal defense fund and it was
hosted by a individual company and that fund has raised
over four hundred thousand dollars. Now, to be fair, the
(01:51):
company that is allowing this fund to be raised is
the same one. Their position is, hey, you should be
able to raise money for your legal defense. We're not
going to make decisions based on what you're charged with,
what your race is. They are going to allow it
to be set up no matter what. So this is
not GoFundMe. This is another one. But he's raised over
(02:13):
four hundred thousand dollars. They just lowered his bail from
one million dollars to two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
Since you only have to pay ten percent UH usually
in order to get bail. That's just twenty five k
of the four hundred thousand plus that has been raised
(02:36):
for him. The family bought a new house. Buck The
family has reportedly bought a new house with the four
hundred thousand dollars that has been raised for this seventeen
year old who is accused of in cold blood murdering
another seventeen year old at a track meet, stabbed him
(02:59):
in the heart, killed him. What does it say for
society today? I think you can tie this in with
the Luigi Mangioni case. I think you can tie it
in with what happened on October seventh. That someone can
stab teenage boys, one can stab the other one in
the heart, and over four hundred thousand dollars can be raised,
(03:23):
the bail can be reduced, which seems crazy to me.
He's only having to pay twenty five thousand dollars and
they're buying a house with all of the hundreds of
thousands of dollars in donations that has rolled in the family.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Well, here's how here's how I would would want to
approach this clay. There are almost twenty thousand murders and
non negligent manslaughter cases in the United States every year. Right,
depends on the year, but let's call it roughly twenty
thousand murders a year in this country.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
That's right, one kind or another.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Why is this murder getting or alleged murder.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Right, this is legally what we're supposed to.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Say, But why is this incident and the facts aren't
in dispute. It's not like he's saying I didn't stab it.
He stabbed him to death. Everyone saw it is. So
why are there people who are donating money for this
legal defense who have never donated money for anyone else's
legal defense? Why is there this ground swell of people
(04:26):
who want to assist the Carmelo Anthony family here, not
the metcalf family, notably, not the family that just lost
their boy for absolutely no reason whatsoever in the most
vicious and violent way. They don't care about that family.
They care about the Carmelo Anthony family. I think that
(04:48):
we have to ask this question, and I don't think
that there's a a single answer. I think there are
there are many different answers. I think that there are
people who like to believe different narrati. I think they're
people who like to feel like they are advancing the
cause of justice by assisting those who are oppressed.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
It's one way of saying it.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Because this is the other thing I'm seeing people who
are saying it's self defense. This is the line that
you are hearing everywhere, and unfortunately, that is an outrageous
claim under these circumstances. Yes, because what they're doing is
they're saying, well, well, Carmelo Anthony had a credible fear
(05:33):
or a reasonable fear of his own safety and or life,
and so he reacted in this way. If this is
self defense, anybody who has a crossword with anybody in
any high school anywhere across the country can murder that
person in cold blood in front of their family members
at a crowded event and get away with it. True,
And anyone who is donating money to this individual is
(05:56):
really donating money to the most talk and cynical and
divisive aspects of American politics. I think that they are
and society. I think that they are really adding fuel
onto the fire here of a lot of discontent and resentment.
(06:18):
And let's just be honest about this. They've decided that
because this kid is black, they are going to back
him to the greatest degree possible while he estab this
white kid to death. And you want to ask, why
is that? Are they trying to Is this supposed to
be some kind of a reckoning moment? Are they trying
to force some kind of oj situation here where it
(06:41):
doesn't matter what he did. I mean, what exactly is
the point that they make with all this monetary and
public support of this seventeen year old who stabbed another
kid to death in front of his dad.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I'll go time to kill for a second time today.
But can you imagine the reaction if a white kid
stabbed a black kid to death that attract me, gets
his bail reduced from one million to two hundred and
fifty thousand dollars, raises over four hundred thousand dollars, and
buy the family buys a new house with it. It
(07:15):
would be the very definition of white privilege everybody.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
People would be saying that it's a resurgence of the
Ku Klux Klan or something. I mean, they would be
saying it's a white supremacist ground swell, that's what the meat,
and I don't just mean totally.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Media would be saying with that, there would be protest marches.
It would be everywhere, And I don't begrudge. Producer Ali says, well,
how in the world are you going to defend? Argue
self defense? He has no other defense. So again I've
been a criminal defense attorney. I don't begrudge the argument
of self defense when you admit that you stab somebody
(07:50):
in the heart with a knife.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Hold on, there is that applies to that applies to
the lawyer. I'm talking about people that are buying this,
and so I'm going to give money to to help
this this family. Well, why does Carmelo Anthony's family does
Carmelo Anthony's family should be, you know, begging for forgiveness
and saying we're sorry that our son murdered somebody for
no reason.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yes, he has no defense, So the only defense he
has is self defense. So yes, that's the legal that
makes sense, that's the old that's the warrior's job. That's
the only defense he has. But why would anybody else
buy into that?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
And how in the world do you reward the family
who has failed.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Look, if you're seventeen year old, white, black, Asian or
Hispanic stabs another kid to death at a school event,
you failed as a parent in some way. I'm sorry
you did. So the idea that the parent would be rewarded.
You can't tell me that the kid took a knife
(08:52):
to school. If you are taking knives to school, this
goes for anybody out there, your kids, you're grandkids. Something's wrong.
I told my kids this recently. I said, hey, I
understand that people have guns. If you're a high school
kid and you find yourself out with other high school
(09:12):
kids who have loaded weapons, you made a very poor decision.
You need to extricate yourself from that situation. If you
find yourself taking knives that could be used to stab
someone to death to school, you have failed in some
way as a parent to allow that situation to occur.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
And so I'm really I agree with a lot of course,
but who's donating to this?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Like the really really thing? What is the mentality? Why
are you giving money to this?
Speaker 1 (09:44):
He has been assigned for one hundred to give thousand dollars,
not even just donating, donating tons of money?
Speaker 3 (09:50):
This is what I mean. Who is giving money for this?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
And and what is the mentality behind that? You would
you would have to to truly believe this was a
self defense case. You would have to be such a
moron that you can't spell self defense. There's just no way,
It's not possible.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I think it's identity politics. I think it's purely Hey,
this is a black kid, who killed a white kid.
I would bet if you go and look at the donors,
I think a large majority of them would be white
liberals who are whose brains are broken. And I think
black people who are buying into the idea that because
this black kid stabbed a white kid, that he is
(10:32):
somehow the victim and he's being cashiered by the media
and attacked unfairly. So I think if you went and looked,
I think this is the other thing.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Buck.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I think this would be ninety five percent Kamala Harris
voters right, if they voted at all. Definitely Democrats who
aren't don'tating the money one hundred percent. But I mean
when you think about again, I just the mentality of somebody,
So is it for some of these individuals, it's you know,
there's like guilty white liberal guilty conscience, White liberals who think,
(11:02):
I'm just going to help this young black kid because
he made like a mistake and I don't want his
whole life, so they're going to write a check even
though he murdered somebody or allegedly murdered somebody, Right, And
then I guess you have members of the black community
who are just deciding, well, he's black, so I'm going
to stand with him in this. But to that, I
just want to say, why would you stand with this
(11:22):
black murderer and.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Not any of the others that you like?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Well, why are you picking this because it's a high
level case where he killed a white guy?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Like, what message are people trying to send?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I think the message of racial division? Here's another question,
and I think answer that makes this story.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Again.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
I hate that this is a story, but I do
think it is a snapshot of the world in which
we live for some people. If he had stabbed a
black kid, which is far more common, right, most victims
of racial violence are the same race. If he had
stabbed a black kid to death, same exact situation, with
the kids black, not one person, by and large would
(12:03):
have heard about it. Nobody would have raised money for him.
I doubt they would have dropped his veil. I bet
that it would have barely made local Dallas news. It
certainly wouldn't have become a national story. White kids' lives,
in the eyes of the media, are worthy of cover
when they are taken violently in a situation like this.
(12:24):
It's happened so regularly to young black men that If
a young black man kills another young black man, it's
barely a blip on the national radar. The only reason
this is a story is because there was race involved.
If it's black on black crime, not a story at all.
That's the other part of this. And nobody donates to
(12:45):
the guy of the four hundred thousand dollars buck. I
bet he wouldn't have been able to raise four thousand
dollars if he had stabbed another black kid to death.
Think about the poison that will be injected into the
veins of the American populous if this kid is either
hung jury or gets off, which you can't discount as
(13:07):
a possibility. All you need to know one jury. Don't
know what the jury jury is going.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
It just needs one right And and now we've seen
is there's a movement to make this kid into some
kind of a victim. The facts are not in dispute. Okay,
you don't at an event, at a high school event
where there's people everywhere, you don't get to just pull
a knife out and stab somebody in. By the way,
I've said this to friends of mine too, Clay, because
this does matter. You know, you can pull a knife
(13:34):
out and it's a bad thing to do, obviously, But
if you pull a knife out, you know, you slash
somebody on the arm, you know, you you you kind
of you know, you go like hey, buddy, like the
next one.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
For most people, if you pull a knife out, it
ends the entire compensation without you even having to wave
it anywhere.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
People are like, dude, to stab somebody.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
In the heart is to go for intentional legal force
right away when you're under no threat. It is vicious,
it is barbarous. And this kid should spend the rest
of his life in prison. I mean, I know the
Supreme Courts that he's not eighteen, so they won't. You know,
you can't go beyond life in prison. But the fact
(14:14):
that people are raising money for this is it's just
it's just appalling.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
How about dropping the bail.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Why isn't bail getting dropped from a million two hundred
and fifty? Oh, you have to pay his twenty five
k to get out of prison after you stab somebody
to death.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
That seems wild to me.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
How do you think of you're if you're a J
six defendant who walked into the Capitol building for like
three minutes and took a selfie and you were denied
a trial for over a year while you sat in
solitary confinement in DC. How would you look at this?
I know it's all the federal versus state, Yeah, but
it's all our justice system. Does that seem fair to anybody? Look,
(14:53):
we're having this conversation and I think it's an important
moment to just remind all of you. Politics when it
comes to self defense a big thing. And if you
have to defend yourself, especially in a state like California
or New York, you need someone to have your back
when you do lawful self defense. And this is where
us Concealed Carey Association USCCA comes in. They have over
(15:17):
eight hundred and sixty thousand responsible gun owners as members
across the country. I'm one myself. The USCCA mission is simple,
protect and prepare Americans like you through training, education and
self defense liability insurance. If you're going to carry, if
you're going to own a firearm, you need to have this.
(15:37):
You need to have this. The bills that people end
up running up for lawful self defense, mind you, lawful
self defense is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars
easily in a case go ask any lawyer if you're
going to defend yourself against a felony, you know, a
felony charge for defending yourself, it's really important you have USCCA.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
I have it.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Clay has a lawyer. He knows it's important for you
to have this. For anybody involved with carrying or owning firearms.
And you might have seen this. There was a guy
who's a former special operations guy just attacked by some
maniac with a brick in New York City. He was
waiting for his daughter outside of a yoga studio. Maniac
attacks him with a brick and he you know, he
ended up putting that guy in the hospital. You don't
(16:20):
think he's gonna get sued. The maniac is probably going
to sue him, just so you know. I mean, this
is the way it works in liberal lunatic places like
New York and California, but anywhere across the country you
could have a soros DA.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
You need USCCA.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Download the free Concealed Carrie and Family Defense Guide at
this website USCCA dot com, slash buck. That's how you
get started again. Download the Free Concealed Carrie and Family
Defense Guide at USCCA dot com slash Buck. You can
also find this information on Clayandbuck dot com under our
sponsor tag.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
Want to be in to know when you're on the
go Team forty seven podcast on highlights from the week
Sundays at noon Eastern in the Clay and Buck podcast scheme.
Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
All right, welcome back to play and Boff. Let's get
to a quick talkback. We'll take more talkbacks and calls
coming after the breaker in a moment. But this is
JJ Richard from Spokane, Washington. On this case. We just
discussed players.
Speaker 6 (17:22):
Hey Clay, Hey Buck Richard from Spokane, longtime listener. Congratulations Buck.
I think that the family of the team that was
stabbed by Carmelo Anthony on a file a lawsuit and
never let them enjoy that house, just like they did
a civil lawsuit and just get all that money.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, it's a great point. I'll talk about that when
we come back. I would be stunned if there isn't
a wrongful death lawsuit filed at some point in the meantime,
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and Buck. Welcome back in Clay, Travis Buck Sexton show.
(18:53):
A lot of people rolling in with reactions to the story,
and again, I think from down in ten Exus, the
stabbing family buying a brand new home. Let me tell
you something, Buck, four hundred thousand dollars get you a
really good home in many parts of Texas. That is
(19:14):
not even just a a a that's a really good
home that they're buying off legal defense fund donations. Now,
I question whether that's legal because if you're raising money
under the auspices of, hey, we're going to retain really
good lawyers who could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars
(19:35):
criminal defense attorneys could, and then you use the money
that you ostensibly were raising for legal defense to buy
a home, that seems like a misappropriation of the funds
that were raised in the way that they're being used.
Paying the bail money that would be somewhat understandable because
it is connected. The fact that the bail was dropped
(19:55):
from one million to two hundred and fifty thousand dollars
is crazy to me. The fact that you can kill
someone and get out of prison for twenty five k
blows my mind. I don't know the standard dollars that
are applied here, again for people who don't know, usually
you have to put forward about ten percent of the
bail money and the other parts covered. But the fact
(20:16):
that that could end up in this situation. Alan Dershowitz
Cut twenty nine is saying what we just said, which
is and It's interesting because Alan Dershowitz was one of
the defense attorneys for OJ Simpson. But he is saying, Hey,
if the race dynamics here were reversed, everybody would be
talking about it in a totally different way. Here's cut
twenty nine.
Speaker 7 (20:36):
This is all about who the jury is. This will
all be determined by the jury. If the racial factors
were reversed, if a white man had killed an unarmed
black man, everybody would be on the reverse side of this.
We live in a society where everything is judged by race.
You know, the Bible says to judges and prosecutors, don't
(20:57):
recognize people, just distract justice. We're way, way, way beyond that.
If the racial elements were reversed there virtually all the
people who are calling for him to be acquitted would
be calling for him to be a quick convicted, and
vice versa. Let's not kit ourselves. We live in a
race conscious society. And jury selection, which of course you're
(21:18):
the guest, is so brilliant that and did so well
in the Zimmament cases, terming the outcome of this case
without a doubt.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
So he's saying the jury selection, as we kind of hinted,
at Buck would determine. Now, I don't know what the
makeup of jury's in Frisco, Texas typically is, but again,
I'm just focused on what we know has happened here.
Stabbing definitely occurred. Only defense is self defense That seems
very weak to me from a legal perspective. And the
family has now bought a new multi hundred thousand dollars
(21:47):
home and he's only had to pay twenty five thousand
dollars to get out of prison. For this, he is
profiting and his family is directly profiting off of murdering
in cold blood a completely innocent seventeen year old to
attract me. And I'll take some of the calls. Some
people are saying, well, this could be self defense. I'm sorry,
Actually it's not. It cannot be self defense because there's
(22:09):
no reasonable way to explain how a verbal dispute over
seats could turn into I have to pull a knife
out of my bag and stab you in the heart
with it. If that now is the standard of self defense,
anybody who doesn't like anyone else can basically get away
with killing them and say I don't like what he
(22:30):
said to me. I was scared, I feared from my
life because I don't like the look in his eyes.
I also think the point you raised is a really
good one. You should not have a knife that is
capable of murdering somebody with ever at school or at
school related events. But for ninety nine point nine percent
(22:52):
of people in America, if somebody pulls a knife, the
dispute is over.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
There are not very many people who are going if
you are unarmed and someone holds a knife to you,
most of us are not gonna be Crocodile Dundee and
pull out a bigger knife and be that's not a knife,
this is a knife.
Speaker 7 (23:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Well, actually I trained with some guys from Ford Bragg
who are edge weapons guys back in the day, just
a little introductory stuff. I'm not you know Tommy Lee
Jones and The Hunted, which is a pretty cool movie
for all the knife fighting they do if you haven't
seen it, but anyway, but I did some introductory stuff
with them Clay and one thing they just said, They're like,
you have to understand if somebody has a knife and
you're you're you're bare handed, You're just trying to get
(23:31):
out alive, but you're going to get cut you're going
to get stabbed, and you know you're you're a You're
in a lot of trouble. If somebody has a knife
and they know what they're doing, you're gonna die like
you you're basically the disadvantage is much stronger than people.
Everyone sees these things in the movies. Were like they
catch someone's wrists when they're about to get stabbed, and
they go like, karate chop, karate chop. That's not how
it works. I've seen videos of teams swat teams in
(23:54):
a stack coming in and a guy has a knife
and he's able to stab. You know, they do this,
it's training, right, but they'll show video. He was able
to get like two or three karate strikes on these
guys before they could even shoot him. And that's and
so this is what people don't realize. Like a knife
is a far more lethal tool than most people understand.
And to stab somebody in the heart, that's not I
(24:14):
mean that is he went for effectively a kill shot
right off the bat.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
And you may have seen some of the data on
this many people stabbing someone with a knife. We talked
about this in the context of the Idaho murders right,
the allegation about the girls who were all sliced uf
and everything else. It is for many people a far
(24:41):
more violent, personal, deadly, and sociopathic in many ways way
to kill someone than the remote nature of a gun.
And I'll give you an example historically, Buck. You know,
in the Civil War, every musket by and large had
a bayonet, but actual hand to hand and bayonet fighting
(25:03):
was very rare in the war by and large because
it was seen as so much more violent and brutal
and nasty to be trying to stab someone with a
sharpened bayonet on the end of your rifle than to
stand and shoot at people from a distance. In other words,
this is a particularly violent choice that this seventeen year
(25:27):
old made, and for him to be being rewarded for it,
and for it to be largely ignored in the national
consciousness is I think just the sign of our inability
to distinguish good and evil.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Something else that I would just say, because this is
obviously already playing out so much in the press, so
it's not like they're holding back. There's not some big
reveal that's coming about facts. We don't know if there
was some relevant basis for the self defense claim like, oh,
I thought he said he had a gun and he
reached for it. Which there's nothing like that at all.
But if there was something like that, you would already know, yes,
(26:03):
because they would want that out there because they know
a jury pool is going to be formed, and they
would want you know, there is this kid was in
the wrong place, Anthony, he was in the wrong place,
and this kid, you know, it's sports. People get a
little you know, Clay, you know all about this. People
can get a little riled up about their sports teams
or whatever. And he's like, hey, you're in the wrong place.
(26:24):
They exchanged some words and then he says, well, he
like grabbed his backpack or something. I think that's my
understanding of how this went down, and someone grabbing your
backpack Again, the context matters. This isn't a dark alley
with two people. These are two people who are rival
high schools. There's parents, there's adults around, there's security there,
(26:45):
They're in broad daylight there in public. There is no
reasonable basis for believing that your life is in jeopardy
and you need to kill somebody with the knife that
you kept in your back I would also throw this
out There is it legal to have a knife on
school rounds like this.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
No, of course not. So he's got an illegal weapon? Everybody,
how about we how about why haven't you heard that more?
Why haven't you heard.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
More that Anthony Carmelo Anthony was carrying an illegal weapon?
You think you think that wouldn't come up if this
was a little bit different. I remember because some of
you called in about what about Rittenhouse? And we could
talk about that all day because I actually know uh
Richie McGinnis who was there and eye witnessed and had
to testify about it. And the guy that kind the
(27:28):
guy that Kyle Rittenhouse shot, attacked him and one of
them had a gun in his hand when he was shot. Okay,
so this is not even vaguely comparable situation. But the
Democrats were all saying, well, he took a gun and
maybe he crossed state lines with it. So it's like, well,
he's he was allowed to have a rifle in Wisconsin,
but if he took it from Michigan and crossed state
(27:49):
lines with it, maybe that. Because they were desperate to
make it seem like it was illegal for him to
have the gun, that was the whole game.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
And also they looked like he was crossing state lines
with a weapon to try to kill someone, even though
it was just a suburb and it's like he lived
ten minutes from the state line or whatever. For people
who live close to a state border, crossing state lines
is not actually that big of.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
A deal in many of your lives.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
This is what I mean, all of a sudden, they
became you know, legal formalists and like extremely detailed about
any possible violation when it came to Kyle rittenhouse. But
this kid's carrying a knife long enough to kill somebody.
That's also a thing. I mean, you really you know,
I mean I could get into this, but there's actually
a length of blade that is able to puncture places,
(28:34):
that can puncture and kill somebody. I mean, you can
get into some of the specifics of this. I'm sure
some of you from the military side have edged weapons training,
you know what I'm talking about. There's a length of blade.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
That makes it.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
You know, if you have a basically if you have
a two inch Swiss army knife, yeah, I mean, you
could stab somebody with it and you could do harm,
but it's very very hard to you know, to puncture
the sternum very very hard to get into the subclavial
artery and the you know, kind of the neck stern
oclido mastoid region. It's very hard to do that. Do
(29:03):
you have a knife that's long? And if it's actually
not hard to do that at all, and this kid
clearly did.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
And I just come back to if you truly were
worried about the situation, the minute you pull the knife out,
everybody's done right. Unless you are Jason Bourne. People are
not trying to disarm you without a weapon of their own.
That entire interaction would have been over the minute he
brandished the knife. If he truly felt threatened, everybody would
(29:31):
have been like, whoa Dudeah, all right.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
And then everyone walks away alive.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
And this kid maybe is you know, suspended or expelled
from school and goes before a judge and maybe does
sixty days in juvie and is told you ever do
something of this again, you're in big trouble. But you know, no,
stabbed him in the heart. Stabbed him in the heart.
You're gonna tell me he didn't know what he was doing.
Think about the mentality and also this thing too, the
try to say, oh, you know, he's a really good
(29:56):
kid too. I'm like, you know, guys, please, all right,
there's been there's been no sense of any no sense
of remorse Clay from anyone who has taken Carmelo Anthony's
side in this at all. No sense of sadness for
the loss of Austin Metcalf, no sense of oh my gosh,
(30:17):
what now. They're trying to say it's a tragedy on
both sides. Yeah, no, no, no, actually it's a tragedy
on one side. It's a criminal and a tragedy. It's
not the same thing. And I mentioned this, I should
have circled back to it. There will be wrongful death lawsuits.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I would imagine if this individual is convicted, or even
if he is not, the standard of liability is beyond like,
clearly this guy would be guilty culpable for the monetary
damages in a wrongful death lawsuit, which is what would
happen in a civil context. The standard of proof is
(30:52):
much lower. So yes, the family could theoretically seize back
this home, but I would suggest this violates the donation
terms to be buying a home instead of actually retaining
a warrior, which is what people were donating for.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Well, at this point, you know, I think the bigger
question will be does he does he take this all
the way to trial and does he think that he
can get a jury?
Speaker 3 (31:17):
You know?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Does the defense for Anthony think that they can get it?
All they needed Clay knows very well, better better than
most all you need is one person on that jury, right,
it just says, Nope, not happening, even if the rest
of them say, come on, it's obvious hung jury. And
then things get messy, you know, and then does the
state want to retry this? And you get into all
this stuff. It's not that hard and it looks like
(31:39):
they're gearing up for that, and I just the message
that this would send the country is terrible in all counts,
in all ways.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
It is really really bad.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
And so it would be even the This is what
I mean by this, Clay is even the people who
are clearly like rooting for for Carmelo Anthony in this
in this situation, it would be better for them too.
If he actually faces justice and has to you know,
and has to serve time for this.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
I mean that that is.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Actually better for everyone, every better for the country. But
we'll see if that ends up happening. Look, we were
talking a lot about self defense here, and you know,
I'm a dad now and one of the profound things
you have, and the dad's out there all know that.
None of the moms know this too. But you have
this little being and you would do anything to protect them,
right and you feel that way, you also want to
(32:32):
have the means, and that can involve force escalation. And
look at how important we're talking about a story where
there was no force escalation and you know somebody used
a weapon the wrong way. I want you to be
able to defend yourselves in the right way and have
non lethal options to keep yourself safe, but not have
to make that decision about lethality right away. And a
(32:57):
lot of people are just more comfortable with this and
they know that in so many situations it will be
more than sufficient. And this is where Saber comes in.
I think Saber products are fantastic. I'm actually giving my
mother in law who's visiting us, a bunch of Saber
products to take home with her because she feels like
she is more comfortable having those and using those. Yes,
I got a whole safe full of guns here, but
(33:18):
I've also got my Saber products and Carrie feels more
comfortable with Saber products. And if you're going to you
know a lot of places where you can't conceal kerry.
For example, you want to be able to have pepper spray.
Saber has the best pepper spray in the game. Their
pepper Projectile Launcher two. Clay and I have trained with
this thing out there.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
On the range.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
It is really well crafted and designed. It feels good
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(33:54):
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Speaker 4 (34:14):
Can count on and some laughs too.
Speaker 5 (34:16):
Clay Travis at Buck Sexton find them on the free
iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Welcome back in to Clay and Buck. I want to
take some of your calls and UH and get to
all of your thoughts on everything we talked about today.
Also on the self defense side of that quote self defense, obviously,
I don't agree with that claim at all. I think it's particle,
but got some thoughts on that. We'll take calls on it,
UH and we'll dive into it and talkbacks. We love
live calls, we love, but the talkback on the iHeart app.
(34:45):
Just go to the Clay en Buck page on the
iHeartRadio app and use the function that we press a
little microphone. And I also want to say thank you
to all of you who have downloaded and listened to
our friend David Rutherford's show on the Clay and Buck
podcast network. Rutt as I call him and his seal
friends call him.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
He is a great dude.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
He's a patriot, a veteran, former Navy seal, deployed combat.
The whole, the whole nine yards play. The numbers that
he is getting already from this audience fantastic. So you
guys have really taken to his show, and I appreciate that.
If you haven't, go check out the David Rutherford Show
and the Clay In Book Podcast network, and also a
great time to tell you about Crockett Coffee if I can.
(35:28):
We have a new exciting product coming out soon. I
know that's a bit of a tease because I can't
tell you what it is yet, but it's gonna be awesome,
something I think you're gonna love. But in the meantime,
Crockett is growing every month because of all of you.
Please go to crocket Coffee dot com a subscribe number.
Ten percent of our profits goes to Tunnel the Towers Foundation.
We've got fun events that are in the works as
well at some of these historical sites.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
That we will be telling you about.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
And if you use codebook, you still get a sign
copy of American playbook Clay.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Are you moving soon? Because what's going to happen to
all those books? We got to get rid of any
books you have on him?
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Well, I think we're First of all, I have no idea.
My wife is in charge of the new house that's
being built, so but I believe we are going to
be in a new house in October and it's going
to be pretty awesome. I'm looking forward to it. It's
been being built for a while. But I know this
because my wife has people already starting to pack up
(36:22):
some things, and some of you may have seen this
on Instagram. All of her shoes were laid out in
our bathroom yesterday and my jaw dropped at how many
shoes she had, ninety pairs, and a lot of you
reacted on Instagram. Now, she says she doesn't throw shoes away,
so she's had them for a while. But the amount
of women that said, oh, I've got way more shoes
(36:44):
than that blew my mind.
Welcome back in Clay Travis buck Sexton Show. Appreciate all
of you hanging out with us as we are rolling
through the program here. We've been breaking down a lot
of different stories out there. Buck back, new dad, baby
in the house. Very exciting. We continue to talk about that.
Appreciate all the fabulous responses we've gotten so far. So Buck,
(00:22):
I want to hit this story because I think it's
important and I think it ties in with a little
bit about what we were discussing, which is the inability
to distinguish between good and evil. And in particular, this
story is from Texas, north of Dallas, I believe, Frisco,
Texas and for those of you to not hear about
(00:43):
this story, a seventeen year old Austin Metcalf was stabbed
to death at a track meet by another seventeen year
old named Carmelo Anthony. Anthony has been arrested. He's been
charged with the crime. He admits that he did it.
It appears that his argument is going to be predicated
(01:03):
on some form of self defense. In other words, there
is no disputing that he had a knife and that
he stabbed this kid in the heart and killed him.
The seventeen year old who was stabbed to death. Austin
Metcalf died in his twin brother's arms. This is an
awful story. It has received a substantial amount of attention.
(01:28):
In the wake of the stabbing. The family of Carmelo
Anthony set up a legal defense fund and it was
hosted by a individual company and that fund has raised
over four hundred thousand dollars. Now, to be fair, the
(01:51):
company that is allowing this fund to be raised is
the same one. Their position is, hey, you should be
able to raise money for your legal defense. We're not
going to make decisions based on what you're charged with,
what your race is. They are going to allow it
to be set up no matter what. So this is
not GoFundMe. This is another one. But he's raised over
(02:13):
four hundred thousand dollars. They just lowered his bail from
one million dollars to two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
Since you only have to pay ten percent UH usually
in order to get bail. That's just twenty five k
of the four hundred thousand plus that has been raised
(02:36):
for him. The family bought a new house. Buck The
family has reportedly bought a new house with the four
hundred thousand dollars that has been raised for this seventeen
year old who is accused of in cold blood murdering
another seventeen year old at a track meet, stabbed him
(02:59):
in the heart, killed him. What does it say for
society today? I think you can tie this in with
the Luigi Mangioni case. I think you can tie it
in with what happened on October seventh. That someone can
stab teenage boys, one can stab the other one in
the heart, and over four hundred thousand dollars can be raised,
(03:23):
the bail can be reduced, which seems crazy to me.
He's only having to pay twenty five thousand dollars and
they're buying a house with all of the hundreds of
thousands of dollars in donations that has rolled in the family.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Well, here's how here's how I would would want to
approach this clay. There are almost twenty thousand murders and
non negligent manslaughter cases in the United States every year. Right,
depends on the year, but let's call it roughly twenty
thousand murders a year in this country.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
That's right, one kind or another.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Why is this murder getting or alleged murder.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Right, this is legally what we're supposed to.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Say, But why is this incident and the facts aren't
in dispute. It's not like he's saying I didn't stab it.
He stabbed him to death. Everyone saw it is. So
why are there people who are donating money for this
legal defense who have never donated money for anyone else's
legal defense? Why is there this ground swell of people
(04:26):
who want to assist the Carmelo Anthony family here, not
the metcalf family, notably, not the family that just lost
their boy for absolutely no reason whatsoever in the most
vicious and violent way. They don't care about that family.
They care about the Carmelo Anthony family. I think that
(04:48):
we have to ask this question, and I don't think
that there's a a single answer. I think there are
there are many different answers. I think that there are
people who like to believe different narrati. I think they're
people who like to feel like they are advancing the
cause of justice by assisting those who are oppressed.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
It's one way of saying it.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Because this is the other thing I'm seeing people who
are saying it's self defense. This is the line that
you are hearing everywhere, and unfortunately, that is an outrageous
claim under these circumstances. Yes, because what they're doing is
they're saying, well, well, Carmelo Anthony had a credible fear
(05:33):
or a reasonable fear of his own safety and or life,
and so he reacted in this way. If this is
self defense, anybody who has a crossword with anybody in
any high school anywhere across the country can murder that
person in cold blood in front of their family members
at a crowded event and get away with it. True,
And anyone who is donating money to this individual is
(05:56):
really donating money to the most talk and cynical and
divisive aspects of American politics. I think that they are
and society. I think that they are really adding fuel
onto the fire here of a lot of discontent and resentment.
(06:18):
And let's just be honest about this. They've decided that
because this kid is black, they are going to back
him to the greatest degree possible while he estab this
white kid to death. And you want to ask, why
is that? Are they trying to Is this supposed to
be some kind of a reckoning moment? Are they trying
to force some kind of oj situation here where it
(06:41):
doesn't matter what he did. I mean, what exactly is
the point that they make with all this monetary and
public support of this seventeen year old who stabbed another
kid to death in front of his dad.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
I'll go time to kill for a second time today.
But can you imagine the reaction if a white kid
stabbed a black kid to death that attract me, gets
his bail reduced from one million to two hundred and
fifty thousand dollars, raises over four hundred thousand dollars, and
buy the family buys a new house with it. It
(07:15):
would be the very definition of white privilege everybody.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
People would be saying that it's a resurgence of the
Ku Klux Klan or something. I mean, they would be
saying it's a white supremacist ground swell, that's what the meat,
and I don't just mean totally.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Media would be saying with that, there would be protest marches.
It would be everywhere, And I don't begrudge. Producer Ali says, well,
how in the world are you going to defend? Argue
self defense? He has no other defense. So again I've
been a criminal defense attorney. I don't begrudge the argument
of self defense when you admit that you stab somebody
(07:50):
in the heart with a knife.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Hold on, there is that applies to that applies to
the lawyer. I'm talking about people that are buying this,
and so I'm going to give money to to help
this this family. Well, why does Carmelo Anthony's family does
Carmelo Anthony's family should be, you know, begging for forgiveness
and saying we're sorry that our son murdered somebody for
no reason.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yes, he has no defense, So the only defense he
has is self defense. So yes, that's the legal that
makes sense, that's the old that's the warrior's job. That's
the only defense he has. But why would anybody else
buy into that?
Speaker 4 (08:27):
And how in the world do you reward the family
who has failed.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Look, if you're seventeen year old, white, black, Asian or
Hispanic stabs another kid to death at a school event,
you failed as a parent in some way. I'm sorry
you did. So the idea that the parent would be rewarded.
You can't tell me that the kid took a knife
(08:52):
to school. If you are taking knives to school, this
goes for anybody out there, your kids, you're grandkids. Something's wrong.
I told my kids this recently. I said, hey, I
understand that people have guns. If you're a high school
kid and you find yourself out with other high school
(09:12):
kids who have loaded weapons, you made a very poor decision.
You need to extricate yourself from that situation. If you
find yourself taking knives that could be used to stab
someone to death to school, you have failed in some
way as a parent to allow that situation to occur.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
And so I'm really I agree with a lot of course,
but who's donating to this?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Like the really really thing? What is the mentality? Why
are you giving money to this?
Speaker 1 (09:44):
He has been assigned for one hundred to give thousand dollars,
not even just donating, donating tons of money?
Speaker 3 (09:50):
This is what I mean. Who is giving money for this?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
And and what is the mentality behind that? You would
you would have to to truly believe this was a
self defense case. You would have to be such a
moron that you can't spell self defense. There's just no way,
It's not possible.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I think it's identity politics. I think it's purely Hey,
this is a black kid, who killed a white kid.
I would bet if you go and look at the donors,
I think a large majority of them would be white
liberals who are whose brains are broken. And I think
black people who are buying into the idea that because
this black kid stabbed a white kid, that he is
(10:32):
somehow the victim and he's being cashiered by the media
and attacked unfairly. So I think if you went and looked,
I think this is the other thing.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Buck.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I think this would be ninety five percent Kamala Harris
voters right, if they voted at all. Definitely Democrats who
aren't don'tating the money one hundred percent. But I mean
when you think about again, I just the mentality of somebody,
So is it for some of these individuals, it's you know,
there's like guilty white liberal guilty conscience, White liberals who think,
(11:02):
I'm just going to help this young black kid because
he made like a mistake and I don't want his
whole life, so they're going to write a check even
though he murdered somebody or allegedly murdered somebody, Right, And
then I guess you have members of the black community
who are just deciding, well, he's black, so I'm going
to stand with him in this. But to that, I
just want to say, why would you stand with this
(11:22):
black murderer and.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Not any of the others that you like?
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Well, why are you picking this because it's a high
level case where he killed a white guy?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Like, what message are people trying to send?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
I think the message of racial division? Here's another question,
and I think answer that makes this story.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Again.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
I hate that this is a story, but I do
think it is a snapshot of the world in which
we live for some people. If he had stabbed a
black kid, which is far more common, right, most victims
of racial violence are the same race. If he had
stabbed a black kid to death, same exact situation, with
the kids black, not one person, by and large would
(12:03):
have heard about it. Nobody would have raised money for him.
I doubt they would have dropped his veil. I bet
that it would have barely made local Dallas news. It
certainly wouldn't have become a national story. White kids' lives,
in the eyes of the media, are worthy of cover
when they are taken violently in a situation like this.
(12:24):
It's happened so regularly to young black men that If
a young black man kills another young black man, it's
barely a blip on the national radar. The only reason
this is a story is because there was race involved.
If it's black on black crime, not a story at all.
That's the other part of this. And nobody donates to
(12:45):
the guy of the four hundred thousand dollars buck. I
bet he wouldn't have been able to raise four thousand
dollars if he had stabbed another black kid to death.
Think about the poison that will be injected into the
veins of the American populous if this kid is either
hung jury or gets off, which you can't discount as
(13:07):
a possibility. All you need to know one jury. Don't
know what the jury jury is going.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
It just needs one right And and now we've seen
is there's a movement to make this kid into some
kind of a victim. The facts are not in dispute. Okay,
you don't at an event, at a high school event
where there's people everywhere, you don't get to just pull
a knife out and stab somebody in. By the way,
I've said this to friends of mine too, Clay, because
this does matter. You know, you can pull a knife
(13:34):
out and it's a bad thing to do, obviously, But
if you pull a knife out, you know, you slash
somebody on the arm, you know, you you you kind
of you know, you go like hey, buddy, like the
next one.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
For most people, if you pull a knife out, it
ends the entire compensation without you even having to wave
it anywhere.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
People are like, dude, to stab somebody.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
In the heart is to go for intentional legal force
right away when you're under no threat. It is vicious,
it is barbarous. And this kid should spend the rest
of his life in prison. I mean, I know the
Supreme Courts that he's not eighteen, so they won't. You know,
you can't go beyond life in prison. But the fact
(14:14):
that people are raising money for this is it's just
it's just appalling.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
How about dropping the bail.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Why isn't bail getting dropped from a million two hundred
and fifty? Oh, you have to pay his twenty five
k to get out of prison after you stab somebody
to death.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
That seems wild to me.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
How do you think of you're if you're a J
six defendant who walked into the Capitol building for like
three minutes and took a selfie and you were denied
a trial for over a year while you sat in
solitary confinement in DC. How would you look at this?
I know it's all the federal versus state, Yeah, but
it's all our justice system. Does that seem fair to anybody? Look,
(14:53):
we're having this conversation and I think it's an important
moment to just remind all of you. Politics when it
comes to self defense a big thing. And if you
have to defend yourself, especially in a state like California
or New York, you need someone to have your back
when you do lawful self defense. And this is where
us Concealed Carey Association USCCA comes in. They have over
(15:17):
eight hundred and sixty thousand responsible gun owners as members
across the country. I'm one myself. The USCCA mission is simple,
protect and prepare Americans like you through training, education and
self defense liability insurance. If you're going to carry, if
you're going to own a firearm, you need to have this.
(15:37):
You need to have this. The bills that people end
up running up for lawful self defense, mind you, lawful
self defense is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars
easily in a case go ask any lawyer if you're
going to defend yourself against a felony, you know, a
felony charge for defending yourself, it's really important you have USCCA.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
I have it.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Clay has a lawyer. He knows it's important for you
to have this. For anybody involved with carrying or owning firearms.
And you might have seen this. There was a guy
who's a former special operations guy just attacked by some
maniac with a brick in New York City. He was
waiting for his daughter outside of a yoga studio. Maniac
attacks him with a brick and he you know, he
ended up putting that guy in the hospital. You don't
(16:20):
think he's gonna get sued. The maniac is probably going
to sue him, just so you know. I mean, this
is the way it works in liberal lunatic places like
New York and California, but anywhere across the country you
could have a soros DA.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
You need USCCA.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Download the free Concealed Carrie and Family Defense Guide at
this website USCCA dot com, slash buck. That's how you
get started again. Download the Free Concealed Carrie and Family
Defense Guide at USCCA dot com slash Buck. You can
also find this information on Clayandbuck dot com under our
sponsor tag.
Speaker 5 (16:54):
Want to be in to know when you're on the
go Team forty seven podcast on highlights from the week
Sundays at noon Eastern in the Clay and Buck podcast scheme.
Find it on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
All right, welcome back to play and Boff. Let's get
to a quick talkback. We'll take more talkbacks and calls
coming after the breaker in a moment. But this is
JJ Richard from Spokane, Washington. On this case. We just
discussed players.
Speaker 6 (17:22):
Hey Clay, Hey Buck Richard from Spokane, longtime listener. Congratulations Buck.
I think that the family of the team that was
stabbed by Carmelo Anthony on a file a lawsuit and
never let them enjoy that house, just like they did
a civil lawsuit and just get all that money.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, it's a great point. I'll talk about that when
we come back. I would be stunned if there isn't
a wrongful death lawsuit filed at some point in the meantime,
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Speaker 4 (18:27):
As ten minutes. That's pound two five zero.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Say Clay and Buck for your free Samsung Galaxy. With
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two five zero. That's pound two five zero say Clay
and Buck. Welcome back in Clay, Travis Buck Sexton show.
(18:53):
A lot of people rolling in with reactions to the story,
and again, I think from down in ten Exus, the
stabbing family buying a brand new home. Let me tell
you something, Buck, four hundred thousand dollars get you a
really good home in many parts of Texas. That is
(19:14):
not even just a a a that's a really good
home that they're buying off legal defense fund donations. Now,
I question whether that's legal because if you're raising money
under the auspices of, hey, we're going to retain really
good lawyers who could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars
(19:35):
criminal defense attorneys could, and then you use the money
that you ostensibly were raising for legal defense to buy
a home, that seems like a misappropriation of the funds
that were raised in the way that they're being used.
Paying the bail money that would be somewhat understandable because
it is connected. The fact that the bail was dropped
(19:55):
from one million to two hundred and fifty thousand dollars
is crazy to me. The fact that you can kill
someone and get out of prison for twenty five k
blows my mind. I don't know the standard dollars that
are applied here, again for people who don't know, usually
you have to put forward about ten percent of the
bail money and the other parts covered. But the fact
(20:16):
that that could end up in this situation. Alan Dershowitz
Cut twenty nine is saying what we just said, which
is and It's interesting because Alan Dershowitz was one of
the defense attorneys for OJ Simpson. But he is saying, Hey,
if the race dynamics here were reversed, everybody would be
talking about it in a totally different way. Here's cut
twenty nine.
Speaker 7 (20:36):
This is all about who the jury is. This will
all be determined by the jury. If the racial factors
were reversed, if a white man had killed an unarmed
black man, everybody would be on the reverse side of this.
We live in a society where everything is judged by race.
You know, the Bible says to judges and prosecutors, don't
(20:57):
recognize people, just distract justice. We're way, way, way beyond that.
If the racial elements were reversed there virtually all the
people who are calling for him to be acquitted would
be calling for him to be a quick convicted, and
vice versa. Let's not kit ourselves. We live in a
race conscious society. And jury selection, which of course you're
(21:18):
the guest, is so brilliant that and did so well
in the Zimmament cases, terming the outcome of this case
without a doubt.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
So he's saying the jury selection, as we kind of hinted,
at Buck would determine. Now, I don't know what the
makeup of jury's in Frisco, Texas typically is, but again,
I'm just focused on what we know has happened here.
Stabbing definitely occurred. Only defense is self defense That seems
very weak to me from a legal perspective. And the
family has now bought a new multi hundred thousand dollars
(21:47):
home and he's only had to pay twenty five thousand
dollars to get out of prison. For this, he is
profiting and his family is directly profiting off of murdering
in cold blood a completely innocent seventeen year old to
attract me. And I'll take some of the calls. Some
people are saying, well, this could be self defense. I'm sorry,
Actually it's not. It cannot be self defense because there's
(22:09):
no reasonable way to explain how a verbal dispute over
seats could turn into I have to pull a knife
out of my bag and stab you in the heart
with it. If that now is the standard of self defense,
anybody who doesn't like anyone else can basically get away
with killing them and say I don't like what he
(22:30):
said to me. I was scared, I feared from my
life because I don't like the look in his eyes.
I also think the point you raised is a really
good one. You should not have a knife that is
capable of murdering somebody with ever at school or at
school related events. But for ninety nine point nine percent
(22:52):
of people in America, if somebody pulls a knife, the
dispute is over.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
There are not very many people who are going if
you are unarmed and someone holds a knife to you,
most of us are not gonna be Crocodile Dundee and
pull out a bigger knife and be that's not a knife,
this is a knife.
Speaker 7 (23:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Well, actually I trained with some guys from Ford Bragg
who are edge weapons guys back in the day, just
a little introductory stuff. I'm not you know Tommy Lee
Jones and The Hunted, which is a pretty cool movie
for all the knife fighting they do if you haven't
seen it, but anyway, but I did some introductory stuff
with them Clay and one thing they just said, They're like,
you have to understand if somebody has a knife and
you're you're you're bare handed, You're just trying to get
(23:31):
out alive, but you're going to get cut you're going
to get stabbed, and you know you're you're a You're
in a lot of trouble. If somebody has a knife
and they know what they're doing, you're gonna die like
you you're basically the disadvantage is much stronger than people.
Everyone sees these things in the movies. Were like they
catch someone's wrists when they're about to get stabbed, and
they go like, karate chop, karate chop. That's not how
it works. I've seen videos of teams swat teams in
(23:54):
a stack coming in and a guy has a knife
and he's able to stab. You know, they do this,
it's training, right, but they'll show video. He was able
to get like two or three karate strikes on these
guys before they could even shoot him. And that's and
so this is what people don't realize. Like a knife
is a far more lethal tool than most people understand.
And to stab somebody in the heart, that's not I
(24:14):
mean that is he went for effectively a kill shot
right off the bat.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
And you may have seen some of the data on
this many people stabbing someone with a knife. We talked
about this in the context of the Idaho murders right,
the allegation about the girls who were all sliced uf
and everything else. It is for many people a far
(24:41):
more violent, personal, deadly, and sociopathic in many ways way
to kill someone than the remote nature of a gun.
And I'll give you an example historically, Buck. You know,
in the Civil War, every musket by and large had
a bayonet, but actual hand to hand and bayonet fighting
(25:03):
was very rare in the war by and large because
it was seen as so much more violent and brutal
and nasty to be trying to stab someone with a
sharpened bayonet on the end of your rifle than to
stand and shoot at people from a distance. In other words,
this is a particularly violent choice that this seventeen year
(25:27):
old made, and for him to be being rewarded for it,
and for it to be largely ignored in the national
consciousness is I think just the sign of our inability
to distinguish good and evil.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Something else that I would just say, because this is
obviously already playing out so much in the press, so
it's not like they're holding back. There's not some big
reveal that's coming about facts. We don't know if there
was some relevant basis for the self defense claim like, oh,
I thought he said he had a gun and he
reached for it. Which there's nothing like that at all.
But if there was something like that, you would already know, yes,
(26:03):
because they would want that out there because they know
a jury pool is going to be formed, and they
would want you know, there is this kid was in
the wrong place, Anthony, he was in the wrong place,
and this kid, you know, it's sports. People get a
little you know, Clay, you know all about this. People
can get a little riled up about their sports teams
or whatever. And he's like, hey, you're in the wrong place.
(26:24):
They exchanged some words and then he says, well, he
like grabbed his backpack or something. I think that's my
understanding of how this went down, and someone grabbing your
backpack Again, the context matters. This isn't a dark alley
with two people. These are two people who are rival
high schools. There's parents, there's adults around, there's security there,
(26:45):
They're in broad daylight there in public. There is no
reasonable basis for believing that your life is in jeopardy
and you need to kill somebody with the knife that
you kept in your back I would also throw this
out There is it legal to have a knife on
school rounds like this.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
No, of course not. So he's got an illegal weapon? Everybody,
how about we how about why haven't you heard that more?
Why haven't you heard.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
More that Anthony Carmelo Anthony was carrying an illegal weapon?
You think you think that wouldn't come up if this
was a little bit different. I remember because some of
you called in about what about Rittenhouse? And we could
talk about that all day because I actually know uh
Richie McGinnis who was there and eye witnessed and had
to testify about it. And the guy that kind the
(27:28):
guy that Kyle Rittenhouse shot, attacked him and one of
them had a gun in his hand when he was shot. Okay,
so this is not even vaguely comparable situation. But the
Democrats were all saying, well, he took a gun and
maybe he crossed state lines with it. So it's like, well,
he's he was allowed to have a rifle in Wisconsin,
but if he took it from Michigan and crossed state
(27:49):
lines with it, maybe that. Because they were desperate to
make it seem like it was illegal for him to
have the gun, that was the whole game.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
And also they looked like he was crossing state lines
with a weapon to try to kill someone, even though
it was just a suburb and it's like he lived
ten minutes from the state line or whatever. For people
who live close to a state border, crossing state lines
is not actually that big of.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
A deal in many of your lives.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
This is what I mean, all of a sudden, they
became you know, legal formalists and like extremely detailed about
any possible violation when it came to Kyle rittenhouse. But
this kid's carrying a knife long enough to kill somebody.
That's also a thing. I mean, you really you know,
I mean I could get into this, but there's actually
a length of blade that is able to puncture places,
(28:34):
that can puncture and kill somebody. I mean, you can
get into some of the specifics of this. I'm sure
some of you from the military side have edged weapons training,
you know what I'm talking about. There's a length of blade.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
That makes it.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
You know, if you have a basically if you have
a two inch Swiss army knife, yeah, I mean, you
could stab somebody with it and you could do harm,
but it's very very hard to you know, to puncture
the sternum very very hard to get into the subclavial
artery and the you know, kind of the neck stern
oclido mastoid region. It's very hard to do that. Do
(29:03):
you have a knife that's long? And if it's actually
not hard to do that at all, and this kid
clearly did.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
And I just come back to if you truly were
worried about the situation, the minute you pull the knife out,
everybody's done right. Unless you are Jason Bourne. People are
not trying to disarm you without a weapon of their own.
That entire interaction would have been over the minute he
brandished the knife. If he truly felt threatened, everybody would
(29:31):
have been like, whoa Dudeah, all right.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
And then everyone walks away alive.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
And this kid maybe is you know, suspended or expelled
from school and goes before a judge and maybe does
sixty days in juvie and is told you ever do
something of this again, you're in big trouble. But you know, no,
stabbed him in the heart. Stabbed him in the heart.
You're gonna tell me he didn't know what he was doing.
Think about the mentality and also this thing too, the
try to say, oh, you know, he's a really good
(29:56):
kid too. I'm like, you know, guys, please, all right,
there's been there's been no sense of any no sense
of remorse Clay from anyone who has taken Carmelo Anthony's
side in this at all. No sense of sadness for
the loss of Austin Metcalf, no sense of oh my gosh,
(30:17):
what now. They're trying to say it's a tragedy on
both sides. Yeah, no, no, no, actually it's a tragedy
on one side. It's a criminal and a tragedy. It's
not the same thing. And I mentioned this, I should
have circled back to it. There will be wrongful death lawsuits.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
I would imagine if this individual is convicted, or even
if he is not, the standard of liability is beyond like,
clearly this guy would be guilty culpable for the monetary
damages in a wrongful death lawsuit, which is what would
happen in a civil context. The standard of proof is
(30:52):
much lower. So yes, the family could theoretically seize back
this home, but I would suggest this violates the donation
terms to be buying a home instead of actually retaining
a warrior, which is what people were donating for.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Well, at this point, you know, I think the bigger
question will be does he does he take this all
the way to trial and does he think that he
can get a jury?
Speaker 3 (31:17):
You know?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Does the defense for Anthony think that they can get it?
All they needed Clay knows very well, better better than
most all you need is one person on that jury, right,
it just says, Nope, not happening, even if the rest
of them say, come on, it's obvious hung jury. And
then things get messy, you know, and then does the
state want to retry this? And you get into all
this stuff. It's not that hard and it looks like
(31:39):
they're gearing up for that, and I just the message
that this would send the country is terrible in all counts,
in all ways.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
It is really really bad.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
And so it would be even the This is what
I mean by this, Clay is even the people who
are clearly like rooting for for Carmelo Anthony in this
in this situation, it would be better for them too.
If he actually faces justice and has to you know,
and has to serve time for this.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
I mean that that is.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Actually better for everyone, every better for the country. But
we'll see if that ends up happening. Look, we were
talking a lot about self defense here, and you know,
I'm a dad now and one of the profound things
you have, and the dad's out there all know that.
None of the moms know this too. But you have
this little being and you would do anything to protect them,
right and you feel that way, you also want to
(32:32):
have the means, and that can involve force escalation. And
look at how important we're talking about a story where
there was no force escalation and you know somebody used
a weapon the wrong way. I want you to be
able to defend yourselves in the right way and have
non lethal options to keep yourself safe, but not have
to make that decision about lethality right away. And a
(32:57):
lot of people are just more comfortable with this and
they know that in so many situations it will be
more than sufficient. And this is where Saber comes in.
I think Saber products are fantastic. I'm actually giving my
mother in law who's visiting us, a bunch of Saber
products to take home with her because she feels like
she is more comfortable having those and using those. Yes,
I got a whole safe full of guns here, but
(33:18):
I've also got my Saber products and Carrie feels more
comfortable with Saber products. And if you're going to you
know a lot of places where you can't conceal kerry.
For example, you want to be able to have pepper spray.
Saber has the best pepper spray in the game. Their
pepper Projectile Launcher two. Clay and I have trained with
this thing out there.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
On the range.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
It is really well crafted and designed. It feels good
on your hands, easy to operate, and it fires a
six foot cloud upon impact of irritant. That's just going
to stop anybody who's creating a menace and a threat
to you and your family. Find dozens of other Saber products,
so many I can't even get them all here, but
(33:54):
great home defense and self defense products non lethal at
Saber radio dot com. Sabre radio dot com say fifteen
percent on that website today. That's s A B R
E Radio dot com. Or call eight four four a
two four safe. That's eight four four eight two four
safe news you.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Can count on and some laughs too.
Speaker 5 (34:16):
Clay Travis at Buck Sexton find them on the free
iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
Welcome back in to Clay and Buck. I want to
take some of your calls and UH and get to
all of your thoughts on everything we talked about today.
Also on the self defense side of that quote self defense, obviously,
I don't agree with that claim at all. I think it's particle,
but got some thoughts on that. We'll take calls on it,
UH and we'll dive into it and talkbacks. We love
live calls, we love, but the talkback on the iHeart app.
(34:45):
Just go to the Clay en Buck page on the
iHeartRadio app and use the function that we press a
little microphone. And I also want to say thank you
to all of you who have downloaded and listened to
our friend David Rutherford's show on the Clay and Buck
podcast network. Rutt as I call him and his seal
friends call him.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
He is a great dude.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
He's a patriot, a veteran, former Navy seal, deployed combat.
The whole, the whole nine yards play. The numbers that
he is getting already from this audience fantastic. So you
guys have really taken to his show, and I appreciate that.
If you haven't, go check out the David Rutherford Show
and the Clay In Book Podcast network, and also a
great time to tell you about Crockett Coffee if I can.
(35:28):
We have a new exciting product coming out soon. I
know that's a bit of a tease because I can't
tell you what it is yet, but it's gonna be awesome,
something I think you're gonna love. But in the meantime,
Crockett is growing every month because of all of you.
Please go to crocket Coffee dot com a subscribe number.
Ten percent of our profits goes to Tunnel the Towers Foundation.
We've got fun events that are in the works as
well at some of these historical sites.
Speaker 3 (35:49):
That we will be telling you about.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
And if you use codebook, you still get a sign
copy of American playbook Clay.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Are you moving soon? Because what's going to happen to
all those books? We got to get rid of any
books you have on him?
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Well, I think we're First of all, I have no idea.
My wife is in charge of the new house that's
being built, so but I believe we are going to
be in a new house in October and it's going
to be pretty awesome. I'm looking forward to it. It's
been being built for a while. But I know this
because my wife has people already starting to pack up
(36:22):
some things, and some of you may have seen this
on Instagram. All of her shoes were laid out in
our bathroom yesterday and my jaw dropped at how many
shoes she had, ninety pairs, and a lot of you
reacted on Instagram. Now, she says she doesn't throw shoes away,
so she's had them for a while. But the amount
of women that said, oh, I've got way more shoes
(36:44):
than that blew my mind.
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